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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :

Begley: King Tut's DNA Reveals a More Manly Pharaoh

Sharon Begley

A study being published this afternoon trumpets an analysis supposedly revealing how the boy pharaoh, King Tutankhamen, died, but for my money the study’s conclusion about how he looked is more intriguing.

Both results emerge from what the researchers call “molecular Egyptology,” in this case an analysis of DNA extracted from the bones of 11 royal mummies of the New Kingdom. The scientists took two to four DNA samples from each mummy, including Tut, who died at age 19 in about 1324 B.C., the 10th year of his reign. Comparing the genetic fingerprints allowed them to identify one previously unknown mummy as Queen Tiye, mother of the pharaoh Akhenaten and grandmother of Tutankhamen, another as Akhenaten (Tut’s father) himself, and a third as Tutankhamen’s mother, the researchers are reporting in tomorrow’s issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association.

The DNA analysis also turned up genes specific to Plasmodium falciparum, the malaria parasite, in Tut and three other mummies. The scientists, led by the colorful and controversial Zahi Hawass, secretary-general of Egypt’s Supreme Council of Antiquities, infer that Tut suffered from avascular bone necrosis, a condition in which poor blood supply weakens or destroys an area of bone, plus malaria—a fatal combination. Tut’s tomb contained canes and what the scientists call “an afterlife pharmacy,” supporting the idea that he suffered from a condition that hobbled him.

Hawass has made headlines before for his theories of how Tut died, including (in 2006) a thigh fracture that became fatally infected, so the cause-of-death part of this research gives me a sense of déjà vu. (If you want more on this front, however, the Discovery Channel will air King Tut Unwrapped this coming Sunday, Feb. 21, and Monday, Feb. 22. I haven’t seen it, but be forewarned that some of Hawass’s previous TV productions have been more showmanship than scholarship.)

More interesting are the conclusions about the mummies’ appearance in life. Depictions of Tut and other royalty from this period show them as somewhat feminized, or at least androgynous. That led to speculation that the royal family tree was riddled with a hormonal disease that caused gynecomastia (excessive breast development in men), or Marfan syndrome, which causes patients to be tall and thin, with slender, graceful, tapering fingers—like several of the royals. But CT scans showed no signs of either. (Further evidence against a feminizing disorder—and here let me simply quote the paper— is that “the penis of Tutankhamen, which is no longer attached to the body, is well developed.”)

The feminized depictions are therefore likely to be what the researchers call “a royally decreed style most probably related to the religious reforms of Akhenaten. It is unlikely that either Tutankhamen or Akhenaten actually displayed a significantly bizarre or feminine physique.” In other words, the faces and forms so familiar to museumgoers and amateur Egyptologists may be no more than artistic license.

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :

'Malaria and weak bones' may have killed Tutankhamun

So not a blow to the head or murder conspiracy by vengeful Amum priest. so is the case closed ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8516425.stm

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :

^ Well it looks that way. It was in 2006 that scientists presented findings that the cause of his death was an infection due to a broken bone that became systemic. I really want to know if Tut and his family were carriers of the disease Marfan syndrome or if his father Akhenaton had it. Also, I notice they never mentioned any genetics concerning population affinities.

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

There is a series of articles on the National Geo web site. In one of those articles they stated that none of them had Marfan syndrome, nor did they resemble the statues that represented them as feminine.

They did not mention population affinities because it is not an issue. Hawass was correct that the younger lady was Tut's mother and that the red headed elder lady was in fact Queen tiye.

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:
There is a series of articles on the National Geo web site. In one of those articles they stated that none of them had Marfan syndrome, nor did they resemble the statues that represented them as feminine.

Interesting. So there was no Marfan syndrome meaning I was correct then that the elongated facial features of Akhenaton are just typical elongated Africans.

quote:
They did not mention population affinities because it is not an issue. Hawass was correct that the younger lady was Tut's mother and that the red headed elder lady was in fact Queen tiye.

Of course population affinities is not an issue at all those who have no problem with Egypt's African identity, but it may be for others like yourself. If the younger lady is indeed Tut's mother then that would maker her Kiya. And apparently the elder lady is verified to be Tiye. By the way, even Hawass scoffs at the idea that she was a "redhead" in life. It was explained to you many times that the original hair pigment is lost after the embalming process and thousands of years under arid conditions.

Posted by Narmer Menes (Member # 16122) on :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/news/tutankhamun-now-we-know-who-the-mummys-mummy-was-1901730.html - Another good article. Also mentions that Marfan Syndrome or gynecomastia is a write-off... I guess desperate Eurocentrics will have to imagine other tropical diseases to explain away inconvenient features!

BTW, it's funny to see these desperate Eurocentrics still hollering about red hair this, and red hair that! Even Hawass knows that argument is ludicrous... I'm sure they even try to attribute red hair to Ramses... the pharaoah who lived to his ripe old 90's! LOL, show me a single white man with ANY hair colour at the age of 60! Give it a break hammer... no pun intended... Why Egypt is officially R.I.P... If I was you, I'd align myself with 'brown' Egypt like the intelligent Eurocentrics... this is the closest claim to African glory you're gonna get... that and 'Night at the Museum'....

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:
There is a series of articles on the National Geo web site. In one of those articles they stated that none of them had Marfan syndrome, nor did they resemble the statues that represented them as feminine.
Interesting. So there was no Marfan syndrome meaning I was correct then that the elongated facial features of Akhenaton are just typical elongated Africans.

quote:
They did not mention population affinities because it is not an issue. Hawass was correct that the younger lady was Tut's mother and that the red headed elder lady was in fact Queen tiye.
Of course population affinities is not an issue at all those who have no problem with Egypt's African identity, but it may be for others like yourself. If the younger lady is indeed Tut's mother then that would maker her Kiya. And apparently the elder lady is verified to be Tiye. By the way, even Hawass scoffs at the idea that she was a "redhead" in life. It was explained to you many times that the original hair pigment is lost after the embalming process and thousands of years under arid conditions.

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

Djehuti, According to the article there were no elongated features thus you were not correct.

Hawass dies not scoff at her red hair, he is the one who announced it on the Discovery channel special last year.

You know Djehuti, shrinks offer help for ideologues who have cultish inclinations.

You position about Tiye's hair is little more than a lie, you simply say it so many times you actually start to believe it.

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:
There is a series of articles on the National Geo web site. In one of those articles they stated that none of them had Marfan syndrome, nor did they resemble the statues that represented them as feminine.

The feminine features are not only postulated from his statues, but also in his body, if KV55 is really him of course. There is still doubt because of the young appearance of this skull, it doesn't match with akhenatons long reign.

KV55 below

features of KV55:

quote:
Later re-examinations of the remains confirmed Smith's original identification of the mummy as belonging to a young male (although with feminine trends) but pushed the estimated age of death back to around 20 years

and:

quote:
But when anatomist Grafton Elliot Smith examined the skull and bones in Cairo a few months later he concluded that they were those of a young male, with wide hips ,

But also

quote:
Reconstruction of the facial features of the skull Kv55 also indicated that there was no resemblance with Akhenaten's representation on his monuments . It must be remembered though, that Akhenaten's representation's are highly stylised.

Reconstruction of KV55

Seems to me like a far cry from Akh. Whoever he was, he was a son of Amenhotep III and Tiye, that's for sure.

Kalonji

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

They said in the article that the KV55 mummy was Akhenaten based on the dna.

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

^So what are you saying, that they can distill from the dna of a skeleton what his name was?

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

You can check it out. Several sites carry the article. Perhaps they got DNA from a tooth.

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

LOL
Please tell me you're joking Hammer, names are not extracted from DNA. They found out that KV55 was the descendant of Tiye and Amenhotep III, and that king Tut was the son of KV55. That only eliminates the theory that Tut is the son of Amenhotep III. The posibillity that KV55 = Smenkare or another son of Amenhotep III is according to my knowledge still liable.

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

Smenkhkare and his wife Princess Meritaten, note the similarities with the reconstruction + the fact that he is walking with a walking aid, just like king Tut, according to the recent dna study.

Kalonji

Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Narmer Menes:
I'm sure they even try to attribute red hair to Ramses... the pharaoah who lived to his ripe old 90's! LOL, show me a single white man with ANY hair colour at the age of 60!

LOL

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:

Djehuti, According to the article there were no elongated features thus you were not correct.

LOL The article never said Akhenaton didn't have elongated features. It merely mentioned that Marfan syndrome hypothesis was raised based on features like tall, thin, slender, with tapering fingers. However such features are elongated features common to Africans which the Egyptians were!

quote:
Hawass does not scoff at her red hair, he is the one who announced it on the Discovery channel special last year.

Really. I never heard Hawass say anything about any ancient Egyptian let alone royal that was a redhead when living. In fact, I recall him complaining about the notion that Egyptians would be redhead or blonde when they obviously are not of European descent.

quote:
You know Djehuti, shrinks offer help for ideologues who have cultish inclinations.

They sure do, which is why I recommended one to YOU! Remember?

quote:
You position about Tiye's hair is little more than a lie, you simply say it so many times you actually start to believe it.

LOL Nope. My position was supported many times in this forum with evidence that I grow tired of showing you unless you want to believe that Celtic looking people were the royals of an African nation. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:

Smenkhkare and his wife Princess Meritaten, note the similarities with the reconstruction + the fact that he is walking with a walking aid, just like king Tut, according to the recent dna study.

Kalonji

Tut's paternal grandparents

Tut's father

Tut's half-sisters

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VGMsZBdykrk/SefsETmAP6I/AAAAAAAAGqc/FKStBWBkvrg/s400/mural-of-Akhenaton%27-daughters.jpg

Tut

No white people let alone redheads. [Big Grin]

Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:

Smenkhkare and his wife Princess Meritaten, note the similarities with the reconstruction + the fact that he is walking with a walking aid, just like king Tut, according to the recent dna study.

Kalonji

Never even noticed the walking cane before..Wow. So Tut suffered from Club foot...interesting.

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

Djehuti, Go back and read the article again. This is what you people do. You start altering facts to suit your cultish ideology. The article said that the Amarna males were not N O T not feminine and elongated.

You never offered any evidence about Tiy' red hair...I did. You are not going to read the Ion microscope data because it shatters your cultish illusions.

You live in a dream world and have a sack over your head that filters everything through an afrocentric maze.

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

Kalonji, Obviouly the Hawass team disagrees with you. They have tabbed KV55 as Akhenaten. Whu don't you take it up with them afroloon.

Look, It is a reasonable poition to take. If he is the father of tut and the son of Tiye and Amenhotep III and there is no other male that can occupy that position then KV55 is Akhenaten.

Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :

^^^^^^^
Cant the Mods in this Forum Ban this Troll?? Is Altakruri a Mod?? Who ever the Mod is Ban Hammer already?? This B.S is getting ridiculous...

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

Lets ban Jari. He makes zero contribution to the conversation. He has never presented a properly sourced response to any topic since I have been here. The lights are on in Jari's head but nobody is home.

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:
Kalonji, Obviouly the Hawass team disagrees with you. They have tabbed KV55 as Akhenaten. Whu don't you take it up with them afroloon.

Let's just take a look at the table then, can you point out to me where you can read akhenaton? Why didn't they say Akhenaton instead of KV55, like they did for instance with Amenhotep III, Thuya and Yuya? Or let me guess, the table is made up by Afroloons too, huh?

Let's also take a look at what your master who you keep referring to all the time has said:

quote:

In support of this lineage, the DNA study also traces a direct line from Tutankhamun through the KV 55 mummy to Akhenaten’s father Amenhotep III.

and

quote:
Tutankhamun’s father was the “heretic” king, Akhenaten, whose body is now almost certainly identified with the mummy from KV 55 in the Valley of the Kings, said Hawass, secretary general of Supreme Council of Antiquities.

Who is the loon now?

Even when talking Egyptology, you still can't make a valid contribution. Extracted DNA can only tell relations with other extracted DNA and since the ancient Egyptians ambiguously called the descendants of the pharao: son of God, you know Tut is royal, but not what the name of his father is specifically. The fact that you seem to think that dna will resolve this issue by extracting Dna from KV55 tooth, says alot about you.

We are not talking skeletal studies, and still your comprehension skills are lacking. No context now to use his ''lack of context'' excuses. Poor thing. I guess we can again add your ignorance to the stinking heap of lies, distortions and ignorance I compiled ealier. LOL you have no relevance here whatsoever, except for debunking purposes that is. How does it feel to literally be used as a piñata by everyone? You get smacked around, smacked around, and when you run off like you usually do, al the lurkers and learners can reap the rewards, which is: learning, and seeing that whatever is anti-hammer, is usually the truth.

Kalonji

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jari Ankhamun:
Never even noticed the walking cane before..Wow. So Tut suffered from Club foot...interesting.

I noticed it unconciously, but I never paid the attention to it it deserves. Thats why this was the first images that came to mind when I read the Dna study that was talking about Tut's walking difficulties.

Kalonji

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

So Kalonji, I have the choice of taking the word of an afroloon or the hawass team? Is that my choice?

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

^Like I said, garbage in, garbage out.

I could give two flying mummy toes about what you make of what I posted, piñata. I have already told you that your master doesn't hold that position.
I guess its more likely a choice between being Hammer vs being capable of understanding what I and your master have said.

Kalonji

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

Go read the articles. I find it interesting that you are trying to be so exact on this when you never use proper research to back up your points.

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

LOL
There he goes again with his mechanical repitition of the same exact sentences, in the same exact order of words.

Robot

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

Well, Talking to a robot would be easier than trying to communicate with you.
My question remains because you are uneducated and refuse to learn. What I am asking of you is what ANY liberal arts or Science department would ask if you were in their program. When you do research use current scholarship from top scholars in that field to make your case.

Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :

quote:
Originally posted by anguishofbeing:

quote:
Originally posted by Narmer Menes:
I'm sure they even try to attribute red hair to Ramses... the pharaoah who lived to his ripe old 90's! LOL, show me a single white man with ANY hair colour at the age of 60!
LOL

Ramses was the main one of the Pharaohs they used to point to as having red hair. Wonder if it was Hammer's "Ion microscope". That's hilarious if he truly was 90 when he died! [Big Grin]

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :

No, I'm not a mod. You can get a moderator by
clicking the

icon at the bottom of each post
or by going to the EGYPTOLOGY homepage and
clicking either of the mods named at the top left.
Anyway, afaik, it's impossible to ban someone.

quote:
Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
^^^^^^^
Cant the Mods in this Forum Ban this Troll?? Is Altakruri a Mod?? Who ever the Mod is Ban Hammer already?? This B.S is getting ridiculous...

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by commander flamboyant:
Well, Talking to a robot would be easier than trying to communicate with you.

You mean robotically saying the same irrelevant things allows you to ignore research, pretend to not have suffered scholarly beatdowns etc. even when its happening right in front of you? You said Hawass was certain, I quoted him above as saying that he is almost certain. How our exchange (that seems to never have accessed rge tiny content in your skull), and more specifically, my citations, gels with ''never doing proper research'' is only understood in you spacey redneck head, Commander Flamboyant.

quote:
Originally posted by commander flamboyant:
My question remains because you are uneducated and refuse to learn.

Your question remains because your world view is distorted enough to not let the answer in. If your question cannot be answered when its right in front of you, I don't know what will. Also, this is not an issue of learning, KV55 could be Akhenaton, I'm keeping my options open while I'm waiting for conclusive evidence, that is what this is about. And a father/son relationship with KV55 and Tut + a father/son relationship with Amenhotep III and KV55 is not conclusive evidence that KV55 is Akhenaton. You know, people get more children, the thing they call brothers and sisters, ever heard of that?

quote:
Originally posted by commander flamboyant:
What I am asking of you is what ANY liberal arts or Science department would ask if you were in their program. When you do research use current scholarship from top scholars in that field to make your case.

You know what I read when you said that?
uidliscldisuhclushasldjlcduli
;h;uhohsaohoas;jnsjnlsadncjas

Because what you say is jibberish and has nothing to do with the fact that KV55 is still KV55. And that the only thing that is 100% certain, is that KV55 was the product of Amenhotep III and Tiye, and that Tut was the product of KV55. Expert speculation before this DNA test that Tut could've been the son of AmenhotepIII and the brother of Akhenaton is the only scenario that is 100% eliminated by this DNA test.
The table does not say Akhenaton, and neither does his DNA contain his name as you previously implied.

quote:
Originally posted by commander flamboyant:
is what I understand from you

You understand nothing, douchebag, you can't even read that table, nor do you understand what your master Hawass has said:

quote:

Tutankhamun’s father was the “heretic” king, Akhenaten, whose body is now almost certainly identified with the mummy from KV 55 in the Valley of the Kings, said Hawass, secretary general of Supreme Council of Antiquities.

Kalonji

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

"almost certainly" That does not leave much room for doubt.

My question at this point is can we expect you to start doing proper source work on your posts from now on?

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Commander Flamboyant:
"almost certainly" That does not leave much room for doubt.

There you have it, he is finally starting to get it even though I said the exact same thing earlier. For your information, another son of AmenhotepIII fits exactly within that window of doubt.

Just walk away while you still can have a tiny schred of dignity, and let the 50th scholarly beatdown that you just experienced by the hands of an ''Afroloon'' sink in.

Kalonji

Posted by e3b1c1 (Member # 16338) on :

acording to his 16 str he is probably r1b
so the european gook win again we just need the auther to confirmed that or denay it but thats what other forums points to that he was r1b
maybe back migration from wester asia maybe the same type like found in cameroon
regards e1b1b1c1

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

You are going to get the beatdown until you do it right. I just get tired or reading the non sourced crap you print.

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

When I read you post, I couldn't help but to burst out another apocalypse-like chuckle.

Anyone who used to watch the x-men animated series knows that those kind of elongated, low pitched, spine backwards stretching laughs are only reserved for the must rediculous sentiments

First Hawass is your revered scholar and ultimate source from where you base al your assumptions on, and now when he disagrees with you, all of a sudden my quotation directly from his mouth is ''non-sourced crap''?

Hammer, you are a joke and nothing more. A mere amusement and an example for everyone serious in learning how NOT to think/reason.
Keep responding and get your behind spanked even more

Kalonji

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :

^ Indeed, inconsistency is an obvious sign of irrationality. A quote from Hawass was also posted here before showing that Hawass like virtually all Egyptologists states the idea of any Egyptian being a redhead or blonde is ridiculous!

quote:
Originally posted by Hammered-brains:

Djehuti, Go back and read the article again. This is what you people do. You start altering facts to suit your cultish ideology. The article said that the Amarna males were not N O T not feminine and elongated.

Correction. The article stated that the Amarna males were not feminine! It didn't say they weren't elongated! The same DNA tests as you cited state that they didn't have Marfan syndrome either, meaning that their elongated features have nothing to do with any genetic disorder, supporting my logical claim that such features are simply consistent with elongated African types!

quote:
You never offered any evidence about Tiye' red hair...I did. You are not going to read the Ion microscope data because it shatters your cultish illusions.

And when have you ever offered evidence of ANYTHING??! And last time I checked, the ion microscopy results were for Ramasses NOT Tiye, whose results by the way NEVER said he was a 'red-head' but only that phaelomelanin was present, which doesn't mean much as phaelomelanin is present in minimal amounts in many dark-haired peoples including black Africans! You still have offered nothing to refute the evidence I and others put forth that embalming chemicals of mummification plus long term exposure in arid environments can alter hair color and/or texture.

Unless of course you want to make the case that these ancient Native American mummies below were redheads in life.

quote:
You live in a dream world and have a sack over your head that filters everything through an afrocentric maze.

LOL Actually that described YOU to a tee with the exception being of course that it is a eurocentric maze!

Now unless you can find anything to refute any of what I said above, I suggest you get involved in anymore logical conversations until you are both sober and psychologically treated with your racist delusions. [Embarrassed]

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :

Getting back to the topic...

It's been stated that the geneticists used nuclear DNA to establish familial relationships.

So who have they identified as Akhenaton?

quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:

Let's just take a look at the table then, can you point out to me where you can read akhenaton? Why didn't they say Akhenaton instead of KV55, like they did for instance with Amenhotep III, Thuya and Yuya? Or let me guess, the table is made up by Afroloons too, huh?

Let's also take a look at what your master who you keep referring to all the time has said:

quote:

In support of this lineage, the DNA study also traces a direct line from Tutankhamun through the KV 55 mummy to Akhenaten’s father Amenhotep III.
and

quote:
Tutankhamun’s father was the “heretic” king, Akhenaten, whose body is now almost certainly identified with the mummy from KV 55 in the Valley of the Kings, said Hawass, secretary general of Supreme Council of Antiquities.
Who is the loon now?

Even when talking Egyptology, you still can't make a valid contribution. Extracted DNA can only tell relations with other extracted DNA and since the ancient Egyptians ambiguously called the descendants of the pharao: son of God, you know Tut is royal, but not what the name of his father is specifically. The fact that you seem to think that dna will resolve this issue by extracting Dna from KV55 tooth, says alot about you.

We are not talking skeletal studies, and still your comprehension skills are lacking. No context now to use his ''lack of context'' excuses. Poor thing. I guess we can again add your ignorance to the stinking heap of lies, distortions and ignorance I compiled ealier. LOL you have no relevance here whatsoever, except for debunking purposes that is. How does it feel to literally be used as a piñata by everyone? You get smacked around, smacked around, and when you run off like you usually do, al the lurkers and learners can reap the rewards, which is: learning, and seeing that whatever is anti-hammer, is usually the truth.

Kalonji

Is it possible the body of KV55 considered too young to be Akhenaton is Smenkare?

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:

Reconstruction of KV55

Seems to me like a far cry from Akh. Whoever he was, he was a son of Amenhotep III and Tiye, that's for sure.

Kalonji

Actually, he does bear a striking resemblance to the depictions of Akhenaton, suggesting it is either him OR a close relative.

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuty:

Getting back to the topic...

It's been stated that the geneticists used nuclear DNA to establish familial relationships.

So who have they identified as Akhenaton?

No one. Altough they suspect that KV55 is Akhenaten.

quote:

Previously, speculations about Tutankhamun's parents were abundant because of the piecemeal evidence available before DNA testing. Tutankhamun had been thought to be the son of his grandparents, Amenhotep III and his Great Royal Wife Queen Tiye. Others claimed that he may have been a son of Amenhotep III, although not by Queen Tiye since she would have been around 50 at the time of his birth. Professor James Allen argued that Tutankhamun was more likely to be a son of the short-lived king Smenkhkare rather than Akhenaten.[11][12]

^If they didn't know the specific name of Tuts father before the 2010 DNA study, they still don't know it now. The only thing they DO know, and what was indeed revealed by the tests, is that KV55 was Tuts father. There is all sorts of back and forth arguing going on about whether or not KV55 is skeletally old enough to be Akhenaton and there is no conclusive evidence.

KV55 and King Tut reconstructions VERY similar. Now we know why.

Kalonji

Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :

Kalonji

the Back of the head of Tut and KV55 look similar.

It seems this guy is Tuts Father

Peace

Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :

Ha! Ha! Ha! King are you a smoker. . .of Canabis?

Using the shape of a skull to determine parentage. You guys are hilarious. I have seen sibling(3) with 3 different shape of heads. BTW same parents.

You guys are funny!!!!!!!!

Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :

xyyman

Maybe I am wrong.

What do you make of the pics?

Peace

Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :

I am not going to answer that. [Roll Eyes]

"paternity through skull shape" Gaaaaad!!

Posted by prmiddleeastern (Member # 14038) on :

I expected to see a DNA result, let say Y-DNA/MTDNA type results.

Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :

The DNA is out there on a few sites. It is R1b.

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by King:

Kalonji

the Back of the head of Tut and KV55 look similar.

It seems this guy is Tuts Father

Peace

Not only the backs of their heads look similar, NG (or was it DC?) showed that their crania have very similar dimensions when their profiles are superimposed on eachother. This caused them to believe that KV55 and Tut were either brothers or father/son, even before the recent DNA results.

Kalonji

Posted by GbohunOla Karelaiye (Member # 16969) on :

quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
I am not going to answer that.
"paternity through skull shape" Gaaaaad!!

My boy!!!

I have to disagree with you for once here.. Sometimes the skullshape is so similar between father/son it's unmistakeable...

I know a man with four sons and only one of them actually looks like him and the one that does look like him detests him even though he's practically his clone!!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:
The DNA is out there on a few sites. It is R1b.

Hammer, extracting DNA is not proper research, it doesn't provide the crucial historical context. I have already told you how to do proper research. You have to cite at least 5 different Egyptian historians that make the same claims and then cite the opposing views. Markers tell us nothing about history. We don't know how many people were involved. All you do is google up different snippets, you have to do proper research. You don't post research. Your research is not properly done and your points arent supported by the research you posted. You must let the data talk for itself and stop tying your own conclusions to it

^Hammer in a nutshell
Bwahahhahhwhahahah
Notice how he thinks its ok to do all of the above when the R1b claim isn't even made by scientists. Hammer you seriously are a total irrelevant fruitcake, and by subscribing to the premature unsubstatiated R1b claim, you've destroyed yourself and everything you stand for, (which is not much by the way).
Everything you stand for, and everything you have propagated while being here is summed up above, and by subscribing to the R1b claim you've totally abondoned your own values and codes. And in doing so, (letting the true Hammer come out) you've also confirmed my suspicion that those ''values'' were really just a smokescreen to not have to look at research posted here. I told you to stop running your mouth, yet you had to give your little irrelevant 2cents again. So here you go, another butt spanking by an ''Afroloon''.

Kalonji

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :

^ Please tell me you didn't notice this until now!-- Hammered-brains' hypocrisy that is!! LMAO [Big Grin]

True how whenever we discuss genetic markers he always dismisses it as something irrelevant to history even though they are the actual lineages of populations and thus their history! Now when there is just hearsay about Tut possessing a lineage associated with Europeans, the fool now shouts about it! [Big Grin]

This is just like his argument that it is silly to suggest that blacks or people of black African descent were ever present in Europe (Greece), yet he denies that the Egyptians who ARE Africans were black!! [Eek!]

Rationality is obviously not his strong point, but then again, racism is a mental disorder so there's nothing rational about it at all. [Embarrassed]

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :

HERE'S AN OLDER PHOTO OF TUT'S MUMMY BEFORE
HE LOST BOTH OF HIS HEADS...

Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :

Hammer wrote:

quote:
The DNA is out there on a few sites. It is R1b.

Well Hammer I need you to cite five accredited Greek historians who agree with you that Tut has R1b DNA or else I'll have to conclude that its sloppy scholarship on your part [Big Grin]

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuty:
^ Please tell me you didn't notice this until now!-- Hammered-brains' hypocrisy that is!! LMAO [Big Grin]

Notice? Yes. Total abandoning of his purported ways of doing ''proper research'' he claimed to stand for and know about so much? No. This was all the poor dude had left and now he is destroyed by his own withdrawal and subsequent employment of the same ''improper research'' he critisized so much.

What he did is the equivalent of Keita subscribing to ''true Negro'' or Mary Lefkowitz writing the foreword of Martin Bernal next book on the Africanity of Greece. Hammer officially destroyed himself, thats why he isn't responding in this thread. Where are you Hammer, whatever that is left of your reputation is plummeting in this thread. I'm talking below sub-zero values, LOL.

quote:
Originally posted by Wally
HERE'S AN OLDER PHOTO OF TUT'S MUMMY BEFORE
HE LOST BOTH OF HIS HEADS...

Both of his heads? What do you mean exactly..?

Kalonji

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:
Originally posted by Wally
HERE'S AN OLDER PHOTO OF TUT'S MUMMY BEFORE
HE LOST BOTH OF HIS HEADS...
Both of his heads? What do you mean exactly..?

Kalonji

...from Djehuti's opening exhibit

quote:
...(Further evidence against a feminizing disorder—and here let me simply quote
the paper— is that “the penis of Tutankhamen, which is no longer attached to
the body, is well developed.”)

Tut's head (#1) and his penis (head #2) are no longer attached to his body...this photo shows the previously intact king's body...

Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :

...

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :

^ I take it the anguishedhomosexual had some sly remarks about Tut's penis(?) Moving on...

quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:

Notice? Yes. Total abandoning of his purported ways of doing ''proper research'' he claimed to stand for and know about so much? No. This was all the poor dude had left and now he is destroyed by his own withdrawal and subsequent employment of the same ''improper research'' he critisized so much.

What he did is the equivalent of Keita subscribing to ''true Negro'' or Mary Lefkowitz writing the foreword of Martin Bernal next book on the Africanity of Greece. Hammer officially destroyed himself, thats why he isn't responding in this thread. Where are you Hammer, whatever that is left of your reputation is plummeting in this thread. I'm talking below sub-zero values, LOL.

Indeed. Hammered has always been the butt of jokes in this forum especially with his ridiculous hypocrisy. He complains about us not doing proper research for our claims when we cite evidence and reports from mainstream scholars and scientists left and right all the time whereas he NEVER does! Now the fool bring up this claim that Tut's Y-chromosome lineage is somehow R1b without citing any sources (although we've seen a couple of his so-called sources and they are nothing more than forums run by white racist loons like himself).

Hey if I didn't know any better, I'd say that now that scientists have gotten a hold of Tut's DNA, the nutty 'professor' is deep down in a state of panic and thus his latest fiasco in latching on to any internet rumors of Tut possessing European lineage is just his desperation to escape from the inevitable. LOL

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wally:
Tut's head (#1) and his penis (head #2) are no longer attached to his body...this photo shows the previously intact king's body...

^Lol

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuty:
Indeed. Hammered has always been the butt of jokes in this forum especially with his ridiculous hypocrisy. He complains about us not doing proper research for our claims when we cite evidence and reports from mainstream scholars and scientists left and right all the time whereas he NEVER does! Now the fool bring up this claim that Tut's Y-chromosome lineage is somehow R1b without citing any sources (although we've seen a couple of his so-called sources and they are nothing more than forums run by white racist loons like himself).

Lets see how he will worm himself out of this one.

Kalonji

Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :

King Tut may not have been black but he sho was a Negro.: )

http://www.physorg.com/news196516256.html

Posted by Men Kheper Ra (Member # 4547) on :

Wow dana marniche - if that is true - then eurocentrics have to find a different king to claim.

P.S. - Negro and Black are the same words - different dialects.

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Men Kheper Ra:
Wow dana marniche - if that is true - then eurocentrics have to find a different king to claim.

P.S. - Negro and Black are the same words - different dialects.

dana, I feel is totally capable of responding to you on her own behalf, however I can
give you my own interpretation of how I understood her remarks:

She is merely lampooning what is clearly an idiocy that is being propagated! We should
laugh with her at this utter silliness.

King Tutankhamen, a Black African negro, may have died of sickle cell anemia should be
of no shock, but should be of concern as a reasonable possibility to the scientific community,
since this disease appears to be a genetic reaction/protective mechanism for peoples
who reside in Malarial zones...

But here is where I joyously laugh with dana:

a) Where in ANYPLACE outside of Africa is there evidence of a precursor to Ancient
Egyptian Civilization? Why does all evidence exist of the precursor to Ancient Egyptian
Civilization lie to the south and to the fertile Sahara crescent in Africa?

b) If the Ancient Egyptians were White folks, why did they not speak a White folks language,
if even a pidgin version? The modern European invaders certainly didn't abandon their
English, French, Portuguese, (Yes!) Arabic, Afrikaaner, etc., tongues...

It's ALL bullcrap. It's Imperialism/colonialism seeking to justify and to perpetuate itself!

Here's something that we all should have learned in the 5th and 6th grades in school;
this was applied science and not social science; read it carefully and think:

Dominant and Recessive Genes

...think...

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :

I just came back from visiting the comments following the article it is hilarious one poster is claiming that the Egyptian authorities wont release the results because his dna is connected to Northern Europeans.
http://www.physorg.com/news196516256.html
go here ^ and someone then post Mathilda's blog as back-up... [Big Grin]

Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wally:

quote:
Originally posted by Men Kheper Ra:
Wow dana marniche - if that is true - then eurocentrics have to find a different king to claim.

P.S. - Negro and Black are the same words - different dialects.
[b]dana, I feel is totally capable of responding to you on her own behalf, however I can
give you my own interpretation of how I understood her remarks:

She is merely lampooning what is clearly an idiocy that is being propagated! We should
laugh with her at this utter silliness.

King Tutankhamen, a Black African negro, may have died of sickle cell anemia should be
of no shock, but should be of concern as a reasonable possibility to the scientific community,
since this disease appears to be a genetic reaction/protective mechanism for peoples
who reside in Malarial zones...

But here is where I joyously laugh with dana:

a) Where in ANYPLACE outside of Africa is there evidence of a precursor to Ancient
Egyptian Civilization? Why does all evidence exist of the precursor to Ancient Egyptian
Civilization lie to the south and to the fertile Sahara crescent in Africa?

b) If the Ancient Egyptians were White folks, why did they not speak a White folks language,
if even a pidgin version? The modern European invaders certainly didn't abandon their
English, French, Portuguese, (Yes!) Arabic, Afrikaaner, etc., tongues...

It's ALL bullcrap. It's Imperialism/colonialism seeking to justify and to perpetuate itself!

As to your explanation of what I said Wally, I'll have to say I couldn't have said it better. Thanks.

But as for colonialism and imperialism, I think it is more now a matter of Stormfrontism, AHistoricalForums, Mathildisms. It is such sites filled with amateurish misinterpretations of modern and early scholarship that are spreading much of the nonsense which neonazis and nationalists around the world now have picked up on, clung to and hung their political hats on. These people are then going on forums again and youtube etc. and repeating the same irrational and unrefereed nonsense.

I think this may be why you are seeing so many scholars nowadays are trying to come out with the truth or at least objective science. They are probably getting sick of it as much as any lover of truth -

Here's what I learned from mostly Western scientists this year.

1. Tut probably died of sickle cell (this was the ironic finds of the year so far)
2. Nefertiti's famous bust was a recast fake
3. Cleopatra's sister found to be noticeably African
4. mummies hair color and texture was modified thru chemicals ( I was actually told this long time ago by someone working at the University of Pennsyvlania museum but wasn't inclinded to believe it then).
5. Steve Martin the comedian who sang the song about Tut ("buried with a donkey, he's my favorite honky") turns out to be descended from black Americans - along with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama's mother
6. Ramses II found to be dark skinned with black and not red hair by University of Cairo analysts
7. Semitic language and culture comes from Ethiopia
8. Lemba Africans discovered to have more Kohen genes in gene pool than most European jewish persons
9. Cro-Magnon turns out to be not closely related to Europeans and "Cro-magnons are us" turns out to be European "folk tale" according to Brace and others
10.. Natufian purveyors of early agriculture in the Near East more related to Central Africans than Europeans or even so called East African "hamites"
11. Prototype of Stone Henge found in the Nubian desert south of Egypt
11. Not to mention the discovery that a lot of Egyptian scholars don't respect Zahi, LOL!

I can go on and on about the ironic discoveries but it would take a whole page.

All I can say is the Gods must be Crazy and laughing with us, or else they have grown so tired of the nonsense and being mad as h_ _ _ have decided to let all this information come forth within the scope of a decade. I've literally been laughing this past year and a half because of the info coming out largely thru Egypstsearch forums. Its hard not to when your picturing the desperation of the neo-nutties on other forums. [Smile]

Posted by Men Kheper Ra (Member # 4547) on :

quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:

quote:
Originally posted by Wally:

quote:
Originally posted by Men Kheper Ra:
Wow dana marniche - if that is true - then eurocentrics have to find a different king to claim.

P.S. - Negro and Black are the same words - different dialects.
[b]dana, I feel is totally capable of responding to you on her own behalf, however I can
give you my own interpretation of how I understood her remarks:

She is merely lampooning what is clearly an idiocy that is being propagated! We should
laugh with her at this utter silliness.

King Tutankhamen, a Black African negro, may have died of sickle cell anemia should be
of no shock, but should be of concern as a reasonable possibility to the scientific community,
since this disease appears to be a genetic reaction/protective mechanism for peoples
who reside in Malarial zones...

But here is where I joyously laugh with dana:

a) Where in ANYPLACE outside of Africa is there evidence of a precursor to Ancient
Egyptian Civilization? Why does all evidence exist of the precursor to Ancient Egyptian
Civilization lie to the south and to the fertile Sahara crescent in Africa?

b) If the Ancient Egyptians were White folks, why did they not speak a White folks language,
if even a pidgin version? The modern European invaders certainly didn't abandon their
English, French, Portuguese, (Yes!) Arabic, Afrikaaner, etc., tongues...

It's ALL bullcrap. It's Imperialism/colonialism seeking to justify and to perpetuate itself!

As to your explanation of what I said Wally, I'll have to say I couldn't have said it better. Thanks.

But as for colonialism and imperialism, I think it is more now a matter of Stormfrontism, AHistoricalForums, Mathildisms. It is such sites filled with amateurish misinterpretations of modern and early scholarship that are spreading much of the nonsense which neonazis and nationalists around the world now have picked up on, clung to and hung their political hats on. These people are then going on forums again and youtube etc. and repeating the same irrational and unrefereed nonsense.

I think this may be why you are seeing so many scholars nowadays are trying to come out with the truth or at least objective science. They are probably getting sick of it as much as any lover of truth -

Here's what I learned from mostly Western scientists this year.

1. Tut probably died of sickle cell (this was the ironic finds of the year so far)
2. Nefertiti's famous bust was a recast fake
3. Cleopatra's sister found to be noticeably African
4. mummies hair color and texture was modified thru chemicals ( I was actually told this long time ago by someone working at the University of Pennsyvlania museum but wasn't inclinded to believe it then).
5. Steve Martin the comedian who sang the song about Tut ("buried with a donkey, he's my favorite honky") turns out to be descended from black Americans - along with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama's mother
6. Ramses II found to be dark skinned with black and not red hair by University of Cairo analysts
7. Semitic language and culture comes from Ethiopia
8. Lemba Africans discovered to have more Kohen genes in gene pool than most European jewish persons
9. Cro-Magnon turns out to be not closely related to Europeans and "Cro-magnons are us" turns out to be European "folk tale" according to Brace and others
10.. Natufian purveyors of early agriculture in the Near East more related to Central Africans than Europeans or even so called East African "hamites"
11. Prototype of Stone Henge found in the Nubian desert south of Egypt
11. Not to mention the discovery that a lot of Egyptian scholars don't respect Zahi, LOL!

I can go on and on about the ironic discoveries but it would take a whole page.

All I can say is the Gods must be Crazy and laughing with us, or else they have grown so tired of the nonsense and being mad as h_ _ _ have decided to let all this information come forth within the scope of a decade. I've literally been laughing this past year and a half because of the info coming out largely thru Egypstsearch forums. Its hard not to when your picturing the desperation of the neo-nutties on other forums.

Excellent post!!!

Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :

You're right Dana and the discoveries will keep on coming! As the African origin of civilization sets in and reaches the mainstream, it'll become irrefutable. I'm just waiting for the media to catch up. The thing about Hawass is telling though, because people know the guy is full of **** and is not about truth.