quote:

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Originally posted by capra:
The Abusir mummies come from the vicinity of Faiyum, and mostly rather close to the Faiyum mummy portraits in time as well. So chances are good they mostly looked like the Faiyum mummy portraits, which would be consistent with their genetic profile.

The "European" thing is sensationalist crap, they aren't.

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But why the defeatist attitude among the scholars on this forum as if they believe 100% on the data interpretation. Europeans and Americans have cooked DNA and archeological data before and this is no exception.
 

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Posted by capra (Member # 22737) on :
 
Perhaps they are considering the possibility that they were wrong about something.
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 



.

The problem with Coconuts/Negroes (people who are brown on the outside, but white inside) is that they don’t understand how to analyze data and form a conclusion. As a result, when they read a paper they accept what is written at face value without looking critically at the data and making their own interpretation.

First of all, Afro-American scholars have accepted that the Egyptians were Black/African people for the past 200 years, i.e., Carter G. Woodson, W.E.B. DuBois, and J.A. Rogers, and the Senegalese scholar Anta Diop ; but, Negro Apologist : Gates, Kittles and etc, spend their time parroting the status quo line that the Egyptians were a mixed race. This same group attempt to make it appear that the Fulani, Somalis and Ethiopians are black skinned whites, because of their facial features. This is stupid, because man originated in Africa, so the physical features of these populations are African features.

The article by Schuenemann et al, 2017 on the Abusir mummies is basically a discussion of the data that support a Greco-Roman origin for Egypt. But the data on the mummies dating between 992-749 BC, can offers us keen insight into haplogroups carried by Egyptians during this time.

The genomic data from this period is important because the people of Abusir at this time would have been primarily Egyptian. As a result, the mtDNA carried by the Egyptians confirms the reality that the so-called Eurasian haplogroups are nothing more than African haplogroups.

In Schuenemann et al, 2017, there were 100 mummies in the study. A total of 27 mummies were dated between 992-749BC. In Figure 1, you can see the clades carried by these Egyptians. Below are the frequencies of the haplogroups among Egyptians at this time:

• Haplogroup Frequency
  U 18.5
  T 22.2
  J 18.5
  X 0.0675
  M1a 0.0675
  H 0.0675
  I 0.0675
  HV 0.037
  RO 0.037
  K 0.037
  N 0.037

quote:

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The genomic data from this period is important because the people of Abusir at this time would have been primarily Egyptian.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Oshun:

quote:

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The genomic data from this period is important because the people of Abusir at this time would have been primarily Egyptian.

---

How do you know that? We've already discussed at length that the author admit to large scale migrations in northern Egypt. And why would this genetic data prove an African origin when those hapologroups are found older outside of Africa?

In my opinion... Afrocentrism is in for one hell of a ride trying to claim northern Egypt, which showed signs of cultural influences by Asiatics in the predynastic. I think that the kingdoms that made the dynastic era were culturally African and probably black, but I don't think everyone (especially in northern Egypt) would be considered black today, no.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Oshun:

quote:

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The genomic data from this period is important because the people of Abusir at this time would have been primarily Egyptian.

---

How do you know that? We've already discussed at length that the author admit to large scale migrations in northern Egypt. And why would this genetic data prove an African origin when those hapologroups are found older outside of Africa?

In my opinion... Afrocentrism is in for one hell of a ride trying to claim northern Egypt, which showed signs of cultural influences by Asiatics in the predynastic. I think that the kingdoms that made the dynastic era were culturally African and probably black, but I don't think everyone (especially in northern Egypt) would be considered black today, no.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

quote:

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Originally posted by Oshun:

quote:

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The genomic data from this period is important because the people of Abusir at this time would have been primarily Egyptian.

---

How do you know that? We've already discussed at length that the author admit to large scale migrations in northern Egypt. And why would this genetic data prove an African origin when those hapologroups are found older outside of Africa?

In my opinion... Afrocentrism is in for one hell of a ride trying to claim northern Egypt, which showed signs of cultural influences by Asiatics in the predynastic. I think that the kingdoms that made the dynastic era were culturally African and probably black, but I don't think everyone (especially in northern Egypt) would be considered black today, no.

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What Asiatics are you talking about. The Elamites, Sumerians, Hattians (Kaska), Hurrian-Mitannis all claimed they were Kushites. Kushites came from Africa

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If Kushites had that DNA, that'd mean they are backmigrants. And where'd those groups say they were from the Kushites.
 

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Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
What about this Guy? Ramses II



I dont see curly hair, huge broad nose, large lips here.

Btw. Ancient egyptians wore wigs. So Hair as represented on sculptures is not a proof for a phenotype.


 

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Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 

 

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Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
 
Rameses II post dates the hyksos periods. So I cannot say that it'd be extremely shocking if he had at least SOME Near Eastern ancestors, yes. I know that many Afrocentrics want to insist that non black Egyptians didn't contribute to Egypt but I am not of this view. I do however think that it's a stretch to suggest the non black northerners, and their descendants that trickled south made dynastic Egypt as well as the dynastic culture that would span thousands of years. The irony is that you'll eyeball the mummy and make a claim on his race, but ignore research that suggests that some stereotypically "Negroid" features were in the people that that would make Egypt.
 

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Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
@oshun
Ahaaa. OK.
Does your statement also apply to the other direction?
I mean afrocentrist claims that the original greeks and Romans were black? Instead of black Immigrants into white greek and roman culture?
Just Like today in Europe, where you have hundreds of thousands of black Immigrants. Sure they are portrayed in todays art, but they are not europeans. Maybe in 1000 years some afrocentrists will claim, that 2018 Europe was a black continent, Just because few Blacks are today present in contemporaty art.
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oshun:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oshun:

quote:

---

The genomic data from this period is important because the people of Abusir at this time would have been primarily Egyptian.

---

How do you know that? We've already discussed at length that the author admit to large scale migrations in northern Egypt. And why would this genetic data prove an African origin when those hapologroups are found older outside of Africa?

In my opinion... Afrocentrism is in for one hell of a ride trying to claim northern Egypt, which showed signs of cultural influences by Asiatics in the predynastic. I think that the kingdoms that made the dynastic era were culturally African and probably black, but I don't think everyone (especially in northern Egypt) would be considered black today, no.

---

What Asiatics are you talking about. The Elamites, Sumerians, Hattians (Kaska), Hurrian-Mitannis all claimed they were Kushites. Kushites came from Africa

---

If Kushites had that DNA, that'd mean they are backmigrants. And where'd those groups say they were from the Kushites.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oshun:

quote:

---

The genomic data from this period is important because the people of Abusir at this time would have been primarily Egyptian.

---

How do you know that? We've already discussed at length that the author admit to large scale migrations in northern Egypt. And why would this genetic data prove an African origin when those hapologroups are found older outside of Africa?

In my opinion... Afrocentrism is in for one hell of a ride trying to claim northern Egypt, which showed signs of cultural influences by Asiatics in the predynastic. I think that the kingdoms that made the dynastic era were culturally African and probably black, but I don't think everyone (especially in northern Egypt) would be considered black today, no.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
@oshun
Ahaaa. OK.
Does your statement also apply to the other direction?
I mean afrocentrist claims that the original greeks and Romans were black? Instead of black Immigrants into white greek and roman culture?
Just Like today in Europe, where you have hundreds of thousands of black Immigrants. Sure they are portrayed in todays art, but they are not europeans. Maybe in 1000 years some afrocentrists will claim, that 2018 Europe was a black continent, Just because few Blacks are today present in contemporaty art.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
The Abusir mummies come from the vicinity of Faiyum, and mostly rather close to the Faiyum mummy portraits in time as well. So chances are good they mostly looked like the Faiyum mummy portraits, which would be consistent with their genetic profile.

The "European" thing is sensationalist crap, they aren't.

---

Sensational?

quote:

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Minerva (/mɪˈnɜːr.və/; Latin: [mɪˈnɛr.wa]; Etruscan: Menrva) was the Roman goddess of wisdom and strategic warfare, and the sponsor of arts, trade, and strategy. She was born from the head of Jupiter, fully armed and clad in armor.[1] After impregnating the titaness Metis, Jupiter recalled a prophecy that his own child would overthrow him.

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quote:

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The Kaiser Wilhelm Society for the Advancement of Science (German Kaiser-Wilhelm-Gesellschaft zur Förderung der Wissenschaften) was a German scientific institution established in the German Kaiserreich in 1911. During the Third Reich it was involved in Nazi scientific operations, and after the Second World War concluded, its functions were taken over by the Max Planck Society.

The Kaiser Wilhelm Society was an umbrella organisation for many institutes, testing stations, and research units created under its authority.

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quote:

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Max Planck Society admits to its predecessor's Nazi links

Alison Abbott

Hubert Markl, president of the Max Planck Society (MPS), has accepted that the management and staff of its predecessor society were involved in Nazi war atrocities, and has apologized to their victims.His statement was in response to the findings of a group of science historians he commissioned in 1999 to investigate the role played by basic researchers of the Kaiser Wilhelm Society during the Second World War.

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quote:

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In 1924, the American Museum of Natural History (AMNH) in New York acquired a large collection of both archaeological and documentary material that had belonged to Austrian medical doctor, anthropologist and collector Felix von Luschan. Colloquially termed "The von Luschan Collection", a large portion of this collection consisted of human skeletal remains. Of these remains there are currently 339 individuals designated to the "el-Hesa" sub-collection, which is mainly made up of cranial and associated postcranial elements.

Uncovered in 1907 at Cemetery 2 of el-Hesa, one of the islands of the first cataract of the Nile, this skeletal collection illustrates the difficulties of using osteological material coming from Nubia, at the edge of the Egyptian territory. In particular, physical anthropologists continue to use outdated chronologies when discussing the age of the collection. This review of the el-Hesa collection provides an updated historical context for the remains, including new evidence dating them from the Late Roman period to the beginning of the Christian era.

DOI:10.2458/azu_jaei_v06i1_harcourt-smith

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—Vincent Francigny, Alex de Voogt, Joanna Kahn, William Harcourt-Smith

At the Border between Egypt and Nubia: Skeletal Material from El-Hesa Cemetery 2

https://www.academia.edu/6565600/At_the_border_between_Egypt_and_Nubia._Skeletal_material_from_el-Hesa_Cemetery_2
 

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Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 

ISH Gabor
Did african countries already learn how to build a car, a satellite, or even a wheel?
Or do they still live in those slums or running naked in the bush.

Noone denies black people lived in Europe. But they were slaves, Merchants or descendants of slaves, and ceraintly not ethnic greeks or Romans. like todays Blacks in Europe, they didnt contribute anything to european culture.(drugs dont Count).
By the way, enjoy the money my country sends to your third world country
Or let me gruess, you live in a country with a non-black majority, right. Probably a country inhabited by evil whites or asians or any other non black folk.
 

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Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Africa was being hold in colonial bondage, meaning progress was stopped. So by that logic of course they could not have developed economically. Inventing things is an extension of this. 

For your wheel comment, there are civilization that did not need the wheel. The wheel was invented in Asia not by whites / Europeans, it was introduced later introduced to Europe by Romans, who conquered and enslaved Europe. If not for this Europe still would have been living in woods in Celtic mudhuts as illiterates etc.

Suuuureeee. And Also the aborigines in Australia who lived Like stone age folk when whites arrived, where hold in Bondage.

Since whites arrived they at least know what trousers are and wheels. Now the aborigines can even enjoy Planes and Computers.

Without whites and asians all blacks would still live Like their australian aboriginal Brothers, running naked and competing with the mighty Lion
/Dingo for buffalos/ kagaroos

By the way, enjoy the money my country sends to your third world country
Or let me gruess, you live in a country with a non-black majority, right. Probably a country inhabited by evil whites or asians or any other non black folk.

Yeah, germanic tribes where iliiterate back Then. But Look at them now. And look to Sudan, Nigeria, congo or any other third world black country . They STILL are iliiterate
 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
You made a mistake coming to Egypt Search taking dumb stuff. You have no proper argument, so you derailed to some place in Asia, as if that makes your thinking valid. How dumb you are, seriously? “trousers”? What is your educational level? “Planes and Computers” are recent inventions. But we do see precursors of these at the Moors. All this sudden upsurge has a logical reason once you understand the Renaissance and Barock that was influenced by the Moors.

What money is beying send to “3rd world countries?” SMH
It’s obvious you don’t even understand the basics of economy.

quote:

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The Kanuri people of Bornu originated from the Tibu or Teda Negroids of Kanem, and of the Eastern Sahara. These Tibu were perhaps the Garamantes of Roman geographers. Their range in ancient times extended from Fezzan to Lake Chad.'

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quote:

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One of the richest inhabitants of fourth century Roman York, buried in a stone sarcophagus with luxury imports including jewellery made of elephant ivory, a mirror and a blue glass perfume jar, was a woman of black African ancestry, a re-examination of her skeleton has shown.

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quote:

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A common misconception is that the Romans in Britain were all born in Italy, had white skin, and spoke Latin. Not so: ever since the Emperor Claudius' multiethnic Roman army landed at Richborough in Kent in ad 43, there has been a black African presence in Britain (Britannia). Two types of Africans came to Britain: those who were Roman citizens, from African families of the ruling classes who had embraced Romanization (the acceptance of Latin and Roman culture), and those who did not necessarily have a choice, such as slaves and soldiers mustered in one of the Roman provinces in Africa.

1. Evidence [...]

2. Highranking officials [...]

3. Soldiers [...]

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--The Oxford Companion to Black British History
Edited by David Dabydeen, John Gilmore, and Cecily Jones
http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780192804396.001.0001/acref-9780192804396-e-356
 

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Posted by capra (Member # 22737) on :
 
the wheel was introduced by the Romans, learn something new every day.
 

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Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 

quote:

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You have no proper argument, so you derailed to some place in Asia, as if that makes your thinking valid. How dumb you are, seriously?

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excuse me, did you forget the Moors who were "colonializing" (invading) spain, Portugal,France? Enslaving hundreds of thousands whites?

By the way, jews were nearly extinct during WW2, still thise 7 millions won more nobel prizes ever since, than all black folk together.

By the way, enjoy the money my country sends to your third world country
Or let me gruess, you live in a country with a non-black majority, right. Probably a country inhabited by evil whites or asians or any other non black folk.
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
[Q] Clyde name one subhaplogroup that's not African [/Q]

---

quote:

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Originally posted by capra:
the wheel was introduced by the Romans, learn something new every day.

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Yep, you learn something new every day.

When Romans entered and spread they found you living in these! Most of Europe was forest up till a 1000 years ago, no kidding.





This period coincided with massive deforestation and marshland conversion programs in Northern and Western Europe, sometimes called the Great Clearances, which were designed to increase the arable land available (Hoffmann, Richard. An Environmental History of Medieval Europe. Cambridge University Press, 2014, pp. 119-131).
 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Nevermore:

quote:

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You have no proper argument, so you derailed to some place in Asia, as if that makes your thinking valid. How dumb you are, seriously?

---

excuse me, did you forget the Moors who were "colonializing" (invading) spain, Portugal,France? Enslaving hundreds of thousands whites?

By the way, jews were nearly extinct during WW2, still thise 7 millions won more nobel prizes ever since, than all black folk together.

By the way, enjoy the money my country sends to your third world country
Or let me gruess, you live in a country with a non-black majority, right. Probably a country inhabited by evil whites or asians or any other non black folk.

---

Hmmm actors actually these Africans were living at Iberian Peninsula long before Spain ever existed. So that was just another of your asshole arguments. Keep it going! These hundreds of thousands of whites is all hype from a crazy novel.

If so most were taken and enslaved by either Ottomans, or when they tried to conquer North Africa and sadly for them became enslaved.


https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0033589411001608-gr5.jpg


And this pretentious way of derailing topics is merely hilarious.


Anyway,

A Semitic slave. Ancient Egyptian figurine. Hecht Museum, Haifa.








 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:

quote:

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Originally posted by capra:
the wheel was introduced by the Romans, learn something new every day.
Yep, you learn something new every day.

When Romans entered and spread they found you living in these!

---

1) the wheel was not intruduced by the Romans
2) yeah, celts were living in huts thousands of years ago, but Look at them now. But Romans and greeks were White Back Then(and now) and showed them civilization
3) this ist how Blacks live TODAY
https://julia.pt/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Kibera-Slum-Nairobi.jpg

There you have your huts. You can intriduce the wheel there. Sure you will be the HERO for them
https://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1070501/375099958/stock-photo-east-of-windhoek-namibia-jan-unidentified-bushman-family-bushman-people-are-members-375099958.jp g

3) please answer my question.
Do U live in a third world country or in a Country with an EVIL non-black majority (first world asian or White countries)?
And why dont you Join your successful Brothers in Sudan, congo, Nigeria ??

---

You are obviously a very confused individual. Picking up arguments left and right, but it all doesn’t make sence. Showing a townsship is not going to help your cause. You and your alternative reality.

You are culture anthropologically numb. People like the Khoisan know about modern structure societies and technology, but willing choose not to invoke in this lifestyle.
They simply don’t want it!

And on that note:

















It’s obvious delusionalism is your best friend.
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[Q] Clyde name one subhaplogroup that's not African [/Q]

---

There are a few but mtDNA M., N, H, R, X etc are all African. Some Native American macro-groups (like A)may not be African.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
@ISH GABOR

yeah yeah yeah,

Live in you dream world (probably a White majority country= First world)

Instead You should support your successful Brothers
Maybe you can show them a LIGHTER or a wheel or GLASS. For Sure they will chose you to be their king.


Woooooow
These Pics you show, REALLY represent a typical african City. You are so smart

---

quote:

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Quick facts:

▪ The Benin walls consisted of a combination of ramparts and moats. 
The ramparts ranged in size from shallow traces to gigantic 20-meter-high (66 feet) around Benin City.
▪ It covered a border distance of 16,000km.
▪ It enclosed 6500km² of community land.
▪ Its construction is estimated to have started as early as 800AD.
▪ It was finally completed around 1460AD.
▪ It provided a defensive barrier against invaders.
▪ Shortly after the wall and the ditch were completed, the Portuguese visited Benin in 1472 AD.
▪ At that time, it was considered the world's largest earthwork. European visitors travel notes described the Great wall of Benin e.g. Dapper 1668.
▪ The Guinness Book of World Records (1974) describes the walls of Benin City as the world's second largest man-made structure after China's Great Wall,
in terms of length, and the series of earthen ramparts as the most extensive earthwork in the world.
▪ Fred Pearce wrote in New Scientist:

---

quote:

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African History: 8 Facts about The Great Walls of Benin

1 The Walls of Benin were used as a defense of the historical Benin City, formerly of the now defunct Kingdom of Benin and now the capital of the present-day Edo State of Nigeria.
2 It is considered the largest man-made structure lengthwise and was hailed as the largest earthwork in the world.
3 It enclosed 6,500 km² of community lands. Its length was over 16,000 km of earth boundaries. It was estimated that earliest construction began in 800 AD and continued into the mid-1400s.
4 The Benin Walls were ravaged by the British in 1897 during what has come to be called the Punitive expedition.
5 Scattered pieces of the structure remain in Edo, with the vast majority of them being used by the locals for building purposes. What remains of the wall itself continues to be torn down for real estate developments.
6 The Walls of Benin City was the world’s largest man-made earth structure.
7 In all, they are four times longer than the Great Wall of China, and consumed a hundred times more material than the Great Pyramid of Cheops.
8 They took an estimated 150 million hours of digging to construct, and are perhaps the largest single archaeological phenomenon on the planet.
The Benin Empire was a pre-colonial empire located in what is now southern Nigeria. Its capital was Edo, now known as Benin City. The Benin Empire was one of the oldest and most highly developed states in the coastal hinterland of West Africa, dating perhaps to the eleventh century CE, until it was annexed by the British Empire in 1897.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by capra:
the strange and hilarious part is how you pull something out of your ass that sounds good to you - Romans introduced the wheel, sure why not - then don't even bother to spend 30 seconds of Google to find out whether you are making a total ass of yourself. i suppose at this point your credibility is so far in the negative that there's no point even considering it.

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quote:

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▪ It was finally completed around 1460AD.
▪ It provided a defensive barrier against invaders.
▪ Shortly after the wall and the ditch were completed, the Portuguese visited Benin in 1472 AD.
▪ At that time, it was considered the world's largest earthwork. European visitors travel notes described the Great wall of Benin e.g. Dapper 1668.

---

This ist HILARIOUS

In 1472 Europe was in the Renaissance, had Universities in many countries. Leonardo da Vinci invented incredible things, Gutenberg invented the book Press? And you present me a Wall Made of DIRT??? ...SERIOUSLY???

You are a JOKER right??? I fully Support you in your career choice.

You are HILARIOUS !!!!!!!!!!!

Please Visit your tribe in africa (because obviously you dont live there) and intriduce the LIGHTER, WHEEL, GLASS to them.
they will Chose you as their King. Maybe you can collect even more DIRT and build an even bigger DIRTWALL !!!

And Show them some pants too!!!!!!
 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
@ISH GABOR

funny how you avoid my questions

quote:

---

▪ It was finally completed around 1460AD.
▪ It provided a defensive barrier against invaders.
▪ Shortly after the wall and the ditch were completed, the Portuguese visited Benin in 1472 AD.
▪ At that time, it was considered the world's largest earthwork. European visitors travel notes described the Great wall of Benin e.g. Dapper 1668.

---

This ist HILARIOUS

In 1472 Europe was in the Renaissance, had Universities in many countries. Leonardo da Vinci invented incredible things, Gutenberg invented the book Press? And you present me a Wall Made of DIRT?SERIOUSLY???
You are a JOKER right??? I fully Support you in your career choice.

You are HILARIOUS !!!!!!!!!!!

Please Visit your tribe in africa (because obviously you dont live there) and intriduce the LIGHTER, WHEEL, GLASS to them.
they will Chose you as their King. Maybe you can collect even more DIRT and build an even bigger DIRTWALL !!!

And Show them some pants too

---

The "big dirt wall" is the only argument you have.

Yet skipped: It was estimated that earliest construction began in 800 AD and continued into the mid-1400s.

It clear you didn't read any of the sources, considering your quick and dumb response.

And although it disputed your very claims you had initially. You should have looked at the post prior on, about Walata as well, jackass.


Sorry you loose again.

quote:

---

Djenné is the oldest known city in sub-Saharan Africa. Founded between 850 and 1200 A.D. by Soninke merchants, Djenné served as a trading post between the traders from the western and central Sudan and those from Guinea and was directly linked to the important trading city of Timbuktu, located 400 kilometers downstream on the Niger river. It was captured by the Songhai emperor Sonni 'Ali in 1468. Historically, Djenné was known as a center of Islamic learning, attracting students from all over the region who were followers of the Moslem faith. A very large number of terracotta sculptures have been found in the Inland Delta of the Niger River area of Mali, which date from the last centuries of the first millennium A.D. through the 15th century. The style is often referred to as the "Djenné" (or Jenne) style, named after a city that rose to prominence in this area in approximately 500 A.D. and experienced great prosperity until the end of the 15th century.

ECONOMY

Susan and Roderick McIntosh have divided the occupation of ancient Djenné into four important phases. During phase I (ca. 250 B.C - 50 A.D.), occupants of the site seem to have lived in temporary shelters made of grass or brush, to have smelted iron, eaten fish and some domesticated cattle and to have made pottery with sand temper of the type associated with desert peoples to the north. During Phase II (ca. 50-400 A.D.), the people of ancient Djenné grew rice and lived in permanent adobe homes, and the site increased in size. During Phase III (ca. 400-900 A.D.), many more homes were built and were occupied in some cases for centuries. The McIntoshes excavated four inhumation burials and nine urn burials in a crowded urban cemetery that provides evidence of the growth of population and density. It is in such burials that most of the figurative ceramics have been found. Throughout these periods population growth was probably stimulated by trade in iron, copper, fish, rice, gold, and salt between the desert and the Sahel (McIntosh and McIntosh 1981:20). The city probably reached its greatest size late in Phase III/early Phase IV. By 1468 A.D. the site had been completely abandoned and was being garrisoned by troops of the Songhai conqueror Sonni Ali during the siege of the new city of Djenné (McIntosh and McIntosh 1981: 15-17). The McIntoshes have no evidence of the reasons for decline and abandonment, but speculate that the site was the abandoned because it was associated with ancient "pagan" religious practices, and that the increasingly Muslim population wished to move to a new site more suitable for the construction of Muslim holy places, including the great mosque of Djenné.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
Africa was being hold in colonial bondage, meaning progress was stopped. So by that logic of course they could not have developed economically. Inventing things is an extension of this. 

For your wheel comment, there are civilization that did not need the wheel. The wheel was invented in Asia not by whites / Europeans, it was introduced later introduced to Europe by Romans, who conquered and enslaved Europe. If not for this Europe still would have been living in woods in Celtic mudhuts as illiterates etc.

Suuuureeee. And Also the aborigines in Australia who lived Like stone age folk when whites arrived, where hold in Bondage.

Since whites arrived they at least know what trousers are and wheels. Now the aborigines can even enjoy Planes and Computers.

---

quote:

---

Without whites and asians all blacks would still live Like their australian aboriginal Brothers, running naked and competing with the mighty Lion
/Dingo for buffalos/ kagaroos

---

quote:

---

Yeah, germanic tribes where iliiterate back Then. But Look at them now. And look to Sudan, Nigeria, congo or any other third world black country . They STILL are iliiterate

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
@ISH GABOR

funny how you avoid my questions

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▪ It was finally completed around 1460AD.
▪ It provided a defensive barrier against invaders.
▪ Shortly after the wall and the ditch were completed, the Portuguese visited Benin in 1472 AD.
▪ At that time, it was considered the world's largest earthwork. European visitors travel notes described the Great wall of Benin e.g. Dapper 1668.

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This ist HILARIOUS

In 1472 Europe was in the Renaissance, had Universities in many countries. Leonardo da Vinci invented incredible things, Gutenberg invented the book Press? And you present me a Wall Made of DIRT?SERIOUSLY???
You are a JOKER right??? I fully Support you in your career choice.

You are HILARIOUS !!!!!!!!!!!

Please Visit your tribe in africa (because obviously you dont live there) and intriduce the LIGHTER, WHEEL, GLASS to them.
they will Chose you as their King. Maybe you can collect even more DIRT and build an even bigger DIRTWALL !!!

And Show them some pants too!!!!!!

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I "avoid your questions"? Are dumb or simple retarded? I have addressed all your arguments / questions.

"1472 Europe was in the Renaissance, had Universities in many countries"

And the impulse was the Moors, which came after the fall to Rome (5th to 15th centuries AD)!

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"The King Provides Clothes for the Party A variety of fabrics were used to make clothing for the Moors - velvet ('wellus'), woollen kersey ('carsay') and fine Holland linen - which was decorated or fastened with buttons, rings or other ornaments ('mailyeis'). These were paid for by the treasury of King James IV. It seems that these Moors were not servants; it is more likely that they were invited guests staying at the palace. Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland, vol. 3, p. 101 (1505)"

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http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/blackhistory/early_times/docs/acc_scotp101.htm






In situ photographs of the Nimes burials, with a synthesis of age and sex of individuals, radiocarbon dates, maternal and paternal lineages. Note that the number near the funerary pit is the recording number of the picture. The stones around the burial SP7089 correspond to a roman wall and some stones were reused to close the funerary pit [Credit: Gleize et al.]
 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

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Originally posted by Oshun:
But you enjoy the algorithms in the computer because of Blacks. We have math because of Blacks. We have the first human evidence of science from blacks.

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I wanted to save the best for last. I already responded with the Moorish influence. And I have proven to the jackass that there was already civilization before Europeans entered (west) Africa. The jackass got nervous and started to put in all kinds of weird pictures and claims. He is typically a white unedited jackass like so many of them. He thinks that his pale skin "automatically" makes him intelligent.


Now this is something many people don't know.




Alan Emtage: The Man Who Invented The World’s First Search Engine (But Didn’t Patent It)

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/01/alan-emtage-search-engine_n_2994090.html

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I moved back home 15 years ago after a 20-year stay in the United States, and Africa called me back. And I founded my country's first graphic design and new media college. And I called it the Zimbabwe Institute of Vigital Arts. The idea, the dream, was really for a sort of Bauhaus sort of school where new ideas were interrogated and investigated, the creation of a new visual language based on the African creative heritage. We offer a two-year diploma to talented students who have successfully completed their high school education. And typography's a very important part of the curriculum and we encourage our students to look inward for influence. Here's a poster designed by one of the students under the theme "Education is a right." Some logos designed by my students.


Africa has had a long tradition of writing, but this is not such a well-known fact, and I wrote the book "Afrikan Alphabets" to address that. The different types of writing in Africa, first was proto-writing, as illustrated by Nsibidi, which is the writing system of a secret society of the Ejagham people in southern Nigeria. So it's a special-interest writing system. The Akan of people of Ghana and [Cote d'Ivoire] developed Adinkra symbols some 400 years ago, and these are proverbs, historical sayings, objects, animals, plants, and my favorite Adinkra system is the first one at the top on the left. It's called Sankofa. It means, "Return and get it." Learn from the past. This pictograph by the Jokwe people of Angola tells the story of the creation of the world. At the top is God, at the bottom is man, mankind, and on the left is the sun, on the right is the moon. All the paths lead to and from God. These secret societies of the Yoruba, Kongo and Palo religions in Nigeria, Congo and Angola respectively, developed this intricate writing system which is alive and well today in the New World in Cuba, Brazil and Trinidad and Haiti.


In the rainforests of the Democratic Republic of Congo, in the Ituri society, the men pound out a cloth out of a special tree, and the women, who are also the praise singers, paint interweaving patterns that are the same in structure as the polyphonic structures that they use in their singing -- a sort of a musical score, if you may. In South Africa, Ndebele women use these symbols and other geometric patterns to paint their homes in bright colors, and the Zulu women use the symbols in the beads that they weave into bracelets and necklaces.


Ethiopia has had the longest tradition of writing, with the Ethiopic script that was developed in the fourth century A.D. and is used to write Amharic, which is spoken by over 24 million people. King Ibrahim Njoya of the Bamum Kingdom of Cameroon developed Shü-mom at the age of 25. Shü-mom is a writing system. It's a syllabary. It's not exactly an alphabet. And here we see three stages of development that it went through in 30 years. The Vai people of Liberia had a long tradition of literacy before their first contact with Europeans in the 1800s. It's a syllabary and reads from left to right. Next door, in Sierra Leone, the Mende also developed a syllabary, but theirs reads from right to left.


Africa has had a long tradition of design, a well-defined design sensibility, but the problem in Africa has been that, especially today, designers in Africa struggle with all forms of design because they are more apt to look outward for influence and inspiration. The creative spirit in Africa, the creative tradition, is as potent as it has always been, if only designers could look within. This Ethiopic cross illustrates what Dr. Ron Eglash has established: that Africa has a lot to contribute to computing and mathematics through their intuitive grasp of fractals.


Africans of antiquity created civilization, and their monuments, which still stand today, are a true testimony of their greatness. Most probably, one of humanity's greatest achievements is the invention of the alphabet, and that has been attributed to Mesopotamia with their invention of cuneiform in 1600 BC, followed by hieroglyphics in Egypt, and that story has been cast in stone as historical fact. That is, until 1998, when one Yale professor John Coleman Darnell discovered these inscriptions in the Thebes desert on the limestone cliffs in western Egypt, and these have been dated at between 1800 and 1900 B.C., centuries before Mesopotamia. Called Wadi el-Hol because of the place that they were discovered, these inscriptions -- research is still going on, a few of them have been deciphered, but there is consensus among scholars that this is really humanity's first alphabet. Over here, you see a paleographic chart that shows what has been deciphered so far, starting with the letter A, "ālep," at the top, and "bêt," in the middle, and so forth. It is time that students of design in Africa read the works of titans like Cheikh Anta Diop, Senegal's Cheikh Anta Diop, whose seminal work on Egypt is vindicated by this discovery.


The last word goes to the great Jamaican leader Marcus Mosiah Garvey and the Akan people of Ghana with their Adinkra symbol Sankofa, which encourages us to go to the past so as to inform our present and build on a future for us and our children. It is also time that designers in Africa stop looking outside. They've been looking outward for a long time, yet what they were looking for has been right there within grasp, right within them.

Thank you very much.

(Applause)

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https://www.ted.com/talks/ron_eglash_on_african_fractals
 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
Above are the signs of a desperate person with barely any form of education. Taking pictures of off the internet you yourself don't understand. Hilarious dumb you are, now trying to claim Asians as well, when you don't even like the Asian Tiger and are scared of the African Lion to become big and strong. What about the Asians you posted about earlier on, dumbass?


Above are the signs of a desperate person with barely any form of education. Taking pictures of off the internet you yourself don't understand. Hilarious dumb you are, now trying to claim Asians as well. What about the Asians you posted about earlier on, dumbass?


Most of Asia is 3rd World. You dumb individual.



 

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Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
@ISH GABOR

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Above are the signs of a desperate person with barely any form of education. Taking pictures of off the internet you yourself don't understand. Hilarious dumb you are, now trying to claim Asians as well, when you don't even like the Asian Tiger and are scared of the African Lion to become big and strong. What about the Asians you posted about earlier on, dumbass?

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I dont Unterstand Pictures? What are you talking about. Looool.

You yourself are a Desperate refugee who lives in evil Europe or any evil asian or Western country instead of being with His own folk the mighty bushmen without trousers, shoes and even the knoledge of how to make a Sheet of Paper.

But i support you. You are just too HILARIOUS

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Above are the signs of a desperate person with barely any form of education

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Originally posted by Nevermore:

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Above are the signs of a desperate person with barely any form of education. Taking pictures of off the internet you yourself don't understand. Hilarious dumb you are, now trying to claim Asians as well, when you don't even like the Asian Tiger and are scared of the African Lion to become big and strong. What about the Asians you posted about earlier on, dumbass?

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I dont Unterstand Pictures? What are you talking about. Looool.

You yourself are a Desperate refugee who lives in evil Europe or any evil asian or Western country instead of being with His own folk the mighty bushmen without trousers, shoes and even the knoledge of how to make a Sheet of Papier.

But i support you. You are just too HILARIOUS

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Your "Bush man" obsession is crazy. I am not even a Khoisan, you dumbo. The Khoisan are more in tune and in harmony with nature than you even have been and will be. And they possess old wisdom. Other ethic groups long before europeans entered (west) African had trousers and sandals (shoes). But I don't expect you to know this, since you lack critical thinking skills. You are so dumb its hilarious.




https://africa.si.edu/exhibits/beninfr.htm


So again, are obviously too dimwitted to understand the most simplest of things.

Africa and Asia are recovering slowly from colonial oppression and imperial backslashes. And this terrifies you, so you loose again!!! And that is what this is all about, your insignificant pathetic feelings!!! The more fascist you become, the more metaphysical power backfires at you. So keep it going.

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
@ISH GABOR
You yourself are a Desperate refugee

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I was never a refugee. So I don't know what the hell you are talking about. Oh wait, you're a uneducated

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Originally posted by Nevermore:

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Indeed, be quiet … be very quiet and sit your dumb dunce ass down in the corner!








http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-general/british-museum-distorts-history-and-denies-its-racist-past-006675
 

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Posted by ELIMU (Member # 21677) on :
 

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
What about this Guy? Ramses II



I dont see curly hair, huge broad nose, large lips here.

Btw. Ancient egyptians wore wigs. So Hair as represented on sculptures is not a proof for a phenotype.

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
What about this Guy? Ramses II



I dont see curly hair, huge broad nose, large lips here.

Btw. Ancient egyptians wore wigs. So Hair as represented on sculptures is not a proof for a phenotype.

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
As I said before, this Nevermore individual is dumb as hell.


What about this Guy? Ramses II
What about him?


Ramses II






A local man, from where Ramses II originated, Southern Egypt.



 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
@oshun

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Why does this person still not understand that the developments in his world are largely the result whites living in the temperate zone land and not being isolated from the rest of the world. It's funny how they talk about the Sahara being a "barrier" but don't want to consider how isolation, climate differences, parasite effects on livestock and more all came together to create inequalities between peoples who WANTED these types of urbanized communities

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Wait, i thought according to afrocentrists whites learned everything from Blacks? Even the Renaissance as ISH GOBBUR claimed. And even how to build Walls Made of DIRT
On the other hand, blacks didnt teach Blacks anything

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The rapid Arab-Islamic conquest during the early Middle Ages led to major political and cultural changes in the Mediterranean world. Although the early medieval Muslim presence in the Iberian Peninsula is now well documented, based in the evaluation of archeological and historical sources, the Muslim expansion in the area north of the Pyrenees has only been documented so far through textual sources or rare archaeological data. Our study provides the first archaeo-anthropological testimony of the Muslim establishment in South of France through the multidisciplinary analysis of three graves excavated at Nimes. First, we argue in favor of burials that followed Islamic rites and then note the presence of a community practicing Muslim traditions in Nimes. Second, the radiometric dates obtained from all three human skeletons (between the 7th and the 9th centuries AD) echo historical sources documenting an early Muslim presence in southern Gaul (i.e., the first half of 8th century AD). Finally, palaeogenomic analyses conducted on the human remains provide arguments in favor of a North African ancestry of the three individuals, at least considering the paternal lineages. Given all of these data, we propose that the skeletons from the Nimes burials belonged to Berbers integrated into the Umayyad army during the Arab expansion in North Africa. Our discovery not only discusses the first anthropological and genetic data concerning the Muslim occupation of the Visigothic territory of Septimania but also highlights the complexity of the relationship between the two communities during this period.

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You are dumb and slow

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Quote by ISH GEBOR, the "educated" man, probably without a University degree, living in an evil non-black country, complaining about asians and whites and Browns. This ist just typical refugee/ Immigrant or whatever the hell you are.


 

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Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
 

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
@oshun

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Why does this person still not understand that the developments in his world are largely the result whites living in the temperate zone land and not being isolated from the rest of the world. It's funny how they talk about the Sahara being a "barrier" but don't want to consider how isolation, climate differences, parasite effects on livestock and more all came together to create inequalities between peoples who WANTED these types of urbanized communities

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Wait, i thought according to afrocentrists whites learned everything from Blacks? Even the Renaissance as ISH GOBBUR claimed. And even how to build Walls Made of DIRT
On the other hand, blacks didnt teach Blacks anything, so they never head a Renaissance or a wheel, or GLASS or trousers

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
@oshun

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Why does this person still not understand that the developments in his world are largely the result whites living in the temperate zone land and not being isolated from the rest of the world. It's funny how they talk about the Sahara being a "barrier" but don't want to consider how isolation, climate differences, parasite effects on livestock and more all came together to create inequalities between peoples who WANTED these types of urbanized communities

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Wait, i thought according to afrocentrists whites learned everything from Blacks? Even the Renaissance as ISH GOBBUR claimed. And even how to build Walls Made of DIRT
On the other hand, blacks didnt teach Blacks anything, so they never head a Renaissance or a wheel, or GLASS or trousers

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Your level of stupidity exceeds everything I have ever encountered. I already have posted that they had trousers, but you are too dumb to grasp simple things. So you are stuck in this world of endless stupidity and mind dribble. And glass came from the Moors and Romans (depending in the technique being used. Before that there was not such thing known to masses of Europe. Stop the delusional garbage and lies.


The wheel goes back to ancient times, in Africa.

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Yorkshire clan linked to Africa

The connection was found to date back many generations
People of African origin have lived in Britain for centuries, according to genetic evidence.


Of 18 people they tested, seven carried the rare African haplogroup.

Turi King and Leicester colleague Mark Jobling then commissioned a genealogist to fit the men into a family tree to see how they were related and find clues about where exactly their unusual Y haplogroup came from.

"He could only get them into two trees, one which dates back to 1788 and the other to 1789. He couldn't go back any further. So it's likely they join up in the early 18th Century," said Turi King.

The majority of the one million people who define themselves as "black" or "black British" trace their origins to immigration from the Caribbean or Africa from the middle of the 20th Century onwards.

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From the 16th century, the employment of Africans became increasingly common in England. Wealthy - and not so wealthy - people in the kingdom might have one or two Black servants, footmen or musicians. Whether these retainers were enslaved or free is often unclear in the documents. However, there were certainly also free Black people in a variety of occupations.

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Our knowledge of Black people present in Britain in early times is scanty. However, studies by scholars, archaeologists and historians have pieced together evidence about the lives of Black Romans.

One historian, Anthony Birley, in his work The African Emperor: Septimius Severus, explains that between AD 193 and 211 the Roman empire embraced a multicultural mix of peoples from Syria, Germany, Britain, Spain and Africa. Eight African men had positions of command in the northern Roman legions, and others held high rank as equestrian officers.

[...]

During his time in office, Septimius legalised marriage during military service. There is no evidence to suggest that all the Roman legionaries returned home upon their discharge from military service, so it is possible that some Black Romans married, had children, and remained in Britain after their tour of duty. Perhaps they might be considered to be Britain's first diaspora people -from North Africa.

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London has a rich mix of people and cultures from all over the world. The population is constantly changing and people have been coming and going for centuries. In the past years a lot of black and Asian people have settled in parts of Britain. Many years ago, there was an African Roman Emperor, Septimius Severus, who ruled large parts of Europe, the Middle East and Africa. When he came to Hadrian’s Wall in 208AD, there were black soldiers already stationed there, they had travelled right across the Empire.

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It was recently suggested that African DNA might be found to be present in the local populations near to Hadrian’s Wall, for instance Burgh-by-Sands. However, this would not conclusively show that the black Roman soldiers on the wall intermarried with the local population because of the problem of admixture. Admixture is a process whereby the DNA of a population becomes diluted over time and it cannot be shown at what period in time that dilution took place.

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Black people in Europe

Engraving of Olaudah Equiano

Engraving of abolition campaigner Olaudah Equiano from the 1793 edition of his autobiography (originally published in 1789)
Maritime archives and library reference 512.EQU/R

A few Africans had visited and lived in Europe, including Britain, since Roman times. From the 1450s the Portuguese transported thousands of enslaved Africans to Spain, Portugal and Italy to work as servants or in the fields. Lisbon, for instance, had a significant African population from the 16th century.

As the transatlantic trade developed, ships' captains and plantation owners brought Africans back to the countries of Northern Europe. They sold them to work, mainly as domestic servants. Many were children.

'Dear Mama, George Hanger has sent me a black boy eleven years old and very honest, but the Duke don't like me having a black.... if you like him instead of Michel I will send him, he will be a cheap servant and you will make a Christian of him and a good boy; if you don't like him they say Lady Rockingham wants one.'

Duchess of Devonshire to her mother, c1790

In Britain Queen Elizabeth was complaining about the number of 'blackamoores' as early as 1596. By the mid 18th century London had the largest Black population in Britain, made up of free and enslaved people, as well as many runaways. The total number may have been about 10,000.

It was regarded as fashionable amongst the upper classes to have a Black servant and they sometimes feature in paintings, such as 'The family of Sir William Young' by Zoffany. There were Black people in many other towns, such as Liverpool, Bristol, Bath and Lancaster. Smaller number of Black people were also found in rural areas throughout the country.

A number of Black people achieved prominence. Ignatius Sancho (1729-1780) opened his own grocer's shop in Westminster. He wrote poetry and music and his friends included the novelist Laurence Sterne, David Garrick the actor and the Duke and Duchess of Montague. He is best known for his letters which were published after his death. Others such as Olaudah Equiano and Cuguano were active in the abolition campaigns.

The legal status of enslaved people in Europe was often unclear. In Britain it was not finally resolved until abolition in 1838, though after the famous Somerset case in 1772 enslaved people could not be sent back to the colonies against their will.

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http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/slavery/europe/black_people.aspx
 

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Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Yeah, White superiority. Of course, There isnt auch a Thing as black superiority.

Muslim Author, Al-Jahiz from the 9th century in His Work "the superiority of Blacks over whites"
“*Therefore, if the Arabs are ****ruddy****, then they belong to the Byzantines (Rum), Slaves (Saqaliba), Persians and Khurasanis. But if they belong to the dark-skinned peoples, then they are a sub-category of our stock. So they are called medium-complexioned and brownish-black (sumr sud) when they are classified with us, as the Arabs use the masculine gender to refer to a group consisting of females and males.”

Furthermore from Lisan al-Arab:
“ And the Arabs used to say about the non-Arabs with whom white skin was characteristic, such as the Romans, Persians, and their neighbors: ‘They are red-skinned (*al-hamra’*)…”* al-hamra’* means the Persians and Romans…And the Arabs attribute white skin to the slaves"
 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
Yeah, White superiority. Of course, There isnt auch a Thing as black superiority.

Muslim Author, Al-Jahiz from the 9th century in His Work "the superiority of Blacks over whites"
“*Therefore, if the Arabs are ****ruddy****, then they belong to the Byzantines (Rum), Slaves (Saqaliba), Persians and Khurasanis. But if they belong to the dark-skinned peoples, then they are a sub-category of our stock. So they are called medium-complexioned and brownish-black (sumr sud) when they are classified with us, as the Arabs use the masculine gender to refer to a group consisting of females and males.”

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Of course your endless dumb mind dribble will continue posting things you barely understand or even have studied.



The Hellenistically influenced fresco of an Arabian King from Qaryat Al-Faw






Historical Look at Saudi Arabia

https://www.aramcoexpats.com/photos/historical-look-at-saudi-arabia-1940s-part-1/

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قالوا و كان واد عبد المصلب اعشرة السادة دلما ضخما نظر اليهم علمر بن الطفيل يطوفون كانهم جمال جون فقال؛ بهولأْ تمنع السدانه و كان عبد الله بن عباس ادام صحما ولد اب طالب اشرف الخلق و هم سود و ادم و دلم

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there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu Sulaim are black.

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
Yeah, White superiority. Of course, There isnt auch a Thing as black superiority.

Muslim Author, Al-Jahiz from the 9th century in His Work "the superiority of Blacks over whites"
“*Therefore, if the Arabs are ****ruddy****, then they belong to the Byzantines (Rum), Slaves (Saqaliba), Persians and Khurasanis. But if they belong to the dark-skinned peoples, then they are a sub-category of our stock. So they are called medium-complexioned and brownish-black (sumr sud) when they are classified with us, as the Arabs use the masculine gender to refer to a group consisting of females and males.”

Furthermore from Lisan al-Arab:
“ And the Arabs used to say about the non-Arabs with whom white skin was characteristic, such as the Romans, Persians, and their neighbors: ‘They are red-skinned (*al-hamra’*)…”* al-hamra’* means the Persians and Romans…And the Arabs attribute white skin to the slaves"

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"And the Arabs attribute white skin to the slaves"

Go read basic history first, before you come here poppin' crap.


A Mamluk Manuscript on Horsemanship

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http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/asian-and-african/qatar/


Turk & Mongol Rule (930 - 1534)

End of Baghdad Glory and Break Down of Urban Life.


Mongol and Turkic Impact on Iraq

Arab-Muslim conquests of Iraq in the 7th century brought a new order and culture to Iraq, which was preserved during the Seljuk Turk era. Even though the Mongols converted to Islam, they largely destroyed the order and stability of Western Asia, Iraq included. Cities and institutions were decimated, and populations reduced in brutal fashion. Baghdad was a shining beacon for the Muslim world for 500 years before the Mongol invasions. After being almost completely demolished, it remained a dilapidated outpost throughout the duration of Mongol Rule. The Mongol era in particular served as a dark ages of sorts for the Middle East, as architectural and academic prowess came to a halt. The effect proved to be long term and devastating, as Iraq would never fully recover. It remained a disorderly province of the Ottoman Empire for four centuries, enabling the British to take control after WWI. Even after shedding British rule in 1958, Iraq would remain vulnerable to instability and repressive, authoritarian rule. The Mongols and Turks had little genetic impact on Iraqis, suggesting minimal intermixing of the ruling class with the general population.


http://www.worldology.com/Iraq/turk_mongol_rule.htm




Ottoman Empire in Iraq (1534 - 1917)
Four Centuries of Instability in Iraq Under Ottoman Turk Rule.





http://www.worldology.com/Iraq/ottoman_empire.htm

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there are black tribes among the Arabs, such as the Banu Sulaim bin Mansur, and that all the peoples settled in the Harra, besides the Banu Sulaim are black.

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Originally posted by Nevermore:

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Of course you end your endless dumb mind dribble will continue posting things you barely understand or even have studied

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Look whos talking. The Immigrant/refugees without education!

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Originally posted by Nevermore:

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Of course you end your endless dumb mind dribble will continue posting things you barely understand or even have studied

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Look whos talking. The Immigrant/refugees without education!
I thought greeks, Romans, persians were black
Lool

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
Yeah, White superiority. Of course, There isnt auch a Thing as black superiority.

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Turk & Mongol Rule (930 - 1534)

End of Baghdad Glory and Break Down of Urban Life.

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Are you a Troll???
I quote a guy from the 9th(!!!!) Century, and you are presenting Seljuks and mongols who arrived later?
Again HILARIOUS
This proves you got no education, as you are Not able to follow three liners.

ISH GEBOR

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Hilarious! It is who's not whos you jackass

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Originally posted by Oshun:

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
Yeah, White superiority. Of course, There isnt auch a Thing as black superiority.

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There was not push for blacks to seek achievement with no one else until white supremacy. Nor do any of these black supremacists have any institutional pull.

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Originally posted by Nevermore:

quote:

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Turk & Mongol Rule (930 - 1534)

End of Baghdad Glory and Break Down of Urban Life.

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Are you a Troll???
I quote a guy from the 9th(!!!!) Century, and you are presenting Seljuks and mongols who arrived later?
Again HILARIOUS

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• Seljuks and Early Turkish States
• Turkish Tribes in the Middle Ages
• Creation of the Seljuk Empire In Iran and Iraq
• Seljuk Rule in Iran and Iraq
• Seljuk Turks in Central Asia

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Muslim Arabs Conquer Iraq from Persian Sassanid Empire (633 - 636): Islam proved to be a powerful unifying force, enabling the previously fragmented Arab tribes to defeat the highly-feared Persian army. The Arab invasion began after the death of Muhammad, led by his successor, Abu Bakr (first Caliph - Muslim Emperor).

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
ISH GEBOR

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Hilarious! It is who's not whos you jackass

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Btw. English is not my First language and and im typing from a Phone right now.
But nice you speak a relevant language, instead of your irrelevant africa tongue.

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Originally posted by Nevermore:

Are you a Troll???
I quote a guy from the 9th(!!!!) Century, and you are presenting Seljuks and mongols who arrived later?
Again HILARIOUS

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

Nope, actually it's you who is the troll. As you stated you quoted a guy from the 9th century. Turk & Mongol Rule "930" . Can you count?

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Ahahhhaaa ahaaahhaaa ahhaaaa

ISH GEBOR YOU ARE A FREAK!!!!!

930 AD IS the 10th Century !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahahhhaaa ahhahahaaahhaa YOU UNEDUCATED REFUGEE !!!!!!!

PLEASE find some 6 year old Kid to teach you how to count!!! Loooooooooool

Where did you go to school,if you did???
Please tell me, i wanna visit its Homepage
 

---

Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
 
And now this thread is quickly kicking the bucket..
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Nevermore, stop the name calling in this thread

Anybody else as well

Lioness, moderator
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
OK, I apologize.
We are individuals with different opinions. But thats ok.
No need to being impolite.(Although i didnt start the name calling. Go through the comments)
Anyway, Im sorry.
But i also have to defend the lioness.
Why should non-black people not be allowed to be moderators? This is ridiculous.
All the best!
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
OK, I apologie.
We are individuals with different opinions. But thats ok.
No need to being impolite.(Although i didnt start the name calling. Go through the comments)
Anyway, Im sorry.
But i also have to defend the lioness.
Why should non-black people not be allowed to be moderators? This is ridiculous.
All the best!

---

It's not respectable argumentation to represent a whole continent by it most run down slums, that is weak argumentation
and you are using racial stereotypes
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 

quote:

---

It's not respectable argumentation to represent a whole continent by it most run down slums, that is weak argumentation

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ELIMU:
Because this is a Ptolemaic greek mummy passed off as dynastic Egyptian of the Rammesside era. I am 100% certain that if a unbiased DNA testing company conducts a DNA on this mummy it will be found with Greek DNA.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy

Wikipedia, black supremacy


Supremacy means superiority so the al-Jahiz qualifies
But it's more of a modern concept
The Nation of Islam is a Black supremacist group
They say the Black Man is God and the white man is the devil, that is Black supremacy

---

I already posted the etymology of the word Supremacy. You try to change the narrative of the origin of the word. The Nation of Islam is not a "supremacist group". Where do to dominated and impose their domination upon other people? What you post is mindless mind dribble.

What do they claim that makes them "supremacist"? You don't understand the subjects you try to talk about, and that is a problem!


Whites claim to be "god", but you have no problems with that? And yes "…" that too!

Whites have done extremely wicked things to black America throughout all of Americas history, but you see no problems therein!
Because of these things black America is in a state of decay, so-called "black American woman", with a so-called degree in social science. But black people should not get angry over these things and call out their EVILS, blacks need to swallow it and shut up about it, right?


What were the 'black codes'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAUXdd-DAh0


1724 Christian Black Codes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCf_8UJ5oRs


The Updated Black Codes/ The New Reconstruction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHPMT0ZJhq8

Isabel Wilkerson, journalist and author of "The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration," speaks at Yale as a Poynter Fellow in Journalism. The event was co-sponsored by the Department of African American Studies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyFUBPAZzqk


Read The Color Of Law, and zip-your-lip. You are not intelligent enough to carry the weight of this conversation.




 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
OK, I apologize.
We are individuals with different opinions. But thats ok.
No need to being impolite.(Although i didnt start the name calling. Go through the comments)
Anyway, Im sorry.
But i also have to defend the lioness.
Why should non-black people not be allowed to be moderators? This is ridiculous.
All the best!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:

Are you a Troll???
I quote a guy from the 9th(!!!!) Century, and you are presenting Seljuks and mongols who arrived later?
Again HILARIOUS

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

Nope, actually it's you who is the troll. As you stated you quoted a guy from the 9th century. Turk & Mongol Rule "930" . Can you count?

---

Ahahhhaaa ahaaahhaaa ahhaaaa

ISH GEBOR YOU ARE A FREAK!!!!!

930 AD IS the 10th Century !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahahhhaaa ahhahahaaahhaa YOU UNEDUCATED REFUGEE !!!!!!!

PLEASE find some 6 year old Kid to teach you how to count!!! Loooooooooool

Where did you go to school,if you did???
Please tell me, i wanna visit its Homepage

---

quote:

---

Muslim Arabs Conquer Iraq from Persian Sassanid Empire (633 - 636): Islam proved to be a powerful unifying force, enabling the previously fragmented Arab tribes to defeat the highly-feared Persian army. The Arab invasion began after the death of Muhammad, led by his successor, Abu Bakr (first Caliph - Muslim Emperor).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
ISH GEBOR
But nice you speak a relevant language, instead of your irrelevant africa tongue.

---

—Chris Ehret

quote:

---

Y-chromosome haplogroup tree

The Y-chromosome haplogroup tree has been constructed manually following YCC 2008 nomenclature20 with some modifications.35 The tree (Supplementary Figure S1) contains the E haplogroups of Eritrean populations from this study and those reported in the literature.22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 Genotyping results for E-V13, E-V12, E-V22 and E-V32 reported for Eritrean samples and elsewhere23, 27 were retracted to E-M78 haplogroup level. All the analyses in this study were done at the same resolution using the following 17 bi-allelic markers: E-M96, E-M33, E-P2, E-M2, E-M58, E-M191, E-M154, E-M329, E-M215, E-M35, E-M78, E-M81, E-M123, E-M34, E-V6, E-V16/E-M281 and E-M75.

[...]

Interestingly, this ancestral cluster includes populations like Fulani who has previously shown to display Eastern African ancestry, common history with the Hausa who are the furthest Afro-Asiatic speakers to the west in the Sahel, with a large effective size and complex genetic background. 23 The Fulani who currently speak a language classified as Niger-Kordofanian may have lost their original tongue to as sociated sedentary group similar to other cattle herders in Africa a common tendency among pastoralists. Clearly cultural trends exemplified by populations, like Hausa or Massalit, the latter who have neither strong tradition in agriculture nor animal husbandry, were established subsequent to the initial differentiation of haplogroup E. For example, the early clusters within the network also include Nilo-Saharan speakers like Kunama of Eritrea and Nilotic of Sudan who are ardent nomadic pastoralists but speak a language of non-Afro-Asiatic background the predominant linguistic family within the macrohaplogroup.

[...]

The Sahel, which extends between the Atlantic coast of Africa and the Red Sea plateau, represents one of the least sampled areas and populations in the domain of human genetics. The position of Eritrea adjacent to the Red Sea coast provides opportunities for insights regarding human migrations within and beyond the African landscape.

---

quote:

---

It's about the happenings during that time range itself, not about the "actual" century description given.

---

Nope. Since you wrote:

quote:

---

Nope, actually it's you who is the troll. As you stated you quoted a guy from the 9th century. Turk & Mongol Rule "930" . Can you count?

---

Nice try hiding you are uneducated! The "time range 930-1500" does NEVER include the 9th century.

Loool.

Again: please Tell me your education. But you refuse to tell me, cause you are ashamed
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
You speak of education, yet cannot even write a simple proper sentence. And my educational background is well know here on the platform.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:

quote:

---

It's about the happenings during that time range itself, not about the "actual" century description given.

---

Nope. Since you wrote:

quote:

---

Nope, actually it's you who is the troll. As you stated you quoted a guy from the 9th century. Turk & Mongol Rule "930" . Can you count?

---

Nice try hiding you are uneducated!

Loool.

Again: please Tell me your education. But you refuse to tell me, cause you are ashamed

---

quote:

---

Muslim Arabs Conquer Iraq from Persian Sassanid Empire (633 - 636): Islam proved to be a powerful unifying force, enabling the previously fragmented Arab tribes to defeat the highly-feared Persian army. The Arab invasion began after the death of Muhammad, led by his successor, Abu Bakr (first Caliph - Muslim Emperor).

---

• Seljuks and Early Turkish States
• Turkish Tribes in the Middle Ages
• Creation of the Seljuk Empire In Iran and Iraq
• Seljuk Rule in Iran and Iraq
• Seljuk Turks in Central Asia

quote:

---

Funny how you keep skipping this reality

---

OMG

Would someone please Tell this Kid that 930AD- 1532AD is DOES NOT INCLUDE THE 9TH Century????


ISH Gebor you are just das.
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:

quote:

---

Funny how you keep skipping this reality

---

OMG

Would someone please Tell this Kid that 930AD- 1532AD is DOES NOT INCLUDE THE 9TH Century????


ISH Gebor you are just das.

---

quote:

---

The strongest of these tribes was the Seljuks. In the wake of the Samanids (819-1005)---Persians who set up a local dynasty in Central Asia within the Abbasid Empire--- arose to two Turkish dynasties: the Ghaznavids, based in Khorasan in present-day Turkmenistan, and the Karakhanids from present-day Kazakhstan.

[…]

The Abbasids—the Arab-Muslim rulers of Bahgdad—were displaced by Turkic-speaking warriors who had been in Central Asia for more than a millennium. The Abbasid caliphs began enlisting these people as slave warriors as early as the ninth century. The Turkish horsemen, known as gazis , were organized into tribal bands to defend the frontiers of the caliphate, often against their own kinsmen.


Shortly thereafter the real power of the Abbasid caliphs began to wane; eventually they became religious figureheads while the warrior slaves ruled. As the power of the Abbasid caliphs diminished, a series of independent and indigenous dynasties rose in various parts of Iran, some with considerable influence and power. Among the most important of these overlapping dynasties were the Tahirids in Khorasan (820-72); the Saffarids in Sistan (867-903); and the Samanids (875-1005), originally at Bukhara (also cited as Bokhara).

---

http://factsanddetails.com/asian/cat65/sub424/entry-5258.html#chapter-3


Keep making yourself look like a jackass.
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
ISH GEBOR

What the f..k are u talking about?? Lool

I quoted a guy from the 9 TH Century who Said greeks, romans, persians are red ( White skinned) and you present me turkic Migration from 930 - 1532 AD.

Which started decades after All jahiz wrote this book!!!!


You are too HILARIOUS, this is why you dont dare to tell me about your education

Are there actually any academics on this Board?
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
ISH GEBOR

What the f..k are u talking about?? Lool

I quoted a guy from the 9 TH Century who Said greeks, romans, persians are red ( White skinned) and you present me turkic Migration from 930 - 1532 AD.

Which happened decades after All jahiz wrote this book!!!!


You are too HILARIOUS, this is why dont dare to tell me about your education

---

quote:

---

The strongest of these tribes was the Seljuks. In the wake of the Samanids (819-1005)---Persians who set up a local dynasty in Central Asia within the Abbasid Empire--- arose to two Turkish dynasties: the Ghaznavids, based in Khorasan in present-day Turkmenistan, and the Karakhanids from present-day Kazakhstan.

[…]

The Abbasids—the Arab-Muslim rulers of Bahgdad—were displaced by Turkic-speaking warriors who had been in Central Asia for more than a millennium. The Abbasid caliphs began enlisting these people as slave warriors as early as the ninth century. The Turkish horsemen, known as gazis , were organized into tribal bands to defend the frontiers of the caliphate, often against their own kinsmen.


Shortly thereafter the real power of the Abbasid caliphs began to wane; eventually they became religious figureheads while the warrior slaves ruled. As the power of the Abbasid caliphs diminished, a series of independent and indigenous dynasties rose in various parts of Iran, some with considerable influence and power. Among the most important of these overlapping dynasties were the Tahirids in Khorasan (820-72); the Saffarids in Sistan (867-903); and the Samanids (875-1005), originally at Bukhara (also cited as Bokhara).

---

http://factsanddetails.com/asian/cat65/sub424/entry-5258.html#chapter-3


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=012702;p=2#000088


Keep making a fool out of yourself.
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
OMG !!!!!!

The seljuks arrived in that area AFTER the 9th Century. Before that they were in Central Asia as your "source" states.

And turks where known to arabs already in the 9th Century. So you think in the 9th Century they couldnt differ between greeks romans persians turks, when the turkic Migration started in the 10 th Century and constatiopel fell in the 15th Century???

Loooooooooool
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Ahahhhaaa. So arabs confused greeks,Romans, persians with turks who lived in khazakhstan, Turkmenistan khorasan as you stated???

Toooo Hilarius !!!!
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
OMG !!!!!!

]The seljuks arrived in that area AFTER the 9th Century. Before that they were in Central Asia as your "source" states.

And turks where known to arabs already in the 9th Century. So you think in the 9th Century they couldnt differ between greeks romans persians turks, when the turkic Migration started in the 10 th Century???

Loooooooooool

---

Yawn,…

In the wake of the Samanids (819-1005)

The Abbasids—the Arab-Muslim rulers of Bahgdad—were displaced by Turkic-speaking warriors who had been in Central Asia for more than a millennium

Among the most important of these overlapping dynasties were the Tahirids in Khorasan (820-72); the Saffarids in Sistan (867-903); and the Samanids (875-1005), originally at Bukhara (also cited as Bokhara).


Keep posting your smilies.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/pbox.php?url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2014/09/khorasanWV.jpg&w=1484&op=resize&opt=1&filter=antialias&t=20170517
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Samanids were iranics not turkics !!!!
Looool
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
loooool

First of all Samanids were iranics not turkics

secondly, why do you think Al Jahiz confused Khorasan in NORTHWESTERN Iran with persian in the rest of Iran ??`?

And this still leaves greeks and romans white.
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
Samanids were iranics not turkics !!!!
Looool

---

quote:

---

African and Middle Eastern populations shared the greatest number of alleles absent from all other populations (fig. S6B).

---

—Sarah A. Tishkoff,
The Genetic Structure and History of Africans and African Americans
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
From the book “God's black Prophets”:

When Christian Ethiopia reconquered Jewish Yemen in 520 CE, Jewish exiles sought assistance from the Byzantine ruler of Constantinople who turned them down on behalf of his co-religionists. On the other hand Chosroes, Zoroastrian king of Persia, took a different position. He said to the Jews: "This is the white skin against the black race. I am closer to you than to the Abyssinians." After their victory over 'the black race' the victory poem began: "We have crossed the waters to free Himyar (southern Arabia) from the tyranny of the blacks."

Sayf b. Dhû Yazan, a chief of the dominant Himayrite clan of Arabs, went to Chosroes (Khusrû), the king of Persia, for help. "He said: 'O King, ravens have taken possession of our country.' Chosroes asked, 'What ravens, Abyssinians or Sindhians?' 'Abyssinians,' he replied." "Ravens" meant black people, who were identified with Indians and Abyssinians in the minds of Arabs and Persians at that time.

And:

“When the Persian king (Chosroes) heard of this he sent Wahriz with 4,000 Persians and ordered him to kill every Abyssinian or child of an Abyssinian and an Arab woman, great or small, and not leave alive a single man with crisp curly hair.
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
No they were white.

Sasanian murals in Kuh i khwaja 400 AD, Iran:



Alexander sarcophargus showing Greeks fighting Persians, 325BC ( colours revealed by UV/Vis spectrometry





Wood painting in an achaemenid Tomb found in Turkey, Tatarli Tumulus, 400–500 BC (original coulours)



Sasanian embassy in India 450 AD ( Ajanta caves, India)



Alexander mosaic (100 BC)



Alexander and Roxane as Mars and Venus, persian solider to the left, 200 BC Pompeji



 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Sasanian Princes (300AD, Iran, Shahr e Gur)
]


Sasanian noble men 400 AD, Hajyabad, Iran



Sasanian bust of Khusrau found in Ctesiphon (this bust's beard and hair can be compared to the above mural painting)



Coptic textile showing Sasanians fighting Arabs and Ethiopians (600–700AD)



Achaemenid noble man



Sasanian bust found in Susa, Iran



Sasanian Vase (500 AD, Merv)



Tissaphernes, Achaemenid satrap

 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Pharnabazos, Achaemenid Satrap, 400 BC


Spithridates, Achaemenid Satrap 330 BC



Autophradates I, Achaemenid naval Commander


Baydad, first persian satrap in seleucid Iran


Sasanian King 400 AD


Sasanian bust


Head of a dying Persian, Italy 200 AD


Darius Vase 330 BC

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/95/53/3a/95533a4e0f760ca8daba190daa4731a7.jpg

Mosaic of a sasanian lady with braided Hair found in Iran


______________________________________

oversize pictures deleted,

lioness

[ 15. April 2018, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
From the book “God's black Prophets”:

When Christian Ethiopia reconquered Jewish Yemen in 520 CE, Jewish exiles sought assistance from the Byzantine ruler of Constantinople who turned them down on behalf of his co-religionists. On the other hand Chosroes, Zoroastrian king of Persia, took a different position. He said to the Jews: "This is the white skin against the black race. I am closer to you than to the Abyssinians[{B]." After their victory over 'the black race' the victory poem began: "We have crossed the waters to free Himyar (southern Arabia) from the tyranny of the blacks."

Sayf b. Dhû Yazan, a chief of the dominant Himayrite clan of Arabs, went to Chosroes (Khusrû), the king of Persia, for help. "He said: 'O King, ravens have taken possession of our country.' Chosroes asked, 'What ravens, Abyssinians or Sindhians?' 'Abyssinians,' he replied." "Ravens" meant black people, who were identified with Indians and Abyssinians in the minds of Arabs and Persians at that time.

And:

“When the Persian king (Chosroes) heard of this he sent Wahriz with 4,000 Persians and ordered him [B]to kill every Abyssinian or child of an Abyssinian and an Arab woman, great or small, and not leave alive a single man with crisp curly hair.

---

Well well well,



 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
From the book “God's black Prophets”:

When Christian Ethiopia reconquered Jewish Yemen in 520 CE, Jewish exiles sought assistance from the Byzantine ruler of Constantinople who turned them down on behalf of his co-religionists. On the other hand Chosroes, Zoroastrian king of Persia, took a different position. He said to the Jews: "This is the white skin against the black race. I am closer to you than to the Abyssinians." After their victory over 'the black race' the victory poem began: "We have crossed the waters to free Himyar (southern Arabia) from the tyranny of the blacks."

Sayf b. Dhû Yazan, a chief of the dominant Himayrite clan of Arabs, went to Chosroes (Khusrû), the king of Persia, for help. "He said: 'O King, ravens have taken possession of our country.' Chosroes asked, 'What ravens, Abyssinians or Sindhians?' 'Abyssinians,' he replied." "Ravens" meant black people, who were identified with Indians and Abyssinians in the minds of Arabs and Persians at that time.

And:

“When the Persian king (Chosroes) heard of this he sent Wahriz with 4,000 Persians and ordered him to kill every Abyssinian or child of an Abyssinian and an Arab woman, great or small, and not leave alive a single man with crisp curly hair.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 


After effect of colonization and post-colonization
of African resources and lifetime misery (except for
colluders).


See the sad tale of Zambia, Glencore, and Rüschlikon.

Stealing Africa - Why Poverty?
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DWNYemuiAOfU&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjdt_vyxLzaAhUxxVkKHar9A_IQtwIIIDAH&usg=AOvVaw1dtjItYHgSbGY4ZxJtu-wD

Even Players magazine had a Ghana article on
strategic resources and neo-colonialism in 1978. Black Collegian also ran a like article that
included all countries' resources and what
the industrials need them for.


But it's our fault we don't get paid
for our strategic resources, resources
industrial and post industrial economies
NEED to survive.

I wrote an article about it for our ASA
journal but never knew the health issues
and misery exposed in the linked video.
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
ahahahaaa

Im presenting you 20 (!!!!) pictures of persians on art created between 350 BC and 700 AD

and you are presenting me 1 picture of Elamites ????

look at their Headresses, they are Elamites

Please let my write with an academics. you dont have any education obviously
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
From the book “God's black Prophets”:

When Christian Ethiopia reconquered Jewish Yemen in 520 CE, Jewish exiles sought assistance from the Byzantine ruler of Constantinople who turned them down on behalf of his co-religionists. On the other hand Chosroes, Zoroastrian king of Persia, took a different position. He said to the Jews: "This is the white skin against the black race. I am closer to you than to the Abyssinians." After their victory over 'the black race' the victory poem began: "We have crossed the waters to free Himyar (southern Arabia) from the tyranny of the blacks."

Sayf b. Dhû Yazan, a chief of the dominant Himayrite clan of Arabs, went to Chosroes (Khusrû), the king of Persia, for help. "He said: 'O King, ravens have taken possession of our country.' Chosroes asked, 'What ravens, Abyssinians or Sindhians?' 'Abyssinians,' he replied." "Ravens" meant black people, who were identified with Indians and Abyssinians in the minds of Arabs and Persians at that time.

And:

“When the Persian king (Chosroes) heard of this he sent Wahriz with 4,000 Persians and ordered him to kill every Abyssinian or child of an Abyssinian and an Arab woman, great or small, and not leave alive a single man with crisp curly hair.

---

Yawn, …





 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
hahahahahaahh !!!!!!!

Those are not Persians but Elamites

Please someone with an education show him the difference. i cant right now. im just laughing too hard
I showed you Persians, why are you shwoing us Elamites??
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
hahahahahaahh !!!!!!!

Those are not Persians but Elamites

Please someone with an education show him the difference. i cant right now. im just laughing too hard
I showed you Persians, why are you shwoing us Elamites??

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
hahahahahaahh !!!!!!!

Those are not Persians but Elamites

Please someone with an education show him the difference. i cant right now. im just laughing too hard
I showed you Persians, why are you shwoing us Elamites??

---

Try this one:

Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.


Nahum 3:9 "Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength, and it was infinite"...
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
try this one:

Sasanian Princes in Shahr e Gur, Iran 300 AD


Sasanian noble men 400 AD, Hajyabad, Iran



Sasanian bust of Khusrau found in Ctesiphon (this bust's beard and hair can be compared to the above mural painting)



Coptic textile showing Sasanians fighting Arabs and Ethiopians (600–700AD)

“When the Persian king (Chosroes) heard of this he sent Wahriz with 4,000 Persians and ordered him to kill every Abyssinian or child of an Abyssinian and an Arab woman, great or small, and not leave alive a single man with crisp curly hair

This textile fits the text right?

 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
400 AD,?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
When the Persian king (Chosroes) heard of this he sent Wahriz with 4,000 Persians and ordered him to kill every Abyssinian or child of an Abyssinian and an Arab woman, great or small, and not leave alive a single man with crisp curly hair

---

Are you serious?

Nahum 3:9 "Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength, and it was infinite"


Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.


Nahum, Nineveh and Those Nasty Assyrians

He cleared the Delta of the Cushites (Ethiopians) in 667/666 BC and the Cushite ruler, Taharqa, fled to No-Amon.

http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2009/05/28/Nahum2c-Nineveh-and-Those-Nasty-Assyrians.aspx








Keep it going, we are getting there, smallsteps are giant leaps.
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
are serious here???

Im presenting you COLOURED pics of PERSIANS that show that achaemenids and sasanians where white.

but you keep posting pics of Non-Persian Elamites, Assyrians, Babylonians !!!
What is your Problem ?? Seriously??
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
BTW:

Here you have the sasanian WHITE King Khusrau and his fellow WHITE sasanians fighting BLACKS


 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
are serious here???

Im presenting you COLOURED pics of PERSIANS that show that achaemenids and sasanians where white.

but you keep posting pics of Non-Persian Elamites, Assyrians, Babylonians !!!
What is your Problem ?? Seriously??

---

I kept posting those on purpose, but you are slow. Within a few months you will catch up. What you are showing only testifies what I've been posting all along.

Anyway,

Keep it going, we are getting there, smallsteps are giant leaps.


Jesus Christ 300 A.d.Anoint your home, prayer room, business office or place of worship with the earliest artistic image of Christ as he teaches the Apostles "Last Supper" as portrayed in this fresco from the Catacombs of Domitilla, Rome in 300 A.D.




https://fineartamerica.com/featured/jesus-christ-300-ad-beehive-publishing.html


I am here to do the bigger work, Ish Gebor.
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
BTW:

Here you have the sasanian WHITE King Khusrau and his fellow WHITE sasanians fighting BLACKS

---

It only contributes to what I have been posting.





What I do is write algorithms and data maintenance, that is my educational background.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

Winged Sphinx, Darius palace



Darius I
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
hahahahaha.

these frescos became darker during the last 2 thousand yeas. thats normal

btw. all these figures show straight hair, thin lips and aquiline noses, and brown skin. so what??


But what about persians?
you claim that they (alongside greeks ans romans) were black. when i showed you that the Khusrau was in war with abyssinnians and that looked like that





Wood painting in an achaemenid Tomb found in Turkey, Tatarli Tumulus, 400–500 BC (original coulours)


 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Winged Sphinx, Darius palace



Darius I

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
BTW:

Here you have the sasanian WHITE King Khusrau and his fellow WHITE sasanians fighting BLACKS

http://warfare.ml/6-10/Coptic-Textile-Battle-Tissus.jpg

---

The message is subliminal.
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
ahahahaa

gain you showing babylonian art.

and excuse me. the relief is colourless looool

Persepolis was stongly inflenced by babylonian art

this is how sasanians treated blacks:

 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
and this are white Achaemenids gifhting white greeks.


 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
hahahahaha.
these frescos became darker during the last 2 thousand yeas. thats normal

---

It's a funny argument especially when post freshly restored (demolished) statues.

Those frescos are in the original state, they show distinction between lighter and darker colors. So that argument really doesn't help you at all.

This is why the pope has a black Mary and Jesus at the Cathedral.


“At that time also there appeared a certain man of magic power … if it be meet to call him a man, [whose name is Jesus], whom [certain] Greeks call a son of [a] God, but his disciples [call] the true prophet who is supposed to have raised dead persons and to have cured all diseases. Both his nature and his form were human, for he was a man of simple appearance, mature age, black-skinned (melagchrous), short growth, three cubits tall, hunchbacked, prognathous (lit. ‘with a long face [macroprosopos]), a long nose, eyebrows meeting above the nose, that the spectators could take fright, with scanty [curly] hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Nazaraeans, with an undeveloped beard. (*Halōsis, ii.174).”[4]  


Painting of Jesus and his disciples

http://www.pbs.org/empires/romans/empire/jesus.html
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
And this is an Ahaemenid persian tomb


 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
looool these statues are NOT demolished at all!!!

Do u even know the Alexander sarcophagus??? Probably not

BTW

THese are Sasanians found in IRAN !! 300 AD



Sasanian noble men 400 AD, Hajyabad, Iran


 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Here you can see VERY VERY close how Persians looked like.

THEY EVEN RECREATED THE DRAWING IN THE SHIELD WITH UV VIS SAPECTROMETRY.

Im an engineer I can explain to you what Spectroetry is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UaG1oMBFWg
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
Hmm, it still came afterwards what I have posted. And you yourself posted:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
"Here you have the sasanian WHITE King Khusrau and his fellow WHITE sasanians fighting BLACKS".

---

quote:

---

The cultural authorities in Turkey called the exhibition of ‘The Return of Colures’ a success, as for the first time the Achaemenid tomb chamber, one of the finest examples of the ancient Iranian art of wood painting that survived to the present day, was on show at Yapi Kredi Vedat Nedim Tör Museum.


After remaining intact for 2500 years, the Tatarli wooden paintings were nearly destroyed within the last forty years. Restoring this burial chamber to its former glory required fitting hundreds of pieces together, making new additions to the original material and using an artificial steel construction.

---

http://www.cais-soas.com/News/2010/december2010/04-12.htm
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
SO?

1) "Nearly destroyed"


2) Those colours were still slightly visible !!!

3) Alexander Sarcophagus TOTALLY NOT DESTROYED. the colours are still slightly visible
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UaG1oMBFWg
4)


5)


 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
^What you are posting is not helping your cause. Only in your mind it is helping you. In fact it confirms what I have been posting.


Keep it going.


The Polychromy of the so called Alexander Sarcophagus in the National Museum of Istanbul. Research, Documentation and Reconstruction (Vinzenz Brinkmann, Ulrike Koch-Brinkmann)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UaG1oMBFWg
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
No. All my Posts are proving that Persians were white (at least not black).

I am supported by SCIENCE.

You on the other hand are posting Pictures of Non-Persian ELamites, Babylonians, Assyrians.

Actually I am Very happy NOONE in the entire world who is to be taken seriously believes that GREEKS, ROMANS, PERSIANS were black.

But keep on dreaming, I support you
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
and the colours of the Alexander Sarcophagus were revealed by UV/VIS spectrometry.

Plus the original colours are still slightly visible.
Just read real science, not your fantasy scripts
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Just accept this:

The glorious Khusrau Anushirwan fighting Ethiopians and commanding to sadly not let any blacks alive ( He was a fucking asshole racist)

“When the Persian king (Chosroes) heard of this he sent Wahriz with 4,000 Persians and ordered him to kill every Abyssinian or child of an Abyssinian and an Arab woman, great or small, and not leave alive a single man with crisp curly hair.

 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
No. All my Posts are proving that Persians were white (at least not black).

I am supported by SCIENCE.

You on the other hand are posting Pictures of Non-Persian ELamites, Babylonians, Assyrians.

Actually I am Very happy NOONE in the entire world who is to be taken seriously believes that GREEKS, ROMANS, PERSIANS were black.

But keep on dreaming, I support you

---

SMH this here is terrible. You have to go to pictures, since you can't properly read English. I understand. Now you quickly derail the subject again, making up nonsense arguments that weren't mentions at all. And I am supplely dreaming? Learn to read English properly first, because it's a hurdle and language barrier.


You support science? Hmmm Are you sure? I have posted peer reviewed science and I've ignored it, with crazy pseudo remarks.
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
“When the Persian king (Chosroes) heard of this he sent Wahriz with 4,000 Persians and ordered him to kill every Abyssinian or child of an Abyssinian and an Arab woman, great or small, and not leave alive a single man with crisp curly hair.


Yeah pictures are soooo bad. They show you how someone looked like
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
Just accept this:

The glorious Khusrau Anushirwan fighting Ethiopians and commanding to sadly not let any blacks alive ( He was a fucking asshole racist)

“When the Persian king (Chosroes) heard of this he sent Wahriz with 4,000 Persians and ordered him to kill every Abyssinian or child of an Abyssinian and an Arab woman, great or small, and not leave alive a single man with crisp curly hair.

---

I already have responded to this. what part did you not understand?

All it does is support what I have posted. I have even cited Bible verses. It does not help you are at all. And you feel insulted when people call you a jackass?


Since you keep reposting, I will repost this for you as well.


Nahum 3:9 "Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength, and it was infinite"

Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.


Nahum, Nineveh and Those Nasty Assyrians

He cleared the Delta of the Cushites (Ethiopians) in 667/666 BC and the Cushite ruler, Taharqa, fled to No-Amon.

http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2009/05/28/Nahum2c-Nineveh-and-Those-Nasty-Assyrians.aspx





Keep it going, we are getting there, smallsteps are giant leaps.

These are beautiful days.



 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 


I Like you so much

Im so glad you were not present when Khusrau, this fucking racist , commanded to kill all black people in Ethiopia.

Im so glad the arabs finally crushed the saasanians and the Byzantines had some timne to chill
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

Winged Sphinx, Darius palace, coloured glazed tiles,

The Palace of Darius in Susa was a palace complex in Susa, Iran, a capital of the Achaemenid Empire.
The Achaemenid Empire ( c. 550–330 BC), also called the First Persian Empire, was an empire based in Western Asia, founded by Cyrus the Great

_______________________________

It is reasonable to assume the Persians of the first Persian empire had skin color like this
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:


I Like you so much

Im so glad you were not present when Khusrau, this fucking racist , commanded to kill all black people in Ethiopia.

Im so glad the arabs finally crushed the saasanians and the Byzantines had some timne to chill

---

quote:

---

which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).

---

-- Moorjani et al. 2011
The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews






 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Winged Sphinx, Darius palace, coloured glazed tiles,

The Palace of Darius in Susa was a palace complex in Susa, Iran, a capital of the Achaemenid Empire.
The Achaemenid Empire ( c. 550–330 BC), also called the First Persian Empire, was an empire based in Western Asia, founded by Cyrus the Great

_______________________________

It is reasonable to assume the Persians of the first Persian empire had skin color like this

---

It's not a reasonable assumption, it's a fact. The clown has confirmed that they have fought these people and tried to kill them off. The clown still doesn't get it. It's just terrible. All it does is support what we have been writing here on Egyptsearch for so long
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
thank you for your statement Lioness.

1) The persians when entering the Iranian Plateau from central Asia, met the dark skinned Elamites.
The indo european iranic tribes (medes, persians) encountered highly developed native cultures (Elamites, Assyrians) and eventually mixed with them.
2) Those were the achaemenid elites:
Pharnabazos, Achaemenid Satrap, 400 BC


Spithridates, Achaemenid Satrap 330 BC



Autophradates I, Achaemenid naval Commander


Baydad, first persian satrap in seleucid Iran

3) this is a typical sasanian lady braided hair , the typcial flaoting ribbons

4) The tomb in Tatarli Tumlus was destroyed but peices with the original colour were still visible.
5) the alexander Sarcoophagus is COMPLETELY intact and shows traces of the original colour. with the help of UV/Vis sepctrometry the colours weren completely revelead.
6) The mural in the Ajanata caves shows a sasanian Embassy. Still the ORIGINAL colours
Sasanian murals in Kuh i khwaja 400 AD, Iran:



Alexander sarcophargus showing Greeks fighting Persians, 325BC ( colours revealed by UV/Vis spectrometry



 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
thank you for your statement Lioness.

1) The persians when entering the Iranian Plateau from central Asia, met the dark skinned Elamites.
The indo european iranic tribes (medes, persians) encountered highly developed native cultures (Elamites, Assyrians) and eventually mixed with them.
2) Those were the achaemenid elites:
Pharnabazos, Achaemenid Satrap, 400 BC

---

Thank you as well for your contributions.







http://www.mesopotamia.co.uk/astronomer/story/sto_set.html





Have a nice day.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
[QB] thank you for your statement Lioness.

1) The persians when entering the Iranian Plateau from central Asia, met the dark skinned Elamites.
The indo european iranic tribes (medes, persians) encountered highly developed native cultures (Elamites, Assyrians) and eventually mixed with them.
2) Those were the achaemenid elites:
Pharnabazos, Achaemenid Satrap, 400 BC

---

PERSIANS AND MEDES, detail of the processional frieze on the east side of the terrace of the apadana palace, Persepolis, Iran

The Achaemenid Empire ( c. 550–330 BC) , the golden age of Persia

At this time we also see the curly hair prominent. Where is the proof that the Medes and Persians did not have this skin color prior to Elamites>



^ If Persians were this color at this time for whatever reason, that means much later Persians would have been due to later admixture from lighter skinned peoples coming in
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Yeah,
THis is the accepted theory about Indo European Migration. Accepted by all leading Scientists.
And taught EVERYWHERE in every University (emphasis on UNIVERSITY)




__________________________________________

images over sized for the forum have been deleted, please re-size

-lioness

[ 15. April 2018, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 

quote:

---

Where is the proof that the Medes and Persians did not have this skin color prior to Elamites

---

1) from their own art: 400-500 BC (remember tha colour were intact, bur faded much)


2) from their enemies art




3) From the fact that Persians, greeks, assyrians artificially culred their hairs and beards (btw on the relief you posted you see a LARGE portion of straight beard below rthe culred portion)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15526158
http://www.classics.upenn.edu/myth/php/tools/dictionary.php?regexp=HAIR.&method=standard
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
[QB]

quote:

---

Where is the proof that the Medes and Persians did not have this skin color prior to Elamites

---

1) from their own art: 400-500 BC (remember tha colour were intact, bur faded much)

---

Persian infantryman, Tatarli Tumulus, Lydian tomb, 570 BC

this is the original

http://www.cais-soas.com/News/2010/june2010/20-06.htm

______________________

The Achaemenid Empire ( c. 550–330 BC)

Alexander Mosaic,100 BC, Roman, (see previous post)
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Yes thank u.
as you can see no curly beard or hair and white arms and the hair is Dark brown (hair colour almost didnt fade so why should have the colour of the arms faded?)

Plus with UV/Vis Spectrometry its possible too reveal the true colours as each colour has a different wavelength (in nanometers).

on the alexander sarcophagus dating from 325 BCthe colours were also almost faded. but with this tool the colours were revealed

please watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UaG1oMBFWg
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
and also these coins date from the achmaemenid area, depictingf persian satraps who were DIRECTLY related to the achaemneid bloodline
Pharnabazos, Achaemenid Satrap, 400 BC


Spithridates, Achaemenid Satrap 330 BC



Autophradates I, Achaemenid naval Commander


Baydad, first persian satrap in seleucid Iran

 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
Yes thank u.
as you can see no curly beard

---

Darius, relief from the Central Relief of the Northern Stairs of the Apadana, Persepolis

that faded Lydian tomb art is trumped by art commissioned by the Persian Emperor himself Darius I
and numerous other reliefs at Persepolis
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
it shows a colourless guy with thin lips and artificially curled hair and beard.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15526158
http://www.classics.upenn.edu/myth/php/tools/dictionary.php?regexp=HAIR.&method=standard

why not trust colours of the persians?

the sasanians claimed direct relation to the achaeminds
Sasanian murals in Kuh i khwaja 400 AD, Iran:


Sasanian embassy in India 450 AD ( Ajanta caves, India)


sasanian proncess, Iran 300 Ad


Sasanian noble men 400 AD, Hajyabad, Iran


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
[QB] it shows a colourless guy with thin lips and artificially curled hair and beard.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15526158
http://www.classics.upenn.edu/myth/php/tools/dictionary.php?regexp=HAIR.&method=standard

why not trust colours of the persians?

the sasanians claimed direct relation to the achaeminds
Sasanian murals in Kuh i khwaja 400 AD, Iran:

---

I do, this is Persia 886 years earlier :


Winged Sphinx, Darius palace, coloured glazed tiles,
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
this is a sphinx. not a persian, not a elamites, not an assyrian.
Lets talk about human figures

The influence of babylonian art on persian art
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/babylonia-ii
do you think the persians were not influenced by the already native cultures?


indo european migration:


 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
btw
.

here you have your asssyrians with straigh and artificially curled hair:






 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
[QB] btw
.

here you have your asssyrians with straigh and artificially curled hair:

---

^^ these are modern sculptures, they don't count

_____________________________________________________________


,


Limestone statue of attendant god dedicated to Nabu by Adad-Nirari III and Sammuramat; inscription.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details/collection_image_gallery.aspx?assetId=203596001&objectId=367085&partId=1
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Yeah i dont doubt these staues.

But they show that they artificially curled their beard and hair.

or how is this even possible?


or this


 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
and we know not only the assyrians artificially curled their hair and beard, but also greeks, persians.
The influence of babylonian art on persian art
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/babylonia-ii

and a again. this is a coloured mural of an assyrian. i dont know if u would classifiy this guy to be black.


 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
or this.

look at the straight portions of the beards of the persian and the mede. thats gotta be artificially curled.
http://www.classics.upenn.edu/myth/php/tools/dictionary.php?regexp=HAIR.&method=standard
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15526158

 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 

 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
or this.

look at the straight portions of the beards of the persian and the mede. thats gotta be artificially curled.
http://www.classics.upenn.edu/myth/php/tools/dictionary.php?regexp=HAIR.&method=standard
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15526158

---

How do you know the straight portions are not artificially straightened?

This could be loose curls
Would guards be sitting for hours while somebody curled their hair and beards for hours?


Winged Sphinx, Darius palace, coloured glazed tiles,

So suppose the Persians of the first Persian empire had skin color liked that winged Sphinx and curly hair, most of them at Persepolis have very thin lips and these sharp curved noses, big full beards

It's hard to correlate all of these traits in one to modern populations.
They don't look like African or Europeans to me
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
1) i would not necessarily draw a conclusion from a sphinx to a human.
2) Here about the influence of Babylonien Art on persian art.
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/babylonia-ii
4) Here about greeks, persians, Assyrians Curling their Hair
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15526158


5) does this Look Like a natural beard to you? He has straight hair too.


[IMG]https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/assyrian-art-relief-11245107.jpg[/IMG
6) here is a coloured mural of an Assyrians human ( Not Sphinx)

9)Here are persians with true persian blood without artficially curled hair
Pharnabazos, Achaemenid Satrap, 400 BC


Spithridates, Achaemenid Satrap 330 BC



Autophradates I, Achaemenid naval Commander


Baydad, first persian satrap in seleucid Iran

 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:



6) here is a coloured mural of an Assyrians human ( Not Sphinx)

---

You're doing a lot of cherry picking now and switching between Assyrians and Persians

same source here,

Fresco (Mid 8th BCE) From Achmar (Tel Barsib/Kaz Salmanassar)


Both images, black curly hair, you're in denial
Also in the Frieze of the Archers, scholars are not sure those are Elamites not Persians solely based on the headband
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Im switching to Show you COLOURED prove of HUMANS. Please also Show me coloured Art of persians (Not Elamites) or Assyrians depicting Humans.

1) an Assyrian Human with straight hair and artficially curled beard. SKIN NOT COLOURED


2) here is COLOURED mural of an Assyrian human ( Not Sphinx, Not black)



3)Here are persians with true persian blood without artficially curled hair
Pharnabazos, Achaemenid Satrap, 400 BC
Not COLOURED


Spithridates, Achaemenid Satrap 330 BC



Autophradates I, Achaemenid naval Commander


Baydad, first persian satrap in seleucid Iran
4) Here is a COLOURED mural of an persian nobleman and a persian horseman. The noblemsn has No no curled beard


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

Fresco (Mid 8th BCE) From Achmar (Tel Barsib/Kaz Salmanassar)

people with curly hair exist
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Btw. In the shield of that persian you can See the famous Scene originally depicted in Persepolis. Dark beards, light faces. The Colours are revealed by UV Vis spectrometry.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Karueein University introduced in Africa 859 CE.
Sankore University established in West Africa 13th Cent.
Marien Ngouabi University of Congo founded 1971.

This is not a rhetorical question Nevermore.
Why would it take >900 years for Congo to have a university?


.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
@ISH GABOR

quote:

---

I was never a refugee. So I don't know what the hell you are talking about. Oh wait, you're a uneducated

---

I just told you i hold a masters degree from an european technical University. What education do u have?
Maybe you dont know the word "University".
Its a "school" for adults. Introduced in Europe in 1089 AD.Introduced in congo [sic]: maybe the next Millenium.

So on which continent did you Go to school, If U did?

So If you are No refugee, Then what are you Doing in a non-african Country?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
or this.

look at the straight portions of the beards of the persian and the mede. thats gotta be artificially curled.
http://www.classics.upenn.edu/myth/php/tools/dictionary.php?regexp=HAIR.&method=standard
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15526158

---

Hmmm when you pull curly hair or comb it out it stretches and the tip becomes straightened.

Your artificial claim was just another desperate attempt to alter facts. And how are going to post studies like these, when you beraly understand English. That makes no sense / it’s nonsense!



 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
Btw. In the shield of that persian you can See the famous Scene originally depicted in Persepolis. Dark beards, light faces. The Colours are revealed by UV Vis spectrometry.

---

quote:

---

The period following the fall of the Akkadian Empire is traditionally seen as a period of darkness and anarchy by historians. While the perceived darkness is due to the rarity of Gutian artefacts and text material, the anarchy is an impression formed by the historians gained from the Sumerian and Babylonian historical and literary compositions describing Gutian rule. In fact these compositions were mostly compiled later than the Gutian period itself. Later in this chapter we shall attempt to answer the question whether the Gutian period was really so dark and fruitless, and to interpret the related evidence.


The Gutian Arrival

Some historical allusions in the texts of the Akkadian period indicate that early on there was Gutian infiltration into Mesopotamian lowlands. One of these allusions is to the probable presence of Gutians as soldiers in the Akkadian army.1 The archives of Adab from the Akkadian period mention Gutians who received rations,2 some of them described as ‘travellers’3 and others term residents, that the local governor had to use a Gutian interpreter to communicate with them.

[...]

This acquaintance with Mesopotamian practices as well as other pertinent circumstances helped the Gutians overthrow the Akkadian Dynasty and seize power in the land.

[...]


Whatever the background, the Gutians finally dominated the land of Akkad and “carried off the kingship of Sumer to the mountains/foreign land.”17 This metaphor clearly implies that the fate of the land and its sovereignty passed into the hands of a foreigner, specifically the great Gutian king.18 The Gutians were probably supported by other peoples and groups in the region, perhaps even the Sumerians,19 who looked for liberation from the Akkadian yoke. The neighbouring peoples had together formed an alliance against Narām-Sîn years before, and so it would have been natural to do the same this time. Among the probable allies one may expect the Elamites who were always ready to benefit from any weakness of their western neighbour, the Lullubians, the Hurrians and other mountain peoples and groups who had raided Akkadian territories earlier or who had suffered from campaigns of the kings of Agade.(20) It appears that the Gutians did not (or perhaps they were not able to) spread their hegemony over the whole land of Sumer and Akkad. This is suggested by the presence of the influential Second Lagaš Dynasty and the Uruk Dynasty at the end of the period of Gutian rule. The inscriptions of Ur-Namma refer to at least three independent political entities in Sumer at that period: the Uruk city-state with its ruler Utu‹eg̃al, Lagaš, and the region under the Gutians. There is a suggestion that the two royal names Dudu and Šudurul, mentioned in the SKL as kings of Agade, were in fact rulers of the region centred on the city of Agade (21) during the Gutian rule.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Karueein University introduced in Africa 859 CE.
Sankore University established in West Africa 13th Cent.
Marien Ngouabi University of Congo founded 1971.

This is not a rhetorical question Nevermore.
Why would it take >900 years for Congo to have a university?


.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
@ISH GABOR

quote:

---

I was never a refugee. So I don't know what the hell you are talking about. Oh wait, you're a uneducated

---

I just told you i hold a masters degree from an european technical University. What education do u have?
Maybe you dont know the word "University".
Its a "school" for adults. Introduced in Europe in 1089 AD.Introduced in congo [sic]: maybe the next Millenium.

So on which continent did you Go to school, If U did?

So If you are No refugee, Then what are you Doing in a non-african Country?

---

---

Nice,





http://www.africafederation.net/Kongo_History.htm
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
@Ish Gebor
You are funny
I hold a masters degree from a european technical University. What IS your education Background??? But you dont dare to tell right

1) you did Not Show me a COLOURED piece of art of an ancient persian HUMAN , neither Achaemenid nor Sasanian

2) i showed U COLOURED art of ancient persian HUMAN, both achamaenid and sasanian showing them NOT to be black AND showing them with both straight and curly Hair

3) its a FACT persians, greeks, Assyrians artficially curled their Hair

4) could U please Show me ANY coloured Achaemenid or sasanian Art depicting a persian NOBLEMAN( not Elamite)






 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 










Persepolis relief sculpture, modern Iranians, a Persian soldier from the Alexander mosaic
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:







Persepolis relief sculpture, modern Iranians, a Persian soldier from the Alexander mosaic

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:

BTW Darius from the mosaic has straight hair. Just Trust the coloured art depicting persians ( not Elamites)

---

why trust a Roman mosaic made 286 years after the death of Darius over art commissioned by Darius himself when he was alive?
That makes no sense. You are just practicing confirmation bias and cherry picking.
They appear closer to middle eastern than European looking and would probably not fit into "black" or "white" categories. Why not just leave it at that?




 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
1) Excuse me, you yourself Provided the mosaic in your Last Post to prove Something
2) the relief of Darius you posted is COLOURLESS and He has totalyy stylized beard. You See that right?
3) instead let's Look at this COLOURED
piece from an ACHAEMENID Tomb 400 BC, from an ACHAEMENID with ACHAMAENID clothes AND HAT.



I dont know whats so hard to understand Here.

4) Then Alexander sarcophargus was Made 325 BC (!!!!!) and it Shows achamaenid persians. What Else you want.

Conclusion: there is not a Single coloured evidence that shows achamaenids royals to be black. Instead ACHAMAENIDS painted THEMSELVES as shown above and CONTEMPORARIES painted(!!!!!) Them also light skinned as you can See from the Alexander sarcophargus and the Darius Vase.

Those are facts, you Provide guesses.
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
you can put the information back up if you want but everybody knows now I'm not allowing name calling in the thread
If I see it, the whole post is deleted

--lioness

[ 16. April 2018, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
@Ish Gebor


2) i showed U COLOURED art of ancient persian HUMAN, both achamaenid and sasanian showing them NOT to be black AND showing them with both straight and curly Hair

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
@Ish Gebor

3) its a FACT persians, greeks, Assyrians artficially curled their Hair

---

More of your alternative facts. smh By whom was that claimed? Some folks who have no curly hair?

quote:

---

which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).

---

-- Moorjani et al. 2011
The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews








 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
@Ish Gebor
4) could U please Show me ANY coloured Achaemenid or sasanian Art depicting a persian NOBLEMAN( not Elamite)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:

BTW Darius from the mosaic has straight hair. Just Trust the coloured art depicting persians ( not Elamites)

---

why trust a Roman mosaic made 286 years after the death of Darius over art commissioned by Darius himself when he was alive?
That makes no sense. You are just practicing confirmation bias and cherry picking.
They appear closer to middle eastern than European looking and would probably not fit into "black" or "white" categories. Why not just leave it at that?

https://images2.imgbox.com/df/9e/ueCr2Ad0_o.jpg

---

Tell, why was the thread on "Black Neolithic Persians of the Iranians" deleted? Right before this crap is being propagated?

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009469;p=2


SUCH ACT IS COWARDICE AND LOW.
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Can anyone explain to me why ISH GEBOR, is Posting Photos of Elamites?

Someone please explain him the Difference btw. elamites and PERSIANS.

And teach him also how to Count. Remember his 930AD = 9th Century adventure?

He obviously didnt cover this in his "University program" :
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
you can put the information back up if you want but everybody knows now I'm not allowing name calling in the thread
If I see it, the whole post is deleted

--lioness

[ 16. April 2018, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:

And teach him also how to Count. Remember his 930AD = 9th Century adventure?

He obviously didnt cover this in his "University program" :

---

quote:

---

The strongest of these tribes was the Seljuks. In the wake of the Samanids (819-1005)---Persians who set up a local dynasty in Central Asia within the Abbasid Empire--- arose to two Turkish dynasties: the Ghaznavids, based in Khorasan in present-day Turkmenistan, and the Karakhanids from present-day Kazakhstan.

[…]

The Abbasids—the Arab-Muslim rulers of Bahgdad—were displaced by Turkic-speaking warriors who had been in Central Asia for more than a millennium. The Abbasid caliphs began enlisting these people as slave warriors as early as the ninth century. The Turkish horsemen, known as gazis , were organized into tribal bands to defend the frontiers of the caliphate, often against their own kinsmen.


Shortly thereafter the real power of the Abbasid caliphs began to wane; eventually they became religious figureheads while the warrior slaves ruled. As the power of the Abbasid caliphs diminished, a series of independent and indigenous dynasties rose in various parts of Iran, some with considerable influence and power. Among the most important of these overlapping dynasties were the Tahirids in Khorasan (820-72); the Saffarids in Sistan (867-903); and the Samanids (875-1005), originally at Bukhara (also cited as Bokhara).

---

http://factsanddetails.com/asian/cat65/sub424/entry-5258.html#chapter-3
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
You are HILARIOUS again and again

This Guy with the spear is ELAMITE.

characterized by his headwear

I know its hard for you to accept
Elamites where very prominent in the ancient persian Empire. But they were not persians, thus the distinction between ELAMITES and PERSIANS
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
You are HILARIOUS again and again

This Guy with the spear is ELAMITE.

characterized by his headwear

I know its hard for you to accept
Elamites where very prominent in the ancient persian Empire. But they were not persians, thus the distinction between ELAMITES and PERSIANS

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
] @Ish Gebor
1) you did Not Show me a COLOURED piece of art of an ancient persian HUMAN , neither Achaemenid nor Sasanian

---

In fact I did, and your dumbass just admitted to that.
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
You know the Difference btw persians and elamites? NO!

I Tell you:

Elamites= natives to southwest Iran
Persians= foreigners
Elamites spoke elamite, a language Isolate
Persians spoke old persian, an Indo Europeans language

you are Welcome
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:

Elamites where very prominent in the ancient persian Empire. But they were not persians, thus the distinction between ELAMITES and PERSIANS

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
You know the Difference btw persians and elamites? NO!

I Tell you:

Elamites= natives to southwest Iran
Persians= foreigners
Elamites spoke elamite, a language Isolate
Persians spoke old persian, an Indo Europeans language

you are Welcome

---

Great. It was you who started this, not me. So I don't see what you are trying to argue about. As I said, your logical thinking skills are a bit off (to put it nicely).


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=012702;p=2#000098


Nowhere did I claim anything about these people, ever.
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
i know you dont understand.

Here is the explanation.

You are constantly posting art depicting ELAMITES and providing them as a proof for ancient persians' skin colour.

I asked for coloured art that show PERSIANS.

AGAIN you are posting pictures of ELAMITES.

I on the other hand am posting COLOURED Pictures of PERSIANS.

SEE ?


 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Karueein University introduced in Africa 859 CE.
Sankore University established in West Africa 13th Cent.
Marien Ngouabi University of Congo founded 1971.

This is not a rhetorical question Nevermore.
Why would it take >900 years for Congo to have a university?

West Africans are in Oxfordland academically kicking
natives all in they ass. Refer to published stats.

.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
@ISH GABOR

quote:

---

I was never a refugee. So I don't know what the hell you are talking about. Oh wait, you're a uneducated

---

I just told you i hold a masters degree from an european technical University. What education do u have?
Maybe you dont know the word "University".
Its a "school" for adults. Introduced in Europe in 1089 AD.Introduced in congo [sic]: maybe the next Millenium.

So on which continent did you Go to school, If U did?

So If you are No refugee, Then what are you Doing in a non-african Country?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
i know you dont understand.

Here is the explanation.

You are constantly posting art depicting ELAMITES and providing them as a proof for ancient persians' skin colour.

I asked for coloured art that show PERSIANS.

AGAIN you are posting pictures of ELAMITES.

I on the other hand am posting COLOURED Pictures of PERSIANS.

SEE ?

---

I did so because in multiple sources they are under the denominator of being Persian. This is obviously a mistake, nevertheless it's a fact that it happens.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Persian_warriors_from_Berlin_Museum.jpg

http://etc.ancient.eu/interviews/interview-the-glittering-world-of-the-sasanians/


http://herproductions.net/blog


Touraj Daryaee is the Maseeh Chair in Persian Studies & Culture and the Director of the Dr. Samuel M. Jordan Center for Persian Studies and Culture at the University of California, Irvine.

https://tourajdaryaee.com
 

---

Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
 
Yes they are showing Elamites as Persians.

Elamites were Natives to southwest iran.

They had already a highly developed culture, when barbarian persians entered the iranian plateau.

Indo European persians assimilated with native Elamites. Something great deveopled.
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
BTW

Ancient greeks referred to BLACK PEOPLE as

1) Western Ethiopians (African blacks with curly hair)
2) Eastern Ethipians (Indian blacks with straight hair)

So why are persians, romans, not called ETHIOPIANS by the greeks?

And why did the greeks differ between themselves persians, romans and blacks when they themselves were black???

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Tell, why was the thread on "Black Neolithic Persians of the Iranians" deleted? Right before this crap is being propagated?

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009469;p=2


SUCH ACT IS COWARDICE AND LOW. [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
And ancient greeks also were not black.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Too bad the Kenny G pics are not forthcoming this time. Lioness' white-people-can-have-curly-hair-too campaigns usually include a copy.

For those who don't get the inside joke, the Lioness white-people-can-have-curly-hair-too campaign is real. She keeps a bunch of Kenny G pics on deck at all times. Bet she has some in her backpocket right now. She usually starts with some pics of curly jews and Iranians, but might pull out the heavy artillery (Kenny G pics) if you don't back down. Luckily for me, she didn't post the Kenny G pics the last time we got into it. Fully aware of the risks inherent in doing so, I posted the afros on the battlefield palette in a thread where lioness was active, and suggested they were African. I barely got away in one piece. But I'll never forget she could have used her fatality on me if she wanted to.

---

stop trolling




^^ I don't consider this person to be "white" and I have stated repeatedly that the below Medes and Persians don't appear, in my opinion to be classified as "Black" or "white" and I also showed the winged sphinx from the Palace of Darius which was an argument that the Persians at that time may have had brown skin




Now after you stop trolling and begging to see Kenny G, I dare you to answer the question as to whether or not you see the Persians in this relief to be African types

(people watch now as he goes in to his purposeful over complicated answer to hide behind muddy water)
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Now after you stop trolling and begging to see Kenny G, I dare you to answer the question as to whether you see the Persians in this relief to be African types

---

Why ask me when you can consult the facts? Facts say Iranians have the most dilution of Neanderthal (see all the green symbols below), which is academic code for African ancestry.



Note the "Iran_recent" sample (Medieval period, IIRC) is apparently just as African as the Raqafet Natufian sample.

EDIT:

quote:

---

GD1150 (I1955): 18-30 year-old male from levels A/D. This individual is a clear genetic outlier and
was analyzed separately from the other individuals pending radiocarbon dating, which confirmed
that it was not from the Neolithic period but of recent origin (1430-1485 calCE (330±30 BP, Beta-
432801); it is thus labeled Iran_recent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^ as I predicted he doesn't answer the question

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Now after you stop trolling and begging to see Kenny G, I dare you to answer the question as to whether you see the Persians in this relief to be African types

---

Why ask me when you can consult the facts? Facts say Iranians have the most dilution of Neanderthal (see all the green symbols below), which is academic code for African ancestry.



Note the "Iran_recent" sample (Medieval period, IIRC) is apparently just as African as the Raqafet Natufian sample.

EDIT:

quote:

---

GD1150 (I1955): 18-30 year-old male from levels A/D. This individual is a clear genetic outlier and
was analyzed separately from the other individuals pending radiocarbon dating, which confirmed
that it was not from the Neolithic period but of recent origin (1430-1485 calCE (330±30 BP, Beta-
432801); it is thus labeled Iran_recent.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Why ask me when you can consult the facts? Facts say Iranians have the most dilution of Neanderthal (see all the green symbols below), which is academic code for African ancestry.



Note the "Iran_recent" sample (Medieval period, IIRC) is apparently just as African as the Raqafet Natufian sample.

EDIT:

quote:

---

GD1150 (I1955): 18-30 year-old male from levels A/D. This individual is a clear genetic outlier and
was analyzed separately from the other individuals pending radiocarbon dating, which confirmed
that it was not from the Neolithic period but of recent origin (1430-1485 calCE (330±30 BP, Beta-
432801); it is thus labeled Iran_recent.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
Well, it needs a conversion factor. A recent estimate of an average 1.5% Neanderthal ancestry in Han Chinese might be a good representative of the proportion of Neanderthal in 0% Basal Eurasian populations. So that would suggest that the Medieval Iranian is maybe around half a percent more African than her putative Steppe ancestors.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Elmaestro:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
The Human Skeletal Remains from Hotu Cave, Iran
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3143835

---

Here for the sake of pushing scholarship on ES. Being that later studies shy away from mentioning any anthropological similarities between samples of these regions and Africa.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kg44ReX8fc3MFV8lhIeutaZYvZfNGGgo/view?usp=sharing

^Download article here

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Yes. One major reason why those new E1bs in Eurasia are important is because they show that the African uniparentals are starting to show a better correlation with Basal Eurasian. So, for instance, some people were saying that Basal Eurasian can't be African because the genomes that have it generally don't have African uniparentals. This was always a bogus argument, because no one would say the paucity of Y-DNA G in modern Europe means EEF ancestry wasn't passed on to modern Europeans. So I always knew it was a bogus argument. But now the evidence is coming along, which is always better than just knowing it's true without having direct evidence.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
So now lack of 1.5 to 2.1 percent Neanderthal = African

---

Not sure what you're asking precisely. But Eurasians started out with at least 4.4% Neanderthal. See the 4.4% in Ust-Ishim below (he is the best sample we have right now that we can use as a proxy for what original Eurasians were like, before more recent OOA migrations):


https://www.nature.com/articles/nature17993

The figures you're using of 2% and 1.5% apply only to modern Eurasians, not to ancient Eurasians (see the percentages in the table above). So, if you want a good starting point from which to calculate the amount of African ancestry in Eurasians, you would start with 4.4% Neanderthal, not with 1.5% or 2%.
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
@Swenet

Only a quick and dirty estimate.

Your definition of anyone without Neanderthal ancestry as 'African' is not one I am using here, naturally.

Your evidence that Bronze Age Semitic speakers carried significant amounts of recent Sub-Saharan ancestry?

There is significant recent Sub-Saharan ancestry in southern Iran, but it appears to be fairly negligible elsewhere, and I don't detect any in Iran_recent (been playing around modelling with the new genomes).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Elite Diasporan:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Yes. One major reason why those new E1bs in Eurasia are important is because they show that the African uniparentals are starting to show a better correlation with Basal Eurasian. So, for instance, some people were saying that Basal Eurasian can't be African because the genomes that have it generally don't have African uniparentals. This was always a bogus argument, because no one would say the paucity of Y-DNA G in modern Europe means EEF ancestry wasn't passed on to modern Europeans. So I always knew it was a bogus argument. But now the evidence is coming along, which is always better than just knowing it's true without having direct evidence.

---

Not only that I also heard(correct me) that those Neolithic Iranians had more Basel Eurasian than the Natufians and so I believe we are getting closer than before especially the finding of e1b in this part of the world.

---

Yes. More Basal Eurasian in them is also reflected in the skeletal data. Based on what little skeletal data I have seen, Neolithic Iranians look more like predynastic Egyptians than Natufians do. Natufians are much more diverse and only some Natufians (e.g. Shuqbah Natufians) look like predynastic Egyptians, with others looking more like pre-Natufian Levantines (also diverse) and some looking like they have substantial Sub-Saharan ancestry. Below is a comparison I created in 2015. Neolithic Iranian left, dynastic Egyptian right:



This resemblance to Egyptians indicates this Iranian individual's African ancestry was primarily Basal Eurasian. Most Natufians don't look like that (although some do), which is consistent with Raqefet Natufians having less Basal Eurasian than Laz's Iran Neolithic genomes.
 

---

Posted by capra (Member # 22737) on :
 
Ah yeah, wasn't thinking of Armenians, but that odd result could reflect something in Semites. Got anything quantifiable?
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
@Capra

See L3b and L3i. Though the location (SSA vs NA) of the latter hg during the early/mid holocene is more uncertain.

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
[/QB]

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2014/10/23/010629

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
there we go with the Kenny G strawman again, Kenny G was Phoenician not Persian

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
Yemen dude, not representative (but thanks for the link). Honestly I don't have time right now though, so I will grant you the SSA in Bronze Age Semites.

Said SSA has not made it into the Medieval Ganj Dareh or Hasanlu Tepe Iron Age samples AFAICT. OTOH one of the Shahr-i-Sokhta Bronze Age samples (I8724) did often get 0.2-0.6% Dinka in nMonte models I ran.

---

quote:

---

Disjoint sets of populations can be modeled as WHG+Mota or EHG+Mota mixtures. For
WHG+Mota, the populations that can be modeled adequately are from the Levant, Anatolia, and
Neolithic Europe. For EHG+Mota, the populations that can be modeled adequately are from Iran and
the Eurasian steppe down to the Early/Middle Bronze Age (Steppe_EMBA) populations. The
EHG+Mota modeling is adequate in the steppe continuing through the time of the Poltavka culture of
the Middle Bronze Age 11 , since as we show in Supplementary Information section 7, the Near Eastern
migration into the steppe from Iran-related populations. The ~14,000 year old Upper Paleolithic
hunter-gatherer from Switzerland 12 can also be modeled as WHG+Mota, but has no significant
evidence of Basal Eurasian ancestry (α=-0.9±5.1%), consistent with its close relationship to WHG 12
(Fig. 1b). Scandinavian hunter-gatherers (SHG) from Motala 1,7,11 are an example of a population that
cannot be modeled as either WHG+Mota (p=2.27E-17), or EHG+Mota (p=2.11E-08), but can be
modeled as WHG+EHG+Mota (p=0.247). This population has both WHG and EHG ancestry 7 . By
using both WHG and EHG as source populations, we are able to model it, and infer that its Basal
Eurasian ancestry is 5.1±3.3% which is not significantly different than zero.

---

Not that I'm generally interested in those tools. I rather go by what the good 'ole fashioned data says. Fst says distance to Yoruba decreases over time in the entire Middle East, with one major West Eurasian Fst distance decrease coinciding with the Bronze Age (i.e. Semitic speakers).

As far as the Yemeni mtDNAs, Yemenis speak Semitic languages and derive a large portion of their ancestry from the Bronze Age Fertile Crescent. While I can see that direct Yemeni contacts with SSA complicate things, calling Yemenis irrelevant to Bronze Age Semitic speakers is a blatant reach. They're certainly more Semitic than most other living Middle Eastern populations.
 

---

Posted by capra (Member # 22737) on :
 
Eh, Fst alone doesn't cut it. And yeah, direct contacts with East Africa are kind of important here! If the SSA in Shahr-i-Sokhta is real, which I'm not guaranteeing, there is no need for it to go through Bronze Age Semites (Arabian traders aside), especially since the actual samples I have from the Bronze Age Levant *don't* have any SSA in the same models.

There's no evidence of a relationship between Mota and Basal Eurasian. But I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me, so let's wait for further evidence.
 

---

Posted by Elmaestro (Member # 22566) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
Eh, Fst alone doesn't cut it. And yeah, direct contacts with East Africa are kind of important here! If the SSA in Shahr-i-Sokhta is real, which I'm not guaranteeing, there is no need for it to go through Bronze Age Semites (Arabian traders aside), especially since the actual samples I have from the Bronze Age Levant *don't* have any SSA in the same models.

There's no evidence of a relationship between Mota and Basal Eurasian. But I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me, so let's wait for further evidence.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Yes. More Basal Eurasian in them is also reflected in the skeletal data. Based on what little skeletal data I have seen, Neolithic Iranians look more like predynastic Egyptians than Natufians do. Natufians are much more diverse and only some Natufians (e.g. Shuqbah Natufians) look like predynastic Egyptians, with others looking more like pre-Natufian Levantines (also diverse) and some looking like they have substantial Sub-Saharan ancestry. Below is a comparison I created in 2015. Neolithic Iranian left, dynastic Egyptian right:



This resemblance to Egyptians indicates this Iranian individual's African ancestry was primarily Basal Eurasian. Most Natufians don't look like that (although some do), which is consistent with Raqefet Natufians having less Basal Eurasian than Laz's Iran Neolithic genomes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
Eh, Fst alone doesn't cut it. And yeah, direct contacts with East Africa are kind of important here! If the SSA in Shahr-i-Sokhta is real, which I'm not guaranteeing, there is no need for it to go through Bronze Age Semites (Arabian traders aside), especially since the actual samples I have from the Bronze Age Levant *don't* have any SSA in the same models.

---

The underlying implication of your "irrelevant" comment is that it would ok for me to highlight traces of Semitic ancestry in these Middle Easterners.



What is the difference between dilution of Semitic ancestry in Yemen due to East African and Arabian influences, and in the north due to East African, EEF and IE influences. Why the double standard? And, if not Yemenis, what is an acceptable Middle Eastern sample to identify traces of Semitic in?
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Elite Diasporan:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Yes. More Basal Eurasian in them is also reflected in the skeletal data. Based on what little skeletal data I have seen, Neolithic Iranians look more like predynastic Egyptians than Natufians do. Natufians are much more diverse and only some Natufians (e.g. Shuqbah Natufians) look like predynastic Egyptians, with others looking more like pre-Natufian Levantines (also diverse) and some looking like they have substantial Sub-Saharan ancestry. Below is a comparison I created in 2015. Neolithic Iranian left, dynastic Egyptian right:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Bpf4h9hbJLU/V3zYSCegbOI/AAAAAAAABLk/QJzIIP_lAWgnRLPpb7VhyQ7jzau1xASOQCK4B/s1600/Shanidar%2Bcave%2B%252B%2BMemphis%2Bdynastic.jpg

This resemblance to Egyptians indicates this Iranian individual's African ancestry was primarily Basal Eurasian. Most Natufians don't look like that (although some do), which is consistent with Raqefet Natufians having less Basal Eurasian than Laz's Iran Neolithic genomes.

---

So wouldn't this basically mean that the Natufians observed by Laz are recent to the area since Basel Eurasian has been in Iranian remains much longer and that area is much further from Africa? This along with the skeletal date you posted(of Iranians being more similar to Predynastic Egyptians than Natufians) actually hurts team Euros arguments badly

---

quote:

---

Quite ironically it is not the Natufians who are the closest to the African reference population (Yoruba) but the CHG, Iran-N and Levant-N groups. In fact the Natufians are the most distant ones after the WHG population. However this is tricky because the affinity to Yoruba may also be caused by the "ghost" Basal Eurasian population, claimed first of all by Lazaridis 2014, which would be a remnant of the Out of Africa Migration (not strictly African but close enough and impossible to discern from true African admixture in most analyses).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Elmaestro:
which datasets are you working with?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
@Oshun

You can find the graph in Lazaridis et al 2014. But the paper isn't admitting that the decrease in Neanderthal is due to African ancestry, so there is not much in it if that's what you're looking for.

---

Nah, just wanted to see how much Basal Eurasian is in each sample, thanks
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Too bad the Kenny G pics are not forthcoming this time. Lioness' white-people-can-have-curly-hair-too campaigns usually include a copy.

For those who don't get the inside joke, the Lioness white-people-can-have-curly-hair-too campaign is real. She keeps a bunch of Kenny G pics on deck at all times. Bet she has some in her backpocket right now. She usually starts with some pics of curly jews and Iranians, but might pull out the heavy artillery (Kenny G pics) if you don't back down. Luckily for me, she didn't post the Kenny G pics the last time we got into it. Fully aware of the risks inherent in doing so, I posted the afros on the battlefield palette in a thread where lioness was active, and suggested they were African. I barely got away in one piece. But I'll never forget she could have used her fatality on me if she wanted to.

---

stop trolling




^^ I don't consider this person to be "white" and I have stated repeatedly that the below Medes and Persians don't appear, in my opinion to be classified as "Black" or "white" and I also showed the winged sphinx from the Palace of Darius which was an argument that the Persians at that time may have had brown skin




Now after you stop trolling and begging to see Kenny G, I dare you to answer the question as to whether or not you see the Persians in this relief to be African types

(people watch now as he goes in to his purposeful over complicated answer to hide behind muddy water)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
In an academic forum you cant call the other person slow and stupid. That's weak and low frequency
I'm not allowing insults in the thread, I've already stated this

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
So now lack of 1.5 to 2.1 percent Neanderthal = African

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sudaniya:
People (from Forumbiodiversity) like Semitic Duwa argued that Basal Eurasian is a significant component of ancient Egyptian ancestry. Now that it seems that Basal Eurasian is African, what implications does this present for the genetics of the Abusir mummies?

Also, if the paternal profile of these mummies is African [E1b1b]... wouldn't that make the Abusir mummies half African?

Elias has been triumphant, despite the presence of E1b1b in some of the samples.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
African migrations out of Africa over the last 60-80,000 years right up to and after the Neolithic are basis of many cultures and societies in the "Near East", Asia and Europe. This is the part most racists are trying to deny and cover up.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
@Capra

See L3b and L3i. Though the location (SSA vs NA) of the latter hg during the early/mid holocene is more uncertain.

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:


http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2014/10/23/010629

---

[/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
African migrations out of Africa over the last 60-80,000 years right up to and after the Neolithic are basis of many cultures and societies in the "Near East", Asia and Europe. This is the part most racists are trying to deny and cover up.

---

The part that certain racists, i.e. you, are trying to invent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
Swenet, you are inventing this entire "dilution" line, kindly cut it out. We all know where Yemen is and why that's relevant. I don't give two shits what you think my "colours" are and I am not interested in your bullshit. If you have a decent hypothesis about 'recent' African origin of Basal Eurasian that would be interesting, otherwise I'm out.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
African migrations out of Africa over the last 60-80,000 years right up to and after the Neolithic are basis of many cultures and societies in the "Near East", Asia and Europe. This is the part most racists are trying to deny and cover up.

---

The part that certain racists, i.e. you, are trying to invent.

---

What part am I inventing? Are you saying that racists don't deny that Africans had a substantial role in the development of almost everything "human", ie. civilization, language, math, art, hunting, gathering, agriculture, religion, spirituality, mysticism, minerology and so forth.

Seriously?
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Not sure exactly what you guys talking about
but considering proposed age and birthplace
of Semitic language I think Jordan Beduin
are your best bet Semitic 'people', --
whatever 'Semitic people' could possibly
mean in a biological sense seems like
poppycock to me.


Kitchen, Ehret, Assefa, Mulligan (2009)
A 5400 West Semitic
E 4650 South Semitic
B 4450 Central Semitic
C 4050 Ugaritic-Hebrew-Aramaic

G 2800 Ethiosemitic
F 2050 Modern South Semitic


Note D, Arabic, is missing o/t map.
 

---

Posted by DD'eDeN (Member # 21966) on :
 
Doug M. mentioned 'black-headed" Sumerians, that is the usual interpretation. I think it actually meant "soil-directed" aka farmers as opposed to nomadic herders and hunters-gatherers.

On Iran, Yemen & Swahili; mashua is a boat used in Yemen, built by Iranian-descended Kuzmari, called mashua (non-Arabic, similar to Bantu terms for boat).

I don't have enough data to verify these claims, but consider it plausible.
---

from Sci.lang:

> On Thursday, April 5, 2018 at 2:27:28 AM UTC-4, Helmut Richter wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > The simplest and most plausible explanation is that in the local
> > language Kumzari this kind of boat has always been called "mashua" and
> > the word has been exported to East Africa. Note that the word is
> > always written in quotation marks in the Arabic text which indicates
> > that it is not regarded as an Arabic word. Kumzar is not far away from
> > the museum. Note the name of the person who restored the boat: Abdulla
> > Bin Ali Al-Kumzari. They are proud of being part of the Kumzari
> > minority, and I have not heard of any conflicts with the central power
> > in the main part of Oman.
>
> A Bantu-speaking community in Oman?

No. A Kumzari-speaking community in an Omanian exclave at the strait of
Hormuz with only by few thousands of speakers. Thus an Iranian language
spoken 30 miles away from Persia – remarkable but not miraculous. They
brought the word to East Africa, where it was borrowed into Swahili.

The Kumzari may have been too few to have travelled to East Africa in
noticeable numbers. In this case, it is possible that Arabic-speaking
mainland Omanis, for instance from Muscat, have borrowed the word into
their dialect before exporting it to East Africa.

--
 

---

Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
And that goes for ALL Judiasm--Islam-Christian religion. I see now not only was "Jesus" made up but also Mohammed and the Jew/Semitic faith. Why? These rites and customs existed long BEFORE these "personalities" were said to exist. Data(Doron Behar) shows these were migrating Africans. The clue was the existence of Islamic paraphernalia in European grave long BEFORE the supposed birth of Mohammed. We also see the dating getting skewed with the "Islamic" people in Madagascar. Doron Behar sourced that the Chinese Jews(apart from other natives) carry traces "Near East?" ancestry(really Africa when you look at the data). Sources cited.

All this points to the "Islam", Judaism etc existed long before these founding personalities supposedly existed. Neolithics took their customs with them as they the expanded out to even China. Keep in mind the Chinese donkey has an African origin of less than 5000years!!!!!! Yes, Really!!!.


" whatever 'Semitic people' could possibly mean in a biological sense seems like poppycock to me."
 

---

Posted by capra (Member # 22737) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
African migrations out of Africa over the last 60-80,000 years right up to and after the Neolithic are basis of many cultures and societies in the "Near East", Asia and Europe. This is the part most racists are trying to deny and cover up.

---

The part that certain racists, i.e. you, are trying to invent.

---

What part am I inventing? Are you saying that racists don't deny that Africans had a substantial role in the development of almost everything "human", ie. civilization, language, math, art, hunting, gathering, agriculture, religion, spirituality, mysticism, minerology and so forth.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
African migrations out of Africa over the last 60-80,000 years right up to and after the Neolithic are basis of many cultures and societies in the "Near East", Asia and Europe. This is the part most racists are trying to deny and cover up.

---

The part that certain racists, i.e. you, are trying to invent.

---

What part am I inventing? Are you saying that racists don't deny that Africans had a substantial role in the development of almost everything "human", ie. civilization, language, math, art, hunting, gathering, agriculture, religion, spirituality, mysticism, minerology and so forth.

---

Uh, no, try reading the sentence again. It was just a drive-by, though, a simple return insult will suffice, you don't need to write your usual full-length essay.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] Man! They should pay me for this shyte. I told you so...again. As I said many times. I am 1000% correct!!!! There is no way in hell the Abusirs are back-migrated Europeans ...or Turks

Quote:
"Classical haplotypes in eastern Arabia tend to have the Arabian/Indian designation, whereas those in western
Arabia tend to have the Benin designation.18,21 The Arabian/Indian haplotype has been hypothesized to have
originated in either east Saudi Arabia or India.5 Although our samples include only one predicted instance of the
Arabian/Indian haplotype, the occurrence of this haplotype in the Luhya in Kenya and its clustering with the predominant
haplotype found in Kenya and Uganda are consistent with the hypothesis that the Arabian/Indian
haplotype originated in Africa and had an overseas migration route from eastern Africa to eastern Arabia and
India.13,19 In contrast, the absence of the Benin haplotype in the Luhya in Kenya and the Baganda in Uganda provides
evidence against an overseas migration route from eastern Africa to western Arabia. Instead, the presence of
the Benin haplotype in western Arabia is consistent with an African origin and an overland migration route through
northeast Africa"


Geography ...and genes don't lie. We need to re-write history. lol!


DNATribes was correct....from Africa then Arabia to the Harrapan Valley. [/Q]

---

 

---

Posted by Elmaestro (Member # 22566) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Not sure exactly what you guys talking about
but considering proposed age and birthplace
of Semitic language I think Jordan Beduin
are your best bet Semitic 'people', --
whatever 'Semitic people' could possibly
mean in a biological sense seems like
poppycock to me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Are you saying that racists don't deny that Africans had a substantial role in the development of almost everything "human", ie. civilization, language, math, art, hunting, gathering, agriculture, religion, spirituality, mysticism, minerology and so forth.

Seriously? [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Elamites/Sumerians were more related to populations of aboriginal blacks from the Persian gulf moving out of Arabia with connections to Africa.

---

what connections to Africa did the Elamites have?



Elamites


Elamite Cup from Chogha Mish



Elamite silver beaker of a ruler
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
indeed xyyman your work is intelligible and contains some facts

edited to say something nice

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
yes, I was referring to your habit of reaching to make everything come from Africa.

edited for less troll

---

quote:

---

Four sequences were classified as subhaplogroup L3h2
(Fig. 2b). Interestingly, these four Yemeni samples
formed a clade with one Somali and two Yemeni samples
gathered from GenBank (posterior probability 5 0.99).
Notably, two sequences previously published by Soares
et al. (2012) (one Yemeni and one Somali) were identical
to two of our sequences. Our phylogenetic analysis pro-
duced date estimates of the Yemeni clade of 6.9 kya
(95% HPD: 2.9–11.7 kya; Table 1), while the subha-
plogroup, as a whole, contained sequences from Yemen
and the Horn of Africa that dated to 17.9 kya (95%
HPD: 9.9–26.9 kya; Table 1).

---

quote:

---

Four haplotypes (n 5 5) were
classified as subhaplogroup L3b1a1a. Two haplotypes
(n 5 3) formed a sister clade to the rest of L3b1a1a,
while the remaining two were intermixed with subSaharan
African and Near Eastern sequences (Fig. 2b).
Our phylogenetic analysis estimated the age of the Yemeni
clade in this subhaplogroup to be 2.0 kya (95% HPD:
0.2–4.4 kya; Table 1).

---

This 2ky date fits with the expansion of the Semitic linguistic subfamily known as MSA (Modern South Arabian) shortly after these languages arrived in southern Arabia from the north.



They don't get a lot of attention in the blogs (for obvious reasons [the "recent Sub-Saharan/Zanj admixture" lie to explain away features doesn't work on them]). But some may have heard of one Modern South Arabian speaking population in particular (Soqotri people). Their settlement of a small island in between Arabia and Africa supposedly helped to preserve the looks and genetics of their MSA speaking ancestors 2kya. Here are some of the phenotypes common in this population:





Lastly, here is another interesting L lineage found in the Middle East, that's potentially Semitic. It's not fully characterized in the paper below, but today it's known as L3d4a:

quote:

---

One Tunisian
shares an ancestor at around 6,549 ± 2,883 years
ago with one Syrian inside L3d1’2’3 haplogroup.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
[/QB]

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2014/10/23/010629

---

[/QB]

---

 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
Right up your alley gramps. Since I know you're following the conversation re:South Asia closely. See the clade the Pakistani (33) forms with the Kuwaiti (32). The other Pakistani (31) is interesting as well, but I'm done for now. I'm leaving you 31 as homework to figure out how he relates to what we've discussed before. 31's GenBank ID is EU092932.

quote:

---

Most of these North African sequences share a recent
ancestry with sequences observed in other parts of
Africa, in the Holocene period (Table 3). This seems to
point to a recent introduction of these lineages in North
Africa from the original locations in sub-Saharan and
East Africa. Namely, one Moroccan and one Libyan
sequences belong to sub-haplogroup L3b1b, together
with two West African sequences from Burkina, with a
coalescence age of 9,926 ± 2,555 years. Three Egyptian,
four Tunisian, one Libyan and one Moroccan sequences
share a most recent common ancestor of 13,537 ± 1,058
years old with seven West African, two South African,
six Americans (most probably African-descents), two
East Africans, two Central Africans, five Near Eastern
and two South Asians, being affiliated in haplogroup
L3b1a.

---

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875235/
 

---

Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
 
So these (relatively) recent waves of Africans into west Asia are offering evidence that the Basal Eurasian in these groups was not a detection of very distant African affinities but more recent influences?
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
Yes. Because of these L and E1b lineages we know that the dilution of Neanderthal ancestry in West Eurasia (and in South Asia) was caused by several waves populations with Basal Eurasian and Sub-Saharan ancestry. The Semitic people were the last large wave of Africans to cause population turnover in West Eurasia (mainly the Middle East). Based on how old the sample is, that Ukrainian E1b carrier from Verteba Cave (see below) may owe his Y-DNA to Semitic people. Although that's still speculation right now.


 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Please update if downlevel.



4000-3600 BCE corresponds to
East Semitic and precedes
West Semitic.

Arabic is the missing D not on Fig 1.
They aren't clear whether it's its own
major arm, a South Semitic branch, or
a Central Semitic one. Rather than
wager they weasled. In the supplement
its dated no earlier than 750 BCE


Oh. Almost forgot.
Akkad is Mesopotamia.
The first African language in AME is Akkadian.
Akkadians absorbed Sumer and had influence in
the ancient region of Bahrein and Oman.


Oh Cèsaire ... but not your way
"Since Akkad, since Elam, since Sumer "
 

---

Posted by Fourty2Tribes (Member # 21799) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
And ancient greeks also were not black.
SURE, there were blacks in greece but they were ethnically not greeks.
Maybe Blacks also were the Natives of some parts of greece before the greeks arrived.

As We know people migrate and the native people dont Always profit from it

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
indeed xyyman your work is intelligible and contains some facts

edited to say something nice

---

 

---

Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Btw I don’t do bars and never had. Don’t understand the social need for bars. In college life I got more pussy and friends than I needed. Also I have been called the intimidator in the past. I don’t need to belong.

Regardless…… to your point. When you can disprove my point feel free to post instead of throwing a tantrum.

As I said. You no longer “control this”. When some of us can fully use and manipulate these software ..more of your lies will be exposed. We all know that FREQUENCY based analysis is absolute nonsense. The researchers knows this, YOU know. The whole premise is absolutely irrational. Because it is based upon complete isolation then re-expansion which is impossible and the uniparental markers confirms this. I don’t expect clusters-F like Oshun to get that but I know YOU know that. The researchers know that. But we can look at this in either of 2 ways. Delusional denial on your part or intentional deception. So I don’t need to PRETEND like I won. I know I won. I know what I am saying and posting is correct. All lines of evidence prove me correct. I am in the scientific field and these researchers are definitely in some sort of collusion.

It is not what they include but what they DON’T include in their sampling plan is a dead giveaway. Also what they Don't say.

Hit me up……
 

---

Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Here are TWO simple lines of evidence. Oshun? Thoughts?

Can anyone explain this chart? Notice secondary lines going from YRI/Mandenka etc to Europe. Notice also same secondary lines going from SSA to IVC peoples. Then also to Cambodia. Thoughts Capra? Did I crack skulls again in that bar? SMH! Lol! Hey man you can fool some on this site but not me brother. I am way ahead of you. Ask Dr Pickrell…he knows. Lol!



Here is another example how these researchers lie. The label the chart Yoruba Admixture but “African” below. (Just as they did with the Abusir) . YRI are not the only “African” neither are Mbuti!!! Tanzanians are also Africans as is Kenyans etc




How do you think these PN2 got to Turkmenistan 4000years ago? A sI said these were African men fucgking and having babies. That is how it works. YOU know that, don’t you? No uniparental marker is more African than Y-PN2. They even brought their survival trait to endure the malaria infected regions like the IVC.



 

---

Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Source of the chart?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Please update if downlevel.




Oh. Almost forgot.
Akkad is Mesopotamia.
T
Oh Cèsaire ... but not your way
"Since Akkad, since Elam, since Sumer "

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
we no longer listen to the BS from Europeans. we can do our own analysis and research. YOU people can continue lying to your selves and the "Negros" out there.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by capra:
yes, I was referring to your habit of reaching to make everything come from Africa.

edited for less troll

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
we no longer listen to the BS from Europeans. we can do our own analysis and research. YOU people can continue lying to your selves and the "Negros" out there.

---

this labeling of a people as liars is not allowed in the forum

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Bottom line Persia has always been the homeland of what we now call "Aryans". And this homeland has included aboriginal black populations like "Elamites" and Sumerians or literally "black heads". Persia was the last of the great empires in Iran(derived from Aryan). Persia was much more influenced by Indo-European horse raiders like the Scythians. Elamites/Sumerians were more related to populations of aboriginal blacks from the Persian gulf moving out of Arabia with connections to Africa. Sumer was much older than Persia. Persia proper didn't come about until after 1000 BC. And some would argue that the timeline of Sumer is artificially propped up to be older than Ancient Kmt..... The term "Aryan" is primarily a reference to the lighter skinned horse warriors of later Persia starting with the Parthians and then the Sassanians, and it is these Indo-Aryan Eurasians from which modern Iran derives its name.

And the bigger picture is that African migrations out of Africa over the last 60-80,000 years right up to and after the Neolithic are basis of many cultures and societies in the "Near East", Asia and Europe. This is the part most racists are trying to deny and cover up.

Most of the new studies and papers are confirming this so there is really nothing for any mythical "afrocentrics" to be silenced about if anybody is actually paying attention. If anything what African scholars have been saying for many years is turning out to be correct.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Elamites/Sumerians were more related to populations of aboriginal blacks from the Persian gulf moving out of Arabia with connections to Africa.

---

what connections to Africa did the Elamites have?


https://i.imgbox.com/FfvNiyev.png
Elamites

https://images2.imgbox.com/12/2b/TVwiWyo5_o.png
Elamite Cup from Chogha Mish


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/17/38/f2/1738f24f43e47103bac70ede030ab355--rd-millennium-ancient-persian.jpg
Elamite silver beaker of a ruler

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nevermore:
Yes they are showing Elamites as Persians.

Elamites were Natives to southwest iran.

They had already a highly developed culture, when barbarian persians entered the iranian plateau.

Indo European persians assimilated with native Elamites. Something great deveopled.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Right up your alley gramps. Since I know you're following the conversation re:South Asia closely. See the clade the Pakistani (33) forms with the Kuwaiti (32). The other Pakistani (31) is interesting as well, but I'm done for now. I'm leaving you 31 as homework to figure out how he relates to what we've discussed before. 31's GenBank ID is EU092932.

quote:

---

Most of these North African sequences share a recent
ancestry with sequences observed in other parts of
Africa, in the Holocene period (Table 3). This seems to
point to a recent introduction of these lineages in North
Africa from the original locations in sub-Saharan and
East Africa. Namely, one Moroccan and one Libyan
sequences belong to sub-haplogroup L3b1b, together
with two West African sequences from Burkina, with a
coalescence age of 9,926 ± 2,555 years. Three Egyptian,
four Tunisian, one Libyan and one Moroccan sequences
share a most recent common ancestor of 13,537 ± 1,058
years old with seven West African, two South African,
six Americans (most probably African-descents), two
East Africans, two Central Africans, five Near Eastern
and two South Asians, being affiliated in haplogroup
L3b1a.

---

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875235/

---

quote:

---

(5.) The Aryans are of Asiatic origin, and constitute a variety of the Eurafrican: species,• the physical characters of their skeletons are different from those of the Eurafricans.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oshun:
Back to Basal Eurasian, was Basal Eurasian higher in northern Africa than outside Africa? Or is Basal Eurasian measured by a lack of Neanderthal?

---

quote:

---

A couple of months ago on the Eurogenes blog, I mused about how much real Basal Eurasian is likely contained in the "Basal-rich" component in Dave's Basal K7 test. Matt, a very nice guy and frequent poster over there, responded:

quote:

---

@Mike, I've tried to do a few basic things on the Fst table for the components for Basal Rich K7 to work out how much BEu is in the Basal Rich component.

Put up a few screenshots on Imgur if you want to follow along.
First step, take the Fst table from BRK7, then use PCoA to transform into a set of dimensions for which the squared Euclidean distance captures the Fst matrix: https://imgur.com/oJt2SAp and https://imgur.com/ha5Y2cG

The dimensions that are output look like: https://imgur.com/89wXq1Q

Next step, I take the raw Fst distances from the original matrix and use them as variables; I use the Distance from Sub-Saharan as Variable 1, and I use the differences between relatedness to the other components (except Basal Rich itself) to construct a Variable 2, "Asymmetry" as a rough measure of relative relatedness between the other populations, where Asymmetry 0 indicates equal relatedness: (There are maybe some better ways I could've done Asymmetry, but the way I did seemed to work out OK): https://imgur.com/uB0Tifx

Then I produce a regression equation, which should let me estimate the position in these dimensions of a range of populations with different levels of drift that satisfy the Basal Eurasian criteria of equidistant relationship with other Eurasians: https://imgur.com/uB0Tifx

Then produce some simulated samples to go on it: (intuitively, they all fit on a line with Sub-Saharan, drifted away in the main dimension accounting for Eurasian vs African drift): https://imgur.com/ZDbgdrd

At the point, just doing manual tinkering, it seems like to get a population that has similar levels of overall drift to Villabruna and ANE and sits close to them in a phylogenetic tree, the best sim is for Basal-Rich to be about 20% Basal from between the lower drift Basal Eurasians and 80% hypothetical Middle East HG: https://imgur.com/oiGc570

Other solutions can be found to "make" Basal-rich from the simulated Basal populations, but these would all send the simulated "UHG" further away from Villabruna / ANE. If you have very high levels of BEu in Basal-rich, using these simulations, then the UHG has to have extremely high levels of drift away from other Eurasians and to be much more "West Eurasian" than VB or ANE is, in order to compensate. A low drift Basal population and a relatively typical West Eurasian population seems more intuitive.

Not sure if this method is all totally sound, but that's my best guess for Basal-rich component based purely on the component Fst and fitting using Fst PCoA - 20% Basal and 80% of UHG. That's extremely low compared to the lit though, I know. Poss some populations with extreme levels of BEu beyond Anatolia_Neolithic are not so well captured? Anatolia_Neolithic estimated with about 25% Basal Eurasian in Lazaridis 2016.

---

Using Matt's 20% estimate, I multiplied the Natufian's ~74% Basal-rich ancestry by .20, bringing the actual Basal Eurasian ancestry in Natufians down to ~15%. The rest of the ancestry would obviously be UHG (or otherwise WHG-related).

But this paper used LBK, so I just tried doing the same thing with the LBK average in the spreadsheet. It's ~50% Basal-rich, which brings LBK down to ~10% Basal Eurasian, which is in stunning concordance with the 9% estimate of this new paper. Suffice it to say, I'm very fucking impressed with Matt, whatever the true amount of BE ancestry ultimately turns out to be.

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So ....Basal Eurasian is only in 15% in Natufians? Or is their response to suppose that this Basal component was very distant (to which you guys are supposing the opposite?) Where did a figure of 74% to start?
 

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Posted by capra (Member # 22737) on :
 
Basal-rich is an ADMIXTURE component that the proprietor of Eurogenes created in an attempt to isolate Basal Eurasian. What he ended up with didn't seem to be pure BE but rather some mix of BE and ancestry distantly related to WHG in who-knows-what proportion. Due to lack of good samples estimates of the actual amount of Basal Eurasian in any given case vary wildly.

So the 74% comes from an ADMIXTURE run attempting to work out the relative proportions of Basal Eurasian in different modern and ancient samples, and has all the usual pitfalls. It's not based on an ancient Basal Eurasian sample or anything like that.

The lower-end numbers seem plausible to me, for the reasons Matt states, but I'm no expert.
 

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Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
 
So are you saying a plausible range could be 15-40 percent BE?
 

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Posted by capra (Member # 22737) on :
 
Your guess is as good as mine.
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
From wiki:
Archaeology
Around two to three million years ago, Lake Turkana was larger and the area more fertile, making it a center for early hominids. Richard Leakey led numerous anthropological excavations in the area, which yielded many important discoveries of hominin remains. The two-million-year-old Skull 1470 was found in 1972. It was originally thought to be Homo habilis, but some anthropologists have assigned it to a new species, Homo rudolfensis, named after the lake (previously known as Lake Rudolf). In 1984, the Turkana Boy, a nearly complete skeleton of a Homo erectus boy was discovered. More recently, a 3,500,000-year-old skull was discovered there, named Kenyanthropus platyops, which means "The Flat-Faced Man of Kenya".…. edit. wrong date in wiki

The African Great Lakes (Swahili: Maziwa Makuu) are a series of lakes constituting the part of the Rift Valley lakes in and around the East African Rift. They include Lake Victoria, the third-largest fresh water lake in the world by area, and Lake Tanganyika, the world's second-largest freshwater lake by volume and depth.[1] Collectively, they contain 31,000 km3 (7400 cu mi) of water, which is more than either Lake Baikal or the North American Great Lakes. This total constitutes about 25% of the planet's unfrozen surface fresh water.

The large rift lakes of Africa are the ancient home of great biodiversity; 10% of the world's fish species live there.

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
[Q] ^ Haven't read it as yet.

--

Here is what Sergi said ..quote:
-----------
http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1678/first-afro-centric-mediterranean-sergi

Sergi prophesized this in 1901: “THE FUTURE WILL ENABLE US TO SEE THESE QUESTIONS MORE CLEARLY. G. SERGI.

ROME, Feoruary, 1901.
“

====
THE MEDITERRANEAN RACE
Preface
WHEN this little book was first published in an Italian edition in 1895, and in a German edition in 1897, I was still unable to obtain many anthropological data needed to complete tha picture of the primitive inhabitants of Europe. In the English edition the book is less incomplete, richer in anthropological and ethnological documents, and hence more conclusive; it also contains replies to various objections which have been brought forward. This English edition, therefore, is not so much a translation of a work already published as a new book, both in form and arrangement

The conclusions I have sought to maintain are the following :- +

(1.) The primitive populations of Europe, after Homo Neandertkalensis, originated in Africa; these constituted the entire population of Neolithic times.

(2.) The basin of the Mediterranean was the chief centre of movement whence the African migrations reached the centre and the north of Europe.

(3.) From the great African stock were formed three varieties, in accordance with differing telluric and geographic conditions: one,.,peculiarly African, remaining in the continent where it originated; another, .the Mediterranean, which occupied the basin of that sea; and a third, the Nordtic:, which reached the north of Europe. These three varieties are the three great branches of one species, which I call Eurafrican, because it occupied, and still occupies, a large portion of the two continents of Africa and Europe.

(4) These three human varieties have nothing in common with the so-called Aryan races; it is an error to maintain that the Germans and the Scandinavians, blond dolichocephals or long-heads (of the Reihengraber and Viking types), are Aryans; they . are Eurafricans of the Nordic variety.

(5.) The Aryans are of Asiatic origin, and constitute a variety of the EurAsiaticEDIT: species,• the physical characters of their skeletons are different from those of the Eurafricans.

(6.) The primitive civilisation of the Eurafricans is Afro-Mediterranean, becoming eventually AfroEuropean.

(7.) The Mycenrean civilisation had its origin in Asia, and was transformed by diffusion in the Mediterranean.

(8.) The two classic civilisations, Greek and Latin; were not Aryan, but Mediterranean. The Aryans were savages when they invaded Europe: they destroyed in part the superior civilisation of the Neolithic populations, and could not have created the Greco-Latin civilization

(9.) In the course of the Aryan invasions the languages of the Eurafrican species in Europe were transformed in Italy, Greece, and elsewhere, Celtic, German, Slavonic, etc., being genuine branches of the Aryan tongue; in other cases the Aryan languages underwent a transformation, preserving some elements of the conquered tongues, as in the NeoCeltic of Wales. Some of these conclusions no longer arouse the same opposition as when I first brought them forward. The arguments meeting with most resistance are those tending to overthrow the ancient conception of an Aryan civilisation.

THE FUTURE WILL ENABLE US TO SEE THESE QUESTIONS MORE CLEARLY. G. SERGI.

ROME, Feoruary, 1901.

I supposed that it was the ancestors of the Libyans, Iberians, Egyptians, and Pelasgians who had peopled the various regions of the Mediterranean, including Asia Minor, and then also southern Russia. But I also supposed-and the supposition has now been confirmed by discoveries in Egypt-that the Egyptians were a branch of the Libyans, and thus I extended the name of Libyan to all the African populations of northern Africa, from Egypt to Morocco, including those of the Sahara.
In the Italian edition of this work I had placed the centre of origin and diffusion of this stock in East Africa in the region of the Great Lakes, near the sources of the Nile, and including Somaliland.

In North Africa and Sahara also very numerous flint arrow-heads and fragments of worked flint have been found, a certain proof of the existence of a large population.! The idea has thus arisen that Sahara rather than Eastern Africa was the original home of the populations which have occupied the Mediterranean basin and Hamitic Africa, or Africa north of the Sudan’s

Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1678/first-afro-centric-mediterranean-sergi#ixzz5D36ESvh8

Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1678/first-afro-centric-mediterranean-sergi#ixzz5D35Ensqy


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Going through my post and discussion on ESR I was informed that the source of the Nile is …Rwanda!!! Remember Rwanda(not Wakanda) and the Hutus and Tutsi. Kakasoids vs ….??? Same geographic region of Malawi_Hora-8200bp and Luxmanda-3100!!! [/Q]

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

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Originally posted by capra:
yes, I was referring to your habit of reaching to make everything come from Africa.

edited for less troll

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What of this summed did not have origin in Africa:

"human", ie. civilization, language, math, art, hunting, gathering, agriculture, religion, spirituality, mysticism, mineralogy"

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

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Originally posted by capra:
yes, I was referring to your habit of reaching to make everything come from Africa.

edited for less troll

---

What of this summed did not have origin in Africa:

"human", ie. civilization, language, math, art, hunting, gathering, agriculture, religion, spirituality, mysticism, mineralogy"

---

All of it. Just as the first cave men and women were Africans just as the original stone age family was also African as the first stone age was in Africa.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oshun:

quote:

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The genomic data from this period is important because the people of Abusir at this time would have been primarily Egyptian.

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How do you know that? We've already discussed at length that the author admit to large scale migrations in northern Egypt. And why would this genetic data prove an African origin when those hapologroups are found older outside of Africa?

In my opinion... Afrocentrism is in for one hell of a ride trying to claim northern Egypt, which showed signs of cultural influences by Asiatics in the predynastic. I think that the kingdoms that made the dynastic era were culturally African and probably black, but I don't think everyone (especially in northern Egypt) would be considered black today, no.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Baalberith:
Ase, I just want to know what makes you so certain that there were a difference in physical appearance between Ancient Upper Egyptians and Lower Egyptians, same way it is today? Given my information on the 2017 analysis of Abusir burial site, it seems that they only selected three mummified remains from the burial site.

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quote:

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Also, you state that Lower Egypt shows cultural signs with the Levant, historically this seems to be the case, as the Nile Valley itself heavily influenced the Levant, so the fact that the Levant would have influenced the Egyptians especially those in the North, not just culturally but genetically should not be surprising.

---

quote:

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But what I really fail to understand is how did this make them racially distinct from their Southern counterparts? I thought that the Asian backflows wouldn't even effect Eastern Africans racially, especially during the Mesolithic and Neolithic.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
@oshun
Ahaaa. OK.
Does your statement also apply to the other direction?
I mean afrocentrist claims that the original greeks and Romans were black? Instead of black Immigrants into white greek and roman culture?
Just Like today in Europe, where you have hundreds of thousands of black Immigrants. Sure they are portrayed in todays art, but they are not europeans. Maybe in 1000 years some afrocentrists will claim, that 2018 Europe was a black continent, Just because few Blacks are today present in contemporaty art.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ase:
Limb proportions aren't really what people use to figure out what race a person is. How many people you know get stopped by police because they got tropical limbs?
If we're discussing race, then I don't regard that. And if fairer complexions began from 12k and 5.5k BCE thats more than enough time for many of the inhabitants to have had a lighter complexion by 3k BCE. That's about 2,500 years at least. Lower Egyptian crania would've been closer to Europeans than Ethiopians in the shape of their face, and likely would've been among the first in Africa to be lighter in complexion due to immigration. So while some of them could pass for Black, more than likely Lower Egyptians would've (generally) been along the fringes of what people would consider Black.

---

quote:

---

Also, you state that Lower Egyptian's crania was similar to European populations than Ethiopians, via phenotype, again given how situated the Levant and better yet Lower Egypt is geographically in a arid environment, while there Southerner counterparts at in a tropical environment, how exactly does them having similar crania like Europeans, as some former 19th century and 20th century Egyptologists have claimed, alright so be it. But still given the fact that various Mesolithic Middle Easterner and even African populations were and are phenotypically distinct from one another I still fail to see your position on Lower Egyptians's and Levantine "intermixture".

---

quote:

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Abstract

Divergent natural selection caused by differences in solar exposure has resulted in distinctive variations in skin color between human populations. The derived light skin color allele of the SLC24A5 gene, A111T, predominates in populations of Western Eurasian ancestry. To gain insight into when and where this mutation arose, we defined common haplotypes in the genomic region around SLC24A5 across diverse human populations and deduced phylogenetic relationships between them. Virtually all chromosomes carrying the A111T allele share a single 78-kb haplotype that we call C11, indicating that all instances of this mutation in human populations share a common origin. The C11 haplotype was most likely created by a crossover between two haplotypes, followed by the A111T mutation. The two parental precursor haplotypes are found from East Asia to the Americas but are nearly absent in Africa. The distributions of C11 and its parental haplotypes make it most likelythat these two last steps occurred between the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent, with the A111T mutation occurring after the split between the ancestors of Europeans and East Asians.

---

quote:

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Too late, ones like Clyde, Troll Patrol (Ish Gebor), XyYTHater (XyyMan),Tukuler,TheReal, Habsburg, and many others on here already do. They already claim the Ancient Greeks & Romans particularly the Emporers were Black, that the Celts were Black, all the European Royalty & nobility were Black, Charlemagne was Black, Alexander The Great was Black, William The Conqueror was Black, the Vikings were Black, the Franks were Black, that all though the Germanics were White all their leaders were Black, that Europe at one time was all Black, then the evil albino devil (they believe Whites are albinos) came in invaded and genocided all the indigenous Blacks LOl. They hate White people and want to strip Whites of any history, accomplishments, heritage, identity, or any homeland to call our own. Heck Clyde [QUOTE]

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Baalberith:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ase:
[qb] No, limb proportions are supposed to help infer genetic relationship and proximity. But if people that are say Adamanese can be Black but are gentically closer to Asians than Africans there is no "genetic" relationship that grounds race.

Never stated race was anything but a socially constructed argument, but I see your point.

I don't want to teach or insist on people to accept irrelevant data to race. I don't subscribe to race being a valid genetic construct, therefore I feel it is important to not be selective in when I express that point of view.

Alright, fair enough.

[QUOTE]Also, you state that Lower Egyptian's crania was similar to European populations than Ethiopians, via phenotype, again given how situated the Levant and better yet Lower Egypt is geographically in a arid environment, while there Southerner counterparts at in a tropical environment, how exactly does them having similar crania like Europeans, as some former 19th century and 20th century Egyptologists have claimed, alright so be it. But still given the fact that various Mesolithic Middle Easterner and even African populations were and are phenotypically distinct from one another I still fail to see your position on Lower Egyptians's and Levantine "intermixture".

---

quote:

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Originally posted by SaxonQueen:



Too late, ones like ... Tukuler ..., already do. They already claim
• the Ancient Greeks & Romans particularly the Emporers were Black,
• that the Celts were Black,
• all the European Royalty & nobility were Black,
• Charlemagne was Black,
• Alexander The Great was Black,
• William The Conqueror was Black,
• the Vikings were Black,
• the Franks were Black,
• that all though the Germanics were White all their leaders were Black,
• that Europe at one time was all Black,
then the evil albino devil (they believe Whites are albinos) came in invaded and genocided all the indigenous Blacks LOl. They hate White people and want to strip Whites of any history, accomplishments, heritage, identity, or any homeland to call our own.

---

quote:

---

Tukuler's come to conclude:

However you and yours have for at least 250 years
now try to claim every notable African thing as a
yte Euro or 'text book yte' SW Asian accomplishment.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

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Originally posted by SaxonQueen:



Too late, ones like ... Tukuler ..., already do. They already claim
• the Ancient Greeks & Romans particularly the Emporers were Black,
• that the Celts were Black,
• all the European Royalty & nobility were Black,
• Charlemagne was Black,
• Alexander The Great was Black,
• William The Conqueror was Black,
• the Vikings were Black,
• the Franks were Black,
• that all though the Germanics were White all their leaders were Black,
• that Europe at one time was all Black,
then the evil albino devil (they believe Whites are albinos) came in invaded and genocided all the indigenous Blacks LOl. They hate White people and want to strip Whites of any history, accomplishments, heritage, identity, or any homeland to call our own.

---

U r 1 lying slanderous female Doxie who cannot
produce a scintilla of evidence to back your
hate induced claim against me.

I am not part of the negro & yte clique that
now run ES and neither am I a Blacentric nor
Afreccentric.

I see through African Eyes, know and embrace
my continent and its heritage and have no
penis envy of your Europe, its peoples,
culture, or nothing. I have mine I
don't need yours or anybody elses.

quote:

---

Tukuler's come to conclude:

However you and yours have for at least 250 years
now try to claim every notable African thing as a
yte Euro or 'text book yte' SW Asian accomplishment.

---

Perhaps that is what stoked Mike111, a 7/8ths yte
man, and his ilk to invent and promote those stupid
claims, though it is your very own yte people who
proposed Euro ytes are endemic albino rather than
albinoids merely sharing some traits in common
with actual albinos. No human beings are devils
though many, regardless of skin colour, have
devilish (vile, evil) intentions.


You owe me an apology you blind, hate filled for
any and all non-negro mentality black males,
bile stewed female barker.


EDIT:
Here I Tukuler promote a white Skythian Achilles
slayer of a black Aithiopian Memnon, son of the Dawn.

Cult of Achilles in the Euxine
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008811#000005

Sarcasm: what better way to rob yte kids of a culture hero?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Tukuler:
I mean since AngloSaxons exterminated
the Tasmanians, a blk variety of human no longer
among us.

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/the-tasmanian-genocide/

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Funny how the Allied Powers dont like to talk about the Genocides they enacted on par or sometimes worse than what the Nazi's Genocide is a term used to describe violence against members of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group with the intent to destroy the entire group.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SaxonQueen:

quote:

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Originally posted by Nevermore:
@oshun
Ahaaa. OK.
Does your statement also apply to the other direction?
I mean afrocentrist claims that the original greeks and Romans were black? Instead of black Immigrants into white greek and roman culture?
Just Like today in Europe, where you have hundreds of thousands of black Immigrants. Sure they are portrayed in todays art, but they are not europeans. Maybe in 1000 years some afrocentrists will claim, that 2018 Europe was a black continent, Just because few Blacks are today present in contemporaty art.

---

Too late, ones like Clyde, Troll Patrol (Ish Gebor), XyYTHater (XyyMan),Tukuler,TheReal, Habsburg, and many others on here already do. They already claim the Ancient Greeks & Romans particularly the Emporers were Black, that the Celts were Black, all the European Royalty & nobility were Black, Charlemagne was Black, Alexander The Great was Black, William The Conqueror was Black, the Vikings were Black, the Franks were Black, that all though the Germanics were White all their leaders were Black, that Europe at one time was all Black, then the evil albino devil (they believe Whites are albinos) came in invaded and genocided all the indigenous Blacks LOl. They hate White people and want to strip Whites of any history, accomplishments, heritage, identity, or any homeland to call our own. Heck Clyde even denies White people being human.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

However you and yours have for at least 250 years
now try to claim every notable African thing as a
yte Euro or 'text book yte' SW Asian accomplishment.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Funny how the Allied Powers dont like to talk about the Genocides they enacted on par or sometimes worse than what the Nazi's Genocide is a term used to describe violence against members of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group with the intent to destroy the entire group.

---

Genocide is a term used to describe violence against members of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group with the intent to destroy the entire group.
What is an example of such intent made by the allies during WW II ?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb]

quote:

---

Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Funny how the Allied Powers dont like to talk about the Genocides they enacted on par or sometimes worse than what the Nazi's Genocide is a term used to describe violence against members of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group with the intent to destroy the entire group.

---

Genocide is a term used to describe violence against members of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group with the intent to destroy the entire group.
What is an example of such intent made by the allies during WW II ?

---

Genocide can be executed in many ways. Modern white nationalism that has infiltrated in politics created has empowered genocide as well. When WW II was going on, and Black veterans returned they were treated different from white veterans. White veterans recieved benefits, benefits they passed on to their children, and these children to their children's children. Whereas Black veterans did receive those benefits, so they couldn't pass on benefits to their children and children's children. This resulted in a the tragic economic disenfranchised condition for many Black Americas, who died and fought for their country.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Ase:
Discrimination with the intent to eliminate a population might count though.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
No, unfair discriminatory practice is not genocide. If you misuse the word it loses it's meaning.

---

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/obesely-speaking/201401/the-silent-genocide-in-black-america

The Black Experience in the United States: An Examination of Lynching and Segregation as Instruments of Genocide

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_genocide

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ase:
Discrimination with the intent to eliminate a population might count though.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
]No, that doesn't make sense, Discrimination means to distinguish one thing from another.
Once action is taken based on the discrimination the action itself is not discrimination. It is action motivated by discrimination

But genocide is a specific type of action, killing people. It is a particular action

you can't commit a genocide by discrimination you have to kill mass numbers of people in a short period of time.

Genocide is not a from of genocide because discrimination is a concept of distinguishing things and genocide means killing large numbers of one type of people.

---

quote:

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Exclusive: Lee Atwater’s Infamous 1981 Interview on the Southern Strategy

“You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
a ghetto in America or in Nazi Germany is not genocide

A concentration camp is not a ghetto

A concentration camp is where mass numbers of people are being killed

A ghetto could be used as part of a genocidal program but by itself is not genocide

A genocide is when mass numbers of people are being killed. There is no other definition

---

quote:

---

...were rounded up and moved into ghettos or taken directly to concentration camps. There were many mass executions and as the Nazis took over more and more of Europe their ideology spread with them.

---

quote:

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During the Holocaust, the creation of ghettos was a key step in the Nazi process of brutally separating, persecuting, and ultimately destroying Europe's Jews. Ghettos were often enclosed districts that isolated Jews from the non-Jewish population and from other Jewish communities. Living conditions were miserable.

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quote:

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1a : the act or process of concentrating : the state of being concentrated

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quote:

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2 : a quarter of a city in which members of a minority group live especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure

: a situation that resembles a ghetto especially in conferring inferior status or limiting opportunity

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Thereal:
You are arguing semantics as the underlying issues are telling part in those scenarios. Sense we are talking about groups and the social relationships they have with others,that where sameness of these words and problems will persist.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] a ghetto in America or in Nazi Germany is not genocide

A concentration camp is not a ghetto

A concentration camp is where mass numbers of people are being killed

A ghetto could be used as part of a genocidal program but by itself is not genocide

A genocide is when mass numbers of people are being killed. There is no other definition

---

The ghetto condition in America was created by these demonic and extremely wicked systemic racism to marginalize (Black) people with, the goal to slowly eradicate these (Black) people. A concentration camp does it more quickly, but the aim/ endgoal is the same. That's the difference.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Funny how the Allied Powers dont like to talk about the Genocides they enacted on par or sometimes worse than what the Nazi's Genocide is a term used to describe violence against members of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group with the intent to destroy the entire group.

---

Genocide is a term used to describe violence against members of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group with the intent to destroy the entire group.
What is an example of such intent made by the allies during WW II ?

---

 

---

Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
 
Odd how its the nations that were once apart of the Allied powers, the ones who pretended for so long that they were different than those evil Nazi's that have the largest followings of "Neo-Nazi" and Fascist ideologies...

https://www.ebony.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/charlottesville.jpg

https://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/GoldenDawn-Greece-ap-img.jpg

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pixies/2009/10/17/1255816263360/Supporters-protest-as-Nic-001.jpg?width=1200&height=630&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&over lay-align=bottom%2Cleft&overlay-width=100p&overlay-base64=L2ltZy9zdGF0aWMvb3ZlcmxheXMvdG8tYWdlLTIwMDkucG5n&enable=upscale&s=0dc07214ac4d82fb06a8c56997bb2f7e



While Germany is welcoming to Immigrants for the most part and alot more of the Leader of the Free world than the USA

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=751&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=Id45XdGlIsn0tAWgg7_YAw&q=germans+welcoming+immigrants&oq=germans+welcoming+immigrants&gs_l=img.3...4772.10898..11153 ...0.0..0.1022.3753.22j1j1j1j0j1j0j1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0j0i67j0i5i30j0i8i30.P-VzHKf0k3M&ved=0ahUKEwiRus7tw9DjAhVJOq0KHaDBDzsQ4dUDCAY&uact=5

https://qz.com/1512186/merkel-pitches-germany-as-leader-of-the-free-world/

[ 31. July 2019, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Scientific Racism was an accepted part of the European and European Diasporan intelligentcia at the time. The Same racial science crap that the Nazi's used to Justify the Genocide of the Jews was also accepted and adcovated by the nations in the allied powers.

Tasmanian Genocide
http://combatgenocide.org/?page_id=146

Rubber Terror
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State

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quote:

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Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-

It was the shame of killing millions of Jews that the victorious allied Nations tried to pretend that they were different than what the Nazi's espoused.

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quote:

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Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-


The four main Allied powers in WWII were

United States
Soviet Union
United Kingdom
China

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