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E1, E2 and E3 haplogroups: chronology
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MysterySolver: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol: Notice MS says he isn't *sure* what the point is, though he specifically used the term sub-sahara as if to somehow refute sahel.[/QUOTE]Let me educate you. I said I wasn't sure what the guy's point is, obviously because he pointed to the Sahara as the likely origin of E3, which he says that he figures, because that's where it was mainly found. As it turns out, he was wrong. Guess who comes in, to say that he was correct...none other than rasol. See: Habari says: [i]it's interesting to see that the [b]precursors[/b] of E3a and E3b are [b]mainly found in the Sahara corridor[/b], which could be an indication of the African dispersal through the Sahara…[/i] - Habari I asked: [i]These [b]precursors[/b] found in the Sahara are specifically designated by what?[/i] rasol interjects: The precursor of E3b and E3a is E3... [i]So yes, I [b]agree with the premise[/b] that the [b]sahara or sahel[/b] was a [b]likely ancient corridor for these lineages[/b], bearing in mind that at different times in history sahara desert scarsely exists, and that much of this area would be open savana.[/i] So, you see, rasol was putting words in Habari's mouth, for the guy mentioned the "Sahara", which was questioned, by way of this agreement, speaking of the "Sahara or Sahel" [which he repeats everywhere, until now of course] as though they were two indistinguishable entities. Habari then comes back with: [i]E3* carrier probably originated in Ethiopia where the frequency is the highest and [b]derived throughout the Sahara corridor[/b], the data might suggest that since it is found in the Sahel region as well...[/i] I follow it up with: [i]Are you suggesting that E3a and E3b derived in the Sahara? If so, elaborate... Which regions do you understand by "in the Sahel region"? [/i] rasol interjects again: [i]MS, since E3 is found in Ethiopia and Senegal, do you have and alternate theory as to how it reached both locations without crossing the Sahel/Sahara?[/i] Note again, the lack of distinction between "Sahara" and "Sahel". I cite my thesis, upon which Habari says: [i]That's a lot of information, thank you...can we exclude the Sahel/Sahara corridor as an area where E3 split into E3a and E3b based on that information?[/i] Rasol follows that up with: [i]What information specifically excludes sahara/sahel corridor as and area where E3 split to E3a and E3b?[/i] Consistent association of Sahara with Sahel. It is of note, that my thesis precisely argues for E3a and E3b splits in sub-Saharan Africa, to which rasol asks the other poster this question. Now, he wants the gullible to buy into the notion that he actually knew the distinction between the Sahel, which he now says is sub-Saharan Africa, and the Sahara. What rasol was trying to do, was to take the supposed 'split' of out of the realm of sub-Saharan Africa, and place it in the Sahara, which is why he kept using Sahara/Sahel as though they were two indiscriminate entities. The only problem with this undertaking, as rasol is finding out, is that it has no legs to stand on, intellectually speaking. Hence, his recent move to saying "Sahel" is "sub-Saharan", upon being given a good dose of reality that E3b arose in "sub-Saharan" Africa, by that Cruciani piece. The implications should have been clear: If E3b rose in sub-Saharan Africa, then it goes without saying, this is where E3 split into that marker. [QUOTE]rasol: In other words...he *understands the point of your remarks very well,* he understood it when he made his strawman argument to begin with.[/QUOTE]When you've brushed adequately on basic geography and the rudimentary rules of science, I'll be glad to discuss with you complex issues about your mind reading capabilities. [QUOTE]rasol: This is why I show him no patience and refuse to indulge his need for pointless cat fights. I value my time too much. Let's move on.[/QUOTE]In other words, use Habari's pointless statement and use as a cover to duck requests to produce counter-evidence to what you objected to. Undisguised copout. [QUOTE]rasol: We know that underived E3 is present in Senegal and Ethiopia. Yet [b]somehow populations carrying this lineage became separated[/b].[/QUOTE]As a matter of fact, yes. dummy, as you've been informed more than once now: One has the highest frequency, and is deemed to be the likely point of origin, while the other doesn't. [QUOTE]rasol: This is all E3a and E3b represents.[/QUOTE]You're making about much sense as a baby randomly scribbling on paper. [QUOTE]rasol: - the separation of two E3 populations who would later begin carrying descrete mutations E3a in the west central of Africa, and E3b from the SouthEast to NorthEast and spaning thru the North.[/QUOTE]What evidence do you have that E3 split into clades E3a and E3b in the Sahara? [QUOTE]rasol: The question is where did this separation occur?[ The sahara/sahel corridor is the obvious choice, because it provides a migration path where the parent lineage [E3] is found on both end points, and the earliest versions of the child lineages [E3a and E3b] are also found on the opposite ends.[/QUOTE]dummy, E3 is rare in the Sahara. How then can you latch onto the Sahara as the likely route, as though no other route exists? What is your archaeological and genetic susbtance behind this weird idea? I've provided one, counter to this claim, backed with those type of evidence that you have yet to address. [QUOTE]rasol: Morever the sahara/sahel corridor can also help explain the -cause- of the separation when you understand that migration paths open/and close east to west with the expanse and retraction of the desert.[/QUOTE]Well, obviously the rectraction and expansion has figured into the movement of populations back and forth. What does this have to do with the geographical origin of either E3, E3a or E3b? [/QB][/QUOTE]
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