quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: I've tried to be reasonable, but because of the constant ''Negro'' strawmen, over-reliance art, thick headed-ness and unwillingness to learn, I'm going to give it the silent treatment from now on.
I don't like to repeat myself and end up in long 20 page threads rehashing the same information over and over to convince someone who is either *****ng with us, or has a serious learning impediment.
I would appreciate it if you all stopped replying to this person in this thread. Just ignore it.
Thanx
Like I said, don't do it You'll fogg this thread up by obscuring the on-topic points with her non-sensicle rambling. Every good post is followed by five of her shitty ones, and now people will have to wade through all her digressions to read the good stuff.
Notice how this topic clearly shows why one should stop relying on art, and what does the birdbrained nutcase do? It still relies on art, insisting they couldn't have been ''negroes''. When it is never claimed **In this thread** that this was the case.
As Anguish has remarked, it basically has two tricks it can do -Nitpicking the art depictions where a black origin is the least discernable and bombarding it with ignorance, like why it can't be ''negroid'' -Talking about migrational patterns, and using distance as the ultimate decisive principle when ascertaining the most likely population sources. But when statues are inmistacably black (Tuts bust), one can always seek it as far as India and Mesopotamia. All of a sudden her distance logic can be broken, on basis of nitpicked art. LOL.
According to that line of thinking, Madagascar should've been swarming with Arabs, and Austronesian speakers would've been absent. Australia would've been shared with Indonesians, heck, why not Amerindians? The Maldives should have been peopled by Dravidian speakers, since they domninate in the south. I could go on and on.
It has already proven to be a birdbrain, just let her dwell in her ignorance and ''I can do it myself anthropology''. It is free to do so.
^Birdbrain: Who needs liguistics, archeology, physical anthropology and genetics? We have art, don't we?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Let us not forget the rediculous conclusions people came up with when they relied on AE art. Mind you, this diversity is substantiated by absolutely no sub discipline of Anthropology
quote: In Petrie's study of the Egyptian race we are introduced to a possible classification element in great abundance which cannot fail to surprise the reader.
Petrie . . . published a study of the races of Egypt in the Pre-Dynastic and Proto-Dynastic periods working only on portrayals of them. Apart from the steatopygian race, he distinguishes six separate types: an aquiline type representative of a whiteskinned Libyan race; a 'plaited beard' type belonging to an invading race coming perhaps from the shores of the Red Sea, a 'sharp-nosed' type almost certainly from the Arabian Desert: a 'tilted-nose' type from Middle Egypt; a 'jutting beard' type from Lower Egypt; and a 'narrow-nose' type from Upper Egypt. Going on the images, there would thus have been seven different racial types in Egypt during the epochs we are considering. In the pages which follow we shall see that study of the skeletons seems to provide little authority for these conclusions. (p.391)
posted
^it is especially laughable when you note that the same person (Petrie) came to the following conclusion when he studied the remains:
quote: "this dynasty, the first to give Egyptian civilization its almost definitive form and expression, was of Sudanese Nubian origin. The equally Negro's features of the protodynastic face of Tera Neter and those of the the first king to unify the valley, also prove that this is the only valid hypothesis. Similarly, the Negro's features of the Fourth Dynasty Pharaohs, the builders of the great pyramids, confirm this." Petrie the founder of pre-dynastic Nile Valley archaeology, excavated at Nagada and Ballas in Upper Egypt nearly 100 years ago, unearth nearly 1200 pre-dynastic graves. It was Petrie's conviction that there was "a peaceful", if not a united, rule all over Egypt and Nubia [Sudan] during the entire pre-dynastic period." The Making of Egypt, 1939, William Petrie.
Yes, he was talking about the dynasty that was contemporary with these reserve heads:
^But hey, Let us forget what the makers looked like, what their kings looked like, and let us speculate away based on nitpicked art
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Notice how this topic clearly shows why one should stop relying on art...
why...
As Anguish has remarked....
a black origin....
-Talking about migrational patterns, and using distance as the ultimate decisive principle when ascertaining the most likely population sources. But when statues are inmistacably black (Tuts bust), one can always seek it as far as India and Mesopotamia. All of a sudden her distance logic can be broken, on basis of nitpicked art. LOL.
basketballhead this is getting funny,
you're talking to yourself now and it's a little loopy
It's noticeable when you don't like the point being made you say referring to art is worthless but when types like Dehooti do it you lay silent like a sleeping panda.
And then with the scientific terminology: "black origin" and "statues are inmistacably black" (lol-"inmistacably")
And you knowledge of geography is lacking describing Mesopotamia as "far off". Mesopotamia and the Levant are both closer to Lower Egypt than Sudan and Ethiopia, come on son
and trying to get famous off the lioness' brand name, shame
note: you will not be able to provide any extension of the quote you refered to:
"In the pages which follow we shall see that study of the skeletons seems to provide little authority for these conclusions. (p.391) "
nor can you produce the title from which the quote is supposed to be from
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: "this dynasty, the first to give Egyptian civilization its almost definitive form and expression, was of Sudanese Nubian origin. The equally Negro's features of the protodynastic face of Tera Neter and those of the the first king to unify the valley, also prove that this is the only valid hypothesis. Similarly, the Negro's features of the Fourth Dynasty Pharaohs, the builders of the great pyramids, confirm this." Petrie the founder of pre-dynastic Nile Valley archaeology, excavated at Nagada and Ballas in Upper Egypt nearly 100 years ago, unearth nearly 1200 pre-dynastic graves. It was Petrie's conviction that there was "a peaceful", if not a united, rule all over Egypt and Nubia [Sudan] during the entire pre-dynastic period." The Making of Egypt, 1939, William Petrie.
Of course, these 4th dynasty kings were not of Sudanese origin, and if they were, it wasn't from their features that they deduced it, since AE and several Nubian tribes were indistinguishable. It was just their way of admitting what was an absolute shock to them. When you say they are of Sudanese origin, you don't have to extend all that ''Africanness'' to the general population.
The following quote shows how common these features were to not only Nubia, but to the general population, and particularly pre-dynastic and old kingdom Egypt:
quote:James E. Harris, Kent R. Weeks, X-raying the Pharaohs, 1973.
Seqenenra Tao: "His entire lower facial complex, in fact, is so different from other pharaohs that he could be fitted more easily into the series of Nubian and Old Kingdom Giza skulls than into that of later Egyptian kings. Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian--that is, non-Egyptian--origin for Seqenenra and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stand in need of considerable re-examination".
Yes, the same old kingdom, 4th dynasty Giza people that made these heads. Obviously, they weren't depicting themselves, and if they did, it was abstract art.
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: Yes, the same old kingdom, 4th dynasty Giza people that made these heads. Obviously, they weren't depicting themselves, and if they did, it was abstract art.
posted
^ Her critique is nothing more than stupidity.
quote:Originally posted by the lyingass: sorry, I'll have to start using the term "African morphology" vs. ""Middle Eastern morphology" etc.
Don't get mad because your notions of "caucasoid" and "negroid" are debunked garbage. African morphology is specific to African populations. There's no such thing as "Middle Eastern" morphology because populations of the Middle East are diverse and are of various origins including some from Africa.
quote:and we'll all know what is really being talked right? wink,wink
stone, not wood next time thanks
You moron, this is stone also...
yet you reject it simply because it does not conform to your caca-zoid notions.
Even then, your caca-zoid notions FAIL you!
quote: Queen Nodjmet
____________________________________________________ The Elder Lady mummy from KV35 Amenophis II's tomb believed to by Queen Tiye
And your point? I hope you are not going to rehash the ridiculous theory that she was not black based on her hair. It's been beaten to death that wavy hair form is not uncommon among some Africans AND that embalming chemicals used in mummification.
"First identified as Queen Tiye The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism...
..The Elder Lady possesses an occipital bun comparable to Mesolithic Nubians."
Drs. James Harris & Edward Wente, X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (1980).
Here's a painted bust of Tiye
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: I've tried to be reasonable, but because of the constant ''Negro'' strawmen, over-reliance art, thick headed-ness and unwillingness to learn, I'm going to give it the silent treatment from now on.
I don't like to repeat myself and end up in long 20 page threads rehashing the same information over and over to convince someone who is either *****ng with us, or has a serious learning impediment.
I would appreciate it if you all stopped replying to this person in this thread. Just ignore it.
Thanx
quote:Like I said, don't do it You'll fogg this thread up by obscuring the on-topic points with her non-sensicle rambling. Every good post is followed by five of her shitty ones, and now people will have to wade through all her digressions to read the good stuff.
Notice how this topic clearly shows why one should stop relying on art, and what does the birdbrained nutcase do? It still relies on art, insisting they couldn't have been ''negroes''. When it is never claimed **In this thread** that this was the case.
As Anguish has remarked, it basically has two tricks it can do -Nitpicking the art depictions where a black origin is the least discernable and bombarding it with ignorance, like why it can't be ''negroid'' -Talking about migrational patterns, and using distance as the ultimate decisive principle when ascertaining the most likely population sources. But when statues are inmistacably black (Tuts bust), one can always seek it as far as India and Mesopotamia. All of a sudden her distance logic can be broken, on basis of nitpicked art. LOL.
According to that line of thinking, Madagascar should've been swarming with Arabs, and Austronesian speakers would've been absent. Australia would've been shared with Indonesians, heck, why not Amerindians? The Maldives should have been peopled by Dravidian speakers, since they domninate in the south. I could go on and on.
It has already proven to be a birdbrain, just let her dwell in her ignorance and ''I can do it myself anthropology''. It is free to do so.
^Birdbrain: Who needs liguistics, archeology, physical anthropology and genetics? We have art, don't we? [/QB]
Sorry. I didn't read the above until recently. I agree; arguing with the nincompoop troll is futile and gets one nowhere. So she is on the ignore list.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: "this dynasty, the first to give Egyptian civilization its almost definitive form and expression, was of Sudanese Nubian origin. The equally Negro's features of the protodynastic face of Tera Neter and those of the the first king to unify the valley, also prove that this is the only valid hypothesis. Similarly, the Negro's features of the Fourth Dynasty Pharaohs, the builders of the great pyramids, confirm this." Petrie the founder of pre-dynastic Nile Valley archaeology, excavated at Nagada and Ballas in Upper Egypt nearly 100 years ago, unearth nearly 1200 pre-dynastic graves. It was Petrie's conviction that there was "a peaceful", if not a united, rule all over Egypt and Nubia [Sudan] during the entire pre-dynastic period." The Making of Egypt, 1939, William Petrie.
Of course, these 4th dynasty kings were not of Sudanese origin, and if they were, it wasn't from their features that they deduced it, since AE and several Nubian tribes were indistinguishable. It was just their way of admitting what was an absolute shock to them. When you say they are of Sudanese origin, you don't have to extend all that ''Africanness'' to the general population.
The following quote shows how common these features were to not only Nubia, but to the general population, and particularly pre-dynastic and old kingdom Egypt:
quote:James E. Harris, Kent R. Weeks, X-raying the Pharaohs, 1973.
Seqenenra Tao: "His entire lower facial complex, in fact, is so different from other pharaohs that he could be fitted more easily into the series of Nubian and Old Kingdom Giza skulls than into that of later Egyptian kings. Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian--that is, non-Egyptian--origin for Seqenenra and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stand in need of considerable re-examination".
Yes, the same old kingdom, 4th dynasty Giza people that made these heads. Obviously, they weren't depicting themselves, and if they did, it was abstract art.
We have to remember that "Nubians" themselves were diverse in features. If you recall Bronze Age Nubian skulls were once classified by Brace along with Somalis into a more "caucasian" cline due to features like small narrow noses etc. There are even books and articles which describe the inhabitants of Lower Nubia to be "caucasoid" like the Egyptians whereas those of Upper Nubia were "negroid". Then again, Western writings described skulls as far south as Kenya and Tanzania as "caucasoid" as well, which why the use of such racial labels is INVALID and USELESS. Unfortunately some people (and trolls) are slow to catch on.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: We have to remember that "Nubians" themselves were diverse in features.
Although not as diverse enough to match those of black American actors like Will Smith. lol
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: "this dynasty, the first to give Egyptian civilization its almost definitive form and expression, was of Sudanese Nubian origin. The equally Negro's features of the protodynastic face of Tera Neter and those of the the first king to unify the valley, also prove that this is the only valid hypothesis. Similarly, the Negro's features of the Fourth Dynasty Pharaohs, the builders of the great pyramids, confirm this." Petrie the founder of pre-dynastic Nile Valley archaeology, excavated at Nagada and Ballas in Upper Egypt nearly 100 years ago, unearth nearly 1200 pre-dynastic graves. It was Petrie's conviction that there was "a peaceful", if not a united, rule all over Egypt and Nubia [Sudan] during the entire pre-dynastic period." The Making of Egypt, 1939, William Petrie.
Of course, these 4th dynasty kings were not of Sudanese origin, and if they were, it wasn't from their features that they deduced it, since AE and several Nubian tribes were indistinguishable. It was just their way of admitting what was an absolute shock to them. When you say they are of Sudanese origin, you don't have to extend all that ''Africanness'' to the general population.
The following quote shows how common these features were to not only Nubia, but to the general population, and particularly pre-dynastic and old kingdom Egypt:
quote:James E. Harris, Kent R. Weeks, X-raying the Pharaohs, 1973.
Seqenenra Tao: "His entire lower facial complex, in fact, is so different from other pharaohs that he could be fitted more easily into the series of Nubian and Old Kingdom Giza skulls than into that of later Egyptian kings. Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian--that is, non-Egyptian--origin for Seqenenra and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stand in need of considerable re-examination".
Yes, the same old kingdom, 4th dynasty Giza people that made these heads. Obviously, they weren't depicting themselves, and if they did, it was abstract art.
We have to remember that "Nubians" themselves were diverse in features. If you recall Bronze Age Nubian skulls were once classified by Brace along with Somalis into a more "caucasian" cline due to features like small narrow noses etc. There are even books and articles which describe the inhabitants of Lower Nubia to be "caucasoid" like the Egyptians whereas those of Upper Nubia were "negroid". Then again, Western writings described skulls as far south as Kenya and Tanzania as "caucasoid" as well, which why the use of such racial labels is INVALID and USELESS. Unfortunately some people (and trolls) are slow to catch on.
I agree, hence why I said ''several Nubian tribes were indistinguishable''. The impression the quote gave me though, was that the old Giza material in question were of the more broad featured morphology. Like, Knumn Nakth broad. Because medium or slightly broad wouldn't have distinguished Toa II, we have all seen the 18th dy xrays. Then again, the region on his skull that was so extraordinary for his time may have just been restricted to his mandible, as the quote does specify that region. Whatever the case was, both scenarios would have made the old kingdom Giza samples too African-like, to have only one broad featured face among the reserve heads, IMO.
To me that either means they were loosely based on actual ancient Egyptians, but modified to fit a standard, that the reserve heads were based on foreigners, or that they were made off the top, based on no one.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Man the beatdown on lioness continues. What can be said but that really Artwork is a loose way of finding out how the AE looked like. There is all other disciplines that prove the African foundation of AE.
As for the reserve heads if it really is done for foreigners then I can see why they look the way the look.
BUT
I will also state that there is plenty of East Africans who would look like the reserve heads if they were made into statues. Keep on Keeping On.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
^Yeah my thoughts too There is just something that makes me uncomfortable about them. But maybe it is just me.
Thnx for respecting my request DJ and the others who stopped replying to her in this thread.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote: 'Falkenburger reopened the anthropological study of the Egyptian population in a recent work in which he discusses 1,787 male skulls varying in date from the old, Pre-Dynastic to our own day. He distinguishes four main groups' (p. 421). The sorting of the predynastic skulls into these four groups gives the following results for the whole predynastic period: "36% negroid, 33% Mediterranean, 11% Cro-Magnoid and 20% of individuals not falling in any of these groups but approximating either to the Cro-Magnoid or to the negroid'.
^ Ignoring the outdated typological approach, and using it for whatever relevance it has for this thread, one should be able to say that if AE artwork was truly representative, it should NOT be ethnically ambiguous, even without paint, in at least 36% of all artwork. After seeing alot of AE art, I am positive this is not the case, but I can't prove it. What I CAN prove, and what is visible, is that for the Giza reserve heads, this is most definitely NOT true.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Djehuti you are using the term “African morphology” please define that and compare it to an example of a “non-African morphology” Then we can be clear what is meant by that term. If all morphologies are African then there would be not point in saying “African morphology” just “human morphology” , When I said post stone (or plaster heads) I wasn’t referring to Patuamenap which is obviously in stone. I was referring to the continued posting, after that, of wood coffins. These coffins are generally stylized and generic and don’t capture unique likenesses. Sometimes the coffins originally made for one king is used for a different king (or even queen as someone pointed out ) . Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed is a fair match Patuamenap but he is not really slit lipped like both the sculpture of Patuamenap and the seated figure we have been talking about. What is the amount of Eurasian admixture in modern Somalis and Ethiopians such as he? As well what is amount of Eurasian admixture of ancient Libyan and Algerian Berbers, people on the same longitudinal parallel as Egyptian? . The man in the green shirt is a fairly good match for the seated figure. Does that necessarily mean they are of the same lineage? I don’t know. What is the man’s genetic ancestry? Probably no one here has that information.
Djehuti how can you be in harmony with Kalonji? You constantly post art to try to prove an ideological race oriented point, the same several pieces over and over again in numerous threads. Yet Kalonji makes no protest of it and you do this as much or more than I do. (why is that?)
Look at the mummy believed to by Queen Tiye. It does not have the prognosticating jaw as does the wood bust people so often like to post to prove a black (er,, I mean an "African morphology") Egypt, again, this bust, art (which violates the Kalongy rule book) The Tiyre mummy also does not have the prognosticating jaw that Queen Nodjmet has. Look at how the mouth area protrudes on Queen Nodjmet and how her chin draws back. Now look at Tiyre, her mouth does not protrude and her chin does not draw back. I am considering not using art to prove morphological points about Egypt on the condition that Djehuti agrees to do the same and not keep posting those same seven or so art works that you post in ever other comment you make. Also Kaslongi would have to not post reconstructions because that too is made by an artist. One who speculates on the fleshy parts of the face which are uncertain to estimate and, no doubt, speculating hair type and skin color. Unlike Djehuti least I vary the art. Kalongi is hypocritical in using art, both coffins and forensic art to try to prove one shouldn't use art. People who had never seen the person when they were alive he implies are more credible artists who just have a skull or mummy to work with.
Anyway we have this photo of an elder Sudanese woman posted by dana of which there is no genetic background information. She is a fairly good match for the Queen Tiye mummy. She has the right hair, her lips are thin and she does not have the prognosticating jaw/mouth just like the mummy believed to be Queen Tiye does not have the prognosticating jaw.
All of this is arbitrary and anecdotal. Look at what is being done. You go on a photo search to match modern people to mummies or sculpture. You limit it to people South of Egypt never North as a possibility (bias). You find a person somewhat of a match and figure the case is closed, the person has dark skin so it's all good. Yet I can go just as close to Egypt, the near North to the Levant/Mediterranean, much closer in fact than Somalia to Egypt photos of people who have medium brown skin which are just as good as matches yet you would never consider that as being possible. My position is more flexible. I say the people could be of “stock” similar to countries near to Egypt in any direction including your Sudanese, Ethiopians (also Libyans ! - , West of Egypt , another area you exclude as being similar in morphology to Egypt). If everybody on this site were white supremacists I would be posting some of the photos you are posting. Not as proof but just as possibility in a range of possibilities.
Dejhuti, you are one of the worst offenders on violating Kalongy’s law against over reliance on art. You have been doing it longer than I have and more repetitiously and for some reason Kalongy, hypocritically gives you and many others a pass for it.
Setting that aside and chilling for a moment (breathe) Kalongy made an interesting, seemingly unsupported speculative comment I wonder if you agree with it:
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: Yes, the same old kingdom, 4th dynasty Giza people that made these heads. Obviously, they weren't depicting themselves
as to the original skin tone of either head on both it could be anything light to dark and whatever the skin tone it doesn’t really prove much. Some Mediterranean Greeks or Palestinians may have the same skin tone as Egyptians- or SSA's. The majority of the heads were discovered by the American Egyptologist George Andrew Reisner, who excavated a number of mastaba tombs to the west of the Great Pyramid of Giza. He identified these mastabas as belonging to royal family members of the pharaoh Khafra
quote: Originally posted by Djehuty "First identified as Queen Tiye The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors,receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism...
..The Elder Lady possesses an occipital bun comparable to Mesolithic Nubians."
Drs. James Harris & Edward Wente, X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (1980).
LOL Djehuty, I'm telling you man. Certain people in this thread are so much in denial that it's just debasing.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote: Originally posted by Djehuty "First identified as Queen Tiye The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors,receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism...
..The Elder Lady possesses an occipital bun comparable to Mesolithic Nubians."
Drs. James Harris & Edward Wente, X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (1980).
LOL Djehuty, I'm telling you man. Certain people in this thread are so much in denial that it's just debasing.
Occipital bun
A morphological term used to describe a prominent bulge, or projection, of the occipital bone at the back of the skull is called an Occipital bun. The term is most often used in connection with scientific descriptions of classic Neanderthal crania. While common among many of mankind's ancestors, primarily robust relatives rather than gracile, the protrusion is relatively rare in modern Homo sapiens.There are still many human populations which often exhibit occipital buns. A greater proportion of early modern Europeans had them, but prominent occipital buns even among Europeans are now relatively infrequent.
this is hilarious AlTakruri is over in the - was Cleo black thread , about to post, as he says:
"To follow, time permitting, every supposed Cleo ancient art work"
doing a reverse Kalonji, putting up art to dismiss the modern reconstruction, lol Is Kalonji going to complain? hell no
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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A morphological term used to describe a prominent bulge, or projection, of the occipital bone at the back of the skull is called an Occipital bun. The term is most often used in connection with scientific descriptions of classic Neanderthal crania. While common among many of mankind's ancestors, primarily robust relatives rather than gracile, the protrusion is relatively rare in modern Homo sapiens. There are still many human populations which often exhibit occipital buns. A greater proportion of early modern Europeans had them, but prominent occipital buns even among Europeans are now relatively infrequent.[/qb]
Neanderthal aside, since that was a different species altogether. You do realize that the earliest modern Europeans i.e. the first humans to enter Europe still looked no different from Sub-Saharan Africans??
"Nor does the picture get any clearer when we move on to the Cro-Magnons, the presumed ancestors of Modern Europeans. Some were more like present-day Australians or Africans, judged by objective anatomical categorizations, as is the case with some early modern skulls from the Upper Cave at Zhoukoudian in China" Chris Stringer and Robin McKie
The above is not all surprising since modern humans originate from AFRICA.
Of course occipital bun is just ONE characterstic, what about the rounded forhead, narrow skull, ANB plane measurements, and prognathism all associated with black Africans. And please do not bring up PALEOLITHIC populations who look like Africans! LOL
By the way Neanderthal as the first European adapted species had cold adapted short limbs in contrast to the modern humans whose limbs were longer and definitely not like the Egyptians and other Africans whose extra long limbs were described by anthropologists as "super-negroid"!
quote:doing a reverse Kalonji, putting up art to dismiss the modern reconstruction, lol Is Kalonji going to complain? hell no
I think you are confused with yourself. Oh great confused one. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: LOL Djehuty, I'm telling you man. Certain people in this thread are so much in denial that it's just debasing.
It sure it! Though I'm not one to complain.
By the way, I have another explanation for the Giza reserve heads with 'fine' features. I just remembered Batrawi's studies of predynastic skulls, where those of Lower Egypt tend to have lower nasal indices less prognathism compared to those of Upper Egyptians. Thus, one can say that the reserve heads showing more so-called "cockazian" features must represent Lower Egyptians while the more so-called "negroid" ones are those of Upper Egyptians. By the way, recall that there is actually a large collection of reserve heads with "negroid" features, however these were once labled as 'Heads of Foreigners'. In all likely hood, such head actually represented not only native Egyptians but those from the south who unified Egypt.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Of course occipital bun is just ONE characterstic, what about the rounded forhead, narrow skull, ANB plane measurements, and prognathism all associated with black Africans. And please do not bring up PALEOLITHIC populations who look like Africans! LOL
what prognathism? Why bother talking about features associated with black Africans? If I show a person without such features you'll just say they must have been Somalian. All bases covered.
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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A morphological term used to describe a prominent bulge, or projection, of the occipital bone at the back of the skull is called an Occipital bun. The term is most often used in connection with scientific descriptions of classic Neanderthal crania. While common among many of mankind's ancestors, primarily robust relatives rather than gracile, the protrusion is relatively rare in modern Homo sapiens. There are still many human populations which often exhibit occipital buns. A greater proportion of early modern Europeans had them, but prominent occipital buns even among Europeans are now relatively infrequent.
Neanderthal aside, since that was a different species altogether. You do realize that the earliest modern Europeans i.e. the first humans to enter Europe still looked no different from Sub-Saharan Africans??
"Nor does the picture get any clearer when we move on to the Cro-Magnons, the presumed ancestors of Modern Europeans. Some were more like present-day Australians or Africans, judged by objective anatomical categorizations, as is the case with some early modern skulls from the Upper Cave at Zhoukoudian in China" Chris Stringer and Robin McKie
The above is not all surprising since modern humans originate from AFRICA.
Of course occipital bun is just ONE characterstic, what about the rounded forhead, narrow skull, ANB plane measurements, and prognathism all associated with black Africans. And please do not bring up PALEOLITHIC populations who look like Africans! LOL
By the way Neanderthal as the first European adapted species had cold adapted short limbs in contrast to the modern humans whose limbs were longer and definitely not like the Egyptians and other Africans whose extra long limbs were described by anthropologists as "super-negroid"!
quote:doing a reverse Kalonji, putting up art to dismiss the modern reconstruction, lol Is Kalonji going to complain? hell no
I think you are confused with yourself. Oh great confused one. [/QB]
You explain yourself for no reason Since it is not just noted that her crania had a prominent occiputal region. It was noted that it was reminiscent of Nubians LOL. The comparison with Europeans was TOTALLLY out of the blue. FAIL.
..The Elder Lady possesses an occipital bun comparable to Mesolithic Nubians."
You don't achieve anything by arguing with the likes of them, as they reply selectively, and no matter how many times they fail and get refuted, they'll just find another segue into making claims again, making you look stupid for biting everytime. Don't know if you've noticed, but this is Lioness vs MOM all over again.
A wise man told me don't argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
Notice how it will segue into something irrelevant any minute now, but no acknowledgement of it's mistakes regarding the marxillary prognatism, receeding chin and protruding incisors of Tiye, three things it all denied.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Indeed, it is beyond me how someone could be so STUPID!
quote:Originally posted by the lyingdumbass:
what prognathism? Why bother talking about features associated with black Africans? If I show a person without such features you'll just say they must have been Somalian. All bases covered.
Oh my God! Are you illiterate or are you just f*cking stupid?! I already cited a study of the Elder Lady mummy above!
"The Elder Lady First identified as Queen Tiye The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism..." Drs. James Harris & Edward Wente, X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (1980).
You should kill yourself for being so stupid! Your death will only ensure humanity's collective IQ will go up by about 100 points. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: We have to remember that "Nubians" themselves were diverse in features.
Although not as diverse enough to match those of black American actors like Will Smith. lol
But apparently diverse enought to match those of black American actors like Pam Grier.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: maxillary prognathism
Maxillary prognathism.
Why didn't you put all this other photo on google for "maxillary prognathism" - Your Lyin'_ss.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Of course occipital bun is just ONE characterstic, what about the rounded forhead, narrow skull, ANB plane measurements, and prognathism all associated with black Africans. And please do not bring up PALEOLITHIC populations who look like Africans! LOL
Woman from Sudan
what prognathism? Why bother talking about features associated with black Africans? If I show a person without such features you'll just say they must have been Somalian. All bases covered.
No we don't have to go all the way to Somalia just to Nubia and Sudan.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Lyin' - I think its about time you change your name to "badger", because that's just what you've become or should I say you've been. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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dana, what do you guess the background of this woman is? Looks unusual to me. Post some other elder Sudanese women. Is her hair typical?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: maxillary prognathism
Maxillary prognathism.
Why didn't you put all this other photo on google for "maxillary prognathism" - Your Lyin'_ss.
^ he he he
caught again.
how can you say caught when the situation is the reverse.
You have posted two pictures of maxillary prognathism. The conclusion: maxillary prognathism does not indicate race and the occipital bun tends toward European but could also be South African.
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
LOLOLOLOLOL Absolute stupidity, and total ignorance are rearing up their ugly head again!
Directed to everyone else who does not know Features that predominate in a given population may manifest secludedly in a ANY given population. This is no secret, the question of the matter is, how often does this occur? And accompanied by what other features?
For one, the fat white kid lacks the steep jaw, protruding incisors, rounded forehead, receeding chin etc. On all counts, his features go in the opposite direction!!!
Total epic fail,
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: LOLOLOLOLOL Absolute stupidity, and total ignorance are rearing up their ugly head again!
Directed to everyone else who does not know Features that predominate in a given population may manifest secludedly in a ANY given population. This is no secret, the question of the matter is, how often does this occur? And accompanied by what other features?
For one, the fat white kid lacks the steep jaw, protruding incisors, rounded forehead, receeding chin etc. On all counts, his features go in the opposite direction!!!
Total epic fail,
Of course. Such faulty logic is not surprising from the Lyingdumbass who was already caught lying when she said the Elder Lady mummy had no prognathism when scientists who examined her skull said she does! What other stupidity can the dummy offer?
quote:Originally posted by the lyingassDUMMY:
how can you say caught when the situation is the reverse.
You have posted two pictures of maxillary prognathism. The conclusion: maxillary prognathism does not indicate race and the occipital bun tends toward European but could also be South African.
Again you make no sense! Your argument is strawman since nobody ever said prognathism indicates 'race' as nobody but YOU even believes in the debunked notion of 'race'. Maxillary prognathism like many forms of prognathism occurs among many populations in the world but mostly those indigenous to the tropics i.e. BLACK peoples and though it may occur among Europeans it is NOT at all common enough to be associated with Europeans, you idiot. Why else do you think prognathism was associated with so called "negroids" and blacks in the first place, stupid?? Also, occipital bun does NOT even occur nowhere near prognathism among Europeans as your own source states the only Europeans it occurred in was early Europeans of Paleolithic times which I showed looked like Africans, you dumbass!
That is why you are caught red handed with your panties down LYING your ass off! LOLPosts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ Uh huh Let's get back on topic for more material as promised.
Tjenmutengebtiu (Jeni from now on)
A complete series of cross-sectional computed tomography (CT) scans were obtained of a mummy of an Egyptian priestess, Tjenmutengebtiu, (Jeni), who lived in the twenty-second Dynasty (c. 945-715 BC). The purpose of this joint British Museum and St. Thomas’ Hospital project was effectively to ‘unwrap’ a mummy using crosssectional X-rays. Jeni is encased in a beautifully decorated anthropomorphic cartonnage coffin.
posted
LOL After seeing my last post, someones self imposed ''Berlin wall'' is starting to show cracks!
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: Wow, i am an egyptian myself, and you can find all those faces in Egypt and Egypt only, AE and Modern Egyptian are of the same stock, AE are not black, and how dare you guys compare my people to those spear chuckers in cameroon and other west/central african countries like that
You are either lying through your teeth...or you don't know what your own people living in Egypt look like. Robert Bauval commented on Red Ice Radio that there are Beduoin people living in Egypt today who are PURE Black! Not Sudanese, not East African slaves (as Middle Easterners like to play down the Blacks amongst them), they are NATIVE Egyptians. To be fair, Bauval also said there are very light-skinned people born in Egypt too (he himself was born & raised there) but that Black Egyptians represent what he called an "original strain." Since you're supposedly Egyptian...do you deny your Black brothers and sisters currently exist? How about we ask our very own Ausar who is also Egyptian and dark-skinned. He'll tell you about the rural folk...since you apparently believe in the myth that all modern Egyptians look the same which is nothing more than a lie perpetuated by Zahi Hawass and the media.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
^ Hey moron, who here made any comparisons to Somalis??! Almost ALL of our comparisons are made with Nubians which if you forgot, inhabited the southern areas of what is today modern day Egypt. Even Dana's pictures of Beja people are people who live in Egypt. All of these peoples are BLACK Africans and all live in Egypt since Egypt is IN Africa! Yet YOU on the other hand go out of your way to compare Egyptians to people of INDIA!! What the f*ck is that?!
So apparently you are a hypocrite as well as a liar.
Oh, and of course there was no wall dividing Africa from Asia which is how the modern humans were able to leave Africa to populate Asia in the first place, and even after the initial OOA migrations Africans were still leaving the continent into Asia hence the Natufians in the Levant and Semitic languages, dummy!
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ I believe that in lyingass snake's case, there was a wall separating Africa and Asia but that wall had plenty of gates that opened one way-- for Asians to enter Africa but not the other way around. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: Wow, i am an egyptian myself, and you can find all those faces in Egypt and Egypt only, AE and Modern Egyptian are of the same stock, AE are not black, and how dare you guys compare my people to those spear chuckers in cameroon and other west/central african countries like that
You are either lying through your teeth...or you don't know what your own people living in Egypt look like. Robert Bauval commented on Red Ice Radio that there are Beduoin people living in Egypt today who are PURE Black! Not Sudanese, not East African slaves (as Middle Easterners like to play down the Blacks amongst them), they are NATIVE Egyptians. To be fair, Bauval also said there are very light-skinned people born in Egypt too (he himself was born & raised there) but that Black Egyptians represent what he called an "original strain." Since you're supposedly Egyptian...do you deny your Black brothers and sisters currently exist? How about we ask our very own Ausar who is also Egyptian and dark-skinned. He'll tell you about the rural folk...since you apparently believe in the myth that all modern Egyptians look the same which is nothing more than a lie perpetuated by Zahi Hawass and the media.
Come on Scorpion we all know Upper Egyptians look like this..
Trust me, Skeptic says he goes to Egypt all the time, you belive me right..LMAO
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I believe that in lyingass snake's case, there was a wall separating Africa and Asia but that wall had plenty of gates that opened one way-- for Asians to enter Africa but not the other way around.
That was a bull's eye!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I believe that in lyingass snake's case, there was a wall separating Africa and Asia but that wall had plenty of gates that opened one way-- for Asians to enter Africa but not the other way around.
That was a bull's eye!
you have an eye for bull
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
the anatomical gucci finding begins with the observation that there was a "remarkable racial difference in the louis vuitton features presented by each. These differences are so pronounced that it is almost impossible to chanel convince oneself
Posts: 3 | From: china | Registered: Aug 2010
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Elderly woman of Sudan 
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Oh my God! Are you illiterate or are you just f*cking stupid?! I already cited a study of the Elder Lady mummy above!![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
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