Does anyone know what time people are planning to protest in cairo? Are they still intending to do something or not?
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
" On Facebook, more than 85,000 people have pledged to attend a nationwide antigovernment protest planned for Tuesday, Jan. 25, in Egypt. It's an effort that has so far been facilitated almost entirely online, and if even half that many people show up, it will be a historic day for Egyptian political activism under the Mubarak regime ."
» ianinegypt Ian Lee Supreme court quite amid heavy security. Feels like the calm before the storm. #jan25 4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
ianinegypt Ian Lee And here we go. Heading to Supreme Court for first of many demonstrations #jan25 #egypt 26 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
ianinegypt Ian Lee Nescafe has accordion and violin players performing in Sadat metro. Reminds me of the Titanic. #jan25 #egypt 1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
ianinegypt Ian Lee Wow, downtown Cairo is on lock down. Riot police are everywhere, guarding every street. Will today be battle on the Nile? #egypt 1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Gsquare86 Gigi Ibrahim جييييج Don't let the police intimidate us with their presence, they always have been there and always will, it's time to move #Jan25 3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
Gsquare86 Gigi Ibrahim جييييج Grand Mahalla (2 million population) surrounded by heavy security #Jan25 #Mahala ..my prediction; mahala is to be watched today #sidibouzid 19 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
Gsquare86 Gigi Ibrahim جييييج Center for socialist studies has police at the door and watching closely anyone getting even just close to it..#Jan25 23 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
Gsquare86 Gigi Ibrahim جييييج RT @Sarahngb: Tahrir square looks scary. Cordons, policemen, fire trucks, CS trucks. #Jan25 37 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
Gsquare86 Gigi Ibrahim جييييج 7ad wasal shubra? #jan25 51 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
Gsquare86 Gigi Ibrahim جييييج There is a lot of police and security forces in the very empty korba #Jan25 1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
Gsquare86 Gigi Ibrahim جييييج RT @ManarMohsen: For those planning to go to the #Shubra protest, they closed the Massara station and there's security everywhere 1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply » Gsquare86 Gigi Ibrahim جييييج @ @LolaGamal honestly etghayrat matghyaretsh ana nazla shubra and people will be in the streets..there is no way of "avoiding" police today 2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
Gsquare86 Gigi Ibrahim جييييج Streets around interior ministry are closed #Jan25 RT @rassdwehda: الشوارع المحيطة بوزارة الداخلية مغلقة 2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply » Gsquare86
Gigi Ibrahim جييييج People going to Shubra please tell us how you got there..Massara station is not closed, it is just surrounded with heavy security #Jan25 2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
Gsquare86 Gigi Ibrahim جييييج great start RT @3arabawy: streets r empty. Police r everywhere. #jan25 2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Remember the post from a long time ago in which you claimed you wore a bikini to the banks of the Suez canal and had lunch with an Egyptian family?
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I am here in cairo, and so far nothing is happening. Yeah, read all articles and watching the news.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
Posts: 94 Registered: Feb 2004 posted 10 February 2004 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tigerlily Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote I do not want to talk about a positive experience w/ an Egyptian man though I had my fair share.........
No, when I arrived in Egypt to work as a babysitter (for children only!!!!!) I had the first Friday off. I didn't stay on the hotel beach (Suez) and explored by myself the lonely beach next to it. I spent the whole afternoon there and felt like Robinson Crusoe. I never saw in my whole life (and I was only 20 years old) palms before and the color of the water was just so amazing. I thought I was really dreaming - well I got a bad sunburn too.
Anyway I saw Egyptian children w/ their mothers coming up to me and they were looking for shells. So I started to try to communicate w/ them but that didn't work. I just helped them finding more shells on the shore. One woman ask me w/ hand sign if I would like to eat something. I agreed and we went up to the field. Well another woman put me a big cover over my body since I was still dressed as a "dumb stupid" tourist in a bikini. Well the women brought me than couple of pillows and more covers and ask me to sit down w/ them. Boy I was sweating in the heat but they really treated me like a queen. The husbands came then and we all sat together. You know they did fresh bread in this little oven (?) and gave me also fresh milk (I probably shouldn't have drunken that but I couldn't reject since they were all so friendly; thanks God I didn't develop any problems later on either). Anyhow this village people were so so nice to me and this was one of the first great experiences I had when I arrived in Egypt.
Later on I had so many other nice encounters w/ the hospitality and generosity of Egyptians as I stayed in Cairo for couple of years. If you come as a guest they treat you like a guest. They don't act stiff and reserved even if there are communication problems. They treat you like you belong to the family but actually you are there for the first time. I miss that where I live....
Yes I love it. I remembered the post and Tigerweed and inc. stated it didn't exist.
well thats time well spent, I got 7 hours of sleep and ready for work; plus I found my nugget in the rough.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I dont usually get involved in peoples fights. But question was about cairo protests. Dont u have anything better to do, than pick fights and insult people?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: I dont usually get involved in peoples fights. But question was about cairo protests. Dont u have anything better to do, than pick fights and insult people?
She has made repetitive and ongoing claims she cannot back up.
she lies about her past, present and everything in between. Then she uses these falsehoods to attempt to win arguements.
Tigerweed is the main username to drive off Egyptians living in Egypt. Mainly because she knows Egypt better than Egyptians living in Egypt.
Several had emailed me in the past alerting me to various frauds before they logged off ES for good.
It would be nice to have more actual Egyptians than frauds on ES.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I live in egypt and am married to an egyptian. I think there are many good people who post here. I just think everyone should respect each other.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
According to facebook link, protests taking place in sinai, al areesh now. Also people gathering outside high court in cairo.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
SONO ffs go to bed, you really are making a total FOOL of yourself now.
Getting bored with you now, imagine most of your real life friends get to this point a lot faster though.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: SONO ffs go to bed, you really are making a total FOOL of yourself now.
Getting bored with you now, imagine most of your real life friends get to this point a lot faster though.
How is the gigolo doing? When was the last time he called?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: SONO ffs go to bed, you really are making a total FOOL of yourself now.
Getting bored with you now, imagine most of your real life friends get to this point a lot faster though.
How is the gigolo doing? When was the last time he called?
dont know, you were married to him, when was the last time you went for servicing you psycho?
Husband is now sat eating sahleb and feeding me spoonfuls Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: SONO ffs go to bed, you really are making a total FOOL of yourself now.
Getting bored with you now, imagine most of your real life friends get to this point a lot faster though.
How is the gigolo doing? When was the last time he called?
dont know, you were married to him, when was the last time you went for servicing you psycho?
Husband is now sat eating sahleb and feeding me spoonfuls
When was the last time the gigolo called?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: SONO ffs go to bed, you really are making a total FOOL of yourself now.
Getting bored with you now, imagine most of your real life friends get to this point a lot faster though.
How is the gigolo doing? When was the last time he called?
dont know, you were married to him, when was the last time you went for servicing you psycho?
Husband is now sat eating sahleb and feeding me spoonfuls
When was the last time the gigolo called?
Amy, read what I type now, not in 2 years time. It MAY help you to not look so STUPID now.
Have put a simple reply so you are able to read and understand.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: SONO ffs go to bed, you really are making a total FOOL of yourself now.
Getting bored with you now, imagine most of your real life friends get to this point a lot faster though.
How is the gigolo doing? When was the last time he called?
dont know, you were married to him, when was the last time you went for servicing you psycho?
Husband is now sat eating sahleb and feeding me spoonfuls
When was the last time the gigolo called?
Amy, read what I type now, not in 2 years time. It MAY help you to not look so STUPID now.
Have put a simple reply so you are able to read and understand.
When was the last time the gigolo called?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Bedtime Sono, night night, sleep tight, don't let those nasty bed bugs bite Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Bedtime Sono, night night, sleep tight, don't let those nasty bed bugs bite
When was the last time the gigolo called, valerie bin ladin?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Bedtime Sono, night night, sleep tight, don't let those nasty bed bugs bite
When was the last time the gigolo called, valerie bin ladin?
He plays backgammon, not chess. Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Adelly, I heard that the protests were to start around 2 p.m., which is now!
I'm kind of interested to see, but not crazy enough to get anywhere close to all that!!
Hope no one is badly injured.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
The facebook page is: we are khalid said. Has updates, photo etc. My husband and i aren't venturing out today
Posted by Mimmi (Member # 3606) on :
In our news they say that hunders of people are protesting in Cairo and they broke through the police chaines.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
*Edited cos I didn't read correctly. lol
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Best, LUN
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I couldn't find the facebook page. I copy/pasted the name, so either I somehow did it wrong or the page has been taken down?
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
This could be Egypt's Berlin Wall moment. I don't know how you folk can resist going out to take a look at it.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
You mean, why don't I want to risk being badly injured? lol ?
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Nearly 10 thousand heading from mondhaissen to tahrir
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Young and old are taking to the streets all over Egypt. Even the Bedhouin are at it in El Arish. Egypt is on fire. The streets belong to the people. There's talk of 10s of thousands. The police can do nothing. People are breaking through police lines. I'm in England. But if I were in Cairo, I'd be making my way gingerly towards Tahrir Square. What could anyone do?
Sorry to butt in on this thread all of a sudden. Do carry on.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
My husband wont let me go. Afraid id be hurt.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
RamyRaoof police riots & security use tear gas against demonstrators now in Tahrir square, Cairo. #Jan25 #Egypt
Demos gonna go well into the night - and hopefully continue afterwards.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Yes. Things now turning nasty: water-canon, clubs, tear gas, leaders arrested, beaten, cameras and phones confiscated etc. All livestreaming appears to have gone dead.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I heard that if the police were violent that people would stay all night and through tomorrow as well.
We shall see I guess.
Wish it didn't have to be violent on either side.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Full scale riot in Tahrir Square. Police not in control. Crowd retaliates: rocks thrown at police. Smoke bombs returned.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
All major news avoiding coverage.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Some coverage on Al Jazeera English (115 on the Nilesat).
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
WilYaWil Wil ya Wil Websites blocked in #Egypt at the moment: News:http://elbadil.net/ , http://dostor.org/ . live streaming: bambuser.com/ #jan25 #cairo 2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
monaeltahawy Mona Eltahawy Hearing from #Egypt tweets that #Twitter not blocked in #Egypt. #Jan25
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Reports twitter is blocked on TeData.
Police moving against AlJazeera in Cairo: arrested cameramen, invaded their offices.
Reports are now saying that Twitter is blocked in all of Egypt. Can anyone confirm this?
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Yup... my Twitter has now gone too.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I had a hard time with the twitter and gave that up a bit ago and just been getting updates off here and the facebook page adelly listed.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I can read tweets but can't access to reply (not that I have anything to say!)
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
The facebook page is updating everything as it happens. Just following it
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Closed all bridges to Tahrir and River police preventing access from the Nile. On RNN in Arabic
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
RamyRaoof Ramy Raoof netizens in #Egypt- if you want to access Twitter.com & Bambuser.com download TOR from http://torproject.org #Jan25
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Would like to venture down, but how would I get there?
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Citizen, I know a couple of guys who have gone down. They are on a hotel rooftop with a beer watching it all happen.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
that sounds ideal, CF! Which hotel?
do I sound like a real revolutionary?
Posted by Rashaaa (Member # 15206) on :
If u got Twitter blocked use: http://hotspotshield.com/ Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
The last update I heard they were on the Fontana but I know they are travelling along the Stella map so they could be anywhere.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
somebody must have gagged the al Ahram guy, they stopped updating
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Latest tweets indicate protesters have made a decision to stay the night in Tahrir Square.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
nothing live now...
ya mubarak, ya mubarak, el saudia fintizarak! Mubarak, mubarak - saudi is waiting for you!
Hosny Mubarak, ya gaban, ya habib al amrikan Hosny Mubarak, you coward, America's darling
being chanted in nice rhyming arabic!
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
UrdunMubdi3 أردن مبدع "@Ghonim: Everyone come to Tahrir now we need you we are no less than 10,000 and no more police #JAN25
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
anonymouse.org got me into twitter no download required
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
The police threw 16 people onto motorway. Omg
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by longusername: Latest tweets indicate protesters have made a decision to stay the night in Tahrir Square.
bencnn benwedeman Large grtoups of plainclothed cops headed to heart of tahrir #jan25 7 minutes ago
3arabawy Hossam عمو حسام Ya shabab, Tahrir is a war zone now. Tens of thousands r protesting the same chants as the Tunisians. #Jan25 37 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Tom_El_Rumi Tom Trewinnard Awesome video, exceptional bravery. Young man stops water cannon truck in street. #jan25 http://ow.ly/3JVpj Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Cnn is about to show updates from alex.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
not much from cnn... police not being as brutal as expected... good news
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
RNN on facebook gained 10,000 new likers (is that what they're called?) in the last hour!
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Internet much more informative
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: According to one tweet, police removing their uniforms and joining in!
Ya ragel!!
Favorite Retweet Reply » Alshaheeed Khaled Said by monaeltahawy Protesters in Tahrir are not going home. They need food & blankets. Roads are closed so plz anyone lives local to Tahrir help #Jan25 #Egypt 8 minutes ago Favorite Undo Retweet Reply
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Protester takes on a water canon truck single-handed in scenes reminiscent of Tianenmen Square.
we're doing quite well on here... getting my pots and pans ready!
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
live video again on Al jazeera mobasher... not the regular al jazeera.
thousands but peaceful
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Yeah watching it now
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
what happened?
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Rumours have it that Facebook will be shut down tonight.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
They need to sustain the protests, keep pressure on the regime.
If they last till Friday, watch out. Day off, millions will be in Mosques across the country, and could very well join in. Especially if the sermons cry FREEDOM.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
One more thing – if they get cold at night, they should torch the Mogamma to keep warm. Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
i see it on cnn but as small letters no big news. why are they protesting?
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Lol at exiled. In a short explanation tina their president sux
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
poverty, corruption, unemployment, police brutality
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
off topic a little u know how they claim to be soooo poor yet every one of them have a pack a day of smokes?
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Facebook page says govt wants protest finished by 10 am and may use live ammo. I hope thats not true.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Facebook page says govt want protest finished by 10 am and they might use live ammo. I hope that isn't true.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
I hope it's true, maybe that will get the people angry enough to smash their god dam faces in once and for all.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: off topic a little u know how they claim to be soooo poor yet every one of them have a pack a day of smokes?
What's your point?
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
"Gamal Mubarak, Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak's son who is widely tipped as his successor, has fled to London with his family, Arabic website Akhbar al-Arab said on Tuesday."
Don't trust that Egyptian police are changing sides. It is way too early for that. Changing sides won't occur until the cowards are certain they (or their families) won't face repercussions. If the police were seen taking off their uniforms it could be a tactic used by security forces to deploy non-uniformed groups. They use such a tactic to mix with protesters and snatch or neutralize the most vocal ones (leaders). This freakin tactic is damn effective.
I fully agree that this protest needs more incitement.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I just hate it when someone is killed for standing up for themselves. One young man already dead in suez.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Cairo Suez Monsura Mahala Tanta Aswan Suez Alexandria Assiut
Where else?
@longusername: That is surreal if true. Hope to read such news on other news network for verifcation.
@adelly: unfortunately the Egyptian Regime won't go out without a fight and maybe to the death.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Yeah exiled you are probably right.
Posted by marydot (Member # 15932) on :
Clashes in Cairo on 'day of revolt'
Police in Cairo have been using tear gas and water cannon to try to quell rare anti-government protests.
Thousands have joined the protests after an internet campaign inspired by the uprising in Tunisia.
Read More Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
National strike tomorrow?
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Good possibility of strike
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
CNN reporter Ben Wedeman tweets:
"Interior Ministry official tells #CNN one protester in Suez killed by gas, one policemen in Cairo killed by stone. #Jan25 #Egypt"
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
a Lot of websites are bringing the Gamal Mubarak news, he seemed to have fled with his family. There was another rumour last weekend that Egypts gold has been transferred to the netherlands. I didn't do it! Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Coptic Church “special sermons” throughout country on Tuesday urging Copts not to participate in protests.
People are now posting on FB links to the Brit Embassy site to register if any Brit expats still need to be registered with them.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Yeah another young guy in suez.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
ahahaha. Funny youtube video of protestors pelting riot police with rocks.
Echoing what others have mentioned on this thread, this tweet calls for a national strike tomorrow.
"Alshaheeed
National strike tomorrow & day after. Plz Join protesters in Cairo, Alexandria & all over Egypt. No schools, No Unis & No work #Jan25 #Egypt 33 minutes ago via web"
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
More protesters have shown up with tents and food...
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Yeah just read that. Some hacker crashed ndp website.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
If you do want to register with the British Embassy, do it via this link:
My husband and i still watching coverage and following online.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
I am following the FB page, it seems to be winding down on there. I am off to sleep and will check in first thing to see how things are as this will affect my day if it is still going strong.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
yes, rate of Cairo tweets is slowing considerably - 20 in a couple of minutes as opposed to hundreds earlier! But I guess that is partly due to not being able to tweet via mobile from that area right now.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Yeah, i will sleep soon too. I will be checking in the am too.
Posted by Ocean Blue (Member # 15974) on :
thanks everyone for all the info and up to date links!
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
خراج إيناس مرزوق
في 10 دقائق فقط، أنهت أجهزة الأمن في القاهرة اعتصام المتظاهرين في ميدان التحرير، بعد ساعات طويلة من بدايته صباح الثلاثاء، حيث حشدت قوات الأمن أعداد كبيرة من جنود الأمن المركزي وصل عددهم الى ما يزيد عن 10 ألاف مجند، وضابط، واستخدمت أجهزة الأمن العربات المصفحة، والمدرعات، والقنابل المسلية للدموع في تفريق المتظاهرين بشوارع وسط القاهرة، وطاردوهم حتى شارع ميريت الذي يقع فيه المتحف المصري.
استعدت قوات الأمن لفض الاعتصام باضاءة الكشافات المتواجدة أعلى السيارات المدرعة، كإنذار للمتظاهرين، ولفت انتباهم الى أن القوات سوف تبدأ في فض الاعتصام ومواجهة المحتجين، إلا أن المتظاهرين لم يستجيبوا لتلك التهديدات، وظلوا يرددون الشعارات المعادية للنظام والحكومة، فاندفعت القنابل المسيلة للدموع في سماء ميدان التحرير، لتقع وسط المتظاهرين الذين أصيب بعضهم باختناقات نتيجة كثافة الدخان، وعندما ظنت قوات الأمن أن المتظاهرين خضعوا لمطالبهم، كانت المفاجأة حيث رفض المتظاهرين الانصراف، وفض الاعتصام.
وجددت الأجهزة الأمنية مطالبها بفض الاعتصام، إلا انها لم تجد سوى أجساد المتظاهرين التي تلقت ضربات قوية وسقط على العشرات منهم القنابل المسيلة للدموع، والتي تسببت في إصابة العشرات، وحتى هذه اللحظات لم يسقط قتلى او ضحايا بين صفوف المحتجين.
واستخدمت قوات الأمن خراطيم المياه في فض الاعتصام إلى جانب القنابل المسيلة للدموع، إلا أن المتظاهرين لم يجدوا أمامهم سوى الحجارة التي قاموا بقذفها تجاه جنود الأمن المركزي الذي بادلوهم إلقاء الطوب والحجارة.
في الوقت نفسه اقتحمت السيارات المصفحة صفوف المتظاهرين، وكانت في طريقها إلى دهس أي شخص في طريقها ـ على حد قول شهود عيان ـ كما هاجم ما يزيد عن 10 الاف مجند المحتجين وقاموا بمطاردتهم في شوارع وسط القاهرة واغلقوا الشوارع الجانبية بميدان التحرير، فيما تركوا الطريق المؤدي الى المتحف المصري مفتوحا أمامهم، لتظل المطاردات مستمرة إلى ساعات متأخرة من صباح الأربعاء.
ولجأت قوات الأمن إلى خداع المتظاهرين، عندما نشرت بينهم أعداد كبيرة من الجنود السريين في زي مدني، وعندما بدأت قوات الأمن في إطلاق القنابل المسيلة للدموع، ونظر المتظاهرون إليها في السماء لمتابعة سقوطها ، فوجيء الجميع بالجنود السريين يعتدون بالضرب على المتظاهرين بعنف شديد.
وبدأت المطاردات بين قوات الأمن والمتظاهرين الذي نزل بعضهم إلى محطة مترو الأنفاق بالتحرير، فقامت قوات الأمن بالقاء القنابل المسيلة للدموع داخل محطة المترو، وامتلأت سماء ميدان التحرير بالدخان، ووقع عدد كبير من المصابين، وقال بعض المتظاهرين إنهم سيكملون اعتصامهم صباح الأربعاء الساعة الثانية ظهرا، وكل يوم، حتى يتم تحقيق مطالبهم.
على جانب أخر طاردت قوات الأمن المتظاهرين في ميدان أحمد حلمي ودفعتهم للهروب إلى منطقة السبتية، بعد أن فشلو في العودة إلى ميدان التحرير.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
"Many protesters are fainting from the amount of teargas used (more than 60 cannons so far) and police is attacking everyone and randomly arresting people in side roads. Shame on you. Shame on you. 7 minutes ago" http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk/posts/187968044564544
Seems to have died down now and the streets mostly clear, but who knows what tomorrow brings.
Posted by Ford Prefect (not perfect) (Member # 9338) on :
You know what I don't care if the crowds dispersed. The fact remains we are all witnessing change in the Middle East and corrupt and brutal Arab regimes will fall one by one. Tunisia was only the beginning. We gonna need a year's supply of popcorn by the looks of things.
Power to the people.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
linton calls for restraint in Egypt
Politics 1/25/2011 9:45:00 PM
WASHINGTON, Jan 25 (KUNA) -- US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called on all parties in Egypt to exercise restraint in the wake of the protests being witnessed in that country. Clinton told reporters following a meeting she held with her Spanish counterpart Trinidad Jimenez that Egypt "like many countries in the region, has been experiencing demonstrations, we know that they've occurred not only in Cairo but around the country." She affirmed that "we're monitoring that very closely." She added "we support the fundamental rights of expression and assembly for all people." "We urge that all parties exercise restraint and refrain from violence," Clinton stressed. "Our assessment is that the Egyptian government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people," the US top diplomat said. (end) si.bs KUNA 252145 Jan 11NNNN
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Protest in Nasr City planned for midday
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Can't get on any Twitter page.
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
ago Favorite Retweet Reply » bencnn benwedeman Egyptian stock market crashing. Loses 21 billion pounds in first 15 minutes of trading #jan25 #egypt 1 hour ago
Is this the beginning of the end for Mubarak? Will we witness his 30 year dictatorship coming to an end now???
I hope more people will make it to the streets and protest. Police can't do anything against millions of Egyptians. Their voices need to be heard!!!!!!!!!!
It's a damn shame that El Baradei decided to leave the country in this very important time and is not actively supporting his own people.
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
International Hackers Anonymous is working on hacking all government websites. At 14:oo new demonstrations at Tahir Square. Video Journalist Mohamed Abdelfattah (@Mfatta7) has been excessively beaten and arrested by the police in Cairo. Stock exchange has great losses.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Apparently the people are planning to protest in nasr city, 6th of oct, ramses, and tahrir as well as alex and other locations. My husband has promised me he would not get involved. I dont want him killed or arrested. But i know he wants to get involved. He is downtown doing some work.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
"The police cannot kill us because we, for all practical purposes, are already dead," said the father of four, clutching Egypt's red, white and black flag.
The pashas (police officers) are not going to relinquish power until they beat half their counytrymen to death. Habeeb Adly is by far the most disgusting person on the face of the earth, worse than Mubarak.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
The pashas (police officers) are not going to relinquish power until they beat half their counytrymen to death.
WHY......
Because they are too well looked after and corrupt, they know what side their bread is buttered....
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Now protests are to be banned
"Egypt has banned street protests, one day after thousands of people joined a "day of revolt" against the government of President Hosni Mubarak. Public gatherings, protests and marches are all now prohibited, the country's official news agency reports. Anyone joining in unauthorised action will be detained and prosecuted, the interior ministry said."
Ha, how they want to arrest millions of people?!!!!
Egyptians get on the streets, your future is in your own hands now!! This might be the only chance for a CHANGE you will get!!!!!!!!
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Miss Tigerlily: "Egypt has banned street protests, one day after thousands of people joined a "day of revolt" against the government of President Hosni Mubarak. Public gatherings, protests and marches are all now prohibited, the country's official news agency reports. Anyone joining in unauthorised action will be detained and prosecuted, the interior ministry said."
Ha, how they want to arrest millions of people?!!!!
Egyptians get on the streets, your future is in your own hands now!! This might be the only chance for a CHANGE you will get!!!!!!!! [/QB]
So long as the corrupt police are getting paid plus tips they won't give a damn about their fellow Egyptians
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Everyone knows that the Egyptian police (besides the big bosses) gets paid badly. Sooner or later more and more of them will realize what's going on and will switch sides.
Egyptians have to be extremely brave and persistent now, they can't give up. They have to call on as many people as possible to join the demonstrations. If this goes on for a couple of weeks Mubarak has to take his hat - just like Ben Ali.
A piece on the rise of the pashas. It's no coincidence this massive protest was held on "police day."
So why have they become oppressors....cause they are paid better than they let on.
They grew into the oppressor role. The Army was too busy fighting Israel in 56, 67, and 73 and the police assumed the internal responsibilities of the nation. They in effect became the whipping stick for the president via the interior ministry which controls tightly the police, central police (amn al markazi) , and -state security police (amn al dowla).
It's purely for convenience and yes you are 100% correct it is all about money and corruption. To enter the Police Academy and this is where every police officer with a rank of lieutenant or higher graduates from, you have to pay a bribe, which at one point was 30,000 L.E. I don't know what it is presently.
The benefits that Thubat (police officers with lieutenant+ rank) receive are enormous. Subsidized apartments which they sell at much higher prices. Duty free cars which they rent out and also sell at full price. This doesn't include shake ups, bribes, extortion, drugs, prostitution money, kickbacks, and everything else dirty. And of course prestige, or the title of Pasha. An Egyptian Thabit thinks of himeself as God compared to his countrymen.
Yes the thubat (officers) will fight for their livelihoods to the death and so will their subordinates, the lowly police that have basically no rank and no education. They don't think, they are just thugs, especially the amn al-markezi, when the thubaat tell them to break legs and jaws, they answer Hathir Ya pasha - YES SIR! With no concious.
Hopefully the Army awakes.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Thanks for that Exiiled you have confirmed what I have felt for a long long time. There was a son of a woman living above us and he was high ranking police he swanked and swaggered when ever he visited his mother...I had bad feelings about him. We lived opposite a small police station, but the bullying that went on was shocking..... Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
FACEBOOK IS NOW OFFICIALLY BLOCKED TOO.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Yes fb blocked, but i am able access it still on mobile via mobinil internet
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
o err facebook just got blocked
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
argh! what will happen to my farm??!!
Facebook, come baaaaaaaack!!
I'd post a status message saying that they took fb offline but... uh... yeah...
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Miss Tigerlily: FACEBOOK IS NOW OFFICIALLY BLOCKED TOO.
Just in Egypt?
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Apparently, fact that i am using opera mini browser is allowing me access to fb and twitter. I have no prob with either
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Why would it be blocked anywhere else?
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
To Egyptians who cannot access Facebook or Twitter
Got to the login screen with opera and then it wouldn't connect and now I can't even get to the login screen.
Obviously, I'm destined to housework today instead of wasting time online. Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
My phone had opera preinstalled as the browser. I like it. And now that mobinil has unlimited internet for 20 le a month, i use it a lot.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
My phone had opera preinstalled as the browser. I like it. And now that mobinil has unlimited internet for 20 le a month, i use it a lot.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
International arrest warrant issued for Ben Ali and his family members. This definitely will have an impact on Mubarak decision to remain in Egypt. “no where to run, no where to hide”
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
I'll give it a try. I'm using a different one I can read FB but I can't post anything comments, likes or statuses. Trying different proxies and only getting to the login screen. Couldn't get in using Opera either - stopped at the login screen. Cursing myself for not getting round to fixing my VPN after my 'puter crashed in November!
PS Downloaded that and my antivirus zapped it said it was infected with trojans.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: International arrest warrant issued for Ben Ali and his family members. This definitely will have an impact on Mubarak decision to remain in Egypt. “no where to run, no where to hide”
Where did you get that info?
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
The report about ben ali arrest warrant is on news.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: International arrest warrant issued for Ben Ali and his family members. This definitely will have an impact on Mubarak decision to remain in Egypt. “no where to run, no where to hide”
Just read it on Facebook
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Will they be able to rout him out ...he has gone very quite......are his family still in Disneyland Paris?
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: International arrest warrant issued for Ben Ali and his family members. This definitely will have an impact on Mubarak decision to remain in Egypt. “no where to run, no where to hide”
"police preempting any gatherings by deploying massively & beating anyone who looks like they want to demonstrate" http://twitter.com/weddady/status/30266086322606080 Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Will they be able to rout him out ...he has gone very quite......are his family still in Disneyland Paris?
Who knows what the Saudis will do. They did after all harbor Idi Amin until his death, despite an arrest warrant. The good news is he is stuck in Saudia Arabia. I read reports that the Ben Ali and his family's ultimate goal was to migrate to Canada.
Today it was reported that some of Ben Ali's extended family members are in Montreal but not via visas but via Permanent Residency which they had before Ben Ali's ouster. Ben Ali and his immediate family members however won't have such a luxury because Canada made it clear that they are not welcome, and admitted the others because they were entitled to live in Canada (PR).
I could live with this and for someone as secular as Ben Ali and his wife, Saudia Arabia sounds like a nice prison. Sure they'll live in luxury but not the type of luxury they thought they would have.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
R.N.N شبكة رصد still going strong on facebook but their reporters facing some hassle. reporting marches in Galaa st, Ataba area, Ramsis Sq, Farid St etc... many arrests, rubber bullets,
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
National curfew? How could they enforce such a thing without letting everyone know first?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: International arrest warrant issued for Ben Ali and his family members. This definitely will have an impact on Mubarak decision to remain in Egypt. “no where to run, no where to hide”
Poetic justice. Now they know how many of their own people felt when they were terrorized by amn-al-dowla and police in general. There's a saying in Egypt “egyptian police don't discriminate”, they will torture young, old, women, men and children.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: National curfew? How could they enforce such a thing without letting everyone know first?
Good question! I have an appointment at 6pm, will be leaving office in about 10 mins... how will I know?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Curfew - when? Just today or for unspecified duration?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
OK I just see the tweets about the curfew coming out. Kicks in at 6pm. Wonder what the full info is?
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Guardian reporter arrested yesterdy made this recording inside police truck!
am off to my appointment now... ربنا يستر might be back... or...
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
jmayton Joseph Mayton @ @3arabawy we have had at least three people tell @BikyaMasr that there has been live ammunition . can we get a military person to check it? http://twitter.com/#!/jmayton Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I hope everything continues. My husband said he never thought this many would get involved.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Anyone got any true info about the curfew - only source seems to be twitter at the mo.
A friend called her husband who is still at work and he and noone he works with know anything about this?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
By the way facebook is back.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Back but really slow and sometimes not quite connecting. I'm having trouble doing much with it.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Just tried calling a friend of mine who i havent spoken to in a while. Her husband is a police colonel in ministry of interior. I tried to ask her if he was involved and phone buzzed and disconnected. Tried to call back twice. Each time i said is he involved, it buzzed and disconnected. Now its switched off. She was talking when it cut out, so i dont think it was her.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
curfew only in Cairo? Any news on this?
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
"@3arabawy we have had at least three people tell @BikyaMasr that there has been live ammunition. can we get a military person to check it? 12 minutes ago via web in reply to 3arabawy" http://twitter.com/jmayton/status/30290827406221312
"Left protest but still going, and growing. Crackdown not working, people fired up. But just blocks away, wld never know was happening #Jan25 10 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter" http://twitter.com/MarquardtA/status/30291422196269056
"News about fire on 6th october bridge next to El Gala Street! The strike is starting & ppl are running/stampeding like crazy! #Egypt #Jan25 13 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®" http://twitter.com/marwsay/status/30290509054349314 Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Just tried calling a friend of mine who i havent spoken to in a while. Her husband is a police colonel in ministry of interior. I tried to ask her if he was involved and phone buzzed and disconnected. Tried to call back twice. Each time i said is he involved, it buzzed and disconnected. Now its switched off. She was talking when it cut out, so i dont think it was her.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Twitter appears to be back!
Not sure that one about google is true because I've been googling all afternoon via Etisalat.
OK can't load twitter now again. Maybe it's overloaded or blocked again!
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Just tweeted out curfew is 10pm to 8am. Someone's tweeted it was on Al Jazeera so I'll stick that on.
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
AElMassry Ąhmed El Mąssry #Egypt : Witnesses heard several #livebullets shot over the 6OCTOBER BRIDGE 9 minutes ago
shmpOngO Shmoponga Republic Downtown turns into a battle field #jan25 6 minutes ago
alaa Alaa Abd El Fattah by norashalaby ♻ @monasosh: Head downtown, ran into 2 separate demos just by walking towards Ramsis. Police keep beating ppl,they keep on gathering #Jan25 12 minutes ago
norashalaby Nora Shalaby Al-jazeera reports major clashes in the city of Suez - use of live ammunition #jan 25 9 minutes ago
Single Egyptian jumps on a pack of security: http://yfrog.com/h36s1cj Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Ok... Anyone else losing faith in the accuracy of all this info online?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Yep me. Always been a bit sceptical (note the hysteria that follows whenever anyone can't load their Instant Messenger! - not talking about today!)
Someone tweeted out just now that the curfew is in Tunisia not here!
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Is there any danger of Mubarak and co making any statements regarding the whole situation or have I missed it?
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Amnesty International: Egypt Must Stop Crackdown On Protesters
Amnesty International today condemned a crackdown on demonstrations in Egypt amid continuing protests against poverty, police abuse and corruption.
Reports of ongoing demonstrations in Egypt today follow a day of protest in Cairo, Alexandria and other major cities that saw at least three deaths, rubber bullets and tear gas employed against crowds, beatings of detainees and at least 500 protesters arrested.
Amnesty International repeated its call on Egyptian authorities to refrain from using excessive force against demonstrators, and criticised the actions of security forces yesterday.
“We witnessed reckless policing yesterday with the security forces relying on tear gas and using rubber bullet as a first resort” said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa Programme.
“Security forces must be held in check.”
Demonstrations yesterday started peacefully but stone throwing and scuffles broke out when the security forces started forcibly dispersing demonstrators.
Three demonstrators were reportedly killed as well as one policeman in the largest demonstrations that Egypt has seen in decades.
The Ministry of Interior today issued a warning that protests today will not be tolerated and those arrested will be prosecuted.
“We fear that the Ministry’s warning signals the authorities' readiness to unleash the full ferocity of the security forces with their track record of abuses” said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui.
Instead of threatening demonstrators, Amnesty International is urging the Egyptian authorities to open a proper investigation into the killings of protestors and hold accountable anyone found responsible.
The Ministry of Interior announced today that 500 protesters have been arrested.
Amnesty International is concerned that some have been detained simply for the peaceful exercise of their rights to freedom of expression and assembly.
Others who may have been arrested on suspicion of violent acts must be charged with a recognizably criminal offence and tried in fair proceedings or otherwise released.
Amnesty International has also received reports accusing the Egyptian authorities of blocking Twitter, and the video-sharing website Bambuser. The organization has also received reports that mobile phone networks were blocked in some areas and was unable to reach a number of human rights activist on the phone.
Twitter and Bambuser have officially confirmed that they were blocked in Egypt yesterday.
“These blocks on communication show that the government is trying to stop the world from knowing what is happening in Egypt, and to cut off demonstrators from each other.”
Undue restrictions and sweeping measures under the nearly 30 years of state of emergency have routinely been used by the Egyptian authorities to quash the legitimate exercise of the rights to peaceful protest and assembly in violation of Article 21 of the ICCPR which guarantees the right to freedom of assembly.
Al Jazera want people to call from cairo in English
RT @AJEnglish: We're looking for people on the streets of #Cairo to talk to us tonight by phone. Please tweet us if you're interested. #jan25
RT @megatonlove: News from Cairo friend: Gov't has blocked Twitter Google Facebook & YouTube. If protests continue, electricity will be cut off.#Jan25 Pls RT
Well when I read that it is official that FB was blocked in Egypt yet everyone I know in Egypt was still playing Scrabble and poking each other I finally decided to stop reading Tweets, FB posts (how ironic) and ES.
I was actually emailed from the uk to ask if it was true that the internet was blocked... dumbass! How would I have read it if it was.
Anyway... all I can say is the traffic is scarily low in volume compared to normal days and I know of 2 schools definately closed tomorrow for safety.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
FB did go off here for a bit this afternoon then came back. Still can't get on actual twitter either without using the VPN. Google is working though, so far
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Curfew definitely not on yet, streets teaming as usual. UN warning staff to stay in from 12-7. I'm sceptical too, rumours are being invented, spread and then reported as alleged news.
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Ayisha, no local demonstrations in Luxor??? I don't hear anything.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
just curious y would they block facebook for people who are in the streets mmm how would they tewwt as well..drag the computers to the streets and sit in plush chairs as they protest?doesnt that defeat the purpose of standing and protesting? although it would be funny seeing 999999 egyptians bringing their own chairs and sitting in front of parlimant...
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
There is no curfew. Where on Jazeera is it?
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
My FB never went down at all... I know I was seen as unavailable as I was sent a screenshot of my name reading unknown user to a comment I made on someones wall. But I have been able to access it all day. It must go regionally or something.
TK, many many many of us have hand helds that have internet.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: just curious y would they block facebook for people who are in the streets mmm how would they tewwt as well..drag the computers to the streets and sit in plush chairs as they protest?doesnt that defeat the purpose of standing and protesting? although it would be funny seeing 999999 egyptians bringing their own chairs and sitting in front of parlimant...
Lol, Tina, mobile phones.... you know 21st century technology?
Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Watch SUEZ!!!!!!!!
Aljazeera correspondence: wut is happening in Suez is literally BURNING the whole city bombs , fire on citizens hevy smog everywhere #jan25
"Confirmed: There is NO imposed Curfew in Cairo as of yet. DO NOT TWEET ABOUT A CURFEW. #JAN25 #25Jan 10 minutes ago via TweetDeck" http://twitter.com/Elazul/status/30316885702610944 Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I definitely couldn't access FB this afternoon for 2.5 hours or so between around 3pm and 530pm, yet I could via a proxy - but only to read not write anything so there was definitely a 'DNS resolution problem' of some sort between FB and Etisalat.
I also could only access twitter via search.twitter.com, not via twitter.com.
I think it depends on your ISP how much of a block you get. Remember all the b*s*t about Skype last year - vodafone blocked it right from the off (which they are prone to do globally anyway under the feeblest excuses) but the rest of us weren't touched.
I don't know what service you use to access it via your BB?
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: just curious y would they block facebook for people who are in the streets mmm how would they tewwt as well..drag the computers to the streets and sit in plush chairs as they protest?doesnt that defeat the purpose of standing and protesting? although it would be funny seeing 999999 egyptians bringing their own chairs and sitting in front of parlimant...
Lol, Tina, mobile phones.... you know 21st century technology?
sorry i am not up with technelogy..i hate them new smart phones my daughter has a touch screen one and ooo no trying to figure it out gives me a head ache. i will stick to a simple cell phone.with no internt. i have my home pc thats all the technology my brain can handle...
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
BB I have Vodafone and I have Etisalt USB.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I can confirm that I can access Google and Facebook directly (albeit slowly!) right now through my etisalat dongle from south west Cairo.
Twitter is timing out (as opposed to last night when it was blocked and saying 'server not found') but I can see it via search.twitter.com
PS Can also access youtube.com (and videos of the protest) and my gmail.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Simply proving it is not generic and everybody is being affected differently.. proving my point of not believing all I read Yes, it may apply to some, but not all.
I cannot load my gmail at all but FB is ok, I even got into Scrabble.
Skype is up, MSN is up and tv works as do my electics and running water Posted by Miss Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
BEST news of the evening:
Sources: ElBaradei expected in Egypt (Extra) Jan 26, 2011, 18:42 GMT
Berlin - Mohamed ElBaradei was expected in Cairo on Thursday, sources close to the opposition leader told the German Press Agency dpa on Wednesday.
Sources said ElBaradei planned to board a flight from Vienna that would see him land in the Egyptian capital in the evening.
The former International Atomic Energy Agency chief and Nobel Peace laureate was to arrive in his homeland as thousands of people took to the streets to protest against President Hosni Mubarak and poor living standards.
Found this site today. Not sure if it is listed in this thread anywhere as I've not clicked on every link, but this link does have good updated information.
Just a few pics I saw while catchin up on the BBC.
I don't know Adelly... sorry
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Miss Tigerlily: BEST news of the evening:
Sources: ElBaradei expected in Egypt (Extra) Jan 26, 2011, 18:42 GMT
Berlin - Mohamed ElBaradei was expected in Cairo on Thursday, sources close to the opposition leader told the German Press Agency dpa on Wednesday.
Sources said ElBaradei planned to board a flight from Vienna that would see him land in the Egyptian capital in the evening.
The former International Atomic Energy Agency chief and Nobel Peace laureate was to arrive in his homeland as thousands of people took to the streets to protest against President Hosni Mubarak and poor living standards.
Great news or should I say, big fucking deal.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
بيان أمني بشأن الوقفات الإحتجاجية بميدان التحرير
26 يناير, 2011
صرح مصدر أمنى.. أنه فى إطار إتاحة الفرصة لوقفات إحتجاجية للتعبير عن مطالب سياسية أو فئوية طوال الفترات السابقة توافقاً مع المسار الديمقراطى وإتاحة الفرصة للتعبير عن الرأى... وبالرغم من النهج الإثارى الذى تبناه المحرضون على التجمع يوم 25 الجارى بدعوى تصعيد مطالبهم.. وفى مقدمتهم جماعة الإخوان المحظور نشاطها ومايسمى بحركتى 6إبريل وكفاية وكذا الجمعية الوطنية للتعبير.. فقد تم السماح لهم بتنظيم الوقفات الإحتجاجية والتى تركزت بمدن القاهرة والجيزة والأسكندرية والغربية.. بينما شهدت بعض المحافظات الأخرى تجمعات محدودة تراوحة مابين المائة شخص والألف.. وقد إلتزمت قوات الشرطة منذ بداية هذا التحرك فى حوالى الحادية عشر صباحاً بتأمين تلك الوقفات وعدم التعرض لها..رغم جنوح مجموعة من تلك التجمعات بوسط مدينة القاهرة لتنظيم مسيرات مما أعاق حركة المرور بالكامل وتحويله الى محاور بديلة.. وحيث أصّر مُتزعمى تلك التجمعات على أسلوب التحريض وعدم الإستجابة لما تم إعلانهم به من ضرورة الإنصراف بعد أن تم التعبير عن رأيهم... إلا أنه فى حوالى الساعة الثالثة عصراً.. دفعت جماعة الإخوان المحظورة بأعداد كبيرة من عناصرها خاصة بميدان التحرير بالقاهرة حيث تجاوز عدد المُتجمهرين العشرة آلاف شخص... كما قام بعض المتجمهرين بإلقاء حجارة على القوات بشارع القصر العينى المتفرع من ميدان التحرير وإندفع عدد منهم إلى أعمال شغب وإحداث تلفيات بمنشآت عامة .. فضلاً عن إصابة عدد من أفراد قوات الشرطة نتيجة إستمرار قذف الحجارة... وحيث تمكنت قوات الشرطة من السيطرة على ما كان متوقعاً من إتساع أعمال التجمهر والشغب وتطويق المتظاهرين بميدان التحرير... مع تكرار إعلانهم بضرورة الإلتزام بالضوابط الشرعية والسبل القانونية للتعبير عن الرأى وعدم تهديد سلامة المنشآت العامة والخاصة وأمن وسلامة المواطنين. وإذ تناشد وزارة الداخلية أغلب المتجمعين بعدم الإنسياق وراء شعارات زائفة..يتبناها مُتزعمى هذا التحرك والذين يسعون لإستثمار الموقف ..فى تحدى سافر للشرعية... فإنها تؤكد على ضرورة إنهاء تلك التجمعات تفادياً لتداعيها على نحو يخل بالأمن العام.
Egypt: President's son and family 'have fled to the UK'
Cairo, 25 Jan. (AKI) - Gamal Mubarak, Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak's son who is widely tipped as his successor, has fled to London with his family, Arabic website Akhbar al-Arab said on Tuesday. The report came as violent unrest broke out in Cairo and other Egyptian cities and hundreds of thousands of people reportedly took to the streets in a Tunisia-inspired day of revolt.
Officials did not immediately confirm the report that Gamal Mubarak has fled to the British capital with his wife and daughter aboard a private jet.
The jet with Mubarak, his family and 97 pieces of luggage on board left for London on Tuesday from an airport in western Cairo, according to the US-based Akhbar al-Arab.
Weeks of unrest in Tunisia eventually toppled president Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali earlier this month. The anti-government protests in Egypt broke out after opposition groups waged an internet campaign inspired by the Tunisian uprising.
An anti-riot police officer was killed in clashes on Tuesday in central Cairo, Egyptian daily 'al-Wafd' reported. Egyptian security forces reported used tear gas, fire hoses, and clubs to disperse protesters in Tahrir Square, downtown Cairo.
Over 30,000 anti-government protesters had gathered. in Cairo's Maidan al-Tahrir square to take part in the 'day of anger', the spokesman for Egypt's '6 April' opposition movement, Mohammed Adel, told Adnkronos International (AKI) in an interview.
"Police used tear gas and water canon to break up our protest and they arrested 40 of us, but we don't have official figures on the numbers of arrests across Egypt," said Adel.
Supporters of the '6 April' movement, the opposition al-Ghad party, the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, the al-Wafd party and supporters of former UN nuclear watchdog chief Mohammed El Baradei took part in the protest.
The protesters want Egypt to end its 30-year state of emergency and pass a law preventing a president from serving more than two terms, and want the interior minister Habib al-Adly, to resign.
Al-Wafd daily said police arrested 600 people during Tuesday's protests in Cairo, Alexandria, Port Said, Tantan, al-Mahala, Asiut, al-Bahira and al-Quium.
Between 200,000 and 300,000 people took part in protests in these cities on Tuesday, according to the Rasad al-Ikhbari observatory, which is staffed by journalists and opposition activists.
Police set dogs on protesters in Port Said and charged protesters in Suez and al-Mahala, an unnamed activist from Rasad al-Ikhbari told AKI.
Protests are rare in Egypt, where Mubarak tolerates little dissent.
US secretary of state Hillary Clinton said on Tuesday Washington believed the Egyptian government was stable and urged restraint on both sides
THE HAGUE, Netherlands — Dutch police said they stopped a man from setting himself on fire in front of the Egyptian embassy in The Hague.
Police said the 52-year-old was carrying a banner, had soaked himself in flammable liquid and was trying to spark a lighter when they blinded him with pepper spray and wrestled him to the ground.
In a statement Wednesday, police said the man — of Egyptian ancestry — has been taken into custody and his motives are unknown.
The incident occurred while Egypt's government is facing widespread protests.
Several people in Egypt have set themselves alight recently, replicating the actions of a Tunisian vegetable seller. His self-immolation sparked protests that brought down Tunisia's government.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
REVOLUTION If Egypt falls They Will All Fall (much more quicker). Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
The road is long still and very very bloody.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
If the people who intend on taking power from Mubarak are in any way intelligent they would do exactly what they did in Tunis. That is, push Mubarak out to appear like a people's revolution has taken place and then install themselves in power in a show of democracy. That would defuse, be it for short time, people's anger and give hope for change. Of course they're just too fucking stupid and my guess is that this will take more time and end up a true revolution.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: If the people who intend on taking power from Mubarak are in any way intelligent they would do exactly what they did in Tunis. That is, push Mubarak out to appear like a people's revolution has taken place and then install themselves in power in a show of democracy. That would defuse, be it for short time, people's anger and give hope for change. Of course they're just too fucking stupid and my guess is that this will take more time and end up a true revolution.
So far, this is a spontaneous people's revolt, there's no leader and nobody 'intending to take power' has been involved. That's what's scary. In Tunisia Ben Ali fled of his own accord, and his henchmen tried to take over, early days yet over there. In Egypt, there is no organized popular opposition because nobody's been allowed to form one. That's the catastrophe, democracy takes time, Mubarak should have allowed political parties to form so the country could transition peacefully.
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Mubarak's radio silence
By Issandr El Amrani January 27, 2011 at 1:59 AM Share
To date, apart from Foreign Ministry spokesman Hossam Zaki's phoned-in appearances on CNN and al-Jazeera to explain that a) the protests are being exaggerated by the media and b) they prove that Egypt is democratic, I have not seen any reaction by the Egyptian government to the biggest protests in decades.
The explanation is simple: Mubarak does not want to stoop to responding to these protests.
If you only knew Hosni as I do, you'd know he's terribly stubborn. He likes to dig in his heels. He won't be forced into a decision. He is a like a gamoosa (water buffalo, as common as cows in Egypt) that just won't be moved off a railroad track. This is his strength and weakness: this stubbornness can be determination (in the 1980s and 1990s, against radical Islamists), but it can also be his Achilles' heel, his inability move quickly to grab opportunities.
Hosni Mubarak could have defused this situation a long time ago — made sure it never happened. He could have ensured that parliamentary elections were fairer and freer and allowed some political plurality that did not threaten him. He could have dismissed Interior Minister Habib al-Adly a long time ago and given orders that police had to stop torturing everyone it dealt with. He could have shown flexibility and political deftness, engaging and cajoling those in the legal opposition who could have been relays to channel popular sentiments rather than pathetic has-beens. But Hosni Mubarak has grown used to being the alpha and omega, he is sui generis, his hand cannot be forced.
Well, immovable object, meet unstoppable force.
He will not address the youth that are taking to the streets and risking their lives to make the point that they are sick and tired of his reign. Even if he speaks, it will be to a different audience, and his speeches will not convince. "Je vous ai compris" said Ben Ali in his last speech — mais il n'avait rien compris! Likewise the government, represented by Prime Minister Ahmed Nazif, may announce grand new measures like new social spending and maybe some political concessions. Nazif could even lose his job (perversely more likely than al-Adly). At most, this will only buy a little time.
The complete inability of anyone in the Egyptian government to address these issues is telling of the dysfunction of the state in the late Mubarak era. Ministers cannot take initiative and do anything, because the president is the one who decides. The president cannot decide, his advisors can only cook up something for the ministers to say. Paralysis reigns, because there cannot be a coordinated response in a regime that is fundamentally fragmented, engaged in turf wars, and whose head has been drained of vitality. This is the crisis of governance in today's Egypt: the various parts of the body act independently according to pre-ordained patterns and individual interests, but cannot coordinate.
quote:Originally posted by this: If the people who intend on taking power from Mubarak are in any way intelligent they would do exactly what they did in Tunis. That is, push Mubarak out to appear like a people's revolution has taken place and then install themselves in power in a show of democracy. That would defuse, be it for short time, people's anger and give hope for change. Of course they're just too fucking stupid and my guess is that this will take more time and end up a true revolution.
So far, this is a spontaneous people's revolt, there's no leader and nobody 'intending to take power' has been involved. That's what's scary. In Tunisia Ben Ali fled of his own accord, and his henchmen tried to take over, early days yet over there. In Egypt, there is no organized popular opposition because nobody's been allowed to form one. That's the catastrophe, democracy takes time, Mubarak should have allowed political parties to form so the country could transition peacefully.
Well this might all change today when Mohamed El Baradei is returning back to Egypt (when they let him enter then).
Egypt's opposition which roams the streets right now needs a leader, someone to look up to and to guide them through this very important time.
El Baradei just posted couple of hours on his twitter account:
"We shall continue to exercise our right of peaceful demonstration and restore our freedom & dignity. Regime violence will backfire badly"
Stay tuned.
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Nobel laureate Mohamed ElBaradei is headed back to Egypt despite direct threats against his life. On the eve of his return, the former U.N. official who is the Mubarak regime's most high-profile opponent on the young people who’ve taken to the streets, political Islam, and the role of the United States.
What's truly great is that Egyptians are shedding their fear of the regime. There is a photo of a middle aged man with a sign that reads “Be Warned My Name Is bu (abu) azzizi.” What's striking about this is that it was unthinkable to dare or test the regime. Shahdi Hamid of the Brookings Institution wrote “large pro-democracy protests may have broken the psychological barrier of fear among Egyptians.”
Israel is nervous, very nervous. The US is nervous too and there is growing talk that Obama will soon publicly distance himself from Mubarak. This may be the first sign from the US to look beyond Mubarak and his regime, and not because they want to but because they have to.
ElBaradei is not the answer but he can play a role in garnering international attention. Europeans and Washington see him and think okay that is a level headed man. Egyptian youth are however disenchanted with him and his apathetic tendencies.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
anything planned for today?
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: What's truly great is that Egyptians are shedding their fear of the regime. There is a photo of a middle aged man with a sign that reads “Be Warned My Name Is bu (abu) azzizi.” What's striking about this is that it was unthinkable to dare or test the regime. Shahdi Hamid of the Brookings Institution wrote “large pro-democracy protests may have broken the psychological barrier of fear among Egyptians.”
Israel is nervous, very nervous. The US is nervous too and there is growing talk that Obama will soon publicly distance himself from Mubarak. This may be the first sign from the US to look beyond Mubarak and his regime, and not because they want to but because they have to.
ElBaradei is not the answer but he can play a role in garnering international attention. Europeans and Washington see him and think okay that is a level headed man. Egyptian youth are however disenchanted with him and his apathetic tendencies.
First Hillary Clinton seemed to have another kind of message, and then, suddenly, that swing by the statement of Obama! Yes, they have fear! El Baradei won't be harmed, he is too famous and in the centre of attention of the media. The government prefers to arrest NotThatImportantPersons, as many as possible. To scare them and to take away opposition.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
especially the logo, 'we are Legion'
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Now in Yemen xloubellxx: RT @BreakingNews: Thousands of Yemenis take to the streets of capital Sanaa demanding change in government, inspired by unrest in Egypt, Tunisia - Reuters
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: I found this quite chilling
Remember the fall of the wall in Berlin? Nobody expected this would happen, and all the communistic countries followed, including the biggest one: USSR. Thanks to the people in Eastern Germany suddenly doing what they never dared...
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: Remember the fall of the wall in Berlin? Nobody expected this would happen, and all the communistic countries followed, including the biggest one: USSR. Thanks to the people in Eastern Germany suddenly doing what they never dared...
Exactly QM, just needs to get the ball rolling and it snowballs. My friend was actually there when the wall came down in Germany.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
In other news Cairo Stock Exchange plumets 2nd day in a row, and actually more than yesterday. Losses now are 44 Billion L.E (21 yesterday, 23 today)
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
“All we can do is express our support for Mubarak and hope the riots pass quietly” - Ben Elizer (Israeli Knesset Member)
With friends like that .....
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Al-Jazeera Correspondent Abdulrahman Ramahan in Suez: Clashes rage for second consecutive day. Security Reinforcements heading to Suez. Heavy clashes. Explosions. Live Ammunition. Buildings Burning.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
OMG LET IT BE TRUE. It has to come from the Army. It has to!
URGENT Suez: reports that some army units refused to support the police to confront the demonstrators, and the acceptance of other units, and did not intervene until now.
Tweet Gamal Eid by Lawyer and executive director The Arabic Network for Human Rights Information
عاجل السويس: انباء عن أن بعض وحدات الجيش رفضت دعم الشرطة لمواجهة المتظاهرين ، وقبول وحدات أخرى ،وان لم تتدخل حتى الان
Posted by weirdkitty (Member # 15365) on :
Returned to say despite my bragging posts on FB yesterday, FB and twitter are now down in Giza.
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
# Jan25 If you are injured … If you are a doctor… لو كنت مصاب أو طبيب Date posted: January 26, 2011
Tagged with: egypt January 25 Protest If you are injured do not go to public hospitals! They have orders to report injured protesters!
لو كنت مصاب ماتروحش على مستشفى حكومى … عندهم تعليمات بالتبليغ عن التظاهرين المصابين
Go to one of the following addresses:
روح على واحد من العناوين دى
Al Nadeem Center – النديم
٣أ شارع سليمان الحلبي متفرع من شارع رمسيس القاهرة
Hisham Mubarak – هشام مبارك
واحد شارع سوق التوفيقية – الدور الخامس – وسط البلد – القاهرة
If you are a doctor and you are willing to help take first aid kit and medical supplies, and go to the same addresses!
لو كنت طبيب و عايز تساعد خد معاك عدة اسعافات أولية و أدواتك الطبية و روح على نفس العناوين اللى فوق
Tagged with: egypt January 25 Protest
+ instructions how to handle in case of teargas.
In Suez a policestration is burning. About the army: in case of situationslike this an army could decide to 'sacrifice' the president and place another puppet in his place. This is NOT a good solution!
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
ok it's 13.42 and I'm a bit west of Giza and I'm on FB and Twitter with no problems. I'm guessing these are localised outages possibly based on traffic? That said, I am using a USB Dongle NOT TEData.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Got mine too. And I am dongle-less.
I have been advised to not even leave my home tomorrow, bit excessive but folk my side of town are fearing the worst.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Reports of protests outside helwan metro st? Is this real? Thats closest to maadi ive heard bout. Hubby dying to ge involved, but im afraid he would get hurt.
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
This is NOT a good solution! Agree.
I'd be more comfortable with this if the protesters had a real viable opposition party in mind. 'BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR'. I know they have grievances, and they are very brave to voice their dissatisfaction, food prices high, no jobs, heavy handed police etc, , but that pretty much applies to everywhere at the moment. Just hope that this place doesn't end up with a 'president' in a military uniform. That road tends to lead to machetes in the streets. Protests can lead to changed attitudes in governments, as well as voters. And people are getting HURT out there.
Posted by weirdkitty (Member # 15365) on :
I live in a rather "village" like area not far from haram street, and using USB. All other sites seem fine, however FB amd Twitter are just plan white screens. I can get on via my iphone though.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
A British journalist working out here was tear gased last night, I wouldn't be stepping near the trouble tbh.
If my dongle goes white screen it is generally the volume of traffic. There are times during the evening at weekends I don't even bother to try to open up pages.
Adelly, try to keep hubby away... people are fighting like animals and it would be senseless to get involved.
Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: Reports of protests outside helwan metro st? Is this real? Thats closest to maadi ive heard bout. Hubby dying to ge involved, but im afraid he would get hurt.
They are also talking outside the Ministry of Communications in Smart Village. That's Maadi too isn't it? The new complex recently built off LaSelki St? Or is there another Smart Village in Cairo?
My husband was talking about going out today also.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Smart Village is up the Alex Desert Road on the way to the Toll. It's where most if not all the telecoms cos here have their main offices.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I am supposed to have coffee with friend near el maadi station tomorrow. I dont think thats dangerous, is it?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Re: egyptian army
It's better to have the Army on the side of the people than against. It is vitally important that the Army keep its hands clean. They will be required to play an important security role if a transitional government takes over. Power will be wrestled away from the “Police State” and that means stripping powers from interior ministry. Ranking police officers will be stripped of their powers and to achieve this the Army will have to take part. The likelihood of another dictator taking over is as likely as Gamal Mubarak becoming the next President of Egypt. It's not happening.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: I am supposed to have coffee with friend near el maadi station tomorrow. I dont think thats dangerous, is it?
Keep in mind there is mosque near Maadi Station and another one near Sakanat Maadi Station. Maadi is as rowdy as baby hamster though.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Adelly, judge in the morning as so much is supposed to have been happening and never did and although Ma'adi may be affected it also may not be... Yesterday Korba was meant to have protest walks according to some sources but it never transpired.
Forgive me for stating the obvious... but just assess it at the time I have LOADS planned for the weekend and I am not cancelling or rearranging unless I know 100% that I have to.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Re: egyptian army
It's better to have the Army on the side of the people than against. It is vitally important that the Army keep its hands clean. They will be required to play an important security role if a transitional government takes over. Power will be wrestled away from the “Police State” and that means stripping powers from interior ministry. Ranking police officers will be stripped of their powers and to achieve this the Army will have to take part. The likelihood of another dictator taking over is as likely as Gamal Mubarak becoming the next President of Egypt. It's not happening.
I feel if the army got on the side of the people the protests may become better organisd. What do you think of the April youth movement or NAC?
quote:Originally posted by adelly: I am supposed to have coffee with friend near el maadi station tomorrow. I dont think thats dangerous, is it?
Do not leave the building tomorrow. Large protests are planned right after the Friday prayers everywhere.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Re: egyptian army
It's better to have the Army on the side of the people than against. It is vitally important that the Army keep its hands clean. They will be required to play an important security role if a transitional government takes over. Power will be wrestled away from the “Police State” and that means stripping powers from interior ministry. Ranking police officers will be stripped of their powers and to achieve this the Army will have to take part. The likelihood of another dictator taking over is as likely as Gamal Mubarak becoming the next President of Egypt. It's not happening.
I feel if the army got on the side of the people the protests may become better organisd. What do you think of the April youth movement or NAC?
Quite frankly and this is my opinion, I believe Egypt and the Arab World as a whole are entering unchartered territory. The April 6 movement and NAC, IMHO would only serve a temporary role. It's a new Era, and with 80 million people, I foresee many political parties but of course an eventual moderate coalition.
We are getting ahead of ourselves, HM will not relinquish power so easily.
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: I feel if the army got on the side of the people the protests may become better organisd.
Ha, the army is devoted to its highest leader - Hosni Mubarak.
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Thursday, January 27, 2011
#Jan25-Thursday: Major Updates
The Egyptian stock exchange was reopened after being suspended earlier this morning due to the losses and the withdrawal. The Egyptian businessmen before the foreign businessmen are trying to get their money as soon as possible to flee the country.
The foreign investors are selling the governmental bonds.
The Egyptian pound is continue to fall.
Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei will return to Cairo at 7PM CLT and he will have a press conference at the airport. The Egyptian opposition leader is saying that it is time for Mubarak to leave.
There is a news that there is some kind of labor protest in Helwan governorate , Helwan district has got many factories and labor population that has been suffering from long time. There is a protest formed in Abassiya.
Last night “26/1” there were clashes in Cairo , protesters again had marches near the ministry of foreign affairs where they clashed with the security forces. The gate of the ministry of foreign affairs was reportedly smashed. One CSF and one protesters were reportedly killed.
There is a lot of anticipation considering tomorrow , there is a rumor that the security forces will close the mosques down town.
Pope Shnouda III is calling the Egyptian Christians not to participate in the protests but I feel based on my observation that his call may not find an appeal , there is a lot of hope and the Egyptian Christians are not less patriotic than Egyptian Muslims.The pope called the people to calm down only , he did not ask directly for anything
Barclays Bank Egypt has transferred its Down town branch to other branches due to the unstable situation Down town Cairo. Other banks in the area gave orders to its employees to leave earlier if they do not have anything to do.
There is a news that people are trying to organize a silent protest in front of the ministry of telecommunication at the Smart village “6th of October governorate”. People have received SMS calling them for a silent protest.
200 detainees “mostly arrested from Tuesday protest” have been released today among them Egyptian journalist Mohamed Abdel Kudous from The Jabal Al Ahamr CSF camp. We already knew that 10 journalists threatened to start food strike yesterday if the protesters would not released.
149 protesters are facing up to 25 years in jail The MOI is insisting that it only arrested 500 protesters while activists are speaking of thousands
Gamal Mubarak is to be in the country and is having a meeting with the NDP members where as the Daily Mail is repeating the claims or the rumors that he arrived to London with his family along with 100 Piece of luggage. We will see if he is Cairo or London still it was good to see that most if not all of the comments in DM do not welcome him there.
Israeli Debka claims that minister of defense is in the States asking for help , of course the report is a bit hysterical .it is worth to mention that general Sami El-Anan , our chief of staff is already there in an official visit.
The NDP will have a press conference today.
There are currently two protests in Alexandria , a big one in Asfara and a small one in Bakkous 3 prosecution offices have released 166 detainees.
So Gamal did not leave Egypt as it was previously claimed.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Exiled, if you were here would you be out protesting?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Exiled, if you were here would you be out protesting?
Yes, I would help them be more organized.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Well exiiled, when I am out and about tomorrow I will carry a clipboard and wear an earpiece and see if I can get them to throw in a formation
On the road now, all that I have seen is e guys trying to yank a banner down with mubaraks face on. But in Misr Gedida I can confirm all is well.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I might be safer out. My building is beside a mosque. My balcony faces mosque. Thats why i like living here because of mosque
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Well exiiled, when I am out and about tomorrow I will carry a clipboard and wear an earpiece and see if I can get them to throw in a formation
On the road now, all that I have seen is e guys trying to yank a banner down with mubaraks face on. But in Misr Gedida I can confirm all is well.
Make sure you have a homemade teargas mask with you.
I'm very good at playing “Civilization 4”, so I know I have strategy skills. You know what's most interesting so far? It's Suez, they are much more effective and aggressive there, and I wonder why. I am sure it is because of better protester leadership. I am trying to find why exactly, and I have several ideas, one of which is a larger Bedouin population, and Bedouins are natural fighters. This is just a mere guess, but what is transpiring in Suez is interesting to say the least.
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
In Suez they already are in civilisation 5. Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: In Suez they already are in civilisation 5.
Yeah I need to upgrade.
The one thing I am wondering is why hasn't Mubarak ordered more brutal force to subdue the protesters. I am guessing it is because he has one foot in Egypt and another one out. He knows very well as does the interior minister that if they initiate a slaughter, it can very well come back to haunt them. The West might be Mubarak's bedmate but that is only true while he is still in power. If he is no longer in power then the West will shun him like they are shunning Ben Ali and possible even charge him with crimes.
As for the Suez protesters, I admire them, they burned down a NDP building and two police stations. That is worth admiring. The residents of Cairo should also burn down police stations where torture is all too common. “Black Bloc” tactics might be appropriate.
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
» DailyNewsEgypt The Daily News Egypt ElBaradei ready to 'lead the transition' in Egypt if asked http://tinyurl.com/4sjlcfd #jan25 #fb 5 minutes ago
"Nobel peace laureate and leading dissident Mohamed ElBaradei said Thursday he was ready to "lead the transition" in Egypt if asked, as he left Vienna for Cairo where he was due to join in mass anti-government protests. "If people, in particularly young people, if they want me to lead the transition I will not let them down". Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Only problem with burning down police stations (well, wait, there's more than one issue to that!) is what if there are prisoners inside? And innocent ones at that? No one deserves to die in a fire that way. Same worry I had about protesters tipping the police trucks, what if there were prisoners inside.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Only problem with burning down police stations (well, wait, there's more than one issue to that!) is what if there are prisoners inside? And innocent ones at that? No one deserves to die in a fire that way. Same worry I had about protesters tipping the police trucks, what if there were prisoners inside.
It's a revolution Loved One, and Che Guevara's quotes puts things in perspective “the ends justifies the means.”
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
If the people volunteer to protest, then sure, they should know the risk before they get into something like that. But what if the people in jail had nothing to do with the protests but were there on other charges, false or not?
I tend to disagree with that quote. Quite a bit actually.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Another death. This one in sinai, a 22 year old.
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
I guess it's easy to be a cheerleader for violence when you are thousands of miles away, and don't have friends out there on the street. Yeah, these people are brave, but you can be just as brave if you get your message accross without murdering strangers.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
You are trying to rationalize a revolution, and that is understandable to some extent. But Egypt has a brutal ruthless regime and the people are fighting back and sometimes with consequences.
Aljazeera Correspondent in Suez, Deena whatsherlastname, sounds rattled. 8 dead now, 7 in Suez, 1 in Sinai.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Vodafone internet on handhelds blocked over my way.
We can still send and receive calls and SMS but BBM and net have died No BBM... wtf!
Etisalat still running...
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Unfortunately, i agree with exiled. I am in egypt an have many friends and loved ones here. The govt here is cruel and heartless. They have stayed in power this long by listening to reason. Its going to take much sacrifice to achieve anything. This govt has too much support from countries like usa. They wont withdraw support without drastic reason.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Are you willing to sacrifice your own life for this? What about your husbands life? Your friends or other family?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Are you willing to sacrifice your own life for this? What about your husbands life? Your friends or other family?
You are making this personal by asking adelly this. This transcends a person or entire family. Egypt wants to freedom like Tunisa, well Tunisians didn't hand out flowers.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
Soon the military will jump in to finish up the matter..this is what's expected if escalation occurs,we've seen it before on several occasions during Sadat days (Jan 1977) and early Mubarak rule (Feb 1986).
This regime is very well established, as the army, like with the police force, is part of the corrupt system, we Egyptians know that for a fact...nothing will change, maybe Mubarak will reconsider running for elections but nothing else will happen.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by this: If the people who intend on taking power from Mubarak are in any way intelligent they would do exactly what they did in Tunis. That is, push Mubarak out to appear like a people's revolution has taken place and then install themselves in power in a show of democracy. That would defuse, be it for short time, people's anger and give hope for change. Of course they're just too fucking stupid and my guess is that this will take more time and end up a true revolution.
So far, this is a spontaneous people's revolt, there's no leader and nobody 'intending to take power' has been involved. That's what's scary. In Tunisia Ben Ali fled of his own accord, and his henchmen tried to take over, early days yet over there. In Egypt, there is no organized popular opposition because nobody's been allowed to form one. That's the catastrophe, democracy takes time, Mubarak should have allowed political parties to form so the country could transition peacefully.
There are always people who are in waiting and some who are not looking for a position in office but still in power and I mean full control. In most cases that would be the people who are in control of the army. Only when they loose control of the army have they truly lost power and that hasn't happened and will not happen easily. It takes a lot more than a few protests to affect the loyalty of the leadership of the army and even the average soldier.
I still believe that what happened in Tunis was exactly as I described, the people who are in control simply wanted the president out and took advantage of the protests to give him the impression that he was in danger. They pulled their support.
Look at history in Egypt, Algeria and even Turkey, nothing happens without the approval of the army leadership. Nothing. In Sadat's time, and I witnessed it myself, he sent tanks to the streets and live fire was a must in any protest. Protests, no matter how popular, can be put down with violence. The only exception is an all out semi civil war. The people actually taking arm against the government.(That also failed in Algeria)
Mubarak lasted this long because of support of the military and will go when he dies or looses their support. Regardless of how he goes, the result will depend on the people who cease control. If they want change, they will start cutting loose all those who are associated with Mubarak and and let honest politicians in, if they don't care for genuine change, and that is the likely scenario then it is another dictator and on with the show.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
If you people want to argue that lives need to be sacrificed, I think it's a valid question to ask whose lives it's okay to sacrifice?
I'm not willing to give up mine or my husbands, or anyone I know.
Exactly who is it that it's okay to let die for this?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Soon the military will jump in to finish up the matter..this is what's expected if escalation occurs,we've seen it before on several occasions during Sadat days (Jan 1977) and early Mubarak rule (Feb 1986).
This regime is very well established, as the army, like with the police force, is part of the corrupt system, we Egyptians know that for a fact...nothing will change, maybe Mubarak will reconsider running for elections but nothing else will happen.
Exactly, too bad I did not read your post before writing my reply to Citizen.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: If you people want to argue that lives need to be sacrificed, I think it's a valid question to ask whose lives it's okay to sacrifice?
I'm not willing to give up mine or my husbands, or anyone I know.
Exactly who is it that it's okay to let die for this?
You can express your opinion without making it personal was my point. And to answer your question, the people who want Freedom the most.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: If you people want to argue that lives need to be sacrificed, I think it's a valid question to ask whose lives it's okay to sacrifice?
I'm not willing to give up mine or my husbands, or anyone I know.
Exactly who is it that it's okay to let die for this?
It is not OK and it need not, it is inevitable. You have two groups who are fighting for the same thing, only two possible outcomes, one or both sides relent or a fight to victory.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
Nothing will come in power without the military's consent..end of story. Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Vodafone back up.... thank god... I had BBM withdrawal.
For anyone in Cairo actually interested, I just heard from someone in the know and she has been informed by several different people that tomorrow Salah Salem will be a target tomorrow. Disclaimer: This too could be Shwitter... (**** and Twitter which I just invented)
If it is true watch out for me on the News Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
"This is the article written by Amr Salama here: http://on.fb.me/gMnI3h I took the time to translate it since I wanted more people to read it:
'I feel that it is my duty right now to get the word out about all what has happened during the historic Anger Day demonstrations, to prevent false and untrue statements and also to prevent people from getting the wrong message off what happened to me or to other protesters.
And it is a duty for anyone who has been subjected to violence, insult, torture or unfair arrest to tell his/her story in total transparency for the people to understand the hardship of the experience.
Not only to expose the violations done by the Egyptian riot police, but also to expose the little positive things that occurred in between, to give hope to the people, and to make them understand why the current events are taking place.
I will tell my story briefly, for those who don’t know it.
We were leading the demonstration in front of Dar Al Hekma in Al Qasr Al Ainy St., and there was a cordon of riot police surrounding us. We really wanted to break through so we can join the bigger protest in Tahrir Sq.
At around 2 or 3 pm, we decided to try to break through, no matter what it took.
Strongly motivated, I was one of the first-liners as we pushed through lines of soldiers and we finally broke through and on to the street. We ran to the streets leading to the square.
The street was totally vacant of people, and in the horizon I could see a mass of people. At first I thought they were protesters but then I noticed that they all were dressed in black, coming in our direction and holding black sticks. I remembered the scenes from old war movies, like Braveheart and Gladiator, and I had the exact feeling of old battle grounds, and I found myself one of the first people to run towards the approaching lines of police. Also, there were some people trying to escape through side streets but they were easily cornered. A moment later, we were under attack.
I had my dear iPhone in hand, and I was trying to take photos or record videos, until I got surrounded by a large enough amount of soldiers who started beating me ferociously with their sticks, delivering painful blows on my head, face, stomach and legs.
Then, came in from between them the respectable commando officer whose face I will never, ever forget, and he started beating me in the face in a way I never imagined a human body could survive. Then he grabbed my dear iPhone, threw it to the ground, and started hitting it hard with his feet, until it was smashed to pieces. Then he seemed to get back to his normal state of mind, and he said “Let go, stop hitting him” to the soldiers. In a glimpse of hope I thanked God, thinking the man has finally heard the voice of the goodness inside of him. Then he continued, “...there are cameras around.” Then, he dragged me to a side street and as we walked we saw a young man lying on the ground, and a terrifying amount of blood coming from a wound in his head. The officer said, “Here, another ****** is dead. I swear to God I will kill you just like him, you son of a ******.” Then we entered a building, the nice soldiers escorting, he locked the entrance, tripped my legs and got me on the ground, then started the painful episode of vicious beating.
He delivered blows to my head and stomach, and the soldiers hit me with their sticks, too. One of them broke a wooden subject that I couldn’t recognize and started hitting me with it in every inch of my body. A mixture of insults were thrown around, like “you son of a *****”, “We’ve been in the streets since last night because of you *****”. I started trying to tell them “Do you even realize why you’re trying to stop us now? “ He replied, “You’re trying to show me how educated you are, *****?” I obviously taunted and teased him more, so he started hitting me even harder. Through my screams I tried to say how I was doing all this for them, how I am an Egyptian citizen just like him. Of course my words weren’t clear through all the noise and while he was delivering his verbal and physical blows, my words weren’t of any significance whatsoever.
A while later, he started to get exhausted. He told the soldiers, “I want him dead, like that guy we saw in the gutter. If he’s not dead when I get back I will kill you. If you’re hungry, eat him up.” Then he left, and for another 10 minutes I was brutally beaten up. I was puzzled at how I was still alive. And now, 36 hours later, I swear to God I can still feel the pain in every centimeter of my body.
The funny thing is, at that time, I reached a state where I was absolutely numb, not feeling a glimpse of pain. I said my prayers, and started getting visions. Visions about my family, how this was going to affect them, about the movie that I hadn’t finished directing yet, about the page that would be created about me on Facebook, and I wondered if it would have the title “We all are Amr Salama”. I also thought about the statement the Ministry of Interior would issue, saying that I must have died after accidently swallowing my iPhone.
Then I started to scream. I screamed as loud as I could. I told the soldiers how I was protesting for THEIR sake, that I had a mobile, a car, and money, how I didn’t at all suffer in my daily life.
And for reasons unknown they finally heard me, and stopped. One of them was greatly touched and he started getting them away from me. He got me a chair and asked me if I could walk. After a moment of silence, I said “I’ll try.” He told me that I should run fast before the officer returns and that if he returns now he’s going to murder me. I got up and tried to run but unfortunately the officer did return, and he thought I was trying to escape. The soldiers pretended to be stopping me, so I took another round of beating that made the first one seem like a Walt Disney cartoon from the 1940’s.
A while later someone else got the officer’s attention. Another officer showed up, asked me about my name and occupation, saw my ID then told me to run fast before the other officer gets back to me.
I ran for a while before the pains started manifesting throughout my body, followed by headaches and dizziness. My eyes started tearing uncontrollably, I wasn’t crying but I totally lost control over my nerves.
I arrived at a friend’s workplace in downtown, where he agreed to have me. I sat down and he got me something to drink. He left me alone, and then I found myself crying as I never cried before.
I wasn’t crying because of pain, humiliation or terror. I cried for one reason: I found myself starting to hate Egypt. I found myself starting to feel that the soldiers who were supposed to protect it made me hate it, that its oppressing and unfair government made me hate it. Its negative people, insisted on being negative and never stood with us protesters. It all overwhelmed me, the corruption, unfairness, oppression, and all other things. How dare I make another human being rule this country? How could I get him to love it, fight for it, and belong to it? I started thinking; why not leave it when I get a chance? I remembered when a dear friend once said, “Egypt’s only future is immigration to Canada.”
A couple of minutes later, the voice of reason became once more audible – it’s not the voice of reason, for sure, but it always has put me in trouble – then I reminded myself of my beliefs, for which I’m writing this article, to share them with the world.
I remembered that my belonging to Egypt isn’t obligatory, it’s my own choice, I chose it because it’s important for me, not for Egypt. It’s important for me to know where I’m from, where I belong, where my house is, where my bed is, where I feel that I have arrived, not waiting to go anywhere else.
I remembered that I should always stay positive of wherever I have chosen to belong to, and be optimistic, whatsoever, that this place will be better because of me and those around me.
I honestly would rather not live, if life’s without hope or sincerity. If I live without these two things I will only turn into an animal, an insignificant being only wanting to eat, sleep and enjoy temporary delights that will never feed my soul. My choice is final and I have no intention to re-think it, whatsoever.
Even if the world sees me as a hopeless romantic or a dreamer, I really don’t care. I will always be happy and satisfied with my choice, regardless of the consequences.
I discovered that the most important thing is that I realized these things, that I know why I was beaten, why I protested, and that I know that without signs and complex political demands I understood why I endured all this. I endured all this because I want a better Egypt, a better Egypt without absolute ongoing power to anyone of its governors, and a better Egypt without a large gap in social structure. The poor stays poor but at least has the basic human rights of dignity and properly satisfied human survival needs. I want my future son to get proper education and medical treatment. I want him/her to have hopes or ambitions of any kind even if he/she wants to reach presidency. I want a better Egypt where police protects the people rather than doing what was done to me and many other protesters in every police department and street, rather than what was done to martyrs like Khaled Saeed and Sayyed Belaal. I want a better Egypt where anyone who has a right can go to a police department to demand it without any fear of being ignored; he/she will find the officer ready and willing to help them rather than being stationed elsewhere, doing nothing but watching black cars and bodyguards passing by since morning, rather than being nothing but a blind follower and protector of a system that already has failed to give him his own rights of proper payment and life, a system that left him standing to take all the hate that was originally directed to the system.
When I got beaten and tortured, I realized that my fear has lessened and that I will protest again and again. I also realized that if I die, I shall be a martyr and I shall be in a better place.
I realized that the soldiers who hit me had no idea why they were doing it, and they felt they had unreasonable motives, even if they stayed up all night trying to make sense out of it. The soldiers had sympathy for me and were probably more afraid than I was, afraid of punishment or worse.
I most importantly realized that there IS hope, hope to see Egypt not only as liberated as Tunis but also in a place better than I could ever imagine. A place I would want to have kids at so they would live a good life full of dignity, and make it even better.
I am not calling myself a hero, and I have indeed seen people who were more brutally hit and arrested. Those who died at the protests are of course labeled as martyrs. If you ever get to talk to these people, they’re all proud of themselves. They’re all with less fear, more will, and a feeling of self-righteousness. They all got out stronger, more motivated and hopeful than ever. They believe that the light at the end of the tunnel is indeed there, no matter how long it takes to reach it.
The most important thing is that I realized that a lot of quotes are exceptionally true and are not just words, like “What doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger”.' "
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Anyone having trouble connecting to facebook??
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
original arabic version: الغضب التاريخي، منعا للمغالطات و منعا إن الناس يوصلها معنى و درس مستفاد خاطىء من اللي حصلي أو حصل لغيري.
و واجب على أي حد إتعرض للعنف أو للإهانة أو للتعذيب أ للإعتقال إنه يقول قصته بشفافية للناس عشان يعرفوا تجربته و اللي إستفاده منها.
مش عشان يفضح إنتهاكات جهاز الشرطة بس، بالعكس عشان كمان يقول لو كان فيه قصص و معاني إيجابية حصلت و يدي أمل للناس و يعرفهم إن في معنى ورا اللي حصله و بيحصل لمصر دلوقتي.
أنا هحكي القصة بإختصار للي مايعرفهاش.
إحنا كنا متظاهرين أمام دار الحكمة في شارع القصر العيني، و كان في كردون من العساكر و الظباط محاوطنا، و كان نفسنا نروح للناس الثانية اللي واقفين في ميدان التحرير.
على الساعة إثنين أو ثلاثة العصر قررنا إننا نحاول نروحلهم بأي شكل و اللي يحصل يحصل.
بدافع الإندفاع كنت من أوائل الناس اللي بيزقوا العساكر و فعلا إخترفنا العساكر و جرينا في إتجاه التحرير و مجلس الشعب.
و كان الشارع فاضي تماما، و في الأفق شفت بشر كثير، كنت فاكرهم متظاهرين لحد ما خدت بالي إن كلهم لابسين إسود و جايين نحيتنا و معاهم عصيان سودا، و إفتكرت مشاهد أفلام الحروب زي بريف هارت و جلادياتور، و عرفت إحساس الحروب القديمة، و لقيت نفسي بجري عليهم في طليعة الناس، و لقيت ناس بتحاول تهرب منا إحنا في الشوارع الجانبية بس واضح إنهم حاصروهم فرجعوا ثاني، لحظة من البلبلة ثم الإنقضاض منهم علينا.
و كان معايا الآي فون بتاعي العزيز بحاول أصور كل ده.
إلى أن إجتمع حولي عدد لا بئس به من العساكر، و عملوا حواليا دايرة و بدأوا الضرب بعصيانهم على دماغي و وشي و بطني و رجليا.
و دخل قائدهم الظابط المحترم المغوار اللي مش هنسى وشه ليوم الدين و بدأ يضربني بالبونيات على وشي بشكل لم أكن أتخيل أن جسم البني آدم ممكن أن يتحمله، و خد الآي فون العزيز الله يرحمه و داسه على الأرض و قعد يتنطط عليه ثم فاق لنفسه و قالهم "سيبوه، بطلوا ضرب" قلت الحمد لله ضميره صحي، فأكمل "عشان الكاميرات" و خدني و دخل بيا شارع جانبي و لقينا في سكتنا شاب ملقي على الأرض و دماغه نازل منها كمية مرعبة من الدم، و قال باللفظ "أهه واحد إبن..... مات أهه، و الله لموتك زيه يا إبن....." ثم دخل مدخل عمارة، و دخل العساكر اللطاف معاه و قفل عليا باب العمارة و بلغة الحواري "قصني" و جابني أرضا و بدأ بالضرب بشكل مبرح.
شلاليت في وشي، و في بطني، و العساكر بالعصيان، و واحد منهم كسر حاجة خشب غريبة و جاب الخشبة و قعد يضربني بيها في كل حتة في جسمي، و كلام شبه "يا ولاد ال.... يا ….. ده إحنا في الشارع من بليل يلعن د....“ و أنا بقوله "ربنا يكون في عونكوا، إنت عارف بقى إنت واقف ليه و بتمنعنى ليه؟" فيستفز فيضربني أكثر "عامل فيها مثقف يا إبن.....“ و أنا أرد عليه "مش مثقف و لا نيله، أنا هنا عشانكوا، أنا مصري زيك" طبعا كلامي وسط الضرب كان أكيد مبهم، و هو وسط شتايموا كلامي كان في أهمية برنامج "طبق اليوم" بالنسبة له.
و بعد ما زهق، قالهم "عايزكم تموتوه زي الواد الثاني يا إما هرجع أموتكم إنتوا، و لو جاعنين كلوه" و مشي، و لمدة لا تقل عن عشر دقايق ضرب مبرح بجد و أنا مستغرب هو أنا إزاي لسة ما متش، و أهه بعد ستة و ثلاثين ساعة أقسم بالله حاسس بالوجع في كل سنتيميتر مكعب في جسمي.
الغريب إني وقتها و وسط الحدث وصلت لمرحلة إني فعلا مش حاسس تماما بالضرب، و إستشهدت، و بدأت خيالات تراودني، عن أهلي بعدها هيحسوا بإيه و عن فيلمي اللي ماكملتش مونتاجه، و عن الصفحة اللي هتتعملي على الفيس بوك، و يا ترا هنبقى "كلنا عمرو سلامة"؟ و الأهم تصريح وزارة الداخلية اللي هيطلعوه إني أكيد بلعت الآي فون بتاعي.
و قعدت ساعتها أصرخ للعساكر و أقول كلام أفلاطوني ثاني زي: "أنا هنا عشانكم، إنتم عارفين إنتم بتضربوني ليه؟ أنا معايا موبايل، و معايا فلوس، و معايا عربية، و مستريح، إحنا هنا عشانكوا، عشان إنتم تلاقوا تاكلوا و تأكلوا عيالكم"
و لسبب إلهى سمعوا كلامي، و لقيت واحد فيهم إتأثر فعلا و بعدهم عني، و جابلي كرسي، و قالي "أستاذ، هتعرف تمشي؟" بعد لحظة صمت قلتله "هحاول" قالي "طب إجري بسرعة قبل ما الظابط يرجع، لو رجع هيموتك" فحاولت أهرب بسرعة و لكن الظابط رجع، و إفتكرني بهرب طبعا، و هما عملوا كإنهم بيجيبوني، فخدت علقة تجعل العلقة الأولى فيلم كارتون إنتاج والت ديزني في الأربعينات.
و بعدها ركز مع صيد تاني كان جايبه من الغابة شوية، فجه ظابط ثاني سألني عن شغلي و إسمي و شاف بطاقتي و قالي "إجري بسرعة قبل ما يركز معاك ثاني".
جريت، و بعد شوية بدأت الآلام تظهر، و بعدها آلام الرأس و الدوخة و الزغللة، و بدأت عنيا تدمع بلا توقف، مش عياط، بس يمكن عشان أعصابي سابت تماما و فقد السيطرة و صوتي كان بتطلع كإنه طالع من بير.
وصلت لواحد صاحبي في وسط البلد، إستضفني في مكان عمله، و قعدت و جابلي حاجات أشربها.
و سابني شوية، و لقيت نفسي ببكي بحدة لم أبكيها منذ لا أتذكر متى.
لم أبكي من الألم، و لا حتى من الإهانة، و لا من الرعب، بس بكيت لسبب واحد، لسبب إني لقيت نفسي بدأت أكره مصر، و حسيت إن ظباطها اللي حامينها كرهوني فيها، و حكومتها اللي ظالمانا كرهتني فيها، و شعبها السلبي – كان سلبي – ماكنش معانا و كرهني فيها، و الفساد و القمع و إلخ إلخ، و إزاي ممكن أعمل في كائن بشري ثاني مقلب و أجيبه و أخلفه في البلد ديه، إزاي هقنعه يحبها و يحاربلها و ينتميلها!؟
و قلت طب ليه ماسبهاش لو جالي الفرصة، مش يمكن كما قال صديق عزيز فعلا "مستقبل مصر الوحيد في الهجرة لكندا"؟
بس بعد دقايق، رجع صوت العقل – هو مش أكيد صوت العقل بس هو صوت طول عمره موديني في داهية – و فكرت نفسي بمعتقاداتي اللي بكتب المقال ده عشان أشاركها معاكوا.
إفتكرت إن إنتمائى لمصر مش إجباري، ده إختيار مني، أنا إختارته لإن إحساسي بالإنتماء مفيد ليا مش مفيد لمصر، مفيد ليا إني أعرف أنا منين و فين، فين المكان اللي أنه منه، و هو بتاعي، اللي بيتي فيه، و سريري فيه، اللي بحس فيه إني وصلت خلاص مش مستني إمتى هروّح.
إفتكرت إني لازم أبقى إيجابي تجاه أي مكان إخترت أنتميله، و أتفائل مهما كان، إن المكان ده هيكون أحسن بسببي و بسبب اللي حوليا.
من غير إنتماء و أمل أنا فعلا أفضل إني أموت، و لو بقيت عايش بدون سبب له معنى هتحول لحيوان عايز ياكل و ينام و يتمتع بمتع لحظية عمرها ما هتغذي روحي، و ده إختيار نهائي مش محتاج أراجعه مع نفسي.
حتى لو شاف العالم إني رومانسي زيادة أو حالم أو رومانسي، في ستين ألف داهية، أنا هبقى مبسوط بأختياري ده حتى لو حصلي اللي حصلي.
و إكتشفت إن أهم حاجة في الدنيا إني عارف الكلام ده، إني عارف أنا ليه إتضربت، إني عارف أنا ليه نزلت، إني أبقى عارف إن بدون شعارات و مطالبات سياسية معصلجة الفهم أنا نزلت و إتضربت عشان عايز مصر أحسن، عايز مصر مافيهاش سلطة أبدية مطلقة لأي من حكامها، عايز مصر بفجوة إجتماعية أقل، الفقير حتى لو فضل فقير يكون له الحد الأدنى من الكرامة و الإحتياجات الإنسانية، عارف إن إبني لما أخلفه في يوم من الأيام يتعلم صح، يتعالج صح، يبقى عنده أي أمل و طموح مهما كان، حتى لو عايز يبقى رئيس جمهورية، عايز مصر الشرطة فيها بتحمي الشعب مش بتعمل فيه اللي إتعمل فيا و في غيري، في كل قسم و شارع، مش زي اللي إتعمل فالشهداء، خالد سعيد و سيد بلال، لو حد حاول ينهب حقه مايخفش يروح القسم و يبقى عارف إن حقه حيرجعله لإن الظابط عايز يرجعله حقه، و هيلاقي الظابط ده موجود في القسم، مش واقف في تشريفة من صباحية ربنا، و لا بيقمع معارضة و لا مهمته الوحيدة حماية نظام فشل يديه حقوقه أصلا من مرتب محترم و عيشة كريمة، و مخليه واقف في وش المدفع يتكره بداله.
عرفت لما إتضربت إني خايف أقل، إني عرفت أنا ليه هنزل ثاني و ثالث و رابع، عرفت إني لو مت هبقى شهيد و أكيد هبقى في مكان أحسن.
و عرفت إن اللي بيضربني مش عارف هو بيضربني ليه، حاسس إن أسبابه مش منطقية حتى لو سهر الليالي يمنطقها لنفسه، ده يمكن يكون متعاطف معايا، و خايف أكثر مني، من جزا أو عقاب أو تكديره.
و الأهم عرفت إن فيه أمل، أمل أشوف مصر مش زي تونس بس، أشوفها في يوم مكان أجمل من تخيلي مكان أتمنى أخلف فيه عيال عشان ينعموا فيه بحياة كريمة و يعمروه أكثر.
أنا لا أدعي بأي شكل البطولة، و شفت ناس إتضربوا أكثر مني بكثير، و ناس أعتقلت، و في ناس ماتت أحتسبهم شهداء، بس الناس ديه كلها لو إتكلمت معاهم، أغلبهم فخورين بنفسهم، خوفهم بقى أقل، تحديهم بقى أقوى، حاسين إنهم على حق، الناس ديه معظمها طلعت من معتقالاتها أقوى، حاسين إن الفرج جاي مهما إتأخر، و عارفين إنها مهما ضاقت و إستحكمت حلقاتها مسيرها تفرج.
أهم إكتشاف إني إكتشفت إن في أمثال مش مجرد أمثال و خلاص، و فعلا معناها حقيقي، زي "الضربة اللي ماتومتنيش هتقويني"
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
My opinion and actually prediction is one of optimism. The army will stay on the sidelines. I believe that and I believe 2011 is a lot different than 70s,80s,90s.
@Shwitter It's like the Guardian reporter who tweeted police “queued” to punch him in the face. When I saw his video, he didn't even have a scratch on his face.
Oh and wear something rebellious style like a scarf and flag or something like that You'll definitely be on the tube as Egyptian cameras can't resist blondes. Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
FB gone...
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
That was a lovely piece of personal reportage, and a very graceful translation, Expat.
And i'm glad exiled is backing off from his stance of 'hooray hope the military takes over... blah blah..'
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: That was a lovely piece of personal reportage, and a very graceful translation, Expat.
And i'm glad exiled is backing off from his stance of 'hooray hope the military takes over... blah blah..'
???
My opinion on the military is that they will not fire on the people (staying on the sidelines), and if anything side with the people to oust the police. It is what I wrote 20 posts back and what I just repeated. So I have no idea what you are blabbering about.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
FB out here to. It's the 'server not found' as opposed to 'time out' message. However, 'downrightnow.com' is reporting service issues and I can't even get it via a proxy. So maybe not a block.
Not sure about twitter - have logged in but the 'new tweet' page not loading. Google is working. Gmail is loading.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Well I am baffled as I have FB on my mobile!
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Different service provider probably! Can't get any twitter or fb right now. And its coming up white screen on twitter and 'server not found' on fb. Can't access fb at all via the secret mouse, did via the secret donkey but not able to post.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
If they wanna block comms then frankly they suck. If they don't want to then frankly they suck.
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
OMG LET IT BE TRUE. It has to come from the Army. It has to! Sorry if I misunderstood your opinion, nut it sure looked like you think a few more uniforms thrown into the mix would be a positive move.
Hope the population of Egypt shares your optimism that should Mubarak's army get out on the streets, they will not fire on the people demanding his resignation. What this protest needs is less bloodshed, not more. It would be truly horrible to see unarmed protesters facing tanks on the streets of their country wouldn't it?
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Im still able access fb via opera mini but cant post on khalid said page
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: It would be truly horrible to see unarmed protesters facing tanks on the streets of their country wouldn't it?
This will never happen..but there's always a first time. Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I am able post fb now
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
@ MoNing. Yes you misunderstood. The enthusiasm was in reply to Gamal Eid's report that the Army in Suez refused to turn their weapons on protesters, this report was just underneath what I wrote in both English and Arabic:
------------------------------- OMG LET IT BE TRUE. It has to come from the Army. It has to!
URGENT Suez: reports that some army units refused to support the police to confront the demonstrators, and the acceptance of other units, and did not intervene until now.
Tweet Gamal Eid by Lawyer and executive director The Arabic Network for Human Rights Information
عاجل السويس: انباء عن أن بعض وحدات الجيش رفضت دعم الشرطة لمواجهة المتظاهرين ، وقبول وحدات أخرى ،وان لم تتدخل حتى الان
--------------------
@Dzoozer Youtube video. Here is a brief summary. It is sad but also threatening. He is basically saying watch your backs. Those very poor neglected folk will go for theres one day. He said they evolved to the point that they don't even talk like ordinary citizens. They live in conditions that are well below any acceptable human conditions. They are hungry and when the opportunity arises they will take by force. They know who you are, they know what you have and one day they will take what they believe they deserve.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: If they wanna block comms then frankly they suck. If they don't want to then frankly they suck.
Yeah they suck. Haven't been able to get into FB for the past couple of days down here. Nor google for a spell yesterday. Nor BBC.
All quiet here in the sticks Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
OK. You are off the hook. Too many posts coming up to keep track.
I just don't trust large groups of armed men I guess.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
In Suez and Ismailia a typical cycle has started and is continuing. People protested then police beat them up and arrested many of them, so their families and friends came out to protest their arrest so the police beat them up too then more families and friends got angry and even more went out to protest..........now that could bring result.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
One more thing guys regarding Dzooser's youtube video. It makes a lot of sense, and shared by others. Those friendly poor people may act out if the police structure crumples. Just make sure you have pepper spray in your apartments and take other protective measures in place, just in case. As distasteful as that sounds, it is a price for freedom as there is always chaos during transition.
We all know that they have been held down by fear. And all their moves monitored by the system. When that goes at least for a period of time, it might not be so safe to walk around at 1 or 2am in the morning.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Now that is never going to happen, certainly not on a large scale. A few thugs may but that's about it.
The point though is that the problems for Egyptians will not disappear by changing the government. They're now deeply routed in culture and will take more more than honest politicians to change that. What change in government will do is allow community activist the freedom to organize to help their community and fight against corruption on community level without the fear of police stepping in and preventing them as a reactionary measure to protect the system. That specifically applies to religious organizers who tend to be active in the community and have had their hands tied by by security agencies.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
@nasry صفوت الشريف في اتصال مع رئيس تايلاند:يومين وهاجي أقعدعندكم!رئيس تايلند:لاياروح أمك الدعارةعندنا رسمي ومش محتاجين معرصين #jan25
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Facebook still down here but I'm able to get to it by proxy. I had a little help though. lol
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Can't even find a proxy that works
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Twitter and Facebook blocked as Egypt tries to stamp out mass protests
quote: Well I am baffled as I have FB on my mobile!
That's how it has been for us all day. However, a friend in England text me saying the news over there said BBs have been blocked in Egypt and iphones will soon follow?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
The U.S. gives Egypt $1.3+ billion/year in military aid to prop up Mubarek and his 'State of Emergency' enacted since Sadat's assassination is just an excuse for totalitarianism. Just hope another despot doesn't replace him if and once he flees with some govt loot.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
I think it's 2.2 now.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
My last update for the evening... Vodaphone internet down for some not others, my BBM just gone again (5 mins ago). Etisalat still down as well.
Off out... ta ra a bit
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Youtube working ok for me but maybe not for other ISPs. FB not working for me (coming up 'server not found' as opposed to timing out) except via a proxy. donkey not mouse and have been able to post.
It seems to vary from ISP to ISP and whether you connect via mobile, USB dongle or ADSL as to what you can reach.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
George galloway said on his show the moment he's been waiting for as people rebel against corrupt regieme. He was kicked out of egypt and banned for life.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
All those interruptions are normal in cases of heavy traffic, bandwidth problem and stuff like that..everyone's on the net during those moments, young ppl. are in majority after all. Posted by Coco (Member # 16208) on :
Shanta - which is the most reliable proxy to use?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I'm on with etisalat! @coco - I'll pm you.
Posted by Coco (Member # 16208) on :
Thanks Shanta - got it!
Posted by Coco (Member # 16208) on :
Shanta - still having problems - can't get on with Etislut and no SMS with Vodafone either.....
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I can still get on with etisalat. Tried SMSing from and to my voda no joy. Will try SMSing to my Etisalat from my skype. No luck there either.
I think SMS receipt has been blocked. Even my USB modem - I could send to 555 to see how much allowance left, but no response.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Watching people protest with dress shoes is just so wrong as they can sleep and come off easily. They need boots or kicks with strings tied tight.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
BTW Those were originally reccommendations from Tunisians to Egyptians.
There's another more detailed list online, such as how to evade police and when and where to protest. The most important rule is if your are going to die, make sure it is not from a "dictator's bullet" because it is not worth it.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
رساله من اخ تونسى السلام عليكم إخواننا في مصر
...لنجاح ثورتكم عليكم بما يلي
1..المظاهرات تكون ليلا ..وهذه لها عدة فؤائد
............أ:تقللون من فرص القبض عليكم ومن فرص معرفة هوياتكم
...ب:تستطيعون النجاة من عمليات التصوير
ج:ترهقون قوات مكافحة الشغب فانتم تثورن ليلا وتنامون نهارا وهم فحالة طواري قصوي فليلا شغب والنهار لا يستطيعون النوم فيكونون ضعفاء
د:تمنعون علميات الخطف وزوار الفجر
.2..اياكم وعمليات الانتحار فاذا كان مصيرك الموت فليكن برصاص طاغية
.3..استغلوا الاعلام لتبليغ صوتكم فالضغظ الخارجي رهيب جدا
4...هاااااااااااام بالله عليكم الهمة في النشر , من تونس الشقيق :إلى كل إخواننا الثوار في مصر استخدموا الاسبراي الأسود أو البويا لتغطية زجاج السيارات المصفحة لتشلوا حركتها
5....لمنع الصواعق الكهربائيه البسو اكياس بلاستك في ارجلكم مربوطه بلزق سوليتب مااااااااااااانع للكهرباء وتم التجربه
6...لسان ثوار تونس "ملاحظة هامة: غسل الوجه بالكوكا كولا يزيل فورا مفعول القنابل المسيلة للدموع .. جرّبنا هذا في تونس حتى باتت قنابلهم بلا جدوى .. الله معكم يا مصرين"
7....كيفية شل فاعلية المدرعات و عربات الأمن ...حشر قطعة قماش مبللة فى فتحة الشكمان لمنع العادم من الخروج ......و لو لفيت قطعة خشب بالقماشة المبللة كان أفضل و يمكن استعمال حتى كم قميص ... سيؤدى ذلك لتوقف المحرك عن العمل فى مدة لا تتجاوز 7 ثوانى و بالتالى تتوقف العربة عن الحركة و يتوقف مدفع المياه و تصبح المدرعة خردة مع ملاحظة أنه فى حالة نزعها ستعود العربة للعمل
الفكرة تم استخدامها ضد دبابات اليهود فى حرب73 و حققت نجاحاً باهرأً
انشرها حتي لا يتاذي اخوان
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
في حالة حجب موقع الدستور الأصلي داخل مصر يمكنك أن تتابع أخبار الموقع من خلال الوسائل التالية:
Patience is a virtue – maybe even the supreme one in Egypt's popular hierarchy of values, but patience also has its limits and, now, at last, it seems as if we've arrived at ours. And fittingly, it's the young of the country who are leading us. They've had enough of unemployment, deteriorating education, corruption, police brutality and political impotence.
As is now well known, they organised Tuesday's protests over Facebook and in closed virtual and actual meetings. Talk about grassroots! "They" is some 20 groups that have sprung up over the last five years. The question has always been how and when will they coalesce? They did on Tuesday; they fused, and with them multitudes of Egyptians young and old – inspired by what happened in Tunis.
They organised protests from Assiut in the south, to Sheikh Zuwayyid in Sinai, and Alexandria, Suez and other cities the length and breadth of Egypt. For Cairo they chose three locations: Shubra, Matariyya and Arab League Street. These were strategic choices: naturally crowded neighbourhoods, with lots of side streets off the main road. Young activists started their march in nearby areas, collected a following and by the time they reached, for example, Arab League Street, they were 20,000 marching.
The Central Security Forces were in chaos; when they formed cordons the people just broke through them. When they raised their riot shields and batons the young people walked right up to them with their hands up chanting "Silmiyyah! [Peaceable] Silmiyyah!"
In Tahrir Square, in the centre of Cairo, on Tuesday night Egypt refound and celebrated its diversity. The activists formed a minor part of the gathering, what was there was The People.
Young people of every background and social class marched and sang together. Older, respected figures went round with food and blankets. Cigarette-smoking women in jeans sat next to their niqab-wearing sisters on the pavement. Old comrades from the student movement of the 1970s met for the first time in decades. Young people went round collecting litter. People who stayed at home phoned nearby restaurants with orders to deliver food to the protesters. Not one religious or sectarian slogan was heard. The solidarity was palpable. And if this sounds romantic, well, it was and is.
Then, at1am, Central Security attacked. Ferociously. Within five minutes more than 40 canisters of teargas were thrown into the crowd. When they did not disperse, the special forces went in with batons, water cannon and finally rubber bullets. People were grabbed and thrown into police trucks. Hundreds were driven off to police stations and detention centres. Private cars chased round after the police trucks to keep track of where they were taking people.
The phone lines set up by legal aid and humanitarian organisations started to ring. Lawyers on standby headed for the detention centres. The government started to block the emergency lines and interfere with the net. Blocking communications. This continues today.
For some time, Egypt has felt as though it is under occupation. Today, downtown Cairo was under siege. Appropriately, it was the legal and media area that was clearly worrying the regime most. Twenty personnel carriers lined Rameses Street, and lines of security forces were three deep around the lawyers' syndicate, the judges' club and the journalists' syndicate.
About 100 protesters were standing on the steps of the journalists' syndicate, with banners. A young woman with a mic was addressing the soldiers: "Relax!" she called, "Relax! We're not the enemy!"
The protest strategy since the 26th has been flash demonstrations that gather quickly and disperse when attacked. Their aim is to keep the security forces on their toes and not allow them to rest – until today. Friday, after prayers, is the classic protest time and everyone is waiting.
There is a level of organisation springing up here that can best be described as solidarity in action. At various centres round the capital young activists are manning phones, documenting injuries, setting up impromptu clinics.
At the Hisham Mubarak (no relation to the president) legal centre people have not slept for 48 hours. They have documented, since 25 January, eight people killed, 24 injured and more than 800 detained. But the hotlines published on the websites have now all been blocked so fewer calls are coming in. But information keeps coming: they detained a 90-year-old man in Suez. He used to be a leader of the resistance in 1956. And he's in the protests now.
• Ahdaf Soueif is the bestselling author of The Map of Love and many other books. She lives in Cairo and London
hilalchoumanI CONFIRM NOOR DSL IS WORKING GOV CAN'T TAKE IT DOWN COZ THE STOCK MARKET & BANKS ARE CONNECTED TO IT #jan25 (via @weddady) #Egypt 5 minutes ago
This is so ridiculous!!!!!!! Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
greenarkproject RT @edsetiadi: "Egyptian Christians said they will guard the Muslims from the police while they on Friday Pray." Amazing solidarity. #Egypt #Jan25
Posted by advocate (Member # 13367) on :
mand0z Mohannad by RHelmii URGENT via message relayed to me from Downtown Cairo: 15 CSF trucks heading towards downtown. Alert protestors. #Jan25 #fb
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
One tactic that the police might deploy is closing the entrances of the Mosques when the worshipers are busy praying inside. They will try to keep them locked in for as long as they can. Then they will gradually let them out a little at a time, beating them in the process. Doing this will prevent the people from storming out en mass. This is if they actually go inside the mosques, because I am sure many will be smart enough and know they could be trapped inside and subjected to a bad situation. Something like a tear gas cannister inside a crowded area with not too much air. Many might just perform their prayers in the courtyards and streets.
Word is that unit 777 counter terrorism unit is out and dressed in police uniforms. They are reportedly positioned in stragetic areas throughout Cairo (e.g. Tahrir). This unit specializes in urban warfare and are essentially snipers.
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Only a few people are having internet excess right now in Egypt. Will forward their updates on here when available.
I can't believe what's happening, I am so emotional and extremely concerned about the next 12+ hours.
Mubarak is desperate and he needs to go. The people no longer tolerate him and his regime.
I am proud of all the Egyptians who will join the protests today. Much much luck to you all!!!!!!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Ben Wederman of CNN has confirmed special forces on the streets. His latest tweet read:
"Will be extremely difficult to relay news from the field. No freedom of press to cover NO freedom of expression and assembly"
"Egypt today is one big prison. If the international community does not speak out it will have a lot of implications. We are fighting for universal values here. If the west is not going to speak out now, then when?"
4000 security (soldiers) reinforcements arrived in Suez last night. Police are inside and around mosques preventing people from going inside. - Deena Samaka (Al-Jazeera) reporting live from Suez
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Muslim Brotherhood made a statement to protestors:
"Strive for your freedom but do not damage the infrastructure in the process. Don't damage buildings and establishments because they belong to Egypt and not the President"
- (al-jazeera )
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Police presence grows on streets of Cairo as protests loom
'Accessing blocked sites through proxy servers seems to be the most common way that users are bypassing the blocks. Twitter PR acknowledged that though their traffic has diminished from Egypt, users were tapping into proxies and apps to tweet. Facebook users in Egypt were sharing different proxy sites that users can access, such as Proxy-Service.de, which enables access to blocked sites. The only disadvantage is that you have to put up with a bar at the top with display ads, which is how they make money to support the service.'
Thousands protesting outside Minya's largest mosque - Al Jazeera
Minya is south of Cairo
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
20,000 protesting after prayer on Al-Azhar street, Cairo. This is near Khan Al Khalili – Al-Jazeera
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Where is Mubarak hiding.....??
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
In several low-income parts of Cairo and Alexandria, government-hired thugs were seen to be splashing petroleum over parked cars. This to prepare for protests in which they'll light vehicles on fire when the time is right for them. They will charge through the streets with swords and caustic acid t...o splash on protesters placing blame of violence on protesters.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Thousands protesting and fighting with police after leaving Mosque in Sharqiya. - AJ
Thousands (too much to count) are coming out of mosques in Suez protesting. - Deena Samak AJ Live
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Thousands fighting outside Mosque Qaid Ibraheem in Alex. AJ - Live
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
Dont forget the We Are All Khaled Said group on FB.,for those able to access internet.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Cairo - Protestors leaving mosques making their way to downtown, tahrir, including the 20,000 that left Azhar mosque. Tahrir completely surrounded by security forces. - AJ Cairo Correspondent Live
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
“Thousands” protesting and fighting with security forces in Monsura – AJ Live
Fighting in all areas surrounding downtown tahrir, security forces trying to cut off people from making there way there. - AJ Live
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
BREAKING Al Arabiya: Protesters head to the Presidential Palace in Cairo #Jan25 2 minutes ago
This is Alarming. I didn't know that the government could shut down the whole internet. Also no SMS.
quote: UPDATE: (9:45 p.m. ET) Internet intelligence authority Renesys has just weighed in with a blog post on recent developments:
Confirming what a few have reported this evening: in an action unprecedented in Internet history, the Egyptian government appears to have ordered service providers to shut down all international connections to the Internet. Critical European-Asian fiber-optic routes through Egypt appear to be unaffected for now. But every Egyptian provider, every business, bank, Internet cafe, website, school, embassy, and government office that relied on the big four Egyptian ISPs for their Internet connectivity is now cut off from the rest of the world. Link Egypt, Vodafone/Raya, Telecom Egypt, Etisalat Misr, and all their customers and partners are, for the moment, off the air. At 22:34 UTC (00:34am local time), Renesys observed the virtually simultaneous withdrawal of all routes to Egyptian networks in the Internet's global routing table. Approximately 3,500 individual BGP routes were withdrawn, leaving no valid paths by which the rest of the world could continue to exchange Internet traffic with Egypt's service providers. Virtually all of Egypt's Internet addresses are now unreachable, worldwide.
UPDATE: (2:10 a.m. ET) HuffPost reader Thomas Jaworowski, a tech enthusiast, emails in that he "decided to try a few tricks" to see if Egypt's Internet really was down or it was just server overload causing the problems. He traced IP addresses, particularly for the U.S. Embassy in Cairo which is hosted in Egypt, and found that the Web traffic is indeed being blocked at the country level, not just a simple censoring.
God help our friends in Egypt.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Video of downtown: traffic moving, many security forces.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Are you in Egypt A?
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
_westewille RT @TheStalwart: RT @NourHammoury: Egyptial Police arrested Elbaradaii #Egypt #25jan $$ Twitter - 6 mts ago
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
@D_Oro No, watching everything on Al-Jazeera.
Coverage is limited. Live video was only of downtown of controlled fortified area, but now that's gone. Government is controlling satellite transmission. Most reports coming via phone from various areas and cities to AJ HQ. And even that's difficult as some correspondents cut off.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
My gosh, What are they doing?
Is there no way for news to get out? How did the Iranians do it?
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
MohannadKhairy Mohannad El-Khairy Meanwhile, CNN International shows you Kim Kardashian's wardrobe and discusses her new reality show #stupid #insertbbmdude
bencnn benwedeman Plainclothed #Egypt policemen in Tahrir Sq attack #CNN crew, brake and steal camera. Violent suppression of protesters everywhere #Jan25
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
I don't know how things transpired in Iran but in Egypt there are reports of journalist being beaten, arrested and in the case of Al-Jazeera- their guy on the streets of Cairo, disappeared. I guess HM doesn't want the world to see Live video footage of the way he deals with dissent.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
live phone call updates tweeted here
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
I am crying watching these scenes. I never thought I'd see something like that happening in Egypt - at least not in my lifetime. What a historical day for this country.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
The Iranians were able to keep some type of contact with the rest of the world. People would set up proxies for them. I really don't understand about computers but some how the people were able to get through the blocks and post what was happening.
It seems to me like Egypt is a more free society than Iran but maybe the Iranians know more about computers.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Massive protest in Alex. Some Police refusing to fire on the people.
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi Al Jazeera breaking: Al Jazeera Mubasher Live channel has been blocked completely in Egypt via NileSat. #Jan25 1 minute ago
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Medan Abdulmunim Riyad Cairo, Police vehicles torched. - AJ Live
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
40,000 Protestors attacking NDP building in Munsura. - AJ Live
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: The Iranians were able to keep some type of contact with the rest of the world. People would set up proxies for them. I really don't understand about computers but some how the people were able to get through the blocks and post what was happening.
It seems to me like Egypt is a more free society than Iran but maybe the Iranians know more about computers.
Any guesses if the govt can keep this country-wide internet ban going tomorrow and sunday? They've shut down emails and websites for any business based in Egypt...surely this will cause a huge devaluation in the pound..once the stockmarket can manage to get its email/internet working that is
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Where is the link to the twitter account that they are reading from?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Where is the link to the twitter account that they are reading from?
Egyptian Christians said they would protect Muslims during prayers. They are standing together.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Live Phonecall: Shots. First live shot fired into the air by officer standing on car. Batal Ahmed Abdel Aziz St 2 minutes ago via web
(mohandessin)
Live Phonecall: Nile Bridge Closed, El Gamaa bridge closed, Abbas Bridge closed. Trying to divide apart city. #jan25 #jan28 #Egypt 9 minutes ago via web
# Live Phonecall: teargass firing in Batal Ahmed Abdel Aziz St, security suddenly come back "as if fallen from sky"#jan25 #jan28 #Egypt
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
Beny Sweif: protesters take over the building of the ruling National unDemocratic party. I repeat again. It's confirmed: Whole unit of police in Alexandria refuse commands to attack and fire at protesters.
Bron: "we are all Khaled Said".
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
elhelwy RT @Tharwacolamus: 40000 protesters in Mansoura demolish ruling party's headquarters. Protesters seeking downfall of regime not reform #jan25
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
fouad_marei Fouad GM Reports: #Mubarak will address the nation tomorrow #egypt #jan25 2 minutes ago
I wonder why we don't hear anything back from Luxor, Aswan and the Red Sea resorts. No demonstrations are going on there????
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Just phoned Luxor...people on streets and tear gas fired...told them Id just read that a senior police officer refused to fire teargas on crowds in Cairo and NDP building taken over....friend said people on balconies cheering.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
"Nour", a young activist who was locked in the back of a police van with Jack Shenker, has told al-Jazeera that his Dad, Ayman Nour, a prominent dissident, is in intensive care after being hit on the back of a head by a rock thrown by government thugs. His father has diabetes and a heart condition. His father challenged Hosni Mubarak for the presidency in 2005 and was thrown in jail for his troubles.
Nour said there were government thugs in Cairo with "steel and sticks. It is very frightening and intimidating."
MB – This isn't a MB revolt. It is a revolt of all Egypt of every persuasion. Leftists, rightist, etc
-live AJ
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
1.33pm: More from Peter Bouckaert, from Human Rights Watch, in Alexandria:
The police have now given up fighting the protesters. The police and protesters are now talking, with protesters bringing water and vinegar (for teargas) to the police. Afternoon prayer has just been called and hundreds are praying in front of the mosque in east Alexandria.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Syntheticwhite RT @mayabisamra: Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch in Alexandria: police where he is have given up and are withdrawing. #Jan25 #egypt
Syntheticwhite RT @mayabisamra: Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch in Alexandria: police where he is have given up and are withdrawing. #Jan25 #egypt
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Britt_W RT @Selnadeem: More than 80000 protesters in Mansora destroying NDP building and saying no to Mubarak "Yalla Egypt Yalla" #Jan25
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Just phoned Luxor to tell them that news! Cant believe I missed this by a few days!
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
They remind me of David & Goliath, over throwing the giant with a stone.
Posted by Qmar (Member # 12602) on :
need the source of update... have bbc on update and the guardian also using twitter updates, what else?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: elhelwy RT @Tharwacolamus: 40000 protesters in Mansoura demolish ruling party's headquarters. Protesters seeking downfall of regime not reform #jan25
If that number is anywhere near accurate, it's pretty well over.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Just heard on BBC TV...UK protests have reached as far as Maadi
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Very impressive delayed al-jazeera video footage from Suez. The crowds just walked right through police lines. Literally walked right through them.
This needs to happen in Cairo.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
ALjazeerah live is not working for me anymore...server overload!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: ALjazeerah live is not working for me anymore...server overload!
click on 'live' if it pauses.
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
For those with smartphones,there's a very good CNN International aplication where actual live reporting from Cairo is being transmited. Great for keeping us updated while on the move.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
I'm surprised no one has taken advantage of the situation and assumed leadership of the revolt thus far.
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
"House arrest of Mohamed #ElBaradei" #jan25 21 seconds ago
The Egyptian government doesn't realize that this is not about El Baradei but about the Egyptian people and what they want - and hopefully will get.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Very impressive delayed al-jazeera video footage from Suez. The crowds just walked right through police lines. Literally walked right through them.
This needs to happen in Cairo.
derekrootboy RT @alaa: revolutionaries have occupied the police station in suez and liberated the detainees arrested in past two days #Jan25
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Very impressive delayed al-jazeera video footage from Suez. The crowds just walked right through police lines. Literally walked right through them.
This needs to happen in Cairo.
derekrootboy RT @alaa: revolutionaries have occupied the police station in suez and liberated the detainees arrested in past two days #Jan25
Awesome. They disarmed one police vehicle, got a shotgun, and another police vehicle tried to run them over, hitting a protester in the process.
There's a lot of anger there, police killed 7 ppl there past 3 days and 1 more today.
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
We are all Khaled SaidAlexandria, Suez, Damanhour, Monoufeya centers are under protesters control.
Protests start in the tourist resourt Hurghada and the nice bit: Foreigners and tourists are joining protesters in the streets calling on Mubarak to go... :-) ...
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Shot in the head: The moment Egyptian police gunned down an unarmed protester for throwing a rock
Mohamed Atef, 22, died instantly from a shot to the head as he demonstrated in the town of Sheikh Zoweid in northern Sinai. His friends rushed to his side and took him to get medical help but it was too late..
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Amazing to see my old work place. CNN's Ben Wedeman is reporting live from Maspiro. He just mentioned that soldiers now start to arrive.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Army units have been seen in Cairo, motherfuckers.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
The protesters were warmly greeting the army unit I just saw on tv
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi BREAKING: Egyptian TV announces immediate curfew in Cairo #Jan25 52 seconds ago
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by advocate: The protesters were warmly greeting the army unit I just saw on tv
Yes but that may and I hope not but it may mean that that the low life scumbag Mubarak is still in control.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Is anyone able to get through to mobiles or land-line phones, calling from outside Egypt?
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: Is anyone able to get through to mobiles or land-line phones, calling from outside Egypt?
I haven't got through......been trying all day
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Is Cairo airport open?
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Ive been phoning a vodaphone mobile but thats to Luxor and thats ok...from Tasmania!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
not good
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
I have just tried phoning again...it says network not available
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
3.43 Egyptian state TV says Mubarak has asked the army to take charge of security alongside the police. Looks like that is how he intends to impose the curfew, due to start in about 15 minutes. doesnt sound good
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
CNN reports that Mubarak will speak soon. I am very anxious on what he has to say.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Well, I didn't think it was going to get that far and now I'm optimistic. I don't have a clue how it will go and that in and of itself is an improvement.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
wow...my son has just got me al jezera live via a friend in USA as havent been able to get it all day.Wonders of the internet and computer savvy kids...god I hope they dont go stupid
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily_Egypt: CNN reports that Mubarak will speak soon. I am very anxious on what he has to say.
Cry Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: Is Cairo airport open?
i was wondering that myself
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Protestors defiant. How will army react?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
I just noticed, no one in Egypt is posting anymore!
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Protestors defiant. How will army react?
I doubt the army is their for crowd control. Their interest will be to secure government buildings, embassies, TV stations and such. And to some extent keep the peace.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
sp are they hoping to change egy[t to live like the wast?>but dont they hate the way we live? what are they hoping for?
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
BreakingNews U.S. State Department says Egypt situation of 'deep concern,' urges government to reform and allow peaceful protests #Egypt #Jan25
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
oh...http://www.livestream.com/coldfire404 gets algezera and speach coming up...
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY:
quote:Originally posted by this: Is Cairo airport open?
Well.....as all lines are not working ...network and phones down you will get nothing out of Egypt.....the outside media have special land lines which they are clinging to like gold
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Headquarters of the unDemocratic Party on fire.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY:
quote:Originally posted by this: Is Cairo airport open?
The people remain defiant. Tanks rolling into cities.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Come on already! What is taking him so long begin his speech. Will be interesting to hear his concessions and will be interesting how the people respond. I think they traveled too far to fall short of their dream.
-----------
Abekita Police station and police cars exploding and burning - AJ live
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Azbekiya
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
Abekita Police station
Asbakeia
I don't thing tanks have rolled in yet. I saw on Jazeerah some armored vehicles not tanks.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
People think Army arrived to protect them from police, answer their call for regime change.
Government's position is that they are there to maintain order, and under HM command.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
America has woken up.......Clinton to make a speach shortly....perhaps Mubarak waiting for that before he makes a move
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY:
quote:Originally posted by this: Is Cairo airport open?
I don't get it, it's past midnight already in Egypt "About a half-hour past midnight on Friday in Egypt, the internet went dead."
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
These demonstrations gotten way out of hand; they are by no means anymore peaceful. Very disturbing scenes on CNN. Sad.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY:
quote:Originally posted by this: Is Cairo airport open?
I don't get it, it's past midnight already in Egypt "About a half-hour past midnight on Friday in Egypt, the internet went dead."
Dude It's past midnight here and I'm 6 hrs ahead of Egypt. It's 7pm in Cairo.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
tweet from White House spokesman Robert Gibbs "Very concerned about violence in Egypt - government must respect the rights of the Egyptian people & turn on social networking and internet"
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY:
quote:Originally posted by this: Is Cairo airport open?
I don't get it, it's past midnight already in Egypt "About a half-hour past midnight on Friday in Egypt, the internet went dead."
Dude It's past midnight here and I'm 6 hrs ahead of Egypt. It's 7pm in Cairo.
OK that's more like it. I guess I just don't understand when Midnight actually is I thought that Friday's midnight is the point between Friday and Saturday Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY:
quote:Originally posted by this: Is Cairo airport open?
The targets of the people's rage after the army arrived and after curfew are: NDP & Police structures and vehicles. Understandable as those two establishments torremented them for 30+ years.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
I had to leave and just got back. I have no video on Al Jazeera. I only have audio, is the video down now?
ok, I have video now.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Just phoned Luxor again and sounds like the police station is on fire. Mustafa said that people are shouting things like 'Mabarak Harimi',he said people want the poor to be given a little money like in your country.I told him to be careful as even though army is turning up doing thumbs up signs to the protesters they are opening fire....
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: I had to leave and just got back. I have no video on Al Jazeera. I only have audio, is the video down now?
ok, I have video now.
I'm actually not sure what exactly I'm watching.
I supposedly have two different TV Live channels on right now in two different windows.
oh god....not fire next to the museum!!!! Hope they have a damn good sprinkler system....Still have AlJazeera here but via america as couldnt get into the site prob coz of too much traffic. Cant sleep...hoping it calms down.... just heard curfew extended to whole country.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Al Jazeera/English is broadcasting here.
Posted by advocate (Member # 13367) on :
Breaking Al Jazeera: Fires near the Egypt Museum, trees of Egypt Museum are on Fire. NDP Building fire spreads
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
It doesn't bare thinking about advocate Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Ok The second is live and the first is a recording.
quote:Originally posted by this:
ok, I have video now.
I'm actually not sure what exactly I'm watching.
I supposedly have two different TV Live channels on right now in two different windows.
mediesverige RT @axelanden: A french ISP, offer a free dial-up internet access against egypt censorship. Number : +33 1 72 89 01 50. Login/Password: toto #jan25 Twitter - 52 seconds ago
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
EgyptAir suspends flights out of Cairo
(AP) – 17 minutes ago
CAIRO (AP) — Egypt's national carrier says it has suspended its flights from Cairo for 12 hours.
EgyptAir's announcement follows a government-imposed curfew from 6 p.m. to 7 a.m. in response to widespread demonstrations and rioting that engulfed the Egyptian capital after Friday prayers.
The company said its flights from abroad will be able to land, but departures were canceled from 9 p.m.
Separately, a Cairo Airport official said a number of international airlines had canceled flights to the capital, at least overnight. The official was not authorized to speak to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote: SultanAlQassemi Al Jazeera: AFP: US Govt warns citizens against unnecessary travel to Egypt #Jan25
Good thing they pointed this out to us.
Posted by Lucylou (Member # 10213) on :
Egypt today journalist says never been as bad as this - fires at State TV, NDP HQ - hotels on fire and attacks on Information Ministry building. Guarding the Museum to protect it. Not clear what the Army are doing - some reports that army showing sympathy but also sounds of gunshots in the city centre. Police have left and Army taken over but people ignoring the curfew still.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
its kinda weird all my friends in yahoo are almost all egyptian and not one of their id's are lit up.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Doesn't it explicitly ask not to put that on the web?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Um, given that 1/ it's in been published by both al-jazeera and atlantic newspapers (international, U.S. based)
2/ there's absolutely no internet in egypt
3/ protests have been going on since tuesday so while we can joke the egyptian police//army are slow... i think they pretty much figured it out.
:-)
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
The Revolutionary Wave
Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen – is the West next?
by Justin Raimondo, January 28, 2011
It started, of all places, in Tunisia, a land of sunny beaches and sleepy walled cities – the first stirrings of a revolutionary wave that, before it’s crested, may reach American shores.
The spark flared first in the small town of Sidi Bouzid, in central Tunisia, where Mohamed Bouazizi, a 26-year-old graduate student, was accosted by the authorities for selling produce in the souk – the equivalent of a farmer’s market – without a license. Bouazizi, like many in emerging economies, could not find a job in his field – or any other field – and so was forced to resort to hawking olives and oranges to support his family of eight. The officials reportedly humiliated him, and when he went to city hall to try to go "legal," they wouldn’t even let him in the door.
These are the circumstances that led to his now famous act of self immolation: in protest, and in full view of passersby, he stood in front of city hall, poured lighter fluid on himself – and struck a match.
This spark set off a prairie fire still burning its way across the Middle East, a conflagration born of boiling resentment and red-hot anger directed at the authorities that has already spread to Egypt and Yemen, and shows every sign of flaring up well beyond the region. As a global economic downturn punctures the delusions of economic planners and technocrats worldwide, the bursting of the bubble brought on by unrestrained bank credit expansion is generating a political tsunami that promises to topple governments from North Africa to North America.
Egypt is the perfect candidate for what we might call the Bouazizian revolution – a US-supported kleptocracy ruled by a coalition of the military, the technocrats, and Washington, with the overarching figure of Hosni Mubarak – now 82 – presiding over it all. As in Tunisia, one of the key issues is the succession: rumors that the Egyptian dictator was planning to pass power on to his son, Gamal, fueled popular fury against this latter-day Pharaoh. In both cases, the state is controlled by a single party – in Egypt, it is the National Democratic Party — still resting on the long-ago laurels of an anti-colonialist uprising, and since reified into a bureaucratic incrustation on the body politic.
Another similarity – which, somehow, most commentators have failed to note – is that all these upsurges are against regimes that have enjoyed practically unqualified US military and political support. Tunisia’s Ben Ali was a favorite of George W. Bush’s, and the Tunisian tyrant continued to enjoy support from the Obama administration. US aid to the regime hovered in the $20 million range, all of it in military, "anti-terrorist," and anti-narcotics detection sectors, and was slated for an increase in FY 2010. Egypt, of course, is the linchpin of US-friendly countries in the region, and Yemen is the latest battleground in our never-ending "war on terrorism."
Just follow the money. The American taxpayers have shelled out an average $2 billion-plus per year to our Egyptian sock puppets since 1979. As for Yemen, as Warren Strobel points out, "U.S. aid to Yemen increased significantly in fiscal year 2010 to about $67 million, and is due to increase in the current fiscal year to $106 million." That’s not counting $170 million in military aid. This gravy train is undoubtedly the single largest income stream flowing into the country: Yemen, in short, is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the US government. The same can fairly be said about Egypt.
On her January surprise visit to Yemen, Hillary Clinton is said to have "gently chided" Yemeni president Ali Abdullah Saleh to loosen his tenacious grip on the country’s political life, but as she got on the plane to depart she stumbled and took quite a fall – prefiguring the probable fate of Saleh, and, indeed, the various US puppet regimes in the region. The US is taking the same approach to Egypt, where demonstrators are demanding the resignation of Mubarak and being murdered in the streets: oh, but don’t worry, says White House spokesman Robert Gibbs, the Mubarak regime is "stable" in spite of it all.
This is arrant nonsense: Mubarak will follow Ben Ali into exile soon enough. Gamal has already packed up and fled to London with his family – and, reportedly, 100 pieces of luggage! The Egyptian authorities deny it, and the Guardian reports news of the son’s flight "appears to be wishful thinking."
In any case, the geniuses in charge of the US government are quite wrong if they think Mubarak can withstand the rising tide of protest, and the reason for their blindness isn’t hard to see. This administration seems to have forgotten the catchphrase popularized by its Clintonian predecessor: "It’s the economy, stupid." In this case, it’s the world economy, stupid: the global economic downturn that economist Nouriel Roubini – who predicted the 2008 implosion of the financial markets – says "can topple regimes." Commodity inflation means skyrocketing food prices – around two thirds of the consumer price index for emerging economies, as Roubini points out.
Roubini – and nearly every libertarian economist of the "Austrian" school – has long warned about the coming financial crisis of the West, the first seismic tremors of which we have been experiencing here in America since November 2008. But this is just the beginning: in the short term, unfunded liabilities and the interest on the national debt will account for a whopping 60 percent of GDP, and it won’t be long before it’s 100 percent. When that day comes – or, perhaps, long before it – the worldwide economic meltdown will be paying us a rather unwelcome visit, with consequences that are likely to make Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, and Greece look like romps in the park.
Our rulers can’t see the locomotive coming down the tracks, even though they’re standing right in its way: they still insist on the myth of "American exceptionalism," which supposedly anoints us with a special destiny and gives us the right to order the world according to our uniquely acquired position of preeminence. Yet that preeminence is increasingly being called into question by the economic facts of reality – and our own refusal to get our financial house in order. Blinded by hubris, and the habit of authority, the political class in America is no different, in essence, from its counterparts in Tunisia and Egypt: corrupt, arrogant, and used to commanding obedience, the Best and the Brightest are prisoners of their own complacency. Unable to comprehend, or sympathize with, the plight of the world’s miserable masses, encased in a bubble where the worst crisis they have to personally face is a broken chair lift at Davos, these preening Louis XIVs and Marie Antoinettes are in for a rude shock.
The nature of these populist revolts against authority will take on a different character according to where and when they occur, naturally enough: in Tunisia and Egypt, we see protests sparked by petty humiliations such as Mr. Bouazizi had to endure. In Greece and Great Britain, mass upsurges are the result of austerity budgets that cut ordinary people off at the knees while the banksters get bailed out. In America, we see the Tea Party rising against the tyranny of indebtedness and economic strangulation of the ordinary citizen – but this is just a prelude to the rising chorus of discontent and outright rebellion that will threaten American society in the years to come.
The revolutionary wave now sweeping the world will not exempt America, in spite of the myth of "American exceptionalism." We cannot and will not be excepted from the iron laws of economics, which mandate that you can’t consume more than you produce – no matter how many Federal Reserve notes (otherwise known as "money") you print.
The implications for US foreign policy are radical, and unsettling. While the decline and fall of the Roman Empire occurred over centuries of decay and degeneration, the process as it unfolds in America is likely to occur with what, in terms of human history, appears to be lightning speed. As our allies and satraps fall, one by one, across the Middle East and Europe, their fate prefigures our own.
Before we start cheering this world revolution as the salvation of us all, however, it ought to be remembered that revolutionary regimes often turn out to be worse than the tyrannies they’ve overthrown. There’s no telling what direction these political insurgencies will take, either in the Middle East or in America. As a negative example, recall the ideologies that arose in the 1930s in the wake of the Great Depression — German National Socialism, Italian Fascism, and Eurasian Bolshevism – and be forewarned. On a more positive note, here in the United States, at least, the possibilities are more balanced, although the dangers should not be underestimated.
What we are in for, finally, is a radical realignment of power, a vast shift that will break up the political landscape of every country on earth and shatter all the old assumptions. That old Chinese fortune-cookie curse, "May you live in interesting times," is about to come true.
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
RT @BreakingNews: 3 private jets leave Cairo airport under heavy security; #Egypt parliament speaker to make major announcement - NBC #Jan25 Twitter - 76 1 minuut geleden
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Egypt: The Role of the Army Justin Raimondo, January 28, 2011
Will Egypt’s conscript army support Mubarak and repress the people? It doesn’t look like it: the people are greeting army tanks with the soldiers coming out of their vehicles and shaking hands with the cheering protesters. According to the soldiers, they were not given order to do anything, only to protect the physical city (Cairo) — not, the implication being, the Mubarak’s state. The police are another matter: plainsclothesmen are riding around beating people with sticks.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Al Jazeera reports all incoming flights have been suspended.
On Twitter, there are reports that Hosni Mubarak is on a plane to Switzerland.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
He is on TV...with a speach...now
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
The guy is insane. he told the prime minister to resign.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
"Freedom!" the crowds chanted along the banks of the River Nile in Cairo after dark Friday, defying a curfew being enforced by troops with armored personnel carriers and tear gas FULL STORY
President Hosni Mubarak's days, like those of deposed Algerian President Zine El-Abidine Ben Ali, are numbered. The effects on the region were, until today, unthinkable.
Today's Arab revolution is no less significant than those that preceded it in recent decades in Eastern Europe and Latin America. This time, Arabs are not being led by their leaders -- from colonialism to pan-Arabism or Islamism or any other "ism" -- as was the case in the past.
A wonderful expression from a reporter on Sky TV about Mubarak speach.....'it is like re arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic'.....how true
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: A wonderful expression from a reporter on Sky TV about Mubarak speach.....'it is like re arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic'.....how true
love it....oh its so weird not having CF and Ayisha here...im sure they would have a lot to say.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
“People are running out of colors,” said Professor Yadav.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
obama is on cnn live now.
Posted by advocate (Member # 13367) on :
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: obama is on cnn live now.
...and what a waste of time that was!
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
i do agree adv...so now what Mubarek isnt stepping down? are they still gonna stay protesting until he does?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by advocate: Breaking Al Jazeera: Fires near the Egypt Museum, trees of Egypt Museum are on Fire. NDP Building fire spreads
NDP building like Parliment would probably have some fire damage.
The Egypt Museum is nearly solid stone, fire damage isn't likely but water damage from a sprinkler system would do far more damage. The collection in the basement is not protected at all.
Right now I find the rights and democracy of Egyptians far more important than antiquities.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
i heard they had a chain of people around the museum trying to protect it.. thats sad when u try to destroy somethin that has nothin to do with the protest at all
hahah they are worried about americans. but most are married women to egyptian men.i doubt they will wanna leave their families in egypt..they are not showing violence towards americans so y should we be worried?
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Another Killer-President Posted by Lew Rockwell
After watching Mubarak on TV, I think he may have a career in democratic politics; he sounds just like any other president. Everything good is his doing; everything bad is someone else’s. And he will punish you if you give him any trouble. But one thing we can know for sure: his firing of an entire phalanx of stooges, and appointing a new bunch of torturers and thieves, is unlikely to save him.
Posted by organician (Member # 16386) on :
CNN BBC both coming out with "end game scenarios.." Mubarak has lost all credibility" - has now been shot down by Obama (why did it take him so long to respond to this incredible situation?) This will have unbelievable consequences for the region initially but if the great Egyptian people can contain their frustration in the light of what could be a new dawn for such a fantastic country then who knows. I wish you all my heart felt best wishes..Be strong
Posted by Qmar (Member # 12602) on :
any idea if HM speech is fake...no mention of army or police/?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: A wonderful expression from a reporter on Sky TV about Mubarak speach.....'it is like re arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic'.....how true
Did Mubarak tell his PM to step down?
What is Mubarak promising, or is he just trying to put the protests in a context that doesn't match?
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
isnt it mainly the police they want out?i dont think its gonna stop until the whole system is changed.what ever they do there will be consequences..lets just hope that if they get the president to resign that they dont get someone far worse.....
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: A wonderful expression from a reporter on Sky TV about Mubarak speach.....'it is like re arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic'.....how true
Did Mubarak tell his PM to step down?
What is Mubarak promising, or is he just trying to put the protests in a context that doesn't match?
he was blaming everyone else. nothin he had to do with u know how it goes..he said is giv ministers would resign but he will not.all the power the constitution gave me i assure u i am working for the people and giving freedoms of opinions as long as u respect the law. blah blah blah...the americans said he lost touch with the people. and that hes the only one who thinks only he can rule egypt.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: isnt it mainly the police they want out?i dont think its gonna stop until the whole system is changed.what ever they do there will be consequences..lets just hope that if they get the president to resign that they dont get someone far worse.....
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: A wonderful expression from a reporter on Sky TV about Mubarak speach.....'it is like re arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic'.....how true
Did Mubarak tell his PM to step down?
What is Mubarak promising, or is he just trying to put the protests in a context that doesn't match?
he was blaming everyone else. nothin he had to do with u know how it goes..he said is giv ministers would resign but he will not.all the power the constitution gave me i assure u i am working for the people and giving freedoms of opinions as long as u respect the law. blah blah blah...the americans said he lost touch with the people. and that hes the only one who thinks only he can rule egypt.
Last I heard Sadat's corpse was decomposed naturally and no way for science to resurrect Sadat.
Nope, right now Mubarak is the worst Egypt could have at its head.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Hosni Speaks by Justin Raimondo
The “President” of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak, has finally made a public statement broadcast by state-controlled television. The transcription is by me, so it’s not letter-perfect, but you get the general idea:
Hosni speaks:
"We need to stand and take a pose [?] with conscience. I have heard the demands cried and voiced by the people[ and gave] my instructions to the govternment not to supress the people’s demands. I monitored the attempts by some to jump on t he bankwagon and “monger.” {!} I instructed the police, respecting their right of peaceful demonstrations before these demonstrations turned into acts of riots and impairing the efforts to keep order. These demonstrationis woud not have taken place without the “reforms” undertaken by the goverment. In my capacity as President I always stressed that sovereignty will be to the people and I will always adhere as exercising the rights of freedom. There is a fine line separating freedom from chaos. And while I take the side of the people {and their] right to express their views, I also uphold Egypt’s security and any threat to Egypt. Egypt is the biggest population in the region, governed by the rule of law, and we shold be warned of the exampales around us where chaos reigned."
NOTE: He then said he is fighting corruption, poverty, and unemployment, continuing:
"I am aware of the people’s sufferings. However, the problems facing us cannot be achieved through violence and chaos. Only national dialogue. The people must steal away from those who lure us into chaos. We will continue our reforms for a free and democratic society embracing the modern principles. I have taken their side and have always taken the side of the poor people. The economy is too dangeorus to be left to economists. Reforms must be expedited. Our plans to combat unemployment, healthcare, and many others will remain conditional on our ability to maintain security. We will go above the arsons and looting which may indicate further plots to undermine our country."
NOTE: He makes a direct appeal to “the youth,” continuing:
"I address you today in not only as the president but also as a citizen: I have exhausted myself for the good of the country. The cause of reform which we have embraced has[reached the point] point of no return. We will continue them. New steps towards more democracy more freedoms to citizens, new steps to reduce unumployment, develop services, suppport for the poor. Our options and goals will define the shape of our future."
NOTE: More blah blah blad bromides, and continuing:
"The events have left the majority of the people fearful of the future: chaos and further destruction. My first respoinsibility is homeland security [and I] cannot allow this fear to grip our people. I have requested the government to step down today and I will appoint a new goernmentt tomorrow. I will not be lax or tolerant. i will take all the steps to safeguard the security of our people. May god save Egypt, and peace be with you."
Shorter version: I ain’t going anywhere.
Hillary Clinton speaks: “We will continue to partner with the Egyptian government and the Egyptian people.” Translation: Mubarak’s our buddy.
Neocon blog “The American Thinker” gets it wrong: “Mubarak Resigns.” Looks like their thinking cap is on backwards.
So, let’s see: According to Mubarak, it’s all the fault of the former government, which is now sacked, while he, Hosni, has been for “freedom of expression” all along. Gee, is that why opposition parties were ruthlessly repressed? Is that why bloggers were arrested and tortured? Is that why his police have been shooting people down in the streets?
What’s interesting to note is how much Mubarak sounds like — and consciously echoes — his American patrons: the appeal to “non-violence” (when his police are the source of the violence), the harping on “dialogue” (a meaningless bromide: how does one “dialogue” with a cop about to bash your head in, if not kill you?), and most telling of all the use of the phrase “homeland security.”
This is not going to tamp down the rebellion: instead, it will enrage the protesters. And it is likely to enrage the Army, which has just seen its commander, the Defense Minister, Field Marshall Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, given his pink slip. But methinks Mubarak has it backwards, because it looks to me like he, Mubarak, is about to be handed a pink slip by the Army.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
well i dont get into politics but the egyptians make me wanna watch it on cnn. cant stop watching hahahaha.. they are sooo mad...u notice its mostly young men and women protesting? y is that?
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Well, the Egyptian youth represent the majority of Egypt’s population.
"Nine out of ten jobless in Egypt are under age 30, with women disproportionately unemployed. Only 50 percent of young males and 10 percent of young females find a job within two years after leaving school. As a result, these youth spend years—sometimes lifetimes—waiting for a job that matches their skills and meets their pay expectations. In the meantime, they are forced to delay marriage and childbearing, and live longer with their parents. Statistics show that 60 percent of males and 47 percent of females remain unmarried beyond the age of 30."
"Demographic weight without political voice
Of the Egypt’s 80 million residents, two-thirds are under 30. With such a large youth population, it makes sense that government should focus on youth issues. This is unfortunately not the case.
Most Egyptian youth are disengaged from politics; voting at low rates and participating even less in political parties. The 2009 Survey on Young People in Egypt conducted by the Population Council reveals that less than one percent of young people in the 18-29 age group belong to a political party, and only 16 percent of eligible youth cast their votes in the last election: 21 percent of men and 11 percent of women. Those who voted were mostly from the middle- and upper-middle income categories. "
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
well the prsident is really old he should step down and let someone else try ruling egypt hes been there far too long in confort..30 yrs ruling haha the americans would have thrown him out after the 8th yr.i bet mr hosni isnt loosing any sleep from the protesters..ewwww hes probably not in egypt either
Posted by organician (Member # 16386) on :
10 Days to World War III by TheTotalCollapse.com on January 28, 2011
The Lebanese conflict threatens civil war convenient for the US-Israel hawks desperate to invade.
America sends a giant aircraft carrier off the coast of Lebanon strategically placed to strike Syria and Iran.
Egypt has shut down the internet and SMS communication as well as the stock exchange after a brutal freefall.
Russia has threatened to deploy its nukes as a response to NATO’s megalomaniac arrogance.
Georgia’s Mikhail Saakashvili has lauded the Moscow bombings as “payback” for 2008 Georgia-Russia War.
Japanese, US forces hold war games in Japan simulating missile attacks, full-scale invasion [supposedly by China].
Food Speculation: ‘People Die from Hunger While Banks Make a Killing on Food’.
The world is out of control and political leaders have become possessed maniacs with the majority of them just desperate to press that “red button” to liberate themselves from their psychosis. All the while the population is split between equally psychotic maniacs preaching the return of Jesus Christ from the sky [conveniently accompanied by 12,000 angels to protect him] or some other fairy tale Apocalypse, while there are those who are passively consumed with consumption and sinful pleasures last seen from the times of Soddom and Gomorra. The remaining minority passionately fighting for Paradise remain nothing more than a cold drop of water on a semi-molten volcanic rock.
It is self-evident that sooner or later all these developments will lead to World War III given that even the most genuine of solutions is rejected with faecal resistance. All it takes is a bit too much here and a bit too much there and oops that’s it you have SHTF…
10 Days to World War III
DAY 1: The Hariri Tribunal declares Hezbollah linked individuals responsible for the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. Hezbollah goes rogue, takes over the capital of Lebanon. Semi-civil war breaks out. The US and Israel go in for the kill with a five-day bombing raid using bombs packed with over 1,000,000 tonnes of explosives.
DAY 2: Palestinians overthrow their leaders both in the West Bank and Gaza inspired by their Muslim brothers across the Arab world. Hundreds of thousands march towards Israeli settlements with knives, forks, shovels, sticks and stones. A bloody massacre ensues. Their Muslim brothers explode in rage and all over the Arab world both young and old head for the “promised land”; sticks and stones in hand.
DAY 3: The African continent struggling to cope with hunger and poverty comes to the realization that it is now or never. They either take back their land and chase out the colonial powers, influences and mindsets or they will forever remain prisoners of their past. An uprising never before seen in the history of mankind takes over the African continent. Bloodshed doesn’t begin to define the events.
DAY 4: European mummy-boys and daddy’s girls all **** their pants as they wake up to world events. Fear, chaos, violence and complete hysteria breaks out and wannabe-Che-Guevara’s sprout up to lead the anarchy like youth. In desperation the political leadership and financial elite of Europe’s biggest countries decide to clampdown with brutal military force imposed under martial law.
DAY 5: North Korea unleashes 1,000,000 soldiers onto the South while Seoul reacts with strategic missiles pulverizing Pyongyang and all surrounding military and civil installations. Dozens of other global “hotspots” such as the Korean Peninsula explode in military conflict.
DAY 6: China begins to feel the heat, deciding to clamp down on regional conflicts sending Taiwan and Japan into the Abyss with 3-days of 24-hour bombing raids and a military deployment of 300,000 troops into North Korea as backup for Kim-Il-Jong’s regime.
DAY 7: As the Middle East is gripped by near total chaos with savage clashes between Muslims, Christians and Jews, the US decides to deploy nuclear bombers to Iran with the intention of crippling what it defines as the root of its problems against its previous dominance and control in the Middle East.
DAY 8: As the first few strategic nukes detonate on Iranian soil, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev gives green light for the first ten intercontinental ballistic missiles armed with nuclear warheads and biological “bonuses” to head for US soil.
DAY 9: Ten US cities evaporate in nuclear Apocalypse pushing the remaining 272,000,000 Americans towards psychotic rage. Every single US citizen finds someone or something else to point the finger at. Political leaders across the “Land of the Free” seize the opportunity to declare independence bringing the North American continent to full blown civil-war.
DAY 10: US President Barack Obama decides to respond with triple nuclear force wiping Moscow and St. Petersburg off the Russian map. The Americans shut down the internet and the Zionist controlled elite orders its global media empire to stop reporting on world events. China, Russia and the US mull over their next move. As the clock strikes midnight, the globe is engulfed in what will forever be the moment that the world nations declared World War III.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Well, the Egyptian youth represent the majority of Egypt’s population.
"Nine out of ten jobless in Egypt are under age 30, with women disproportionately unemployed. Only 50 percent of young males and 10 percent of young females find a job within two years after leaving school. As a result, these youth spend years—sometimes lifetimes—waiting for a job that matches their skills and meets their pay expectations. In the meantime, they are forced to delay marriage and childbearing, and live longer with their parents. Statistics show that 60 percent of males and 47 percent of females remain unmarried beyond the age of 30."
"Demographic weight without political voice
Of the Egypt’s 80 million residents, two-thirds are under 30. With such a large youth population, it makes sense that government should focus on youth issues. This is unfortunately not the case.
Most Egyptian youth are disengaged from politics; voting at low rates and participating even less in political parties. The 2009 Survey on Young People in Egypt conducted by the Population Council reveals that less than one percent of young people in the 18-29 age group belong to a political party, and only 16 percent of eligible youth cast their votes in the last election: 21 percent of men and 11 percent of women. Those who voted were mostly from the middle- and upper-middle income categories. "
Where are you getting this information from?
Please post a hyperlink otherwise its plagiarism.
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Honestly I did not like what happened yesterday. Too much of violence, riots, torching buildings and lootings.
Egypt does not have a plan. No one is in charge up til now for the transition period. If Mubarak is stepping down what's going to happen????
Egypt already lost billions of dollars in the stock market. Many people will lose their jobs the longer the protests will last.
Egyptians should not think that if Mubarak is gone everything is gonna be nice and cozy. It will take many years to improve the living conditions of people, to create more jobs etc. if it's possible then.
If Mubarak is kicked out and there is no proper government in place Egypt will turn from bad too ugly. I wouldn't wanna be there.
And no one can foresee what kind of impact Mubarak's resignation has for the Middle East especially for the Israel - Palestinian conflict.
Well hopefully by May/June we have a better picture of what's going on cause I am planning to come on holidays (I mean I booked my trips already and I am really looking forward to it). Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Most of what you wrote is correct but is also all his and his regime's doing. They made sure that Egyptians were not able to organize behind a credible leader and over decades jailed and persecuted anyone who seemed a threat. I was shocked today that no one took advantage of the unexpected turn of events and the withdrawing of police forces. With a bit of organization they could've taken over TV stations, formed a revolutionary government and announced to the world and asked of Egyptian support. It would've been on hell of fucking mess.........
In any case no one has a clue how this is going to go but I hope the protests continue as it seems like the only hope. What happens and who takes power is not as important as getting rid of the ones who destroyed the country and sucked the people's blood for so long. And as things progress and people gain more confidence, leaders will appear on the stage.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
10 am in egypt and they have started protesting again. and there have been shots fired and tear gas. the police are back after a full nights sleep. what will happen now?
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Phone lines are back on...just got through to Cairo
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Aljazeera just had a fella say that apart from the Noor ISP there is still dial up internet that works.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
As much as people want a peaceful revolt, many times it won’t happen. Judging by today’s developments and there are many conflicting reports, is that this is far from over. A revolution in Egypt can not be delivered in a nice neat package. We are all witnessed HM response and his brushing this all as nonsense. Sadly a ruthless dictator who is also an Air Force General won’t understand defeat unless a boot is pressed down on his neck.
He thinks he owns Egypt and Egyptians, especially with America’s blatant support and vile policies that are a disgrace to anyone and everyone who embraces humanity and democracy for all. The administration is nothing but an Israeli puppet. Never have I seen such whimsical spineless acts coming from the WH, first it was Biden, then Hillary and now Obama. All of whom failed to take accountability, all of whom refuse to honor the will of the people, all of who are undermining and prolonging the suffering of Egypt and Egyptians.
Policy in the best interst of USA is acceptable but this isn't it. This is in the best interest of Israel. Shame on the cowardly reactions of the WH. The hypocrisy and double standards are sickening, 4 and out.
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
@Exiiled. What do you think, will happen, when Mubarak has disappeared? Is real democracy an option when it is clear that the new democratically chosen leaders won't respect democracy after wards?
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
The Ceaucescus Remembered Posted by Ryan W. McMaken
Given that Mubarak could possibly face a similar fate, I thought it interesting to remember what sometimes happens to dictators. This video looks at the place where the despots and long-time rulers of Romania Nicolae and Elena Caucescu were tried at a makeshift trial and sentenced to be executed. They were then dragged outside and rather chaotically shot by Romanian freedom fighters. Their trial lasted about fifteen minutes, which is probably about at long as the “trials” of thousands of ordinary Romanians who had been murdered by the Ceaucescu regime over the years. Elena was barking orders and making threats right up until the end.
Being a near pacifist, I’m not an advocate of this type of justice, but I can’t say I’ve ever lost any sleep over it either.
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: @Exiiled. What do you think, will happen, when Mubarak has disappeared? Is real democracy an option when it is clear that the new democratically chosen leaders won't respect democracy after wards?
If I told you I know what will happen after HM, I would be lying to you. What I know is I don’t want to be in a country where people don’t have equal rights. I lived in Egypt, I assimilated there, learned Arabic there, know the mindset, know the fears. They deserve a Change, what they do with it, is their choice. I truly believe that Egyptians can form a moderate and just government, where a citizen doesn’t have to worry about disappearing because he called the president a dog.
There are underground torture prisons. People live in fear. People are routinely stopped and incarcerated at late night checkpoints when they look, or don’t answer the right questions. The emergency law, which basically means permanent lockup. This has to end. They need a civilian leadership, and from there let’s see what happens.
There are more than enough intelligent and humane Egyptians that can assume power. There are many, but sadly because of the ruthless regime policy of silencing them, no one knows about them.
So don't say "when it is clear that the new democratically chosen leaders won't respect democracy after wards?" because that is nonsense.
This is unprecedented and never happened before, so you nor I know what will happen tommorow, but tell you what, democracy is in the cards.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
I was surprised at the amount of money the USA gave Egypt....just a little short of what they give to Israel....where has it gone?? Not into any infrastructure or to the people. Now the people are being tear gassed buy products provided by the USA.......That has surprised many who are protesting
The US has a lot to answer for
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: I was surprised at the amount of money the USA gave Egypt....just a little short of what they give to Israel....where has it gone?? Not into any infrastructure or to the people. Now the people are being tear gassed buy products provided by the USA.......That has surprised many who are protesting
The US has a lot to answer for
The aide is miitary aide, other aide is something between 300-400 million, and I think (could be wrong) that it is only 250 million for 2011.
HM uses that aide, suez revenues, etc to fund his police (interior ministry). Don't ask how much that it because, there are no public records. The amount is not listed in the nation's budget. It's off limits, talk about transparency. America's pal.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Egypt has the second largest military in the Middle East.
My reading is this. Mubarak, with US advice, given with a view to helping their mideast client hold on to power a little longer, has made a concession in order to dispel anger and preserve the appearance of legitimacy.
He has taken the edge off a mass mobilisation that would otherwise have toppled him.
The future is uncertain, but my guess is that Mubarak will not be able to prevent his slide from power indefinitely and that the ensuing chaos and disorder will be resolved when the military step in, claiming to offer a period of calm during a transition to democracy, but, in the fullness of time, postponing elections and becoming yet another client dictatorship obedient to Washington.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
om cnn they said usa gives egypt 1.3 billion a year.. and thats for the army . cas we train with the egyptian army. mmmm usa is worried about the muslim brotherhood taking over.. and frankly so am i if they are a religious freaks like them terrorists.. i dont know anything about them. but what egypt doesnt need is a freak religous leader right now...
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by longusername: Egypt has the second largest military in the Middle East.
My reading is this. Mubarak, with US advice, given with a view to helping their mideast client hold on to power a little longer, has made a concession in order to dispel anger and preserve the appearance of legitimacy.
He has taken the edge off a mass mobilisation that would otherwise have toppled him.
The future is uncertain, but my guess is that Mubarak will not be able to prevent his slide from power indefinitely and that the ensuing chaos and disorder will be resolved when the military step in, claiming to offer a period of calm during a transition to democracy, but, in the fullness of time, postponing elections and becoming yet another client dictatorship obedient to Washington.
Egyptians will humble American Foreign Policy in the Middle East. Said it here: January 29, 2011
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
^That is my call. Based on nothing more than protestors that are relentless and have yet to face the full power of regimes might.
I could be wrong, and I am often. But I believe there is no turning back.
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
No, it's too late for turning back. I sincerely hope that the people of Egypt will make the right choices. For themselves, not for other countries...
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
well the gov screwed themselves when they turned off internet. 80% of them young men were probably online and are probably online everyday.so when they turned off the net u know they god bored and mad and joined the protest...
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
The collaborators of the US foreign policy need to be expelled from the Middle East. European Union, how does Arab Union sound. Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
This is all too horrible to watch; so I decided to stay off TV today. Egypt is truly in deep deep crisis - who would have thought....
El Baradei called for peaceful protests - unfortunately many Egyptian demonstrators are going berserk since yesterday.
by RickSanchezTV Demonstrators loot luxury homes, gated compounds in Cairo's suburbs as residents try to defend their property - NBC #Egypt http://twitter.com/#!/BreakingNews
beleidy Amr El Beleidy Getting news Nasr City is being looted by armed people, all the building porters are out on the street w/ weapons.sticks/pipes #Jan25 Egypt http://twitter.com/#!/beleidy
jonjensen Jon Jensen Updates on Carrefour: our reporter on scene said Carrefour Maadi OK, but City Center mall was looted last night, many shops. #Jan25 #Egypt http://twitter.com/#!/jonjensen
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Sultan Al Qassemi
BREAKING Al Jazeera: Omar Suleiman is now Vice President 1 minute ago
Sultan Al Qassemi Facts: Lieutenant General Omar Suleiman (born 1936) is the Egyptian General Intelligence Director. He is the head of intelligence in Egypt. 1 minute ago
Spoke with my husband this morning. Heard multiple gunshots in background during conversation. He is in Old Maadi near police station
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Btw, I deeply hope all our members and their families - which currrently reside anywhere in Egypt - are and will stay safe.
My thoughts are going out to you all.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Does anyone know what is happening in Mansura?
Lilly, I pray the same. ES and its members has become a part of my social life. I have some dear friends on this forum and even those who I am not personally close to I do have a fondness for as part of the community. Really I feel that we are all virtually holding hands together while watching and praying for the best for our friends.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Omar Suliyieman Mr. Milirary Man. NO!!! Egypt wants a Civillian Goverment. Egypt needs a geek. Not a dude who knows guns!
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: I was surprised at the amount of money the USA gave Egypt....just a little short of what they give to Israel....where has it gone?? Not into any infrastructure or to the people. Now the people are being tear gassed buy products provided by the USA.......That has surprised many who are protesting
The US has a lot to answer for
That has surprised many who are protesting? Huh? Are speaking about Egyptians who are protesting? It's pretty common knowledge among the average Egyptian that US gives most $$ in "aid" to Israel and 2nd to Egypt. |And the reason many Egyptian people so widely criticize the US govt is not because they're biting the hand that feeds them, but as you poiont out, they never see this money. All gets siphoned into military expenditures.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Omar Suliyieman Mr. Milirary Man. NO!!! Egypt wants a Civillian Goverment. Egypt needs a geek. Not a dude who knows guns!
Yes military....but there has never been a vice president before....is Mubarak ready to go?
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: I was surprised at the amount of money the USA gave Egypt....just a little short of what they give to Israel....where has it gone?? Not into any infrastructure or to the people. Now the people are being tear gassed buy products provided by the USA.......That has surprised many who are protesting
The US has a lot to answer for
That has surprised many who are protesting? Huh? Are speaking about Egyptians who are protesting? It's pretty common knowledge among the average Egyptian that US gives most $$ in "aid" to Israel and 2nd to Egypt. |And the reason many Egyptian people so widely criticize the US govt is not because they're biting the hand that feeds them, but as you poiont out, they never see this money. All gets siphoned into military expenditures.
From The TV pics I watched the protesters were hold up the empty canisters....they seemed surprised that it said Made in USA
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Okay I just called my former Egyptian colleague who lives in Cairo (Dokki) and he said his street is so far fine, some lootings occurred nearby.
He said the Egyptians are a 'folk of camels'. They endured and endured until they couldn't take it anymore.
He's also very saddenend about the fires and the many lootings.
He asked me again when I come to visit - I told him 'mush delwati'. Glad I called him; I feel much better.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Omar Suliyieman Mr. Milirary Man. NO!!! Egypt wants a Civillian Goverment. Egypt needs a geek. Not a dude who knows guns!
Yes military....but there has never been a vice president before....is Mubarak ready to go?
Mubarak will get the boot. Soon, especially if the Military keeps its promise not to fire on ppl.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: From The TV pics I watched the protesters were hold up the empty canisters....they seemed surprised that it said Made in USA [/QB]
that's good ol' US for ya. yes we'll give you gazillions of $$ in aid of course...oh, did we not mention the fine print where you can only use it to buy our specially-priced $300 US-made toilet seats? Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Omar Suliyieman Mr. Milirary Man. NO!!! Egypt wants a Civillian Goverment. Egypt needs a geek. Not a dude who knows guns!
Well my husband (and former US LTC) said that with everything what's going on there right now the military is strongly needed to bring the unrest down and also for the transition period until new presidential elections will take place.
Hubby said Mubarak is an idiot and that he could gotten out of the whole situation much better. He should have just mentioned in his speech yesterday that he won't be up for the next elections and will do anything to make the transition to the new government as smooth as possible. But Mubarak is like a dog who won't give up the bone. I don't know how many days more it will take for him to realize his days of ruling Egypt are over. What has to happen that he will finally resign???
Posted by AmbiBambi (Member # 18389) on :
SO Amr's Vodo Cell was working at 11Am Egypt time..but now its almost 6PM and its off again..Christ on a bike people!!!Make up your mind!!
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Interesting tweets:
Sultan Al Qassemi Political analyst tells me: Mubarak will give power to Omar Suleiman on the condition that he does not get prosecuted in the future. 2 minutes ago
Sultan Al Qassemi Talking to political analyst on the phone now. Tells me that Mubarak will abdicate & give full presidency to Omar Suleiman. 4 minutes ago
who thinks if Mubarak made Ahmed Shafik the vice president (current minister of civil aviation and someone who has been tapped as possible contender) ... he could've saved his own behind and be able to step down more gracefully months later?
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Ahmed Shafiq was just appointed new Prime Minister of Egypt.
Ahmed Shafiq is a war veteran. Mubarak is placing his best army buddies in key locations, just before he steps down or dies #Jan25 12 seconds ago http://twitter.com/#!/ShereefAbbas Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
» BBCWorld BBC Global News Hosni Mubarak's two sons Alaa and Gamal have arrived in London #Egypt #jan25 4 minutes ago
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: who thinks if Mubarak made Ahmed Shafik the vice president (current minister of civil aviation and someone who has been tapped as possible contender) ... he could've saved his own behind and be able to step down more gracefully months later?
critics would have chewed him for his Air Force links.
the people want someone who is Very distant from the military and NDP.
There is some chick on Al-Jazeera echoing this now.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily_Egypt: » BBCWorld BBC Global News Hosni Mubarak's two sons Alaa and Gamal have arrived in London #Egypt #jan25 4 minutes ago
They have been here for a couple of days
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily_Egypt: » BBCWorld BBC Global News Hosni Mubarak's two sons Alaa and Gamal have arrived in London #Egypt #jan25 4 minutes ago
Gamal def not because he was at the crisis meeting at the NDP headquarters two days ago.
bencnn benwedeman At NDP HQ. Gamal Mubarak in the building but won't speak at presser. NDP (ruling party) ppl NERVOUS #Jan25 27 Jan http://twitter.com/#!/bencnn Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily_Egypt:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily_Egypt: » BBCWorld BBC Global News Hosni Mubarak's two sons Alaa and Gamal have arrived in London #Egypt #jan25 4 minutes ago
Gamal def not because he was at the crisis meeting at the NDP headquarters two days ago.
Way way back on here I put a thread on here....he left with his family and 97 pieces of luggage
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
well pretty much anyone with an ounce of experience that would allow them to be a viable candidate is part of a 30 year of regime and be called "mubarak's buddy" by someone. from what I can see, that's one person tweeting his opinion... i think the protesters are aiming at mubarak to step down, full stop and aren't really caring about who's he's trying to appoint below him at this point.
But some Western diplomats, senior members of Egypt's ruling National Democratic Party and political analysts in Cairo say a new contender has emerged: Ahmed Shafiq, the minister of civil aviation and a former commander of Egypt's air force, who spearheaded a turnaround begun in 2002 at the country's flagship carrier, Egypt Air.
"Shafiq has a good reputation. He's tough, honest, and low-key," a senior official in Egypt's ruling party said. "His name is definitely out there.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Way way back on here I put a thread on here....he left with his family and 97 pieces of luggage [/QB]
that was reported by the daily mail in uk. they usually cover really important issues like which D-list celebrity got new implants and guess who is now dating who in celeb-land. Not exactly the BBC or guardian.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: well pretty much anyone with an ounce of experience that would allow them to be a viable candidate is part of a 30 year of regime and be called "mubarak's buddy" by someone. from what I can see, that's one person tweeting his opinion... i think the protesters are aiming at mubarak to step down, full stop and aren't really caring about who's he's trying to appoint below him at this point.
But some Western diplomats, senior members of Egypt's ruling National Democratic Party and political analysts in Cairo say a new contender has emerged: Ahmed Shafiq, the minister of civil aviation and a former commander of Egypt's air force, who spearheaded a turnaround begun in 2002 at the country's flagship carrier, Egypt Air.
"Shafiq has a good reputation. He's tough, honest, and low-key," a senior official in Egypt's ruling party said. "His name is definitely out there.
Utimately it will be what the people want and not a Mubarak assignee. I think this is something that needs to be stressed. The ppl are in control, not Mubarak, and Anyone in his admin is DQ.
My opinion and I could be wrong but feeling the vibe of the revolt, this is what I believe.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Way way back on here I put a thread on here....he left with his family and 97 pieces of luggage
that was reported by the daily mail in uk. they usually cover really important issues like which D-list celebrity got new implants and guess who is now dating who in celeb-land. Not exactly the BBC or guardian. [/QB]
Daily mail is all he deserves..... Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: well pretty much anyone with an ounce of experience that would allow them to be a viable candidate is part of a 30 year of regime and be called "mubarak's buddy" by someone. from what I can see, that's one person tweeting his opinion... i think the protesters are aiming at mubarak to step down, full stop and aren't really caring about who's he's trying to appoint below him at this point.
But some Western diplomats, senior members of Egypt's ruling National Democratic Party and political analysts in Cairo say a new contender has emerged: Ahmed Shafiq, the minister of civil aviation and a former commander of Egypt's air force, who spearheaded a turnaround begun in 2002 at the country's flagship carrier, Egypt Air.
"Shafiq has a good reputation. He's tough, honest, and low-key," a senior official in Egypt's ruling party said. "His name is definitely out there.
Utimately it will be what the people want and not a Mubarak assignee. I think this is something that needs to be stressed. The ppl are in control, not Mubarak, and Anyone in his admin is DQ.
My opinion and I could be wrong but feeling the vibe of the revolt, this is what I believe.
In reality if Mubarak planned for this in the manner good little dictators do, he would've appointed a "Vice President".
Yet that isn't something Mubarak did now did he?
Anyhow with massive protests such as these and the public not trying to quell the protests themselves, even some police officers joining in.....
Its possible that the upper escheleons of the government outside of the cabinet contingency plans have been made quite some time ago for a Sadat like end to Mubarak rule.
I don't believe the entire Egyptian government is foot soldiers for Mubarak. They are people too.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Omar Sulayman is a US Foreign Policy Collaborator
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
I stand corrected, for the first time in 30 years...
"Egypt's intelligence chief Omar Suleiman is appointed Vice President" according to my metro area's daily.
Yeah he doesn't look like the kinda guy who will kiss babies on the campaign trail.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Mubarak Regime initiating the “terror plan”, using police in plain clothes to rough up neighborhoods, so that people will beg for yesterday(Mubarak).
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Mubarak Regime initiating the “terror plan”, using police in plain clothes to rough up neighborhoods, so that people will beg for yesterday(Mubarak).
In otherwords these plain clothes officers are encouraging the protesters to destroy neighborhoods.
possibly starting some of these fires themselves?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Mubarak Regime initiating the “terror plan”, using police in plain clothes to rough up neighborhoods, so that people will beg for yesterday(Mubarak).
In otherwords these plain clothes officers are encouraging the protesters to destroy neighborhoods.
possibly starting some of these fires themselves?
Changing the dynamics of the demonstrations from protesting against government to lawlessness.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Mubarak Regime initiating the “terror plan”, using police in plain clothes to rough up neighborhoods, so that people will beg for yesterday(Mubarak).
In otherwords these plain clothes officers are encouraging the protesters to destroy neighborhoods.
possibly starting some of these fires themselves?
Changing the dynamics of the demonstrations from protesting against government to lawlessness.
m*therf*ckers.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
I hope the people realize this.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
i just tried to call nicola and she is fine.the lines are bad..shes blocked off her room cas there are guns and looting and she and friends took over a bar and locked everyone out.. shes laughing..people with sticks and guns..she said they have lootes the museum its really bad she says...they took 2 mummies
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
US acknowledges bandaid not enough - hinting that HM step down. Woopy Doo. All kidding aside US has no credibility because their collaborators will be ousted in Egypt, and in other ensuing Arab nations.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
there are 50 thousand people protesting right in cairo and the army is on the peoples side..and the there are no police...the people with guns she assumes are the looters.. the looting is really bad.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Keyword: collaborators
Who are they?
NOT AFRAID NO MORE!
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
but all the looting is stupid....loot the presidents house not a monumental museum.. thats stupid. they will take and destroy things people may never see again... dumbasses....
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
ruh roh:
"We are calling for protesters in Cairo to take over the U.S. embassy, like Iran has done," said Mr. Shafai. "We want the U.S. to apologize for all the support for Mubarak and all that they have done to the Egyptian people over 30 years."
I'ma play some dire straits on youtube. Sick of these analysts, politicians. Ahahahahaha You got the country on the streets of Cairo.
What do they want? another washington ......
not
power to the people... In Egypt, Tunisia, also Yemen and Algeria (which will fall so quick once Egypt falls ,,,
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: ruh roh:
"We are calling for protesters in Cairo to take over the U.S. embassy, like Iran has done," said Mr. Shafai. "We want the U.S. to apologize for all the support for Mubarak and all that they have done to the Egyptian people over 30 years."
KSA, and its Wahabbi head has the US as tool in its tool kit.
House of Saud gets America to roll over and beg more often than the other way around.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Omar Sulayman is a US Foreign Policy Collaborator
You bet your life on it. And he was one of the people in "waiting".
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Omar Sulayman is a US Foreign Policy Collaborator
You bet your life on it. And he was one of the people in "waiting".
Don't matter what i think. Ppl reject him.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Edit: *Sorry, just realized I didn't express myself correctly in the above post.*
Those who know of him know is Mubarak's lap dog and those who don't will still be weary that he was appointed by Mubarak who's desperately trying to hold on to power. There really is no way for anyone to be approved by the people unless Mubarak goes.
A side point, I completely disagree with Elbaradei's call to respect curfew. That is not in any way necessary to secure the cities from thugs.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: Edit: *Sorry, just realized I didn't express myself correctly in the above post.*
Those who know of him know is Mubarak's lap dog and those who don't will still be weary that he was appointed by Mubarak who's desperately trying to hold on to power. There really is no way for anyone to be approved by the people unless Mubarak goes.
A side point, I completely disagree with Elbaradei's call to respect curfew. That is not in any way necessary to secure the cities from thugs.
This is a people revolution. It's not perfect but this is what it is. If elbaradei is the leader, then he should step up. He's not. The NDP and Police need to burn more.
30+ years of anger does not cease in a week.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
"I felt deeply sorry today when I came this morning to the Egyptian Museum and found that some had tried to raid the museum by force last night," Zahi Hawass, chairman of the Supreme Council of Antiquities, said Saturday.
"Egyptian citizens tried to prevent them and were joined by the tourism police, but some (looters) managed to enter from above and they destroyed two of the mummies," he said.
How is everyone doing? Anyone in Egypt posting yet? I have basically been up and glued to Al Jazeera for 2 days. I have 3 Egyptian sim cards which something told me to keep when I moved back to US. So fortunately I am able to try to make contact with my husband at least every 2 hours. But it's not good. I can hear the fear increasing in his voice. It all feels like a dream to him. I am beside myself with worry as I'm sure others on here who have husband's and family in Egypt still. I am doing my best to tweet and retweet and cross post stuff on facebook. Trying to be a voice for a country that has been silenced. Everyone should go on Twitter and thank those who are tirelessly doing the same thing helping to spread the word. Twitter and Facebook were eeirly silent yesterday with no friends from Egypt saying anything. If any of my friends in Egypt is reading this please know that I'm keeping you all in my thoughts. Hoping everyone stays safe and hoping to talk to you all soon.
Iman
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: PERSONAL MESSAGE:
How is everyone doing? Anyone in Egypt posting yet? I have basically been up and glued to Al Jazeera for 2 days. I have 3 Egyptian sim cards which something told me to keep when I moved back to US. So fortunately I am able to try to make contact with my husband at least every 2 hours. But it's not good. I can hear the fear increasing in his voice. It all feels like a dream to him. I am beside myself with worry as I'm sure others on here who have husband's and family in Egypt still. I am doing my best to tweet and retweet and cross post stuff on facebook. Trying to be a voice for a country that has been silenced. Everyone should go on Twitter and thank those who are tirelessly doing the same thing helping to spread the word. Twitter and Facebook were eeirly silent yesterday with no friends from Egypt saying anything. If any of my friends in Egypt is reading this please know that I'm keeping you all in my thoughts. Hoping everyone stays safe and hoping to talk to you all soon.
Iman
same here i got through to walids mom and ferrett and they are fine..but the lines in zagazig are so bad she could not hear me.and ferrettes line was bad but she could hear me..there are still a few we havent heard from yet cas the internet in all of egypt is still blacked out...
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: PERSONAL MESSAGE:
How is everyone doing? Anyone in Egypt posting yet? I have basically been up and glued to Al Jazeera for 2 days. I have 3 Egyptian sim cards which something told me to keep when I moved back to US. So fortunately I am able to try to make contact with my husband at least every 2 hours. But it's not good. I can hear the fear increasing in his voice. It all feels like a dream to him. I am beside myself with worry as I'm sure others on here who have husband's and family in Egypt still. I am doing my best to tweet and retweet and cross post stuff on facebook. Trying to be a voice for a country that has been silenced. Everyone should go on Twitter and thank those who are tirelessly doing the same thing helping to spread the word. Twitter and Facebook were eeirly silent yesterday with no friends from Egypt saying anything. If any of my friends in Egypt is reading this please know that I'm keeping you all in my thoughts. Hoping everyone stays safe and hoping to talk to you all soon.
Iman
Sorry,Iman.Lets hope for the best,but i felt the same as you when reading FB:no Egys around as usual. Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal:
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: PERSONAL MESSAGE:
How is everyone doing? Anyone in Egypt posting yet? I have basically been up and glued to Al Jazeera for 2 days. I have 3 Egyptian sim cards which something told me to keep when I moved back to US. So fortunately I am able to try to make contact with my husband at least every 2 hours. But it's not good. I can hear the fear increasing in his voice. It all feels like a dream to him. I am beside myself with worry as I'm sure others on here who have husband's and family in Egypt still. I am doing my best to tweet and retweet and cross post stuff on facebook. Trying to be a voice for a country that has been silenced. Everyone should go on Twitter and thank those who are tirelessly doing the same thing helping to spread the word. Twitter and Facebook were eeirly silent yesterday with no friends from Egypt saying anything. If any of my friends in Egypt is reading this please know that I'm keeping you all in my thoughts. Hoping everyone stays safe and hoping to talk to you all soon.
Iman
same here i got through to walids mom and ferrett and they are fine..but the lines in zagazig are so bad she could not hear me.and ferrettes line was bad but she could hear me..there are still a few we havent heard from yet cas the internet in all of egypt is still blacked out...
How did you call? And what kind of number did you call landline phone, mobile phone, or a skype account?
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal:
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: PERSONAL MESSAGE:
How is everyone doing? Anyone in Egypt posting yet? I have basically been up and glued to Al Jazeera for 2 days. I have 3 Egyptian sim cards which something told me to keep when I moved back to US. So fortunately I am able to try to make contact with my husband at least every 2 hours. But it's not good. I can hear the fear increasing in his voice. It all feels like a dream to him. I am beside myself with worry as I'm sure others on here who have husband's and family in Egypt still. I am doing my best to tweet and retweet and cross post stuff on facebook. Trying to be a voice for a country that has been silenced. Everyone should go on Twitter and thank those who are tirelessly doing the same thing helping to spread the word. Twitter and Facebook were eeirly silent yesterday with no friends from Egypt saying anything. If any of my friends in Egypt is reading this please know that I'm keeping you all in my thoughts. Hoping everyone stays safe and hoping to talk to you all soon.
Iman
same here i got through to walids mom and ferrett and they are fine..but the lines in zagazig are so bad she could not hear me.and ferrettes line was bad but she could hear me..there are still a few we havent heard from yet cas the internet in all of egypt is still blacked out...
How did you call? And what kind of number did you call landline phone, mobile phone, or a skype account?
i called a cell and landline.. i know which is which and i wont ever post either number... so i guess u will never know which
Posted by AmbiBambi (Member # 18389) on :
Landlines and cells phones are working for most everyone..I doubt skype would work, as Internet is still down in Egypt.
Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal:
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: PERSONAL MESSAGE:
How is everyone doing? Anyone in Egypt posting yet? I have basically been up and glued to Al Jazeera for 2 days. I have 3 Egyptian sim cards which something told me to keep when I moved back to US. So fortunately I am able to try to make contact with my husband at least every 2 hours. But it's not good. I can hear the fear increasing in his voice. It all feels like a dream to him. I am beside myself with worry as I'm sure others on here who have husband's and family in Egypt still. I am doing my best to tweet and retweet and cross post stuff on facebook. Trying to be a voice for a country that has been silenced. Everyone should go on Twitter and thank those who are tirelessly doing the same thing helping to spread the word. Twitter and Facebook were eeirly silent yesterday with no friends from Egypt saying anything. If any of my friends in Egypt is reading this please know that I'm keeping you all in my thoughts. Hoping everyone stays safe and hoping to talk to you all soon.
Iman
same here i got through to walids mom and ferrett and they are fine..but the lines in zagazig are so bad she could not hear me.and ferrettes line was bad but she could hear me..there are still a few we havent heard from yet cas the internet in all of egypt is still blacked out...
How did you call? And what kind of number did you call landline phone, mobile phone, or a skype account?
I don't use Skype. When I left Egypt I kept my Vodafone sim card active. When I visited Egypt last October I bought an Etisalat card because it gets free incoming SMS while roaming in the US. Just one week ago and by pure coincidence my husband sent me a Mobinil sim card which is an open line (not prepaid). So I have all 3 networks. Once cell phones came back up (this morning) I was able to call him directly using the mobinil and he can call me. I am paying 6 LE per minute for roaming charges and 4 le per minute for incoming calls but I don't care about the cost right now. They are still unable to send SMS. I have been able to call landlines as well as mobiles. However, there have been many time i get a busy signal and have to keep trying. I think it's just the networks overloaded with too many calls. Many people still having trouble reaching both landlines and mobiles from here using American cell phones and american landlines. I think the fact that I am using an Egyptian number on roaming is making it easier for me.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Now Al Jazeera banned from covering Egypt events as from Sunday...because of extensive coverage
quote:Originally posted by AmbiBambi: Landlines and cells phones are working for most everyone..I doubt skype would work, as Internet is still down in Egypt.
Skype is working for us to call egypt phone numbers.
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
....
Posted by Tigerlily_Egypt (Member # 3567) on :
"Many embassies asking their nationals to get out of #egypt, some staying out of solidary" #jan25 4 minutes ago http://twitter.com/#!/ellozy
That should be a little difficult to do since some airlines cancelled their flights.
DailyNewsEgypt The Daily News Egypt US Embassy will offer assistance to other US citizens who wish to depart: statement 8 minutes ago http://twitter.com/#!/DailyNewsEgypt
It would be great to hear that the Germans are offering this option too but nothing so far.
(In the news:) Turkey, India, Bahrain, Jordan, Lebanon and Saudia Arabia are sending planes too to evacuate their citizens from Egypt.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
34 Muslim Brotherhood, including leaders were freed under mysterious circumstances. Their cells were unlocked, prison officials not present. They don't know what is going on, or what to to do now, they called officials to tell them are they officially free, to which they recieved “we don't know” replies. They are on Al-Jazeera saying they will not flee. They said they will not flee from the prison or flee from their struggle against the dictatorship of HM.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Awesome video that has more than 550K hits. It ends with this great quote by JFK
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable”
.... The Egyptian government's efforts to limit communications within the country has triggered a wave of activism from an international group of free speech activists on the Internet called Telecomix.
.... When Internet and mobile services were cut off in Egypt on Thursday night, though landlines were operational, members immediately got to work to send information to Egyptian fax numbers. Searching for a common string of characters found in Egyptian fax machines numbers on Google, they discovered a large amount of numbers.
..... they determined the Egyptians didn't need additional motivation. Instead, they were interested in information on how to communicate with each other and the outside world. The activists thus began providing instructions for using dial-up modems and amateur radios, known as Ham radios, which the Egyptian people could use to communicate.
... While these groups have only been able to receive a small amount of messages of a short length with an unknown source, the Egyptian people's use of amateur radio to transmit messages represents an interesting utilization of old-fashioned technology to circumvent government restrictions. Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Despite Egyptian authorities shutting down access to the internet, protesters in Cairo have been able to get online by some creative methods. Check out the slideshow to see how they're doing it.
There is information in these tweets that can tell Egypt how to get past the government block and get online.... Pass it to them when able.
I love the internet! It makes the people strong.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Trying to confirm the arrest by Army of Habib Adly (Minister of Interior), which if true means that HM is gone sooner rather than later.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
A number of political movements in Egypt have asked Mohammad El Baradei to form a transitional government #jan25
This realistic unlike the Omar Sulayman BS appointment by HM to be new President
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Very conflicting info is speading.
1- HM on his last hrs as Pres.
2- Army will fire on pro-democracy proestors tonight.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
1150 Egyptian state-owned Nile TV shows video of President Mubarak meeting top military commanders. By his side were Vice-President Omar Suleiman and Defence Minister Tantawi. The channel said the meeting took place in the "centre for military operations" to "follow up the armed forces' operations to control the security situation".
I keep getting an error message 'plug-in failure' when I try to get Al Jazeera English.... What can I do?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Why are fighter jets repeatedly flying so low over protestors? To intimidate them? Is it a sign of an ensuing massacre. There are 150,000 ppl downtown. And more Army trucks carring soliders moving to tahrir.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
live audio reports from witnesses in square on al jazeera saying they're going lower and lower, to intimidate and scare the crowd. it's having the opposite affect
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Surly they wouldn't massacre the people while the world is watching.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
egyptian tv presenters instructing people not to watch al jazeera bcs only the official tv station is showing the real situation. sounds like they're assuring that the world can't be watching tonight.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Where else can I watch besides Al Jazzera? I can't get on for long there.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Where else can I watch besides Al Jazzera? I can't get on for long there.
SKY and BBC
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
D_ oro...watch CNN been watching it for days
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
We are all Khaled Said Excellent news: All protesters, opposition leaders, opposition parties & groups agree to form a group together and chose Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei to lead this group as a representative to negotiate with Mubarak to leave. They offer him safe exit from Egypt. Urgent situation now: In Tahreer square, there are more than 200 thousand people now including Judges, AlAzhar scholars, Opposition leaders (from all parties) from protesters are made up of women, children, men, young and old, Muslims, Christians & Athiests. Jetfighter planes are flying low in the square with helicopte...rs as well. I'm really scared a massacre is about to happen!
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
PC and Micky, Do either of you have a link to the live streaming news? I have down loaded two different things and all I can find on the online sites are videos.
I want live news and I am frustrated. One place I go says that the servers are over loaded.
Thanks for helping me. Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: PC and Micky, Do either of you have a link to the live streaming news? I have down loaded two different things and all I can find on the online sites are videos.
I want live news and I am frustrated. One place I go says that the servers are over loaded.
What I find on bbc and cnn are videos not the live streaming news, and sky has a down load but I don't know how to use it. The sky player is only available in the UK and Ireland.
Micky I had Al Jazeera on all day yesterday but today I get a notice that there is a plug in failure. Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
It asked me to update Real Player 10.5, but my pc wouldn't do it... I can still watch AJE though..
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
i am watching it now...dont know what your pc problem is..mine works good...i am sorry, check for your pluginns and download them go on CNN right now interview with El Baradi
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
ok, I did do some kind of update last night but didn't select everything. Maybe thats the problem, I will check into it.
Thank you.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
What is it going to take for THAT man to accept that he is not wanted We are seeing desperate acts from a desperate man!
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: What is it going to take for THAT man to accept that he is not wanted We are seeing desperate acts from a desperate man!
a bomb up his ass Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: ok, I did do some kind of update last night but didn't select everything. Maybe thats the problem, I will check into it.
Thank you.
Al Jazeera English live stream is the one to watch,D´Oro.
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: PC and Micky, Do either of you have a link to the live streaming news? I have down loaded two different things and all I can find on the online sites are videos.
I want live news and I am frustrated. One place I go says that the servers are over loaded.
Thanks for helping me.
Also,for some reason the streaming is soo much better on the smartphone applications available for Al Jazeera English as well as CNN International.For this last one it even flashes for you whenever there are breaking news about it.
Go directly to the Application search and find to download them. Yayyyy for iPhone!!!!!!
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
iPhone,iPhone...iPhones....yayyyyy!!!
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Sashy, I was watching it yesterday but today I could not get on. Finally I can see it on the Real Time player. The image is smaller but it is live and stable.
Thanks to everyone for your help.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
What do most people think of ElBaradei? My husband doesn't like him and says most of his friends don't like the fact that he thinks he can fly in and be an insta-leader. They'd rather see someone who's been in Egypt from the start of everything.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
3 New Developments In Alexandria
1- Many women of all ages partaking in pro-democracy demonstrations. This wasn't the case in previous days.
2- The majority of signs are now in English, with many reading “West Stop The Hypocrisy”. The use of English is to attract the attention of the west.
3-Muslim Brotherhood leaders are seen publicly.
Al-Jaazera English (Alexandria Correspondent)
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: What do most people think of ElBaradei? My husband doesn't like him and says most of his friends don't like the fact that he thinks he can fly in and be an insta-leader. They'd rather see someone who's been in Egypt from the start of everything.
He is a valuable asset at this point of the revolution. All opposition parties including the Muslim Brotherhood have endorsed him to speak on their behalf. Having a face for the pro-democracy protesters, any face, is a sign of opposition unity and is necessary to topple the government.
He is temporary fix, and a very good fix for an eventual transitional government. His decision to join the protestors in Tahrir tonight has strengthened his position as the opposition representative.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Sashy, I was watching it yesterday but today I could not get on. Finally I can see it on the Real Time player. The image is smaller but it is live and stable.
Thanks to everyone for your help.
Have you tried a different browser? Try them all.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: What do most people think of ElBaradei? My husband doesn't like him and says most of his friends don't like the fact that he thinks he can fly in and be an insta-leader. They'd rather see someone who's been in Egypt from the start of everything.
beleidy Amr El Beleidy People who don't like ElBaradei, use him for the transition and vote for who you like, no point starting squabbles now #Jan25 Egypt 40 minutes ago
Let's look a little down the road. Egypt has about 30 political parties and movements. That number could easily swell. We don't know how Egypt will vote, but we can guess. My opinion is that Egypt will have a balanced representation.
The Muslim Brotherhood will undoubtedly be one of the largest parties, but it won't be able to have a majority unless they build a coalition with other parties such as Socialist Labor Party, Egyptian Arab Socialist Party, Umma Party, Social Justice Party, and other leftists parties.
Other parties such as New Wafd Party, National Progressive Unionist Party and similar Liberal Parties can also form a coalition. A new party might also arise that shares similar ideology. Copts will also support this form of coalition and can easily have as much as 35 seats in a 454 seat parliament.
I think it will be a nice balance but ultimately whoever can win the hearts and minds of the young and poor will rule the country.
Muslim Brotherhood are so popular because they are very active in neighborhoods. They build clinics and hospitals. They financially support widows, and orphans. There are many other programs that they have such as helping couples get married. Despite this popularity they won't be able to rule outright, but in terms of coalition it will be just as I have stated. There will be a coalition of Islamic Parties and a coalition of Secular Parties. I think if the Muslim Brotherhood form a governing coalition their ideology will focus more on social policies rather than political or foreign polices (with the exception of Israel). I can easily see them adding a special tax on alcohol, for example.
There is something that most parties have in common:
1-Arab Unity, which will only grow stronger as more corrupt regimes fold, and Arab unity grows.
2-Reexamining Foreign Policy especially with Israel
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
One question: Why do you think the Military remained on the sidelines today?
My guess is lack of confidence. If the commanders, including Tantawi was utmost confident in a successful crackdown, he would have gave the go ahead. I am only guess but I believe there is dissent between the older pre -973 commanders and the younger post-1973 commanders. If this divide materialized we could witnessing a civil war rather than pro-democracy demonstrations. Power to the people. Egyptians are making everyone in the Arab World proud from Morocco to Babylon. They might have been hibernating past 30+ years, but they are in fact leaders of the Arab World. The bravery today in Tahrir was just amazing. Top Notch Amazing.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
see whats funny is the world and hosini thinks that his egyptian people are stupid.. but i know some egypts are the smartest people when it comes to gettin online.. F.Y.I. EGYPTIANS ARE NOT STUPID........ DUH..... what they dont understand is some of these egyptians are online 24/7 in these cafes.. ofcourse they know what they are doin when it comes to bypassing proxies and etc... and they are taking the army for granted. the army is there to protect the streets and to inforce the curfew so they tried to defy them. and some got arrested
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
Aren't Egyptians afraid that the next after Mubarak might be just as a dictator?I mean,after more than 30 years of ruling a change has to happen at any price.What we all know is that most protesting are those of the younger generation,as usual. Don't get me wrong,i hugely support that uprising.Just wanted the opinion of those of you better informed than myself.
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: What do most people think of ElBaradei? My husband doesn't like him and says most of his friends don't like the fact that he thinks he can fly in and be an insta-leader. They'd rather see someone who's been in Egypt from the start of everything.
beleidy Amr El Beleidy People who don't like ElBaradei, use him for the transition and vote for who you like, no point starting squabbles now #Jan25 Egypt 40 minutes ago
A bit of a stupid way to think. How can anybody have an opinion about Baradei if they don't know him? Why should it be impossible for him to work as a leader? The departments are the people doing the jobs, they report the leader.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Too Cute! Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
The Baradei leadership possibillity is not in favor by MANY MANY Egyptians ..no one will hijack the Egyptian Revoltuion! http://twitter.com/#!/Gsquare86 Posted by snow white (Member # 15647) on :
Best quote I heard today ... ' MUBAREK IS ON AN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE ' It's taken him 30 years to realise now that there is an economic divide in Egypt!!!! No **** Sherlock!!
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
Sorry the above should have quotes - it's not my opinion it's the opinion of the blogger and apparently she feels the same as my husband and his friends.
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
quote:Originally posted by snow white: Best quote I heard today ... ' MUBAREK IS ON AN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE ' It's taken him 30 years to realise now that there is an economic divide in Egypt!!!! No **** Sherlock!!
just looked at the albumn...the pic of mhammed atef 22,shot in head is shocking.I can remember when 2nd Gulf War was on TV and couldnt believe what I was seeing but the internet takes it to a new level.
Posted by Marching (Member # 2802) on :
Guess this was my problem, and I have high speed cable..... Must be Texas.
... The result of the Al Jazeera English blackout in the United States has been a surge in traffic to the media outlet's website, where footage can be seen streaming live. The last 24 hours have seen a two-and-a-half thousand percent increase in web traffic, Tony Burman, head of North American strategies for Al Jazeera English, told HuffPost. Sixty percent of that traffic, he said, has come from the United States....
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: What do most people think of ElBaradei? My husband doesn't like him and says most of his friends don't like the fact that he thinks he can fly in and be an insta-leader. They'd rather see someone who's been in Egypt from the start of everything.
beleidy Amr El Beleidy People who don't like ElBaradei, use him for the transition and vote for who you like, no point starting squabbles now #Jan25 Egypt 40 minutes ago
A bit of a stupid way to think. How can anybody have an opinion about Baradei if they don't know him? Why should it be impossible for him to work as a leader? The departments are the people doing the jobs, they report the leader.
Stupid you say? I don't think so. People who initiated this revolution - which started on Twitter and FB - did not have any leader. Egyptians don't have many choices right now. ElBaradei on the other hand was before #Jan25 a well-known opponent of the Mubarak regime and he's offered to help with the transition until a new government is formed.
Honestly it would be wrong to remove all big names right now from the government (yes that's what the Egyptians want - a fresh start) but if decisions are being made too drastically it could deeply backfire on the country.
And if the situation in Egypt becomes more unstable extremists could see their golden chance and blow themselves up here and there. At least under Mubarak's iron fist such incidents didn't happen too often but this could change the longer the unrests last and no satisfying solution is found.
Btw, another million march is planned for Tuesday. Stay tuned.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
I'm as thrilled as anyone by what I see in the Cairo streets, but when I turn on American television I see only grim faces. Robert Gibbs looked frightened during his delayed press briefing yesterday afternoon; he didn't know what to say. Obama's comments last night were equivocal and opaque: I'm with Mubarak, for now. This is his 9/11 -- the day Arabs blindsided a president.
I thought this is what he wanted for the Arab world: democracy! But the market dropped, and the cable shows are filled with mistrust of the Arab street. Our talking heads can't stop talking about the Islamists. Chris Matthews cried out against the Muslim Brotherhood and shouted, Who is our guy here? -- as if the U.S. can play a hand on the streets. While his guest Marc Ginsberg, a former ambassador to Morocco whose work seems to be dedicated to finding the few good Arabs out there, said that forces outside Egypt are funding the revolt -- a grotesque statement, given the homegrown flavor of everything we have seen in the streets; and when Matthews pressed him, Ginsberg said, Hamas... Iran.
Matthews's other interpreter was Howard Fineman. Why aren't there more Arab-Americans on U.S. television? I give PBS credit for gathering Mary-Jane Deeb and Samer Shehata (along with the inevitable Steven Cook of CFR) to speak of the real political demands of the protesters (and not galloping Islamism!)-- but when CNN aired Mona Eltahawy saying that the protesters are not violent, the moderator stomped on her and said, what about those burning vehicles? As if eastern Europe changed without similar destruction.
So racism against Arabs is shutting down the American mind once again. And all my friends must turn to Al Jazeera English to get the soul of the story: that these events are electrifying to Arabs everywhere, a heroic mobilization. And not only to Arabs. When ElBaradei says, I salute the youth for overturning a pharaonic power, lovers of human freedom everywhere must be thrilled. We are seeing a dictator dissolve before our eyes. These are the events we cherished in history books; let us embrace the Egyptian movement.
Why is America so afraid?
Because we are seeing a giant leap in Arab power, in which the people of the largest Arab nation demand that they be allowed to fulfill their potential. This change portends a huge shift in the balance of power in the region. For the U.S. has played only a negative role in the Egyptian advance, supplying the teargas, and it seems inevitable that Egypt will cease to be a client state to the U.S. And thereby threaten the order of the last 30 years.
Whatever government replaces the current one in Egypt, it will not serve American interests, which have been largely defined by Israel, the American-Israeli "imperium," as Helena Cobban put it. Since the 1970s (as Joel Beinin shows here), Egypt has been the lynchpin of a US strategy of supporting Israel. The special relationship with Israel has steered our foreign policy, encouraged the destruction and occupation of Iraq, and even fed American Islamophobia. Key to preserving this order has been our ironclad support for the Arab dictatorships in Jordan, Egypt, Tunisia and elsewhere-- by providing the policy with a "moderate Arab" seal. Hey Egypt was a bulwark against the Islamists, and Egypt was crucial to the peace process, as all the correspondents tell us on American TV.
The danger to America and Israel is that the Egyptian revolution will destroy this false choice of secular dictator-or-crazy Islamists by showing that Arabs are smart articulate people who can handle real democracy if they get to make it themselves. And when they get it, they are likely to strip the mask off the peace process. On Al Jazeera English, there is much talk about the Palestinians. One commentator said that the "humiliation" of the Palestinians is feeding the Egyptian revolt. (I will never forget how Egyptian construction workers put down their tools to stand and applaud the Code Pink buses as we left El Arish for Gaza in June 2009.) And in his beautiful statement calling on Mubarak to serve his country by leaving, ElBaradei said that a government that heeds the people's will would turn soon to the Palestinian issue.
This is the great fear, in Israel and in Washington, too: that revolution in Egypt will reveal the despotism of the existing order for the Palestinian people, who have seen their rights and properties and security and water taken from them during the peace process that Egypt has helped sustain.
The grimness on the faces of American Establishment figures reflects the greatest threat to authority, the crumbling of an existing order. Support for Israel has defined order in this region for decades and steered our support for dictators. Ever since Truman defied the State Department in 1947-48, we have been committed to maintaining a Jewish state in the Middle East despite local opposition. This has required great American expenditure, and probably cost Bobby Kennedy his life, but it has been an order. That order has required lip service to Arab democracy, but hey, Mubarak is better than those Islamists.
Now that true Arab democracy is finally coming on stage, that moral structure falls apart. I say morals, because support for Israel has always had a moral rationale. The American establishment felt good about our support for Israel because it seemed like the right thing: We had helped to solve the age-old Jewish Question of Europe. We had ended Jewish persecution. Israel was the answer to Never again! If you doubt that this is the moral calculus of our policy, step into the Center for Jewish History in New York this month. There must be four or five exhibits that touch on Jewish persecution in the Middle East and Europe. The destruction of Italian Jews. The destruction of Berlin businesses that provided the finest linens, photography, interiors... The persecution of Moroccan Jews. It never ends, along with an exhibit dedicated to the "miracle" of Israel's creation with American Jewish support.
Thus the Jewish community has hunkered down in an anachronistic identity-- secure in the completely-contradictory knowledge that the American power structure will support Israel. All this is changing in Egypt. An Arab liberation story is forcing itself into world consciousness. "The vast, vast majority of protesters are peaceful people, mostly middle class, and they are showing great solidarity. People are still defending the Egyptian Museum," Issandr El-Amrani reports, inspiringly. There is bound to be great suffering in Egypt, we pray for a smooth transition, but if the Egyptians are only left to handle their own affairs, who doubts that the polity that will emerge from this chaos will be more responsive to human rights, and will strike a blow against the fetters of anti-Arab racism that have chained the American mind.
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: Aren't Egyptians afraid that the next after Mubarak might be just as a dictator?I mean,after more than 30 years of ruling a change has to happen at any price.What we all know is that most protesting are those of the younger generation,as usual. Don't get me wrong,i hugely support that uprising.Just wanted the opinion of those of you better informed than myself.
Sash, Some Egyptians are undoubtedly afraid. Especially the wealthier ones who can freely travel, who have options to educate their children, who don't have to worry about having food on the table, who lived a realtively prosperous life around a brutal regime.
The sad truth is that number is minuscule in comparison to the people who feel there is no hope for the future. I am not merely alluding to the poor but also to middle class people, and college graduates who find it increasingly harder to make ends meet.
So let's put ourselves in the mindset of those people who are on the streets, they have genuine grievances that they truly believe are a direct cause of the policies of the past 30 years. They want change, and we don't know what is to become of it, but it is Change and it doesn't simply come with fear as some Egyptians might have, but also HOPE that most people have.
Yes there is fear but there is also Hope, and Egyptians and Arabs can not continue living in fear, they are taking their own fate into their own hands, and for that lets support and appluad them.
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
Protests in Khartoum...
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: What do most people think of ElBaradei? My husband doesn't like him and says most of his friends don't like the fact that he thinks he can fly in and be an insta-leader. They'd rather see someone who's been in Egypt from the start of everything.
beleidy Amr El Beleidy People who don't like ElBaradei, use him for the transition and vote for who you like, no point starting squabbles now #Jan25 Egypt 40 minutes ago
A bit of a stupid way to think. How can anybody have an opinion about Baradei if they don't know him? Why should it be impossible for him to work as a leader? The departments are the people doing the jobs, they report the leader.
Stupid you say? I don't think so. People who initiated this revolution - which started on Twitter and FB - did not have any leader. Egyptians don't have many choices right now. ElBaradei on the other hand was before #Jan25 a well-known opponent of the Mubarak regime and he's offered to help with the transition until a new government is formed.
Honestly it would be wrong to remove all big names right now from the government (yes that's what the Egyptians want - a fresh start) but if decisions are being made too drastically it could deeply backfire on the country.
And if the situation in Egypt becomes more unstable extremists could see their golden chance and blow themselves up here and there. At least under Mubarak's iron fist such incidents didn't happen too often but this could change the longer the unrests last and no satisfying solution is found.
Btw, another million march is planned for Tuesday. Stay tuned.
Think you don't understand what I mean. The protesters are absolutely right in what they've asked for. But: what will follow after this? The Egyptians prefer a new name, perhaps as a symbol for a new future. Majority does not trust Baradei. Nevertheless the country needs a person who is able to bring stability, otherwise all this only has created chaos. The future of the world is dependant on what will happen in Egypt. The protests are growing like a inkspot. It's dangerous...
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Well let me repeat myself again. El Baradei is NOT the future, he's merely available to help transition from chaos to a new government.
Amr Moussa (head of the Arab League) said yesterday that he would like to see a multi-party democracy for Egypt and I can only agree with him. It means different parties - which are chosen by the Egyptian people in fair elections - have to make a coalition to rule the country together. I think this makes a lot of sense. You don't want to have another NDP or the MB alone in power. Nothing would change; infact it could get worse.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Re: Mohamed AlBaradei
Come on guys, lets not focus too much on him. He is merely an instrument in this point of the revolution. Which is a point in which the opposition (Wafd, April 6, MB, Kefaya, Socialist, Rightist, Centrist, Christians, and everyone else) is against the NDP.
When the NDP is toppled, and when free elections are in place, these same parties in the opposition, and newer ones I imagine will all be vying for power. Coalitions will be formed and it will be very interesting to see how people will vote.
We don't know how they will vote. If the NDP is toppled, and if a civil war doesn't ensue, this will be the very first time that true free elections will occur.
The last semi "free elections" in 2005, the Muslim Brotherhood won 20% of parliment seats. This was despite widespread voter fraud by the NDP. My guess is that they can win 35% of seats outright. That is still 15% short of a majority, and even if they do have a majority coalition, I truley believe Egypt will have a balanced goverment.
If we are talking personally, then personally I wish for Pro Pan-Arab goverment. One that is centrist. One that will have the best interest of Egypt and bond closely with other Arab socities, especially nations with regimes that will hopefully topple.
I would like to see free travel and trade amongst Arab nations. I would like to pressure applied on Israel and the US with regards to their foreign policies. I would like to see visionaries in power, those with a foresight for the future. I also hope that westernized Arabs are part of any new goverments as they can help develope and organize nations. I hope to see westernized Arabs return from exile, to take part in a new Era. I don't want these people alienated like they have been by current regimes.
This is the kind of party I want to see in power, not just in Egypt but across the Arab World.
I won't mind concessions to Muslim Parties such as the MB, but ultimately I don't want the parties to impose their religious ideology on the people. It's politics, and give and take is part of the process, I expect it and I hope it will be conducted in a civil manner.
Enough bloodshed, Arabs have seen how others have prospered. It's time they join in the prosperity.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Al-Jazeera is so cool. They are playing Om Kulthuum in-between their coverage of Egypt's pro-democracy uprising. Truly a revolutionary feel. Here is one of her songs, with English subtitles. Baeed 3aneck/Away From You.
Nasser in the past failed by isolating Islamists. Egypt unlike any other Arab country epitomizes these two ideologies, and let's keep in mind the significance, out of every 3 Arabs, 1 is Egyptian.
Nasserism meets Islamism is truly representative of the majority of Egypt, and for that matter, the Arab world in general.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Correction: Egyptians comprise 1 in 4 Arabs.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
A great video that captures the struggle of the pro-democracy protesters making their way to Tahrir. As you know the strategy of the Interior Ministry (police) was to block all the main arteries to Tahrir. One of these arteries is Oct 6 Bridge. The will and determination of Egyptian pro-democracy protesters is an inspiration to everyone who stands for freedom, justice and democracy.
Honestly I have mixed feelings about the whole situation. I just know the longer the uncertainty lasts of which way Egypt will go the more problems will arise. Egypt is at stake big time. Stability is needed first of all to push towards reforms. Every day which passes by is a day lost now.
And I can only hope that not all Egyptians think that when Mubarak is gone everything is gonna be instantly different and better - at least not for the next 15, 20 or more years.
And please people should also not forget that Mubarak wasn't all the monster and criminal people try to portray him right now. He did many good things for his citizens (forget here for a second the emergency rule and torture of political dissidents and arrested people in general) but especially with the living conditions of the poor, the overpopulation rate, the illiteracy rate and creating jobs he tried but his hands were tied. Not even any new president will overcome these hurdles for many many years - if ever. Don't expect wonders. We have democratic countries here in the Western world and not even here all people live like they should.
Mubarak ruled his country harshly but successful for almost 30 years. Overall Egypt was a stable country. He enjoyed excellent relationships with many other nations. Of course there is a big fear present right now of what will happen inside and outside of Egypt once he's gone.
And also let's not forget that many, many Egyptians lived great because of Mubarak, the profited from the high corruption rate in the country, they are just as much to blame as the still-President himself.
Right now I feel like Egyptians want to break loose from their dictatorial government no matter what it will costs and how many lives have to be shed, they want to be free, but no one really knows how to and moreso what's gonna happen next.
Not to have a plan is not good to say the least.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: And please people should also not forget that Mubarak wasn't all the monster and criminal people try to portray him right now.
Really?!
Torture and Sexual Exploitation of Prisoners
Police and the Security forces engaged repeatedly in stripping and blindfolding victims; suspending victims by the wrists and ankles in contorted positions or from a ceiling or door-frame with feet just touching the floor; beating victims with fists, whips, metal rods, or other objects; using electric shocks; dousing victims with cold water; and sexual abuse, including sodomy.
Your opinion and mine for that matter are insignificant. The Egyptian people are the ones who suffered for 30 years. They are the ones who have been victims for 30 years. Their voice is loud and clear and your sentence about Mubarak not being that bad, contradicts their suffering.
Posted by Questionmarks (Member # 12336) on :
It is as if how people talk about somebody who has died: good, and positive. Of course also Mubarak has done positive things. Maybe under pressure from other, but he did. To me the most important proof of his real intentions is the fact that he denies to go when his people are begging for it. While the country is at war. While there is chaos and unsafety. Have you seen what they have done during the last week? Then, to me, it is the proof that Mubarak is a monster and a selfish one too!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: It is as if how people talk about somebody who has died: good, and positive. Of course also Mubarak has done positive things. Maybe under pressure from other, but he did. To me the most important proof of his real intentions is the fact that he denies to go when his people are begging for it. While the country is at war. While there is chaos and unsafety. Have you seen what they have done during the last week? Then, to me, it is the proof that Mubarak is a monster and a selfish one too!
100% accurate and true. Mubarak is a monster. He is indeed selfish. For the sake of his country he should flee and let Egypt heal. It's the very least he could do after the abuse, torture and monstrous atrocities he subjected his own people to for 30 years. But he is a monster and a monster has no empathy and will destroy his in the process. He's a traitor against his people as well, and calls for him to stand trial are commendable.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Mubarak is an old man. He ruled over Egypt for 30 long years, he can't imagine that his country would functioning at all without him. And he might be right cause Egyptians endured and endured and didn't think for themselves. Most of them rather lived in fear and acceptance. And Egyptians need to be careful what they wish for - having no plans will end in more misery.
Honestly I don't think Mubarak will voluntarily abdicate by himself; he needs to be pushed from the throne - at the right time though.
I just hope that behind the scenes many negotiations are taking place right now between different politicians and parties and people weigh on all options carefully cause when I remember the pictures from Tahrir Square in the last couple of days I feel very concerned.
When I saw El Baradei yesterday walking inside the masses I felt very strongly he looked nervous and uncomfortable. Perhaps since he's also older the situation was a little too much and too suddenly for him.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Finally!!!!!!!! The first aircraft took off this morning from FRA airport to pick up German citizens (diplomats and expat workers and their families) in Cairo and bring them back home.
Honestly right now I would try to leave too, the situation in Egypt is just too critical. People can always come back (and will come back when safe) but it might be horrible if they can't leave when they are finally ready to.
I was reading that many foreigners just want to stay in Egypt and wait it out. IMHO the current situation in Egypt is not an adventure, it could indeed lead to civil war.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Many nationalities are being evacuated. The US is chartering flights, and will repordely bill people afterwards. Jordan has increased their flights to 6 per day. Many people stuck in cities that are far from Cairo and are literally stranded, many afraid to travel by road.
Food shortages are a reality now, and ATM's are all empty, banks are closed. ES members choosing to remain in Cairo will eventually feel the pinch if matters escalate.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Mubarak has been the puppet of the west for years. The west fed him money for his army and police...because he had a peace agreement with the Israelies... He didnt give a damn about the Egyptian people or the infrastructure....he is laughing all the way to the bank
As a Brit I feel ashamed that my country along with the EU and especially America have let this go on for 30 years. They did not give a monkey for the people only so called peace...and that is frail only being held up by US money again....
Bow your heads in shame America EU and UK. You are not hearing any one from above telling him to go
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Exilled, good article (Why is America so afraid?). Thanks for posting it.
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
Ria is in Cairo with her husband and baby Zain. She has 10le to her name and with ATMs empty no way of getting money. As a tour rep her husband is not able to work during the crisis. I'm her mother, as there is no internet she has lost links with this site to find out what's happening to others so I decided to join and keep her updated
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Well said PC! You can practically see Mubarak's fingernails scraping down the wall as he tries to cling on Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Welcome Tootse aka WK/Ria's mum! It is nice to get an update on your daughter and family, just sorry it is not so great news. At least you know she is ok and you can keep in touch with her. Hoping this all ends peacefully soon. Keep us updated and send her our love.
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
Apparently Ria's husband received a call from the British Embassy just over a week ago. They said they have looked at their papers and have decided to overturn their decision and he can have a visa! She does not have to appeal now. He handed in his passport last Sunday and was told to pick it up yesterday... The Embassy had been shut until further notice and they have his passport and visa.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
@PinkCherry if western governments were as honest as you, justice would be more forthcoming. The West is playing a dangerous game. Resentment will build up by the ever patient Egyptian. The US,UK and EU should take a right stand and stand by the people and not a brutal dictator that has ruled oppressively for 30 years.
@D_Oro My pleasure
Egyptian pro-democracy protesters are relentless. Entering it's seventh day, more than 100,000 are yet again in Tahrir. The people revolution continues. This doesn't include congregation of pro-democracy protesters in other parts of the city.
HM continues to fire blanks. Firing hated and feared Habib Adly as Interior Minister and replacing with Mahmoud Wagdy is nonesense. The people want the regime to resign, including every member of the NDP. They have torrmented Egypt for 30 years, enough is enough.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
That's brilliant news about not having to appeal. Typical about the timing Posted by Dilemma (Member # 16672) on :
I'll post again when I've arrived home Yes the US will get us out only to "safe havens" Europe, Greece,etc. then we have to make plans to get home - we have to pay. I'm upset how they are burning Cairo down, women are getting raped, businesses are pulling out of Egypt, citizens have to protect their belongings, tourism is shot, the people that paycheck to paycheck don't know how they will eat because they can't go to work
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Hello Ria's mom!!! GREAT news for your daughter and son-in-law and hopefully very soon they will be back with you in the UK. Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
German student in Cairo recounts brutality inside police station
"Before his release, Alexander recalled being told: 'We should just kill you, because then we could say that it was the hordes outside, and we'd get away with it.'"
Political Crisis Starts to Be Felt Economically By NICHOLAS KULISH and SOUAD MEKHENNET Shortages of fuel, rising prices for food and a slowdown of many kinds of businesses are increasing the sense of crisis. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/world/middleeast/31alexandria.html?ref=world Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
oh God...I hate it when I start crying....pictures of brave young people dead,admiration of a people that have at last rebelled when so much is at sake,international intrigue, words, faith, truth,rapes,best and worst of humankind,no easy solution,hope,and not sure why I accidently ended up in such a peaceful haven when I had soooo planned to be there....my heart brakes for egypt....oh and thanks so much for everyone here that cares...
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Nawaal Saadawi, 80 year old feminist says she's out on the streets everyday. #DemocracyNow #womenpower
Omar Sharif (I know some of you ladies have the hots for him ) says it's time for Mubarak to go. -reuters
Former Army Intelligence Chief, says Army will not fire on protesters. -AJ live
Thousands upon thousands making their way to Cairo for tomorrows Million Man March. - AJ live
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Demonstrators have reached more than 250,000 in tahrir and downtown Cairo. - AJ Live
Wafd Party “new government UNACCEPTABLE”
-AJ Live
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
I am watching today on my laptop. Very good picture. I hope Mubarak steps down soon, how can they go on and on. What about food and drink?
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
Like yesterday no one seems to be taking any notice about the curfew which apparently started at 3o'clock egypt time today
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Thats what they are probably relying on that people will give in coz of lack of food...Ive just been talking to Luxor and people are scared...they have a sister in Cairo with an daughter that has just turned diabetic a couple of weeks ago when I was there and I think it might be worth the 10 hour drive to get the family as they are scared they might not be able to get her medicine.....
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Regarding food - some people asking their corner small stores to give them supplies on credit as cash points/ATMs are out of money.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
...sounds like there isnt even trains from cairo for them to get to Luxor....I just dont want little Nada to be an innocent victim of this chaos...Mustafa said even in Luxor the banks have shut and you cant even buy credit for your phone...bloody vodaphone....
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: I am watching today on my laptop. Very good picture. I hope Mubarak steps down soon, how can they go on and on. What about food and drink?
Great to hear you got coverage again. According to widespread reports, the demonstrations are very peaceful and people talking to each other.
As far as food and drink go, well the crowds are handing out Aish and water. Aish is like pita bread but it is thicker and harder, but much more filling.
"Al Arabiya reporter in Cairo: Hisham Talaat Moustafa (indicted NDP murderer of Lebanese singer Suzanne Tamim) has fled from prison." @SultanAlQassemi on Twitter
Dang it!!! I knew he wouldn't rot away in jail. Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
i wonder how many of them protesters would leave the protest if the net was back on?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
"A government that is scared from #Facebook and #Twitter should govern a city in Farmville but not a country like #Egypt #Jan25" - Wael Ghonim
Egyptian blogger and Head of Marketing at Google's UAE office, who's been missing since Thursday:
concrete 'walls' brought in by cranes to block exits to Tahrir Square....
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: I am watching today on my laptop. Very good picture. I hope Mubarak steps down soon, how can they go on and on. What about food and drink?
Great to hear you got coverage again. According to widespread reports, the demonstrations are very peaceful and people talking to each other.
As far as food and drink go, well the crowds are handing out Aish and water. Aish is like pita bread but it is thicker and harder, but much more filling.
just talked to Ayisha...there isnt any food in the stores in luxor..everything comes from Cairo , they have no petro ..there isnt any?and they cant even go to any banks ALL CLOSED.but she has a positive attitude
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
Just wondering whose tweets everyone is following to get any and all info. Yesterday was frustrating since the tv only showed reruns from Saturday's videos for the most part. Seems harder and harder to get any info at all. I only signed up at twitter for this specific reason but so far the people I'm following are:
3arabawy sandmonkey bencnn gsquare86 waelabbas
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Proud pro-democracy protestors cleaning up the streets of their country.
quote:He did many good things for his citizens (forget here for a second the emergency rule and torture of political dissidents and arrested people in general) but especially with the living conditions of the poor, the overpopulation rate, the illiteracy rate and creating jobs he tried but his hands were tied. Not even any new president will overcome these hurdles for many many years - if ever.
I think that a lot more of the truth will come out once Mubarak is gone. What you are picturing here is totally the opposite of what was experienced by the poor. How on earth did he try to help the illiteracy rate when the students have to actually bribe their teachers in order to get taught? If my husband's father hadn't paid the bribes he would have sat in a classroom all day only to be told to read the book. No instruction, no help whatsoever if you didn't pay the bribe.
Furthermore, why were his hands tied from fixing the corruption? Because he was the main corrupter.
You paint a very false picture here by saying that he was not the monster that people say he was. My husband has the marks on his back to prove it from the torture he endured simply as a result of sitting in a cafe with a 2 day old shadow on his face instead of being cleanly shaven.
Please don't apologize or support this evil man. It discredits millions of people who have been oppressed way too long.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
"Women and girls are, beside the boys, are in the streets"
"the USA goverment with Israel and Saudia Arabia, they want to void this revolution. They are spreading rumors that Egypt will be ruined, that we have no food, to raise the price of food, the have a policy to spread fear......they are trying to abort the revolution"
"they are trying to frighten us with Muslim Brotherhood, that Egypt will be like Iran....."
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Just wondering whose tweets everyone is following to get any and all info. Yesterday was frustrating since the tv only showed reruns from Saturday's videos for the most part. Seems harder and harder to get any info at all. I only signed up at twitter for this specific reason but so far the people I'm following are:
i just talked to cheeky ferret...she is doing ok ..she is safe , and mama ferret is with her...the only problem is she cant use ATM machines, she said there isnt any money in them and the banks are closed still.she wanted me to tell all her friends HI and she is ok
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Glad to have the updates on Ferret and Ayisha. Thankyou Micky.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chef Mick: i just talked to cheeky ferret...she is doing ok ..she is safe , and mama ferret is with her...the only problem is she cant use ATM machines, she said there isnt any money in them and the banks are closed still.she wanted me to tell all her friends HI and she is ok
u think western union is working?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chef Mick: i just talked to cheeky ferret...she is doing ok ..she is safe , and mama ferret is with her...the only problem is she cant use ATM machines, she said there isnt any money in them and the banks are closed still.she wanted me to tell all her friends HI and she is ok
Next time you speak to Cheeky please tell Exiled said:
Shwitter Right. And tell her I said to be safe.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
RT @iyad_elbaghdadi: Scene from #Tahrir Square: Little girl holding up a sign that says "Mubarak get out, my arm's hurting already"
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Just wondering whose tweets everyone is following to get any and all info. Yesterday was frustrating since the tv only showed reruns from Saturday's videos for the most part. Seems harder and harder to get any info at all. I only signed up at twitter for this specific reason but so far the people I'm following are:
We've been hearing this from "insiders" but this is the first time that a major news organization has made such a statement. If true then this is wonderful news, and as such I'll sleep better tonight.
Power to the people.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Mubarak is an old man. He ruled over Egypt for 30 long years, he can't imagine that his country would functioning at all without him. And he might be right cause Egyptians endured and endured and didn't think for themselves. Most of them rather lived in fear and acceptance. And Egyptians need to be careful what they wish for - having no plans will end in more misery.
Honestly I don't think Mubarak will voluntarily abdicate by himself; he needs to be pushed from the throne - at the right time though.
I just hope that behind the scenes many negotiations are taking place right now between different politicians and parties and people weigh on all options carefully cause when I remember the pictures from Tahrir Square in the last couple of days I feel very concerned.
When I saw El Baradei yesterday walking inside the masses I felt very strongly he looked nervous and uncomfortable. Perhaps since he's also older the situation was a little too much and too suddenly for him.
Well I am sure the same could be said for Germans in 1938.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
I was told yesterday the internet is still down in Shebein el-kom, and mobile phones are down too.
I knew international calling to mobile phones were not possible, but I thought the internet was up.
Anyhow I heard on MPR that the only ISP that still was functioning through all this was "Noor".
Every other ISP shut down. The ISP "Noor" doesn't serve Shebin el-kom.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: More and more reports are coming in that the Army will not fire at pro-democracy protestors. This time by Al-Jazeera's rival Al-Arabiya.
Egypt army says won't use violence against citizens #Jan25 #Jan28 #Egypt #Mubarak
Egypt army considers people's demands 'legitimate':
We've been hearing this from "insiders" but this is the first time that a major news organization has made such a statement. If true then this is wonderful news, and as such I'll sleep better tonight.
Power to the people.
Then why are they blocking them in? This is alarming to me. The people have been peaceful, why block their path to get out if they will support the people?
Al Jazeera is saying that this could be the calm before the storm. The people are fearing that if there is any kind of clash it would be from the police, not the army.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: More and more reports are coming in that the Army will not fire at pro-democracy protestors. This time by Al-Jazeera's rival Al-Arabiya.
Egypt army says won't use violence against citizens #Jan25 #Jan28 #Egypt #Mubarak
Egypt army considers people's demands 'legitimate':
We've been hearing this from "insiders" but this is the first time that a major news organization has made such a statement. If true then this is wonderful news, and as such I'll sleep better tonight.
Power to the people.
Then why are they blocking them in? This is alarming to me. The people have been peaceful, why block their path to get out if they will support the people?
Al Jazeera is saying that this could be the calm before the storm. The people are fearing that if there is any kind of clash it would be from the police, not the army.
I started getting really scared when I read they were being blocked in as well. Let's hope they truly are with the people. I mean the army is the people so I don't know why they wouldn't be moved to support them.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: More and more reports are coming in that the Army will not fire at pro-democracy protestors. This time by Al-Jazeera's rival Al-Arabiya.
Egypt army says won't use violence against citizens #Jan25 #Jan28 #Egypt #Mubarak
Egypt army considers people's demands 'legitimate':
We've been hearing this from "insiders" but this is the first time that a major news organization has made such a statement. If true then this is wonderful news, and as such I'll sleep better tonight.
Power to the people.
Then why are they blocking them in? This is alarming to me. The people have been peaceful, why block their path to get out if they will support the people?
Al Jazeera is saying that this could be the calm before the storm. The people are fearing that if there is any kind of clash it would be from the police, not the army.
I started getting really scared when I read they were being blocked in as well. Let's hope they truly are with the people. I mean the army is the people so I don't know why they wouldn't be moved to support them.
Sorry folks, but I don't understand where both of you are getting this idea that the "army is blocking them in"?
I am not trying to be snotty, but I am reading the tweets at work and I don't see it.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: More and more reports are coming in that the Army will not fire at pro-democracy protestors. This time by Al-Jazeera's rival Al-Arabiya.
Egypt army says won't use violence against citizens #Jan25 #Jan28 #Egypt #Mubarak
Egypt army considers people's demands 'legitimate':
We've been hearing this from "insiders" but this is the first time that a major news organization has made such a statement. If true then this is wonderful news, and as such I'll sleep better tonight.
Power to the people.
Then why are they blocking them in? This is alarming to me. The people have been peaceful, why block their path to get out if they will support the people?
Al Jazeera is saying that this could be the calm before the storm. The people are fearing that if there is any kind of clash it would be from the police, not the army.
I started getting really scared when I read they were being blocked in as well. Let's hope they truly are with the people. I mean the army is the people so I don't know why they wouldn't be moved to support them.
Sorry folks, but I don't understand where both of you are getting this idea that the "army is blocking them in"?
They have set up barriers on roads to block the demonstrators in and the army trucks surround the people in the square. This is what I heard on Al Jazeera today once I clicked on the link. The blockades are not stopping the demonstrators though but when they started setting them up I was getting very scared.
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
1351: The army is installing reinforced concrete barriers around Tahrir Square in central Cairo, a day before a mass demonstration called by the opposition to mark one week of anti-government protests. The 1m (3.3ft) high wall will restrict pedestrian access to the area, which has been a focus of the recent unrest
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: They have set up barriers on roads to block the demonstrators in and the army trucks surround the people in the square. This is what I heard on Al Jazeera today once I clicked on the link. The blockades are not stopping the demonstrators though but when they started setting them up I was getting very scared.
You mean every avenue into the square is blocked?
It could be either two things or both:
1) to keep protestors from destroying ****, or to keep legitimate protestors in and plainclothes police/convicts out so they don't destroy **** then blame protestors.
Sorry the photo can be found here, with the photo comment, its photos 8 and 9 but photo two just warms my heart. It feels so good to watch police go through a checkpoint manned by civilians. m*therf*chers!
Saturday, January 29th, 2011 | by Nonie Darwish Egypt; Between Dictatorships And Revolutions
Egypt’s rebellion has been lingering in the horizon for a very long time. The brutal life of the ordinary Egyptian was waiting for the right moment to explode. But instead of understanding what was surely coming, the 82-year-old Mubarak has wasted every opportunity to transfer power to another administration peacefully. He could have gone down in history as the first Arab leader to conduct a fair election and transfer power peacefully. But he kept ignoring the inevitable and, following the many sad examples in the region, kept re-electing himself for 30 years, grooming his son to take over. Now he will go down in history as just another tyrant in the long line of known and unknown ones in the dysfunctional history of the Muslim world.
Is this just a coincidence or is there something in Muslim culture that all too often perpetuates this vicious cycle? I believe the latter is true. Having been born and raised myself in the Muslim faith during the generation of the 1952 Nasser Egyptian revolution, which promised freedom, democracy, Arab Nationalism, socialism and self rule. My father held a prominent role in the Nasser revolutionary government of that time. A revolution that promised that the era of oppressive colonial rule was over. But what the revolution gave Egypt was more of the same and even worse conditions than the era before it; more poverty, illiteracy, tyrannical dictatorships and a police state.
Westerners often describe the current Egyptian government as secular when in reality it is not. It is true that Mubarak comes from a military background and neither he nor his wife wears Islamic clothes. But no Muslim leader can get away with or even survive one day in office if he is secular in the true sense of the word. It was during Mubarak’s rule in 1991 that Egypt signed the Cairo Declaration for Human Rights stating that Sharia Law supercedes any other law. So even though Sharia is not 100% applied in Egypt, it is officially the law of the land. Mubarak, like all Muslim leaders, must appease the Islamists to avoid their wrath. According to Sharia itself, a Muslim head of state must rule by Islamic law and preserve Islam in its original form or he must be removed from office. That law leaves no choice for any Muslim leader. Because of that law Muslim leaders must play a game of appearing Islamic and anti-West while trying to get along with the rest of the world. It’s a game with life and death consequences.
I am not optimistic that the current uprising in the Middle East will bring democracy. Many Egyptians believe they can combine democracy with Sharia Islamic law; that is the first unrealistic expectation. 60% of Egyptians want to live under Sharia law but do not understand the ramifications. Many chant “Allahu Akbar” and “Islam is the solution.” But the truth is, Islam or more accurately, Sharia, is the problem.
Perhaps the most dangerous law in Sharia that stands in the way of democracy is the one that states that “A Muslim head of State can hold office through seizure of power, meaning through force.” That law is the reason every Muslim leader must turn into a despotic tyrant to survive, literally. When a Muslim leader is removed from office by force, we often see the Islamic media and masses accept it and even cheer for the new leader who has just ousted or killed the former leader, who is often called a traitor to the Islamic cause. That was what happened to the Egyptian King Farouk in 1952. Sadat’s assassination followed many fatwas of death against him for having violated his Islamic obligations to make Israel an eternal enemy. He became an apostate in the eyes of the hard-liners and had to be killed or removed from office. This probably sounds incredible to the Western mind, but this is the reality of what Sharia has done and is still doing to the political chaos in the Muslim world.
The choice in Egypt is not between good and bad, it is between bad and worse. Many in the Muslim world lack the understanding of what is hindering them as well as a lack of a moral and legal foundation for forming a stable democratic political system. I fear that my brothers and sisters in Egypt will embrace extremism instead of true democracy and thus will continue to rise and fall, stumble from one revolution to another and living under one tyrant to another looking for the ideal Islamic state that never was. The 1400 year-old Islamic history of tyranny will continue unless Sharia Law is rejected as the basis of the legal and political systems in Muslim countries.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Saturday, January 29th, 2011 | by Nonie Darwish Egypt; Between Dictatorships And Revolutions
Egypt’s rebellion has been lingering in the horizon for a very long time. The brutal life of the ordinary Egyptian was waiting for the right moment to explode. But instead of understanding what was surely coming, the 82-year-old Mubarak has wasted every opportunity to transfer power to another administration peacefully. He could have gone down in history as the first Arab leader to conduct a fair election and transfer power peacefully. But he kept ignoring the inevitable and, following the many sad examples in the region, kept re-electing himself for 30 years, grooming his son to take over. Now he will go down in history as just another tyrant in the long line of known and unknown ones in the dysfunctional history of the Muslim world.
Is this just a coincidence or is there something in Muslim culture that all too often perpetuates this vicious cycle? I believe the latter is true. Having been born and raised myself in the Muslim faith during the generation of the 1952 Nasser Egyptian revolution, which promised freedom, democracy, Arab Nationalism, socialism and self rule. My father held a prominent role in the Nasser revolutionary government of that time. A revolution that promised that the era of oppressive colonial rule was over. But what the revolution gave Egypt was more of the same and even worse conditions than the era before it; more poverty, illiteracy, tyrannical dictatorships and a police state.
Westerners often describe the current Egyptian government as secular when in reality it is not. It is true that Mubarak comes from a military background and neither he nor his wife wears Islamic clothes. But no Muslim leader can get away with or even survive one day in office if he is secular in the true sense of the word. It was during Mubarak’s rule in 1991 that Egypt signed the Cairo Declaration for Human Rights stating that Sharia Law supercedes any other law. So even though Sharia is not 100% applied in Egypt, it is officially the law of the land. Mubarak, like all Muslim leaders, must appease the Islamists to avoid their wrath. According to Sharia itself, a Muslim head of state must rule by Islamic law and preserve Islam in its original form or he must be removed from office. That law leaves no choice for any Muslim leader. Because of that law Muslim leaders must play a game of appearing Islamic and anti-West while trying to get along with the rest of the world. It’s a game with life and death consequences.
I am not optimistic that the current uprising in the Middle East will bring democracy. Many Egyptians believe they can combine democracy with Sharia Islamic law; that is the first unrealistic expectation. 60% of Egyptians want to live under Sharia law but do not understand the ramifications. Many chant “Allahu Akbar” and “Islam is the solution.” But the truth is, Islam or more accurately, Sharia, is the problem.
Perhaps the most dangerous law in Sharia that stands in the way of democracy is the one that states that “A Muslim head of State can hold office through seizure of power, meaning through force.” That law is the reason every Muslim leader must turn into a despotic tyrant to survive, literally. When a Muslim leader is removed from office by force, we often see the Islamic media and masses accept it and even cheer for the new leader who has just ousted or killed the former leader, who is often called a traitor to the Islamic cause. That was what happened to the Egyptian King Farouk in 1952. Sadat’s assassination followed many fatwas of death against him for having violated his Islamic obligations to make Israel an eternal enemy. He became an apostate in the eyes of the hard-liners and had to be killed or removed from office. This probably sounds incredible to the Western mind, but this is the reality of what Sharia has done and is still doing to the political chaos in the Muslim world.
The choice in Egypt is not between good and bad, it is between bad and worse. Many in the Muslim world lack the understanding of what is hindering them as well as a lack of a moral and legal foundation for forming a stable democratic political system. I fear that my brothers and sisters in Egypt will embrace extremism instead of true democracy and thus will continue to rise and fall, stumble from one revolution to another and living under one tyrant to another looking for the ideal Islamic state that never was. The 1400 year-old Islamic history of tyranny will continue unless Sharia Law is rejected as the basis of the legal and political systems in Muslim countries.
Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel, and .....
By Nonie Darwish
Just saying
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
Ladies feast your eyes on this "relationship porn", for all those ladies out there who have lived in matronmony with an Egyptian dude he won't pick up after himself (for khawagas and Masryans alike:
1:53 P.M. |More Reports of Protesters Cleaning Up After Themselves.As protesters remained on Cairo's streets on Monday, and Egyptian state television focused on reports of looting and vandalism, in an apparent effort to cast the demonstrators as violent anarchists, several Egyptian bloggers have been attempting to counteract that impression by pointing proudly to examples of government opponents maintaining order and even bringing along brooms to clean up after themselves.
This video report from Egypt's Daily News, an English-language newspaper, shows volunteers cleaning a street in central Cairo on Monday:
Yup, you know it, it feels good to watch.
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Chef Mick: i just talked to cheeky ferret...she is doing ok ..she is safe , and mama ferret is with her...the only problem is she cant use ATM machines, she said there isnt any money in them and the banks are closed still.she wanted me to tell all her friends HI and she is ok
Next time you speak to Cheeky please tell Exiled said:
Shwitter Right. And tell her I said to be safe.
sure will Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Ladies feast your eyes on this "relationship porn", for all those ladies out there who have lived in matronmony with an Egyptian dude he won't pick up after himself (for khawagas and Masryans alike:
1:53 P.M. |More Reports of Protesters Cleaning Up After Themselves.As protesters remained on Cairo's streets on Monday, and Egyptian state television focused on reports of looting and vandalism, in an apparent effort to cast the demonstrators as violent anarchists, several Egyptian bloggers have been attempting to counteract that impression by pointing proudly to examples of government opponents maintaining order and even bringing along brooms to clean up after themselves.
This video report from Egypt's Daily News, an English-language newspaper, shows volunteers cleaning a street in central Cairo on Monday:
rofl I saw that and chuckled to myself. My husband is actually quite the neatnick now so they can indeed change if they have to. lol
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
This has been posted and tweeted before probably but for those in Egypt who have Bluetooth on their mobiles and laptops but no international landline can still dial out
Also on al j: Internet access across Egypt is still shoddy according to most reports. Khadija Sharife wrote in the Huffington Post that Egyptians can still connect "via traditional phone lines using the following instructions: FDN (Free World Dial up) to access the Internet anonymously at the following number: 33172890150 with login: toto and password: toto."
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Iraqis watch Egypt unrest with sense of irony
Many watched footage of riots and looting on the streets of Egypt, the region's traditional powerhouse, with a sense of irony. The scenes brought back disturbing memories of similar mayhem in Iraq, but also admiration for an uprising that came from the streets rather than in the wake of a foreign invasion.
"I wish similar demonstrations would take place in Iraq against the government," said Najat Shaiyal, the 31-year-old owner of a tea stand in central Baghdad.
A few dozen activists gathered Sunday at a central square in Baghdad to show solidarity with Egyptians calling for President Hosni Mubarak's departure. They chanted "Mubarak go out, the plane is waiting for you." web page Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
he says all the inages that we are seeing on cnn are all fake. here is the real images of the protest..
Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dilemma: I'll post again when I've arrived home Yes the US will get us out only to "safe havens" Europe, Greece,etc. then we have to make plans to get home - we have to pay. I'm upset how they are burning Cairo down, women are getting raped, businesses are pulling out of Egypt, citizens have to protect their belongings, tourism is shot, the people that paycheck to paycheck don't know how they will eat because they can't go to work
I'm upset about it too. Also sucks that you have to pay your own way home from Europe.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
micky call cf and see if she needs money hun... tell her i can send her 50$ for food since the atm's are down
Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: micky call cf and see if she needs money hun... tell her i can send her 50$ for food since the atm's are down
How are you going to send it? Banks are not allowing transfers and Western Union not working.
Posted by mysticheart (Member # 6838) on :
i would imagine that all money transfers are down too tina, there isnt any way to send them money right now as there is no place to recieve it
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Actor Khaled Abol Naga in a live inverview from Cairo on BBC
I always knew Khaled is damn hot!!!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Very anxious to find out the result or developments of the dialogue between Omar Sulayman (on behalf of HM) and the opposition.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Plan To Replace Hosni Mubarak May Be In The Works by Tom Gjelten
Hosni Mubarak abdicating the presidency is without question. The stage of the revolution now is who and how he will be replaced. The people want to appoint their own leader, and the opposition with ElBaradei is a temporary fix. This is the best case scenario at this point, but it might not be so easy.
The military might step in and either recognize Omar Sulayman as new president on a pretense that it will be temporary. Or another military man might be appointed that does not have ties to the NDP, with the same pretense that it will solely be on a temporary basis, until parliamentary/presidential elections.
The street will have a say as they are defintely leverage for the opposition representing them. I just hope any leader on a transition basis is not a military, and this is in line with the people's wishes.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Protestors are planning to walk today from Tahrir to the presidential palace in Heliopolis.
to overtake the Presidential Palace. That would be a beautiful sight. Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Na, don't think that's gonna happen.
Wonder which countries already offered Mubarak exile. My biggest bet is Saudi Arabia - it will turn into a safe haven for fallen dictators.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
well shoot if the western union is down the whole country is down..how are people gettin money and food?
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: micky call cf and see if she needs money hun... tell her i can send her 50$ for food since the atm's are down
Tina you have a heart of gold!!
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
by Patrick J. Buchanan:
Today, the lead party in determining Egypt’s future is the army. Cheered in the streets of Cairo, respected by the people, that army is not going to fire on peaceful demonstrators to keep in power a regime with one foot already in the grave. Only if fired on by provocateurs is the army likely to clear Tahrir Square the way the Chinese army cleared Tiananmen Square. But the army does have an immense stake in who rules, and that stake would not be well served by one-man, one-vote democracy. Like the Turkish army, the Egyptian army sees itself as guardian of the nation. From the Egyptian military have come all four of the leaders who have ruled since the 1952 colonel’s revolt that ousted King Farouk: Gens. Naguib, Sadat, and Mubarak, and Col. Nasser. The military has also been for 30 years the recipient of $1.2 billion dollars a year from the United States. Its weapons come from America. Moreover, the army has a vital interest in the “cold peace” with Israel that has kept it out of war since 1973, produced the return of Sinai, and maintained Egypt’s role as the leader of the moderate Arabs and major ally of the United States. The Egyptian army is also aware of what happened to the Iranian generals when the shah fell, and what is happening to the Turkish army as the Islamicizing regime of Prime Minister Erdogan strips that army of its role as arbiter of whether a Turkish regime stays or goes. The Egyptian army will not yield its position readily, which is why it may tilt to the ex-generals Mubarak named Friday as vice president and prime minister. The army’s rival is the Muslim Brotherhood. The oldest Islamic movement in the Middle East, the most unified opponent of the regime, its future in a democratic Egypt, as part of a ruling coalition or major opposition party, seems assured. And while the crowds in Cairo and Alexandria are united in what they wish to be rid of, the Muslim Brotherhood is united in knowing the kind of state and nation it wishes to establish.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mimmi:
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: micky call cf and see if she needs money hun... tell her i can send her 50$ for food since the atm's are down
Tina you have a heart of gold!!
thanks and if it was me i would sure hope my friends would do the same....we are all human and i cant imagine being in a country that has shut down with no means of gettin anything.. and it wasnt my country.. terrifying.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Opposition parties are obviously scared if it's true that they want “mubrak to transfer powers to vice president sulayman” The people want the NDP in it's entirety to resign.
I don't understand this concession if true.
The people has the NDP “by the balls”, why make this concession.
Maybe the threat of serious force by the Military is being used in back room negotiations. Want to see how the people respond to these reports that are on Al-Jazeera.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Could it be a step, part of a government that will include opposition figures in the government on a transitional basis. This has the USA fingerprint all over it.
Hosni Mubarak>Omar Sulayman>Free Elections>If Secular government Is Elected>A Okay
Would be better if it were:
Hosni Mubarak>Opposition Coalition>Free Elections>Democratically Elected government
The Egyptian military will not allow any party with a radical ideology to outright run and control the country. Egypt will be closer to Turkey than to Iran.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Overtake it! And then sanatize it from the filth that has resided in it for the past 30 years.
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: well shoot if the western union is down the whole country is down..how are people gettin money and food?
they have enough food for now...hopefully this will be over before they run out, and all banks ATMS and western unions are all closed she said...i asked Ayisha if she wanted me to send a care package of food over, she said it wouldnt get there anyway...Tina all we can do right now is pray that this will be over soon and Maborek will be out by the weekend xx Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Al Jazeera Arabic signal dropped from Nilesat. turn to following frequencies: Hotbird 12111 vertical or Arabsat 12034 horizontal.
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: well shoot if the western union is down the whole country is down..how are people gettin money and food?
they have enough food for now...hopefully this will be over before they run out, and all banks ATMS and western unions are all closed she said...i asked Ayisha if she wanted me to send a care package of food over, she said it wouldnt get there anyway...Tina all we can do right now is pray that this will be over soon and Maborek will be out by the weekend xx
thanks micky.i know they are strong women so i dont doubt they will stay safe...
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
aw, bless...he probably sums up a lot of people's feelings.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Confirmed: Opposition will not negotiate with Sulayman, or Regime for that matter. Confirmed: Opposition will not have a dialogue with Regime.
The opposition are heeding the voice of the people. The regime in its entirety must abdicate.
Amazing.
More than 1 million Egyptian pro-democracy protestors in tahrir. They have loud speakers, they have big screen TV, they have mics. They are getting it on.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Al Jazeera English Blacked Out (on TV) Across Most Of U.S.
American viewers, meanwhile, have little choice but to wait until one of the U.S. cable-company-approved networks broadcasts footage from AJE, which the company makes publicly available. What they can't do is watch the network directly.
Other than in a handful of pockets across the U.S. - including Ohio, Vermont and Washington, D.C. - cable carriers do not give viewers the choice of watching Al Jazeera. That corporate censorship comes as American diplomats harshly criticize the Egyptian government for blocking Internet communication inside the country and as Egypt attempts to block Al Jazeera from broadcasting.
The result of the Al Jazeera English blackout in the United States has been a surge in traffic to the media outlet's website, where footage can be seen streaming live. The last 24 hours have seen a two-and-a-half thousand percent increase in web traffic, Tony Burman, head of North American strategies for Al Jazeera English, told HuffPost. Sixty percent of that traffic, he said, has come from the United States.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
The Demands of the People via the Opposition Front
- Mubarak Step Down
- Re-Write Constitution
- Re-Election of Political Parties
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
“it's like a festival feel down here”
“we have all kinds of people, we got handicap people, we got religious people, we got all kinds of people here”
“it's such a peaceful atmosphere down here”
"people making sun-visors out of newspapers and handing them out, there are people going around with garbage bags collect empty bottls"
Al-Jazeera english correspondent in Tahrir
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Jordan's King Abdullah dismisses government, appoints new prime minister - Reuters 4 minutes ago
AMMAN, Feb. 1 (Xinhua) -- Jordanian Prime Minister Samir Rifai resigned on Tuesday following weeks of protests by Jordanians calling on the government to step down.
King Abdullah II of Jordan tasked Marouf Bakhit to form the new government, state-run petra news agency reported. Bakhit, a former prime minister, served also as Jordan's ambassador in Israel.
This is the man Hosni Mubrak wants to replace him?! This is a violent military man that has his own prisons according to TIME magazine, prisons that even Egyptian military officers quivered from.
This is a man who ran CIA Rendition and is directly responsible for brutal torture of Egyptians.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Hi everyone, not sure who will remember me as i havent been on for 2 years now but with everything happening i need more info than facebook. Who is out there, i have seen nic/cheekyferretts FB profile so i know she is safe but stuck, but nothing from Ria sorry cant remember her screen name. What about alison and remon are they ok. Does anyone know anything. If anyone gets back to England but has nowhere to go i have a hotel and will offer free rooms to people until they get sorted
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: I don't think there are 2 million...but Mr PC is one of them.......
I believe it. They are not simply saying there are 2 million in medan tahrir. They are saying there are 2 million in tahrir and the streets and bridges leading to tahrir, and also Ramses and other downtown areas surrounding tahrir.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: I don't think there are 2 million...but Mr PC is one of them.......
Be proud of him PC. I will add him to my prayers. Be strong and hold good thoughts. Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss: Hi everyone, not sure who will remember me as i havent been on for 2 years now but with everything happening i need more info than facebook. Who is out there, i have seen nic/cheekyferretts FB profile so i know she is safe but stuck, but nothing from Ria sorry cant remember her screen name. What about alison and remon are they ok. Does anyone know anything. If anyone gets back to England but has nowhere to go i have a hotel and will offer free rooms to people until they get sorted
I remember you, glad that you could join us, welcome.
Does anyone have any news about Ayman? Sorry, I also don't remember his screen name and that is why I have hesitated to ask.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss: Hi everyone, not sure who will remember me as i havent been on for 2 years now but with everything happening i need more info than facebook. Who is out there, i have seen nic/cheekyferretts FB profile so i know she is safe but stuck, but nothing from Ria sorry cant remember her screen name. What about alison and remon are they ok. Does anyone know anything. If anyone gets back to England but has nowhere to go i have a hotel and will offer free rooms to people until they get sorted
welcome back... ria/weirdkitty (and baby+husband) are ok ...read through this thread for more info. her mom is posting here under toots (or something similar).
alison/remon...i don't know who that is...if that's yorkie or yorshire rose (try searching for her nickname & her old posts)...I think they moved back to UK a while back.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Hi, sorry i dont remember Ayman. I hesitated over asking cos i didnt want to say names but i figured in times like this people wouldnt mind
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Weird kitty thats it and yes Yorkie is alison, thanks. Last i heard from miss sharm,yorkie was out there with remon and baby.
I will search WK mum now. Thanks for the information
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
stuartdhughes Stuart Hughes BREAKING: US State Dept orders departure of all non-emergency US govt personnel and families from #egypt #jan25 http://twitter.com/#!/stuartdhughes
U.S. citizens who wish to depart #Egypt via USG-chartered transportation: call 1-202-501-4444 | email EgyptEmergencyUSC@state.gov. #Jan25 http://twitter.com/#!/StateDept
**********
US says 1200 citizens evacuated from Egypt on Monday
Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:01pm GMT
Print | Single Page[-] Text [+] WASHINGTON Jan 31 (Reuters) - The U.S. government has evacuated about 1,200 American citizens from Egypt on nine flights on Monday and at least six more flights are planned for Tuesday, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said. Crowley said two flights were due to leave Cairo soon, bringing the total number of flights carrying Americans to nine. He said 2,600 people had contacted the U.S. Embassy seeking help getting out of Egypt.
(Reporting by Deborah Charles, Editing by Sandra Maler)
El-Baradei called the Gaza blockade "a brand of shame on the forehead of every Arab, every Egyptian and every human being." - Mohamed Elbaradei
Does he have a security detail? If not he should. Seriously he is the leader of the opposition and could possibly be an interim president. He needs security.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: I don't think there are 2 million...but Mr PC is one of them.......
My thoughts and prayers are with him hon. ((hugs))
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Jordan -King Abdullah sacked government and told new PM to initiate “true political reform” Miss Lilly posted thread
Nations that might face uprisings sooner rather than later:
Algeria Morocco Syria
* A lot of Shwitter that Mubrak fled
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Some of the pro-democracy demonstrators are leaving Tahrir, and some staying behind. I hope the ones leaveing reach home safely and sleep well. They endured so much, with little food, but there is baraka there when you are getting food from your brothers and sisters under one just cause. Some have literally slept there for more than one day. There are some families that literally take shifts such as a father and son team, one spends the night in tahrir and the other home with the rest of the family and they alternate days.
Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
In the last 2 days we have raised over $1,500 for ESMA. Let's not forget about the animals of Egypt who need our support as well as the people. Foreigners leaving and leaving pets behind. ESMA in dire situation. Please share this link:
"it's very bad for my goverment, i haven't food .......... ..... ....i will die today"
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
miffmiss
Just to let you know that Ria/Weirdkitty, is fine. Although getting a little stir crazy, She's holed up in her flat in the outskirts of Cairo (nearer the poorer end) with hubby and baby Zain (brother-in-law family live in flat below). I keep her informed with what's going on via text. They have about 300le to keep going. I'm sure her inlaws will help out foodwise if the banks/atms don't open soon.
She says she's planning on returning to England on her scheduled flight on 17th Feb as long as the situation in Egypt doesn't get any worse. She doesn't relish the idea of trying to get to the airport, which is on the other side of Cairo to where she is, then hanging around the airport for days with a baby with all this uncertainty going on.
If and when the British Embassy re-opens Ria's husband will collect his passport and visa. Originally he planned to come to England at the beginning of April when he had sorted things out in Egypt. However, depending on how long the unrest last for, he now plans to stay to ensure his parents are safe.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Voices from Egypt
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
quote:Originally posted by tootse: miffmiss
Just to let you know that Ria/Weirdkitty, is fine. Although getting a little stir crazy, She's holed up in her flat in the outskirts of Cairo (nearer the poorer end) with hubby and baby Zain (brother-in-law family live in flat below). I keep her informed with what's going on via text. They have about 300le to keep going. I'm sure her inlaws will help out foodwise if the banks/atms don't open soon.
She says she's planning on returning to England on her scheduled flight on 17th Feb as long as the situation in Egypt doesn't get any worse. She doesn't relish the idea of trying to get to the airport, which is on the other side of Cairo to where she is, then hanging around the airport for days with a baby with all this uncertainty going on.
If and when the British Embassy re-opens Ria's husband will collect his passport and visa. Originally he planned to come to England at the beginning of April when he had sorted things out in Egypt. However, depending on how long the unrest last for, he now plans to stay to ensure his parents are safe.
Thank you so much for letting me know. I have been so worried but only thought of egyptsearch today. Tell her vicky and sophie send their love and i hope everything is ok. If i can help her or you in anyway then please just ask.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
350 are officially dead.
Ya Hosni 350 officially dead. How many are really dead? Ya Habib Adly how many did you kill on Friday January 28?, official reports for that day are 119 dead, including 18 children and 14 women.
Ya Hosni Ya 3ameel kam nadrib fee 350. 350 x 4 = 1400, 350 x 10 = 3500.
How many Egyptians are really dead? Where are the hundreds that are missing? Where are they!!
Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
quote:Originally posted by tootse: miffmiss
Just to let you know that Ria/Weirdkitty, is fine. Although getting a little stir crazy, She's holed up in her flat in the outskirts of Cairo (nearer the poorer end) with hubby and baby Zain (brother-in-law family live in flat below). I keep her informed with what's going on via text. They have about 300le to keep going. I'm sure her inlaws will help out foodwise if the banks/atms don't open soon.
She says she's planning on returning to England on her scheduled flight on 17th Feb as long as the situation in Egypt doesn't get any worse. She doesn't relish the idea of trying to get to the airport, which is on the other side of Cairo to where she is, then hanging around the airport for days with a baby with all this uncertainty going on.
If and when the British Embassy re-opens Ria's husband will collect his passport and visa. Originally he planned to come to England at the beginning of April when he had sorted things out in Egypt. However, depending on how long the unrest last for, he now plans to stay to ensure his parents are safe.
Thanks for the update. I've spent time with Ria in Cairo during her previous visits and she is a tough girl. I'm sure she'll get on just fine.
Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss: Hi everyone, not sure who will remember me as i havent been on for 2 years now but with everything happening i need more info than facebook. Who is out there, i have seen nic/cheekyferretts FB profile so i know she is safe but stuck, but nothing from Ria sorry cant remember her screen name. What about alison and remon are they ok. Does anyone know anything. If anyone gets back to England but has nowhere to go i have a hotel and will offer free rooms to people until they get sorted
I remember you, glad that you could join us, welcome.
Does anyone have any news about Ayman? Sorry, I also don't remember his screen name and that is why I have hesitated to ask.
its Vanilla Bullshit
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
Mubarak will speak soon. Says he won't run for re-election. Is he deaf, dumb and blind or just really really stupid? I say throw him into the crowd and see what happens.
Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Mubarak will speak soon. Says he won't run for re-election. Is he deaf, dumb and blind or just really really stupid? I say throw him into the crowd and see what happens.
Weak. HM and Obama are a week too late. Egypt does not care what the USA thinks, even if they call Army.
HM and Obama don't get it.
Posted by marydot (Member # 15932) on :
I have Al Jazeera Live on TV, it has been announced that Hosni Mubarak will speak soon.
Al Jazeera has said Mubarak will try and find solutions.
I don't think he will stand down. Let see what he has to say when he speaks.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
NO!
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Waiting for the speech that hopefully ends the country's turmoil!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Egyptian Law
“constitutionally the only way to presidency is via vice presidency or parliament speaker”
Problem is all these 3 posts are NDP
And you thought US lawyers were wicked.
The soultion is REVOLUTION
Power to the people!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
The last quotes were that of Ayman Mohelydin. He deserves much respect.
Simply put how long are Egyptians willing to wait? FOREVER or until HM dies.
HM and Obama want to give them a bone. A small bone at that. Seriously how out of touch and how insulting is washington!
HM OUT! Sulayman OUT! Regime OUT!
It's at simple as that. Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
Did the US ask Saddam not to run for another election? Um....no. WTF. I'm so pissed off at our gov't right now. I've lost all hope.
Posted by marydot (Member # 15932) on :
Still waiting for the important statement...
I very much doubt if Mubarak will speak tonight, a statement will be read out by some spokespersons.
Protesters will continue on the streets all night.
Well thats my guess, because we have been waiting for this speech for a long time, probably Mubarak and his wife etc are long gone.
Rumors has it, there here in the UK!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Did the US ask Saddam not to run for another election? Um....no. WTF. I'm so pissed off at our gov't right now. I've lost all hope.
America is too corrupt and it explains its internal failure. America is hijacked by the Israeli lobby, which is costing it a lot externally and internally. One day the American public will wake up, and understand that America does come first, until then, it's this foreign policy BS.
Maybe not in our lifetime, but hopefully one day, will say enough to Israeli manipulation and corruption.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
He's speaking now. Blaming the looting on his opposition. Effin liar. More bullshit after more bullshit. Says opposition has rejected all dialogue. omg you just can't make this crap up. I'm turning it off and taking a nap.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
speechless
Posted by marydot (Member # 15932) on :
Mubarak has 3 months left in term.. clever speech.
This has resolved nothing.
There will be more violence and anger in the coming days.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
ishha3ab yareed isqaat ira-eees
The people want the fall of the president!
That's the people response!
Defiant!
Power to the people Posted by marydot (Member # 15932) on :
Egypt is now out of control and i hope there are no more casualties. Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
"incredible growth rate past 30 years but didn't trickle down to the poor"
It went to the NDP to the pashas and maybe 10% to the rest of the country. Now he wants a graceful exit?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
HM is officially a dead suck. The people should go for theirs. HM however and in his dictatorial style spooked some Egyptians with his “I will die on the soil in Egypt” Evil Truly a twisted military man.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Great speech of Mubarak, it brought tears to my eyes.
And he is much wiser than anyone down there on Tahrir Square: You can't rush into democracy overnight, it won't happen. Don't let the country sink into a real chaos because of too hasty made decisions.
People need to show patience and should accept the fact that he will be gone before long but then a new more proper government will take over this wonderful country of Egypt.
A new and very exciting chapter for the Egyptians has started; I am very happy for them.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Great speech of Mubarak, it brought tears to my eyes.
And he is much wiser than anyone down there on Tahrir Square: You can't rush into democracy overnight, it won't happen. Don't let the country sink into a real chaos because of too hasty made decisions.
People need to show patience and should accept the fact that he will be gone before long but then a new more proper government will take over this wonderful country of Egypt.
A new and very exciting chapter for the Egyptians has started; I am very happy for them.
You support a murderer. At least you are honest about it. That's cool.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Very bad analysis, Tigerlily. First mistake: "You can't rush into democracy". Better: "You can't preserve dictatorship indefinitely". Are they going to keep the country closed down until September? Did Saddam Hussein get to stay in power till his next term? This is just nonsense. You can rush democracy as quickly as you can rush freedom,tThat is, as quickly as you can form a will and effect it. The people has formed its will long ago. Now it has declared it in a popular assembly with the voice of a lion. To effect it simply requires the old gamoosa to go.
If he stays on, or is allowed to stay on, the people will delude themselves if they think they can bring him back to the brink like this again. The people now have have the power, so long as they remain united. To unite a people like this is notoriously difficult. Now they can speak, and they have spoken. Who is Mubarak in the presence of a united people? He is nothing. His only legitimate authority is as a deputy of the people's will, but the people has revoked this deputy. No matter what he has done, and no matter how good a man he may be, nature endows a united people with legitimate sovereignty over itself, and its will is clear. This talk of time is nonsense. He can leave as long as it takes him to pack his bags and get to the door. How long did Sadat take to leave, or Nasser?
Why is it so hard to step down. Clearly he no longer has a mandate. If he believes in democracy he will step down. If he doesn't, he must be expelled.
If he's allowed to stay on, the people will be weakened. The whole Arab world will be sent the message that despite 350 deaths and a huge upheaval of the people, still all they can achieve is a set of empty promises. Sure, he can stand down at the next election, but who is to say what he can do in the meantime to hand over to a crony, or to make a small constitutional concession. Are the people going to come out all over again like this? Will another 350 have to die? No. The people is sovereign. The man must go. Egyptians will not accept this speech.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Enough time in the service of his people! He is joking right???????
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Great speech of Mubarak, it brought tears to my eyes.
And he is much wiser than anyone down there on Tahrir Square: You can't rush into democracy overnight, it won't happen. Don't let the country sink into a real chaos because of too hasty made decisions.
People need to show patience and should accept the fact that he will be gone before long but then a new more proper government will take over this wonderful country of Egypt.
A new and very exciting chapter for the Egyptians has started; I am very happy for them.
You support a murderer. At least you are honest about it. That's cool.
Well since you called my husband numerous times a murderer too in the past right here on this forum - when infact he wasn't/isn't - I guess your opinions don't mean crap to me.
You can insult Mubarak as much as you want since this is your right for freedom of speech but at the same time you should show tolerance to other people's opinions.
You would not be affected by the fatal things which would happen if Mubarak would be kicked out right now and the whole government dissolved. But the little man on the street in Egypt will be - unfortunately many of them are right now unaware of possible repercussions.
So give it time to make things right for Egypt and its people.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chef Mick:
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss: Hi everyone, not sure who will remember me as i havent been on for 2 years now but with everything happening i need more info than facebook. Who is out there, i have seen nic/cheekyferretts FB profile so i know she is safe but stuck, but nothing from Ria sorry cant remember her screen name. What about alison and remon are they ok. Does anyone know anything. If anyone gets back to England but has nowhere to go i have a hotel and will offer free rooms to people until they get sorted
I remember you, glad that you could join us, welcome.
Does anyone have any news about Ayman? Sorry, I also don't remember his screen name and that is why I have hesitated to ask.
its Vanilla Bullshit
Nope its miffmiss. Search my posts, i think i was last here in 2008. Are you micky
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Tiger Lilly,
If Hosni Mubarak was a leader of western nation, and was ultimately responsible for torture including sodomizing male detainees, some of which we saw on youtube. And not to name murders such as Khaled Said, what would be his fate?
This man is a criminal who empowered the ministry of interior under habib adly to use torture on ORDINARY EGYPTIAN CITIZENS who LIVED IN EGYPT for simple things such as theft. Such interrogations sometimes resulted in them being hung NAKED and BEATEN to DEATH. Cigarette buds on their bodies while they hung.
This is just an example of the Mubarak Regime because if you want the full dose then we would have to pull UN files. Yes many of these human right violations are documented, and again, this is on ordinary citizens.
It is understable why some nations side with such brutal regimes. But why citizens of those governments side with a brutal dictators is beyond me.
You do not really love Egypt or Egyptians for that matter. If you did you would cry at the brutality, sodomy, indignity, torture that this man and his thugs inflicted on his people.
You love Egypt for your sake.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Great speech of Mubarak, it brought tears to my eyes.
And he is much wiser than anyone down there on Tahrir Square: You can't rush into democracy overnight, it won't happen. Don't let the country sink into a real chaos because of too hasty made decisions.
People need to show patience and should accept the fact that he will be gone before long but then a new more proper government will take over this wonderful country of Egypt.
A new and very exciting chapter for the Egyptians has started; I am very happy for them.
All he had was a good speach writer and PR...... He has skin like a rhinocerous........he wants to die in Egypt.......I say no more
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Great speech of Mubarak, it brought tears to my eyes.
And he is much wiser than anyone down there on Tahrir Square: You can't rush into democracy overnight, it won't happen. Don't let the country sink into a real chaos because of too hasty made decisions.
People need to show patience and should accept the fact that he will be gone before long but then a new more proper government will take over this wonderful country of Egypt.
A new and very exciting chapter for the Egyptians has started; I am very happy for them.
lily, I think that Mubarak wants to do is to take the wind out of the peoples revolution. I just don't believe that if they accept his proposition that he will step down in three months and they may not have the energy or he will be better prepared to smash the protest before it gets to this level.
IMHO The people should continue their protest until their demands are met. They have all of the power now, don't give it back to him, they have come too far. If he wasn't scared he would not be backing down. He needs to leave.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
If he's not murdered in the next week I'll be shocked.
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: 350 are officially dead.
Ya Hosni 350 officially dead. How many are really dead? Ya Habib Adly how many did you kill on Friday January 28?, official reports for that day are 119 dead, including 18 children and 14 women.
Ya Hosni Ya 3ameel kam nadrib fee 350. 350 x 4 = 1400, 350 x 10 = 3500.
How many Egyptians are really dead? Where are the hundreds that are missing? Where are they!!
Posted by aceflame (Member # 18558) on :
Born and breed American here. Never been to Egypt. Always wanted to go. See the pyramids and what-not. I see what's going on in Egypt now and i think it's an awesome display of freedom. The Egyptian people should know that regardless of what the politics and politicians will try to force in the future, many everyday Americans(like myself)are on the side of the people first and foremost. Any freedoms you gain will be a victory for freedom everywhere...You have an opportunity to influence the freedom of all oppressed people. Even those here in America. Freedom rox. Never cease in your search for it. Not only in your own country but for everywhere in the world....Come get some!
Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
quote:Originally posted by aceflame: Born and breed American here. Never been to Egypt. Always wanted to go. See the pyramids and what-not. I see what's going on in Egypt now and i think it's an awesome display of freedom. The Egyptian people should know that regardless of what the politics and politicians will try to force in the future, many everyday Americans(like myself)are on the side of the people first and foremost. Any freedoms you gain will be a victory for freedom everywhere...You have an opportunity to influence the freedom of all oppressed people. Even those here in America. Freedom rox. Never cease in your search for it. Not only in your own country but for everywhere in the world....Come get some!
Thank you. Native American here (born in Westchester actually) lived in Egypt for nearly 3 years. I'm sure the Egyptian people will appreciate your words. Thank you for posting.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Just got back. It's bedlam. No one knows what's happening. The state are trying to block Al Jazeerah and BBC World Service, whilst using Egyptian TV companies to make fake stories. One interviewer was standing on a street where you could hear a pin drop, saying everything was fine, everyone loves Mubarak, all the protesters are thieves, yadda, yadda. Completely staged as we knew someone who was overlooking the street he was supposedly broadcasting from and it was far from empty.
I tried to access my FB account while I was over there, but couldn't. Then the internet was cut. Then when I got back I have a message from FB saying they believed there was unauthorised use from somewhere in the US. Me, I might sound paranoid but I've never seen that before.
My fella had a text last night, purporting to be from the Army, calling all honest Egyptian men to stay at home and take care of their families because the thieves will no longer be tollerated. Clearly scare tactics from the 'government' (whatever that is) to persuade the million not to go to Tehrir Square today, or else if something happens to their loved ones they have only themselves to blame.
I was told that in most of Egypt every police station has been torched. Then there were gangs of armed thieves. Then the civvies were turning vigilante and rounding up the thieves, only to find police id on them. The thieves were carrying semi-automatic weapons. So what say the police took all their guns, then torched the stations? And what are the odds of all these individual stations having the same idea at the very same time? Then there's the small matter of someone accidentally leaving the keys out and 27,000 criminals escaping. Oopsie. Almost like it was accidentally on purpose.
Whilst they were still in operation they ran over protesters in police cars and were beating them while they were praying - it's all on tape.
I haven't been through the thread yet, or seen any real news in over a week, just the odd clip on BBC rerun over and over. Are you hearing here there's a big deal in North Sinai? We heard that the North Sinai Beduoin shot all the police and have set up their own road blocks? A rumour started up that they were coming down to South Sinai and all the guests were called back to their rooms. All the staff surrounded the hotels with knives and batons, but nothing came of it. Apparently North Sinai and South Sinai have separate Beduoin tribes and never the twain shall meet.
Sharm airport was jam packed today. Foreigners, Egyptians. My flight over was half full. My flight back was full capacity. Everyone wants to get out.
I didn't see anything. We were told to turn back one day because it was past curfew and some beduoin kids had tried it on at one of the shops. The tourist police never moved from South Sinai. A guy told us that they were arresting everyone but we were later told they took the kids to the beduoin elders for them to deal with - it wasn't a riot as rumour had it. It's the rumours that are the killer. You just don't know who or what to believe. If you can't trust a policeman (I mean, you get the odd duff one here, but come on) you're pretty much screwed.
The streets are deserted in South Sinai. The tourists have left early. The Egyptians have gone home to be with their families. It's like a ghost town. Eerie. What with the shootings in Luxor in 96, terrorist bombings, shark attacks, now this... Egypt has unbelievable potential. It should be great. Once upon a time it led the world, damn, why couldn't it do it again? This guy is just killing it for the sake of his stupid pride, still holding out to go out with his head held high. They don't just want him to go now, they want him held accountable for what he's done. They're losing millions everyday. What country can function with no internet for a week? For me it's a minor inconvenience (comparatively), but how can markets trade when you haven't even got the basics of internet and phone connection? How much money has spewed out of Egypt? How many investors have been scared away? How many workers can afford to take even one day off work, let alone day after day after day. They'll scrape by now but what about when pay day comes and they're faced with the reality of no food on the table? If people are mad now, imagine how it will be then? God I hope no one else sets fire to themselves. It's a sick and twisted world when people are driven to even think about this. And he did this to them. He told them all on Sunday they couldn't go to work. He's making it so they're all afraid to leave their homes - all for fear of they might gather together and tell him they don't love him anymore. How can he show his face in public again? From what I can see if he does stick around he's pretty much a marked man. I wouldn't even give him til the end of the month. I may be completely wrong, he may be a great leader, but I see a guy with issues.
He's like a kamakaze pilot and Egypt is the plane. Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
Not that it's any of my damned business, not being Egyptian, but it's sad, sad, sad.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: More and more reports are coming in that the Army will not fire at pro-democracy protestors. This time by Al-Jazeera's rival Al-Arabiya.
Egypt army says won't use violence against citizens #Jan25 #Jan28 #Egypt #Mubarak
Egypt army considers people's demands 'legitimate':
We've been hearing this from "insiders" but this is the first time that a major news organization has made such a statement. If true then this is wonderful news, and as such I'll sleep better tonight.
Power to the people.
Then why are they blocking them in? This is alarming to me. The people have been peaceful, why block their path to get out if they will support the people?
Al Jazeera is saying that this could be the calm before the storm. The people are fearing that if there is any kind of clash it would be from the police, not the army.
I started getting really scared when I read they were being blocked in as well. Let's hope they truly are with the people. I mean the army is the people so I don't know why they wouldn't be moved to support them.
They were checking that they didn't have weapons. They checked them then let them go in.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Just got back. It's bedlam. No one knows what's happening. The state are trying to block Al Jazeerah and BBC World Service, whilst using Egyptian TV companies to make fake stories. One interviewer was standing on a street where you could hear a pin drop, saying everything was fine, everyone loves Mubarak, all the protesters are thieves, yadda, yadda. Completely staged as we knew someone who was overlooking the street he was supposedly broadcasting from and it was far from empty.
I tried to access my FB account while I was over there, but couldn't. Then the internet was cut. Then when I got back I have a message from FB saying they believed there was unauthorised use from somewhere in the US. Me, I might sound paranoid but I've never seen that before.
My fella had a text last night, purporting to be from the Army, calling all honest Egyptian men to stay at home and take care of their families because the thieves will no longer be tollerated. Clearly scare tactics from the 'government' (whatever that is) to persuade the million not to go to Tehrir Square today, or else if something happens to their loved ones they have only themselves to blame.
I was told that in most of Egypt every police station has been torched. Then there were gangs of armed thieves. Then the civvies were turning vigilante and rounding up the thieves, only to find police id on them. The thieves were carrying semi-automatic weapons. So what say the police took all their guns, then torched the stations? And what are the odds of all these individual stations having the same idea at the very same time? Then there's the small matter of someone accidentally leaving the keys out and 27,000 criminals escaping. Oopsie. Almost like it was accidentally on purpose.
Whilst they were still in operation they ran over protesters in police cars and were beating them while they were praying - it's all on tape.
I haven't been through the thread yet, or seen any real news in over a week, just the odd clip on BBC rerun over and over. Are you hearing here there's a big deal in North Sinai? We heard that the North Sinai Beduoin shot all the police and have set up their own road blocks? A rumour started up that they were coming down to South Sinai and all the guests were called back to their rooms. All the staff surrounded the hotels with knives and batons, but nothing came of it. Apparently North Sinai and South Sinai have separate Beduoin tribes and never the twain shall meet.
Sharm airport was jam packed today. Foreigners, Egyptians. My flight over was half full. My flight back was full capacity. Everyone wants to get out.
I didn't see anything. We were told to turn back one day because it was past curfew and some beduoin kids had tried it on at one of the shops. The tourist police never moved from South Sinai. A guy told us that they were arresting everyone but we were later told they took the kids to the beduoin elders for them to deal with - it wasn't a riot as rumour had it. It's the rumours that are the killer. You just don't know who or what to believe. If you can't trust a policeman (I mean, you get the odd duff one here, but come on) you're pretty much screwed.
The streets are deserted in South Sinai. The tourists have left early. The Egyptians have gone home to be with their families. It's like a ghost town. Eerie. What with the shootings in Luxor in 96, terrorist bombings, shark attacks, now this... Egypt has unbelievable potential. It should be great. Once upon a time it led the world, damn, why couldn't it do it again? This guy is just killing it for the sake of his stupid pride, still holding out to go out with his head held high. They don't just want him to go now, they want him held accountable for what he's done. They're losing millions everyday. What country can function with no internet for a week? For me it's a minor inconvenience (comparatively), but how can markets trade when you haven't even got the basics of internet and phone connection? How much money has spewed out of Egypt? How many investors have been scared away? How many workers can afford to take even one day off work, let alone day after day after day. They'll scrape by now but what about when pay day comes and they're faced with the reality of no food on the table? If people are mad now, imagine how it will be then? God I hope no one else sets fire to themselves. It's a sick and twisted world when people are driven to even think about this. And he did this to them. He told them all on Sunday they couldn't go to work. He's making it so they're all afraid to leave their homes - all for fear of they might gather together and tell him they don't love him anymore. How can he show his face in public again? From what I can see if he does stick around he's pretty much a marked man. I wouldn't even give him til the end of the month. I may be completely wrong, he may be a great leader, but I see a guy with issues.
He's like a kamakaze pilot and Egypt is the plane. Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
Not that it's any of my damned business, not being Egyptian, but it's sad, sad, sad.
Thank you for your eyewitness report. And it is your business in one form or another, sharing with the world what you went through, and sharing with the world the corrupt tactics of the Egyptian government is benevolent. Glad you are safe.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Yemen President says he won't run for another term, nor pass presidency to his son.
Too little too late for these brutal dictators.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Thanks. I was ok though... I don't think there was any imminent danger, just the threat of it, or the threat of the threat of it. Like Chinese whispers with an echoe. Bit like the boogie man - you sit there quaking under your duvet but there's naff all there. I am a complete wuss though
I've been worried about the others all week and I'm glad to hear tell they're ok.
Does anyone know whether texts are going in and out of egypt? I'm thinking not. Or within egypt itself. Actual telephone calls seem to work ok. They were saying that soon there will be big problems as shops are getting looted, and as mobile phone use has gone up big time, they can't keep up with demand and are running out of cards. I was reading about a computer thingy (technical term) they have in shops to top up with but they're all getting nicked and there's no internet anyway? I dunno. Would be pretty bad though if you can't top up your phone at a time like this and make sure everyone's ok...
Or are they not letting the fresh stock get there? I'm turning cuckoo I know, but maybe anything goes when you're trying to bully 80 million people.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Syrian Opposition Groups Mobilize For Protest On Saturday
Opposition movements in Syria are attempting to mobilize for mass protests on Saturday against the rule of President Bashar Al-Assad, in the latest sign of how Egypt's violent revolt could be spreading through the region, according to the Middle East Media Research Institute, or MEMRI, a Washington-based organization that studies and translates news accounts and social-media postings.....
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Pro-Democracy protestors are gathering for a 9th day. They won't give up until HM steps down.
The WSJ: Hosni Mubarak ordered the Interior Minister to use Live Ammunition on Protestors. In a article titled - How Cairo, U.S. Were Blindsided by Revolution
“At 4 p.m., the battles appeared to tip decisively in the protesters' favor. An order came down from Mr. Mubarak to the Minister of Interior, Habib al-Adly to use live ammunition to put down the protests, according to a person familiar with the situation. Mr. al-Adly passed on the order to his top lieutenant, Gen. Ahmed Ramzy—but Mr. Ramzy refused, according to this person.”
note: The previous article is also a Middle East Wall Street Journal article, forgot link.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
My love and thoughts are with everyone out there and those with loved ones involved who can but sit and wait.
I agree that his speech was an effort to regroup himself so he has a stronger footing next time something like this happens. The people have the power right now. Don't let him take an inch because he will take a mile.
POWER TO THE PEOPLE
Xxx
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Monkey thank you for your eye witness account. It's good to hear from someone who was there. I am glad you got home safe. I believe mobile texts must be working to a point because weird kitty is getting messages to her mum
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss:
quote:Originally posted by Chef Mick:
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss: Hi everyone, not sure who will remember me as i havent been on for 2 years now but with everything happening i need more info than facebook. Who is out there, i have seen nic/cheekyferretts FB profile so i know she is safe but stuck, but nothing from Ria sorry cant remember her screen name. What about alison and remon are they ok. Does anyone know anything. If anyone gets back to England but has nowhere to go i have a hotel and will offer free rooms to people until they get sorted
I remember you, glad that you could join us, welcome.
Does anyone have any news about Ayman? Sorry, I also don't remember his screen name and that is why I have hesitated to ask.
its Vanilla Bullshit
Nope its miffmiss. Search my posts, i think i was last here in 2008. Are you micky
that would be me...i am your friend on FB...see ya there and will update ya about NIC Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
"I talk to you during critical times that are testing Egypt and its people which could sweep them into the unknown.
"The country is passing through difficult times and tough experiences which began with noble youths and citizens who practise their rights to peaceful demonstrations and protests, expressing their concerns and aspirations but they were quickly exploited by those who sought to spread chaos and violence, confrontation and to violate the constitutional legitimacy and to attack it.
"Those protests were transformed from a noble and civilised phenomenon of practising freedom of expression to unfortunate clashes, mobilised and controlled by political forces that wanted to escalate and worsen the situation.
"They targeted the nation's security and stability through acts of provocation theft and looting and setting fires and blocking roads and attacking vital installations and public and private properties and storming some diplomatic missions.
"We are living together painful days and the most painful thing is the fear that affected the huge majority of Eyptians and caused concern and anxiety over what tomorrow could bring them and their families and the future of their country.
"The events of the last few days require us all as a people and as a leadership to chose between chaos and stability and to set in front of us new circumstances and a new Egyptian reality which our people and armed forces must work with wisely and in the interest of Egypt and its citizens.
"Dear brothers and citizens, I took the initiative of forming a new government with new priorities and duties that respond to the demand of our youth and their mission.
"I entrusted the vice-president with the task of holding dialogue with all the political forces and factions about all the issues that have been raised concerning political and democratic reform and the constitutional and legislative amendments required to realise these legitimate demands and to restore law and order.
"But there are some political forces who have refused this call to dialogue, sticking to their particular agendas without concern for the current delicate circumstances of Egypt and its people.
"In light of this refusal to the call for dialogue and this is a call which remains standing, I direct my speech today directly to the people, its Muslims and Christians, old and young, peasants and workers, and all Egyptian men and women in the countryside and city over the whole country.
"I have never, ever been seeking power and the people know the difficult circumstances that I shouldered my responsibility and what I offered this country in war and peace, just as I am a man from the armed forces and it is not in my nature to betray the trust or give up my responsibilities and duties.
"My primary responsibility now is security and independence of the nation to ensure a peaceful transfer of power in circumstances that protect Egypt and the Egyptians and allow handing over responsibility to whoever the people choose in the coming presidential election.
"I say in all honesty and regardless of the current situation that I did not intend to nominate myself for a new presidential term. I have spent enough years of my life in the service of Egypt and its people.
"I am now absolutely determined to finish my work for the nation in a way that ensures handing over its safe-keeping and banner ... preserving its legitimacy and respecting the constitution.
"I will work in the remaining months of my term to take the steps to ensure a peaceful transfer of power.
"According to my constitutional powers, I call on parliament in both its houses to discuss amending Article 76 and 77 of the constitution concerning the conditions on running for presidency of the republic and it sets specific a period for the presidential term.
"In order for the current parliament in both houses to be able to discuss these constitutional amendments and the legislative amendments linked to it for laws that complement the constitution and to ensure the participation of all the political forces in these discussions, I demand parliament to adhere to the word of the judiciary and its verdicts concerning the latest cases which have been legally challenged.
"I will entrust the new government to perform in ways that will achieve the legitimate rights of the people and that its performance should express the people and their aspirations of political, social and economic reform and to allow job opportunities and combating poverty, realising social justice.
"In this context, I charge the police apparatus to carry out its duty in serving the people, protecting the citizens with integrity and honour with complete respect for their rights, freedom and dignity.
"I also demand the judicial and supervisory authorities to take immediately the necessary measures to continue pursuing outlaws and to investigate those who caused the security disarray and those who undertook acts of theft, looting and setting fires and terrorising citizens.
"This is my pledge to the people during the last remaining months of my current term.
"I ask God to help me to honour this pledge to complete my vocation to Egypt and its people in what satisfies God, the nation and its people.
"Dear citizens, Egypt will emerge from these current circumstances stronger, more confident and unified and stable. And our people will emerge with more awareness of how to achieve reconciliation and be more determined not to undermine its future and destiny.
"Hosni Mubarak who speaks to you today is proud of the long years he spent in the service of Egypt and its people. This dear nation is my country, it is the country of all Egyptians, here I have lived and fought for its sake and I defended its land, its sovereignty and interests and on this land I will die and history will judge me and others for our merits and faults.
"The nation remains. Visitors come and go but ancient Egypt will remain eternal, its banner and safekeeping will pass from one generation to the next. It is up to us to ensure this in pride and dignity."
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
Prayers for the Egyptian people.Keep strong and resist!!!!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Widespread reports that internet is back. Will find out soon if true.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
He has a great writer but i don't believe a word he says
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Internet is back on in Egypt. My company's Cairo network servers are back online but when I try some egyptian websites, they're still offline.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
My internet just came back - Yippee! Couldn't get on facebook but that might not be the internet, might be this 'puter. I've been told mobile phones are going out at 3pm for the duration of curfew (til 8am). Texts to and from Egyptian phones are not being delivered. Texts from international phones to international phones ARE being delivered. So far, landlines are holding up. My sister's been updating my fb wall for those of you on my friends. Will do a fuller account later.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
PS I'm on Etisalat internet. Jean bean called me, hers is on - Vodafone internet.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I'm back!! just gave it a try and I'm online! Rainbownet, TEData is online. No FB, not tried anything else yet.
I have a VERY clean flat, if this had not come back now I would have had to clean the dreaded spare room that's got over 2 years dust. Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Can't get the "watch live" broadcast on the website either.
Anyone else???
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Yaaaay! Welcome back to both of you. Mabruk!! Amazing how much we rely on it - I couldn't charge my fricking phone the whole time I was there and the darned thing is locked to Orange. Makes you wonder what we did before the internet...
Thanks for the info Shanta.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Can't get the "watch live" broadcast on the website either.
Anyone else???
Aren't they getting it through Hotbird?
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Glad to hear that you are all safe and well Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: I'm back!! just gave it a try and I'm online! Rainbownet, TEData is online. No FB, not tried anything else yet.
I have a VERY clean flat, if this had not come back now I would have had to clean the dreaded spare room that's got over 2 years dust.
Ha ha - me too Couldn't concentrate on anything at all - the Al Jazeera (I was watching Al Jazeera Enlgish) was like a hypnotic drug! I have heard they're refilling ATMs so a friend and her hub who live up the road from me nearer the Pyramids are hoping to come fetch me tomorrow and see if we can find a working ATM (my nearest one is in an 'On The Run' and 20 mins walk away).
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Welcome back to all who have been cut off the internet.
And yes, today there will be money again in the ATM machines!!!!!
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
PS btw my internet is a USB Modem so not sure if it will be blocked by the curfew. Watch this space LOL
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
"Yemen's President Ali Abdullah Saleh said Wednesday he will not seek re-election nor hand over power to his son once his current term ends in 2013. "No extension, no inheritance," he told parliament. Saleh had called an emergency parliamentary meeting, ahead of a "day of rage" protests scheduled for the following day.Saleh has been in office for 32 years and was last re-elected in 2006."
People watch closely what's happening in Yemen and Jordan. Which other countries will follow next? Algeria, Libya????
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
@Monkey, I was woken at 6am by a text from vodafone - in arabic so not sure what it meant It started Ya shebabs and I think it was what you say your fella got - a stay home and don't gather message. Didn't get it on Etisalat strangely!
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Sooooo glad you are back Ayisha!!!!! Cant wait to hear your updates and news from Luxor...
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: @Monkey, I was woken at 6am by a text from vodafone - in arabic so not sure what it meant It started Ya shebabs and I think it was what you say your fella got - a stay home and don't gather message. Didn't get it on Etisalat strangely!
Yup it was Vodafone alright and in Arabic. I read on the net loads of people had it. Do the army generally text? Bizarre.
This story about the beduoin killing all the police in Northern Sinai and taking over - is it bull? Because I can find no trace of it here. Everyone in Southern Sinai has heard this and is scared to use the road from Taba to Cairo. But I think they have occasional problems with bandits there at the best of times.
[EDIT: Light dawns on marble head. Another way of scaring folk off going to Cairo. God, I am so blonde sometimes.]
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Shanta glad to hear your ok. I have just spoken to cheeky ferret and she has a few questions i wondered if you could help me with.
What is the reaction to westerners on the streets. Is it safe for you to walk around.I passed on your news about internet,phones, ATMS etc and she said thanks.
Also what about if they people succeed. What will it mean for westerners in Cairo. Are they happy for you to be there.
Just to let everyone know. Cheeky ferret is with mamma and 4 others on the red sea. She is safe for now but funds are running low so they cant stay there much past the weekend. She is trying to get out of egypt but the british have only sent one plane so far for 1000s of people. She is safer where she is than in the airport right now anyway as they are not checking any bags or passports. Just cramming everyone in to sit and wait
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
so far all is well in some of this screwed up world. our friends in egypt are safe woo hoo..now lets focus on the egyptian people and whats in store for their new gov?is the person hm chosein a good leader?
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
According to TV the pro Mubarak protesters are out in Tahirir square and its looking nasty
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
When I looked on the FO website they were talking about charging £300 per ticket back to England. £75 for an emergency passport. Is this for real?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Well I think it's safe for foreigners, but I just got a call from someone (Brit) who talked about anti-foreigner feeling. Not sure how real it is, I certainly haven't felt any personally.
We both saw a demonstration here yesterday in our place - mothers and kids - but are of different interpretation as to what it was - pro or anti Mubarak. Didn't really read the placards.
So anyway, I think the thing is not to panic. I know there are some anti-American sentiments around but not sure the content. Luckily everyone thinks I'm German.
The folk round my way are very well organized and have given me emergency contact numbers. The guys have walkie-talkies and are doing regular patrols.
I did think that I would like to join the big demo at one point as it was very peaceful by big demo standards - but in my view, this had to be 1 million Egyptians, not assorted foreigners and hangers on. Apart from practical considerations such as how to get there and how to leave (I live about 30km away), I thought seeing obvious foreigners in the crowd would detract from it being an Egyptian movement and give 'evidence' to those claiming it was foreign inspired. Basically, keep heads down and do your bit where you can in the community. I am planning to sweep the stairs in my block today if the cleaner didn't turn up as 'my part'.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
There's 1 plane flying out to Cairo today with 200 seats and yes apparently they are charging £300 for the tickets. Through any crisis there is always money to be made Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Ha ha good girl.
Good advice i will pass it on to her. I knew you were the best one for advice as your calm and clear headed with a great knowledge of life there. From what i can tell there is a lot of scare mongering happening and the News reports arent helping.
I also agree on the sitting in. You would stand out like a sore thumb in the crowd and that wouldnt help but anyone who matters knows they have your support and the rest of the worlds
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: This story about the beduoin killing all the police in Northern Sinai and taking over - is it bull? Because I can find no trace of it here. Everyone in Southern Sinai has heard this and is scared to use the road from Taba to Cairo. But I think they have occasional problems with bandits there at the best of times.
[EDIT: Light dawns on marble head. Another way of scaring folk off going to Cairo. God, I am so blonde sometimes.] [/QB]
I googled it, and there's something being reported about by a Palestinian news agency on a Gaza skirmish with beduins trying to overtake smuggling territory. (Al Jazeera reported petrol normally smuggled from Egypt to Gaza was cut off during the protests)
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: According to TV the pro Mubarak protesters are out in Tahirir square and its looking nasty
it was on either BBCW or CNN, (the 2 I kept up with) this morning that the pro mubarak protestors were PAID 20LE each to do this protest. There are 300 at MOST. The original protestors are camping in Tahrir square and staying till he is gone.
MANY Egyptians are saying that Al Jazeera is lying, I assume that is the Arabic version, not sure.
Was watching Arabic channels with hubby last night, who got benzine/gas/petrol to get back from Hurghada yesterday, lots of petrol trucks arrived in Hurghada the night before. The Arab State channels are showing all the terror attacks that have happened in Egypt and how good old Mubarak has got them through it all and seem to be repeating the only holding thing he has had on this population for 30 years, that he wants to PROTECT and keep security.
Many Egyptians, including my husband, have been led to believe he keeps the country from war, he keeps peace here, now he and they are starting to see differently. There is no threat of war, there is no terrorism, the violent acts done here in the last week were a ruse (sp) and done and organized by the POLICE, not the protestors. We watched one channel they had speakers from the crowd, one had worked IN the govt. he confirmed how it all works. Now the people know he cannot be trusted in anything he says. Promises wont work, he's had 30 years, too little too late mate, get out!
Word is there was no break out of prisoners, it was arranged. All prisons all over the country all broke out at the same time? yeah right Mr Mubarak, course they did, and the ones caught plundering happened to have police ID? yeah right.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Oh Ayisha!!! Welcome back! We have been keeping a virtual vigil for y'all. So happy to see you girlfriend. Posted by Mimmi (Member # 3606) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: There's 1 plane flying out to Cairo today with 200 seats and yes apparently they are charging £300 for the tickets. Through any crisis there is always money to be made
There is a plane from Cairo to Helsinki today at 16:00 rate 400Euro person. It has 196 seats, about 100 Finns are coming and 12 Estonians and 5 norwegians
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: This story about the beduoin killing all the police in Northern Sinai and taking over - is it bull? Because I can find no trace of it here. Everyone in Southern Sinai has heard this and is scared to use the road from Taba to Cairo. But I think they have occasional problems with bandits there at the best of times.
[EDIT: Light dawns on marble head. Another way of scaring folk off going to Cairo. God, I am so blonde sometimes.]
I googled it, and there's something being reported about by a Palestinian news agency on a Gaza skirmish with beduins trying to overtake smuggling territory. (Al Jazeera reported petrol normally smuggled from Egypt to Gaza was cut off during the protests)
Oh ruddy norah. That sounds like some heavy stuff. That's way above Cairo though isn't it? Must have been me getting the wrong end of the stick about the location, but they definitely said the beduoin had gone into a station, shot all the officers, and basically taken over a big area setting up their own checkpoints. All I can see is that one beduoin was shot by a police officer up there.
Gawd knows. I bet we never hear the half of it.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Well I think it's safe for foreigners, but I just got a call from someone (Brit) who talked about anti-foreigner feeling. Not sure how real it is, I certainly haven't felt any personally.
We both saw a demonstration here yesterday in our place - mothers and kids - but are of different interpretation as to what it was - pro or anti Mubarak. Didn't really read the placards.
So anyway, I think the thing is not to panic. I know there are some anti-American sentiments around but not sure the content. Luckily everyone thinks I'm German.
The folk round my way are very well organized and have given me emergency contact numbers. The guys have walkie-talkies and are doing regular patrols.
I did think that I would like to join the big demo at one point as it was very peaceful by big demo standards - but in my view, this had to be 1 million Egyptians, not assorted foreigners and hangers on. Apart from practical considerations such as how to get there and how to leave (I live about 30km away), I thought seeing obvious foreigners in the crowd would detract from it being an Egyptian movement and give 'evidence' to those claiming it was foreign inspired. Basically, keep heads down and do your bit where you can in the community. I am planning to sweep the stairs in my block today if the cleaner didn't turn up as 'my part'.
There is no anti foreign feeling here in Luxor. In fact there is no HASSLE! The Egyptians young and old are being more than helpful here, there is a feel of togetherness more than anything. The tour companies of course went into panic mode and are flying tourists out except the ones refusing to leave as they are enjoying their holiday despite what is happening here. I heard there were no flights into Luxor, but my friend arrived 2 days ago from UK.
There are rumours all over about everything. Heard the new supermarket on TV street was trashed and gone, it's still there and still open. Heard Omar market had gone, it's there and open. Arkwrights has been closed since Friday. Banks are closed, ATMs are closed. The one tank I have seem outside HSBC is friendly but not allowing pictures to be taken The army are friendly, the police looking shamed, Alhamdulillah!!! Now people are asking for police ID at checkpoints instead of the other way round
There is no DANGER, this has been a peaceful protest apart from the arranged undercover attackers which all people now know were police, not excaped prisoners, not violent youths, a set up so Mr M can say "look what happens when you don't listen to me who protects you".
Edit, FB IS ON!!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Welcome back ladies. Pro-democracy protesters in Tahrir are growing and growing. Saw amazing footage from Alexandria (yesterday) shouting “Qalo 3anna Sha3ab Gaban” They said we're a cowardly people.
@pink cherry, the pro-Mubarak clowns are in Mohandeseen and not in Tahrir.
@Ayisha, I'm hearing that they are doing it for money as well. Sameh Fahmy the Oil Minister reportedly told oil employees to protest for the President of lose you jobs. This is the same tactic that state employees are subjected to during “Mubarak Referendums”. Please continue sharing what you're hearing, small and big.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Welcome back ladies. Pro-democracy protesters in Tahrir are growing and growing. Saw amazing footage from Alexandria (yesterday) shouting “Qalo 3anna Sha3ab Gaban” They said we're a cowardly people.
@pink cherry, the pro-Mubarak clowns are in Mohandeseen and not in Tahrir.
@Ayisha, I'm hearing that they are doing it for money as well. Sameh Fahmy the Oil Minister reportedly told oil employees to protest for the President of lose you jobs. This is the same tactic that state employees are subjected to during “Mubarak Referendums”. Please continue sharing what you're hearing, small and big.
Well....I have just watched BBC TV and it showed the army turning away the pro Mubarak people...and searching them....from the square....just 5 mins ago
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Welcome back ladies. Pro-democracy protesters in Tahrir are growing and growing. Saw amazing footage from Alexandria (yesterday) shouting “Qalo 3anna Sha3ab Gaban” They said we're a cowardly people.
@pink cherry, the pro-Mubarak clowns are in Mohandeseen and not in Tahrir.
@Ayisha, I'm hearing that they are doing it for money as well. Sameh Fahmy the Oil Minister reportedly told oil employees to protest for the President of lose you jobs. This is the same tactic that state employees are subjected to during “Mubarak Referendums”. Please continue sharing what you're hearing, small and big.
Well....I have just watched BBC TV and it showed the army turning away the pro Mubarak people...and searching them....from the square....just 5 mins ago
Interesting, maybe they're looking for confrontation. But I'm seeing A pro-Mubarak demonstration at Mostapha Mahmoud Square in Mohandesseen.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Pink Cherry was on point. AJE and AJ are reporting that pro-Mubarak are heading towards Medan Tahrir.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Egyptian state tv now showing protests at tahrir.
A staged clash waiting to happen?
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
The Financial Times Egypt can bring in the Brotherhood By Ed Husain February 1 2011
Egypt is ablaze. Hundreds of thousands protested in Cairo’s Tahrir Square on Tuesday, but for fear of an Islamist regime the US now risks being remembered as a democracy that abandons democrats. After generations in opposition, the Muslim Brotherhood now wants to play a part in Egypt’s future, giving a rare chance to strike a deal for their compromises and democratic involvement.
To this day we are paying the price for ignoring ordinary Iranians and siding with the Shah in 1979. Then, secular democrats triggered a revolution only to be brushed aside by fundamentalists. Today, ordinary Egyptians lead demonstrations but the Brotherhood waits in the background; an indispensable force in national life.
With a network running through trade unions, mosques, businesses and universities, the organisation is hugely influential. Opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei has already formed a loose alliance, and for sound reasons. Last September, of the million signatures petitioning for change under Mr ElBaradei’s leadership, the Brotherhood collected 800,000.
I know all too well the power the Brotherhood can wield, having spent my student days in London as a member of its global organisation. Disillusioned by their conspiracy theories, distance from spiritual Islam and implausible answers to world problems, I eventually left. And after the 2005 bombings of London’s Underground, I wrote a book exposing what I now saw as their bankrupt agenda. I have since spent three years warning Europeans of the destructive influence of Islamist ideologies.
To borrow a phrase from Mao, Islamists provide the sea in which jihadists swim. The Muslim Brotherhood, meanwhile, has often provided the mood music to which al-Qaeda’s suicide bombers dance. But it is possible to turn that music off. Despite their reputation, the Brotherhood in Egypt are open to being shaped by partners, critics and political reality. American Muslim organisations – such as the Islamic Society of North America – were once part of the Brotherhood’s global reach, but have since evolved to the benefits of Jeffersonian pluralism. The right approach can now help to push the Brotherhood in Egypt in the same direction.
America cannot ignore Egyptian Islamists in opposition today, or hope to confront them in government tomorrow. Such measures lead only to the collective punishment of entire peoples, as we see today in Gaza. Faith still dominates their politics, but the group can be persuaded to reject its confrontational mindset, supremacist tendencies and commitment to a mythological Islamic state.
Instead we must engage them, initially on the role of Islam itself. Islamists and western observers too often agree that sharia equates to state law, rather than a body of legal opinion. The Brotherhood repeats the absurd doctrine that “the Koran is our constitution”, but the vast majority of Muslims disagree, seeing the Koran as a divine, not political document. With discussion and political incentives the Brotherhood can be persuaded to follow the lead of mainstream opinion.
There are other encouraging signs. Mohammed Badie, the Brotherhood’s leader, comes from its conservative wing. But he recently scoffed at the notion of an Islamic state, saying his aim was to be part of a civilian administration. Another relative hardliner (and my former teacher) Kamal ElHelbawi, said this weekend: “Islamists would not be able to rule Egypt alone.” He argued for co-operation with secularists. Mr ElHelbawi has been a Brotherhood stalwart for half a century. If he and Mr Badie want to talk, we have cause for optimism.
To its credit, the Brotherhood also often calls for improved human rights. Pressing for them to clarify their views – on gender equality, rights for religious minorities and abandonment of killing, stoning and whipping as punishments – could become one condition for its intent to enter government in coalition. Perhaps the most important issue remains the Brotherhood’s stance on Israel. Israel remains a regional superpower, with little to fear from Egypt’s shabby military. Even Mr ElHelbawi, often an apologist for suicide bombers, does not dismiss existing agreements between Israel and Egypt. Even if a post-Mubarak Egypt turned belligerent, Israel could protect itself. Preventing an unlikely future conflict is no reason to suppress Egyptians’ democratic aspirations.
Pluralism, human rights and Israel must therefore be at the heart of talks with Egypt’s Islamists in the coming days. This will not be easy, and we must not mistake the Brotherhood for natural democrats in disguise. Nor are they representative of most Egyptians. In Bangladesh, Indonesia, and even Pakistan, Islamist parties do badly at the polls: voters tolerate their grandstanding but do not want to live under their rule. We must avoid the mistake we made with Iran, and seize this moment to support Egypt’s democrats and ensure that religious parties moderate. Without this, Egypt could all too easily go the way of Iran, or Gaza. With it, we can have confidence that Egyptians themselves can bring democracy into being, and over the long term, they will be their country’s greatest bulwark against Islamists.
* The writer is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and author of ‘The Islamist’
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
The markets are back open today. How much longer do they have til trading's done for the day? Do you think that's why the internet is back on?
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Pink Cherry was on point. AJE and AJ are reporting that pro-Mubarak are heading towards Medan Tahrir.
.... and he expects people to believe that he wants a peaceful transition.... What is wrong with this man?
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Can't help being worried that things are going to kick off Posted by Clear and QSY (Member # 15597) on :
Welcome back Egypt! We missed you.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
some humor from the Daily Mash (UK's spoof magazine)
THOUSANDS of panicked UK tourists in Egypt contacted the Foreign Office last night after it emerged their mojito had still not arrived.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Pink Cherry was on point. AJE and AJ are reporting that pro-Mubarak are heading towards Medan Tahrir.
.... and he expects people to believe that he wants a peaceful transition.... What is wrong with this man?
Hosni Mubrark is brutal who could care less about Egypt and thought he could pass his Presidency to Gamal, as if the Mubarak family owned Egypt.
This incitment strategy might fail or turn out very violent. It could turn violent because Mubarak supporters are likely to be armed. And I wouldn't be surprised if plain clothes police comprise many of his protesters.
This could also be a blessing in disguise. The pro-democracy protesters needed a little boost after last night massive letdown. They had their hopes that he was going to step down, and all they heard was “I am going to die in Egypt.”
So this can re-energize the masses.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Clashes have broken out between pro- and anti-govt demonstrators in Tahrir Square. Anti-govt are taking weapons into the square. AJ says that M protester are going around provoking confrontations.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
See that's the thing - Egypt is NOT ablaze!
Some of the reporting is a bit annoying. I was getting annoyed yesterday when they kept replaying scenes from friday of the water cannon and tear gas giving anyone the impression it had been like that for days.
I know I'm fortunate in living out in the sticks, and that things are a bit hairy in some areas - I heard about someone who's home in Maadi was machine-gunned - whether it was deliberate or 'caught in the cross-fire' who knows? Also was told that Carrefour Maadi was ramraided? True? NO idea don't live over that way and haven't been in touch with anyone who does.
Take last night - there was the clash between pro and anti in Alex. It didn't get totally out of control and the army moved in and fired a few shots into the air (watched this live on Al Jazeera English) and things sort of calmed down and the anti- lot moved away so to avoid a dust up.
This morning on BBC World and AJE it's 'Shots were fired' which while technically true, gives anyone who didn't watch it live last night the impression the army fired into the crowds which they did NOT.
Yes, I think some of the pro might be a put up job, but there are Egyptians who genuinely believe in Mubarak - and from across the social spectrum. One of my neighbours even wants the king back!
We also now have a division between those who want to start getting on with normal life again - it is very very tough now - and protesters who want to stick it out til the man goes.
The Egyptians need to work it out for themselves. I was speaking to Ayisha a couple of days ago and basically, we chose to make this our home, and we will go with the people's wishes. And like she says, at the moment, we dont feel anti-foreigner sentiment, but some folk have got the wind up a little - natural in the circumstances. Everyone reacts differently under stress.
I haven't fried the kitties just yet with a few fava beans and nice chianti
PS they guy who waters my garden just turned up to - erm - water it.
I am planning to sweep the stairs in our block of flats if the cleaner doesn't turn up which he normally on Wednesdays. My bit given all the younger and fitter guys are out patrolling every night.
Anyone who thinks Egyptians are not organized should see this - they are. Control centre in the mosque, walkie - talkies, lists of contact numbers for different folk in flats who are linked in to the walkie-talkies. I went out for a walk yesterday before it got dark and people I never saw before were saying hello to me. I even found an English woman who lives 5 minutes walk from me who I've never seen before!!!
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
rocks were being thrown... stampede followed... army refuses to interfere claiming both sides are "civilians"
smoke coming from somewhere...
mubarak's plan seems to be working well
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Not looking good at the moment ...a battle going on between both factions....he has to stand down before this gets worse....and it is bad now
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
The peaceful protesters should just sit down.
I don't think he will step down because of this PC. I think he is causing this to say that this is the reason he should not step down.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Then someone slips around the back and empties the Egyptian Museum while nobody's looking. Wouldn't that just be the icing on the cake.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
All I can say to all Egyptians is..... LEOPARDS DON'T CHANGE THEIR SPOTS.............think about it
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Clashes have broken out between pro- and anti-govt demonstrators in Tahrir Square. Anti-govt are taking weapons into the square. AJ says that M protester are going around provoking confrontations.
Im sorry, I mistyped, it's the pro-govt protestors that are the ones with the weapons.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Dubai's al-Arabiya TV says pro-Mubarak protesters have assaulted one of their reporting crews and destroyed their equipment.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
OK it's 1502 and my vodafone and etisalat mobiles are still working. Normally vodafone obeys commands to the second so maybe they're not going to be switched off after all.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Pro-M are Organized they have a cavalry of horses, camels and donkeys. This is insane.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
I bet they added the odd donkey here and there to make it appear as they are farmers and simple people.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
insane...camera zooming in a man picking up rocks off ground and trying to hit another man who is peacefully waving his signs.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Voda and Mobinil still working.
Can hear lots of shouting and car horns here now. Seem to be coming from corniche, bit early for a wedding Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
My Orange isn't talking to my chap's Vodafone via text - definitely. This was all day yesterday and early this morning. We've both sent about half a dozen but nada (and I'm still being charged for them - flaming cheek - they're saying they've gone). We can call each other fine though. He just emailed so he has internet too, yay!
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Does your chap have a UK vodafone? Texts are NOT being delivered to Egyptian phones. I know this for a fact because I have two networks and I test it daily!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Pro-Democracy protestors are showing POLICE identity cards the confiscated from Pro-M supporters.
AJ live
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
The BBC's Jeremy Bowen says sources told him that the ruling party had a meeting on Tuesday, and they decided to get their people back out on the streets.
Ah... it's Egyptian Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Yes, but like you say, they're docking the sending fee anyway!!
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
3:20pm Al Jazeera web producer in Tahrir Square says at least two camera crews (neither from Al Jazeera) being chased by mobs yelling "Al Jazeera, Al Jazeera!"
3:17pm Al Jazeera correspondents in Tahrir Square says that the pro-government mob is chanting slogans against Al Jazeera and apparently trying to find them. Reports of at least one Al-Arabiya correspondent being stabbed.
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Does your chap have a UK vodafone? Texts are NOT being delivered to Egyptian phones. I know this for a fact because I have two networks and I test it daily!
I received a text from Ria's Egypt phone at 12.22
"Back on line now too. All good here. President saying he won't run again and will leave in the next election is a good deal"
(must be watching too much telelvision).
I have been texting to her English phone the Aljazeer updates and recommending she has a look at the site if able to.
Posted by weirdkitty (Member # 15365) on :
My phones are fine- Vodafone and Egy one is etisalat
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
Hi Ria, welcome back on line.
This is much cheaper than sending texts...
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Looks like receipt of texts is very sporadic then.
I have tried texting between both my networks and nothing crosses. Even tried texting my Egy vodafone from my UK one but never delivered.
So anyway, the point it, do NOT assume texts are being delivered because they are probably not.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: 3:20pm Al Jazeera web producer in Tahrir Square says at least two camera crews (neither from Al Jazeera) being chased by mobs yelling "Al Jazeera, Al Jazeera!"
3:17pm Al Jazeera correspondents in Tahrir Square says that the pro-government mob is chanting slogans against Al Jazeera and apparently trying to find them. Reports of at least one Al-Arabiya correspondent being stabbed.
It is dreaful the number of people being beaten up
Posted by weirdkitty (Member # 15365) on :
Maybe for you mum, I'm on my iPhone as Sam is using laptop.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: 3:20pm Al Jazeera web producer in Tahrir Square says at least two camera crews (neither from Al Jazeera) being chased by mobs yelling "Al Jazeera, Al Jazeera!"
3:17pm Al Jazeera correspondents in Tahrir Square says that the pro-government mob is chanting slogans against Al Jazeera and apparently trying to find them. Reports of at least one Al-Arabiya correspondent being stabbed.
They're chanting against almost every TV news station. In Mohandiseen where pro Mubarak's far outnumber those in Tahrir clashed with a camera man for not aiming his camera where they thought he should be . They thought he was aiming his camera at smaller crowds to intentional deceive the public about heir numbers.
The protesters on both sides are generally easily intimidated and clashes were common.
The pro Mubarak protesters are not unlike the pro democracy ones. They are a mix of backgrounds and education levels. My friends, one is a director and the other is the head of the actors association (and a two faced hypocrite) were leading the protest last night in Muhandiseen which was joined today by other groups of pro Mubarak. So they're not thugs, security element or hired guns (though there may be few), they're mostly people who were turned around by Mubarak's speeches and promises. My friend called my last night to invite me to join him in his support march and told me that he had tears in his eyes while watching Mubarak. Others are scared because of the security situation and are looking for stability.
I was walking last night passed a group of people in Heliopolis sitting outside their building for security when I heard a guy reminiscing about the not so old days when we had a great police force that kept us safe. I stopped and after a brief discussion I left, as I often do, wondering if reform is at all possible. He was explaining to me of the need for police brutality and torture and that these are important tools to punish criminals and to extract confessions. Another assured me that they do the same things in western countries like Germany and USA and when I argued with them yet another man in the group told me the police beating up criminals is like a father beating his son; a form of discipling. When I told them that beating up children is criminal, they looked at each other then went back to their discussion as if I was not there.
I can't remember how many time I wrote this now but again, the greatest challenge will be to change the people. Removing the corrupt regime will make it easier a little but it is not going to be easy.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: 3:20pm Al Jazeera web producer in Tahrir Square says at least two camera crews (neither from Al Jazeera) being chased by mobs yelling "Al Jazeera, Al Jazeera!"
3:17pm Al Jazeera correspondents in Tahrir Square says that the pro-government mob is chanting slogans against Al Jazeera and apparently trying to find them. Reports of at least one Al-Arabiya correspondent being stabbed.
They're chanting against almost every TV news station. In Mohandiseen where pro Mubarak's far outnumber those in Tahrir clashed with a camera man for not aiming his camera where they thought he should be . They thought he was aiming his camera at smaller crowds to intentional deceive the public about heir numbers.
Welcome back.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: The pro Mubarak protesters are not unlike the pro democracy ones. [/QB]
that's interesting ... except they seem to have tear gas, police IDs, and oh yeah... notice what's happening in Tahrir square once the pro-mubarak protesters "joined"? Quite a marked difference from yesterday.
quote:Originally posted by this: The pro Mubarak protesters are not unlike the pro democracy ones.
that's interesting ... except they seem to have tear gas, police IDs, and oh yeah... notice what's happening in Tahrir square once the pro-mubarak protesters "joined"? Quite a marked difference from yesterday.
That's true, they are indeed violent minded. Vicious by all reports and accounts.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
I have been watching it on TV and can't look some of the time....the violence is so bad
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by this: The pro Mubarak protesters are not unlike the pro democracy ones.
that's interesting ... except they seem to have tear gas, police IDs, and oh yeah... notice what's happening in Tahrir square once the pro-mubarak protesters "joined"? Quite a marked difference from yesterday.
I left Tahrir about two hours ago and didn't see the kind of violence described here. I will call a friend who's till there and ask. And what i witnessed in Muhandiseen was exactly as I described, a mix of people from all walks of life not unlike the pro democracy protesters, may be just stupid! In Tahrir I argued with a man who hit a pro Muarak on the head as he was being pulled out by a group of pro democracy protester. That was just thuggery and there were many who has the same mentality. I don't have any doubt that the Mubarak regime s capable of sending thugs and looking to inflame the situation for their gain but that doesn't change the fact that there are way too many peaceful pro Mubarak supports for my liking.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
My Internet connection is so slow I can't view live video, I will be going out shortly to see for myself.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
helicopter is back circling.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
OK I see it now, gotta go.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I was told curfew was 3pm - what is the most reliable source of curfew times?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
So where have all these Mubarak supporters sprung from then? Did they think they think it was all a big joke in the beginning like he did?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
anti-govt protesters are retreated at least a 100 meters pro-mubarak protesters have secured vantage points at high rise buildings and are throwing rocks at the anti-govt. crowds
lots of tear gas smoke rising
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I was told curfew was 3pm - what is the most reliable source of curfew times?
State tv (Vile Tv)
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I don't think we should forget that there are genuine supporters of Mubarak amongst all Egyptians.
Of course, there will now be a split in the opposition as there always is about whether to accept his 'offer' and work towards elections in September, or go for the final 'push' now.
I am keeping my views to myself from here on in! This must be decided by Egyptians, not us.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Al jazeera english has been reporting it accurately as well.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: My phones are fine- Vodafone and Egy one is etisalat
Welcome back Kitty!!!
We had a short blackout here due to the bad weather. I now see the thugs throwing rocks off of a building. Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
In my part of Tahrir, pro-#Mubarak mobs arrived in buses, armed with machetes, straight-razors and clubs, very menacing. 26 minutes ago via web
Pro-Mubarak thugs everywhere have same talking points, same signs, same hostility to journalists. An organized crackdown. 1 minute ago via web
Nicholas Kristof NY Times Reporter
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
They did announce on SKY and BBC that curfew had changed to 1700 to 800 but in the light of what has been happening I wonder if it has changed again
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Ban Ki Moon says situation in Egypt is unacceptable
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon said on Wednesday the situation is Egypt is unacceptable.
Aat a joint press conference with British Prime Minister David Cameron, Moon said "I am deeply concerned at the continuing violence in Egypt and once again urge restraint to all sides. This is very much an unacceptable situation. Any attacks on peaceful demonstrators is unacceptable and I strongly condemn it."
"For the last decade, the United Nations has been warning of the need for change. It is important at this juncture to ensure an orderly and peaceful transition takes place. I urge all parties to engage in such dialogue and such process without any further delay. We should not underestimate the danger of instability across the Middle East," he added.
British PM condemned the violence taking place in Cairo, "if it turns out that the regime is in any way has been sponsoring or tolerating this violence, that would be completely and utterly unacceptable," he said.
"These are despicable scenes that we are seeing and they should not be repeated. They underline the need for political reform," he added.
**Egyptian Goverment rejects international pressure to start immediate transition to democracy
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently...Warren Buffett
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I don't think we should forget that there are genuine supporters of Mubarak amongst all Egyptians.
Of course, there will now be a split in the opposition as there always is about whether to accept his 'offer' and work towards elections in September, or go for the final 'push' now.
I am keeping my views to myself from here on in! This must be decided by Egyptians, not us.
Yeah, you're right. I have all good intentions but I just can't help myself. I'm an opinionated little bugger.
It makes me smile when you hear westerners say yay to democracy, but they must make sure they don't vote for X, Y, Z. Kind of defeats the object really.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
I just cant bear to watch this fighting anymore. Cant he see that he has the power to stop this and if he was any sort of a leader he would do anything for his country and his people.Its time he put a stop to this and bow out for the greater good
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
just string the ugly fucker up for his 'let them eat cake' mentality.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
I agree - yet who defines evil?
In my view, foreigners like me making ill-informed comments from a place of relative safety (as of the now - maybe the position will change) without fully understanding the views of everyone involved and the repercussions of it all may contribute to greater evil. For example, our presence may provide 'evidence' of foreign agitation and prolong matters.
It is far from simple.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
These were totally peaceful demonstrations - after the brutal police withdrew from the scene - I was there yesterday, it was like a carnival. Today, these pro-Mubarak people, who took 9 days to discover their love of him, are turning it violent. What better proof that Mubarak cannot lead a peaceful transition to democracy?
Like others I was thinking maybe give him this last six months, but not now, now we ALL have to be out on Friday. This man must go. He only knows violence, repression and fear as his methods of communication with the country and people
Posted by Momma_Dukez (Member # 16037) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by adelly: I live in egypt and am married to an egyptian. I think there are many good people who post here. I just think everyone should respect each other.
Thats nice. Anastasia porter has been lying about her life for years.
She only has two kids, a son and a daughter. And she's lied about them, often attributing successes of other children as her own children's successes.
Anastasia Porter (Tigerweed) even called my mother one evening on skype. She called my mother.
Now I know who she is and if she gives me any problems and continues to lie about a non-existant past in egypt, I'll give her a taste of her own medicine.
York, NC
u write this crap as if we care. like what do u think we gonna do? read it, then leap back stunned in our chairs? gawd DAYYUM your one weird trashbag. Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: These were totally peaceful demonstrations - after the brutal police withdrew from the scene - I was there yesterday, it was like a carnival. Today, these pro-Mubarak people, who took 9 days to discover their love of him, are turning it violent. What better proof that Mubarak cannot lead a peaceful transition to democracy?
Like others I was thinking maybe give him this last six months, but not now, now we ALL have to be out on Friday. This man must go. He only knows violence, repression and fear as his methods of communication with the country and people
Bump.
Let's keep this on topic Momma_Dukez, please?
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
I am listening to Aljazeera from the safety of my work desk here in England.
Can any tell me why their reporters don't seem to be getting views of any pro Mubarak protesters? Every 'member of the public' etc they have spoken to have been from the anti-M protesters
As someone mentioned earlier there must be genuine pro-M supporters there.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Thanks Tootse,
One explanation is that they are being attacked by them? It's hard to get opinions from people attacking you and trying to take away your equipment.
Can you explain why Egypt TV shows the protests in Tahrir Square only now, but previously was showing calming shots of traffic moving across 6 October bridge?
Best Wishes, LUN
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
I agree - yet who defines evil?
In my view, foreigners like me making ill-informed comments from a place of relative safety (as of the now - maybe the position will change) without fully understanding the views of everyone involved and the repercussions of it all may contribute to greater evil. For example, our presence may provide 'evidence' of foreign agitation and prolong matters.
It is far from simple.
People are able to reason and recognize good and evil. Yes sometimes it is not clear, but in this situation, and with the developments, it is as clear as night and day who is evil and who is good. Read Citizen's last post, she said it was like a Carnival yesterday, and today Mubarak people and turned it violent. In this simple situation who is “good” and who is “evil”? Some times it is really that simple.
Human Rights Watch issued a release basically stating “Please Help The Egyptian People From Mubarak Thugs”. This is an institution that is benevolent and strives for the well being of mankind in general.
Respected Arabic and Western journalists such as Ayman Mohelydin and Nicholas Kristof, who also is a two time Pulitzer winner, recognize what is unfolding. Kristof wrote “It's not quite right to describe what's happening in #Tahrir as "clashes." These are attacks by #Mubarak thugs.”, and “It's #Mubarak thugocracy on #Tahrir. “
This are eyes and ears of what is happening. Are the journalists discreditable? Are Egyptian eyewitness meritless? Is Human Rights Watch a liar. Are Egyptian celebrities and intellectuals such as Sadaawi, Mona ElTahwayi, etc without genuine grievances. Are the countless UN reports or Rampant torture a lie?
It is as clear as night and day of who is good and who is evil.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
please metinoot....if there is one time to stop you crap it is now and it is on this thread....we are all hearing Aljezeera and people are dying for things they believe .... Im a little person in this tiny world too and I dont want to be remembered as a mad bitch....this is history happening and its not reading in history books years later....we are in different parts of the world with a love and interest in Egypt for varying reasons....stop the bitterness or even if u think its righteous save it for other threads.... Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by tootse: I am listening to Aljazeera from the safety of my work desk here in England.
Can any tell me why their reporters don't seem to be getting views of any pro Mubarak protesters? Every 'member of the public' etc they have spoken to have been from the anti-M protesters
As someone mentioned earlier there must be genuine pro-M supporters there.
Tootsie, Al Jazeera have been accused of being infiltrators etc. by state TV because of their very grass roots coverage. Another network, US I think, were run out of Tahrir by pro-M people who thought they were Al Jazeera. Mubarak and his people don't understand what free media means, that they can express their opinion freely to anyone... and spread their message peacefully
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
I agree - yet who defines evil?
In my view, foreigners like me making ill-informed comments from a place of relative safety (as of the now - maybe the position will change) without fully understanding the views of everyone involved and the repercussions of it all may contribute to greater evil. For example, our presence may provide 'evidence' of foreign agitation and prolong matters.
It is far from simple.
We have been watching this protest from the comfort of our homes yes, but we are baring witness of the events. We are praying for the safety of our friends and the good Egyptians who have for days have peacefully made their request known.
We are not manipulating their minds, they have their own minds. What we do is honor them by watching, by reporting what we see, by hearing their plea and not turning our head.
The world will never again be the same because we have access to view the world and bare witness, and many activist have offered help from the comforts of their own home. We serve our duty for them.
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
quote:Originally posted by longusername: Thanks Tootse,
One explanation is that they are being attacked by them? It's hard to get opinions from people attacking you and trying to take away your equipment.
Can you explain why Egypt TV shows the protests in Tahrir Square only now, but previously was showing calming shots of traffic moving across 6 October bridge?
Best Wishes, LUN
Sorry I won't be able to answer that question. I have no idea what's showing on tv in Egypt.
Are all pro-Ms supporters attacking people then?
Aren't there any genuine non-violent pro-M supporters to talk to?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: please metinoot....if there is one time to stop you crap it is now and it is on this thread....we are all hearing Aljezeera and people are dying for things they believe .... Im a little person in this tiny world too and I dont want to be remembered as a mad bitch....this is history happening and its not reading in history books years later....we are in different parts of the world with a love and interest in Egypt for varying reasons....stop the bitterness or even if u think its righteous save it for other threads....
In all fairness to metinoot =- she has. That post is on page 1 of a 19 page thread and was written over a week ago. It was Momma Dukez who chose to bring back up from the dead and go off topic.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
@D_Oro Yes we bare witness. Yes we are in safety of our homes, but this is the least we can do. Egyptians on facebook and twitter are pleading with everyone to spread the word of what is happening in Egypt. Read their pleas, they are all over twitter. Egyptsearch has more than 100,000 visitors per month, and most just lurk and read. And I bet that some people will read this thread. Yes we are witnesses. Egyptians need all the help they can get and the more we spread the word, the more their voices are heard.
This is probably the most popular English based Egypt forum.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Noam Chomsky: “This Is The Most Remarkable Regional Uprising That I Can Remember”
Oh and D_Oro I was totally agreeing with you. I forgot to type "Exactly" Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I don't think it is 100% black and white. I know or know people who know folk who are pro, anti, and also anti- but can we please get back to normal. And let me say they range from the rich to the makwa.
I am not Egyptian, and have only lived here just over 3 years. I do not understand the full nuances of everything that is going on.
I was told from two different Egyptian sources today that this was going to happen (hours before it did) and make sure I stay in - sure enough I decided today not to venture out for the first time (though have to say I was about to go for a walk when someone called to say the net was back - ho hum). They said this was clear from last night's speech. Of course, I only heard the translation.
Oh and I resent the implication that I'm accusing anyone of lying. I am not.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Wow, we just got back online a few hours ago. How did this thread grow so fast while we were gone? I'm assuming it's all links from those outside Egypt? Haven't had a chance to go back through it.
Everyone present and accounted for?
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Well last Friday was The Friday of Anger, this Friday is the Friday of Riddance - Gom'at El Khalas.
Today is proof enough to me this man must go, his methods are unacceptable in any civilised country
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Where's Dzosser?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
One of my dreams was to be a journalist. Those of you who were present in Egypt during the Internet Blackout, would you mind answering these questions.
1 – Where were you during the uprising, which city and area?
2- Did the demonstrations reach your area? Did you witness any demonstrations elsewhere, violence or looting we heard about?
3- A member who left Egypt, mentioned “Rape”, I did not read any concurring statements online, did you hear about sexual violence against women?
4- What was the food situation. We read reports that stores were closed and those that were open charged higher prices, sometimes as much as 3x the price.
5-What was the cash situation, with cashless ATMs, how did those who did not have cash get by?
6-Did you think about leaving Egypt, and how scared were you, if you were?
7-Are you stockpiling supplies and food now, in the event that matters get even worse?
8-Did you venture outside, and if so how far from your home? If so how was the transport situation?
9-Finally, How did you spend your days and nights during this period of uncertainty?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Al jazeera reporting military trucks shouting to go inside and take cover.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Tootse. I read on the NY times guys twitter that they tried to talk to the pro side but were attacked, 2 other news crews have been attacked as well and had their equipment smashed. Reporters maybe a little nervous about approaching the pro camp now
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
OK my net is **definitely creaking** - it did this in the few hours last Thursday before they switched it off. Maybe it's just the millions getting on line now the curfews up but who knows!
Things seem to have calmed a lot in Tahrir now judging from AJE which I am still getting - others are not. I think I might be receiving it via Hotbird. Most people just have Nilesat.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I got a taste of tear gas! Not something I want to taste again. We're just off a major street and there have been a lot of protesters walking by going down towards Tahrir. I've got video and some pictures but not sure if it's safe to upload that stuff yet so waiting a bit.
We stocked up on some supplies on Friday night but I think it's time to do some more stocking up.
Tanks and gun fire seem to be the normal here at night now. Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Oh God, please stay safe loved one
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I just got one of 'those' texts on my vodafone. Will try and write it here in anglicised - not sure what it means:
ale kol am?ab?akht?akh ale kol moaTn shreef hafZooa ale hza albld falooSn baQ alabd
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I got a taste of tear gas! Not something I want to taste again. We're just off a major street and there have been a lot of protesters walking by going down towards Tahrir. I've got video and some pictures but not sure if it's safe to upload that stuff yet so waiting a bit.
We stocked up on some supplies on Friday night but I think it's time to do some more stocking up.
Tanks and gun fire seem to be the normal here at night now.
Good stuff, thanks. You mentioned security and you are right, state security police, is wicked, they might not take much action on westerners but they won't hesitate to abuse Egyptians. This makes we think, there is no turning back, the safety of the people is at stake, if HM and his security apparatuses remain in place. They will target many people.
One more question. Is “Civil War” in the back of your mind? Or are you filled with optimism, what is the feeling?
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
To every mother, father, sister, brother. To every honest citizen. Protect this country as the nation is eternal.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Am hoping to get some money tomorrow - a friend and her husband are going to try and come over in their car from near Pyramids so we can go on a cash hunt. I have a few kilos of rice and beans in. I will upload photos of my 'emergency cooking' for your delight and delectation later - but that might be just a bit TOO shocking Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I think everyone who's following what's going on is worried about civil war right now. I think it's a legitimate concern if things don't settle down immediately.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Happy to see you Dz - was going to give you a call if you didn't pop up!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I just got one of 'those' texts on my vodafone. Will try and write it here in anglicised - not sure what it means:
ale kol am?ab?akht?akh ale kol moaTn shreef hafZooa ale hza albld falooSn baQ alabd
To all fathers, sisters and brothers To all honorable citizens Take care/preserve this country, ?
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: [QUOTE] Is “Civil War” in the back of your mind? Or are you filled with optimism, what is the feeling?
Thats what i am worried about. Sky news seemed to be hinting it could turn that way
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: One of my dreams was to be a journalist. Those of you who were present in Egypt during the Internet Blackout, would you mind answering these questions.
1 – Where were you during the uprising, which city and area?
Luxor
quote:2- Did the demonstrations reach your area? Did you witness any demonstrations elsewhere, violence or looting we heard about?
Yes there were demonstrations, there were more today. Last Friday, or it may have been Saturday, there were people locked in Sheraton Hotel in area Awamaya and tear gas and apparent looting, think it was the day the prisoners 'broke out' *cough* Apart from that it has been peaceful protests and an atmosphere of togetherness. Quiet as tourists have been advised to stay inside but brave broke free and carried on with their holidays and sight seeing.
quote:3- A member who left Egypt, mentioned “Rape”, I did not read any concurring statements online, did you hear about sexual violence against women?
Only warnings when we heard the prisoners had 'escaped'. No sign of anything like this, no violence towards women or tourists or each other. Everyone is helpful, concerned and polite.
quote:4- What was the food situation. We read reports that stores were closed and those that were open charged higher prices, sometimes as much as 3x the price.
From Friday onwards some places have closed, fortunately my mini market and veggie man and others in this area were fine. Problems with people panic buying, which is fine if you can get your money out of the closed ATM! On west bank same problem with lack of some supplies due to panic buying of those with cash. Not had any problems with high prices only a friend sold me voda credit and said a 25le card was 50le as black market prices, I had no change so we settled on 2 cups of coffee next time he comes over.
quote:5-What was the cash situation, with cashless ATMs, how did those who did not have cash get by?
Not been able to get cash at all although heard rumours some ATM's stll had money. I think the fear was someone trying to rob the ATMs though. Army tank stationed outside HSBC and army on corniche. No cash is normal here though and most have a friend or a shop owner that will still supply on credit.
quote:6-Did you think about leaving Egypt, and how scared were you, if you were?
Not at all, this is my home. Wasn't scared at all, more elated and happy to be here during this. Possibly would have felt differently if I was in Cairo about fear factor but most I spoke to there were fine and coping.
quote:7-Are you stockpiling supplies and food now, in the event that matters get even worse?
Possibly will buy more Cleopatra, tea, coffee, sugar and rice when I can get some cash out.
quote:8-Did you venture outside, and if so how far from your home? If so how was the transport situation?
Absolutely did. Went to passport office on Sunday as visa is finished, it was closed so here illegally now, yayyyy Went about as normal, transport was as normal even been sailing.
quote:9-Finally, How did you spend your days and nights during this period of uncertainty?
Hubby was stuck in hurghada till they could get petrol yesterday so I was alone. Cleaned all the flat but for the dreaded spare room, thank God the net is back. Had BBC World and CNN on all day, learnt HTML and CSS basics, sorted out all the files on external hard drive, visited friends, went for walks, sailed, had a lovely holiday really. Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: One of my dreams was to be a journalist. Those of you who were present in Egypt during the Internet Blackout, would you mind answering these questions.
1 – Where were you during the uprising, which city and area?
2- Did the demonstrations reach your area? Did you witness any demonstrations elsewhere, violence or looting we heard about?
3- A member who left Egypt, mentioned “Rape”, I did not read any concurring statements online, did you hear about sexual violence against women?
4- What was the food situation. We read reports that stores were closed and those that were open charged higher prices, sometimes as much as 3x the price.
5-What was the cash situation, with cashless ATMs, how did those who did not have cash get by?
6-Did you think about leaving Egypt, and how scared were you, if you were?
7-Are you stockpiling supplies and food now, in the event that matters get even worse?
8-Did you venture outside, and if so how far from your home? If so how was the transport situation?
9-Finally, How did you spend your days and nights during this period of uncertainty?
1. Heliopolis, Cairo 2. Joined demonstration from Abbassiya to Ramsis at least 100,000 the length of the street families, women, men, children, stopped at Ramsis by sheer numbers, tear gas from the square, took back road in Fagalla, quiet but hit force field of invisible tear gas, turned back eyes streaming, coughing. Completely peaceful, no looting, no violence. 3. No violence against women 4. Supermarkets packed out, shelves emptying, but warm cooperative community spirit. Fruit and veg price rises, in poor areas suffering more, queuing for bread, price gone up. 5. ATMS were running out, people helping each other out. Many people staying with family. Call from HSBC last night at 10pm to inform me that ATMs now restocked with money! 6. No, will not leave. Not scared because of this community spirit. When police force was withdrawn, ordinary people took over and did a better job, organizing traffic, patrolling streets. Now things getting ugly. 7. Stockpiled last Saturday, won't do it again unless things get much worse. 8. Went out to verify two rumours - one written up in state press - that Al Salam Hotel trashed and looted, not true, The other that Horreya Mall trashed and looted, not true! Went to office, streets quiet, people cooperative and friendly. After curfew citizen checkpoints get very annoying, everye 50m on some streets. 9. Glued to news, Al Jazeera, BBC, CNN, Egyptian state (blecchhhh). Out to demos on two days, work one day, shopping one day. Nights sleeping, but men out guarding the streets.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
reports that state tv is reporting that armed, dangerous people are heading toward tahrir square... can anyone confirm?
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Oh and D_Oro I was totally agreeing with you. I forgot to type "Exactly"
Oh good, I was writing "Exactly" to your post when we had another rolling blackout. Texas has imposed rotating electricity outages to ease the stress on the power grids. We just can't handle this northern weather.
I do hope everyone is posting to their FB page as well to inform and educate those who are not paying attention.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: [QUOTE] Is “Civil War” in the back of your mind? Or are you filled with optimism, what is the feeling?
Thats what i am worried about. Sky news seemed to be hinting it could turn that way
Civil war already between friend and family... been arguing on the phone with people all day!
But I think what Mubarak and his new government have done tonight, after the world witnessed 9 days of peaceful demonsrations, has got to be the last nail in his coffin...
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Happy to see you Dz - was going to give you a call if you didn't pop up!
Thanks SQ, I hope you'll find some cash soon, there's Hyper one that opens starting 9 a.m. from what I hear from my 6 October/Sheikh Zayed friends, try their ATM, take care and stay safe.
I am very disappointed at those thugs that came charging into Tahrir, yesterday evening our newly appointed PM promised not to harm any of the peaceful Tahrir demonstrators, now he's lost his credibility by what the world has seen..why must everything we do end up in chaos ?? Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Just got another message on my vodafone - won't bother duplicating it here. They are the only texts I'm getting - received one at 6am another that I put here half hour ago and now this one.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Latest reports on twitter
DominicKavakeb Dominic Kavakeb It's so vital that world understands this is not a divided #Egypt. This is the state attacking the people. #jan25 #tahrir
NickKristof Nicholas Kristof Bursts of automatic weapons fire just now, west of #Tahrir. A miracle that only 1 person is known to have died today.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Welcome back all those in Egypt. Thanks for your reports.
citizen, Do you mind if I repost your answers to my FB?
I also want to add that if anyone has questions about who the "good ones are".
One group were protesting peacefully for days and the other came in with weapons and attacking the peaceful people.
"Blessed are the peace keepers"
Does anyone know what is happening in Mansura?
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Another tweet
goobyk nelly kassem Direct news from cairo #tahrir .. they REFUSE to let citizens go in and help the protesters while #mubarak 's thugs KILL THEM
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
@Ayisha that scene of 5 star hotel, looting, tourists going out enjoying their holiday and freed criminal prisoners running about is just crazy. Html and css that's cool. Thanks for sharing.
@citizen, definitely positive report, good to read from someone who is in Cairo, as the media painted a dire picture of Cairo, especially western press. All the news of foreign nationals leaving Egypt was scary as it made it appear that Cairo was on the brink of total chaos. Good luck with Friday Protest. And I agree with you that Mubarak is nearing the end, I just hope Sulayman is not the compromise. Thanks.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Its all getting worse rightnow in tahrir square
ChrisVehemence Christopher Sheils more than 750 injured in #Tahrir, at least 3 confirmed dead. bullets (and not rubber ones) flying and firebombs being thrown at protesters.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Can you guys suggest your favorite sites online right now for getting current news? I've just been watching CNN's current feed on stuff but I know there's a lot out there.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Al Jazeera English
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
fustat R @ElFoulio: Why did Vodafone send an sms to all its subscribers informing them of a big pro-Mubarak rally going out today? #Jan25
fustat R @hebalsherif Nile TV's May Kamel also quits after they were instructed not cover any violence against demonstrators #jan25 #tahrir
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Anderson Cooper and his crew were attacked by supporters of Hosni Mubarak in Cairo on Wednesday. CNN's Steve Brusk tweeted that Cooper was punched in the head ten times.
The incident came as pro-Mubarak supporters attacked protesters calling for the Egyptian president to step down. Speaking on "American Morning" after the attack, Cooper said that he and his crew had been trying to go to a neutral zone between the two groups.
"We never got that far," he said. "We were set upon by pro-Mubarak supporters punching us in the head." Cooper said that he and the crew tried to escape, but that the crowd only grew: "the crowd kept growing, kept throwing punches, kicks...suddenly a young man would look at you and punch you in the face."
A CNN update said that "no one was seriously hurt" in the attack.
A pro-Mubarak group also roughed up a Washington Post editor on Wednesday. video Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Great speech of Mubarak, it brought tears to my eyes.
And he is much wiser than anyone down there on Tahrir Square: You can't rush into democracy overnight, it won't happen. Don't let the country sink into a real chaos because of too hasty made decisions.
People need to show patience and should accept the fact that he will be gone before long but then a new more proper government will take over this wonderful country of Egypt.
A new and very exciting chapter for the Egyptians has started; I am very happy for them.
Are you still very happy for them? They're being slaughtered. Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Can you guys suggest your favorite sites online right now for getting current news? I've just been watching CNN's current feed on stuff but I know there's a lot out there.
@D_Oro The last thing anyone should irk are journalists, NDP are not just thugs but also imbeciles.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Thanks for the Twitter ones. Need some twitter people in cairo, bloggers or whatever. Took me 2 hours today to join bloody twitter!
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
where the hell did they come from?the protest was so peaceful when the cops left now its horrible...thats sad how someones life is like a piece of trash.. i am glad i dont know anyone that treats life like garbage...
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I am keen to hear This's next eyewitness report from Tahrir.
Round my way (a compound - mostly Egyptians) is very quiet (well we are half way out in the desert) and the guys are doing a great job on patrols.
Anyone who thinks Egyptians can't organize - yes they can - and very well too. They have a control room in the mosque, walkie talkies, a network of contacts, patrol shifts.
I also just called up a friend who is doing neighbourhood watch out in 6th October City in one of the more typical Egyptian districts and he says it's quiet over there too.
I would like to know more about what is going on around the country that is 'off-screen' and not Tahrir.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Welcome back all those in Egypt. Thanks for your reports.
citizen, Do you mind if I repost your answers to my FB?
I also want to add that if anyone has questions about who the "good ones are".
One group were protesting peacefully for days and the other came in with weapons and attacking the peaceful people.
"Blessed are the peace keepers"
Does anyone know what is happening in Mansura?
Sure, repost anything you like. I put my Ramsis St and Tahrir photos on facebook and tried to tweet a bit but twitter is overrun. Got to get the word out there.
I must say that in yesterday's festival atmosphere, many people were holding handmade banners with very witty slogans, everyone was milling around taking photos of them, the Egyptians never lose their sense of humour. I'm devastated at what's happened today, but it was too good to be true, wasn't it? Impossible that an Arab dictator would go quietly. There is not a single Arab country in which the people have chosen their own leaders ever. Egypt or Tunisia might be the first, or maybe it's just not possible for this part of the world.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
We have neighborhood watch too Shanta. They seem quite keen on firing off the guns at irregular intervals, though not as much as the first few nights. But things seem to be safe enough here at night. Everyone seems to have a gun or some kind of large blunt instrument, and they are keeping alert all night. We've actually had a lot of action round our way with the protesters going off towards Tahrir. It's quite a sight to see them marching straight down Faisel. Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
There were some reported clashes between opposing sides in hayadek maadi according to my friends. They are arming themselves in neighborhood.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
After watching the scenes today on Tahrir Square I gotta say
EGYPT IS DOOMED.
Even if Mubarak would leave tonight - and that's what one or two million Egyptians want out of a population of 80+ million people - there will be fighting going on for the next several months.
Many people will really starve now thanks to the youths who decided to start an intifada online without having any plans in place for a post-Mubarak future.
Poor poor Egypt.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Litany of Abuses Fueled Protesters’ Fury by Jasmin Ramsey and Aprille Muscara, February 02, 2011
In Egypt, where protesters continued to demonstrate Tuesday for the eighth day in a row, the use of torture by law enforcement officials over the past two decades has contributed to the growing unrest, rights groups say.
In a new report by Human Rights Watch (HRW), the international advocacy group claims the practice is endemic and often practiced with impunity. “Egyptians deserve a clean break from the incredibly entrenched practice of torture,” said Joe Stork, deputy director of the Middle East and North Africa Division at HRW, in a statement. “The Egyptian government’s foul record on this issue is a huge part of what is still bringing crowds onto the streets today.” Mubarak’s appointment on Sunday of Omar Suleiman as his vice president – his first – has largely been received with disapproval by Egyptian protesters, as allegations of his involvement with torture are publicized by critics. As the head of the Egyptian General Intelligence Service (GIS), Suleiman worked with the CIA’s renditions program.
Torture and Terror
According to another HRW report from six years ago, from the 1990s through 2005, Egypt received the largest number of CIA detainees under the U.S. intelligence agency’s controversial extraordinary renditions program, which delivered suspected terrorists to governments with questionable rights records for interrogation.
HRW’s latest report, titled “‘Work on Him Until He Confesses’: Impunity for Torture in Egypt,” claims that the country’s State Security Investigations (SSI) – which is responsible for monitoring political dissidents and opposition forces and is a leg of the country’s intelligence community along with Suleiman’s GIS – is Egypt’s most notorious perpetrator of abuses, including routine forced disappearances. Nasr al-Sayed Hassan Nasr, a former Muslim Brotherhood member, told HRW about his 60-day detention, where a SSI officer told him that “[t]his is the biggest citadel in the Middle East for extracting information. You are 35 meters below the ground in a place that nobody except the minister of interior knows about.”
Nasr says he was blind-folded the entire time, beaten, electro-shocked, and threatened with sexual abuse and humiliation. Laurence Wright, author of The Looming Tower, a history of al-Qaeda, suggests that a connection exists between the abuses of Egypt’s jails, where al-Qaeda’s number two, Ayman Zawahiri, was tortured, and the 9/11 attacks on the Twin Towers in New York and the Pentagon.
“By visiting imprisonment, torture, and exile upon Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, Mubarak foreclosed any possibility of an Islamic revolution in his own country,” wrote conservative columnist Ross Douthat in the New York Times Monday, citing Wright. “But he also helped radicalize and internationalize his country’s Islamists, pushing men … out of Egyptian politics and into the global jihad.”
A state of emergency, which essentially allows security forces to operate outside the law, has been in place in Egypt since 1967. Hosni Mubarak, who became president in 1981, has justified the extension, despite international denunciation, on the basis of a continued threat of terrorism.
With some $2 billion in U.S. military and economic aid pouring into Egypt every year, Washington has had to balance its longstanding support of the Mubarak regime against public criticisms of Cairo’s repression of citizens and abuses of power.
A January 2009 WikiLeaks cable from U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Margaret Scobey to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton admitted that Mubarak’s government “has not begun serious work on trying to transform the police and security services from instruments of power that serve and protect the regime into institutions operating in the public interest, despite official slogans to the contrary.”
In March of that year, Clinton responded to a question about a State Department report on Egypt’s human rights record by saying, “We consider Egypt to be a friend and … we all have room for improvement.”
Impunity and Injustice
Over the past 20 years, Egyptian authorities have shifted from denying the pervasiveness of allegations of torture to conceding that while abuse does occur, complaints are investigated and brought to trial if there is enough evidence.
But the 95-page HRW report states that factors within Egypt’s legal and institutional framework impede torture victims from holding the authorities accountable and discourage them from lodging complaints or following through with them. These include a lack of prosecutorial independence, conflicts of interest within police ranks, and witness intimidation.
Last summer, the issue of police brutality peaked in the public’s consciousness when the death of Khaled Said gained widespread publicity. Witnesses claim Said was arrested by police in an Internet café, dragged out into the street, and beaten to death. Khaled’s family believes the authorities wanted to punish the 28-year-old for circulating a video recording of police corruption, HRW says.
According to the report, an investigation into Said’s case was closed after claims of “false allegations” by the Ministry of Interior, but re-opened after organized protests and an unusual amount of press coverage.
HRW also cited the example of Imad al-Kabir, a microbus driver from Giza who was tortured by police in 2006. A video of his abuse reached the Internet and sparked public outcry and press interest, which ultimately resulted in the prosecution and sentencing of an officer.
But human rights groups claim the amount of attention paid to Said’s case by authorities and the conviction and sentencing which resulted from al-Kabir’s case are rare in Egypt.
According to the HRW report, government statistics show that between 2006 and 2010, citizens filed hundreds of charges of deaths and abuse in police custody. Egyptian courts only convicted a handful of officers for torture and inhumane treatment.
“In a country where torture remains a serious and systemic problem, the conviction of a mere seven police officers over four years reflects a huge disconnect from reality and leaves hundreds of victims and families without justice,” Stork said.
(Inter Press Service)
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: After watching the scenes today on Tahrir Square I gotta say
EGYPT IS DOOMED.
Even if Mubarak would leave tonight - and that's what one or two million Egyptians want out of a population of 80+ million people - there will be fighting going on for the next several months.
Many people will really starve now thanks to the youths who decided to start an intifada online without having any plans in place for a post-Mubarak future.
Poor poor Egypt.
I am shocked at your comments. Egypt is not doomed. What kind of comment is that?
The pro-gov supporters came in with weapons, tear gas, on horses and aggressively disrupted and attacked a peaceful protest. And you honestly believe that these few with weapons and tear gas are representative of half of Egypt?.... come on... this is not rocket science.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I love egypt and all destruction makes me sad.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: After watching the scenes today on Tahrir Square I gotta say
EGYPT IS DOOMED.
Even if Mubarak would leave tonight - and that's what one or two million Egyptians want out of a population of 80+ million people - there will be fighting going on for the next several months.
Many people will really starve now thanks to the youths who decided to start an intifada online without having any plans in place for a post-Mubarak future.
Poor poor Egypt.
So your logic is that the peaceful protesters are at fault here while Mubarak's brutal police state is all fine? I pay taxes for those police who disappeared from the streets in order to protect ONE man. The man has not been able to eradicate poverty or illiteracy in 30 years. And if you criticise him he has you arrested and tortured. We have seen today exactly how he means to handle the transition period...
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Is there any truth in this comment I read on here somewhere that he is being tried in a military court for pulling the police out on Saturday?
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I am due to get money on 15th. Does anyone know if atms will continue working and if banks will be open.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Adelly, I had it confirmed that HSBC's in Korba have money. Hope you are holding up ok.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I don't think anyone can say Adelly!
Is there any way you could keep the money in the US until you know what's happening? Might not be a great time for transferring currency across?
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Is there any truth in this comment I read on here somewhere that he is being tried in a military court for pulling the police out on Saturday?
No, but he should be. Some people are blaming Habib El Adly the ex interior minister as if he could have done it without Mubarak knowing.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: Does anyone know if atms will continue working and if banks will be open.
CIB ATMs were working fine in Maadi today.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: After watching the scenes today on Tahrir Square I gotta say
EGYPT IS DOOMED.
Even if Mubarak would leave tonight - and that's what one or two million Egyptians want out of a population of 80+ million people - there will be fighting going on for the next several months.
Many people will really starve now thanks to the youths who decided to start an intifada online without having any plans in place for a post-Mubarak future.
Poor poor Egypt.
So your logic is that the peaceful protesters are at fault here while Mubarak's brutal police state is all fine? I pay taxes for those police who disappeared from the streets in order to protect ONE man. The man has not been able to eradicate poverty or illiteracy in 30 years. And if you criticise him he has you arrested and tortured. We have seen today exactly how he means to handle the transition period...
I have to agree with citizen and am quite surprised at your comment TL.
The pro oppression are an organized part of mr oppressions plans of 'reform'. It has been peaceful for 8 days now and these 'sudden' pro oppressor lot come in ARMED? This is the same regime that released prisoners all over the country at the same time to cause unrest, the same regime that are looting and trying hard to make it appear to be the protestors.
Egypt is not doomed, it was and it will be if he stays.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Sorry adelly, I missed the ATM bit, HSBC ATM in Korba have cash. They have a 2000le limit for all customers though.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I just hope they are working in 2 weeks.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
i wasnt sure if i was against hm but now that he has sent them murders to hurt protesters,,i am against him now.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Supposed to be nice weather for tomorrow and Friday. I heard there will be up to 20 million people out on Friday to protest!!! Crazy stuff.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
What's the saying again? Oh yes: Divide and Rule Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
How well fed and all the same age the pro-Mubarak guys look.....
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
Does anyone know what is in the minds of the military? How can they just stand there and watch these pro-Mubarak thugs beat and kill the peaceful protesters? Do they not have a heart? Was all of the nicey nice stuff between the army and the people just a farce? I'm sooo confused.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Hey DB, what does your hubby have to say about all this? How are his sisters doing? Hope they are safe and well.
Posted by marydot (Member # 15932) on :
I got Al Jazeera live on my tv now.
Fire bombs are been thrown by the people on both sides at Tahrir Square and Tanks are firing in the air trying to disburst the crowds.
More people are injured and a ambulance was mobbed and not able to get through.
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
Looks like their shift's finished. Top of the hour....
"evanchill The Mubarak crowd at the Egyptian museum is melting away"
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: After watching the scenes today on Tahrir Square I gotta say
EGYPT IS DOOMED.
Even if Mubarak would leave tonight - and that's what one or two million Egyptians want out of a population of 80+ million people - there will be fighting going on for the next several months.
Many people will really starve now thanks to the youths who decided to start an intifada online without having any plans in place for a post-Mubarak future.
Poor poor Egypt.
It's a revolution. At the beginning I couldn't understand how it was going so peacefully - I foolishly believed he would simply hold his hands up and quit. But how many dictatorships simply fizzle out? Poof. Gone. He's had 30 years of calling the shots so of course he's not going to just say "Oh go on then. Tattie bye."
I did hear a pro Mubarak lady on the radio tonight. She said they love him. Now I don't know how real or phony she was, but she they asked her why. She said he brought security. And you could almost give him that. He did face a massive battle with terrorism, and he sent out a pretty robust message. But at what price to his own people? Civil liberties? Torture? False imprisonment? Bribery? Corruption? Murder? Sure it gave the visitor greater protection, but why should the Egyptian be treated like a second class citizen? In Egypt for crying out loud.
Every time we go through security, they look at my passport, hand it back. My companion hands over his id, is asked several questions - what's your name, where do you work, where are you going, what is your relationship, even, and this one really got my goat this time, why are you wearing those clothes. WTH. Is there a need to be rude? Sure, check the id - check mine too if you like. Look it up on the computer, whatever. It's the attitude I don't care for. What I'm talking about is zilch on the scale of things, but if I had to put up with this on a longterm basis I'd have torn all my hair out yonks ago.
Nobody wants to see people suffering, and they will, they are, but how many people were suffering out of the public eye? Who would have known about Mohammed Bouazizi if the touchlight he sparked hadn't turned Tunisia on it's head? And we should know about him. Where people are driven to such extremes for the sake of a few dollars for a market licence it's a sick and screwed up world where no one listens or cares.
I don't believe Egypt is doomed. Out of destruction comes creation. It's the country's chance to rise up and raise the bar.
None of my business, mind. Just an observation.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Aye... Continual gunfire. Military helicopters still circling and molotov cocktails are being launched from rooftops into crowds.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Yeah, im watching al jazeera too. My husband went to giza and got stuck there because of whats happening downtown.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I don't believe Egypt is doomed. Out of destruction comes creation. It's the country's chance to rise up and raise the bar.
it is called the "Phoenix from the flames", I believe it comes from Chinese mythology.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Hey DB, what does your hubby have to say about all this? How are his sisters doing? Hope they are safe and well.
During the first couple of days he was "meh", Mubarak will squash the demonstrations in a week. Nothing will come of this.
Then when things got huge he was getting excited but that was countered by the inability to contact his sisters.
Now he's pissed. He wouldn't even look at the tv before he left for work. Now mind you, we are also dealing with almost a total of 25 inches of snow which is now turning to ice on the streets so he's not been in the best of moods since he's the main shoveler
His sisters are in a safe place thank you God and have food and money.
Politically they are torn. He wants him out, they want him to stay. I can't wrap my head around it other than the fact that they are really really really scared. All I can do is pray that they stay safe and this all ends soon. I wish I could just scoop them up and coddle them right now - they are so very sweet and innocent and don't deserve to be living in this wreck. No one does but of course I feel for them especially.
I just hope this violent patch ends quickly and really wish the military would sh!t or get off the pot already and pick a side.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Yeah, I thought I left helicopters circling over head all night behind when I left Walthamstow for here - last night was like a throw back in time. Sunday nights was top favourite for circling in East London.
There are supporters on both sides for sure. From looking at what people on FB write who do support him, a lot of it seems to be rooted in fear. Egyptians don't have a lot of faith in their own people.
I think Egyptians should be incredibly proud of themselves, I was unbelievably impressed when my neighbour fetched up with a walkie-talkie on Saturday night and explained the control room set up and the next day passed by with a sheet of nearly 30 emergency contact names and numbers and addresses, and the number of a doctor who lives here.
I was impressed at the speed at which they organized patrols and things - ok they were a bit jittery Saturday night and there were a couple of little incidents, but they sorted themselves out quickly. Also, seeing folk picking up their own litter, being proud of their surroundings.
Egyptians CAN organize, and they can do it very well. I hope this is a learning they take forward into whatever their future brings.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I am just watching (and not commenting on!) a FB discussion between some well educated, middle-class Egyptian women with management/professional jobs covering the pro, the anti- to the gory end, and the "anti - but can we end the demos" range of opinions showing that in one 'social stratum' the whole range is covered.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I think the egyptian people have an incredible amount of courage. My husband for the first time in recent days has been very outspoken about his true feeling about whats been happening here in last thirty years. He had a lot bottled up inside, and the stopper of the bottle has finally opened.
Posted by marydot (Member # 15932) on :
For those's who cant get a live feed.
You can watch it here BBC
BBC Live Feed. Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
u know its funny that the forigners that perminantly live in egypt says its not their business. hell yea it is ur business it is now yr country reguardless of where yr from.. u live there now....they are now yr people too
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Gawd I can't stand Cameron. Obama made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck yesterday. Our PM is like a flick in the face with a wet pilchard.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I know state tv lies but some stuff so ridiculous! They are saying that most of protesters are foreigners and two germans trying to smuggle in weapons to protestors.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: u know its funny that the forigners that perminantly live in egypt says its not their business. hell yea it is ur business it is now yr country reguardless of where yr from.. u live there now....they are now yr people too
It's not about it not being our business - but right now, with tales of foreign interference going about, foreigners poking their oars in (unless it's presidents or whatever) could only lend evidence to those rumours and prolong the situation.
Just imagine if me (big blonde Johnny Foreigner) and a few more like me were spotted in the middle of any of those crowds. What political capital could be made of that?
It's because it's our country now that we're staying put (unless it would be utter foolishness to continue) - we chose to live here.
It's because it's our country now that we can appreciate that the situation is absolutely NOT as black and white as others outside seem to think it is and strange as it may seem there are people, Egyptian people, who genuinely support both sides.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
And to add to that, while I was posting that, Adelly has posted that local tv is blaming foreigners for bringing in weapons.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama:
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: u know its funny that the forigners that perminantly live in egypt says its not their business. hell yea it is ur business it is now yr country reguardless of where yr from.. u live there now....they are now yr people too
It's not about it not being our business - but right now, with tales of foreign interference going about, foreigners poking their oars in (unless it's presidents or whatever) could only lend evidence to those rumours and prolong the situation.
Just imagine if me (big blonde Johnny Foreigner) and a few more like me were spotted in the middle of any of those crowds. What political capital could be made of that?
It's because it's our country now that we're staying put (unless it would be utter foolishness to continue) - we chose to live here.
It's because it's our country now that we can appreciate that the situation is absolutely NOT as black and white as others outside seem to think it is and strange as it may seem there are people, Egyptian people, who genuinely support both sides.
well i dont mean go out in the thick of it all hun..thats crazy u could be spotted from space in the crowd with blonde hair lolol...but its ashame that a peaceful protest was disrupeted into violence.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
My husband didnt want me protesting, because he didnt think it was safe at any point. I just read at fb page that an egyptian christian woman was raped on kasr el nil bridge. Dont know if its true.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
Anderson Cooper and his crew were attacked by supporters of Hosni Mubarak in Cairo on Wednesday. CNN's Steve Brusk tweeted that Cooper was punched in the head ten times.
The incident came as pro-Mubarak supporters attacked protesters calling for the Egyptian president to step down. Speaking on "American Morning" after the attack, Cooper said that he and his crew had been trying to go to a neutral zone between the two groups.
"We never got that far," he said. "We were set upon by pro-Mubarak supporters punching us in the head." Cooper said that he and the crew tried to escape, but that the crowd only grew: "the crowd kept growing, kept throwing punches, kicks...suddenly a young man would look at you and punch you in the face."
A CNN update said that "no one was seriously hurt" in the attack.
A pro-Mubarak group also roughed up a Washington Post editor on Wednesday. video
Alright, thats it the gay men in my neighborhood is going to be so pissed at Mubarak from now on.
If those pro-oppression supporters disfigured their fav jerkoff poster boy they are in for deep ****.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Theres no need to make that kind of comment.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: Theres no need to make that kind of comment.
If you don't like it then make a compliant to the moderator.
Last I checked, you didn't own the forum.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
No but i think u are being rude. Why?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: No but i think u are being rude. Why?
Its rude to tell someone what to do on a forum, when advice or "orders" wasn't asked for.
you are you to tell someone else what to post, say or do? Are you Mubarak?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
ignore her adelly, it's her way, anything to ruin a topic.
Hubby is now watching Dream channel with Amr Sharai??? possibly spelt wrong but he is a blind guy something to do with music I think. He is saying same as I am telling hubby from what I see here and both the guy and hubby have been moved to tears. I am seeing fear and elation here.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
My husband loves classical music.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Egypt's Mubarak Likely to Retain Vast Wealth
Mubarak Family May Have as Much as $70 Billion Stashed Away, Experts Estimate
"Amaney Jamal, a political science professor at Princeton, said those estimates are comparable with the vast wealth of leaders in other Gulf countries.
"The business ventures from his military and government service accumulated to his personal wealth," said Jamal. "There was a lot of corruption in this regime and stifling of public resources for personal gain."
Jamal said that Mubarak's assets are most likely in banks outside of Egypt, possibly in the United Kingdom and Switzerland.
"This is the pattern of other Middle Eastern dictators so their wealth will not be taken during a transition, she said. "These leaders plan on this."
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Money stolen from egyptian people.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Hubby is telling me now estimated over 1000 dead. Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Dead or injured? They are saying 150 injured and 3 dead
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
sorry adelly, misunderstood hubby. over 1000 injured, not sure how many dead.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I think they confirmed 3
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
Folks, I've heard on Al-jazeera that there are trucks with police dogs heading for midan al-tahrir. Others say that there are a lot of rumors of an imminent attack on the square, but that those are rumors to scare the people in the square into leaving and scare those planning to join them from doing so. Can anybody please confirm or deny, I'm leaning to the latter view, that it's a scaremongering tactic.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis: Folks, I've heard on Al-jazeera that there are trucks with police dogs heading for midan al-tahrir. Others say that there are a lot of rumors of an imminent attack on the square, but that those are rumors to scare the people in the square into leaving and scare those planning to join them from doing so. Can anybody please confirm or deny, I'm leaning to the latter view, that it's a scaremongering tactic.
Unfortunately its probable.
Any news on whether the Army will step in to protect the pro-democracy protestors?
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis: Folks, I've heard on Al-jazeera that there are trucks with police dogs heading for midan al-tahrir. Others say that there are a lot of rumors of an imminent attack on the square, but that those are rumors to scare the people in the square into leaving and scare those planning to join them from doing so. Can anybody please confirm or deny, I'm leaning to the latter view, that it's a scaremongering tactic.
Unfortunately its probable.
Any news on whether the Army will step in to protect the pro-democracy protestors?
Another caller to Al-jazeera refuted what the first caller said about the police dogs, or at least shed doubt on it. He says that there are many people in the square and they are capable of stoping any attack. I think we're getting into a different territory now, that of psychological warfare, scaremongering and intimidation. Nobody can guess what will happen next. Will the army take sides?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I think the army took sides when they said this was a legitimate protest against baba Mu saying it was illegal.
Not hearing anything about police dogs and trucks but some amazing photography here
Thugs planning for another attack soon. More numbers joining with knives. Police dogs there.. Confirmed #egypt #jan25
twitter
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Thugs planning for another attack soon. More numbers joining with knives. Police dogs there.. Confirmed #egypt #jan25
twitter
I'm really confused, what to believe. It appears there's a strategy of spreading fear by calling news channels and reporting incorrect news. I think we should only take the news from trusted sources. I mean people you personally know or have been following for a long time and deem to be truthful.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Thugs planning for another attack soon. More numbers joining with knives. Police dogs there.. Confirmed #egypt #jan25
twitter
I'm really confused, what to believe. It appears there's a strategy of spreading fear by calling news channels and reporting incorrect news. I think we should only take the news from trusted sources. I mean people you personally know or have been following for a long time and deem to be truthful.
Has Mubarak repealed Emergency Law?
Or did the parliment do so?
Is Emergency law still in effect?
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
great pictures in the NY times Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Thugs planning for another attack soon. More numbers joining with knives. Police dogs there.. Confirmed #egypt #jan25
twitter
I'm really confused, what to believe. It appears there's a strategy of spreading fear by calling news channels and reporting incorrect news. I think we should only take the news from trusted sources. I mean people you personally know or have been following for a long time and deem to be truthful.
Has Mubarak repealed Emergency Law?
Or did the parliment do so?
Is Emergency law still in effect?
ROFL, yes probably, there is a curfew too so no one out in the streets at all really Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
"Jews recount at Passover their own history with the Pharaoh of Egypt - sympathies to the current Egyptian struggle run deep....
To watch hundreds of thousands of Egyptians able to throw off the chains of oppression and the legacy of a totalitarian regime that consistently jailed, tortured or murdered its opponents so overtly that most people were cowed into silence, is to remember that the spark of God continues to flourish no matter how long oppressive regimes manage to keep themselves in power, and that ultimately the yearning for freedom and democracy cannot be totally stamped out no matter how cruel and sophisticated the elites of wealth, power and military might appear to be.....
... We hope that Egyptians will hear the news that they have strong support from many in the Jewish world. We are not waffling like Obama - we want the overthrow of Mubarak, the freeing of all political prisoners, the redistribution of wealth in a fair way, trials for those who perpetrated torture and other forms of injustice, and the democratisation of all aspects of Egyptian life. "
Very nice article, Worth the read IMHO. Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Thugs planning for another attack soon. More numbers joining with knives. Police dogs there.. Confirmed #egypt #jan25
twitter
I'm really confused, what to believe. It appears there's a strategy of spreading fear by calling news channels and reporting incorrect news. I think we should only take the news from trusted sources. I mean people you personally know or have been following for a long time and deem to be truthful.
Has Mubarak repealed Emergency Law?
Or did the parliment do so?
Is Emergency law still in effect?
ROFL, yes probably, there is a curfew too so no one out in the streets at all really
Would death be the only way to contain your ongoing wretchedness?
The regime is implying that the pro-regime protesters are there on their own merit.
It would be logical for the emergency law to be repealed in order to enforce the appearance that the pro-regime protesters are in the free and clear.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
"Jews recount at Passover their own history with the Pharaoh of Egypt - sympathies to the current Egyptian struggle run deep....
To watch hundreds of thousands of Egyptians able to throw off the chains of oppression and the legacy of a totalitarian regime that consistently jailed, tortured or murdered its opponents so overtly that most people were cowed into silence, is to remember that the spark of God continues to flourish no matter how long oppressive regimes manage to keep themselves in power, and that ultimately the yearning for freedom and democracy cannot be totally stamped out no matter how cruel and sophisticated the elites of wealth, power and military might appear to be.....
... We hope that Egyptians will hear the news that they have strong support from many in the Jewish world. We are not waffling like Obama - we want the overthrow of Mubarak, the freeing of all political prisoners, the redistribution of wealth in a fair way, trials for those who perpetrated torture and other forms of injustice, and the democratisation of all aspects of Egyptian life. "
Very nice article, Worth the read IMHO.
Refusenick blogs have been stating this for years.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
bencnn benwedeman Continued gunfire from #Tahrir #jan25 #Egypt 2 minutes ago evanchill Evan Hill by bencnn Automatic heavy caliber gunfire 75 meters or so away, army likely keeping people at bay. So much gunfire 3 minutes ago RamyRaoof Ramy Raoof by bencnn we just knew that one of the demonstrators just died from live bullet shot by the NDP thugs here in Tahrir Square. #Egypt #Jan25 6 minutes ago IvanCNN Ivan Watson by bencnn Half dozen+ rounds of gunfire very close to Tahrir square. 5 minutes ago bencnn benwedeman Tanks in front of State TV revving up sudden activity, two ambulances passing by lots of gunfire from #Tahrir #Jan25 #Egypt
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
6am and heavy gunfire.. whats happening?
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
cnn announced that in 3 min after cerfew all americans in egypt that want out get to the air port and u will get a free flight back here...they are advising all americans to leave egypt.npw there is an order for all americans to leave egypt
Travel Warning U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE Bureau of Consular Affairs Print Email Egypt February 01, 2011 On February 1, the Department of State ordered the departure of all non-emergency U.S. government personnel and family members from Egypt. This replaces the Travel Warning for Egypt dated January 28, 2011. The U.S. Department of State continues to recommend that U.S. citizens avoid travel to Egypt at this time. U.S. citizens should consider leaving Egypt as soon as they can safely do so, due to ongoing political and social unrest. Large-scale demonstrations with the potential for violence continue in several areas of Cairo, Alexandria, and other parts of the country, and rail and road travel has been disrupted between cities, and between city centers and airports. Disruptions in communications, including internet service, also continue. The Government of Egypt may also disrupt mobile phone service during future demonstrations. The Government of Egypt modified the curfew times and locations; now 3:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. throughout Egypt until further notice. U.S. citizens should obey curfew orders and remain indoors during curfew hours.
U.S. citizens currently in Egypt should monitor international and local media to stay abreast of announcements from the embassy. Due to the fluid nature of the situation and the volume of phone calls to the embassy, U.S. citizens should not wait for a reply from the embassy or the Department of State before traveling to the nearest airport. Cairo airport is open and operating, but flights may be delayed or cancelled, and transport to the airport is disrupted, due to the protests. Travelers should remain in contact with their airlines or tour operators concerning flight schedules, and arrange to arrive at the airport well before curfew hours.
The U.S. Department of State is making arrangements to provide charter air transportation to safe haven locations in Europe of U.S. citizens and eligible dependents who wish to depart Egypt. This assistance will be provided on a reimbursable basis, as required by U.S. law. U.S. citizens who travel on U.S. Government-arranged transport will be expected to make their own onward travel plans from the safe haven location; currently: Larnaca, Cyprus; Istanbul, Turkey; Frankfurt, Germany; and Athens, Greece. Flights to evacuation points began departing Cairo on Monday, January 31. There will be a limited number of seats available on future evacuation flights. Priority will be given to persons with medical emergencies or severe medical conditions. Persons interested in departing Egypt via U.S. Government-arranged chartered transportation should proceed to one of the airports in Cairo, Alexandria, Luxor, or Aswan.
U.S. citizens with a valid passport wishing to depart from Cairo may proceed to the Cairo International Airport Hajj Terminal (Terminal 4) as soon as possible after the morning end of the curfew on February 3. For U.S. citizens attempting to depart via Alexandria, airports are all open and there are commercial flights available to U.S. citizens. If traveling from Luxor, Alexandria, or Aswan airport, be sure to have a confirmed ticket and know the terminal you need before traveling to the airport. There are two operational airports in Alexandria:
Primary airport: Borg El Arab - two terminals:
One newer where commercial flights are departing. Older terminal where chartered flights are departing and some commercial flights. Secondary airport: El Nouzha – older, under reconstruction
Passengers must have a ticket in hand, or arrange to purchase a ticket via cell phone or internet. Tickets are NOT being sold at the airport.
Immediate family members (spouses and children) who are not U.S. citizens must be documented for entry into the safe haven country and/or the United States, if that is their final destination. Travelers who are not U.S. citizens but are accompanying a U.S. citizen immediate family member (child, spouse, parent of minor child) should have a valid passport. U.S. citizens seeking evacuation should be prepared for a substantial wait at the airport. Travelers are advised to bring food, water, diapers, and other necessary toiletries with them to the airport. Travelers will not be able to choose their destination, and they are permitted only one piece of luggage per person. Travelers may not bring pets.
In the event of demonstrations, U.S. citizens in Egypt should remain in their residences or hotels until the demonstrations subside. Security forces may block off the area around the U.S. Embassy during demonstrations, and U.S. citizens should not attempt to come to the U.S. Embassy or the Tahrir Square area during that time. Demonstrations have degenerated on several occasions into violent clashes between police and protesters, resulting in injuries and extensive property damage. While demonstrations have not been directed toward Westerners, U.S. citizens are urged to remain alert to local security developments and to be vigilant regarding their personal security. The U.S. Department of State strongly urges U.S. citizens to avoid all demonstrations, as even peaceful ones can quickly become unruly and a foreigner could become a target of harassment or worse. If caught unexpectedly near a demonstration, U.S. citizens should obey instructions from police and leave the area as quickly as possible. U.S. citizens resident in Egypt should monitor local news broadcasts and U.S. citizen visitors should ask tour guides and hotel officials about any planned demonstrations in the locations they plan to visit. U.S. citizens should carry identification and a cell phone that works in Egypt.
The U.S. Embassy will be open only for emergency services to U.S. citizens until further notice. As always, any change to Embassy hours will be posted on the Embassy website. Family members of U.S. citizens in Egypt may also enroll them in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP). U.S. citizens in Egypt, or their loved ones, may contact the U.S. Department of State and the U.S. Embassy in Cairo via email, or at 1-202-501-4444. Please follow the directions on the Embassy website for all other consular inquiries.
Jews recount at Passover their own history with the Pharaoh of Egypt - sympathies to the current Egyptian struggle run deep....
The Jews won't be so sympathetic if the Muslim Brotherhood gets into power.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Casualties increase the number of dead as of this minute is 5 for Thursday morning only. Mostly a result of a pre-dawn live ammunition assault by Pro-M thugs.
The good news is that the pro-democracy protestors have regained Tahrir Square and are increasing in numbers.
AJ Live
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Wathing footage of dawn scene in which dead bodies are being dragged off the street.
Sickening.
Literally dragged by their feet. One person dragging one foot and another dragging the second foot.
AJ (Dawn footage of Tahrir Square)
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Please tweet and pressure your governments, voice your outrage at the atrocities commited by Mubarak thugs against pro-democracy protestors, especially at what is happening in Tahrir Square (pronounced – Tah Rear)
These are verified twitter accounts, but I am sure there are accounts for every other Western Nation:
1 tweet can lead to 1000 and hopefully 1 million and that can make a difference.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Egyptian Heroine: “We Do Not Trust a Govt. That Sends Thugs to Kill Us.” February 02, 2011| News | James Bovard
I just listened to a live interview on Al Jazeera English with a 23-year-old woman in Tahrir Square. The pro-Mubarak forces are apparently pounding the anti-Mubarak demonstators in the Square with gunfire this night.
The Al-Jazeera host asked why she and other demonstrators refused to accept Mubarak’s promise to hold elections.
Salma Al-tasi replied: “We do not trust a government that sends thugs to kill us.”
She has more sense than the vast majority of modern political philosophers. And she has more gumption than the vast majority of American political commentators. (I am guessing at the spelling of her name. If anyone knows the correct spelling [the interview concluded at 4:32 a.m. Egyptian time], please advise and I’ll correct it.]
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: [qb] Thugs planning for another attack soon. More numbers joining with knives. Police dogs there.. Confirmed #egypt #jan25
twitter
I'm really confused, what to believe. It appears there's a strategy of spreading fear by calling news channels and reporting incorrect news. I think we should only take the news from trusted sources. I mean people you personally know or have been following for a long time and deem to be truthful.
Has Mubarak repealed Emergency Law?
Or did the parliment do so?
Is Emergency law still in effect?
ROFL, yes probably, there is a curfew too so no one out in the streets at all really
Would death be the only way to contain your ongoing wretchedness?
The regime is implying that the pro-regime protesters are there on their own merit.
You are still listening and believing what the brutes tell you? After all that's happening?
quote:It would be logical for the emergency law to be repealed in order to enforce the appearance that the pro-regime protesters are in the free and clear.
right now in Cairo and other parts, there is no law, surely you can see that?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Egyptian Heroine: “We Do Not Trust a Govt. That Sends Thugs to Kill Us.” February 02, 2011| News | James Bovard
I just listened to a live interview on Al Jazeera English with a 23-year-old woman in Tahrir Square. The pro-Mubarak forces are apparently pounding the anti-Mubarak demonstators in the Square with gunfire this night.
The Al-Jazeera host asked why she and other demonstrators refused to accept Mubarak’s promise to hold elections.
Salma Al-tasi replied: “We do not trust a government that sends thugs to kill us.”
She has more sense than the vast majority of modern political philosophers. And she has more gumption than the vast majority of American political commentators. (I am guessing at the spelling of her name. If anyone knows the correct spelling [the interview concluded at 4:32 a.m. Egyptian time], please advise and I’ll correct it.]
vw, please when posting articles here about THIS situation, please give a link, please, just on this if nothing else.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Anyone watching actual Egyptian news or papers in arabic, how widespread amongst Egyptians is the view that yesterday was government-backed?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Hubby was watching arabic tv last night which confirmed what I was telling him. He did say it may not be M himself but his minions, which is the same to me.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Egyptian state TV anchor resigns over demo coverage
CAIRO Feb 1 (Reuters) - An Egyptian news anchor has resigned from state television after 20 years for what she said was a "lack of ethical standards" in its coverage of Egypt's mass protests calling for the ousting of the president.
Egypt's many state channels played down the protests in the first days, but gave them 24-hour coverage from Friday. Soha el-Nakash said she presented five programmes for state news channel Nile News on Jan. 26, the second day of the protests, and was dismayed the streets of Cairo were portrayed as calm when in fact thousands of people were demonstrating.
"I have decided I will not go back again," she told Reuters on Tuesday. "I left because the state TV coverage of the protests lacked the minimum level of ethical standards. "During my breaks, I went to join my colleagues who were gathered around TV screens watching other news channels and we all saw ongoing violent mass protests rallying across Egypt," she said.
Qatar-based satellite channel Al Jazeera was ordered by Egypt's Information Ministry on Sunday to shut down its operations in the country, and later in the day its signal to some parts of the Middle East was cut. Egypt has often harassed the Qatar-based channel since it began in 1996, setting off a revolution in Arab media in the face of state-controlled information, but it had never before tried to shut down its operations completely.
At least 1 million people rallied across Egypt on Tuesday clamouring for President Hosni Mubarak to give up power. (Reporting by Saif Eldin Hamdan; Writing by Yasmine Saleh; Editing by Alison Williams)
Says a lot of Egypt State Tv, when even Egypt State Tv Anchor of 20 years quits and decides to watch new on other channels.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Anyone watching actual Egyptian news or papers in arabic, how widespread amongst Egyptians is the view that yesterday was government-backed?
حصل الدستور الأصلي على معلومات مؤكدة من مصادر موثوقة تكشف تفاصيل الخطة التي شارك فيها جمال مبارك نجل الرئيس من أجل إطلاق مجموعة من البلطجية على المتظاهرين والمعتصمين بميدان التحرير، وهي الخطة التي تم تطبيقها يوم الأربعاء وتسببت في مقتل وإصابة ما يقرب من 1000 متظاهر حتى كتابة هذه السطور.
وقالت المصادر أن جمال مبارك الذي لايزال يشغل منصب أمين لجنة السياسات بالحزب الوطني حتى الآن، قد اجتمع مع كل من صفوت الشريف الأمين العام للحزب الوطني وماجد الشربيني أمين تنظيم الحزب الذي حل بدلا من أحمد عز، ورجلي الأعمال إبراهيم كامل ومحمد أبو العينين، إضافة إلى النائب رجب هلال حميدة، وحسن عبد الرحمن رئيس جهاز مباحث أمن الدولة ممثلا لوزارة الداخلية.
وأن ذلك الاجتماع عقد صباح الثلاثاء، وفيه تم الاتفاق على خطة فض المتظاهرين المعارضين المتمركزين في ميدان التحرير منذ الجمعة 28 يناير وتقضي الخطة بالهجوم على المتظاهرين عبر ثلاث فئات، الأولى رجال الأمن المركزي بملابس مدنية، والثانية موظفي بعض شركات رجال الأعمال الذين تم تعليق صرف رواتبهم لحين المشاركة في الهجمة والثالثة مجموعة من البلطجية الذين تم الاستعانة بهم سابقا في الانتخابات البرلمانية الأخيرة.
وتم الاتفاق على أن ساعة الصفر والبدء في تنفيذ الخطة ستكون عقب انتهاء كلمة الرئيس التليفزيونية التي سيلقيها مساء الثلاثاء ليعلن عما وصفه بنيته عدم الترشح في الانتخابات القادمة، وهو ما تحقق بالفعل، إذ خرجت مجموعة من الجماهير لتهتف باسم الرئيس مباشرة عقب خطابه، قبل أن يتطور ذلك في يوم الأربعاء إلى هجوم على المتظاهرين باستخدام الهروات والعصي والسيوف والحجارة وصولا إلى قنابل المولوتوف والرصاص الحي، ومن قبلها اقتحام الاعتصام بالخيول والجمال في سابقة لم تشهدها أي دولة في العصر الحديث تقريبا.
وقالت المصادر أن ثمة غضب شديد يكتنف جمال مبارك من تداعيات ثورة 25 يناير، لاسيما وأن شبابها يحرز نجاحا وتقدما كل يوم على عكس موقف نظام مبارك الذي يتراجع كل يوم، وكانت هذه الخطة إحدى المحاولات الأخيرة لانقاذ الموقف الذي يبدو أنه-بحسب المصدر- بات من المستحيل تحسينه بالفعل.
- الدستور
(gornaly is an Egyptian News, article printed in dustoor (Egyptian Newspaper), and posted in gornaly)
They basically wrote that [b[Gamal Mubarak, son of Hosni Mubarak and members of the NDP, orchestrated the thugs against unarmed pro-democracy protestors yesterday. [/b]
Gamal Mubarak and NDP leaders met on tuesday and made a plan to breakup the protests in Tahrir square.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Thanks exiiled. He is just continually insulting the Egyptian people over and over now.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
كتب – جبريل محمد:
بدأت الثورة المصرية الرافضة لنظام مبارك في مطلع يومها العاشر، والذي بدأ فيه النظام محاولة استعادة الأمور، تتحول إلى بركة من الدماء، خاصة أن النظام لجأ إلى طريقته القديمة باستعمال البلطجية لسحق الانتفاضة الشعبية في ميدان التحرير.
وقالت صحيفة "جارديان" اليوم الخميس في تقرير بعنوان "الثورة المصرية تصبح بشعة بعد محاولة مبارك للعودة" إن سماء ميدان التحرير أمطرت خلال الساعات القليلة الماضية على المتظاهرين الحجارة وزجاجات المولوتوف، والرصاص الحي، وسط تقارير تفيد بسقوط نحو خمسة قتلى، ومئات الجرحى.
فمع بزوغ فجر اليوم التاسع للمظاهرات – بحسب الصحيفة- كانت هناك مشاهد غير عادية في وسط القاهرة حيث ظهر متظاهرون مؤيدون للنظام، وبدءوا في الاشتباك مع المتظاهرين المناهضين للحكومة، وتبادلوا ضربات بقضبان الحديد والعصي والحجارة.
وأوضحت الصحفية إن مؤيدي مبارك دخلوا الميدان بالجمال والخيول لسحق المتظاهرين إلا أنهم (المتظاهرين) القوا القبض على عدد كبير منهم وتبين أنهم تابعين لجهاز الشرطة، وقد ألقى المؤيدون لمبارك زجاجات المولوتوف على المتحف المصري التاريخي الأمر الذي دفع الجيش لمحاولة ردعهم.
ونقلت الصحيفة عن الكاتبة المصرية أهداف سويف قولها إن "النظام أطلق العنان لبلطجيته، تماما كما فعل خلال الانتخابات الماضية لترهيب الناخبين".
وأضافت : لقد "رأيت من نافذتي الحشد يزحف باتجاه جسر 15 مايو، واستغربت لكون أنصار مبارك أكثر تنظيما، واقل تحضرا، بضجيجهم وهراواتهم وحركلاتهم، إضافة إالى اللافتات المكتوبة بإتقان مهني".
وتابعت:"أنصار مبارك كان لديهم طبعا عصي وسكاكين وسيوف وحجارة وسلاسل وكلاب وشاحنات... والجيش يقف جانبا ولا يحرك ساكنا".
وتساءلت الصحيفة من هم الذين يعبرون عن دعمهم للرئيس بإلقاء زجاجات حارقة ومزهريات من أعلى البنايات على رؤوس النساء والأطفال، والذين يريدون فرض الاستقرار بكسر الرؤوس بحجارتهم والسيقان بالسلاسل؟ فكلما اعتقل الشباب المتظاهرون واحدا منهم اكتشفوا من هويته أنه تابع لقوات الأمن، وسلموه إلى الجيش".
I'll translate this bit, feel free to translate all of it in google:
وأوضحت الصحفية إن مؤيدي مبارك دخلوا الميدان بالجمال والخيول لسحق المتظاهرين إلا أنهم (المتظاهرين) القوا القبض على عدد كبير منهم وتبين أنهم تابعين لجهاز الشرطة،
-The newspaper clarified that Mubarak supporters entered Tahrir Square with camels and horses to crush demonstrators.
Demonstrators however arrested a large number of them and found out they belonged to the police.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
look foreign journalists
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Pro-Democracy protesters are heading to Tahrir Square with food and medicine. They urge the media to continue reporting of what is happening in there.
AJE
Notice they are urging the media to continue reporting, and you know why? Because Mubarak thugs are beating and physically assaulting journalists, their crews and equipment. Some have said they are fearful for their lives.
Also if you have twitter, a few tweets of encouragement to their accounts would be cool, especially to reporters that don't have too many resources. A few words of encouragement will go a long way. Something like thank you, good job, I know your life is in danger, becareful, and please continue doing the good work.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Dear All—
PEOPLE IN TEHREER SQUARE, CAIRO ARE IN DIRE NEED OF IMMEDIATE MEDICAL SUPPORT, BLOOD DONATIONS AND SUPPLIES:
Please forward to friends, family and advocates in Egypt. Get word out to all those who have access to supplies and can help donate, distribute or deliver supplies. If you are in Egypt, please consider helping.
As of Thursday Feb 3rd morning, five people have died and volunteer doctors are running out of medical supplies to tend to the hundreds of wounded. We are coordinating efforts to get supplies to doctors in field hospitals and centers.
MEDICAL SUPPLIES NEEDED: cotton, dressings, betadine, suture kits, analgesics, to handle the wounded in field.
These supplies need to be delivered to Tehrir Square, to the makeshift hospital behind Hardees in the square. This is on the side that is protected by the military and so it should be safe to deliver items.
HOSPITALS & EMERGENCY CLINICS THAT NEEDS SUPPORT
Tehrir Square (makeshift hospital behind Hardees)- Dr. Amany Sadek, Mostashfa el Maydany - 20 10 65 63 603
The following are hospitals are have blood banks that are asking for immediate donations:
* Blood needed at Kasr El Aini urgently. Call: Tel: 23654060 * El Nozha Tel : 22658559 * Ain Shams * El Zeraeen (in Dokki): 33375579 – 33377670 * Swiss blood bank in Dokki: 37620202 – 37613117 * Kasr El Ainy * Shabrawishy: 33384684 – 37604341 * Wadie El Nile
FOOD AND WATER:
Requests have been made for food and water for people in Tahreer Square. Please take food/water to distribute to others.
PERSONAL ACCOUNT FROM A DOCTOR IN TAHREER SQUARE:
“Tired of the six nights I spent in Tahreer, all the gas bombs that was thrown at me, the fear of being shot by police thugs, the anxiety that is about to kill me, & believes all could've sent me home. If it weren't for the blood of the finest youth of Egypt that covered my hands last Friday, those who died in front of my eyes while I stood helpless bandaging their live bullet wounds with kleenex and plastic bags' shreds.”
TO COORDINATE SUPPLIES:
In EGYPT: Dr. Amany Sadek from Mostashfa el Maydany at Phone: 20 10 65 63 603 or Dr. Assem at Phone: 002-014-66-11-44-0 (at a field office in Tehrir square behind Hardees).
If outside Egypt: Please email eeshmawy@gmail.com or hazami.barmada@gmail.com to coordinate connecting you to the right people.
Also if you have twitter, a few tweets of encouragement to their accounts would be cool, especially to reporters that don't have too many resources. A few words of encouragement will go a long way. Something like thank you, good job, I know your life is in danger, becareful, and please continue doing the good work.
very true
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
Congrats to all ES´ers for this supporting and informing thread.For once we all can see that ES is not that bad or dead at all. Keep up the good team work!
For the moment,lets all continue with our prayers for the Egyptian people and those living there, and hope that the road to recontruction,human rights and freedom for Egypt soon starts to see the light.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Amen to that sash!
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
My heart breaks and my stomach twists at the site of all those injured in Egypt.
I am in England. What can i do to help?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
PM Shafiq Threatened To Resign Over The "Paid thugs" That Were Sent To Tahrir
Here is my brief translation but please by all accounts feel free to translate yourselves in Google.
Prime Minister Ahmed Shafiq strongly disagreed with Hosni Mubarak and Vice President Omar Sulayman over what transpired Wednesday when paid thugs attacked demonstrators in Tahrir Square.
The high-level source said that Safiq threatened to resign from his position because he would be the first person to be blamed for injuries and deaths.
Mubarak and Omar Sulayman don't want Shafiq to resign because his resignation would would mark the end of the regime.
**So basically the Prime Minister wants to save his own skin.
Source: Egyptian Newspaper Dostoor
علم الدستور الأصلي من مصادر رفيعة أن الفريق أحمد شفيق رئيس الوزراء على خلاف شديد مع الرئيس مبارك وعمر سليمان نائب الرئيس بسبب ما حدث صباح الأربعاء من الدفع ببلطجية إلى قلب ميدان التحرير للاعتداء على المتظاهرين بالأسلحة البيضاء والعصي والهروات والصواعق الكهربائية في محاولة لفضهم.
وقالت مصادر رفيعة للدستور الأصلي أن الفريق أحمد شفيق هدد بتقديم استقالته من منصبه اعتراضا على ما تم لأنه سيكون أول شخص يتحمل مسئولية ماحدث من إصابات أو وفيات للمتظاهرين لاسيما وأنه قال في تصريحات تليفزيونية مساء الثلاثاء أن سلامة المتظاهرين في ميدان التحرير "على رقبته".
وأضافت المصادر أن مبارك وعمر سليمان يحاولان الضغط على شفيق لعدم تقديم استقالته لأنه لو فعل هذا سيكون إعلانا نهائيا بسقوط النظام.
yayy! they will fall apart soon, each to his own and no one wants to be up front for what will follow. dividing nicely.
Others coming from other Egyptian cities now,
BloggerSeif Ali Seif FINALLY PROTESTERS FROM OTHER CITIES HERE NOW! You have to see this, asking for ppl they know, hugging eachother near museum #Jan25 10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
this 180 sec rule is doing my head in!
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Fingers crossed
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
MM you may need to be doing a run to manchester airport if you keep offering your help.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Are trains still running? Cant find anything saying they're not but not heard the usual tooting arrivals here.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
I hear banks won't reopen until this Sunday. Did anyone find ATMs that had cash yesterday?
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: MM you may need to be doing a run to manchester airport if you keep offering your help.
Ha ha i just feel so bloody useless here. I want to help but dont know how so instead i have begun to obsess about watching. How you doing hun. I will give you a ring in a bit. Can you buy phone top ups online for your phone
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: yayy! they will fall apart soon, each to his own and no one wants to be up front for what will follow. dividing nicely.
They will fall eventually, but this is a brutal regime that is deeply intertwined. But yes, they fall and the cowards that they are, they will implicate one another.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
NOTES FROM 6th OCTOBER CITY:
OK I just got back from a foray for cash and here is my report.
Two friends collected me by car around 1030am - she is a European Johnny foreigner and her husband is Egyptian and they live near the pyramids, about 7km from me.
(1) MONEY (ATMS)
They had been to all the hotels and petrol stations they could in El Wahat Road and NO MONEY in any ATMS.
PLEASE NOTE WELL: Be careful how many times you try to use your card and get tiny amounts of money - there is a limit!!!!
So we went to 6th October City, 6th October University Street and we found one ATM that was giving money.
It said I could ask for 4000LE max. Using my Egyptian bank card (savings account) I asked for 2000LE and it gave me 20LE. I thought I had mistyped and did it again. (The ticket says 20LE dispensed so that's ok). Same thing. Then I tried 500LE and it said 'refer to bank'. My friends then tried and got no money at all, even a tiny amount. So that ATM now empty.
We went further down to a small cluster of banks in the vicinity of Khaer Zaman supermarket. No money in any.
A guy told us the only banks with any money in are Bank Cairo, Bank Masr and Ahly Bank and that even though there is an entire banking district in 6th October City, there was NO MONEY in the ATMs.
We then went further down to Housing & Development bank - and there **was** money, maximum 1000LE. I tried my card and it said I had exceeded my limit for the day despite having only taken 2 x 20LE - so I think there is a limit on the number of times you can use your card in one day (and get money). Luckily my UK credit card got me 1000LE.
So basically, ATM machines in Maadi, heliopolis and the like may have money, but is hard to come by elsewhere.
(2) Petrol (Gas)
Big queues at the benzinas. Some with no petrol at all. My friends were really keen for me to go back with them and try and have a normal social day and said they would bring me back before curfew but I said no because they had already driven 50KM on my behalf and they should preserve the petrol.
(3) Attitudes to Johnny foreigner (me)
Ok, I'm an obvious JF - big, blonde, usually taken for German. I saw about 10-12 different Egyptians this morning (obviously near the ATMs) and they were all lovely and kind. I got not a single bad vibe from any of them. They were so helpful advising us where to get the money. I know I was with an Egyptian man, but we asked him afterwards and he said absolutely there was no undercurrent or anything. However, this is NOT the case at Tahrir and stay well away from there.
(4) Shops
Khaer Zaman was open (but didn't go in as I have a stock of rice and beans to last a couple of weeks!) and I have heard Hyper1 is open (but that would have been a long way out of the way to get stuff I can live without).
A friend told me that the Metro supermarket in 6O has somehow linked itself to it's ATM machine so you can pay directly for groceries using your ATM card and without the need for cash. Don't ask me how it works, I am just relaying info.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Egyptian army 'will fire on pro-Mubarak protesters'
The Egyptian Army has moved "decisively on the side of the [anti-government] protesters" according to a retired general in Cairo.
Correspondent Jon Leyne spoke to the retired general who is in close contact with the tank crews policing the protests in Tarhir Square.
He was told that the Egyptian army was now willing to open fire on violent pro-government protesters and predicted that President Mubarak would be out of power by tomorrow.
US Under Secretary of State Nicholas Burns told John Humphrys that the "massive US aid programme" that supports the Egyptian military would be used as a tool to persuade President Mubarak to listen.
"The military is going to be the institution that defines this crisis," he said.
"I continue to believe that President Mubarak's days as leader are probably numbered".
Those are people who stood up to the regime's ruthlessness and anger and declared that they were free, and were refusing to live in the Mubarak dictatorship for one more day. That night, he showed up on TV, and gave a very emotional speech about how he intends to step down at the end of his term and how he wants to die in Egypt, the country he loved and served. To me, and to everyone else at the protests this wasn't nearly enough, for we wanted him gone now. Others started asking that we give him a chance, and that change takes time and other such poppycock. Hell, some people and family members cried when they saw his speech. People felt sorry for him for failing to be our dictator for the rest of his life and inheriting us to his Son. It was an amalgam of Stockholm syndrome coupled with slave mentality in a malevolent combination that we never saw before. And the Regime capitalized on it today.
Today, they brought back the internet, and started having people calling on TV and writing on facebook on how they support Mubarak and his call for stability and peacefull change in 8 months. They hung on to the words of the newly appointed government would never harm the protesters, whom they believe to be good patriotic youth who have a few bad apples amongst them. We started getting calls asking people to stop protesting because "we got what we wanted" and "we need the country to start working again". People were complaining that they miss their lives. That they miss going out at night, and ordering Home Delivery. That they need us to stop so they can resume whatever existence they had before all of this. All was forgiven, the past week never happened and it's time for Unity under Mubarak's rule right now.
To all of those people I say: NEVER! I am sorry that your lives and businesses are disrupted, but this wasn't caused by the Protesters. The Protesters aren't the ones who shut down the internet that has paralyzed your businesses and banks: The government did. The Protesters weren't the ones who initiated the military curfew that limited your movement and allowed goods to disappear off market shelves and gas to disappear: The government did. The Protesters weren't the ones who ordered the police to withdraw and claimed the prisons were breached and unleashed thugs that terrorized your neighborhoods: The government did. The same government that you wish to give a second chance to, as if 30 years of dictatorship and utter failure in every sector of government wasn't enough for you. The Slaves were ready to forgive their master, and blame his cruelty on those who dared to defy him in order to ensure a better Egypt for all of its citizens and their children. After all, he gave us his word, and it's not like he ever broke his promises for reform before or anything.
Then Mubarak made his move and showed them what useful idiots they all were.
You watched on TV as "Pro-Mubarak Protesters" – thugs who were paid money by NDP members by admission of High NDP officials- started attacking the peaceful unarmed protesters in Tahrir square. They attacked them with sticks, threw stones at them, brought in men riding horses and camels- in what must be the most surreal scene ever shown on TV- and carrying whips to beat up the protesters. And then the Bullets started getting fired and Molotov cocktails started getting thrown at the Anti-Mubarak Protesters as the Army standing idly by, allowing it all to happen and not doing anything about it. Dozens were killed, hundreds injured, and there was no help sent by ambulances. The Police never showed up to stop those attacking because the ones who were captured by the Anti-mubarak people had police ID's on them. They were the police and they were there to shoot and kill people and even tried to set the Egyptian Museum on Fire. The Aim was clear: Use the clashes as pretext to ban such demonstrations under pretexts of concern for public safety and order, and to prevent disunity amongst the people of Egypt. But their plans ultimately failed, by those resilient brave souls who wouldn't give up the ground they freed of Egypt, no matter how many live bullets or firebombs were hurled at them. They know, like we all do, that this regime no longer cares to put on a moderate mask. That they have shown their true nature. That Mubarak will never step down, and that he would rather burn Egypt to the ground than even contemplate that possibility.
In the meantime, State-owned and affiliated TV channels were showing coverage of Peaceful Mubarak Protests all over Egypt and showing recorded footage of Tahrir Square protest from the night before and claiming it's the situation there at the moment. Hundreds of calls by public figures and actors started calling the channels saying that they are with Mubarak, and that he is our Father and we should support him on the road to democracy. A veiled girl with a blurred face went on Mehwer TV claiming to have received funding by Americans to go to the US and took courses on how to bring down the Egyptian government through protests which were taught by Jews. She claimed that AlJazeera is lying, and that the only people in Tahrir square now were Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas. State TV started issuing statements on how the people arrested Israelis all over Cairo engaged in creating mayhem and causing chaos. For those of you who are counting this is an American-Israeli-Qatari-Muslim Brotherhood-Iranian-Hamas conspiracy. Imagine that. And MANY PEOPLE BOUGHT IT. I recall telling a friend of mine that the only good thing about what happened today was that it made clear to us who were the idiots amongst our friends. Now we know.
Now, just in case this isn't clear: This protest is not one made or sustained by the Muslim Brotherhood, it's one that had people from all social classes and religious background in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood only showed up on Tuesday, and even then they were not the majority of people there by a long shot. We tolerated them there since we won't say no to fellow Egyptians who wanted to stand with us, but neither the Muslims Brotherhood not any of the Opposition leaders have the ability to turn out one tenth of the numbers of Protesters that were in Tahrir on Tuesday. This is a revolution without leaders. Three Million individuals choosing hope instead of fear and braving death on hourly basis to keep their dream of freedom alive. Imagine that.
The End is near. I have no illusions about this regime or its leader, and how he will pluck us and hunt us down one by one till we are over and done with and 8 months from now will pay people to stage fake protests urging him not to leave power, and he will stay "because he has to acquiesce to the voice of the people". This is a losing battle and they have all the weapons, but we will continue fighting until we can't. I am heading to Tahrir right now with supplies for the hundreds injured, knowing that today the attacks will intensify, because they can't allow us to stay there come Friday, which is supposed to be the game changer. We are bringing everybody out, and we will refuse to be anything else than peaceful. If you are in Egypt, I am calling on all of you to head down to Tahrir today and Friday. It is imperative to show them that the battle for the soul of Egypt isn't over and done with. I am calling you to bring your friends, to bring medical supplies, to go and see what Mubarak's gurantees look like in real life. Egypt needs you. Be Heroes.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
I put a message on FB this am asking folk with spare credit to help me out and 3 lovely folk sent me enough for an em$ergency call and to keep internot on for a few more days.
Here is soooo quiet, the 4 others we came with evacuated this morning!!!
Helio crew just called though, fruit sellers back out, ATMs restocked and shops open. So I prob won't leave unless the march threatens to walk this way again. If the lads say I'm safe I'm safe. .
I just hope civility and humanity retsores soon, egyptians killing egyptians is so saddening.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: PM Shafiq Threatened To Resign Over The "Paid thugs" That Were Sent To Tahrir
Egypt's prime minister has apologised for the fighting between pro- and anti-government demonstrators in Cairo's Tahrir Square, which killed five people and wounded several hundred.
Ahmed Shafiq pledged to investigate the violence, calling it a "fatal error".
Pre-dawn gunfire lasted for two hours as anti-government demonstrators tried to stay in control of the square............
"This is a fatal error," Mr Shafiq told the privately-owned al-Hayat television. "When investigations reveal who is behind this crime and who allowed it to happen, I promise they will be held accountable and will be punished for what they did."
"There is no excuse whatsoever to attack peaceful protesters, and that is why I am apologising," he said, urging the protesters "to go home to help end this crisis".
Mr Mubarak has said that he will serve out his current presidential term, which ends in September, but will not run for re-election.
Posted by weirdkitty (Member # 15365) on :
Thanks for your account on money search SQ. I don't think Sam and I have many days left before we have to find an ATM. We have less than 200le now, and baby is running low on nappies, milk etc. Currently we have managed with food due to the very "local" type shop nearby. The lady there has killed, plucked and dismantled a couple of chickens for us which kept us going for a few days. I doubt the closest ATM will have any money in, and even that is over 20mins drive away. A few days ago we saw our usual supermarket on the news with thousands of protesters in front (opposite Giza zoo), so wouldn't surprise me if it was looted. I'm going to go insane if I stay in anymore though!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: From Sandmonkey, a blogger who's been active in the protests: http://www.sandmonkey.org/
Those are people who stood up to the regime's ruthlessness and anger and declared that they were free, and were refusing to live in the Mubarak dictatorship for one more day. That night, he showed up on TV, and gave a very emotional speech about how he intends to step down at the end of his term and how he wants to die in Egypt, the country he loved and served. To me, and to everyone else at the protests this wasn't nearly enough, for we wanted him gone now. Others started asking that we give him a chance, and that change takes time and other such poppycock. Hell, some people and family members cried when they saw his speech. People felt sorry for him for failing to be our dictator for the rest of his life and inheriting us to his Son. It was an amalgam of Stockholm syndrome coupled with slave mentality in a malevolent combination that we never saw before. And the Regime capitalized on it today.
Today, they brought back the internet, and started having people calling on TV and writing on facebook on how they support Mubarak and his call for stability and peacefull change in 8 months. They hung on to the words of the newly appointed government would never harm the protesters, whom they believe to be good patriotic youth who have a few bad apples amongst them. We started getting calls asking people to stop protesting because "we got what we wanted" and "we need the country to start working again". People were complaining that they miss their lives. That they miss going out at night, and ordering Home Delivery. That they need us to stop so they can resume whatever existence they had before all of this. All was forgiven, the past week never happened and it's time for Unity under Mubarak's rule right now.
To all of those people I say: NEVER! I am sorry that your lives and businesses are disrupted, but this wasn't caused by the Protesters. The Protesters aren't the ones who shut down the internet that has paralyzed your businesses and banks: The government did. The Protesters weren't the ones who initiated the military curfew that limited your movement and allowed goods to disappear off market shelves and gas to disappear: The government did. The Protesters weren't the ones who ordered the police to withdraw and claimed the prisons were breached and unleashed thugs that terrorized your neighborhoods: The government did. The same government that you wish to give a second chance to, as if 30 years of dictatorship and utter failure in every sector of government wasn't enough for you. The Slaves were ready to forgive their master, and blame his cruelty on those who dared to defy him in order to ensure a better Egypt for all of its citizens and their children. After all, he gave us his word, and it's not like he ever broke his promises for reform before or anything.
Then Mubarak made his move and showed them what useful idiots they all were.
You watched on TV as "Pro-Mubarak Protesters" – thugs who were paid money by NDP members by admission of High NDP officials- started attacking the peaceful unarmed protesters in Tahrir square. They attacked them with sticks, threw stones at them, brought in men riding horses and camels- in what must be the most surreal scene ever shown on TV- and carrying whips to beat up the protesters. And then the Bullets started getting fired and Molotov cocktails started getting thrown at the Anti-Mubarak Protesters as the Army standing idly by, allowing it all to happen and not doing anything about it. Dozens were killed, hundreds injured, and there was no help sent by ambulances. The Police never showed up to stop those attacking because the ones who were captured by the Anti-mubarak people had police ID's on them. They were the police and they were there to shoot and kill people and even tried to set the Egyptian Museum on Fire. The Aim was clear: Use the clashes as pretext to ban such demonstrations under pretexts of concern for public safety and order, and to prevent disunity amongst the people of Egypt. But their plans ultimately failed, by those resilient brave souls who wouldn't give up the ground they freed of Egypt, no matter how many live bullets or firebombs were hurled at them. They know, like we all do, that this regime no longer cares to put on a moderate mask. That they have shown their true nature. That Mubarak will never step down, and that he would rather burn Egypt to the ground than even contemplate that possibility.
In the meantime, State-owned and affiliated TV channels were showing coverage of Peaceful Mubarak Protests all over Egypt and showing recorded footage of Tahrir Square protest from the night before and claiming it's the situation there at the moment. Hundreds of calls by public figures and actors started calling the channels saying that they are with Mubarak, and that he is our Father and we should support him on the road to democracy. A veiled girl with a blurred face went on Mehwer TV claiming to have received funding by Americans to go to the US and took courses on how to bring down the Egyptian government through protests which were taught by Jews. She claimed that AlJazeera is lying, and that the only people in Tahrir square now were Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas. State TV started issuing statements on how the people arrested Israelis all over Cairo engaged in creating mayhem and causing chaos. For those of you who are counting this is an American-Israeli-Qatari-Muslim Brotherhood-Iranian-Hamas conspiracy. Imagine that. And MANY PEOPLE BOUGHT IT. I recall telling a friend of mine that the only good thing about what happened today was that it made clear to us who were the idiots amongst our friends. Now we know.
Now, just in case this isn't clear: This protest is not one made or sustained by the Muslim Brotherhood, it's one that had people from all social classes and religious background in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood only showed up on Tuesday, and even then they were not the majority of people there by a long shot. We tolerated them there since we won't say no to fellow Egyptians who wanted to stand with us, but neither the Muslims Brotherhood not any of the Opposition leaders have the ability to turn out one tenth of the numbers of Protesters that were in Tahrir on Tuesday. This is a revolution without leaders. Three Million individuals choosing hope instead of fear and braving death on hourly basis to keep their dream of freedom alive. Imagine that.
The End is near. I have no illusions about this regime or its leader, and how he will pluck us and hunt us down one by one till we are over and done with and 8 months from now will pay people to stage fake protests urging him not to leave power, and he will stay "because he has to acquiesce to the voice of the people". This is a losing battle and they have all the weapons, but we will continue fighting until we can't. I am heading to Tahrir right now with supplies for the hundreds injured, knowing that today the attacks will intensify, because they can't allow us to stay there come Friday, which is supposed to be the game changer. We are bringing everybody out, and we will refuse to be anything else than peaceful. If you are in Egypt, I am calling on all of you to head down to Tahrir today and Friday. It is imperative to show them that the battle for the soul of Egypt isn't over and done with. I am calling you to bring your friends, to bring medical supplies, to go and see what Mubarak's gurantees look like in real life. Egypt needs you. Be Heroes.
Made me cry, thanks for that.
Soooo Fecking proud of these people, sorry for swearing.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
I agree Ayisha.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
NickKristof Nicholas Kristof Pro-democracy protesters in #Tahrir just caught armed infiltrator. Crowd enraged. But volunteers protected him from fatal beating. 6 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
DailyNewsEgypt The Daily News Egypt by ianinegypt Mobs of people attack two of our reporters in Dokki for being 'foreigners'. We are all fine after army intervention. #jan25 #fb 18 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Ssirgany Sarah El Sirgany by ianinegypt State TV has created a state of panic by their "foreign infiltrators" in Tahrir reports. People randomly attacking foreigners in Cairo. 33 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
ianinegypt Ian Lee RT @Ssirgany: My brother was beaten trying to protect the rest of DNE reporters attacked by angry mobs. 1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
edit to add
RamyYaacoub Ramy Yaacoub by evanchill I just called @SandMonkey 's phone and a man answered and he asked me who I am, I said where is monkey, he said your cunt friend is arrested 5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
ROFLMAO @ "The internet is currently not working and mobile phone coverage is intermittent."
well how the hell can we read what's on your website then? duh.
Gotta laugh eh?
Spoke to my son yesterday, we were talking about google allowing tweets etc by phone which was advertized on tv here, but like I said they didn't give a number, nah he says, that was online! ROFL
Oh dear God get me OFF this computer! Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
tv presenter who walked out and resigned from state tv being interviewed live on al jazeera now.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
@ExpinCai I thought sandmonkey exagerated the "end is near" part for pro-democracy protestors. Then I read Ayisha post of his arrest, now there are tweets that state security called his father and said he was in possession of revolution leaflets.
That's awful news, amn al dowla are evil, and torture is their specialty.
** AJE is not working for me
** AJ Arabic, shooting downtown by Mubarak thugs, and they are throwing pro-democracy supplies of food into the Nile.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Awful isn't it. Poor man.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Egyptian army 'will fire on pro-Mubarak protesters'
The Egyptian Army has moved "decisively on the side of the [anti-government] protesters" according to a retired general in Cairo.
Correspondent Jon Leyne spoke to the retired general who is in close contact with the tank crews policing the protests in Tarhir Square.
He was told that the Egyptian army was now willing to open fire on violent pro-government protesters and predicted that President Mubarak would be out of power by tomorrow.
US Under Secretary of State Nicholas Burns told John Humphrys that the "massive US aid programme" that supports the Egyptian military would be used as a tool to persuade President Mubarak to listen.
"The military is going to be the institution that defines this crisis," he said.
"I continue to believe that President Mubarak's days as leader are probably numbered".
If this materializes, then we can be optimistic about the General's other comment about the Military stepping in and removing Mubrark.
This is something worth observing.
Wonderful news. Although I do wish there was another way.
It seems that once again I am unable to connect to Al Jazeera... Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Egyptian army 'will fire on pro-Mubarak protesters'
The Egyptian Army has moved "decisively on the side of the [anti-government] protesters" according to a retired general in Cairo.
Correspondent Jon Leyne spoke to the retired general who is in close contact with the tank crews policing the protests in Tarhir Square.
He was told that the Egyptian army was now willing to open fire on violent pro-government protesters and predicted that President Mubarak would be out of power by tomorrow.
US Under Secretary of State Nicholas Burns told John Humphrys that the "massive US aid programme" that supports the Egyptian military would be used as a tool to persuade President Mubarak to listen.
"The military is going to be the institution that defines this crisis," he said.
"I continue to believe that President Mubarak's days as leader are probably numbered".
If this materializes, then we can be optimistic about the General's other comment about the Military stepping in and removing Mubrark.
This is something worth observing.
Wonderful news. Although I do wish there was another way.
It seems that once again I am unable to connect to Al Jazeera...
Unfortunately events on the ground are contradicting the General's statements. Very disturbing reports of live fire by Pro-M thugs near Egyptian museum and other areas of tahrir.
I don't have AJE either.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
1236: The BBC's John Simpson in Tahrir Square points out: "Yesterday tanks were pointing their guns inwards towards anti-Mubarak protesters - now they have turned the guns away towards the pro-Mubarak camp. I suspect that may be significant."
AJELive AJELive US readers (&perhaps others) having difficulty accessing #AlJazeera site - reason unclear. #Egypt blog still up! http://aje.me/eL6YOW Pls RT 6 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Please let it resonate in Washington.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
They're threatening to retract US Aid I saw on the BBC.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Is anyone able to see AJE?
I am watching BBC live now. They say that the military holds the key. Opposition protesters remain in Tahrir Square. Military seems to be neutral. They are unable to control the crowd.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I can get it online, not got the right satellite for it on tv since the man 'fixed' it Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I am watching it right now
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
BloggerSeif Ali Seif Foreigners get off streets now, please. It doesn't look safe for us at time being. Leave Tahrir for time being. #Jan25 11 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
BloggerSeif Ali Seif The Ali Seif Daily is out! http://bit.ly/hQRmzO ▸ Top stories today via @rafik @lebanesekataeb @laylaanwar @lbmonitor @eebz 10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
AJELive AJELive Man with camera wearing blue "PRESS" vest just being beaten on street. Army stepped in and fired shots in air - http://aje.me/eL6YOW #Egypt 9 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
BloggerSeif Ali Seif Tahrir filing up fast, looks like tensions again today. I am finding a way out, how many arrested? Tunisian man says he was followed too. 5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
HuffingtonPost Huffington Post NYT journalists reportedly arrested in #Egypt http://huff.to/h2AcX5 5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
AJELive AJELive "This is not only a revolt against the regime. This is a revolt for our dignity"- a protester tells #AlJazeera - http://aje.me/eL6YOW #Egypt 3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
NickKristof Nicholas Kristof Police reportedly arresting journalists in Cairo. But as long as I'm in #Tahrir, I guess I'm safe. 1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
HuffingtonPost Huffington Post Vodafone: #Egypt forced us to send text pro-government messages http://huff.to/eQk8Jx 1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
AlArabiya_Eng Al Arabiya English Egypt's PM: we will open an investigation in Wednesday's clashes http://www.alarabiya.net/en_default.html #Mubarak #Egypt #Jan25 59 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I can get AJE. They're showing the Prime Minister apologizing right now.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: I can get it online, not got the right satellite for it on tv since the man 'fixed' it
that's because the egyptian govt are scrambling al jazeera's signals. search on their website, they continue to broadcast alternative frequencies to keep ahead of them.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I have been watching aje on same channel the entire time.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
What's up with the secret service guy behind shafiq peeking out just enough to be on camera? I keep waiting to hold up a "hi mom, i'm on tv" sign any minute.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Still no AJE. So it's just me and D_ORO?!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
NickKristof Nicholas Kristof I just met a double amputee, in a wheelchair, who has been fighting the #Mubarak thugs. He's injured by rock but says will keep fighting. 3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
BloggerSeif Ali Seif Do not trust army! Foreigners they are working with pro mubarak thugs! #Jan25 3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Reuters Reuters Top News U.S. State Department condemns "concerted campaign to intimidate international journalists" in #Cairo #Jan25 2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I have got big blisters on my thumbs from sweeping the entire staircase in my block of flats this afternoon - we don't have a bowab and the cleaner didn't turn up yesterday. One neighbour caught me and gave me a huge smile.
I'm not saying it for glory but it is so hard to concentrate on anything else, and I'm very aware that all the men are out doing guard duty all night and am depending on Egyptians for help and assistance at the moment so if all I can do is clean, then clean I will.
Funnily enough, I spoke to another friend this afternoon and she said she was just thinking about doing the exact same thing with the stair cases in her block and she had sent her son downstairs to tidy the communal garden.
Maybe an idea for other people who are feeling isolated and stuck in and bored and wanting to know what they could do to contribute to their community.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
OMG! What is going on. Al-Jazeera Arabic not working anymore too.
Can someone please click on this link and tell me if the page opens. It's in Arabic but want to see if it'll open for you.
Oh, Shafiq....so condescending this talk of "conspiracy"
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
1330: US Assistant Secretary of State for Public Affairs Philip J Crowley tweets: "There is a concerted campaign to intimidate international journalists in #Cairo and interfere with their reporting. We condemn such actions." - confirming the earlier Reuters report http://twitter.com/PJCrowley
11 minutes ago: Reuters journalist Simon Hanna tweets: Gang of thugs stormed the VideoCairo/Reuters building,started smashing windows+doors,army came up to help.we managed to escape #egypt #jan25
5 minutes ago:two army men came into the building with guns, kicked out the thugs but were shouting and swearing at us. http://twitter.com/simonjhanna
Please email his last blog (part of which I posted earlier) to your friends and spread the word.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I have got big blisters on my thumbs from sweeping the entire staircase in my block of flats this afternoon - we don't have a bowab and the cleaner didn't turn up yesterday. One neighbour caught me and gave me a huge smile.
I'm not saying it for glory but it is so hard to concentrate on anything else, and I'm very aware that all the men are out doing guard duty all night and am depending on Egyptians for help and assistance at the moment so if all I can do is clean, then clean I will.
Funnily enough, I spoke to another friend this afternoon and she said she was just thinking about doing the exact same thing with the stair cases in her block and she had sent her son downstairs to tidy the communal garden.
Maybe an idea for other people who are feeling isolated and stuck in and bored and wanting to know what they could do to contribute to their community.
ooh Shanta, come and stay with me. I have a lovely spare room, only just over 2 years dust in it, it's yours and I will even provide a big smile and TEA Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: OMG! What is going on. Al-Jazeera Arabic not working anymore too.
Can someone please click on this link and tell me if the page opens. It's in Arabic but want to see if it'll open for you.
I clicked on your link. Lots of arabic words etc but no video live streaming, just a black square in the middle.
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
Long time since I've posted here, just a quick question to see if your experiences are the same as mine... anyone in the immediate and outlying areas of Cairo notice no thugs or vandal issues last night while "pro-Mubarak" demonstrators busy in Tahrir? Then as soon as they called it quits near 6am things went to heck as they came back through the city?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Shafiq was asked about direct attacks on media - his response is that the question wasn't sensible and proceeded to lecture the female journalist asking.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
i cant get the Arabic one just the same as tootse. I am the BBC one
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Oh, Shafiq....so condescending this talk of "conspiracy"
Thanks! Just finished watching him. These politicians will look at cameras and reporters in the eye and lie through their teeth.
@tootse Thanks, maybe it's just some servers serving my part of the world are down. Will check for technical problems on my end.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: OMG! What is going on. Al-Jazeera Arabic not working anymore too.
Can someone please click on this link and tell me if the page opens. It's in Arabic but want to see if it'll open for you.
page opens here fine. Where are you?
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I heard nothing. My friend was picking up her children from their gmother and warned me about clashes in haydek maadi that she saw.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
@ Exiiled, I still can't get AJ but BBC has a live coverage. At least some are getting it so at least it means that it is not blocked out all together.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
BloggerSeif Ali Seif Something is going to happen today. Internet going down, arrests around tahrir, foreigners in deep trouble. #Jan25 5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
# 1334: Ahmed Rasheed in Cairo tells the BBC: "Two of my friends have been arrested - one is the blogger Sandmonkey. They were trying to get food and medical supplies. These thugs [supporters of Mubarak] are arresting people and delivering them to the secret police. I was at the protest last night and I got injured after a stone was thrown at my head. I'm going to go back today and get food and medical supplies, if I don't get arrested." Sandmonkey's blog appears to have been suspended.
@Ayisha I know its a tweet, but any truth to the net going back down? Where are we hearing this?
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Did y'all watch the interview with this guy who claims to be a anti-gov protester? He is saying that he wants democracy to come slowly and for M to stay in power and hand over power slowly... What do you think?
... Now the bbc Broadcast has ended. and I can't seem to get it back.
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
quote:Originally posted by hmozachsown: @Ayisha I know its a tweet, but any truth to the net going back down? Where are we hearing this?
Just following this guy and others that are there hm (good to see you back btw) and posting what comes up. Not affecting here as yet but wouldn't surprise me if it did go down again now. Dirty isn't working so mean nasty and dirty has to be next.
From reading all over I'm seeing there are arrests or beatings of reporters, particularly foreign ones and foreigners warned by tweeters to stay out of the square. Possibly that they may be experiencing some internet blocks?? dunno.
this is recent lot:
marwame Marwa Elnaggar Regime shutting down human rights orgs, arresting bloggers, detaining journalists. PM says he has no idea about #Tahrir attacks. #jan25 1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
glcarlstrom Gregg Carlstrom The pro-democracy crowd has also taken over 6th of October bridge. Starting to erect barriers. It's been a strategic high ground. #egypt 1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
evanchill Evan Hill Pro-democracy protesters have taken two of the 6th October overpasses now, erecting barricades. Furthest they've ever advanced. 2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
BloggerSeif Ali Seif Okay, army still as useless as yesterday. I see more determination today from our end. Ppl not wanting to let down. #Jan25 1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
BloggerSeif Ali Seif I have to get out of #Tahrir though...seriously. The arrests are scaring me #Jan25 1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Still got my net. However, as we now know, these things do not necessarily happen in a consistent manner. A friend of a friend her husband works for one of the telecoms companies and they have been ordered to shut down mobile phones for 2 hours here and there to create uncertainty.
BTW - I saw a message from vodafone come on AJE a few minutes ago saying they had been forced to send out the messages we got yesterday.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Kinda scared to ask this question but ... are they just seeking out foreigners on the street... or are they going after those who participated in the protests over the last week? :s
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
from what was being reported, it was at tahrir square and surrounding area...they were going after anyone who looked like they were journalists and after their equipment. foreign ones i would assume are easier to spot, but al jazeera was reporting thugs were chanting for them, trying to find out who was from that network specifically among the crowd. white guy giving an interview now from maadi and he's saying nothing about foreingers being attacked.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
UK FO attempt to defend charging £300 per ticket home:
Apparently their concerned about undercutting commercial airlines. Now my ticket, pre-troubles, cost £160 return. Sure it was a cheapo - it's normally more, but come off it. Maths isn't my specialty but even I can work that out.
Take it the commercial airlines have ramped up their prices. Someone is making some money somewhere.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
This is bad news. They don't want the world to see. I feel sick.
Those of you in Egypt thank you for posting information. Please keep us updated with the news. I am seeing reruns on BBC.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
This tweet was on a CNN breaking newsflash:
"There is a concerted campaign to intimidate international journalists in #Cairo and interfere with their reporting. We condemn such actions." - PJ Crowly US Asst. Sec. of State.
I'm worried what's going to happen if they succeed in driving the journalists out. All eyes of the world are on them now. I dread to think how much worse this could become.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Still got my net. However, as we now know, these things do not necessarily happen in a consistent manner. A friend of a friend her husband works for one of the telecoms companies and they have been ordered to shut down mobile phones for 2 hours here and there to create uncertainty.
BTW - I saw a message from vodafone come on AJE a few minutes ago saying they had been forced to send out the messages we got yesterday.
I haven't been able to get through on my mobile phone to day....first day I have had probs
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
1418: State TV reports that former ministers won't be allowed to leave the country.
1425: Egyptian state news agency reports that those former ministers prevented from leaving the country include ex-interior minister Habib al-Adly, former housing minister Ahmed el-Maghrabi and former tourism minister Zuhair Garana.
quote:Originally posted by hmozachsown: Kinda scared to ask this question but ... are they just seeking out foreigners on the street... or are they going after those who participated in the protests over the last week? :s
I think they have been putting out fear tactics by saying this is all Israel and foreigners and some idiots are believing this. Read back at Exp post from Sandmonkey's blog. It is clear that the word today has been arrest/fight foreign reporters, obviously to stop truth getting to the rest of the world. Foreign reporters appear not to be safe. This has spread to some areas around cairo where confused Egyptians are thinking it is 'foreigners' in general. Shanta reported her safety earlier and community spirit, but things can change quickly and in different areas, different education levels etc it might be different. I think it is wise to not be IN the square now if you are foreign.
latest:
BloggerSeif Ali Seif I'm leaving Tahrir now, tanks seem to be leaving slowly. It will be like yesterday, it will be a murder. FOREIGNERS LEAVE NOW! #Jan25 7 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
marwame Marwa Elnaggar RT @bb_aisha via #aljazeera Security forces order all journalists in #Tahrir Square & hotels overlooking, to leave area now #jan25 7 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
evanchill Evan Hill Pro-democracy protesters just drove Mubarak crowd completely from the 6th October overpasses. Amazing scene. Took video. 6 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
marwame Marwa Elnaggar Free people's manual 101: Don't trust govt. Ever. Especially govt.s with track record of brutality, betrayal, oppression. #jan25 #Egypt 6 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
marwame Marwa Elnaggar PM refused to answer female reporter & humiliated her. Welcome to Mubarak-land, ppl. #jan25 #Egypt 5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
BloggerSeif Ali Seif Shant, Rabih, I and other Lebanese leaving Tahrir together now in large group. Foriengers are in serious trouble, and tensions rise #Jan25 5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
AJELive AJELive Pro-democracy protesters have just drove Mubarak loyalists completely off the 6th October overpasses - http://aje.me/eL6YOW - #Egypt #Jan25 5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
BloggerSeif Ali Seif Other Arabs leaving Tahrir too. Want to laugh? I'm thinking to myself, "if I get arrested, moms going to kill me... And mubarak" #Jan25 2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
evanchill Evan Hill Scene outside the window is absurd. Running battles between anti and pro govt, captives being taken, barricades being stolen. 2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
BBCWorld BBC Global News Egyptian prosecutor issues travel ban and freezes bank accounts of several former ministers of the Mubarak government, state TV says 1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
D_Oro I'm getting AJE through a youtube stream. WooHoo!!!
Click on the bottom right screen, not the video on top.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Today 6:25 AM AP Reporter: Journalists Being Arrested, Including 2 From New York Times
AP reporter Hadeel Al-Shalchi is tweeting from Egypt and says that journalists are being taken into "protective custody," including "2 visiting NYT journos."
Today 6:51 AM 2 Al Jazeera Reporters Attacked, Nile TV Deputy Station Head Resigns
Today 6:53 AM Where To Find Al Jazeera English Live Feed HuffPost has received a number of messages about problems with the Al Jazeera English live feed online. While their own website seems to be having intermittent difficulties, the network is still broadcasting and can be seen on a number of online repeater sites, including their their YouTube page
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: D_Oro I'm getting AJE through a youtube stream. WooHoo!!!
Click on the bottom right screen, not the video on top.
WooHoo!!! I was finding it while you were posting... Shukran.. Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Hmozach... just try to stay home. I know that in Heliopolis when they ran riot folk were shooting randomly and a guy was killed by the Girls College.
Not everything is a rumour or blown out of proportion. That is why a lot of the Heliopolis crew flew out... sure it may be fine now but it took a split second from the Mosque doing a voice over warning to the streets filling with armed folk.
Not sure they are seeking out as such but it only takes one fanatic. Stay safe.
The News stated that only people associated with the Government have arms... they should have been out in Heliopolis on Friday then to witness how many run o the mill folk have arms!!!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: I was finding it while you were posting... Shukran..
yeah-yeah! I found it first.
Kidding aside, AJ is invaluable.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
At the moment the anti-gov protester are making significant progress and seem to be in control right now...
They are shouting "The army and the people hand in hand"
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: I was finding it while you were posting... Shukran..
yeah-yeah! I found it first.
Kidding aside, AJ is invaluable.
You're the man... lol Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: I was finding it while you were posting... Shukran..
yeah-yeah! I found it first.
Kidding aside, AJ is invaluable.
You're the man... lol
I'm getting both AJ and AJE now on AJ websites. Probably technical problemns on their end, or sabotage.
A good developement is that former Minister of Interior (Habib Adly) is banned from traveling. This guy was Mubarak's attack dog. He was really as feared as they come. Happy that he is feeling the fear now.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Who is banning him?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
This just came through on my Facebook from one of the Egyptian Heavy Metal fan groups I belong to:
"Most of the Egyptians were struck by Mubarak's speech yesterday as one of the most sensational speeches they have ever heard from him, I can't deny that I was even emotionally struck when he announced that he won't seek a new presidency term following the expiry of his term next September...
People who always wanted him to step down felt mixed feelings towards him, this powerful dictator who we always hated and wanted him to go away throughout all the 30 years of his Regime, Now he is begging his own people in his own speech, and we felt that listening to us is a humiliation to him, though listening to people is what the ruler should always offer!
I had to rethink again and to ask myself a question: "What he did really offer in his speech?" then I felt a big pain inside me and I had to remember a guy I met yesterday in Tahrir Square in Anti-Mubarak Protests packing his both eyes and I asked him if he is injured.... He replied that he lost both of his eyes last Friday (Friday of Rage)... I felt like if my soul is shaking and told him sorry for what happened to his eyes.. He asked me with all his dignity not to feel sorry for him because he will always live so proud that his both lost eyes were one of the reasons that he and the entire Egyptian nation will live FREE forever!! and to be a Free Blind is always much better than to live as a slaved humiliated person with healthy proper eyes!!
I really cried when I heard those sentimental heroic words from this guy who sacrificed his both eyes for the dignity of his nation and I kept thinking about it... How come I can one day let that guy down who won't be able to see his parents or all the people he loves? and How come I will ignore a mom who only wish to see her lost son just one more time then he Goes Away FOREVER? How come we had to shut our ears not to hear a father who’s weeping his lonely son being smacked down by the Police cars? How come I can forget the girl who lost her father who was shot down by the Police bullets and all his crime that he was chanting in the protests "We want it a Peaceful one!"
When you imagine all this happening to you or to anyone of your family what would you do? I found out that if I greeted Mubarak after his speech or remained Silent, I shouldn’t feel sorry if all these horrible things happened to anyone in my family...
I found out that Mubarak who made his people sympathize and cry for him yesterday, is the same assassin and dictator who slaughtered his people today with a sharp sword!
I found out that those who were DECEIVED by his speech yesterday must Say today "NO!NO!", we must definitely say "NO" to those who killed us today in Cairo's biggest squares!!
I found out that even our enemies never killed or attacked their own nations and that I cannot post again a photograph for the Assassin who killed and attacked his own nation and people... I got to find out the differences in patriotism and national pride between those who were in Tahrir Square and those who were satisfied staying at home watching TV justifying that by their own fear to lose themselves...
I felt scared that those who sacrificed their souls, their lovers and their eyes did all that for a speech from a dictator!! A speech he targeted it towards the merciful hearts of his own people who he knows very well!! A nation who was never able to make him sympathize with it for all 30 years and he was able to make it sympathize with him in one moment!! What a real pity!!
I felt scared that an Assassin and a Dictator would rule me for one more day, someone who always promised and never fulfilled!!
I got to know that whoever would say "Yes" to Mubarak must fear that bloody fate for himself and his own family!!
Never believed that a demonstration chanting for that Assassin consisting of Thugs, Swords, Knives, Machine, Guns, Horses, Carts slaughtering our people, could ever represent us...
Never believed his Speech when he replaced the old minister of interior with a new one to kill us and slaughter us in Tahrir Square!! My mind told that all these is related to the president and not to the ministers as he always keeps trying to deceive us!!
I Wish that we won't lose the biggest Popular Uprising and Revolution for the sake of such an Assassin!! It's something our parents could never dream or dare to do!!
It isn't important to demonstrate but it is important not to say "Yes" to someone who killed your brother and your sister who fell down for your own sake!! That person if he really loved his country he would have stepped down to avoid blood shed among his own people and his own nation even if he thought would be right!!!
I took my decision and i won't be scared and no one should feel scared!.......... I WON'T SELL THOSE WHO FELL DOWN FOR YOU, ME AND OUR DIGNITY WHILE OTHERS ARE WATCHING OVER THE COUCH!! I WILL NEVER BETRAY THOSE WHO I SAID "NO" WITH .. AND I WILL NEVER REGRET THAT I'M WITH SOMEONE SACRIFICED HIS OWN BLOOD FOR OUR DIGNITY AND OUR FREEDOM!!!
I tell all those who sacrificed their souls for us.. I'm sorry and forgive me.. I love you all even if I Never Knew You.. and I will never betray you for this assassin because I'm a real Egyptian who really loves his own land...and You are too Egyptians...Long lived Egyptian and Long Lived Egypt!!!!
N.B: If you feel yourself a real Egyptian just Spread the Word... "
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
And THIS one from another:
What we have asked at the last 9 days come true ....
1- free of speech 2- Mubarak will not re-elected on September 3- The end of the idea of descent 4- Amendment to the Constitution.
The Egyptian economy has been fall down at this period No income for everyone,the Egyptian tourism Collapsed this year think with me all how many ppl work in this field from transportations,hotels,Resorts, bazaars.
Exportation has been stopped completely for 1 week do you think how much we lost at this week minimum 30 billion dollars and it will be continued even after the situation become more stable.
I don't agree with the message that ali slobodan sent from minutes please save your country.
No body can't stand in front of our will again,if you are afraid that Mubarak won't do what he said,we will go down again.
Yes alot of ppl have been killed and am so sad, I really sympathize with their families. I understand their anger and Ali's anger, but the solution isn't causing more damage and more loss of souls, just wait and see what will happen.
7komeet 2el 2enkaaz 2el by2ool 3leha deeh hadmar masr 6 april eeh 2el y7komo Masr wyt7'olo f 7komeet 2enkaaz 2el 27zaab deeh kolha 3omla w rakbyeen el moga, 2el 2e7'waan lo da7'lo el 7koma hydmaro masr.
Please wait to elect the right president for Egypt,sudden choice can bring for us another dictator.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Interesting to contrast two points of view from two very similar people.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Shanta, Would you mind posting the link so I can post it to my FB?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Who is banning him?
The attorney general's office. It could be a ploy, but he is by all accounts banned from traveling outside Egypt.
The NDP is crumbling around Mubarak. His son just resigned from party.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
1522: BBC Arabic correspondent Khaled Ezzelarab: Heavy gunfire heard in Abdel Monem Riyad Square in downtown Cairo.
1520: German Chancellor Angela Merkel has spoken to Hosni Mubarak and told him that dialogue must begin, Reuters reports.
1518: Ashraf Khalil tweets: "Huge plumes of smoke coming from up the river past national archives. Hard to tell but could be Arcadia mall."
I think these are token gestures to get the masses on their side and show the "reform" that US demands happens immediately.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Shanta, Would you mind posting the link so I can post it to my FB?
Difficult because they came via PM and I can only access FB by m.facebook on this 'puter. Will try later on other puter if poss.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
http://twitter.com/TravellerW Beaten up by the lovely #Egyptian ppl on way home because.. I have a laptop. In army custody. Bleeding frm head. Headache. Oh well. #jan25
Sandmonkey released..... OnPhone W/ @SandMonkey: "Massive Chaos ensued before we got arrested, my phone is gone, money, and car is destroyed" #SandMonkey http://twitter.com/RamyYaacoub Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
CBE to limit withdraws to $10K.
-AJ live
Algeria plans to lift State of Emergency/Emergency Law "soon"
A.F.P
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Sandmonkey released..... OnPhone W/ @SandMonkey: "Massive Chaos ensued before we got arrested, my phone is gone, money, and car is destroyed" #SandMonkey http://twitter.com/RamyYaacoub
Good news. That dude has 9 lives. His website is suspended.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Shanta,
Hyper One market in 6th of October city is on fire. (via Twitter)
Okay I said it yesterday and I will say it again. Egypt is going down the drain, the fighting can continue for weeks, months really no one can know.
If Mubarak is going I sense his extremist supporters will not stay quiet and most likely will try to harm the opposition parties, any progress which is being made simply out of anger and revenge.
Please keep in mind that they are moderate Mubarak supporters who don't mind him leaving his office but at the right time. I am one of them and at the same time I am supportive of the youth who revolted.
The only problem here which I see is - and I repeatedly said it also here before - there is no plan, after several days opposition groups could not come to a proper agreement of what will happen if Mubarak is indeed leaving the country and the government will be immediately dissolved. Who will take over for the time being until new elections will take place??? It's such a pity that this very important and crucial piece of the uprising is not figured out yet. Egypt is badly suffering, every day more....
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Aisha, I'm reposting this for you... a tear jerker...an Egyptian living in UK talks about what these protests mean to him...
Thank you! I cried, hubby filled up too, he wants to go to cairo, says he needs to.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
We heard you first time Tigerlily. It's not the protesters who have closed the banks, shut down the internet thereby cripling all businesses, imposed statewide curfiew, and scared the tourists away.
It is the goverment you so support. So if you think Egypt is going down the drain because of this - then blame the same goverment.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Shanta,
Hyper One market in 6th of October city is on fire. (via Twitter)
marwame Marwa Elnaggar RT @ahmadtarek: Confirmed: HyperOne caught fire in the second floor due to electric reasons. 33 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
*seconded ExpatinCAI
There are a variety of different ways and options for how things could move forward. Its not that there arent options, its that people dont have the ability or appropriate forum to have that dialogue. I poersonally dont begrudge them, they're a bit busy with a revolution and all Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Egypt's Mubarak Likely to Retain Vast Wealth
Mubarak Family May Have as Much as $70 Billion Stashed Away, Experts Estimate
Between 50-70 Billion GULP! no wonder many Egyptians live off of $2 per day.
And there I was think Egyptians were exaggerating when they said Mubarak was one of the richest people in the world.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
That's an extremely arrogrant thing to write by anyone who is not in Egypt. Shame on you.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I can't get on facebook (even m.facebook.com) is it just me and this computer or is anyone else having a problem? Not even loading a tiny bit.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
How can you think they are not happy TL? This is the happiest many have been in their life! Yes they cannot turn back and they don't want to turn back and carry on being suppressed, they are prepared to die for the freedom of this country.
Would a lot more people be happier in East Germany if that wall was still there?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
That's in US $$ and not L.E
The way he treated western journalists, everything will be revealed. Don't mess with the free press.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
That's an extremely arrogrant thing to write by anyone who is not in Egypt. Shame on you.
Sorry but I can't follow your personal insults. If you have anything constructive to tell me do so.
#Jan25 was a glorious idea but unfortunately not figured out into the detail. And Egyptians are paying now badly for it. But freedom and democracy will not come for free anyway.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I heard there are snipers in Tahrir randomly shooting at people?? Seems the government leaders who were ousted are not taking their lot well and are trying to undermine the newly appointed members? Sounds like a mess but I have hope for the people fighting for their country!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
My FB is fine Shanta
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Sandmonkey Sandmonkey by RamyYaacoub Please don't respond to my phone or BBM. This isn't me. My phone was confiscated by a thug of an officer who insults those who call. 3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Egypt's Mubarak Likely to Retain Vast Wealth
Mubarak Family May Have as Much as $70 Billion Stashed Away, Experts Estimate
Between 50-70 Billion GULP! no wonder many Egyptians live off of $2 per day.
And there I was think Egyptians were exaggerating when they said Mubarak was one of the richest people in the world.
They should freeze his assets and use it to rebuild Egypt.
People saw the pro-gov supporters came in on mini buses.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
How can you think they are not happy TL? This is the happiest many have been in their life! Yes they cannot turn back and they don't want to turn back and carry on being suppressed, they are prepared to die for the freedom of this country.
Would a lot more people be happier in East Germany if that wall was still there?
Ayisha freedom is a relative thing you know.
What will happen is that the Egyptians are rid off Mubarak but their country and economy will be in shambles and many, many of the people who right now support #jan25 will become disappointed over the time and regret what happened because at least with Mubarak they have food.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
The fb page published white house phone number to leave msg for obama.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
@ Lily, Do you also feel that an abused woman should stay with her abusive husband to keep the family together?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
That's an extremely arrogrant thing to write by anyone who is not in Egypt. Shame on you.
Sorry but I can't follow your personal insults. If you have anything constructive to tell me do so.
#Jan25 was a glorious idea but unfortunately not figured out into the details. And Egyptians are paying now badly for it. But freedom and democracy will not come for free anyway.
You posted your opinion as "a lot more [egyptian] people would be happy right now." How arrogant of you - sitting there in Germany - to be expressing the opinions on behalf of MILLIONS OF EGYPTIANS! How dare YOU.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: The fb page published white house phone number to leave msg for obama.
Which fb page?
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
What a question. Of course not.
I am not sure why so much hate for the regime from your side as foreigners. I guess because you are all affiliated with Egyptians who didn't have it good under Mubarak.
But I got to tell you more than enough people lived very comfortable because of him.
And when not every Egyptian demands that Mubarak is going to abdicate immediately and/or to be hanged you see them as 'enemy' and 'traitor' but this is not the case. People just want to take anymore unnecessary risks and prefer that the change happens in time. Mubarak is not running anymore in the next elections so people should be content and be more wiser of what to do next.
Again, you can't expect to be free and even democratic overnight.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Egypt's Mubarak Likely to Retain Vast Wealth
Mubarak Family May Have as Much as $70 Billion Stashed Away, Experts Estimate
Between 50-70 Billion GULP! no wonder many Egyptians live off of $2 per day.
And there I was think Egyptians were exaggerating when they said Mubarak was one of the richest people in the world.
I was reading something along those lines last night, but my eyes must've been squiffy because I thought they said $70 million. I thought "that's a lot of money".
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Anyone know what happened to the guy who posted here on occasion, who had the website "From London to Cairo"? I got a notice that there was a new post up today but when I go to his website it appears that there's nothing there and the spot is just being saved??
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
How can you think they are not happy TL? This is the happiest many have been in their life! Yes they cannot turn back and they don't want to turn back and carry on being suppressed, they are prepared to die for the freedom of this country.
Would a lot more people be happier in East Germany if that wall was still there?
Ayisha freedom is a relative thing you know.
What will happen is that the Egyptians are rid off Mubarak but their country and economy will be in shambles and many, many of the people who right now support #jan25 will become disappointed over the time and regret what happened because at least with Mubarak they have food.
TL, you didn't answer my question. You should think about Doro's question too.
I agree freedom is relative and being able to finally SPEAK OUT is a basic human right. Being able to travel around your own country is a right that has not been allowed here. Being allowed to say 'I don't like what this Govt is doing is a right and this is the freedom from this sort of oppression that these brave people are fighting for, just as yours did in Germany which finally brought that wall down for good. People died trying to climb that wall into freedom just as people died here in these past few days for the freedom of Egypt. Yes there will be bad times after, but they have lived bad times like that all their lives. People have no food NOW under him, if they have no food after him they will have at least their freedom, so they will have gained that and the pride and determination to move forward to a better furture that they will all have a part in building.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Posted by Lew Rockwell on February 2, 2011 06:50
Vast numbers of American tourists pour into Egypt, mostly into Cairo, every year to see the incredible pyramids and the other historical wonders and beauties of Egypt. They are generally intrigued by the friendly people who speak pretty good English within the tourist enclave of Egyptian society, the world of taxi drivers, hotels, restaurants, and the historical sites. They sometimes get a glimpse of the vast Lower Depths of Egyptian society, the tens of millions of very poor people living literally on the margin of subsistence, commonly about $2 a day for a typical family earned each day. But few seem to realize that Egypt is one of the most terrible police states in the world. The vastly secret Interior ministry, which to Americans sounds like a benevolent department of government running national parks, is said to have about one and a half million people spying on Egyptians and everyone else and “maintaining law and order” by ordinary policing, torture, and murder. And the Egyptian “siloviki” [Russian for all the present and former members of the secret security forces working together] are far more omnipresent and unseen.
It is these “plainclothes” secret police who pose as gang members to beat and disappear anyone who protests too loudly, as they did in these current revolutionary eruptions. Tourists would almost never realize the “thugs” beating young protestors are really professional secret police like the FBI, CIA, ATFA, DEA, etc., etc. Once in a while the American secret police get caught on camera attacking and even murdering young people, even women and children, as happened at Waco when Bill Clinton and his AG, Janet Reno, sent them in with heavy arms, including tanks belching fire to set the building on fire to burn the women and children alive. But these brutal attacks by the secret police are far more common in Egypt and most of the other puppet regime tyrannies in the Middle East built up by the U.S. over many decades to protect Big Oil interests.
Egypt looks like a pretty free society, since people can come and go and taxi drivers seem to talk freely, if not often about the secret police or Mubarak’s totalitarian tyranny. It seems on the surface to be in that way an “open society.” But it is a society with a smiling, partially open surface behind which lurks a vast tyranny of the government and oligarchs made “secure” by the vast secret police who may be literally anywhere and everywhere, but not seen, blending into the everyday life more than Soviet KGB agents commonly did in their much more limited numbers inside the USSR borders. http://www.lewrockwell.com/ Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
That's an extremely arrogrant thing to write by anyone who is not in Egypt. Shame on you.
Sorry but I can't follow your personal insults. If you have anything constructive to tell me do so.
#Jan25 was a glorious idea but unfortunately not figured out into the details. And Egyptians are paying now badly for it. But freedom and democracy will not come for free anyway.
You posted your opinion as "a lot more [egyptian] people would be happy right now." How arrogant of you - sitting there in Germany - to be expressing the opinions on behalf of MILLIONS OF EGYPTIANS! How dare YOU.
I don't understand your frustrations seriously. I am not sure if I don't make properly clear or you just looking for some space to vent and somebody to blame.
What is arrogant of me? To beleive perhaps it would have been the better idea of not revolting?
Can someone have a different opinion than you? Am I or anyone else for that matter allowed to voice an opinion?
Egyptians are living now really in fear of what tomorrow will bring. What is so hard to understand?
If I was an expat right now in Egypt I would get def out. The whole situation is just too critical and uncertain. People will return once it gets better again (hopefully soon) no doubt about it.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
TL, I agree with you that as a tourist Mubarak didn't do too badly at keeping us safe. But at what price to his own people? Those people should have been his first concern, not his last.
This isn't a bit of wishful thinking - hope they all settle down quickly and go back to work so it doesn't muck up your forthcoming holiday? It's a real bummer, I know.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
How can you think they are not happy TL? This is the happiest many have been in their life! Yes they cannot turn back and they don't want to turn back and carry on being suppressed, they are prepared to die for the freedom of this country.
Would a lot more people be happier in East Germany if that wall was still there?
Ayisha freedom is a relative thing you know.
What will happen is that the Egyptians are rid off Mubarak but their country and economy will be in shambles and many, many of the people who right now support #jan25 will become disappointed over the time and regret what happened because at least with Mubarak they have food.
TL, you didn't answer my question. You should think about Doro's question too.
I agree freedom is relative and being able to finally SPEAK OUT is a basic human right. Being able to travel around your own country is a right that has not been allowed here. Being allowed to say 'I don't like what this Govt is doing is a right and this is the freedom from this sort of oppression that these brave people are fighting for, just as yours did in Germany which finally brought that wall down for good. People died trying to climb that wall into freedom just as people died here in these past few days for the freedom of Egypt. Yes there will be bad times after, but they have lived bad times like that all their lives. People have no food NOW under him, if they have no food after him they will have at least their freedom, so they will have gained that and the pride and determination to move forward to a better furture that they will all have a part in building.
Ayisha, I should be the more 'naive' of us two here. Let the instability in Egypt continue and people will REALLY STARVE. They haven't had bad yet. Look at some of the African countries. Is that what you want for the Egyptian people???
Under Mubarak Egypt was stable. But what can he do when his population overexplodes from 35 million when he became President of Egypt to 80+ million now? Family planning initiatives were going on for many years but many people - especially the rural folks - were and are still very reluctant to use them.
Do you think the next President(s) will be able to change that and create millions of jobs more for the youth and everybody will live happily ever after???
Definitely not.
And Egypt is not done. By 2020 its estimated that the country will have 99 million people.
Anyone following the prime ministers questions and answers at the moment....on TV?
Its been quite interesting
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: What a question. Of course not.
I am not sure why so much hate for the regime from your side as foreigners. I guess because you are all affiliated with Egyptians who didn't have it good under Mubarak.
But I got to tell you more than enough people lived very comfortable because of him.
And when not every Egyptian demands that Mubarak is going to abdicate immediately and/or to be hanged you see them as 'enemy' and 'traitor' but this is not the case. People just want to take anymore unnecessary risks and prefer that the change happens in time. Mubarak is not running anymore in the next elections so people should be content and be more wiser of what to do next.
Again, you can't expect to be free and even democratic overnight.
The question is relevant. If you do not recommend a woman stay under an abusive husband, no matter what hardship she will endure to leave him; then why would you feel that a people should stay under and abusive government?
I don't have so much hate for their government, their government has not harmed me. What I have is compassion for the people. We all have the right to live our life with liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If I were under an oppressive government I would pray that people would stand with me.
Thats it really, I want to stand on the side of the people.
Another thing to think about is that a liar is a liar, he may tell the truth at times, but how can you know at which times he is telling the truth or a lie? How do you know he will step down when he says that he will? An abusive husband ALWAYS says "I will never do it again, I will change".... then there is a calm, and he does it again, and again he is so sorry and this time he will change and it goes on and on.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: TL, I agree with you that as a tourist Mubarak didn't do too badly at keeping us safe. But at what price to his own people? Those people should have been his first concern, not his last.
This isn't a bit of wishful thinking - hope they all settle down quickly and go back to work so it doesn't muck up your forthcoming holiday? It's a real bummer, I know.
I booked two!!
You know Mubarak is in power for thirty long years. If he leaves now or in September there will be still many Egyptians around in important positions with the same kind of mentality. And of course you can't kick everyone out the government at the same time. It would be an absolute disaster for Egypt and its people.
What I was trying to say the other day and today again is to give it time for people to come together and make the right decisions. Egyptians waited for many years for freedom and democracy and should not rush into anything. In this case the risks are very high to **** things up and hasty made - not well thought through - decisions could affect 80+ million people very badly.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: I don't understand your frustrations seriously. I am not sure if I don't make properly clear or you just looking for some space to vent and somebody to blame.
What is arrogant of me? To beleive perhaps it would have been the better idea of not revolting? [/QB]
Ok, let me try for the third time. You keep posting your opinions as if you were voicing the opinions of the Egyptian people. These are ONLY your opinions as a foreigner. I'm not Egyptian, but I feel insulted the way you appear to be speaking on their behalf.
Perhaps it's the way you phrase things. Such as " if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now."
How would YOU know if Egyptians would be a lot more happy or not? Was there a country-wide poll published somewhere nobody else read?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: It would be an absolute disaster for Egypt and its people.
Why would it be? Because before he went he'd wreak as much havoc as he could?
Do you really naively think that one man holds the entire country together and it would fall apart without him?
All foreign government have called for a transition of power already. He's installed a VP. Fine. Let the VP govern until the general elections are held.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Is it true Hyper One is on fire?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Anyone following the prime ministers questions and answers at the moment....on TV?
Its been quite interesting
Yes me!
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
No body listening to speach????
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Anyone following the prime ministers questions and answers at the moment....on TV?
Its been quite interesting
I am but what I'm getting (it's choppy at best here) is that he will investigate those who caused the violence and is saying basically that these were probably foreign forces. Then he also cited that the "western" news stations have been falsely reporting things. Of course this was after they reported that a few reporters from Nile TV quit because they couldn't bear the false reporting on Nile TV. lol.
Basically he's the same as Mubarak in my opinion.
@tiger - a lot of people had it good under Hitler too, didn't they?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
@Cheeky They're saying so, and a foreigner's been killed by the look of it.
He says there will be investigations and punishment to people who caused it.......'says'.....
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I'm having a problem with people on my FB posting stuff in Arabic, and I shove it in Google Translate and for the life of me cannot fathom whether it is pro or anti!
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Let the VP govern until the general elections are held.
Finally something we can both agree on BUT unfortunately the people who support the uprising want nothing to do with Soliman or anyone else from the current regime either.
Egyptians need to find together solutions for themselves, it's their country and their lives will be affected be it good or bad.
I am just a foreigner voicing my own opinion on this forum.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Shafiq has nothing over Sulayman in the liar department.
To many inconsistencies to list.
Blamed foreign elements for inciting the attacks on Wednesday. Took a Qatar (al jazeera).
Blamed “foreign militias” for freeing criminal prisoners.
Police worked in an honorable way to protect people.
Said foreign nations have no say in internal matters.
Said Hosni Mubarak is an honest man and will keep his word, and he is a father.
There will be no ramifications for demonstrators once they go home.
This man is in some serious denial, or insane and probably both.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: @tiger - a lot of people had it good under Hitler too, didn't they?
Are you riding your husband with snarky remarks too if he doesn't share your opinion? Just wondering.
I hope I didn't offend you right now. If I did - shame on me.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I'm having a problem with people on my FB posting stuff in Arabic, and I shove it in Google Translate and for the life of me cannot fathom whether it is pro or anti!
Well.....he started by saying give us 200 days...we have to get XYZ set up.....THEN he started to blame foreigners for interfering
Mixed up me thinks....
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: He says there will be investigations and punishment to people who caused it.......'says'.....
The thing is though, how can he not know already who did it, since reports prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that it was plainclothes police and security forces who were told outright to do this? That's why I didn't listen after that. He knows and they all know exactly who did and who continues to do these things. I'd respect him more if he just came out and apologized and told the truth.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: He says there will be investigations and punishment to people who caused it.......'says'.....
The thing is though, how can he not know already who did it, since reports prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that it was plainclothes police and security forces who were told outright to do this? That's why I didn't listen after that. He knows and they all know exactly who did and who continues to do these things. I'd respect him more if he just came out and apologized and told the truth.
He is saying it wasnt organised...but they are still investigating
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Sulieman! What a hypocrite. In one breath blame foreigners and in next complaining about loss of money from tourism.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: [qb] Well to reply back to you I just say if #Jan25 wouldn't have happened a lot more people would be happy right now. But it's too late now for turning back. Egyptians have to ride it out for themselves.
How can you think they are not happy TL? This is the happiest many have been in their life! Yes they cannot turn back and they don't want to turn back and carry on being suppressed, they are prepared to die for the freedom of this country.
Would a lot more people be happier in East Germany if that wall was still there?
Ayisha freedom is a relative thing you know.
What will happen is that the Egyptians are rid off Mubarak but their country and economy will be in shambles and many, many of the people who right now support #jan25 will become disappointed over the time and regret what happened because at least with Mubarak they have food.
TL, you didn't answer my question. You should think about Doro's question too.
I agree freedom is relative and being able to finally SPEAK OUT is a basic human right. Being able to travel around your own country is a right that has not been allowed here. Being allowed to say 'I don't like what this Govt is doing is a right and this is the freedom from this sort of oppression that these brave people are fighting for, just as yours did in Germany which finally brought that wall down for good. People died trying to climb that wall into freedom just as people died here in these past few days for the freedom of Egypt. Yes there will be bad times after, but they have lived bad times like that all their lives. People have no food NOW under him, if they have no food after him they will have at least their freedom, so they will have gained that and the pride and determination to move forward to a better furture that they will all have a part in building.
Ayisha, I should be the more 'naive' of us two here. Let the instability in Egypt continue and people will REALLY STARVE. They haven't had bad yet.
TL, yes I think you are the naive of us because you are not HERE now. People here are willing to DIE for the freedom. Did east Germany starve more before or after the wall came down? Please think about it, are you better off now than then? You are obvioulsy avoiding answering the question again.
quote: Look at some of the African countries. Is that what you want for the Egyptian people???
List those other African countries that do NOT have a similar oppressive regime and corruption like this one.
quote:Under Mubarak Egypt was stable. But what can he do when his population overexplodes from 35 million when he became President of Egypt to 80+ million now? Family planning initiatives were going on for many years but many people - especially the rural folks - were and are still very reluctant to use them.
Oppression and control for so long is called 'stable'? You mean he kept their mouths shut for them, that stable?
How many people in China? 1,342,120,000, that is just under 20% of the WORLD.
Egypt has far less people and far more 'resources'.
quote:Do you think the next President(s) will be able to change that and create millions of jobs more for the youth and everybody will live happily ever after???
Definitely not.
I am not stupid and neither are the Egyptian people. For any action there has to be a starting point, this is it.
quote:And Egypt is not done. By 2020 its estimated that the country will have 99 million people.
still well behind China so it's time someone up there started to get a grip and really take care of the people now as in 2050 it will be double the people with double the years of pent up oppression Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
The guy is just saying anything to try to get people on side! The protests were 'legitimate and their right', if that was the case why cut the internet and mobile phone lines then tear gas, shoot rubber bullets and water cannon them??? Then when that failed bring in curfews! This maybe was started by the young people but on Tuesday I saw people of all ages and walks of life, people who finally had a voice after 30 years. How else do they have a chance to air their grievances when there has been no free elections. I admire them very much and think they are all so very brave to do what they have done.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
April 6 just reiterated that they will not have a dialogue with the regime until Mubarak resigns. So....what the hell was Sulayman talking about about meeting them? Somebody is lying and if I had to guess purely on record, I would say the regime is lying.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: April 6 just reiterated that they will not have a dialogue with the regime until Mubarak resigns. So....what the hell was Sulayman talking about about meeting them? Somebody is lying and if I had to guess purely on record, I would say the regime is lying.
Brotherhood said the same thing
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Hubby is watching some channel now and a woman who is apparently 'someone with 10 chairs in parliament' is speaking apparently good stuff. He can't remember her name though as apparently she, 'as the leader of these chairs' is not normally 'allowed' to have much voice either. Anyone any ideas on a name? Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: April 6 just reiterated that they will not have a dialogue with the regime until Mubarak resigns. So....what the hell was Sulayman talking about about meeting them? Somebody is lying and if I had to guess purely on record, I would say the regime is lying.
Brotherhood said the same thing
He acknowledged the brotherhood as hestitant but he specifically said that he was meeting with the youth that incited Jan 25.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Anyone know what happened to the guy who posted here on occasion, who had the website "From London to Cairo"? I got a notice that there was a new post up today but when I go to his website it appears that there's nothing there and the spot is just being saved??
emailed him, he and family are fine and safe but was advised to take his site down as it has info on where he is and his pics. Can be contacted on the info@londontocairo address which he asked me to pass on. Also he is on Twitter at
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Let the VP govern until the general elections are held.
Finally something we can both agree on BUT unfortunately the people who support the uprising want nothing to do with Soliman or anyone else from the current regime either.
Egyptians need to find together solutions for themselves, it's their country and their lives will be affected be it good or bad.
I am just a foreigner voicing my own opinion on this forum.
Ladies, just allow me to recount a point raised on AJ yesterday. The caller whom I don't remember his name said that what was happening in Tahrir yesterday was a rehersal (brova in Arabic) for what'll happen in the next nine months if M is allowed to continue. He also said he had thirty years to implement reform, why should we believe him now. To be honest, this did make sense to me. Indeed if the security forces get away with it this time, then they'll be like mad dogs in the next nine months, possibly completely liquidating any oposition by whatever means. You've seen what they've done under the glarring light of international media, can you imagine what they'll do "when the carnival is over" as the Egyptians say. In addition, leaving the same people (most ministers in the new government are the same) in power for the next nine months means giving them the oportunity to maximise their stealing. A bit like Ali Baba when he got into the cave and wanted to take as much as possible before the gang is back. So, we'll have another Ali Baba situation with the deadline after nine months.
I think we've reached the point of no return. But who'll hold on for longer. As one of you says, the average people in the street are starting to suffer, and maybe the regime is banking on that.
Just another view, among many.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
my question is for all the people doing the murdering what happens to them after all has been said and done? will anything happen to them? or its all game and just forget what happened?
Noted Egyptian blogger Sandmonkey apparently arrested (Update: Sandmonkey Released) Rick Moran One of the sharpest foreign bloggers and a font of information during the Egypt crisis has been Sandmonkey.
PJ Media CEO Roger Simon was able to interview Sandmonkey for a few minutes last night (An audio trak is available at the link):
On the reassuring side, "Sandmonkey" says the the Muslim Brotherhood is not a heavy presence at the demonstrations and that for the last four years they have been in a weakened position in Egypt, the least powerful of five Islamic organizations (although the most violent). Also heartening is that he says that there are no leaders for the movement, not Mahmoud ElBaradei or anybody else. Unfortunately, however, it doesn't sound much like an Egyptian version of the Tea Party. Mubarak isn't going away and it's getting more bloodthirsty by the day. "Sandmonkey" sounded bleak. He said that only America can help at this point by fully backing the demonstrators against Mubarak. "Does America stand for its ideals or does it stand for its interests?" he asked. On that score, he doesn't like Obama. But guess what? He liked George Bush!
Now the Guardian is reporting that Sandmonkey has been arrested and his blog taken down.
Before he went dark, Sandmonkey spat defiance at the Mubarak regime:
If you are in Egypt, I am calling on all of you to head down to Tahrir today and Friday. It is imperative to show them that the battle for the soul of Egypt isn't over and done with. I am calling you to bring your friends, to bring medical supplies, to go and see what Mubarak's gurantees look like in real life. Egypt needs you. Be Heroes. [...]:
You watched on TV as "Pro-Mubarak Protesters" - thugs who were paid money by NDP members by admission of High NDP officials- started attacking the peaceful unarmed protesters in Tahrir square.
They attacked them with sticks, threw stones at them, brought in men riding horses and camels- in what must be the most surreal scene ever shown on TV- and carrying whips to beat up the protesters. And then the Bullets started getting fired and Molotov cocktails started getting thrown at the Anti-Mubarak Protesters as the Army standing idly by, allowing it all to happen and not doing anything about it.
Dozens were killed, hundreds injured, and there was no help sent by ambulances. The Police never showed up to stop those attacking because the ones who were captured by the Anti-mubarak people had police ID's on them. They were the police and they were there to shoot and kill people and even tried to set the Egyptian Museum on Fire.
The Aim was clear: Use the clashes as pretext to ban such demonstrations under pretexts of concern for public safety and order, and to prevent disunity amongst the people of Egypt.
It is not unknown in these chaotic situations for prisoners to be shot "while trying to escape" or simply "disappeared" as has happened so often in recent decades. We can only pray that Sandmonkey's notoriety in the West might grant him some protection from the regime.
UPDATE
PJ Media's "The Tatler" is reporting that after being beaten and arrested, Sandmonkey is now free:
Trying to contact RamyYaacoub and Sandmonkey now, we hope Ramy's latest tweets are true:
OnPhone W/ @SandMonkey: "My car is completely destoryed, my cellphone was taken, we were saved by my friend's extra phone" #SandMonkey
OnPhone W/ @SandMonkey: "We were just released after a 2 hour arrest, the beating came before the arrest" #SandMonkey
OnPhone W/ @SandMonkey: "We were released, we did NOT run away . . . heading back to safety now" #SandMonkey
It is possible the authorities did not know who they had in custody. Reports and tweets have indicated that the Egyptian army is stopping people from bringing food and medicine into Tahrir Square and that plainclothes goons are arresting people trying. That is how Sandmonkey got caught, not as a result of any deliberate arrest by the authorities.
Thanks Ayisha for the info!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Let the VP govern until the general elections are held.
Finally something we can both agree on BUT unfortunately the people who support the uprising want nothing to do with Soliman or anyone else from the current regime either.
Egyptians need to find together solutions for themselves, it's their country and their lives will be affected be it good or bad.
I am just a foreigner voicing my own opinion on this forum.
Ladies, just allow me to recount a point raised on AJ yesterday. The caller whom I don't remember his name said that what was happening in Tahrir yesterday was a rehersal (brova in Arabic) for what'll happen in the next nine months if M is allowed to continue. He also said he had thirty years to implement reform, why should we believe him now. To be honest, this did make sense to me. Indeed if the security forces get away with it this time, then they'll be like mad dogs in the next nine months, possibly completely liquidating any oposition by whatever means. You've seen what they've done under the glarring light of international media, can you imagine what they'll do "when the carnival is over" as the Egyptians say. In addition, leaving the same people (most ministers in the new government are the same) in power for the next nine months means giving them the oportunity to maximise their stealing. A bit like Ali Baba when he got into the cave and wanted to take as much as possible before the gang is back. So, we'll have another Ali Baba situation with the deadline after nine months.
I think we've reached the point of no return. But who'll hold on for longer. As one of you says, the average people in the street are starting to suffer, and maybe the regime is banking on that.
Just another view, among many.
I truly believe if HM or OS remain in power until the next elections, many people will go “missing.” Amn Al Dowla will have a feast, and even some foreigners on ES are spooked by them whether they like to admit it or not.
Sure Sandmonkey got released but he's practically a celeb, who has influential admirers. Mahmoud and Mohamed of the ordinary citizen variety are game.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: I am not sure why so much hate for the regime from your side as foreigners. I guess because you are all affiliated with Egyptians who didn't have it good under Mubarak.
Tiger, you are jumping to assumptions without even bothering to ask people what exactly they think of Mubarak and why.
Your comment is very patronizing. Firstly, you are suggesting that those who are "well off" under Mubarak don't loathe him. Secondly, you are suggesting that those who want Mubarak to step down base their opinion solely on their friends' opinions and conditions.
Personally, I have lots of friends and acquaintances who live quite well under Mubarak, or despite of him, whichever way you'd like to see it. They are well-off or even rich, not only by Egyptian, but also by international standards. They have jobs they love, freedom to travel, some send their kids to universities abroad and so on. Yet they loathe Mubarak and want to see him go. There is much more to "having it good" than material wealth and relative freedom within a repressive system.
I also know people who would prefer that Mubarak stays for the time being, despite the fact that their lifes are anything but easy, for whatever reason.
Also – hating Mubarak and wanting him to step down right now are two entirely different things. I haven't had the time and energy to read every post in this thread, but my impression was that the foreigners who were voicing their opinions here don't just harbour some sort of hate against Mubarak – as you are suggesting – but rather that they understand where the hate of so many Egyptians is coming from.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
Egyptians are living now really in fear of what tomorrow will bring. What is so hard to understand?
Countless Egyptians have been living with that sort of fear for years or decades, it's nothing new. They've been living in fear of not being able to feed their kids, of losing their job from one day to the next, in fear of stating their opinion publicly, in fear of running into a police officer who just has a bad day, and so on …
The current fear is different in a way because it's tied to events that unfolded unexpectedly and very quickly. That's scary in a way, but also there is a certain sense of freedom, community and power in the air, which might or might not get carried beyond those days. That might be hard to believe when you're sitting in front of your TV watching reports from Tahrir on the news, but it's quite tangible for those of us being out on the streets here on a daily basis.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Anyone know what happened to the guy who posted here on occasion, who had the website "From London to Cairo"? I got a notice that there was a new post up today but when I go to his website it appears that there's nothing there and the spot is just being saved??
Yeah his sister was marrying an Egyptian, and he's in Cairo for work as well?
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Asmaa Mahfouz, the girl who helped spark the revolution:
posted by iyadelbaghdadi This vlog was recorded on January 18th by Asmaa Mahfouz, the girl who helped start it all. She had shared it on her Facebook, and it had gone viral. It was so powerful and so popular, that it drove Egyptians by the thousands into Tahrir Square, and drove the Egyptian government to block Facebook . I'll shut up now and let Asma talk.
OMG this is a link from sandmonkeys twitter page. Its terrifying. It even shows someone being reversed over
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
x
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
well said Dalia, as always!
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Days of Rage: Uprisings Planned Across Mideast, North Africa Libya, Algeria Outlaw Soccer to Avoid Protests by Jason Ditz, February 02, 2011
When the revolution comes, everyone will be prepared. At least in Northern Africa and the Middle East, where upsurges of optimism from the increasingly successful revolts in Tunisia and Egypt have led other nations’ oppositions to plan dates for their own.
Egypt’s January 25 was such a decisive moment in that nation’s history, and Thursday, February 3 has ambitious Yemenis looking to repeat the success. Syria has penciled in Saturday, February 5, while Algeria, Bahrain and Libya all have “days of rage” planned in the next two weeks.
Of course the downside to having a pre-set “day of rage” like this is that it gives the regimes ample time to prepare curbs on personal freedom that they assume will make everything all better. To that end, Algeria and Libya have announced blanket bans on soccer through the foreseeable future.
Which seems an odd strategy, as if anything the ban on the most popular support and the cancellation of matches much of the nation was looking forward to will probably underscore to the public just how wrong things have gotten, and give them all the more time to dwell on their regimes’ corruption.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Anyone know what happened to the guy who posted here on occasion, who had the website "From London to Cairo"? I got a notice that there was a new post up today but when I go to his website it appears that there's nothing there and the spot is just being saved??
Yeah his sister was marrying an Egyptian, and he's in Cairo for work as well?
HE is married to an Egyptian and they and their children moved from London to Cairo and work there.
He must've relocated back to london, and had those kids to relocate since december 2010.
Fast dude.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Yemen’s Nationwide ‘Day of Anger’ Dialogue Between Saleh Regime and Opposition Reportedly Halted by Jason Ditz, February 02, 2011
Offers by President Ali Abdullah Saleh not to run for re-election in 2013 appear to have fallen far short of the demands by opposition protesters for democracy in Yemen, and opposition figures have dubbed Thursday, Feburary 3, a “Day of Anger” across the nation.
Protests against the Saleh regime have been growing over the past two weeks, spreading beyond the capital and now reports of even smaller towns having protesters are common, though figures are unreliable in Yemen.
Opposition figures now say that the talks with the Saleh regime have entirely broken down, and that the protests are their only recourse. The ruling party insisted that attempts to “imitate” the Egyptian revolution would fail.
Yemeni officials have been insisting from the beginning that Yemen is nothing like Egypt, but it must be remembered that Egyptian officials were also saying Egypt was nothing like Tunisia when the protests there began. As with the other nations, Yemen has a dictatorial president and a crumbling economy, which seems to make it fertile ground for a revolt. They also, unlike Egypt and Tunisia, have active secessionist movements on both sides of the country.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
For local folk... A western friend if mine was attacked at knifepoint in heliopolis earlier by plain clothed police. Good luck everyone in volatile areas. I am officially bowing out, this is my home but I value my life.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
x
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: [QUOTE]Originally posted by metinoot: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by LovedOne: [qb] Anyone know what happened to the guy who posted here on occasion, who had the website "From London to Cairo"? I got a notice that there was a new post up today but when I go to his website it appears that there's nothing there and the spot is just being saved??
Yeah his sister was marrying an Egyptian, and he's in Cairo for work as well?
HE is married to an Egyptian and they and their children moved from London to Cairo and work there.
I'd say, did he take it down himself or did he have help?
I didn't read the entire blog before it got taken down.
But I distinctly remember him refering to be single.
But I could be wrong. Anyhow. At least I can admit to the possibility of being wrong, which is something you've never done.
EDIT: damn it, screw it he could've taken down the blog in order to protect himself from the mubarak regime.
It might be a great policy not to post information from blogs taken down in order to help protect them. Even if Mubarak does leave, I don't believe the Ministry of Interior will let alot of this go.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: For local folk... A western friend if mine was attacked at knifepoint in heliopolis earlier by plain clothed police. Good luck everyone in volatile areas. I am officially bowing out, this is my home but I value my life.
Sorry to hear that Cheeky. Egyptian State TV has been inciting hate towards foreigners by labeling them as saboteurs for the past 2 days. Omar Sulayman's interview earlier today reinforced those fabrications.
The NDP thugs, especially those whose livelihoods are at stake such as Police and other Ministry of Interior employees are more prone to believe that those fabrications. This is bultageeyeh/thuggery at its worst.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
x
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Sono, just go play with some traffic will ya. Believe whatever you like, single, married, black, white, sky blue pink with spots, I really don't care. If you have nothing to say ON THE SUBJECT OF THE THREAD then go play somewhere else where I will be more than happy to argue with you. His details I have posted, email him and ask him.
Then why bother arguing about it in the first place, as soon as I post anything you jump all over it just to argue.
I don't believe you actually have the self-control not to attack my posts. I don't remember a single day over the last 16 months in which you didn't attack my posts.
Anyhow you say nothing about the protests in Luxor. Are you bothering to look outside your window?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: For local folk... A western friend if mine was attacked at knifepoint in heliopolis earlier by plain clothed police. Good luck everyone in volatile areas. I am officially bowing out, this is my home but I value my life.
Sorry to hear that Cheeky. Egyptian State TV has been inciting hate towards foreigners by labeling them as saboteurs for the past 2 days. Omar Sulayman's interview earlier today reinforced those fabrications. The NDP thugs, especially those whose livelihoods are at stake such as Police and other Ministry of Interior employees are more prone to believe that those fabrications. This is bultageeyeh/thuggery at its worst.
Part of the problem is before the protests are over he calls for "investigations".
Intentionally its set, the protesters must continue to protest in order to avoid the wrath by the Ministry of Interior that follows. And the Police, Security Services and Ministry of Interior must continue to avoid total fallout of their system, to avoid consequences of over 20 years of tyranny.
Only one side gets a reprieve. If that.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
x
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Yeah Exiiled... It hasn't been the best in my part of town since the bomb at New Year in Alex. Second time I have been forced to evacuate the ME in 20 years!!! And both times the Brit Embassy were more than useless!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Part of the problem is before the protests are over he calls for "investigations".
Intentionally its set, the protesters must continue to protest in order to avoid the wrath by the Ministry of Interior that follows. And the Police, Security Services and Ministry of Interior must continue to avoid total fallout of their system, to avoid consequences of over 20 years of tyranny.
Only one side gets a reprieve. If that.
The investigations they are claiming are about the pro mubarak thugs, not the anti govt protestors. It's over 30 years. But I agree, they cannot stop and will not stop now, they have come too far.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
Give it a rest Ayisha.
I understand Sulyman claimed he'd investigate his own peeps, which I stated the investigations were rash and only give fuel to pro-Mubarak demonstrators.
As in this dude:
Prosecutors announced an assets freeze and travel ban against the former interior minister, Habib el-Adly, whose police forces led a fierce crackdown against the protests when they initially broke out on Jan. 25.
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Egyptian State TV has been inciting hate towards foreigners by labeling them as saboteurs for the past 2 days. Omar Sulayman's interview earlier today reinforced those fabrications.
Personally, I don't feel any aggression towards foreigners, rather the opposite. The general atmosphere, as absurd as it may sound, seems sort of relaxed and friendly; there's a communal spirit and much less of the often encountered sexually charged and aggressive attitude towards foreign women. I might be wrong, but the vibe I am getting is that people generally appreciate it if foreigners stay here and try to get on with their daily lives.
Then, of course, I can only speak for my part of town …
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Yeah Exiiled... It hasn't been the best in my part of town since the bomb at New Year in Alex. Second time I have been forced to evacuate the ME in 20 years!!! And both times the Brit Embassy were more than useless!
So what are your plans? How will you proceed? Are you leaving with your parents? I'm sure the tickets should be no problem as you can buy those online, but in a practical sense, what's the reality of it all?
You mentioned you are in Ain Sokhna, how urgent do you feel the situation is? You might go to heliplois and perhaps reconsider?
Sorry for sounding like a journalist, but that's all I've been listening to past 10 or so days.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Egyptian State TV has been inciting hate towards foreigners by labeling them as saboteurs for the past 2 days. Omar Sulayman's interview earlier today reinforced those fabrications.
Personally, I don't feel any aggression towards foreigners, rather the opposite. The general atmosphere, as absurd as it may sound, seems sort of relaxed and friendly; there's a communal spirit and much less of the often encountered sexually charged and aggressive attitude towards foreign women. I might be wrong, but the vibe I am getting is that people generally appreciate it if foreigners stay here and try to get on with their daily lives.
Then, of course, I can only speak for my part of town …
Thats how it's been here too.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Egyptian State TV has been inciting hate towards foreigners by labeling them as saboteurs for the past 2 days. Omar Sulayman's interview earlier today reinforced those fabrications.
Personally, I don't feel any aggression towards foreigners, rather the opposite. The general atmosphere, as absurd as it may sound, seems sort of relaxed and friendly; there's a communal spirit and much less of the often encountered sexually charged and aggressive attitude towards foreign women. I might be wrong, but the vibe I am getting is that people generally appreciate it if foreigners stay here and try to get on with their daily lives.
Then, of course, I can only speak for my part of town …
Thanks for sharing that. And I don't think the atmosphere you are describing is absurd at all. There have been posts and reports of “Carnival/Festive” like feeling atmosphere. And that has been relayed by many Egyptians and foreigners through online means. However the atmosphere especially in conflict areas such as Tahrir and some areas of Alex have changed the past 36-48hrs. Basically areas where pro-Mubarak thugs are making their presence felt.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
According to aje mubarak made comments to abc tv in usa. He said he would like to step down but was afraid of chaos. Also he is tired and wants to go. Anyone have a link to interview?
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
when was the interview, Adelly? on ABC ?
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: EDIT: damn it, screw it he could've taken down the blog in order to protect himself from the mubarak regime.
Yup jackpot. That's what he did.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: According to aje mubarak made comments to abc tv in usa. He said he would like to step down but was afraid of chaos. Also he is tired and wants to go. Anyone have a link to interview?
Think this is what you're looking for adelly.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Yeah Exiiled... It hasn't been the best in my part of town since the bomb at New Year in Alex. Second time I have been forced to evacuate the ME in 20 years!!! And both times the Brit Embassy were more than useless!
So what are your plans? How will you proceed? Are you leaving with your parents? I'm sure the tickets should be no problem as you can buy those online, but in a practical sense, what's the reality of it all?
You mentioned you are in Ain Sokhna, how urgent do you feel the situation is? You might go to heliplois and perhaps reconsider?
Sorry for sounding like a journalist, but that's all I've been listening to past 10 or so days.
I am currently in Ain Sokhna but had plans to travel back to Cairo on Saturday anyway as we just wanted to get Friday out the way. I currently have people in the UK looking, and I too am currently looking for flights that fit around the curfew. I have stated all along that I am prepared to stay in my home as I am not scared of much but I have to consider the fact that my family are freaking the hell out because of the media ... even after having a man shot dead in the next street! However finding out that westerners ARE being dragged out of vehicles at knife point in Heliopolis I no longer think it would be wise to stick around. I know of many folk evacuating to the Red Sea but after 10days there is only so much hotel food one can eat!!!! Also, I cannot work, I hate being house bound as I am pretty hyper and I am not prepared to sit around watching the News any longer!
So, flight out for a couple of weeks and if it gets any worse here I will come back at the end of March and if not I will return in 2 weeks, water my plants and fly back to the UK start of March as planned...
The reality... Cairo is in the middle of a very volatile situation that seems to have no end in sight... the reality is that although 99.9% of Egyptians are wonderful, kind people it only takes one radical nutter with a knife to ruin my day!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
haha, the old crone beat the youngster Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Yeah someone just posted on my FB that the manager of Hyper1 said 'a foreigner' was involved in the fire.
It was probably a totally normal electrical fault that would have been dealt with swiftly under normal circumstances. Blimey I remember the shopping centre in Walthamstow going up in flames one Saturday night in about 2005 because of an electrical fault - what a smell that made!
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Yeah Exiiled... It hasn't been the best in my part of town since the bomb at New Year in Alex. Second time I have been forced to evacuate the ME in 20 years!!! And both times the Brit Embassy were more than useless!
So what are your plans? How will you proceed? Are you leaving with your parents? I'm sure the tickets should be no problem as you can buy those online, but in a practical sense, what's the reality of it all?
You mentioned you are in Ain Sokhna, how urgent do you feel the situation is? You might go to heliplois and perhaps reconsider?
Sorry for sounding like a journalist, but that's all I've been listening to past 10 or so days.
I am currently in Ain Sokhna but had plans to travel back to Cairo on Saturday anyway as we just wanted to get Friday out the way. I currently have people in the UK looking, and I too am currently looking for flights that fit around the curfew. I have stated all along that I am prepared to stay in my home as I am not scared of much but I have to consider the fact that my family are freaking the hell out because of the media ... even after having a man shot dead in the next street! However finding out that westerners ARE being dragged out of vehicles at knife point in Heliopolis I no longer think it would be wise to stick around. I know of many folk evacuating to the Red Sea but after 10days there is only so much hotel food one can eat!!!! Also, I cannot work, I hate being house bound as I am pretty hyper and I am not prepared to sit around watching the News any longer!
So, flight out for a couple of weeks and if it gets any worse here I will come back at the end of March and if not I will return in 2 weeks, water my plants and fly back to the UK start of March as planned...
The reality... Cairo is in the middle of a very volatile situation that seems to have no end in sight... the reality is that although 99.9% of Egyptians are wonderful, kind people it only takes one radical nutter with a knife to ruin my day! [/QUOT] like like like like sorry no like button
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: EDIT: damn it, screw it he could've taken down the blog in order to protect himself from the mubarak regime.
Yup jackpot. That's what he did.
Still of the opinion its best for the Egyptian anti-government protesters to abandon their human rights and democracy for "stability"?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I stand with the Egyptian people. http://j.mp/StandWithEgypt -- Join me by making this your status message today!
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has said he would like to resign immediately but fears the country would descend into chaos if he did so.
In his first interview since anti-government protests across Egypt began 10 days ago, he told ABC News he was "fed up" with power.
But he warned that the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood party would fill any power vacuum if he stepped down.
He denied his supporters were behind the violence of the last two days.
Speaking to ABC's Christiane Amanpour, he vowed never to leave, saying: "I would never run away from this country. I will die on this soil."
He added that it hurt him to him to see "Egyptian fighting Egyptian".
News of the interview follows a day of violence in central Cairo, with anti-government protesters clashing with Mr Mubarak's supporters.
Stones were thrown on both sides, and there has been some gunfire.
The army, which was trying to separate the two sides, appears to have failed to control the crowds.
Egypt's Health Minister Ahmed Samih Farid said that eight people had died in the fighting, which began on Wednesday, and 890 were injured, nine of them critically.
Another person was later reported killed in clashes on Abdel Monem Riyad Square, also in central Cairo. Many more were injured.
The BBC's Khaled Ezzelarab in Cairo says the shift in focus from Tahrir Square to Abdel Monem Riyad Square appears to indicate a strategic advance for the anti-Mubarak protesters, who have managed to hold their ground in Tahrir and move the clashes elsewhere.
Meanwhile US state department spokesman Philip Crowley has urged Mr Mubarak to move "farther and faster" with the transition.
Earlier Mr Mubarak's deputy, Omar Suleiman, called for time to carry out political reforms before presidential elections in September.
He warned there would be a political vacuum if a proper period of transition was not allowed.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
I bet Mubarak felt like Palin after Congressperson Giffords was shot.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Yeah Exiiled... It hasn't been the best in my part of town since the bomb at New Year in Alex. Second time I have been forced to evacuate the ME in 20 years!!! And both times the Brit Embassy were more than useless!
So what are your plans? How will you proceed? Are you leaving with your parents? I'm sure the tickets should be no problem as you can buy those online, but in a practical sense, what's the reality of it all?
You mentioned you are in Ain Sokhna, how urgent do you feel the situation is? You might go to heliplois and perhaps reconsider?
Sorry for sounding like a journalist, but that's all I've been listening to past 10 or so days.
I am currently in Ain Sokhna but had plans to travel back to Cairo on Saturday anyway as we just wanted to get Friday out the way. I currently have people in the UK looking, and I too am currently looking for flights that fit around the curfew. I have stated all along that I am prepared to stay in my home as I am not scared of much but I have to consider the fact that my family are freaking the hell out because of the media ... even after having a man shot dead in the next street! However finding out that westerners ARE being dragged out of vehicles at knife point in Heliopolis I no longer think it would be wise to stick around. I know of many folk evacuating to the Red Sea but after 10days there is only so much hotel food one can eat!!!! Also, I cannot work, I hate being house bound as I am pretty hyper and I am not prepared to sit around watching the News any longer!
So, flight out for a couple of weeks and if it gets any worse here I will come back at the end of March and if not I will return in 2 weeks, water my plants and fly back to the UK start of March as planned...
The reality... Cairo is in the middle of a very volatile situation that seems to have no end in sight... the reality is that although 99.9% of Egyptians are wonderful, kind people it only takes one radical nutter with a knife to ruin my day!
Best of luck Cheeky, we all know how much you love Egypt. But it will always be waiting for you when things eventually calm down. Look at the bright side, you'll have that pint of Guinness much sooner than you thought. Have a safe journey home.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Yeah Exiiled... It hasn't been the best in my part of town since the bomb at New Year in Alex. Second time I have been forced to evacuate the ME in 20 years!!! And both times the Brit Embassy were more than useless!
So what are your plans? How will you proceed? Are you leaving with your parents? I'm sure the tickets should be no problem as you can buy those online, but in a practical sense, what's the reality of it all?
You mentioned you are in Ain Sokhna, how urgent do you feel the situation is? You might go to heliplois and perhaps reconsider?
Sorry for sounding like a journalist, but that's all I've been listening to past 10 or so days.
I am currently in Ain Sokhna but had plans to travel back to Cairo on Saturday anyway as we just wanted to get Friday out the way. I currently have people in the UK looking, and I too am currently looking for flights that fit around the curfew. I have stated all along that I am prepared to stay in my home as I am not scared of much but I have to consider the fact that my family are freaking the hell out because of the media ... even after having a man shot dead in the next street! However finding out that westerners ARE being dragged out of vehicles at knife point in Heliopolis I no longer think it would be wise to stick around. I know of many folk evacuating to the Red Sea but after 10days there is only so much hotel food one can eat!!!! Also, I cannot work, I hate being house bound as I am pretty hyper and I am not prepared to sit around watching the News any longer!
So, flight out for a couple of weeks and if it gets any worse here I will come back at the end of March and if not I will return in 2 weeks, water my plants and fly back to the UK start of March as planned...
The reality... Cairo is in the middle of a very volatile situation that seems to have no end in sight... the reality is that although 99.9% of Egyptians are wonderful, kind people it only takes one radical nutter with a knife to ruin my day!
Best of luck Cheeky, we all know how much you love Egypt. But it will always be waiting for you when things eventually calm down. Look at the bright side, you'll have that pint of Guinness much sooner than you thought. Have a safe journey home.
Cheers dude, I will be in touch. I won't be reading and trawling through all the ES BS that I am seeing as per but I will notify you of anything real if I see it Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
CF I have a bottle of Bollenger on ice for us now mate. Cant wait to see you and your mum safe on english soil soon.
Do you need me to call again before bed. I am hanging around on line and i have facebook and email notifications on my iphone so if you write on my wall or send an email i will get it immediately so i can call in an emergency
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
LondonToCairo Sam Welbeck Get everyone you know following these tweets NOW PLEASE!! Many foreigners arrested may be in this prison - I'm getting more info #Jan25 2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
LondonToCairo Sam Welbeck Egyptians and foreigners arrested are being separated and held separately but bound blindfolded beaten and threatened #Jan25 26 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply
That's what Egypt should be known for Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
@ CF, take care girl and get ur azz back as soon as things work out for this country..pray for us. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Are there any journalists in Tehrir Square? Because the BBC just seems to be reruns now - nothing current.
Definitely seems to be a u-turn going on. Their reporting is turning pro-Mubarak. Is this what happens at the mention of the Muslim Brotherhood getting in?
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Another view: Lovely picture. Christians protecting Muslims while they pray.
(in case you're wondering, the hand gesture indicates someone lost their mind.) Oh boy, don't you just love the Egyptians!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Something is going on here. There is a complete media blackout.
If cameras are being removed causing a blackout this is really worrying.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Are there any journalists in Tehrir Square? Because the BBC just seems to be reruns now - nothing current.
Definitely seems to be a u-turn going on. Their reporting is turning pro-Mubarak. Is this what happens at the mention of the Muslim Brotherhood getting in?
It sounded pretty darn pro-Mubarak earlier this week.
Whenever they interviewed an Egyptian in the protests, or "analysts" they probed purely in regards to the Camp David Accords.
NPR gets most of its Egypt coverage from BBC, and I am writing a letter asking for an alternative organization for coverage and scrape BBC reports.
I wish NYtimes had a radio news program. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
They've definitely swung around. They were all for democracy til Mubarak spoke to that reporter and mentioned the Muslim Brotherhood. They're definitely spooked.
If anyone knows anyone who knows anyone whose there now, please God they get out safe.
Maybe it's a rumour to get people to panic and leave.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I'm watching it on tv not net. She's finished now. Basically if I heard her correctly and the sound was dodgy - I think she was saying that people were being wound up - running off this way and that - like psychological warfare, but optimistic for tomorrow.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
it doesn't seem as bad from AJ arabic. Apparantly speaking live with people in Tahrir
sounds like psychological warfare
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
When the police pulled out, you could see what happened. The protesters were coming for days, more and more, and they just got tired. Maybe they're trying to reverse the cycle. Tire out the protesters psychologically so that they leave.
I just find the lack of media there disturbing.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis: it doesn't seem as bad from AJ arabic. Apparantly speaking live with people in Tahrir
The caller said there are so many pro-democracy protestors in the midan that effectively they are protecting the army not the other way around!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Pro-democracy, not anti-government now? That's progress.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Pro-democracy, not anti-government now? That's progress.
Sorry, those were my words not his. I prefer to call them "for" something rather than "against" something, makes it more positive and constructive rather than destructive.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
This is one thing that does concern me about the neighbourhood watch groups. They're normal guys with day jobs (ok not right now while everyone is staying home) but they're all out every day - albeit doing 4 hour shifts on top of what they're supposed to be doing - some of them are feeling very very tired. I don't know if the organizers have planned in total days/nights off this - they will need to if we need to keep this up.
BTW show the rumour machine at work - I was told by one person repeating what she had been told the other day that 120 convicts had come over here in a lorry and looted. I heard from a different person today that she had been told that 5 convicts had shown up and where so subdued that most of them handed themselves in. It's almost like they were planted here rather than escaped here.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Two Islamic groups took time out from demonstrating for the end of the Mubarak regime and the beginning of Muslim Brotherhood rule
(AINA) -- News of a massacre of two Christian Coptic families by Islamists just emerged from Upper Egypt with the return of the Internet connections after a week of Internet blackout by the Egyptian regime. The massacre took place on Sunday, January 30 at 3 PM in the village of Sharona near Maghagha, Minya province. Two Islamists groups, aided by the Muslim neighbors, descended on the roof of houses owned by Copts, killing eleven Copts, including children, and seriously injuring four others.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
You would think they were on opposite sides of the globe. This is weird.
The video that fahadgroup posted was the horses from the other day and he posted it like its happening now
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
February 3, 2011 by Robert Spencer Poll shows Egyptians in favor of democracy and stoning for adultery
Discussions in the mainstream media about demands for democracy in Egypt have tended to treat such goals as mutually exclusive. But as we have seen in Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan, democracy and representative governments do not guarantee the protection of human rights and civil liberties.
Once again, a democracy is only as good as the values that inform its participants.
Case in point: Yesterday on Fox News, Zuhdi Jasser claimed that "The Egyptian people are no different from us as Americans." One could go on all day about that, citing the prevalence of female genital mutilation in Egypt among other things, but this poll amply proves that a desire for democracy does not guarantee a desire for human rights by standards Westerners would even recognize.
Projecting a Western understanding of concepts like liberty, justice, and good government onto such terms as they are employed by those in favor of Sharia law (not to mention the Muslim Brotherhood) only sets up the naïve for profound disappointments and awful surprises.
As Einstein said, the definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." And joyfully welcoming another regime that pledges fidelity (and therefore ties its legitimacy) to Islamic law certainly fits that definition. "Poll shows Egyptians favour democracy and stoning for adultery," from Reuters, February 3 web page
Egyptians reject radical Islamists, but want Islam to play a large role in politics and think democracy is the best political system, according to poll data collected in Muslim countries last year. The sample group of 1,000 was surveyed in face-to-face interviews in April and May of last year for the U.S.-based Pew Research Center. These results give an idea of Egyptian public opinion before the current protests there broke out.Look at the results below for adultery, apostasy, and theft.
But "Egyptians reject radical Islamists." So... are these the moderates?
Democracy 59%: Say democracy is preferable to any other form of government.
22%: Say a non-democratic system can be preferable in certain circumstancesIslam in politics
95%: Say it's good that Islam plays a large role in politics
85%: Say Islam's influence on politics is good
48%: Say Islam currently play a large role in Egyptian politicsIslamist extremism
80%: Think suicide bombings are never or rarely justified.
20%: Think suicide bombings are sometimes or often justified
70%: Are concerned or very concerned about Islamist extremism in the world
61%: Are concerned or very concerned about Islamist extremism in the Egypt
Traditional Muslim practices
54%: Believe men and women should be segregated in the workplace
82%: Believe adulterers should be stoned Just like Muhammad.
84%: Believe apostates from Islam should face the death penalty Just like Muhammad.
77%: Believe thieves should be flogged or have their hands cut off Qur'an 5:38 prescribes amputation.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Vwwvv - might I ask - where are you from?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: February 3, 2011 Poll shows Egyptians in favor of democracy and stoning for adultery
Send a message to the people of Egypt! Call the Coffee Party Speak-Out Line: 301-259-1869. We'll turn your messages into a video, "Messages from America."
Could you help us find a volunteer to translate it into Arabic?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Vwwvv - might I ask - where are you from?
She's Danish, and she's been on this forum with over 15 different usernames since 2004.
I can't find it but she had a break down at one point when MK and a couple others cornered her for her ongoing **** posts. Former revert and former wife of some Arab, but her ex husband wasn't egyptian.
Its sad that after 6 years she still can carry around so much resentment and hurt. Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
LondonToCairo Sam Welbeck Eyewitness acct - DO NOT TRUST THE ARMY - they are handing protesters to police for beating if they leave the square PLS RT
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
Problem with that, is Jihad watch has no copyrights via associated press, and globeandmail does.
If jihad watch copy and pasted it onto its website it would be liable to globeandmail. But not the otherway around.
Much like ChristianScienceMonitor.
CSM used to be your newsmedia website of choice and now CSM has gone quite liberal, you've turned to jihadwatch.org
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
LondonToCairo Sam Welbeck Its Official - released protester just told me that THE ARMY handed him over to the police after beating him.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Meanwhile Iran is dreaming:
The overthrow of regimes in power in a number of Arab countries, including Egypt, would lead to an improvement in their relations with Iran and the creation of ''an Islamic and powerful Middle East capable of opposing Israel''. The comments were made today by Iran's Foreign Minister, Ramin Mehman-Parast.
They're dead chuffed in Iran over events in Egypt, and are supporting the protesters. Ironic, in light of how ruthlessly they put down their own protests?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
For me Egyptians can elect whoever they like - bring in Shariah - it's a Muslim country - they have the right to do what they like. The fact that their rights are being denied is what upsets me.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Thanks MM, tried to post that too but I think my brain has given in.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
haha i think i need sleep too now. my eyes are hurting and my head is pounding. I havent done this much ES for 2 years now haha
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
dtcav: RT @NarinderSingh: More protests in Cairo's Tahrir Square. Why does every revolution begin at a square? I want a demonstration in a circle.
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: For me Egyptians can elect whoever they like - bring in Shariah - it's a Muslim country - they have the right to do what they like. The fact that their rights are being denied is what upsets me.
Exactly! To be honest I wont be happy if they do get in here, but I think anyone who does get in will be very closely watched and rightly so it is up to the Egyptian people to decide. I doubt they will get in though, but who knows.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
OK i must sleep now. My love to everyone involved
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
@ Ayisha: I don't think it went unnoticed that they were dead against the protests at the outset, then suddenly thought it was a smashing idea when things when things swung around so quickly - but you're right. It's completely up to the Egyptian people.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Meanwhile Iran is dreaming:
The overthrow of regimes in power in a number of Arab countries, including Egypt, would lead to an improvement in their relations with Iran and the creation of ''an Islamic and powerful Middle East capable of opposing Israel''. The comments were made today by Iran's Foreign Minister, Ramin Mehman-Parast.
They're dead chuffed in Iran over events in Egypt, and are supporting the protesters. Ironic, in light of how ruthlessly they put down their own protests?
* Breitbart o breitbart.com is a top 5,000 site o Rank:3,298 o Category: News > Directories o Keywords: big hollywood, breitbart, andrew breitbart, tmz, big government * breitbart.tv o breitbart.tv is a top 50,000 site o Rank:10,004 o Keywords: breitbart, tv, inflatable toy, pat robertson, single payer * darwiniana.com o darwiniana.com is not in the top 100,000 sites o Rank:2,963,924 o Keywords: gurdjieff and dawkins, karen armstrong, nature vs nurture, intelligent design, reinventing
Breitbart changed his political views after "an interesting epiphany" during the Clarence Thomas hearings. He now describes himself as "a Reagan conservative" who has "sympathies towards the libertarian side of issues."[2
Breitbart often appears as a speaker at Tea Party movement events across the U.S. For example, Breitbart was a keynote speaker at the first National Tea Party Convention at Gaylord Opryland Hotel in Nashville on February 6, 2010.[18] Breitbart later became involved in a controversy over alleged racial and homophobic slurs being used at a March 20, 2010 rally at the United States Capitol in Washington, D.C. by offering to donate $100,000 to the United Negro College Fund "for any audio/video footage of the N-word being hurled". To date, Breitbart has not credited anyone for presenting such footage.
In otherwords he's Denmark's sweetheart.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: For me Egyptians can elect whoever they like - bring in Shariah - it's a Muslim country - they have the right to do what they like. The fact that their rights are being denied is what upsets me.
Their human rights should be respected yes, the problem is that Sharia violates those very rights.
"What is needed is nothing less than the secularization of Islamic society, and the establishment of the idea that individual conscience must be our guide and the judge of personal, private conduct. But secularization cannot be imposed from outside by force. Attempts by America and its allies to impose democracy and human rights on the Islamic world will rightly be resisted as neocolonialism and will simply drive more and more Muslims into the arms of the extremists. The onus is on us to promote the ideals of personal freedom, progress and change from within Muslim society, with help from those in the rest of the world who share our ideals and hopes for the future.
We call on all Muslims and all who value freedom, democracy and human rights to support our campaign: NO to Political Islam, YES to Human Rights."
@ radiosweden : Swedish TV correspondent Bert Sundström being treated for knife wounds in a Cairo hospital. http://bit.ly/hD7wnx
Today 3:18 PM All Video Feed Cut From Tahrir Square The New York Times reports that there is no longer any livefeed coming out of Tahrir Square, saying:
quote: By evening, it appeared that none of the major broadcasters were able to provide live footage of Tahrir Square, the epicenter of antigovernment protests. Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya television networks said their journalists had been hounded from the street and from the vantage points above the square where cameras had been placed, and both CNN and BBC appeared to be relying only on taped footage of the square. Jon Williams of the BBC said via Twitter that Egyptian security had seized the news agency’s equipment from the Cairo Hilton “in an attempt to stop us broadcasting.”
Today 3:10 PM ABC News Producer Threatened With Beheading ABC producer Brian Hartman was threatened with beheading by a group of men, as he reported:
quote: Just escaped after being carjacked at a checkpoint and driven to a compound where men surrounded the car and threatened to behead us.
CBS News chief foreign affairs correspondent Lara Logan has been detained, along with her crew, by Egyptian police, TIME reported Thursday afternoon.
Logan, who has been in Egypt since Monday, had been reporting from Alexandria but was detained outside the Israeli embassy in Cairo, according to TIME.
Wednesday, Logan filed a report about the Mubarak government "throttling" foreign press.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
I had heard Tony Blair was leaning towards "stability" and not so much in favor of the pro-democracy protesters.
What is the view among Brits right now?
That is, brits in Britain that don't have such a person stake in the protests?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Well Tony Bliar would - 1 million of us marched in Central London against the invasion of Iraq and he totally bloody well ignored us and did it anyway. But let's not derail the thread. Off to bed before my head explodes.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Why Sharia Law Must Be Opposed[/URL]
When was the last time you got laid vwwvv?
By a living breathing male-human male?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: I had heard Tony Blair was leaning towards "stability" and not so much in favor of the pro-democracy protesters.
What is the view among Brits right now?
That is, brits in Britain that don't have such a person stake in the protests?
They think it's bloody awful what happened to the mummies. We would have been happy to take safe care of them in the British Museum Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Well Tony Bliar would - 1 million of us marched in Central London against the invasion of Iraq and he totally bloody well ignored us and did it anyway. But let's not derail the thread. Off to bed before my head explodes.
I am just wondering what Brits thought of all this in the UK due to the kind of reporting coming out of the BBC.
For a couple days there, Tuesday and Wednesday it sounded like the 700 club had taken over.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Whose the 700 club?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: I had heard Tony Blair was leaning towards "stability" and not so much in favor of the pro-democracy protesters.
What is the view among Brits right now?
That is, brits in Britain that don't have such a person stake in the protests?
They think it's bloody awful what happened to the mummies. We would have been happy to take safe care of them in the British Museum
LondonToCairo Sam Welbeck Please excuse me I must go offline - please keep RT my last tweets - I'm going offline for a reason - please RT my last tweets
Its the news channel that has tempered the views of in regards to Americans as all being from the bible belt.
My grandmother would blare the 700 Club on Sunday morning to punish my grandfather for his activities on Saturday night. My grandfather could drink an entire case of beer in a sitting, and was a staunch liberal and quite agnostic.
It would make him crazy, and he'd leave the house for the weekend.
Google "Tammy Fay Baker" the images tab for a revolting laugh.
Pat Robertson was always going on about the Middle East and how Arabs must be purged from the Middle East so Jews could reclaim "God's Kingdom" and thus break about the Apocalypse and the seconding coming of Jesus. You might want to google a video on it, because Pat Robertson also gave these speeches with a hardon. Later Pat Robertson was ousted for "adultry" and begged his followers for forgiveness.
The nation was just shocked he was porking a woman and not a man. Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
I saw this tweet on London to cairos wall and didn't know what she meant so I went to her wall. It has her and a group of others say tahair is peaceful all is good but then if you follow each of their pages they turn out to be pro Mubarak supporters. It's funny how anti are terrified sending out messages of warning when pro are saying it's Peaceful
I don't know if it's scaremongering or spiders pulling flies into the web
LondonToCairo RT @sophie_tolba: @sophie_tolba @LondonToCairo i shall ivestigate the matter and report back - how can you do that? Who are you? 30 minutes ago
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Seriously though, here in the UK general conscensus seems to hinge on what is said by the BBC. It seems to be taken as gospel. Initially Brits were on the side of the protestors, because the BBC were, but there is a complete turnaround with them now after Mubarak's last interview.
They're banging on now about the Muslim Brotherhood. Mubarak is sharp - this has got them spooked.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Seriously though, here in the UK general conscensus seems to hinge on what is said by the BBC. It seems to be taken as gospel. Initially they were on the side of the people, because the BBC were, but there is a complete turnaround with them now after Mubarak's last interview.
They're banging on now about the Muslim Brotherhood. Mubarak is still sharp - this has got them spooked.
Exactly and thats why I am really concerned about the reporting of the protests by the BBC.
What the western leaders are concerned about, mainly, is a new Egypt government scraping the Camp David Accords.
Carter might've characterized himself as a democrat, but in reality he's a dixiecrat. Dixcrats staunchly side with the Zionist agenda. This biblical view of Israel affected how Carter pushed the Camp David Accord in the direction of Zionist, Christian and Jewish Zionist alike.
Sadat sold Palestines future and Arab unity for the price of a few helicopters and hollywood friends. then he was shot.
This does play into how western nations foreign policy will support or intervene to install another puppet at the Presidential Palace.
Which is why the BBC is trying to raly support for a Zionist view of the demonstrations.
Thats why I was pissed at the BBC.
Screw the Camp David Accords, support what is the will of the Egyptian people.
The assumption is that the MB will tear apart the Camp David Accords or disregard it. Problem with this concept is, the assumption is no Mubarak means only the MB will take over at the Presidential Palace.
thats not necessarily the case. This is fear mongering much in the same manner the NDP is using state television to spread false reports in favor of the police thugs.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Watched Question Time tonight and Claire Short had it sussed but the woman from the Daily Mail was doing all the scare tactics about Muslim extremists blah blah Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Good old Daily Mail
Where's Moanin Minnie and Penny?
BBC live coverage has stopped now.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
AJE is reporting was quiet overnight.
Haven't spoken to MoNing or Penny but they are in Alex and I have heard that things are a bit tougher up there. BUT I don't know.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I'm disgusted at BBC and co using the Muslim Brotherhood as a scare tactic if that is what they are doing. My dad was going on about BBC last night on the phone over my mum's shoulder but I said I get BBC World not regular BBC. He didn't say why he wanted me to watch it but it was probably that. It does spook people.
Like it or not, in a true democracy people can vote for 'the wrong party' and that is what concerns certain governments.
No more shall I say.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I'm disgusted at BBC and co using the Muslim Brotherhood as a scare tactic if that is what they are doing. My dad was going on about BBC last night on the phone over my mum's shoulder but I said I get BBC World not regular BBC. He didn't say why he wanted me to watch it but it was probably that. It does spook people.
Like it or not, in a true democracy people can vote for 'the wrong party' and that is what concerns certain governments.
No more shall I say.
Two points:
1. The Egyptian people really hasn't had free and fair elections before. Why not give them just an opportunity to vote in an election that isn't rigged?
Why deprive Egypt of democracy?
How many nations freed from dictators, have an actual free election and it gets worse? I can't think of one.
2. The BBC is trying so hard to filter out information that might paint a more sympathetic picture of the demonstrators.
Its obvious that the BBC has no other concern other than Israel and the Camp David Accords in its focus.
Crimedy even CNN is doing a better job of being impartial.
Very bad week for BBC to stoop to that level!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I have been really impressed with their reporting up until now. But I'm looking now - the live stream is back on but it's all reruns from last night. It may be they just don't have anyone in Tahrir Square anymore to keep it current.
I don't think Mr McCain's speech was particularly smart. Americans stamping their feet and saying you're not allowed to be led by the MB isn't going to help. I don't think it's a great idea. Shariah law combined with the amount of corruption (it isn't going to disappear overnight) is a scary prospect. Banging on about how Shariah law is a terrible thing in itself when you're addressing Muslims is downright stupid, however. He just reiterated that they need democracy, so long as they choose whoever America likes.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I'm disgusted at BBC and co using the Muslim Brotherhood as a scare tactic if that is what they are doing. My dad was going on about BBC last night on the phone over my mum's shoulder but I said I get BBC World not regular BBC. He didn't say why he wanted me to watch it but it was probably that. It does spook people.
Like it or not, in a true democracy people can vote for 'the wrong party' and that is what concerns certain governments.
No more shall I say.
Some guy put a message on a BBC message board saying that the brotherhood would take over and tall hell would be let loose...thus scaring people....I have put the whole view now and it is quitened down. The trouble with the UK is that they have only had the experience of the bombers and this is mostly from the Pakistani world...they have no understanding of other Muslim countries.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Ok that's Turkey, Maldives and now India. Out of 200 something nations. Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Revolution in Egypt and Beyond It's about time, says Doug Casey.
Doug: I'm not saying I favor the unpleasantness and inconvenience for so many people that comes with such events, but this upheaval is long overdue. These Arab countries have long been the most repressive places in the world, with the possible exception of the despotisms in Africa, to their south. It's very good to see these regimes being overthrown. And the revolution – hopefully that's what it is – is internally generated. It's not the product of an invasion by foreign troops from an alien culture, which is what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. Regime change in that whole part of the world is inevitable, necessary, and salubrious. The problematic question is: what are the old regimes going to be replaced with?
L: Fair enough. Let's take this one piece at a time… I think I know what you'll say, but do you think this is a fire that's going to spread, or were Tunisia and Egypt just particularly rickety?
Doug: I think it is going to spread, and I'll tell you why:
Betrayal Is that the eventual fate for the Egyptian revolution?
There is nothing in this dark and cynical world that is more beautiful than when a people rises up en masse against its suffocating and predatory political system and tells its murderous "leaders" to get the hell out of the country. Such a scene is all the more inspiring when it is motivated solely by the hope for freedom and prosperity, and the participants resort to the protest instead of the assault rifle. In the face of such a powerful grassroots lunge toward liberty, it is a foregone conclusion that the "leaders" of the country will eventually be forced to abdicate power and run for their lives. When this happens, the victorious and free people will fill the streets and countryside with joyous and uproarious song. They will have won the battle for liberty.
The truth is, however, that running the bastards out of town is at most only half the battle, because there are always plenty of bastards waiting in the wings to betray the revolution and assume power themselves. In fact, chances are that the new bastards have already made powerful contacts within the military and police and quiet agreements with foreign governments to reinstate a moderated form of the old system even before the old bastard is finally ousted. They will assume the throne and re-enslave the people, perhaps slightly less onerously than before, but enslave them nonetheless. [...]
Have heard from a friend up the road on another compound that the net might be going down again in Egypt today - not sure how true it is - rumours as we know are rife at the moment.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
And there are rumours of a march to the palace. This will affect certain roads to the airport.
News from airport this morning though, taxis ran as normal, roads in all clear and the airport is running well and it stinks like crapola and is dirty as hell. Advised to take own food, water and loo roll too. But most folk I know buggered off to the Novotel for a beer instead of sitting in hotel.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
I dont blame them
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
The BBC are streaming live again from Tahrir Square. I don't think I ever saw so many people. I have no sound but it looks peaceful.
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Captured on camera, the sickening moment a police van ploughed through the crowd in Cairo:
This is the sickening moment a police van ploughed through a crowd of innocent bystanders in a Cairo street.
Several people are run down by the van while countless others dive for cover as the vehicle drove through the crowd without slowing down.
I still not have the nerve to watch this.Dont think will. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
morning all, can anyone give a brief recap on what's been happening overnight or point me to somewhere, net is slow as a snail, woke up with thumping head and ran out of Cleopatra, ggggrrrr
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
@Sashyra If it's the one taken by Sandmonkey that was posted earlier in the thread, trucks were reversing over people on the bridge. It's horrendous. But we should see it. The world needs to be watching.
@Ayisha Last night was weird. At one point on twitter there was report after report of the army leaving, 80 - 100 cars full of pro Mubarak people arriving, then they were countered by reports that everything was calm. It would appear it was some kind of scare tactic - general conscensus was it was calm. There were absolutely no journos present though. Those who are braving it out were probably getting some shut eye for today.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Ayisha - as far as we know relatively quiet night was passed in Tahrir. No idea about the rest of Egypt.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Monkey... Don't turn up volume and judge with your own eyes whas hapenning. I suggest a lot of folk do that.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8:
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Captured on camera, the sickening moment a police van ploughed through the crowd in Cairo:
This is the sickening moment a police van ploughed through a crowd of innocent bystanders in a Cairo street.
Several people are run down by the van while countless others dive for cover as the vehicle drove through the crowd without slowing down.
I still not have the nerve to watch this.Dont think will.
sash, no one was hurt, miraculously. Just shows how much he loves his people though. Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Pro-M thugs and police preventing pro-democracy protestors from marching from Shoubra to Midan Tahrir. Using live fire to turn them back. Army simply watching.
AJ live
note: Shoubra is an area north of Cairo, but not too far from Tahrir.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak: It'll be chaos if I quit Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak said he wanted to step down but feared there would be chaos if he did so.
Caption on the picture: Street fight: Anti-government protesters throw stones at Mr Mubarak’s supporters in Cairo (Picture: AP)
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
even if you didnt want to see it, if your watching AJ they showed them both on there
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
The Metro paper is issued by the Daily Mail and it was them apparently spreading scare stories re the MB yesterday in the UK that freaked the Brits back home out.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
There doesn't seem to be any trouble. People are milling about, chanting, smiling. Doesn't look like an angry crowd anymore. Can't see any evidence of any pro Mubaraks.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: The Metro paper is issued by the Daily Mail and it was them apparently spreading scare stories re the MB yesterday in the UK that freaked the Brits back home out.
that's good to know...thanks.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: There doesn't seem to be any trouble. People are milling about, chanting, smiling. Doesn't look like an angry crowd anymore. Can't see any evidence of any pro Mubaraks.
I don't think there will be violence in Tahrir during daytime. Tantawi (Def. Minister), and other top Generals were there "inspecting" the Square.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
I spoke to Mr T yesterday and asked him about his feelings to outside influences. He said he doesn't know anyone himself that is mistrustful of foreigners but he said he doesn't care what other presidents prime ministers and leaders say because him and those he knows want this to be an Egyptian people win. Without outside influences. He said they need to do this for them and by themselves
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
AJ said 13 dead and 1000s injured last night
Posted by weirdkitty (Member # 15365) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8:
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Captured on camera, the sickening moment a police van ploughed through the crowd in Cairo:
This is the sickening moment a police van ploughed through a crowd of innocent bystanders in a Cairo street.
Several people are run down by the van while countless others dive for cover as the vehicle drove through the crowd without slowing down.
I still not have the nerve to watch this.Dont think will.
I don't know if it has already been mentioned on here, but I have seen a different video. A white car ran down countless people, you can see one person being flung off it as the car drives down the street. Does anyone know the deathcount for that, surely a least a few died? I will try to find the video...
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
WK i saw the same video and they just showed its on AJ. They said it was a miracle no one was killed
Posted by weirdkitty (Member # 15365) on :
I still not have the nerve to watch this.Dont think will.
I don't know if it has already been mentioned on here, but I have seen a different video. A white car ran down countless people, you can see one person being flung off it as the car drives down the street. Does anyone know the deathcount for that, surely a least a few died? I will try to find the video...
This same one was showed from different angles as far as I can see and no one was hurt. There is apparently another of a tank or car or something backing over people but not seen that one. If anyone can post that again please?
Listening to AJ live feed now
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Friday Tahrir Sermon: “the people reject American and outside influences, the people reject the opposition parties negotiating on the people behalf, if they want dialogue, it must be with the people”
also
“this revolution is not about religion and is not about any ideology, it is about all of Egypt right for freedom”
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Muslims and Christians praying together.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
mosaaberizing Mosa'ab Elshamy by Sandmonkey New comers applauded by us but foreigners are met with extra cheers. #Tahrir
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I don't know how to start writing this. I have been battling fatigue for not sleeping properly for the past 10 days, moving from one's friend house to another friend's house, almost never spending a night in my home, facing a very well funded and well organized ruthless regime that views me as nothing but an annoying bug that its time to squash will come[...]
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
Mr Father in law apparently walked out of Jom3ah prayers here... the Imam was blaming the demonstrators and saying that they are agents of the US/Israel etc... grrr...
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
wow thanks Monkey. Very moving, all of it.
I need to get out today!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by hmozachsown: Mr Father in law apparently walked out of Jom3ah prayers here... the Imam was blaming the demonstrators and saying that they are agents of the US/Israel etc... grrr...
apparently Zemalek mosque was saying that.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Sleazebags stick together:
1122: Italy's Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has made comments that sound very different in tone to those by other Western leaders. "I hope that in Egypt there can be a transition toward a more democratic system without a break from President Mubarak, who in the West, above all in the United States, is considered the wisest of men and a precise reference point," Reuters quotes him as saying. "I hope there can be continuity in government." (from BBC website)
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
His courage began the revolt in Egypt
When Mohamed Bouazizi, 26, went to the square of the small Tunisian town of Sidi Bouzid to open its fruit position he was in the usual visit from the police who demanded bribes.
What looked to be an everyday extortion of a corrupt government was about to write about the Arab world's history.
If this is known, however, Bouazizi nothing, because he almost two months ago burned himself to death in protest against the regime.
An equally gruesome as courageous action since the police confiscated his vegetable cart in retaliation because he did not want to pay bribes.
The imagesof his burning body sparked a massive popular anger. Violent protests followed each other on the streets of the capital Tunis, President Ben Ali tried to appease the protesters with reform promises, but it was too late, he was forced to flee the country.
I think of Bouzis now that the protests spread to Egypt. The same courage, the collective strength, the same reasonable anger in Tunisia.
I see the flow of images coming from Cairo's streets. The soldier who pray together with the protesters, the man who lifts up her baby in a tank, the civilian population to protect the museums treasures from looters.
Images similar to another image of enormous courage: the lonely young student who refused to move for the Chinese tank during the massacre in Tiananmen Square in 1989.
China's tyrants did. They are still there. But the country was forced to implement economic reforms and to some extent open up.
What will Bouazizis lead to suicide? There is as yet unknown. Ben Ali has given up. There has been considerable unrest in Yemen and Jordan.
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has sacked his government, but still clinging on to power. But it at all is reason to wonder what will happen in Egypt is sensational.
The dictator has ruled the country for 30 years with a very strong police and security apparatus and has been considered almost impossible to overturn.
One thing we do know. Individual people have previously written about the history, made the world better or worse.
* Gavrilo Princip shot and killed Prince Ferdinand in Sarajevo in 1914 sparked the First World War.
*The black woman, Rosa Parks refused in 1955 to give his seat on the bus to a white man, which marked the beginning of the modern American civil rights movement.
* The crane operator Anna Walentynowics struggle for redress after having been fired in Gdansk in 1980, which eventually led to the collapse of this bloc.
* It is possible that the region's dictators survive. It is possible that the overthrow and the Arab world more democratic. It is also quite possible that they brought down, and in some cases replaced by Islamic extremists.
But whatever happens, the young man's desperate protest gained enormous significance.
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
Ayisha...this was in Hadayeq el Quobba too Quite disheartening.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by hmozachsown: Ayisha...this was in Hadayeq el Quobba too Quite disheartening.
hm, there is widespread confusion now and they are working on peoples minds.
eg, an abused child will still scream if you try to take him away from his parent abuser, fear of worse, thats all he's known etc and if abuser has told him he would be worse off elsewhere without them panic and fear makes the child want the abuser, as its at least what he knows.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Amr Moussa coming into square, crowd excited.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
great now i am losing the internet here in England with all these gale force winds
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
i have lost AJ is it just me or has it gone off.
It says the video you are trying to watch is currently unavailable. Please try again later
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Maybe he's trying a different tactic and cutting outside off from us Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Ha ha maybe
ive got it again through your link but its cutting off a lot. guessing its the wind here
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
need twitter help as new to this
How to I post and have those links like #Jan25 #egypt and stuff like that or do I just type it?
edit: sorted, looked up help, duh, Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Egypt – Cradle of Self-Organization by Saul Kaplan
It’s hard to not be moved by the cri de coeur (cry of the heart) of the Egyptian people. A cry for freedom so loud the borders of Egypt can’t contain it. I don’t think I’m being hyperbolic in saying we are witness to the rise of a new world order. An era defined by entrenched public and private sector institutions is giving way, right before our eyes, to a new era defined by self-organization. While we have sensed the trend for a while the clarity and immediacy of the tangible quest for freedom in Cairo’s Tahrir (Liberation) Square is riveting and marks a global inflection point. There is no turning back. Not in Egypt and not anywhere in the world. Self-organized purposeful networks enabled by social media will not be stopped. Fasten your seat belts.
Clay Shirky had it right when he warned us, Here Comes Everybody. An era defined by self-organization is an equal opportunity disrupter. No institution will be unaffected. Any government not reflecting the will of the people isn’t sustainable. Equally unsustainable are education systems not reflecting the will of the student, health care systems not reflecting the will of the patient, corporations not reflecting the will of the consumer, and economies not reflecting the will of the entrepreneur. Our social systems and institutions need transformation not tweaks. Clay Christensen taught us that institutions do not disrupt themselves. Institutions will not lead the inevitable 21st century transformation, self-organized groups of committed and passionate people, like the crowds in Tahrir Square, will.
In an era defined by self-organization trading off democracy for stability won’t work. Institutions are designed for stability. They are designed to protect the status quo. They are designed to resist change and are allergic to even the hint of transformation. They are not designed to reflect the will of citizens, consumers, students, patients, and entrepreneurs. Institutions served us well in the industrial era but are not serving us well in the 21st century. We are now capable of self-organizing into purposeful networks that can bring about the transformation we want. We are just figuring out how to use our new network power. We are just figuring out we don’t have to wait for institutions to lead the way. The shift of power away from institutions will be messy. Entrenched institutions will not go quietly into the night. Transformations begun will inevitable have unintended consequences and we will have to learn as we go but there is no turning back. It isn’t transformation that is impossible it is sustaining the status quo that is impossible.
Watching the events unfold in Egypt has been mesmerizing. Who hasn’t been glued to CNN and the #Jan25 Twitter stream? It’s too soon to know the outcomes and there are many scary implications and scenarios that could be unleashed by the uprising. Regardless of the outcomes, when freedom is the underlying motivation, transformation is inevitable and its pace is quickening. When a butterfly flapped its wings in Tunisia it didn’t take long for the ripple effect to show up in Egypt. I think the ripple is just getting started.
Ancient Egypt had a remarkable and lasting effect on human civilization. It is often referred to as a cradle of civilization. Perhaps modern Egypt will become known as the “cradle of self-organization”. Just like the pyramids of Giza are great symbols so is the Egyptian cri de coeur now resonating everywhere in the world. Entrepreneurship and innovation are only possible when basic freedoms are in place. Never take freedom for granted. http://www.business-strategy-innovation.com/wordpress/2011/02/egypt-cradle-of-self-organization/ Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
AAElsayed Abdulrahman El-Sayed Al-Azhar spokesman resigns and joins Tahrir protestors http://ow.ly/3QcJL #Jan25 #Egypt 1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
1220: The White House says it is in discussions with Egyptian figures on an orderly transfer of power from Mr Mubarak. Press reports say one option is that the president resigns immediately and hands over power to a three-man constitutional council. US officials haven't denied this, but they stress many different options are being considered and that all decisions must be made by the Egyptian people. The head of the US military, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen says he has been speaking with his Egyptian counterparts. Speaking on US TV, he told The Daily Show with John Stewart: "One of my chief goals right now it to make sure we keep the lines of communications open, I have talked to my counterpart a couple of times. And also that we've got our military ready, should any kind of response or support be required."
Today seems the main news will be about negotiations.
Here are the positions of relevant players:
Egyptian government: Mubarak remains in power until next elections. Willing to have a dialogue but Mubarak resigning is out of the question.
Pr-Democracy Demonstrators: Mubarak, Omar Sulayman and the Regime step down. They don't want a military government, even on a transitional basis. Their chants today were: madaneya madaneya mish azeena askaraya (Civilian, Civilian we don't want Military [gov])
Opposition: Willing to gave a dialogue with the regime on the condition Mubarak steps down first, after which they'll negotiate with Omar Sulayman.
US government: Wants to see Mubarak resign and Omar Sulayman take over. That is plan A. Plan Be is for Mubarak to resign and the Military assumes power until next elections. There are also plans such as the "constitual council" that Monkey just posted. Their dilemma is they don't want to alienate anyone. And they are most certainly listening to the chants of the pro-democracy movement.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Getting annoyed with the AJE correspondent - it's almost like she's trying to crank things up.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
1248: Rami Raoof tweets from Cairo: "The internet connection (3g) is very very slow. Its difficult to access the internet from here around Tahrir Square. #Egypt #Jan25."
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Today seems the main news will be about negotiations.
Here are the positions of relevant players:
Egyptian government: Mubarak remains in power until next elections. Willing to have a dialogue but Mubarak resigning is out of the question.
Pr-Democracy Demonstrators: Mubarak, Omar Sulayman and the Regime step down. They don't want a military government, even on a transitional basis. Their chants today were: madaneya madaneya mish azeena askaraya (Civilian, Civilian we don't want Military [gov])
Opposition: Willing to gave a dialogue with the regime on the condition Mubarak steps down first, after which they'll negotiate with Omar Sulayman.
US government: Wants to see Mubarak resign and Omar Sulayman take over. That is plan A. Plan Be is for Mubarak to resign and the Military assumes power until next elections. There are also plans such as the "constitual council" that Monkey just posted. Their dilemma is they don't want to alienate anyone. And they are most certainly listening to the chants of the pro-democracy movement.
Just how would a civilian government work?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Anyone who prays or intends or manifests or whatever, focus prayers of love and forgiveness on Tahrir which is about the size of Trafalgar Square.
An Egyptian friend has just said there's a demo on in Mohandseen which is passing off peacefully.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Scenes on AJ of a Very peaceful atmosphere. Music blaring retro Egyptian music. People cheering. Some dancing. Square packed, bridges leading to it packed.
The violence we seen past few days was all on Mubarak and his thugs.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Correction: The main entrance is Kasr alnile bridge, other arteries empty. Army providing security but pro-democracy protestors also protecting themselves but doing body searches and checking IDs of ppl coming in.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Did you see earlier, they did find a plant in there, and they showed him and his ID to the camera. Bear in mind they could have lynched him and DID NOT.
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
caught that too Shanta good for them, didnt even look roughed up, just "detained"
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
There seem to be less people in the square now
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
This is weird, they just showed a dust up in Alex that seemed to be over in seconds. I've turned the sound off though because it's frying my brain so not sure what that's about. Aha another one with police ID mixing it in the crowed.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
1319: BBC Arabic correspondent Amr Gameel says there is a pro-Mubarak demonstration in Mustafa Mahmoud Square in Cairo's al Muhandiseen neighbourhood. No clashes have been reported.
Mubarak's Hired Thugs Rural Poor Paid to Attack Opposition Supporters By Volkhard Windfuhr and Daniel Steinvorth in Cairo
Photo Gallery: 15 Photos
In exchange for the equivalent of a few euros, poor seasonal workers have taken part in street fighting in Cairo on the side of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. The thugs, who fight with iron bars, knives and clubs, have been recruited by privileged members of the regime, including party officials, security forces and rich business people with lucrative state contracts. [...]
The Poor Are Easy Prey In every province, there are party offices. There, people, especially seasonal workers, are collected and offered a tiny sum of money to take part in the bloody battle to keep Mubarak in power. There is not much work on the land at this time of year. Terribly poor and illiterate, they set off to do their employers' bidding for a paltry sum equivalent to around €10-€15 ($14-$20). They are cheap, they are desperate and they don't ask questions. Thousands have taken part, though it is difficult to estimate the exact figure. According to eyewitnesses, around 4,000 people took part in the counter-demonstrations in Cairo and Alexandria on Wednesday.
Mubarak loyalists have resorted to perfidious measures to sabotage the protests by the opponents of the regime and to put on a show for international observers. Thousands of prisons, including detention centers in the desert, were opened in recent days. At total of 14,000 inmates, including murderers and other serious criminals, were suddenly set free. They were released on the understanding that they would cause as much chaos as possible -- effectively a license to plunder, murder and commit arson. [...]
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: There seem to be less people in the square now
What are you watching - it looks packed solid from here (watching AJE).
See now look how AJE have just cranked it up - 'rocks being thrown between' there's probably 5 people lobbing rocks at each other and that will make everyone think 'oh we better start storing up rocks'.
Reminds me of World Science Fiction Convention Glasgow 95 - 5000 people there have serious discussions about science, politics, sociology, literature. 5 people in Spock ears. Guess who was shown on tv the whole time?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: There seem to be less people in the square now
What are you watching - it looks packed solid from here (watching AJE).
See now look how AJE have just cranked it up - 'rocks being thrown between' there's probably 5 people lobbing rocks at each other and that will make everyone think 'oh we better start storing up rocks'.
Reminds me of World Science Fiction Convention Glasgow 95 - 5000 people there have serious discussions about science, politics, sociology, literature. 5 people in Spock ears. Guess who was shown on tv the whole time?
Umm... BBC... They just showed a live stream - I mean it's still extremely busy, but when the recorded one came on from earlier there was barely a hair's breadth between them.
Has anyone heard this interview with Ibrahim Kamel? Apparently it's all our fault.
# 1342: The US says it's in discussion with Egyptian figures about an orderly transfer of power from Mr Mubarak. News reports say one option is that he would resign immediately and hand over power to a three-man constitutional council.
Resign immediately?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I take it back - it looks even more crowded now. I don't think the shots they were showing earlier could have been current.
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
Who's that guy who's singing?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I have no sound Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
It was that guy in the scarf....
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Ok doing the school run now so I have no AJ (thank god for iphone). What's the latest news. Is all still peaceful. Any word from Mubarak yet
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
The last work that I heard from Mubarak is that he wants to step down but he is afraid that if he does Egypt will be in chaos...
VP says for the parents to tell their children to go home.. Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Why what does he think is going to happen if they don't!!!!
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
What if you are the parents of an 80 year old, does that mean you still have to ask them to come home Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
All this about the majority of Egyptians disagreeing with those in Tahrir square... It's very easy. Step down, then see if they want to re-elect him once state-controlled media has ceased.
Simples.
I do find it heartening to note that they're freezing assets and grounding ex ministers. I'm not sure quite how you make $2 billion a year even as a president. If they froze that one imagine what it could do for the country, though I'm sure it left Egypt a long while ago.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
[Update 3:02 p.m. in Cairo, 8:02 a.m. ET] The spokesman for Al-Azhar University, the prestigious center for Sunni Muslim education in Cairo, told CNN Friday he has resigned from his position and joined the anti-government protesters in Tahrir Square.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
lol
@ miffmiss.... Maybe he should look out his window.
@ YAH... Seems to me like their parents are on the square with them.... Should parents stay and children go home?
Did you see the clip that shows what the state tv is showing? Calm with few people on the street, showing the truth and not the lies that the foreign tv is showing. Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Departure Day in Egypt? The only one who doesn't want Mubarak to go is the president himself By Wil Longbottom
It is time to wake up from deep sleep and understand that you are no longer impressive! Good mesage to Gaddafi, Museveni, Ali Ben (Gabon), Al-Bashir, Chavez, Castro and many Arabs Kings! There is no way one can rule over four decades and if he has to go then a son or brother takes over! - Sandra, Zanzibar, 04/2/2011 12:24
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Breaking news : Using my best Arabic....... I have finally managed to get him to step down.
That bloody window cleaner is a nuisance
EEEEE ya gotta keep smiling. Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
My mum says Tony Bliar wasn't on tv in the UK yesterday so why was he wind bagging dangerously on AJE this morning?
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
Will they freeze Mubarak's assets?
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
Fairly sure all the loot will be squirrelled away somewhere supersafe.
Army could be an interesting turn...
I can't see it on the page though.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
where are you getting that Fayrowla? Al Jazeera isn't reporting that in english.
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
Facebook link. Can't verify.....
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
There's nothing on the facebook link. Please don't post if you're not even clicking on your own links.
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
Don't tell me not to post!
Go down the "Al Jazeera and others" bit, there's quite a lot from people who are there. If you're patient and look down the page, you'll see that someone posted this. I'm obviously not going to put his name - data protection and all that.....
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Follow @BBCBreaking on Twitter
1534: Al-Jazeera's Sherine Tadros tweets: "ROARS of happiness from protestors in Tahrir as rumour circulates Mubarak stepped down but it was NOT true, people disappointed now#egypt #jan25."
1533: Dominic Waghorn from Sky News tweets: "Sustained gunfire in Cairo north of Tahrir square. Possibly an exchange of gunfire not just warning shots."
quote:Originally posted by Fayrowla: Don't tell me not to post!
Go down the "Al Jazeera and others" bit, there's quite a lot from people who are there. If you're patient and look down the page, you'll see that someone posted this. I'm obviously not going to put his name - data protection and all that.....
I mean don't post a LINK you haven't verified. I'm watching al jazeera live and I also checked several other websites. It's not being reported anywhere - it would pretty much be breaking news if it WAS true.
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
That's why I put the link! Never mind, I'm sure it's only a rumour... but it was just after the army were speaking to the protestors, so might be significant...when the army "top brass" were there...
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
That egyptian protestor who has been waving the egyptian flag atop a traffic pole at Tahrir Square, almost fell. Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I think a rumour went round about that not sure.
The rumour mill is terrible at the moment. I've heard about an incident in Maadi involving expats from 3 different sources. Another person called me and I said is it this one in Maadi? She doesn't know and is going back to find out.
Basically, foreigners, keep your heads down and don't get in the mix!
Am still feeling totally safe here - went to the shop this afternoon - I know I live in the styxx but someone else called me from Maadi and she's been out having a relatively normal day over there today.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Maybe...
1541: Al-Jazeera's Gregg Carlstrom tweets: "Egyptian state television running a long interview with a pro-democracy protester inside Tahrir Square. A big shift for them."
ANTI - GOV DEMONSTRATORS HAS GAINED CONTROLL OVER STATE-TV, DEFENSMINISTERN JOINED THE REVOLUTIONARY MASSES, THE ARMY IS SUPPORTING THE MASSES (about 85% of it), ACCOUNTS OF THE TRADE MINISTER AND HIS COMPANIONS, HAS BEEN FROZEN BY HIGH PROSECUTER, THE AMERICANS ARE TRYING TO TAKE CREDIT FOR THE REVOLUTION - DO NOT TRU...ST THEIR LIES, AMERICANS SAYS THAT MILITARY ACTIONS AGAINST EGYPT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE - THEY ARE PLANNING SOMETHING - PLEASE PROTEST AGAINST THEM. HILLARY CLINTON HAS AGREED WITH THE PRESIDENT OF CROATIA TO SET UP AN "AIR ZONE and MILITARY BASE" C´MON PEOPLE REVEAL THEIR PLANS AND LIES - IF THERE ARE ANY CLEAN POLITCIANS OUT THERE - SPEAK!!!!
Another post on FB - funnily enough, I live quite near an airbase in the UK and there has been a lot of activity there today....lot of planes seemed to be going somewhere......
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Kind of a rock and a hard place though. What are we all meant to do - just sit here and watch if the army turn on all those people and start attacking? But how do you solve that, with more bombs and bullets from outside forces? Gawd knows. It would be a disaster if outside forces got involved. It would defeat the whole point.
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
I don't think any action will be against the people. And as long as Al Jazeera is there, the people are safe, I really believe that.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Last night there were several hours where there were NO reports coming out of there whatsoever. All that came out were tweets giving vastly different accounts of what was happening.
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
I think they had a lot of problems yesterday. But today, they've got it all together. I don't know if you saw the short video when the government police came to the office and took the cameras away? They've done really well to be able to put out stuff of this quality now....
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Well I might have wrote already, apparently state tv are pushing it as a 'pro stability' demonstration now.
And just for info there are some peaceful pro govt demos going on too - I do in fact know someone (egyptian, nice, normal and not a paid thug) in one.
In a democracy all folk have the right to their views.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
that's why i think this thread is so great...people have done a wonderful job for the past week of consolidating a lot of information in one place and have managed to keep unverified rumours off the board. with so much conflicting twitters and "personal" accounts out there, it's great to be able to trust that whatever is posted here, comes from a credible source.
Posted by sara_uk (Member # 11454) on :
Beautiful scene in Egypt, Come one Egyptians you can do it. Hay peeps
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: that's why i think this thread is so great...people have done a wonderful job for the past week of consolidating a lot of information in one place and have managed to keep unverified rumours off the board. with so much conflicting twitters and "personal" accounts out there, it's great to be able to trust that whatever is posted here, comes from a credible source.
totally agree, that's why I came back here after an almost two year hiatus. I was on the phone with somebody in Alexandria yesterday evening and they said things were ok, although later on I heard there was some "thugery". But the point that came across loud and clear from this conversation is that people were starting to get tired of the situation. The small traders (like those who sell vegetables or fruits) and trademen (sanay'ia in Arabic, e.g. decorators, carpenters, brick layers, etc) are losing their livelihoods. The person I spoke too, who's a construction engineer and deals with those trademen said that they were worried for being without work for a few days. As you might now, many of those don't save and have no pension (mostly self employed or through some sub-contractor). I was really worried about that the other day when I said that the government might be banking on that, i.e. to turn the average Mo against the protestors. I just hope they can hold on a little longer. I think the protestors have done their bit now, and some mature trusted popular figures should start the negotiations with the government in earnest.
Posted by sara_uk (Member # 11454) on :
Ramses nemesis, I am like you, I was away from this place but been discussing the issue with some Egyptians who think, people should stop as it is some other countries agendas to cause conflict in Egypt.
They also think Mubark should not leave in a degrading way, as he served his nation?? I think my reply offended them, because they think how dare I talk about the Egyptians and I am not one of them! They think Mubark will leave in 6 months and there is no point for a protest!! I have not slept properly for the last few days, the first thing I ask, any news? Has he left? I feel drained! And also angry at the naive Egyptians who think Israel want Mubarak to leave! And they should just let him carry on, and leave when he feel like it! Forgetting all those died, or killed by horses and camels!! Camels?? What was that about?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
1621: Rosa Navarro, an American who was arrested and detained overnight at the Intelligence HQ, gives the BBC a disturbing account of her detention: "I went out with a friend yesterday to buy sim cards. We stopped by his house and while waiting for a cab we were approached by police officers in uniform. They asked us for our passports, released us and then came back two minutes later and we were arrested. We were interrogated and accused of being spies and in Egypt to bring down the Egyptian government. I was left blindfolded and sitting with around 50 or 60 other Westerners who had been picked up while waiting for a bus, or a taxi or just walking on the street. None of them, like myself, were arrested near the protest."
completely agreed Ramses! My hubby and I were just discussing that... one of the reporters on AJE asked what would have to happen to force MR. Mubarak to his senses (my words of course) I said that if the country is really losing the reported 310Mil USD/day it would be the businessmen. He disagreed and said the businessmen would shoulder the losses as it is the regime that protects them... thoughts?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: 1621: Rosa Navarro, an American who was arrested and detained overnight at the Intelligence HQ, gives the BBC a disturbing account of her detention: "I went out with a friend yesterday to buy sim cards. We stopped by his house and while waiting for a cab we were approached by police officers in uniform. They asked us for our passports, released us and then came back two minutes later and we were arrested. We were interrogated and accused of being spies and in Egypt to bring down the Egyptian government. I was left blindfolded and sitting with around 50 or 60 other Westerners who had been picked up while waiting for a bus, or a taxi or just walking on the street. None of them, like myself, were arrested near the protest."
Any theories if this was that random or was she possibly listed as a potential troublemaker? I googled the name and she's studying International Human Rights Law at AUC.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by sara_uk: Ramses nemesis, I am like you, I was away from this place but been discussing the issue with some Egyptians who think, people should stop as it is some other countries agendas to cause conflict in Egypt.
They also think Mubark should not leave in a degrading way, as he served his nation?? I think my reply offended them, because they think how dare I talk about the Egyptians and I am not one of them! They think Mubark will leave in 6 months and there is no point for a protest!! I have not slept properly for the last few days, the first thing I ask, any news? Has he left? I feel drained! And also angry at the naive Egyptians who think Israel want Mubarak to leave! And they should just let him carry on, and leave when he feel like it! Forgetting all those died, or killed by horses and camels!! Camels?? What was that about?
Sarah, I agree with your opinion and I'm Egyptian, albeit not living in Egypt. I had mentioned in an earlier post on this thread that if the regime is allowed to carry on (with or without Mubarak) it'll be more brutal than it's ever been. Like your good self, I hardly slept for the past few days and feel really tired and drained, so are a lot of my Egyptian friends. I haven't been able to do anything useful, and stopped my social life, I feel ashamed to go out for fun when fellow Egyptians are suffering in Tahrir in the manner we saw the last two days. I'm not sure if my point came clear, I don't want the protestors to leave, but rather that serious negotiations start with the government.
Unfortunately, it's a bit hypocritical of me to ssy they shouldn't leave when I'm not going through what they are. More importantly my livelihood is not in danger as the traders and trademen I've talked about. I feel like I'm unjustifiably claiming a moral ground! Just feel bad about my inaction at the moment. Sorry, just raving and ranting!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: 1621: Rosa Navarro, an American who was arrested and detained overnight at the Intelligence HQ, gives the BBC a disturbing account of her detention: "I went out with a friend yesterday to buy sim cards. We stopped by his house and while waiting for a cab we were approached by police officers in uniform. They asked us for our passports, released us and then came back two minutes later and we were arrested. We were interrogated and accused of being spies and in Egypt to bring down the Egyptian government. I was left blindfolded and sitting with around 50 or 60 other Westerners who had been picked up while waiting for a bus, or a taxi or just walking on the street. None of them, like myself, were arrested near the protest."
Any theories if this was that random or was she possibly listed as a potential troublemaker? I googled the name and she's studying International Human Rights Law at AUC.
Ah right. That does put a different slant on it, but did you see the interview with Ibrahim Kamel? Foreign media are being blamed now for what's going on and we're orchestrating it for our own 'interests'. This came after the US were reported to be trying to sort out some kind of resolution. Hilary Clinton also reported to be proposing setting up a military base, just in case. After the damage done in Iraq and Afghanistan talk about our lot going in is the last thing the average Egyptian wants to hear.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
I didn't see the interview, no. I googled her name because she said they let them go, then changed their mind and arrested them. Obviously being a student in this subject isn't illegal and didn't make their arrest justified... but I wondered if they weren't "rounding up" anyone who fit their vague criteria of "troublemakers"....or they were just picking foreigners randomly off the street. It does seem like someone checked into her background and decided she should be detained.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Just occurred to me. If they were blindfolded, how did they know there were 50 or 60 other westerners?
Probably a silly question.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
This isn't the same interview but it's along the same lines.
quote:Originally posted by sara_uk: Ramses nemesis, I am like you, I was away from this place but been discussing the issue with some Egyptians who think, people should stop as it is some other countries agendas to cause conflict in Egypt.
They also think Mubark should not leave in a degrading way, as he served his nation?? I think my reply offended them, because they think how dare I talk about the Egyptians and I am not one of them! They think Mubark will leave in 6 months and there is no point for a protest!! I have not slept properly for the last few days, the first thing I ask, any news? Has he left? I feel drained! And also angry at the naive Egyptians who think Israel want Mubarak to leave! And they should just let him carry on, and leave when he feel like it! Forgetting all those died, or killed by horses and camels!! Camels?? What was that about?
Sarah, I agree with your opinion and I'm Egyptian, albeit not living in Egypt. I had mentioned in an earlier post on this thread that if the regime is allowed to carry on (with or without Mubarak) it'll be more brutal than it's ever been. Like your good self, I hardly slept for the past few days and feel really tired and drained, so are a lot of my Egyptian friends. I haven't been able to do anything useful, and stopped my social life, I feel ashamed to go out for fun when fellow Egyptians are suffering in Tahrir in the manner we saw the last two days. I'm not sure if my point came clear, I don't want the protestors to leave, but rather that serious negotiations start with the government.
Unfortunately, it's a bit hypocritical of me to ssy they shouldn't leave when I'm not going through what they are. More importantly my livelihood is not in danger as the traders and trademen I've talked about. I feel like I'm unjustifiably claiming a moral ground! Just feel bad about my inaction at the moment. Sorry, just raving and ranting!
I think the whole world pray that Egyptians get what they want. I am passionate about the whole issue, and I can understand why they get offended but some for example complaining that they didn’t get paid this month!!
I mean those brave men, writing history, they want a reformed country, how can that change without any consequences, that what I tried to explain. I pray wallh for the Egyptian people to get what they want and sooner than later, I think the government did all the dirty tricks in the book, why people allow injustice to carry on?? I lived in Arabic nation before, and I only realised how to be treated like human in Britain, so I don’t expect less but I guess those who are used to injustice scared from change!
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Just occurred to me. If they were blindfolded, how did they know there were 50 or 60 other westerners?
Probably a silly question, but.
Yes, a healthy dose of scepticism all round
A friend was told 120 criminals came in a lorry a couple of nights ago and started looting. Friend started regaling tale to me and stopped half way 'Hang on, how would you get 120 criminals in one lorry anyway and why the heck would they come here?' Another friend told me yesterday that in fact 5 prisoners turned up in a sorry state and practically gave themselves up. If you ask me - and this is mere speculation - possibly around 100 prisoners were dumped in this area and forced to walk in different locations round about because funnily enough, another compound the other side of October was ALSO spreading the 120 criminals story. Hm. Oh and Hyper1 (big mall) burnt to the ground yesterday but was apparently open at midnight selling groceries - :finger on lip in pensive mode icon if there was one :
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I think they do need to get on with the talking now, Ayatollah Khomeini's popped up!
Just trying to find that old song from Not The Nine O Clock News "Ayatolloh don't khomeini closer".
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: that's why i think this thread is so great...people have done a wonderful job for the past week of consolidating a lot of information in one place and have managed to keep unverified rumours off the board. with so much conflicting twitters and "personal" accounts out there, it's great to be able to trust that whatever is posted here, comes from a credible source.
totally agree, that's why I came back here after an almost two year hiatus. I was on the phone with somebody in Alexandria yesterday evening and they said things were ok, although later on I heard there was some "thugery". But the point that came across loud and clear from this conversation is that people were starting to get tired of the situation. The small traders (like those who sell vegetables or fruits) and trademen (sanay'ia in Arabic, e.g. decorators, carpenters, brick layers, etc) are losing their livelihoods. The person I spoke too, who's a construction engineer and deals with those trademen said that they were worried for being without work for a few days. As you might now, many of those don't save and have no pension (mostly self employed or through some sub-contractor). I was really worried about that the other day when I said that the government might be banking on that, i.e. to turn the average Mo against the protestors. I just hope they can hold on a little longer. I think the protestors have done their bit now, and some mature trusted popular figures should start the negotiations with the government in earnest.
Same here, i havent been on for 2 years and i came back to find cheeky because facebook wasnt giving me enough info. To be honest i didnt want to because i expected it to be a lot of back stabbing and bitching with the odd cray lady thrown in for fun but everyone has been reasonably normal and sensible.
Proud of all you guys Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
hahaha apparently we all disappeared round about the same time I had *NO* intention of ever coming back... knock on wood ... havent seen the crazy lady yet... *peers into dark corners* shivers.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
What to wear to a riot: A saucepan lid, a hoodie, goggles and a rose for peace, advises pamphlet for Egyptian protesters
Yeah did you see that guy with the saucepan on his head they interviewed on AJE?
hehe - just saw the pic of the guy with the baguettes wrapped round his ears.
See Egyptians you can do this new future. You have imagination, ingenuity, entrepreneurship, organization skills.
Don't be frightened and trust more in each other.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
back after going out in Luxor. Streets where there had been protestors, (TV and Medina St), although not on Cairo scale, were peaceful and fairly normal. Felt no fear even though I was the oNLY foreigner walking Medina on the way back down TV there were others going about as normal. Sod all to report from Luxor Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: back after going out in Luxor. Streets where there had been protestors, (TV and Medina St), although not on Cairo scale, were peaceful and fairly normal. Felt no fear even though I was the oNLY foreigner walking Medina on the way back down TV there were others going about as normal. Sod all to report from Luxor
some pro-gov bugger called Aljazeera Arabic and said there were hardly a thousand people in Ismailya today. Apparantly AJA had said there were seventy thousand. He said there hasn't been that number in the whole of the canal region (Port Said, Ismailya and Suez) and Sinai combined. Anybody around here from any of those cities. OK, south Sinai may be different, but how about the canal.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: What to wear to a riot: A saucepan lid, a hoodie, goggles and a rose for peace, advises pamphlet for Egyptian protesters
A French policeman sprays tear gas directly into the face of peaceful protesters in video footage which has caused outrage across the country.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Was in Tahrir for 3 hours, amazing atmosphere, all upbeat, optimistic, great humour, chanting, drumming. Protesters old, young, rich, poor, well-known public personalities, even one fellah (first one I've seen). If I could put pics and vids on here I would.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Shocking moment French police spray tear gas in face of elderly protester campaigning against scrapping of a steam train:
A French policeman sprays tear gas directly into the face of peaceful protesters in video footage which has caused outrage across the country.
Thread is Cairo Protests vw, you got carried away there didn't you Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
BBC is discussing a transition government with panelists either in studio or calling in.
BBC is stressing females and Copts in the transitional government.
As if women and Copts must be half of the "wise men" and "constitutional re-write counsel" or it isn't democracy.
BBC not allowing panalists to say their piece. CUtting them off before they are able to get to their point. RUDE!!
NPR is such a bummer this last week.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: Was in Tahrir for 3 hours, amazing atmosphere, all upbeat, optimistic, great humour, chanting, drumming. Protesters old, young, rich, poor, well-known public personalities, even one fellah (first one I've seen). If I could put pics and vids on here I would.
Put them up somewhere and give us a link!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Where is this Metinoot? I'm watching the 'live' thread now and it's reports on Alexandria
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Yes, Citizen, please put them up - it looked fanastic from here - were you there for the evening prayer - it was magical on TV.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: Was in Tahrir for 3 hours, amazing atmosphere, all upbeat, optimistic, great humour, chanting, drumming. Protesters old, young, rich, poor, well-known public personalities, even one fellah (first one I've seen). If I could put pics and vids on here I would.
Put them up somewhere and give us a link!
Any suggestions? I've only just worked out how to upload to FB, you can probably see them on there, I'm on Dalia's friend list.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
We are going Heaven knows where we are going We will know we're there We will get there Heaven knows how we will get there We know we will It will be hard we know And the road will be muddy and rough But we'll get there Heaven knows how we will get there We know we will We are going Heaven knows where we are going We will know we're there
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
photobucket is really easy to use Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Just occurred to me. If they were blindfolded, how did they know there were 50 or 60 other westerners?
Probably a silly question.
She didn't note the foreigners were gagged.
Unless you are gagged you can still speak, thus get answers.
If I was blinded folded and handcuffed, i'd be asking the others what is going on.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Where is this Metinoot? I'm watching the 'live' thread now and it's reports on Alexandria
My home internet is too slow for a "live" feed, being winter with strong winds.
Don't have TV, and KNOW 91.1 is our NPR (National Public Radio) which uses BBC for its international reporting. Which leaves to me go to the university library to use high speed internet and webpages that are really heavy on graphics.
Trying not to access more than 3 websites at work because we get a report on our internet activity.
Spent 5 hours last night trying to update my twitter account so I can access these feeds.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I'm seeing a lot of folk on my FB calling for a return to work on Sunday.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I've noticed traffic has increased considerably here this evening from what it has been the last week. Not back to normal but definitely a lot more than it has been. I think everyone is worn down and tired of everything and just wants to get back to "normal".
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I think a lot of people just cant hold out any longer. They desperately need to work.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Yes LovedOne I have had a couple of calls today advising me to keep my head down for a while. People are getting very fed up now. I am safe where I am but won't be going on any planned adventures for a while!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Where is this Metinoot? I'm watching the 'live' thread now and it's reports on Alexandria
My home internet is too slow for a "live" feed, being winter with strong winds.
Don't have TV, and KNOW 91.1 is our NPR (National Public Radio) which uses BBC for its international reporting. Which leaves to me go to the university library to use high speed internet and webpages that are really heavy on graphics.
Trying not to access more than 3 websites at work because we get a report on our internet activity.
Spent 5 hours last night trying to update my twitter account so I can access these feeds.
would live radio online be as slow as tv? I searched online radio in US and a lot came up but would possibly be as slow. Bummer at having no TV though.
I think this thread is managing to supply pretty much all there is to keep up while you're at home rather than spending all night at the library, and twitter for on the spot. As for watching any of it a lot I see now I cant tell if it's now or reruns! I don't think I can watch anymore!
I think some people just cant hold out anymore. They desperately need to go back to work.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
There are still a lot of people there. Waving flags and music in the background.
I'm on AJE now. BBC is all reruns now.
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
People need to remember thst if they *do* quit now... things will be worse than ever.... he and they WILL get revenge... and there will be no media to cover it
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
Why listen to radio online? There's radio frequencies that get through, but TV signals are blocked downtown and can only get TV by paying for cable.
My ex did alot of overtime this week, and doesn't feel well otherwise I'd be over at his place watching this.
My girlfriend had an internet feed to her enormous new TV plasma screen, but due to winter again cannot get that thoroughput.
AJE doesn't have a much content, unfortunately much of the Egyptian online newspapers are skimpy on coverage. But then again AJA is being targeted by the Security Services, and journalists in general.
Missing information due to journalist suppression is also not an effective measure.
Did anyone get any info on Obama giving another speech in regards to Egypt?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by hmozachsown: People need to remember thst if they *do* quit now... things will be worse than ever.... he and they WILL get revenge... and there will be no media to cover it
Precisely my fear. And why my ex doesn't want to discuss it anymore.
He's freaked.
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
...I'm freaked lol, if Mubarak wants to blame it on "foreign elements" then he'll need some examples.... I'm in deep doo....
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Just seen curfew time changed to 7pm to 6am - basically allows people to return to work.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Al Jazeera has been one of the biggest reporters, so it doesn't really stand up that this is all just some western conspiracy.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
Hawass is on BBC, ranting about Egypt needs Mubarak.
Hawass is only concerned about antiquities, not about the people.
I hope with a interim government Hawass will have to step down too. He's such a fraud, only covering his own a$$.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I like that guy. Maybe I've got him all wrong, but I do.
Bear in mind what happened under the Taliban to the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan. I don't think you can blame him for getting twitchy. It is Egypt's heritage after all.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Thanks for the curfew info SQ...
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I like that guy. Maybe I've got him all wrong, but I do.
Bear in mind what happened under the Taliban to the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan. I don't think you can blame him for getting twitchy. It is Egypt's heritage after all.
Turn off the BBC now.
I care less about inanimate objects and care about the Egyptians living today.
Egyptian living today deserve more rights than a bunch of stuff.
Obama's speech now, in which he calls for "Broad representation by the opposition in transition".
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Foreigners doesn't just include westerners, Monkey.
There are also other foreigners implicated as being involved, esp Palestinian, Lebanese and Iranian.
And re AJ - many of it's reporters are in fact Westerners!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
@ Shanta: The most recent interview with Kamel (that I can't find for love nor money now) basically blamed all the current problems on foreign media influences and he said there was a bigger scheme going on which will come to light later on. I detected an anti-western thing going on but maybe it was just anti foreign. It was blatantly anti American anyway.
@ Metinoot: That bunch of stuff is pretty important to Egypt's economic future, hence the protesters forming a human sheild around the Museum to protect it from looting on day one. Not to mention its sentimental value - it's their history, for crying out loud. Sure you're right, people are more important. But what is it, 20% work in the tourist industry? There are Red Sea resorts, sure, but stick a block of dynamite under the pyramids and Valley of the Kings and I've no doubt more than a little damage would be done to them economically, hence further suffering, unless they expanded in other areas.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: @ Shanta: The most recent interview with Kamel (that I can't find for love nor money now) basically blamed all the current problems on foreign media influences and he said there was a bigger scheme going on which will come to light later on. I detected an anti-western thing going on but maybe it was just anti foreign. It was blatantly anti American anyway.
@ Metinoot: That bunch of stuff is pretty important to Egypt's economic future, hence the protesters forming a human sheild around the Museum to protect it from looting on day one. Not to mention its sentimental value - it's their history, for crying out loud. Sure you're right, people are more important. But what is it, 20% work in the tourist industry? There are Red Sea resorts, sure, but stick a block of dynamite under the pyramids and Valley of the Kings and I've no doubt more than a little damage would be done to them economically, hence further suffering, unless they expanded in other areas.
And between business support services, manufacturing, legal services, and IT services; well over 20% of the US workforce has been outsourced.
We will recover, so will Egypt. Egyptians have changed massively over the last decade in regards due to privatization or "liberalization of the economy" yet khawagaas don't seem very concerned with the "liberalization" policies and cry fowl over inanimate objects.
Besides Mubarak regimes is claiming the demonstrators have been organized by foreigners. If he and his regime is so concerned about foreigners why have such a chunk of the economy keeping foreigners going in and out of the nation?
Can't have it both ways.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I'm not arguing for keeping Mubarak. Like I said, up to the Egyptian people. Merely expressing an opinion why a man whose spent his life preserving Egypt's antiquities might be feeling nervous.
I'm not going on the attack with anyone, so leave me be. I will say I have it on good authority that the word "khawagaas" is only used by those of very low class.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I got called it by a microbus driver once - in the context of 'where is the khawaga going'. He face was a picture when I answered in arabic hehehe.
I only knew what it meant because of Sono! Never seen it written anywhere else!
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
fyi... some of the "foreign organizers" he's pointing two are some lovely ladies from Code Pink.org that were actually headed to Gaza, but got turned back around and decided to come and help instead... I'm 99.99999% sure that by no stretch of the imagination could they be involved...
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I'm not arguing for keeping Mubarak. Like I said, up to the Egyptian people. Merely expressing an opinion why a man whose spent his life preserving Egypt's antiquities might be feeling nervous.
I'm not going on the attack with anyone, so leave me be. I will say I have it on good authority that the word "khawagaas" is only used by those of very low class.
As if I only deal with "low class" Egyptians?
Hawass might also have several millions in an off shore bank like the others in the NDP party.
The Taliban doesn't have a political party in Egypt. Islamists, or the MB do not have ties with the Taliban.
So implying that democracy is not in the best interests of Egyptians because democracy would mean the destruction of antiquities and that the Taliban would influence Egyptians to destroy antiquities is really off the mark.
Besides the looters and rioters who attacked the Egyptian Museum mummies were actual plain clothes police. Not pro-democracy demonstrators.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I got called it by a microbus driver once - in the context of 'where is the khawaga going'. He face was a picture when I answered in arabic hehehe.
I only knew what it meant because of Sono! Never seen it written anywhere else!
Several AUC publications have used the term and many novels such as Naguib Mafhouz.
In Alex plenty of Police officers used the term, and Montzah Palace Beach it was in the air, in spades.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Monkey You are right, khawagaa is a low class word...... used pretty much only in the villages, Khawagaya if you use it for a female. The more classy word is ajnabi/ajnabaya
Sorry sono..... kind of reflects on your ex doesn't it?
Edited for spelling lol
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shareen: Monkey You are right, khawagaa is a low class word...... used pretty much only in the villages, Khawaya if you use it for a female. The more classy word is ajnabi/ajnabaya
Sorry sono..... kind of reflects on your ex doesn't it?
My ex didn't work in tourism, your love interests actually have worked tourism.
Much like everyone else on this board. Making my relationship an ES minority, sigh.
Anyhow Montzah Palace Beach the several times I have gone is half filled with Gulf Arabs and Egyptians with westnern citizenship. Its the Egyptian expats who refer to Arabs as Khawagaas, therefore not exactly a "low class context".
Whenever I see a woman with diamond studded full face veil its more than likely an Gulf Arab.
I don't see as many tourist sites unlike most ESers, and there is usually a massive crowd of Gulf Arabs where I frequent.
WHich is why I hear the word more often, stated by Egyptian Expats.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Has anyone seen that darned interview? Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shareen:
Edited for spelling lol
Glad you did that, confused me. Posted by Shareen (Member # 989) on :
Then Sono, probably it is being used in that context as a slur, not as a class issue.
duh! And stupid me.... I didn't realise you "frequented" anywhere in Egypt
Over to you Ayisha
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
....and I officially want to retire from the site again... my knocking on wood didnt work...
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Has anyone seen that darned interview?
Where were you when you last saw it? Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shareen: Then Sono, probably it is being used in that context as a slur, not as a class issue.
Now Shareen realizes westerners can be absorbed in Egypt without tourism.
Not every westerner has "tourist" only experience.
It certainly encourages the "tourist tout" in your life to filter the information of what is going on around you. If you don't recieve the experience you desire he'll lose out on the yeilds from your bank account/wallet.
I don't get to experience "filtering" and my in-laws have money of their own; often they pay my airfare and all expenses. Therefore there is no reason to lie to me.
@Monkey who was supposed to be interviewed? I just heard the Obama/Harper speech in which they discussed transborder trade and of course transition of power in Egypt.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Has anyone seen that darned interview?
Where were you when you last saw it?
Oh now you had to ask On the BB blinking C at lunchtime. It was right after Obama rang Mubarak again and Kamel was really narked at the Americans.
It was on one of their loops that just repeats stories over and over, but I haven't been able to find it on it's own.
Posted by Shareen (Member # 989) on :
I saw it earlier Monkey... it was all pretty much bullshit. BBC I think it was.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shareen: Then Sono, probably it is being used in that context as a slur, not as a class issue.
duh! And stupid me.... I didn't realise you "frequented" anywhere in Egypt
Over to you Ayisha
not bothering with her on here mate, waste of time and will feck the thread which she's been trying for. Obviously she is right, wtf would we know about Egypt and class anyway.
lead a horse to water and all that Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
It just made me wonder what had gone off. There was Mubarak the day before saying what a nice man Obama was, but this guy was spitting feathers.
Posted by Shareen (Member # 989) on :
...Not sure now. I thought he was madder than that. He said something about the foreign media being called to account for their actions later. Mentioned having 84,000,000 Egyptians against you... I think I found a bit of it. Oh I dunno!
This is the third one I've heard with different interviewers asking virtually the same questions, but I think the one I heard a lunchtime was a female reporter. Not with curly hair though. Or a straight bob!!
Ah, let it go Monkey. Let it go Posted by Shareen (Member # 989) on :
General Secretary of Mubarak's government: Mubarak will not step down 7:07 p.m. EET / 12:07 p.m. EST Ibrahim Kamel, the general secretary of Hosni Mubarak's National Democratic Party, spoke to the BBC Friday morning. He said that the Western media is conducting an "ugly campaign against Egypt" and "when the dust settles I do hope that you will all be apologetic to the Egyptians." He said most Egyptians are developing the impression that the protests are a conspiracy against Egypt, perpetrated by the Western media and that Mubarak would not step down.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Laughing my socks off at this guy Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I wonder how many people genuinely do support him? The pro Mubarak people there today seemed an entirely different kettle of fish to before.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: suggestions? I've only just worked out how to uploPad to FB, you can probably see them on there, I'm on Dalia's friend list. [/QB]
Make a new flickr account as "citizen" - post link to your photostream. You can put tags identifying the protests. I bet lot of news organizations are trawling through looking for them. You can chose your copyrights etc depending if you want people to reuse them with or without your specific knowledge, etc. PM me if you want help.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
What concerned me about him doing this is that the Egyptian public are, surely, always going to back their own, however bad they may be (or not) against foreign interference.
Obama made another statement about an hour ago that the American's aren't going to interfere and that the Egyptians are talking now to work towards transfer of power. He said.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I wonder how many people genuinely do support him? The pro Mubarak people there today seemed an entirely different kettle of fish to before.
Actually here it seems to be there are pro Mu's that are pretty much doing 'ok' as they were so don't want change and pro Mu's that were not doing ok but fear change as this is all they've known, lack of education plays a big part among the latter and the sudden lack of business plays a big part among the former.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Some of them only look like kids. Awful.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Ok just caught up from what I missed and I spoke too soon about the crazys. Sme people never change
So what's happening in the square at the moment. I can't get al ja cos I'm on the iPad. How's everyone holding up in there. I take it Mubarak is being stubborn. Stupid old fool he is. He could have bowed out with grace months ago and saved himself from all this
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I also get a sense that some do not trust their own. I mean how many times have us foreigners had one Egyptian warn us about other Egyptians?
How many times do they say about each other and themselves that they can't organize?
How many times do they say about each other and themselves that they are cheating?
They can organize, they have proved that - I'm not just talking about the demos, but about the way they organized the neighbourhood watches.
They don't all cheat by a long shot, I heard for example yesterday one woman (foreigner) who a taxi driver refused to take money from because of the lack of money around.
They have been kindness itself.
I've often said on here about the wonderful myriad small acts of kindness and consideration I see going on around me when I travel around on the buses.
Egyptians need to learn to trust each other.
Now with so many high-ranking foreign managers having left the country, there is a chance for some of them to move up the ranks and prove themselves, and for others to move into the places they have vacated.
For sure, the road will be rocky.
For sure, they will make mistakes as they learn.
But it will come.
No matter what side you are on, the tender sights seen at that demo, the events of Christmas Eve - Egyptians are one. They can do this.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Lots of people in Tahrir square. Very vocal, chanting, cheering, whistling. No sign of any fighting.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Lovely post Shanta, 100% agree
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Thanks monkey
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by hmozachsown: ....and I officially want to retire from the site again... my knocking on wood didnt work...
Don't retire! It has been nice to see some of the 'old' names back here Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Twitter:
hocinedim: RT @scatatkins: reports of Tony Blair in plain clothes in Tahrir Square, throwing stones at pro democracy demonstrators, screaming "Mubarak forever!"
I think they may be joking, but hey, who knows.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
The Greek PM is apparently going to visit Mubarak shortly to deliver a message from the EU.
Some folks from Al Jazeera Arabic have been arrested.
Square quieter now - people bedding down for the night.
Reporter says he got the impression from demonstrators today that they were steadfast and would be staying put.
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss: Ok doing the school run now so I have no AJ (thank god for iphone). What's the latest news. Is all still peaceful. Any word from Mubarak yet
iPhone has an Al Jazeera English application that streams live better than the pc one. And its free,for sure.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Is 'this' still around? Im sure his last post was a couple of days ago saying he was going to the Square....
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
I have no time to shift through all these pages here but haven't there been any sensible accounts on what is going on? We have to understand this here is not "Egyptians" or "the nation" against president, it is a small bunch of stubborn protesters in the middle of Cairo city. "Small" here meaning small in proportion to "the nation", however big the numbers in reality may be.
They do not represent the nation - it is all quiet outside the Tahrir and Cairo, and would it be if everyone indeed was dissatisfied??? but just themselves mostly, and a few more. Now, how "democratic" is that? It is quite similarly an autocracy, an anarchy even, of a small minority over the majority whose life they disturb far more deeply now than Mubarak ever did (M. being a made-up culprit anyway because no way is a president responsible of all that he is accused of. But he is the "logo", the "face" of the government, so to say.)
I do not think there are many pro-M people, as the country certainly needs change. But sensible slow and peaceful change, not a 24 hours change because some irresponsible adolescents are demanding it in a tone of a 2-year-old. Indeed not many needed the freedoms they miss, anyway. People just concerned with everyday on all normal levels outside the few who think they know better or would like a small presidency for themselves for a while too. Egos are dissatisfied, yes, and intellect of many people is offended by present rules, but is that a satisfactory reason for sending your country into a chaos and canceling out all good work done by other than you?
Here around no one supports the Tahrir protests though further in the city some white collars had a solidarity protest, I think. People want normal life and security, first! Then freedoms.
And, just to point out, M is not exception from the whole society. It is not M holding jobs away from young people, it is their own countrymen who until these days still prefer a relative or friend over a simply best qualifying candidate. And everyone here loves a small tip, whenever possible. Go protest against social mores - will be more adequate.
I am also totally amazed how silly and superficial the main news channels are appearing. CNN is like for nursery, esp the romantic Twitter messages they are broadcasting. BBC is not much better though they have some more sensible analysts appearing at least from time to time. But is it indeed necessary to make the disturbers feeling they are some kind of romantic pro-democracy heroes, using anarchist measures of course but... a-hem let the ends celebrate the means, or what? I lost the website describing the words of the guy who started the Iranian revolution once which sounded more or less: "I only knew what I did not want, but it appeared I did not know really what I wanted." Well, apparently there were others who knew and took over...
Egypt today may not be the Iran of those years or any Iran at all, but anyway, it is hugely irresponsible, hugely egoistic to push for social change in this way. A lot of those young people are actually educated, don't they know history, and don't they know the theory of successful change - the fundamentals of any successful business or other people organisation?
It is all so irresponsible, and nothing martyrish about setting your country into danger. Or (basically) pushing for your own death.
Please someone try to explain it to those young fireheads. Egyptians around here are not with them. They are not with "the regime" either, they just want normal life and to work for a better Egypt that is already on way, and not for someone come and disturb it all.
I would ban "western" media too and I would ban western politicians because at the moment it sounds as if none of them has read any history or has spent even one day in Egypt, with ordinary Egyptians. One day outside Tahrir square and Cairo.
Sorry for this no doubt immensely unpopular account of the situation, in this venue here, but you know all coins have two sides.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: I have no time to shift through all these pages here but haven't there been any sensible accounts on what is going on? We have to understand this here is not "Egyptians" or "the nation" against president, it is a small bunch of stubborn protesters in the middle of Cairo city. "Small" here meaning small in proportion to "the nation", however big the numbers in reality may be.
They do not represent the nation - it is all quiet outside the Tahrir and Cairo, and would it be if everyone indeed was dissatisfied??? but just themselves mostly, and a few more. Now, how "democratic" is that? It is quite similarly an autocracy, an anarchy even, of a small minority over the majority whose life they disturb far more deeply now than Mubarak ever did (M. being a made-up culprit anyway because no way is a president responsible of all that he is accused of. But he is the "logo", the "face" of the government, so to say.)
I do not think there are many pro-M people, as the country certainly needs change. But sensible slow and peaceful change, not a 24 hours change because some irresponsible adolescents are demanding it in a tone of a 2-year-old. Indeed not many needed the freedoms they miss, anyway. People just concerned with everyday on all normal levels outside the few who think they know better or would like a small presidency for themselves for a while too. Egos are dissatisfied, yes, and intellect of many people is offended by present rules, but is that a satisfactory reason for sending your country into a chaos and canceling out all good work done by other than you?
Here around no one supports the Tahrir protests though further in the city some white collars had a solidarity protest, I think. People want normal life and security, first! Then freedoms.
And, just to point out, M is not exception from the whole society. It is not M holding jobs away from young people, it is their own countrymen who until these days still prefer a relative or friend over a simply best qualifying candidate. And everyone here loves a small tip, whenever possible. Go protest against social mores - will be more adequate.
I am also totally amazed how silly and superficial the main news channels are appearing. CNN is like for nursery, esp the romantic Twitter messages they are broadcasting. BBC is not much better though they have some more sensible analysts appearing at least from time to time. But is it indeed necessary to make the disturbers feeling they are some kind of romantic pro-democracy heroes, using anarchist measures of course but... a-hem let the ends celebrate the means, or what? I lost the website describing the words of the guy who started the Iranian revolution once which sounded more or less: "I only knew what I did not want, but it appeared I did not know really what I wanted." Well, apparently there were others who knew and took over...
Egypt today may not be the Iran of those years or any Iran at all, but anyway, it is hugely irresponsible, hugely egoistic to push for social change in this way. A lot of those young people are actually educated, don't they know history, and don't they know the theory of successful change - the fundamentals of any successful business or other people organisation?
It is all so irresponsible, and nothing martyrish about setting your country into danger. Or (basically) pushing for your own death.
Please someone tell to explain it to those young fireheads. Egyptians around here are not with them. They are not with "the regime" either, they just want normal life and to work for a better Egypt that is already on way, and not for someone come and disturb it all.
I would ban "western" media too and I would ban western politicians because at the moment it sounds as if none of them has read any history or has spent even one day in Egypt, with ordinary Egyptians. One day outside Tahrir square and Cairo.
Sorry for this no doubt immensely unpopular account of the situation, in this venue here, but you know all coins have two sides.
By any chance is this nevermind's husband posting this?
Because after calling my in-laws in Menoufia they don't have much of an idea of whats going on because most satellite tv channels and internet has been blocked.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
And did you realize nevermind that there is protests in other major Egyptian cities such as Luxor, Suez, Ismailia, Alex and I am sure I'm forgetting a few.
Remember the April 6th Protests or was that something you managed to block out?
If this is nevermind, what is your native nationality?
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
Our TV reception is OK and internet is back since 2 days I think. My nationality really does not play a role here I think but I happen to share what I see Egyptians around me feeling, yes hubby, too, and any intelligent people watching from the outside.
Yes, more towns, irresponsibility not contained to Cairo only.
To my eyes a lot of them looked like well fed quite comfortable men perhaps experiencing mid-life crisis or something? Wife dissatisfied, job not moving, salaries not rising, but prices - oh! Many causes to dissatisfaction in life but few evident culprits.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Our TV reception is OK and internet is back since 2 days I think. My nationality really does not play a role here I think but I happen to share what I see Egyptians around me feeling, yes hubby, too, and any intelligent people watching from the outside.
If your native nationality, its government takes care of the people and doesn't kill its citizens for exercising freedom...
Why do you deserve freedom in your home nation but the Egyptian people do not?
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
Oh, they do, too, and do not worry they will get it. You cannot stop the evolution!
But the point here is the regime only limited and compromised a few, and outside one's normal life routines, while the present situation is limiting everyone and jeopardizing the whole country. Note the proportions, dear.
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
What concerns textile towns like Mahalla al Kubra (6th april etc) then I am amazed these people there do not understand that if it were not for government measures, no normal efficient business would carry such numbers of workforce any more (plants carrying anywhere towards 20 and 30 000 employees there as elsewhere in the country)
So they are basically protesting to ask for joblessness that would be inevitable under any "free" regime.
And similarly people in Tahrir are really fighting with the arm that is for now feeding the poorest here, you should know about that if you have at least any local connections here. What other country supplies foodstuffs, el and water at such low prices? Pensions to millions? I am amazed at how the total picture is disregarded.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Hi Nevermind - and very glad that you are ok.
Thank you too for posting the views from where you are. I do know Egyptians (nice, normal people - not paid goons ) who express the feelings you have written up there and that the situation is far from black and white. The word 'freedom' has many interpretations. Many westerners use it in context of freedom of speech, intellectual freedom. To others it means freedom from worrying about where the next meal is coming from.
Moving to a democracy will bring a lot of growing pains, and in a way some of what people will go through will mirror changes in the UK during the reign of Maggie Thatcher, letting go of old 'jobs for life' overmanned industries to a more meritocratic (in theory anyway) society. It certainly wasn't an easy time for many people.
Posted by Fayrowla (Member # 15058) on :
Any ideas on who's blown up the gas pipeline in El Arish?
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: suggestions? I've only just worked out how to uploPad to FB, you can probably see them on there, I'm on Dalia's friend list.
Make a new flickr account as "citizen" - post link to your photostream. You can put tags identifying the protests. I bet lot of news organizations are trawling through looking for them. You can chose your copyrights etc depending if you want people to reuse them with or without your specific knowledge, etc. PM me if you want help. [/QB]
Tried to sign up for photobucket, tells me I'm ineligible. Flickr requires registering opening new Yahoo account, too much info required. Anything easier?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Try tinypic.com Open an account by email and upload. Citizen would be interested to hear your thoughts as an Egyptian of next steps - ongoing safety for the hardcore demonstrators, returning Egypt to work - feeling I am picking up is people getting very fed up and tempers fraying.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: My nationality really does not play a role here I think
You are claiming to speak on behalf of the majority of Egyptians, damning Western media and then you say your nationality doesn't play a role?!
I have no issue with what you are writing, I know people who have similar thoughts and I think it's always good to have a wide range of opinions; but the patronizing and arrogant way in which you express your opinion is really offputting.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Try tinypic.com Open an account by email and upload. Citizen would be interested to hear your thoughts as an Egyptian of next steps - ongoing safety for the hardcore demonstrators, returning Egypt to work - feeling I am picking up is people getting very fed up and tempers fraying.
will try tinypic. honestly, shanta, I'm kind of exhausted, was arguing/debating all yesterday with friends, family, FB, would like to reply at length to nevermind... may do so later.
The crux of it is that the whole thing has flipped on its head, people are forgetting who the perpetrator is and who the victim; who created the chaos, who lied; the fact that people can't even tell the truth from the lies after years of being fed propaganda by the state...
One tweeter called it Stockholm syndrome... that about sums it up... we now feel sorry for our gaolers, after all they fed us didn't they?
I do think the country has to go back to work, and the economy would never have shut down if Mubarak had not pulled the police force, sent the prisoners and thugs out, cut off communications and set a ridiculous curfew. I will get the company I work for back to work tomorrow, there are 30 families at stake there. They all have regular salaries so no problems there, but the day wage labourers need to work too.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: I have no time to shift through all these pages here but haven't there been any sensible accounts on what is going on? We have to understand this here is not "Egyptians" or "the nation" against president, it is a small bunch of stubborn protesters in the middle of Cairo city. "Small" here meaning small in proportion to "the nation", however big the numbers in reality may be.
They do not represent the nation - it is all quiet outside the Tahrir and Cairo, and would it be if everyone indeed was dissatisfied??? but just themselves mostly, and a few more. Now, how "democratic" is that? It is quite similarly an autocracy, an anarchy even, of a small minority over the majority whose life they disturb far more deeply now than Mubarak ever did (M. being a made-up culprit anyway because no way is a president responsible of all that he is accused of. But he is the "logo", the "face" of the government, so to say.)
I do not think there are many pro-M people, as the country certainly needs change. But sensible slow and peaceful change, not a 24 hours change because some irresponsible adolescents are demanding it in a tone of a 2-year-old. Indeed not many needed the freedoms they miss, anyway. People just concerned with everyday on all normal levels outside the few who think they know better or would like a small presidency for themselves for a while too. Egos are dissatisfied, yes, and intellect of many people is offended by present rules, but is that a satisfactory reason for sending your country into a chaos and canceling out all good work done by other than you?
Here around no one supports the Tahrir protests though further in the city some white collars had a solidarity protest, I think. People want normal life and security, first! Then freedoms.
And, just to point out, M is not exception from the whole society. It is not M holding jobs away from young people, it is their own countrymen who until these days still prefer a relative or friend over a simply best qualifying candidate. And everyone here loves a small tip, whenever possible. Go protest against social mores - will be more adequate.
I am also totally amazed how silly and superficial the main news channels are appearing. CNN is like for nursery, esp the romantic Twitter messages they are broadcasting. BBC is not much better though they have some more sensible analysts appearing at least from time to time. But is it indeed necessary to make the disturbers feeling they are some kind of romantic pro-democracy heroes, using anarchist measures of course but... a-hem let the ends celebrate the means, or what? I lost the website describing the words of the guy who started the Iranian revolution once which sounded more or less: "I only knew what I did not want, but it appeared I did not know really what I wanted." Well, apparently there were others who knew and took over...
Egypt today may not be the Iran of those years or any Iran at all, but anyway, it is hugely irresponsible, hugely egoistic to push for social change in this way. A lot of those young people are actually educated, don't they know history, and don't they know the theory of successful change - the fundamentals of any successful business or other people organisation?
It is all so irresponsible, and nothing martyrish about setting your country into danger. Or (basically) pushing for your own death.
Please someone try to explain it to those young fireheads. Egyptians around here are not with them. They are not with "the regime" either, they just want normal life and to work for a better Egypt that is already on way, and not for someone come and disturb it all.
I would ban "western" media too and I would ban western politicians because at the moment it sounds as if none of them has read any history or has spent even one day in Egypt, with ordinary Egyptians. One day outside Tahrir square and Cairo.
Sorry for this no doubt immensely unpopular account of the situation, in this venue here, but you know all coins have two sides.
Nevermind, I applaud you for your views. I thank you for your insight. Please scroll back what I said two, three days ago and more.
People want stability. At least with Mubarak that's what they had. Now everyone's life is in deep jeopardy, the econowmy is fucked and there is no end in sight.
I tried to explain two days ago on this forum that Mubarak is not to blame entirely for the high unemployment rate. Many jobs were created during his presidental time, also through foreign investors he brought in.
The main problem is the overpopulation which he was not able to get under control through family planning initiatives which already started under Gamal Abdel Nasser. In Mubarak's 30 years of being president the Egyptian people grew from 35 to over 80 million and it's estimated that in ten years it will be around 99 million.
No president will be able to conquer this problem. It astonishes me that people complaining and complaining about Mubarak yet they don't take a hard look at themselves.
I completely agree the people on Tahrir Square represent a small fraction of the Egyptians - otherwise there should be many more millions of them out on the street chanting against Mubarak.
And of course Mubarak has supporters (and not all of them are hooligans and animals like the anti-Mubarak protesters and media wants to portray). Many of them lived great under him so why should they protest? They also have to fear what the future will bring, how their businesses gonna be affected by all of this.
And yes there is the a big big crowd of people who is just scared of tomorrow because many of them lived already from one day to the other and now resources are very limited for them.
I still firmly believe by kicking Mubarak immediately out from the office and even getting rid of his complete government appartus will be the end for Egypt.
Also people - Egyptians and foreigners - need to understand that for example corruption will not leave the Egyptians minds when a new government will step in to rule the country. Corruption, bakshish, connections is deeply rooted in their minds. It will take at least two generations to change that.
Other things will simply not change either, because CHANGE TAKES TIME. And people will become more and more discontent the longer the uprising last. As I said earlier people will shift from supporting the #Jan25 movement to let Mubarak finished up his term or Soliman will take over until new government elections will take place.
#Jan25 was a nice idea but in the way it was carried out it deeply backfired on the Egyptians. Could it have been done differently with shedding little or no blood and not bringing the country's economy on a complete standstill? Perhaps.
But people need to understand that freedom and democracy will not come over night. They can't just get rid off the whole government in a second. Let the transition begin - yes I totally agree - and by autumn a new government will be established. Egypt was always a chaotic place and therefore it's even more so crucial to take time to make the right - and not hot-headed - decisions for the country and its citizens.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: My nationality really does not play a role here I think
You are claiming to speak on behalf of the majority of Egyptians, damning Western media and then you say your nationality doesn't play a role?!
I have no issue with what you are writing, I know people who have similar thoughts and I think it's always good to have a wide range of opinions; but the patronizing and arrogant way in which you express your opinion is really offputting.
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: Tiger, your comment is very patronizing.
Hm, this make at least now 2 people with patronizing attitudes on this forum for Dalia.
How about people do have different opinions and not everyone is for 'down with Mubarak' slogans - at least not right now?
You need to develop more sense for tolerance. It's a forum to express own opinions after all and if we can't agree to disagree what for then????
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
@Citizen - thank you for that. A friend who lives on a sprawling residential Egyptian estate (not a luxury compound) just called and said all the men in their area are intending to return to work tomorrow and are meeting to discuss ongoing neighbourhood watch duties in the light of that and also the benzine situation.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Other things will simply not change either, because CHANGE TAKES TIME.
But people need to understand that freedom and democracy will not come over night. They can't just get rid off the whole government in a second.
I wonder if you would have told that to the people holding the Monday demonstrations in 1989. Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
In the news a week ago:
Bedouin Tribes Threaten to Attack Suez Canal if Mubarak Does Not Step Down
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: I wonder if you would have told that to the people holding the Monday demonstrations in 1989.
Stop comparing apples to oranges, Dalia. Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Egypt unrest might cause economic collapse: Boutros Ghali
Indo-Asian News Service Cairo, February 05, 2011First Published: 13:56 IST(5/2/2011)
The current revolt against President Hosni Mubarak in Egypt could cause a collapse of the economy, former United Nations secretary general Boutros Boutros Ghali has said. "A country like Egypt which is facing a population explosion cannot withstand the current situation," said Boutros Ghali told Adnkronos International (AKI) in an interview.
A member of Egypt's minority Coptic Christian community and an academic, Boutros Ghali served as the sixth UN secretary general from 1992-1996 during the breakup of the former Yugoslavia, the Rwandan genocide and other world crises.
"The rift on the streets between those who were happy with the president's last speech (announcing he would not stand for re-election in September) and those who believe he should go now, risk sparking a devastating economic crisis," he said.
"The Egyptian public is unaware of the impact such a crisis will have over the next few months," he stressed.
Boutros Ghali warned that chaos could ensue in the country of 80.4 million people if Mubarak was forced out immediately.
"You can't effect a transition in 24 hours and at the same time avert the risk of uncontrollable chaos," he said.
Boutros Ghali said he would be prepared to act as a mediator between opposing forces in Egypt, provided he had permission from the national human rights commission which he heads.
"I am not the only person in Egypt who could play such a role," he noted.
He said he hoped a political solution would urgently be found to the current upheaval and stem the exodus of tourists and foreign investors from the Egypt.
Egypt lost at least a billion dollars in tourism in the nine days since the popular uprising began and one million tourists had left, the country's Vice President Omar Suleiman said Wednesday in an interview on Egyptian state television.
Boutros Ghali said the human rights commission has asked Mubarak and Suleiman to revoke Egypt's state of emergency, amend articles 76 and 77 of the constitution which deal with limits to presidential terms, and restrict the conditions for candidates to run for the presidency.
Other demands included allowing the judiciary to scrutinise contested results from the last parliamentary elections and "to completely restore access to the internet", he said.
Boutros Ghali is a wise man. I've been saying this for days. Let Mubarak go if the majority of Egyptians don't want him but not immediately.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Feck me... I just watched the stole US Embassy vehicles ploughing through a crowd!!! Animals!
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: Hm, this make at least now 2 people with patronizing attitudes on this forum for Dalia.
Yeah … so?
It would have been nice if you had copied my comment in context. What I wrote was:
Your comment is very patronizing. Firstly, you are suggesting that those who are "well off" under Mubarak don't loathe him. Secondly, you are suggesting that those who want Mubarak to step down base their opinion solely on their friends' opinions and conditions.
You never replied to any of that.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: How about people do have different opinions and not everyone is for 'down with Mubarak' slogans - at least not right now?
You need to develop more sense for tolerance. It's a forum to express own opinions after all and if we can't agree to disagree what for then????
Here you are doing at again – patronizing me.
I wrote that it's always good to have a wide range of opinions. How you interpret this to mean that everyone should post "down with Mubarak" slogans or not express their own opinions is completely beyond me.
In fact, I have not even stated my own opinion on the issue at all, I haven't written anywhere whether I'd like to see Mubarak stay or go.
I am very much for a healthy difference of opinions, and I would love to see an intelligent discussion between pro- and anti-Mubarak people develop. As I stated clearly above, I don't have an issue with what has been said but HOW it's been said.
For example:
quote: some irresponsible adolescents are demanding it in a tone of a 2-year-old.
Egos are dissatisfied, yes, and intellect of many people is offended by present rules
those young fireheads.
not many needed the freedoms they miss, anyway.
some white collars had a solidarity protest, I think.
I would ban "western" media too and I would ban western politicians
quote:I have no time to shift through all these pages here but haven't there been any sensible accounts on what is going on?
Translation: I can't be bothered to read anyone else's opinion, but expect you to take note of mine. What a nice and respectful way of entering a discussion. Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
Dalia, I also do not have an issue, or anyone perhaps has any issue, with WHAT the demonstrants want but (exactly!) HOW they want it.
Those who read and understand and agree, do it, and the rest I do not hope to convince, but perhaps a few lights still appear somewhere? Because a lot of people perhaps are not here in Egypt but somewhere farther away and basing their opinions on the (superficial as I said) news only.
Am, I arrogant - maybe because I believe most people thinking like me are by no really so so tired and aghast at people's own irresponsibility in tearing apart their own country, that I really do not care what way I come over. Sorry!
Yes i am not Egyptian but I live among them, am married to one and we notice and follow the sentiment around us.
The bottom line is, if you are trying to impose your will with help of violence/at all costs then how do you differ from those who also are simply trying to impose their will with help of violence/at all costs? We will simply have you instead of them and why should you be any better, you also do not seem to care about us or anyone but you yourself...
The democratic measures are where everyone can speak out, like elections, a national vote or similar. Even those who do not have strength to go wield bats on the field.
And in real life you make concessions, both sides not just one. Mostly everyone here thinks there is indeed enough change going on already, for a few days' period. Hell, even Cuba has change if you notice, so even with the Gamal scenario we would have had change. Because a new generation already always differs from the old. Their awareness is different and what they want is different. Plus that today's people, also leaders, even rulers, interact with others in the world. They need to be if not popular then at least respected.
So have patience!
Thanks Tiger for the article and yes, will scroll back.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Sorry to have to be the one to tell you Nevermind, but Egypt hasn't had a free or fair election in 30 years. There is no "democratic measure" here for everyone to speak out. As we have all seen, freedom of press and expression does not exist here without dire consequences.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8:
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss: Ok doing the school run now so I have no AJ (thank god for iphone). What's the latest news. Is all still peaceful. Any word from Mubarak yet
iPhone has an Al Jazeera English application that streams live better than the pc one. And its free,for sure.
There really is an app for everything. Thanks sash
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Because a lot of people perhaps are not here in Egypt but somewhere farther away and basing their opinions on the (superficial as I said) news only.
Yes i am not Egyptian but I live among them, am married to one and we notice and follow the sentiment around us.
If you had read the thread, you would have noticed that various people posting are living here as well and are not basing their opinions on the news only.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Can someone explain why it was necessary to have emergency rule for 30...yes 30 years. Was the government so insecure? If you can explain or point me in the direction to get an answer... I keep asking why...but no one has an answer
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Yeah lets all go back to normal now, lets believe babaMu will let it go, put it behind him what happened and forgive the young and foolish in Tahrir. Send the reporters home, go back to even worse repression, beatings, arrests, -- oh they released the Human Rights people they had arrested for having an opinion now and the people armed with WMD cameras -- yes let babauMu stay and sort it out like he's sorted it out for the last 30 years. Wonder how many will vanish off the streets never to be seen again? Of course monitor everything we say and think over the net and hey way not lets put the wall back up in Germany and send all the free in the world back to slavery and get back to normal again!
as the Egyptian guy outside the Egyptian Embassy in London where there were protests FOR this revolution said:
"I'm proud of all Egyptians today, I'm proud of the masses who are cleansing Egypt of the dirt, of the (*cant catch this word*) who have been oppressing us. I am proud of all the Egyptians who are cleansing themselves of all remnents of fear. I am proud of the Egyptian people and of the massses who collectively and singularly have raised their head up high, and no one, NO ONE will bring it down again, no one, no one. "
When asked what he would say to the Egyptian people today he said "In Arabic first" and cried as he was saying: "I call on you, I call upon you out there. I kiss the dust under your feet and say this to the masses of Egypt today."
But yeah for a peaceful life with corruption, arrests, beating by those who are supposed to PROTECT, lets all go back to normal now and believe what babaMu is saying now, when for 30 years he has lied and stolen from the Egyptian people not only financially but psychologically, mentally and physically.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Ayisha clicking the like button. Couldn't have said it better myself
But everyone has a right to an opinion. I just personally disagree with never mind and tigerlilly.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Dalia, I also do not have an issue, or anyone perhaps has any issue, with WHAT the demonstrants want but (exactly!) HOW they want it.
Those who read and understand and agree, do it, and the rest I do not hope to convince, but perhaps a few lights still appear somewhere? Because a lot of people perhaps are not here in Egypt but somewhere farther away and basing their opinions on the (superficial as I said) news only.
Am, I arrogant - maybe because I believe most people thinking like me are by no really so so tired and aghast at people's own irresponsibility in tearing apart their own country, that I really do not care what way I come over. Sorry!
Yes i am not Egyptian but I live among them, am married to one and we notice and follow the sentiment around us.
Many of us are here, also married to Egyptians. Tearing apart their own country? Are you watching state TV? The thugs tearing things apart ARE the govt, NOT the protestors who have tried to keep peace!
quote:The bottom line is, if you are trying to impose your will with help of violence/at all costs then how do you differ from those who also are simply trying to impose their will with help of violence/at all costs? We will simply have you instead of them and why should you be any better, you also do not seem to care about us or anyone but you yourself...
Please spare a little time to sift though this thread. I agree those using violence to impose their will at all costs should not be chosen, which is what these protestors are actually protesting against, a government that imposes violence to impose their will, and we have seen that since last Friday!
quote:The democratic measures are where everyone can speak out, like elections, a national vote or similar. Even those who do not have strength to go wield bats on the field.
Yes, not been one here in 30 years but that is what the protestors are protesting FOR.
quote:And in real life you make concessions, both sides not just one. Mostly everyone here thinks there is indeed enough change going on already, for a few days' period. Hell, even Cuba has change if you notice, so even with the Gamal scenario we would have had change. Because a new generation already always differs from the old. Their awareness is different and what they want is different.
Yes the next handed over to dictator might even want more than $70 billion in his pocket!
This govt has LIED for 30 years, it has been CORRUPT for 30 years, so lets see how corrupt the SON is?
quote:Plus that today's people, also leaders, even rulers, interact with others in the world. They need to be if not popular then at least respected.
So governments all around the world respect babaMu for the freedom of his people or the money he makes for THEM? Government HERE is for the people HERE, not to satisfy some other governments, but I agree he should be respected, babaMu is not any longer as he has shown the entire world how he works.
quote:So have patience!
Patience? 30 years of patience and you want more? you are the one calling for let it all go now, YOU have patience and see what this revolution of Egyptian people brings for THEM, elected BY THEM. [/QUOTE]
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss: Ayisha clicking the like button. Couldn't have said it better myself
But everyone has a right to an opinion. I just personally disagree with never mind and tigerlilly.
So do I MM, that was the point my sarcasm was trying to make. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
WE had been detained by Egyptian authorities, handed over to the country’s dreaded Mukhabarat, the secret police, and interrogated. They left us all night in a cold room, on hard orange plastic stools, under fluorescent lights.
But our discomfort paled in comparison to the dull whacks and the screams of pain by Egyptian people that broke the stillness of the night. In one instance, between the cries of suffering, an officer said in Arabic, “You are talking to journalists? You are talking badly about your country?”
A voice, also in Arabic, answered: “You are committing a sin. You are committing a sin.”
We — Souad Mekhennet, Nicholas Kulish and a driver, who is not a journalist and was not involved in the demonstrations — were detained Thursday afternoon while driving into Cairo. We were stopped at a checkpoint and thus began a 24-hour journey through Egyptian detention, ending with — we were told by the soldiers who delivered us there — the secret police. When asked, they declined to identify themselves.
Captivity was terrible. We felt powerless — uncertain about where and how long we would be held. But the worst part had nothing to do with our treatment. It was seeing — and in particular hearing through the walls of this dreadful facility — the abuse of Egyptians at the hands of their own government.
For one day, we were trapped in the brutal maze where Egyptians are lost for months or even years. Our detainment threw into haunting relief the abuses of security services, the police, the secret police and the intelligence service, and explained why they were at the forefront of complaints made by the protesters.
Many journalists shared this experience, and many were kept in worse conditions — some suffering from injuries as well.
According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, over the period we were held there were 30 detentions of journalists, 26 assaults and 8 instances of equipment being seized. We saw a journalist with his head bandaged and others brought in with jackets thrown over their heads as they were led by armed men.
In the morning, we could hear the strained voice of a man with a French accent calling out in English: “Where am I? What is happening to me? Answer me. Answer me.”
This prompted us into action — pressing to be released with more urgency, and indeed fear, than before. A plainclothes officer who said his name was Marwan gestured to us. “Come to the door,” he said, “and look out.”
We saw more than 20 people, Westerners and Egyptians, blindfolded and handcuffed. The room had been empty when we arrived the evening before.
“We could be treating you a lot worse,” he said in a flat tone, the facts speaking for themselves. Marwan said Egyptians were being held in the thousands. During the night we heard them being beaten, screaming after every blow.
We were on our way back to Cairo after reporting about the demonstrations from Alexandria for The Times. We were traveling with journalists from the German public television station ZDF, a normal practice in such conditions — safety in numbers.
At the outskirts of Cairo, we were stopped at what looked like a civilian checkpoint.
We had been through many checkpoints without problems, but after the driver opened our trunk a tremendous uproar began. They saw a large black bag with an orange ZDF microphone poking out. In the tense environment, television crews had been attacked and accused of creating anti-Egyptian propaganda. We had been in the middle of a near-riot with the same crew the day before.
The crowd shouted and banged on the car, pulling the doors open. The ZDF crew in the other car managed to drive off, while we were stuck. Instead of dragging us out as we expected, two men pushed their way into the backseat. We were relieved that they were taking us from the crowd, until one pulled out his police identification. Rather than helping us escape, he was now detaining us.
Oh god. Thanks for the link ayisha
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
The 2nd half ofnthe reports story that ayisha posted for those who have slow Internet access
The officer gave the driver directions to an impromptu police station in the Sharabiya district of Cairo, on the roof of a lumber warehouse. The officer in charge there, who identified himself as Ehab, said they were the secret police.
They searched the ZDF bags and found much more than just a camera. “We have a woman with a German passport of Arab origin and an American in a car with camera, satellite equipment and $10,000,” he said. “This is very suspicious. I think they need to be checked.”
Anxiety turned to anticipation when we were driven to a military base. The military had been the closest thing Egypt had to a guarantor of stability and we thought once we explained who we were and provided documentation we would be allowed to go to our hotel.
In a strange exchange that only made sense later, Ms. Mekhennet asked a soldier, “Where are you taking us?” The soldier answered: “My heart goes out to you. I’m sorry.”
After driving to several more bases we were told we were being handed over to the Mukhabarat at their headquarters in Nasr City.
It was sundown when they had us bring everything in from the car. The items were inventoried, from socks and a water bottle to a band of 50 $100 bills. Our cellphones, cameras and computers were confiscated.
We were taken to separate rooms with brown leather padded walls and interrogated individually. Mr. Kulish’s interrogator spoke perfect English and joked about the television show “Friends,” mentioning that he had lived in Florida and Texas.
The Mukhabarat has had a working relationship with American intelligence, including the C.I.A.’s so-called rendition program of prison transfers. During our questioning, a man nearby was being beaten — the sickening sound somewhere between a thud and a thwack. Between his screams someone yelled in Arabic, “You’re a traitor working with foreigners.”
Egyptian journalists had a freer hand than many in the region’s police states, but the secret police kept a close eye on both journalists and their sources. As the protests became more violent, a campaign of intimidation against journalists and the Egyptians speaking to them became apparent. We appeared to have stumbled into the middle of it.
Ms. Mekhennet asked her interrogator, “Where are we?” The interrogator answered, “You are nowhere.”
We were blindfolded and led to the blank room where we would spend the night and into the next afternoon on the orange plastic chairs. The screams from the torture made it nearly impossible to think.
We were not physically abused. Ms. Mekhennet explained that she had been sick and a man appeared with a blood-pressure gauge, but she declined the offer. One officer gave each of us Pepsi and a small package of cookies. It was after 10 o’clock at night, and we had not eaten since breakfast, but the agonizing cries instantly stilled our appetites.
We were told we could go in the morning, and starting at 6 a.m. we asked repeatedly to be released.
Marwan first appeared around 11 a.m. He became visibly annoyed by our requests, complaining that thousands of Egyptians civilians were in detention. He did not appreciate our sense of entitlement.
That was when he opened the door and showed us our handcuffed, blindfolded colleagues from international news outlets. He said that he was exhausted, but would find our cellphones and computers.
About an hour later, we were given back our belongings. Our greatest fear, that the innocent driver would be kept for “processing,” did not come to pass.
We left together, with pangs of guilt as we saw our blindfolded, injured colleagues again, and new people led in, past guards with bulletproof vests and assault rifles.
Were we going to a hotel? we asked.
“You don’t get to know that,” a guard answered.
They put us in our car with orders to put our heads down. “Look down, and don’t talk. If you look up you will see something you don’t ever want to see.”
They left us that way for 10 minutes. The only sounds were of guns being loaded and checked and duct-tape ripping.
An interrogator appeared and asked our driver, “What did you do in Tahrir Square?” He said we weren’t there. The interrogator said to the driver, “So you’re a traitor to your country.”
In Arabic, Ms. Mekhennet, a German citizen with Arab roots, kept telling the questioner that we are journalists for The New York Times. “You came here to make this country look bad,” the interrogator said.
We were told we would be driving out in our car, but escorted by a man with an assault rifle. Again, we were told to look down.
Finally, after a while, our escort ordered the driver to stop the car and got out. “You can go now.”
The driver began yelling “Alhamdulillah” or “Praise be to God.” We looked around and realized we were alone, somewhere in the middle of Cairo, but away from the protests, the normal street traffic slowly moving past.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Here is the eyewitness account of one of the people (an Egyptian) who were with sandmonkey when they were ambushed carrying food/medical supplies to Tahrir Square:
`You Will Be Lynched Today,' Says Egyptian Policeman: First-Person Account
Having a policeman say he wanted to kill me wasn’t my most frightening moment yesterday in Cairo. That came when police and civilians smashed our car windows -- with the five of us inside it -- jumped up and down on the roof, spat on us, pulled my hair, beat my friends and dragged us into a police van.
The five of us were lucky: We emerged from our confrontation with President Hosni Mubarak’s police and operatives alive and relatively healthy. Violence over the past 11 days, much of it in Cairo’s Tahrir Square, has killed as many as 300 people in Egypt, according to the United Nations.
But it was a day I never dreamed could occur in my native city. It happened not because I was a reporter, a Sudan-based contract journalist for Bloomberg News returning to Cairo for vacation. The friends giving me a ride downtown were just trying to take food and first-aid supplies to those injured the previous night in clashes with pro-Mubarak protesters.
We got out of the car when we arrived at about 11:30 a.m. in Talaat Harb square near Tahrir, our planned transfer point for the medical supplies. We felt somewhat safe, as one of the demonstrators had told us it was a secure entrance. When I left the night before, it was controlled by anti-Mubarak protesters.
In less than a minute, a mob of about 40 civilian men surrounded our car, banging on the vehicle and grabbing our bags. They looted 1500 Egyptian pounds ($256) worth of medical supplies and 800 pounds worth of food and drinks, uninterested in our explanation of whom it was for.
Smashed Window
I held onto my backpack, with my Egyptian ID card, as a group of 20 men tried to tear it from me. We managed to get back into the car and sped toward downtown. As we were driving away, one of the mob smashed a side window with a metal rod.
Then we saw an army tank. It was the army that permitted the massive march on Feb. 1 by promising not to fire on demonstrators. And it was the army that told people to return home the next day.
We pleaded with the soldiers on the tank to protect us: One plainclothes man had followed us in a car from Talaat Harb square, accompanied by others on foot. The soldiers did nothing and we drove quickly on.
Our next potential saviors appeared: a group of uniformed policemen, dressed in winter black pullovers. We approached them in the car, asking for protection. Then the man who followed us from Talaat Harb arrived and accused our driver, my friend Mahmoud, of running over seven people as we left the square. It wasn’t true.
Traitor Accusations
A policeman took away the car key, and about 50 men in plainclothes and five policemen started pounding on our car. They asked our nationality -- we were all Egyptians -- and accused us of being Palestinians, Americans and Iranians. And, they said, traitors to Egypt.
For about 30 minutes, though it seemed more like an hour, the crowd grew, reaching between 100 and 200. They smashed the back windshield, shattering glass all over the car and in our clothing. Men got onto the roof of the car, jumping and yelling. We tried to hold it up with our hands so it wouldn’t fall on us.
Then uniformed policemen took our ID cards and searched the car, our bags and our pockets. They took both my mobile phones and Mahmoud’s Blackberry, promising to give them back.
Finger Across Neck
A policeman looked me in the eye and said: “You will be lynched today,” running his finger across his neck. Others spat on us. They hit the two men in our group in the face through the broken windows, scratching Mahmoud and punching my other male friend. Someone pulled my hair from the back.
An army officer was standing right next to the car as well. Several of us screamed during the hail of blows and grabbed his hand, asking for protection. He just looked at us and told us not to be afraid.
Two soldiers were also present, one of them standing on the trunk of our car. He fired two gunshots in the air in what seemed to be an attempt to disperse the crowd. When it proved futile, he did nothing.
The attack appeared to be orchestrated between the plainclothes men and the uniformed police. At times the police forces would yell “Cordon,” and the mob would hold hands and form a circle around the car. When they were told to sit on the ground, they again obeyed.
Then a police van arrived and the officers told us to get out of our car and enter the van one by one. At the same time, though, the non-uniformed men were crying, “If you leave your car, we will kill you.” We screamed and asked the army soldiers to open a safe passage; a soldier said he would protect us.
Dragged Into Van
The van pulled up right next to the car. A policeman opened our car door and dragged us one by one into the van as people watched down from their apartment windows, in shock.
Inside the van, three policemen armed with rifles were sitting at the back. The policeman who appeared to be the leader sat by us. “Look down, look down,” he yelled. “We haven’t slept since Friday because of you.”
They searched our bags again and claimed in phone conversations with their superiors that we were carrying “leaflets,” a very dangerous accusation in Egypt. They later acknowledged they had found nothing.
As we drove, I saw about 20 foreigners sitting on the pavement next to one of the roadblocks, surrounded by policemen and army tanks. It wasn’t clear whether they were journalists. Inside, I could see the marks of the attack: Mahmoud’s face was scratched and my other friend’s two teeth appeared to be broken.
Cairo Vacation
The van stopped at the Abdeen police station downtown. A plainclothes policeman sitting in front asked us each our names, jobs, age and addresses. When I said I was a journalist, I was asked only whom I worked for. I told him, adding that I had come to Cairo for a holiday.
Then the police offered us water and tea, in the van. One asked why we were in Tahrir Square. We explained, and he said good citizens like us should stay at home and be safe, away from the troubles.
“You have no idea,” he said. “We arrested Israelis, Americans, Palestinians, Iranians and even Pakistanis in Tahrir. What were they doing in Tahrir? They want to destroy Egypt.”
“We were told you were a group of Palestinians. We were told we would arrive at the car to probably find you dead,” he said, according to my memory of his comments.
Not All Policemen
We asked who the people who attacked us were and he said they were just Egyptians fed up with the demonstrations. “We don’t want you to think that all policemen are bad,” he said. “They were banging on the car just to pretend they are also angry with you, or else these people would have killed the policemen themselves.”
“Now you should go home,” he continued. “Go on Facebook and tell your friends the streets are not safe, and that they shouldn’t come to Tahrir. You were lucky to get out of there alive.”
They returned our bags, empty for the most part. They advised us to get new ID cards and to forget about our phones. And they said Mahmoud’s car, a 2010 Champagne Kia Cerato that cost 120,000 pounds ($20,488), was completely destroyed after we left -- even though as we drove away policemen still surrounded the car.
After a long chat, the police escorted us to the edge of downtown, where a friend’s relative met us with a car and took us back to our homes. It was 4:30 p.m. Our ordeal had lasted five hours.
"I'm proud of all Egyptians today, I'm proud of the masses who are cleansing Egypt of the dirt, of the (*cant catch this word*) who have been oppressing us. I am proud of all the Egyptians who are cleansing themselves of all remnents of fear. I am proud of the Egyptian people and of the massses who collectively and singularly have raised their head up high, and no one, NO ONE will bring it down again, no one, no one. "
When asked what he would say to the Egyptian people today he said "In Arabic first" and cried as he was saying: "I call on you, I call upon you out there. I kiss the dust under your feet and say this to the masses of Egypt today."
Touching words. He made me and my 7 year old daughter cry. She has talked of nothing else for days now and even at 7 with all these mixed report she understands and feels compassion for the whole country
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama:
The word 'freedom' has many interpretations. Many westerners use it in context of freedom of speech, intellectual freedom. To others it means freedom from worrying about where the next meal is coming from.
Your statement contradicts the facts because between 40-50% of all Egyptians live on $2 a day or less. So even in your own personal definition of “freedom.” (on behalf of Egyptians I might add) Most Egyptians under Mubarak did in fact worry about their next meal, WHILE living under a brutal regime. It's not like Mubarak was a kind and just leader, his people lived under $2 a day while their constitutional rights of the people were suspended under his entire rule. Not to mention rampant torture and human rights abuses.
Recap:
40-50% live on $2 a day or less, while their rights under the constitution are suspended. And that can be interpreted as "freedom", according to you.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss: "I'm proud of all Egyptians today, I'm proud of the masses who are cleansing Egypt of the dirt, of the (*cant catch this word*) who have been oppressing us. I am proud of all the Egyptians who are cleansing themselves of all remnents of fear. I am proud of the Egyptian people and of the massses who collectively and singularly have raised their head up high, and no one, NO ONE will bring it down again, no one, no one. "
When asked what he would say to the Egyptian people today he said "In Arabic first" and cried as he was saying: "I call on you, I call upon you out there. I kiss the dust under your feet and say this to the masses of Egypt today."
Touching words. He made me and my 7 year old daughter cry. She has talked of nothing else for days now and even at 7 with all these mixed report she understands and feels compassion for the whole country
Thanks MM. Made me and hubby cry too.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama:
The word 'freedom' has many interpretations. Many westerners use it in context of freedom of speech, intellectual freedom. To others it means freedom from worrying about where the next meal is coming from.
Your statement contradicts the facts because between 40-50% of all Egyptians live on $2 a day or less. So even in your own personal definition of “freedom.” (on behalf of Egyptians I might add) Most Egyptians under Mubarak did in fact worry about their next meal, WHILE living under a brutal regime. It's not like Mubarak was a kind and just leader, his people lived under $2 a day while their constitutional rights of the people were suspended under his entire rule. Not to mention rampant torture and human rights abuses.
Recap:
40-50% live on $2 a day or less, while their rights under the constitution are suspended. And that can be interpreted as "freedom", according to you.
I think you misunderstood the dialogue and context this was posted in Exiiled.
Going out now, will report back what's going off here later. Stay safe guys!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Can someone explain why it was necessary to have emergency rule for 30...yes 30 years. Was the government so insecure? If you can explain or point me in the direction to get an answer... I keep asking why...but no one has an answer
Hosni Mubarak and his regime are brutal paranoid control freaks. He has refused to have a Vice-President for his entire rule. This in addition to the Emergency Law has given him total authoritarian control of Egypt. Think about it with these two facts in mind, and the answer will be apparent.
1- Refuse To Have A Vice-President for 30 years 2- Suspended All Citzen Rights for 30 years.
People who are unfamilar with the Emergency Law here is a brief summary:
Under the law, police powers are extended, constitutional rights suspended and censorship is legalized.[27] The law sharply circumscribes any non-governmental political activity: street demonstrations, non-approved political organizations, and unregistered financial donations are formally banned. Some 17,000 people are detained under the law, and estimates of political prisoners run as high as 30,000.[28] Under that "state of emergency", the government has the right to imprison individuals for any period of time, and for virtually no reason, thus keeping them in prisons without trials for any period. The government continues the claim that opposition groups like the Muslim Brotherhood could come into power in Egypt if the current government did not forgo parliamentary elections, confiscate the group's main financiers' possessions, and detain group figureheads, actions which are virtually impossible without emergency law and judicial-system independence prevention.[29] Pro-democracy advocates in Egypt argue that this goes against the principles of democracy, which include a citizen's right to a fair trial and their right to vote for whichever candidate and/or party they deem fit to run their country.
Hubby has been out in our area this morning, says that everything seems kind of back to normal, people working, etc.
Traffic for sure sounds back to normal. I got used to it being so quiet that it seems abnormally loud.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Can someone explain why it was necessary to have emergency rule for 30...yes 30 years. Was the government so insecure? If you can explain or point me in the direction to get an answer... I keep asking why...but no one has an answer
Hosni Mubarak and his regime are brutal paranoid control freaks. He has refused to have a Vice-President for his entire rule. This in addition to the Emergency Law has given him total authoritarian control of Egypt. Think about it with these two facts in mind, and the answer will be apparent.
1- Refuse To Have A Vice-President for 30 years 2- Suspended All Citzen Rights for 30 years.
People who are unfamilar with the Emergency Law here is a brief summary:
Under the law, police powers are extended, constitutional rights suspended and censorship is legalized.[27] The law sharply circumscribes any non-governmental political activity: street demonstrations, non-approved political organizations, and unregistered financial donations are formally banned. Some 17,000 people are detained under the law, and estimates of political prisoners run as high as 30,000.[28] Under that "state of emergency", the government has the right to imprison individuals for any period of time, and for virtually no reason, thus keeping them in prisons without trials for any period. The government continues the claim that opposition groups like the Muslim Brotherhood could come into power in Egypt if the current government did not forgo parliamentary elections, confiscate the group's main financiers' possessions, and detain group figureheads, actions which are virtually impossible without emergency law and judicial-system independence prevention.[29] Pro-democracy advocates in Egypt argue that this goes against the principles of democracy, which include a citizen's right to a fair trial and their right to vote for whichever candidate and/or party they deem fit to run their country.
Thanks for that
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Never mind and tigerlilly
I understand that you support mubarak and all he has done to protect his people especially during the past week. As he says the country will not be safe for the people without him. I also understand that nevermind hasn't got time to scrawl through all that has been said so i have attached a couple of videos for your perusal. Take your time to watch and accept then come back and let us know your feelings on this.
Now i am sure your initial reaction will be that he himself has not carried out this treatment to his people so i have 2 possible scenarios for you to chew on
1. he ordered this treatment on his beloved people. Stop them at all costs
2 he didn't order them. that would mean he has lost control of his police and military so they acted with there own free will. Then he needs to step aside and let someone else come in and take control before anyone else gets hurt
Let me know your thoughts
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Dalia, I also do not have an issue, or anyone perhaps has any issue, with WHAT the demonstrants want but (exactly!) HOW they want it.
Those who read and understand and agree, do it, and the rest I do not hope to convince, but perhaps a few lights still appear somewhere? Because a lot of people perhaps are not here in Egypt but somewhere farther away and basing their opinions on the (superficial as I said) news only.
Am, I arrogant - maybe because I believe most people thinking like me are by no really so so tired and aghast at people's own irresponsibility in tearing apart their own country, that I really do not care what way I come over. Sorry!
Yes i am not Egyptian but I live among them, am married to one and we notice and follow the sentiment around us.
The bottom line is, if you are trying to impose your will with help of violence/at all costs then how do you differ from those who also are simply trying to impose their will with help of violence/at all costs? We will simply have you instead of them and why should you be any better, you also do not seem to care about us or anyone but you yourself...
The democratic measures are where everyone can speak out, like elections, a national vote or similar. Even those who do not have strength to go wield bats on the field.
And in real life you make concessions, both sides not just one. Mostly everyone here thinks there is indeed enough change going on already, for a few days' period. Hell, even Cuba has change if you notice, so even with the Gamal scenario we would have had change. Because a new generation already always differs from the old. Their awareness is different and what they want is different. Plus that today's people, also leaders, even rulers, interact with others in the world. They need to be if not popular then at least respected.
So have patience!
Thanks Tiger for the article and yes, will scroll back.
Nevermind,
Let me just remind you where you are living, and the law under which you are living, by reposting what is legal and illegal in Egpyt, under President Mubarak. Can you then rephrase your suggestion as to what would be reasonable in terms of what is legal and lawful under Egypt's law? How do you propose any sort of change when citizens have no rights? What democracy?
People who are unfamilar with the Emergency Law here is a brief summary:
Under the law, police powers are extended, constitutional rights suspended and censorship is legalized.[27] The law sharply circumscribes any non-governmental political activity: street demonstrations, non-approved political organizations, and unregistered financial donations are formally banned. Some 17,000 people are detained under the law, and estimates of political prisoners run as high as 30,000.[28] Under that "state of emergency", the government has the right to imprison individuals for any period of time, and for virtually no reason, thus keeping them in prisons without trials for any period. The government continues the claim that opposition groups like the Muslim Brotherhood could come into power in Egypt if the current government did not forgo parliamentary elections, confiscate the group's main financiers' possessions, and detain group figureheads, actions which are virtually impossible without emergency law and judicial-system independence prevention.[29] Pro-democracy advocates in Egypt argue that this goes against the principles of democracy, which include a citizen's right to a fair trial and their right to vote for whichever candidate and/or party they deem fit to run their country.
To be fair, Lily and nevermind do have a point and a right to their opinion....
It truly is an inconvenience, to those who prosper from the oppression of the masses for these people to rise up and appeal for their human rights. My gosh, tourism suffers, the economy suffers, and the streets are a mess. Lily and nevermind simply feel that freedom for all is not as important as the comfort of the few. Opinion duly noted.
...But, to say
"it is a small bunch of stubborn protesters in the middle of Cairo city."
... is a travesty. For every one person out protesting and risking their life, I would be willing to bet that there are at the very least 10 who support them, and probably more.
As we have clearly seen, not all are for the pro-democracy protesters or their cause and we have clearly watch the pro-government come out and stand up for the government (or actually beat the hell out of the peaceful protestors who want democracy).
Yet, with a keen eye you might be able to notice the slight disproportion between the number of people in the two groups..... Just saying.
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
Aisha, you do come over a bit labile, but never mind, of course.
Oh, we are all waiting here, although so far it seems by latest news everyone will be back at work tomorrow and who cares about Tahrir, you can circle around Tahrir, let them continue sitting there or whatever. (Again reflecting the emotions around me here)
I just hope the US keep themselves out, because who needs a new Iraq here, or what? Who would have believed still a few years ago that in the whole world you actually need to fear the US the most acutely, because they are so... (what is a good word here?) Kind of pressing for all wrong things and consequences. And seemingly very unsure, position shifting every day. Egyptians right now seem to know better, what they are doing, and they know their own people. And they gain popularity by minute for promising stability and standing for it, too.
About above copy&paste - did not really read through it but you must understand that as long as no one knows exactly who is behind the protest etc and what other forces may be trying to gain from it, the above people may indeed look very suspicious to anyone with a task to select the good from the bad, on the street. Or does anyone here have ability to read from eyes, who is after what?
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Vodafone shut down their systems then sent out pro mubarak messages. Tell them to stand up for their customers
The word 'freedom' has many interpretations. Many westerners use it in context of freedom of speech, intellectual freedom. To others it means freedom from worrying about where the next meal is coming from.
Your statement contradicts the facts because between 40-50% of all Egyptians live on $2 a day or less. So even in your own personal definition of “freedom.” (on behalf of Egyptians I might add) Most Egyptians under Mubarak did in fact worry about their next meal, WHILE living under a brutal regime. It's not like Mubarak was a kind and just leader, his people lived under $2 a day while their constitutional rights of the people were suspended under his entire rule. Not to mention rampant torture and human rights abuses.
Recap:
40-50% live on $2 a day or less, while their rights under the constitution are suspended. And that can be interpreted as "freedom", according to you.
Excuse me but I feel you should learn to read.
I am completely and utterly bemused as to (a) what you think my definition of freedom is from the statement above and (b) what your statistics have to do with whatever it is you think I have said.
At no point have I stated MY definition of freedom, I have stated the patently obvious that the word freedom has many interpretations - from intellectual freedom to freedom from worrying about the next meal.
I am fully aware of the statistics relating to income, I have posted them on ES myself a number of occasions.
I am also aware that the views of those Egyptians who I know even within one social cluster vary markedly across the scale.
I also know that a lot of the people are desperate to get back to work.
I also know that the return to 'normality' for the majority leaves the minority exposed.
As I have said all along, this is not a black and white situation.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
I am not going along with the bickering on here. Enough people - most of all the Egyptians - are so much already divided right now in their opinions which hinders any proper progress in negotiations between the current government and opposition groups and in the long run hurts all Egyptians.
Instead I want to focus on other issues f.e. WHY MUBARAK CAN'T LEAVE IMMEDIATELY THE OFFICE:
What Mubarak must do before he resigns
By Hossam Bahgat and Soha Abdelaty Saturday, February 5, 2011
CAIRO
As Egyptian citizens and human rights defenders, we have been on the streets here, including in Tahrir Square, since Jan. 25 to demand dignity and freedom for all Egyptians. There is nothing we want more than an immediate end to the Mubarak era, which has been marred by repression, abuse and injustice. We are heartened by the international community's shift from demanding "restraint" and "responsiveness" to echoing our call for Hosni Mubarak to step down and for an immediate transition toward democracy.
But for a real transition to democracy to begin, Mubarak must not resign until he has signed decrees that, under Egypt's constitution, only a president can issue. This is not simply a legal technicality; it is, as Nathan Brown recently blogged for ForeignPolicy.com, the only way out of our nation's political crisis.
Egypt's constitution stipulates that if the president resigns or his office becomes permanently "vacant," he must be replaced by the speaker of parliament or, in the absence of parliament, the chief justice of the Supreme Constitutional Court. In the event of the president's temporary inability to exercise his prerogatives, the vice president is to take over as the interim head of state. In both cases a new president must be elected within 60 days. Significantly, the constitution prohibits the interim president from introducing constitutional amendments, dissolving parliament or dismissing the cabinet.
If today Mubarak were no longer available to fulfill his role as president, the interim president would be one of two candidates. If he chooses to leave the country, say for "medical reasons," the interim president would be Omar Suleiman, the former intelligence chief who was recently made vice president. Egyptians, particularly those of us calling for an end to Mubarak's three-decade rule, see Suleiman as Mubarak II, especially after the lengthy interview he gave to state television Feb. 3 in which he accused the demonstrators in Tahrir Square of implementing foreign agendas. He did not even bother to veil his threats of retaliation against protesters.
On the other hand, if Mubarak is pushed to resign immediately we would have an even worse interim president: Fathi Surur, who has been speaker of the People's Assembly since 1990. Surur has long employed his legal expertise to maintain and add to the arsenal of abusive laws that Mubarak's regime has used against the Egyptian people. Since neither Suleiman nor Surur would be able to amend the constitution during the interim tenure, the next presidential election would be conducted under the notoriously restrictive election rules Mubarak introduced in 2007. That would effectively guarantee that no credible candidate would be able to run against the interim president.
So before Mubarak resigns he must sign a presidential decree delegating all of his authorities to his vice president until their current terms end in September. Mubarak issued similar decrees, transferring his powers to the prime minister, when he was hospitalized in 2004 and 2009. In addition, Mubarak must issue decrees lifting the "state of emergency" that has allowed him to suppress Egyptians' civil liberties since 1981 and ordering the release or trial of those held in administrative detention without charge - estimated to be in the thousands.
Also before Mubarak resigns, an independent commission of respected judges, constitutional law experts, civil society representatives and all political movements should draft language to amend the constitution to ensure that presidential elections are open to all credible candidates; that Egyptians abroad are allowed - for the first time - to vote; that any elected president is allowed to serve only two terms; and that the elections are supervised by judicial and civil monitors. Most of this will be a matter of undoing the damage Mubarak inflicted with his constitutional changes in 2007.
These amendments must be introduced in parliament and put to a public referendum immediately. Suleiman's claim that time is short is unfounded and disingenuous; four years ago, Mubarak and his ruling party amended 34 articles of the constitution in only two months.
Next, a diverse caretaker government must be appointed to serve the people until a president is elected and, importantly, to oversee the interim president. This broad-based cabinet must include well-respected representatives of all the country's political forces. Once a new president is elected, we can move toward drafting a constitution that ensures Egypt's transformation from a dictatorship to a democracy and enshrines full equality and human rights. Free and fair parliamentary elections would follow.
Three additional elements are key for the transition to succeed: First, civilian oversight of the police and security forces will deter abuse, hold abusers accountable, and help ensure the safety of those participating in the democratic uprising. Second, establishing an independent board of trustees for state television and radio would ensure neutrality in programming and representation of all political views. Third, a strong commitment by the army to act as a neutral custodian of the transition, serving the interests of the people and not the delegitimized regime, is critical.
Egyptians have paid a heavy price the past three decades and an even steeper one since this revolution started. Let's end Mubarak's rule the right way so we can start building a better future.
About above copy&paste - did not really read through it but you must understand that as long as no one knows exactly who is behind the protest etc and what other forces may be trying to gain from it, the above people may indeed look very suspicious to anyone with a task to select the good from the bad, on the street. Or does anyone here have ability to read from eyes, who is after what?
Denial is not just a river in Egypt
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
So much for the cease fire on ES, looks like with the imminent crisis of Tahrir past, the crisis is back on the boards here. Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Sorry i am shutting up now. Said my bit
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
quote:Originally posted by miffmiss: Sorry i am shutting up now. Said my bit
lol, not talking about your post in particular, it's just taken a rather nasty turn in general today. Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Yes am avoiding net and tv as much as poss today. Swept the staircase of my block of flats again. Just can't concentrate on books, films or whatever.
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
Poor,poor Mubarak...doesnt this bring tears to your eyes? Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Can someone explain why it was necessary to have emergency rule for 30...yes 30 years. Was the government so insecure? If you can explain or point me in the direction to get an answer... I keep asking why...but no one has an answer
A good advice for correcting one's emotions towards Mubarak would be... well, do you happen to know that song by Depeche Mode - "Try walking in my shoes. You'll stumble in my footsteps..."
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Yes am avoiding net and tv as much as poss today. Swept the staircase of my block of flats again. Just can't concentrate on books, films or whatever.
Hard to settle down isn't it? Waiting and waiting and nothing happening and things not back to normal and need to do something! Hope the blisters on your hands are okay. Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Yeah i noticed that too. i normally skim read through the crap but my worry about cheekys journey home, nightmares and lack of sleep has put me in a snappy mood today and im not even in egypt anymore. Think i will go and have a hot bath. Read a book and shut off from the world until i change my mood. Its not like me to snap.
Stupid thing is i feel guilty doing something so self absorbed. Almost like because i might stop suffering with a pounding head from too much computer trawling that i am abandoning those who are sat in Tahrir suffering for there fight for freedom which we hear take for granted.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Can someone explain why it was necessary to have emergency rule for 30...yes 30 years. Was the government so insecure? If you can explain or point me in the direction to get an answer... I keep asking why...but no one has an answer
A good advice for correcting one's emotions towards Mubarak would be... well, do you happen to know that song by Depeche Mode - "Try walking in my shoes. You'll stumble in my footsteps..."
As we all know,the vast majority of Egyptians live in quite extreme poverty,and they are probably most of those demanding a change now,but i also know some that are by no means poor at all,in fact they are what its called very well off financially even wealthy,yet even them support totally the Egyptian uprising and the inmediate termination of Mubarak regime.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Swept the staircase of my block of flats again. Just can't concentrate on books, films or whatever.
I know the feeling. My house is extremely clean at the moment, plus I've finally gotten around to filling some grouts with white cement, and today I'm going to do a bit of paintwork. Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
RT @londontocairo: Nobody Move - Nobody Get Hurt http://bit.ly/fInL38 Posted by weirdkitty (Member # 15365) on :
quote: I know the feeling. My house is extremely clean at the moment, plus I've finally gotten around to filling some grouts with white cement, and today I'm going to do a bit of paintwork.
In contrast, mine is a wreck! Zain hasn't been out in so long (other than popping to the one local shop), that I'm letting him run riot, pull things out (currently pulling my cards out of my purse), and climb over everything, just to keep him entertained and a bit stimulated!
Sam has gone to the shops to stock up on supplies, and will attempt a cash point, we are down to our last 150le. Worryingly I'm hearing gun fire which isn't normal for daytime.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Everyone could go home, go back to work tomorrow, but this isn't going to bring the country to anywhere near normality. The country is in limbo now until Mubarak leaves. Who is going to want to invest in Egypt until that happens? You might aswell throw your money in the air and just see where it lands. I think perhaps it's not such a bad thing the stock markets have been suspended. On the last day they were trading, Thursday 27th January I believe it was, some companies droped in value by over 19 points. Why are the banks closed? Have the ATMs simply run out of money? Or is it because they are frightened that the second they open, folks will be queuing down the streets to withdraw all their funds in case they go under, thus making them go under. To be fair, it that was all I had, I wouldn't be taking any chances. The same thing happened in Argentina in the 1990s. There are striking similarities between what happened in Argentina and what is happening now in Egypt.
I know there have been demonstrations all over the world because the basic fact is the recession, depression, whatever they're calling it now, is global. People don't like having to give up a standard of living they have grown accustommed to. Personally I've had my hours cut by 35% but it's no biggie because I have other means of supplementing my income. Where you don't, it's a biggie. Where your standard of living was so drastically lower to start off with it isn't a fight for the luxuries. It's a fight for survival. There are people in Egypt who earn far less than $2 dollars a day. I've heard of farmers getting as little as $18 a month. So when a bag of sugar costs $1.60 - you do the maths. And isn't sugar supposed to be a state controlled industry? These prices are comparable to ours and yet Egypt is a sugar producer. Could it be that the sugar companies are raising the prices within Egypt because prices outside of it are high? Which is fine for a private company - they're meant to make a profit. I do wonder how much their average employee's wage has increased. Take a look at Delta Sugar's stat on Reuters. They've been doing remarkably well, but has any of this been passed on to their employees?
This is the problem when you have major business men sitting in government with no transparency.
They need to sit down and think about what they're going to do. But when the people who are to discuss what is going to happen are those who had a vested interest in the regime, nothing is going to change. This is already an economic disaster. If they formed a new government it would spread hope, but there can be none with the country the way it is. And if I were a protestor, be damned I would go back to work. They're suffering. They're families are suffering. They might earn a weeks wage if they go back to work, but how many months or years will they spend in prison when they get tracked down, or worse. There was a, maybe, 18 Egyptian year old girl on TV last night calling for Mubarak to step down. Saying if he doesn't go "I will be arrested, hee hee!". It sent a shiver down my spine.
I woke up with a sick feeling in my stomach today. It's stalemate now. I don't see it going forward without foreign intervention, and I don't see that that is going to happen, and it will be a hollow victory for the people if it does. First they spooked us with the threat of the MB getting in. Second they're saying this has all come about because of foreign media. Now they're playing a waiting game. I don't like the way this is going.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Aisha, you do come over a bit labile
*sigh*
Why the need for ad-hominem attacks? Why is it not possible to discuss different opinions without that sort of personal attack? Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
MM... can you call me please, I have a friend also in crisis and you could save two birds with one stone Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Two things personally irk the heck out of me:
1- Downplaying the extent of the brutality of Mubarak regime. There are countless files by the UN on human rights violations that would have been avoided if the Emergency Law was not in place. What is wrong with giving people a fair trial. When Egyptian citizens are not entitled to a trial, or entitled to see a judge they are at the mercy of Corrupt Policemen who act with impunity. Case in point: Khalid Said. They literally re-arranged his face.
2- Fear mongering. Trying to make people believe that the MB are behind this. There are judges, prominent feminist, lawyers, professors, Nobel prize winners, secular politicians and parties, the list goes on of the extent of the pro-democracy movement. They all crave freedom. Hosni Mubarak has been using the Muslim Brotherhood fear card for 30 years. But not having a VP for 30 years also says a lot more about this brutal authoritarian.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
It seems to me that the people are relativity safe now with all eyes on Egypt and the commitment of the army not to strike against the protesters. If they end the protest and the cameras leave, what will happen to the people then? Will they be safe from the government for having shown this strong decent?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: It seems to me that the people are relativity safe now with all eyes on Egypt and the commitment of the army not to strike against the protesters. If they end the protest and the cameras leave, what will happen to the people then? Will they be safe from the government for having shown this strong decent?
Without a transition to democracy:
Many people will go missing. And the informants such as bowabs, taxi drivers, car cleaners, neighborhood kiosk dudes, etc will sellout their countrymen. And inform the SSI eventually for a measely some of who was doing what and saying what in the neighborhood.
Most people will be left alone, but an example will be made, many will also face retribution such as the “organizers.” They'll use torture tactics on them that in essence will make them wish they never got involved. Then of course will be the police payback, especially of those who “hattoo fee damaqhum”/remember in a bad way. Some of course will die, some will disappear for good. Some will lose their jobs and pensions. It's the NDP, they have State Security (Amn Al-Dowla), Police and what more needs to be said. Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Nothing more. Exactly what I felt.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Getting reports that HM has resigned from NDP. Trying to verify.
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
So now the chaos needs to continue to protect those who started it? I think you need to answer for what you caused, sure. Isn't it how you deal with your own kids? Just hopefully they will find way to differentiate between those with direct evil aims and those who simply were too naive to know better or kind of accidentally going along. Kids grow by making mistakes, it cannot be helped or totally avoided. But they need to learn from it before you forgive. Or what?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
They're reporting he's quitting as head of the NDP, but does that mean quitting as president?
No. But it does mean he is making more pathetic moves, which further annoys pro-democracy demonstrators. All that's left in this revolution is for him to resign as president.
It's maybe to give credibility to Sulayman, which I fear because he is a brutal man.
Seems like Mubrak is very desperate and trying to convey to pro-democracy protestors that he is really leaving.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
It seems to be the NDP itself is in crisis and crumbling, riven by divisions, more likely.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Everytime Hosni Mubarak squirms. I feel happy. This brutal man and his brutal regime has hurt Egyptians so much, it can feel only good to see him sweating.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: So now the chaos needs to continue to protect those who started it? I think you need to answer for what you caused, sure. Isn't it how you deal with your own kids? Just hopefully they will find way to differentiate between those with direct evil aims and those who simply were too naive to know better or kind of accidentally going along. Kids grow by making mistakes, it cannot be helped or totally avoided. But they need to learn from it before you forgive. Or what?
Who started the chaos, nevermind? Who withdrew the nation's police force for 24 hours? who opened up the prisons? who cut Egypt off from the world for 5 days? who put a ridiculous curfew that shut down the economy? who spread lies in the 'state' press and TV to terrorize the people?
All of the above would be serious crimes in any nation. Actually they would not even be POSSIBLE in any nation, because that much power would not be concentrated in one man's hands, and all the above services would be directed to the PEOPLE in normal nations not the GOVERNMENT. Even if we forgive the 30 years of oppression, corruption, lies and $70 billion stolen, surely someone should be held to account for the above, or not?
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: many will also face retribution such as the “organizers.” They'll use torture tactics on them that in essence will make them wish they never got involved. Then of course will be the police payback, especially of those who “hattoo fee damaqhum”/remember in a bad way. Some of course will die, some will disappear for good. Some will lose their jobs and pensions.
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: I think you need to answer for what you caused, sure.
Oookay … thanks for clearing that up.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
This is what I was asking about earlier. How many people in isolated spots have simply relied on state TV, random texts etc and see everything in an entirely different light?
Yet the fact that, by what even Nevermind says, even they aren't clamouring for HM to stay is telling.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt: I am not going along with the bickering on here. Enough people - most of all the Egyptians - are so much already divided right now in their opinions which hinders any proper progress in negotiations between the current government and opposition groups and in the long run hurts all Egyptians.
Instead I want to focus on other issues f.e. WHY MUBARAK CAN'T LEAVE IMMEDIATELY THE OFFICE:
What Mubarak must do before he resigns
By Hossam Bahgat and Soha Abdelaty Saturday, February 5, 2011
CAIRO
As Egyptian citizens and human rights defenders, we have been on the streets here, including in Tahrir Square, since Jan. 25 to demand dignity and freedom for all Egyptians. There is nothing we want more than an immediate end to the Mubarak era, which has been marred by repression, abuse and injustice. We are heartened by the international community's shift from demanding "restraint" and "responsiveness" to echoing our call for Hosni Mubarak to step down and for an immediate transition toward democracy.
But for a real transition to democracy to begin, Mubarak must not resign until he has signed decrees that, under Egypt's constitution, only a president can issue. This is not simply a legal technicality; it is, as Nathan Brown recently blogged for ForeignPolicy.com, the only way out of our nation's political crisis.
Egypt's constitution stipulates that if the president resigns or his office becomes permanently "vacant," he must be replaced by the speaker of parliament or, in the absence of parliament, the chief justice of the Supreme Constitutional Court. In the event of the president's temporary inability to exercise his prerogatives, the vice president is to take over as the interim head of state. In both cases a new president must be elected within 60 days. Significantly, the constitution prohibits the interim president from introducing constitutional amendments, dissolving parliament or dismissing the cabinet.
If today Mubarak were no longer available to fulfill his role as president, the interim president would be one of two candidates. If he chooses to leave the country, say for "medical reasons," the interim president would be Omar Suleiman, the former intelligence chief who was recently made vice president. Egyptians, particularly those of us calling for an end to Mubarak's three-decade rule, see Suleiman as Mubarak II, especially after the lengthy interview he gave to state television Feb. 3 in which he accused the demonstrators in Tahrir Square of implementing foreign agendas. He did not even bother to veil his threats of retaliation against protesters.
On the other hand, if Mubarak is pushed to resign immediately we would have an even worse interim president: Fathi Surur, who has been speaker of the People's Assembly since 1990. Surur has long employed his legal expertise to maintain and add to the arsenal of abusive laws that Mubarak's regime has used against the Egyptian people. Since neither Suleiman nor Surur would be able to amend the constitution during the interim tenure, the next presidential election would be conducted under the notoriously restrictive election rules Mubarak introduced in 2007. That would effectively guarantee that no credible candidate would be able to run against the interim president.
So before Mubarak resigns he must sign a presidential decree delegating all of his authorities to his vice president until their current terms end in September. Mubarak issued similar decrees, transferring his powers to the prime minister, when he was hospitalized in 2004 and 2009. In addition, Mubarak must issue decrees lifting the "state of emergency" that has allowed him to suppress Egyptians' civil liberties since 1981 and ordering the release or trial of those held in administrative detention without charge - estimated to be in the thousands.
Also before Mubarak resigns, an independent commission of respected judges, constitutional law experts, civil society representatives and all political movements should draft language to amend the constitution to ensure that presidential elections are open to all credible candidates; that Egyptians abroad are allowed - for the first time - to vote; that any elected president is allowed to serve only two terms; and that the elections are supervised by judicial and civil monitors. Most of this will be a matter of undoing the damage Mubarak inflicted with his constitutional changes in 2007.
These amendments must be introduced in parliament and put to a public referendum immediately. Suleiman's claim that time is short is unfounded and disingenuous; four years ago, Mubarak and his ruling party amended 34 articles of the constitution in only two months.
Next, a diverse caretaker government must be appointed to serve the people until a president is elected and, importantly, to oversee the interim president. This broad-based cabinet must include well-respected representatives of all the country's political forces. Once a new president is elected, we can move toward drafting a constitution that ensures Egypt's transformation from a dictatorship to a democracy and enshrines full equality and human rights. Free and fair parliamentary elections would follow.
Three additional elements are key for the transition to succeed: First, civilian oversight of the police and security forces will deter abuse, hold abusers accountable, and help ensure the safety of those participating in the democratic uprising. Second, establishing an independent board of trustees for state television and radio would ensure neutrality in programming and representation of all political views. Third, a strong commitment by the army to act as a neutral custodian of the transition, serving the interests of the people and not the delegitimized regime, is critical.
Egyptians have paid a heavy price the past three decades and an even steeper one since this revolution started. Let's end Mubarak's rule the right way so we can start building a better future.
1. In Emergency law that has lasted 30 years NO ONE has had their constitutioanl rights, so why is The Constitution even mentioned?
2. How long does it take to sign a paper?
3. Assuming as he is such an important constitutional leader with all these pressing matters to do before he 'can' resign, he will have some pact with the Almighty that he doesn't suddenly die like normal people? What would happen if that happened?
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
And STABILITY - LOL! Is it possible for there to be stability in a country where 40% live below the poverty line, where 40% are illiterate and the state education system produces only illiterates - no exaggeration there.
How come he couldn't fix that in 30 years?
There never has been stability, that's why there was an emergency law, so you could be disappeared and tortured if you complained about him or his gang of thugs.
It was a volcano and the hot lava was bubbling below the surface, it finally erupted.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Regarding the view, presented without irony, that an orderly transition to democracy can only take place if the criminal dictator remains in power, a moment's reflection will reveal its absurdity.
In the closing stages of the second world war the did the allies need to keep Hitler in power in order to carry out an orderly transition to democracy? No, they needed to prosecute him and his henchmen. Did Suharto preside over an orderly transition in Indonesia, or Ceausescu in Romania? Just think about it for a second.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Mubarak's 9 biggest mistakes By Blake HounshellTuesday, February 1, 2011
As hundreds of thousands of angry protesters mobbed downtown Cairo to denounce his 30-year rule, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak delivered an utterly unapologetic speech Tuesday evening, vowing to safeguard his country's stability and security while announcing that he would not seek a 6th term.
Defending his record and saying he would "die on Egyptian soil," Mubarak indicated that he he had no intention of following the example of former Tunisian president Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali and fleeing ignominiously into exile.
Almost immediately, the demonstrators in Tahrir Square renewed their calls for his ouster, rejecting his bid to remain in office for another few months. It seems that Mubarak has made yet another mistake, one that may ultimately lead him to share Ben Ali's fate. So what were his biggest blunders?
1. Failing to spread the wealth. Egypt's economy as a whole has grown by a respectable amount, but most Egyptians don't feel they've gotten their fair share. Instead, they see wealthy businessman with ties to the ruling National Democratic Party stealing the country's riches.
2. Allowing corruption to pervade Egyptian life. If there's one thing Egyptians complain about, it's the grand and petty corruption that makes it nearly impossible for anyone in the country to make an honest living. Getting anything done requires a bribe (the infamous baksheesh) and/or connections (wasta), and high-level embezzlement is rampant.
3. The vision thing. Say what you want about Gamal Abdel Nasser and Anwar Sadat, but Mubarak's two predecessors knew where they wanted to take the country and had a plan for getting there. Nasser wanted to create a pan-Arab union under the banner of socialism and non-alignment, while Sadat sought to regain Egypt's martial pride before making peace with Israel and joining the West. As for Mubarak, what does he offer Egyptians? Crumbling infrastructure, decaying socio-economic conditions, and utter fealty to the United States.
4. Half-hearted reforms. Egyptians have grown rightly cynical at their-government's on-again off-again reform efforts, characterized by unpersuasive propaganda or Orwellian doublespeak. When they hear the word "reform," Egyptians look for the catch, such as the constitutional amendment that more or less bars independent candidates from contesting the presidency.
5. Grooming Gamal. If there's one thing nearly all Egyptians agree on, it's that they don't want to be ruled by Mubarak's British-educated son. Over the last decade, Gamal played an increasingly visible role in setting domestic policy, tying his fortunes to unpopular liberal economic reforms and wealthy businessmen who are seen as corrupt and out of touch with ordinary Egyptians. Some of the most popular chants at demonstrations in recent years were variants of "No to inheritence!"
6. Underestimating the activists. Clearly, the Interior Ministry and the police were not prepared for the surge of protesters that first hit the streets on January 25. Accustomed to small demonstrations organized by Egypt's utterly inept, fractious opposition parties, the security forces clearly expected more of the same. But the organizers behind the current uprising are networked, tech-savvy young people who obviously know how to connect with their audience and get the word out. They're not from the political parties. The police were clearly rocked back on their heels, exhausted, and outmaneuvered last Friday -- and that's when the army had to step in.
7. Cheating too much. In most of the parliamentary contests during his 30 year reign, Mubarak has allowed a token number of seats to go to opposition parties. But in the 2010 elections, the NDP's rigging got out of control, leaving only a handful of seats for the coopted Wafd Party. The Muslim Brotherhood was shut out, leaving it with no stake in the government and the patronage opportunities that go along with representation in parliament.
8. Sending in the thugs. After the police forces mysteriously dissolved Friday, reports came streaming in of looters attacking people in the streets, breaking into shops and homes, and otherwise intimidating ordinary Egyptians. Many of these thugs were found to be carrying police or state security IDs. If Mubarak's hope was to drive the middle class back into the loving arms of the state, it seems he badly miscalculated -- the protests have only gotten bigger since then.
9. Bringing in his cronies. Despite his Friday speech vowing to enact various unspecified political and constitutional reforms, Mubarak named his spy chief Omar Suleiman his vice president, dumped his cabinet, and named a retired Air Force general as his prime minister. Opposition leaders and analysts rightly interpreted this as a sign of business as usual.
This is hardly an exhaustive list, and I imagine Mubarak will make a few more major mistakes in the days ahead. What do you all think he got wrong? Please weigh in below.
Do you think he'll pay Egypt's national debt before he goes, he can afford to.
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
HM goes or does not go - it is even not an issue in "isolated spots", while demonstrations are. People could not care less if he goes or stays, no one sees him as the sole culprit and that I think is the biggest mistake of the demonstrants making them look pretty ignorant indeed. Corruption, yes, but a long list of those who are seen corrupted, and I do not see HM is heading it. Violence, again indeed, but then why demand the president to leave, demand a better police force and that they respect human rights. Etc. Demand better elections. In a word - have realistic demands and more to to the point. While demanding that a state basically surrender it to that moment's whimsical wishes of some thousands of young people.. that's foolish indeed. So they get what they want, so they come again tomorrow and what will they need then? Cheaper Blackberries for everyone and McDonalds to keep its prices? And if not then let president go?
The demand is totally groundless, I think indeed parallel with a 2 year old is very proper here, and that is why no normal government could ever realistically yield to it.
Exciiled, do not aggaravate me by saying you are one more of those journalists who do not get a thing. Did you ever live in Egypt and then where - in Ma'adi? Did you even speak to any Egyptians here beyond the bowab, beyond that he deliver to you the morning paper? Because I see alarming quantities of foreigners spending indeed years in Egypt and then moving out, and they could not know less about Egypt and Egyptians.
HM personally is cruel? He caused it all? Really, I do not know him personally so I do not know. But from what I see going on in villages here I would say - the society here is several levels more cruel than you are used to in a silky-smooth country. Human life simply costs less here, and not by president's decree. So if you transfer local rules to US or EU, yes, very cruel. But please do not do that. Do not transfer rules and opinions automatically like US is alarmingly doing even in its foreign policy. What goes on usually befits the location and you cannot change it overnight. Though you can start improvements.
I do not see MB is used as a card so much. Journalists speculate about it countlessly, but Egyptian people themselves do not see them as a card. Not that one could totally forget them, but still, not much widespread influence. So I do not see any fear mongering. But there has to be natural caution of course because the region is not exactly dominated by peacekeepers. You have to look out for who might see their big window of opportunity in the situation.
It is the prime task of ANY government to secure peace and stability in the country, first of all. With the measures that work in that territory, with those people. You have an objection to it, Exiiled, or what?
And no government is ever too intelligent or too advanced, there are dissatisfied citizens in far more advanced countries. So, for god's sake, allow these here also be quite not so perfect, perhaps.
Finally, the best way to advancement is to simply offer a clearly better solution. When everyone runs to grab and support it, immediately forgetting the old one, you do not even need any fighting! While what you try to fight with, absolutely will fight back. What a waste of resources then, going back and forth with no result at all, clear examples of that in the neighbourhood here, too.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Some suggest the protesters created the chaos. Others rightly point out that it was the government that did so. It violently attacked the protesters, closed down the internet, released violent prisoners from jails, caused violence and looting, further attacked a murdered protesters and closed down the banking system and hence most economic activity.
But there is a deeper way in which the government created chaos. By usurping the sovereign will of the people the government had already broken the sacred bond between the government and the governed and a descent into chaos and disorder was inevitable.
The solution to this chaos is not a return to blink obedience to illegitimate authority, but a casting off of its yoke, as a snake casts off its dead skin, and a re-uniting of the people for their common good. There is no mystery to this. A people, united, is free to do what it wants. It is endowed by nature with that freedom.
What chemical in the sands of Egypt prevents the people who live there from living as they please? All that is needed is the unity of the people behind a common will directed towards their common good and the power to execute that that will. This is why the state has always been afraid of a free assembly of the people. The government, whose role is to preserve the freedom of the people, has become its greatest enemy. They are enemies of the people and therefore criminals. Do we need criminals to ensure an orderly transition to the rule of law?
Posted by cbrbddd (Member # 3891) on :
According to some ppl I've seen posting on FB, everything is back to normal because the shops are open in Zamalek and she can sit out in a cafe.
But How long before it is truly "normal"????
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: HM goes or does not go - it is even not an issue in "isolated spots", while demonstrations are. People could not care less if he goes or stays, no one sees him as the sole culprit and that I think is the biggest mistake of the demonstrants making them look pretty ignorant indeed. Corruption, yes, but a long list of those who are seen corrupted, and I do not see HM is heading it. Violence, again indeed, but then why demand the president to leave, demand a better police force and that they respect human rights. Etc. Demand better elections. In a word - have realistic demands and more to to the point. While demanding that a state basically surrender it to that moment's whimsical wishes of some thousands of young people.. that's foolish indeed. So they get what they want, so they come again tomorrow and what will they need then? Cheaper Blackberries for everyone and McDonalds to keep its prices? And if not then let president go?
The demand is totally groundless, I think indeed parallel with a 2 year old is very proper here, and that is why no normal government could ever realistically yield to it. Exciiled, do not aggaravate me by saying you are one more of those journalists who do not get a thing. Did you ever live in Egypt and then where - in Ma'adi? Did you even speak to any Egyptians here beyond the bowab, beyond that he deliver to you the morning paper? Because I see alarming quantities of foreigners spending indeed years in Egypt and then moving out, and they could not know less about Egypt and Egyptians. HM personally is cruel? He caused it all? Really, I do not know him personally so I do not know. But from what I see going on in villages here I would say - the society here isseveral levels more cruel than you are used to in a silkysmooth etc
You know what, I stopped reading. You clearly cant be bothered to read others' opinions, you ignore posts and you just continue to rephrase your perspective. Right, so that's what the folk in your small part of Egypt think. Thanks for that - no need to keep reposting your opinion as if you spoke for all egyptians. When you're ready, you might want to read what other people living in the capital city are reporting is happening around them
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: HM goes or does not go - it is even not an issue in "isolated spots", while demonstrations are. People could not care less if he goes or stays, no one sees him as the sole culprit and that I think is the biggest mistake of the demonstrants making them look pretty ignorant indeed. Corruption, yes, but a long list of those who are seen corrupted, and I do not see HM is heading it. Violence, again indeed, but then why demand the president to leave, demand a better police force and that they respect human rights. Etc. Demand better elections. In a word - have realistic demands and more to to the point. While demanding that a state basically surrender it to that moment's whimsical wishes of some thousands of young people.. that's foolish indeed. So they get what they want, so they come again tomorrow and what will they need then? Cheaper Blackberries for everyone and McDonalds to keep its prices? And if not then let president go?
Corruption - if he is not personally corrupt - $70billion - he is still responsible for a corrupt system. If he can't fix it, then he has to let someone else try, not cling to his position. Are you pro-dictatorship, by any chance?
Violence - demand a better police force? Where have you been? The Egyptian people have been demanding a better police force for 30 years, people have been detained, tortured, killed, gone to court, demanding a better police force. Nothing changed.
Better elections? your naivety is astounding. Every election is contested and rigged and Mubarak wins 97-99%. He's made Egypt the laughing stock of the world! People 'demand' better elections - does he listen?
The whole reason for demanding he leave is that he never listened to 'demands' for the very basic human rights that YOU enjoy. He just sent his thugs to silence people.
It is a absolutely OUTRAGEOUS and totally patronizing to those young people who have lost their lives in this uprising that you call their demands for social justice 'whimsical' and compare them to cheaper blackberries. Are you related to Marie Antoinette?
And it's not only young people protesting. I am old and there were many like me at the demonstrations.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Someone obviously has their head quite firmly planted in the sand, with no intention to take it out. Sometimes it truly is a waste of time to try to help people understand. They clearly do not want to see anything.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Most of the people I've encountered either personally or via friends want to get back to work tomorrow and intend to. Not just the middle classes but the craftsmen and labourers too.
If someone could come up with a constructive and practical way of ensuring the ongoing safety of the demonstrators, that might be a good use of hot air.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Surely corruption starts from the top and works it's way down As I have already said as have many others the movement may have been started by young people but now it is all ages! Many feeling brave enough to come out and protest, mostly for the first time in their lives. I keep hearing that proportionally it is a small amount compared with the entire population but not everyone can leave their work or afford to lose what wages they get or can physically get there due to distance or money. That does not mean they are not behind the protesters. When we had a million people on the streets of London marching against the Iraq war there was no way I could go as I am at the opposite end of the country but I backed them 100%
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by cbrbddd: According to some ppl I've seen posting on FB, everything is back to normal because the shops are open in Zamalek and she can sit out in a cafe.
But How long before it is truly "normal"????
Yes, I have too heard this... it seems most folk are trying to move on as normal...
Some schools are having a 'soft opening' and many private KG's are opening tomorrow.
The ring road today was busy and so was salah salem... it looks pretty much the same but with dozens upon dozens of armed tanks and checkpoints everywhere.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Most of the people I've encountered either personally or via friends want to get back to work tomorrow and intend to. Not just the middle classes but the craftsmen and labourers too.
If someone could come up with a constructive and practical way of ensuring the ongoing safety of the demonstrators, that might be a good use of hot air.
We are going back to work tomorrow. We would never have been off work if Mubarak and regime hadn't shut the country down. The demonstrations can still take place on weekends and after work. The town centre also needs a huge clean up. All the streets radiating off Tahrir look like a war zone, barricades, rubbish, broken pavements, barbed wire. I would suggest a clean up campaign - bring a broom and bin bag. More and more demands are being met... the opposition groups talking... just the stubborn old man. Why oh why should one single human being be allowed to cause such misery and chaos?
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
I think the "vision" in the above issues needs some clarification, too
1. Failing to spread the wealth.
IMHO it does not really matter if big businesses are connected to the government or not, Big businesses never "spread the wealth", so the only ones suffering here are simply other big businesses who are not so well connected. It all happens above our heads this way or the other.
While Egypt has one of the most vivacious environments for entrepreneurship, I think the nation consists of born businessmen! The best way of spreading wealth - stepping in and working at getting your bit of it! Drastically impeded in these days now, though, the small ones indeed will take the hardest blow here. Thanks so much, Tahrir - Shoubra, Imbaba, Haram etc will so love you!
2. Allowing corruption to pervade Egyptian life.
It is of course by president's decree those things go on and by no means the work of all those who push the roll to have their issue move a bit faster?
3. The vision thing.
Sadat and Nasser perhaps were romantics with an overwhelmingly military vision? The common Egyptians indeed craved those visions so much, too? What about a safer and better life, simply? You know the utilities are well managed when you mostly can forget about them, and so it is with the states, too, actually.
4. Half-hearted reforms.
Name five states here who are especially good, unerring, with their reforms. OK, name one? Or would you want to write a recipe book on how to bake a good country? Most states move on by trial and error, general enlightement of folks playing a big role here.
5. Grooming Gamal.
Ok, so the man is partial to his son, I presume you'd never be of yours? So don't elect him! No one even knows or cares there is election day here so whom do you really point at?
6. Underestimating the activists.
Government has done quite well with activists, gaining authority and sympathy with every move. HM does not really enter the picture here any more.
7. Cheating too much.
May be true, but is part of that everyone has long ago accepted the parliament is what it is and the president is who he is, but that for the time being there are no clear, trustworthy alternatives.
So, perhaps instead of wasting time on protests and fighting some people could sit at their books with the aim of one day becoming one? As they seem to have pretty high ambitions anyway, so put them into right use perhaps?
8. Sending in the thugs.
Well, sometimes you need to paint it red for them, or what? I mean here the mysterious disappearance of the oh-so-unpopular police, who then had the chance to reappear when they were already heartily missed. Brilliant, or what? Thugs I would not bet on if they were sent or what (don't they have any own initiative at all?), but wouldn't it be indeed also brilliant for them to carry those IDs sort of by default, because wouldn't it so much ease their daily "work"? Producing false ID's is after all also a pretty lucrative thug business or what.
It is in general very insecure people who love conspiracy theories so I am not so keen on these.
9. Bringing in his cronies
Hmm... did anyone have better candidates to produce, within a few hours time? Then why were you silent?? Read again point 6 here, too.
I now have to leave you again, unfortunately, to go spread enlightenment in some other, equally confused venues . After a short but important postscriptum:
I always liked Egyptians well but I am now positively falling in love with them so much I could eat each and everyone. The folks are just great mostly, and there is so much wisdom up in the management levels! I think the ones in Tahrir can be forgiven, we all have our worse moments in life and.. youth are basically the same everywhere. They need to fight against what there is, but they never have a solution for the day after. Always trying to pick apart those clocks, to see what is inside, but never able to put them back together. A dangerous clock this time, though.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart:
When we had a million people on the streets of London marching against the Iraq war there was no way I could go as I am at the opposite end of the country but I backed them 100%
I was there for you And when I went to work the next day, there were pictures of Bin Laden pasted all over my desk and the guys spent the next week calling me Osama.
And Tony Bliar ignored us all anyway - someone remind me how he got the job of Middle East 'peace' envoy?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Can you report a post on the grounds of gross stupidity?
Sorry. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Sorry.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Nevermind... are you winding us up?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Edited. I just read neverminds post. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I just formed mine of nevermind based on her last response and I'm not going to waste another second oF my time on such stupidity.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Can you report a post on the grounds of gross stupidity?
Sorry. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Sorry.
lol, made me laugh. Maybe that's what the point is, comic relief for all of us after all the tension. Keep it up! Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Just as well you can't in hindsight. I would have been banned yonks ago Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Can you report a post on the grounds of gross stupidity?
Sorry. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Sorry.
lol, made me laugh. Maybe that's what the point is, comic relief for all of us after all the tension. Keep it up!
hahahahahaha.... report report report
I have more history in Egypt than some protesters have had wisdom teeth
Being talked to and talked at differ... maybe some folk should consider this when conveying their views.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: HM goes or does not go - it is even not an issue in "isolated spots", while demonstrations are. People could not care less if he goes or stays, no one sees him as the sole culprit
Sorry, but that is simply not true. No matter what you, I, or anyone else think about this issue, there *are* a fair number of Egyptians that do see him as the sole or main culprit. It does not matter what their percentage is, they do exist, and saying they don't is a lie.
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: whimsical wishes of some thousands of young people..
Have you been watching the news, or been out there, or spoken to people who went to the demonstrations? The demonstrators are not exclusively young people, there were people from all walks of life.
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: I think indeed parallel with a 2 year old is very proper here
Would it be possible to stick to the facts and have a rational discussion without silly insults?
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Did you ever live in Egypt and then where - in Ma'adi? Did you even speak to any Egyptians here beyond the bowab, beyond that he deliver to you the morning paper? Because I see alarming quantities of foreigners spending indeed years in Egypt and then moving out, and they could not know less about Egypt and Egyptians.
Are you suggesting that all of those who live here and don't agree with you are living in denial, have never ventured out of their expat scenes and never talk to locals? Because that's surely how it sounds, and it's a pretty patronizing suggestion. What makes you assume you are the only one here who is in touch with *the real Egypt*?
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: I do not see MB is used as a card so much. Journalists speculate about it countlessly, but Egyptian people themselves do not see them as a card.
Oh really? Strangely enough, many Egyptian friends I have spoken to over the past days are freaking about about the MB.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_egypt:
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
I wonder if you would have told that to the people holding the Monday demonstrations in 1989.
Stop comparing apples to oranges, Dalia.
Am I? Why?
This is a serious question.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
You post it but refuse to comment. Kinda cowardly, eh.
Who cares what the special envoy thinks. It it's not the policy of USA.
And in any case, it is more than apparent that the pro-democracy protestors are relentless until Mubarak steps down.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
First the US Government say he should go, next they say he should stay, and at the same time they're not getting involved.
I'm starting to like our little sprat of a PM. At least he's consistent in his tutting.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
"He has given 60 years of his life to the service of his country, this is an ideal moment for him to show the way forward."
The man's senile. Reagan was president when Mubarak came to power, he got Alzheimer's and died. Thatcher was PM when Mubarak came to power, she's got Alzheimer's and is half dead.
No Western state would tolerate 30 years of one leader, why should we? And he paid himself very nicely for his service to the country.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
You post it but refuse to comment. Kinda cowardly, eh.
Who cares what the special envoy thinks. It it's not the policy of USA.
And in any case, it is more than apparent that the pro-democracy protestors are relentless until Mubarak steps down.
Yes, if you like, I'm a coward.
I'm a foreigner, here in Egypt, and fairly easily identifiable.
Forgive me if I'm not standing 4000 miles away giving it some wellie.
I respect that. I know you are in a very difficult position. I knew it from day 1. If so remain neutral here on ES. You are an admin, how about not backing pro-democracy movement or pro-Mubarak? Keep it clean and do your job on ES? Let the members dictate the vibe of this forum?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
You post it but refuse to comment. Kinda cowardly, eh. Who cares what the special envoy thinks. It it's not the policy of USA. And in any case, it is more than apparent that the pro-democracy protestors are relentless until Mubarak steps down.
You know what, stuff you. I'm here in Egypt, you ain't.
I think both of you have strong and valid opinions and I would love for you both to express them without either of you feeling attacked by the other. Exiiled - lots of posts in this tread without comments. No need to provoke shanta. Shanta, he's in Amman and if I recall his wife is Egyptian. So his viewpoint isn't that isolated.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
You post it but refuse to comment. Kinda cowardly, eh.
Who cares what the special envoy thinks. It it's not the policy of USA.
And in any case, it is more than apparent that the pro-democracy protestors are relentless until Mubarak steps down.
Yes, if you like, I'm a coward.
I'm a foreigner, here in Egypt, and fairly easily identifiable.
Forgive me if I'm not standing 4000 miles away giving it some wellie.
I respect that. I know you are in a very difficult position. I knew it from day 1. If so remain neutral here on ES. You are an admin, how about not backing pro-democracy movement or pro-Mubarak? Keep it clean and do your job on ES? Let the members dictate the vibe of this forum?
I am a member of this forum and have been for 5 years. I have been an admin for just about a month if I recall correctly. There is nothing that says I can't post my views in any case. My job as an admin is basically to zap swear words and insults
I have not backed either movement on here and have tried to show two sides of arguments which I have done before on other contentious issues and which I know annoys some people during the heat of passion.
The main thrust of what I have said on here is that the situation is not black and white and is not a class-based issue.
And also that Egyptians have to solve it for themselves.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
You post it but refuse to comment. Kinda cowardly, eh.
Who cares what the special envoy thinks. It it's not the policy of USA.
And in any case, it is more than apparent that the pro-democracy protestors are relentless until Mubarak steps down.
Yes, if you like, I'm a coward.
I'm a foreigner, here in Egypt, and fairly easily identifiable.
Forgive me if I'm not standing 4000 miles away giving it some wellie.
I respect that. I know you are in a very difficult position. I knew it from day 1. If so remain neutral here on ES. You are an admin, how about not backing pro-democracy movement or pro-Mubarak? Keep it clean and do your job on ES? Let the members dictate the vibe of this forum?
I am a member of this forum and have been for 5 years. I have been an admin for just about a month if I recall correctly. There is nothing that says I can't post my views in any case. My job as an admin is basically to zap swear words and insults
I have not backed either movement on here and have tried to show two sides of arguments which I have done before on other contentious issues and which I know annoys some people during the heat of passion.
The main thrust of what I have said on here is that the situation is not black and white and is not a class-based issue.
And also that Egyptians have to solve it for themselves.
That's cool. Support M u game.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
I hope no one will be offended by this I just thought I would lighten things up with this text I received, also I appreciate that if you don't understand Scottish dialect it might go amiss but here goes: The Egyptian Government has come up with a plan to stop the riots in Cairo. They've told their people to get in their cars, honk their horns and chill out. They're calling it "Toot-n-Kalm-Doon" Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: I hope no one will be offended by this I just thought I would lighten things up with this text I received, also I appreciate that if you don't understand Scottish dialect it might go amiss but here goes: The Egyptian Government has come up with a plan to stop the riots in Cairo. They've told their people to get in their cars, honk their horns and chill out. They're calling it "Toot-n-Kalm-Doon"
I got it......
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: I hope no one will be offended by this I just thought I would lighten things up with this text I received, also I appreciate that if you don't understand Scottish dialect it might go amiss but here goes: The Egyptian Government has come up with a plan to stop the riots in Cairo. They've told their people to get in their cars, honk their horns and chill out. They're calling it "Toot-n-Kalm-Doon"
hahahaha.. Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
:--)
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
I did not understand Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: I did not understand
The way it is said it ends up sounding like Tutankhamun Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret:
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: I hope no one will be offended by this I just thought I would lighten things up with this text I received, also I appreciate that if you don't understand Scottish dialect it might go amiss but here goes: The Egyptian Government has come up with a plan to stop the riots in Cairo. They've told their people to get in their cars, honk their horns and chill out. They're calling it "Toot-n-Kalm-Doon"
hahahaha..
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
Conclusion now is that every damn thing in this country will change, the parliament, the constitution, the president, the ruling party..but will the people really change ?? Will the spirit of Jan 25th. reflect on every aspect of Egyptian attitude ?? Will we ever become organised and move forward ? Its easy to shout and holler slogans..people have lost their lives for those slogans..now its time to work on making life better for this nation of 80+ million.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
hear hear!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
conclusion? I have had a revolution break today, what's happened?
In war torn Luxor we had a nice day sailing the Nile taking pics of the revolution and danger here. Got graphic pix of kids running about.......playing football. Amazing shots of protesting Buffalo bathing and we did see a field on fire! Corniche just needs a bit of tumbleweed and it would be a perfect pic Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
Check this out..Cairo's not Luxor I can assure you.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
HM's wealth.. Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
Some people are claiming that they are impartial because they don't choose between the two movements. But to frame the issue in terms of two movements, rather than the state versus the people, is already partial. The so-called pro-Mubarak movement never had to deal with being shot dead in the street. Imagine if it had been the other way round: police shooting pro-Mubarak supporters and army standing by while off-duty police and escaped convicts pelted them with stones and shot at them?
Check out the video in this Huffington post article. A man stands in the middle of the street plainly declaring himself unarmed and police appear to shoot him dead. Do you still want to stand even between the two?
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Check this out..Cairo's not Luxor I can assure you.
I know that Dzosser, the point I was making that although the FO have warned against travel to Cairo, Alex, Suez and Luxor there is nothing going off here IN Luxor to be warned against. I also know very well what is happening in Cairo having been glued to it for 12 days either on net or tv. Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Wiping ones head in relief Glad I didn't upset anyone! Sorry Tareq!
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
"...As for Mubarak himself who is the son of farmers.."
the son of farmers accumulated a fortune of billions Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by longusername: Some people are claiming that they are impartial because they don't choose between the two movements. But to frame the issue in terms of two movements, rather than the state versus the people, is already partial. The so-called pro-Mubarak movement never had to deal with being shot dead in the street. Imagine if it had been the other way round: police shooting pro-Mubarak supporters and army standing by while off-duty police and escaped convicts pelted them with stones and shot at them?
Check out the video in this Huffington post article. A man stands in the middle of the street plainly declaring himself unarmed and police appear to shoot him dead. Do you still want to stand even between the two?
The comments in the huffington post about this video are really shocking. People saying it's fake, that we don't know the "real" story behind it. Who cares what the "real" story was? He was executed!
Does anyone know what the women were saying on the video? Did they know him? How horrible to watch.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Protesters held signs reading "Islam Is The Solution For Egypt," "Need For Allah's Law, Not Man Made Law," and "Democracy Will Bring Oppression." That last one may seem curious in light of Islamic supremacists' calls for democracy elsewhere, as in Jordan. But actually the Islamic supremacists in England and those in Jordan share the same outlook. The difference is that in Jordan they're calling for free elections, because they know they'll win them. In England, the democracy they're denouncing is that which substitutes what they regard as manmade law for "Allah's law," i.e., Sharia. That Islamic law is as manmade as any product of a free republic is not an option that occurs to them. Nor do they consider that society should be structured in a way such that those who don't believe in Allah's law may be left alone to ignore it as they wish; instead, they have to be subjugated under its heel.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
It's pretty clear he was backing away from them when they shot him too. Don't know how the 'real' story could justify that.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Protesters held signs reading "Islam Is The Solution For Egypt," "Need For Allah's Law, Not Man Made Law," and "Democracy Will Bring Oppression." That last one may seem curious in light of Islamic supremacists' calls for democracy elsewhere, as in Jordan. But actually the Islamic supremacists in England and those in Jordan share the same outlook. The difference is that in Jordan they're calling for free elections, because they know they'll win them. In England, the democracy they're denouncing is that which substitutes what they regard as manmade law for "Allah's law," i.e., Sharia. That Islamic law is as manmade as any product of a free republic is not an option that occurs to them. Nor do they consider that society should be structured in a way such that those who don't believe in Allah's law may be left alone to ignore it as they wish; instead, they have to be subjugated under its heel.
ROFL, say them while comfortable living in a democracy in UK. Will they all come back if the MB get in I wonder? Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
The Way Forward
Today started with two very important facts: 1) The Mass resignation of important Mubarak regime figures from their posts in the Ruling National Democratic Party, including his longtime crony Safwat ElSherif and his own son Gamal Mubarak ; 2) The number of people who called me asking what the next move for the Tahrir Protesters will be and were disappointed by the lack of a clear way forward to the movement. They feared the protests would lose momentum and this historic moment would slowly dwindle and die.
Now, I am not a leader of this movement, and god knows I would be loathe to name myself as a spokesperson for the 5 million individuals nationwide who have joined these protests. If anything, I am simply a promoter and a participant who is way too proud of the fact that this is a movement with no leaders or representatives. In many ways this has helped the cohesion and unity of those protests: people agreed on a set of demands that promote general democracy, accountability and freedom. Demands that promote self-governing and personal rights no matter what your ideological leanings may be. We thought that was enough, and now we are thinking it might not be after all.
If we are to assess the successes of the movement so far, there have been a few key victories, but not any truly major ones. Mubarak says he won’t run again, but he won’t step down. Mubarak will change the constitution but will use the same parliament that has election fraud indictment tarring over 85% of its members. Even with today’s news, what the NDP did so far has been more cosmetic than actual change. We shouldn’t be appeased by it. Mubarak is still President, Emergency law is still in effect, the parliament hasn’t been dissolved, new elections haven’t been called for and the constitution is still that flexible document that the ruling party can change whenever they see fit. Even though we appear to be winning, we are not by a long shot.
Now, regarding the way forward, so far we seem to have two options on the table : 1) For the Jan 25 protests to remain as is: anarchic yet goal-oriented; & 2) the Wisemen’s council , which is currently being promoted as the third option between the Government’s Stubbornness and the Protesters unyielding persistence . They are gaining traction amongst those who do need leaders to represent their views and negotiate with the government, and their proposal is worth considering. The problem with the Wisemen’s council as a third option is this: while it is respectable and contains prominent Egyptian leaders and businessmen, I am not sure what leverage they got on either side or if either side would accept it as a mediating force.
That being said, the status quo just won’t due. This lack of action and organization will be used against us (the protesters) in every way possible. The participants will start complaining about the lack of direction or movement leaders. The government will start complaining that the protesters haven’t offered a single person to represent them and negotiate with the government for them, and that the protesters don’t know what they want. Mind you, this is utter rubbish: It’s not that the protesters don’t know what they want (you can read about their demands everywhere), it’s that their demands are so nonnegotiable for them, that it makes no sense for them to engage in negotiations until a number of those demands get realized. Thus, Gridlock!
So here are my two cents: next time when you head to Tahrir, alongside blankets and food and medicine, please get some foldable tables, chairs, papers, pens, a laptop and a USB connection. Set up a bunch of tables and start registering the protesters. Get their names, ages, addresses & districts. Based on location, start organizing them into committees, and then have those committees elect leaders or representatives. Do the same in Alex, In Mansoura, in Suez, in every major Egyptian city in which the Protesters braved police suppression and came out in the thousands. Protect the Data with your life. Get encryption programs to ensure the security of the data. Use web-based tools like Google documents to input the data in, thus ensuring that even if your laptops get confiscated by State Security Goons, they won’t find anything on your harddrives. Have people outside of Egypt back-up your data daily on secure servers. Then, start building the structure.
You see, with such Proper citizen organization and segmentation, we’ll have the contact information and location of all the protesters that showed up, and that could be transformed into voting blocks in parliamentary districts: i.e. a foundation for an Egyptian Unity party. That Egyptian Unity Party will be an Umbrella party that promotes equality, democracy & accountability, without any ideological slants. It should be centrist, because we don’t want any boring Left vs. Right squabbling at that stage. Once you institute the structure, start educating the members on their rights and their obligations as citizens. Convince them to bring their friends and relatives into meeting. Establish voters’ critical mass , all under that party.
The Egyptian Unity Party, however, will not be a permanent structure, but rather a transitional entity with a clear and direct purpose: create the grassroots organization to take back the parliament and presidency in the next elections. Once sufficient votes and seats have been obtained, the party will amend the constitution to promote civil liberties, plurality, and truly democratic elections. Once that constitution is in place, the party can disband, and its elected members can start forming their own parties and collations, based on their personal beliefs and ideologies, or they can join any of the existing parties, and breathe some life into their decaying carcasses. We will end up with an actual political process and representative political parties that will actually discuss policy and have to represent those who voted for them so that they can get re-elected. Democracy in action. An old but brilliant concept. A way to ensure that no matter what, we will have a huge influence on who becomes the next Egyptian President come election day in September.
I am extremely hopeful we can do this. So far we have proved all the critics and the haters wrong. It’s time to do that again!
omg.Ayisha....I thought to start with you'd written 'the way forward' and was amazed at how smart you were!
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
I was just talking about the importance of registering voters last night to my husband. I have a feeling there are millions of Egyptian citizens, home and abroad, that are not registered since, why bother when all the elections are rigged? There definitely should be a massive movement to register people, once there is a clear and honest way to do it and the embassies should get involved as well so that everyone, no matter where they are, if they are Egyptian citizens can register.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Maybe the new ID cards will be a help in this, though I know not everyone has them.
Posted by marydot (Member # 15932) on :
I know someone who is in egypt right now,they were at Tahrir Square together,shots were fired,his friend got shot straight through the head his funeral was yesterday.
quote:Originally posted by marydot: I know someone who is in egypt right now,they were at Tahrir Square together,shots were fired,his friend got shot straight through the head his funeral was yesterday.
This is awful to read.
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
marydot: very sorry for your and your friend's loss. I know it isnt a comfort now, but someday hopefully you will have peace knowing it was honorable and for a good cause. I hope as I know we all hope, these losses will not be in vain, and they will CARTAINLY not be forgotten. my prayers for peace are with his family.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
That video is awful, that poor man is clearly not armed and is showing them that. He is jus trying to protect the protesters as we have seen in countless other videos. There was no need to shoot him
Marydot sorry to hear the news about your friends friend
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
Robert Fisk: The wrong Mubarak quits. Soon the right one will go
The old man is going. The resignation last night of the leadership of the ruling Egyptian National Democratic Party – including Hosni Mubarak's son Gamal – will not appease those who want to claw the President down. But they will get their blood. The whole vast edifice of power which the NDP represented in Egypt is now a mere shell, a propaganda poster with nothing behind it.
The sight of Mubarak's delusory new Prime Minister Ahmed Shafiq telling Egyptians yesterday that things were "returning to normal" was enough to prove to the protesters in Tahrir Square – 12 days into their mass demand for the exile of the man who has ruled the country for 30 years – that the regime was made of cardboard. When the head of the army's central command personally pleaded with the tens of thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators in the square to go home, they simply howled him down.
In his novel The Autumn of the Patriarch, Gabriel Garcia Marquez outlines the behaviour of a dictator under threat and his psychology of total denial. In his glory days, the autocrat believes he is a national hero. Faced with rebellion, he blames "foreign hands" and "hidden agendas" for this inexplicable revolt against his benevolent but absolute rule. Those fomenting the insurrection are "used and manipulated by foreign powers who hate our country". Then – and here I use a precis of Marquez by the great Egyptian author Alaa Al-Aswany – "the dictator tries to test the limits of the engine, by doing everything except what he should do. He becomes dangerous. After that, he agrees to do anything they want him to do. Then he goes away".
Twenty-two lawyers were arrested by Mubarak's state security police on Thursday – for assisting yet more civil rights lawyers who were investigating the arrest and imprisonment of more than 600 Egyptian protesters. The vicious anti-riot cops who were mercifully driven off the streets of Cairo nine days ago and the drug-addled gangs paid by them are part of the wounded and dangerous dictator's remaining weapons. These thugs – who work directly under ministry of interior orders – are the same men now shooting at night into Tahrir Square, killing three men and wounding another 40 early on Friday morning. Mubarak's weepy interview with Christiane Amanpour last week – in which he claimed he didn't want to be president but had to carry on for another seven months to save Egypt from "chaos" – was the first hint that stage four was on the way.
Al-Aswany has taken to romanticising the revolution (if that is what it truly is). He has fallen into the habit of holding literary mornings before joining the insurrectionists, and last week he suggested that a revolution makes a man more honourable – just as falling in love makes a person more dignified. I suggested to him that a lot of people who fall in love spend an inordinate amount of time eliminating their rivals and that I couldn't think of a revolution that hadn't done the same. But his reply, that Egypt had been a liberal society since the days of Muhammad Ali Pasha and was the first Arab country (in the 19th century) to enjoy party politics, did carry conviction.
If Mubarak goes today or later this week, Egyptians will debate why it took so long to rid themselves of this tin-pot dictator. The problem was that under the autocrats – Nasser, Sadat, Mubarak and whomever Washington blesses next – the Egyptian people skipped two generations of maturity. For the first essential task of a dictator is to "infantilise" his people, to transform them into political six-year-olds, obedient to a patriarchal headmaster. They will be given fake newspapers, fake elections, fake ministers and lots of false promises. If they obey, they might even become one of the fake ministers; if they disobey, they will be beaten up in the local police station, or imprisoned in the Tora jail complex or, if persistently violent, hanged.
Only when the power of youth and technology forced this docile Egyptian population to grow up and stage its inevitable revolt did it become evident to all of these previously "infantilised" people that the government was itself composed of children, the eldest of them 83 years old. Yet, by a ghastly process of political osmosis, the dictator had for 30 years also "infantilised" his supposedly mature allies in the West. They bought the line that Mubarak alone remained the iron wall holding back the Islamic tide seeping across Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. The Muslim Brotherhood – with genuine historical roots in Egypt and every right to enter parliament in a fair election – remains the bogeyman on the lips of every news presenter, although they have not the slightest idea what it is or was.
But now the infantilisation has gone further. Lord Blair of Isfahan popped up on CNN the other night, blustering badly when asked if he would compare Mubarak with Saddam Hussein. Absolutely not, he said. Saddam had impoverished a country that once had a higher standard of living than Belgium – while Mubarak had increased Egypt's GDP by 50 per cent in 10 years.
What Blair should have said was that Saddam killed tens of thousands of his own people while Mubarak has killed/hanged/tortured only a few thousand. But Blair's shirt is now almost as blood-spattered as Saddam's; so dictators, it seems, must now be judged only on their economic record. Obama went one further. Mubarak, he told us early yesterday, was "a proud man, but a great patriot".
This was extraordinary. To make such a claim, it was necessary to believe that the massive evidence of savagery by Egypt's state security police over 30 years, the torture and the vicious treatment of demonstrators over the past 13 days, was unknown to the dictator. Mubarak, in his elderly innocence, may have been aware of corruption and perhaps the odd "excess" – a word we are beginning to hear again in Cairo – but not of the systematic abuse of human rights, the falsity of every election.
This is the old Russian fairy tale. The tsar is a great father figure, a revered and perfect leader. It's just that he does not know what his underlings are doing. He doesn't realise how badly the serfs are treated. If only someone would tell him the truth, he would end injustice. The tsar's servants, of course, connived at this.
But Mubarak was not ignorant of the injustice of his regime. He survived by repression and threats and false elections. He always had. Like Sadat. Like Nasser who – according to the testimony of one of his victims who was a friend of mine – permitted his torturers to dangle prisoners over vats of boiling faeces and gently dunk them in it. Over 30 years, successive US ambassadors have informed Mubarak of the cruelties perpetrated in his name. Occasionally, Mubarak would express surprise and once promised to end police brutality, but nothing ever changed. The tsar fully approved of what his secret policemen were doing.
Thus, when David Cameron announced that "if" the authorities were behind the violence in Egypt, it would be "absolutely unacceptable" – a threat that naturally had them shaking in their shoes – the word "if" was a lie. Cameron, unless he doesn't bother to read the Foreign Office briefings on Mubarak, is well aware that the old man was a third-rate dictator who employed violence to stay in power.
The demonstrators in Cairo and Alexandria and Port Said, of course, are nonetheless entering a period of great fear. Their "Day of Departure" on Friday – predicated on the idea that if they really believed Mubarak would leave last week, he would somehow follow the will of the people – turned yesterday into the "Day of Disillusion". They are now constructing a committee of economists, intellectuals, "honest" politicians to negotiate with Vice-President Omar Suleiman – without apparently realising that Suleiman is the next safe-pair-of-hands general to be approved by the Americans, that Suleiman is a ruthless man who will not hesitate to use the same state security police as Mubarak relied upon to eliminate the state's enemies in Tahrir Square.
Betrayal always follows a successful revolution. And this may yet come to pass. The dark cynicism of the regime remains. Many pro-democracy demonstrators have noticed a strange phenomenon. In the months before the protests broke out on 25 January, a series of attacks on Coptic Christians and their churches spread across Egypt. The Pope called for the protection of Egypt's 10 per cent Christians. The West was appalled. Mubarak blamed it all on the familiar "foreign hand". But then after 25 January, not a hair of a Coptic head has been harmed. Why? Because the perpetrators had other violent missions to perform?
When Mubarak goes, terrible truths will be revealed. The world, as they say, waits. But none wait more attentively, more bravely, more fearfully than the young men and women in Tahrir Square. If they are truly on the edge of victory, they are safe. If they are not, there will come the midnight knock on many a door.
quote:Originally posted by longusername: Some people are claiming that they are impartial because they don't choose between the two movements. But to frame the issue in terms of two movements, rather than the state versus the people, is already partial. The so-called pro-Mubarak movement never had to deal with being shot dead in the street. Imagine if it had been the other way round: police shooting pro-Mubarak supporters and army standing by while off-duty police and escaped convicts pelted them with stones and shot at them?
Check out the video in this Huffington post article. A man stands in the middle of the street plainly declaring himself unarmed and police appear to shoot him dead. Do you still want to stand even between the two?
That's exactly how I feel too. Last night I displayed both emotions and intolerance and being intolerant was wrong. Support for Mubarak under any guise gets under my skin. It is freedom and transparency vs authoritarian and no right. That's black and white. It is the people vs the brutal regime.
Everything was fine here then a few members started posting Mubarak was not a monster, it's not black and white, just a small bunch of people and so on appeared. That is disturbing, very disturbing. The Egyptian people have been victimized and brutalized for 30 years. And the regime has used all sorts of excuses to justify their oppression. It disturbs me beyond words how these illegitimate justification tactics are being replicated here.
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
What a piece of literature, and such emotions! Has anyone here read Graham Greene's "Quiet American"? The description is available widely in the Web and quite suffices for those willing to understand. So many years later the intelligent, well-educated idealists still exist, all around.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Invitation to Exiiled: fly to Cairo, post the name of the luxury 5* hotel you will put up in online. Post your full name. Then go demonstrate. Then post up pictures and videos of yourself at the demonstration.
You are deliberately twisting my words.
Shut up.
I am not going to comment any further.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by marydot: I know someone who is in egypt right now,they were at Tahrir Square together,shots were fired,his friend got shot straight through the head his funeral was yesterday.
Condolences to him and to his friends family.
What is his name?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Invitation to Exiiled: fly to Cairo, post the name of the luxury 5* hotel you will put up in online. Post your full name. Then go demonstrate. Then post up pictures and videos of yourself at the demonstration.
You are deliberately twisting my words.
Shut up.
I am not going to comment any further.
Just read a piece in the Haaretz newspaper about one of the keys, if not main key to Israel's fast development, “intellectual capital.” Thinking ahead I'm wondering how many Egyptians will be enthusiastic to return under a democratically led government. Everyone knows that Egypt suffered a massive brain drain. Think about it, under the NDP did Egypt progress in any scientific industry? It's evident they did a good job at building many bad roads, but other than that what else has Egypt advanced in? Distasteful Satellite channels, borderline talented pop singers?
@SQ “The worst thing you can do for those you love are the things they could and should do themselves “ - Abraham Lincoln. Not saying I fully agree with this because those protesting with Egyptians on the streets are incredible human beings.
We can however do what they can't do for themselves, such as pressuring our governments. Encouraging the western media to give Egypt more attention. We can also spread the videos of protests to people and organizations that otherwise wouldn't have seen them.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I have to disagree about foreigners protesting on the streets. For me, seeing people do this really gets my goat. If you don't have the right to vote in a country, it isn't your place to dictate who their government should be.
Pressuring our own governments is fair enough, but there's only so far they can go before it amounts to the same thing.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I am not clear why Exiiled is choosing now to wage a vendetta against me and increase stress levels in an already stressful situation. He does not know my personal opinions on this subject. Anything he thinks he knows he does not because patently his expensive schooling did not include logic. Thats it.
Perhaps he would care to stick a sensible discussion on the different points of view on this subject instead of making insinuations.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I have to disagree about foreigners protesting on the streets. For me, seeing people do this really gets my goat. If you don't have the right to vote in a country, it isn't your place.
Pressuring our own governments is fair enough.
A few demonstators is no problem, because they can be lost within the masses. But if State Tv takes footage of a group of westerners protesting, it can be very damning to the pro-democracy cause.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I am not clear why Exiiled is choosing now to wage a vendetta against me and increase stress levels in an already stressful situation. He does not know my personal opinions on this subject. Anything he thinks he knows he does not because patently his expensive schooling did not include logic. Thats it.
Perhaps he would care to stick a sensible discussion on the different points of view on this subject instead of making insinuations.
SQ, chillout. You've typed “that's it” twice in the past hour or so, but you're still at it. Cool.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Really Exiled why not expend your energy on someone who's disagreeing with your viewpoints, instead of someone who values their life?
Shanta's points are all very valid. I haven't posted video myself because it's obvious where I live from the video and lord knows I don't want a visit from the goon squad.
Maybe you don't value your life, but some of us others do.
Which is the point I was making the other day about not going out and giving my life to protest, and that no one else should be giving their life either.
Who are you to say that others should endanger themselves in any fashion?? Particularly when you are so far away and not in any danger yourself!
Give the lady a rest already!
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Exiiled, i have been impressed with most of the things you have been posting up until late and i am not quiet sure if there is an ongoing history between you and SQ but you really are being unfair. She is in a difficult position all round. I have met her in the past and found her to be a kind, intellectual person. If she says she wont put her 2 pennies worth in i can only guess but i figure its for a very good reason. I hear she is now admin on the board and if she wanted to become petty about your attacks i am sure she could be, but yet she has taken your abuse and done nothing.
The situation in Egypt is very fragile with families taking different sides of the fence. This has the potential to become a civil war which would be a disaster. SQ has told us she has friends on both sides of the fence and she wishes to publically remain on the fence. Thats her choice and we shoud respect her for that. She is living in it not us. I am sure she has her opinions right there in the forfront of her mind but doesnt want to share it on the board. As an admin it is also her job to be neutural.
Dont let this turn into our own civil war in here. Can we just drop the insults and get back to keeping each other informed
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
@LovedOne @miffmiss – SQ said “that's it”, and I agree, what more can I say.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
i feel the same. i have both family and friends here that have different viewpoints. i have some who are protesting, some who are neutral, and some who are opposite. i know how i feel and my husband knows how i feel. we are just hoping everyone is safe and noone else has to die.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
"This is what happens in transitions: opposition elites in smoke-filled rooms strike out compromises while the protesters get shut out"
It is unfortunate, but the youths failed to anoint a leader. Their disposition which was circulated Feb 3, stressed three points. 1.) Mubarak resign 2.) Opposition does not represent them 3.) Those responsible for the violence must face trial.
The opposition consists of ElBaredie movement, Wafd, MB, April 6, Kefaya, etc. The Military is also involved in the talks.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Ayman Mohelydin, AJE/AJA reporter and anchor, posted youtube link of video titled “police kill boy in cold blood” on his twitter page and now is arrested.
----------- Egypt Stability Hinges on a Divided Military
WASHINGTON — A classified cable sent to Washington from the United States Embassy in Cairo in 2008 reported that a disgruntled midlevel Egyptian officer corps referred to the country’s powerful defense minister, Field Marshal Mohamed Tantawi, as “Mubarak’s poodle” — incompetent and archaic but intensely loyal to his now-besieged president. ….
Report from AJE: The army is the one detaining journalist. Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
how bad is it now?seems to not be gettin any better out there
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
(translated in Google, too much to translate manually - The Constitution is an Egyptian newspaper)
Published the original text of the Constitution of the press release issued after the meeting, Omar Suleiman, Vice President of the Republic a number of representatives of opposition parties and the Muslim Brotherhood and Youth Liberation:
"Jointly adopted by all parties to dialogue on the appreciation and respect for the movement on January 25, and the need to address the serious and urgent and the Secretary with the current crisis faced by the nation, and with the legitimate demands of the youth of January 25 the political forces in society,
taking into full account the adherence to constitutional legality in the face of challenges and risks facing Egypt in the wake of this crisis, a decline in the security of citizens and the disruption to their interests, and paralysis of the facilities, stopping to study in universities and schools, and bottlenecks in accessing basic needs of the people, and the right of the Egyptian economy from the damage and losses, as well as the current crisis of the attempts of foreign interference in the affairs of Egypt pure, and breach of security of the foreign elements alien to our society is working to destabilize the implementation of the schemes, with the recognition that the movement of January 25 a national movement and honest
The parties agreed the national dialogue on a number of political arrangements and procedures constitutional, legislative, coincided with each other to be temporary in nature and until the election President of the country after the end of the current mandate for the presidency, and so on as follows:
First: the implementation of the commitments contained in the speech of Mr. President Mohammad Hosni Mubarak to the nation on the first of January, namely: -
1) not to run for a new term.
2) to achieve a peaceful transition of power in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution.
3) constitutional amendments include the materials (76) and (77) and the necessary constitutional amendments required by the other process of peaceful transition of power.
4) to make the necessary legislative amendments Almertptp amendments to the Constitution.
5) implement the decisions of the Court of Cassation appeals to the People's Assembly elections.
6) prosecution of corrupt, and to investigate the perpetrators of the lawlessness that followed the uprising of young people in accordance with the provisions of the law.
7) restore security and stability of the ton, and ask the police to carry out its role in serving the people and the protection of citizens.
Second: In the implementation of these commitments will be taken the following actions:
1) formation of a committee comprising members of the judiciary and some political figures, shall study and propose constitutional amendments and the requirements of legislative amendments to some laws complementary to the Constitution within a period ending in the first week of March.
2) The government has announced to open an office to receive complaints from prisoners of conscience from all affiliations and release them immediately, with the government's pledge not to pursue them or restricting them to exercise their political activities.
3) liberalization of the media and communications and not to impose any restrictions on their activities beyond the provisions of the law.
4) mandated regulatory agencies and the judiciary to continue to prosecute corrupt officials and what the country had witnessed the loose security during the recent events and hold them accountable.
5) ending the state of emergency in accordance with security conditions and the event of termination of the security threat to the community.
6) confirmed all spectra total rejection of foreign intervention in all its forms and manifestations in the internal affairs of Egypt.
III: Formation of (the national committee for the follow-up), composed of public figures and independent experts, specialists and representatives of the youth movement, is following up on all the faithful implementation of what has been agreed upon, with the lifting of their reports and recommendations to the Vice President of the Republic.
This has commended all parties to the role of the national dialogue faithful to our valiant armed forces at this critical stage, Mwkidn forward to continuing this role in the restoration of calm and security and stability, and ensure the implementation of what has resulted from Ajtmat national dialogue of consensus and understandings. "
نشر الدستور الأصلي نص البيان الصحفي الذي صدر عقب اجتماع عمر سليمان نائب رئيس الجمهورية بعدد من ممثلي أحزاب المعارضة والإخوان وشباب التحرير:
"توافقت كافة أطراف الحوار على تقدير واحترام حركة 25 يناير، وعلى ضرورة التعامل الجاد والعاجل والأمين مع الأزمة الراهنة التي يواجهها الوطن، ومع المطالب المشروعة لشباب 25 يناير والقوى السياسية في المجتمع، آخذين في كامل الاعتبار التمسك بالشرعية الدستورية في مواجهة التحديات والمخاطر التي تواجه مصر في أعقاب هذه الأزمة، من تراجع في أمن المواطنين وتعطيل لمصالحهم، وشلل في المرافق، ووقف للدراسة بالجامعات والمدارس، واختناقات في الوصول بالاحتياجات الأساسية لأبناء الشعب، وما لحق بالاقتصاد المصري من أضرار وخسائر، فضلا عما صاحب الأزمة الراهنة من محاولات للتدخل الخارجي في الشأن المصري الخالص، واختراق أمني لعناصر أجنبية دخيلة على مجتمعنا تعمل على زعزعة الاستقرار تنفيذا لمخططاتها، مع الإقرار بأن حركة 25 يناير حركة وطنية وشريفة وقد اتفقت أطراف الحوار الوطني على عدد من الترتيبات السياسية والإجراءات الدستورية والتشريعية، توافقت فيما بينها على أن تكون ذات طبيعة مؤقتة ولحين انتخاب رئيس للبلاد بعد انتهاء الولاية الحالية للرئاسة، وذلك على النحو الآتي: أولا: تنفيذ التعهدات الواردة في كلمة السيد الرئيس محمد حسني مبارك للأمة يوم أول يناير وهي:- 1) عدم الترشح لفترة رئاسية جديدة. 2) تحقيق الانتقال السلمي للسلطة وفقا لأحكام الدستور. 3) إجراء تعديلات دستورية تشمل المواد (76) و(77) وما يلزم من تعديلات دستورية أخرى تتطلبها عملية الانتقال السلمي للسلطة. 4) إجراء ما يلزم من التعديلات التشريعية المرتبتة على تعديلات الدستور. 5) تنفيذ قرارات محكمة النقض في الطعون المقدمة على انتخابات مجلس الشعب. 6) ملاحقة الفاسدين، والتحقيق مع المتسببين في الانفلات الأمني الذي أعقب انتفاضة الشباب طبقا لأحكام القانون. 7) استعادة أمن واستقرار الطن، وتكليف جهاز الشرطة بالاضطلاع بدوره في خدمة الشعب وحماية المواطنين. ثانيا: وتنفيذا لهذه التعهدات يتم اتخاذ الإجراءات الآتية: 1) تشكيل لجنة تضم أعضاء من السلطة القضائية وبعض من الشخصيات السياسية، تتولى دراسة واقتراح التعديلات الدستورية وما تتطلبه من تعديلات تشريعية لبعض القوانين المكملة للدستور في ميعاد ينتهي في الأسبوع الأول من مارس. 2) تعلن الحكومة عن فتح مكتب لتلقي الشكاوى عن معتقلي الرأي من كافة الانتماءات والإفراج عنهم فورا، مع تعهد الحكومة بعدم ملاحقتهم أو التضييق عليهم في ممارسة نشاطهم السياسي. 3) تحرير وسائل الإعلام والاتصالات وعدم فرض أية قيود على أنشطتها تتجاوز أحكام القانون. 4) تكليف الأجهزة الرقابية والقضائية بمواصلة ملاحقة الفاسدين والمسئولين عما شهدته البلاد من انفلات أمني خلال الأحداث الأخيرة ومحاسبتهم. 5) إنهاء حالة الطوارئ طبقا للظروف الأمنية وحالة إنهاء التهديد الأمني للمجتمع. 6) أكدت كل الأطياف رفضها التام للتدخل الأجنبي بكافة صوره وأشكاله في الشأن الداخلي لمصر. ثالثا: تشكيل (لجنة وطنية للمتابعة) تضم شخصيات عامة ومستقلة من الخبراء والمتخصصين وممثلين عن الحركة الشبابية، تتولى متابعة التنفيذ الأمين لكافة ما تم التوافق عليه، مع رفع تقاريرها وتوصياتها للسيد نائب رئيس الجمهورية. هذا وقد أشادت كافة أطراف الحوار بالدور الوطني المخلص لقواتنا المسلحة الباسلة في هذه المرحلة الدقيقة، مؤكيدن تطلعهم لمواصلة هذا الدور في استعادة الهدوء والأمن والاستقرار، وفي ضمان تنفيذ ما أسفرت عنه اجتماعت الحوار الوطني من توافق وتفاهمات".
Summary: Mubarak not stepping down.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
the journalist the army is detaining is ayman mohyledin. i like him too. whats mohammed el baredei's game? hes said to press that civil war could start. is he trying to be a stirrer and start something? is there any validity to that or is he just blowing hot air?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I've been wondering all along what the difference is exactly between a revolution and a civil war. Apparently:
I guess if he stays in they'll call it a quashed uprising.
All that stuff in Exilled's post is a joke. How can the law be upheld when the very police and the system is corrupt. Nothing is changing.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
@adelly. I don't know, maybe it's as you said, probably blowing off steam. He is clearly frustrated by the negotiations.
@Monkey. The NDP continues to outdo themselves. Just when everyone thought they can be any more insulting, they stoop lower. As if the police are honorable and will abide by their motto “لخدمة الشعب " /(to serve the people). New footage is coming out showing how brutal they are. Just today 2 videos emerged of a boy and a man being killed in cold blood. Another video is of a man who was shot on a bridge, some of his friends tried to evacuate him, with one of them raising his hand in a sign for ceasefire, the bloody police response was firing directly on these helpless men who were carrying their wounded friend, shooting two of them with both falling down lifeless.
Who can trust these wicked perpetrators who inflict lethal violence on their own people.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Hillary Champions Egypt’s Torturer in Chief February 05, 2011| News | James Bovard
Hillary Clinton is championing Egypt’s Torturer in Chief as new leader. I guess the Obama team is hellbent on further disgracing the United States in this ongoing clash.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I've seen the one on the bridge. It's an outrage. Frustrating that all you can do is sit here and say it's an outrage. Very frustrating.
It's this attitude that everyone can just sit down, have a nice cup of tea, then go back to the way things were before. With a thin veneer of change. And they won't take action against any of the protestors, honest. They haven't even released the guy from Google:
And how many journalists are they holding now? These are people in the public light. Imagine what happens with the poor souls we never hear about.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Muslim Brotherhood: Egyptians demanding restoration of Islamic law
(Ahlul Bayt News Agency) - Spokesman of Muslim Brotherhood said that the unprecedented presence of over 7 million Egyptian people in the Friday protests shook the palace of Hosni Mubarak.
Ahmad Mersi told al-Alam news network that the Egyptian revolutionary people demand a restoration of Islamic rules in the country and an ouster of Mubarak's despotic rule. He said the Egyptian people will continue protests until the ruling system is toppled..
I think the Obama team have just started hedging their bets, like the other teams were doing from day one, mine included.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
You know what's also laughable. Hosni Mubarak and Omar Sulieman continue to state that they can't do this or do that because they have to honor the constitution.
What constitution? The constitutional rights of Egyptian citizens have been suspended for 30 years and remain suspended.
-----------------------------------
2 Detained Reporters Saw Police’s Methods
“They left us all night in a cold room, on hard orange plastic stools, under fluorescent lights.
But our discomfort paled in comparison to the dull whacks and the screams of pain by Egyptian people that broke the stillness of the night. In one instance, between the cries of suffering, an officer said in Arabic, “You are talking to journalists? You are talking badly about your country?” A voice, also in Arabic, answered: “You are committing a sin. You are committing a sin.” …......
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: You know what's also laughable. Hosni Mubarak and Omar Sulieman continue to state that they can't do this or do that because they have to honor the constitution.
What constitution? The constitutional rights of Egyptian citizens have been suspended for 30 years and remain suspended.
Thats what I keep saying!
I have been out today but there is absolutely no escape anywhere here, everyone is either discussing it or watching it. I sat with 1 guy today who is almost frozen with fear that the MB will get in, he is Muslim. He thinks, or was told, that they are there in the square today. I don't know as I have not kept up today. He thinks it only need 10 of them in the square to 'work magic on the minds of the people'. The media is hyping this up in every country, just as vww is here constantly. To vw, NO ONE I know or speak to want them, so give up already! These PEACEFUL people in this country, and I mean 99.9999% ARE peaceful, are not going to swap one dictator for another with the MB!
As for the 'he cant leave he has to do this and this' they just cannot SEE what I and Exiiled are saying, what constitution? it has not helped those that it's FOR - the people - for 30 years, so why does babaMu want to stick with it NOW?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Dr Hawass was on TV today and said, with emphatic hand gestures, that HM had to stay to "smooth" the regime so it was ready for transition. I thought the whole point was to get rid of the regime. He also said that they were very happy with all the young protestors for putting their views forward. Yer, I'll bet.
Never thought I'd say this but maybe Metinoot was right about him. He did seem to be talking nonsense today. Just as well she's offline or I'd never hear the end of it Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
What in your opinion should other world governments do?
I have been wondering why they wont do something.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Cutting aid so they can't kill anymore civilians with American bullets wouldn't be a bad start.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: What in your opinion should other world governments do?
I have been wondering why they wont do something.
Do what?
Just reading something here and was doing fine following till I got to this bit:
"In October 1987 Mubarak was re-elected with 97,1% of the votes in an election without opposing candidates."
Am I reading that right?
Politics of anywhere never interested me ever so reading something about 'who was when' in Egypts 'more recent' history.
But does that say what I think it says? Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
@ Monkey, If they cut the aid right now, how would it help? Do you think that Mubarak would care?
@ Ayisha, "% of the votes" could mean that 10 voted and 97.1% of them voted for Mubarak. It doesn't mean anything.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
No, you're probably right, he's like a kamakazi pilot right now, but whoever's trying to wheedle their way in might.
But who did the other 2.9% vote for if there were no other candidates?
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
^^^ a write in candidate? Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey:
But who did the other 2.9% vote for if there were no other candidates?
Thanks, it's not just me then!
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
I'm confused. If the Muslim Brotherhood didn't start this and haven't suffered like many of the demonstrators that we see, why the heck are they the ones talking to the VP?
Also confused about Alexandria. In the beginning the news stations showed both Cairo and Alex. Now it's just Cairo mainly. Did the Alexandrian peeps stop demonstrating or are all of the journalists there in jail?
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
They aren't the only ones talking to the VP, there are several groups represented at the talks.
There is still coverage of Alexandria, just not as much. Most of it is still centered in Cairo. But yes they are still demonstrating in Alex.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
I feel Mubarak is hoping that the longer the stand off goes on that people will lose the momentum and that things will go back to normal but surely things can never go back to the status quo Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
For anyone wondering how all the prisoners managed to "escape" at the same time, here's your answer.
"After the conspicuous disappearance of security forces on the night of Friday, 28 January, conspiracy theories are still rife as to how and why several prisons experienced large-scale escapes in the following days. Al-Masry Al-Youm met with two escapees to hear their stories in hopes of shedding light on the issue.
"Thirty-year-old Galal (not his real name) was sentenced to six years for theft. He had already served three years at Wadi al-Natroon prison, which lies on the Cairo-Alexandria Desert Road. His first direct exposure to sunlight came when a bulldozer tore down the walls of his cell-block on Sunday, 30 January."
The government presumably did this to create a demand for security. Police IDs found on looters confirm this conjecture. The government then blamed the protesters for, amongst other things, the chaotic insecurity which contributed to bringing the economy to a standstill. I believe some contributors to this board shared this belief.
What sort of government would have to lie to its people like this and create the very chaos and disorder it is supposed to prevent? How can it claim any legitimacy? By what authority and on whose behalf does it now purport to negotiate?
Mubarak and his cronies are criminals. They have no business negotiating the future of the nation. Their proper place is in a court of law. Lock up the biggest criminals. Bring back the judges. Give Mubarak what he refused others: a fair trial.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey:
But who did the other 2.9% vote for if there were no other candidates?
Thanks, it's not just me then!
My understanding is that back then (I'm talking from fading memory) the system was that the parliament chose the candidate for the presidency. This is then presented to the people in a referendum on which they vote by yes or no. So I'm guessing that the 97.1% voted Yes and the rest voted No, or posssilby their votes for disqualified for whatever reason (e.g. ticking both yes and no).
The system had then changed when I wasn't looking, lol. Well I wasn't in Egypt. Not sure what it was before last years changes, because I remember the last presidential elections had more than one candidate one of whom ended up in jail!
If someone has more accurate information, please share as I'm not totally sure I've got it right.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: I feel Mubarak is hoping that the longer the stand off goes on that people will lose the momentum and that things will go back to normal but surely things can never go back to the status quo
Yes, it's become a case of who blinks first. I'm really sad and disapointed to say that the revolution seems to be losing momentum. It is now the role of the negotiators, but to negotiate you have to have something to bargain with. All the negotiators have is the protestors rally in Tahrir and the disruption of normal life. If the regime can absorb those, it'll be in a stronger negotiating position.
Now, the average people were getting tired and wanted to restore their livelihood. The fact that life returned back to some sort of normality today is both positive and negative. On the positive side it took the pressure off the average Mo who was starting to get restless with the protests. But on the negative side, once people get back to their normal life, they'll get consumed in "eating bread" or "akl el-eish" as we say in Egypt, i.e. their day to day work and life. In such a case slowly but surely they'll get distracted and detached from the protests. The protestors in Tahrir will become like that fellow in Parliament square in London who's been there for several years. (Although I believe he's been recently evicted after the law was changed).
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
What the world has witnessed the past 2 weeks from Hosni Mubarak and his brutally repressive regime:
* Hundreds of deaths of innocent pro-democracy protesters. Many in cold blood.
* Hundreds of “missing” Egyptian citizens.
* Thousands of Injured Egyptians and many of them severely by every brutal means including but not limited to. Live bullets from guns and machine guns, rubber bullets, knives, clubs, rocks, steel rods, tear gas, etc.
* Detainment, arrests, physical assault and murder of journalists.
* Enough lies by State TV, that their news anchor of 20 years resigned.
* Releasing and unleashing criminals from prisons.
* Hiring thugs to intimidate, murder and beat pro-democracy protesters.
* Spreading propaganda against foreigners, especially western media for telling it like it is.
* Detainment and arrest of human right activists.
These atrocious and murderous acts of violence against Egyptians are consistend with the systematic brutality of the regime. Hosni Mubarak did not just wake up one day and decided to be murderous authoritarian. He and his regime have inflicted these acts of violence on their people for 30 years.
Egypt regime prior to January 25th, 2011
As I mentioned above, Hosni Mubarak did not just wake Jan 25th and decided to become a ruthless authoritarian. Under the Emergency Law, Hosni Mubrak and his regime made people “disappear”, they murdered countless Egyptians, and many after torture and severe beatings. There is a misconception that the victims are Muslim Brotherhood, as if they aren't entitled to fair trials. The truth is the victims are from all walks of life, and basically anyone who dares stand up to the regime, and often for no reason at all. Amnesty international has hundreds of open files of human rights abuses and violations. Many cases are of torture, many murder files. The [b]victims include bloggers, activists, Muslims, Christians, foreignors, lawyers, students, engineers, doctors, housewives, etc.
Here are some cases of ordinary Egyptians that were tortured, killed or “disappeared” at the hands of this brutal regime. Again the victims are from all walks of life.
* ”In October, Mervat Abdel Salam died after police officers raided her home in Samalut, Minya Governorate, and beat her during a robbery inquiry. Although she was pregnant and bleeding, police officers were reported to have locked her in the house, delaying medical assistance. Her family complained to the Public Prosecutor, who ordered an investigation, but the initial forensic medical report concluded that there were no external signs of violence despite injuries visible to her family. Lawyers for the family requested an independent medical report, which later confirmed that there were signs of violence on her body. Police detained several members of Mervat Abdel Salam’s family apparently to pressure them into withdrawing the complaint.” Source: http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/egypt/report-2009
* “Romuald Durand, a French national, was subjected to enforced disappearance for two months after he was arrested at Cairo’s international airport in April. He was handed over to the State Security Investigations (SSI) service who initially held him at Nasr City, Cairo. There, he was reported to have been kept blindfolded and handcuffed for the first 10 days, stripped naked and tortured with electric shocks while his arms and legs were tied and stretched, and threatened with rape. He was released in June without charge and deported to France.” Source:http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/egypt/report-2010
* ”Hani Nazeer, a Coptic Christian and blogger from Qina, was held throughout 2009 under a succession of administrative detention orders issued by the Interior Minister. He was arrested in October 2008 when he surrendered to the police in Nagaa Hammadi, who had detained his brothers and threatened to detain his sisters to force him to surrender. This was after residents of Qina denounced him for commenting in his blog on a book they deemed insulting to Muslims. He was held at Borg al-Arab Prison near Alexandria, despite four court orders for his release. He was reported to have been pressured by security officers in prison to convert to Islam.” Source: Same link as above
* ”Mona Said Thabet and her husband, Yasser Naguib Mahran, were harassed and intimidated by police after she submitted a complaint to the Interior Ministry that her husband had been tortured by police at Shobra al-Khayma before his release in September 2008 because he had refused to become an informer. She reported that police slapped and beat her, stubbed out a cigarette on her face, forcibly shaved her head and threatened to rape her unless she withdraw the complaint. Instead, she filed a further complaint with the Public Prosecutor in Shobra al-Khayma, who ordered an investigation. This led local police to make new threats against her, her husband and their children. She complained to the Public Prosecutor in February, but no action was known to have been taken. In May, families from Shobra al-Khayma demonstrated in Cairo against abuses allegedly committed by the head of the SSI in Shobra al-Khayma police station and to seek the intervention of the Interior Ministry.” Source: Same link as above.
Okay back to the Super Bowl, which really isn't as enjoyable as it was in years past.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Yes RN I totally agree with you.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Egyptian politics, Facebook and Twitter
I had a check back to the beginning of the 'We Are All Khaled Said' Facebook page I first saw only 13 days or so ago to see when it started. The has been gaining international momentum since summer last year, scroll to 'Background story' and read about Khaled Said, the symbol of all Egyptians suffering under this dictatorship.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Egyptian politics, Facebook and Twitter
I had a check back to the beginning of the 'We Are All Khaled Said' Facebook page I first saw only 13 days or so ago to see when it started. The has been gaining international momentum since summer last year, scroll to 'Background story' and read about Khaled Said, the symbol of all Egyptians suffering under this dictatorship.
Very very depressing. Throwing a human being out the window simply because he asked “do you have a search warrant.” Kicking a man to death because they thought he defaulted on paying a back a bank loan. A thaabit beating protesters with a thick wooden stick with all his might. I am 110% convinced the only language this regime knows is violence. Yes elshaheeed.co.uk website is indeed graphic but thanks for sharing. No human being should be subjected to these depraved acts.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Just saw on press tv usa sending 2 warships to red sea. They say its in case they have to evacuate the us citizens in case things worsen.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: Just saw on press tv usa sending 2 warships to red sea. They say its in case they have to evacuate the us citizens in case things worsen.
I don't suppose you could find a link for that online??
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
here you gohttp://www.presstv.ir/detail/164038.html
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Hmmm...
Thanks for the link.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Wha u think?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
hhhmmm, worrying and I think saying it's mainly to evacuate Americans is a *cough* cover.
adelly, if it did get worse there, would you be 'evacuated' or would you stay despite it all?
I think their presence will not please the Egyptians that have in the mind that this wll be another Iraq, this could make things worse here actually.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
This thread got my head spinning and CNN did the rest to it - so I decided to stay off a little from news coming out of Egypt. Honestly following all the happenings unfolding for over a week 24/7 I am overly tired and worn out - and I haven't even participated in the protests like many of the brave Egyptians out there.
I think everyone needs to chill out a little, there will be no fast solution to the current situation as different people have different interests and everybody is trying to get the most out of it. Representatives of the #Jan25 don't want to get into any negociations with Mubarak and his cronies, opposition groups can't even form a uniting front, the MB is made look a scapegoat again in all of this, America demands, Israel wants, the EU in between ..... did I forget anyone????
Of course you can't blame Egyptians to go back to work to make money. Some normality has to be brought back to the country or otherwise everyone will go insane.
Honestly I am very very sad how the whole situation played out like that. Most of the tourists left - literally fled the country. It's a shame cause the Red Sea resorts are still operating and Egyptians need an income.
I think all here have spinning heads too TL, some are having to literally force themselves away from the computer and TV for a day break.
It is sad but at the same time it is sad that it had to come to this, that people had to say "Khalas" 30 years of this is enough.
I think the title of your link should be " Egyptian tourism faces uncertain future as Mubarak continues to be stubborn" though.
After reading through the "We are all Khlaed Said" site I can see this had gained international support from normal people long before Jan 25th, it's simmered for 30 years, it started to boil and now it's made a right mess all over the world when it finally boiled over. They are not going to pack up and go home and this will not stop gaining momentum until babaMu steps down. It's a stand off at the moment, but it's not going to stop becaue now ordinary poor Egyptians have PRIDE and a VOICE and they wont ever give that up again.
The entire world has seen what babaMu is and how this regime has worked. The Cat is well out of the bag.
Posted by tigerlily_egypt (Member # 3567) on :
Clinton hints at unease over early Mubarak exit
By Lachlan Carmichael (AFP) – 14 hours ago
WASHINGTON — The timetable of President Hosni Mubarak's departure lies with the Egyptian people but his early exit could raise electoral complications, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said.
Under pressure from mass protests, Mubarak has pledged to step down after September polls but many demonstrators want his immediate departure and US news reports have suggested Washington was also pressuring him to quit now.
However, Clinton, speaking to reporters Sunday on the way back from international talks on Egypt in Germany, stressed that Mubarak's fate was not up to the United States.
"That has to be up to the Egyptian people," the chief US diplomat said when asked if reality dictated Mubarak play some role in the political transition toward free and fair elections in Egypt.
"As I understand the constitution, if the president were to resign, he would be succeeded by the speaker of the house, and presidential elections would have to be held in 60 days," she said.
"Now the Egyptians are going to have to grapple with the reality of what they must do," she said.
Clinton said, for example, that she had heard a leader from the opposition Muslim Brotherhood as well as leading dissident Mohammed ElBaradei say "it's going to take time" to organize elections.
"That's not us saying it. It's them saying it," she said.
President Barack Obama, meanwhile, also emphasized Egypt's political transition when pressed in an interview Sunday on Fox television whether Mubarak was going to quit now.
"Only he knows what he's going to do. Here's what we know, is that Egypt is not going to go back to what it was," Obama said.
"He's not running for re-election. His term is up this year," he added.
Clinton said retired diplomat Frank Wisner, whom Obama sent to Mubarak with a message last week, did "not speak for the administration" when he said the Egyptian leader should stay in office during the transition.
She, like other members of the administration, have distanced themselves from Wisner's remarks but have not actually said he was wrong.
"President Mubarak's continued leadership is critical," Wisner told the Munich Security Conference, the same one Clinton attended.
"It's his opportunity to write his own legacy. He has given 60 years of his life to the service of his country, this is an ideal moment for him to show the way forward," Wisner said.
Former US vice president Dick Cheney also praised Mubarak as a "good friend" to United States, pointing out that Americans needed to "remember that."
Clinton declined to comment on talks that Omar Suleiman, Mubarak's first vice president in three decades of rule, held Sunday with the Muslim Brotherhood.
She said it was up to Egyptians to decide whether the brotherhood's participation in the transition gave the process credibility.
"There are organizations and individuals whose participation will give credibility in the eyes of some Egyptians and concerns in the eyes of other Egyptians," said Clinton.
Clinton also said Egyptians will have to clear a number of hurdles in order to stage elections in September.
For example, they would have to determine how to "amend the constitution to bring it more in line with the kind of democracy and political system" they seek, and set a deadline for reaching such a goal.
They would have to establish an electoral system that includes voter registration rolls.
She said the United States, European and other countries were ready to offer the expertise to help prepare for the elections.
"We're going to try to work with a lot of like-minded countries around the world to offer whatever assistance we can," she said. "We have experts in holding credible elections, we have experts in writing constitutions."
"This is important, to look over the horizon. You don't want to get to September, have a failed election, and then people feel ... what was the point of it."
Asked if seven months were enough time, she replied: "It's up to them. But I think, with a concerted effort, with the kind of timelines and concrete steps I'm calling for, it could be done.
The timetable of President Hosni Mubarak's departure lies with the Egyptian people but his early exit could raise electoral complications, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said.
For some perspective on what is going on with the US take a look at Noam Chomsky's excellent Guardian piece:
It's Not Radical Islam That Worries The US – It's Independence | Noam Chomsky | Comment Is Free
'The Arab world is on fire," al-Jazeera reported last week, while throughout the region, western allies "are quickly losing their influence". The shock wave was set in motion by the dramatic uprising in Tunisia that drove out a western-backed dictator, with reverberations especially in Egypt, where demonstrators overwhelmed a dictator's brutal police.
Observers compared it to the toppling of Russian domains in 1989, but there are important differences. Crucially, no Mikhail Gorbachev exists among the great powers that support the Arab dictators. Rather, Washington and its allies keep to the well-established principle that democracy is acceptable only insofar as it conforms to strategic and economic objectives: fine in enemy territory (up to a point), but not in our backyard, please, unless properly tamed.
One 1989 comparison has some validity: Romania, where Washington maintained its support for Nicolae Ceausescu, the most vicious of the east European dictators, until the allegiance became untenable. Then Washington hailed his overthrow while the past was erased. That is a standard pattern: Ferdinand Marcos, Jean-Claude Duvalier, Chun Doo-hwan, Suharto and many other useful gangsters. It may be under way in the case of Hosni Mubarak, along with routine efforts to try to ensure a successor regime will not veer far from the approved path. The current hope appears to be Mubarak loyalist General Omar Suleiman, just named Egypt's vice-president. Suleiman, the longtime head of the intelligence services, is despised by the rebelling public almost as much as the dictator himself.
A common refrain among pundits is that fear of radical Islam requires (reluctant) opposition to democracy on pragmatic grounds. While not without some merit, the formulation is misleading. The general threat has always been independence. The US and its allies have regularly supported radical Islamists, sometimes to prevent the threat of secular nationalism.
A familiar example is Saudi Arabia, the ideological centre of radical Islam (and of Islamic terror). Another in a long list is Zia ul-Haq, the most brutal of Pakistan's dictators and President Reagan's favorite, who carried out a programme of radical Islamisation (with Saudi funding).
"The traditional argument put forward in and out of the Arab world is that there is nothing wrong, everything is under control," says Marwan Muasher, a former Jordanian official and now director of Middle East research for the Carnegie Endowment. "With this line of thinking, entrenched forces argue that opponents and outsiders calling for reform are exaggerating the conditions on the ground."
Therefore the public can be dismissed. The doctrine traces far back and generalises worldwide, to US home territory as well. In the event of unrest, tactical shifts may be necessary, but always with an eye to reasserting control.
The vibrant democracy movement in Tunisia was directed against "a police state, with little freedom of expression or association, and serious human rights problems", ruled by a dictator whose family was hated for their venality. So said US ambassador Robert Godec in a July 2009 cable released by WikiLeaks.
Therefore to some observers the WikiLeaks "documents should create a comforting feeling among the American public that officials aren't asleep at the switch" – indeed, that the cables are so supportive of US policies that it is almost as if Obama is leaking them himself (or so Jacob Heilbrunn writes in The National Interest.)
"America should give Assange a medal," says a headline in the Financial Times, where Gideon Rachman writes: "America's foreign policy comes across as principled, intelligent and pragmatic … the public position taken by the US on any given issue is usually the private position as well."
In this view, WikiLeaks undermines "conspiracy theorists" who question the noble motives Washington proclaims.
Godec's cable supports these judgments – at least if we look no further. If we do,, as foreign policy analyst Stephen Zunes reports in Foreign Policy in Focus, we find that, with Godec's information in hand, Washington provided $12m in military aid to Tunisia. As it happens, Tunisia was one of only five foreign beneficiaries: Israel (routinely); the two Middle East dictatorships Egypt and Jordan; and Colombia, which has long had the worst human-rights record and the most US military aid in the hemisphere.
Heilbrunn's exhibit A is Arab support for US policies targeting Iran, revealed by leaked cables. Rachman too seizes on this example, as did the media generally, hailing these encouraging revelations. The reactions illustrate how profound is the contempt for democracy in the educated culture.
Unmentioned is what the population thinks – easily discovered. According to polls released by the Brookings Institution in August, some Arabs agree with Washington and western commentators that Iran is a threat: 10%. In contrast, they regard the US and Israel as the major threats (77%; 88%).
Arab opinion is so hostile to Washington's policies that a majority (57%) think regional security would be enhanced if Iran had nuclear weapons. Still, "there is nothing wrong, everything is under control" (as Muasher describes the prevailing fantasy). The dictators support us. Their subjects can be ignored – unless they break their chains, and then policy must be adjusted.
Other leaks also appear to lend support to the enthusiastic judgments about Washington's nobility. In July 2009, Hugo Llorens, U.S. ambassador to Honduras, informed Washington of an embassy investigation of "legal and constitutional issues surrounding the 28 June forced removal of President Manuel 'Mel' Zelaya."
The embassy concluded that "there is no doubt that the military, supreme court and national congress conspired on 28 June in what constituted an illegal and unconstitutional coup against the executive branch". Very admirable, except that President Obama proceeded to break with almost all of Latin America and Europe by supporting the coup regime and dismissing subsequent atrocities.
Perhaps the most remarkable WikiLeaks revelations have to do with Pakistan, reviewed by foreign policy analyst Fred Branfman in Truthdig.
The cables reveal that the US embassy is well aware that Washington's war in Afghanistan and Pakistan not only intensifies rampant anti-Americanism but also "risks destabilising the Pakistani state" and even raises a threat of the ultimate nightmare: that nuclear weapons might fall into the hands of Islamic terrorists.
Again, the revelations "should create a comforting feeling … that officials are not asleep at the switch" (Heilbrunn's words) – while Washington marches stalwartly toward disaster.
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: No, you're probably right, he's like a kamakazi pilot right now, but whoever's trying to wheedle their way in might.
But who did the other 2.9% vote for if there were no other candidates?
Can they have been empty votes 2,9%
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Dunno. I just assumed it was votes counted and that a vote had to be for someone. Because there was only candidate in the running logic decreed that candidate had to get 100% of the vote but RN's post would explain it.
Posted by think (Member # 18571) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: Just saw on press tv usa sending 2 warships to red sea. They say its in case they have to evacuate the us citizens in case things worsen.
The information may turn out to be true, but until I started seeing the information from more objective sources, I wouldn't rely on the Iranian state media for information about the US government's actions.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
this says more than 12 US warships and at least one Israeli....sounds a bit excessive if its just to get people out when there are planes....what the hell are they up to?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
You post it but refuse to comment. Kinda cowardly, eh.
Who cares what the special envoy thinks. It it's not the policy of USA.
And in any case, it is more than apparent that the pro-democracy protestors are relentless until Mubarak steps down.
U.S. Special Envoy Embarrasses Administration
Frank Wisner, Barack Obama's special envoy to Egypt, "veered wildly off-message" when he spoke to the Munich security conference, notes the Guardian. Wisner, who had just returned from Cairo, advocated for Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to stay in office and seemed to be arguing that the world owed him that much. "President Mubarak's continued leadership is critical," he said. "It's his opportunity to write his own legacy. He has given 60 years of his life to the service of his country and this is an ideal moment for him to show the way forward." Western officials were confused by Wisner's words, particularly since they came soon after Secretary of State Hillary Clinton endorsed an orderly and slow transition led by Vice President Omar Suleiman. The "whole episode was a reminder of the inherent problems in hiring special envoys from the ranks of retired diplomats who no longer feel constrained by State Department discipline," writes the Guardian's Julian Borger.
Obama scrambles to limit damage after Frank Wisner makes robust call for Mubarak to remain in place as leader.
Frank Wisner, President Barack Obama's envoy to Cairo who infuriated the White House this weekend by urging Hosni Mubarak to remain President of Egypt, works for a New York and Washington law firm which works for the dictator's own Egyptian government.
Mr Wisner's astonishing remarks – "President Mubarak's continued leadership is critical: it's his opportunity to write his own legacy" – shocked the democratic opposition in Egypt and called into question Mr Obama's judgement, as well as that of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
The US State Department and Mr Wisner himself have now both claimed that his remarks were made in a "personal capacity". But there is nothing "personal" about Mr Wisner's connections with the litigation firm Patton Boggs, which openly boasts that it advises "the Egyptian military, the Egyptian Economic Development Agency, and has handled arbitrations and litigation on the [Mubarak] government's behalf in Europe and the US".
The correction from $70Million in the article is at the bottom, that's BILLION!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
@Ayisha. Yeah, me neither. Never trust a man whose eyes are too close together. I'm serious.
They're on about UK Warships being in the ME on BBC. I don't know why this is suddenly making the news. The UK has been using the gulf as a training ground for donkey's years.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Good point @think, thank you. I cannot find this story anywhere else but blogs
Think it started with Al Quads Al Arabi, Ayisha.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
You post it but refuse to comment. Kinda cowardly, eh.
Who cares what the special envoy thinks. It it's not the policy of USA.
And in any case, it is more than apparent that the pro-democracy protestors are relentless until Mubarak steps down.
U.S. Special Envoy Embarrasses Administration
Frank Wisner, Barack Obama's special envoy to Egypt, "veered wildly off-message" when he spoke to the Munich security conference, notes the Guardian. Wisner, who had just returned from Cairo, advocated for Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to stay in office and seemed to be arguing that the world owed him that much. "President Mubarak's continued leadership is critical," he said. "It's his opportunity to write his own legacy. He has given 60 years of his life to the service of his country and this is an ideal moment for him to show the way forward." Western officials were confused by Wisner's words, particularly since they came soon after Secretary of State Hillary Clinton endorsed an orderly and slow transition led by Vice President Omar Suleiman. The "whole episode was a reminder of the inherent problems in hiring special envoys from the ranks of retired diplomats who no longer feel constrained by State Department discipline," writes the Guardian's Julian Borger.
Obama scrambles to limit damage after Frank Wisner makes robust call for Mubarak to remain in place as leader.
Frank Wisner, President Barack Obama's envoy to Cairo who infuriated the White House this weekend by urging Hosni Mubarak to remain President of Egypt, works for a New York and Washington law firm which works for the dictator's own Egyptian government.
Mr Wisner's astonishing remarks – "President Mubarak's continued leadership is critical: it's his opportunity to write his own legacy" – shocked the democratic opposition in Egypt and called into question Mr Obama's judgement, as well as that of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
The US State Department and Mr Wisner himself have now both claimed that his remarks were made in a "personal capacity". But there is nothing "personal" about Mr Wisner's connections with the litigation firm Patton Boggs, which openly boasts that it advises "the Egyptian military, the Egyptian Economic Development Agency, and has handled arbitrations and litigation on the [Mubarak] government's behalf in Europe and the US".
this says more than 12 US warships and at least one Israeli....sounds a bit excessive if its just to get people out when there are planes....what the hell are they up to?
Haaretz is definitely more reliable than Press TV, but are we seeing anything out of US or UK media?
From what Haaretz is saying, it looks like they're putting a naval presence in place to protect the global trade interests should anything happen to endanger the operation of the Suez canal.
It's definitely NOT to evacuate Americans. That may be a side venture if necessary, but there is no way it's the primary purpose.
It is interesting to see how everyone has reached a "consensus" (according to Suleiman) that there will be no foreign intervention, yet the next day US warships are traversing Egyptian waters?
Sort of like what happened yesterday when he promised that all journalists currently in custody would be released and there would be no further arrests. Then 2 hours later Ayman Mohyeldin from Al Jazeera English was arrested by military police, kept blindfolded and hands tied behind his back for almost 6 hours.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
@Exiiled - I thought they were just using reverse psychology. Obama says he has to go, he digs his heels in, this Wisner says he has to stay, so just maybe he'll go.
I don't get it. He wants to go. It looks like people want him to go. So go, while it's still an option. There are suggestions now that the only place he should be going to is the Hague.
They could always send out one of those dodgy Vodafone texts again, get people to reply with a yes or no vote. I did see what looked like perfectly respectable pro Mobarak people marching the other day, but only a tiny minority of the people on the streets.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Good point @think, thank you. I cannot find this story anywhere else but blogs
The correction from $70Million in the article is at the bottom, that's BILLION!
1 – Oh yeah Omar Sulayman is a real charmer. This is an extremely dangerous man. Very manipulative. Israeli politicians describe him as “Sincere, soft spoken gentleman”, underneath the mask is a man that put fear into peoples' hearts. Call me naïve, but this man should have no role in leading a country, especially one that is transitioning to Democracy. Egypt deserves someone who values human rights, not abuses them.
2 - Who would have ever thought Egyptian Farmers were right when they often say “Hosni Mubarak aqna wahid fee dunya” (Hosni Mubarak is the richest man in the world).
Every time I heard that, I was like ahhh shaddaap, It's Bill Gates, Microsoft dude. Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: @Exiiled - I thought they were just using reverse psychology. Obama says he has to go, he digs his heels in, this Wisner says he has to stay, so just maybe he'll go.
I don't get it. He wants to go. It looks like people want him to go. So go, while it's still an option. There are suggestions now that the only place he should be going to is the Hague.
They could always send out one of those dodgy Vodafone texts again, get people to reply with a yes or no vote. I did see what looked like perfectly respectable pro Mobarak people marching the other day, but only a tiny minority of the people on the streets.
And as far as reverse psychology, it wouldn't surprise me. I think Mubarak is afraid, if he steps down and remains in Egypt, he will face consequences. The people are becoming more and more emboldened. If he leaves, there is the possibility that he will face charges. He is simply looking at it from his own self interest. Here's a brief make-up of this man.
1- Brutal Dictator for 30 years.
2- Paranoid to point of declining to have a VP for 30 years.
3-Suspended constitutional righst for 30 days. And Omar Sulayman is adamant that the Emergency Law remain until Mubarak finally leaves office.
4- Amassed tens of Billions of Dollars in wealth, while half his country ate on $2 a day or less.
That is one sick twisted individual.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Good point @think, thank you. I cannot find this story anywhere else but blogs
The correction from $70Million in the article is at the bottom, that's BILLION!
1 – Oh yeah Omar Sulayman is a real charmer. This is an extremely dangerous man. Very manipulative. Israeli politicians describe him as “Sincere, soft spoken gentleman”, underneath the mask is a man that put fear into peoples' hearts. Call me naïve, but this man should have no role in leading a country, especially one that is transitioning to Democracy. Egypt deserves someone who values human rights, not abuses them.
2 - Who would have ever thought Egyptian Farmers were right when they often say “Hosni Mubarak aqna wahid fee dunya” (Hosni Mubarak is the richest man in the world).
Every time I heard that, I was like ahhh shaddaap, It's Bill Gates, Microsoft dude.
I know Im the dumb fairy in Tasmania and I cant get the links together but I read twice that it's $40 billion and then his family have Billions which might add up to the 70 billion....either way it's an obsene amount....surely he's got an island somewhere to retire to and watch Austin Powers?....
and Exiiled I really like how you explain things....I read that twice....I hope we dont see more deaths while he's there....
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
It's dropping out of the news too.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Egypt's Supreme Constitutional Court: Unlawful for the Military to assume power in event of Mubarak stepping down.
AJ Live
Re: Being worn out. This is a marathon and not a sprint. The pro-democracy protesters in Tahrir are adapting and so should their loved ones abroad and even ES. Notice how they are adapting, they have field hospital with volunteer nurses and doctors, tents, food stockpiles, and even entertainment. NY Times wrote a piece yesterday titled - Tahrir Square at Night - Poetry and Performances. Perseverance is the key, and everyone is different, but sustainability is possible, and if at a low point, just look at Tahrir, as long as people are there, all is well.
Seriously, since when does anything truly meaningful come so easy? 30 years of brutality vs 2 weeks of protests, that's nothing. It will take a lot more. Mubarak might remain until September but so should pro-democracy protesters in Tahrir. Giving up that piece of land that has come to globally symbolize freedom will lead to their demise.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
I think among the protesters in the demonstartion there are lots of people with different agendas.
We can't label all protesters to be pro democracy because this is not definite name.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
What If Mubarak has gone now? IMo, Egypt will be a mess and chaos. Mubarak regime is not the best but It can be better than others who are unorganized and unknown.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: I think among the protesters in the demonstartion there are lots of people with different agendas.
We can't label all protesters to be pro democracy because this is not definite name.
Omar Sulayman said the same exact thing in an interview to Christiana Amanpour:
I got a kick out of his facial expressions and body language, quite telling. Especially for a spy chief who should know better.
In 2005-2006 then US ambassador to Egypt stopped short of calling him a liar.
“In a 29 November 2005 cable to Mueller before his visit, Ricciardone said Egyptian authorities "have a long history of threatening us with the MB bogeyman". "Your counterparts may try to suggest that [then president George Bush's] insistence on greater democracy in Egypt is somehow responsible for the MB's electoral success," he wrote. "You should push back that, on the contrary, the MB's rise signals the need for greater democracy and transparency in government.”
“In a follow-up cable on 29 January 2006, Ricciardone seemed to foreshadow the current unrest when he wrote to Mueller: "We do not accept the proposition that Egypt's only choices are a slow-to-reform authoritarian regime or an Islamist extremist one; nor do we see greater democracy in Egypt as leading necessarily to a government under the MB."
The Regime is making it seem like it's Islamist or The Regime, however brutal. Enough lies. Enough manipulation. Enough Misconceptions. Egypt is a moderate nation, with many secular minded people. And the choice should not be labeled as Regime or Islamists!
The history of the regime is very well known. Oppressive Emergency Law, Brutality, murder, torture, and Billions of dollars the NDP made at the expense of their own people.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
It says 'Despite Egypt’s reported refusal to block the canal to Iranian boats, the clearance for the American-Israeli fleet may be a warning to Iran it may face military opposition if the Iranian Red Crescent ship continues on course to Gaza.'
Oh me poor head!...I thought it was going the other way!
( but 'think' thinks it might all be a red herring?)
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
If the protesters reach 5 millions, This is not a majority to change Mubarak.
There is oppression and brutaity every where in the world. and If we changed mubrak or kept it, It will not be an end.
What party are you in, Exiiled?
At the end, I am not pro mubarak or anti mubarak.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: What If Mubarak has gone now? IMo, Egypt will be a mess and chaos. Mubarak regime is not the best but It can be better than others who are unorganized and unknown.
And from my experience speaking with people in Egypt this seems to be a common thought.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Another update from the U.S. Embassy (or Department of State?) in the email.
This replaces the Travel Warning for Egypt dated February 1, 2011. The U.S. Department of State continues to recommend that U.S. citizens avoid travel to Egypt at this time. On February 1, the Department of State ordered the departure of all non-emergency U.S. government personnel and family members from Egypt. U.S. citizens should consider leaving Egypt as soon as they can safely do so, due to ongoing political and social unrest. Large-scale demonstrations with the potential for violence continue in several areas of the country, and there are periodic overland travel disruptions. The Government of Egypt has modified the curfew several times; hours are now 7:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. throughout Egypt until further notice. U.S. citizens should obey curfew orders and remain indoors during curfew hours.
U.S. citizens who wish to depart Egypt should proceed to the airport and secure commercial passage out of the country. Cairo airport is open and operating, and commercial airlines are reporting flight availability from Cairo. Commercial flights are also operating from Luxor, Alexandria, and Aswan airports. Given the current availability of commercial flights, no additional U.S. government-chartered flights are planned. Travelers with the means to do so should make every effort to utilize commercial flights. Some commercial airlines also offer pet transport. Travelers should remain in contact with their airlines or tour operators concerning flight schedules, and arrange to arrive at the airport well before curfew hours. Do not wait for a reply from the embassy or the Department of State before traveling to the nearest airport; further delay is not advised.
Male dual Egyptian – U.S. nationals who have not completed military service and have stayed in Egypt for more than six months are required to obtain an exemption certificate through the Ministry of Defense Draft Office before they can leave Egypt. The Ministry of Defense Draft Office reports they are open daily to provide exemption certificates.
The U.S. Department of State strongly urges U.S. citizens to avoid all demonstrations in Egypt, as even peaceful ones can quickly become violent and a foreigner could become a target of harassment or worse. U.S. citizens who are near demonstrations should remain in their residences or hotels until the demonstrations subside. Security forces may block off the area around the U.S. Embassy during demonstrations, and U.S. citizens should not attempt to come to the U.S. Embassy or the Tahrir Square area during that time. U.S. citizens are urged to remain alert to local security developments and to be vigilant regarding their personal security. U.S. citizens should carry identification and a cell phone that works in Egypt.
The U.S. Embassy will be open only for emergency services to U.S. citizens until further notice. Visit the embassy website at http://egypt.usembassy.gov to check the latest changes to embassy hours or services. Family members of U.S. citizens in Egypt may also enroll them in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) at https://travelregistration.state.gov. U.S. citizens in Egypt, or their loved ones, may contact the U.S. Department of State and the U.S. Embassy in Cairo via email to EgyptEmergencyUSC@state.gov, or at 1-202-501-4444. Please follow the directions on the embassy website for all other consular inquiries.
For the latest security information, U.S. citizens traveling abroad should regularly monitor the Department of State’s Internet website at www.travel.state.gov where the Worldwide Caution, Egypt Country Specific Information, Travel Warnings, and Travel Alerts can be found. Up to date information on security can also be obtained by calling 1- 888-407-4747 toll free in the United States and Canada, or, for callers outside the United States and Canada, a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays).
The Embassy is located at 5 Tawfik Diab Street (formerly known as Latin America Street), Garden City, Cairo. For emergencies after business hours and on weekends and holidays, U.S. citizens can contact the Embassy Duty Officer via the Embassy switchboard on 2797-3300.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
U.S. Govt. Backs Regime that Murders Demonstrators February 06, 2011| News | James Bovard
This Youtube video, produced by Al Jazeera English, vivifies the nature of the government that Hillary Clinton and others are propping up.
I got a kick out of his facial expressions and body language, quite telling. Especially for a spy chief who should know better.
In 2005-2006 then US ambassador to Egypt stopped short of calling him a liar.
“In a 29 November 2005 cable to Mueller before his visit, Ricciardone said Egyptian authorities "have a long history of threatening us with the MB bogeyman". "Your counterparts may try to suggest that [then president George Bush's] insistence on greater democracy in Egypt is somehow responsible for the MB's electoral success," he wrote. "You should push back that, on the contrary, the MB's rise signals the need for greater democracy and transparency in government.”
“In a follow-up cable on 29 January 2006, Ricciardone seemed to foreshadow the current unrest when he wrote to Mueller: "We do not accept the proposition that Egypt's only choices are a slow-to-reform authoritarian regime or an Islamist extremist one; nor do we see greater democracy in Egypt as leading necessarily to a government under the MB."
The Regime is making it seem like it's Islamist or The Regime, however brutal. Enough lies. Enough manipulation. Enough Misconceptions. Egypt is a moderate nation, with many secular minded people. And the choice should not be labeled as Regime or Islamists!
The history of the regime is very well known. Oppressive Emergency Law, Brutality, murder, torture, and Billions of dollars the NDP made at the expense of their own people.
I wholeheartedly agree with you Exiiled, very well put. I find it very patronising to say that Egypt will fall in chaos if Mubarak goes. What if he had died all of a sudden, or when he was in Germany and there was no vice president back then. Egypt servived when Naser died suddenly even though he was much more influential than Mubarak. It survived when Sadat died suddenly. So why can't it servive when Mubarak steps aside whilst he's still alive and there are constitutional procedures in place. Why is Mubarak so indispensible to Egypt? he couldn't possibly be more so than Naser or Sadat were.
Even if the country falls into chaos temporarily, it's well worth it. Any mother knows that the severe pains of labour are more than made up for when she holds her baby in her arms. Egypt is going through a labour process, a democracy is being born, and once we get this sweet baby, the pains of labour will be forgotten.
I'm really surprised that some people would rather live in sh*t, than try to explore alternatives. Whatever the alternative might be, it can't be worse than we're already in. Haven't people watched the link to Khalid Saeed posted above. As some bugger once said "those who trade freedom for security deserve neither". (I think it was Benjamin Franklin if I'm not mistaken).
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
How Great Posted by Lew Rockwell on February 7, 2011 10:16 AM Al Jazeera English has reprinted my column on Egypt.
"A young generation has managed to shrug off an oppressive regime akin to those who revolted against the Soviet-bloc.
Those of the young generation, people too young to remember the collapse of Soviet-bloc and other socialist states in 1989 and 1990, are fortunate to be living through another thrilling example of a seemingly impenetrable state edifice reduced to impotence when faced with crowds demanding freedom, peace, and justice.
There is surely no greater event than this. To see it instills in us a sense of hope that the longing for freedom that beats in the heart of every human being can be realised in our time.
This is why all young people should pay close attention to what is happening in Egypt, to the protests against the regime of Hosni Mubarak as well as the pathetic response coming from his imperial partner, the US, which has given him $60 billion in military and secret police aid to keep him in power.
The US is in much the same situation today as the Soviet Union was in 1989, as a series of socialist dominoes toppled. Poland, Romania, Hungary, East Germany, Bulgaria, and Czechoslovakia all experienced dramatic meltdowns, while the Soviet regime, supportive of these systems since the end of the Second World War, sat by helplessly and watched. Leaders made vague statements about the need for peaceful transitions and elections, while the people on the ground completely ignored them.." [...]
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis: As some once bugger said "those who trade freedom for security deserve neither". (I think it was Benjamin Franklin if I'm not mistaken).
~ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: If the protesters reach 5 millions, This is not a majority to change Mubarak.
There is oppression and brutaity every where in the world. and If we changed mubrak or kept it, It will not be an end.
What party are you in, Exiiled?
At the end, I am not pro mubarak or anti mubarak.
Actually, Tarek, there isn't oppression and brutality everywhere in the world. There are some countries where people who commit crimes against their own people can be prosecuted and removed from power. Egyptians deserve to have basic human rights denied to them. Not all countries have 40% living below the poverty line, 40% illiterate, emergency laws that allow the police to 'disappear' you and torture you and kill you.
We now have a chance for a better life in Egypt. It will take time but it will come. Revolutions don't produce benefits overnight.
Also, demonstrations don't require the whole population to turn out, just a percentage. A larger percentage turned out to change Mubarak than to keep Mubarak. A larger percentage is pro-democracy than anti-democracy or pro-apathy.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
I find it very patronising to say that Egypt will fall in chaos if Mubarak goes. What if he had died all of a sudden, or when he was in Germany and there was no vice president back then. Egypt servived when Naser died suddenly even though he was much more influential than Mubarak. It survived when Sadat died suddenly. So why can't it servive when Mubarak steps aside whilst he's still alive and there are constitutional procedures in place. Why is Mubarak so indispensible to Egypt? he couldn't possibly be more so than Naser or Sadat were.
Patronizing maybe, sad definitely, but living here and talking to people I have found this repeated over and over. From my point of view it's brainwashing. The country is in chaos now, a regime that brutally kills those it should protect and serve for marely having an opinion is in chaos already.
quote:Even if the country falls into chaos temporarily, it's well worth it. Any mother knows that the severe pains of labour are more than made up for when she holds her baby in her arms. Egypt is going through a labour process, a democracy is being born, and once we get this sweet baby, the pains of labour will be forgotten.
what a wonderful way of putting it!
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
Ramses Nemsis, Keep protesting, It is not a solution for any problem. If you want a change in the political regime. You can involve yourself in the regime and try to change it. Protesting is not a soloution or a way to freedom as you claim.
Mubarak is legally elected to be a president till september and You cant force him to step down before the time.
If you want to cancel the law governing the Country, you can better live in the forest because there is a law here.
If you do not want mubarak do not vote for him.
but staying in a square insulting Mubraka or his regime is not a solution..
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Couple marry in Egypt's Liberation Square after demonstrating there for ten days (and 300,000 guests join party)
"Cairo's Tahrir Square, the scene of deadly battles with firebombs, rocks, horses and camels just last week, has taken on a carnival mood - with one couple getting married amid the protests. Dr Ahmad Zaafan, a pharmacologist, and his fiancee Oula Abdul Hamid decided to marry in the square after protesting together there for the last ten days. 'It was either we quit Tahrir to go and have our wedding in an isolated hall or hold a ceremony right here among our people protesting in the square. We chose the latter,' said Hamid, 22, a graduate in computer science.
'These protesters are family now. We have lived, laughed and protested together in this square for the past weeks. Ola and I wanted to share our happiness with everyone,' her new husband, 29, added.
Around 300,000 protesters were around them. Onlookers cheered, ululated and whistled when it was announced over speakers that they had been married by a sheikh on Sunday" [...]
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis: As some once bugger said "those who trade freedom for security deserve neither". (I think it was Benjamin Franklin if I'm not mistaken).
~ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~
wa'eva (aka "whatever" in proper English)
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Hard to consider him a legally elected president when all the elections are rigged and false. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: If the protesters reach 5 millions, This is not a majority to change Mubarak.
There is oppression and brutaity every where in the world. and If we changed mubrak or kept it, It will not be an end.
keep him now and you will be building more prisons and mass graves as there is no way any of those protestors or online activists are going to live longer than a month. Your contry will be blocked from other 'free' countries by internet, phone and tv and you will all pray for the MB to take his place! Think not? He already showed he CAN do it. THEN you WILL have another Iraq or Afghanistan as the rest of the world seriously wont leave the mass bloodshed there will be from those in power to 'protect us' and it will be a great reason for the US and Israel and others to 'liberate' the Suez Canal.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Ramses Nemsis, Keep protesting, It is not a solution for any problem. If you want a change in the political regime. You can involve yourself in the regime and try to change it. Protesting is not a soloution or a way to freedom as you claim.
Mubarak is legally elected to be a president till september and You cant force him to step down before the time.
If you want to cancel the law governing the Country, you can better live in the forest because there is a law here.
If you do not want mubarak do not vote for him.
but staying in a square insulting Mubraka or his regime is not a solution..
Are you Egyptian, Tarek? If so, please answer these questions How can I involve myself in politics? No opposition is allowed. Do you think any Egyptian elections are free and fair? Do you agree with Emergency Laws that allow the police to arrest YOU when you have committed no crime except to express an opinion? These protests have already made enormous gains, so protests do work...
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: If you want a change in the political regime. You can involve yourself in the regime and try to change it.
Mubarak is legally elected to be a president
there is a law here.
If you do not want mubarak do not vote for him.
No comment
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Ramses Nemsis, Keep protesting, It is not a solution for any problem. If you want a change in the political regime. You can involve yourself in the regime and try to change it. Protesting is not a soloution or a way to freedom as you claim.
Mubarak is legally elected to be a president till september and You cant force him to step down before the time.
If you want to cancel the law governing the Country, you can better live in the forest because there is a law here.
If you do not want mubarak do not vote for him.
but staying in a square insulting Mubraka or his regime is not a solution..
Are you Egyptian, Tarek? If so, please answer these questions How can I involve myself in politics? No opposition is allowed. Do you think any Egyptian elections are free and fair? Do you agree with Emergency Laws that allow the police to arrest YOU when you have committed no crime except to express an opinion? These protests have already made enormous gains, so protests do work...
citizen, great minds think alike! I've posted before seeing yours, yet we brought up the same points.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Ramses Nemsis, Keep protesting, It is not a solution for any problem. If you want a change in the political regime. You can involve yourself in the regime and try to change it. Protesting is not a soloution or a way to freedom as you claim.
Mubarak is legally elected to be a president till september and You cant force him to step down before the time.
If you want to cancel the law governing the Country, you can better live in the forest because there is a law here.
If you do not want mubarak do not vote for him.
but staying in a square insulting Mubraka or his regime is not a solution..
Are you Egyptian, Tarek? If so, please answer these questions How can I involve myself in politics? No opposition is allowed. Do you think any Egyptian elections are free and fair? Do you agree with Emergency Laws that allow the police to arrest YOU when you have committed no crime except to express an opinion? These protests have already made enormous gains, so protests do work...
citizen, great minds think alike! I've posted before seeing yours, yet we brought up the same points.
It's a very exciting time, RN, had a debate session at work today with all staff, 25 of them. Many different opinions but all excited about a future of freedom and democracy and better life for new generations, and nobody had ever voted before but are now all keen to do so.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Ramses Nemsis, Keep protesting, It is not a solution for any problem. If you want a change in the political regime. You can involve yourself in the regime and try to change it. Protesting is not a soloution or a way to freedom as you claim.
Mubarak is legally elected to be a president till september and You cant force him to step down before the time.
If you want to cancel the law governing the Country, you can better live in the forest because there is a law here.
If you do not want mubarak do not vote for him.
but staying in a square insulting Mubraka or his regime is not a solution..
A fair election has more than one candidate, or what is the point of an election?
Yes there is a law here, one that allows the 'protectors' to arrest, beat and kill, or lock up without trial for as long as they wish, for any reason they can dream up at the time. Apart from that, there is NO law here.
Ok don't vote for him, vote for ............ah there was no one else to vote for because under his law, opposition is not allowed
Tareq I totally understand your, and masses of others, fear and confusion now, you have known nothing else and it works, 'we have survived so far' attitude and fear of change, I understand it. But the Police are protectors of a country's citizens, not the ones to fear unless you are a criminal. In this regime the police ARE the criminals and from the police upwards people do as they wish for their own agenda. This is endemic (is that the right word?) in this entire culture from top to bottom. The bad apples in the barrel are rotting the good purely because those at the top are corrupt those at the bottom have nothing so become corrupt so they can EAT.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Thanks Tareq, you write:
"What If Mubarak has gone now? IMo, Egypt will be a mess and chaos."
In fact, Mubarak has already gone and there is no chaos.
Best Wishes, LUN
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Ramses Nemsis, Keep protesting, It is not a solution for any problem. If you want a change in the political regime. You can involve yourself in the regime and try to change it. Protesting is not a soloution or a way to freedom as you claim.
Mubarak is legally elected to be a president till september and You cant force him to step down before the time.
If you want to cancel the law governing the Country, you can better live in the forest because there is a law here.
If you do not want mubarak do not vote for him.
but staying in a square insulting Mubraka or his regime is not a solution..
Are you Egyptian, Tarek? If so, please answer these questions How can I involve myself in politics? No opposition is allowed. Do you think any Egyptian elections are free and fair? Do you agree with Emergency Laws that allow the police to arrest YOU when you have committed no crime except to express an opinion? These protests have already made enormous gains, so protests do work...
Opposition is allowed
Protesting did work in the same way that you do not want it to be practiced on you.
You can be inside the system and change it. It is not necessary that you be in the oppostion to change a system. and For your knowledge, There are lots of oppsition parties in Egypt. The Regime allowed it.
Emergency Law is meant for the safety not for freedom capture. You will not be arrested if you expressed your opinion in a polite manner. you will only be arrested if you insult and violate the rights of others like we see in the Square Now. Insulting The mubraka and his family is not a freedom that should be called for.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
As for the Election Question, If The Judges and the court are not fair. It is not the Problem of the regime. The problem is inside the court itself.
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
quote:Originally posted by longusername: Thanks Tareq, you write:
"What If Mubarak has gone now? IMo, Egypt will be a mess and chaos."
In fact, Mubarak has already gone and there is no chaos.
I have just read the article. Very depressing.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Ramses Nemsis, Keep protesting, It is not a solution for any problem. If you want a change in the political regime. You can involve yourself in the regime and try to change it. Protesting is not a soloution or a way to freedom as you claim.
Mubarak is legally elected to be a president till september and You cant force him to step down before the time.
If you want to cancel the law governing the Country, you can better live in the forest because there is a law here.
If you do not want mubarak do not vote for him.
but staying in a square insulting Mubraka or his regime is not a solution..
I respect people's point of views but not idiocy. You are either completely incompetent or live on a different planet.
-You do not change a corrupt regime by being part of it. (if that's what you meant by "involve yourself in the regime".
-Mubarak was never legally elected. Every single election was fraudulent.
-We do not need to "cancel the law governing the country" Mubarak did that for thirty years. Emergency Law means we do live in a jungle.
-It doesn't matter whether we vote for Mubarak or not, he always wins with 99.99999% margin!
-Staying in a square insulting Mubarak and his regime is fun, whether it helps to remove him or not is yet to be seen.
Mubarak is a criminal and has always been. I don't give a **** if he fought in 1973, he is a criminal and has to be held accountable for his crimes. Stepping down is not enough, he has to be arrested and prosecuted for his crimes and for all the crimes that were committed by his regime through the pas 30 years.
All this theatrical performance by his lap dogs, Ahmed Shafik and Omar Suliman can do is hypnotize those who are already brain dead but it will not work on free thinking individual. Actually almost everything they say is an insult to our intelligence.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: You will not be arrested if you expressed your opinion in a polite manner. you will only be arrested if you insult and violate the rights of others like we see in the Square Now. Insulting The mubraka and his family is not a freedom that should be called for. [/QB]
Can you please let us know which written law in Egypt says that? Because if innocent Egyptians could only remind police officers of this law in a nice and polite manner, maybe the reasonable police officers would stop torturing and beating them.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
-You are not A Judge to state that The Election was fabricated. This should be the court Job.
-You Say Mubarak is criminal and The Regime allowed you to say it. and This is not a freedom that We are calling for. If you want to change Mubarak and The regime, There are millions of ways you can do it but It should be a peaceful "non violating" way.
Whether Mubarak is criminal or not, He is the president of Egypt. Believe it or not.
You can't pull it off in the street because We live in a civilised world not a street world.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
A little girl called Nina explains the situation in Egypt.
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: You will not be arrested if you expressed your opinion in a polite manner. you will only be arrested if you insult and violate the rights of others like we see in the Square Now. Insulting The mubraka and his family is not a freedom that should be called for.
Can you please let us know which written law in Egypt says that? Because if innocent Egyptians could only remind police officers of this law in a nice and polite manner, maybe the reasonable police officers would stop torturing and beating them. [/QB]
It is not written any where but as long as you are peaceful and you live in peace and you change stuff peacefull and gently It is not logical to be captured or beaten in any way.
and Yes you can find some abuses/violation because of this law. It was temporary law and not meant to stay forever by the way.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: -You are not A Judge to state that The Election was fabricated. This should be the court Job.
-You Say Mubarak is criminal and The Regime allowed you to say it. and This is not a freedom that We are calling for. If you want to change Mubarak and The regime, There are millions of ways you can do it but It should be a peaceful "non violating" way.
Whether Mubarak is criminal or not, He is the president of Egypt. Believe it or not.
You can't pull it off in the street because We live in a civilised world not a street world.
The protests are peaceful, have you been to Tahrir? Go on down and have a look, take the family, you will enjoy it.
Mubarak is a criminal. his job happens to be president, which is a job he gets paid to do and if he does it badly he should be fired. If he commits crimes, he should be punished. The man has been doing his job badly and committing crimes for 30 years, now his time has come...
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Anyone else in Egypt can't access Twitter? I get a blank page, name is there etc but nothing else. Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
If you say mubarak is criminal. It is not a peacful demonstartion.
Who told you Mubarak is criminal? some brainwashed gang that want to drop the regime?
Are you a court to state the Mubarak is criminal??
What a brain washing!
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: If you say mubarak is criminal. It is not a peacful demonstartion.
Who told you Mubarak is criminal? some brainwashed gang that want to drop the regime?
Are you a court to state the Mubarak is criminal??
What a brain washing!
Look, Tareq, go and join your buddies to protest for dictatorship and Mubarak. I'll be looking for you on the news.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
Occupying a public square and saying That This person is criminal is a violation in the safety and security of this country and violation of the court and the system.
We can say The nation want a change instead we want to kill mubarak and execute him without trial.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: If you say mubarak is criminal. It is not a peacful demonstartion.
Who told you Mubarak is criminal? some brainwashed gang that want to drop the regime?
Are you a court to state the Mubarak is criminal??
What a brain washing!
Look, Tareq, go and join your buddies to protest for dictatorship and Mubarak. I'll be looking for you on the news.
Look! I am not pro Mubarak or anti mubarak.
I was not there protesting for mubrak and I was not there protesting against Mubarak.
I am neutral.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
"Who told you Mubarak is criminal? some brainwashed gang that want to drop the regime?"
Is it not criminal to amass a fortune of billions $$? Mubarak was the son of farmers and yet he amassed a fortune of billion of dollars by plundering the Egyptian state. Mubarak, just like Khadaffi and so many Arab despots think they own Egypt and their respective countries. Mubarak's job is to serve Egypt and not steal money from the country, that is treason. Khadaffi also says that after him comes the chaos, this is the height of arrogance if you ask me.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Occupying a public square and saying That This person is criminal is a violation in the safety and security of this country and violation of the court and the system.
We can say The nation want a change instead we want to kill mubarak and execute him without trial.
I don't believe in the death penalty. A trial would be good though.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq:
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: If you say mubarak is criminal. It is not a peacful demonstartion.
Who told you Mubarak is criminal? some brainwashed gang that want to drop the regime?
Are you a court to state the Mubarak is criminal??
What a brain washing!
Look, Tareq, go and join your buddies to protest for dictatorship and Mubarak. I'll be looking for you on the news.
Look! I am not pro Mubarak or anti mubarak.
I was not there protesting for mubrak and I was not there protesting against Mubarak.
I am neutral.
Well once we have a democracy you will have to make a choice and vote for someone, so start thinking what you would like from the government in return for the taxes you pay.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Occupying a public square and saying That This person is criminal is a violation in the safety and security of this country and violation of the court and the system.
We can say The nation want a change instead we want to kill mubarak and execute him without trial.
You are not neutral. And you have never lived in a true democracy either, so you have no idea what you are talking about.
Freedom of speech means that even if the president of Egypt doesn't like what a citizen of his country has to say have to say, it is STILL A RIGHT OF A CITIZEN OF EGYPT TO BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT HE/SHE FEELS. Without fear.
This is not possible in Egypt you were raised in.
The president of Egypt is not a parent. He doesn't automatically get respect -- he has to EARN it with his ACTIONS.
Most of the world no longer respects your president because we watched his actions this past week.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: If you say mubarak is criminal. It is not a peacful demonstartion.
Who told you Mubarak is criminal? some brainwashed gang that want to drop the regime?
Are you a court to state the Mubarak is criminal??
What a brain washing!
Sorry Tareq, my mistake. there are free and fair elections in this country where you can vote for whoever you like among the running candidates of ONE. The police NEVER beat and kill people, what we see on youtube is all false. The police never stop Egyptians in the street for no reason, nor do they arrest them for no reason and omeone else beat and killed Khaled Said to death, did you see the pics at all?
Saying babaMu is a criminal is NOT what I said, but yes he controls those that are criminals and arranges criminal activities. Oh sorry, they are not criminal HERE as it's in the LAW that they can do this but as human rights does not exist.........oh wait, didn't babaMu himself say it DOES? Oh now I am confused!
30 years @ $70 BILLION, thats 2.33 BILLION US Dollars a year, not LE, USD a year. Wonder what Obama's salary is? Thats even more per year than the US give in AID to the military! But he probably lives on bread and fuul like the majority and he's saved hard eh?
I dont have to be a court to say that is criminal when a great number of the population live on less than $730 A YEAR.
2,330,000,000 for the boss, 730 for the people, a year. Look at the figures.
No some brainwashing gang didn't tell me anything, the FACTS are there for anyone to see now, no matter how hard they try to shut people up or explain or cover up.
2,330,000,000 : 730
Lets look properly at the figure of $2 a day, at todays exchange rate that I just looked at thats 11.90LE a day. So a month that is around 362le. MANY people I know earn LESS than that a month in government jobs!!!! AND it's not all for them, they have FAMILIES to feed on that just like babaMu!
Mubarak family per year LE = 13,863,500,000 Normal Egy family per year LE = 4343.50
yeah that's fair, thats not criminal at all, HARAM!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Occupying a public square and saying That This person is criminal is a violation in the safety and security of this country and violation of the court and the system.
We can say The nation want a change instead we want to kill mubarak and execute him without trial.
How many that are in prison under his regime had a trial? How many were killed, without trial?
There are the odd hot head wanting his death possibly although as yet I have not seen or heard ANY, but this started peaceful, it is still peaceful, all they WANT is for him to GO from office. If he said ok I step down and will go live in any of the country properties I own in egypt, usa, uk and others then I think that would be enough. That is what I heard at the beginning and still am hearing, just step down. ONE young boy in the crowds I heard say leave Egypt but why should he? Just step down. Live here, die here, just step down.
You must have missed all the coverage over the last 2 weeks and not seen any youtube taken BY those there, you missed the police shooting an unarmed BOY in Alex, you missed the pics of Khaled Said's broken face, unrecognizable, kicked and beaten to DEATH. Govt cars ploughing into HUMAN BEINGS like they were nothing.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
Folks, a friend of mine sent me this song, I thought I'd share it with you. It brought back some fond memories.
Poor people gonna rise up And get their share Poor people gonna rise up And take what’s theirs
And finally the tables are starting to turn Talkin' bout a revolution
– Tracy Chapman’s Talkin’ Bout A Revolution, 1988
The sleeping Egyptian giant has finally awoken.
The Arab world’s most populous nation – 85 million strong – has been in political hibernation for 30 long years.
The deep slumber is now over. The reign of Hosni Mubarak will end, sooner or later, as a rejuvenated population sheds apathy’s blanket.
“Cairo today is all of Egypt,” said one. “I want my son to have a better life and not suffer as much as I did … I want to feel like I chose my president.”
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq:
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: If you say mubarak is criminal. It is not a peacful demonstartion.
Who told you Mubarak is criminal? some brainwashed gang that want to drop the regime?
Are you a court to state the Mubarak is criminal??
What a brain washing!
Look, Tareq, go and join your buddies to protest for dictatorship and Mubarak. I'll be looking for you on the news.
Look! I am not pro Mubarak or anti mubarak.
I was not there protesting for mubrak and I was not there protesting against Mubarak.
I am neutral.
Did someone pay you to come here and type all this bs you're sellin'? Honestly, you really think he's legally elected? And you say there will be chaos if he leaves? That sounds like the party line that all the others are saying. Do you not think it's chaos now? Who is creating this chaos? Who has the weapons and tear gas? Who closed the banks? Who ordered the police to beat and kill the protestors, some who aren't even 18 yet?
Honestly after that I don't know how anyone can say he doesn't have to step down immediately. Even if it's true that he's a complete moron of a leader and didn't know what was going on....actually forget it. If he did know, he needs to go. If he didn't know, he's too stupid to be a leader. He's got to go. Now.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Off topic, but funny:
'Vote ANC, go to heaven': South African President Jacob Zuma accused of blasphemy after claiming supporters will be rewarded in afterlife
"Mr Zuma, a Zulu and self-professed Christian, told the crowd of supporters they risked going to hell if they failed to back his ANC party at local elections later this year.
Speaking in Zulu, he said: 'When you vote for the ANC, you are also choosing to go to heaven. 'When you don't vote for the ANC you should know that you are choosing that man who carries a fork, who cooks people.
'When you are carrying an ANC membership card, you are blessed. When you get up there, there are different cards used but when you have an ANC card, you will be let through to go to heaven.'
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
BBC1 panorama for any Brits. On now
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Thanks Miffmiss.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq:
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: If you say mubarak is criminal. It is not a peacful demonstartion.
Who told you Mubarak is criminal? some brainwashed gang that want to drop the regime?
Are you a court to state the Mubarak is criminal??
What a brain washing!
Look, Tareq, go and join your buddies to protest for dictatorship and Mubarak. I'll be looking for you on the news.
Look! I am not pro Mubarak or anti mubarak.
I was not there protesting for mubrak and I was not there protesting against Mubarak.
I am neutral.
Well once we have a democracy you will have to make a choice and vote for someone, so start thinking what you would like from the government in return for the taxes you pay.
So you did not tell me. Who will you elect after you drop Mubarak? will you make the election in the square?
and what if you did not like the next president? will you go protest again to drop the next one?
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
"and what if you did not like the next president? will you go protest again to drop the next one?"
you can always punish him by not voting for him in the next elections..
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Occupying a public square and saying That This person is criminal is a violation in the safety and security of this country and violation of the court and the system.
We can say The nation want a change instead we want to kill mubarak and execute him without trial.
You are not neutral. And you have never lived in a true democracy either, so you have no idea what you are talking about.
Freedom of speech means that even if the president of Egypt doesn't like what a citizen of his country has to say have to say, it is STILL A RIGHT OF A CITIZEN OF EGYPT TO BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT HE/SHE FEELS. Without fear.
This is not possible in Egypt you were raised in.
The president of Egypt is not a parent. He doesn't automatically get respect -- he has to EARN it with his ACTIONS.
Most of the world no longer respects your president because we watched his actions this past week.
I do not think any nation in the world got a 100 % democracy. and no nation will be able to get 100 % democracy.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
@Ayisha @ $70 BILLION, It is a matter to be filed to the court to Judge.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Actually, I'll make that because, come to think of it, that is pretty sad.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: How many that are in prison under his regime had a trial? How many were killed, without trial?
This is part of the corruption of the regime that none agree on.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Tareq is right. It is vital that the rule of law should prevail. Mubarak is entitled to a fair trial.
Likewise, those responsible prima facie for allowing the lives of protesters to be endangered should be given a fair trial, as should those who appear to have committed murder, or to have caused violence needlessly to members of the public.
Of course, for there to be a guarantee of a fair trial, first the state of emergency would have to be revoked. It is hard to imagine what kind of constitution would provide for untrammelled emergency law for thirty years, or what conditions could possibly merit it.
But if we are advocating the rule of law, we should be consistent.
And if we consider the state destroyed beyond repair then we have to being again with a new constitution determined by a new constitutional convention.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
How about we use the emergency law against Mubarak?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Tareq, are your journalists allowed to question your Ministers this way? The guy in the red tie was one of ours. Note that the accusations are about flowers, dinner and chocolates, not a mere triffling matter of a few billion pounds.
Of course they aren't allowed to ask impertinent questions like that. They would mysteriously disappear as soon as they stepped foot outside the studio. The people are answerable to the politians, not vice versa.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: I do not think any nation in the world got a 100 % democracy. and no nation will be able to get 100 % democracy.
In the words of Winston Churchill: "No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time".
By this quote Churchill meant that democracy is not perfect, and no government created so far is. Every form of government no matter how successful it is has flaws.
Democracy cannot function without the people, especially if the people are ignorant, ill- informed, or only care about their own interests. Building an effective democracy takes time, the people must be educated to make effective and well-informed decisions. This is one reason why democracy is failing in Russia, and one of democracy’s flaws. Democracy is also a very slow process; the checks and balances that help make democracy effective also makes it inefficient. Before a law is passed it spends a great deal of time in the hands of officials in Congress, and even in the hands of the president.
It is often said that democracy is just a tyranny of the majority. This can seem true at times, because the thoughts and ideas of a minority are not always fairly represented. In fact in a few ways a dictatorship has advantages over democracy it’s more efficient. A dictatorship is a very efficient form of government, and so is a oligarchy, but in those governments it can be very difficult for the views and opinions of the people to be heard. For these reasons democracy is the most just system of government thus far. Democracy works because even though the leaders of a nation are not always the wisest people, they know that they can loose their power just as quickly as they gained it if the people do not approve of what they’re doing. A Democratic society is not in any way utopian and no one pretends it is, but no society yet has been perfect, and that is thought behind Winston Churchill’s quote. Basically Churchill means that while democracy isn’t perfect, nothing is and so far it’s the best form of government we have. http://www.essays.cc/free_essays/d2/aie299.shtml Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: by Ranni Amiri
Poor people gonna rise up And get their share Poor people gonna rise up And take what’s theirs
And finally the tables are starting to turn Talkin' bout a revolution
– Tracy Chapman’s Talkin’ Bout A Revolution, 1988
The sleeping Egyptian giant has finally awoken.
The Arab world’s most populous nation – 85 million strong – has been in political hibernation for 30 long years.
The deep slumber is now over. The reign of Hosni Mubarak will end, sooner or later, as a rejuvenated population sheds apathy’s blanket.
“Cairo today is all of Egypt,” said one. “I want my son to have a better life and not suffer as much as I did … I want to feel like I chose my president.”
I have been playing this song for days now. I also think her sub city song is appropriate with the lines
Give mr president my honest regards, for disregarding me
Along with many other lines from that song
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
We should also not confuse constitutional democracy with direct democracy. Direct democracy is mobocracy.
Democracy does not mean the tyranny of the majority. It means protection of the rights and freedoms of all individuals, and particularly the minorities who are given ample chance to not only criticize the government of the majority but even to topple it in another election.
Constitutional democracies may take various forms: they may be republic, as the United States or France, or monarchy, as the United Kingdom or Spain. They may have a presidential system, like in United States, a parliamentary system, like in Canada and Commonwealth countries, or a mixed form as in France.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Vwww, Have you heard about Mubarakracy before?
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Mubarakracy or Mubaractorship?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Mona ElShazly just interviewed Wael Ghonin on tv. He was crying as he was telling about his 12 days blindfolded with the amn Dowla. It was in Arabic so I'm relying on hubby translating a lot of hi ooooohhhs and ahhhhs but at the end, wasnt supposed to be the end though, they showed the pics of all the dead so far. He lost it and broke down and had to leave. There is not a dry eye in our house and so many others in Egypt now. Hubby has been glued to tv for days and even he through his sobs and tears said 'I didn't know! young handsome men, all dead!'
There was then a heart surgeon who's own children were there, they called him to bring medicines, bandages etc. All were thrown into the Nile by police. He stitched up a young boys head, the boy said he had to go back to help protect people, the next time he saw him he had a bullet in his head. He was 13 years old.
Now I can understand anyone wanting babaMu hung.
God help Egypt and the brave who are giving their lives for the freedom of others. Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Mubarakracy or Mubaractorship?
lol
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Mubarak is currently ranked 20th on Parade Magazine's World's Worst Dictators list
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Mona ElShazly just interviewed Wael Ghonin on tv. He was crying as he was telling about his 12 days blindfolded with the amn Dowla. It was in Arabic so I'm relying on hubby translating a lot of hi ooooohhhs and ahhhhs but at the end, wasnt supposed to be the end though, they showed the pics of all the dead so far. He lost it and broke down and had to leave. There is not a dry eye in our house and so many others in Egypt now. Hubby has been glued to tv for days and even he through his sobs and tears said 'I didn't know! young handsome men, all dead!'
There was then a heart surgeon who's own children were there, they called him to bring medicines, bandages etc. All were thrown into the Nile by police. He stitched up a young boys head, the boy said he had to go back to help protect people, the next time he saw him he had a bullet in his head. He was 13 years old.
Now I can understand anyone wanting babaMu hung.
God help Egypt and the brave who are giving their lives for the freedom of others.
Truely shocking Ayisha Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Hard to consider him a legally elected president when all the elections are rigged and false.
...and without any other candidate but him. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Bear in mind this guy has been locked up and blindfolded since the night of Thursday 27 Jan and was released only today, he had no idea what had been happening all this time and how many had died. Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
I have a question wael ghoneim did not eat since 27 jan?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: How many that are in prison under his regime had a trial? How many were killed, without trial?
This is part of the corruption of the regime that none agree on.
Thank you, you agree the Mubarak regime is corrupt, yet you would rather defend him protect him, like an abused child having the abuser taken away?
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
You did not get the point Mubarak regime or any regime in the world is subjected to corruption. There is no 100% sound system. Even those nations who claim to have a complete democracy, In fact, they have lots of hiden corruptions.
The point is that I do not like the regime. It is ok. find alternative or repair it. If the people elect another person, He will be another Mubarak. and people will protest again and again. and we will spend our age in the street.
People should know this fact.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Ayisha, is this state tv?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: I have a question wael ghoneim did not eat since 27 jan?
what? I don't know Tareq, watch the interview and he may say what he ate or not. I don't get your point of that question, sorry.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Ayisha, is this state tv?
It was Dream channel on satellite, private owned, not state. The other one is Mehwar, hubby is going between those 2 and BBCW Arabic. They have both been saying it as it is, there have been some good interviews and talks on them both.
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: @Ayisha @ $70 BILLION, It is a matter to be filed to the court to Judge.
How can this be done when the courts are controlled by Mubarak? The Egyptian judicial system is not independent.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Monday, February 07, 2011 Arab revolts bad news for al Qaeda
IF the popular revolts spread across the Middle East, they could strike a catastrophic blow to violent ideology of al Qaeda that have long preached that peaceful protest is useless in the face of autocracy
IF the popular revolts that have rocked Tunisia and Egypt gain momentum and spread across the Middle East, they could strike a catastrophic blow to al Qaeda’s violent ideology, experts say. While some in the West fear protests in the Arab world could see authoritarian secular regimes overthrown by equally hardline religious parties, other observers say the movements pose a far greater threat to militants.
Groups like Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda have long preached that peaceful protest is useless in the face of autocracy. They condemn electoral politics and urge Muslims to use violence to combat injustice and oppression. But if street protests in Tunisia can force an dictator into exile and in Cairo can force a regime to promise free elections and sit down with its opponents, why should angry young Arabs turn to bombs and guns? “Ultimately, it works against the idea of the resort to violence,” Maha Azzam, who studies the Middle East for the London-based think tank Chatham House, told AFP in Cairo’s Tahrir Square, which is occupied by protesters.
Two weeks ago, thousands of demonstrators occupied the square, the heart of the capital in the largest nation in the Arab world, demanding that autocratic leader President Hosni Mubarak step down and allow free elections. The revolt has not been without violence, a police crackdown and clashes between pro and anti-regime groups have left an estimated 300 people dead, but the focus of the movement has been a peaceful demand for change.
Some in the West and in neighbouring Israel have expressed concern that a free vote in Egypt could lead to victory for the opposition Muslim Brotherhood, and that this would be a boost for violent factions in the region. But observers in Cairo say the Brotherhood’s power is exaggerated and that in any case it is not a violent movement like al Qaeda. It could play a role in multi-party politics, representing a politico-religious constituency.
“All people and all groups in Egypt, including the Muslim Brotherhood, demand a democratic transition to power. They all condemn political violence,” said Azzam. “If it succeeds and if the transition is peaceful and successful, if it leads to a political system that includes all groups, it will be detrimental for the radical groups,” she added. As she spoke, the protesters gathered in the square - within a cordon of troops - prepared to mark Sunday with a Christian mass for the members of the Coptic minority in their ranks.
Al Qaeda, whose intellectual head and number two figure is the Egyptian doctor Ayman al Zawahiri, has long condemned any participation in elections, indeed any participation in secular political life. The Muslim Brotherhood, in contrast, has battled for representation. In Egypt, where it is banned, the group fields candidates under the “independent” banner and it is now pushing to be involved in political reform.
“The militant groups are at a crossroads,” said Dominique Thomas, an expert in radical Islam at the School of Higher Studies in Social Sciences in Paris. “If these events snowball, and raise democratic expectations in the region and people are able to overthrow dictatorships with pressure from the street, that would be a stunning blow to their theories,” he said.
“If it’s the will of the people that topples regimes, al Qaeda and other militant groups will find it hard to bounce back and modify their narrative,” he said. “And, amid all this excitement, they’ve been strangely quiet. They’re probably confounded. Bin Laden or Zawahiri will have to speak out soon, or their whole discourse will lose credibility,” he said.
Another leading expert, Jean-Pierre Filiu of New York’s Colombia University and Paris’ Sciences-Po, agreed. “al Qaeda was caught completely unawares by the popular uprisings in the Arab world,” he told AFP. “They’ve gone completely silent on the subject, incapable of commenting on the news, so far is it beyond their understanding,” he said.
“The protesters are putting themselves in undeniable physical danger not to demand an Islamic state or a Caliphate, but to demand democracy, elections and transparency, all alien concepts to al Qaeda,” Filiu said Signs are emerging the extremists have themselves recognised the threat. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011%5C02%5C07%5Cstory_7-2-2011_pg4_10 Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Return of Islamic leader worries (Islamophobe?) Tunisian women
Famous last words for a free society, or even one less beset by Sharia than it might be: "Oh, that can't happen here."
Reports on the role of Islamic movements in the Tunisian and Egyptian uprisings have placed considerable faith in the "secular" elements of those societies to resist Sharia's regressive influence on human rights. But one cannot passively invoke as protection the institutions that Sharia's proponents will attack and destroy once they are strong enough to go on the offensive, especially not when recalling how flimsy the veneer of a modern, secular society turned out to be in Iraq.
I don't get why the translation keeps stating "I wasn't abused". Is that the correct translation? He was blindfolded for days....is that not abuse? I wonder if they threatened him that if he tells the truth his family will be in danger...
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I am so filling up again with pride for these guys, words just not enough!
@vw Khalas! There is a revolution with millions of people SHARING and CARING about each other, all religons and one goal TOGETHER.
go spread your islamophobic hate somewhere else.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
I don't think I have posted anything Islamophobic on this thread, I simply asked Monkey if she considers those Tunisian women Islamophobic.
They seem very concerned about Political Islam, does that qualify as Islamophobia? If this is "Islamophobia" show me exactly why it is irrational (i.e. not based on facts or observable behavior, or a study of history), an "irrational" dislike or even hatred of Islam.
If you cannot show that, then perhaps the word should not be invoked. But if you do invoke it, be prepared to have copious quotations from Quran and hadith and sira so that people may judge for themselves, without the "guidance" of apologists for Islam, both Muslim and non-Muslim.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I think I found the transcription (in English).
I don't get why the translation keeps stating "I wasn't abused". Is that the correct translation? He was blindfolded for days....is that not abuse? I wonder if they threatened him that if he tells the truth his family will be in danger...
I think he meant they didn't hit him. All the journalists who gave interviews said they could hear people being beaten in the background so I guess you could say he was one of the lucky ones, stupid as that sounds.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: I don't think I have posted anything Islamophobic on this thread, I simply asked Monkey if she considers those Tunisian women Islamophobic.
They seem very concerned about Political Islam, does that qualify as Islamophobia? If this is "Islamophobia" show me exactly why it is irrational (i.e. not based on facts or observable behavior, or a study of history), an "irrational" dislike or even hatred of Islam.
If you cannot show that, then perhaps the word should not be invoked. But if you do invoke it, be prepared to have copious quotations from Quran and hadith and sira so that people may judge for themselves, without the "guidance" of apologists for Islam, both Muslim and non-Muslim.
You just go on and on about Islam and the Quran, Al Qaida, blah blah. It just gets so boring and repetitive.
This is an inspirational thread - history in the making, maybe. I wish it didn't have to be marred by floods of spam.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey:
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: I don't think I have posted anything Islamophobic on this thread, I simply asked Monkey if she considers those Tunisian women Islamophobic.
They seem very concerned about Political Islam, does that qualify as Islamophobia? If this is "Islamophobia" show me exactly why it is irrational (i.e. not based on facts or observable behavior, or a study of history), an "irrational" dislike or even hatred of Islam.
If you cannot show that, then perhaps the word should not be invoked. But if you do invoke it, be prepared to have copious quotations from Quran and hadith and sira so that people may judge for themselves, without the "guidance" of apologists for Islam, both Muslim and non-Muslim.
You just go on and on about Islam and the Quran, Al Qaida, blah blah. It just gets so boring and repetitive.
This is an inspirational thread - history in the making, maybe. I wish it didn't have to be marred by floods of spam.
Totally agree.
@ vw, I skim your posts, I don't read them, they are all the same crap you always spew out. This is nothing to do with religion but I will ask you one thing. As a convert to Christianity, do you believe that God is on the side of the JUST? I do as a Muslim and these guys are fighting for freedom, hand in hand with Christians, Athiests and anyone else wanting freedom and justice in Egypt.
We all know your copy paste views on Islam, but this thread is not what that is for, there is a religion section with tumbleweed in it at present, go fill ya boots in there. Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Nah that would be boring for him cos then he would have no one to wind up
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I heard that he's a she . Hope I got that right or it won't be the first time someone's undergone a sex change today Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I always thought it was female too.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Metinoot told me. Where is Tootie Fruitie? Awful quiet, it is.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
"@ vw, I skim your posts, I don't read them, they are all the same crap you always spew out."
You don't read them but comment on them that's the problem, it just shows what a fool you are, your bigotry truly shines through.
"We all know your copy paste views on Islam, but this thread is not what that is for"
If you had bothered to read the article that I posted i.e "Arab revolts bad news for al Qaeda" you would have seen nothing Islamophobic in there, it only criticizes al Qaeda, it even praises the Muslim protesters, anyway I won't waste my time arguing this with a BIGOT.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Metinoot told me. Where is Tootie Fruitie? Awful quiet, it is.
I have been wondering that too. I know she's a nutcase, but I hope nothing bad has happened. Her daughter is here, that has to be hard to cope with right now. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I think it's the snow. She had a bad connection before. I know I wind her up on occasion, but agreed. Can't be pleasant.
Just reading Wael Ghonim's tweets.
"HosniMobarak: Habib just sent me a bbm. He says I should prepare a farewell speech for my citizens. Where are you guys going?"
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: "@ vw, I skim your posts, I don't read them, they are all the same crap you always spew out."
You don't read them but comment on them that's the problem, it just show what a fool you are, your bigotry truly shines through.
"We all know your copy paste views on Islam, but this thread is not what that is for"
If you had bothered to read the article that I posted i.e "Arab revolts bad news for al Qaeda" you would have seen nothing Islamophobic in there, it only criticizes al Qaeda, it even praises the Muslim protesters, anyway I won't waste my time arguing this with a BIGOT.
I apologize. I have now read the Arab revolts post through whereas I previously skimmed and seeing Al Qaeda, bin laden, muslim brotherhood was enough for me, but I apologize for jumping to the conclusion it was Islamophobic.
We have what USA thinks, what UK thinks, what Aunt sallys cat thinks so yes what Bin Laden may or may not think about it is also valid and acceptable. I apologize again.
Btw, you say 'praises the Muslim protestors' when there are Muslim and Christian LEADERS in there HAND IN HAND and protecting each other while each prays, I would say it praises 'the protestors' not just the Muslim ones.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
You post it but refuse to comment. Kinda cowardly, eh.
Who cares what the special envoy thinks. It it's not the policy of USA.
And in any case, it is more than apparent that the pro-democracy protestors are relentless until Mubarak steps down.
U.S. Special Envoy Embarrasses Administration
Frank Wisner, Barack Obama's special envoy to Egypt, "veered wildly off-message" when he spoke to the Munich security conference, notes the Guardian. Wisner, who had just returned from Cairo, advocated for Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to stay in office and seemed to be arguing that the world owed him that much. "President Mubarak's continued leadership is critical," he said. "It's his opportunity to write his own legacy. He has given 60 years of his life to the service of his country and this is an ideal moment for him to show the way forward." Western officials were confused by Wisner's words, particularly since they came soon after Secretary of State Hillary Clinton endorsed an orderly and slow transition led by Vice President Omar Suleiman. The "whole episode was a reminder of the inherent problems in hiring special envoys from the ranks of retired diplomats who no longer feel constrained by State Department discipline," writes the Guardian's Julian Borger.
Obama scrambles to limit damage after Frank Wisner makes robust call for Mubarak to remain in place as leader.
Frank Wisner, President Barack Obama's envoy to Cairo who infuriated the White House this weekend by urging Hosni Mubarak to remain President of Egypt, works for a New York and Washington law firm which works for the dictator's own Egyptian government.
Mr Wisner's astonishing remarks – "President Mubarak's continued leadership is critical: it's his opportunity to write his own legacy" – shocked the democratic opposition in Egypt and called into question Mr Obama's judgement, as well as that of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
The US State Department and Mr Wisner himself have now both claimed that his remarks were made in a "personal capacity". But there is nothing "personal" about Mr Wisner's connections with the litigation firm Patton Boggs, which openly boasts that it advises "the Egyptian military, the Egyptian Economic Development Agency, and has handled arbitrations and litigation on the [Mubarak] government's behalf in Europe and the US".
Tony Blair: Mubarak is 'immensely courageous and a force for good'
Former PM praises Egyptian president over role in peace negotiations and warns against a rush to elections that could bring Muslim Brotherhood to power
If you feel like watching, personally its too emotional for me. The man is a google exec who was one of the organizers for fb online.
The guy has a wife and two children so its especially difficult to watch.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
Wouldn't it be nice if governments could control their operatives, diplomates and people?
Thats actually what the Egyptian people are fighting against and what they have had for 30 years Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
So he is "the quiet American" in this story? Just looked up who he is. Grew up in United Arab Emirates... Graduated from American University in Cairo, my god the tuition fees in that place are such that I cannot imagine who can even afford them? Must be filthy rich. Married to an American, too.
On top of it I came across a photo in the web, of protesters in the square playing chess, it is here
Because the Russian revolutionists in 1917 also prided themselves on having the best educations and coming from best, intelligent families, if anyone here remembers history. Chess was of course very "in". They also were totally delusionary, as we now already know. Even wearing leather coats on that photo, in style of true "bolsheviks". And the woman in the background? Black like death.
I'm really getting so depressed. Need to go clean house.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Just looked up who he is. Grew up in United Arab Emirates... Graduated from American University in Cairo, my god the tuition fees in that place are such that I cannot imagine who can even afford them? Married to an American, too.
What do AUC'S tuition fees or the fact that someone grew up in the UAE have to do with anything here?
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Because the Russian revolutionists in 1917 also prided themselves on having the best educations and coming from best, intelligent families, if anyone here remembers history. Chess was of course very "in".
So if someone plays chess that means they "pride themselves in having the best educations and coming from the best families"? Interesting interpretation.
I suggest next time you get out of your village and make a trip to Cairo you pop into Hurreya Cafe. You'll find many old guys sitting there and playing chess. I assume they are all just showing off.
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Even wearing leather coats on that photo, in style of true "bolsheviks".
And the woman in the background? Black like death.
Your comments are starting to amuse me. There is one guy wearing a leather jacket, so that means they are all wannabe bolsheviks … yeah right.
What the color of the lady's clothing has to do with anything, I don't understand. But it seems quite obvious that in lack of proper arguments, you are clutching at straws, over-analyzing even the clothes people wear in a desperate attempt to find something to pick on.
Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I heard that he's a she . Hope I got that right or it won't be the first time someone's undergone a sex change today
Really?? I figured only men were so ignorant and stubborn
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Statement from Cairo University- faculty of law Issued from the discussion forum held on 7/2/2011 around legal and constitutional solutions to meet the needs of the Peoples revolution
On Monday the 7th of February 2011 the professors of the faculty of law at Cairo university met and after many fruitful discussions and thorough analysis of the parameters of constitutional thought and what is best for our country in order for it to correspond with the great leap & the revolution of the Youth of the Nation which has both been welcomed and backed by many communities within the nation , presented to the nation from a pure conscience and in reaction to the new developments that have affected the entire nation's sentiments . Presented here to the great Egyptian nation are the results which the forum has reached in regards to what must be done for the good of the nation at this historical juncture in our beloved country The forum has reached the following conclusions:
Firstly : To completely support and back The revolution of the 25th of January which was sparked by the pure and uncorrupted Youth of Egypt in which all the diverse communities of Egypt joined to demand freedom , democracy and the sovereignty of the law , the achievement of social justice and calling to account the corrupt and those who have hindered the fate of this nation and honoring the blood of the martyrs which was spilt in the cause of the nations freedom and upholding the dignity of the citizen.
Secondly – Withdrawing all legitimacy from the current regime
Thirdly – Calling upon the President of the Republic to comply with the will of the nation as expressed by the public
Fourth - The Necessity of the instant dissolution of both Parliament and the Shura Council due to the impossibility of their meeting as a result of final sentences issued from the High Constitutional court which nullify the results of the elections in many constituencies
Fifth- A call for the creation of a founding committee devoted to the creation of a new constitution that is in accordance with the current phase, with the condition that all political ideologies are represented in this committee as well as civil society organizations and all Egyptian communities
Sixth – The delegation of all presidential powers to the vice president, as permitted by Articles 82 and 139 of the constitution in accordance with their correct interpretation
Seventh – The expansion of the current structure of the government in order for it to be an interim government dedicated to the nations recovery
Eighth- The issuance of decrees from the republic which would create laws that launch the right to create political parties and allowing citizens the rights of election and nomination for public office
Ninth- The swift restructuring of the state authorities in accordance with the new constitution
Tenth – The immediate termination of the enforcement of the Emergency law
Signed on behalf of the attendees Dr Ahmed Awad Belal Dean of the Faculty of Law
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: I do not think any nation in the world got a 100 % democracy. and no nation will be able to get 100 % democracy. [/QB]
I didn't realize iyou think it is a choice between 100% dictatorship and 100% democracy.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: So he is "the quiet American" in this story? Just looked up who he is. Grew up in United Arab Emirates... Graduated from American University in Cairo, my god the tuition fees in that place are such that I cannot imagine who can even afford them? Must be filthy rich. Married to an American, too.
On top of it I came across a photo in the web, of protesters in the square playing chess, it is here
Because the Russian revolutionists in 1917 also prided themselves on having the best educations and coming from best, intelligent families, if anyone here remembers history. Chess was of course very "in". They also were totally delusionary, as we now already know. Even wearing leather coats on that photo, in style of true "bolsheviks". And the woman in the background? Black like death.
I'm really getting so depressed. Need to go clean house.
The only point here you made is that the guy comes from an afluent family with money and connections. Yes, that's right. If he didn't, do you REALLY THINK he would still be alive? Yup, that's the good old world you support... if you're rich and have connections, maybe...maybe the police will think twice before beating you to death.
And, to add - this young man ALREADY has a great job, plenty of money, fantastic education, wife and young children... things most Egyptian men his age can only dream of having. He had nothing to gain but everything to lose by participating in these protests. He was out there fighting for the rights of his fellow countrymen, and then he gets slammed by some foreigner living in Egypt for having too much money!?
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Wael Ghonim interview part 1
reporters go to sakara asking locals their opinions... amongst complaints that the tourism industry is at a standstill and "this needs to stop", that mubarak is great, etc, it ends with a mob turning nasty on the reporter.
gee, and they wonder why the tourists aren't flocking back. extremely sad.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Let's see if I've got this straight. According to Nevermind, because some of the protesters wore leather and played chess, Egyptians should live under the rule of fear subject to arbitrary arrest, torture and even death? Is that the deductive inference we're being invited to draw? There appear to be some missing steps.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Nevermind, is your home country run by a democracy?
Posted by think (Member # 18571) on :
Here is the full Wael Ghonim interview with subtitles. 3 parts, autoplay. Click CC below video if you can't see subtitles
20 lawyers have apparently lodged a petition with the court against HM over the $70 billion, it was reported on AJE.
Brave.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I was reading on London to Cairo that a million people had left Egypt since this started??!! Holy smokes that's a lot.
Does anyone have any information on this? All ex-pats or vacationers or .... ? And how could they get those figures, just from the airlines?
Also, any idea how many people have stayed? I guess I'm thinking ex-pats here since I'm not sure there's a way to count vacationers, though why anyone would want to be here on vacation right now is beyond me!
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Statement from Cairo University- faculty of law Issued from the discussion forum held on 7/2/2011 around legal and constitutional solutions to meet the needs of the Peoples revolution
Can't help but find them a tad hypocritical I'm afraid. They should sort out their own house first. Where were they when the students' body elections were meddled with by the University security? Certain candidates being prevented from nomination and possibly other electoral irregularities. Surely it was within their powers to fix it. I do applaud their stance of course, don't get me wrong. What I'm saying is that they've lost a lot of credibility by not intervening when they were able to. If they really cared about democracy and the "youth", they wouldn't have put up with what was happening in universities.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: 20 lawyers have apparently lodged a petition with the court against HM over the $70 billion, it was reported on AJE.
Brave.
It's an awesome development.
Just think, less than a month ago, an Egyptian who challenged Mubarak was sent to the dungeon to be sorted out. This is a regime that tortured people of every persuasion including a prominent secular professor (Saad Eddin Ibrahim) simply because he spoke of human rights. Hosni Mubarak's thugs tortured him so severely he's barely able to walks now.
It's beautiful to witness something truly priceless – free minds.
A murder case should also be filed against Mubarak.
A torture case should also be brought forth against Omar Suleiman. Mamdouh Habib (an Egyptian Australian) was tortured, he was innocent, proven innocent, and the torturer was non other than Omar Suleiman.
Suleiman the torturer
“In Egypt, as Habib recounts in his memoir, My Story: The Tale of a Terrorist Who Wasn’t, he was repeatedly subjected to electric shocks, immersed in water up to his nostrils and beaten. His fingers were broken and he was hung from metal hooks. At one point, his interrogator slapped him so hard that his blindfold was dislodged, revealing the identity of his tormentor: Suleiman.
Frustrated that Habib was not providing useful information or confessing to involvement in terrorism, Suleiman ordered a guard to murder a shackled prisoner in front of Habib, which he did with a vicious karate kick.”
Source:http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/201127114827382865.html
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I was reading on London to Cairo that a million people had left Egypt since this started??!! Holy smokes that's a lot.
Does anyone have any information on this? All ex-pats or vacationers or .... ? And how could they get those figures, just from the airlines?
Also, any idea how many people have stayed? I guess I'm thinking ex-pats here since I'm not sure there's a way to count vacationers, though why anyone would want to be here on vacation right now is beyond me!
I read that many Egyptian business men with their families had left the country,the rest i guess must have been expats or vacationers.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
The moment Mubarak's men were lynched : Shocking new video shows brutal mob justice in action as protesters vow to reignite revolution
Footage obtained by Al Jazeera reveals the brutality of clashes between the opposing sides as Egypt was swept up in revolutionary fervour. One clip shows a pro-Mubarak van driver being surrounded and dragged from his vehicle by a mob of anti-government demonstrators while another scene shows supporters of the regime driving directly towards protesters. ...read
Posted by tootse (Member # 18552) on :
sorry Shanta, but this donkey belongs in this thread, especially with a few sods around here who support him. Don't get me wrong sod stands for Save Our Donkey Posted by miffmiss (Member # 14978) on :
Does anyone know the plans for Friday. I have just spoken to mr t and he is going back on Friday for the big day he said
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Please put animal discussions in this thread:
sorry Shanta, but this donkey belongs in this thread, especially with a few sods around here who support him. Don't get me wrong sod stands for Save Our Donkey
Oh, I get it now - very good Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Government buildings under siege by thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators. They include Parliament and Prime Minister office.
AJ Live
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Egypt’s State Media Turns on MubarakTop State-Run Newspaper Lashes Govt, Praises Protesters by Jason Ditz, February 07, 2011
After 30 years of championing President Hosni Mubarak on all issues, one of the strongest voices in Egypt’s state-run media, the al-Ahram newspaper, has led its Monday issue with a front page editorial reversing that stance.
The editorial, written by editor-in-chief Osama Saraya, cheers the “nobility” of the growing protest movement against Mubarak and lambastes the dictator for refusing to make serious changes.
The article didn’t explicitly call for President Mubarak to resign but the demands for reform spark a major shift from the paper, Egypt’s largest and most respected, and Saraya’s history as an advocate who can spin anything Mubarak does as heroic appears over.
ES really has become just a site for collating what is available to read online!!!
I miss conversations!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
At least there's less spam - it gets buried quite quickly
EDIT and Shanta must be zapping it - haven't seen much these days at all
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: 20 lawyers have apparently lodged a petition with the court against HM over the $70 billion, it was reported on AJE.
Brave.
It's an awesome development.
Just think, less than a month ago, an Egyptian who challenged Mubarak was sent to the dungeon to be sorted out. This is a regime that tortured people of every persuasion including a prominent secular professor (Saad Eddin Ibrahim) simply because he spoke of human rights. Hosni Mubarak's thugs tortured him so severely he's barely able to walks now.
It's beautiful to witness something truly priceless – free minds.
A murder case should also be filed against Mubarak.
A torture case should also be brought forth against Omar Suleiman. Mamdouh Habib (an Egyptian Australian) was tortured, he was innocent, proven innocent, and the torturer was non other than Omar Suleiman.
Suleiman the torturer
“In Egypt, as Habib recounts in his memoir, My Story: The Tale of a Terrorist Who Wasn’t, he was repeatedly subjected to electric shocks, immersed in water up to his nostrils and beaten. His fingers were broken and he was hung from metal hooks. At one point, his interrogator slapped him so hard that his blindfold was dislodged, revealing the identity of his tormentor: Suleiman.
Frustrated that Habib was not providing useful information or confessing to involvement in terrorism, Suleiman ordered a guard to murder a shackled prisoner in front of Habib, which he did with a vicious karate kick.”
I see america was sending people to sulaiman to torture.
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Nevermind, is your home country run by a democracy?
So much so that each and one of us dares to have a personal opinion. No running in packs, for us! ;D
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Fair enough.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Nevermind, is your home country run by a democracy?
So much so that each and one of us dares to have a personal opinion. No running in packs, for us! ;D
Sorry, are you trying to suggest to the posters that disagree with you that we are somehow a "pack" ganging up on you?
So, when you post about how egyptians think this or that, that's your personal opinion. When others post and disagree with you, we're ganging up on you.
Do I have that right? (edit, I'm not being sarcastic, I'm confused by your posts)
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: At least there's less spam - it gets buried quite quickly
EDIT and Shanta must be zapping it - haven't seen much these days at all
Spammers are probably too busy just either watching the actual news or actually reading websites!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
4 Nevermind: I merely asked the question to put what you were saying in some sort of context, logically. Tareq I can understand - he has no concept of democracy because he's never known it. If you have, then I can't comprehend why you don't believe the Egyptians deserve the same fundamental rights as you've enjoyed.
I'm not ganging up on you or attacking you or what not. I was just trying to see whether I understand you. Now I know I don't.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I think a lot of the spammers are from China. For a period of time, if you were in China, the word 'Egypt' was blocked from some searches. Maybe it's related. I have only zapped about 7 or 8 bits of spam!
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Please put animal discussions in this thread:
sorry Shanta, but this donkey belongs in this thread, especially with a few sods around here who support him. Don't get me wrong sod stands for Save Our Donkey
Oh haha - sorry had a sense of humour bypass this afternoon.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Re: the spammers. Wow. At least there's proof that one good thing has come out of all this.
Well, kind of. Is it a fundamental human right to be allowed to spam?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I was reading on London to Cairo that a million people had left Egypt since this started??!! Holy smokes that's a lot.
Does anyone have any information on this? All ex-pats or vacationers or .... ? And how could they get those figures, just from the airlines?
Also, any idea how many people have stayed? I guess I'm thinking ex-pats here since I'm not sure there's a way to count vacationers, though why anyone would want to be here on vacation right now is beyond me!
I heard that 160,000 people were leaving daily, this is from Egyptian State TV. They have airport entry/exit records, but who knows if this figure is accurate. Of this #, 100K are claimed to be tourists. Does the math add up? How many passengers are on an average airplane … maybe 300?
300/160000 = That's 533 flights per day. I thought flights were limited. Minus people who departed over land, is Egypt even able to handle this many flights per day?
One thing was quite odd was Iraqis leaving. Kind of feel sorry for them.
Many students if not most students from S.E.A have been evacuated, according to press reports. Chinese nationals as well, there were 6000 there and all evacuated, reportedly. Gulf Arabs were also getting out of there, many with their 4x4/cars through Sinai and onto the the Arabian Pennisueala.
It just seems like 160K per day is a lot, and even if that number was correct, I'm sure it wasn't continous.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Tried to find a news article online. And it is 160,000 total, not daily. That's much more logical.
Ok I was right the first time Sorry for the confusion. I knew I heard 160K/100K tourists per day, but when I searched 160K leaving Egypt daily, the results were 160K total.
Mr. Torturer apparently reiterated the staggering numbers I quoted above.
“Egyptian state television, newly appointed Vice President Omar Suleiman said a million tourists had left the country since the unrest began last week, costing the national economy about $1 billion so far.”
This was written Feb 4, or ten days after Jan 25th.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Thanks for finding that info. Seems hard to believe though eh, a million people?? Even taking into consideration airports at the Red Sea and in Alex.
Maybe he was just pulling a number out of the air to make it seem worse than it was? To make it seem like the protesters were causing so much damage, etc. ?
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: “Egyptian state television, newly appointed Vice President Omar Suleiman said a million tourists had left the country since the unrest began last week, costing the national economy about $1 billion so far.”
This was written Feb 4, or ten days after Jan 25th.
Something not quite right about those numbers. How many tourists does Egypt get a year? and how much does Egypt make from tourism? If we lost one billion in ten days, this means that - assuming a uniform distribution of tourism income across the year - we make around 36 billion US dollars a year. This is somewhere around 600 billion LE a year!!! Get out of here!
On the other hand, if we assume that this is a peak season and that for the rest of the year the income is not that high, then we can assume say 100 billion LE a year. Still sounds way too much in my view. I doubt even the whole budget of Egypt is that much. And we're talking tourism only, there's still other sources of income like Petroleum and Suez Canal revenue. I have to admit though, I don't know Egypt's annual budget. Can somebody around here perhaps illuminate us on the issue. I'm sure there must be some business people around.
Posted by Desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
Just had a quick glance at this page... We have 2 big travel companies in Belgium; Thomas Cook and Sunjets. One set in planes to evacuate all Belgian tourists out of the whole of Egypt. The other company said they coud stay cause the Red Sea area seemed safe. I read tourists sypathised with the Egyptian people and peacefully walked with them in the streets... I have no idea about the number of people.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
"Tourism currently accounts for 11.3% of Egypt’s GDP directly and indirectly, which provides the country with a share of 21.4% of foreign currency and a share of 44.1% of the non-tradable exports. In 2008/09, tourism generated receipts worth in excess of USD 10.5 billion and revenues are expected to increase substantially in the coming years as both the number of tourists and the average duration of stay are on the rise. Tourism also contributes with 4% of total investment and 13% of the total investments of production services, where the private sector investments play a major role with around 73% of these investments."
Couldn't tell you how accurate that info is, but the site is here:
Was reading today that the Suez Canal generates roughly $13M DAILY. That's a lot of ayish balady!!
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Was reading today that the Suez Canal generates roughly $13M DAILY. That's a lot of ayish balady!!
ok, so Laura contributed about 4.5 Bil USD, and Monkey another 10.5 Bil USD, anybody else wants to contribute? We're still short of the one Bil USD per ten days his excellency was talking about, and that's from tourism alone. That's a 100 Mil USD a day, about 7.5 times Suez Canal.
C'mon folks, don't be stingy, dig deeper in your pockets!
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Was reading today that the Suez Canal generates roughly $13M DAILY. That's a lot of ayish balady!!
ok, so Laura contributed about 4.5 Bil USD, and Monkey another 10.5 Bil USD, anybody else wants to contribute? We're still short of the one Bil USD per ten days his excellency was talking about, and that's from tourism alone. That's a 100 Mil USD a day, about 7.5 times Suez Canal.
C'mon folks, don't be stingy, dig deeper in your pockets!
Ahem......my money goes directly into my Swiss Bank Account Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by think: Here is the full Wael Ghonim interview with subtitles. 3 parts, autoplay. Click CC below video if you can't see subtitles
Thanks for the link, I've just watched the interview. Obviously he's an intelligent fellow, but for some reason the interview didn't do it all for me I'm afraid. It's a bit like Amr Khalid, he's also very intelligent and articulate, but for some reason I couldn't connect with him. That doesn't take from either of them by the way. There are a three things that I didn't like 1- The presenter/interviewer is bigging him up too much. She seems to have the same state TV mentality, even though this is a private channel. That's how Mubarak and others before him were made. When people keep telling them how great they are, and after a while they believe it, and then it becomes unquestionable to the extent that without them the country falls into "chaos". 2- The guy himself seems to be making the same mistake he's criticising in others, and that is to make assumptions about other people's motives. That's when he's talking about getting their share in the cake, etc. He seems to refuse to accept that other people may be as well-intentioned as he is, just because they belong to some party or political movement. 3- The last bit came across as rather contrived, for me at least. His crying and then the sad music. I'm not necessarily suggesting that his tears are not genuine, but the sad music accompanying it makes it a bit staged, especially that we're led to believe at the begining that the interview is live. Maybe the music was added later before uploading to the net and wasn't there originally, in which case it didn't really help the cause.
In any event, irrespective of my view of the interview which I'm sure many will not share, I wish him and all the others well and I wish the revolution succeeds.
Posted by tina m (Member # 13845) on :
and how much of all of the usa money did the president keep for himself? i heard it was for the army but did they get any?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Marwa Rakha has done a review of the various speeches here:
Crisis costing Egyptian economy at least $310 Per Day...
As of 2/4: Egypt's economy has lost at least $3.1 billion as a result of the political crisis in the country, investment bank Credit Agricole said in a report released on Friday, as tens of thousands of protesters massed in downtown Cairo demanding the president's ouster. (Source)
.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
The momentum is still there!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tina m: and how much of all of the usa money did the president keep for himself? i heard it was for the army but did they get any?
I have it on good authority that the army tank camped outisde HSBC bank here is at least 18 years old, but the soldiers do have nice uniforms Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Well if Mr M is worth $70 billion and $2 billion has been given every year for 30 years, it's not for me to comment Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Speakers’ Corner on the Nile By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN Published: February 7, 2011
I’m in Tahrir Square, and of all the amazing things one sees here the one that strikes me most is a bearded man who is galloping up and down, literally screaming himself hoarse, saying: “I feel free! I feel free!” Gathered around him are Egyptians of all ages, including a woman so veiled that she has only a slit for her eyes, and they’re all holding up cellphones taking pictures and video of this man, determined to capture the moment in case it never comes again.
Aren’t we all? In 40 years of writing about the Middle East, I have never seen anything like what is happening in Tahrir Square. In a region where the truth and truth-tellers have so long been smothered under the crushing weight of oil, autocracy and religious obscurantism, suddenly the Arab world has a truly free space — a space that Egyptians themselves, not a foreign army, have liberated — and the truth is now gushing out of here like a torrent from a broken hydrant.
What one hears while strolling around are all the pent-up hopes, aspirations and frustrations of Egyptians for the last 50 years. I know the “realist” experts believe this will all be shut down soon. Maybe it will. But for one brief shining moment, forget the experts and just listen. You have not heard this before. It is the sound of a people so long kept voiceless, finally finding, testing and celebrating their own voices.
“We got a message from Tunis,” Hosam Khalaf, a 50-year-old engineer stopped me to say. “And the message was: Don’t burn yourself up; burn up the fear that is inside you. That is what happened here. This was a society in fear, and the fear has been burned.” Khalaf added that he came here with his wife and daughter for one reason: “When we meet God, we will at least be able to say: ‘We tried to do something.’ ”
This is not a religious event here, and the Muslim Brotherhood is not running the show. This is an Egyptian event. That is its strength and its weakness — no one is in charge and everyone in the society is here. You see secular girls in fashionable dress sitting with veiled women. You see parents pushing their babies wearing “Mubarak must leave” signs. You see students in jeans and peasants in robes. What unites all of them is a fierce desire to gain control of their future.
“This is the first time in my life I get to say what I think in public,” said Remon Shenoda, a software engineer. “And what is common here is that everyone wants to say something.”
Indeed, there is a powerful sense of theft here, that this regime and its cronies not only stole wealth, but they stole something so much more precious: the future of an entire generation of Egyptians, whom they refused to empower or offer any inspiring vision worthy of this great civilization.
“All Egyptian people believe that their country is a great country with very deep roots in history, but the Mubarak regime broke our dignity in the Arab world and in the whole world,” said Mohamed Serag, a professor at Cairo University. By the way, everyone here wants to give you their name and make sure you spell it right. Yes, the fear is gone.
Referring to Egypt’s backward public education system that depends so much on repetition, one young girl was wearing a sign urging Mubarak to leave quickly. It said: “Make it short. This is history, and we will have to memorize it at school.”
Grievances abound. An elderly woman in a veil is shouting that she has three daughters who graduated from the college of commerce and none of them can find jobs. There are signs everywhere asking about Mubarak, a former Air Force chief. Questions such as: “Hey Mr. Pilot, where did you get that $17 billion?”
You almost never hear the word “Israel,” and the pictures of “martyrs” plastered around the square are something rarely seen in the Arab world — Egyptians who died fighting for their own freedom not against Israel.
When you enter the square now, one row of volunteers checks your ID, another frisks you for weapons and then you walk through a long gauntlet of men clapping and singing an Egyptian welcome song.
I confess, as I walked through, my head had a wrestling match going on inside. My brain was telling me: “Sober up — remember, this is not a neighborhood with happy endings. Only bad guys win here.” And my eyes were telling me: “Just watch and take notes. This is something totally new.”
And the this is a titanic struggle and negotiation between the tired but still powerful, top-down 1952 Egyptian Army-led revolution and a vibrant, new, but chaotic, 2011, people-led revolution from the bottom-up — which has no guns but enormous legitimacy. I hope the Tahrir Square protesters can get organized enough to negotiate a new constitution with the army. There will be setbacks. But whatever happens, they have changed Egypt.
After we walked from Tahrir Square across the Nile bridge, Professor Mamoun Fandy remarked to me that there is an old Egyptian poem that says: “ ‘The Nile can bend and turn, but what is impossible is that it would ever dry up.’ The same is true of the river of freedom that is loose here now. Maybe you can bend it for a while, or turn it, but it is not going to dry up.”
A version of this op-ed appeared in print on February 8, 2011, on page A27 of the New York edition.
Anderson Cooper savaged the Egyptian government on his Monday show, saying that President Hosni Mubarak's regime has blood on its hands and is lying to the world about its actions.
It was Cooper's first show since he returned from Egypt after a week in which he was attacked twice by supporters of Mubarak, and he didn't hold back.
Cooper began by noting that nearly 300 people have been killed in Egypt since the uprising began.
"That is the truth of the Mubarak regime," he said. "They have blood on their hands...are they really going to change for themselves?" He also said he would expose the "lies" of the government. The word, he said, was "one we rarely use...but we can't think of another word right now to describe what the Egyptian government has been saying, because what they have been saying is the direct opposite of what they have been doing."
As examples, Cooper said that, while the government has claimed to be reaching out to the opposition, "his secret police were still arresting opposition figures." He also said that, while the Egyptian government has denied being involved in the violence directed at protesters, the Egyptian military had been conspicuously slow to react to the targeting of demonstrators by pro-Mubarak forces.
"This is a police state," Cooper concluded.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Occupying a public square and saying That This person is criminal is a violation in the safety and security of this country and violation of the court and the system.
We can say The nation want a change instead we want to kill mubarak and execute him without trial.
Freedom of speech means that even if the president of Egypt doesn't like what a citizen of his country has to say have to say, it is STILL A RIGHT OF A CITIZEN OF EGYPT TO BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT HE/SHE FEELS. Without fear.
"If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Stalin and Hitler, for example, were dictators in favor of freedom of speech for views they liked only. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise." Noam Chomsky.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
رداً على قرار رئيس الجمهورية بتشكيل لجنة لتعديل الدستور يعلن حزب الجبهة الديمقراطية أن تعديل المواد 88,77,76 لا يحتاج الى تشكيل لجنة دستورية بهذا العدد وبرئاسة رئيس محكمة النقض الحالى كما إنها لا تحتاج ايضاً الى المدة الزمنية التى أعطيت للجنة حتى 1 مارس لتنتهى من عملها . ويرى حزب الجبهة الديمقراطية إن تعديل المادة 76 يمكن تحقيقه بإلغاء النص الحالى ووضع نص جديد كالتالى :-
ينتخب رئيس الجمهورية عن طريق الإقتراع السرى المباشر من بين مرشحين متعددين وبشرط أن يتقدم كل مرشح بتفويض رسمى موثق من 10000 ناخب ويفوز المرشح الحاصل على نسبة 50% + واحد من مجموع الاصوات الصحيحة . فإذا لم يتحقق ذلك تجرى دورة ثانية للإنتخابات فى الاسبوع التالى بين الاثنين من المرشحين الحاصلين على أعلى الاصوات يفوز منهما المرشح الحاصل على الأغلبية ويبين القانون أحكام وإجراءات الترشح للرئاسة . أما المادة 77 فيكمن تعديلها على الوجه التالى :- مدة الرئاسة خمس سنوات ميلادية تبدأ من تاريخ أعلان نتيجة الإنتخابات ولا يجوز إعادة إنتخاب رئيس الجمهورية لإكثر من مدتين متتاليتين . وبالنسبة للمادة 88 فيمكن تعديلها على الوجه التالى :- يحدد القانون الشروط الواجب توافرها فى أعضاء مجلس الشعب ويبين أحكام الإنتخاب والاستفتاء على أن تقوم بإدراة الإنتخابات بالكامل وفى جميع مراحلها هيئة قضائية مستقلة . ويعتبر الحزب أن قرار تشكيل هذة اللجنة هو من باب اللف والدوران وتضييع الوقت ويهدف الى أن يبقى الرئيس فى مكانه حتى نهاية مدته الدستورية وهو ما لا تقبل به الثورة التى أعلنت بشكل واضح لا لبس فيه ان مطلبها الرئيسى هو إسقاط النظام وإسقاط الرئيس . 8 فبراير 2011
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Occupying a public square and saying That This person is criminal is a violation in the safety and security of this country and violation of the court and the system.
We can say The nation want a change instead we want to kill mubarak and execute him without trial.
Freedom of speech means that even if the president of Egypt doesn't like what a citizen of his country has to say have to say, it is STILL A RIGHT OF A CITIZEN OF EGYPT TO BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT HE/SHE FEELS. Without fear.
"If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Stalin and Hitler, for example, were dictators in favor of freedom of speech for views they liked only. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise." Noam Chomsky.
How do you figure? Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Because you can't pick and choose whose free to speak. Everyone is free to have their two penneth, whether you like what they're saying or not.
Makes sense to me.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
But they did pick and choose whose was free to speak.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Who did?
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
I'm sorry, I misread the quote. I misread this part;
"were dictators in favor of freedom of speech for views they liked only ."
... my bad I agree with the quote.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Ah right.
So if I think Jeremy Kyle should shut his cakehole, does that make me a fascist dictator? Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Ah right.
So if I think Jeremy Kyle should shut his cakehole, does that make me a fascist dictator?
Not a facist dictator...but he is a pain the the a$$ Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Listening to him is purgatory. If I ever need to motivate myself, I just put him on in the background. Helps get the housework done in record time Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Just got a text message from "MOI", we're guessing that's the Ministry of the Interior. It said something about that the police were in our service and there to help us.
lol?? They're joking right?
Anyone else get one of these?
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
Folks, who's Tamer Hosny?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Thanks Monkey, I've found that. I've never heard of him, but seems I was in a cave for the past few years. Anyway, I was actually interested in what people thought of him, in particular from a political stand point. Aljazeera says he was kicked out of Tahrir last night!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I heard about him a while back re: the forgery/prison business.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
He's been on AJE crying about what he did today. Claims he was duped.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: He's been on AJE crying about what he did today. Claims he was duped.
duped by whom? Any links Shanta I couldn't care less about him, I'm just worried about the activists in the square (I think the term "activists" is better than "protestors", it's more positive!)
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Yes I agree about the terminology and I'm endeavouring not to use the 'p' word.
I don't have a link, sorry it's on BBC World "The Hub" not AJE. I forgot I changed channels.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Stunning photography! Thanks for posting this. I would love a day with him and his camera!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Figured the chaos thing they are going on about if he leaves now. I agree, a party of that size needs to be properly organized. Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
RE: Terminology
Terminology is important. This was especially important in the beginning of the revolution when “anti-government” and simply “protesters” changed to “pro-democracy protesters/demonstrators" by many news networks. As a movement, any movement for that matter wants to be identified according to their cause. Pro-democracy protesters, pro-democracy demonstrators and even pro-democracy activists are all appropriate and that is what matters.
Pro-democracy protesters/demonstrators are by far the terms that are mostly used to identify the people on the streets in tahrir. Here are the facts:
The word protesters in Arabic is “المحتجون " Demonstrators in Arabic is “المتظاهرين ". Activists in Arabic is “نشطاء"
Seldom is the word activists used by Arabic media, including opposition papers and even demonstrators themselves. An example is Al-Jazeera Arabic which uses the words protesters and demonstrators almost all of the time. The same with Al-Jazeera English which predominately uses the term pro-democracy protesters.
Personally I believe all three terms are correct if used properly. When a person is online for a cause they are mainly activists, the same is true for those who email call their politicians. The people at tahrir can be identified as both and protesters or demonstrators is definitely appropriate, especially when they are part of a protest or demonstration.
But really it doesn't matter what I personally think, it is what the media/masses/UN/US/UK/EU ultimately labels them. I am however satsified when the word "democracy" is used, because that is their cause irregardless of individual capacity whether it's as an activist or steet protestor.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
RE: US Warships
It is confirmed that US warships are heading to the Red Sea. It was also published in an LA Times Blog, so it's not simply Press TV. More disturbing are reports that “multiple marine platoons” are heading there as well. Multiple platoons can mean anything from 100 marines to several hundred. This is reported on several websites. I'll provide the links below. The number is small, but that's how it always is, first it's recon, and then the party. I do however think that these units are deployed for evacuation, possibly to evacuate the US marines that are remain stationed in the US Embassy, in the event matters escualate. Probably a case of “hope for the best, plan for the worst.
I think that they told Mubarak this the other day when the whole 'foreign agenda' thing popped up.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: RE: Terminology
But really it doesn't matter what I personally think, it is what the media/masses/UN/US/UK/EU ultimately labels them. I am however satsified when the word "democracy" is used, because that is their cause irregardless of individual capacity whether it's as an activist or steet protestor.
Exiiled, I agree but also think that language and more importantly culture is a factor in the choice of words as it determines the symantics.
For example, the word "activist" is not common in everyday language in the Arabic spoken in Egypt. Its connotations may be different from that in English. As for the effect of culture (even when the language is the same), I give you an example from the English language. Even within my lifetime I've witnessed the evolution of the wording associated with this concept. It's the word "crippled" which became "handicapped" which became "disabled". That's because the cultural view of this issue evolved with time.
BTW you talk about how others label them, but what do they prefer to call themselves.
Anyway, just a few thoughts. We now resume our regular programming.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
I know he's young but if he doesn't run for president I'll be really sad. He just has to be part of the new government!
Crikey, Google gets everywhere these days. But Google for President? I don't know Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Crikey, Google gets everywhere these days. But Google for President? I don't know
Well I assume he'd quit his job at google if he ran . He's definitely a leader that the protestors are listening to and some when questioned said they'd accept him.
I love how he says "thanks" after tear gas, giving that subtle nudge that he knows it was made in the usa.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I don't think there's any way he could be president at this point, but an appointment somewhere in the government, when things get sorted, might be nice. Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I don't think there's any way he could be president at this point, but an appointment somewhere in the government, when things get sorted, might be nice.
He does seem intelligent and sounds genuine, but my worry is about the manufacture of a hero. I'm worried that they'll keep telling him how great he is, that he starts to believe that he's better than everybody else. I don't want to see another Nasser (leader of the revolution) or Sadat (leader of crossing the canal, ka'ed al-oboor) or Mubarak (leader of the eggplant, or aubergine in the UK). We don't want Ghoneim (the electronic leader, al-ka'ed al-electrony).
I just hope he keeps he's head firmly screwed to his shoulders. He does seem like a decent fellow, I hope he remains so.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
It just dawned on me... They guy they were showing on youtube as Wael Ghonim getting arrested, I don't think it was even him. It looks like him but the hair's all wrong.
Wonder what happened to that poor bloke.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: It just dawned on me... They guy they were showing on youtube as Wael Ghonim getting arrested, I don't think it was even him. It looks like him but the hair's all wrong.
Well, I'm sure he won't be meeting the minister of interior nor Hossam Badrawi. Is this the fairness that Wail Ghoneim is calling for. The courgette (zuchini, squash, kowsa) have started!
Hmm, I'm talking vegetable today Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
It also occurred to me, after seeing the video and then hearing about his abduction, that it musn't have been him, since he said he was taken at night and the video is shot during the day? Or perhaps I'm mixing something up.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: It just dawned on me... They guy they were showing on youtube as Wael Ghonim getting arrested, I don't think it was even him. It looks like him but the hair's all wrong.
Thats not him, he was taken at around 1am in the morning of the Friday 28th, not in broad daylight. Sure I read it somewhere
edit: sorry didn't refresh and see loved one's post Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
He also said he was getting into a cab and that they slapped a blindfold on him.
Nobody's mentioning it though. Maybe it was google who found that video and plastered it everywhere - mistaken identity. Apparently they tried hard to find him. Maybe no one's saying anything for fear of making the big G look silly.
Right, that's it. Before I end up babbling about fake moon landings and such nonsense. I'm not trying to snatch the crown of ES's resident conspiracy theorist Enough already. That would never do.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Any news when the curfew will come to an end?
There is little point me returning yet if all I have to do on an evening is stay home!
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Any news when the curfew will come to an end?
There is little point me returning yet if all I have to do on an evening is stay home!
You've barely just left! Would you come back now if the curfew was lifted??
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
I am due back in 11 days... if the curfew still stands I may defer it for a few more weeks. No point returning back home if I cannot go out at night!!!
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Ah, I didn't know you had booked it return.
Well, I've not heard any word about the curfew being lifted. Quite honestly I don't know why they are keeping the curfew if it's just to keep the protesters home, because it's obviously not working. lol
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
I hope this sh#t is over soon. I am starting to get annoyed by the news coming out of Egypt. Give the protesters what they want and let the country return back to normal. But no - Mubarak continues to cling on to his power and the situation ain't getting any better. Every day which goes by like that is a day lost for the country's economy and the lives of its citizens.
More importantly I am worried about my own vacation plans for spring/summer. I am really not looking forward to travel to Mallorca or any other place instead of Egypt so - wrap it up Mubarak and let it go.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
tigerlilly says,
''I hope this sh#t is over soon. I am starting to get annoyed by the news coming out of Egypt. Give the protesters what they want and let the country return back to normal. But no - Mubarak continues to cling on to his power and the situation ain't getting any better. Every day which goes by like that is a day lost for the country's economy and the lives of its citizens.
''More importantly I am worried about my own vacation plans for spring/summer. I am really not looking forward to travel to Mallorca or any other place instead of Egypt so - wrap it up Mubarak and let it go.''
And Mubarak is counting on many an attitude like yours to cling to power. In other words you're tiring of the whole business and you seem to be upset about your vacation plans--because you may be inconvenienced. I take it then the people doing the protesting are all wrong from your vacation point of view?
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Every day which goes by like that is a day lost for the country's economy and the lives of its citizens.
Life can go on even if there are people camping in Tahrir and demonstrating. In fact, life is getting back to normal, schools and universities are opening, people are getting back to work.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: More importantly I am worried about my own vacation plans for spring/summer. I am really not looking forward to travel to Mallorca or any other place instead of Egypt so - wrap it up Mubarak and let it go.
I hope this is just an unlucky choice of words. I would think that the future of the Egyptian people is more important to you than personal travel plans. But in any case, there is no reason why you should not go to Egypt in summer, regardless of what Mubarak is doing. What do you think is going to happen to you? I would assume that people would welcome you with open arms, given the state of the tourism industry here.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
OMG... Just... OMG.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: OMG... Just... OMG.
ee by gum me duck, never thought I'd see the day Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: OMG... Just... OMG.
ee by gum me duck, never thought I'd see the day
@Ayisha
Seriously though, words fail me.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
the Times of London reports:
“Saudi Arabia has threatened to prop up President Mubarak if the White House tries to force a swift change of regime in Egypt. In a testy personal telephone call on January 29, King Abdullah told President Obama not to humiliate Mr Mubarak and warned that he would step in to bankroll Egypt if the US withdrew its aid programme, worth $1.5 billion annually.”
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Every day which goes by like that is a day lost for the country's economy and the lives of its citizens.
Life can go on even if there are people camping in Tahrir and demonstrating. In fact, life is getting back to normal, schools and universities are opening, people are getting back to work.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: More importantly I am worried about my own vacation plans for spring/summer. I am really not looking forward to travel to Mallorca or any other place instead of Egypt so - wrap it up Mubarak and let it go.
I hope this is just an unlucky choice of words. I would think that the future of the Egyptian people is more important to you than personal travel plans. But in any case, there is no reason why you should not go to Egypt in summer, regardless of what Mubarak is doing. What do you think is going to happen to you? I would assume that people would welcome you with open arms, given the state of the tourism industry here.
Hm, are you sure you are living in Egypt because as a matter of fact Egyptian schools und universities are STILL closed.
Minister of Civil Aviation Ibrahim Mannaa said on Wednesday that flights to Egypt have declined by 70 percent, which led to a sharp drop in profits.
Sources at Cairo International Airport said 14 of the international airlines canceled their flights to Cairo on Wednesday due to a lack of passengers.
“Passengers boarding EgyptAir flights have dropped to 54 percent,” added Mannaa. “Losses during the past two weeks can only be calculated after all losses are identified.”
“The aviation sector in Egypt will carry out its development projects and pay for all its financial commitments. We paid all our installments in February,” Mannaa added.
Manna promised that airport workers would not be affected by the drop in profits saying, "They will not be laid off. Their salaries will not be cut.”
Navigational sources at Cairo Airport said EgyptAir decreased its local and international flights by slightly more than half.
Furthermore 90% of Egyptian workers at the holiday resorts got laid off work and sent home with unpaid leave so there is not much going on IMHO, is there Dalia???????
Tourist resorts, hotels and tourism companies in Red Sea governorates granted 90 percent of workers open-ended periods of leave without pay after tourism sharply declined amid ongoing nationwide unrest.
However, other tourist resorts decided to keep security and gardening laborers, but without paying bonuses. The number of workers in the Red Sea’s hotel sector is estimated at 400,000.
As a number of foreign airlines closed their branches at Hurghada airport, workers were given open-ended periods of leave until situation is settled and tourist flights are resumed.
Occupancy rates at hotels and tourist resorts at Hurghada, Marsa Alam and al-Qoseir reached failed to surpass 15 in 80 percent of the resorts, the lowest rate recorded in recent years.
According to a report issued by the chamber of hotels, occupancy rates are expected to approach zero by the middle of next week as tourist flights from Europe and Russia stop completely and the rest of Egypt’s tourists leave on Monday.
Ali Shaaban, the head of a tourist company in Hurghada, said European and Russian tourist companies began substituting Turkey, Morocco and Canary islands for Egypt’s tourist market. Over 250,000 tourists canceled their flights to the Red Sea in the last ten days.
"Hundreds of hotel employees lose their jobs in Sinai
...Hundreds of thousands of workers in the tourism sector in Sinai and the Red Sea governorates are losing their jobs as tourists continue to leave the country in light of continued political unrest and anarchy.
In Sharm el-Sheikh 400,000 workers in the tourism sector are in threat of unemployment if tourism trends continue as they are..."
And this is just the beginning. You need tourists so Egyptians can make a living.
Simply you need people like me to come and spend money in these resorts. Like it or not.
IMHO you are seriously out of touch with reality.
Egyptian museum, Giza pyramids... all major attractions are closed right now because of instability which means millions of $ of losses for the local economy.
I got it. It's not your hartship. You don't depend on the tourism but millions of other Egyptians do.
Don't make things sound nicer than they really are right now. You think by sitting somewhere in El Rehab you get the full picture of what's going on? Have you been to Downtown Al Tahrir yet? No? Too scared????
Egypt needs stability to bring business back (and I am not talking here only about the tourism sector). As long as the protests last there is no hope.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Egyptian Labor Joins in Protests By Matt Bradley
Cairo – Egyptian labor contributed its presence in streets across the country on Wednesday, as workers protested low pay and injected a new variable into an uprising now in its 16th day. Workers at companies in the textiles, cement, chemicals, transport, telecom and tourism sectors joined in wildcat strikes in Cairo and smaller cities throughout the country, blocking major highways and shutting factories.Estimates of the number of laborers varied, ranging from as low as 5,000 to tens of thousands nationwide ...."
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: More importantly I am worried about my own vacation plans for spring/summer.
That took my breath away. Seriously, more importantly? More important than the economic devastation, the people tortured and 300 odd killed. Seriously, your holiday plans are more important?
Wow.
Anyway, Sharm is perfectly ok. There is no trouble there whatsoever.
Jump in, the water is warm.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Eee by gum, by eckers like as reet as not.
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
Quick question and if it's been answered already sorry. I'm on my way out the door and my sister in law just called to say that she got news the curfew was changed back to 3pm again? Anyone can verify this? or is this incorrect info? Thanks in advance!
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Yes, I think we get that. It was:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: More importantly I am worried about my own vacation plans for spring/summer.
That took my breath away. Seriously, more importantly? More important than the economic devastation, the people tortured and 300 odd killed. Seriously, your holiday plans are more important?
That's the problem with you people. You just jump on anything to make a nonsense comment. Please quote my FULL post.
I clearly stated that if the protests continue the losses for Egypt's economy will be devastating. But what I am saying here. I just seem to repeat myself over and over again cause you only elect to read what you WANT to read.
And yes I am looking forward to my vacations. I deserve them just like the many employees in the tourism industry deserve to make money for a living and not being sent home with unpaid leave for an indefinite time or losing their jobs in the end.
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Anyway, Sharm is perfectly ok. There is no trouble there whatsoever. Jump in, the water is warm.
Wow... is that really so???? Truly I would have thought completely otherwise but since you told me I know better now. Thank you very much. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Look, it's pretty clear you're completely self-absorbed so let's drop the facade of giving a toss and wanting to save the world, shall we?
Re: Sharm - do you know anyone there? It does help to give a more accurate picture. I can assure you, it's very quiet, but it's fine.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
"Because of the unrest, Egypt is losing vital money from the tourism industry. There aren’t many tourists left in the country since governments worldwide started banning travel to certain cities, which soon turned into all of the nation. The UK is the only country whose government says that the Red Sea resorts are still safe to visit, so Brits are pretty much the only ones left. Everyone else has been either evacuated by their tour operator or on a government charter flight, or they have left on their own to seek safety from the unrest."
I was disappointed with that film though, TBH. I prefer a nice happy ending.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Okay, sorry to break in, is it raining for everyone else? We just had some thunder so loud I swear it scared the pants off me!! lol Vibrated the building and everything! woo!
Hope the people out in Tahrir are keeping warm and dry!
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: I hope this sh#t is over soon. I am starting to get annoyed by the news coming out of Egypt. Give the protesters what they want and let the country return back to normal. But no - Mubarak continues to cling on to his power and the situation ain't getting any better. Every day which goes by like that is a day lost for the country's economy and the lives of its citizens.
More importantly I am worried about my own vacation plans for spring/summer. I am really not looking forward to travel to Mallorca or any other place instead of Egypt so - wrap it up Mubarak and let it go.
Quoted in full. Still speechless as well. They're your words, there in black and white. And it's pretty difficult to misunderstand the meaning. Regardless of your political views on the situation, it all boils down to your holiday plans being disrupted.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
@ TL "Egypt needs stability to bring business back (and I am not talking here only about the tourism sector). As long as the protests last there is no hope."
"I clearly stated that if the protests continue the losses for Egypt's economy will be devastating. "
The word in bold really should be "Mubarak Regime" and not "protests"
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: "Because of the unrest, Egypt is losing vital money from the tourism industry. There aren’t many tourists left in the country since governments worldwide started banning travel to certain cities, which soon turned into all of the nation. The UK is the only country whose government says that the Red Sea resorts are still safe to visit, so Brits are pretty much the only ones left. Everyone else has been either evacuated by their tour operator or on a government charter flight, or they have left on their own to seek safety from the unrest."
Was just posted. Get a real deal of the situation.
I think you need to get a real deal on the situation. The OTHER country governments have banned travel to here, not EGYPT, not the protestors. The media hype and the embassies have stopped tourists, not the protestors. You need to direct your concern for tourism in Egypt to THEM who banned travel, not towards the protestors.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Just got this on my Etisalat USB modem:
من وزارة الداخلية - الشرطة لن تكون إلا في خدمة الشعب و حمايته
According to Google Translate it means this:
From the Ministry of Interior - police would not only be in the service of the people and protect
Someone else said yesterday they got one of these?
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Just got this on my Etisalat USB modem:
من وزارة الداخلية - الشرطة لن تكون إلا في خدمة الشعب و حمايته
According to Google Translate it means this:
From the Ministry of Interior - police would not only be in the service of the people and protect
Someone else said yesterday they got one of these?
That was me. Thought it odd no one else had gotten one, not even hubby! Glad I'm not the only one.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
It's only come on my USB Etisalat modem though, not my Etisalat mobile phone! which reminds me - see PM that I'm about to send LovedOne!
Posted by cbrbddd (Member # 3891) on :
Travel to Egypt from the States isn't forbidden, it is just recommended to avoid it. http://travel.state.gov/
There are still flights (EgyptAir of course) and I know someone (in Texas) who has family living in Cairo who did go last week.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
"Egypt protests: Hosni Mubarak 'may be stepping down' A senior member of Egypt's ruling party has told the BBC he is "hoping" that President Hosni Mubarak will transfer power to Vice-President Omar Suleiman."
Stick your tvs on chaps - breaking news. Significant I think.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Holy smokes!!!! Woooohoooo!!!
Only problem is, that leaves the VP in his place, we're replacing the pot with the kettle! Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
It was on Egyptian State TV too.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Holy smokes!!!! Woooohoooo!!!
Only problem is, that leaves the VP in his place, we're replacing the pot with the kettle!
Possibly a junta (army), on a transitional basis. Mubarak apparently lost confidence of military.
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
.... can anyone else NOT breathe?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Gonna have a kip in a while - looks like a long night of tv watching!
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Hm, are you sure you are living in Egypt because as a matter of fact Egyptian schools und universities are STILL closed.
I know the openings are being postponed, I work for a university. My point is they ARE opening, not indefinitely closed.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: I got it. It's not your hartship. You don't depend on the tourism but millions of other Egyptians do.
Erm … you were the one who just said that her holidays are more important to her than the condition of the Egyptian people. And now I'm supposedly not caring enough for their fate?
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Furthermore 90% of Egyptian workers at the holiday resorts got laid off work and sent home with unpaid leave so there is not much going on IMHO, is there Dalia???????
Tiger, this is not the point. Of course tourism is down and people are being layed off, but that's a different issue. My point was that it is not the protestors who keep life from going on, they are not hindering people from getting on with their lifes. And Cairo consists of more than just Tahrir Square, it's quite a big city, you know.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: IMHO you are seriously out of touch with reality.
Have you been here the past couple of weeks? Have you lived without communication with the outside world for days, double-bolted your door at night because looters and thugs were lose in your street? Have you interacted with Egyptians on a daily basis – with friends, colleagues, people in the ahwa, stores, taxi drivers and so on? Are you passing tanks and heavily armed soldiers every day while running your errands?
Fact is, you haven't. You're sitting in Germany behind your computer screen. And you have the audacity to lecture people about what reality in Cairo is like?
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: And this is just the beginning. You need tourists so Egyptians can make a living.
You need tourists so Egyptians can make a living.
Simply you need people like me to come and spend money in these resorts.
Most definitely. That's why I suggested you don't cancel your holiday. Can't you see you're contradicting yourself here?
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Don't make things sound nicer than they really are right now.
I don't try to make anything sound nicer than it is. There is a huge economic crisis, no doubt about that. But fact is also that people are out and about, stores are opening again, many people have started working again. Life is not at an entire standstill anymore.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: You think by sitting somewhere in El Rehab you get the full picture of what's going on? Have you been to Downtown Al Tahrir yet? No? Too scared????
I live in Maadi, not in Rehab. And, yes, I've arranged to go downtown tonight or tomorrow. Why should I be scared?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
I hope this is not a ploy.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
CIA director: "Strong possibility Mubarak to step down TONIGHT"
AJ Live
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Sounds like there's some in-fighting in the party. If they split, this could be the best way to get rid of his cronies.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: I hope this sh#t is over soon. I am starting to get annoyed by the news coming out of Egypt. Give the protesters what they want and let the country return back to normal. But no - Mubarak continues to cling on to his power and the situation ain't getting any better. Every day which goes by like that is a day lost for the country's economy and the lives of its citizens.
More importantly I am worried about my own vacation plans for spring/summer. I am really not looking forward to travel to Mallorca or any other place instead of Egypt so - wrap it up Mubarak and let it go.
Quite frankly, tiger, nobody gives a sh** what you think. Turn off the news, watch Desperate Housewives. Egypt is breaking free of despotism, corruption, poverty, ignorance, misery. THe mood is elated, joyful, hopeful, a bright future beckons.
Tourism has been hit by terrorism several times in the last few years, it will recover, and this is not terrorism, this is a very positive movement. A visit to Tahrir Square will now be added to every tourist itinerary.
Wooohooooo!
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
BBC just now Mubarak will make a speach to night..
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Egypt's Higher Military Council issued a televised address at 1730 local time, saying it was in a state of continuous session to protect the nation and meet the aspirations of the people. The move comes after two weeks of mass demonstrations calling on President Hosni Mubarak to resign.
Footage aired on the state-run Nile News TV showed Defence Minister Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi chairing the meeting of two dozen army officers seated around a table. Here is the full text of the statement read out by a spokesman Statement text
Statement Number One, issued by the Higher Council of the Armed Forces,
Stemming from the armed forces' responsibility and committing to the protection of the people, safeguarding their interest and security, and keen on the safety of the homeland, the citizens and the achievements of the great Egyptian people, and asserting the legitimate rights of the people,
The Higher Council of the Armed Forces convened today, Thursday, 10 February 2011, to deliberate on the latest developments of the situation and decided to remain in continuous session to discuss what measures and arrangements could be taken to safeguard the homeland and its achievements, and the aspirations of the great Egyptian people.
Follow the Egyptian money he Egyptian protests have thrown a spotlight on what the Obama administration has done in its first two years to help promote democracy in Egypt. The administration has claimed that it privately pressed Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak for changes, but we have documented how President Obama, at least in his public statements, tended to play down the need for specific actions by the Egyptian government.
Clinton's statement, made while discussing the turmoil in the Middle East during a security conference in Munich, raises another question: How committed has the administration been to supporting democracy-minded civic and social organizations -- what are known collectively as civil society-- in Egypt? To find out the answer, we need to follow the money.
The Facts
Since the Camp David peace accords more than three decades ago, the United States and Egypt have had an unspoken bargain in terms of the roughly $2 billion in aid given each year to Cairo: The Egyptian government had veto power over which nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) could receive the money. This deal meant that funds labeled by Washington as promoting democracy often ended up being used for other projects, such as sludge removal or to bolster the very judicial institutions used to jail democracy advocates.
Meanwhile, the largest chunk of the annual largess, about $1.3 billion, was given to Egypt's military and security forces. The security forces have been repeatedly cited in the State Department's human rights report for torture, prolonged detentions without charge and other abuses. While overall aid to Egypt has declined in recent years, the budget for the security forces and the military has remained mostly intact.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Statement from Nile TV.....Mubarak left the country yesterday and has pre recorded a message.......
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: CIA director: "Strong possibility Mubarak to step down TONIGHT"
AJ Live
Looks like Mubarak has finally listened to the voice of reason, that's the voice of TL
Sorry TL, I never get involved in in-fighting, but couldn't help myslef!
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Statement from Nile TV.....Mubarak left the country yesterday and has pre recorded a message.......
Are you sure? Have you heard it yourself? There's no mention of it on AJ, don't know about other sites though.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Nile TV are saying so on Twitter apparently.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Statement from Nile TV.....Mubarak left the country yesterday and has pre recorded a message.......
Are you sure? Have you heard it yourself? There's no mention of it on AJ, don't know about other sites though.
It was anounced on SKY...but they said Nile was unreliable
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
According to some news reports he's in Sharm!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I was told that at the start - in his little bungalow on the seafront. He wouldn't even need a plane. Quick boat trip and he's in Saudi.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Egyptian official state tv is saying the statement from Mubarak will be live on air from Cairo
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Maybe he just wants to boost the tourist industry down there Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Every little helps Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
double post
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I knew the threat of the saidi lot coming would make him think Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Egyptian official state tv is saying the statement from Mubarak will be live on air from Cairo
Is Nile TV an official station? If so, then we have two contradictory official sources. (Not that there's anything unusual in that!)
In short, who do we believe? Is he in Egypt or out? If he is in Egypt, is he in Sharm or Cairo or somewhere else? Is he still alive btw? Is he still in this world?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Egyptian State TV reporter said he will speak live from the Presidential Palace tonight.
Apparently his previous speeches were pre-recorded.
So if he is in Sharm, he will fly back here to do the speech. It's only about 30 mins by jet I guess.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Egyptian official state tv is saying the statement from Mubarak will be live on air from Cairo
Is Nile TV an official station? If so, then we have two contradictory official sources. (Not that there's anything unusual in that!)
In short, who do we believe? Is he in Egypt or out? If he is in Egypt, is he in Sharm or Cairo or somewhere else? Is he still alive btw? Is he still in this world?
Source was Al Jazeera English, and they did not say Nile TV. Well, it's not like they're known for unbiased, cutting-edge, hard-hitting journalism..... so they'll say whatever they're told. :-)
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
1-2 hours til speech time according to Mustafa Al Fiki on AJE
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
What will happen.
1.Mubarak resigns > House speaker takes over > New elections in 60 days. The issue with this, under the constitution is that any candidates for election must have 1/3 support of Parliament. The problem is parliament is 90% controlled by NDP.
2.Mubarak resigns and transfers power to VP. The problem with this is Suleiman is hard core NDP. There are also reports that the Army prevented Hosini Mubarak from going on Air and handing power to Suleiman
3.Military Junta, the Army takes power.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: What will happen.
1.Mubarak resigns > House speaker takes over > New elections in 60 days. The issue with this, under the constitution is that any candidates for election must have 1/3 support of Parliament. The problem is parliament is 90% controlled by NDP.
2.Mubarak resigns and transfers power to VP. The problem with this is Suleiman is hard core NDP. There are also reports that the Army prevented Hosini Mubarak from going on Air and handing power to Suleiman
3.Military Junta, the Army takes power.
I think (or like) number 3. #1 is questionable because the validity of the current parliament is in doubt, by court rulings. #2 as you mention, in fact it favours the view that Mubarak's speach won't be live. The army can't take the chance of allowing it and him pulling the rug from beneath their feet.
So #3 is essentially the best of the worst options so to speak (I'm avoiding saying the best to several evils, because it's not evil).
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Just got this on my Etisalat USB modem:
من وزارة الداخلية - الشرطة لن تكون إلا في خدمة الشعب و حمايته
According to Google Translate it means this:
From the Ministry of Interior - police would not only be in the service of the people and protect
Someone else said yesterday they got one of these?
That was me. Thought it odd no one else had gotten one, not even hubby! Glad I'm not the only one.
Had mine just now on Voda and one earlier on Mobinil, hubby out so dunno what they say but both from MOI
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: What will happen.
1.Mubarak resigns > House speaker takes over > New elections in 60 days. The issue with this, under the constitution is that any candidates for election must have 1/3 support of Parliament. The problem is parliament is 90% controlled by NDP.
2.Mubarak resigns and transfers power to VP. The problem with this is Suleiman is hard core NDP. There are also reports that the Army prevented Hosini Mubarak from going on Air and handing power to Suleiman
3.Military Junta, the Army takes power.
I think (or like) number 3. #1 is questionable because the validity of the current parliament is in doubt, by court rulings. #2 as you mention, in fact it favours the view that Mubarak's speach won't be live. The army can't take the chance of allowing it and him pulling the rug from beneath their feet.
So #3 is essentially the best of the worst options so to speak (I'm avoiding saying the best to several evils, because it's not evil).
I also favor #3 but only on a temporary basis. Hopefully the military when/if they assume power will make it very clear that they will be in place on a transitional basis and eventually hand power to civilians.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: What will happen.
1.Mubarak resigns > House speaker takes over > New elections in 60 days. The issue with this, under the constitution is that any candidates for election must have 1/3 support of Parliament. The problem is parliament is 90% controlled by NDP.
2.Mubarak resigns and transfers power to VP. The problem with this is Suleiman is hard core NDP. There are also reports that the Army prevented Hosini Mubarak from going on Air and handing power to Suleiman
3.Military Junta, the Army takes power.
I think (or like) number 3. #1 is questionable because the validity of the current parliament is in doubt, by court rulings. #2 as you mention, in fact it favours the view that Mubarak's speach won't be live. The army can't take the chance of allowing it and him pulling the rug from beneath their feet.
So #3 is essentially the best of the worst options so to speak (I'm avoiding saying the best to several evils, because it's not evil).
I also favor #3 but only on a temporary basis. Hopefully the military when/if they assume power will make it very clear that they will be in place on a transitional basis and eventually hand power to civilians.
If military take power they will have 90 days to set up elections.....as per constitution.....but if there are strong enough leaders ready.....I wonder
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
It's Junta!!!!!!!!
Egyptian Official: Mubarak to Step Down, Transfer Authority to Armed Forces
President Hosni Mubarak will step down shortly and transfer authority to the Egyptian Higher Council of the Armed Forces, a senior Egyptian official confirmed to Fox News on Thursday.
The group is comprised of the minister of defense, Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi -- who stands atop the military hierarchy -- along with the military's chief of staff, the chief of operations, and commanders of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Air Defenses.
The source pointed out that the transfer of power will occur "outside of the constitutional framework" because under the Egyptian constitution, Mubarak's resignation ordinarily would mean that the speaker of the house would become president and elections would be held within 60 days. In this case, the military council will "not be governing under the constitution or any legislation," the source noted. "So they will have to define the format under which they are taking power."
The source did not know how long the military would reign nor what mechanism or timetable would be put in place to end the military's administration of power, but said that "when (the transfer of power from Mubarak) does happen, they will presumably indicate the direction of the country."
BBC News Information minister says Mubarak won't step down Army say Mubarak will fulfill all the people's demands. Is the government not to talking to itself?
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis: BBC News Information minister says Mubarak won't step down Army say Mubarak will fulfill all the people's demands. Is the government not to talking to itself?
Too much speculation.......we just have to wait a little longer.... Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
When Will Mubarak Make Speech
BBC Arabic 6:30GMT Egypt Newspaper 8:30PM Cairo Time Egypt State TV 10:00pm Cairo time
I BELIEVE!!!!!!! Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Obama live on tv right now.
AJE split screening so if the mentions Egypt they can flip to it.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: I knew the threat of the saidi lot coming would make him think
That dawned on me too... Coincidence? I think not Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: When Will Mubarak Make Speech
BBC Arabic 6:30GMT Egypt Newspaper 8:30PM Cairo Time Egypt State TV 10:00pm Cairo time
I BELIEVE!!!!!!!
AJ says 10:00 pm Cairo time Sorry, 8:30 pm already passed. Well, we can always hop on the time machine and switch to reverese.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
AJE obviously confident as they have now named their reporters 'on the ground' which they haven't done for well over a week.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Ah, I didn't know you had booked it return.
Well, I've not heard any word about the curfew being lifted. Quite honestly I don't know why they are keeping the curfew if it's just to keep the protesters home, because it's obviously not working. lol
Yeah... I have to return soon, I have to check all my belongings are ok! But I will only return briefly as I have travel plans
I hope the curfew has dropped by then, since OSN was cancelled TV sucks and I cannot sit on ES all night copying news links! It would driver me to the edge thinking I moved abroad to stay in all night!!!!
Just want to add that many schools are open and have been all week. Don't believe all you read.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Anyone just get a sms from the Armed Forces? What does it say (hubby is having a hard time with eyesight today)?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
A few of us have had them from the MOI - if it's the same one it basically says the police are here to serve you.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
I got that one too Shanta, but this one looks different..just wondering.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Oh come on, come on. We haven't got all day Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
I've seen paint drying quicker!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Maybe he's having his hair done.
Posted by Ocean Blue (Member # 15974) on :
perhaps packing up all his gold is taking longer than planned.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Egyptians are always late.......its one of their little qualities.... Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
It's like when Megadeth were 2 hours late coming on at the Hammersmith Odeon back in 88. Their instruments were confiscated by customs. Maybe that's happened here? Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ocean Blue: perhaps packing up all his gold is taking longer than planned.
Maybe the plane can't take off. It's too heavy Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
*deep breaths* *deep breaths* *deep breaths*
We're all gonna grow old waiting!!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if we were still waiting this time tomorrow.
What if he came on and said he was staying?
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: What if he came on and said he was staying?
That is a very scary thought given the frenzy that these crowds are in. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Nothing would surprise me anymore.
Oh come on. Nevermind TL's holiday. I want a bath Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
hes on
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
He's setting himself up to get lynched at this point. Suicide!!!
What a bast*rd!!!! Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
What is wrong with the man...cant he see what is going on?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Yeah, good luck with that mate.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
He is in another world.......he is saying he has done nothing wrong
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
the man is SERIOUSLY INSANE!!
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Can anyone tell what the crowd is chanting? I hope they aren't buying this load of crap! Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
"Some people" like there were two or three?
Jeese.
So he's blaming foreigners and a couple of black sheeps? OMG. Unbelievable.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
They dont sound happy
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Can anyone tell what the crowd is chanting? I hope they aren't buying this load of crap!
Yerhal.Yerhal.
He goes!!!!!!!
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
so staying, but delegating his powers to Solom
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
What powers?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
"some" of his powers
Shoes were raised.
It is certainly his country and DeNile flows through his veins
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: What powers?
not decided yet, at least not in this speach. So what was all this army stuff about. Are they still in session as they said/ What's their next move? Was that with their approval? Was the speach live btw?
How about the protestors? What's the next move?
I am HUGELY disapointed Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
He thought there would be chaos if he went! Well tomorrow I think he will see what the word chaos means Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
No, but what powers? What powers does he have? Who in that crowd is listening anymore? There are a fair few of them.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
The guy is completely detached from reality!!! How is the country going to function when everybody is on strike. He didn't seem to learn from the experience of the past few days, i.e. he can't give bit by bit. If what he gives doesn't meet the expectations, protests will keep going on until he gives a bit more. So he should get a clue.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
To be expected really, he's not moved an inch and giving all the 'we' like he was behind them against 'other governments'
he obviously does NOT use FB, twitter and youtube or look out of the window!
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
The sycophant who wrote the speach needs hanging
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Thousands are going to the palace - you could see that coming.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Can't wait to see what happens tomorrow. I'm just stunned. Can't imagine what he could be thinking if he thought this would go over well??!!!!
Gonna make us all crazy in the meantime!
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Thousands are going to the palace - you could see that coming.
That might be a blood bath! I really hope not, it all depends on the army now and unfortunately they haven't delivered so far. They are either timid or possibly respectful of him and his past (militarily).
I'm so depressed, disapointed, fearful, worried. Rabena yostor
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
The Alex crowd is now on it's way to the military base there demanding they remove him....all I can forsee is more bloodshed. I am speechless and very scared for this country at this point. I don't think these ppl can remain peaceful any longer.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
But the military said he had to go. The PM said so didn't he? Someone in the cabinet did. I'm wondering if he does actually want to get lynched - go out a hero. He said something about him being Egypt and Egypt was him and without it he might as well be dead?
Crazy.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: What powers?
not decided yet, at least not in this speach. So what was all this army stuff about. Are they still in session as they said/ What's their next move? Was that with their approval? Was the speach live btw?
How about the protestors? What's the next move?
I am HUGELY disapointed
Good questions. Was this an effort to deflate the pro-democracy movement? The Army as the wildcard and always has been, buy really it is not a wildcard, reports this week were coming out of their 'torture' of civilians.
Was this speech a message from the military to the people, the army said ALL demands of the people would be addressed.
The Main Demand is:
1.- Mubarak resign
As for the pro-democracy protesters – their demands aren't met, simple as that. It is only natural to assume they will be relentless.
What worries me is the Army stance. This is dangerous.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Do you think the army are making the protestors go and remove him themselves? I mean, tonight they've said they're behind the people. They're not going to turn on them, surely to God?
Posted by Supercalafragalistic (Member # 15631) on :
so stubborn and its like he wants to take Egypt down with him
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
My fellow countrymen. I am talking to you, the youth of Tahrir Square. A speech from a father to his children. I take pride in you calling for a change for the better. I tell you before anything all those who fell their blood will not go down the drain. I will hold accountable those who attacked our youth. I address the families of those innocent victims — I felt their pain. My resposne to your voice and your demands is a commitment that cannot be waived. I am determimned to fulfill all the promises. I am totally keen (!) on this. It is important to admit mistakes and rectify them . I cannot find any embarrassment at all in listening to the youth and learning from you, but I cannot and will not be dfictated [to] from outside. I announced in very plain words that will not run for president again. For over 60 years I served and Iwill continue to serve my contry. There will be elections in september. I have laid down a vision to exit the current crisis and to realize the demands of the youth without undermining the constitution. Laying down a framework for a peaceful transition to power. I laid down a framework for taking the country from this crisis. I am looking forward to your support [good luck with that one, Mubby!]. We have had a constructive national dialogue. This dialogue has yeielded a preliminary agreement. Therefore we have laid our foot on the right path. This will go day by day, until next september.
blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Two committees will be formed of independent impartial egyptians. Once stability and security is restored, emergency law will be cancelled. restore confidence among all egyptians. We cannot tolerate for these circumstances to continue. It will end with a situation where the youth will be the first victims. it is not relating to me, it is now relating to egypt, we are all in the same trench. we need a friendly atmosphere [yeah, right!]. we need to restore confidence and peace to our economy and streets. I have been a youth just like you. I exhausted my life defending the homeland. I lived thru the days of occupation.
blah blah patriotic drivel.
I was a pilot. I never relented under foreign pressures. I never sought false power or popularity [you can say that again!]. I feel pain in my heart from what I hear from some of my countrymen [poor Mubby! Nobody loves him!], we must put th ehomeland first. I am delegating power to the vice president according to the constitution. We will not allow others to gloat over us. We are not a satellite state. we don’t take orders from others. We will prove all this.
blah blah blah blah.
Egypt is eternal. I have lived for this nation, safeguard my responsiblity, egypt will live on above all persons, I will not leave this country until I am dead and buried in its soil. May god save Egypt.
My favorite line: “I feel your pain.”
Most significant line: “I will not leave this country until I am dead and buried in its soil.”
That, I’m sure, can be easily arranged …
The crowd in Tahrir Square — and similar crowds in Alexandria, Suez, and elsewhere — is furious. Get ready for a major explosion….
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Do you think the army are making the protestors go and remove him themselves? I mean, tonight they've said they're behind the people. They're not going to turn on them, surely to God?
Don't know. Too much deception. Mubarak wasn't just delusional he was also defiant, and a leader can only have that confidence is with some major backing, military.
He didn't sound scared, he sounded like he was in control.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Sulieman's coming on soon. You wait all that time for one president to talk, then all at two come at once.
I like that bloke even less.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
and AJ said Sowliman will also speak tonight? How much more do they think ppl can handle??? Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Mixed messages coming from govt. all day- which is unusual and a first. I dont get it. Theories???
It really seems like something shifted at the last minute in my opinion. As if different speeches were taped earlier and everyone expected the other speech to be aired
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Mixed messages coming from govt. all day- which is unusual and a first. I dont get it. Theories???
It really seems like something shifted at the last minute in my opinion. As if different speeches were taped earlier and everyone expected the other speech to be aired
the resignation message didn't come from the government as far as I remember, but from the NDP. After the cronies left the NDP (Ez, ElSherif, Gamal, etc), the ones left (Badrawi et al) are not that close to the president, as far as I know.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Gah, no interpreter for the VP's speech!
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Do you think the army are making the protestors go and remove him themselves? I mean, tonight they've said they're behind the people. They're not going to turn on them, surely to God?
Don't know. Too much deception. Mubarak wasn't just delusional he was also defiant, and a leader can only have that confidence is with some major backing, military.
He didn't sound scared, he sounded like he was in control.
Well with reports the Marines are coming in and how many warships parked off shore now, you know underhanded crap has been going on.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Do you think Saudi bunged him some money? America's damned for supporting him, damned for supporting democracy. Just damned basically.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Gah, no interpreter for the VP's speech!
There is on BBC. Just think of every empty promise you can imagine. Nothing tangible whatsoever, apart from they're staying put.
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
It appears that certain groups in Egypt still cling to the notion some people are born to build pyramids while others rise to pharaoh and stay there.
Democracy belongs to those who hold fast and yell the loudest, people.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Gah, no interpreter for the VP's speech!
he's saying go back home and to work and don't listen to the satellite stations.
total freakin' tool.
It's 25 degrees farenheit outside and my husband just went for a walk. He's spittin' fire and speaking in arabic to me even.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
The army are meant to be making a statement in a bit...
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Gah, no interpreter for the VP's speech!
he's saying go back home and to work and don't listen to the satellite stations.
total freakin' tool.
It's 25 degrees farenheit outside and my husband just went for a walk. He's spittin' fire and speaking in arabic to me even.
Remind me again, which planet is he on?!!
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
lol, guy on AJE just called the VP the vice torturer. Funny and not... *sigh*
Buckle in people!!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Said some people are getting texts from the army saying they're monitoring the situation and will decide what to do in due course
They're saying since the speech more tanks have arrived in the square.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
It seems both speeches were intentionally insulting to every Egyptian, so military now has an excuse to intervene as ppl go crazy.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
"The Egyptian military has secretly detained hundreds and possibly thousands of suspected government opponents since mass protests against President Hosni Mubarak began, and at least some of these detainees have been tortured, according to testimony gathered by the Guardian.
The military has claimed to be neutral, merely keeping anti-Mubarak protesters and loyalists apart. But human rights campaigners say this is clearly no longer the case, accusing the army of involvement in both disappearances and torture – abuses Egyptians have for years associated with the notorious state security intelligence (SSI) but not the army.[..]
They are marked men without power and one by one they will be hunted down in Egypt and internationally. They have their entire livelihoods at stake. This includes everyone from Hosni Mubarak to Habib Adly to Omar Suleiman to Aboul Gheit (FM) to obviously Tantawi (defense minister), anyone associated with NDP. Men who have been best friends for 30 years and who ran Egypt the way they liked. Now the people want democracy and the USA is echoing that. These criminals know what their fate will be.
Thing is the NDP won't be like ordinary politicians who end their terms and retire, maybe publish memoirs. They need to stay in power for self preservation. This makes them desperate and very dangerous.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
A protestor said that some are going on to the palace, and some are going home saying tommorow.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
"1615: Hossam Badrawi, the secretary-general of Mr Mubarak's party, reiterates to the BBC that he wants to see Mr Mubarak step aside, and says that is the position of the whole of the party."
I guess he didn't say when. What's this - the Ministry of Misinformation?
He had us all going though. Oh he is a one.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Leave! Leave! Fury of millions as Mubarak defies his nation and says he is NOT going to quit immediately
After all the buildup about this speech, and even a Twitter account dedicated to speculating on reasons why it started late, Mubarak said what he's been saying all along: he's not going anywhere. Via the translator on CNN's feed of the video, he did mention delegating some powers to Suleiman, the vice president, and has clearly made a deal with the military for now.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
I guess Tiger's e mail to Mubarak regarding the possible disruption of her holiday was not enough for him to stand down Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Maybe it is about amnesty. Mubarak should be concerned for not only his own welfare but also his children and their assets. The same applies to members like Badrawi and other top regime proponents. They want amnesty and also for their families. Many I assume want to relocate their families to other nations, along with healthy bank deposits. I imagine it is very complicated, but money and freedom is very important to everyone including fugitive traitors.
These are not honorable men. They want to twist the arms of international community in order to gain amnesty. Thing is what kind of relationship will a new Egypt have with any country that harbors fugitive NDP.
Just my 2 cents. But something strange happened today.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: I guess Tiger's e mail to Mubarak regarding the possible disruption of her holiday was not enough for him to stand down
Well I managed to get a bath already, but boy if I was still waiting, I'd be having some stern words myself, I can tell you Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
My last reply, actually last 2 replies were in reply to ExpinCai - any theories post. Something strange did occur today. Reluctance.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
It was supposed to be a live speech! No way was that live, he was well out of the way when the speech was broadcast Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
They're repeating it now. Egomaniac or what?
Where's it all going to end?
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
vwwvv , Are you EGYPTIAN who have ever lived in Egypt?
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Yerhal.Yerhal.
He goes!!!!!!!
No. "Irhal!" – Go!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: He goes!!!!!!!
No. "Irhal!" – Go!
my bad dalia, take it you were there, good for you. Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
I have watched Mubarak speech.
I think It is balanced speech. Mubarak is leaving soon but He should not Quit immediately.He will quit step by step for the favour Of Egypt.
All protesters should go home NOW
NOW is NOW.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: A protestor said that some are going on to the palace, and some are going home saying tommorow.
I wonder if they go to the Palace someone would pop into my house to see nothing in my fridge is mutating...
Dominique Asquith... cock! (change of subject)
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
@ Tareq: Not yesterday?
@ Cheeky: Hmmm. Trip to the palace or investigate your fridge. Lord knows what might have sprouted up in there by now. That's a toughie - I think it would take some balls to do either TBH. I don't think I could call it.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: my bad dalia, take it you were there, good for you.
Actually, I found it very odd to be in the midst of a chanting crowd and seeing it on television at the same time.
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Anyone just get a sms from the Armed Forces? What does it say (hubby is having a hard time with eyesight today)?
Could it have to do with this?
quote: 9.51pm GMT: This is interesting: the BBC's Paul Adams reports that people in Cairo are receiving text messages from the high council of the army, saying that it is monitoring how events unfold and will decide how to act.
The Whitehouse are supposed to be issuing a statement soon.
I saw William Hague earlier, but he just tutted.
Posted by organician (Member # 16386) on :
The only reason HB is reluctant to leave is that he and his cronies need time to cover up their human rights atrocities, enormous financial theft from all the citizens of Egypt and to work out, if possible, where he can go?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I hear Saudi's nice this time of year.
Shame about the house in Beverley Hills and flats in Manhatton though. Not sure he'll be welcome anymore.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
Maybe it's because if he did indeed step down it would have been technically a "coup" and in that case no money from the US? Which unfortunately means our people are just as stupid as Hosni?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Enemies of the People - Amn Al-Dawla (State Security Intelligence SSI)
They have always been successful because they extract individuals from society. An example is kidnapping an Egyptian from the street and torturing him/her. That is highly effective. It is a technique that shuts people up, often by death, as a heavy handed thabiit(rank officer) doesn't know how delicate a human being's head is.
This method is not sustainable against the masses, individuals yes, masses no. Amn-Al-dowla can not torture all of society. They drive in malaky cars, of all kinds, but like other thubat (police), look out for Peugeots , they operate very similar to police as well, they have thugs that abduct, and also to beat ppl up. They have access to online accounts. They have a division that monitors certain websites as well as certain keywords in both arabic and english … e.g. mubarak, hosni, masr, egypt, etc
They usually avoid foreigners. But they rarely recognize dual nationality, case in point the secular professor I named earlier in this thread. Walk in large groups when walking to demonstrations. If you want to know the capability of their brute force the minimum is 4 very physical men. Their primary goal is to protect the regime. Keep that in mind. I know no one here will face these monsters, but some more info about these monsters.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Metinoot told me. Where is Tootie Fruitie? Awful quiet, it is.
Never stated that, if you feel that way repost the post in which you felt I had stated that.
No she's a dane and had been on the warpath since her Gulf Arab lover left her and she gave up Islam.
MK used to be a member here and once or twice cornered VWWVVV for her abusive remarks.
VWWWVVV broke down and stated after a lengthy immigration process her Arab lover left her and her target was "Islam" to work through the pain.
Well its over 7 years later and she's still wound up.
Posted by Dilemma (Member # 16672) on :
I believe this explains why he is defiant
matching U.S. military aid to Egypt February 9th, 2011 05:16 PM ET
To alleviate U.S. pressure on the Egyptian army, Saudi Arabia would consider matching the estimated $1.5 billion the United States provides Egypt in military aid each year if Washington decides to cut its aid to the troubled North African nation, an Arab diplomat says.
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Metinoot told me. Where is Tootie Fruitie? Awful quiet, it is.
Never stated that, if you feel that way repost the post in which you felt I had stated that.
No she's a dane and had been on the warpath since her Gulf Arab lover left her and she gave up Islam.
MK used to be a member here and once or twice cornered VWWVVV for her abusive remarks.
VWWWVVV broke down and stated after a lengthy immigration process her Arab lover left her and her target was "Islam" to work through the pain.
Well its over 7 years later and she's still wound up.
Gulf Arab lover must've been damn good! Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: The Whitehouse are supposed to be issuing a statement soon.
I saw William Hague earlier, but he just tutted.
They tutted before but this guy is deaf and blind and being told the protestors are there to protest about US telling him to go!
That speech was unreal, sureal, like it was about something totally different, like he had no grip on what IS happening at all. Some are on about not humiliating him but ffs he's been globally humiliated for nearly 3 weeks now, thick skinned, delusional, more words I can't think of! He spoke like he was with them, part of them and together they would reject other govt involvement!
I can't do this today, going to overdose on panadol as this headache just wont shift Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Since Egyptians are known for their sence of humor, what's the funniest mubarak joke you've heard so far?
My fave was this retweet: Damn girl, you've got a Mubarak. (an ass that won't quit)
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Metinoot told me. Where is Tootie Fruitie? Awful quiet, it is.
Never stated that, if you feel that way repost the post in which you felt I had stated that.
No she's a dane and had been on the warpath since her Gulf Arab lover left her and she gave up Islam.
MK used to be a member here and once or twice cornered VWWVVV for her abusive remarks.
VWWWVVV broke down and stated after a lengthy immigration process her Arab lover left her and her target was "Islam" to work through the pain.
Well its over 7 years later and she's still wound up.
Huh? I'm not going though 42 pages, but I believe someone said vwwvv was a man, and I merely stated that you said in an earlier thread that she's a woman. Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Any thoughts on the children that are camped out in Tahrir Sq.? Personally, it would be the last place in the world I would be taking small children.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
@Exptin, I think the funniest one I saw was a tweet from a phony Mubarak twitter page:
HosniMobarak: Habib just sent me a bbm. He says I should prepare a farewell speech for my citizens. Where are you guys going? #jan25
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Since Egyptians are known for their sence of humor, what's the funniest mubarak joke you've heard so far?
My fave was this retweet: Damn girl, you've got a Mubarak. (an ass that won't quit)
There have been several jokes around,since as we all know Egyptian sense of humor is present even during a revolution.I read this some days ago. Is not a copy and paste,so excuse me if i miss something. After Mubarak finally passed away,and while walking around in the after life he suddenly bumps with other Egyptian presidents Nasser and Sadat.Anxious to know,he quickly asks them...so how did you get here,was it poison or gunfire? To which Mubarak replies..nope,Facebook.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Since Egyptians are known for their sence of humor, what's the funniest mubarak joke you've heard so far?
My fave was this retweet: Damn girl, you've got a Mubarak. (an ass that won't quit)
There have been several jokes around,since as we all know Egyptian sense of humor is present even during a revolution.I read this some days ago. Is not a copy and paste,so excuse me if i miss something. After Mubarak finally passed away,and while walking around in the after life he suddenly bumps with other Egyptian presidents Nasser and Sadat.Anxious to know,he quickly asks them...so how did you get here,was it poison or gunfire? To which Mubarak replies..nope,Facebook.
ROFL
The weirdest thing I have found for me is watching these political talks and news and hearing Facebook and Twitter dropped in!
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
Never had such quiet out here in Menoufeya as tonight. Everyone sleeping out before today's "long day"? While the town was like "hornet's nest" last morning. The approaching week-end coinciding perhaps with that many had a beginning of month payday when the banks resumed, and had not been out shopping much lately, coinciding the local market day. Hubby said cars were going in any imaginable directions to get through the traffic.
Afternoon was quite ordinary though, and quiet. We drove in to get some blankets for kids in an effort to make them like their beds more than ours . Don't you have a TV, hubby asked the matron keeping the shop that we frequent (she has good taste and always the best of Egyptian cotton products). TV? Why? Well, the President is about to step down. Aa.. The response could not have been more indifferent, even next day's rain is of more interest in this country. And true, that perhaps in the life of that rather well off matron quietly leading her life in a second-rate small town, rarely perhaps even watching foreign news, nothing changes, whatever the president or the regime. As long at least as there is market economy and some money around (and there is!).
But most were still a little bit disappointed, seems to me that if after last week's speech most were thinking the demonstrators are too stubborn, now people were kind of expecting the pres to step done. I was betting Cairo would have started partying the second after and all would have been over, am a bit naive perhaps though.
Now it continues and I noticed the vice who had until now been entirely relaxed and almost kind-sounding, in today's coverage came over kind of exactly like those old-time hard-liners whom one expected to oust out. Kind of stale and all enthusiasm gone. Kind of fed up. Just speculating, though.
My own main fright is - I hope the US would not come in! At least the Egyptian army is own army but if foreigners come in, what that might cause! Total fighting in the whole country, then already "against the foreigners".
Pres indeed I think wanted to make a point that the foreign states are the culprits in that he would not step down. Do not know if it is pushing it off simply, but I had the same constant feeling, and I am not even an Egyptian - what business did other countries have with what Egypt is doing, especially as no one seemed to understand anything about Egyptians or even the exact situation and emotions here beyond Tahrir. And every time one has tried to "bring democracy" from outside, they have seriously messed it up, indeed I think making more harm than good.
So I hope they keep their distance. But we do not know what numerous talks and persuasions may have gone on behind the set and Egyptians are proud men, or what.
Another thought here: even hubby said, quite independently from my thoughts, that most of those protesters looked like they were from Mohandeseen. The rich kids, you know. Carrying mobiles, quite a few laptops lying around in the square etc. And I already described who the initiator is. Journalists back at home are asking what role testosterone might have played in the demonstrations, I ask what role someone's ambitions play.
But they seem to have set up a party, the 25th January party, now that would be a positive outcome if the fighting changed into a more democratic form of a party movement. New rules are not created by fighting, they need to be worked on, agreed, and also viewpoints of other countrymen noted and cared for.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Another thought here: even hubby said, quite independently from my thoughts, that most of those protesters looked like they were from Mohandeseen. The rich kids, you know. Carrying mobiles, quite a few laptops lying around in the square etc.
Maybe hubby should come down to the square and take a proper look. The majority of protestors don't look as if they are from Mohandesseen. They are NOT all young people, and they are not all from rich families. There are people of all ages, many older people, a huge number of working class people, lower middle class people, families and so on.
Even BBC commented on this fact, and I would assume so have other news stations. So how anyone can still claim this is just a revolt of some upper class youths is completely beyond me.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Helicopters are on the move from Almazaa and Orouba is running smoothly both ways.
Also, bars in Ma'adi will be open till 10pm tonight.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
DeNile flows through Menoufeya.
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
I would differentiate between the initiating crowds and those who came along. Along came all kinds of dissatisfied people, sure, but the Facebook crowds who spend their days in Internet, they are the "mohandeseen".
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Oh I have read it all now.. they look like they are from Mohandiseen as they are rich with mobiles!!!
Does hubby ever venture out of cloud cuckoo land?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: I would differentiate between the initiating crowds and those who came along. Along came all kinds of dissatisfied people, sure, but the Facebook crowds who spend their days in Internet, they are the "mohandeseen".
You obviously have a computer and I assume you and hubby both have a mobile phone yet you are not from Mohandeseen are you?
Seriously blinkered.
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
Super insights from "The Economist", I totally missed it when it was published last summer:
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: I would differentiate between the initiating crowds and those who came along.
But you didn't. You wrote "most of the protestors", thus referring to the group protesting in Tahrir right now.
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: But you didn't. You wrote "most of the protestors", thus referring to the group protesting in Tahrir right now.
OK, correct me then .
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Egypt's constitution is the subject of much discussion and debate for two reasons. First, the opposition says the constitution is fatally flawed and is demanding key amendments. And second, it sets out the procedures for any transfer of power, should President Hosni Mubarak step down, as the protesters are demanding.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
AJE: tv journalist are giving up their jobs and walking out because they don't want to be part of the propaganda.
Programs are off tv because no one can get in or out of the tv station.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
What's the situation now, can somebody tell us please. I believe the army showed complete lack of leadership. They didn't live up to the enormity of the situation. You would've expected them in their meeting yesterday to go through all the possible scenarios and formulate their corresponnding response. Meaning If HM says this and the people react as such then our response will be so, etc. But it doesn't seem they've done that. They seem to have been taken by surprise given that they had to have another meeting after his speach to consider and look into, blah blah blah. After all their deliberation they came out with a statement that indicates that they too, like Mubarak, are completely detached from reality.
It was said on the BBC that Tantawi, the head of the army is 80 years old (although I seriously doubt that you can serve in the army till such a late age). My point is, that like his president, he lives in another time. I heard that some of the younger officers are not happy. Maybe a mutiny within the army is the way forward, a bit like the "free officers" of 1952. I personally wouldn't like this scenario because it may involve army personel killing army personel. How can we trust such people, who lack any vision, strategy or even thinking methodology, how can we trust them to defend the coutry from external threats. Lord have mercy.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Cheeky are you back??? Or someone was just letting you know?
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Cheeky are you back??? Or someone was just letting you know?
I am in regular contact with people in my area so I can assess the situation realistically.
I hear that that the Oruba / Mirghany cross over is strewn with barbed wire in anticipation of the protesters marching and I have found out that the trams are not running and that flowers are growing on the tram.
There are still umpteen tanks around too...
Life is hardly back to normal seeing as aside from the intensity of the security the curfew is being taken very seriously in the Presidential zone!
I am still booked in on the 20th Feb... I wish the dude would go so I can go back to work!
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Some people say that Mubarak left the country today. (source: Twitter) Dunno if it's a rumor or not - waiting for confirmation.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
camanpour Christiane Amanpour by waelabbas Senior egyptian official tells me Mubarak has left Cairo. Remains in Egypt as figurehead Prez. He left last night after speech to nation 5 minutes ago http://twitter.com/#!/camanpour
waelabbas Wael Abbas مبارك غادر قصره الساعة 10 الصبح : مؤكد !!! 20 minutes ago http://twitter.com/#!/waelabbas Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Some people say that Mubarak left the country today. (source: Twitter) Dunno if it's a rumor or not - waiting for confirmation.
Are those the same people who said he was resigning yesterday, or who talked about police dogs being prepared for attacking the protestors on the 28th, or that the army is preparing for a coup, or, or, ..
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Mubarak reminds me of the old joke:
What's the difference between a Jewish mother and a rotweiller?
The rotweiller eventually lets go Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Mubarak perhaps went to Sharm El Sheikh.
It would make sense cause he wants to avoid the protesters and it's a long way from Cairo to Sharm besides that the area is heavily secured by the military.
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: camanpour Christiane Amanpour by waelabbas Senior egyptian official tells me Mubarak has left Cairo. Remains in Egypt as figurehead Prez. He left last night after speech to nation 5 minutes ago http://twitter.com/#!/camanpour
so was last night or this morning 10am? Can't you see the contradiction. I think Mubarak is sitting at his computer tweeting to wind us all up Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
What's the difference? Fact is that he obviously left his Heliopolis residence after transfering powers to his VP and took refuge in his winter home far away from the crowds (well the latter is not yet confirmed).
About 5,000 are protesting now on the street leading to the Presidential Palace, in front of Heliopolis Club main gate. #jan25 31 seconds ago http://twitter.com/#!/DailyNewsEgypt Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: Mubarak reminds me of the old joke:
What's the difference between a Jewish mother and a rotweiller?
The rotweiller eventually lets go
We used to say what is the difference between a Rotty and a Social Worker... you can get your kids back out the grasp of a rotty!!!
So no one knows where Mubarek is, and no one knows anything factual. ACE... ES is is back to normal Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Yeah this is a very reliable source. Looks like he's really really gone!!!!!!!!
Stay tuned...
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi Breaking Al Jazeera Arabic: Sources say that Mubarak has left for the UAE (Al Jazeera Arabic link to tweet http://bit.ly/h5dz7o) 2 minutes ago http://twitter.com/#!/SultanAlQassemi
Yeah this is a very reliable source. Looks like he's really really gone!!!!!!!!
Stay tuned...
So he's in Sharm and in UAE, you know what? He's been sighted on the moon as well, an American spaceship just reported it. But the truth is he's sitting right here next to me tapping on his computer. I'm gonna tweet that to the world, see how reliable twitter is!
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Has he got a job with Elvis, flipping burgers in a mobile diner up a mountain in Montana?
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Maybe he really *is* Elvis! When Elvis "died", he re-incarnated into the prez, whose health was failing at the time. Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
*sigh*, obviously the sleep I got last night didn't do me much good as I'm still silly tired. lol Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Heard from my aunt who lives next to the palace that the protesters are "very chic". Freakin heliopolis. http://twitter.com/sandmonkey
heliopolis is the new mohandessin :-)
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I just put state tv on to see what they're showing. Split screening between Alex and Heliopolis (masbeeroo - where's that?) I think but not 100% sure. Nilesat 24. Don't know if you can get it live online anywhere?
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I just put state tv on to see what they're showing. Split screening between Alex and Heliopolis (masbeeroo - where's that?) I think but not 100% sure. Nilesat 24. Don't know if you can get it live online anywhere?
Maspero is the name given to the national broadcast and TV building in Cairo city centre. But to the best of my knowledge, Maspero himself is a French Egyptologist/archiologist who did some great work in that field. I think he might be the one who established the Egyptian museum in Tahrir. If I remember correctly there's a bust of him in the entrance of the museum, or at least was there some time in the past.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
I have heard that the guys outside the Palace at the mo are from Shubra and Korba...
'Twitter is reliable'... now that is a great oxymoron.
Hi ****** - I think you did the right thing staying in the UK just now, god only knows what will happen here now - I know of teachers that were arrested walking (during the day) in Maadi and accused of spying for Israel and another that went out for some cigs just before curfew and the next day the police arrived at his apartment to interrogate him and his family - it doesn't feel safe to leave the house just now, not just from fear of being arrested but even from fear of being attacked by the local people, the same ones who used to welcome us so much, because they have been fed so many lies on state TV
This is an email I was just copied into informing myself and other 'runners (as some patronising martyrs are calling us who left) some stories of what folk are currently experiencing.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Have to say I'm a bit wary at this point of leaving the apartment myself. I'm sure it would probably be fine but my mind has this niggling "what if"...
Thought perhaps it might be a good time to take up wearing niqab. Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Oh and in contrast, I have heard from a few of the teachers who haven't already started back but are due to go in on Sunday, they have stated that their flights have a few expats on them returning, the airport is running smoothly and that tanks in their districts of Cairo have now gone.
Good and bad news Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
They're saying that an important statement from the presidency may be announced shortly.
How long does that give us? Do you think there's time for a quick shopping trip while we're waiting? To Paris, maybe?
EDIT: I didn't hear that on Twitter though so it probably isn't true.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
ooo another one from my FB just in:
Just been to the mergani bridge over the oruba ....1-2000 people ..all very middle class with their kids waving flags at the barricade....most of the neighbourhood seems on the way ...its carnival like .....
The dude who wrote this you may have heard on Radio 5 and the such as he appears to have been selected as the voice for Expats in Cairo for radio! (random man who answered a random phone!!!)
Shame he doesn't Shwitter... he is on the ball and so much a realist who just says it as it is and doesn't over or under dramatise owt Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Does anyone remember which Twits were making up the 'the tanks are coming oh god they're murdering us all' twits last Thursday night before the Friday demonstration? Or have all those guys n gals vanished now? Where they sick pranksters or did they have a motive to deter demonstrators?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I can't remember - it'll be somewhere on this thread, posted by me Shameful.
Well, I didn't know. You learn by your mistakes.
I didn't see them saying they're murdering us all, but folks panicking because security was beefed up and there were no press in the square.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: Have to say I'm a bit wary at this point of leaving the apartment myself. I'm sure it would probably be fine but my mind has this niggling "what if"...
Thought perhaps it might be a good time to take up wearing niqab.
I'll feel normal the day I get a microbus again! I must do it soon.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Been at presidential palace protest outside entrance to Heliopolis Club, were about 10,000, took a break to have lunch with MIL, very conveniently lives nearby, heard huge crowds moving up Mirghani towards the gathering, very loud chants as they moved, will join again in a bit.
There are some gathering on Orouba side, the area in front of the palace and HB's house blocked by military barbed wire and tanks.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Urgent and important statement, they said on BBC.
Maybe he left his sun block behind, so he wants them all to form an orderly queue and pass it down to Sharm.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
A friend just posted that apparently the army are handing out food to the demonstrators in Tahrir.
I am seeing Egyptians along all the edges and on all the nodes of a very big polygon - not on two sides.
I am seeing Egyptians from the same social classes expressing very different opinions.
I'm seeing Egyptians very very proud of the demonstrators, but thinking what they wanted has been delivered.
I'm even seeing Egyptians from the same bit of geography beginning with M with totally different views
Husbands and wives who have different ideas.
And I'm seeing quite a few irreverent videos and images.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I can't remember - it'll be somewhere on this thread, posted by me Shameful.
Well, I didn't know. You learn by your mistakes.
I didn't see them saying they're murdering us all, but folks panicking because security was beefed up and there were no press in the square.
No habibty, I saw them on tv too.... more to the point to learn the names of the twits incase they're still twitting.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Oh, gawd... 43 pages... I'm not sure I can face it, not to mention the shame of quoting them all Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Just wait for sonomod, she'll dig them up for you. :-)
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Vwwvv - might I ask - where are you from?
She's Danish, and she's been on this forum with over 15 different usernames since 2004...
Page 26 of this thread. I don't make things up you know Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
According to AJE they've gone to Sharm.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
All those are still twitting so I don't think it was them. I know I saw tweets on TV maybe they never got posted on here.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
They're saying with some certainty he's gone to Sharm on the BBC.
Mind you, they were saying with some certainty he was going yesterday.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
AJE is stating that he has arrived in Sharm.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Maybe he just wanted to stick two fingers up (shoes, whatever) at the Americans before he went?
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
I heard on AJE that his plane arrived in Sharm. Not actually confirming anyone has seen him in it.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
William Hague is tutting again.
Someone's posted on FB that the HM is going to make another speech.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: Been at presidential palace protest outside entrance to Heliopolis Club, were about 10,000, took a break to have lunch with MIL, very conveniently lives nearby, heard huge crowds moving up Mirghani towards the gathering, very loud chants as they moved, will join again in a bit.
There are some gathering on Orouba side, the area in front of the palace and HB's house blocked by military barbed wire and tanks.
Kinda wish I was there now!!!
Citizen... can you pop up to my apartment and check the door is still on its hinges.
Anyone else find it ironic that some protesters hate the west, hate the media and the journalists etc then write all their protest signs in Arabic for the western world to read.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
He could tut for England Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Do you mean English (That was to CF's post above yours Monkey)
Kinda reminds me of those folk who think we should all go back and live ala 6th Century AD (CE) except of course for mobile phones, internet and videos.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Badrawi says Mubarak's going to resign. Doesn't say when though (BBC).
Also says Badrawi is resigning from the party himself (Twitter) + (BBC).
Do you think the BBC read Twitter?
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Do you mean English (That was to CF's post above yours Monkey)
I swear I cannot multi-task!!! Yes, I meant English
ffs lol
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Badrawi says Mubarak's going to resign. Doesn't say when though (BBC).
Also says Badrawi is resigning from the party himself (Twitter) + (BBC).
Do you think the BBC read Twitter?
Not sure this has any significance really. He's not one of the top guns of the regime. It seems he's preparing himself for the day after. The biatch who was interviewing Wael Ghoneim was bigging Badrawi up, as if he's one of the honest people in the NDP. I don't know much about him, but as far as I'm concerned he's just another piece of sh*t. An honest person does not associate himself with corrupt people, no matter what.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Yeah, I remember in the interview Wael Ghonim said what a nice guy he was and how he could respect him if he resigns. Now the ships going down. Maybe he sees Wael Ghonim as his lifeboat?
I don't trust him either.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Hallelujah!!!!!
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
People shooting off guns her elike crazy and whistling. what did i miss??
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Hosni's gone!
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Yeah - I missed the speech kipping but woke up to gunfire!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Be just his luck to get eaten by a shark next. They must be hungry by now Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
hope they replay the speech now! Darn it to heck - darn you CF for saying I had time to slip into a coma Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Crap, we're stuck with the VP. Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
it was about 30 seconds, lol "State TV says Mr Mubarak has handed over responsibility for running the nation's affairs to the higher military council."
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Dancin' in the streets. SOmeone should make an Egyptian version
Callin' out around the world Are you ready for a brand new beat? Summer's here and the time is right For dancin' in the streets They're dancin' in Chicago Down in New Orleans Up in New York City
All we need is music, sweet music There'll be music everywhere There'll be swingin', swayin' and records playin' And dancin' in the streets
Oh, it doesn't matter what you wear Just as long as you are there So come on, every guy grab a girl Everywhere around the world There'll be dancin' They're dancin' in the street
This is an invitation Across the nation A chance for the folks to meet There'll be laughin' and singin' and music swingin' And dancin' in the streets
Philadelphia, P.A. (Philadelphia, P.A.) Baltimore and DC now (Baltimore and DC now) Yeah don't forget the Motor City (can't forget the Motor City)
All we need is music, sweet music There'll be music everywhere There'll be swingin', swayin' and records playin' And dancin' in the street, yeah
Oh, it doesn't matter what you wear Just as long as you are there So come on, every guy grasp a girl Everywhere around the world There'll be dancin' They're dancin' in the streets
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Wow, so happy!!!!
Though I could do without all the continuing gunfire. lol
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: Yeah - I missed the speech kipping but woke up to gunfire!
Missed it too missed the most important moment in Egypt's recent history. Is there a youtube clip of it, I should expect so. If anybody knows, please post the link. Congratulation Egypt Congratulation world, one less dictator
Mabrouk bedoon Mubarak
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I don't think there was a speech! ExpatinCai said just 30 seconds.
Looks like the folk on facebook who started a collection to buy Hosni a new watch last night succeeded Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
85 MILLION MABROUK TO EGYPT !!! Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
translation from bbc (in full, it was THAT short)
In the name of God the merciful, the compassionate, citizens, during these very difficult circumstances Egypt is going through, President Hosni Mubarak has decided to step down from the office of president of the republic and has charged the high council of the armed forces to administer the affairs of the country," he said.
"May God help everybody
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Cheeky, come home now! Posted by Ford Prefect (not perfect) (Member # 9338) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I don't think there was a speech! ExpatinCai said just 30 seconds.
Looks like the folk on facebook who started a collection to buy Hosni a new watch last night succeeded
ROFL Imagine if everyone knew this on day one, the guy just wanted a watch all this time haha
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
It seems that the Tunisia-Egypt bug has spread to Baghdad, where some 3,000 people marched through a Sunni neighborhood protesting against the corruption and incompetence of the Maliki government:
Reports suggest that today’s protests were entirely peaceful, and that smaller protests had been held in Basra and Mosul. Officials have insisted Iraq is a very different situation from those in Tunisia and Egypt, but of course such claims have been made in other nations as protests have grown.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
written yesterday...relevant bit in bold....
I spent part of the morning in the square watching and photographing a group of young Egyptian students wearing plastic gloves taking garbage in both hands and neatly scooping it into black plastic bags to keep the area clean. This touched me in particular because more than once in this column I have quoted the aphorism that “in the history of the world no one has ever washed a rented car.” I used it to make the point that no one has ever washed a rented country either — and for the last century Arabs have just been renting their countries from kings, dictators and colonial powers. So, they had no desire to wash them.
Well, Egyptians have stopped renting, at least in Tahrir Square, where a sign hung Thursday said: “Tahrir — the only free place in Egypt.” So I went up to one of these young kids on garbage duty — Karim Turki, 23, who worked in a skin-care shop — and asked him: “Why did you volunteer for this?” He couldn’t get the words out in broken English fast enough: “This is my earth. This is my country. This is my home. I will clean all Egypt when Mubarak will go out.” Ownership is a beautiful thing.
What is next, Egypt? Will life improve? Who will be the president? Is there a government there? we get a democracy? or a freedom? Where is the constitution?
Where is Egypt?
Posted by Ramses nemesis (Member # 4125) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: What is next, Egypt? Will life improve? Who will be the president? Is there a government there? we get a democracy? or a freedom? Where is the constitution?
Where is Egypt?
You have your chance to have your say now!
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Congratulations Egypt!!! Power to the people! Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: What is next, Egypt? Will life improve? Where is Egypt?
That's FINALLY up to YOU, Tareq. Make Egypt what you want it to be.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Oh, he took a hint then.
Really.... have people not ran out of links yet?
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
We have martial laws now.!!??
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: We have martial laws now.!!??
You may have laws in general... Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Oh, he took a hint then.
Really.... have people not ran out of links yet?
I am sick and tired of seeing the bs that you post it's all over ES, to me you are one of the most self-absorbed persons on ES, but, I don't go around ES saying how much your posts and your person annoys me. Also I see that other peoples' links do not 'annoy' you - just mine - well guess what because you are such a shitty character I am going to post links much more often than I do, only because you get on my nerves.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
what did I miss?
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: We have martial laws now.!!??
You may have laws in general...
You have been under martial law since 1981. Work on getting rid of it!
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Where's our illustrious member of the Cocktail Party - surely he hasn't missed it?
(Sorry couldn't resist)
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: We have martial laws now.!!??
No, but now instead of sitting around blaming the government for this and that, you have the opportunity to get off your butt and make your own better future.
Unless you're the type who likes to sit around and complain, talking about when it was so much better under baba Mubarak when you could just blame the government and not take any responsibility for bettering your country.
Posted by Dilemma (Member # 16672) on :
I'm with you Ayisha Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Oh, he took a hint then.
Really.... have people not ran out of links yet?
I am sick and tired of seeing the bs that you post it's all over ES, to me you are one of the most self-absorbed persons on ES, but, I don't go around ES saying how much your posts and your person annoys me. Also I see that other peoples' links do not 'annoy' you - just mine - well guess what because you are such a shitty character I am going to post links much more often than I do, only because you get on my nerves.
I guess now that we can freely be rude to each other, for the record, your posts annoy me and you get on my nerves.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Oh, he took a hint then.
Really.... have people not ran out of links yet?
I am sick and tired of seeing the bs that you post it's all over ES, to me you are one of the most self-absorbed persons on ES, but, I don't go around ES saying how much your posts and your person annoys me. Also I see that other peoples' links do not 'annoy' you - just mine - well guess what because you are such a shitty character I am going to post links much more often than I do, only because you get on my nerves.
another of your non copy pastes in perfect English when you claim you copy paste as your English is not good, yet every single time you don't copy paste your English is perfect yet it's always to be shitty to someone. Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
‘Peaceful, Peaceful’ by Lew Rockwell
That is the chant of the non-violent Egyptian resistance, as its members march on the Mubarak presidential palace, guarded by scared-looking young soldiers behind razor wire. The US media and State keep calling for the army to take over to prevent “chaos,” i.e., freedom. Yet what a model for all the world’s oppressed peoples these resisters are. They are showing us, once again, that non-violence can overcome the State and its armies and secret police, whereas returning violence for violence ends in massacre. Threats, torture, murder, beating, caging, these are the tools of the State. We, the opponents of the State, cannot possibly beat it at its own game, nor should we try. But with non-violence, we have a chance. Conscripted soldiers, break your weapons and go home to your families. Those you love need your hands and your brains, not your bullets.
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
Congratulations, Egyptians, you taught the world an incredible lesson -- peaceful protest can, indeed, change the world.
Blessings for moving forward - may the earnestness, pride and grace of the past few weeks continue and carry you forward.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
I will go pray al eisha prayer in the mosque then I will think what to do.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
I didn't Twitter it and therefore it clearly wasn't true
Camerons speech was so brief I missed it while popping for a pee!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I have to say what a cowardly leap, OR this isn't REAL.
WHY would he say last night he's not going then leave the country and leave Suleiman to tell everyone, has he REALLY stepped down or are they just saying that?
Was his tv and laptop in Sharm and he's only just seen what's really been happening?
Has Suleiman done him in and said he left?
Personally I think he left the country a while back.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Just to get up everyone's nose? Maybe the botox he had obviously had done yesterday kept him up a bit longer!
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
Oi, what are you currently-in-Egypt lot still doing behind your laptops? The Lebanese have already set out the fireworks in Beirut and are doing their bit starting the party. Yalla!
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
I have friends who theorise that Mubarak stepped down today as it is a memorable date!!!
I did question why last night he stated he would be staying and then stepped down the next day...
I can confirm that 2 choppers left Almazaa this morning, (as I posted few pgs back) as a friend of mine said they skimmed his roof! (We assumed Suzanne was going to the hairdressers as they didn't arrive in Tahrir).
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Exp, I don't think news has reached Luxor, cannot hear any celebrating or anything! Weird bloody lot here!
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
lol, too much gunfire for me to really want to venture out. Plus the horns honking are loud enough inside my apartment, thankyouverymuch!! Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Ayisha, is there a time difference Maybe you will find out in one hr... (joshin)
LO... I hope they don't celebrate for 18 days too lol...
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
Hope the Swiss gov. will freeze the loot those scumbags have smuggled out, we need to reclaim that dough ASAP.
We'll be facing years of reconstuction and God knows what'll happen to our economy. Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Just said on AJE Swiss are freezing the accounts.
Yes, it won't be easy - I figure you will go through something like what the UK went through in the Thatcher Years, transforming the place painfully and probably in hindsight necessarily.
(Totally NOT a Thatcher fan btw but that's another story).
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Ayisha, is there a time difference Maybe you will find out in one hr... (joshin)
LO... I hope they don't celebrate for 18 days too lol...
Oh bugger, time difference is about 10 years Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
I thought they were glued to the tv screens in the coffee shops down your way Ayisha?
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
Lets all go back to visit Egypt again!!!!!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I thought they were glued to the tv screens in the coffee shops down your way Ayisha?
yes they have been BUT you have to bear in mind they believed all the lies and just wanted things back to normal and tourists coming back. Most have no idea what a historic moment this is and are convinced that chaos will start now he's gone, just like he said. Very much like nevermind and her hubby mentality. Odd few were with it and vast majority agreed they wanted him gone but were concerned about their living today rather than their futures.
Think I will go out, see what I can find on the streets.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: Lets all go back to visit Egypt again!!!!!
yessssss come to Luxor!!! Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Finally! Sweet knowing I annoy people Now you know how I feel everytime I click on a thread and just see links!
What a COWARD you are!! You pick up on me only because you know I am disliked in this forum because of my views about Islam. Your "friends" often post long boring articles - but no rude comments there. I go out of my way to make it SHORT so that people like YOU can easily SKIP them, and you pick up on me out of all posters..COWARD is all I can say.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Yes, Ayisha. The makwa carefully explained to me a few days ago that the people hated the government but HM was a very good man. He's from a village up in the Delta guess it's similar.
(He can't read btw (Arabic) I tested him out a couple of times with a pizza menu and a bottle of furniture oil.)
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
LOL having a good laugh on that one. Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Finally! Sweet knowing I annoy people Now you know how I feel everytime I click on a thread and just see links!
What a COWARD you are!! You pick up on me only because you know I am disliked in this forum because of my views about Islam. Your "friends" often post long boring articles - but no rude comments there. I go out of my way to make it SHORT so that people like YOU can easily SKIP them, and you pick up on me out of all posters..COWARD is all I can say.
Actually my feelings towards people lacking their own opinions has been quite generic for three years but you seem to think in an egotistical manner that I am referring to you.
I don't care if you are liked or not ( I really don't spend all day here scouring everyone's words!!!) but if you feel so disliked by others then perhaps you should Google 'how to make friends and influence people' as opposed to throwing your toys out the pram like a child and hissy fitting at me.
Coward... yeah right! Said the one whining about being picked on! SASH... cue the rolly eyes!
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: DeNile flows through Menoufeya.
You'd be surprised how many second generation Cairnes have grandparents in Menoufia. Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
My ex after two weeks tentatively trying to curb my enthusiasm is happy Hosni is stepping down.
His main concern was that no more bloodshed and no more torturing of protesters. Now he can relax and enjoy the peace.
Posted by Dilemma (Member # 16672) on :
Congratulations to Egypt.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
"Actually my feelings towards people lacking their own opinions has been quite generic for three years but you seem to think in an egotistical manner that I am referring to you."
If you don't like what I post simply ignore me! Why bother click on my thread solely to make a snide remark? Does it make you feel 'witty' to put other people down? Apparently.
"I don't care if you are liked or not ( I really don't spend all day here scouring everyone's words!!!) but if you feel so disliked by others then perhaps you should Google 'how to make friends"
I am not interested in making "virtual" friends. I consider every polite poster in this forum a friend.
I have learned that it doesn't matter how politely you express yourself, some people just can't tolerate criticism of their religion. It's like you can't win. Btw, most of my posts criticize Militant and Political Islam. But anyway, it's not what Muslims believe that is bothering me, it is the intolerance of some posters here that I find disturbing, their personal attacks and bigotry. It is YOUR rudeness that now drives me to post more. I give you a promise, I'll do my best to increase my copy and paste inshallah.
One more thing. This forum is not only for "chit-chating" and gossiping. You find my posts "boring", but this forum is also for voicing opinions and exchanging views in a civilized manner, tell me, what makes you think that everyone here is interested in your new ipod or other silly details of your life? What is boring to you may be interesting to someone else. Surely no one is forcing you to click on my links and read them?
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Cool, fill yer boots.. I am off for the night to spend time with my girlies.
I expect to see lots and lots of links when I log back in a few days time. don't let me down now.
Stop feeling so woe is me ffs, self pity is not very attractive
Night folks... watch out for all the viruses attached to the links Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Anatomy of a revolution: Meet the young Egyptian activists who started it all
Yesterday, the New York Times offered a glimpse into the lives of those young people on the ground. And it is the young people who are driving the revolution in Egypt. According to Foreign Policy's Ellen Knickmeyer, "Rather than the Arab world's usual suspects -- bearded Islamists or jaded leftists -- it is young people, angry at the lack of economic opportunity available to them, who are risking their lives going up against police forces."
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
The game isn't over. Mubarak may be the devil we know, but he is still the devil
Posted by marydot (Member # 15932) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: what did I miss?
I'm glad i missed whatever happened. I don't think i want to know. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Just been out in Luxor, found an ATM that didn't rob me, saluted and was saluted back by the nice soldiers at HSBC *blush*
Captain (he looked like the boss anyway) asked my Nationality so I said Egyptian he laughed, I said English what's your nationality, he says very proudly "I am Egyptian, Army, president is gone and Army will save and protect this country". Other soldiers were posing with passers by for pics (no pics been allowed with army before), people handing out sweets and congratulating each other, never seen so many smiles here. Medina St was buzzing, smiling, lots of hugging and mabruks, atmosphere is great, Tahrir must be positively orgasmic! Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Al Arabiya: Amr Moussa will step down as Secretary General of the Arab League within a few weeks. (probably the next president of Egypt) 1 hour ago
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: what did I miss?
I'm glad i missed whatever happened. I don't think i want to know.
I missed the greatest moment in Egypt's history! babaMu has GONE!! yayyyy
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
omg...just woke up to the good news!!!!! Oh what a relief! So happy ! Can't wait to come back! You never know there might be a surge in tourism as people might be more interested in the place now.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Blimey. I missed all that. Vw, why do you think she was talking to you? Nowhere did I see your name mentioned.
I prefer the links, especially the Islamophobe stuff. Saves threads being gummed up with reams and reams of crap
Well done Egypt. I knew you had it in you Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I really think so glassflower, I feel very optimistic and that is NOT like me maybe it's just tonights vibe. But Egypt has been shown to the world for the peaceful strong one hand they are and they have gained massive respect in only 18 DAYS!!
More will want to see this place and now more in the world possibly even know WHERE it is on a map!! Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Ladies, driving through Birmingham yesterday I saw two fresh posters advertising Egypt There will be such a drive now (view previous easy to read post about adverts on national TV).
Egypt always bounces back, there is too much here to see and do. Egypt suits so many people's idea of a holiday be it historic, sun seeking, water sport etc... it ALWAYS bounces back.
Ayisha is right, Egypt is well and truely on the map.
Monkey, I feel bullied. Especially when I get ganged up on lol... ah dammit, I just felt myself get over it.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
WARNING: do not read while drinking, could cause damage to computer!
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret:
Monkey, I feel bullied. Especially when I get ganged up on lol... ah dammit, I just felt myself get over it.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Yes so do I Ayisha....it may actually be one of the best democracies as its had such a public birth and people know what they dont want!
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
lmao... add a comma here or there and that statement could be SO different.
Drinking... ah yes, I am in the UK now so there IS alcohol available.
But no OTC drugs!!! Oh my... back to Cairo immediately Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Ferret, now don't go saying things like that, please. Some of us have to live in hobbitville for the foreseeable. You are just loading Sono up with ammunition. There's a lot to be said for keeping some back
LMAO, tell you what, next time a Beduoin asks if we need any help (meaning do you want to score) I'm going to ask them for tampax Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Ferret, now don't go saying things like that, please. Some of us have to live in hobbitville for the foreseeable. You are just loading Sono up with ammunition. There's a lot to be said for keeping some back
Is Hobbitville a FB app like petville? How cool would it be to have you and Ayisha as characters to control lol...
I am currently in England and I am proud to say I am currently in a County...
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
AJE: International of M will be frozen especially his accounts in Sweden.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
But they're all counties, Ferret. But surely.... NOT A SHIRE!!! Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Well mine doesn't even have Shire in its name Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret:
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Finally! Sweet knowing I annoy people Now you know how I feel everytime I click on a thread and just see links!
What a COWARD you are!! You pick up on me only because you know I am disliked in this forum because of my views about Islam. Your "friends" often post long boring articles - but no rude comments there. I go out of my way to make it SHORT so that people like YOU can easily SKIP them, and you pick up on me out of all posters..COWARD is all I can say.
Actually my feelings towards people lacking their own opinions has been quite generic for three years but you seem to think in an egotistical manner that I am referring to you.
I don't care if you are liked or not ( I really don't spend all day here scouring everyone's words!!!) but if you feel so disliked by others then perhaps you should Google 'how to make friends and influence people' as opposed to throwing your toys out the pram like a child and hissy fitting at me.
Coward... yeah right! Said the one whining about being picked on! SASH... cue the rolly eyes!
There you go,Ferret: Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
@ Cheeky: Phew. Boy am I relieved to hear that Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
lol, y'all crack me up Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret:
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Finally! Sweet knowing I annoy people Now you know how I feel everytime I click on a thread and just see links!
What a COWARD you are!! You pick up on me only because you know I am disliked in this forum because of my views about Islam. Your "friends" often post long boring articles - but no rude comments there. I go out of my way to make it SHORT so that people like YOU can easily SKIP them, and you pick up on me out of all posters..COWARD is all I can say.
Actually my feelings towards people lacking their own opinions has been quite generic for three years but you seem to think in an egotistical manner that I am referring to you.
I don't care if you are liked or not ( I really don't spend all day here scouring everyone's words!!!) but if you feel so disliked by others then perhaps you should Google 'how to make friends and influence people' as opposed to throwing your toys out the pram like a child and hissy fitting at me.
Coward... yeah right! Said the one whining about being picked on! SASH... cue the rolly eyes!
There you go,Ferret:
Cheers Sash... you know my dislike of the rolly eye thing too lol Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Just been out in Luxor, found an ATM that didn't rob me, saluted and was saluted back by the nice soldiers at HSBC *blush*
Captain (he looked like the boss anyway) asked my Nationality so I said Egyptian he laughed, I said English what's your nationality, he says very proudly "I am Egyptian, Army, president is gone and Army will save and protect this country". Other soldiers were posing with passers by for pics (no pics been allowed with army before), people handing out sweets and congratulating each other, never seen so many smiles here. Medina St was buzzing, smiling, lots of hugging and mabruks, atmosphere is great, Tahrir must be positively orgasmic!
This must have been touching and very emotional.
Most,if not all those Egyptians who started the revolution never knew any other way of life.
Congrats,Egypt.Even some fellow nationals of mine here in PR that never visited Egypt were admiring the courage and braveness of those Egyptians. They are sending warm regards and respects to them.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
To the Egyptian Bravehearts, I salute you all Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: To the Egyptian Bravehearts, I salute you all
There was more than 1000.....
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
Congratulations to every Egyptian!!!!
We've been celebrating all day but when hubby just called a friend of his he let him know that many are not happy because they don't really know what happened. Lack of information and tons of rumours spreading and a LOT of hatred towards the US for propping this dictator from hell up for so very long.
Still happy though but that kind of burst his balloon. Hearing more arabic today than in all of our 4 yrs of marriage. lol
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
Just had to come and join you all in the celebrations as I've been thinking about you all and occasionally dropping in for a visit.
What an amazing 18 days! I've been glued to the tv and news and couldn't believe after all that, that I missed the moment of the resignation announcement. Now the hard work will have to begin to rebuild Egypt from top to bottom.
Praying that the coming days will be dealt with with wisdom and that Allah grants Egypt khair following the fall of the regime!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Newcomer I missed it too and hubby too, he was asleep It was so fast, ferret missed it by going to the loo!
I kept saying Allah is on the side of the right so he has to go and he did Allahu Akbar, Alhamdulillah!
sorry, had a little moment there
People are concerned naturally, this is all so new to many, and change is scary, but I really do think this will change for the better for so many people, the real people that matter! They will make sure of it now.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Greetings Newcomer - lovely to see you popping by!
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
It is so nice to see so many 'oldies' posting Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: It is so nice to see so many 'oldies' posting
Yesss,its such a special moment that even long gone members have joined for an online celebration. Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: It is so nice to see so many 'oldies' posting
Who're you calling an 'oldie'?
Good to be able to celebrate some good news for Egypt with some old friends!
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
It would be nice to think they would stick around. ES needs this.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Assalamu alaykum newcomer, lovely to see you pop in. Thanks for all your prayers, surely Allah has listened to the millions who've been praying for the Egyptians these last weeks. Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
I think you know what I mean lol Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Revolution Is Bad for Business
No Quick Fix for Arab Youth's Economic Woes By Ulrike Putz
The unrest in the Arab world is being fueled by massive economic problems, as young populations, who are facing a grim future, vent their frustration on the streets. But economists argue that the region's opposition movements may not be acting in the best interests of the youth.
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Just had to come and join you all in the celebrations as I've been thinking about you all and occasionally dropping in for a visit.
What an amazing 18 days! I've been glued to the tv and news and couldn't believe after all that, that I missed the moment of the resignation announcement. Now the hard work will have to begin to rebuild Egypt from top to bottom.
Praying that the coming days will be dealt with with wisdom and that Allah grants Egypt khair following the fall of the regime!
Same feelings here, couldn't have said it better. Wonderful news. Mabruk to all in Egypt and the oldies at ES Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Seen a few comments online where it appears Western media have given the impression (and looking at photos in, for example, The Daily Mail) that women were not involved in this.
Also, astonished to hear from a friend in the UK that 'if there were only ten thousand protestors, how can this be democracy' - apparently certain arms of the news media (she named Radio 2) are giving out that it was just a few thousand people involved, and I did hear one pundit on BBC World yesterday saying "this isn't the right way, after all Egypt does have elections".
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Radio 4 and BBC generally covered it as it being a great day, had positive interviews with people saying it won't be the next Iran - that actually Iran may follow Egypt etc, but with a pinch of caution thrown in with an interview from our resident tutter . They showed the celebrations on BBC World most of last night.
They did say there were hundreds of thousands in Cairo when he went... I dunno... looked more like millions to me.
Daily Mail I couldn't tell you.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Curfew still in force, but from midnight to 6am now.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Is the stock market still expected to open tomorrow?
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
السلام عليكم ورحمه الله و بركاته Nice to see you back again, newcomer. I wish You have great time in UK. Take care, Enjoy Life God Bless you wessalam.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Throughout the 18 days the Daily Mail did not have Egypt on its front page for most of the time .....it was the only paper to act like this. I wonder if it had a big Jewish influence.....Much is being said against the Muslim Brotherhood here....almost putting a fear into people. It will not take much after the home grown misguided bombers the UK has produced. SKY this morning had a particularly nasty Jewish man (sorry forgot his name) trying to put fear into Arabs in the region about the Brotherhood. Someone forgot to tell him its an Egyptian agenda not an Jewish or American agenda
By the way I have no particular religious affiliation
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
To be fair, the Daily Mail need their front cover for stories on Princess Di.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Kind of reminds me finally throwing open all the windows in the old house that has been locked and boarded up for 30 years, let the dusting and house cleaning begin.. Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Is the stock market still expected to open tomorrow?
Wednesday now they said.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Does anyone have any good links to photo albums (rather than individual photos) of all the christians and muslims acting together and all the cross + crescent symbolism?
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
For future reference, and please pass on to any Algerians you may know right now:
Facebook can be got here: 66.220.153.25
Twitter can be got here: 128.242.240.52
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Is the stock market still expected to open tomorrow?
Wednesday now they said.
Ah right. Thanks for that Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Egyptian activist Wael Ghonim , who became one of the chief faces of the Egyptian revolution after he was released from a 12-day-long detention, praised CNN and the media in an interview with Wolf Blitzer on Friday.
Ghonim said the media had helped save lives by casting a spotlight on what was going on in Egypt.
"You guys have played a great role in saving the lives of hundreds if not thousands of people," Ghonim said. "CNN did a great job. You guys deserve a great recognition from the Egyptian people and we are not going to forget your role. You guys are heroes as well. You are part of the revolution. You should be proud of yourself."
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
Dont know you guys,but since the victory of Egyptians against the brutal regime of Mubarak was being watched worldwide,ive known that friends that never before had shown any interest to visit Egypt are now asking a lot about it,and best of all making plans to include Egypt as tourist destination.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Am locking this thread now as it's up to 47 pages! And also it's like the closing of a chapter. The demonstrators achieved their aim yesterday and HB stepped down. New chapter in the revolution!
Find the post you want to link to, right click the little icon on the left before the word 'posted' - on most posts it is a yellow 'message pad' - and you can copy and paste the location into your new comment in the new thread.
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or should I say, big fucking deal.
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