^ The first domestication of cattle as well as pottery, wild millet, and legumes shown on the graph is associated with the Khartoum Mesolithic culture.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
Good find.
So does first domestication mean first in Africa? First in the world?
Anymore info on the Bunat El Ansam Megalith builders?
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ The first domestication of cattle as well as pottery, wild millet, and legumes shown on the graph is associated with the Khartoum Mesolithic culture.
Indeed, yet AE proto-civ peopling gets touted as Saharan coming from the west and the idea of Sudan coming from the south seems forgotten.
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ The first domestication of cattle as well as pottery, wild millet, and legumes shown on the graph is associated with the Khartoum Mesolithic culture.
Indeed, yet AE proto-civ peopling gets touted as Saharan coming from the west and the idea of Sudan coming from the south seems forgotten.
People coming from the Western Desert also settled in the South then moved up North following the Nile.
Also, before the Green Sahara period they previously almost all had a common origin in Eastern Africa as we can see genetically (E-P2, L3eikx, etc) and linguistically (homeland of all African language family).
Basil Davidson: "[...]The Archaeological evidence combines to show that the main line of incoming migrations were from the Southwest and the West, in other words, from the African community of the Sahara." http://youtu.be/jTr6JnKN3qo Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Okay?? My point was that the cultural event alluded to in your graph was specific to the Khartoum Mesolithic.
We all know there was population flow into the Nile Valley from the West which especially took place during the desertification. And of course we all know about pan-African clades like PN-2 but If I didn't know any better I'd say you have some sort of inferiority complex in regards to your West African heritage and are desperate to attach and or emphasize the "west" part of Africa in regards to Egypt.
I now see the source of your neurosis and all I gotta say is that this desperation is rather pathetic.
Like Swenet says Egypt as well as Sudan are (black) African regardless and don't need some close identification or even closer relation than is evident to West Africa to accept this. Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
^^^That's ridiculous. I don't believe modern West African (or modern East African for that matter) are direct descendants of Ancient Egyptians.
I'm just saying they share common ancestors for the most part of their genome well after the OOA migrations of non-African people (but before the foundation of the AE state). Aka, Ancient Egyptians were genetically, historically, culturally, archaeologically, linguistically, closer to almost ALL African populations than to European or West Asian.
For example, they ALL share a common origin in Eastern Africa, as well as being part of the Green Sahara culture which lasted more than 3000 years.
This is what aDNA results shows as well archaeological studies.
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
Taken from:Reconstructing Ancient Kinship in Africa by Christopher Ehret (From Early Human Kinship, Chap 12)
Strikingly, the most probably origin areas of each of the African families lay in regions within or adjacent to the Horn of Africa.
Notice:**ALL** the African language families.
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
I was talking to DJ. I'd rather not talk to you unless you will entertain civil discussion, but ...
Since the desert fluctuated throughout time the question I ask myself is where did the so-called Saharo-Sudanic cultures come from and my answer was found to be Sudan and Early Khartoum misnamed Khartoum Mesolithic. So backflow from the Sahara was largely returning Sudanis anyway.
Anyway that's my take for what it's worth.
When the Holocene Sahara was opened to peopling different folk streamed in from all angles and where they intermingled new ethnies were born.
When the current Saharan Arid Maximum set in the different folks and the new ethnies moved out for the most part. Those who were Nile bound left both the central&southern Eastern Sahara and the northern Eastern Sahara which is one reason why Lower Nile Valley cultures markedly varied from the south & center versus the north (Fayum and northward).
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ The first domestication of cattle as well as pottery, wild millet, and legumes shown on the graph is associated with the Khartoum Mesolithic culture.
Indeed, yet AE proto-civ peopling gets touted as Saharan coming from the west and the idea of Sudan coming from the south seems forgotten.
People coming from the Western Desert also settled in the South then moved up North following the Nile.
Also, before the Green Sahara period they previously almost all had a common origin in Eastern Africa as we can see genetically (E-P2, L3eikx, etc) and linguistically (homeland of all African language family).
Basil Davidson: "[...]The Archaeological evidence combines to show that the main line of incoming migrations were from the Southwest and the West, in other words, from the African community of the Sahara." http://youtu.be/jTr6JnKN3qo
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
the nilotes of the nabta playa were kalenjin,the dotted wavy line pottery belongs to the kalenjin people and it is known in archeology as NDERIT WARE.The archeological site NAMORATUNGA was also put up by kalenjin migrating from ethiopia to kenya.The kalenjin migrated from TTO(thebes/thonis) which is in MISIRI(egypt)and settled in KOTAB BURGEI(khartoum),they then followed the blue nile into ethiopia and settled between modern ethiopia and eastern sudan,they then migrated south together with turkana people into kenya and uganda.
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
^^The earliest pottery in Africa have been found in Ounjougou in Southern Mali. From there it then spread to the central and Eastern Sahara.
The wavy line pottery is widespread from about the Atlantic coast to the Nile in the Green Sahara period. So it's more likely that various set of people and ethnic groups produced and used such pottery.
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
quote: Djehuti Member # 6698 - posted 27 August, 2014 02:38 PM ^ The first domestication of cattle as well as pottery, wild millet, and legumes shown on the graph is associated with the Khartoum Mesolithic culture.
the kalenjin were responsible for unifying egypt for MENES aka NERMER was a kalenjin,the kalenjin ruled mostly the 3rd,18th and 26th dynasty of egypt because most rulers of these dynaties had kalenjin names,also the culture of these dynasties were influenced by the kalenjin.
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
Narmer, 1st King of Ancient Egypt, the Great Unifier.
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
quote: Amun-Ra The Ultimate Member Member # 20039
Rate Member Icon 1 posted 09 September, 2014 09:16 AM Profile for Amun-Ra The Ultimate Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote ^^The earliest pottery in Africa have been found in Ounjougou in Southern Mali. From there it then spread to the central and Eastern Sahara.
i am not talking about the oldest pottery,i am talking about specifically the dotted wavy line pottery(nderit ware) associated with nilotic khartoum mesolithic,namoratunga and nabta playa Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
i am talking about this nermer holding a mace
MACE AND KNOBKIERRIE IS A KALENJIN SYMBOL OF POWER kALENJIN PRESIDENT MOI
KING TUT MACE EGYPTIAN PIGTAIL/PONYTAIL [URL=Full text of "The Nandi, their language and folk-lore" archive.org/stream/.../cu31924029888777_djvu.tx]web pageNANDI TRIBE[/URL] The nandi are a subtribe of kalenjin
quote: 16) 30 Nandi warrior, showing cicatrices raised on shoulder and scars burnt on ...... grow long and plait cloth or wool into it to give them a good pigtail behind
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA:
quote: Amun-Ra The Ultimate Member Member # 20039
Rate Member Icon 1 posted 09 September, 2014 09:16 AM Profile for Amun-Ra The Ultimate Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote ^^The earliest pottery in Africa have been found in Ounjougou in Southern Mali. From there it then spread to the central and Eastern Sahara.
i am not talking about the oldest pottery,i am talking about specifically the dotted wavy line pottery(nderit ware) associated with nilotic khartoum mesolithic,namoratunga and nabta playa
That's what I'm talking about too. Wavy-line pottery can be seen all across the then Green Sahara from the Atlantic coast to the Nile Valley, for many millennia, so it probably crossed ethnic and lineage lines. Also not all Nilotic people are Kalenjin, Nilotic people are also composed of various set of people.
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
quote:That's what I'm talking about too. Wavy-line pottery can be seen all across the then Green Sahara from the Atlantic coast to the Nile Valley, for many millennia, so it probably crossed ethnic and lineage lines. Also not all Nilotic people are Kalenjin, Nilotic people are also composed of various set of people.
lol,I KNOW,i happen to comer from two nilotic heritage,my father is maasai,my mother a kipsigis(kalenjin),i have relatives married to LUOS.i am a kenyan,you can't teach me anything about nilotes,i speak their language and live among them. EGYPTIAN SATET CROWN It is basically a painted calabash gourd KALENJIN SOTET MILK GOURD [URL=Antique African Unique Kalenjin Milk Gourd Sotet | eBay www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-African...Kalenjin...Sotet-/220782892377]web page[/URL]
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
[b]the kalenjin were responsible for unifying egypt for MENES aka NERMER was a kalenjin,the kalenjin ruled mostly the 3rd,18th and 26th dynasty of egypt because most rulers of these dynaties had kalenjin names,also the culture of these dynasties were influenced by the kalenjin.
^^Rather dubious. Do you have any stronger scholarly sources to proffer,as your evidentiary basis? Today's Kalenjin are a Nilotic ethnic group inhabiting the Rift Valley Province in Kenya. On what basis o you claim they are identical to the Nabta Playa people in Egypt circa 9000-7000BC? Do you have data on contemporaneous Kalenjin material culture at that time frame as compared to Nabta data?
And whence this mystical certainty that they were unifiers of Egypt, as well as assorted dynastic rulers? Do you have any credible data to proffer as to this?
The links you posted so far offer little support of your assertions. The tooth extraction page notes some commonalities int he Nile Basin but says little solid about any Nabta or dynastic tie in. You post a COURSE OUTLINE of a college course on the Turkana as another link, but that is a course outline not data. You next proffer a newsletter with some guy speculating on the East African Marakwet's irrigation canals and how they look like Egyptian irrigation canals. All well and good but it is not credible data, only a guy speculating.
You link to the book From Hunters to Farmers: The Causes and Consequences by John Desmond Clark, Steven A. Brandt - 1984. OK, but how does this help your case? ALl we have is a book title. Where is the data?
YOur wavy line pottery is found in a wide arc, as far west as Mali. This shows some cultural commonality across a wide African zone, as indeed other scholars have noted, but How SPECIFICALLY does this support your Kalenjin claim that they were identical to Nabta or that they were founders and rulers of Egypt?
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
LEDAMA says: EGYPTIAN SATET CROWN It is basically a painted calabash gourd KALENJIN SOTET MILK GOURD
^^All you have here is a vague similarity involving pointy calabashes. How SPECIFICALLY does this support your claim that the Kalenjin are the same as the Nabta people, or that they founded dynastic Egypt or were rulers of various dynasties? At ES/ESR folks usually ask about supporting data. Just cuz a "soul brotha" posts it, doesn't mean a free pass.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
He is correct about the Kalenjiin. And for the record, the Kalenjiin live in Sudan, Uganda, Kenya and Ethiopia. Much has been written about them and their ancestral lineage coming from Tto (Ddw) in Egypt. However, a linguistic analysis shows that they more than likely were a branch of the original Coptic speakers. They, however, were not a part of the founding language speakers from which Middle Egyptian derived. Coptic and M-E are two separate, but related languages.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
OK, but it would be nice of he puts some scholarly detail in the table, specifically about the Kalenjin. Did they found the Dynasties or are responsible for unification? Did they rule the dynasties listed above? Says who? By what evidence?
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
quote: OK, but it would be nice of he puts some scholarly detail in the table, specifically about the Kalenjin. Did they found the Dynasties or are responsible for unification? Did they rule the dynasties listed above? Says who? By what evidence?
quote:Did they rule the dynasties listed above? Says who?
SAY'S I i will quote mostly sources from here;WILL THESE HELP?
quote:Author Topic: UNCOVERING THE BLACK AFRICAN TRIBES IN ANCIENT EGYPT THROUGH LINGUISTICS LEDAMA Member Member # 21677
Rate Member Icon 1 posted 24 July, 2014 08:03 AM Profile for LEDAMA Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote I am a researcher of true African history. Basically there were three dorminant populations in ancient Kemet based on linguistics&archeology;
A)PROTO-YORUBA{descendants of ancient Badarians/Twa pygmies/Mizraim (hebrew),misiri(nilotic&bantu),misr (arabic),musuri(persian)}. These in dynastic period were called RETH/RETEHU.Their main deity was BES and all egyptian water deities.modern yoruba water deities are all egyptian.In egypt, proto-yoruba was mainly written in HIERATIC.Their capital was Memphis.In egypt's caste systems,this group produced the least number of egyptian pharaohs,but the bulk of the priestly caste,blacksmiths,craftsmen,administraters came from this group.
B)PROTO-KALENJIN{descendants of ancient Naqadans}. These in dynastic period were called rm/RHEM/rmT/REMETCH(mdw-neter) or RAAMAH(hebrew),they were responsible for unification of upper and lower egypt,which occured during the reign of proto-kalenjin pharaoh Menes.Their main deity was ASIIS(isis).In egypt proto-kalenjin was written in HEIROGLYPHIC.Their capital was mainly THEBES(waset) &NEKHEN.This group made up the bulk of millitary caste,some married into the priestly upper caste,changed the name of pygmy deity BES to PTAH(proto-kalenjin god of beginning).The blood of martriachy uniting lower&upper egypt came from these group,so most ancient egyptian 'Queen mothers' came from these group,and many pharaohs(18th dynasty and 26thdynasty). All the Wasetian pharaohs were Proto-kalenjin except those hyksos kings that ruled from waset,refused to marry into the egyptian martriachy order MAAT,thats why hyksos were forced out of egypt by Amasis,they didn't assimilate,except ta-meru,ta-seti and ta-netjer.the rest were forced out, triggering first bantu migration to kush and west africa.
C)PROTO-BANTU(heqa kasewet/hyksos) Those that assimilated into egyptian martriachal order MAAT include Ta-meru(she of ameru),Ta-seti(she-of seti).Their capital was mostly ASWAN/SYENE/SWENET & AMARNA (Akhetaten). Their main deities (i)SETH for hyksos & Ta-seti, (ii)Apep &Horus for Ta-meru,these groups produced most of egyptian pharaohs.Proto-bantus were joined into the caste of cultivaters/agriculturalist.This was considered a higher caste than that of cattle keepers but lower than that millitary caste. 1).Pharaoh 2)priests&royal family 3)millitary 4)scribes 5)cultivaters/Farmers 6)cattle keepers 7)blacksmiths 8)hired servants 9)slaves.
Proto-bantu was mostly written in DEMOTIC,which later evolved into MEROITIC. Coptic derived mostly from heiro-glyphic & greek.
LIBYAN TRIBES; 1)TA-DJENU or TA-HENU=she-of Henu/Djenu.These tribes today are Lebou/Libu,Wolof,fulani,woodabe. 2)TA-MAHU=She-of MAHU.These today are mostly TA-MAZIGT or todays Tuareg berbers & some Marakesh berbers.The other berbers are mostly descendants of southern european slaves of moor berbers/tuareg. 3)MESHWESH=Dinka & Nuer tribes,also Shilluk.
FAMOUS KALENJIN ANCIENT EGYPTIAN PHARAOHS: The ancient egyptian Pharaohs,weren't all known by their real names.Most of them were called by their INITIATION NAMES.Here is some of the list of famous egyptian pharaohs whose names are Proto-Kalenjin in origin;
1)Pharaoh TUTANKHAMUN=TUTEN-KHA-AMUN/TUTEN-KA-AMUN/AMON. His name in kalenjin means 'little house of amun/amoni(chebo-namuni),or TATANEN-KHA-AMUN/TATANEN-KA-AMUN which means 'unshaken/firm house of amun/amoni'. 2)Pharaoh AKHENATEN=AKHEN-ATEN/AKEN-ATEN/ANGEEN-ATEN means 'i know/recognise Aten/Iten'. 3)Pharaoh AMENHOTEP the initial name of pharaoh Akhenaten before he changed it=AMENE-HOTEP/AMENE-KHOTEP/AMENE-KOTEP which in kalenjin is cursive meaning 'cursed forever'.I guess Akhenaten didn't like this name and so he changed it. 4)Pharaoh AMENEMHAT=AMENE-MAAT.His name in kalenjin is cursive meaning 'cursed seed/family lineage/martriachal order' or 'cursed fire'.On the other hand AMENEMHET in kalenjin means 'cursed place'. 5)Pharaoh KHASEKHEMWY=KHASE-KHEMWAI/KASE-KEMWAI, which in kalenjin means 'he hears what i tell him/he hears all i say/he overheard me'. 6)Pharaoh AMASIS=AM-ASIIS which in kalenjin means 'eat with asiis/eaten by asiis/eat asiis' or CHAM-ASIIS/CHAME-ASIIS which means 'loves asiis/loved by asiis'. 7)Pharaoh PSAMIS=PSAMIS/KIPSAMIS both in kalenjin means "Bad" Others;CHEPHREN=CHEBEREN,CHEOPS,PSAMT EK e t.c. Also let me add some of the Ancient egyptian queens with Proto-kalenjin names e.g Queen HATSHEPSUT=JEPSUT/CHEPSUT,Queen TIYE=TIE 'lady'. Before spread of christianity,the kalenjin were poly-theist just like ancient egyptians.
ANCIENT EGYPTIAN DEITIES SIMILAR TO KALENJIN DEITIES Ancient egyptian deities=Kalenjin deities 1)ISIS/AST(egyptian sun goddess) =ASIS/ASEETA/ASISTA(kalenjin sun goddess) 2)PTAH(god of beginning)=PTA (beginning),KIPTAIYAT(he from beginning,modern kalenjin name for God/Jesus). 3)APIS(egyptian calf deity)=APESO (kalenjin deity). 4)NTRR/NETER/NETERU=NETORORO in kalenjin means 'exalted one'(kalenjin god tororot,which is Tororo hills uganda).NETER also means 'variety' in kalenjin. 5)MAAT(egyptian goddess of justice/order of matriachy)=MAAT(fire,family lineage/order of martriachy). 6)AMUN/AMON=AMONI(chebo-amoni/chebo-namuni)kalenjin deity.AMUN=because,AMUNE=greetings 'how are you'. 7)RA(sun god/time)=RA(today/daytime/at sun rise) 8)AMUN-RA(unity of gods)=AMUN-RA (because today),AMUNE-RA(greetings 'how are you today'. 9)MUT=MUT(number 5,cut open). 10)DJET(sacred bird/deity)=DJET(white greyish bird of prey,either white eagle/hawk). 11)SETH/SET/SST/SESAT/SESHAT (egyptian dog deity)=SESET/SESEET(dog in kalenjin) 12)SOBEK(egyptian crocodile deity) =SOBEK (Alive/name of a place/god/people in ancient egypt),the kalenjin call people of the Kisii tribe KA-SOBEK which means 'house of sobek'.
KALENJIN-ANCIENT EGYPTIAN WORDS 1)WAPWAWET(place)-WAPWAWET (river bank plants with yellow flowers). 2)SATET(deity/calabash-shaped crown/gourd for drinking magic portion)-SOTET(kalenjin milk gourd) 3)SOBEKHOTEP(Sobek is satisfied)-SOBEK-KHOTEP(live forever/reign forever). 4)PAKHET(cat)-PAKHET(cat) 5)MRWT(sacred bird)-MEREWET(sacred bird) 6)MEDJAY/MEDJOI(warriors/soldiers)-MEDJET/MENJET/MENJO(dwelling place of warriors during initiation) 7)CHUMYOT(iron)-CHUMYOT(iron) e.t.c Also check out how ancient egyptians called other tribes and how the kalenjin also call other ethnicities; TA=Proto-kalenjin feminine prefix for denoting tribes.e.g TA-CHONI=she-left behind.DATOGA/TA-TTO-KHA=she-from Tto. Same principle could be used to identify ethnicities in ancient egypt;
1)TA-MAHU libyans(tuareg)=She-of Mahu(place/name of person) 2)TA-HENU/TA-DJENU libyans(fulani/woodabe)=She-of Henu/She-of Djenu. 3)TA-SETI nubians(kerma bantus ancestors of baswezi,shona,zulu)=She-of Seti/seth(egyptian dog deity) 4)TA-NETJER (Serer,wolof,yoruba,igbo,akan,ashanti) =She-from Niger(river niger) 5)TA-SHEMU(Jews)=She-of SHEM(son of noah) 6)TA-NEHISI(egyptianised nubians) =She-of NEHESU(nuba/karamajong). 7)TA-MERU(egyptianised Amorites) =she-of AMERU(Amorites,Ameru tribe of kenya)
KALENJIN-ENGLISH/GREEK WORDS. 1)Ta-parpariet(papyrus plant)=papyrus/paper 2)Motiriot(witness)=Martyr(witness) 3)Para-o(great/vast house,ruler/ leader)=pharaoh(english),Prr-o(egyptian) 3)Emet-ne para(great/vast kingdom)=Empire 4)Tamos(container)=Thermos(container) 5)Para-diso(vast land of plentiousness/vast land of pleasure)=Paradise .....ledama...
KALENJIN-GERMANIC WORDS. German language shares alot with Kalenjin though Kalenjin shares substantially with English and Greek.. 1.the word GERING means small amount in German NGERING in kale meaning the same. 2.MAL (from malen) means a form of decoration in both languages.. in German with paints in Kalenjin with mud/soil. 3.MÖCHTE German/ MÖCHE kale meaning in both would like... 4. NAHM( past tense of nehmen)German meaning take, NAHM/NEHMU Kale handle or take... the German word kühl is Kuul in Kalenjin meaning cool. However i have chanced upon hundreds of Kalenjin words in English/Greek language which Scots and Gypsy took to Europe in the BC when Pharoahs were ruling Europe. we see some of them: technology--------------from tech, architecture........... from Kalenjin woor- or o techkseet( ie great building), embassy-----------------Em-bassang-- foreign nations, embargo----------the act of gagging a nation-------Em bar-koot-- killing a nation, empire---------emeet para, Emirate----------emeet ratat-----meaning a united country. Chemistry.....either from Chemiss which was a location in Egypt or Khemet-Emeet(country) leadership-----------laitor. Politics-------------polotet. etc We also share the name for deity with our Congolese brothers. Congolese: "Nkolo Nzambe" (Lord God) Kalenjin "Chebo Nkolo" (supreme deity) .In his Book, Egypt:The light of the World,Gerald Massey writes that the ancient Egyptians once colonized the British Isles, Spain and all the countries in the Iberia penisular.The Ancient Egyptians were Africoid people of proto- Kalenjin origin who jumpstarted European civilization by virtue of having founded Greeks assited by the Goddess of the Nile-the Graikos. That EMEET, or KEMEET meaning country in Old Egyptian,Boharic and Sahidic and Kalenjin spawned many Eglish and Teutonic words in common use is no doubt! Emeet spawned terms like Embassy, empire, emporor, emirates and ambassador,embargo, among others. Empire means the vast country...Emeet-para while Porori is Kalenjin/Kikuyu word meaning Nation or Country.Empire means emet ab poror—the country or bucolic people!!the word embargo which is embargot in Swedish is EMBARGOT as well in Kalenjin and it means to kill a country economically, Embassy, Ambassador,Empire,Embargo,EMIRATE(EM- RATAT). EMBASSY is Kalenjin for the foreign country ie Em-bo-sang, emeet ab ssang or simply EMBASSANG-foreign country and that AMBASSADOR means the same thing.Embargo means emeet-bar- go meaning to struggle a conutry!! In other languages, they are :Ambassadřr(Danish),Spanish(Embajada, imperio,embargo,embajador),Polish(Ambasada usa, imperium,embarga,ambasador),Romania (Ambasada sua, imperiu, embargoului, ambasadorul)Dutch(Ambassade, empire,embargo,ambassador)French (Ambassade, empire,embargo, l'ambassadeur),Portuguese(Embassy, empire,embargo,embaixador),Spanish (Embajada, imperio, embajador, embargo),Bulgarian(ембарго,)Sweden (Ambassaden, ambassadör, embargo, empire),Romania(Ambasada sua, ambasadorul,imperiu,embargoului,)Swedish (Ambassad och ambassadör,empire,embargot). The English word EMIRATE has its origin in Boharic/Kalenjin and it means a unted country ie EM-RATAT or emet ratat!EMERATAT later spawned Emirate(Romania),Emiraten (Swedish),Emiratem(Polish),Emiraat (Dutch),Emirat(French),Emirato(Portuguese and Italian),Emirate(Hellenic Greece/Finnish),Emirat (German/Norweigian),etc. IMPIRIAL....... Imperiální It should mean to colonise a country and is still a an African name. It spawned Czech (Imperiální),French(Systčme impérial) and impirial in all other Romanic and Germanic langauges. KEMEET meaning country went all the way to English/Teutonic languages where we get CHEMISTRY corrrectly pronounced KEMISTRY.some say Chemistry is derived from Chemiss- the Kalenjin abode when in Egypt. chemistry, chemicals, chemically are respectively in Italian (Chimica, prodotti chimici, chimica,)Germany(Chemie, Chemikalien, chemisch),Danish(Kemi, kemi, kemisk),Polish(Chemia, chemiczne, chemicznie),French(La chimie, des produits chimiques, aux produits chimiques),Dutch (Chemie, chemie, chemisch) and so on and on. Chemist- the person dispensing chemicals becomes Chemikar(Germany),Chemiste (French),Chimist(Romania),Chemika (Lithuania),Kjemikar(Norweigian),Kimia(Malay – a language spoken in Malaysia),Kemik (Slovenian) etc.There are dozens of worlds spawned by KEMET including Khmre language of Cambodia,Vietman and lowlands of Laos, Thailand and parts of Indonesia.! BIOLOGY-- simply meaning the study of the building blocks of life. We say water is life and with it are the building blocks of the same. This term or branch of knowledge is made to look mysterious or European while in the real sence, you will find it be of Africoid origin. In Luo langauge Water is Bia, in Somali it is Biyo, in Kalenjin it is Bei,in Estonian it is Vee, hence we may say Biyologogy in Somali, Beiology in Kalenjin or Bialogy in Luo!!!the Greeks who are the culprits here learned this branc of knowledge from the people of KEMET wo surprisingly founded GREECE! POLITICS: For long it was upheld that the Europeans invented the game of politics while the fact is that it is the Africans from the Nile valley who invented the game of politics. The Europeans will never tell you the verb of the word politics but a Kalenjin will with ease. Politics is derived from the Kalenjin word “pol” meaning to argue over something, to make noise which quinetssialy is what our politicians should do.pol gave the Kalenjin Polotet—meaning politics!! Polotet has an array of ric derivatives seen on other European languages worldwide. The English word polemics is one of them. In other languages ,Politics, Politician,polemics are:Czech(politika, politika, nezbytné?,)Dutch: Politiek, politici, polemiek,French(La politique, politicien, ŕ la polémique,),German(Politik, Politiker, Polemik,),Danish(Politik, politiker, polemik,)Polish(Polityka, polityka, polemiki,),Afrikaan(Politiken for Politics),Swedish(Politik, politiker, polemik,),Italian(Politica, politici, polemiche),Portuguese(Política, político, polémicas,) and so on and on........ TECHOLOGY...........................TECH (Build). .........architecture The term technology was never a European term.It is derived from the Kalenjin word tech meaning to build, invent, etc. There is no English verb which gave us technology but in Kalenjin it is tech! Tech of Kalenjin gave us techseet meaning the act of building in this Pharaonic language. Tech was later to spawn technology in English and its others rich derivatives. Terms like technology,technician, technical, polytechnic, architecture,are in Portuguese (Tecnologia,técnico, técnico, escola politécnica, arquitetura,),FRENCH(La technologie,technicien, technique, Ecole polytechnique, architecture,)GERMAN(Technik, Techniker, technische, technischen Hochschule, Architektur,) DANISH(Teknologi,tekniker, tekniske, polyteknisk lćreanstalt, arkitektur,)ROMANIA (Tehnologii,tehnician, tehnice, politehnica, arhitectura,) Italian(Tecnologia, tecnico, tecnici, politecnico, architettura,DUTCH (Technologie,monteur, technische en beroepsscholen, architectuur,POLISH (Technologia, technika, technicznej, politechniki, architektura,),Portuguese (Tecnologia,técnico, técnico, escola politécnica, arquitetura,SPANISH(Tecnología, técnico, técnico, universidad politécnica, arquitectura,) na zingine.ect. this clear show its source in the NILE VALLEY.teknikada in Somali langauge! Architecture means the act of extraordinay building, which in Kalenjin is woor or ar,or [ or]O meaning Big,Extraordinary, unique etc and tech meaning build, hence architecture means woor-techset ie extraodinary masonry embodied in a building.!! Architecture or WOORTEKSET.... spawned as many terms in other languages as shown above!! TOPOGRAPHY, The study of the land surface area of a place is a term that the white people coined from the Kalenjinword Topot or tepot or Thebes in Kagypotai meaning how the land “sits” for lack of a better term in my langauge. Topot means kukaa au vile nchi inakaa. Topograpgy in other langauges URENO/Italian/Polish/Danish (Topografia(e))german(Topographie,)Sweden (Topografi),etc. Keith Steel, writes in When Egpyt Ruled The East that ancient people of the ancient Nile were a the super power people of old and supported futher by the Gerald Massey, in his other best selling, Egyptian Deities in the British Isles. Did you know that the Arabic Allah is derived from Kalenjin Illat-the God of Justice who punishes wrong doers with lightening which is Illeet?Ileet which is different from Illat means the one that coins itselft- iletak!!! It is also Illaye in Somali language and gave us Elohim- Illat and Yim or Him(Heaven) and confluences with Chebohim or Cheboyim in Northern Kalenjin. Baal,the deity of Phoenicians meaning God of rains and clouds is Bool,pool,Poolda in Kalenjin meaning clouds? Bool also spawned Bella, Apollo, Bellona, Poolo, etc in Eurasian a clear testimony of Kalenjin presence in those far flung regions. The Colchians of Russia and Gerogian who originated in Egpyt call their God Asa which is Asis, Isis or Aset among the Barabaeek people of Northern Tanzania. ....weldon oriop kirui... [/QUOTE]
quote: mena7 Avatar Image Member Member # 20555
Rate Member Icon 1 posted 24 July, 2014 09:00 PM Profile for mena7 Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Moustafa Gadalla article on the Kalenjin in Egypt.
The Kalenjins of Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania had the role of defending Egypt,up to the time of Herodotus. When Herodotus visited Egypt during the 5th century BCE, he encountered a sub-nation of Egypt known as Sebenitus. Until the 40s, all Kalenjin were known by fourth names namely Sebei, Sabaot, Miot and Midian. Scholars from the community coined the word, Kalenjin, meaning I tell you to unite all the sub-nations of the tribe. Sebei and Sabaot now live around Mt. Elgon in Western Kenya and Eastern Uganda. It is possible that Herodotus misspelled the word, Sebenitus, which should have been either Sebei or Sabaot. Even the Bible confirms the presence of the Sebei (Kalenjin). Job 1:5 says "...and the Sabeans fell upon and took them away." Ezekiel also wrote about the Kalenjins (Sabeans), a sub-tribe of Ancient Egyptians. ze:23:42 says, "..and a voice of multitude being at ease was with her, and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness which put bracelets upon their hands and beautiful crowns upon their heads."
When Herodotus asked the Sebenitus people about where their aboriginal home was, they told him is/was a place called Nttr-the holy land of the God in the south. With the Benefit of Kalenjin language, we can learn that Ntrr was actually Tororo Hills in Eastern Uganda. Tororo means the exalted one, the high hill or even God. Hence Ntrr should be netoror-the exalted one!
According to their own accounts, the Kalenjin believe that their ancestors aboriginal home was here in Kenya at a place called Tororo Hills in Eastern Uganda. From here they migrated to Misiri or Egypt, where they stayed for thousands of years, and then migrated back again to Kenya. Some remained in Egypt. Others are in Ethiopia, Sudan, Eritrea and many other places around the world. However not all Old Egyptians (Kalenjin) left for Egypt. The Ogiek or Dorobo who speak Kalenjin do not recall having migrated from elsewhere. They say that they have been living in Kenya since time immemorial.
In 2001, I interviewed some oldmen as to why they left Egypt. They told me that they left Egypt after being attacked by a mysterious people called Kipyayamungeen. They said these people were white. (The term, "white", is a relative term, which means lighter skin color.) They say this was during the reign of Pharaoh Kipcheum. According to Dr Sambu, about 250,000 warriors left Egypt for East Africa as a result of this invasion. This event coincides with the first Persian invasion of Egypt, which occurred about 525 BCE.
Because the Kalenjin tongue is basically a dialect of the Egyptian language, many Egyptian words and names are recognizable by the Kalenjin peoples, such as: 1.For thousands of years, Egypt was known to the entire ancient world as Kagypta, meaning the sanctuary of Pta. Pta, now known as Kiptaiyat in modern Kalenjin language, was the deity of Memphis. When the Greeks came to Egypt about 2500 years ago, they could not pronounce the word Kagypta. Instead, they pronounced it as Aigyptos or Aegyptus. They also referred to people of Egypt as Kiptaios (see the word Kiptaiyaat above!). 2.The word, kmt, which the Egyptians referred to as their country, is also traceable to the Kalenjin tongue. Kemet in Kalenjin means country. Some other Egyptians called their country Khemet, which historians used to coin the word Hamites. 3.Pharaoh in Kalenjin language means a massively built house, a leader or president. In fact, Pharaoh should be written as Parao, from the words Para (meaning big or vast) and ooh or woor, meaning the big one. Parao should mean the leader of the entire nation. I say it should be Parao because the English word Empire is derived from it. Em in Kalenjin and Ancient Egyptian means country, while para or pire means wide, big or vast. Hence, the Europeans coined the word Empire and its derivatives from the word Parao or Pharaoh! The Kalenjin people have produced some of the Egyptian Pharaohs. 4.Pharaoh Amasis in Kalenjin may mean the one loved by God, the one who loves God, the one who eats God or the one who is eaten by God. Am in Kalenjin means eat, while Asista means the sun. There are many other examples.
The Kalenjin say that upon arrival in east Africa, they circumcised their boys in two places. They circumcised their boys near Mt Elgon at a hill called tulwop Kabiniet (ie the hill of Phallus).Around 1500 CE they circumcised their boys again at a hill called Tulwop Monyiseet (ie the hill of the foreskins). It is interesting to note that like their ancestors in Egypt, the Kalenjins gave functionally descriptive names to hills where circumcision rites have been performed. Remember God telling Jushua to circumcise his boys again in the hill of the foreskins (Joshua 5;3) in Gilgal area. Again the Kalenjin say that their ancestors used to circumcise their boys in Gilgil area which is 100 km west of nairobi. Gilgil is a corruption of Gilgal, which is the military base of the Kenyan Army.
Kalenjin Dieties
Like, Old Egyptians, Kalenjin was a monotheistic society. They believe in one God who has so many names. Asis is the deity of the Kalejin. This is Isis. Asis or Aset among the Barabaig of Tanzania was believed to be a woman. Other names we brought from Egypt include Illat-the God of Justice. Some other people later corrupted to Allah or Illay among the Somalis of Kenya and Ethiopia. Chebo-Amoni is another name of our deity which the Greeks corrupted to Amoni. The Kalenjin word osirun means to resurrect, to wake up from sleep or to cross a bridge. Apeso is also the name of our Deity, known as Apis.
The Kalenjin used to refer to themselves as children of Miot or Myoot, known in Ancient Egypt as Ma-at, another deity of Old Egyptians.
Kalenjin and Moses
The Bible tells us that Moses married a lady from Midian people known as Zipporah. I am now convinced that Moses was a Kalenjin since Moso in our language means a child. Moses was said to have been a child rescued somewhere in Egypt. We have songs about Moses in kalnjin. After circumcising our girls, we sing a song called, Ndomo rireet ab Mugaika koto mokimi emoni, ie if it were not for the sea of Musaiga (Moses) we would be dead. The story about Moses crossing the sea with his people is common among many tribes in Kenya and Southern Africa. This confirms that Moses was an Egyptian. Midian is a clan of the Kalenjins of Baringo district of Kenya.
Kalenjin and Sabeans
Sebenitus also refers to the people known as Sabeans. In fact it was the Sabeans of South Arabia who established the first civilization in the Arabian peninsula-thousands of years before the emergence of the Bedouin Arabs. Through the Sabeans (Kalenjin) link, it is not difficult to explain the presence of Old Egyptians from remote antiquity, in the Malayan Peninsula, Indo-China, and the heavy concentration of Old Egyptians in India, the Angkor and Champa in Southeast Asia, the vast populations of the dark-skinned peoples in Southern China as far as Japan's Ainu people.
It can be seen in retrospect that the Kalenjins are Old Egyptians what with more information coming to this site from me.
Kalenjin history should now be rewritten by its free natives (and not by the colonial powers of European academia), and its great past reconciled with that of other Old Egyptians around the world.
WELDON arap KIRUI, NAIROBI, KENYA
quote: LEDAMA Member Member # 21677
Rate Member Icon 1 posted 25 July, 2014 12:01 AM Profile for LEDAMA Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote It depends which part of egypt Igbo,yoruba and Akan was spoken.These languages have the same roots. Igbo,Yoruba,Akan,dogon and mande languages all fall in the category WEST-BENUE CONGO but Yoruba is closest to egyptian hieratic.but they are not BANTU.The first population to settle in N.E africa region were West-benue congo speakers ancestors of most sierra leonians,nigerians,ghanians,cameroonians e.t.c In egypt they were MISIRI(MIZRAIM) or in archeological language Ancient BADARIAN.The badarians were joined by the SOUTH NILOTIC SPEAKERS(NAQADANS),who were responsible for unification of ancient egypt.KUSHITES were WEST-NILOTIC SPEAKERS.BANTUS entered egypt as HYKSOS(KESWET) migrants from Canaan..KESWET in kalenjin means 'abandoned house'.Yes bantus are deacendants of ancient Canaanites who entered egypt escaping the SEMITIC EXPANSION happening in the middle east at that period.Most BANTUS were cast out of egypt by kalenjin pharaoh AMASIS,for desrespecting martriachal order MAAT,by setting their own rulers.Those who were left assimilated as egyptians and settled in Upper egypt(Aswan region(TA-SETI),Meroe&Nekhen(TA-MERU). The bantus cast out of egypt settled in KUSH and mixed with western nilotes.e.g great lakes bantus BU-KUSU(KUSH),BA-GUSSI(KUSH),BA-KISSU(KUSH).The martriachal order MAAT which was the unifying factor of the league that united Libya,egypt and Kush incase of any foreign(non-african) aggresion from the north sea or middle east.MAAT law states that pharaoh could be of any ethnicity but must marry from the egyptian/wasetian martriachy in Thebes and Nekhen.A pharaoh could be bantu or nilotic but must marry a Kalenjin woman as official queen to become pharaoh.Tribes that followed the order of Maat wore Ostrich feathers to show they were part of the defence league/confederation(egypt,libya&kush).That is why ALL SOUTHERN NILOTES,WESTERN NILOTES & SOUTHERN BANTUS wore Ostrich feathers during war or celebrations.
MORE KALENJIN-COPTIC/EGYPTIAN WORDS Kalenjin-egyptian
PARA-O(big/vast house,leader)-PRR-O/PHARAOH(king) ORET(path/way)-ORET(path/way) EMEET/KHEMEET(country)-KEMET(country) KAMET(mother)-KAMET(old woman) POIYOOT(father/elder)-PAIYOOT(father/elder) TEBES(big City)-THEBES(big city) SESET(dog)-SET animal(african dog) PAKHET(cat)-PAKHET(cat) KIMYO/KIMYET(bread)-KIMYO(bread) SOBEK(alive,Abagusi homeland KA-SOBEK)-SOBEK(crocodile deity) KHOTEP(forever)-KHOTEP(forever) SOBEKHOTEP(live forever/reign forever)-SOBEKHOTEP(sobek is satisfied???) MDU-NETER(variety of people in kalenjin) MDU-NETORORO(people of the gods in kalenjin)-MDU-NETER(language of gods in egyptian). METU-NETER(don't mix/don't include variety/don't include foreigners) TETA-NETER(variety of cattle breeds) BA/PA(of)-BA/Pa(of) PA-AMERU(of Ameru tribe of kenya)-PA-AMERU(of amorites) BER BER(uncivilised/ignorant)-BER BER(uncivilised/ignorant. PHILAE-PA-ILLAT,according to kalenjin,ILLAT god of vengence,is also the husband of ASIIS,ILLAT-ALLAT-ALLAH-ILLAY ORET-path or way SOSIOT-palm tree One characteristics of kalenjin and egyptian is the use of feminine prefix (t)
CRANIAL STUDIES ON THE KALENJIN
quote:Almoravid
Rotterdam, Netherlands
#484 Dec 12, 2012
James Harris and Edward Wente conducted an x-ray analysis of the New Kingdom royal mummies with the results published in their book X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980). Included in the work were cephalograms of Pharaohs of the XVII-XX Dynasties and their queens.
Harris and Wente note the prevalence of dental prognathism among Nubians. Often this is combined with malocclusion. Similar incidence can be found in other African peoples. For example, one study found that a sample taken from the Kenya showed 61.3% of Maasai had diastema; 84% of Kikuyu had overbite and 99% had overjet; and 24% of Kalenjin had anterior open bite. (
J. Hassanali, GP Pokhariyal, "Anterior tooth relations in Kenyan Africans, Archives of Oral Biology 38 [Apr 1993] 337-42).
Although these dental traits can often be acquired through habits like thumb-sucking, as noted by Harris and Wente, the high frequency in the royal mummies indicates a genetic origin as found in Africans.
Some standards that we will use in describing the x-ray diagrams (lateral view) of the royal mummies are now given:
WM Krogman (The Human Skeleton in Forensic Medicine)
Father: Seqenenre Tao II or Kamose, Mother: Queen Ahhotep I or Queen Ahhotep II Strongly proclined incisors. Rounded forehead, sagittal flattening; rounded occiput. Somewhat forward zygomatic arches; pronounced alveolar prognathism. Steep mandible with squat ramus and receding chin.
Amenhotep I
Father: Ahmose, Mother: Ahmes-Nefertary Rounded glabella, sloping forehead, sagittal plateau, rounded occiput. Zygomatic arches project forward. Moderate protrusion of upper incisors and pronounced prognathism. Receding chin and steeply inclined mandible.
Queen Meryetamon
Father: Ahmose, Mother: Ahmes-Nefertary Queen of Amenhotep I. Rounded occiput and forehead, sagittal plateau. Glabella is weak, but there is sexual dimorphism in this feature. Zygomatic arch is slightly forward. Pronounced protrusion of incisors and high ANB causing overbite. Mandible is moderately inclined and ramus is squat. Strong prognathism.
Thutmose I
Father:?, Mother: Senisoneb Globular skull with high vault; rounded forehead; sagittal plateau; rounded, bulging occiput; weakly manifested glabella; vertical zygomatic arches. Strongly proclined upper and lower incisors; sharply receding chin and angled mandible. Squat ramus and pronounced prognathism.
Thutmose II
Father: Thutmose I, Mother: Queen Mutnofret Rounded glabella and forehead; high vault with sagittal plateau. Rounded occiput. Strongly proclined upper and lower incisors; receding, vertical chin; highly angular mandible. Vertical zygomatic arches and maxillary prognathism.
Thutmose II displays the globular cranium common among more recent Nubians.
quote:NILOTIC ancestry. - 4 of the 7 mummies (which is "Most" for you laymen) have closest matches in the Great Lakes region. This is probably closets to the Karamoja Southern Nilotic sample. (Think Kenyan runners)
Kenyan runners are mostly kalenjin.
quote: beyoku 2011-12-27, 17:05 I assume they are foreign because it's difficult to imagine a population similar to very distant niger-congo, surrounded by mediterraneans (Levantines, Berbers) and East Africans. Unless there is a deep connection with the sudan, which is possible knowing the current nilo-saharan languages repartition (from western to southern Africa and the nile valley).
For those that study Africa, yes there is a "Deep Connection" between Egypt and Sudan....Some folks just dont want to believe it for their own personal reasons. My personal hypothesis argues that Egyptians were more "Nubian" back in time. This seems to be supported by some cranial/skeletal analysis. IN being more "Nubian" they were likely more "Nilotic".
In the Nilo Saharan language group one of the later splits from Sudan is of the Eastern-Sudanic that has a late split into Nilotic languages that traveled south. From Nilotic we get "Southern Nilotic" represented by kalenjin and Karamojan people. - The Kalenjin are the Ethnic group comprising many of the Kenyan runners that claim they come from Egypt. The Karamojong live in Uganda. That brings us to Genetics:
The patterns of population structure we found in northeast Africa, in particular the similarity of Nubian (a northern Sudanese group that speak Nilo-Saharan languages) and the Egyptian population. is consistent with the historical evidence for long-term interactions between Egypt and Nubia, probably resulting in genetic flow between the two regions. However, the Nubian group and the Karamoja group from Uganda share a relatively large number of private alleles (Figure 4), potentially reflecting the shared ancestry of the Nubians with populations from southern Sudan and Uganda. Our results, in addition to mtDNA [7] and Y-chromosome [6,34,35] data, suggest that migration, potentially bidirectional, occurred along the Nile between Egypt and Nubia.
Its is not surprising that when you look at the data most of the Armana samples link to the "Great Lakes Region" PRIOR to matching "Southern Africa". Also it is not surprising the "Great Lakes Region" sample on DNA tribes consists of...........the Karamojong of Uganda :|
If that data are real then I know exactly whats going on. Nilo-Saharan ancestry in Egypt ( that i point out time and time again as neglected in conversation) is coming back to bite everyone in the ass.
---------- Post added 2011-12-27 at 12:07 ------ For those that study Africa, yes there is a "Deep Connection" between Egypt and Sudan...
by 'Sudan', I meant the entire Sudan (original sense), not only the modern state.
So, if Egypt was initially a nilosaharan-like population, that would mean East African (non nilotic) ancestry, west-eurasian ancestry and the afroasiatic language are very late comers. I can very well see the Egyptian language coming late, from East Africa or the Levant but I have a hard time visualizing the recent replacement scenario, especially since modern Nubians also appear to be very Eurasian and East african influenced. beyoku 2011-12-27, 21:00 ^ From the research I have done I have come to the conclusion that the LONG term presence and migration of known Afro-Asiatic or Proto AA speakers is more aligned with the Red Sea coast. - These people moved into the Nile Valley from the East. The long term presence in the Sahara....Western Deserts of Egypt and much of Sudan seems to point to even longer presence of Nilo-Saharan type people... These people pushed into the Nile Valley from the West. The thing is all Nilo Saharans are not the same.
Although they share similar uni-parental markers Autosomally there are at least 3 different genetic "Types" The very familiar "Nilotic Type" represented by Southern Sudanese like The Dinka (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS427US427&q=dinka&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=RSP6TuLYMsOUtwfAy-XRBg&biw=1345&bih=770&sei=RiP6TsWANpSbtweNr4 3RBg), the more Ethiopic "Nubian" type....and then the Saharan/Sahelian Nilo-Saharan people that are in Chad/Niger etc that still speak the language....and their Autosomally related but Linguistic differentiated Chadic kin. Both Groups being more similar to "West Africans" (Doctoris can chime in on this part) lineages A3b2 and B2a1a seem to link all these groups together. This is one of the many reasons Egyptians are MORE "West African" than Ethiopians in these structure exercises.
In any case the people that are the more "West African" of the Nilo Saharan speakers represent the EARLIEST migration from Sudan Westward - 8500 BCE while proto Nubian on the Nile comes some 5 THOUSAND years later. Proto Southern Nilotic even later than that. These people have been around for a long time. I am not saying "Egyptians" Proper were fully Nilo Saharan but the people were IN Egypt....and possible prior to Afro-Asiatic speakers. These speakers are actually the ones that crate the first Pottery in Africa. And when people obscure Egyptian origins talking about how they "Come from the Sahara" they dont realize these are the people they are talking about...........and when the Sahara dried up and the animals went south - These are the people that travels south with them...........and under the hypothesis that Niger-Congo is a member if Nilo-Saharan I come to the conclusion that West African like Nilo-Saharan speakers are the parental ancestors of West African Niger Congo speakers.
There is actually a bunch of information that points to this. The Super elongation of Ancient Egyptian limbs for one, this Details Egyptian limbs as "Tropically Adapted" (Super Tropical even) but authors note that Egypt is NOT in the Tropics. Studies bring up Ultra Violet exposure and mean annual temp. When doing research you come up with this:
^ That dark Area in Africa is basically he known home of Nilo-Saharan people BUT the place that is supposed to be antecedent to Egypt. No wonder Southern Sudanese are super long and pitch black.
Also there is this image from one book of many books:
They are not "Late Comers" but they are not the first there. that last study on Sudan I linked said this:
We conclude that geography, language and culture have played an important role in shaping patterns and structure of genetic variation in Sudan, and that these patterns may have been shaped by long-term occupation by Nilo-Saharan groups and more recent migration from North Africa and Eurasia to the Nile Valley
quote:KALENJIN INTRODUCED CIRCUMCISION TO ANCIENT EGYPT LEDAMA Member Member # 21677
Rate Member Icon 1 posted 10 August, 2014 01:36 PM Profile for LEDAMA Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote TA-RUSIEK=she-that celebrates kalenjin male initiates ta-rusiek at the Medjet(menjet)
- -
most of the bantu tribes originating from egypt have kalenjin age-set names associated with circumcision.The kenyan and ugandan bantus with kalenjin ageset names are kikuyu,Ameru,Abagusii,bukusu,mijikenda,baganda,bagisu.
KALENJIN AGE-SET NAME-BANTU AGE-SET NAME MAINA(kalenjin)-BAMAINA(bantu) SAWE(kalenjin)-BASAWA(bantu) CHUMA(kalenjin)-BACHUMA(bantu)
Also understand kalenjin language is closer to egyptian MDU-NETER than bantu,for example
DOG=set(egyptian),seseet(kalenjin),sese(bantu) CAT=pakhet(egyptian),pakhet(kalenjin),paka(bantu) BREAD=kimyo(egyptian),kimyo(kalenjin),kima(bantu). CONCLUSION Since the kalenjin belonged to millitary cast of egypt,the kalenjin was mainly used in administration. Posts: 53 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013 | IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kalenjin people worshiped HATHOR during the secret circumcision ritual,even today
quote:Hathor Hathor Hathor
Hathor is one of the most famous goddesses of Ancient Egypt. She was known as "the Great One of Many Names" and her titles and attributes are so numerous that she was important in every area of the life and death of the ancient Egyptians. It is thought that her worship was widespread even in the Predynastic period because she appears on the Narmer palette. However, some scholars suggest that the cow-headed goddess depicted on the palette is in fact Bat (an ancient cow goddess who was largely absorbed by Hathor) or even Narmer himself. However, she was certainly popular by the Old Kingdom as she appears with Bast in the valley temple of Khafre at Giza. Hathor represents Upper Egypt and Bast represents Lower Egypt.
She was originally a personification of the Milky Way, which was considered to be the milk that flowed from the udders of a heavenly cow (linking her with Nut, Bat and Mehet-Weret). As time passed she absorbed the attributes of many other goddesses but also became more closely associated with Isis, who to some degree usurped her position as the most popular and powerful goddess. Yet she remained popular throughout Egyptian history. More festivals were dedicated to her and more children were named after her than any other god or goddess of Ancient Egypt. Her worship was not confined to Egypt and Nubia. She was worshipped throughout Semitic West Asia, Ethiopian, Somlia and Libya, but was particularly venerated in the city of Byblos.
She was a sky goddess, known as "Lady of Stars" and "Sovereign of Stars" and linked to Sirius (and so the goddesses Sopdet and Isis). Her birthday was celebrated on the day that Sirius first rose in the sky (heralding the coming innundation). By the Ptolemaic period, she was known as the goddess of Hethara, the third month of the Egyptian calendar.
As "the Mistress of Heaven" she was associated with Nut, Mut and the Queen. While as "the Celestial Nurse" she nursed the Pharaoh in the guise of a cow or as a sycamore fig (because it exudes a white milky substance). As "the Mother of Mothers" she was the goddess of women, fertility, children and childbirth. She had power over anything having to do with women from problems with conception or childbirth, to health and beauty and matters of the heart. However, she was not exclusively worshipped by women and unlike the other gods and goddesses she had both male and female priests. Hathor
Hathor was also the goddess of beauty and patron of the cosmetic arts. Her traditional votive offering was two mirrors and she was often depicted on mirrors and cosmetic palettes. Yet she was not considered to be vain or shallow, rather she was assured of her own beauty and goodness and loved beautiful and good things. She was known as "the mistress of life" and was seen as the embodiment of joy, love, romance, perfume, dance, music and alcohol. Hathor was especially connected with the fragrance of myrrh incense, which was considered to be very precious and to embody all of the finer qualities of the female sex. Hathor was associated with turquoise, malachite, gold and copper. As "the Mistress of Turquoise" and the "lady of Malachite" she was the patron of miners and the goddess of the Sinai Peninsula (the location of the famous mines). The Egyptians used eye makeup made from ground malachite which had a protective function (in fighting eye infections) which was attributed to Hathor. Hathor from the tomb of Horemheb in the Valley of the Kings copyright Jean Pierre Dalbera
She was the patron of dancers and was associated with percussive music, particularly the sistrum (which was also a fertility fetish). She was also associated with the Menit necklace (which may also have been a percussion instrument) and was often known as "the Great Menit". Many of her priests were artisans, musicians, and dancers who added to the quality of life of the Egyptians and worshipped her by expressing their artistic natures. Hathor was the incarnation of dance and sexuality and was given the epithet "Hand of God" (refering to the act of masturbation) and "Lady of the Vulva". One myth tells that Ra had become so despondent that he refused to speak to anyone. Hathor (who never suffered depression or doubt) danced before him exposing her private parts, which caused him to laugh out loud and return to good spirits. Hathor copyright Gerard Ducher
As the "lady of the west" and the "lady of the southern sycamore" she protected and assisted the dead on their final journey. Trees were not commonplace in ancient Egypt, and their shade was welcomed by the living and the dead alike. She was sometimes depicted as handing out water to the deceased from a sycamore tree (a role formerly associated with Amentet who was often described as the daughter of Hathor) and according to myth, she (or Isis) used the milk from the Sycamore tree to restore sight to Horus who had been blinded by Set. Because of her role in helping the dead, she often appears on sarcophagi with Nut (the former on top of the lid, the later under the lid). She occassionally took the form of the "Seven Hathors" who were associated with fate and fortune telling. It was thought that the "Seven Hathors" knew the length of every childs life from the day it was born and questioned the dead souls as they travelled to the land of the dead. Her priests could read the fortune of a newborn child, and act as oracles to explain the dreams of the people. People would travel for miles to beseech the goddess for protection, assistance and inspiration. The "Seven Hathors" were worshiped in seven cities: Waset (Thebes), Iunu (On, Heliopolis), Aphroditopolis, Sinai, Momemphis, Herakleopolis, and Keset. They may have been linked to the constellations Pleiades.
However, she was also a goddess of destruction in her role as the Eye of Ra - defender of the sun god. According to legend, people started to criticise Ra when he ruled as Pharaoh. Ra decided to send his "eye" against them (in the form of Sekhmet). She began to slaughter people by the hundred. When Ra relented and asked her to stop she refused as she was in a blood lust. The only way to stop the slaughter was to colour beer red (to resemble blood) and pour the mixture over the killing fields. When she drank the beer, she became drunk and drowsy, and slept for three days. When she awoke with a hangover she had no taste for human flesh and mankind was saved. Ra renamed her Hathor and she became a goddess of love and happiness. As a result, soldiers also prayed to Hathor/Sekhmet to give them her strength and focus in battle.
Her husband Horus the elder was associated with the pharaoh, so Hathor was associated with the Queen. Her name is translated as "The House of Horus", which refers both to the sky (where Horus lived as a Hawk) and to the royal family. She had a son named Ihy (who was a god of music and dancing) with Horus-Behdety and the three were worshipped at Denderah (Iunet). However, her family relationships became increasingly confusing as time passed. She was probably first considered to be the wife of Horus the elder and the daughter of Ra, but when Ra and Horus were linked as the composite deity Re-Horakty she became both the wife and the daughter of Ra.
This strengthened her association with Isis, who was the mother of Horus the child by Osiris. In Hermopolis (Khmunu) Thoth was the foremost god, and Hathor was considered to be his wife and the mother of Re-Horakhty (a composite deity which merged Ra with Hor-akhty). Hathor, from the Papyrus of Ani
Of course, Thoth already had a wife, Seshat (the goddess of reading, writing, architecture and arithmetic), so Hathor absorbed her role including acting as a witness at the judgement of the dead. Her role in welcoming the dead gained her a further husband - Nehebkau (the guardian of the entrance of the underworld). Then when Ra and Amun merged, Hathor became seen as the wife of Sobek who was considered to be an aspect of Amen-Ra. Yet Sobek was also associated with Seth, the enemy of Horus!
She took the form of a woman, goose, cat, lion, malachite, sycamore fig, to name but a few. However, Hathor's most famous manifestation is as a cow and even when she appears as a woman she has either the ears of a cow, or a pair of elegant horns. When she is depicted as entirely a cow, she always has beautifully painted eyes. She was often depicted in red (the color of passion) though her sacred color is turquoise. It is also interesting to note that only she and the dwarf god Bes (who also had a role in childbirth) were ever depicted in portrait (rather than in profile). Isis borrowed many of her functions and adapted her iconography to the extent that it is often difficult to be sure which of the two goddesses is depicted. However, the two deities were not the same. Isis was in many ways a more complex deity who suffered the death of her husband and had to fight to protect her infant son, so she understood the trials and tribulations of the people and could relate to them. Hathor, on the other hand, was the embodiment of power and success and did not experience doubts. While Isis was merciful, Hathor was single minded in pursuit of her goals. When she took the form of Sekhmet, she did not take pity on the people and even refused to stop killing when ordered to do so. copyright J Hill 2010
^^Quite unconvincing. The bulk of your evidence consists of mere assertion. Are Yoruba deities for example "really" Egyptian? And why do you see the need to bring in Hebrews, Yorba, Pygmies and Persians to create this so-called "Proto-Yoruba" construct? It is all rather dubious, and such unsubstantiated claims play into the hands of the detractors of African history. Merely claiming or asserting something means little. You will be asked to put credible evidence on the floor over here at ES/ESR.
hyksos were forced out of egypt by Amasis,they didn't assimilate,except ta-meru,ta-seti and ta-netjer.the rest were forced out, triggering first bantu migration to kush and west africa.
Aside from a mass of other ludricrous assertions, you like an assortment of 'Afro-enthusiasts', advance the dubious "Fleeing Negroes" model, in which West Africa gets civilization of "Bantus" migrate cuz Hyksos, or assorted Asiatics invade or conquer Egypt. This "Fleeing Negroes" notion, has been debunked again and again, yet you keep merely asserting it like an article of religious faith. Maybe it is... ANd since when do "Bantu" "flee" to Kush? If you want to build a model linking the Nile region to West Africa there are other, more credible, stronger ways to do it, but you guys don't listen.
FAMOUS KALENJIN ANCIENT EGYPTIAN PHARAOHS: The ancient egyptian Pharaohs,weren't all known by their real names.Most of them were called by their INITIATION NAMES.Here is some of the list of famous egyptian pharaohs whose names are Proto-Kalenjin in origin; 1)Pharaoh TUTANKHAMUN=TUTEN-KHA-AMUN/TUTEN-KA-AMUN/AMON.
^^Right... So all these guys was Kalejin.. just under dfferent names.. Like the rappers have "rap names"? **roll eyes**
KALENJIN-GERMANIC WORDS. German language shares alot with Kalenjin though Kalenjin shares substantially with English and Greek..
^^lol, this is getting more surreal by the moment. But I get it. Its some white guy trolling, advancing the most dubious allegedly "Afrocentric" stuff, so it can be "refuted" later.. lol.. I get it... whatever, its good comedy.. Carry on then!
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
@LEDAMA - "Beyoku" is not a proper genetic source.
Furthermore that is something I wrote 3 years ago. Ideas change as knowledge grows. You could be posting something I said then but no longer support.
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
^^^ What do you mean "could"
Did he post something you wrote and no longer support or not?
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
Yes, new research and discussion has modified my ideas. The passage above is simply too simplistic. That was 3 years ago. I dont know the specific context but It was prior to the current info we have now, as well as Published adna on Egypt that has been seen here or "hoarded" on the FB group. Here is the perfect example...and take note because this is a big one that affects you:
quote: From the research I have done I have come to the conclusion that the LONG term presence and migration of known Afro-Asiatic or Proto AA speakers is more aligned with the Red Sea coast. - These people moved into the Nile Valley from the East. The long term presence in the Sahara....Western Deserts of Egypt and much of Sudan seems to point to even longer presence of Nilo-Saharan type people... These people pushed into the Nile Valley from the West
If I were to re-write this I would be worded so differently (and sourced differently) that the original idea would mostly cease to exist. This is the issue with taking someones opinion or interpretation at face value not knowing how/when they have come up with their conclusions....not being familiar with their Biases....or not having experience with the subject but rather just looking for talking points to argue with Euros. I don't enjoy the fact that old stuff like this is parroted around the web.
Some of the things I link together and talk about for the most part are incorrect or simply "Unknowns" - Things we have to refer back to with future research.
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
^^^On this we can agree.
The aDNA results of the Ancient Egyptian mummies (Ramses III=E1b1a, autosomal STR, JAMA, BMJ, DNA Tribes) was a pretty hard hit to take for racist and hamitic/dynastic race myth supporters. They wanted so much for AE to be like the modern recently admixed East Africans or even West Asian or European, that the aDNA results was practically a slap in the face of those racist idiots.
I think the aDNA results is why racists stopped claiming Ancient Egypt as an European or West Asian civilization (or African heavily admixed with them).
Ancient Egypt was truly a child of Africa. Developed mostly by indigenous Africans. Its roots in the Green Sahara period in sites like Nabta Playa.
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
On what can we agree? The quote that I would re-write. I dont know if you understand the implications of what you are agreeing to.
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA:
MACE AND KNOBKIERRIE IS A KALENJIN SYMBOL OF POWER kALENJIN PRESIDENT MOI
hmmm
And here all my life I thought Moi was Luo like the USA prez. Now I know better, thanks.
So just what does Kalenjin entail?
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: On what can we agree?
The part about "Published adna" having changed or confirmed our knowledge of Ancient Egyptian population affiliations and history obviously.
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
I probably read it a long time ago. I guess some people may not completely changed their prejudice. I was not talking about the opinion of each and every people often ridiculous racists (especially on that site), but the actual published data and analysis (Ramses III=E1b1a, autosomal STR, JAMA, BMJ).
As a side note, even your own post about unpublished aDNA data (lies or not) confirmed Ancient Egyptians were mostly from the African Y-DNA A, B and E, MtDNA L haplogroups. I just don't know if you were being truthful with those or not, but whatever. Published aDNA data of Ancient Egyptians mummies confirmed thus far the indigenous African origin of Ancient Egyptians. For example, E1b1a, the haplogroup of Ramses III and the Screaming Mummy, matches the same regions DNA Tribes identified as being where the autosomal STR were the most prevalent (Great Lakes, Southern Africa, Tropical West Africa, etc). As E1b1a is prevalent in the Great Lakes, Southern African and West African regions (as well as in African-Americans).
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
You are still going on about DNA tribes Ramesses III. The unconfirmed stuff is just that...unconfirmed, doesn't even cross my mind.
BUT Nobody is talking about that...forest for the trees man. If i send you a link, obviously its worth reading because I am sure what is in the link has not been posted here yet. If you had read it I am positive you would have posted it here like that Tut mtdna thread swagger jack,.
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: The unconfirmed stuff is just that...unconfirmed, doesn't even cross my mind.
Wow, you receive unpublished aDNA results about Ancient Egyptian mummies which you posted on the internet and those results dont even cross YOUR mind. Somebody else might ignore them as they may think you were lying about those, but *you* should know you were not lying yourself. Those results were confirmed by you but were simply unpublished. Unless of course, you were indeed lying. It doesn't matter anyway we got the Published aDNA results from the 18th/20 Dynasty royal mummies. The other results were from late dynasties which we know were foreign dynasties and actually when large scale immigration into Egypt from Europe and West Asia started (there was also the Hyksos (Aamu/Asian) dynasty before during the second intermediate).
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: The unconfirmed stuff is just that...unconfirmed, doesn't even cross my mind.
Wow, you receive unpublished aDNA results about Ancient Egyptian mummies which you posted on the internet and those results doesn't even cross YOUR mind. Somebody else might ignore them as they may think you were lying about those, but *you* should know you were not lying yourself. Those results were confirmed by you but were simply unpublished.
There are published ancient dna studies on mummies floating all around the internet. Why dont you go off and find some. Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
quote:Originally posted by beyoku:
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: The unconfirmed stuff is just that...unconfirmed, doesn't even cross my mind.
Wow, you receive unpublished aDNA results about Ancient Egyptian mummies which you posted on the internet and those results doesn't even cross YOUR mind. Somebody else might ignore them as they may think you were lying about those, but *you* should know you were not lying yourself. Those results were confirmed by you but were simply unpublished.
There are published ancient dna studies on mummies floating all around the internet. Why dont you go off and find some.
???
That's what we are talking about. The published aDNA results.
I was just surprised you're ignoring the unpublished aDNA results you posted yourself. That's all.
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
You see that tree? That Illuminated tree is Ramesses III and DNA tribes. That entire forest is all the other published stuff that is floating out there waiting for you to find. The information I received for all intents and purposes is not even on the image.
Go head homey. Find something. We have, I pasted it in a link that you "probably read a long time ago".
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
^^^Sorry, I shouldn't have brought up the unpublished aDNA haplogroups results posted by *you*. You clearly want us to ignore them now...
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
You can comment on them as much as you want. The thing is there are other published results on the Internet. Why don't you go our looking for them? Why are you harping on ramses and DNA tribes ad infinitum?
Go out... Find them.... Post them here. What are you waiting for?
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: You can comment on them as much as you want.
I know I can comment on them, I just find it odd you're the one who doesn't want to comment on them or take them into account considering you're the one who posted them in the first place...
As far as I know, the few other aDNA results are from late foreign dynasties (Greeks, Romans, Assyrians, etc) which we know is the period when large scale immigrations into Egypt from Europe and Western Asia started.
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
So that was the meat that you decided to pull out of the post???
I would think the fact that other mummy results unseen in the Web would be more interesting. You remember that Nubian aDNA... You know that's was sitting around in the web YEARS before I posted it right?
Anyone could have found that. As the most frequent poster on ES want are you doing to provide new stuff like that to the site when I am telling you RIGHT NOW it exists?
NOTHING... I thought so.
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
CHANGE IN THE ETHNIC COMPOSITION OF MODERN EGYPT:
We all know in terms of ethnic composition, modern Egypt, is much different from Ancient Egypt.
Contemporary Egypt, is mostly an ethnic admixture between foreign invaders and conquerors and indigenous African people. Autosomally, as a whole, they tend to cluster more with Eurasian especially the Middle East. In the south, populations like Nubians probably cluster more with Africans. All this is because of massive immigration from Europe and western Asia which started already in dynastic time, culminating in the Hyksos (Aamu) foreign rule during the second intermediate period, as well as during the late periods up to now (Assyrians, Macedonians, Arab conquest, British colonization, etc).
quote: As a consequence the many invasions of ancient Egypt, the population has changed over the years. There were Hyksos (Heka Khasut) from Asia, who melted into the Delta Region around 1500 B.C.E., and then a series of invasions by the Assyrians, Persians and Greeks. With the arrival of large groups of Arabians in the seventh century C.E., the racial character of Egypt began to change.
The resultant mixtures of Africans, Arabs, Greeks and Persians were to be jointed with Turks, Russians, Albanians, British, and French to create a different population that there had been during the ancient times.
One cannot say that today's Egypt is the same as the Egypt of antiquity anymore than one can say that today's North America is the same as it was 5000 years ago.
- From The Oxford Encyclopedia of African Thought, Volume 1 (2010)
quote:With the passage of time, each wave of new immigrants has assimilated into the local mix of peoples , making modern Egypt a combination of Libyans, Nubians, Syrians, Persians, Macedonians, Romans, Arabs, Turks, Circassians, Greeks, Italians, and Armenians, along with the descendants of the people of ancient Egypt.
- From A Brief History of Egypt by Jr. Goldschmidt Arthur (2007)
quote: - Alexander the Great’s conquest of Egypt, in 332 BCE, precipitated a period of mass immigration .
from Ethnicity (Riggs, 2012) see above/original post for more
quote:The Late Period is often singled out as the time when mass immigration into Egypt altered the character of the country
from A Companion to Ancient History Edited by Andrew Erskine (2009)
quote:The Muslim conquerors did not attempt a mass conversion of Christianity to Islam, if only because that would have reduced the taxes non-Muslims were compelled to pay, but a number of other factors were at work. Arab men could marry Christian women and their children would become Muslim. Large-scale Arab immigration into Egypt began during the eighth century.
from A History of Egypt: From Earliest Times to the Present by Jason Thompson (2009) Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
LEDEMA QUOTES BEYOKU IN SUPPORT:
beyoku 2011-12-27, 17:05 I assume they are foreign because it's difficult to imagine a population similar to very distant niger-congo, surrounded by mediterraneans (Levantines, Berbers) and East Africans. Unless there is a deep connection with the sudan, which is possible knowing the current nilo-saharan languages repartition (from western to southern Africa and the nile valley).
For those that study Africa, yes there is a "Deep Connection" between Egypt and Sudan....Some folks just dont want to believe it for their own personal reasons. My personal hypothesis argues that Egyptians were more "Nubian" back in time. This seems to be supported by some cranial/skeletal analysis. IN being more "Nubian" they were likely more "Nilotic".
In the Nilo Saharan language group one of the later splits from Sudan is of the Eastern-Sudanic that has a late split into Nilotic languages that traveled south. From Nilotic we get "Southern Nilotic" represented by kalenjin and Karamojan people. - The Kalenjin are the Ethnic group comprising many of the Kenyan runners that claim they come from Egypt. The Karamojong live in Uganda. That brings us to Genetics:
The patterns of population structure we found in northeast Africa, in particular the similarity of Nubian (a northern Sudanese group that speak Nilo-Saharan languages) and the Egyptian population. is consistent with the historical evidence for long-term interactions between Egypt and Nubia, probably resulting in genetic flow between the two regions. However, the Nubian group and the Karamoja group from Uganda share a relatively large number of private alleles (Figure 4), potentially reflecting the shared ancestry of the Nubians with populations from southern Sudan and Uganda. Our results, in addition to mtDNA [7] and Y-chromosome [6,34,35] data, suggest that migration, potentially bidirectional, occurred along the Nile between Egypt and Nubia.
^^Nothing Beyoku says above makes your case that the Kalenjin founded the dynasties or ruled as pharaohs in various dynasties. At best you have shown Egyptians shared links with some Nilotic populations. No surprise there. But that is not at issue. The issue is SPECIFIC links to the Kalejin re your dynastic claims.
Amun-Ra says: As a consequence the many invasions of ancient Egypt, the population has changed over the years. There were Hyksos (Heka Khasut) from Asia, who melted into the Delta Region around 1500 B.C.E., and then a series of invasions by the Assyrians, Persians and Greeks. With the arrival of large groups of Arabians in the seventh century C.E., the racial character of Egypt began to change.
The resultant mixtures of Africans, Arabs, Greeks and Persians were to be jointed with Turks, Russians, Albanians, British, and French to create a different population that there had been during the ancient times.
One cannot say that today's Egypt is the same as the Egypt of antiquity anymore than one can say that today's North America is the same as it was 5000 years ago.
- From The Oxford Encyclopedia of African Thought, Volume 1 (2010)
^^Indeed, as noted numerous times in the past on this forum. The ancients are not identical to the moderns. We pretty much already know this.
"Rebel" says: @beyoku using Biblical prophecies to argue the settlement of west Africans in Egypt is pseudo science.
lol.. look at this laughable strawman "Rebel" uses to debate. Earlier he condemned a reference as 'Afrocentric' that HE hisself initially sourced to serve his purposes elsewhere.
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
quote:KALENJIN-GERMANIC WORDS. German language shares alot with Kalenjin though Kalenjin shares substantially with English and Greek..
^^lol, this is getting more surreal by the moment. But I get it. Its some white guy trolling, advancing the most dubious allegedly "Afrocentric" stuff, so it can be "refuted" later.. lol.. I get it... whatever, its good comedy.. Carry on then!
what's so funny?? You are a slow euro aren;t you? YES this is what i mean,alot of greeks settled in egypt during the kalenjin 26th dynasty that is why greeks adopted alot of kalenjin/egyptian words. YES,the 3rd,18th and 26th dynasties are kalenjin dynasties because pharaohs of these dynasties had kalenjin initiation names eg psamis(bad),nekho(flock of sheep),emhotep(king forever),sobekhotep(live forever/reign forever),amenkhotep(cursed forever),amasis(eat with asis/loved by asiis)also these dynasties had the following characteristics associated with kalenjin i.e circumcision as a right of passage,buck toothed pharaohs,kalenjin type female circumcision(pharaonic type III),menat necklaces(kalenjin menkit necklace worn by warriors during circumcision),worship of asiis and hathor,mace and knobkierrie,kalenjin related language spoken during these dynastic periods,the name pharaoh(prr-o)is the kalenjin word para-o meaning great house,obsession with archery,extraction of bottom two incisors,kalenjin town names e,g phillae=pa-illat(kalenjin),pa-illay(somali)both meaning 'of-illat(kalenjin deity),herding canes.nubian wigs(kalenjin laphet wig).
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
quote:5 Icon 1 posted 10 September, 2014 09:27 AM Profile for beyoku Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote @LEDAMA - "Beyoku" is not a proper genetic source.
oops sorry?my bad.maybe i was trying to draw you into the discussion,n'way point taken. @Tukuler
quote: - posted 10 September, 2014 12:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA:
MACE AND KNOBKIERRIE IS A KALENJIN SYMBOL OF POWER
hmmm
And here all my life I thought Moi was Luo like the USA prez. Now I know better, thanks.
So just what does Kalenjin entail?
There is no tribe or ethnicity called kalenjin,the term kalenjin(i say to you) was adopted to describe a group of related tribes which include KIPSIGIS/KIPSIKIS,NANDI,TUKEN/TUGEN,MARAKWET,POKOT,SENGWER(sirikwa),SEBEI/SABAOT.There are tribes related to kalenjin in eritrea(kunama),ethiopia(dassanech),murle(sudan),datooga/barbaig(tanzania),sebei(uganda).kalenjin people migrated from egypt together with southern bantus,thats why southern bantus practise kalenjin type male circumcision(button-hole circumcision)and have kalenjin age-set names,these names have no meaning in bantu but have meaning in kalenjin,there are other nilotes in kenya,but they migrated from KUSH e.g east nilotic turkana related to karamoja and toposa migrated from kush(wawat) into ethiopia with kalenjin who migrated from egypt.east nilotic maasai migrated from seba(ethiopia&eritrea)proto axumite kingdom DAMAT.river lake nilotes LUO migrated from Alodia kush.you must know the difference between bantus that migrated from kush(baganda,bagisu,baluhya),bantus from egypt(kikuyu,meru,kisii,kuria,chagga,shona,zulu,yao)bantus from libya(fulani,wolof,swazi,ndebele,tutsi,hima),nilotes from egypt(kalenjin and datooga),nilotes from libya(serer,dinka,nuer,nuba),nilotes from kush(turkana,karamajong,toposa,luo),nilotes from punt(proto-axumites e.g maasai,samburu,omo-river nilotes),somalis(dedan)and oromo(sheba)are descendants kalenjin soldiers posted in AKKAD and dravidian women during the reign of pharaoh smekhare.
MAASAI LOWER NUMERALS 1) obo 2) aare 3) okuni 4) oonguan 5) imiet 6) Ile 7) oopishana 8) isiet 9) oondo 10) tomon
KALENJIN-OROMO UPPER NUMERALS(9-1000). As you will see all Oromo lower numerals (1-8),are semitic in origin.but all the upper numerals(9-1000) of Oromo are nilotic Kalenjin in origin.They all include kalenjin lower numerals.
KALENJIN-OROMO Sakal/sogool=Sakal - 9 Taman=Kudhan - 10 Taman ak agenge - 11 : Tiptem=digdem - 20 Tiptem ak agenge - 21 : Sosom -soddoma 30 Sosom ak agenge -31 : Artam - Afurtama40 Artam ak agenge - 41 : Konom - Shantama50 Konom ak agenge - 51 : Tamanwogik Lo - 60 Tamanwogik Lo ak agenge - 61 : Tamanwogik tisap - 70 Tamanwogik tisap ak agenge - 71 : ... sisiit - 80 ... sisiit ak agenge - 81 : ... sogool -sogoltama 90 ... sogool ak agenge - 91 : bogol - Bogol 100 bogol ak agenge 101 : bogol aeng' - 200 : bogol somok - 300
MAASAI UPPER INFLUENCE SOMALI AND OROMO. This influence occured when proto-axumite/proto-maasai ANCIENT SABAEANS colonised Yemen and the whole of southern arabia.The Sabaeans Nilotic maa-ancestors colonised the Nilo-semitic SHEBA(oromo),OPHIR(afar),DEDAN(somalis) and HAVILLAH(Tigray & Tigrinya).This colonisation occured when these tribes were still living in Yemen and south arabia.
OROMO-SOMALI-MAASAI NUMERALS. Tomon 10 Tomon o obo 11 Tomon o aare 12 Tomon o okuni 13 Tomon o oofigwan14 Tomon o nabo 11 Tomon o are 12 Tomon o uni 13 Tomon o ofigwan 14 Tomon o imyet 15 Tomon o ille 16 Tomon o oopishana 17 Tomon oo naapishana 18 Tomon o isyet 19 Tomon o oudo Tomon oo naudo 20 Tigitam 20 Tigit&m o obo TigitSm o nabo 21 Osom or 'N-domoni uni 23 Artam or 'N-domoni oSgwan24 Onom or 'N-domoni 'myet 25 Onom oo tomon or 'N-domoni 'lie 26 Onom oo tigitam or 'N-domoni naapishana 27 Onom oo 'n-domoni uni or 'N-domoni 'eyet 28 Onom o artain or 'N-domoni naudo 29
tigray and tigrinya people were HIMYARITES known in the bible as HAVILLAH,amhara people were SEA PEOPLE aka HITTITES,afar people were the OPHIR of the bible known for their gold jewellery,their gold jewellery designs is similar to that of maasai because they were colonised by maasai SABAEANS.today archeologist have confused himyarite(tigray) culture of yemen with that of sabaeans.AFRO-ASIATIC URHEIMAT was SEMER and ACCAD not ethiopia.
Posted by Fourty2Tribes (Member # 21799) on :
As a people the Kalenjin are decedents of the Nile Valley. Yes or no? That is the question. I'll be the first person to say Yes.
I dont know if they go back to Nabta Playa. Different world back then.
loling@ Ledama calling Zarahan a slow Euro lol
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
LEDAMA, Quoting Beyoku from 2011 doesn't help your case. Merely asserting that "it is so" doesn't help your case either. What's taking you so long in producing credible scholarly evidence that your so called "Kalenjin" founded dynastic Egypt, and rule the dynasties you specify? You merely keep copying and pasting the same assertions.
hy hyksos were forced out of egypt by Amasis,they didn't assimilate,except ta-meru,ta-seti and ta-netjer.the rest were forced out, triggering first bantu migration to kush and west africa.
^And where is credible scholarly proof that the "fleeing negroes" were the first "Bantu" migration to Kush and West Africa? What's taking you so long? Quoting Beyoku isn't helping your case.
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
@zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova-
quote: What's taking you so long in producing credible scholarly evidence that your so called "Kalenjin" founded dynastic Egypt, and rule the dynasties you specify? You merely keep copying and pasting the same assertions.
By credible scholarly evidence, assume you mean those written by white,pseudo-historians,egyptlogists,antropologist and archeologists?who for the last 200 years had been working day and night to rob africans off their history. @Amun-Ra The Ultimate-
quote: CHANGE IN THE ETHNIC COMPOSITION OF MODERN EGYPT:
We all know in terms of ethnic composition, modern Egypt, is much different from Ancient Egypt.
Contemporary Egypt, is mostly an ethnic admixture between foreign invaders and conquerors and indigenous African people. Autosomally, as a whole, they tend to cluster more with Eurasian especially the Middle East. In the south, populations like Nubians probably cluster more with Africans. All this is because of massive immigration from Europe and western Asia which started already in dynastic time, culminating in the Hyksos (Aamu) foreign rule during the second intermediate period, as well as during the late periods up to now (Assyrians, Macedonians, Arab conquest, British colonization, etc).
quote: As a consequence the many invasions of ancient Egypt, the population has changed over the years. There were Hyksos (Heka Khasut) from Asia, who melted into the Delta Region around 1500 B.C.E., and then a series of invasions by the Assyrians, Persians and Greeks. With the arrival of large groups of Arabians in the seventh century C.E., the racial character of Egypt began to change.
The resultant mixtures of Africans, Arabs, Greeks and Persians were to be jointed with Turks, Russians, Albanians, British, and French to create a different population that there had been during the ancient times.
One cannot say that today's Egypt is the same as the Egypt of antiquity anymore than one can say that today's North America is the same as it was 5000 years ago.
I am afraid you may be mistaken,the hyksos HEKA KASEWETin which the term kasewet in kalenjin is pronounced KESWET Meaning 'abandoned house',fled from canaan,abandoning their original homeland in canaan after the SEMITIC EXPANSION of middle east forced them out e.g hebrews,edomites,midianites,ishmaelites,ammonites and moabites who were expanding into their territory.this history is recorded in the bible 1st chronicles 4:40.also read exodus and deotronomy. This explains the similarity of natufian culture and bantu culture,ancient canaanite pottery and baskets are similar in design to those of bantus,the mudbrick WALL OF JERICHO is very similar in design to the BENIN WALL,the stone walls of great zimbabwe,thimlich ohingla is similar in design to canaanite stone walls.the artitectural designs of the houses of ancient ghana and ancient mali is similar to those of canaanites and egyptian middle kingdom era during HYKSOS ERA .This explains also why BENIN TYPE SICKLE CELL ANAEMIA is not found in egyptian arabs of lower egypt and saudi arabians,but is found in ALL bantus,modern black lower egyptians,syrians,jordanians,yemeni jews,mizrahi jews and lebanese.Because,traditionally the black bantu canaanites used to border these nationalities. It was the Kalenjin pharaoh of 18th dynasty who forced these hyksos bantus out of egypt,some fled to libya(southern bantus e.g tutsi,ngoni and shona) and west africa(west african bantus),others up the nile towards MEROE,e.g the MERU people of kenya,known by the proto-kalenjin wasetian egyptians as TA-MERU(she of AMERU or AMORITES),other hyksos bantus went further south towards KUSH KERMA region and mixed with luos e.g bu-kusu(kush),ba-gisu(kush),baganda ,ba-kuria and mwila people from MAKURIA,in swahili and bantu a kuria person is known as MUKURIA,that means CANDACE(kandake) of makuria was probably a kuria woman. check out this bukusu oral history,
quote:Bukusu tribe (Luhya) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Bukusu are one of the seventeen Kenyan tribes of the Luhya Bantu people of East Africa. Calling themselves BaBukusu, they are the largest tribe of the Luhya nation, making up about 17% of the Luhya population. They speak Bukusu dialect.
Contents
1 Origins 2 Settlement 3 Traditional life 3.1 Family 3.2 Initiation 3.3 Marriage 3.4 Death 4 Economic activities 5 Politics 6 Culture 7 Notable Personalities 8 References 9 External links
Origins
The Bukusu myths of origin state that the first man, Mwambu (The discoverer or inventor), was made from mud by Wele Khakaba at a place called Mumbo (which translates to 'West'). God then created a wife for Mwambu, a woman called Sela. Mwambu and his descendants moved out of Mumbo and settled on the foothills of Mount Elgon, known to them as ((Masaba)) from where their descendants grew to form the current Bukusu population. Anthropologists believe that the Bukusu did not become a distinct grouping apart from the rest of the Luhya population until, at the very earliest, the late 18th Century. They moved into Central Uganda as part of a much larger group of people, many forming the eastern extension of the great Bantu migration out of central Africa. (See Origins of the Luhya.) Settlement
Together with other Luhya sub nations, the Bukusu are thought to have first settled north of Lake Turkana at a place called Enabutuku. From here they settled in Cherangani Hills at place called Embayi later to be known as Sirikwa. After the evil and bad omen befall them they dispersed taking six routes; five going around mount Elgon and one via the eastern side of Mount Elgon. Those who went via the western side of Mount Elgon included Basilikwa, Banabayi, Baneala, Bakikayi and Bamalaba. Mwalie cluster took the eastern side route and settled at Mwalie hills. This area was already inhabited by some Kalenjin sub nationalities like the Laku, Sabiny, Bongomek, Sebei etc. These groups were hostile to their new neighbors. To check and protect themselves against these wild tribes the Bukusu built fortified villages. The art of fortified villages was as ancient as the tribe right from their origin in Misri.
The Bukusu trace their origin from Muntu we Entebe who lived in Tabasya of Misri. Muntu was a great warrior who was later deified by the people of Misri. His son Mwambu married Sera the daughter of Wasiela the son of Samba Ambarani who is believed to be Abraham the Hebrew. Mwambu founded the cities of Kush, Nabibia (Nubia, Namelu (Meroe), Rwa (Alwa) and others including Soba and Balana.[1]
Mwambu became the father of Mwaabini the inventor cum discoverer. Mwaabini was the father of Kongolo and Saba.
Kongolo became the father of all bantu tribes west of River Nile while Saba became the father of all the Bantu East of the River Nile. Saba moved to the East and founded the kingdom of Saba (Sheba. His great grand daughter called Nakuti of Saba (Queen of Sheba) traveled abroad and married a prince from the house of Samba Ambarani and had a son with him. The name of the son was Maina wa Nakuti okhwa Silimani of the East. It is believed it is this Maina whom the Arabs called Ibn Malik and Ethiopians referred to as Menelik. But the people of East Africa refer to him as Maina. Maina ruled Saba for a long period before his kingdom was invaded by hostile Arabs forcing some of his people South West under the leadership of great descendant called Muntu Mkhulu. Muntu Mkhulu became the father of SabaII. It was Saba II who led people to Tabasya north of Lake Turkana.
Following repeated attacks from the Balana call them Borana or Galla and unfavourable weather conditions, and it was resolved to migrate south and east, to unsettled lands. Masaba the father of Bukusu and Kisu led the people to Embayi which was later to become Sirikwa or the fallen kingdom. It fell after the people disobeyed their God Khakaba and so he send a giant boulder from the sky which hit the land of Mbayi causing an earthquake followed by swarms of stinging insects spread allover. Then came epidemics and other calamities forcing the subjects of Sirikwa to scatter into different directiond. They dispersed and settled among the Kipsigis, the Nandi, the Samburu, the Marakwet, the Borana and even beyond. The main body is what headed south East and West under the banners of Basirikwa, Banabayi, Bakikayi, Baneala, Bamalaba and Bamwalie.[2]
Currently, the Bukusu mainly inhabit Bungoma, Trans Nzoia, Uasin Gishu, Kakamega and Lugari districts of Western Province of Kenya. The Bamasaba of Uganda are very closely related to the Babukusu, with many shared customs and closely related dialect. Previously, the Bukusu were referred to as the 'Kitosh' by the colonialists; this was a word derived from the Nandi and Kwavi who used the word derogatively describe the Babukusu. Kitosh means the terrible ones. they called them the terrible ones because the Bukusu warriors were ruthless and decisive in battlefields. Following vigorous campaigns by community their defenders, the name Kitosh was eventually substituted with Bukusu in the mid 1950s.[3] Traditional life
The Bukusu lived in fortified villages, and did not have a structure of central authority. The highest authority was the village headman, called Omukasa, who was usually elected by the men of the village. There were also healers and prophets who acquired great status because of their knowledge of tribal tradition, medicines, and religion. Elijah Masinde, a resistance leader and traditional medicine man, was revered as a healer in the early 1980s. Family
Bukusu family structure was traditionally modelled on the Luhya structure, it was and still is modelled on Bukusus culture itself. Families were usually polygamous, with the first wife accorded a special status among her co-wives. Society was entirely patrilineal: women were not present only as child-bearers but also as an indication of status. In addition, being polygamous meant more hands to work the fields, which was an advantage in a society founded on agriculture.
Children inherited the clan of their father, and were not allowed to marry spouses from either their own clan, or their mother's clan. The first son of the first wife was usually the main heir to his father, and he had a special name denoting this status: Simakulu. At birth, children were usually named after grandparents or famous people, or after the weather. Male and female names were different: male names frequently began with 'W', while female names usually began with 'N'. Thus, for example, a boy born during a famine would be named 'Wanjala', while a girl would be named 'Nanjala'. Both names share the same root word, 'njala', from 'eNjala', the Bukusu word for hunger. Initiation
The Bukusu practised (and still practise) male circumcision. It is thought that they adopted the practice from contact with the Kalenjin at Mount Elgon. Others argue, however, that the presence of the practice in the other Luhya tribes indicates an earlier adoption, before the Bukusu settled at Mount Elgon.
In ceremonies that were spaced about two years apart, young boys of a particular age (usually about 15 years of age) would, on getting the go-ahead from their parents, invite relatives and friends to their initiation.
The initiation was a public event, witnessed by all. Going through the operation without showing any sign of pain was (and still is) thought to be an indicator of bravery. Once circumcised, an initiate became a member of an age-group.
There are eight age-groups (Bakolongolo, Bakikwameti, Bakananachi, Bakinyikewi, Banyange, Bamaina, Bachuma, Basawa), forming a cyclical system, with each age-group lasting for 10 years apart from Bachuma which lasted for 14 years from 1872 - 1886. The reason for this was the tradition that there was an old man of the age group of Basawa from the previous cycle who was still alive and he was not meant to live and see the next Basawa Eventually the old man died in 1884 and the Basawa ensued the next initiation period in 1888. It was then agreed to avoid such delays, that any man who lives long enough to appear reaching the second cycle would be killed. This has been the tradition since then. Once the last age-group has been reached, the first is restarted, and so on. For example, the Bachuma age-group lasted from 1872 to 1886: every Bukusu circumcised within this period (that is, in 1872 through to 1886) belongs to that age-group. In 1888, the Basawa age group began, and lasted until 1898. Each age group is represented once every century.
Female circumcision (clitoridectomy) is not a Bukusu practice. However, some clans are said to have practiced it. This is especially the case around Mount Elgon, where the neighbouring Kalenjin tribes also practice a form of female circumcision.
Although circumcision was universal among the Bukusu, the form of the ceremony varied according to the clan. In particular, the festivities and ceremonies accompanying the final stage of initiation, when the now-healed initiates came out of seclusion to rejoin their families as 'men', were specific to clans, and have been handed down largely intact to the present day.[4] Marriage
Young boys got married at about the age of 18-20, while girls got married at about the age of 16. There were two types of first-time marriage: arranged marriages and enforced eloping. If a young man came from a well-to-do family, he would ask his sisters to find a girl for him to marry. The ability of a potential wife to cook well, bear children and work in the fields were the main attractions in a girl. Once a girl was identified, an emissary was sent to her parents to ask for her hand. The girl had no say whatsoever in the whole matter: bride price would be discussed, and then once it was paid she would be sent off to live with her new husband. This form of marriage is still common in traditional households today.
In some cases, however, the boy would be from a poor family and could not afford to pay the likely bride-price. Traditional society allowed such boys to abduct the girls they intended to marry. (The girl had to present an opportunity to be 'abducted', so her cooperation was essential.) The couple would then leave their home to live with a far-off relative for a while, until the boy acquired enough wealth to pay the original bride price, as well as a fine, to the parents of the girl. This practice has since died out.
The Bukusu highly approve of intermarriages between themselves and BaMasaaba. This is because they have quite a number of similarities in their codes of conduct, marriage customs, circumcision traditions and even folklore. Among the most famous of Bukusu marriage customs is the immense respect accorded one's in-laws. A lady, for example, treats her father-in-law with a lot of deference and respect, and they are not allowed to make physical contact in any way. The same is true of a man and his mother-in-law.
In a marriage, duties were strictly segregated. Housework and agricultural duties were done by the women and the children. The older boys looked after cattle. Young, newly married boys formed the community's warriors, while middle-aged men did nothing, mainly. Older men formed the village's council of elders, and resolved disputes. Punishment for crimes was usually on an-eye-for-an-eye basis, while petty crimes like theft were punished by the perperators being expelled from the village, and their property confiscated and redistributed to the wronged party.
Cattle were very important: they were the main means of exchange, alongside cowrie shells (chisimbi). Most values, from the beauty of a girl to the price of a field of land, were expressed in terms of head of cattle. Possessing cattle wealth and prosperous agriculture, the Bukusu were sometimes not only admired but also envied by neighboring communities. Occasionally intermarriages used to take place between them and the other communities. It was common practice for Kalenjin neighbors to give Bukusu their sons to look after their herds of cattle. In times of famine, which are said to have been frequent amongst their Kalenjin neighbors, the latter used to even sell their children to Bukusu. Bukusu also used to send their own young boys to grow up with Kalenjin or Maasai families, in some cases for espionage purposes.[5] Death
Being sedentary pastoralists, they had time to care for their sick and bury their dead. A sick person was looked after until he recuperated or died. When a person died, he was buried in a grave with a warrior's weapons if he was an elder. Several functions were performed during and after the funeral ceremony. Ordinarily, burial pits ranged from 3–4 feet in depth, much shallower than today's. With people buried facing East, the direction in which the sun rises. There are 2 known clans amongst the Bukusu who bury their people in sitting position to this very day.
Sometimes wild animals like hyenas exhumed corpses from graves and ate them. Should such an incident occur, people looked for the presumed skull of the desecrated body, and when they found it, they hung it in a leafy tree. When the family of the deceased migrated, they brewed beer (kamalwa ke khuukhalanga) for the ceremony of transferring the skull with them to the new home or settlement. An old woman was entrusted with the responsibility of conveying the skull to the new site. Burial of the dead was thus, to say the least, ingrained in the Bukusu traditions.[6]
by-the way SABAEANS were ancestors of maasai,also known as SEBA,SABA by bantus or SEBENIC by kalenjin.The SABAOT subtribe of kalenjin were originally maasai mercineries hired by kalenjin pharaohs to fight against assyrian invasion of egypt,heredotus called them SEBENITUS,british colonialist of kenya renamed them ELGON MAASAI.
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
Don't confuse SEBA(maasai) and SHEBA(oromo),the bible in psalms 72:10 and Genesis 10:7 makes a clear distiction between SHEBA and SEBA.Whats interesting is that the bible also states that the kalenjin are the nilotic ancestors of oromo and somali.The hebrews called the kalenjin people RAAMAH,but they were known to the egyptians as REMETCH(rMT in heiroglyphic).during the reign of pharaoh smekhare some kalenjin soldiers who had settled in Accad,could have intermarried with west asian women resulting to somalis and oromo,that explains why somalis and oromo use kalenjin upper numerals(9-1000),but have adopted semitic lower numerals(1-8),also their culture is similar to kalenjin,minus the semitic element e.g reading of the bowels after slaughtering a cow,to interprate the future,also kalenjin surnames like KOROS,TALAM,SALAT is also found in somali and oromo,all circumcise like kalenjin(pharaonic type III circumcision),all call rain ROP,palm tree SOSIOT just like kalenjin,kalenjin god of vengence ILLAT is the somali ILLAY and arabic ALLAH.according to genesis 10:7;
quote:The sons of Cush were Seba and Havilah and Sabtah and Raamah and Sabteca; and the sons of Raamah were Sheba and Dedan.…
THE SO-CALLED AFRO-ASIATIC CUSHITES WERE BASICALLY NILOTES WHO INTERMARRIED WITH SEMITES This intermarriage occurred in ancient accad.This is evident,from the way most cushites have adopted semitic lower numerals(1-8) in their numbers,while maintaining their former nilotic upper numerals(9-1000). 4 KALENJIN SUBTRIBES NUMERALS
MAASAI LOWER NUMERALS 1) obo 2) aare 3) okuni 4) oonguan 5) imiet 6) Ile 7) oopishana 8) isiet 9) oondo 10) tomon
KALENJIN-OROMO UPPER NUMERALS(9-1000). As you will see all Oromo lower numerals (1-8),are semitic in origin.but all the upper numerals(9-1000) of Oromo are nilotic Kalenjin in origin.They all include kalenjin lower numerals. KALENJIN-OROMO UPPER NUMERALS Sakal/sogool=Sakal - 9 Taman=Kudhan - 10 Taman ak agenge - 11 : Tiptem=digdem - 20 Tiptem ak agenge - 21 : Sosom -soddoma 30 Sosom ak agenge -31 : Artam - Afurtama40 Artam ak agenge - 41 : Konom - Shantama50 Konom ak agenge - 51 : Tamanwogik Lo - 60 Tamanwogik Lo ak agenge - 61 : Tamanwogik tisap - 70 Tamanwogik tisap ak agenge - 71 : ... sisiit - 80 ... sisiit ak agenge - 81 : ... sogool -sogoltama 90 ... sogool ak agenge - 91 : bogol - Bogol 100 bogol ak agenge 101 : bogol aeng' - 200 : bogol somok - 300 MAASAI UPPER NUMERALS MAINTAINED BY SOMALI AND OROMO. This influence occured when proto-axumite/proto-maasai ANCIENT SABAEANS colonised Yemen and the whole of southern arabia.The Sabaeans Nilotic maa-ancestors colonised the Nilo-semitic SHEBA(oromo),OPHIR(afar),DEDAN(somalis) and HAVILLAH(Tigray & Tigrinya).This colonisation occured when these tribes were still living in Yemen and south arabia. OROMO-SOMALI-MAASAI NUMERALS. Tomon 10 Tomon o obo 11 Tomon o aare 12 Tomon o okuni 13 Tomon o oofigwan14 Tomon o nabo 11 Tomon o are 12 Tomon o uni 13 Tomon o ofigwan 14 Tomon o imyet 15 Tomon o ille 16 Tomon o oopishana 17 Tomon oo naapishana 18 Tomon o isyet 19 Tomon o oudo Tomon oo naudo 20 Tigitam 20 Tigit&m o obo TigitSm o nabo 21 Osom or 'N-domoni uni 23 Artam or 'N-domoni oSgwan24 Onom or 'N-domoni 'myet 25 Onom oo tomon or 'N-domoni 'lie 26 Onom oo tigitam or 'N-domoni naapishana 27 Onom oo 'n-domoni uni or 'N-domoni 'eyet 28 Onom o artain or 'N-domoni naudo 29
Somalis and oromo have adopted semitic lower numerals but have maintained their nilotic upper numerals.maasai and kalenjin have maintained both their nilotic upper and lower numerals.
BIBLICAL EVIDENCE(Genesis 10:6,7) ; SONS OF HAM; 1)CUSH/KUSH=NILOTES(NILO-SAHARAN) 2)MIZRAIMS=PYGMIES & WEST AFRICANS(Niger congo A) 3)PHUT=KHOISAN 4)CANAAN=BANTUS(Niger congo B)
Actually these are also the four main languages spoken in Africa.Considering the fact Afro-asiatic e.g Chadic,Amazigh,Cushitic are NILOTIC CONTINUITY.a proven fact.
SONS OF KUSH(NILOTES) 1)SEBA=Maa-speakers(sabaeans) e.g maasai,samburu,lotuko group 2)HAVILLAH=Tigray and Tigrinya group 3)SABTAH=Nuer,dinka,shilluk,anuak,luo peoples group 4)RAAMAH=Kalenjin,datooga & Omotic group. 5)SABTECHA=Nuba,Turkana,karamajong,Toposa group. 6)NIMROD=Dravidians.
SONS OF RAAMAH(proto kalenjin rmT) 1)SHEBA=Oromo 2)DEDAN=Somali.
DNA EVIDENCE The oldest Y E3b clades are found in NILOTES,while the younger clades are found in afro-asiatic cushites e.g OLDER E3B CLADES NILOTIC; E-M215 and E-M35(maasai),E-V68 in 'nilotic from kenya'(kalenjin)AND FUR,E-V12(NUER),E-M78*(NUBA&MASALLIT),E-M293(DATOGA) YOUNGER E3B CLADES CUSHITIC E-V22(SOMALIS),E-V32(OROMO)
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
Eurocentric scholars in desperate attempt to paint the SABAEANS as semitic,have claimed all the civilisation brought to yemen by the nilo-semitic HIMYARITES known as HAVILLAH in bible.these Himyarites migrated from regions near TIGRIS river in Iranian plateau to yemen then to Eritrea and Ethiopia and today are known as TIGRAY or TIGRINYA people,they together with AGAW who initially were oromo clan started AKSUMITE EMPIRE,they displaced the proto-maasai(sabaeans) who lived there,near afar region(ophir) of eritrea and ethiopia. The so-called 'Sabaean moon god' is actually TIGRAY Moon god Ilmukah or Ilumguh,worshiped by TIGRINYA and TIGRAY before they introduction of christianity to axum 2000 years ago.The moon goddess Astarte, or Ashtart, whom they called Astar, which means "womb." The giver and destroyer of life,was also worshiped by TIGRAY,thats why her temple is also found in tigray region of ethiopia. Astar was Queen of Heaven and Mother of all Deities. Arriving from heaven as a ball of fire, and accompanied by a lioness, she was pictured with horns, and a disc of the sun above her forehead. Oromo(sheba)and sabaeans(maasai)worshiped the sun ENKAI(ENKI)by maasai and WAAQA by oromo. In the Kebra Negast, the Queen tells Solomon,
"We worship the sun...for he cooketh our food, and moreoever he illumineth the darkness, and removeth fear; we call him 'our King,' and we call him 'our Creator'....And there are others among our subjects.... some worship stones, and some worship trees, and some worship carved figures, and some worship images of gold and silver."(2) The queen of SHEBA was an Oromo woman.SHEBA was OROMIA which initially was located in yemen but they entered ethiopia during the Assyrian expansion period.The somalis(dedan)entered the horn during the persian expansion era,that is there are still somali clans left behind in yemen even today. The so-called ARABIAN temple at MARIB was bult by Tigray HIMYARITES before they later relocated to eritrea escaping persian expansion in yemen.in eritrea they displaced afar(ophir),maasai(seba)and oromo(sheba). Geez script was a product of TIGRAY SCRIPT aka SOUTH ARABIAN/SABAEAN and AMHARA(HATTU/HITTITE)SCRIPT brought by amhara migrating from libya and meroe as SEA-PEOPLE.These amhara hittites now coptic christians came and settled in ethiopia SHOA region claiming descent from solomon.They started the SOLOMONID DYNASTY of ethiopia and changed the kingdom name to ABSYNIA.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: The so-called ARABIAN temple at MARIB was bult by Tigray HIMYARITES before they later relocated to eritrea escaping persian expansion in yemen.in eritrea they displaced afar(ophir),maasai(seba)and oromo(sheba). Geez script was a product of TIGRAY SCRIPT aka SOUTH ARABIAN/SABAEAN and AMHARA(HATTU/HITTITE)SCRIPT brought by amhara migrating from libya and meroe as SEA-PEOPLE.These amhara hittites now coptic christians came and settled in ethiopia SHOA region claiming descent from solomon.They started the SOLOMONID DYNASTY of ethiopia and changed the kingdom name to ABSYNIA.
You are right about the Sabaeans coming from modern Ethiopia but everything else is wrong. You claim you got this information from the Bible, but none of this is from the Bible it is all from your imagination.
The Amhara were not Sea People or Hittites. The Coptic people are probably Egyptians who mixed with Sea People, Greeks and other invading groups, not Hittites. The Hittites did not have their own writing they used cuneiform. Moreover, the Hittites, used a Kushite language.
The first recorded Indo-European language is Hittite. Many researchers get the Hittites (Nesa) mixed up with the originalKushite or Black/African settlers of Anatolia called Hatti according to Steiner “.[T]his discrepancy is either totally neglected and more or less skillfully veiled, or it is explained by the assumption that the Hittites when conquering the country of Hatti adjusted themselves to the Hattians adopting their personal names and worshipping their gods, out of reverence for a higher culture” .
Neshili, was probably spoken by the Hatti, not the IE Hittite. Yet, this language is classified as an IE langauge. Researchers maintain that the Hatti spoke 'Hattili' or Khattili “language of the Hatti”, and the IE Hittites spoke "Neshumnili"/ Neshili . Researchers maintain that only 10% of the terms in Neshumnili is IE. This supports the view that Nesumnili may have been a lingua franca. It is clear that the Anatolians spoke many languages including:Palaic, Hatti, Luwian and Hurrian, but the people as you know mainly wrote their writings in Neshumnili. The first people to use this system as the language of the royal chancery were Hatti Itamar Singer makes it clear that the Hittites adopted the language of the Hatti . Steiner wrote that, " In the complex linguistic situation of Central Anatolia, in the 2nd Millennium B.C. with at least three, but probably more different languages being spoken within the same area there must have been the need for a language of communication or lingua franca [i.e., Neshumnili), whenever commercial transactions or political enterprises were undertaken on a larger scale" .
The language of the Hittites was more than likely a lingua franca, with Hattic, as its base. In Western Anatolia many languages were spoken including Hattic, Palaic, Luwian and Hurrian used Nesa as a lingua franca For example, the king of Arzawa, asked the Egyptian in the Amarna Letters, to write them back in Nesumnili rather than Egyptian .
Steiner notes that “In the complex linguistic situation of Central Anatolia in the 2nd Millennium B.C., with at least three, but probably more different languages being spoken within the same area there must have been the need for a language of communication or lingua franca whenever commercial transaction or political enterprises were undertaken on a larger scale” . This led Steiner to conclude that “moreover the structure of Hittite easily allowed one to integrate not only proper names, but also nouns of other languages into the morphological system. Indeed, it is a well known fact the vocabulary of Hittite is strongly interspersed with lexemes from other languages, which is a phenomenon typical of a “lingua franca” .
Also the Persians did not interact with the Hittite.
You need to study history.
.
.
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
quote: The first recorded Indo-European language is Hittite.
You are all over the place clyde,the bible in genesis 10,makes it clear the hittites are descendants of canaan(bantus),descandants of HAM(ancestor of all africans).these bantu hittites mixed with semitic elamites,and were in league with them,that is why they were hated nby egyptians.
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
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quote: Also the Persians did not interact with the Hittite.
You need to study history.
i never said that clyde. but i say this amhara are canaanite bantu hittites who mixed with Elamites,jews,syrians,and later in ethiopia they mixed with maasai,tigray and oromo. BANTU DNA OF AMHARA Y DNA E-M329 a descendant of E-V38,both E-M329 and E-M2 are descendants E-V38. The bible makes it clear,hittites are descended from canaan who is descendend from HAM(father of all africans). AMHARA BANTU PHENOTYPE EVER wondered why amhara are usually shorter,broader and have kinky hair more than other ethiopians,except the nilotes?their extreme lightskin is as result of semitic mixture,mostly jewish and elamite.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA:
quote: The first recorded Indo-European language is Hittite.
You are all over the place clyde,the bible in genesis 10,makes it clear the hittites are descendants of canaan(bantus),descandants of HAM(ancestor of all africans).these bantu hittites mixed with semitic elamites,and were in league with them,that is why they were hated nby egyptians.
I am not all over the place. I am talking about history. If you knew history you would know that the Bible is talking about the Hattic people of Mesopotamia, who were Kushites. The Hittites were Indo-European speaking people. The Hittites adopted the hattic civilization and passed it off as their own.
There is nothing in the Bible that identifies the Hamites as Bantu. This is your own conjecture.
Ham is not the ancestor of all Blacks. The Khoisan, Pygmies and etc., existed long before the flood in 6kya. The Hamites were just a group of Blacks who formed the River Valley civilizations.
It is find to use the Bible as a source but you also need a background in history and linguistics to verify your finding. For example, you claim the Elamites were Semitic people. The Elamite language is not Semitic. Elamite is related to the Dravidian, Niger-Congo languages.
You have assumed that since the people of Canaan spoke a Semitic language, the Elamites probably also spoke a Semitic language, which they did not. If you understood that at the base of Semitic was an African root word you would have understood how the Elamites could speak a non-Semitic language and still be related to the Canaanites. Moreover, as we know the Canaanite culture was a copy of Egyptian culture.
Elamite
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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: .
quote: Also the Persians did not interact with the Hittite.
You need to study history.
i never said that clyde. but i say this amhara are canaanite bantu hittites who mixed with Elamites,jews,syrians,and later in ethiopia they mixed with maasai,tigray and oromo.
Yes you did. Here is what you wrote
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: The so-called ARABIAN temple at MARIB was bult by Tigray HIMYARITES before they later relocated to eritrea escaping persian expansion in yemen.in eritrea they displaced afar(ophir),maasai(seba)and oromo(sheba). Geez script was a product of TIGRAY SCRIPT aka SOUTH ARABIAN/SABAEAN and AMHARA(HATTU/HITTITE)SCRIPT brought by amhara migrating from libya and meroe as SEA-PEOPLE.These amhara hittites now coptic christians came and settled in ethiopia SHOA region claiming descent from solomon.They started the SOLOMONID DYNASTY of ethiopia and changed the kingdom name to ABSYNIA.
In the above passage you associate the Persians with your so-called " amhara-hittites".
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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
Hyksos had personal names of Semitic origins
It's easy to see Hyksos were from foreign origin since they carry names of Semitic origins. Ancient Egyptians themselves considered them foreign rulers (Aamu/West Asians) and were later expelled after the 18th Dynasty victory over them.
Posted by LEDAMA (Member # 21677) on :
@ amun ra the ultimate-again quoting eurocentric scholars...you people need help.. [QUOTE4 Icon 1 posted 13 September, 2014 09:25 AM Profile for Clyde Winters Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: .
quote: Also the Persians did not interact with the Hittite.
You need to study history.
i never said that clyde. but i say this amhara are canaanite bantu hittites who mixed with Elamites,jews,syrians,and later in ethiopia they mixed with maasai,tigray and oromo.
Yes you did. Here is what you wrote
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: The so-called ARABIAN temple at MARIB was bult by Tigray HIMYARITES before they later relocated to eritrea escaping persian expansion in yemen.in eritrea they displaced afar(ophir),maasai(seba)and oromo(sheba). Geez script was a product of TIGRAY SCRIPT aka SOUTH ARABIAN/SABAEAN and AMHARA(HATTU/HITTITE)SCRIPT brought by amhara migrating from libya and meroe as SEA-PEOPLE.These amhara hittites now coptic christians came and settled in ethiopia SHOA region claiming descent from solomon.They started the SOLOMONID DYNASTY of ethiopia and changed the kingdom name to ABSYNIA.
In the above passage you associate the Persians with your so-called " amhara-hittites".
. [/QUOTE] do you even try to understand my posts?,i have associated tigray migration from yemen with persian migration.
quote:You have assumed that since the people of Canaan spoke a Semitic language, the Elamites probably also spoke a Semitic language, which they did not. If you understood that at the base of Semitic was an African root word you would have understood how the Elamites could speak a non-Semitic language and still be related to the Canaanites. Moreover, as we know the Canaanite culture was a copy of Egyptian culture.
The people of canaan were bantus,so they spoke bantu language,except hittites who were bantus mixed with semites spoke semitic,that is why egyptians considered them foreigners.
quote:The Elamite language is not Semitic. Elamite is related to the Dravidian, Niger-Congo languages.
The bible says elamites were semitic people,SEMITIC means descended from SHEM SON OF NOAH. Genesis 10:22,
quote:The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: @ amun ra the ultimate
Since Ancient Egyptians themselves considered them foreign rulers and eventually expelled them from their territory. I'm on pretty safe ground here. Semitic names are indeed a dead giveaway of their Aamu origin.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by LEDAMA: do you even try to understand my posts?,i have associated tigray migration from yemen with persian migration.
I try to understand what you write but it lacks historical foundations. For example, you claim the Canaanites spoke a Bantu language, if you read the inscriptions they are not in Bantu, they are in an aspect of Semitic.
You just don't get it. Many people use material from Egyptsearch to debate Eurocentrists. We can not allow you to post this misinformation without question.
I don't want people to take what you write and try to publish it elsewhere as fact. If they did so people would use it to claim Afrocentrists are teaching pure BS. I am trying to send you toward actual reliable and valid research so you can refine your work and give it more support.
You claim to be a warrior for truth and fight the Eurocentrists. But your identification of Biblical populations is based on Eurocentrist teachings. The only change in the identification of these people in your research is that you make them, Kalinjen, Amhara and Bantu.
Another example is your identification of the Shemites. Europeans teach that the Shemites spoke Semitic languages. The Bible does not say what language they spoke it only says:
quote:LEDAMA
The bible says elamites were semitic people,SEMITIC means descended from SHEM SON OF NOAH.
Genesis 10:22, The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.
. If you would have took the time to find out what language the Elamites spoke you would have known this was not true. As a result, when you claim that the Bible claimed the Elamites spoke a Semitic language as fact, you are deceiving people the Bible only says Elamites were the son of Shem. Europeans claim the children of Shem. Since you worship Europeans you assumed this had to be true
These mistakes would not be made if you had read the research of scholars like DuBois, John Jackson and J.A. Rogers. Read real history and then you will have firmer ground to stand on.
You claim to be a linguist, yet you don't even know the Elamite and Canaanite people spoke different languages. Since I know this is patently false, I will correct you if need be.
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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
LEDAMA the Elamites were not Semitic speaking people.
The ancients were sure the Kushites had founded the Elamite civilization. According to Strabo, the Roman geographer the first Elamite colony of Susa, was founded by Tithonus, a King of Kush, and father of Memnon. Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia. Elam The most important Kushite colony in Iran was Elam. The Elamites like other Africans practiced the custom of matrilineal descent.
The history of Elam is usually divided into three periods the Kings of Awan, Kings of Simashki and the Sukkalmah period. For over 300 years the Elamite Kings of Awan ruled Elam, and much of Mesopotamia.Much of this period is unknown. During the 3rd Millennium B.C., the Elamites and Su people (a term used for mountain people in the Western Zagros) sacked Ur. The King of the Dynasty of Simaskhi, led to Elamite rule in Sumer. The first king of the Simashki Dynasty was Girnamme.
In Sumer, the Elamites contributed nuch to Sumerian civilization. The Elamite Kings of Sumer were called the Kings of Kish.
After a Sumerian King of Kish pushed the Elamites out of Mesopotamia, Elam went into a period of chaos until around 2500 B.C., when King Peli became the ruler of Elam. After Peli, there were six other Elamite Kings until Elam was conquered by Sargon of Akkad.
Before the Sukkalmah period (c.1900-1500 B.C.) much of what we know about Elam comes from the Akkadian sources. This period is called the Sukkalmah period, because the rulers of Elam were called Sukkalmah ‘grand regent”. The Elamite title for king ws sunkir.
During the Sukkahmah Dynasty there was a tripartite system of rule. The Susa text indicate that there was a senior ruler called sukkalmah ‘grand regent’ of Elam and Shimashki, he was usually the brother of the sukkahmah, and a junior co-regent, entitled sukkal of Susa. This nephew was usually from the maternal side of the King’s family. Thus the sukkal of Susa was often called the ruhusak ‘sister’s son’
The first rulers of the Sukkamah period was Eabarat (=Eparti). He was followed by the ruhusak Addahushu, the “sukkal and magustrate of the people of Susa”. He is known mostly for his building of several temples and the erection of his “justic stele” outlining the laws of Elam .
The Elamites/Old Persians were probably descendants of the Mande people. This is obvious in the language and names of the Elamite Kings. I hope you remember the book Roots, the main character Kunte Kinte. His name is interesting because we have the following ruler during the Sukkalmah Dynasty: Kutur-Nahhunte I (c. 1752) who conquered southern Babylonia The name Kutur Nahhunte, would correspond to a popular Mande name Kunte among the Mande speaking people. The Elamite name Peli, is also popular among the Mande, in the form of Pe, this name was also common among the Olmec people of ancient Mexico.
It should also be noted that the Mande term for people is Si, this corresponds to the word Su, used to designate the mountain people of Elam. The Elamite term Su would correspond to the Mande termSi-u (the /u/ is the plural suffix in the Mande language).
By the 2nd Millennium B.C., a new more aggressive dynasty appeared in Elam. The Kings of this Dynasty called themselves ‘divine messenger, father and king’ of Susa and Anzan. One of the rulers of this Dynasty was Shutruk-Nahhunte. Shutruk-Nahhunte, like Kutur invaded Mesopotamia and took Babylon around 1160B.C.
After Kutur took Babylon, the Elamites ruled Babylon until Hammurabi defeated the Elamite King Rin-Sin. Later the Elamites were driven from Larsa and other Sumerian cities back to the Susiana plains. .
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The Elamites belonged to the Maa Confederation. The Maa Confederation included the Mande, the Dravidians, Elamites and Sumerians to name a few of the tribes. The Niger Congo languages are related to the Elamite and Sumerian languages.
K.P. Arvaanan (1976) has noted that there are ten common elements shared by BA languages and the Dr. group. They are (1) simple set of five basic vowels with short-long consonants;(2) vowel harmony; (3) absence of initial clusters of consonants; (4) abundance of geminated consonants; (5) distinction of inclusive and exclusive pronouns in first person plural; (6) absence of degrees of comparison for adjectives and adverbs as distinct morphological categories; (7) consonant alternation on nominal increments noticed by different classes; (8)distinction of completed action among verbal paradigms as against specific tense distinction;(9) two separate sets of paradigms for declarative and negative forms of verbs; and (l0) use of reduplication for emphasis.
In the Dravidian, Egyptian, Elamite, Manding and Dravidian languages words are formed by adding an affix to a radical. In this section we will discuss certain aspects of shared ProtoSaharan morphology.
In these languages suffixes are usually used to create words. These suffixes can be a single consonant (C) or vowel (V), or a monosyllabic form (CV). The most common suffix in Dravidian, Egyptian, Elamite, Manding and Sumerian are the postfixes -ki, -ka and -ta , which are used to denote clans, nationality, lands and countries .
PLURAL
In the Proto-Saharan languages the plural is formed by adding -u,-w,-ba, -pa and -lu.In Egyptian, the -w suffix is used to form the plural. In the Dravidian (Dr.) . languages the plural if formed by -lu, especially in Telugu. In the Manding (M) group, and other African languages we find -lu or -u (-w), e.g., M. mogo 'husband,(pl.) mogo-lu 'husbands'; Telugu magaadu 'husband , man', (pl.) magaalu 'husbands'.
In many Black African languages ba means 'abundance, many'. In Elamite pa or fa is used to make plural numbers, e.g., ko-fa inna 'of the Kings', Bapitu fa-pa "to the Babylonians". The use of -pa, by the Elamites corresponds to the Manding use of the -ba suffix , which is joined to nouns to denote the idea of greatness, physical or moral e.g., na-folo 'good,rich' , no-folo-ba 'great fortune'; and so-kalo 'piece', so-kala-ba 'considerable quarter of a village'.
NEGATIVE
In Black African languages including Egyptian the -n, is used to show negation. In Egyptian we often find -nn, e.g., nn wn 'there is nothing'. In Elamite the negative is formed by an uninflected nominal derivative in -n (active participle), e.g., ink 'I not", inr 'he not' and ani 'not'. This suffix is analogous to the M. negative suffix -na, employed as a suffix to -ka, e.g., ka na ku na tara so "I did not say I was going to the house" .
In Tamil the negative verbal participle is formed by suffixing a-mal or a-mei, e.g., sey (y)-a-mal 'without stopping'. The Tamil suffix -mei is also used as a termination for abstract nouns.
The negative suffix in Manding is -na, which is proceeded by ka and nt'i, e.g., kalu mba-nt'i. In Sumerian the negation of the verb is expressed by the prefixes nu- or la-, e.g., nu-zu "not to know", la-gin "not to fix" and nu-dug "not good. The optative mood are negatived by the element na,na-ma-pad "she may not".
PARTICLES
In Elamite personal nouns are formed by adding -ra, e.g., Kellira 'commander', kutira 'bearer'. This relates to the Manding suffix of the past and present participle -ra, this particle is used to make verbs passive or active, e.g., kyi 'send', kyi-ra 'messenger', gyi (ji) 'dry up', gyi-ra 'arid'.
In Sumerian the dative is expressed by the suffix -ra, which may appear in the form of -ar, -ir , and -ur, e.g., ma-ra 'to me', lugal-e-a-ra ' to the owner of the house'. This parallels the Manding locative suffix -ra, and -la , which can represent 'to,or, for, in ', e.g., tu-ra 'in the forest'.
The Elamite indefinite article is -ra, e.g., Parsar-ra 'a Persian', Afartu-ra 'an Elamite'. This corresponds to the Manding locative suffix -ra, e.g., Ton-ra 'land of Ton'.
I call the Dravidian, Sumerian, Elamite and Mande the Proto-Saharan languages. The Proto-Saharan languages share the present participle -tu/-to. In Telugu (Tel.),the suffix -tu , is used as the present participle while in the Manding languages -to has the same function e.g., Tel. chestu 'made', M.tege 'to cut', tege-to 'cutting'.
The active participle in Elamite is -n, e.g., talu-n 'writing', or hali-n 'toiling'. This corresponds to the Manding -ni and -li elements e.g., sa 'buy', sanni 'buying', or du-mu 'eat', dumu-ni 'eating'. This -n, active participle is found in many other Black African languages including Egyptian.
The use of the -ka element is frequently found in the formation of Dravidian, Elamite, Egyptian, Manding and Sumerian languages. In Egyptian as outlined by Cheikh Anta Diop, in Nouvelles Recherches Sur l' Egyptien Ancien et Langues Negro-Africaines Modernes (pp.55-57), he outlines the use of /k/ and /t/ , to form agent nouns. In Parente genetique de l'Egyptien Pharonique et des langues Negro-Africaines (p.18), Diop explains the evolution of the -ky, and -kt particles.
In Elamite the passive participle is formed by -ka, e.g., hulta-ka 'done', turu-ka 'said'. This corresponds to the Manding -ka 'make, do',e.g., nyine 'see', nyini-ka 'interogate'.
In the Dravidian and Manding languages -ka, is used to represent the verb 'to be', as well as the subjunctive. For example in Manding languages ka, is a particle of different values, which corresponds to -kaa, the infinitive element in Telugu of the verb ag-uta 'to become'. In Tamil this element appears as aaga. For example, in Manding we have a ka-nye 'it's good'; and in Telugu kaa valenu 'it is necessary'. The same radical -ka represents the optative form in Telugu, e.g., aapani mundara kani 'how is labor given first place?'
In the Dravidian languages the suffixes -ke, -ge and -ka are used as the primitive verb 'to be' or 'to do'. They are usually used with abstract nouns e.g., ol 'to reign', ol-ka 'domination'. This corresponds to the Manding verb 'to do' ke , which is often joined to -la to form derived nouns e.g., sene 'cultivate', sene-li ke-la 'cultivator'.
As you can see the Dravidian and Niger-Congo languages (e.g., Mande) are closely related.
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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
^^^It would be nice if we keep this thread about Nabta Playa. Maybe we can discuss the Ancient Egyptian ethnic groups and neighboring peoples in another thread like this one maybe (which I started) or some other thread.
Posted by Modman Ardo (Member # 1797) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^It would be nice if we keep this thread about Nabta Playa. Maybe we can discuss the Ancient Egyptian ethnic groups and neighboring peoples in another thread like this one maybe (which I started) or some other thread.
I can't move individual posts to another thread I can only move threads from one forum to another but I will do what I can to keep your thread on-topic if you request it.
I can delete posts but really don't want to, only if the thread broacher insists on it and the particular post is far and clearly off-topic.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^It would be nice if we keep this thread about Nabta Playa. Maybe we can discuss the Ancient Egyptian ethnic groups and neighboring peoples in another thread like this one maybe (which I started) or some other thread.
LOL. You're the one who originally went off-topic when you first discussed linguistics, Ounjougou, Hyksos, Semitic, and wavy -line pottery. There are only 4-5 post about Nabta.
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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^It would be nice if we keep this thread about Nabta Playa. Maybe we can discuss the Ancient Egyptian ethnic groups and neighboring peoples in another thread like this one maybe (which I started) or some other thread.
LOL. You're the one who originally went off-topic when you first discussed linguistics, Ounjougou, Hyksos, Semitic, and wavy -line pottery. There are only 4-5 post about Nabta.
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I did go off topic too. I was including myself in the statement. It's started ok, with subjects indirectly related to Nabta Playa, but now it's too far deep off topic.
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: You can comment on them as much as you want.
I know I can comment on them, I just find it odd you're the one who doesn't want to comment on them or take them into account considering you're the one who posted them in the first place...
As far as I know, the few other aDNA results are from late foreign dynasties (Greeks, Romans, Assyrians, etc) which we know is the period when large scale immigrations into Egypt from Europe and Western Asia started.
What you waiting on homey? more out there for you to find. As a top poster of ES how many times you gonna post maps Barb points and wavy line pottery?
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
^^^I'm not your "homey" and you're a stupid racist.
I can post about whatever I want. This thread is about the new scholarship on Nabta Playa, so I don't know why you posted that image beside off a kneejerk reaction coming out of nowhere.
Why do you have to come here and tell me this? You're an idiot.
Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
Here's what really hurt Beyoku:
Ancient Egypt - A child of Africa and the Green Sahara is a great title. It mirrors a bit Egypt and Nubia: Gifts of the Desert, but of course as highlighted in the book the Sahara at time period wasn't actually a desert. It is meant to highlight the fundamental aspect of the Green Sahara period and culture in the development and establishment of Ancient Egypt before the dynastic era. The Green Sahara era and culture lasted for many millennia (over 3000 years) and spanned a large area of Africa from the Atlantic Coast to the Nile Valley/Sudan (which we can see in the Wavy-line pottery maps posted above).
All of those things, and those not cited, were part of the Green Sahara era (wavy line pottery culture) and were fundamental in the development of the Ancient Egyptian kingdom and culture.
Posted by Modman Ardo (Member # 1797) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
you're a stupid racist.
You're an idiot.
Was that really necessary? You can't say t was retaliation. How does it help make your point?
You are free to sling ad hominems but wouldn't it be a nicer more inviting place without them?
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
Yea I'm stupid but a little over a year ago you were asking me for links to study the exact thing you act as if you are the expert on and have known for years...
What does that make you? "Nas designed your blue print who you kidding?"
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
:ledama SAYS: By credible scholarly evidence, assume you mean those written by white,pseudo-historians,egyptlogists,antropologist and archeologists?who for the last 200 years had been working day and night to rob africans off their history
Dude, you yoself quote white scholars when it suits you, so don;t try to play the "white scholar card" to duck around your failure to produce the evidence asked for. The very Wiki article you quote (which adds nothing to your claims) is filled with references to "white scholars." Again, all you have proffered to date is amateur blog or personal web site links, and assorted text that addresses things NOT at issue.
To the above you now throw in a "race card" as part of your "covering" strategy. No one is being fooled.
So again, what credible evidence do you have to prove that:
--Your Kalenjin founded the dynastic civilization of Egypt
--Ruled several dynasties and were pharaohs
What's taking you so long? You are pretty good at dubious "covering" tactics- including your new "race card" dodge, but short on actual data to support your shaky claims.
t was the Kalenjin pharaoh of 18th dynasty who forced these hyksos bantus out of egypt,some fled to libya(southern bantus e.g tutsi,ngoni and shona) and west africa(west african bantus),others up the nile towards MEROE,e.g the MERU people of kenya,known by the proto-kalenjin wasetian egyptians as TA-MERU(she of AMERU or AMORITES),other hyksos bantus went further south towards KUSH KERMA region and mixed with luos e.g bu-kusu(kush),ba-gisu(kush),baganda ,ba-kuria and mwila people from MAKURIA,in swahili and bantu a kuria person is known as MUKURIA,that means CANDACE(kandake) of makuria was probably a kuria woman. check out this bukusu oral history,
^^lol, dude if you are gonna troll (complete with "lower case" text so your post looks "different"), at least come with plausible game. ahahahhaha .. Yeah I know, you are trying to pass this off as what "the Afrocentrics believe".. Who do you think is being fooled? Can't you even keep your BS straight? Who are these mystical "hyksos bantu"?
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