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Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
 
Simple challenge.

If the ancient egyptians were black...

Find me a photo of a black woman with sallow-white skin like this:

 -

Princess Nefertiabet (26th century BC stele).
 
Posted by Selassie der könig (Member # 19572) on :
 
You can see that most of the paint has come off. Plus look at her braided hair. And then again she could be mixed with Asian.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:
Simple challenge.

If the ancient egyptians were black...

Find me a photo of a black woman with sallow-white skin like this:

 -

Princess Nefertiabet (26th century BC stele).

 -


Bye idiot.
 
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
 
^ You appear to be colour blind.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:
^ You appear to be colour blind.

^
You appear to be retarded.

 -


 -

 -


 -

Bye idiot.
 
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
 
^ Dark brown skin isn't sallow-white.

 -

Close up:

 -

Basically you loose. The 'lightest' Africans you could post (most of whom are not even negroid by the way) still have dark brown skin.

There is no such thing as a black women with skin as light as Nefertiabet's. It is a sallow-white or golden-white colour:

 -
 
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 
cassiterides you are blind All those women that troll posted are black ,they clearly are not white.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
Description

English: Slab stela of Old Kingdom Egyptian Princess Nefertiabet (dated 2590 - 2565 BC) from her tomb at Giza, painting on limestone, now in Louvre, France. Nefertiabet was a daughter of Kheops and sister of *Djedefra and **Khafra.

*  -
**  -


quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:
^ Dark brown skin isn't sallow-white.

 -

Close up:

 -

Basically you loose. The 'lightest' Africans you could post (most of whom are not even negroid by the way) still have dark brown skin.

There is no such thing as a black women with skin as light as Nefertiabet's. It is a sallow-white or golden-white colour:

 -

As I was saying, you are retarded.


Am J Phys Anthropol, 2008.

Stature estimation;anatomical method;regression formulae; Egyptians

Abstract

Trotter and Gleser's (Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 10 (1952) 469–514; Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 16 (1958) 79–123) long bone formulae for US Blacks or derivations thereof (Robins and Shute: Hum Evol 1 (1986) 313–324) have been previously used to estimate the stature of ancient Egyptians. However, limb length to stature proportions differ between human populations; consequently, the most accurate mathematical stature estimates will be obtained when the population being examined is as similar as possible in proportions to the population used to create the equations. The purpose of this study was to create new stature regression formulae based on direct reconstructions of stature in ancient Egyptians and assess their accuracy in comparison to other stature estimation methods. We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites. Living stature estimates were derived using a revised Fully anatomical method (Raxter et al.: Am J Phys Anthropol 130 (2006) 374–384). Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical. The newly generated Egyptian-based stature regression formulae have standard errors of estimate of 1.9–4.2 cm. All mean directional differences are less than 0.4% compared to anatomically estimated stature, while results using previous formulae are more variable, with mean directional biases varying between 0.2% and 1.1%, tibial and radial estimates being the most biased. There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formulae may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.20790/abstract


An examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development?


K. Goddea, b, Corresponding Author Contact Information

a Department of Anthropology, University of Tennessee


b Department of Science, South College

Abstract

Many authors have speculated on Nubian biological evolution. Because of the contact Nubians had with other peoples, migration and/or invasion (biological diffusion) were originally thought to be the biological mechanism for skeletal changes in Nubians. Later, a new hypothesis was put forth, the in situ hypothesis. The new hypothesis postulated that Nubians evolved in situ, without much genetic influence from foreign populations. This study examined 12 Egyptian and Nubian groups in an effort to explore the relationship between the two populations and to test the in situ hypothesis. Data from nine cranial nonmetric traits were assessed for an estimate of biological distance, using Mahalanobis D2 with a tetrachoric matrix. The distance scores were then input into principal coordinates analysis (PCO) to depict the relationships between the two populations. PCO detected 60% of the variation in the first two principal coordinates. A plot of the distance scores revealed only one cluster; the Nubian and Egyptian groups clustered together. The grouping of the Nubians and Egyptians indicates there may have been some sort of gene flow between these groups of Nubians and Egyptians. However, common adaptation to similar environments may also be responsible for this pattern. Although the predominant results in this study appear to support the biological diffusion hypothesis, the in situ hypothesis was not completely negated.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19766993


Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13

"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)...... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of negroid origin."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15804821


Wadi Kubbaniya (ca. 17,000–15,000 B.C.)

In Egypt, the earliest evidence of humans can be recognized only from tools found scattered over an ancient surface, sometimes with hearths nearby. In Wadi Kubbaniya, a dried-up streambed cutting through the Western Desert to the floodplain northwest of Aswan in Upper Egypt, some interesting sites of the kind described above have been recorded. A cluster of Late Paleolithic camps was located in two different topographic zones: on the tops of dunes and the floor of the wadi (streambed) where it enters the valley. Although no signs of houses were found, diverse and sophisticated stone implements for hunting, fishing, and collecting and processing plants were discovered around hearths. Most tools were bladelets made from a local stone called chert that is widely used in tool fabrication. The bones of wild cattle, hartebeest, many types of fish and birds, as well as the occasional hippopotamus have been identified in the occupation layers. Charred remains of plants that the inhabitants consumed, especially tubers, have also been found.

It appears from the zoological and botanical remains at the various sites in this wadi that the two environmental zones were exploited at different times. We know that the dune sites were occupied when the Nile River flooded the wadi because large numbers of fish and migratory bird bones were found at this location. When the water receded, people then moved down onto the silt left behind on the wadi floor and the floodplain, probably following large animals that looked for water there in the dry season. Paleolithic peoples lived at Wadi Kubbaniya for about 2,000 years, exploiting the different environments as the seasons changed. Other ancient camps have been discovered along the Nile from Sudan to the Mediterranean, yielding similar tools and food remains. These sites demonstrate that the early inhabitants of the Nile valley and its nearby deserts had learned how to exploit local environments, developing economic strategies that were maintained in later cultural traditions of pharaonic Egypt.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/wadi/hd_wadi.htm


*Wadi Halfa is present North Sudan.

*Wadi Kubbaniya is present Southern Egypt.


NUBIA AND EGYPT- Nubians and Egyptians were so close in various eras that they were virtually indistinguishable

Because they are in fact the same people.

“The ancient Egyptians referred to a region, located south of the third cataract the Nile River, in which Nubians dwelt as Kush.. Within such context, this phrase is not a racial slur. Throughout the history of ancient Egypt there were numerous, well documented instances that celebrate Nubian-Egyptian marriages. A study of these documents, particularly those dated to both the Egyptian New Kingdom (after 1550 B.C.E.) and to Dynasty XXV and early Dynasty XXVI (about 720-640 BCE), reveals that neither spouse nor any of the children of such unions suffered discrimination at the hands of the ancient Egyptians. Indeed such marriages were never an obstacle to social, economic, or political status, provided the individuals concerned conformed to generally accepted Egyptian social standards. Furthermore, at times, certain Nubian practices, such as tattooing for women, and the unisex fashion of wearing earrings, were wholeheartedly embraced by the ancient Egyptians." (Bianchi, 2004: p. 4)

'It is an extremely difficult task to attempt to describe the Nubians during the course of Egypt's New Kingdom, because their presence appears to have virtually evaporated from the archaeological record.. The result has been described as a wholesale Nubian assimilation into Egyptian society. This assimilation was so complete that it masked all Nubian ethnic identities insofar as archaeological remains are concerned beneath the impenetrable veneer of Egypt's material; culture.. In the Kushite Period, when Nubians ruled as Pharaohs in their own right, the material culture of Dynasty XXV (about 750-655 B.C.E.) was decidedly Egyptian in character.. Nubia's entire landscape up to the region of the Third Cataract was dotted with temples indistinguishable in style and decoration from contemporary temples erected in Egypt. The same observation obtains for the smaller number of typically Egyptian tombs in which these elite Nubian princes were interred.(Bianchi, 2004, p. 99-100)

Robert Bianchi ( 2004). Daily Life of the Nubians. Greenwood Publishing Group


Egyptians are in their root Hg E* and yes there is admixture, from less to more extend since Egypt was often invaded. For example, "The Copt samples displayed a most interesting Y-profile, enough (as much as that of Gaalien in Sudan) to suggest that they actually represent a living record of the peopling of Egypt. The significant frequency of B-M60 in this group might be a relic of a history of colonization of southern Egypt probably by Nilotics in the early state formation, something that conforms both to recorded history and to Egyptian mythology."--Hassan et al., (2008)


 -


"We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites... Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical... Intralimb indices are not significantly different between Egyptians and American Blacks...brachial indices are definitely more ‘African’... There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formula may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains." (" Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: A new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature ." Michelle H. Raxter, Christopher B. Ruff, Ayman Azab, Moushira Erfan, Muhammad Soliman, Aly El-Sawaf,(Am J Phys Anthropol. 2008, Jun;136(2):147-5

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.20790/abstract


I do understand your obsession with ancient Egypt. But it's not your history or even culture, your history and culture is at Europe, at the caves and forest of Europe.


By any chance pick one of these, and focus on that.


Celts
Gauls
Goths
Vandals(Asding, Siling Vandals, Alans, Suevi)
Visigoths
Franks
Teutonic(Deutsch)
Anglo-Saxon
Lombards
Osrogoths
Burgundians

You and your delusional white worldview.lol
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by kenndo:
cassiterides you are blind All those women that troll posted are black ,they clearly are not white.

He is blind, retarded and dumb as sh*t.

With those Botox enhancements. And tanning spray.


http://www.aaamc.net/BotoxCosmeticandDysport.en.html


I truly pity this individual. Who is obviously lonely and bored.
 
Posted by Omo Baba (Member # 18816) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by kenndo:
cassiterides you are blind All those women that troll posted are black ,they clearly are not white.

He is blind, retarded and dumb as sh*t.

With those Botox enhancements. And tanning spray.


http://www.aaamc.net/BotoxCosmeticandDysport.en.html


I truly pity this individual. Who is obviously lonely and bored.

LOL!

 -
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
This is not the image of a man, this is the image of a b*tchboy.

quote:
Originally posted by Omo Baba:
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by kenndo:
cassiterides you are blind All those women that troll posted are black ,they clearly are not white.

He is blind, retarded and dumb as sh*t.

With those Botox enhancements. And tanning spray.


http://www.aaamc.net/BotoxCosmeticandDysport.en.html


I truly pity this individual. Who is obviously lonely and bored.

LOL!

 -

I guess his boyfriend pulls him by his long stringy hair, into a lil' knot. While he rocks his pretty arse.
 
Posted by asante (Member # 18532) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Omo Baba:
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by kenndo:
cassiterides you are blind All those women that troll posted are black ,they clearly are not white.

He is blind, retarded and dumb as sh*t.

With those Botox enhancements. And tanning spray.


http://www.aaamc.net/BotoxCosmeticandDysport.en.html


I truly pity this individual. Who is obviously lonely and bored.

LOL!

 -

And he wonders why his still a virgin.

Stop posting this picture of him its making me depressed lol
 
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:
Simple challenge.

If the ancient egyptians were black...

Find me a photo of a black woman with sallow-white skin like this:

 -

Princess Nefertiabet (26th century BC stele).

Originally, The princess's skin tone was schematically painted wheat brown in color like many other portrayals of females during the old kingdom as opposed to a realistic rendering of her skin color in the portrait. She was never painted sallow-white in skin color and neither does the portrait you put forth portray her with a sallow-white skin tone coloring.
 
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
 
Simple logic suggests that if, the brown paint has faded from her skin, then the other brown objects on the relief should also be faded.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Simple Girl:
Simple logic suggests that if, the brown paint has faded from her skin, then the other brown objects on the relief should also be faded.

Which in fact happened.


But simple minded blind dumb mf's can't see that.
 
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:
Simple challenge.

If the ancient egyptians were black...

Find me a photo of a black woman with sallow-white skin like this:

 -

Princess Nefertiabet (26th century BC stele).

We know that royal women were frequently portrayed in yellowish tinge in ancient Egypt. Women in the Mauretania and Sahara even today lighten their faces with yellow makeup. It is also seen in certain ancient rock art in Sahara where men are also depicted brown and women much lighter. Your challenge is to find a European woman in the world with this kind of elongated Nilotic limb structure.

Then, maybe somebody will believe you.

For all we know this lady may be a Nubian depicted in characteristic Egyptian style. In any case, everyone knows the Egyptian royal women could have been mixed especially in that late period. And who cares!

You Eurnuts are just not getting it. "Intralimb indices are not significantly different between Egyptians and American Blacks...brachial indices are definitely more ‘African’..." Michelle H. Raxter, Christopher B. Ruff, Ayman Azab, Moushira Erfan, Muhammad Soliman, Aly El-Sawaf,(Am J Phys Anthropol. 2008, Jun;136(2):147-5

Judging from the above conclusion one might want to ask were Egyptians less mixed than the American "Negro".
 
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:
Simple challenge.

If the ancient egyptians were black...

Find me a photo of a black woman with sallow-white skin like this:

 -

Princess Nefertiabet (26th century BC stele).

 -


Bye idiot.

This photo really makes one think about Ibn Butlan's 11th century statement about the women of Medina and Taif being "brown" and "golden brown", the women of the Beja being "golden" in color, while the Berber women "were black". Of course black in Arabic would have meant something a lot darker than is shown here.
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:

Your challenge is to find a European woman in the world with this kind of elongated Nilotic limb structure.

Then, maybe somebody will believe you.

In any case, everyone knows the Egyptian royal women could have been mixed especially in that late period. And who cares!

let's use this as an example:
 -

Pharaoh Menkaure (Mycerinus) and his Queen




The above is a fairy realistic sculpture. Not cartoonish, perhaps slightly stylized and from the early period, 4th Dynasty.

His legs are not that long in proportion to his torso as are some Nilotics

But his arms are slightly long

^^^ the key proportion is the relation of where his wrists are, at what point on the thigh do they cross the thigh.

A comparison could be made with photos from google of men in swimsuits, not overly muscular and with one arm positioned straight down, a variety of "races" included

As per typical male ancient Egyptian complexion, this:
 -

you will also notice rather wide shoulders in many of these Egyptian figures.

.

lioness productions
 
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:

Your challenge is to find a European woman in the world with this kind of elongated Nilotic limb structure.

Then, maybe somebody will believe you.

In any case, everyone knows the Egyptian royal women could have been mixed especially in that late period. And who cares!

let's use this as an example:
 -

Pharaoh Menkaure (Mycerinus) and his Queen




The above is a fairy realistic sculpture. Not cartoonish, perhaps slightly stylized and from the early period, 4th Dynasty.

His legs are not that long in proportion to his torso as are some Nilotics

But his arms are slightly long

^^^ the key proportion is the relation of where his wrists are, at what point on the thigh do they cross the thigh.

A comparison could be made with photos from google of men in swimsuits, not overly muscular and with one arm positioned straight down, a variety of "races" included

As per typical male ancient Egyptian complexion, this:
 -

you will also notice rather wide shoulders in many of these Egyptian figures.

.

lioness productions

This man is depicted in the way most Ethiopians or Cushites and Puntites etc were depicted including their wide shoulders and lower arm widths, common among Cushitic speakers.

So I guess I missed the point.

 -
Danakil (Afar) of Eritrea

 -

I'm sorry if ur idea of blackness is different than everyone elses. [Wink]

I am also sorry u are not familiar with the east African physiognomy. [Big Grin]

I'm sure there are still some Tarzan video's left at Blockbuster if its not bankrupt.


BTW thank you for mentioning the African wide shoulders thing, very common among Somali and other east and West and Central Africans.

 -
men of Punt
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by castratedhide:

Simple challenge.

If the ancient egyptians were black...

Find me a photo of a black woman with sallow-white skin like this:


 -

Princess Nefertiabet (26th century BC stele).

Since so many people are willing to respond to this idiot...

First of all, the lady was painted YELLOW as that was the usual convention for women in Egyptian paint. One with decent eyesight can see the yellowish paint.

Second of all, yellow is NOT the same as 'sallow' or white. And again this was a convention and not necessarily a realistic color of the actual women. Funny how Euronuts love to focus on the light colored women but NEVER the dark colored i.e. dark brown (BLACK) men!

Third, note that this Egyptian lady is wearing a leopard skin dress which was a SACRED garb to black Africans as well as the African sounding name of the princess!

Lastly, is this thread the 3rd or 4th kind with the same title?? I recall several others with a "challenge" to black Egypt all of which was met and the idiot author Castratedhide soundly defeated and humiliated. Is the castrated one a glutton for punishment??
 
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by castratedhide:

Simple challenge.

If the ancient egyptians were black...

Find me a photo of a black woman with sallow-white skin like this:


 -

Princess Nefertiabet (26th century BC stele).

Since so many people are willing to respond to this idiot...

First of all, the lady was painted YELLOW as that was the usual convention for women in Egyptian paint. One with decent eyesight can see the yellowish paint.

Second of all, yellow is NOT the same as 'sallow' or white. And again this was a convention and not necessarily a realistic color of the actual women. Funny how Euronuts love to focus on the light colored women but NEVER the dark colored i.e. dark brown (BLACK) men!

Third, note that this Egyptian lady is wearing a leopard skin dress which was a SACRED garb to black Africans as well as the African sounding name of the princess!

Lastly, is this thread the 3rd or 4th kind with the same title?? I recall several others with a "challenge" to black Egypt all of which was met and the idiot author Castratedhide soundly defeated and humiliated. Is the castrated one a glutton for punishment??

LOL!

yes they are gluttons for it, Djehuti and don't knock replying to these trolls because it actually gives us the chance to address again the black Africanness of these people. Don't forget many people around the world come here to learn the history of Africans and about ancient indigenous Africans. Already i've seen on youtube, postings verbatim from the last two weeks of Egyptsearch in response to the Euronuts. in this way the truth is being spread - believe me.

BTW - I mentioned the characteristic portrayal of ancient Egyptian and Saharan women in yellow at top.
 
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 
[QUOTE]
 
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 
1
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:

Your challenge is to find a European woman in the world with this kind of elongated Nilotic limb structure.

Then, maybe somebody will believe you.

In any case, everyone knows the Egyptian royal women could have been mixed especially in that late period. And who cares!

let's use this as an example:
 -

Pharaoh Menkaure (Mycerinus) and his Queen




The above is a fairy realistic sculpture. Not cartoonish, perhaps slightly stylized and from the early period, 4th Dynasty.

His legs are not that long in proportion to his torso as are some Nilotics

But his arms are slightly long

^^^ the key proportion is the relation of where his wrists are, at what point on the thigh do they cross the thigh.

A comparison could be made with photos from google of men in swimsuits, not overly muscular and with one arm positioned straight down, a variety of "races" included

As per typical male ancient Egyptian complexion, this:
 -

you will also notice rather wide shoulders in many of these Egyptian figures.

.

lioness productions

This man is depicted in the way most Ethiopians or Cushites and Puntites etc were depicted including their wide shoulders and lower arm widths, common among Cushitic speakers.

So I guess I missed the point.

 -
Danakil (Afar) of Eritrea

 -

I'm sorry if ur idea of blackness is different than everyone elses. [Wink]

I am also sorry u are not familiar with the east African physiognomy. [Big Grin]

I'm sure there are still some Tarzan video's left at Blockbuster if its not bankrupt.


BTW thank you for mentioning the African wide shoulders thing, very common among Somali and other east and West and Central Africans.

 -
men of Punt

I truly don't know, and, or understand what these idiots want? But it's priceless.

Last time, in January I was in Luxor, Nubia. And I saw a man looking like the boxer Holyfield. He was the a manager on a ship.

Anyway,

This is the father of the princess.


 -
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Where is the castratedhide now?? He issued us a challenge (once again) and once again he is dismissed.
 
Posted by assumptions prove assumptions (Member # 19570) on :
 
We know these negroes ( flat noses and big lips ) sub Sahara Africans are jealous of other peoples history. Sorry negroes YOU WERE NOT ORIGINAL EGYPTIANS!

Africa is not one race of people! Just like Indians in Asia doesn't mean they are related to Chinese people, idiots! GET A CLUE!

North Africa is very close to the Middle East and southern Europe and ancient Egyptian art and sculptures show Eurasian looking peoples in a majority of it. Some Nubians, negroes  did immigrate to Egypt from south or brought as a slaves for a while, so don't bother posting pictures of them, since I've seen them already and don't deny it. But vast majority of ancient Egyptians show Eurasian rulers and peoples. NUBIANS in the south were NOT original Egyptians! STOP THE LIES!

Ethiopians, iretirians ( genetically not  negroes their blood mixed with Arabs  ) ruled for a short time by way of invasion, no different from Greeks ruling for a short time by way of invasion. But they're BOTH not TRUE, ORIGINAL Egyptians!

Eurasian peoples <-> Middle Easterners <-> are the TRUE, ORIGINAL EGYPTIANS!

Stop your jealous attempt to steal their history! STOP IT! 

You Afronazi morons!
 
Posted by assumptions prove assumptions (Member # 19570) on :
 
Some of the pictures you are putting to support your false urgement are not pure negroes or black most of them are for Ethiopians , iretirians and some hybrid negroes who one of their parent or ancestor is not Negro .... So the debate is who is Negro or not Negro so leave east African people alone negroes
 
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 
European/Asiatic cold climate or light skin inspiration was unneeded by the tropically adapted Africans of ancient Egypt. DNA studies show the Egyptians link with other Africans via Haplogroup "E" to a much greater extent than cold climate Mediterraneans, Europeans
or Middle easterners. (Keita 2004, 2008; Richards 2003; Battaglia, 2008; Cruciani 2007; Lucotte 2003; Stevanovitch et al 2004) African
people have a range of physical variation and don't need any inspiration or mixes from cold-climate/light skinned Europeans or Asiatics to explain why. Features like narrow noses, thin lips, height
etc are all indigenous to Africa. Africa has both the highest
phenotypic diversity and the highest genetic diversity in the world
and don’t need cold-climate/light skin inspiration for that
established fact. All cold-climate/light skinned Europeans and
Asiatics are SUBSETS of original African diversity. Modern DNA studies
find even though some African peoples look different, they are
genetically related through the PN2 transition clade of the
Y-chromosome. Thus light-skinned African Libyans and dark-skinned
Zulus are all genetically related Africans, even though they don't
look exactly the same.
(Keita 2004; Tishkoff 2002, Ely et al, 2006, Stevanovitch 2004)

African peoples are the most diverse in the world whether analyzed by DNA or skeletal or cranial methods. The peoples of the Nile Valley
vary but they are still related. The people most related ethnically to
the ancient Egyptians are other Africans like Nubians not
cold-climate/light skinned Europeans or Asiatics. (Keita 1996;
Rethelford, 2001; Bianchi 2004, Yurco 1989; Godde 2009)





semi-tropical/arid tropic zones, show clear limb proportion characteristics of tropically adapted people, and MORE closely resemble other tropically adapted Africans on the continent, than Europeans or Middle Easterners. (Raxter and Ruff 2008, Zakrewski 2003, 2007; Holliday et al, 2003, Kemp, 2005) 3) Undermining claims of cold-climate or skin color primacy for civilization, the great ancient Nile Valley civilization arose from the 'darker' more tropical south, NOT the cold climate or cool climate Mediterranean, Europe or Asia. (Clark, 1982; Shaw 1976, 2003; Bard, 2004; Vogel, 1997; Kemp 2005)


German Institute for Archaeology -excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. In several of the noble specimens: "The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."


(Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft
tissues", Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13)


"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially
southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)


______________________________________________
The kinship of Egypt and Africa
“Now the Ethiopians, as historians relate, were the first of all men… They say also that the Egyptians are colonist sent out by the Ethiopians, Osiris having been the leader of the colony… and add the larger part of the customs of the Egyptians are, they hold, Ethiopian, the colonists still preserving their ancient manners. For instance, the belief that their kings are gods, the very special attention which they pay their burials and many other matters of a similar nature are Ethiopian practices, while the shapes of their statues and the forms of their letters are Ethiopian.” Diodorus of Sicily.


Diodorus drew is account most from the books of Agarharchides of Cnidus and the geographer Artemidoros of Ephesos, as well as from certain other historians whose homes were in Egypt. Diodorus corroborated these written accounts, he says, by conversing with Egyptians priests during his stay in Egypt and by consulting “with not a few ambassadors from Ethiopia… who were then in Egypt.” On the strength of these inquiries, Diodoros confidently concluded that Agatharchides, Artemidoros, and the rest had been “accurate in all they written.”

Many archaeology, anthropology, and linguistics show that may key aspects of Egyptians culture were indeed brought up from the south by migrating African colonists. The Afro-Asiatic language from which the Egyptian language descended almost certainly came from the south. Joseph Greenberg pointed to Ethiopia as the homeland of this ancestral language. Another linguist, Christopher Ehret, concluded that Afro-asiatic speakers lived on a strip of land stretching along the red sea coast all the way from Nubia to northern Somalia. Also, this territory seems to encompass the fabled land of punt, lending support of the theory that punt was the ancestral homeland of some of the Egyptians’ ancestors. Ehret believes that a group of Afro-asiatic speakers left their homeland between 12,000 and 10,000 B.C. and migrated north into Egypt. Archaeologists have confirmed that early settlers from this region brought many of the skills, customs, and beliefs from which Egyptian civilization was built.


In ancient Egypt, the king was not supposed to reign unless he was in good health. Originally, when his strength declined, he was really put to death. Many African societies would put their kings to death when they showed signs of weakness or old age. For example, the king of the varozwe, a Shona people of Zimbabwe was strangled to death as soon as his hair began to gray, his teeth to fall out, his sight to fail, or his sexual potency to dimishish. A 16th century Portuguese traveler named J.Dos Santos recorded a similar customs of the kings of Sofala. He wrote “it was formerly the custom of the king of this land to commit suicide by taking poison when any disaster or natural physical defect fell upon them, such as impotence, infectious disease, the loss of their front teeth, by which they were disfigured, or any other deformity or affliction.”


Most importantly ancient Egyptians are known for their mummies. In fact, African people did mummify their dead, much like the Egyptians. Some would smoke dry their deceased kings, warp their bodies in cloth, and keep them at hand unburied, for years at a time. Often the internal organs would be removed, as in Egyptians mummies. When Sonni Ali, the emperor of Songhai, died in 1492, for example, his sons gutted his body and filled it with honey.
Ancestor worship provides another cultural link between Egypt and the rest of Africa. Most African peoples impute to the souls of dead ancestors a godlike ability to bring good or bad fortune to living. Ancestral spirits, for that reason, are placated with rich offering and elaborate rituals to want thier favor. The souls of dead kings, in particular, are revered for their power and wisdom. In Uganda, kings are believed to continue watching over their people long after death. Special temples are built through which their spirits can be consulted for advice.


Egyptian regilion reveals its African roots in many other respects as well. Greek and roman writers expressed shock at the menagerie of cats, snakes, donkeys, birds, crocodiles, beetles, hippopotami, cattle, and baboons that populated the Egyptian pantheon. Yet, animal god remain, to this day, a characteristics features of many African cults. Like so many other Africans, the Egyptians wore masks and animals’ tails during religious rites and used hand clapping in their festivals. Egyptian boys and girls were subjected to circumcisions, possibly as a rite passages to adulthood. Male and female circumcision remains, to this day, a widespread practice throughout Africa.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
That Boobo clown is clearly frustrated.


***Nice additional posts by the way.***

quote:
Originally posted by kenndo:
European/Asiatic cold climate or light skin inspiration was unneeded by the tropically adapted Africans of ancient Egypt. DNA studies show the Egyptians link with other Africans via Haplogroup "E" to a much greater extent than cold climate Mediterraneans, Europeans
or Middle easterners. (Keita 2004, 2008; Richards 2003; Battaglia, 2008; Cruciani 2007; Lucotte 2003; Stevanovitch et al 2004) African
people have a range of physical variation and don't need any inspiration or mixes from cold-climate/light skinned Europeans or Asiatics to explain why. Features like narrow noses, thin lips, height
etc are all indigenous to Africa. Africa has both the highest
phenotypic diversity and the highest genetic diversity in the world
and don’t need cold-climate/light skin inspiration for that
established fact. All cold-climate/light skinned Europeans and
Asiatics are SUBSETS of original African diversity. Modern DNA studies
find even though some African peoples look different, they are
genetically related through the PN2 transition clade of the
Y-chromosome. Thus light-skinned African Libyans and dark-skinned
Zulus are all genetically related Africans, even though they don't
look exactly the same.
(Keita 2004; Tishkoff 2002, Ely et al, 2006, Stevanovitch 2004)

African peoples are the most diverse in the world whether analyzed by DNA or skeletal or cranial methods. The peoples of the Nile Valley
vary but they are still related. The people most related ethnically to
the ancient Egyptians are other Africans like Nubians not
cold-climate/light skinned Europeans or Asiatics. (Keita 1996;
Rethelford, 2001; Bianchi 2004, Yurco 1989; Godde 2009)





semi-tropical/arid tropic zones, show clear limb proportion characteristics of tropically adapted people, and MORE closely resemble other tropically adapted Africans on the continent, than Europeans or Middle Easterners. (Raxter and Ruff 2008, Zakrewski 2003, 2007; Holliday et al, 2003, Kemp, 2005) 3) Undermining claims of cold-climate or skin color primacy for civilization, the great ancient Nile Valley civilization arose from the 'darker' more tropical south, NOT the cold climate or cool climate Mediterranean, Europe or Asia. (Clark, 1982; Shaw 1976, 2003; Bard, 2004; Vogel, 1997; Kemp 2005)


German Institute for Archaeology -excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. In several of the noble specimens: "The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."


(Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft
tissues", Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13)


"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially
southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)


______________________________________________
The kinship of Egypt and Africa
“Now the Ethiopians, as historians relate, were the first of all men… They say also that the Egyptians are colonist sent out by the Ethiopians, Osiris having been the leader of the colony… and add the larger part of the customs of the Egyptians are, they hold, Ethiopian, the colonists still preserving their ancient manners. For instance, the belief that their kings are gods, the very special attention which they pay their burials and many other matters of a similar nature are Ethiopian practices, while the shapes of their statues and the forms of their letters are Ethiopian.” Diodorus of Sicily.


Diodorus drew is account most from the books of Agarharchides of Cnidus and the geographer Artemidoros of Ephesos, as well as from certain other historians whose homes were in Egypt. Diodorus corroborated these written accounts, he says, by conversing with Egyptians priests during his stay in Egypt and by consulting “with not a few ambassadors from Ethiopia… who were then in Egypt.” On the strength of these inquiries, Diodoros confidently concluded that Agatharchides, Artemidoros, and the rest had been “accurate in all they written.”

Many archaeology, anthropology, and linguistics show that may key aspects of Egyptians culture were indeed brought up from the south by migrating African colonists. The Afro-Asiatic language from which the Egyptian language descended almost certainly came from the south. Joseph Greenberg pointed to Ethiopia as the homeland of this ancestral language. Another linguist, Christopher Ehret, concluded that Afro-asiatic speakers lived on a strip of land stretching along the red sea coast all the way from Nubia to northern Somalia. Also, this territory seems to encompass the fabled land of punt, lending support of the theory that punt was the ancestral homeland of some of the Egyptians’ ancestors. Ehret believes that a group of Afro-asiatic speakers left their homeland between 12,000 and 10,000 B.C. and migrated north into Egypt. Archaeologists have confirmed that early settlers from this region brought many of the skills, customs, and beliefs from which Egyptian civilization was built.


In ancient Egypt, the king was not supposed to reign unless he was in good health. Originally, when his strength declined, he was really put to death. Many African societies would put their kings to death when they showed signs of weakness or old age. For example, the king of the varozwe, a Shona people of Zimbabwe was strangled to death as soon as his hair began to gray, his teeth to fall out, his sight to fail, or his sexual potency to dimishish. A 16th century Portuguese traveler named J.Dos Santos recorded a similar customs of the kings of Sofala. He wrote “it was formerly the custom of the king of this land to commit suicide by taking poison when any disaster or natural physical defect fell upon them, such as impotence, infectious disease, the loss of their front teeth, by which they were disfigured, or any other deformity or affliction.”


Most importantly ancient Egyptians are known for their mummies. In fact, African people did mummify their dead, much like the Egyptians. Some would smoke dry their deceased kings, warp their bodies in cloth, and keep them at hand unburied, for years at a time. Often the internal organs would be removed, as in Egyptians mummies. When Sonni Ali, the emperor of Songhai, died in 1492, for example, his sons gutted his body and filled it with honey.
Ancestor worship provides another cultural link between Egypt and the rest of Africa. Most African peoples impute to the souls of dead ancestors a godlike ability to bring good or bad fortune to living. Ancestral spirits, for that reason, are placated with rich offering and elaborate rituals to want thier favor. The souls of dead kings, in particular, are revered for their power and wisdom. In Uganda, kings are believed to continue watching over their people long after death. Special temples are built through which their spirits can be consulted for advice.


Egyptian regilion reveals its African roots in many other respects as well. Greek and roman writers expressed shock at the menagerie of cats, snakes, donkeys, birds, crocodiles, beetles, hippopotami, cattle, and baboons that populated the Egyptian pantheon. Yet, animal god remain, to this day, a characteristics features of many African cults. Like so many other Africans, the Egyptians wore masks and animals’ tails during religious rites and used hand clapping in their festivals. Egyptian boys and girls were subjected to circumcisions, possibly as a rite passages to adulthood. Male and female circumcision remains, to this day, a widespread practice throughout Africa.

 -
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ass-humps-on more ass-humps-on:

Some of the pictures you are putting to support your false argument are not pure negroes or black most of them are for Ethiopians , iretirians and some hybrid negroes who one of their parent or ancestor is not Negro .... So the debate is who is Negro or not Negro so leave east African people alone negroes

 -

Yes, explain to us again how 'true negroes' look like and why there is only one type while there is no 'true caucasian' and caucasians come in all types again??

Tell us again how Central Africans like this man...

 -

is actually of caucasoid origin, even though genetics refutes this or any of your caca-soid claims..

We want to hear more. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by assumptions prove assumptions (Member # 19570) on :
 
cmon guys we are here talking about majority so please stop selecting pictures from minority living here or there or to confusing us . for example have you seen Obama father ? He is a pure Negro but Obama mother is white and now this mix marriage will affect the coming generation of this sin marriage we should unit to stop the mix martiage cuz it will change the original beauty face of our planet
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
This is what happens when one is idiotic and a mental wreck. Making assumptions and baseless claims on stupidity.


Putting in non-factors to the issue at hand. [Big Grin] [Confused] [Frown] [Embarrassed] [Mad] [Eek!]


quote:
Originally posted by assumptions prove assumptions:
cmon guys we are here talking about majority so please stop selecting pictures from minority living here or there or to confusing us . for example have you seen Obama father ? He is a pure Negro but Obama mother is white and now this mix marriage will affect the coming generation of this sin marriage we should unit to stop the mix martiage cuz it will change the original beauty face of our planet

 -


His father is not the standard or substandard for Africans.

This is what uneducated fools such as yourself can't grasp. I mean really, did you understand any of what was posted prior to this?
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by ass-humps-on more ass-humps-on:

Some of the pictures you are putting to support your false argument are not pure negroes or black most of them are for Ethiopians , iretirians and some hybrid negroes who one of their parent or ancestor is not Negro .... So the debate is who is Negro or not Negro so leave east African people alone negroes

 -

Yes, explain to us again how 'true negroes' look like and why there is only one type while there is no 'true caucasian' and caucasians come in all types again??

Tell us again how Central Africans like this man...

 -

is actually of caucasoid origin, even though genetics refutes this or any of your caca-soid claims..

We want to hear more. [Roll Eyes]

Yes, it does happen again.


There are many uneducated and even dumb folks out there. Blame it on the failing education system.

Can you imagine he posted right after your post. Peer reviewed academic sources by Kenndo's post and mine. And still did not get it, "it" don't understand biodiversity.


I say let's teardown this bitchboy, not for the sake but for the fun.
 
Posted by assumptions prove assumptions (Member # 19570) on :
 
lol...da same reaction ..insult , abuse , disregard...etc . the same type of language again and again and again wherever in da world. abusive language baseless arguers weapon. they always try to force/ motivate the readers to believe in what they believe otherwise they will attack them by this impolite words.
 
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Look trying to gleen what the ancients looked from drawing is ok to a point by what about other areas such as genetics, were the Kemities biologically African?... answer that
were they culturally Africans...answer that.

I can take any number of select paintings/pics and prove that the Swiss were Black or Kenyans were whites.
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
Dana says,

We know that royal women were frequently portrayed in yellowish tinge in ancient Egypt. Women in the Mauretania and Sahara even today lighten their faces with yellow makeup. It is also seen in certain ancient rock art in Sahara where men are also depicted brown and women much lighter

Yellow paint? Riiight! We can't you admit that Egypt saw many migrations from the Near East like the Hysksos etc. Many Pahroahs would take Foreign wives etc Some Pharoahs were of Libyan descent. That you feel that you must always rush to the forefront and claim everyone Black, going to whatever ridiculous lengths, claiming women were puting yellow paint on their faces etc, shows that you are not at all an objetive person. [Frown]

Young Egyptian girl.

 -
 
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

Last time, in January I was in Luxor, Nubia. And I saw a man looking like the boxer Holyfield. He was the a manager on a ship.

Anyway,

This is the father of the princess.


 -

The statue is reminiscent of portrayals like Mentuhotep from the 12th dynasty. Princess Nefertiabet was from the old kingdom; 4th dynasty to be exact, not from the Middle kingdom.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by assumptions prove assumptions:
lol...da same reaction ..insult , abuse , disregard...etc . the same type of language again and again and again wherever in da world. abusive language baseless arguers weapon. they always try to force/ motivate the readers to believe in what they believe otherwise they will attack them by this impolite words.

It's funny how Boobo the clown keeps spinning in weak and wacky emotions on assumptions.


While being slapped left and right with peer review data. Then claims he/she/it is not being respected, and being insulted etc...when it has been doing the same. lol

You get back the threat you give. You get back the same amount of respect you give. This means zero to none.


PINHASI Ron, SEMAL Patrick (2000).

The position of the Nazlet Khater specimen among prehistoric and modern African and Levantine populations.


"The morphometric affinities of the 33,000 year old skeleton from Nazlet Khater, Upper Egypt are examined using multivariate statistical procedures.

The results indicate a strong association between some of the sub-Saharan Middle Stone Age (MSA) specimens, and the Nazlet Khater mandible.

Furthermore, the results suggest that variability between African populations during the Neolithic and Protohistoric periods was more pronounced than the range of variability observed among recent African and Levantine populations."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10964529


The nubian mesolithic: A consideration of the Wadi Halfa remains

Meredith F. Small*


Morphological variation of the skeletal remains of ancient Nubia has been traditionally explained as a product of multiple migrations into the Nile Valley. In contrast, various researchers have noted a continuity in craniofacial variation from Mesolithic through Neolithic times. This apparent continuity could be explained by in situ cultural evolution producing shifts in selective pressures which may act on teeth, the facial complex, and the cranial vault.

A series of 13 Mesolithic skulls from Wadi Halfa, Sudan, are compared to Nubian Neolithic remains by means of extended canonical analysis. Results support recent research which suggests consistent trends of facial reduction and cranial vault expansion from Mesolithic through Neolithic times.


Busharia reveals the precocious appearance of pottery on the African continent around the 9th millennium B.C.

The site of Busharia is located near the desert, at the edge of the alluvial plain and near an old Nile channel. It reveals the remains of human occupation at the onset of the Holocene. The settlement is rather eroded, only a few artefacts, ostrich egg fragments and extremely old ceramic sherds remain. These sherds date to circa 8200 B.C. The ceramic assemblage is homogenous, which suggests the existence of a single occupation phase. The decorations and the use of the return technique, common in the central Sahara around the 6th millennium B.C., are unique in this Nubian context for such an early period.

Remains discovered on site suggest the existence of a semi-sedentary population living from hunting, fishing, and the gathering of wild plants. A trial trench and a small-scale excavation were conducted on this Mesolithic site; however, it is impossible to obtain at present a better understanding of the context related to the first ceramics in the region. As this site is located near cultivated zones, it is thus threatened with short-term destruction.

http://www.kerma.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=52&Itemid=92

Three scale models—of the Mesolithic hut of el-Barga (7500 B.C.), the proto-urban agglomeration of the Pre-Kerma (3000 B.C.) and the ancient city of Kerma (2500-1500 B.C.)—give a glimpse of the world of the living. They show the evolution of settlements for each of the key periods in Nubian history. Huts indicate the birth of a sedentary way of life, the agglomeration confirms the settling of populations on a territory and the capital of the Kingdom of Kerma marks the culmination of the complexification of Nubian architecture with its ever more monumental constructions. The three models were created in Switzerland by Hugo Lienhard and were installed in the museum in January 2009.

http://www.kerma.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6&Itemid=45〈=en

Wadi el-Arab reveals an almost continuous series of settlement remains spanning two millennia as well as the first Neolithic burials known in Africa.

This site is located today in a desert region. Discovered in 2005, it has been under excavation since 2006. This is an open-air site occupied on several occasions during a period between 8300 and 6600 B.C. Its inhabitants then lived in a rather wooded environment, living on fishing, hunting and gathering.

The site reveals numerous flint tools and flakes, grinding stone fragments, ceramic sherds, ostrich eggshell beads, shells and mollusc remains, fish vertebrae and faunal remains. Rare domesticated ox bones were discovered and dated to circa 7000 B.C. This discovery is important for the question regarding the origin of animal domestication in Africa because it reinforces the idea of a local domestication of African oxen from aurochs living in the Nile Valley.

During the 2006-2007 campaign, six burial pits were excavated in three different areas. Dated to between 7000 and 6600, these burials are the first known Neolithic burials on the African continent.

http://www.kerma.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=57


Project Director : Prof. Matthieu Honegger
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
Dana says,

We know that royal women were frequently portrayed in yellowish tinge in ancient Egypt. Women in the Mauretania and Sahara even today lighten their faces with yellow makeup. It is also seen in certain ancient rock art in Sahara where men are also depicted brown and women much lighter

Yellow paint? Riiight! We can't you admit that Egypt saw many migrations from the Near East like the Hysksos etc. Many Pahroahs would take Foreign wives etc Some Pharoahs were of Libyan descent. That you feel that you must always rush to the forefront and claim everyone Black, going to whatever ridiculous lengths, claiming women were puting yellow paint on their faces etc, shows that you are not at all an objetive person. [Frown]

Young Egyptian girl.

 -

Is she cold adapted, warm adapted or intermediate?
 
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Simple Girl:
Simple logic suggests that if, the brown paint has faded from her skin, then the other brown objects on the relief should also be faded.

Lol its clear other objects on the relief have also faded but that is beside the point. The point is the original schematic skin color representing the princess was wheat-brown in color.

 -

This can be ascertained from close examination where traces of wheat brown coloring exist on her skin along with other customary portrayals of wheat brown colored females dating to the old kingdom.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ass-hump-ons more ass-hump-ons:

cmon guys we are here talking about majority so please stop selecting pictures from minority living here or there or to confusing us . for example have you seen Obama father? He is a pure Negro but Obama mother is white and now this mix marriage will affect the coming generation of this sin marriage we should unit to stop the mix martiage cuz it will change the original beauty face of our planet

Your ridiculous remarks about Obama and mix-marriages aside. The man whose picture I posted comes from Rwanda and he and his people were not prevalent enough in numbers for Europeans to actually label as "caucasoid"! Many East Africans like Ethiopians and Somalis were also labeled as ca-casoid and even peoples as far south as Tanzania. Then we have those peoples in West Africa with aquiline features like the Fulani who range throughout vast tracts of West Africa to Sudan. All this not excluding those in North Africa and the Sahara including ancient Egyptians who are also labeled as "ca-casoid" no matter how dark their skin.

On the contrary the majority of whites look a certain way yet their ca-casoid race extends well beyond Europe into Southwest Asia, South Asia, and even Africa. Do you not realize how idiot this racial theory of caca-soid vs. negroid is? Apparently not.

quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

Yes, it does happen again.

There are many uneducated and even dumb folks out there. Blame it on the failing education system.

Can you imagine he posted right after your post. Peer reviewed academic sources by Kenndo's post and mine. And still did not get it, "it" don't understand biodiversity.

I say let's teardown this bitchboy, not for the sake but for the fun.

Indeed. Be my guest.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

Yellow paint? Riiight! We can't you admit that Egypt saw many migrations from the Near East like the Hysksos etc. Many Pahroahs would take Foreign wives etc Some Pharoahs were of Libyan descent. That you feel that you must always rush to the forefront and claim everyone Black, going to whatever ridiculous lengths, claiming women were puting yellow paint on their faces etc, shows that you are not at all an objetive person. [Frown]

Young Egyptian girl.

 -

Hey ignoramus! The convention for yellow paint among women had NOTHING to do with Asiatics or the immigrations there or! Such a convention has been in place since the beginnings of the Old Kingdom even in the southern part where complexions were darker than in the north.

Here is what one Egyptologist says:

"..Male and female skin colors were probably not uniform among the entire population of Egypt, with pigmentation being darker in the south [closer to sub-saharan Africans] and lighter in the north [closer to Mediterranean Near Easterners] A woman from the south would probably have had darker skin than a man from the North. Thus, the colorations used for skin tones in the art must have been schematic [or symbolic] rather than realistic; the clear gender distinction encoded in that scheme may have been based on elite ideals relating to male and female roles,in which women's responsibilities kept them indoors, so that they spent less time in the sun than men. Nevertheless, the significance of the two colors may be even deeper, making some as yet unknown but fundamental difference between men and women in Egyptian worldview..."

The belief that women stayed indoors was proven wrong since artwork shows that even poor women who did work outside the home alongside men were still painted yellow, and elite women spent their time outdoors in recreation.

Oh your one cherry-picked image of an (Arab) Egyptian girl cannot do you justice.


 -

 -

 -

 -
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sahel (Siptah):

quote:
Originally posted by Simpleton:
Simple logic suggests that if, the brown paint has faded from her skin, then the other brown objects on the relief should also be faded.

Lol its clear other objects on the relief have also faded but that is beside the point. The point is the original schematic skin color representing the princess was wheat-brown in color.

 -

This can be ascertained from close examination where traces of wheat brown coloring exist on her skin along with other customary portrayals of wheat brown colored females dating to the old kingdom.

LOL There goes simpleton non-logic. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Selassie der könig:
You can see that most of the paint has come off. Plus look at her braided hair. And then again she could be mixed with Asian.

You sure her hair's braided here? It looks like it could be some kind of fine dreadlocks to me.
 
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
 
Some more simple logic. Notice the picture below. The women are very light and the men are slightly darker. I highly doubt that the paint faded only from the women and not from the men in the picture.

 -
 
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
 
 -
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Simple Girl:
Some more simple logic. Notice the picture below. The women are very light and the men are slightly darker. I highly doubt that the paint faded only from the women and not from the men in the picture.

 -

Yes, they are light.

How about the scholar you support. He himself stated that those colours are symbolically. Remember?


And yes, there were small groups who entered into Egypt and settled, especiallymin the delta region. Including the oppressors Hyksos who later got kicked out. Those people were cold adapted. The original inhabiters were warm adapted people like other Africans, with who they shared their multiple continues affinities. This was shown time and time again.

Tell me, what part of this data can't you grasp?
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Simple Girl:
 -

In many African traditions the ritual of dead is symbolically being depicted light/ white. Not dark/ black as is in European context.

This depiction is from the book of...guess what...dead...


Here we see, baboons being depicted. The baboon mummy cult was found at the Horn. Baboons are from inner Africa.


And all dipictions show animism, another African tradition.

 -


 -


 -


http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/baboon-mummy-analysis-reveals-eritrea-and-ethiopia-as-location-of-land-of-punt-1954547.html
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

Yellow paint? Riiight! We can't you admit that Egypt saw many migrations from the Near East like the Hysksos etc. Many Pahroahs would take Foreign wives etc Some Pharoahs were of Libyan descent. That you feel that you must always rush to the forefront and claim everyone Black, going to whatever ridiculous lengths, claiming women were puting yellow paint on their faces etc, shows that you are not at all an objetive person. [Frown]

Young Egyptian girl.

 -

Hey ignoramus! The convention for yellow paint among women had NOTHING to do with Asiatics or the immigrations there or! Such a convention has been in place since the beginnings of the Old Kingdom even in the southern part where complexions were darker than in the north.

Here is what one Egyptologist says:

"..Male and female skin colors were probably not uniform among the entire population of Egypt, with pigmentation being darker in the south [closer to sub-saharan Africans] and lighter in the north [closer to Mediterranean Near Easterners] A woman from the south would probably have had darker skin than a man from the North. Thus, the colorations used for skin tones in the art must have been schematic [or symbolic] rather than realistic; the clear gender distinction encoded in that scheme may have been based on elite ideals relating to male and female roles,in which women's responsibilities kept them indoors, so that they spent less time in the sun than men. Nevertheless, the significance of the two colors may be even deeper, making some as yet unknown but fundamental difference between men and women in Egyptian worldview..."

The belief that women stayed indoors was proven wrong since artwork shows that even poor women who did work outside the home alongside men were still painted yellow, and elite women spent their time outdoors in recreation.

Oh your one cherry-picked image of an (Arab) Egyptian girl cannot do you justice.


 -

 -

 -

 -

I agree with you.

But the lighter complected girl shows same facial affinities with the darker skinned girls.

This is also what studies state. They show the same affinities. (in ancient context)
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by Simple Girl:
[qb]  -

In many African traditions the ritual of dead is symbolically being depicted light/ white. Not dark/ black as is in European context.


The mummy of Hunefer, shown supported by the god Anubis (or a priest wearing a jackal mask). Hunefer's wife and daughter mourn, and three priests perform rituals. The two priests with white sashes are carrying out the Opening of the Mouth ritual. The white building at the right is a representation of the tomb.The ritual involved the symbolic animation of a statue or mummy by magically opening its mouth so that it could breathe and speak. There is evidence of this ritual from the Old Kingdom to the Roman Period. Special tools were used to perform the ceremony, such as a ritual adze, an arm shaped ritual censer, a spooned blade known as a peseshkaf, a serpent-head blade, and a variety of other amulets. A calf's leg was also held up to the lips painted on the coffin.
The ancient Egyptians believed that in order for a person's soul to survive in the afterlife it would need to have food and water. A special ritual called the 'Opening of the Mouth' was performed so that the person who died could eat and drink again in the afterlife.
The ceremony involved up to 75 "episodes" and, in its most complete version, included the following stages


Above two man and woman are doing an embalming ritutal.

1) The men are colored reddish brown. What does reddish brown symbolize?

2) The woman is colored pinkish beige. What does pinkish beige symbolize?

.
 
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
 
The Afronuts just don't get it -

The egyptian females are pale white because they stayed indoors. This was typical of all Mediterranean culture. Go look at the murals from Knossos. The men are red, and the women white. This is because the men were more sunburnt as they worked outdoors.

Egyptian artwork reveals exactly this -

red or red-brown men
but white or sallow-white women

Its IMPOSSIBLE to be a black women with skin as light as found in ancient egyptian art.

This is why the afronuts are now claiming they are only 'symbolic'...

Basically an admission of defeat.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by castratedhide:

The Afronuts just don't get it -

No. Euronuts like YOURSELF just don't get it!

quote:
The egyptian females are pale white because they stayed indoors. This was typical of all Mediterranean culture. Go look at the murals from Knossos. The men are red, and the women white. This is because the men were more sunburnt as they worked outdoors.
WRONG!

First of all, "Mediterranean" is a sea NOT a culture. The Mediterranean borders Africa, Southwest Asia, as well as Europe!

Secondly, that women stayed indoors was a Victorian era view that was proven wrong by archaeology, historical documents, and the murals themselves! Most women in ancient times couldn't afford to stay indoors as they had responsibilities and chores outdoors like agriculture. Both Egyptian artwork as well as Minoan art show women working outside in outdoor activities.

(sallow) Minoan woman working outside picking saffron
 -

(yellow) Egyptian woman with husband
 -

Exceptions in Minoan art
 -

Exceptions in Egyptian art
 -

^ Notice the lady is darker than her husband.

By the way, Minoan people and culture is partly derived from Africa with the oldest settlements in the island coming from Libya! So your point is moot.

Minoan BLACK woman

 -

I suggest you read more info here. But your Euronut mind will refuse to comprehend it anyway.

quote:
Egyptian artwork reveals exactly this -

red or red-brown men
but white or sallow-white women

Its IMPOSSIBLE to be a black women with skin as light as found in ancient egyptian art.

Again, women in Egyptian art are NOT painted white or sallow but golden or yellow which was a convention that had exceptions. It was Minoan women who were sallow in color but even Minoan art shows exceptions with women just as dark as men.

quote:
This is why the afronuts are now claiming they are only 'symbolic'...

Basically an admission of defeat.

You obviously missed my citation here:

"..Male and female skin colors were probably not uniform among the entire population of Egypt, with pigmentation being darker in the south [closer to sub-saharan Africans] and lighter in the north [closer to Mediterranean Near Easterners] A woman from the south would probably have had darker skin than a man from the North. Thus, the colorations used for skin tones in the art must have been schematic [or symbolic] rather than realistic; the clear gender distinction encoded in that scheme may have been based on elite ideals relating to male and female roles,in which women's responsibilities kept them indoors, so that they spent less time in the sun than men. Nevertheless, the significance of the two colors may be even deeper, making some as yet unknown but fundamental difference between men and women in Egyptian worldview..." -- Gay Robins (an Egyptologist)
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
Retarded is not even a word which fits and describes your mental condition. IT'S WORSE!!!!


quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:
The Afronuts just don't get it -

The egyptian females are pale white because they stayed indoors. This was typical of all Mediterranean culture. Go look at the murals from Knossos. The men are red, and the women white. This is because the men were more sunburnt as they worked outdoors.

Egyptian artwork reveals exactly this -

red or red-brown men
but white or sallow-white women

Its IMPOSSIBLE to be a black women with skin as light as found in ancient egyptian art.

This is why the afronuts are now claiming they are only 'symbolic'...

Basically an admission of defeat.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!! [Embarrassed]

Your populair Egyptologist Zahi Hawass stated that the colors are symbolic. [Wink] [Big Grin]

All other other osteological data proves them indigenous AFRICANS FROM THE SOUTH! And you have nothing.... [Embarrassed]


Let's recap / review?

Series
The Cambridge Ancient History

Volume 3 Part 3
The Expansion of the Greek World, Eighth to Sixth Centuries B.C.

Chapter Title
Chapter 36b: The Greeks in Egypt

Publication Date
1982

Author
T. F. R. G. Braun
Digital Object Identifier (DOI)
10.1017/CHOL9780521234474.003


Overview
Greek-Egyptian relations before Psammetichus I

Greeks arrived to settle in Egypt in the reign of Psammetichus I (664–610 B.C.). For the period that follows, Herodotus found that Egyptian and non-Egyptian information could be combined (II. 147). Thanks to Greek settlers mingling with the Egyptians, knowledge was now accurate (II. 154). Significantly, no Greek pottery datable to the period between Mycenaean times and 664 B.C. has so far been found in Egypt. Egyptian trinkets, on the other hand, were reaching the Greek world in the eighth century, and a bronze Egyptian jug at Lefkandi in Euboea would seem to date back as far as the ninth. These could have arrived by way of Phoenicia or Cyprus.

Some contact then, even if indirect, there must have been in the disturbed century before Psammetichus I. The Greeks retained some recollection of the Egyptian history of this time. We have seen how the king of Ethiopia and Egypt, who must have been Shabako (c. 716–c. 702 B.C.) in 711 surrendered Yamani of Ashdod, possibly a Greek (above, p. 16). This ‘Sabakōs’ is an historical figure for Herodotus (II. 137, 139) who in the fifth century could get a fair amount of information about the 25th (Nubian or Kushite) dynasty. Shabako's enemy was the delta king Bakenrenef son of Tefnakhte (c. 720–715 ?), whom he eventually captured and burnt alive. Bakenrenef, as Bocchoris, was to figure in Greek imagination, though Herodotus does not mention him. He is celebrated as a sagacious lawgiver in the Egyptian account of Diodorus (I. 45, 65, 79, 94) which derives from earlier Greek writing – probably in large measure from Hecataeus of Abdera, c. 300 B.C.

[Cool] [Razz]

 -
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by Simple Girl:
[qb]  -

In many African traditions the ritual of dead is symbolically being depicted light/ white. Not dark/ black as is in European context.


The mummy of Hunefer, shown supported by the god Anubis (or a priest wearing a jackal mask). Hunefer's wife and daughter mourn, and three priests perform rituals. The two priests with white sashes are carrying out the Opening of the Mouth ritual. The white building at the right is a representation of the tomb.The ritual involved the symbolic animation of a statue or mummy by magically opening its mouth so that it could breathe and speak. There is evidence of this ritual from the Old Kingdom to the Roman Period. Special tools were used to perform the ceremony, such as a ritual adze, an arm shaped ritual censer, a spooned blade known as a peseshkaf, a serpent-head blade, and a variety of other amulets. A calf's leg was also held up to the lips painted on the coffin.
The ancient Egyptians believed that in order for a person's soul to survive in the afterlife it would need to have food and water. A special ritual called the 'Opening of the Mouth' was performed so that the person who died could eat and drink again in the afterlife.
The ceremony involved up to 75 "episodes" and, in its most complete version, included the following stages


Above two man and woman are doing an embalming ritutal.

1) The men are colored reddish brown. What does reddish brown symbolize?

2) The woman is colored pinkish beige. What does pinkish beige symbolize?

.

This has been posted before by Ausar and Sundjata


Egyptian Skin Tones - Symbolic & Conventional

Egyptian male (dark)
Egyptian brown skin.....masculine, strong
Black skin.....................powerful, reborn
White skin....................recently deceased

Old Egyptian male (light)
Yellow skin....................weak, frail

Egyptian female (light)
Yellow skin....................feminine, weak
Egyptian brown skin.....equal of men (Amarna period)
Black skin.....................powerful, reborn

Egyptian gods
Gold skin......................flesh of the gods
Blue skin......................the cosmic waters, the firmament
Green skin...................life (i.e., plants)
Black skin.....................resurrection, sacred, holy, benevolent


[......The choice of the single red-brown color to represent The
Egyptian man,rather than a more realistic range of shades ,should
also considered within a wider symbolic scheme that included the
representations of foreginers. The foreigne men to the north and west
of Egypt were depicted by yellow skin[similar to that odf traditional
Egyptian women]; men to the south of Egypt were given black skin.
Although undoubtedly some Egyptians' skin pigmentation differed
little from that of Egypt's neighboors,in the Egyptian worldview
foreigners had to be distinguished . Thus Egyptian men had to be
marked by a common skin color that contrasted with the images of non-
Egyptian men. That the Egyptian women shared their skin color with
some foreign men scarcely mattered,since the Egyptian male is primary
and formed the reference point in these two color scemes---
contrasting in one with non-Egyptian males and in the other with
Egyptian females. Within the scheme of Egyptian/non-Egyptian skin
color,black was not desirable for ordinary humans ,because it marked
out figures as foreign ,as enemies of Egypt,and ultimatley as
represenatives of chaos;black thereby contrasted with its positive
meaning elsewhere. This example helps demostrate the importance of
context for reading color symbolism.........]


[......Thus,the gender distinctionencoded for human figures was
transferred at times to the divie world. The symbolisminherant in the
skin colors used for some deities and royal figures sugest that the
colors given to human skin---although initiallyseeming to be
naturalistic -----might also be symbolic. Male and female skin colors
were probabaly not uniform among the entire population of Egypt,with
pigmentation being darker in the south[closer to sub-saharan Africans]
and lighter in the north[closer to Mediterranean Near Easteners] A
woman from the south would probabaly have had darker skin than a man
from the North. Thus,the colorations used for skin tones in the art
must have been schematic [or symbolic] rather than realistic;the
clear gender distinction encoded in that scheme may have been based
on elite ideals relating to male and female roles,in which women's
responsibilities kept them indoors,so that they spent less time in
the sun than men.Nevertheless, the signifcance of the two colors may
be even deeper,making some as yet unknown but fundamental difference
between men and women in Egyptian worldview............]


The Ancient God Speak by Donald Redford

A Guide to Egyptian Religion

Page 57-61 Color Symbolism

Gay Robins
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

Yellow paint? Riiight! We can't you admit that Egypt saw many migrations from the Near East like the Hysksos etc. Many Pahroahs would take Foreign wives etc Some Pharoahs were of Libyan descent. That you feel that you must always rush to the forefront and claim everyone Black, going to whatever ridiculous lengths, claiming women were puting yellow paint on their faces etc, shows that you are not at all an objetive person. [Frown]

Young Egyptian girl.

 -

Hey ignoramus! The convention for yellow paint among women had NOTHING to do with Asiatics or the immigrations there or! Such a convention has been in place since the beginnings of the Old Kingdom even in the southern part where complexions were darker than in the north.

Here is what one Egyptologist says:

"..Male and female skin colors were probably not uniform among the entire population of Egypt, with pigmentation being darker in the south [closer to sub-saharan Africans] and lighter in the north [closer to Mediterranean Near Easterners] A woman from the south would probably have had darker skin than a man from the North. Thus, the colorations used for skin tones in the art must have been schematic [or symbolic] rather than realistic; the clear gender distinction encoded in that scheme may have been based on elite ideals relating to male and female roles,in which women's responsibilities kept them indoors, so that they spent less time in the sun than men. Nevertheless, the significance of the two colors may be even deeper, making some as yet unknown but fundamental difference between men and women in Egyptian worldview..."

The belief that women stayed indoors was proven wrong since artwork shows that even poor women who did work outside the home alongside men were still painted yellow, and elite women spent their time outdoors in recreation.

Oh your one cherry-picked image of an (Arab) Egyptian girl cannot do you justice.


 -

 -

 -

 -

Your own quote says that Northern Egyptians were lighter close to Mediterranean people.

Bam! you are shot down. Just like that!
 
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
 
So now the dead are represented as white?lol....What about Maiherpri? Why isn't he represented as being white in the Book of the Dead?

 -
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Simple Girl:
So now the dead are represented as white?lol....What about Maiherpri? Why isn't he represented as being white in the Book of the Dead?

 -

1). Do you understand what is writen there, or do you go by eyebology?

2). Read the previous post on symbolism (what is the color of flesh.)


3). Thanks for your time.


4). Bye bye.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

Yellow paint? Riiight! We can't you admit that Egypt saw many migrations from the Near East like the Hysksos etc. Many Pahroahs would take Foreign wives etc Some Pharoahs were of Libyan descent. That you feel that you must always rush to the forefront and claim everyone Black, going to whatever ridiculous lengths, claiming women were puting yellow paint on their faces etc, shows that you are not at all an objetive person. [Frown]

Young Egyptian girl.

 -

Hey ignoramus! The convention for yellow paint among women had NOTHING to do with Asiatics or the immigrations there or! Such a convention has been in place since the beginnings of the Old Kingdom even in the southern part where complexions were darker than in the north.

Here is what one Egyptologist says:

"..Male and female skin colors were probably not uniform among the entire population of Egypt, with pigmentation being darker in the south [closer to sub-saharan Africans] and lighter in the north [closer to Mediterranean Near Easterners] A woman from the south would probably have had darker skin than a man from the North. Thus, the colorations used for skin tones in the art must have been schematic [or symbolic] rather than realistic; the clear gender distinction encoded in that scheme may have been based on elite ideals relating to male and female roles,in which women's responsibilities kept them indoors, so that they spent less time in the sun than men. Nevertheless, the significance of the two colors may be even deeper, making some as yet unknown but fundamental difference between men and women in Egyptian worldview..."

The belief that women stayed indoors was proven wrong since artwork shows that even poor women who did work outside the home alongside men were still painted yellow, and elite women spent their time outdoors in recreation.

Oh your one cherry-picked image of an (Arab) Egyptian girl cannot do you justice.


 -

 -

 -

 -

Your own quote says that Northern Egyptians were lighter close to Mediterranean people.

Bam! you are shot down. Just like that!

But these North Egyptians are never the less African in basal, thou they do have admixture to some extend (specially coastals). Whereas the South Mediterraneans usually aren't African in basal, thou they have admixture to some extend.

And logic tells, that due to the climate of the region people will somewhat have similair physical affinities. Even tough they're fundamentally not the same. Therefore Northern Egyptians can have light skin, without foreign introgression.


SOY Keita explains this somewhere in a journal. (I forgot about the title.)

Unfortunate, my question has remained unanswered. Is she cold-, warm/ tropical adapted or intermediate?


 -
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

Skin Tones - Symbolic & Conventional

Egyptian male (dark)
Egyptian brown skin.....masculine, strong
Black skin.....................powerful, reborn
White skin....................recently deceased

Old Egyptian male (light)
Yellow skin....................weak, frail

Egyptian female (light)
Yellow skin....................feminine, weak
Egyptian brown skin.....equal of men (Amarna period)
Black skin.....................powerful, reborn

Egyptian gods
Gold skin......................flesh of the gods
Blue skin......................the cosmic waters, the firmament
Green skin...................life (i.e., plants)
Black skin.....................resurrection, sacred, holy, benevolent



^^^^ The above was written by Wally of Egyptsearch and it has errors


quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
 - In many African traditions the ritual of dead is symbolically being depicted light/ white. Not dark/ black as is in European context.


In many places in Africa what you said is incorrect:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=007334


Color Symbolism in African Culture.

_____________________________________________

In the above painting the men and the woman wear standard white colored garments. This does not symbolize death.
The color associated with the Egyptian underworld, the dead and night was black and Osiris is sometimes depicted as jet black (or sometimes dark green )
Sometimes kings, such as the guardian figures of Tutankhamun in his tomb are depicted jet black. This is because kings are sometimes depicted as personifying Osiris in the burial chambers.
The black and green color used to depict Osiris are used because
greeen is the color of rebirth and black refers to the fertility of the Nile floodplain.

Anubis the jackal-headed god in the above painting associated with mummification and the afterlife in ancient Egyptian religion. The distinctive black color of Anubis' head did not have to do with the jackal [per se] but with the color of rotting flesh and with the black soil of the Nile valley, symbolizing the fertility of the Nile.
 -


.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
Lion 's, *what is the colour of flesh and bones?


 -


Click

quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

Skin Tones - Symbolic & Conventional

Egyptian male (dark)
Egyptian brown skin.....masculine, strong
Black skin.....................powerful, reborn
White skin....................recently deceased

Old Egyptian male (light)
Yellow skin....................weak, frail

Egyptian female (light)
Yellow skin....................feminine, weak
Egyptian brown skin.....equal of men (Amarna period)
Black skin.....................powerful, reborn

Egyptian gods
Gold skin......................flesh of the gods
Blue skin......................the cosmic waters, the firmament
Green skin...................life (i.e., plants)
Black skin.....................resurrection, sacred, holy, benevolent



^^^^ The above was written by Wally of Egyptsearch and it has errors


quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
 -

In many African traditions the ritual of dead is symbolically being depicted light/ white. Not dark/ black as is in European context.


in many places in Africa what you said is incorrect:


quote:


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=007334


Color Symbolism in African Culture.



I said/ wrote in many African traditions. That is what I wrote/ said. And I would not call the post by "Wally" errors. Rather a form of interpretation. Both of the interpretations intermingle quite well.


African peoples often symbolize death by the colour white rather than black; at the same time, many African cultures see white as the colour that links them to their ancestors, and it can therefore have a positive meaning.
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
I said/ wrote in many African traditions. That is what I wrote/ said. And I would not call the post by "Wally" errors. Rather a form of interpretation. Both of the interpretations intermingle quite well.

African peoples often symbolize death by the colour white rather than black; at the same time, many African cultures see white as the colour that links them to their ancestors, and it can therefore have a positive meaning.



quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:African peoples often symbolize death by the colour white rather than black; at the same time, many African cultures see white as the colour that links them to their ancestors, and it can therefore have a positive meaning.
It's misleading, when black is used more frequently in African funerery traditions

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=007334

It's nothing to worry about, most African people are brown
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
Also, in many African traditions white clothes is worn at funerals. Describing different symbolic conditions.


I am shocked, really.

 -


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
I said/ wrote in many African traditions. That is what I wrote/ said. And I would not call the post by "Wally" errors. Rather a form of interpretation. Both of the interpretations intermingle quite well.

African peoples often symbolize death by the colour white rather than black; at the same time, many African cultures see white as the colour that links them to their ancestors, and it can therefore have a positive meaning.



quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:African peoples often symbolize death by the colour white rather than black; at the same time, many African cultures see white as the colour that links them to their ancestors, and it can therefore have a positive meaning.
It's misleading, when black is used more frequently in African funerery traditions

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=007334

It's nothing to worry about, most African people are brown

It's misleading to interpret incorrect.


Colour has symbolic meaning in African culture and each colour conveys peculiar information when won or displaced at significant places or situations.

*The black colour is a symbolic colour for funerals in almost all parts of Africa. It is the official mourning cloth at funerals especially the one that involves a person who died at unripe age-not the death of an old member.

*The white colour is a symbol of purity and joy, which usually won at funerals especially the type that involves a dead old member.


The semantics of dead in African traditions? [Wink]
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
But these North Egyptians are never the less African in basal, thou they do have admixture to some extend (specially coastals). Whereas the South Mediterraneans usually aren't African in basal, thou they have admixture to some extend.

And logic tells, that due to the climate of the region people will somewhat have similair physical affinities. Even tough they're fundamentally not the same. Therefore Northern Egyptians can have light skin, without foreign introgression.


E haplotypes extend from East Africa all the way into West Asia and the Balkans. Therefore the North Egyptians are not so genetically distinct from others. And there were undoubtedly migrations from the Middle East during the neolithic and before. What do people think. There was a wall separating Egypt from the rest of the world!!

And how the fcuk can Dejhuti know for sure the Egyptian girl I posted is of Arab origin? Oh wait, if she doesn't look Black tyen she can't be a real Egyptian. GTFOH!
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

Your own quote says that Northern Egyptians were lighter close to Mediterranean people.

Bam! you are shot down. Just like that!

LOL [Big Grin]

Yes lighter and stated closer to Mediterranean Near Easterns NOT the same as them, retard!

The same way these San women of Southern Africa are closer to Near Easterners in complexion than most Bantu peoples.

 -

I again notice you left out the Near Easterners part and just said Mediterranean people. Again the Mediterranean borders Europe, Africa, and Southwest Asia so I don't see how there could be one 'Mediterranean' people. The northern Egyptians while being 'Mediterranean' were Africans and thus closely related to other Africans including Sub-Saharans. You even have the bad habit of stereotyping Sub-Saharans into a certain look when the picture above of Khoisan people dispells your belief.

Again, your problem is that you rely too much on your whimsical belief and NOT facts!

quote:
E haplotypes extend from East Africa all the way into West Asia and the Balkans. Therefore the North Egyptians are not so genetically distinct from others. And there were undoubtedly migrations from the Middle East during the neolithic and before. What do people think. There was a wall separating Egypt from the rest of the world!!
Of course there was no separation hence the migrations. It should occur to you as well that there were migrations from Europe and Southwest Asia especially in historical times that altered the gene pool let alone phenotype of the people.

quote:
And how the fcuk can Dejhuti know for sure the Egyptian girl I posted is of Arab origin? Oh wait, if she doesn't look Black then she can't be a real Egyptian. GTFOH!
Even Egyptians like Ausar will tell you that many Egyptians today have foreign ancestry from Arab, Persian, Assyrian, Greek, Turkish, you name it. Now I'm not saying that the little girl in your selective pic has no native ancestry since she looks no different from most mixed kids of African descent here in America, but to say she is pristine is laughable just like your light-skinned Berber representing the original Berbers! Only idiots like yourself are in denial that black types like the ones I posted from rural southern Egypt that had little geneflow from outside represent the authentic Egyptian.

Now answer me this simple question. Who is closer to King Tut here in complexion?

 -

Your cherry picked Egyptian girl?

 -

Or this Egyptian boy from rural Luxor?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30459150@N07/4558076881/

I await your answer.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Simpleton:

So now the dead are represented as white?lol....What about Maiherpri? Why isn't he represented as being white in the Book of the Dead?

 -

The recently deceased were depicted white yes. The Book of the Dead portrays the resurrected in the here-after so no that does not count simple-brain. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
Yes lighter and stated closer to Mediterranean Near Easterns NOT the same as them, retard!

The same way these San women of Southern Africa are closer to Near Easterners in complexion than most Bantu peoples.

I again notice you left out the Near Easterners part and just said Mediterranean people. Again the Mediterranean borders Europe, Africa, and Southwest Asia so I don't see how there could be one 'Mediterranean' people. The northern Egyptians while being 'Mediterranean' were Africans and thus closely related to other Africans including Sub-Saharans. You even have the bad habit of stereotyping Sub-Saharans into a certain look when the picture above of Khoisan people dispells your belief.


You are simply delusional. Egyptians varied in phenotype with a North/South gradient. I'm sure people in the North could look like Near Easterners. Why couldn't they? Becuase you don't like the idea? Egypt was not all Black but mixed. I don't know whether that girl is pristine or not but she has a similar complexion to the picture in the OP. I am sure there were many like her. You idiots claim you are taking back your history from the lying White man or whatver, but you are not at all objective and your attitude about Egypt is nazi like and unrealistic.
And I don't think the lighter women were symbolic either since in real life Women ARE lighter than the men within their ethnicity. While this tendency may have been become a tradition in their art work, it should by no means be ruled out as not being at all reflective of Egyptian phenotypes.

Look at the woman on the right, does she look like she is wearing paint dumbass?


 -
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
Yes lighter and stated closer to Mediterranean Near Easterns NOT the same as them, retard!

The same way these San women of Southern Africa are closer to Near Easterners in complexion than most Bantu peoples.

I again notice you left out the Near Easterners part and just said Mediterranean people. Again the Mediterranean borders Europe, Africa, and Southwest Asia so I don't see how there could be one 'Mediterranean' people. The northern Egyptians while being 'Mediterranean' were Africans and thus closely related to other Africans including Sub-Saharans. You even have the bad habit of stereotyping Sub-Saharans into a certain look when the picture above of Khoisan people dispells your belief.


You are simply delusional. Egyptians varied in phenotype with a North/South gradient. I'm sure people in the North could look like Near Easterners. Why couldn't they? Becuase you don't like the idea? Egypt was not all Black but mixed. I don't know whether that girl is pristine or not but she has a similar complexion to the picture in the OP. I am sure there were many like her. You idiots claim you are taking back your history from the lying White man or whatver, but you are not at all objective and your attitude about Egypt is nazi like and unrealistic.
And I don't think the lighter women were symbolic either since in real life Women ARE lighter than the men within their ethnicity. While this tendency may have been become a tradition in their art work, it should by no means be ruled out as not being at all reflective of Egyptian phenotypes.

Look at the woman on the right, does she look like she is wearing paint dumbass?


 -

Kim Jackson,


What part of ancient Egyptians were TROPICAL ADAPTED you don't understand?

It became mixed much later, when the civilization was basically at it's end.

The people you keep ranting about are cold adapted.


SMH, hilarious. As if people in Africa couldn't have developed lighter skin. Yet across the sea, in europe they could. LOL


 -

 -

 -

 -

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Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
But these North Egyptians are never the less African in basal, thou they do have admixture to some extend (specially coastals). Whereas the South Mediterraneans usually aren't African in basal, thou they have admixture to some extend.

And logic tells, that due to the climate of the region people will somewhat have similair physical affinities. Even tough they're fundamentally not the same. Therefore Northern Egyptians can have light skin, without foreign introgression.


E haplotypes extend from East Africa all the way into West Asia and the Balkans. Therefore the North Egyptians are not so genetically distinct from others. And there were undoubtedly migrations from the Middle East during the neolithic and before. What do people think. There was a wall separating Egypt from the rest of the world!!

And how the fcuk can Dejhuti know for sure the Egyptian girl I posted is of Arab origin? Oh wait, if she doesn't look Black tyen she can't be a real Egyptian. GTFOH!

Look dimwitted melanophobic alias chancing idiot, we have shown an abundance of SCIENCE from different disciplines!!!!

North Egyptians are in their basal genetically AFRICAN and the ancients were for sure tropical adapted. Your middle eastenerns and euros are old adapted.

YOU CAN'T RESPOND COHERENTLY TO THE QUESTIONS ADDRESSED. [Embarrassed]


GTFOH BITCHBOY!
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
But these North Egyptians are never the less African in basal, thou they do have admixture to some extend (specially coastals). Whereas the South Mediterraneans usually aren't African in basal, thou they have admixture to some extend.

And logic tells, that due to the climate of the region people will somewhat have similair physical affinities. Even tough they're fundamentally not the same. Therefore Northern Egyptians can have light skin, without foreign introgression.


E haplotypes extend from East Africa all the way into West Asia and the Balkans. Therefore the North Egyptians are not so genetically distinct from others. And there were undoubtedly migrations from the Middle East during the neolithic and before. What do people think. There was a wall separating Egypt from the rest of the world!!

And how the fcuk can Dejhuti know for sure the Egyptian girl I posted is of Arab origin? Oh wait, if she doesn't look Black tyen she can't be a real Egyptian. GTFOH!

Look dimwitted melanophobic alias chancing idiot, we have shown an abundance of SCIENCE from different disciplines!!!!

North Egyptians are in their basal genetically AFRICAN and the ancients were for sure tropical adapted. Your middle eastenerns and euros are old adapted.

YOU CAN'T RESPOND COHERENTLY TO THE QUESTIONS ADDRESSED. [Embarrassed]


GTFOH BITCHBOY!

Go get a map and find where Egypt is located..right nrxt to Palestine and Arabia. Egypt saw back migrations you brainless imbecil. That why we find haplogroups like J, R and T. Egypt's climate is not conducive to people developing light skin,wavy hair, striaght noses etc. That is likely the result of mixture. Ramses II was shown to be have been a light complexioned man with red hair and Eurasian features. Deal with it.

I can't tell who is stupider, you or Yohooti..but I think he comes up with this ish first, and you just parrot him. Impressive!
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Hey moron! Those back-migrations you speak of largely took place during Medieval to Modern times!! Hence, the vast majority of the haplogroups you listed are dated to Arab Islamic invasion and the Ottoman empire!

 -

The map above comes from a 2004 study by Luis and Underhill et. ales called 'The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations'. In the study they specify those very haplogroups you listed as deriving from Islamic invasions to the Turkish Empire. As far as ancient expansions go, it was FROM Africa (Egypt) TO Eurasia via the E3b (E1b1b). Note that E1b1b in 'Arab' Egyptians is still prominent as a basal lineage. As you put it Egypt is right next to Palestine and Arabia, yet you always emphasize Asian migrations into Africa but never the converse, even though the former only took place after the pharaonic period!

quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

You are simply delusional. Egyptians varied in phenotype with a North/South gradient. I'm sure people in the North could look like Near Easterners. Why couldn't they? Because you don't like the idea? Egypt was not all Black but mixed. I don't know whether that girl is pristine or not but she has a similar complexion to the picture in the OP. I am sure there were many like her. You idiots claim you are taking back your history from the lying White man or whatever, but you are not at all objective and your attitude about Egypt is nazi like and unrealistic.

Of course there was phenotypic variation with a north-south gradient. ALL indigenous populations in many countries or regions display such variation! Northern Italians differ somewhat from their southern kin, southern Chinese differ from northerners. The same is true with African countries even in Sub-Sahara. You are the one delusional if you think such a difference meant the northerners looked Asiatic! LOL In fact, mainstream Egyptology has debunked the notion that ancient Delta Egyptians were of Asiatic descent. Why even the author I cited about the depiction of women in ancient Egyptian art, Gay Robins, was involved in skeletal studies that clearly showed *all* Egyptians including northern Delta folk to have closer affinities with Sub-Saharans than with Asiatics! You say that Egypt is mixed. This is very much true with MODERN Egypt but not ancient Egypt!

Moving to the opposite geographic extremity, the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty(Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile Valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans.
Barry Kemp, Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation

By the way, I noticed you never answered my question about which modern Egyptian best approaches Tut in color. I'm not surprised. [Wink]
quote:
And I don't think the lighter women were symbolic either since in real life Women ARE lighter than the men within their ethnicity. While this tendency may have been become a tradition in their art work, it should by no means be ruled out as not being at all reflective of Egyptian phenotypes.
LOL Again, who cares what you think?! Of course biologically men produce more melanin than women, the difference is very slight. Unless you think a homogenous population can produce men with chocolate dark complexions and women with yellowish ones. Again, that the yellow convention with women was symbolic is something supported by all Egyptologists from Gay Robins to Zahi Hawass.

quote:
Look at the woman on the right, does she look like she is wearing paint dumbass?

 -

What?! [Confused] The entire scene is a painting!! LOL

Damn. I don't know who is more retarded YOU or Lyinass?? [Eek!]
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
 -

 -

quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
But these North Egyptians are never the less African in basal, thou they do have admixture to some extend (specially coastals). Whereas the South Mediterraneans usually aren't African in basal, thou they have admixture to some extend.

And logic tells, that due to the climate of the region people will somewhat have similair physical affinities. Even tough they're fundamentally not the same. Therefore Northern Egyptians can have light skin, without foreign introgression.


E haplotypes extend from East Africa all the way into West Asia and the Balkans. Therefore the North Egyptians are not so genetically distinct from others. And there were undoubtedly migrations from the Middle East during the neolithic and before. What do people think. There was a wall separating Egypt from the rest of the world!!

And how the fcuk can Dejhuti know for sure the Egyptian girl I posted is of Arab origin? Oh wait, if she doesn't look Black tyen she can't be a real Egyptian. GTFOH!

Look dimwitted melanophobic alias chancing idiot, we have shown an abundance of SCIENCE from different disciplines!!!!

North Egyptians are in their basal genetically AFRICAN and the ancients were for sure tropical adapted. Your middle eastenerns and euros are old adapted.

YOU CAN'T RESPOND COHERENTLY TO THE QUESTIONS ADDRESSED.


GTFOH BITCHBOY!

Go get a map and find where Egypt is located..right nrxt to Palestine and Arabia. Egypt saw back migrations you brainless imbecil. That why we find haplogroups like J, R and T. Egypt's climate is not conducive to people developing light skin,wavy hair, striaght noses etc. That is likely the result of mixture. Ramses II was shown to be have been a light complexioned man with red hair and Eurasian features. Deal with it.

I can't tell who is stupider, you or Yohooti..but I think he comes up with this ish first, and you just parrot him. Impressive!

Well retarded melanophobe, tell us what the climate is like in Egypts, Northeast Africa? (ancient Kemet)

If you consult a map you will find out that Egypt/ Sudan, is almost larger than the entire Europe. Yet, in tiny Europe you already will find (relatively) different, yet homogenous climates, correlating with (relatively) different phenotypes, yet homogenous.


Let's have fun here.


What was the age of Ramses II when he passed away?


Premapped... [Smile]

 -

 -

Click and consult the map

Chain of Border Forts

You and your imaginary black father. [Big Grin] [Embarrassed] [Frown]
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Hey moron! Those back-migrations you speak of largely took place during Medieval to Modern times!! Hence, the vast majority of the haplogroups you listed are dated to Arab Islamic invasion and the Ottoman empire!

 -

The map above comes from a 2004 study by Luis and Underhill et. ales called 'The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations'. In the study they specify those very haplogroups you listed as deriving from Islamic invasions to the Turkish Empire. As far as ancient expansions go, it was FROM Africa (Egypt) TO Eurasia via the E3b (E1b1b). Note that E1b1b in 'Arab' Egyptians is still prominent as a basal lineage. As you put it Egypt is right next to Palestine and Arabia, yet you always emphasize Asian migrations into Africa but never the converse, even though the former only took place after the pharaonic period!

quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

You are simply delusional. Egyptians varied in phenotype with a North/South gradient. I'm sure people in the North could look like Near Easterners. Why couldn't they? Because you don't like the idea? Egypt was not all Black but mixed. I don't know whether that girl is pristine or not but she has a similar complexion to the picture in the OP. I am sure there were many like her. You idiots claim you are taking back your history from the lying White man or whatever, but you are not at all objective and your attitude about Egypt is nazi like and unrealistic.

Of course there was phenotypic variation with a north-south gradient. ALL indigenous populations in many countries or regions display such variation! Northern Italians differ somewhat from their southern kin, southern Chinese differ from northerners. The same is true with African countries even in Sub-Sahara. You are the one delusional if you think such a difference meant the northerners looked Asiatic! LOL In fact, mainstream Egyptology has debunked the notion that ancient Delta Egyptians were of Asiatic descent. Why even the author I cited about the depiction of women in ancient Egyptian art, Gay Robins, was involved in skeletal studies that clearly showed *all* Egyptians including northern Delta folk to have closer affinities with Sub-Saharans than with Asiatics! You say that Egypt is mixed. This is very much true with MODERN Egypt but not ancient Egypt!

Moving to the opposite geographic extremity, the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty(Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile Valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans.
Barry Kemp, Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation

By the way, I noticed you never answered my question about which modern Egyptian best approaches Tut in color. I'm not surprised. [Wink]
quote:
And I don't think the lighter women were symbolic either since in real life Women ARE lighter than the men within their ethnicity. While this tendency may have been become a tradition in their art work, it should by no means be ruled out as not being at all reflective of Egyptian phenotypes.
LOL Again, who cares what you think?! Of course biologically men produce more melanin than women, the difference is very slight. Unless you think a homogenous population can produce men with chocolate dark complexions and women with yellowish ones. Again, that the yellow convention with women was symbolic is something supported by all Egyptologists from Gay Robins to Zahi Hawass.

quote:
Look at the woman on the right, does she look like she is wearing paint dumbass?

 -

What?! [Confused] The entire scene is a painting!! LOL

Damn. I don't know who is more retarded YOU or Lyinass?? [Eek!]

 -


Nice map on ancient Kemet


Nice classic map
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
Well retarded melanophobe, tell us what the climate is like in Egypts, Northeast Africa?

If you consult a map you will find out that Egypt/ Sudan, is larger than the entire Europe. Yet, in tiny Europe you already will find (relatively) different climates correlating with (relatively) different phenotypes.


Let's have fun here.


You're right. I forgot that the Egyptians invented ice skating from the Nile freezing over in the winters near Cairo. [Eek!]
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
Well retarded melanophobe, tell us what the climate is like in Egypts, Northeast Africa?

If you consult a map you will find out that Egypt/ Sudan, is larger than the entire Europe. Yet, in tiny Europe you already will finHd (relatively) different climates correlating with (relatively) different phenotypes.


Let's have fun here.


You're right. I forgot that the Egyptians invented ice skating from the Nile freezing over in the winters near Cairo.

As in my opening statement from the previous post. At this alias changing assumptions retarded melanophobe booboo-clown.


Word is born, retarded response by a real retard. When "itself" stated Mediterranean at first, and now quickly shifts to Eurasia.


He can't answer, it simple can't. At this moment "it's" googling for the specific information. In hopes of, making a "rough" comeback. [Big Grin] [Frown] [Cool] [Razz]


Neither was ice skating invented in central or far Asia. [Embarrassed]
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
Let's have fun here.

quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
You're right. I forgot that the Egyptians invented ice skating from the Nile freezing over in the winters near Cairo. [Eek!]

THE ICING ON THE CAKE!

 -


As we can all see the "Eurasian' component ('light blue') is insignifigant in Ethiopians/Northeast Africans. So you can reburry that "admixture" theory in the same patch that you dug it up from!

Louisvilleslugger
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
Hey moron! Those back-migrations you speak of largely took place during Medieval to Modern times!! Hence, the vast majority of the haplogroups you listed are dated to Arab Islamic invasion and the Ottoman empire!

Lol Sho ya right!

"The earliest known back migration of R1b was from Asia to Africa and took place around 15,000 years ago. A group of R1b1* people moving from the Levant to Egypt, Sudan and spreading in different directions inside Africa to Rwanda, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, Congo, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau. The hotspot is Cameroon. R1b1* was observed at a frequency of up to 95% in some tribes of northern Cameroon (like the Kirdi), and about 15% nationwide. It is in all likelihood where the early R1b people first settled, then spread south and east along the coast."


"The cooler climate and over-exploitation of resources led to the failure of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic in the Levant. Some Near Eastern farmers crossed Sinai into North Africa around 6,000 BC, taking sheep, goats, wheat and barley with them. That agro-pastoralist dispersal has been linked to subclades of the Y haplogroups E1b and R1b."
s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/3081519/1/

"Sergio Tofanelli and colleagues have investigated the modern-day distribution of Y haplogroup J1 (M267) across North Africa as well as the Middle East. They reject the idea that this can be explained simply by the spread of Islam. They find that coalescence times for lineages point to the more distant past: the period between 5,500 and 7,200 BP (3,500-5,200 BC)"

There were many migrations into Egypt. We could also talk about hg U.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/4/15/

And you forgot the HYKSOS!

You clearly talking out ya butt!

Of course there was phenotypic variation with a north-south gradient. ALL indigenous populations in many countries or regions display such variation! Northern Italians differ somewhat from their southern kin, southern Chinese differ from northerners. The same is true with African countries even in Sub-Sahara. You are the one delusional if you think such a difference meant the northerners looked Asiatic! LOL In fact, mainstream Egyptology has debunked the notion that ancient Delta Egyptians were of Asiatic descent. Why even the author I cited about the depiction of women in ancient Egyptian art, Gay Robins, was involved in skeletal studies that clearly showed *all* Egyptians including northern Delta folk to have closer affinities with Sub-Saharans than with Asiatics! You say that Egypt is mixed. This is very much true with MODERN Egypt but not ancient Egypt!

That ain't really true. There is a politically correct trend to ignore Asiatics influences in Egypt..

"It was immediately clear to the excavators that the Merimdens were radically different from the peoples of Upper Egypt in every respect - physically, culturally, and technologically. Their burial customs were similar to those of the southwestern, Semitic-type Asians, and strikingly different from those of all the Africans. Whereas the African tradition was to bury the dead with a variety of earthly goods to sustain them in the afterlife, and with amulets to protect them from malevolent spirits, the graves of the Merimdens contained no grave offerings of any kind.

Throughout the village clusters of baskets or jars serving as granaries were buried up to their necks in the ground, Circular, clay-lined threshing floors also seemed to be associated with individual dwellings. The Merimdens clearly lived in more or less economically independent single family units, the foundation of the same type of patriarchal system being formed at the time in the Semitic cultures of southwestern Asia. They contrasted sharply with the autarchic systems being generated in Upper Egypt.

[Merimbe] shows none of the distinctively Egyptian characteristics... In its general aspects, Merimde seems more like a village of sturdy yeoman farmers than a collection of peasants subject to the whims, avarice, and authority of a powerful man or a government, although some cooperative efforts (if not collectivization of food-producing tasks) are recalled by the threshing floors up to 13 feet in diameter.2

During the Naqada period the Asiatic communities of Lower Egypt began to spread upstream (southward). Several groups of farming communities were established just below modern Cairo. In 1924 a young Egyptian mineralogist, Amin el Omari, discovered the ruins of such a community in the periphery of his home town, Helwan, about twenty-three kilometers south of Cairo. Tragically, the youthful scientist died shortly thereafter. The town, and other such villages found in the region thereafter were named after him - Omari A, B, and C, as was the culture they represented...

The Omari villages were urbanized centers into which was introduced an impressive array of Asian agricultural products such as sycamore dates and figs, domesticated wild sugar, emmer wheat, and an evolved type of barley. The domesticated Omari animals, like those of Fayoum A and Merimde, were Mesopotamian varieties of pigs, goats, and cows. The bones of such animals were found in abundance, along with an assortment of the bones of wild animals, birds and fish of Lower Egypt. The separate housing and facilities of the villagers, each of which was self-contained, reflect the egalitarian character of Omari life. The tools, the pottery, and the method of burial of the earlier Omari periods all resembled those of southwestern Asia and those of the other Asiatic villages to the north. Archaeologists took note of this distinct culture by referring to it as the "Deltic Tradition."
http://www.hebrewhistory.info/factpapers/fp010-1_egypt.htm


LOL Again, who cares what you think?! Of course biologically men produce more melanin than women, the difference is very slight. Unless you think a homogenous population can produce men with chocolate dark complexions and women with yellowish ones.

Generally the men spend more time outdoors in the elements. That is the real reason. Dummy. The daker coloring of the Egyptian men is really due to ..tanning. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
As in my opening statement from the previous post. At this alias changing assumptions retarded melanophobe booboo-clown.

Word is born, retarded response by a real retard. When "itself" stated Mediterranean at first, and now quickly shifts to Eurasia.

He can't answer, it simple can't. At this moment "it's" googling for the specific information. In hopes of, making a "rough" comeback.

Neither was ice skating invented in central or far Asia.



You have no well thought out arguments or salient points. All you have is insipid babble.

Why don't you go and watch some TV? I'm sure they must have cartoons on somewhere.. [Wink]
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
As in my opening statement from the previous post. At this alias changing assumptions retarded melanophobe booboo-clown.

Word is born, retarded response by a real retard. When "itself" stated Mediterranean at first, and now quickly shifts to Eurasia.

He can't answer, it simple can't. At this moment "it's" googling for the specific information. In hopes of, making a "rough" comeback.

Neither was ice skating invented in central or far Asia.



You have no well thought out arguments or salient points. All you have is insipid babble.

Why don't you go and watch some TV? I'm sure they must have cartoons on somewhere.. [Wink]

Thus far still no answer or explanation. Just the same old distractions and distortions. [Big Grin] [Wink] [Embarrassed] [Cool]


Therefor, again the question is send out into the parameter.

What is mandated for certain traits, we speak of, to appear. What is required? Alias clown!
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:

Generally the men spend more time outdoors in the elements. That is the real reason. Dummy. The daker coloring of the Egyptian men is really due to ..tanning. [Big Grin]

[Roll Eyes] [Embarrassed]

Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13

"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)...... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of negroid origin."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15804821

[Cool] [Big Grin]
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13

"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)...... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of negroid origin."

]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15804821
[/b]

Upper Egypt is down in the South near Sudan. They was mosly Black.. Dontcha know nuthin??

And what is this question you keep sayin I'm avioding?
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
You fail again!!!! [Big Grin]

As was previously shown:

*as we can all see the "Eurasian' component ('light blue') is insignifigant in Ethiopians/Northeast Africans. So you can reburry that "admixture" theory in the same patch that you dug it up from!


An examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development?


K. Goddea, b, Corresponding Author Contact Information

a Department of Anthropology, University of Tennessee


b Department of Science, South College

Abstract

Many authors have speculated on Nubian biological evolution. Because of the contact Nubians had with other peoples, migration and/or invasion (biological diffusion) were originally thought to be the biological mechanism for skeletal changes in Nubians. Later, a new hypothesis was put forth, the in situ hypothesis. The new hypothesis postulated that Nubians evolved in situ, without much genetic influence from foreign populations. This study examined 12 Egyptian and Nubian groups in an effort to explore the relationship between the two populations and to test the in situ hypothesis. Data from nine cranial nonmetric traits were assessed for an estimate of biological distance, using Mahalanobis D2 with a tetrachoric matrix. The distance scores were then input into principal coordinates analysis (PCO) to depict the relationships between the two populations. PCO detected 60% of the variation in the first two principal coordinates. A plot of the distance scores revealed only one cluster; the Nubian and Egyptian groups clustered together. The grouping of the Nubians and Egyptians indicates there may have been some sort of gene flow between these groups of Nubians and Egyptians. However, common adaptation to similar environments may also be responsible for this pattern. Although the predominant results in this study appear to support the biological diffusion hypothesis, the in situ hypothesis was not completely negated.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19766993

Am J Phys Anthropol, 2008.

Stature estimation;anatomical method;regression formulae; Egyptians


Abstract

Trotter and Gleser's (Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 10 (1952) 469–514; Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 16 (1958) 79–123) long bone formulae for US Blacks or derivations thereof (Robins and Shute: Hum Evol 1 (1986) 313–324) have been previously used to estimate the stature of ancient Egyptians. However, limb length to stature proportions differ between human populations; consequently, the most accurate mathematical stature estimates will be obtained when the population being examined is as similar as possible in proportions to the population used to create the equations. The purpose of this study was to create new stature regression formulae based on direct reconstructions of stature in ancient Egyptians and assess their accuracy in comparison to other stature estimation methods. We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites. Living stature estimates were derived using a revised Fully anatomical method (Raxter et al.: Am J Phys Anthropol 130 (2006) 374–384). Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical. The newly generated Egyptian-based stature regression formulae have standard errors of estimate of 1.9–4.2 cm. All mean directional differences are less than 0.4% compared to anatomically estimated stature, while results using previous formulae are more variable, with mean directional biases varying between 0.2% and 1.1%, tibial and radial estimates being the most biased. There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formulae may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains.

"We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites... Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical... Intralimb indices are not significantly different between Egyptians and American Blacks... brachial indices are definitely more ‘African’. ... There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formula may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains." (" Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: A new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature ."


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.20790/abstract

quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13

"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)...... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of negroid origin."

]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15804821
[/b]

Upper Egypt is down in the South near Sudan. They was mosly Black.. Dontcha know nuthin??

And what is this question you keep sayin I'm avioding?

Thus far still no answer or explanation. Just the same old distractions and distortions.


Therefor, again the question is send out into the parameter.

What is mandated for certain traits, we speak of, to appear. What is required? Delusional many alias clown!

Ramses II his tomb and major temple is at NUBIA, Wadi Kubbaniya/ Wadi Halfa. I've put up images of his parents. [Wink]
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
What is mandated for certain traits, we speak of, to appear. What is required? Alias clown!

Autosomal DNA.


Now Begone!

 -
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
As was previously shown:

*as we can all see the "Eurasian' component ('light blue') is insignifigant in Ethiopians/Northeast Africans. So you can reburry that "admixture" theory in the same patch that you dug it up from!


Problem with you is, you keep distracting and distorting the question as much as possible, in hopes the focus will get lost on the og-question. You are a bad (worse) actor with many alias.
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
What is mandated for certain traits, we speak of, to appear. What is required? Alias clown!

Autosomal DNA.


Now Begone!


[Roll Eyes] As we can see here, he/ it/ she can't answer the question properly and intelligently.

So he/ it/ she starts to distort, with a cartoon. [Confused]

What kind of environmental and climactical conditions are needed for certain appearances like light skin, thin hair, a thin nose. That is the question.


Secondly, what is the environment and climactical condition like in Egypt. Northeast Africa.

Was all this environment and climactic adaption before or after the autosomal? [Embarrassed] [Cool]

tictoc....tic toc...
 
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

Problem with you is, you keep distracting and distorting the question as much as possible, in hopes the focus will get lost on the og-question. You are a bad (worse) actor with many alias.


So he/ it/ she starts to distort, with a cartoon. [Confused]

What kind of environmental and climactical conditions are needed for certain appearances like light skin, thin hair, a thin nose. That is the question.


Secondly, what is the environment and climactical condition like in Egypt. Northeast Africa.

Was all this environment and climactic adaption before or after the autosomal? [Embarrassed] [Cool]

tictoc....tic toc... [/QB]

Excellent job Patrol. The environmental and climatic
data show the fundamental peopling of ancient Egypt,
until the tail end of Egyptian civ with the advent
of Greeks, Romans, Arabs, etc was by tropical peoples,
specifically indigenous tropical African peoples.
We all know foreigners have always moved back and
forth across borders into Egypt, but the fundamental
population retained its tropical heritage until the later period.
Indeed, part of Egypt itself falls within the tropical zone.

No amount of bogus "biodiversity" distortion and lies
can change this reality.

And socalled "back migrations" do little to change
the facts either, because said "back migrations"
were by people already looking like tropical Africans.
Tropical peoples from Africa who walked a few
hundred miles into the Sinai or into Arabia and
came
back sometime later do not automatically become
"Asian." And in fact modern studies show that there
was genetic variation INSIDE Africa already
in place before outward movements, and CONTINUOUS
movement from Africa outward in several ancient
eras, defeating the bogus "biodiversity" attempts
to pigeonhole Africans with some sort of neat
apartheid-like "racial split."
{QUOTE}
quote:
`"population divergence times in sub-Saharan Africa predate the emergence of modern humans outside Africa, raising the possibility that modern humans dispersed from a structured African population. Populations split times were similar to previous estimates in Africa, ranging from 17-142 thousand years ago (KYR). The Khosian exhibited the oldest population split times (range, 102-142 KYR) and Niger-Congo speakers the most recent (range, 17-84 KYR)... "

--Maya Metni Pilkington (2008). An apportionment of African genetic diversity based on mitochondrial, Y chromosomal, and X chromosomal data. PH.d Dissertation (published). University of Arizona, pg 1-9.

Keita notes useof misleading "Eurasian" model:
QUOTE:

"The historical linguistic data reported earlier would apply in the case of maternal lineages as well.. it is not likely that the "northern" genetic profile is simply due to "Eurasians" having colonized supra-Saharan regions from external African sources. It might be likely that the greater percentage of haplotypes called "Eurasian" are predominantly, although not solely, of indigenous African origin. As a term "Eurasian" is likely misleading, since it suggests a single locale of geographical origins. This is because it can be postulated that differentiation of the L3* haplogroup began before the emigration out of Africa, and that there would be indigenous supra-Saharan/Saharan or Horn-supra-Saharan haplotypes. More work and careful analysis of mtDNA and the archeological data and likely probabilities is needed. Early hunting and gathering paleolithic populations can be modeled as having roamed between northern Africa and Eurasia, leaving an asymmetrical distribution of various derivative variants over a wide region, giving the appearance of Eurasian incursion."
--Keita, A, Boyce, A. (2005) Genetics, Egypt, and History... History in Africa, 32, 221-246

 -
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
As we can see here, he/ it/ she can't answer the question properly and intelligently.

You can't present a question correctly within a meaningful context.

So he/ it/ she starts to distort, with a cartoon.

It seemed so fitting for someone like you.

What kind of environmental and climactical conditions are needed for certain appearances like light skin, thin hair, a thin nose. That is the question.

Temperate to cold climates.


Secondly, what is the environment and climactical condition like in Egypt. Northeast Africa.

Hot and arid

Was all this environment and climactic adaption before or after the autosomal

that question makes no sense

And don't listen to zarahan. There variation in homo sapiens early on, as some mixed with neanderthal. There were skulls found in Israel which had already had semi Eurasian features from over 70,000 yeras ago.

Does he think the hyksos were Blacks lol.

Also ask him if all these people in West Asia were tropically adapted Blacks, How and when did the current Eurasian/Arab phenotype take hold there? What historical migration or events can he cite which might explain things? [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
Was all this environment and climactic adaption before or after the autosomal

quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:


that question makes no sense


It makes sense, but not to you.


Secondly, what is the environment and climactical condition like in Egypt. Northeast Africa.

quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:


Hot and arid

Yup, and here is where you fail. [Smile] [Big Grin] [Cool]
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
As we can see here, he/ it/ she can't answer the question properly and intelligently.


Secondly, what is the environment and climactical condition like in Egypt. Northeast Africa.

Hot and arid

Was all this environment and climactic adaption before or after the autosomal

that question makes no sense


Yup, and here is where you fail. [Smile] [Big Grin] [Cool]
If you say so.. But if you don't mind, It's time for me to start enjoying my weekend.

Cheers!
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
As we can see here, he/ it/ she can't answer the question properly and intelligently.


Secondly, what is the environment and climactical condition like in Egypt. Northeast Africa.

Hot and arid

Was all this environment and climactic adaption before or after the autosomal

that question makes no sense


Yup, and here is where you fail. [Smile] [Big Grin] [Cool]
If you say so.. But if you don't mind, It's time for me to start enjoying my weekend.

Cheers!

Yes I know what I speak of, so do I say. So do others who show the actual data.


quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:

Excellent job Patrol. The environmental and climatic


Indeed, part of Egypt itself falls within the tropical zone



quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:

And don't listen to zarahan. There variation in homo sapiens early on, as some mixed with neanderthal. There were skulls found in Israel which had already had semi Eurasian features from over 70,000 yeras ago.

Also ask him if all these people in West Asia were tropically adapted Blacks, How and when did the current Eurasian/Arab phenotype take hold there? What historical migration or events can he cite which might explain things?

Lastly, you aren't the one who is going to tell me what I should ask, to who.


And again your insertion on crania data made no sense. But I think this is what he is referring to, are at least something like this. When speaking of WestAsia.


quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation,

which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15).Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory. --Moorjani et al.


"Clade E lineages were more frequent in the Greeks (21%) as compared to Pakistan (4%). The majority of haplogroup E chromosomes belonged to clade E3b and all Greek and Pakistani samples were resolved into the branches E3b1 (M78) and E3b3 (M123). Among the three Pakistani populations claiming Greek descent, this clade was observed only in the Pathans. The Pathan samples belonged to clade E3b1 that constituted 17% of the Greek samples.--Sadaf Firasat et al.


And multiple streams of migrations of Hg E-78* have moved into Arabian Peninsula and South West Asia. This is how the Afroasiatic phylum spread into the Arabian Peninsula to West Asia. [Cool]


 -

 -

 -



 
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 

Also ask him if all these people in West Asia were tropically adapted Blacks, How and when did the current Eurasian/Arab phenotype take hold there? What historical migration or events can he cite which might explain things?


^^The studies cited do not say when any so-called
"Eurasian/Arab phenotype" took hold in West Asia.
They simply correctly note that tropical phenotypes
are represented. If you have any questions take them
up with the aforementioned scholars, already fully cited.
In any event it is common knowledge
that migrations of Indo-European speakers to join
with in situ populations have been ongoing into
the West Asia for centuries. Pick whatever migration
date suits you. See - The Oxford Companion to
Archaeology - Edited by Brian M. Fagan, Oxford
University Press, 1996. 275-362

-------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

moorjani 2011- African gene flow into Eurasia-West Asia longstanding for thousands of years

QUOTE:

"Previous genetic studies have suggested a history of sub-Saharan African gene flow into some West Eurasian populations after the initial dispersal out of Africa that occurred at least 45,000 years ago. However, there has been no accurate characterization of the proportion of mixture, or of its date. We analyze genome-wide polymorphism data from about 40 West Eurasian groups to show that almost all Southern Europeans have inherited 1%–3% African ancestry with an average mixture date of around 55 generations ago, consistent with North African gene flow at the end of the Roman Empire and subsequent Arab migrations. Levantine groups harbor 4%–15% African ancestry with an average mixture date of about 32 generations ago, consistent with close political, economic, and cultural links with Egypt in the late middle ages. We also detect 3%–5% sub-Saharan African ancestry in all eight of the diverse Jewish populations that we analyzed. For the Jewish admixture, we obtain an average estimated date of about 72 generations. This may reflect descent of these groups from a common ancestral population that already had some African ancestry prior to the Jewish Diasporas...

To gain insight into the African source populations, we carried out PCA analyses, which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12). We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation, which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15). Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory.

In summary, we have documented a contribution of sub-Saharan African genetic material to many West Eurasian populations in the last few thousand years. A priority for future work should be to identify the source populations for this admixture. "


-- Moorjani P, et al. (2011) The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews. PLoS Genet 7(4): e1001373.

-------------

^^GOod ref patrol, showing that West Asia has
always had tropical African types for thousands
of years. The researchers show this result even though
the sampling data is skewed in part, towards Nigerians as
sub-Saharan "representatives". East Africa, including
Ethiopia and SOmalia is itself located below the
Sahara desert and they are thus "sub Saharan" -
a fact assorted "biodiversity" claimants conveniently miss.

In any event, said tropical types were in place in various eras,
or contributing gene flow via movement across and
within those eras. Indeed the OOA exit would have
involved the Africans moving out into the "Middle East",
and Asia. It is thus no surprise to see such
phenotypes represented in West Asia, defeating
desperate, and bogus "biodiversity" fantasies of
"white backflow" as explanations for the fundamental
diversity of African peoples.
Chancellor Williams is outdated as a source, but he
had some insights into the diversity of African peoples,
and the fact that they are well represented in West
Asia depending on the era and locale, and were not
static entities huddled behind some artifical "sub-Saharan"
apartheid line, as the racist scholars he fought against
in his time claimed.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:

Also ask him if all these people in West Asia were tropically adapted Blacks, How and when did the current Eurasian/Arab phenotype take hold there? What historical migration or events can he cite which might explain things?


^^The studies cited do not say when any so-called
"Eurasian/Arab phenotype" took hold in West Asia.
They simply correctly note that tropical phenotypes
are represented. If you have any questions take them
up with the aforementioned scholars, already fully cited.
In any event it is common knowledge
that migrations of Indo-European speakers to join
with in situ populations have been ongoing into
the West Asia for centuries. Pick whatever migration
date suits you. See - The Oxford Companion to
Archaeology - Edited by Brian M. Fagan, Oxford
University Press, 1996. 275-362

Yes, the source by Chancellor Williams is somewhat outdated. But, it did its job during those days.

And gives good insight and explanation on migrations from Africa into the Levant, and West Asia.


A second/ new edition would do good.
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
The studies cited do not say when any so-called
"Eurasian/Arab phenotype" took hold in West Asia.
They simply correctly note that tropical phenotypesare represented. If you have any questions take them up with the aforementioned scholars, already fully cited. In any event it is common knowledge that migrations of Indo-European speakers to join with in situ populations have been ongoing into
the West Asia for centuries. Pick whatever migration date suits you.


Ha! Tis as I thought. Your knowledge of the Middle East is laugahbale. First of all the Cuacasian phenotype is not unique to Indo-Europeans and there have been no significant movements of Indo Europeans reaching down into southern mesopotamia or the Arabian peninsula. The closest I can think of were the Cimmerians. Admit it, you haven't a clue how they changed. And to leave you even more perplexed, here is a photo of the former Arabian ambassador Turki al Faisal.

 -

Oh and here is Saudi Princess Dalal Al Saud.

 - [Smile]
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Hey moron! Apparently you haven't heard that there is no such thing as "caucasian" phenotype. Though if by "caucasian" you mean European judging by those pics, apparently you don't know much about the pedigree of the Saudi royal families who are widely known to have saqaliba (Slavic slave) concubine ancestry. Even today Saudi princes have a penchant for adding white women to their harem or indulge in the white sex slave trafficking via Turkey that hasn't stopped since Ottoman times!
quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

Lol Sho ya right!

"The earliest known back migration of R1b was from Asia to Africa and took place around 15,000 years ago. A group of R1b1* people moving from the Levant to Egypt, Sudan and spreading in different directions inside Africa to Rwanda, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, Congo, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau. The hotspot is Cameroon. R1b1* was observed at a frequency of up to 95% in some tribes of northern Cameroon (like the Kirdi), and about 15% nationwide. It is in all likelihood where the early R1b people first settled, then spread south and east along the coast."

And yet it is strange that the highest incidence and diversity of not only R1b1* but R1* occurs in Western and Central Africa as per your source. In fact R1b1a (V88) has its highest frequency in Cameroon along with R1*. By the way, you didn't cite the source of your quote.

M173 chromosomes (group R) are observed in
the Bantu of southern Cameroon (14.3%), Oman (10.7%), Egypt (6.8%), and the Hutu (1.4%). Whereas the R1*-M173 undifferentiated lineage is present in all four populations, the two downstream mutations, M17 and M269, are confined to Egypt and Oman.
Luis et. ales, 'The Horn vs. the Levant' (2004)

^ Notice how the downstream markers are present in Egypt and Oman, countries associated with paleolithic out-of-African migrations. This along with recent studies strongly correlate for AFRICAN origins of the R1 if not R clade itself!

You can read more about it in this thread here.

quote:
"The cooler climate and over-exploitation of resources led to the failure of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic in the Levant. Some Near Eastern farmers crossed Sinai into North Africa around 6,000 BC, taking sheep, goats, wheat and barley with them. That agro-pastoralist dispersal has been linked to subclades of the Y haplogroups E1b and R1b."
s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/3081519/1/

Eeeh! WRONG. This theory was debunked by linguistics (showing NO Semitic or any other Asiatic influence) as well as bio-anthropology (skeletal remains showing no such entry) and of course archaeology which shows non either. It is because of all this that Egyptology suggests the Delta people merely adopted these animals and plants on their own which is why they used their own terms for these domesticates. On the other hand, we have all the evidence for the converse-- Africans moving into the Levant via. the Natufian culture.

quote:
"Sergio Tofanelli and colleagues have investigated the modern-day distribution of Y haplogroup J1 (M267) across North Africa as well as the Middle East. They reject the idea that this can be explained simply by the spread of Islam. They find that coalescence times for lineages point to the more distant past: the period between 5,500 and 7,200 BP (3,500-5,200 BC)"
Maybe for a relatively few which were in conjunction with the expansion of E1b1b in the Mediterranean. Besides, J1 is shown to have originated in central to southern Arabia (Yemenis having the highest frequency) among a population not much different from the Africans right next door. Why there's a discussion about this here.

quote:
There were many migrations into Egypt. We could also talk about hg U.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/4/15/

Yes there were many migrations into Egypt, post-pharaonic era. And we've already discussed U, in particular U6 many times which also indicates African origins. I suggest you look here and here.

quote:
And you forgot the HYKSOS!
Nope. They were kicked out of Egypt by the 18th dynasty. By the way here is a depiction of a Hyksos woman.

 -

Judging by the remnants of paint on her face and her features, she wasn't exactly the fair-and-lovely Syrian you obsess over.

quote:
You clearly talking out ya butt!
No, that's YOU.

quote:
That ain't really true. There is a politically correct trend to ignore Asiatic influences in Egypt...
A trend by who? Afrocentric Egyptologists?? LOL

quote:
"It was immediately clear to the excavators that the Merimdens were radically different from the peoples of Upper Egypt in every respect - physically, culturally, and technologically. Their burial customs were similar to those of the southwestern, Semitic-type Asians, and strikingly different from those of all the Africans. Whereas the African tradition was to bury the dead with a variety of earthly goods to sustain them in the afterlife, and with amulets to protect them from malevolent spirits, the graves of the Merimdens contained no grave offerings of any kind..."
So? It's widely known in Egyptology that the early graves and settlements overall of the Delta are much poorer and scant compared to contemporary Upper Egypt, though this changes in later periods. I find it funny that they use a lack of evidence as evidence for something else. Usually in archaeology conclusions can only be made from material evidence, not a lack of it. I also find it strange how they use the linguistic label of Semitic when there is no way of knowing what language a people used without writing.

quote:
"Throughout the village clusters of baskets or jars serving as granaries were buried up to their necks in the ground, Circular, clay-lined threshing floors also seemed to be associated with individual dwellings. The Merimdens clearly lived in more or less economically independent single family units, the foundation of the same type of patriarchal system being formed at the time in the Semitic cultures of southwestern Asia. They contrasted sharply with the autarchic systems being generated in Upper Egypt.
The argument that single family dwellings represent patriarchal systems but ‘long house’ or large clan dwellings represent matriarchal or matrix ones is not fully valid and outdated. For example, there is historical evidence that early Semitic nomads who were matrilineal still lived in single family tents such as early Canaanites, Aramaeans, and even some early Arab tribes. The clan was not tightly nit around a single home but more spread out in an area with each tent or home having a mother descended from the clan matriarch along with a mother’s brother who protected her and served as ‘father’ to the children whose biological father may stay temporarily or visit. This form of marriage was called ‘beena’ in Semitic culture as opposed to the later ‘baal’ system of marriage where the husband is lord and master. This custom is also carried by matriarchal Berber societies as you yourself noted in another thread and is found as far east as Nepal and Tibet with historical evidence suggesting that it was also practiced by some tribes in Siberia. All these societies though matrilineal had each family reside in a dwelling of their own. Many think this was done to spare resources which could not support a large population at a time. I find it funny how you claim the matriarchy of the Berbers in another thread, but now cite a source claiming the closely related Egyptians to be more akin to later patriarchal Semites, even though this runs counter to historical claims of the ancient Greeks who not only spoke of the high status of Egyptian women (whom they encountered in the Delta), but even claimed an early Delta Egyptian queen Myrina (Merineit?) was descended from Libyan Amazons.

quote:
[Merimde] shows none of the distinctively Egyptian characteristics... In its general aspects, Merimde seems more like a village of sturdy yeoman farmers than a collection of peasants subject to the whims, avarice, and authority of a powerful man or a government, although some cooperative efforts (if not collectivization of food-producing tasks) are recalled by the threshing floors up to 13 feet in diameter.2
Now I know there is something fishy about the author, judging by his biased and negative tone. So I take it he finds distinct Egyptian characteristics to mean a tyrannical king and his enslaved subjects! And I suppose the Upper Egyptians were not yeoman farmers, even though they too grew their food along the Nile.

quote:
During the Naqada period the Asiatic communities of Lower Egypt began to spread upstream (southward). Several groups of farming communities were established just below modern Cairo. In 1924 a young Egyptian mineralogist, Amin el Omari, discovered the ruins of such a community in the periphery of his home town, Helwan, about twenty-three kilometers south of Cairo. Tragically, the youthful scientist died shortly thereafter. The town, and other such villages found in the region thereafter were named after him - Omari A, B, and C, as was the culture they represented...
And again that these Lower Egyptian communities were ‘Asiatic’ were based on what? The flimsy hypothesis of the author based on inconclusive evidence??

quote:
The Omari villages were urbanized centers into which was introduced an impressive array of Asian agricultural products such as sycamore dates and figs, domesticated wild sugar, emmer wheat, and an evolved type of barley. The domesticated Omari animals, like those of Fayoum A and Merimde, were Mesopotamian varieties of pigs, goats, and cows. The bones of such animals were found in abundance, along with an assortment of the bones of wild animals, birds and fish of Lower Egypt. The separate housing and facilities of the villagers, each of which was self-contained, reflect the egalitarian character of Omari life. The tools, the pottery, and the method of burial of the earlier Omari periods all resembled those of southwestern Asia and those of the other Asiatic villages to the north. Archaeologists took note of this distinct culture by referring to it as the "Deltic Tradition."
http://www.hebrewhistory.info/factpapers/fp010-1_egypt.htm

LMAO [Big Grin] Now it all makes sense!! You speak of a “politically correct trend to ignore Asiatic influence”, yet the trend is actually the opposite—to ignore African influence and emphasize an Asiatic one, and nowhere is this clearer than in your very source which is just one of various academic factions by some Jews to claim a Jewish origin for early civilizations in the so-called ‘Near East’ including Egypt! Yet such claims are contradicted by mainstream archaeology including Egyptology. We already schooled our misguided Jewish friend Osirion on this.

Here is a much more reliable source:

Neolithic Period to Egypt's Dynasty 1
by Bruce B. Williams, Research Associate
Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago

Cultures of Northern Egypt


From the western delta to south of the Fayum, the cultures of northern Egypt occur largely in single sites or restricted areas, rather than extensive horizons. The emergence of distinct cultural traditions in northern Egypt has often been connected to the later canonical division between Upper and Lower Egypt, although these early cultures were actually located in large part south of the Delta in areas assigned to Upper Egypt. In order of appearance, the site phases are Merimda (early and main) at the western edge of the delta; Fayum A; sites near the northern shore of Lake Oarun el-Omani and Maadi just south of modern Cairo; and possibly Buto, in the northwest delta.

1. Domestic Economies. The domestic economies of northern Egypt were substantially supported by agriculture which concentrated on the cultivation of cereals. Animals such as sheep, goats, cattle, and dogs were kept; fish and a wide range of animals were taken. Even hippopotamus bones occur in the settlements (Hayes 1965: 93, 112). Hunting this dangerous animal requires the coordinated tactics of bands or crews (but see Eiwanger 1988; 44).

2. Structures and Settlements. Like earlier playa settlements, most habitations were light, irregular or oval structures made of posts and reeds, sometimes plastered with mud. Many had hearths and circular storage pits nearby, some of which were lined with baskets or mud. At Maadi, some light structures were rectangular. The settlements had no regular plan, but part of a ditch and palisade were found at Maadi, in addition to large communal storage areas. Merimda contained a number of oval structures about two meters long, built of mud or mud slabs with floors below ground level. Sometimes a small jar would be imbedded in the floor near one end of the oval, and a stick or hippopotamus tibia would be plastered against the wall near the opposite end (Hayes 1965: 105). The buildings, some arranged as though on a lane (Hayes 1965: 105), were built only in restricted areas, probably for a special purpose (Eiwanger 1982: 68). They may be related to structures at Maadi that were sunk into the ground over two meters and approached by steps. One very large (10 x 6 x 2 m) and elaborate brick-lined sunken structure had a special entry and a niche. It was found with a cemetery and large deposits of fish and pottery vessels, many containing grain. These structures at Merimda and Maadi, especially the large building, may represent a tradition of religious architecture (Anonymous 1986).

3. Religious Practice. Other evidence of religious practice includes burials, deposits, and possibly structural features. Early Merimda contained a small cemetery of contracted burials, mostly placed with the heads south, on the right side. Later, burials in the Merimda levels were oriented irregularly (Eiwanger 1982; Hayes 1965: 112-13). In the el-Omari and Maadi phases, burials were made in cemeteries, some of them very large. Grave goods were deposited with later burials, and some later graves have simple dolmen-like superstructures. Even some goats were buried at Heliopolis with grave goods (Debono and Mortenson 1988: 39, 46-48). Female figurines and an eggshaped terra-cotta head from Merimda are not readily connected to known traditions, but a deposit with axes and a hippopotamus figurine (Eiwanger 1982: 76-80; 1988; 46) and the hippopotamus tibia used as steps may be forerunners of Egyptian magical practices.

4. Manufactured Goods. The handmade pottery of earliest Merimda was relatively fine, but apart from some stands, the mostly ovoid shapes were simpler than later pottery. Many vessels were pattern burnished with a pebble. Some vessels have a band of incised herringbone decoration, a feature that occurs both in Palestine and elsewhere in northern Africa (Eiwanger 1984: 61). The pottery of later Merimda was coarser, with vegetable temper. Shapes remained simple, but knobs and lugs were sometimes applied (Hayes 1965: 106-107; Eiwanger 1979: 28-38, 56; 1988: 15-33, pls, 1-32). Most vessels were burnished, with a dark surface color. This simple pottery continued at Maadi. Only a few pieces were decorated in red paint on a light ground, and the finer red and black burnished vessels were accompanied by much coarse dark pottery, and some very large storage jars (Ibrahim and Seeher 1987: pls. 2,2 and 28,2). In other industries, the stone vessels of Maadi were more elaborate than those found at Merinda (Hayes 1965:126). Copper was also worked at Maadi from imported ores.

5. Trade. Trade and contacts expanded greatly between the time of Merimda and Maadi, but imports from the East primarily consisted of raw materials such as copper ore and asphalt, or oils; most objects were made locally or regionally, although wavy-handled jars were imported from southwest Asia and some vessels and other objects were imported or imitated from Upper Egypt (Kaiser 1985: 70; Ibrahim and Seeher 1984; vorr der Way 1987; 242-247, 256-257).

6. End of Northern Egypt. Maadi ended early in the second phase (II) of Upper Egypt's Naqada culture; Kaiser 1985: fig.10). The settlement seems to have been finally destroyed by fire (Hayes 1965: 123). Maadi was the last of Lower Egypt's cultures in the area, although Buto in the Delta where a settlement with a cemetery has recently been found may continue (von der Way 1986; 1987: 242-247, including Naqada II pottery; Kaiser 1985: fig.10).

7. Summary. In northern Egypt, a large number of small, shifting villages probably sustained a few more permanent large settlements (Eiwanger 1987: fig.9). Consolidated in the area of Helwan and Maadi, these centers transcended the shifting earlier habitations without eliminating cultural variations (Kaiser 1985: 67), a contrast with the more uniform Naqada culture of Upper Egypt.


Oh my. One can now see the type of info your source 'Hebrew History' happened to omit. Foremost, the earliest settlements in the Delta occur in the southern areas, specifically the southwest and NOT the northeast as one would expect Asiatics to settle. 1. While they utilized animals originally of Asian origin like sheep, they also utilized native African animals like hippos. 2. They built typical African style reed and mud huts, some oval some rectangular shaped. 3. While early Merimda burials had no items, the bodies were interred with heads facing south on the right side similar to Upper Egyptians. 4. They had a pottery style used not only in Palestine but in much of North Africa. 5. While they conducted trade with Asia, they mostly imported raw material while manufacturing their own goods just like Upper Egyptians. Again NO evidence that the Delta people themselves were from Asia, and I noticed you ignored the source I cited showing skeletal that they are a continuation of Africans NOT Asians.

quote:
Generally the men spend more time outdoors in the elements. That is the real reason. Dummy. The daker coloring of the Egyptian men is really due to ..tanning.
I already told you the women staying indoors is a myth, since yellow colored women are shown in art working outdoors alongside men also! So you think that the original complexions of the men were yellowish like the women but when they tanned they became chocolate dark like these men?

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 -
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That’s one hell of a tan!! LOL [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13

"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)...... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of negroid origin."

]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15804821
[/b]

Upper Egypt is down in the South near Sudan. They was mosly Black.. Dontcha know nuthin??

Are you on drugs with your weird typed grammar and illogical geography?? Lower Egypt is right next to Upper Egypt with NOTHING separating them. In fact, Thebes is about as close to the Sudanese border as it is to the Delta. So what exactly makes the Lower Egyptians non-black when the Upper Egyptians are??
quote:
And what is this question you keep sayin I'm avioding?
"What is mandated for certain (Mediterranean) traits, we speak of, to appear. What is required? Alias clown!"

quote:
Autosomal DNA.

Now Begone!

Pray tell what source of ancient Lower or Delta Egyptian autosomal DNA supports your claims??

I have heard of non extracted thus far, though we have evidence of their very skeletons:

Moving to the opposite geographic extremity, the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty(Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile Valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans.--Barry Kemp, Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation

We've long had cranial evidence showing close affinity to Upper Egyptians. DNA will be the final nail in your coffin. [Embarrassed]
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

"Clade E lineages were more frequent in the Greeks (21%) as compared to Pakistan (4%). The majority of haplogroup E chromosomes belonged to clade E3b and all Greek and Pakistani samples were resolved into the branches E3b1 (M78) and E3b3 (M123). Among the three Pakistani populations claiming Greek descent, this clade was observed only in the Pathans. The Pathan samples belonged to clade E3b1 that constituted 17% of the Greek samples.--Sadaf Firasat et al.

And multiple streams of migrations of Hg E-78* have moved into Arabian Peninsula and South West Asia. This is how the Afroasiatic phylum spread into the Arabian Peninsula to West Asia. [Cool]
 -

Indeed. Not only to do we have linguistic evidence to support so-called Afroasiatic's origin in Africa with Semitic being the only non-African outlier, but DNA evidence both in Y-chromosomal & mitochondrial lineages show emigrations of Africans into right next-door Arabia and Levant.

quote:
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Actually this picture shows a Persian, specifically Elamite, warrior. The Elamites were the indigenous people of Iran and founders of civilization there prior to Indo-European speaking Persians. This comes to show that even Eurasians come in black looks, which again throws a monkey wrench in the Malcontent's protests of "Eurasian" as if the label is a proxy for non-black.

quote:
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I read this book many years ago during my initial research into Egypt's African identity and the author Williams had it wrong when he said Lower Egyptian Delta culture was the product of invading Asiatics who mixed with natives. His thesis was little different from the Malcontent's. We now know that Delta culture was just as indigenous and African as their Upper/Southern Egyptian Valley brethren.
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
Hey moron! Apparently you haven't heard that there is no such thing as "caucasian" phenotype. Though if by "caucasian" you mean European judging by those pics, apparently you don't know much about the pedigree of the Saudi royal families who are widely known to have saqaliba (Slavic slave) concubine ancestry.

Caucasian pehenotype isn't limited to Europeans you numbskull. What about Kurds, Iranians, Northern Indians?
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Iranian Woman.
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Caucasisn features are all over Western Asia.
All you can do is lie and make believe.


The argument that single family dwellings represent patriarchal systems but ‘long house’ or large clan dwellings represent matriarchal or matrix ones is not fully valid and outdated. For example, there is historical evidence that early Semitic nomads who were matrilineal still lived in single family tents such as early Canaanites, Aramaeans, and even some early Arab tribes

That is not the only basis for their conclusions ignoramus.

Now it all makes sense!! You speak of a “politically correct trend to ignore Asiatic influence”, yet the trend is actually the opposite—to ignore African influence and emphasize an Asiatic one, and nowhere is this clearer than in your very source which is just one of various academic factions by some Jews to claim a Jewish origin for early civilizations in the so-called ‘Near East’ including Egypt!

Oh really?? Read it again.

"The tools, the pottery, and the method of burial of the earlier Omari periods all resembled those of southwestern Asia and those of the other Asiatic villages to the north. Archaeologists took note of this distinct culture by referring to it as the "Deltic Tradition."


Again NO evidence that the Delta people themselves were from Asia, and I noticed you ignored the source I cited showing skeletal that they are a continuation of Africans NOT Asians.

Sigh..please tell me what great barrier sperated Egyptians from palestine and the Levant? You don't even seem to understand that the term Asian and Afrcan is only relative here. Did not many folks in Palestine etc descend from the E carrying African Natufians?? Would palestinian skeletons be so vastly different then?

Your sour says...the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt ..then goes on to say this. ..The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans

Suddlenly the author jumps from Palestinians to Europeans. So who is he really comparing the Egyptians to? What is his real aganda. Most sudies will show differences in between Lower and Upper Egyptians with the the Latter being more tropically adapted closer to Nubians and the former much less so. Thats a fact.


Lower Egypt is right next to Upper Egypt with NOTHING separating them. In fact, Thebes is about as close to the Sudanese border as it is to the Delta. So what exactly makes the Lower Egyptians non-black when the Upper Egyptians are??

Damn you are dumb. To you have any idea how large Egypt is. Only a serious simpleton would say that Lower Egypt is right next to Upper Egypt. Lol! [Roll Eyes]

Pray tell what source of ancient Lower or Delta Egyptian autosomal DNA supports your claims?? I have heard of non extracted thus far, though we have evidence of their very skeletons



I'll do you one better. How about aDNA from further South in Egypt??

"Attempts to extract ancient DNA or aDNA from Ancient Egyptian remains have yielded mainly Eurasian DNA types from the Dakleh Oasis cemetery site (from Southern Egypt), and they show a considerable increase in the amount of sub Saharan mitchondrial DNA over the past 2,000 years, suggesting that within this timeframe there was more migration from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Nile Valley than from Eurasia to the latter. One successful study was performed on ancient mummies of the 12th Dynasty, by Paabo and Di Rienzo, which identified multiple lines of descent, a minority of which originated in sub-Saharan Africa."
Paabo, S., and A. Di Rienzo, A molecular approach to the study of Egyptian history. In Biological Anthropology and the Study of Ancient Egypt. V. Davies and R. Walker, eds. pp. 86-90. London: British Museum Press. 1993

How many more nails would you like for your coffin? [Big Grin]

Oh and I love your Black Egyptian with the Afro. How typical he must have been when we know from mummies that most Egyptians had staright to wavy hair with aquiline noses. [Wink]

Actually this picture shows a Persian, specifically Elamite, warrior. The Elamites were the indigenous people of Iran and founders of civilization there prior to Indo-European speaking Persians. This comes to show that even Eurasians come in black looks, which again throws a monkey wrench in the Malcontent's protests of "Eurasian" as if the label is a proxy for non-black.

Yeah right a Persian with a straight nose and Blues eyes. Brilliant! [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

Caucasian pehenotype isn't limited to Europeans you numbskull. What about Kurds, Iranians, Northern Indians?
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Iranian Woman.
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Caucasisn features are all over Western Asia.
All you can do is lie and make believe.

"Caucasian" features can refer to many things such as long narrow noses which are found in Sub-Saharan Africans as well. You do realize that the very term "caucasian" as a scientific entity is debunked, right?! If not, then please give me a specific definition!

quote:
That is not the only basis for their conclusions ignoramus.
Really? What else? "They" [your source] is flawed to begin with, and I'd rather trust mainstream Egyptology for obvious reasons.

quote:
Oh really?? Read it again.

"The tools, the pottery, and the method of burial of the earlier Omari periods all resembled those of southwestern Asia and those of the other Asiatic villages to the north. Archaeologists took note of this distinct culture by referring to it as the "Deltic Tradition."

Actually, Egyptology has shown that all these traits were found earliest in the western Sahara FIRST before the Delta itself, let alone the Levant.

quote:
Sigh..please tell me what great barrier sperated Egyptians from palestine and the Levant? You don't even seem to understand that the term Asian and Afrcan is only relative here. Did not many folks in Palestine etc descend from the E carrying African Natufians?? Would palestinian skeletons be so vastly different then?
Stupid strawman arguments. Of course there was no barrier between the Delta and Palestine. However all the evidence (from mainstream Egpytology) shows the Delta people did NOT originate from Palestine, and that prior to Merimda the African Mushabeans migrated into Palestine to give rise to the Natufians hence, the similarities nitwit!

quote:
Your source says...the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt ..then goes on to say this. ..The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans

Suddlenly the author jumps from Palestinians to Europeans. So who is he really comparing the Egyptians to? What is his real agenda. Most studies will show differences in between Lower and Upper Egyptians with the the Latter being more tropically adapted closer to Nubians and the former much less so. Thats a fact.

LOL More spinning from you. First, it is a well known fact that predynastic settlements in the Delta are small and scanty compared to Upper Egypt to begin with, so of course the sample size is small! Second, there are sources that show the population in the Levant have cold adapted traits more similar to Europeans than to Africans. The study I presented verifies that the Delta folk ARE Africans, thus their tropical adapted traits. As for most studies you speak of showing differences between Lower and Upper Egyptians, those studies were on cranial features which are more plastic and don't give as good indication of latitudinal origins as skeletal bodies!! So what if Upper Egyptians are closer to Nubians? Lower Egyptians are closer to Asiatics, but that does not mean they are of Asiatic origins!! Their skeletons show they share the same tropical ancestry as their Upper Egyptian brethren which cranial studies show more similarities as well than differences!

quote:
Damn you are dumb. To you have any idea how large Egypt is. Only a serious simpleton would say that Lower Egypt is right next to Upper Egypt. Lol!
[Eek!] YOU are the dummy!! Yes Egypt is large, but please show me the dividing line between Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt! What is the exact border that separates them??

quote:
I'll do you one better. How about aDNA from further South in Egypt??

"Attempts to extract ancient DNA or aDNA from Ancient Egyptian remains have yielded mainly Eurasian DNA types from the Dakleh Oasis cemetery site (from Southern Egypt), and they show a considerable increase in the amount of sub Saharan mitchondrial DNA over the past 2,000 years, suggesting that within this timeframe there was more migration from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Nile Valley than from Eurasia to the latter. One successful study was performed on ancient mummies of the 12th Dynasty, by Paabo and Di Rienzo, which identified multiple lines of descent, a minority of which originated in sub-Saharan Africa."
Paabo, S., and A. Di Rienzo, A molecular approach to the study of Egyptian history. In Biological Anthropology and the Study of Ancient Egypt. V. Davies and R. Walker, eds. pp. 86-90. London: British Museum Press. 1993

How many more nails would you like for your coffin? [Big Grin]

LOL I don't have a coffin since I'm not dead like YOU. Can please cite from your source what exactly is 'Eurasian' about the autosomes?? Since I and others from this thread have read sources before claiming Eurasian DNA in ancient African remains only to see those claims debunked. Your source then goes into mitochondrial DNA; what lineages were those and what exactly makes them sub-Saharan as opposed to indigenous?? By the way, I can name the African autosomal traits in ancient Greeks like Benin HBS and African mitochondrial lineages like N1a. Can you provide me more details from your source? [Wink]

quote:
Oh and I love your Black Egyptian with the Afro. How typical he must have been when we know from mummies that most Egyptians had straight to wavy hair with aquiline noses. [Wink]
Actually the Egyptian with the afro was 18th dynasty king Amenhotep III the father of Akhenaten and grandfather of Tutankhamun. Like most Egyptians especially the elite his afro was likely a wig, which makes one wonder why Egyptians wore wigs in such obvious African hairstyles from afros to braids. Also it is a known fact that hair does not retain the same form after thousands of years post-mortem especially when affected by embalming chemicals like natron used in Egyptian mummification. Besides, wavy hair and aquiline noses are not unusual for east Africans in Sub-Sahara and even some West Africans for that matter. So are you suggesting those are "caucasian traits" again??

quote:
Yeah right a Persian with a straight nose and Blues eyes. Brilliant! [Roll Eyes]
And BLACK SKIN according to that picture which makes him indigenous to Iran and thus not ethnically Persian. There are indigenous Indians with straight noses, green eyes, and still black skinned. What's your point??
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
By the way, you never answered my question Malcontent. Who is closer to King Tut here in complexion?

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Your cherry picked Egyptian girl?

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Or this Egyptian boy from rural Luxor?

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Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
By the way, you never answered my question Malcontent. Who is closer to King Tut here in complexion?

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Your cherry picked Egyptian girl?

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Or this Egyptian boy from rural Luxor?

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Yes, this is what the average boy from Luxor looks like.

Now, the part that clown with the imaginary black father couldn't comprehend, is that in some parts it can get very cold during the night and early morning, like °F 37.4 sometimes lower. As the temperature rises slow during 6-am and 10-am to °F 60.8. Then rises quickly up to °F 77 and higher to during the middle of the day, till it reacher its hot peak. In the afternoon is lowers again by 22:00 PM it has dropped dramatically, already

This brought rise to the (Kushitic) phenotype we see in Northeast Africans. And we know diet too effects the body.

Anyone who thinks this change of climate and temperature in such small time frame doesn't effect the body morphologically, doesn't understand physical anthropology.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by melchior7:
The studies cited do not say when any so-called
"Eurasian/Arab phenotype" took hold in West Asia.
They simply correctly note that tropical phenotypesare represented. If you have any questions take them up with the aforementioned scholars, already fully cited. In any event it is common knowledge that migrations of Indo-European speakers to join with in situ populations have been ongoing into
the West Asia for centuries. Pick whatever migration date suits you.


Ha! Tis as I thought. Your knowledge of the Middle East is laugahbale. First of all the Cuacasian phenotype is not unique to Indo-Europeans and there have been no significant movements of Indo Europeans reaching down into southern mesopotamia or the Arabian peninsula. The closest I can think of were the Cimmerians. Admit it, you haven't a clue how they changed. And to leave you even more perplexed, here is a photo of the former Arabian ambassador Turki al Faisal.

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Oh and here is Saudi Princess Dalal Al Saud.

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Besides what Djehuti stated. Are they warm/ tropical adapted or cold adapted or maybe intermediate?
 
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 
"Caucasian" features can refer to many things such as long narrow noses which are found in Sub-Saharan Africans as well. You do realize that the very term "caucasian" as a scientific entity is debunked, right?! If not, then please give me a specific definition!

Don't play dumb with me boy. You see the pictures and the simlarities. And for your information the term is still in use. And not without good reason people hwo live in close proximity to each other and share many Characteristics often will tend to have some biological relation. Think Arabs and HOAs.

Really? What else? "They" [your source] is flawed to begin with, and I'd rather trust mainstream Egyptology for obvious reasons.

what you trust in is Afrocentric nonesense from people like Keita.

"Keita is an afrorcentric fraud who distorts evidence; he misquoted Strouhal as saying that 80% of all predynastic Badarian hair was Negroid in origin:

Strouhal (1971) also analyzed hair in his study of 117 Badari crania, in which he concluded that >80% were Negroid; most of these were interpreted as being hybrids.
In some of the Badarian crania hair was preserved, thanks to good conditions in the desert sand. In the first series, according to the descriptions of the excavators, they were curly in 6 cases, wavy in 33 cases and straight in 10 cases. They were black in 16 samples, dark brown in 11, brown in 12, light brown in 1 and grey in 11 cases.

Not once in the original study by Strouhal does it ever indicate that 80% of the hair examined was Negroid in origin!

nowhere in this passage does it ever say that 80% of Badarian hair was Negroid, as Keita falsely claimed! "


Actually, Egyptology has shown that all these traits were found earliest in the western Sahara FIRST before the Delta itself, let alone the Levant.

Sources?

and that prior to Merimda the African Mushabeans migrated into Palestine to give rise to the Natufians hence, the similarities nitwit!

Seem like there is a bit of a contradiction here.

"Pleistocene connections between Africa and SouthWest Asia: an archaeological perspective.

“The Mushabians moved into the Sinai from the Nile Delta, bring North African lithic chipping techniques.”

“Thus the population overflow from Northeast Africa played a definite role in the establishment of the Natufian adaptation, which in turn led to the emergence of agriculture as a new subsistence system.”

By Dr. Ofer Bar-Yosef, 1987;
The African Archaeological Review;
Chapter 5, pg 29-38.

Seems strange that the Palestinian population would be so different.


LOL More spinning from you. First, it is a well known fact that predynastic settlements in the Delta are small and scanty compared to Upper Egypt to begin with, so of course the sample size is small! Second, there are sources that show the population in the Levant have cold adapted traits more similar to Europeans than to Africans. The study I presented verifies that the Delta folk ARE Africans, thus their tropical adapted traits. As for most studies you speak of showing differences between Lower and Upper Egyptians, those studies were on cranial features which are more plastic and don't give as good indication of latitudinal origins as skeletal bodies!! So what if Upper Egyptians are closer to Nubians? Lower Egyptians are closer to Asiatics, but that does not mean they are of Asiatic origins!!

Well now why would they be closer in resemblance to Asiatics if not from admixture?? What is there in Lower Egypt to cuase a change in phenotpye? Asiatics have always been in the area boy!

"Sun-dried mud bricks, a building material characteristic of Lower Mesopotamia, were first employed in Upper Egypt during this period. The use of a distinctly Mesopotamian device, the cylinder seal was introduced and traces of writing appeared. Their images bore a marked resemblance to those of the Land of the Twin Rivers. The pear-shaped stone mace-heads found in an earlier context in the Deltic Asiatic communities such as Merimde, replications of Mesopotamian models, appear in the south in the Gerzean period. The use of metal tools was non-existent in Upper Egypt until the latter part of the Gerzean period. A few metal pins and ornaments first appear which may well have been trade goods. Toward the end of the period a few crude, locally made copper tools do appear. The Copper-Stone Age had finally arrived.

During that same time period, the latter half of the fourth millennium before the Common Era, Mesopotamia had crossed into the Bronze Age. The peoples speaking related "Semitic" dialects were spreading out along the Fertile Crescent from the great cities along the crown of the Crescent. They moved south and east to absorb Sumer, situated strategically athwart the area where the Euphrates and the Tigris meld into the Arabian Gulf. Trade with the peoples of another great and early civilization in the Indus Valley of India reached significant proportions. Traders were likewise ranging westward and established karums, trading villages adjoining the cities of Anatolia. The flow of Asiatic traders down the Nile burgeoned. Along the way they paid tribute to the petty princes along the cliff-lined banks for the right of passage."


Well into dynastic times

"Meanwhile the second king of the Tenth Dynasty, Wahkare Achthoes III, managed to coexist with the Asiatics on the eastern Delta. Since Thebes was advancing in the south, with his ally Asyut he attacked them at This, capturing them "like a cloudburst;" but he regretted allowing his troops to plunder the sacred tombs. Later the Theban King Inyotef II came back and drove the Heracleopolitans out of the Thinite Nome. After this, peace lasted for several decades as Wahkare reigned nearly half a century.

Sesostris I wasted no time in returning to strengthen his rule, and he extended his territory even farther south in Nubia, where gold was being mined for Egypt. Sesostris continued to mine and build, including towering granite obelisks at the Re-Atum temple at Heliopolis used during his Sed festival. At Karnak the god Amen-Re was honored with large structures. Sesostris himself was regarded as a god, and once again the power of the kings increased. He ruled for thirty-five years after his father's death and brought in his own son, Amenemhet II, as co-regent for his last two years. Amenemhet II and Sesostris II increased Egyptian prosperity by reclaiming land for agriculture in the Faiyum depression with surplus Nile water. More Asiatics immigrated into Egypt to work as servants, and trade was established as far away as Crete and Babylon.
http://www.san.beck.org/EC4-Egypt.html

Northern Egyptians were mixed!


Can please cite from your source what exactly is 'Eurasian' about the autosomes??

Obviously they are indentical to those found in Eurasia as opposed to Sub Saharan which they claimed increased in more recent times. Why don't you ask what is Exactly is sub Saharan about them?

Your source then goes into mitochondrial DNA; what lineages were those and what exactly makes them sub-Saharan as opposed to indigenous?? By the way, I can name the African autosomal traits in ancient Greeks like Benin HBS and African mitochondrial lineages like N1a. Can you provide me more details from your source?

First of all N1a is not African but Near Eastern and has it's highest frequency in Arabia. Benin HBS orginates in West Africa. I wonder excatly what historical migration would account this ending up in Greece??

About the study, I know that they found high frequencies of pre HV mtDNA which matched Syrian samples. These declined over time.


Actually the Egyptian with the afro was 18th dynasty king Amenhotep III the father of Akhenaten and grandfather of Tutankhamun. Like most Egyptians especially the elite his afro was likely a wig, which makes one wonder why Egyptians wore wigs in such obvious African hairstyles from afros to braids.

A wig? All he needed was a boom box and he would fit into any US inner city in the 1970's


Also it is a known fact that hair does not retain the same form after thousands of years post-mortem especially when affected by embalming chemicals like natron used in Egyptian mummification.

That's BS and you know it.


"To the Afrocentrists who are spamming this entry with outraged comments along the line of ‘you don’t understand African diversity’, ‘Malcolm X had red hair’, ‘some Africans have Caucasian hair,’ and ‘you’ve never been to Africa’…

The average black American is about 1/5 European, which explains why black Americans occasionally crop up with blue eyes and ginger hair (although Malcolm X only went reddish in summer, not a proper ginger).

The same goes for Caucasian textured hair in Africans. The anthropologists who’ve studied the hair came to the conclusions of mostly Caucasian (Fletcher) to almost half negroid (Eugene Strouhal called it sterotypically mulatto) of the Southern oldest samples, the Badarians. Afrocentrists please note, those Strouhal and Keita studies do not include Northern Egyptians in any way. That Strouhal study is badly misquoted from in the Keita study of Badarian crania: he claimed Strouhal observed the hair to be 80% negroid, but the Strouhal study itself says no such thing, and makes it quite clear that the Southern Egyptians were of mixed ancestry. The Keita study this quote is from even states that the North Egyptian crania are different to the Southern, a fact often ignored once the words ’80% negroid’ are spotted. Also, try reading the other Keita work properly, it places Caucasians all over North Africa from the Oranian paleolithic onwards.

Curiously, these hair studies match the current Egyptian population, nearly half negroid at the South, Caucasian to the North. Coincidence or what?"


Besides, wavy hair and aquiline noses are not unusual for east Africans in Sub-Sahara and even some West Africans for that matter. So are you suggesting those are "caucasian traits" again??

You know it. [Wink]

There are indigenous Indians with straight noses, green eyes, and still black skinned. What's your point??

Really? Post a picture of one.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
The ongoing lies, by the clown above with multiple screen names, are awesome.


Nubia's Oldest House?

Some of the most important evidence of early man in Nubia was discovered recently by an expedition of the Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto, under the direction of Dr. Kryzstof Grzymski, on the east bank of the Nile, about 70 miles (116 km) south of Dongola, Sudan. During the early 1990's, this team discovered several sites containing hundreds of Paleolithic hand axes. At one site, however, the team identified an apparent stone tool workshop, where thousands of sandstone hand axes and flakes lay on the ground around a row of large stones set in a line, suggesting the remains of a shelter. This seems to be the earliest "habitation" site yet discovered in the Nile Valley and may be up to 70,000 years old.


What the Nubian environment was like throughout these distant times, we cannot know with certainty, but it must have changed many times. For many thousands of years it was probably far different than what it is today. Between about 50,000 to 25,000 years ago, the hand axe gradually disappeared and was replaced with numerous distinctive chipped stone industries that varied from region to region, suggesting the presence in Nubia of many different peoples or tribal groups dwelling in close proximity to each other. When we first encounter skeletal remains in Nubia, they are those of modern man: homo sapiens.

Nubia's Oldest Battle?

From about 25,000 to 8,000 years ago, the environment gradually evolved to its present state. From this phase several very early settlement sites have been identified at the Second Cataract, near the Egypt-Sudan border. These appear to have been used seasonally by people leading a semi-nomadic existence. The people hunted, fished, and ground wild grain. The first cemeteries also appear, suggesting that people may have been living at least partly sedentary lives. One cemetery site at Jebel Sahaba, near Wadi Halfa, Sudan, contained a number of bodies that had suffered violent deaths and were buried in a mass grave. This suggests that people, even 10,000 years ago, had begun to compete with each other for resources and were willing to kill each other to control them.

http://www.nubianet.org/about/about_history1.html


FACT is that Nubia is at the South of Egypt. The South is where Egyptian culture arose and spread to the North.This evidence is overwhelming.

http://www.nubianet.org/about/about_history1.html


Busharia reveals the precocious appearance of pottery on the African continent around the 9th millennium B.C.


The site of Busharia is located near the desert, at the edge of the alluvial plain and near an old Nile channel. It reveals the remains of human occupation at the onset of the Holocene. The settlement is rather eroded, only a few artefacts, ostrich egg fragments and extremely old ceramic sherds remain. These sherds date to circa 8200 B.C. The ceramic assemblage is homogenous, which suggests the existence of a single occupation phase. The decorations and the use of the return technique, common in the central Sahara around the 6th millennium B.C., are unique in this Nubian context for such an early period.

Remains discovered on site suggest the existence of a semi-sedentary population living from hunting, fishing, and the gathering of wild plants. A trial trench and a small-scale excavation were conducted on this Mesolithic site; however, it is impossible to obtain at present a better understanding of the context related to the first ceramics in the region. As this site is located near cultivated zones, it is thus threatened with short-term destruction.

http://www.kerma.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=52&Itemid=92

Three scale models—of the Mesolithic hut of el-Barga (7500 B.C.), the proto-urban agglomeration of the Pre-Kerma (3000 B.C.) and the ancient city of Kerma (2500-1500 B.C.)—give a glimpse of the world of the living. They show the evolution of settlements for each of the key periods in Nubian history. Huts indicate the birth of a sedentary way of life, the agglomeration confirms the settling of populations on a territory and the capital of the Kingdom of Kerma marks the culmination of the complexification of Nubian architecture with its ever more monumental constructions. The three models were created in Switzerland by Hugo Lienhard and were installed in the museum in January 2009.

http://www.kerma.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6&Itemid=45&lang=en

Wadi el-Arab reveals an almost continuous series of settlement remains spanning two millennia as well as the first Neolithic burials known in Africa.

This site is located today in a desert region. Discovered in 2005, it has been under excavation since 2006. This is an open-air site occupied on several occasions during a period between 8300 and 6600 B.C. Its inhabitants then lived in a rather wooded environment, living on fishing, hunting and gathering.

The site reveals numerous flint tools and flakes, grinding stone fragments, ceramic sherds, ostrich eggshell beads, shells and mollusc remains, fish vertebrae and faunal remains. Rare domesticated ox bones were discovered and dated to circa 7000 B.C. This discovery is important for the question regarding the origin of animal domestication in Africa because it reinforces the idea of a local domestication of African oxen from aurochs living in the Nile Valley.

During the 2006-2007 campaign, six burial pits were excavated in three different areas. Dated to between 7000 and 6600, these burials are the first known Neolithic burials on the African continent.

http://www.kerma.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=57


Project Director : Prof. Matthieu Honegger


PINHASI Ron, SEMAL Patrick (2000).

The position of the Nazlet Khater specimen among prehistoric and modern African and Levantine populations.


"The morphometric affinities of the 33,000 year old skeleton from Nazlet Khater, Upper Egypt are examined using multivariate statistical procedures.

The results indicate a strong association between some of the sub-Saharan Middle Stone Age (MSA) specimens, and the Nazlet Khater mandible.

Furthermore, the results suggest that variability between African populations during the Neolithic and Protohistoric periods was more pronounced than the range of variability observed among recent African and Levantine populations."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10964529
 
Posted by GOMTUU (Member # 19606) on :
 
Melkior7 alias Garrit level 5 schizo who frequents the Topix forum an spews out his theories founded on nothing
 
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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by malcontent7:

Don't play dumb with me boy. You see the pictures and the similarities. And for your information the term is still in use. And not without good reason people who live in close proximity to each other and share many Characteristics often will tend to have some biological relation. Think Arabs and HOAs.

First off, I'm not a boy but a grown MAN. Second, I'm not playing dumb at all but on the contrary being smart. For something to be scientifically valid, it must have a proper and objective definition. You constantly speak of "caucasians" as a scientific entity, therefore it must have a valid definition. What qualifies one to be "caucasian"?? You're right about people living in close proximity share close genetic affinities but last time I checked Saudi Arabia is not that close to Europe unless you expect us to believe those Euro-looking Saudis are representative of indigenous Arabians! LOL

quote:
What you trust in is Afrocentric nonsense from people like Keita.
Non-sequitor. I don't know what Keita, a bio-anthropologist has anything to do with my response to your source on Egyptian archaeology. In fact, I find it hilarious that you would cite of all things the biased Jewcentric source as Hebrewhistory.info on Egyptian archaeology when there is so much more accurate info from actual mainstream Egyptological sources! LOL As for Keita, how is he Afrocentric? Is it because he exposes Eurocentric biases and turns them on their heads? You do realize that Keita is hailed by his [predominantly white] peers for his objectivity and refuting Eurocentric academic bias that has plagued his field. Even his white mentor Larry Angels supports his work. Don't attack Keita because his work debunks your fraudulent claims. [Big Grin]

quote:
"Keita is an afrorcentric fraud who distorts evidence; he misquoted Strouhal as saying that 80% of all predynastic Badarian hair was Negroid in origin:

Strouhal (1971) also analyzed hair in his study of 117 Badari crania, in which he concluded that 80% were Negroid; most of these were interpreted as being hybrids. In some of the Badarian crania hair was preserved, thanks to good conditions in the desert sand. In the first series, according to the descriptions of the excavators, they were curly in 6 cases, wavy in 33 cases and straight in 10 cases. They were black in 16 samples, dark brown in 11, brown in 12, light brown in 1 and grey in 11 cases.

Not once in the original study by Strouhal does it ever indicate that 80% of the hair examined was Negroid in origin!

nowhere in this passage does it ever say that 80% of Badarian hair was Negroid, as Keita falsely claimed! "

What the hell are you talking about?! Since when did I mention Keita, let alone what said about Strouhal?? But if you insist on going there...

I don't know what Keita said about Strouhal's findings, but here is some more interesting info on Badarian hair by Strouhal.

The cross-section of a hair shaft is measured with an instrument called a trichometer. From this you can get measurements for the minimum and maximum diameter of a hair The minimum measurement is then divided by the maximum and then multiplied by a hundred. This produces an index. A survey of the scientific literature produces the following breakdown:

San, Southern African 55.00
Zulu, Southern African 55.00
Sub-Saharan Africa 60.00
Tasmanian (Black) 64.70
Australian (Black) 68.00
Western European 71.20
Asian Indian 73.00
Navajo American 77.00
Chinese 82.60

In the early 1970s, the Czech anthropologist Eugen Strouhal examined pre-dynastic Egyptian skulls at Cambridge University. He sent some samples of the hair to the Institute of Anthropology at Charles University, Prague, to be analyzed. The hair samples were described as varying in texture from "wavy" to "curly" and in colour from "light brown" to "black". Strouhal summarized the results of the analysis:

"The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians)."

The term "Negroid influence" suggests intermixture, but as the table suggests this hair is more "Negroid" than the San and the Zulu samples, currently the most Negroid hair in existence!

In another study, hair samples from ten 18th-25th dynasty individuals produced an average index of 51! As far back as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey analyzed six ancient Egyptian hair samples. Their average index of 64.4 was similar to the Tasmanians who lie at the periphery of the African-haired populations.

A team of Italian anthropologists published their research in the Journal of Human Evolution in 1972 and 1980. They measured two samples consisting of 26 individuals from pre-dynastic, 12th dynasty and 18th dynasty mummies. They produced a mean index of 66.50.

The overall average of all four sets of ancient Egyptian hair samples was 60.02. Sounds familiar . . ., just check the table!

Since microscopic analysis shows ancient Egyptian hair to be completely African, why does the hair look Caucasoid? Research has given us the answers.

Hair is made of keratin protein. Keratin is composed of amino acid chains called polypeptides. In a hair, two such chains are called cross-chain polypeptides. These are held together by disulphide bonds. The bulk of the hair, the source of its strength and curl, is called the cortex. The hair shafts are made of a protective outer layer called the cuticle.

We are informed by Afro Hair - A Salon Book, that chemicals for bleaching, penning and straightening hair must reach the cortex to be effective. For hair to be permed or straightened the disulphide bonds in the cortex must be broken. The anthropologist Daniel Hardy writing in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, tells us that keratin is stable owing to disulphide bonds. However, when hair is exposed to harsh conditions it can lead to oxidation of protein molecules in the cortex, which leads to the alteration of hair texture, such as straightening.

Two British anthropologists, Brothwell and Spearman, have found evidence of cortex keratin oxidation in ancient Egyptian hair. They held that the mummification process was responsible, because of the strong alkaline substance used. This resulted in the yellowing and browning of hair as well as the straightening effect.

This means that visual appearance of the hair on mummies cannot disguise their racial affinities. The presence of blonde and brown hair on ancient Egyptian mummies has nothing to do with their racial identity and everything to do with mummification and the passage of time. As the studies have shown, when you put the evidence under a microscope the truth comes out.
Anu M'bantu and Fari Supia (2001)

^^ LOL I guess the above is what Keita meant when Strouhal found Badarian hair to be 80% "negroid"; he was referring to the trichometric index!! That's one slap to your head!!

quote:
"Actually, Egyptology has shown that all these traits were found earliest in the western Sahara FIRST before the Delta itself, let alone the Levant."

Sources?

Do you have A-D-D or something?! I just cited a source by Bruce Williams, an actual Egyptologist, who stated that the earliest known settlements in northern Egypt were barely in the delta but were located southwest of it, hence the earliest center of Lower Egyptian culture is the Faiyum A Culture! Even the Merimde culture your source spoke of was located in the western Delta. Here are a couple more sources:

The initial movements westwards across the Sahara and, almost a millennium later, are likely to have been caused by the succession of drought episodes at 7600, 6800-6500, 6100, 5800, and 5500-5400 cal BC (8.6, 7.9-7.7, 7.26, 7, 6.6-6.5 kyr bp)…”-- Fekri Hassan, Droughts, Food, and Culture: Ecological Change and Food Security in Africa’s Prehistory

"..the early cultures of Merimde, the Fayum, Badari Naqada I and II are essentially African and early African social customs and religious beliefs were the root and foundation of the ancient Egyptian way of life." Shaw, Thurston (1976) Changes in African Archaeology in the Last Forty Years in African Studies since 1945

The African nature of Merimde culture is confirmed by archaeologists like Barbara E. Barich, whose work in the Sahara has revealed Merimda’s affinities like cylindrical axes and concave arrowheads to be Libyan while other features like burial of dead right in settlements to be Capsian (Tunisia), while positioning of the dead bodies to be Adrar Bous (Algeria).

The theory that Asiatics were present in the Delta was supposed based on Asian domesticates like plant and animals, but for the second time, these domesticates had fully Egyptian (African) names and the physical remains of the Delta people themselves are also African, as noted by Kemp in his remark on skeletal remains having tropical adapted features!

quote:
“and that prior to Merimda the African Mushabeans migrated into Palestine to give rise to the Natufians hence, the similarities nitwit!”

Seem like there is a bit of a contradiction here.

"Pleistocene connections between Africa and SouthWest Asia: an archaeological perspective.

The Mushabians moved into the Sinai from the Nile Delta, bring North African lithic chipping techniques.

Thus the population overflow from Northeast Africa played a definite role in the establishment of the Natufian adaptation, which in turn led to the emergence of agriculture as a new subsistence system.

By Dr. Ofer Bar-Yosef, 1987;
The African Archaeological Review;
Chapter 5, pg 29-38.

Seems strange that the Palestinian population would be so different.

Nothing strange about it if you understood that the Natufians as a minority stood out from the general population of the region! This is why Yosef and other scholars noted their distinguishing features. Obviously these people were absorbed into the greater Asiatic population since their African lineages like PN2 still survive today among the populace which obviously are not generally speaking African or black in appearance!

quote:
Well now why would they be closer in resemblance to Asiatics if not from admixture?? What is there in Lower Egypt to cause a change in phenotpye? Asiatics have always been in the area boy!
By “closer” I meant in a geographic sense, you nitwit!! The actual change in phenotype to closer resembling Asiatics did not happen until late dynastic times! This was shown by past anthropologists who’ve shown Lower Egyptians differ in cranial features from Upper Egyptians only slightly such as higher cranial index and lower nasal index with such features being found in Sub-Sahara. They still differed more radically with Asiatics. Even experts like Sonia Zakrzewski show those Lower Egyptian skulls in Howells data that match closely to Asiatics come from late dynastic times when foreigners overran the Delta! I even cited Barry Kemp who acknowledged that in bodily proportions Delta Egyptians were still identical to southern Egyptians NOT with Asiatics!

quote:
"Sun-dried mud bricks, a building material characteristic of Lower Mesopotamia, were first employed in Upper Egypt during this period. The use of a distinctly Mesopotamian device, the cylinder seal was introduced and traces of writing appeared. Their images bore a marked resemblance to those of the Land of the Twin Rivers. The pear-shaped stone mace-heads found in an earlier context in the Deltic Asiatic communities such as Merimde, replications of Mesopotamian models, appear in the south in the Gerzean period. The use of metal tools was non-existent in Upper Egypt until the latter part of the Gerzean period. A few metal pins and ornaments first appear which may well have been trade goods. Toward the end of the period a few crude, locally made copper tools do appear. The Copper-Stone Age had finally arrived.

During that same time period, the latter half of the fourth millennium before the Common Era, Mesopotamia had crossed into the Bronze Age. The peoples speaking related "Semitic" dialects were spreading out along the Fertile Crescent from the great cities along the crown of the Crescent. They moved south and east to absorb Sumer, situated strategically athwart the area where the Euphrates and the Tigris meld into the Arabian Gulf. Trade with the peoples of another great and early civilization in the Indus Valley of India reached significant proportions. Traders were likewise ranging westward and established karums, trading villages adjoining the cities of Anatolia. The flow of Asiatic traders down the Nile burgeoned. Along the way they paid tribute to the petty princes along the cliff-lined banks for the right of passage.
"


Well into dynastic times

"Meanwhile the second king of the Tenth Dynasty, Wahkare Achthoes III, managed to coexist with the Asiatics on the eastern Delta. Since Thebes was advancing in the south, with his ally Asyut he attacked them at This, capturing them "like a cloudburst;" but he regretted allowing his troops to plunder the sacred tombs. Later the Theban King Inyotef II came back and drove the Heracleopolitans out of the Thinite Nome. After this, peace lasted for several decades as Wahkare reigned nearly half a century.

Sesostris I wasted no time in returning to strengthen his rule, and he extended his territory even farther south in Nubia, where gold was being mined for Egypt. Sesostris continued to mine and build, including towering granite obelisks at the Re-Atum temple at Heliopolis used during his Sed festival. At Karnak the god Amen-Re was honored with large structures. Sesostris himself was regarded as a god, and once again the power of the kings increased. He ruled for thirty-five years after his father's death and brought in his own son, Amenemhet II, as co-regent for his last two years. Amenemhet II and Sesostris II increased Egyptian prosperity by reclaiming land for agriculture in the Faiyum depression with surplus Nile water. More Asiatics immigrated into Egypt to work as servants, and trade was established as far away as Crete and Babylon.

http://www.san.beck.org/EC4-Egypt.html

Northern Egyptians were mixed!

[Eek!] Are you serious?! Your source is Sanderson Beck, a spiritualist from California??!! LMAO [Big Grin] No wonder the writings sounded suspect from the very start. For example, how was it “Mesopotamian” mudbrick suddenly appear in Upper Egypt first before Lower Egypt, despite the Egyptian mudbrick being of totally different material and style from that of Mesopotamia?? Yes, I see Mr. Beck is ‘liberal’ enough to identify the Egyptians as a mixed people but not the Greeks, even though we have more evidence of that in Greece! Oh boy, you are hilarious!



quote:
“Can please cite from your source what exactly is 'Eurasian' about the autosomes??”

Obviously they are identical to those found in Eurasia as opposed to Sub Saharan which they claimed increased in more recent times. Why don't you ask what is Exactly is sub-Saharan about them?

I asked my question about BOTH, since previous studies claiming “Eurasian” genes end up debunk when such genes are found in high frequencies in North Africa as if North Africa is synonymous with Eurasia despite being part of Africa, meanwhile Sub-Saharan genes are segregated on its own even though “Sub-Sahara” is in the same continent as North Africa, namely AFRICA. For example HBS in the Mediterranean was once assumed to be of the Eurasian variety found in India, but analysis revealed it is of the Benin variety in so-called ‘Sub-Sahara’! That is why specifics are important so as to expose the okie-doke scam you and you ilk like to play.

quote:
First of all N1a is not African but Near Eastern and has it's highest frequency in Arabia. Benin HBS orginates in West Africa. I wonder excatly what historical migration would account this ending up in Greece??
Your statement about N1a proves my point. It’s not even known where exactly mt N* originated either in East Africa during the first Out-Of-African expansion or slightly after in Arabia. Either way, N like M both derive from L3 which is certainly African. The fact that Arabia right next to Africa has the highest frequency of N1a along with East Africans having just as much diversity with upstream N1 hardly qualifies it as ‘Eurasian’. By the way, Benin HBS in Greece is dated to the Neolithic, around the same time as Y-chromosomal E-V13.

quote:
About the study, I know that they found high frequencies of pre HV mtDNA which matched Syrian samples. These declined over time.
Yes, HV being carried by the first European so-called Cro-Magnon who still possessed tropical adapted features, while pre-HV meant actual time of Out-Of-African expansion itself. No surprise there.

quote:
A wig? All he needed was a boom box and he would fit into any US inner city in the 1970's
Yes, well he IS black like all indigenous Egyptians who are African. Your silly observation aside.


quote:
”Also it is a known fact that hair does not retain the same form after thousands of years post-mortem especially when affected by embalming chemicals like natron used in Egyptian mummification.”

That's BS and you know it.

"To the Afrocentrists who are spamming this entry with outraged comments along the line of ‘you don’t understand African diversity’, ‘Malcolm X had red hair’, ‘some Africans have Caucasian hair,’ and ‘you’ve never been to Africa’…

The average black American is about 1/5 European, which explains why black Americans occasionally crop up with blue eyes and ginger hair (although Malcolm X only went reddish in summer, not a proper ginger).

The same goes for Caucasian textured hair in Africans. The anthropologists who’ve studied the hair came to the conclusions of mostly Caucasian (Fletcher) to almost half negroid (Eugene Strouhal called it sterotypically mulatto) of the Southern oldest samples, the Badarians. Afrocentrists please note, those Strouhal and Keita studies do not include Northern Egyptians in any way. That Strouhal study is badly misquoted from in the Keita study of Badarian crania: he claimed Strouhal observed the hair to be 80% negroid, but the Strouhal study itself says no such thing, and makes it quite clear that the Southern Egyptians were of mixed ancestry. The Keita study this quote is from even states that the North Egyptian crania are different to the Southern, a fact often ignored once the words ’80% negroid’ are spotted. Also, try reading the other Keita work properly, it places Caucasians all over North Africa from the Oranian paleolithic onwards.

Curiously, these hair studies match the current Egyptian population, nearly half negroid at the South, Caucasian to the North. Coincidence or what?"

First off, Malcom X’s hair was dyed red in a hairstyle known as the conch! This process not only dyed his hair red but relaxed it, effectively damaging it in a painful process which he made known in his auto-biography. I just cited a source showing the alkaline effects of Egyptian embalming fluid, so enough said!


quote:
“Besides, wavy hair and aquiline noses are not unusual for east Africans in Sub-Sahara and even some West Africans for that matter. So are you suggesting those are "caucasian traits" again??”

You know it. [Wink]

Yes. I know it is b.s.!

quote:
“There are indigenous Indians with straight noses, green eyes, and still black skinned. What's your point??”

Really? Post a picture of one.

How about several.

 -

 -

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^ I guess these women are also “Caucasian” to you. There are Australian aborigines with blue eyes, so I guess they are “Caucasian” also! LOL
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by GOMTUU:

Melkior7 alias Garrit level 5 schizo who frequents the Topix forum an spews out his theories founded on nothing

Yes, we can see this. The boy is obviously a disingenuous liar at best and at worst a psychotic distortion junkie! I mean, look at the sources the fool cites in desperation to support his assertions! Instead of citing sources from actual Egyptologists, the fool first cites writings from a Jewish propaganda site and then a spirtualist!! LOL Don't think for a minute I take this boy seriously. He is as much a nutcase as he is a loser, like all trolls here at Egyptsearch. [Embarrassed]
 
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Do you have A-D-D or something?! I just cited a source by Bruce Williams, an actual Egyptologist, who stated that the earliest known settlements in northern Egypt were barely in the delta but were located southwest of it, hence the earliest center of Lower Egyptian culture is the Faiyum A Culture! Even the Merimde culture your source spoke of was located in the western Delta.

Has anyone actually found Neolithic settlements in the eastern Delta? You'd think if there was a mass migration of Asiatics into Egypt around that time, they'd leave behind a lot of settlements in the east, but in all my research I've never encountered reports of such settlements. Unless that simply reflects a lack of archaeological interest in that region, it wouldn't bode too well for the mass Neolithic migration of Asiatics hypothesis.
 
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
^^lol, good writeup, keep on schooling the fool.
PS: what is the Barich citation you reference below:

"The African nature of Merimde culture is confirmed by archaeologists like Barbara E. Barich, whose work in the Sahara has revealed Merimda’s affinities like cylindrical axes and concave arrowheads to be Libyan while other features like burial of dead right in settlements to be Capsian (Tunisia), while positioning of the dead bodies to be Adrar Bous (Algeria). "
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ I found the info from an article on Barich's findings in Libya. It could be from Archaeology and Environment in the Libyan Sahara. But she makes references to neolithic Lower Egyptian cultures in the Delta.
quote:
Originally posted by Truthcentric:

Has anyone actually found Neolithic settlements in the eastern Delta? You'd think if there was a mass migration of Asiatics into Egypt around that time, they'd leave behind a lot of settlements in the east, but in all my research I've never encountered reports of such settlements. Unless that simply reflects a lack of archaeological interest in that region, it wouldn't bode too well for the mass Neolithic migration of Asiatics hypothesis.

The main reason I get from Egyptology is that the Delta's mass silt deposits make archaeology difficult as well as the preservation of any artifacts from neolithic times. However, one would think this alleged influx of Asiatics would make it just south of the delta in the southeastern part of Lower Egypt, yet I have not heard of any such evidence of Asiatic settlements. But regardless, the only evidence we have of Asiatics are certain styled objects and domesticates which were either obtained through trade or adopted.
 
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
I would not be surprised to hear of small groups of Asiatics
whether as traders, mercenaries, slaves, or even herdsmen.
Not surprising given Egyptian trade or military operations
in nearby regions for centuries. A group of small-time
Assyrian merchants for example, importing their wares
on to some small landing point in the Delta would
be nothing special, nor would small-time goat herders
out of Palestine or Libya. It is the MASS influx of outsiders
before the late stages of Egyptian civ that is dubious.
In any event, the main driving forces that made
fundamental Egyptian civ and population are from
the south not the "Middle East."
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Correct. Nobody here is saying that there were no Asiatics present at all in the Delta. We are merely saying there is no evidence to suggest they were present in enough numbers to make any significant impact. Skeletal evidence so far shows the Delta dwellers as African. As for their domesticates both plant and animal being of Asian origin, the fact that no Asiatic terms are used to describe them or their uses meant they were merely adopted by the natives. By the way, I've read a couple of source suggesting the goat may have been introduced from further south in the eastern deserts first before reaching the Delta. As for the pig, it was suggested that wild pigs made their way into the delta on their own and were subsequently captured and farm-raised.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
What, no response from the Malcontent?? Perhaps he's too embarassed by his Sanderson Beck source. LOL [Big Grin]
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
The composition of the ruling elites may be different than the common folk
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ And what the heck are YOU talking about?? [Confused]
 
Posted by LemonBalmParade (Member # 19649) on :
 
Pffft, all this aruging, it's obvious this is what the REAL Ancient Egyptians looked like!

 -

Oh and can't forget about THIS!

 -

 -


I mean how could anyone refute this, it's PURE HARD EVIDENCE.

 -

 -
 -
 -


 -

The resemblence is uncanny!

So knock it off you terrible AFROCENTRISTS and your RADICAL ideas! Sheesh, don't you know, Africans are a primitive form of mankind? How could they create any GREAT civilization? Just a bunch of wild bushman living in tiki huts and eating coconuts, dangling their colt 45's, just robbing everyone of their history, wallets and TV's!

They were a white and middle eastern nation! No blacks present except as SLAVES! Har, har, har, herp, derp!
 
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 
^ LOL!
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ LMAO indeed! [Big Grin]

This person above you has obviously cracked a good joke, either that or she too is mentally deranged.
 
Posted by LemonBalmParade (Member # 19649) on :
 
What!? I never joke, I follow the creed of good ol' George Washington, I cannot tell a lie. Unless the opportunity presents itself for a roaring good jab to make myself and others laugh.;P
 
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

^ I guess these women are also “Caucasian” to you. There are Australian aborigines with blue eyes, so I guess they are “Caucasian” also! LOL [/QB]

Dravidians are Caucasoid-Veddoid, you can find a minority with green or blue eyes because of their Caucasoid genes.

Your claim Australoids have blue eyes is wrong. None do, Australoids have the darkest eyes alongside the Negroid and Mongoloid. However they do have a minority tendency towards blondism.
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LemonBalmParade:
Pffft, all this aruging, it's obvious this is what the REAL Ancient Egyptians looked like!

 -

Oh and can't forget about THIS!

 -

 -


I mean how could anyone refute this, it's PURE HARD EVIDENCE.

 -

 -
 -
 -


The resemblence is uncanny!

So knock it off you terrible AFROCENTRISTS and your RADICAL ideas! Sheesh, don't you know, Africans are a primitive form of mankind? How could they create any GREAT civilization? Just a bunch of wild bushman living in tiki huts and eating coconuts, dangling their colt 45's, just robbing everyone of their history, wallets and TV's!

They were a white and middle eastern nation! No blacks present except as SLAVES! Har, har, har, herp, derp!

Your post is a primary sign of desperation.

 -
 
Posted by GOMTUU (Member # 19606) on :
 
Originally posted by LEMONADEYOURFACE: Africans are a primitive form of mankind? How could they create any GREAT civilization? Just a bunch of wild bushman living in tiki huts and eating coconuts, dangling their colt 45's, just robbing everyone of their history, wallets and TV's!
ANOTHER MEATHEADED idiot, is they are so primitive Africans I am sure they will stay clear out of the filth permeating in the so called civilized world,where people are dying like flies been giving technology that is at the present killing them.
http://mideastposts.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Saudi-Men.jpg. uhnn sure white people getting a sun tan
 
Posted by LemonBalmParade (Member # 19649) on :
 
Lol, I was messing around, it's called sarcasm. I'm simply mirroring the behaviours of the anti-African ding bats on this forum.

Don't take offense to my obvious troll posts toward the Euronuts.
 
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
Originally posted byc assride:
quote:

The source is Cavalli-Sforza's book on the Pygmies entitled 'African pygmies' (Academic Press, 1986).

This work shows that Negroids mutated from an ancestral pygmy population around 9,000 BC in West Africa. So the 'true' Black African today is a recent mutation. Caucasoids and Mongoloids predate them. [Wink] Negroids only migrated into other parts of Africa during the Bantu expansion or slightly earlier. Prior to them, Caucasoids inhabited North Africa and Bushmen (Capoids) to the south who were displaced by the Caucasoids from the Mediterranean around 12,000 BC.

^^A bogus reference.
Why should anyone take your word for it given
past bogus references? Quote where Cavalli-Sforza
says these so-called "negroids" "mutated" from
Pygmies. The burden of proof is on you, since you made
the claim.

While you scurry to cover your tracks with yet
more bogus claims, Cavali Sforza, in his well
known The History and Geography of Human Genes,
1994 Cavalli-Sforza summarizes his 1986 work on
Pygmies and specifically debunks the "Pygmy as ancestor"
theory held by other older writings. QUOTE:


"It remains difficult to pinpoint an ancient place
of origin for the Negroid type which includes all
West, Central and South Africans. Contrary to many
earlier opinions, modern Pygmies and Khosians are
not good candidates for a proto-African population."

--Cavalli Sforza et al, 1994. The history and geography of human genes. 194


SO much for your lying claims of "mutations" from "Pygymy" ancestors.
In short, you lied about Cavalli-Sforza, creating a falsified
claim and a bogus "supporting" reference to a claim that is
nowhere supported in his work. You are once again
exposed as yet another racist, who relies on bogus
"evidence" to advance, dubious and debunked claims.
You are not fooling anyone.

 -
 
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
 
^ ????

The source i have already posted. I've given the book name, author and page numbers.
 
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LemonBalmParade:
Lol, I was messing around, it's called sarcasm. I'm simply mirroring the behaviours of the anti-African ding bats on this forum.

Don't take offense to my obvious troll posts toward the Euronuts.

There is no such thing as eurocentrism. Afronuts call anyone who doesn't believe in afrocentrism as eurocentric - when in actual fact eurocentrism is an 'ism' that never has existed in the sense of Afrocentrism.

You don't get white people trying to claim the whole world in ancient times was white. Afrocentrism however exists because blacks have low self esteem and self-hate so they try and steal the heritage and history of other races...

just take a look at the threads on this forum.

At the moment in the other thread we have afrocentrics claiming the Holy Roman Emperors were blacks, as well as the Indians, Chinese etc. Basically the afrocentric will obsess over any location or history but their own: sub-sahara africa. Blacks hate their own homeland and history so they try to steal others. White people don't, because we have a homeland, history and heritage - Europe.
 
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:


The source i have already posted. I've given the book name, author and page numbers.

^^Can't you stop lying? You're only digging yourself in deeper
and I am preparing to set you up even more. See your
own quote below. You say you provided page number,
but it is nowhere to be seen below for Cavalli-Sforza. Liar.
And why does Cavalii-Sforza himself debunk your
claim re alleged Negro "mutations" from Pygmies?
What's taking you so long in backing up your claim?
COuld it be that you've been caught redhanded in another lie?

Go ahead and lie some more - let me set you up..

quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:
The source is Cavalli-Sforza's book on the Pygmies entitled 'African pygmies' (Academic Press, 1986).

This work shows that Negroids mutated from an ancestral pygmy population around 9,000 BC in West Africa. So the 'true' Black African today is a recent mutation. Caucasoids and Mongoloids predate them. [Wink] Negroids only migrated into other parts of Africa during the Bantu expansion or slightly earlier. Prior to them, Caucasoids inhabited North Africa and Bushmen (Capoids) to the south who were displaced by the Caucasoids from the Mediterranean around 12,000 BC.


^^A bogus reference.
Why should anyone take your word for it given
past bogus references? Quote where Cavalli-Sforza
says these so-called "negroids" "mutated" from
Pygmies. The burden of proof is on you, since you made
the claim.

While you scurry to cover your tracks with yet
more bogus claims, Cavali Sforza, in his well
known The History and Geography of Human Genes,
1994 Cavalli-Sforza summarizes his 1986 work on
Pygmies and specifically debunks the "Pygmy as ancestor"
theory held by other older writings. QUOTE:


"It remains difficult to pinpoint an ancient place
of origin for the Negroid type which includes all
West, Central and South Africans. Contrary to many
earlier opinions, modern Pygmies and Khosians are
not good candidates for a proto-African population."

--Cavalli Sforza et al, 1994. The history and geography of human genes. 194


SO much for your lying claims of "mutations" from "Pygymy" ancestors.
In short, you lied about Cavalli-Sforza, creating a falsified
claim and a bogus "supporting" reference to a claim that is
nowhere supported in his work. You are once again
exposed as yet another racist, who relies on bogus
"evidence" to advance, dubious and debunked claims.
You are not fooling anyone.

 - [/QB][/QUOTE]
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by cassiterides:
There is no such thing as eurocentrism.

One example is the the spurious British Israelism movement as well as Nazism, Eugenics, the Christian Identity movement, the Ku Klux Klan, The Aryan Nations, White Nationalism, Wotanism and other movements
 
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
 
^^^
This guy has the nerve to call Thomas Borophy a quack when his retareded beliefs have been debunked the world over, from his British Israelite B.S to his Caucasian ideology.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ And why you guys argue with such a blatant and idiotic liar is beyond me.
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ And why you guys argue with such a blatant and idiotic liar is beyond me.

that's true but you also over use the term liar.
When people make a legitmate argument and it is not what you agree with you call it lying.

For example

quote:
Originally posted by 'assertides:

vanilla is better than chocolate


quote:
Originally posted by Djhooptie:

that's a lie, stop lying


quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Him jari-

This is a Strawman Fallacy as well as a Red Herring all wrapped in one.

quote:
Originally posted by Djhooptie:

It's not a Strawman fallacy
that's a lie, stop lying


quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Great site. It is material like this which makes me sad we don't have the financing to make a series of films to teach authentic Black/African history.

.

quote:
Originally posted by Djhooptie:

you're not sad
stop lying, liar



 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LemonBalmParade:
Lol, I was messing around, it's called sarcasm. I'm simply mirroring the behaviours of the anti-African ding bats on this forum.

Don't take offense to my obvious troll posts toward the Euronuts.

I had that gut feeling, but it looked awkward. You did a good job after all.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Whatever. [Roll Eyes]
quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass:

that's true but you also over use the term liar.
When people make a legitmate argument and it is not what you agree with you call it lying.

For example

quote:
Originally posted by 'assertides:

vanilla is better than chocolate


quote:
Originally posted by Djhooptie:

that's a lie, stop lying


quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Him jari-

This is a Strawman Fallacy as well as a Red Herring all wrapped in one.

quote:
Originally posted by Djhooptie:

It's not a Strawman fallacy
that's a lie, stop lying


quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Great site. It is material like this which makes me sad we don't have the financing to make a series of films to teach authentic Black/African history.

.

quote:
Originally posted by Djhooptie:

you're not sad
stop lying, liar



Of course this entire posting of yours is one big ridiculous lie, but you know this you lyinass worm. [Wink]
 
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by assumptions prove assumptions:
We know these negroes ( flat noses and big lips ) sub Sahara Africans are jealous of other peoples history. Sorry negroes YOU WERE NOT ORIGINAL EGYPTIANS!

Africa is not one race of people! Just like Indians in Asia doesn't mean they are related to Chinese people, idiots! GET A CLUE!

North Africa is very close to the Middle East and southern Europe and ancient Egyptian art and sculptures show Eurasian looking peoples in a majority of it. Some Nubians, negroes  did immigrate to Egypt from south or brought as a slaves for a while, so don't bother posting pictures of them, since I've seen them already and don't deny it. But vast majority of ancient Egyptians show Eurasian rulers and peoples. NUBIANS in the south were NOT original Egyptians! STOP THE LIES!

Ethiopians, iretirians ( genetically not  negroes their blood mixed with Arabs  ) ruled for a short time by way of invasion, no different from Greeks ruling for a short time by way of invasion. But they're BOTH not TRUE, ORIGINAL Egyptians!

Eurasian peoples <-> Middle Easterners <-> are the TRUE, ORIGINAL EGYPTIANS!

Stop your jealous attempt to steal their history! STOP IT! 

You Afronazi morons!

lol! [Razz] please stop projecting. Don't forget the original Eurasiatics and Near Easterners except in the Levant were a lot more Negroid than the ancient Egyptians - dimwit.

 -
No - you stop it! U seemed to have missed the fact the party's just begun for Negroes. lol!

 -
Next thing you'll be telling us we're jealous of the white man's cornrows on the Olmecs. [Big Grin]

BTW - No such thing as a Negro.
 
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Troll Patroll

These girls are Nubians. 'Children in a Nubian Village'

http://www.sorth.dk/p/20050219sml/index.html

 -
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Thanks for the correction.

So how about these?

 -

 -

 -
 
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Southern Egyptians, as fas as I can tell.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ What about these guys?

 -

 -

 -

 -

 -

 -
 
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
 
What is your point??

quote:
Originally posted by rahotep101:
Troll Patroll

These girls are Nubians. 'Children in a Nubian Village'

http://www.sorth.dk/p/20050219sml/index.html

 -


 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
Bump
 


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