quote:

---

In practice it is possible to determine directly the skin color and hence the
ethnic affiliations of the ancient Egyptians by microscopic analysis in the
laboratory; I doubt if the sagacity of the researchers who have studied the
question has overlooked the possibility.

Melanin (eumelanin), the chemical body responsible for skin pigmentation, is,
broadly speaking, insoluble and is preserved for millions of years in the skins
of fossil animals.

There is thus all the more reason for it to be readily recoverable in the
skins of Egyptian mummies, despite a tenacious legend that the skin of mummies,
tainted by the embalming material, is no longer susceptible of any analysis.

Although the epidermis is the main site of the melanin, the melanocytes
penetrating the derm at the boundary between it and the epidermis, even where
the latter has mostly been destroyed by the embalming materials, show a melanin
level which is non-existent in the white-skinned races.

The samples I myself analyzed were taken in the physical anthropology
laboratory of the Mus'ee de l'Homme in Paris off the mummies from the Marietta
excavations in Egypt.
( This test indicated that these remains were of Black people. )


The same method is perfectly suitable for use on the royal mummies of
Thutmoses III, Seti I and Ramses II in the Cairo Museum, which are in an excel
state of preservation.

For two years past I have been vainly begging the curator of the Cairo Museum
for similar samples to analyze. No more than a few square millimetres of skin
would be required to mount a specimen, the preparations being a few um in
thickness and lightened with ethyl benzoate.

They can be studied by natural light or with ultra-violet lighting which
renders the melanin grains fluorescent.

Either way let us simply say that the evaluation of melanin level by
microscopic examination is a laboratory method which enables us to classify the
ancient Egyptians unquestionably among the black races.

By Cheikh Anta Diop

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mentu:
The case was closed back then in 1974,eurocentrists
have never provided any more new evidence
of a white egypt since, all papers have
since comfirmed obenda and diop suppositions.

---

THOSE CAUGHT IN A LIE, USUALLY DENY IT. HOWEVER, IF THE TRUTH IS
OVERWHELMING, THEY WILL, IF THEY CAN, SIMPLY IGNORE IT...

Here's a book that everyone seriously interested
in Ancient Egypt should read. It is a compilation of the papers
prepared for and a report on the discussion on the Symposium
organized by UNESCO and subsequently published for
preparation and publication of a General History of Africa.



And Finally the coup d'etat; Prof Diop invited
participants to produce comparable
representations of whites in dignified or
commanding postures dating from early
Pharaonic times of which non was produced
by any of the invitees.
 

---

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
 
Just a casual search around the net finds Diop under attack and discredited.
 

---

Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by mentu:
The case was closed back then in 1974,eurocentrists have never provided any more new evidence of a white egypt since, all papers have since comfirmed obenda and diop suppositions.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hammer:
Just a casual search around the net finds Diop under attack and discredited.

---

Yea. By people like you. Diop wasn't perfect, but he wasn't full of sh*t either. That's much more than I can say about you. People can criticize Darwin and Einstein (which some do a lot actually). Any scientific work can be challenged. But the onus of proof is then put onto YOU to show why he's wrong.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Indeed. While Diop was wrong about some things, his main premise that ancient Egypt was a black African civilization is confirmed by all mainstream scientific and academic studies. Of course the hammered professor is just in denial of this as usual.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hammered:

Diop was a radical scholar out on the edge. His work has been riddled by criticism in recent years. You should know that Wally or is the above piece just another wallyism?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
This site was provided by Nehesy. I used Google translate to give us the
English translation from the French...

Letter from Cairo

quote:

---

SOME GENETIC FEATURES OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS

As part of research conducted by the Cairo University in collaboration
with the Higher Council of Antiquities, it has been possible to achieve the
anthropological characteristics of the Pharaohs.

According to preliminary indications, we reached a number of traits of the
Pharaohs. It was possible to identify genes for size, color and eye color and
hair of the king in the Pharaonic era in which samples were collected. They
were placed on mummies in sarcophagi. A group of researchers has been
able to separate those genes that have proven that the ancient Egyptians
were not taller as previously thought. Their size was rather average, with
the exception of Ramses II, whose analysis of genes has proven to be cut.

It has also been demonstrated that his skin was brown and his hair was black,
not red. The color red has been found on his mummy is due to a dye (probably henna).
His eyes were black with a slight tinge of brown.

Amenhotep III was short of stature, the color of his skin was a light brown.
His eyes and his hair was black dark. These features show that the kings were
related. All the kings at that time had a common origin in the family tree of the
royal family. It is possible to determine a precise dates and times in the future.
This research will confirm certain anthropological traits that have been studied
before on the Pharaonic mummies. This will give preliminary indications about
the traits, diseases and characteristics of the Pharaohs.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
...this posting, which I inadvertently started as a new topic, should have
actually been posted here because it reflects the continuing scientific
investigations stemming from the 1974 Cairo conference...It's an update:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
This site was provided by Nehesy. I used Google translate to give us the
English translation from the French...

Letter from Cairo

quote:

---

SOME GENETIC FEATURES OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS

As part of research conducted by the Cairo University in collaboration
with the Higher Council of Antiquities, it has been possible to achieve the
anthropological characteristics of the Pharaohs.

According to preliminary indications, we reached a number of traits of the
Pharaohs. It was possible to identify genes for size, color and eye color and
hair of the king in the Pharaonic era in which samples were collected. They
were placed on mummies in sarcophagi. A group of researchers has been
able to separate those genes that have proven that the ancient Egyptians
were not taller as previously thought. Their size was rather average, with
the exception of Ramses II, whose analysis of genes has proven to be cut.

It has also been demonstrated that his skin was brown and his hair was black,
not red. The color red has been found on his mummy is due to a dye (probably henna).
His eyes were black with a slight tinge of brown.

Amenhotep III was short of stature, the color of his skin was a light brown.
His eyes and his hair was black dark. These features show that the kings were
related. All the kings at that time had a common origin in the family tree of the
royal family. It is possible to determine a precise dates and times in the future.
This research will confirm certain anthropological traits that have been studied
before on the Pharaonic mummies. This will give preliminary indications about
the traits, diseases and characteristics of the Pharaohs.

---

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
^ no wonder you are sexually confused.

1. Before you make assertions like the above. Check to make sure you are right. I haven't but I know Diop wasn't the only one that did this test. Remember that paper, by the Germans scientist(?), that talked about the skin "packed with melanin". Seems like. . . the test IS possible. Do I need to research and post?


edit:==

The content of melanin in the skin can be calculated by the formula below:
Mx=500/log5. Log(infrared-reflection)/ (red-reflection)+log5
The biggest rate between one types of light and another is1: 5, so the testing range is 0-99.
The formula is invented by Mr. Max, a professor from Cardiff unversity, Germany.
The bigger the calue measured is, the higher the content of melanin is skin is.

---

funny xyyman,

you list the description dubious hair and beauty care electronic device currently being sold by a Chinese beauty care company to help in analyzing skin bleaching products.

Guangzhou Jimy Facial & Hair Beauty Products Co.

(they can't even spell "Jimmy" right)

Skin Analyzer for Moisture, Oil, Melanin, Elasticty (Model #T-49)

order now while supplies last

note: exact quote you gave, scroll down to 3,
Principle of Melanin Tesing ("testing")


who discovered this magic formula Diop?

a professor name "Mr. Max"

Of Cardiff University, Germany right?
Only problem is Cardiff University is located in Britain. I hope other people don't fall for this

I'm going to have to break my rule about not saying "lol"

LOL,

Mr.xyyman
 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
the lioness (?)

This person is a bona fide Idiot

Idiot: someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.

...Kinda reminds me of racists like Hammer, who constantly make totally unsubstantiated statements:

quote:

---

the lioness wrote:
The letter "Some Genetic Features of Ancient Egyptian" is a fake...

---

quote:

---

the lioness wrote:
Professor C.A. Diop's Melanin Dosage Test is a myth...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
^ no wonder you are sexually confused.

1. Before you make assertions like the above. Check to make sure you are right. I haven't but I know Diop wasn't the only one that did this test. Remember that paper, by the Germans scientist(?), that talked about the skin "packed with melanin". Seems like. . . the test IS possible. Do I need to research and post?


edit:==

The content of melanin in the skin can be calculated by the formula below:
Mx=500/log5. Log(infrared-reflection)/ (red-reflection)+log5
The biggest rate between one types of light and another is1: 5, so the testing range is 0-99.
The formula is invented by Mr. Max, a professor from Cardiff unversity, Germany.
The bigger the calue measured is, the higher the content of melanin is skin is.

---

funny xyyman,

you list the description dubious hair and beauty care electronic device currently being sold by a Chinese beauty care company to help in analyzing skin bleaching products.

Guangzhou Jimy Facial & Hair Beauty Products Co.

(they can't even spell "Jimmy" right)

Skin Analyzer for Moisture, Oil, Melanin, Elasticty (Model #T-49)

order now while supplies last

note: exact quote you gave, scroll down to 3,
Principle of Melanin Tesing ("testing")


who discovered this magic formula Diop?

a professor name "Mr. Max"

Of Cardiff University, Germany right?
Only problem is Cardiff University is located in Britain. I hope other people don't fall for this

I'm going to have to break my rule about not saying "lol"

LOL,

Mr.xyyman

---

 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Wally's hustle is to avoid sources. When forced to and then somebody checks to verify, we find that the Egyptian Information Service (of the Egyptian Government) lists no such "Letter to Cairo" called

CERTAINS TRAITS GENETIQUES DES EGYPTIENS ANCIENS

Or the english translation:

SOME GENETIC FEATURES OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS

see for yourself, the "letter" is not published or listed:

http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/Default.aspx


Nowhere has Diop's 1970s "Melanin Dosage Test" been described in detail or verified. He claims to have "tested" a few "samples". Which samples were those. It's over 30 years ago. Why bother, when you have S.O.Y Keita and Kittles?
Shows how old and crusty some of our Egptoeccentrics are getting
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Does it really matter, especially when white European scientists from only a few years back have confirmed Diop??

Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13

"Materials and methods
In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Does it really matter, especially when white European scientists from only a few years back have confirmed Diop??

Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13

"Materials and methods
In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Does it really matter, especially when white European scientists from only a few years back have confirmed Diop??

Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13

"Materials and methods
In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
does anybody have the full study from:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyymanlover:

Thank you Mary.

---

Sorry but I'm not into that transgender roleplay crap that you and your boyfriend Anguished are into. Don't get mad at me cuz your albino fantasies don't hold up to reality.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
Being lazy? The full study is on ESR. I haven't read the full study as yet.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
does anybody have the full study from:

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
As I asked. Are you lazy? Practically the whole study is there. Decided not to upload. But copy and paste relevant portions.

Search around you will find it.

A link to the other study is posted on ESR.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
PM you digits. lol! hope you are not a she-male.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
The general consensus reached at the Cairo Symposium was that there was no
evidence that the ancient Egyptians were white; that Egypt was not influenced
by Mesopotamia, but the peoples from "the Great Lakes region in inner-equatorial Africa."

For centuries, this area of equatorial Africa has been called "The Mountain of
the Moon" by the native inhabitants. As a matter of fact, in the language of
Ki-Swahili, 'Kilimanjaro' means "Mountain of the Moon," as does the Burgunda
word 'Rwenzori.' Kilimanjaro, the tallest mountain in Africa, rises to a
height of 19,340 feet. The second major contributor to the waters of the White
Nile is the Rwenzori Mountains, which border the countries of Uganda and Zaire.

The symposium also rejected the notion that Pharaonic Egyptian, which remained
a stable language for more than 4,500 years, was influenced by Semitic
language (of the pseudo-named phylum "Afro-Asiatic"). The proceedings of the conference
were published by UNESCO in 1978.

One of the most significant revelations presented at the Cairo Symposium was
Diop's development of the "Melanin Dosage Test." This one simple test provided
the means by which one could determine the PHENOTYPE of the Egyptian royal
mummies by examining the melanin content present in their skin.

The test involved the acquisition of specimens, consisting of a few square
millimeters of mummified skin, which were then coated with ethyl benzoate and
exposed to natural or ultra-violet light. This procedure rendered the melanin
granules in the skin specimen fluorescent, thus enabling them to be counted by
Diop.

MELANIN DOSAGE TEST

quote:

---

In practice it is possible to determine directly the skin color and hence the
ethnic affiliations of the ancient Egyptians by microscopic analysis in the
laboratory; I doubt if the sagacity of the researchers who have studied the
question has overlooked the possibility.

Melanin (eumelanin), the chemical body responsible for skin pigmentation, is,
broadly speaking, insoluble and is preserved for millions of years in the skins
of fossil animals.

There is thus all the more reason for it to be readily recoverable in the
skins of Egyptian mummies, despite a tenacious legend that the skin of mummies,
tainted by the embalming material, is no longer susceptible of any analysis.

Although the epidermis is the main site of the melanin, the melanocytes
penetrating the derm at the boundary between it and the epidermis, even where
the latter has mostly been destroyed by the embalming materials, show a melanin
level which is non-existent in the white-skinned races.

The samples I myself analyzed were taken in the physical anthropology
laboratory of the Mus'ee de l'Homme in Paris off the mummies from the Marietta
excavations in Egypt.
( This test indicated that these remains were of Black people. )


The same method is perfectly suitable for use on the royal mummies of
Thutmoses III, Seti I and Ramses II in the Cairo Museum, which are in an excel
state of preservation.

For two years past I have been vainly begging the curator of the Cairo Museum
for similar samples to analyze. No more than a few square millimetres of skin
would be required to mount a specimen, the preparations being a few um in
thickness and lightened with ethyl benzoate.

They can be studied by natural light or with ultra-violet lighting which
renders the melanin grains fluorescent.

Either way let us simply say that the evaluation of melanin level by
microscopic examination is a laboratory method which enables us to classify the
ancient Egyptians unquestionably among the black races.

By Cheikh Anta Diop

---

Official UNESCO report conclusion: “Although the preparatory working paper sent
out by UNESCO gave particulars of what was desired, not all participants had
prepared communications comparable with the painstakingly researched
contributions of Professors Cheikh Anta Diop and Obenga. There was consequently
a real lack of balance in the discussions.”

In plain English - Western Egyptology publicly got its plow cleaned!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
As I asked. Are you lazy? Practically the whole study is there. Decided not to upload. But copy and paste relevant portions.

Search around you will find it.

A link to the other study is posted on ESR.

---

it costs $37. Can you loan me the money?

---

quote:

---

Wikipedia:
Diop published his technique and methodology for a melanin dosage test in scholarly
journals. Diop used this technique to determine the melanin content of the Egyptian
mummies. Forensic investigators later adopted this technique to determine the "racial
identity" of badly burnt accident victims.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:

quote:

---

Wikipedia:
Diop published his technique and methodology for a melanin dosage test in scholarly
journals. Diop used this technique to determine the melanin content of the Egyptian
mummies. Forensic investigators later adopted this technique to determine the "racial
identity" of badly burnt accident victims.

---

That this new technique was later adopted by the U.S. forensic department to determine the
racial identity of badly burnt accident victims and has never acknowledged the author of this test;
Cheikh Anta Diop...is ironic but not surprising...

---

Wally do the basic research, in forensics race estimates use no method related to melanin. Your comment is complete nonsense. They use cranial and skeletal analysis.
In your your example, if the person was badly burned there would be no skin to test anyway. If some white person were burnt to a crisp you'd probably say they were black.
If some part of the person was not burnt there would be no need for a test.
Don't look now here's some guys with plenty of melanin:





 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Wally do the basic research...blah, blah,blah...

---

What a delightful idiot...

> Cannot descern the difference between 'badly burned victim' and 'totally burned victim.'

> Wants the U.S. Forensic department to abandon the use of its melanin dosage test
as a research instrument, and restrict its tools of use to cranial and skeletal analysis; you
know, just bones - no hair, no DNA...

> Then trots out his 'tired' photos of Black Asians for some inexplicable reason

His "is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ And apparently the idiot cannot discern the difference between an AFRICAN and an ASIAN. Sorry but if you can't tell the difference between a northeast African and South Asian, we can't help you.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
this is hilarious, there is no "U.S. Forensic Department"

this is so eeeeeasy
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Yes there is; it's called the FBI LAB Services, dummy!

Your stupidity is hilarious indeed and too easy to mock.

You should log off and end your life, since your life in this forum is obviously a joke.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Yes there is; it's called the FBI LAB Services, dummy!

Your stupidity is hilarious indeed and too easy to mock.

You should log off and end your life, since your life in this forum is obviously a joke.

---

Like I said there is no "U.S. Forensics Department"

What's in a name, go find anything that represents
a melanin test in the F.B.I's forensics department
 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
Djehuti,
I really doubt that the **Stormfronter will be able to comprehend or connect the following
to what has already been presented:

In 2010, the requirements for a degree in Forensic pathology is education after high school of typically 13 years in duration, which shall also include:

Principles of pathology

Disease/Medical condition (Infection, Neoplasia) · Hemodynamics (Ischemia) · Inflammation · Wound healing

Cell death: Necrosis (Liquefactive necrosis, Coagulative necrosis, Caseous necrosis, Fat necrosis) · Apoptosis · Pyknosis · Karyorrhexis · Karyolysis

Cellular adaptation: Atrophy · Hypertrophy · Hyperplasia · Dysplasia · Metaplasia (Squamous, Glandular)

accumulations: pigment (Hemosiderin, Lipochrome/Lipofuscin, Melanin) · Steatosis

<><><>

ELEMENTARY BIOLOGY
What Causes Skin Color Differences?
The presence of different amounts of pigments scattered through the basal layer of the
epidermis causes skin color differences. The most important of these pigments is the
brownish-black substance called melanin. Melanin is present to some degree in all people.
Individuals who lack melanin completely are called Albinos. Those of us with dark brown or
black skin have a great deal of melanin. Others of us who have medium or light brown skin
have less of it, while those people with very light brown or "white" skin possess very little
melanin. The different skin colors are seen because, while the color of the melanin in
different people is the same, the amount of it is not. Now, how does one provide the
scientific method of determining this amount?

The Melanin Dosage test has been accepted by American Science...

<><><>

**Typical response from Stormfront: "His melanin dosage testing method is not scientifically
sound as it failed to consider possible ramifications due to the mummification process."

Well...it seems that Diop had already anticipated this idiocy, when he wrote and which I included in my opening post:

"despite a tenacious legend that the skin of mummies, tainted by the embalming material,
is no longer susceptible of any analysis.

Although the epidermis is the main site of the melanin, the melanocytes
penetrating the derm at the boundary between it and the epidermis, even where
the latter has mostly been destroyed by the embalming materials, show a melanin
level which is non-existent in the white-skinned races."
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Indeed, the poor pathetic lyingass fool is being decimated in one thread. How many threads must she be humiliated in?

Of course melanin dosage testing is valid as it measures the amount of pigment in the skin. Why shouldn't it be valid compared to other tests like craniometrics which we know is not too accurate since we know craniofacial features among humans are too diverse.

Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13

"Materials and methods
In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."

Can the Lyingass find a way to refute the above? I don't think so.
 

---

Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
^^
] Here is another one. This is not rocket science.

WTF - Why debate this shyte.


ESR has the full study. There are many others.


=======
Histologic findings in mummified skin
Thomas A. Chapel, M.D., Amir H. Mehregan, M.D., and
Theodore A. Reyman, M.D.
Detroit, MJ
Skin specimens from five mummies were examined histologically.
The specimens ranged in age from 2,000 to 3,200 years . Material
from two mummies had carbonized and showed only amorphous
debris. The histology of the three remaining skin fragments retained
surprising histologic architectural detail. One specimen obtained from
the sole of the foot was compatible with a callus. (J AM ACAD
DERMATOL 4:27-30 , 1981.)

====

Egyptian mummies were prepared by
chemical dehydration, and the skin was covered
with plant resin or mineral pitch prior to elaborate
wrapping. Despite these factors, many areas of the
skin of these mummies have been well preserved.
The dehydration procedures and the passage of
centuries have made the skin hard, brittle, and
virtually water-free. However, following rehydration
and histologic processing, surprising morphologic
detail often remains .
This report describes the histologic findings of
skin fragments from five Egyptian mummies, although
experience of one of us (T. A . R.) suggests
that the changes in the Aleutian and North and
South American mummies are similar.


=====

The specimens ranged in age from 2 ,000 to 3,200
years . The first four specimens were random skin sections,
while the one from the Royal Ontario Museum
mummy consisted of one of two contiguous papules,
0.3 to 0.5 em, from the sole of the right foot in the area
of the second and third metatarsal heads


=====
Fig. 1. Tissue from the nape of the neck shows a deeply pigmented epidermis. Occasional
clear cells (arrow) are recognized at the dermoepidermal junction. In the papillary connective
tissue are nuclei of fibroblasts. (Hematoxylin-eosin stain; X60.)


=====

Fig. 2. In the deep dermis is an acutely curved hair
follicle suggesting formation of a[u] kinky hair shaft[/u].
(Hematoxylin-eosin stain; x60.)
 

---

Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 
To be honest, both of those studies on mummies are rather vague when describing pigmentation. What exactly is the range of melanin content for people of "Negroid" origin? Exactly how deeply pigmented was the epidermis? And how do these mummies compare to people from other populations with regards to skin color?

I am pursuing a career in biological anthropology, and it is my ambition to measure the melanin content in Egyptian mummies and compare it to other populations. That will resolve the great debate once and for all!
 

---

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 
^I wouldn't count on it.

It's always some way or another to go around the fact that ancient Egyptians had a skin color that is seen among all other Africans.

Even living blacks aren't spared from being called Caucasian...

People believe what they want to believe, not what is most logical to believe.

This forum is a living example, just look at all the fruitcakes in both camps.

Logic dictates that the ancient Egyptians had melanin levels that one would expect from people in Africa. If not, I'd like to know the alternative scenario that can unify all evidence that has accumulated so far.
 

---

Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
^I wouldn't count on it.

It's always some way or another to go around the fact that ancient Egyptians had a skin color that is seen among all other Africans.

Even living blacks aren't spared from being called Caucasian...

People believe what they want to believe, not what is most logical to believe.

This forum is a living example, just look at all the fruitcakes in both camps.

Logic dictates that the ancient Egyptians had melanin levels that one would expect from people in Africa. If not, I'd like to know the alternative scenario that can unify all evidence that has accumulated so far.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
[QB] To be honest, both of those studies on mummies are rather vague when describing pigmentation. What exactly is the range of melanin content for people of "Negroid"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
To be honest, both of those studies on mummies are rather vague ....?

I am pursuing a career in biological anthropology, . . .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
How old are you? Anthropologist, artist, cartoonist, novelist, historian. Still in yoh momma's basement huh?

---

quote:

---

Original topic posted by Wally:

The general consensus reached at the Cairo Symposium was that there was no
evidence that the ancient Egyptians were white; that Egypt was not influenced
by Mesopotamia, but the peoples from "the Great Lakes region in inner-equatorial Africa."

For centuries, this area of equatorial Africa has been called "The Mountain of
the Moon" by the native inhabitants. As a matter of fact, in the language of
Ki-Swahili, 'Kilimanjaro' means "Mountain of the Moon," as does the Burgunda
word 'Rwenzori.' Kilimanjaro, the tallest mountain in Africa, rises to a
height of 19,340 feet. The second major contributor to the waters of the White
Nile is the Rwenzori Mountains, which border the countries of Uganda and Zaire.

The symposium also rejected the notion that Pharaonic Egyptian, which remained
a stable language for more than 4,500 years, was influenced by Semitic
language (of the pseudo-named phylum "Afro-Asiatic"). The proceedings of the conference
were published by UNESCO in 1978.

One of the most significant revelations presented at the Cairo Symposium was
Diop's development of the "Melanin Dosage Test." This one simple test provided
the means by which one could determine the PHENOTYPE of the Egyptian royal
mummies by examining the melanin content present in their skin.

The test involved the acquisition of specimens, consisting of a few square
millimeters of mummified skin, which were then coated with ethyl benzoate and
exposed to natural or ultra-violet light. This procedure rendered the melanin
granules in the skin specimen fluorescent, thus enabling them to be counted by
Diop.

MELANIN DOSAGE TEST

quote:

---

In practice it is possible to determine directly the skin color and hence the
ethnic affiliations of the ancient Egyptians by microscopic analysis in the
laboratory; I doubt if the sagacity of the researchers who have studied the
question has overlooked the possibility.

Melanin (eumelanin), the chemical body responsible for skin pigmentation, is,
broadly speaking, insoluble and is preserved for millions of years in the skins
of fossil animals.

There is thus all the more reason for it to be readily recoverable in the
skins of Egyptian mummies, despite a tenacious legend that the skin of mummies,
tainted by the embalming material, is no longer susceptible of any analysis.

Although the epidermis is the main site of the melanin, the melanocytes
penetrating the derm at the boundary between it and the epidermis, even where
the latter has mostly been destroyed by the embalming materials, show a melanin
level which is non-existent in the white-skinned races.

The samples I myself analyzed were taken in the physical anthropology
laboratory of the Mus'ee de l'Homme in Paris off the mummies from the Marietta
excavations in Egypt.
( This test indicated that these remains were of Black people. )


The same method is perfectly suitable for use on the royal mummies of
Thutmoses III, Seti I and Ramses II in the Cairo Museum, which are in an excellent
state of preservation.

For two years past I have been vainly begging the curator of the Cairo Museum
for similar samples to analyze. No more than a few square millimetres of skin
would be required to mount a specimen, the preparations being a few um in
thickness and lightened with ethyl benzoate.

They can be studied by natural light or with ultra-violet lighting which
renders the melanin grains fluorescent.

Either way let us simply say that the evaluation of melanin level by
microscopic examination is a laboratory method which enables us to classify the
ancient Egyptians unquestionably among the black races.

By Cheikh Anta Diop

---

Official UNESCO report conclusion: “Although the preparatory working paper sent
out by UNESCO gave particulars of what was desired, not all participants had
prepared communications comparable with the painstakingly researched
contributions of Professors Cheikh Anta Diop and Obenga. There was consequently
a real lack of balance in the discussions.”

In plain English - Western Egyptology publicly got its plow cleaned!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by anguishofbeing:

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
How old are you? Anthropologist, artist, cartoonist, novelist, historian. Still in yoh momma's basement huh?

---

Brandon is focking weird.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
^^
] Here is another one. This is not rocket science.

WTF - Why debate this shyte.


ESR has the full study. There are many others.


=======
Histologic findings in mummified skin
Thomas A. Chapel, M.D., Amir H. Mehregan, M.D., and
Theodore A. Reyman, M.D.
Detroit, MJ
Skin specimens from five mummies were examined histologically.
The specimens ranged in age from 2,000 to 3,200 years . Material
from two mummies had carbonized and showed only amorphous
debris. The histology of the three remaining skin fragments retained
surprising histologic architectural detail. One specimen obtained from
the sole of the foot was compatible with a callus. (J AM ACAD
DERMATOL 4:27-30 , 1981.)

====

Egyptian mummies were prepared by
chemical dehydration, and the skin was covered
with plant resin or mineral pitch prior to elaborate
wrapping. Despite these factors, many areas of the
skin of these mummies have been well preserved.
The dehydration procedures and the passage of
centuries have made the skin hard, brittle, and
virtually water-free. However, following rehydration
and histologic processing, surprising morphologic
detail often remains .
This report describes the histologic findings of
skin fragments from five Egyptian mummies, although
experience of one of us (T. A . R.) suggests
that the changes in the Aleutian and North and
South American mummies are similar.


=====

The specimens ranged in age from 2 ,000 to 3,200
years . The first four specimens were random skin sections,
while the one from the Royal Ontario Museum
mummy consisted of one of two contiguous papules,
0.3 to 0.5 em, from the sole of the right foot in the area
of the second and third metatarsal heads


=====
Fig. 1. Tissue from the nape of the neck shows a deeply pigmented epidermis. Occasional
clear cells (arrow) are recognized at the dermoepidermal junction. In the papillary connective
tissue are nuclei of fibroblasts. (Hematoxylin-eosin stain; X60.)


=====

Fig. 2. In the deep dermis is an acutely curved hair
follicle suggesting formation of a[u] kinky hair shaft[/u].
(Hematoxylin-eosin stain; x60.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] "Eyeballing" AEian murals, statues etc
AEians were undoubtedly extremely dark people.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:Most had curly straight hair a few had kinky hair. Most had "sharp noses", a few had "flat noses". It is 50/50 for the full lips vs thin lips.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
unlike many here I believe extremely kinky hair is a NEW evolutionary adaptation. Which means original Africans(AMH) probably had straightish hair when they lived in the plains of the Sahara and East Africa.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
[QB] To be honest, both of those studies on mummies are rather vague when describing pigmentation. What exactly is the range of melanin content for people of "Negroid"

---

whatever you want it to be, that shall be the yardstick of Negroid measurement. It's up to you to determine such a point.

---

quote:

---

In practice it is possible to determine directly the skin color and hence the
ethnic affiliations of the ancient Egyptians by microscopic analysis in the
laboratory; I doubt if the sagacity of the researchers who have studied the
question has overlooked the possibility.

Melanin (eumelanin), the chemical body responsible for skin pigmentation, is,
broadly speaking, insoluble and is preserved for millions of years in the skins
of fossil animals.

There is thus all the more reason for it to be readily recoverable in the
skins of Egyptian mummies, despite a tenacious legend that the skin of mummies,
tainted by the embalming material, is no longer susceptible of any analysis.

Although the epidermis is the main site of the melanin, the melanocytes
penetrating the derm at the boundary between it and the epidermis, even where
the latter has mostly been destroyed by the embalming materials, show a melanin
level which is non-existent in the white-skinned races.

The samples I myself analyzed were taken in the physical anthropology
laboratory of the Mus'ee de l'Homme in Paris off the mummies from the Marietta
excavations in Egypt.
( This test indicated that these remains were of Black people. )


The same method is perfectly suitable for use on the royal mummies of
Thutmoses III, Seti I and Ramses II in the Cairo Museum, which are in an excel
state of preservation.

For two years past I have been vainly begging the curator of the Cairo Museum
for similar samples to analyze. No more than a few square millimetres of skin
would be required to mount a specimen, the preparations being a few um in
thickness and lightened with ethyl benzoate.

They can be studied by natural light or with ultra-violet lighting which
renders the melanin grains fluorescent.

Either way let us simply say that the evaluation of melanin level by
microscopic examination is a laboratory method which enables us to classify the
ancient Egyptians unquestionably among the black races.

By Cheikh Anta Diop

---

Official UNESCO report conclusion: “Although the preparatory working paper sent
out by UNESCO gave particulars of what was desired, not all participants had
prepared communications comparable with the painstakingly researched
contributions of Professors Cheikh Anta Diop and Obenga. There was consequently
a real lack of balance in the discussions.”

In plain English - Western Egyptology publicly got its plow cleaned!
 

---

Posted by Peregrine (Member # 17741) on :
 
bumpity bump Happy Holidays
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
HE describes the hypocrisy and double standards
of the European academy perfectly.

"But it is only the most gratuitous theory that considers the Dinka, the Nouer and the Masai, among others, to be Caucasoids. What if an African ethnologist were to persist in recognizing as white-only the blond, blue-eyed Scandinavians, and systematically refused membership to the remaining Europeans, and Mediterraneans in particular—the French, Italians, Greek, Spanish, and Portuguese? Just as the inhabitants of Scandinavia and the Mediterranean countries must be considered as two extreme poles of the same anthropological reality, so should the Negroes of East and West Africa be considered as the two extremes in the reality of the Negro world. To say that a Shillouk, a Dinka, or a Nouer is a Caucasoid is for an African as devoid of sense and scientific interest as would be, to a European, an attitude that maintained that a Greek or a Latin were not of the same race."
--C.A. Diop 1964
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ I doubt the European academia at least today still goes by such a senseless and idiotic premise. Such a premise was long abandoned by academia by the obvious reasons just stated. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about pathetic white losers who still cling to such a premise and who specifically roam this board today! And you guys know who I'm talking about-- those who claim the Maasai as cacasoids and no doubt the Dinka and Nuer also! LOL
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
Keita did a reverse play on the true negro stereotype in
his Early Nile Valley Farmers from El Badari, and in
his cranial studies of the 1990s, confirming what Diop was
saying 30 years earlier as to Badarian affinities.


 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Due to such findings, I now notice the stance academia has taken today is basically to acknowledge all this yet make no open or blatant claim that the ancient Egyptians were blacks. In other words academia is saying the ancient Egyptians were indigenous Africans possessing the most affinity with neighboring Africans including Sub-Saharans, but they will never as yet say that all this means the Egyptians were indeed black.

It's like saying this bird looks like a chicken, walks like a chicken, sounds like one, and has all the cranial and skeletal features plus plumage and and other features... period. But they won't come out and say the bird is a damn chicken! LOL

Strange is it not??
 

---

Posted by claus3600 (Member # 19584) on :
 
@Djehuti

'academia is saying the ancient Egyptians were indigenous Africans possessing the most affinity with neighboring Africans including Sub-Saharans, but they will never as yet say that all this means the Egyptians were indeed black.

It's like saying this bird looks like a chicken, walks like a chicken, sounds like one, and has all the cranial and skeletal features plus plumage and and other features... period. But they won't come out and say the bird is a damn chicken! LOL

Strange is it not??'

Yep. Very, very strange. I wonder if the notion of admission represents a painful defeat. They would then risk a 'domino effect' in that Black influences on Western Civilization would then come under the spotlight. That the progenitors of Western science, Maths, Philosophy, Architecture and Engineering were Black Africans, a group of people once enslaved and vilified and now dismissed and patronised, would be too much for Western academia and the self-concept of Whites.

The break-out will happen though, whether or not Western academia is aboard.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Funny how people will say there is no such thing as race and then want acedemia to say the Egyptians were the the socially constructed racial term "black".
 

---

Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Funny how people will say there is no such thing as race and then want acedemia to say the Egyptians were were the the socially constructed racial term "black".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by claus3600:

@Djehuti

'academia is saying the ancient Egyptians were indigenous Africans possessing the most affinity with neighboring Africans including Sub-Saharans, but they will never as yet say that all this means the Egyptians were indeed black.

It's like saying this bird looks like a chicken, walks like a chicken, sounds like one, and has all the cranial and skeletal features plus plumage and and other features... period. But they won't come out and say the bird is a damn chicken! LOL

Strange is it not??'

Yep. Very, very strange. I wonder if the notion of admission represents a painful defeat. They would then risk a 'domino effect' in that Black influences on Western Civilization would then come under the spotlight. That the progenitors of Western science, Maths, Philosophy, Architecture and Engineering were Black Africans, a group of people once enslaved and vilified and now dismissed and patronised, would be too much for Western academia and the self-concept of Whites.

The break-out will happen though, whether or not Western academia is aboard.

---

Old habits die hard and there is still some resistance and clinging on to the 'old ways' though in certain circles. National Geographic for instance still publishes their white-wash depictions of Egyptians despite their knowledge of what Egyptians really looked like. They even have their pimps like Zahi Hawass help with their propaganda including the latest (of 7) reconstructions of Tut.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
If the question was asked were the Egyptians very dark skinned the answer would be that original skin color is difficult to be certain about based on mummies.
Based on the art most Egyptians are depicted as medium dark, some lighter others darker. Nubians more often but not always depicted very dark.

"dark skinned" or "brown" is descriptive.

"Black" and "white" are obviously racial terms and different terms from "dark skinned" and "light skinned".

Example:


The term "blacks" here is not a simple description of any dark skinned person.
For example:

The people below, would not be included in the above "black" or "white" category as per this bone indices study








 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 

 

---

Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
If the question was asked were the Egyptians very dark skinned the answer would be that original skin color is difficult to be certain about based on mummies.
Based on the art most Egyptians are depicted as medium dark, some lighter others darker. Nubians more often but not always depicted very dark.

"dark skinned" or "brown" is descriptive.

"Black" and "white" are obviously racial terms and different terms from "dark skinned" and "light skinned".

Example:


The term "blacks" here is not a simple description of any dark skinned person.
For example:

The people below, would not be included in the above "black" or "white" category as per this bone indices study

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Funny how people will say there is no such thing as race and then want acedemia to say the Egyptians were the the socially constructed racial term "black".

---

Tropically-affiliated and looking Africans is what they've been saying and that's good enough for me.
 

---

Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
"Eyeballing" AEian murals, statues etc
AEians were undoubtedly extremely dark people. Most had curly straight hair, a few had kinky hair. Most had "sharp noses", a few had "flat noses". It is 50/50 for the full lips vs thin lips.

Bottom line - ALL were black. Infact, as black as equatorial Africans. Which makes sense after all they came from the South (Sudan) and Sahara areas.

And unlike many here I believe extremely kinky hair is a NEW evolutionary adaptation. Which means original Africans(AMH) probably had straightish hair when they lived in the plains of the Sahara and East Africa.

---

Most probably didn't have straight hair, there is no evidence whatsoever of that. No matter how much chemicals during mummification may have altered their African hair.
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
And unlike many here I believe extremely kinky
hair is a NEW evolutionary adaptation. Which
means original Africans(AMH) probably had
straightish hair when they lived in the plains of the Sahara and East Africa.

^^A possibility. The writings out there are mixed.
Some writers hold that "kinky" hair evolved to give
better heat protection in heavy equatorial jungle.
Others claim that the tight "peppercorn" hair of the
San peoples evolved in open spaces allowing rapid
evaporation of perspiration in hot or tropical
climates. (See: Race and racism: an introduction.
By Carolyn Fluehr-Lobban 2005). The jury still
seems to be out on enviro causes. Maybe there is
no enviro cause per se and just the built-in diversity
of Africa as the source of modern humanity at work.



Whatever the exact mechanisms, if people who
populated West Africa came from East Africa, with
its many varied environments, they originally
may have had straighter, wavy hair, which then
adapted to the heavy equatorial jungle zones, or
the wide open hot zones of savannah and desert.
East Africa has many micro-climes giving plenty
of scope for different adaptations and variants.
If the claimed "recent East African/Sahara approach"
is correct, then the "original" wavy/loose hairs
could change not only in jungle environments but
also in hot savanna and deserts as well.
As the original source however East Africa would
get all the above variants and ranges as part of
its built-in indigenous mix.

At the same time, Africans are not static people
and move freely throughout the continent over human
history. They are not rigidly confined to their
"proper" "apartheid" zones as some would have it.
THey do move around. So "kinky" haired cattle herders/farmers
move routinely around on colder high altitude slopes of East African
mountains, or dry desert areas. They are not bound
to one place on the continent.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
"Eyeballing" AEian murals, statues etc
AEians were undoubtedly extremely dark people.

Infact, as black as equatorial Africans.

---

rather than a faded version of chocolate brown, most AE in the art had a medium reddish brown skin tone, a reddish brwon tone that is not uncommon in modern Egypt. Some appear lighter, others darker.
Obviously as per the art they were not represented as "extremly"
dark as equatorial Africans. Why would you say this?
One of the common tones used by the AE's to portray Nubians is black and you don't see groups (I said groups) of AE's portrayed in this extremely dark color. The vast amjority are portrayed a brick brown color:

most typical ancient Egyptian skin color (hair however is extremely dark):


extremely dark typical Nubian color


^^^^obvious difference, you can't be serious

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:

Most had curly straight hair, a few had kinky hair. Most had "sharp noses", a few had "flat noses". It is 50/50 for the full lips vs thin lips.

Bottom line - ALL were black. Which makes sense after all they came from the South (Sudan) and Sahara areas.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:

And unlike many here I believe extremely kinky hair is a NEW evolutionary adaptation. Which means original Africans(AMH) probably had straightish hair when they lived in the plains of the Sahara and East Africa. [/QB]

---

this would mean that Africans who continued to live in these climates for long periods, example Khosians in an even more arid climate, would have retained straight hair. But they do not have straight hair. In fact their peppercorn hair is more different to straight hair than is the common type of afro-kinky hair found in most parts of Africa.
 

---

Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
 
^ ^ You can't be serious. The vast majority of the A.E population skin tone was dark (reddish) brown not medium brick red. The photo depicting the jumping man was taken in the tomb under a set luminous condition making his skin look so red. Normally, his skin is dark (reddish) brown.
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
this would mean that Africans who continued to live in these climates for long periods, example Khosians in an even more arid climate, would have retained straight hair. But they do not have straight hair. In fact their peppercorn hair is more different to straight hair than is the common type of afro-kinky hair found in most parts of Africa.

^^No dumbass. Because peppercorn hair can also
be an adaptation to hot environments. African
people CAN vary in how they look or adapt, and they
DO move around the continent from climatic zone to zone.


 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
[QB] this would mean that Africans who continued to live in these climates for long periods, example Khosians in an even more arid climate, would have retained straight hair. But they do not have straight hair. In fact their peppercorn hair is more different to straight hair than is the common type of afro-kinky hair found in most parts of Africa.

^^No dumbass. Because peppercorn hair can also
be an adaptation to hot environments. African
people CAN vary in how they look or adapt, and they
DO move around the continent from climatic zone to zone.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by claus3600:
Y@lioness
'yes, anything can be anything at any time with the magical people we call Africans. It's an example of African biodiversity
I mean diversity (but skip the "bio" part, that's anthroscape lingo)'

Why do people continue to debate you? You're such a fuckwit who's main intention is to bait and provoke.

**** off!!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:

quote:

---

Wikipedia:
Diop published his technique and methodology for a melanin dosage test in scholarly
journals. Diop used this technique to determine the melanin content of the Egyptian
mummies. Forensic investigators later adopted this technique to determine the "racial
identity" of badly burnt accident victims.

---

That this new technique was later adopted by the U.S. forensic department to determine the
racial identity of badly burnt accident victims and has never acknowledged the author of this test;
Cheikh Anta Diop...is ironic but not surprising...

---

Wally do the basic research, in forensics race estimates use no method related to melanin. Your comment is complete nonsense. They use cranial and skeletal analysis.
In your your example, if the person was badly burned there would be no skin to test anyway. If some white person were burnt to a crisp you'd probably say they were black.
If some part of the person was not burnt there would be no need for a test.
Don't look now here's some guys with plenty of melanin:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
If the question was asked were the Egyptians very dark skinned the answer would be that original skin color is difficult to be certain about based on mummies.
Based on the art most Egyptians are depicted as medium dark, some lighter others darker. Nubians more often but not always depicted very dark.

"dark skinned" or "brown" is descriptive.

"Black" and "white" are obviously racial terms and different terms from "dark skinned" and "light skinned".

Example:


The term "blacks" here is not a simple description of any dark skinned person.
For example:

The people below, would not be included in the above "black" or "white" category as per this bone indices study

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
"Eyeballing" AEian murals, statues etc
AEians were undoubtedly extremely dark people.

Infact, as black as equatorial Africans.

---

rather than a faded version of chocolate brown, most AE in the art had a medium reddish brown skin tone, a reddish brwon tone that is not uncommon in modern Egypt. Some appear lighter, others darker.
Obviously as per the art they were not represented as "extremly"
dark as equatorial Africans. Why would you say this?
One of the common tones used by the AE's to portray Nubians is black and you don't see groups (I said groups) of AE's portrayed in this extremely dark color. The vast amjority are portrayed a brick brown color:

most typical ancient Egyptian skin color (hair however is extremely dark):


extremely dark typical Nubian color


^^^^obvious difference, you can't be serious

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:

Most had curly straight hair, a few had kinky hair. Most had "sharp noses", a few had "flat noses". It is 50/50 for the full lips vs thin lips.

Bottom line - ALL were black. Which makes sense after all they came from the South (Sudan) and Sahara areas.

---

is this a list of "black traits" and you are concluding from this list

that "Bottom line - ALL were black" ?

or are you not making such a connection?

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:

And unlike many here I believe extremely kinky hair is a NEW evolutionary adaptation. Which means original Africans(AMH) probably had straightish hair when they lived in the plains of the Sahara and East Africa.

---

this would mean that Africans who continued to live in these climates for long periods, example Khosians in an even more arid climate, would have retained straight hair. But they do not have straight hair. In fact their peppercorn hair is more different to straight hair than is the common type of afro-kinky hair found in most parts of Africa. [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hammer:
Diop was a radical s cholar out on the edge. His work has been riddled by criticism in recent years. You should know that Wally or is the above piece just another wallyism?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
...this posting, which I inadvertently started as a new topic, should have
actually been posted here because it reflects the continuing scientific
investigations stemming from the 1974 Cairo conference...It's an update:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
This site was provided by Nehesy. I used Google translate to give us the
English translation from the French...

Letter from Cairo

quote:

---

SOME GENETIC FEATURES OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS

As part of research conducted by the Cairo University in collaboration
with the Higher Council of Antiquities, it has been possible to achieve the
anthropological characteristics of the Pharaohs.

According to preliminary indications, we reached a number of traits of the
Pharaohs. It was possible to identify genes for size, color and eye color and
hair of the king in the Pharaonic era in which samples were collected. They
were placed on mummies in sarcophagi. A group of researchers has been
able to separate those genes that have proven that the ancient Egyptians
were not taller as previously thought. Their size was rather average, with
the exception of Ramses II, whose analysis of genes has proven to be cut.

It has also been demonstrated that his skin was brown and his hair was black,
not red. The color red has been found on his mummy is due to a dye (probably henna).
His eyes were black with a slight tinge of brown.

Amenhotep III was short of stature, the color of his skin was a light brown.
His eyes and his hair was black dark. These features show that the kings were
related. All the kings at that time had a common origin in the family tree of the
royal family. It is possible to determine a precise dates and times in the future.
This research will confirm certain anthropological traits that have been studied
before on the Pharaonic mummies. This will give preliminary indications about
the traits, diseases and characteristics of the Pharaohs.

---

---

---

The Egyptian Information Service
lists no letter entitled:


CERTAINS TRAITS GENETIQUES DES EGYPTIENS ANCIENS

Or the english translation:

SOME GENETIC FEATURES OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS


_______________________________________


The so called "Melanin Dosage Test" doesn't exist. It's a myth and not part of forensics.

Wally's stuck in 1974.

.

---

You have to be a complete bag full of chicken ****.

There are quite a view studies on melanin and pigmentation. Done on micro level. So yes is it does exist. It's not even worth discussing this matter.
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
Indeed there have been some studies showing large
amounts of melanin in some Egyptian specimens.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

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Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
adapatations that are different from other adaptations are different because the people that have a particular adapatation stay in one place long enough to be affected by the environment. I have been noting your silly remarks, basically you say a trait can be related to a given environment but it can also be a product of the opposite enviroenment.

^^You are living proof that manure can sprout legs and walk.
You are trying to come up with some rigid model where African
people stay in their "assigned" climatic zones so you can tag them
with a 'racial' stereotype. Real life and adaptation does not work that way
stupid. Traits can be found in different environments because
people move around, or the trait can function neutrally or positively
in other environments. Broad noses and dark skin can function
quite well on high altitude East African mountains for millennia.
Your failure to accept this basic reality only exposes you for
the dunderhead you are, and exposes your bogus stereotypical
race ideas.

Basically you obscure and fuzz any connection between a specific environment and a particular adaptive trait.

Dumbass, tropical Africa has numerous micro-climes. It does
not not parcel itself out into little race checkboxes of the
traits you think Africans "truly" have. This has already been
demonstrated to you for well over a year on ES with study after study.
Are you always this stupid, or are you making the usual special effort?

the final icing of jackassedness you layer the cake with is that "Africans are not bound to any one locataion" they are free to move anywhere they want. They're aloud to go where they want to go. They frolick through the desert on Mondays but spend weekends in their jungle residences. In the middle of the week they have picnics in the Savanah or climb the snowy peak of Kilamanjaro. Peppercorn hair can help you perspire in the rain forest or it can protect you from mountain frosts. Everything is multi-pupose so don't try to pin us down.

^^lol.. see here is where you expose your bogus "race" model for
Africans again. Yes, surprising as it may seem to your idiotic
little brain- quoting your own words: Africans "are free to move anywhere
they want. They're aloud to go where they want to go."

This is precisely right and is zone of the reasons your idiotic search for
little apartheid climatic zones where Africans are "supposed" to remain,
"in their place" so they can be checked off into little racial boxes
fails.


If this were the case all Africans would look the same, constantly moving around not to "bound" to any one spot long enough to develop an adaptation to any one spot.

You absolute dufus. When they were handing out brains, you
musta thought they said 'trains' and asked for a slow one.
Think dummy think! Even if Africans never moved around but just
stayed put, according to your model, then they STILL would
NOT "all have looked the same" because some would have
"stayed put" in desert, some in savannah, some in jungle,
some in high altitude plateau, some on coastal zones. All
these areas would STILL have made for some adaptations in time
even if people never went anywhere. In addition, since tropical
Africa is the most genetically diverse area on the planet,
built in genetic variation would STILL have made for different
looking people even if they all conformed to your "climate
apartheid" model and "stayed put."


lioness productions..

More like blithering idiot's manure "products"...
 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
zorohan, you are finally getting it, the variation in Africans is due to the fact that different Africans lived in different African climates long enough to take on characteristics specific to those climates.
The fact that they had an ancient passport to go to other places if they want to is irrelevant to this point. In others words you might live on the continent but you aint no 'gyptian
just like a Swede aint no Greek.

lioness productions
 

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Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness:
zorohan, you are finally getting it, the variation in Africans is due to the fact that different Africans lived in different African climates long enough to take on characteristics specific to those climates.
The fact that they had an ancient passport to go to other places if they want to is irrelevant to this point. In others words you might live on the continent but you aint no 'gyptian
just like a Swede aint no Greek.

lioness productions

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
"Eyeballing" AEian murals, statues etc
AEians were undoubtedly extremely dark people.

Infact, as black as equatorial Africans.

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rather than a faded version of chocolate brown, most AE in the art had a medium reddish brown skin tone, a reddish brwon tone that is not uncommon in modern Egypt. Some appear lighter, others darker.
Obviously as per the art they were not represented as "extremly"
dark as equatorial Africans. Why would you say this?
One of the common tones used by the AE's to portray Nubians is black and you don't see groups (I said groups) of AE's portrayed in this extremely dark color. The vast amjority are portrayed a brick brown color:

most typical ancient Egyptian skin color (hair however is extremely dark):


extremely dark typical Nubian color


^^^^obvious difference, you can't be serious

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:

Most had curly straight hair, a few had kinky hair. Most had "sharp noses", a few had "flat noses". It is 50/50 for the full lips vs thin lips.

Bottom line - ALL were black. Which makes sense after all they came from the South (Sudan) and Sahara areas.

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is this a list of "black traits" and you are concluding from this list

that "Bottom line - ALL were black" ?

or are you not making such a connection?

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:

And unlike many here I believe extremely kinky hair is a NEW evolutionary adaptation. Which means original Africans(AMH) probably had straightish hair when they lived in the plains of the Sahara and East Africa.

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this would mean that Africans who continued to live in these climates for long periods, example Khosians in an even more arid climate, would have retained straight hair. But they do not have straight hair. In fact their peppercorn hair is more different to straight hair than is the common type of afro-kinky hair found in most parts of Africa. [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lyin' king:
Troll Patrol:

blah blah blah

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness:
zorohan, you are finally getting it, the variation in Africans is due to the fact that different Africans lived in different African climates long enough to take on characteristics specific to those climates.
The fact that they had an ancient passport to go to other places if they want to is irrelevant to this point. In others words you might live on the continent but you aint no 'gyptian
just like a Swede aint no Greek.

lioness productions

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quote:

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

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Originally posted by Wally:

quote:

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Wikipedia:
Diop published his technique and methodology for a melanin dosage test in scholarly
journals. Diop used this technique to determine the melanin content of the Egyptian
mummies. Forensic investigators later adopted this technique to determine the "racial
identity" of badly burnt accident victims.

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That this new technique was later adopted by the U.S. forensic department to determine the
racial identity of badly burnt accident victims and has never acknowledged the author of this test;
Cheikh Anta Diop...is ironic but not surprising...

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Wally do the basic research, in forensics race estimates use no method related to melanin. Your comment is complete nonsense. They use cranial and skeletal analysis.
In your your example, if the person was badly burned there would be no skin to test anyway. If some white person were burnt to a crisp you'd probably say they were black.
If some part of the person was not burnt there would be no need for a test.
Don't look now here's some guys with plenty of melanin:

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What is it you try to say? lol

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quote:

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
I have posted a 2011 study to some members, on melanin and pigmentation. A study done on micro level. (remember you folks always love to go in to minor details when it comes to Africans.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Truthcentric:

quote:

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
I have posted a 2011 study to some members, on melanin and pigmentation. A study done on micro level. (remember you folks always love to go in to minor details when it comes to Africans.)

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Where did you post this?

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lyinass:

most typical ancient Egyptian skin color (hair however is extremely dark):


extremely dark typical Nubian color


^^^^obvious difference, you can't be serious.

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And here are a group of Nubians as well



Lyinass bullsh|t productions cleaned up.
 

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Posted by Byron Bumper (Member # 19992) on :
 
BEEP BEEP SCREECH KISS CUSS
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 

Move it up.
 

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