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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Egmond Codfried: [QB] [b]SOME NOTES ON THE GARAMANTES IN GERMANY[/b] [IMG]http://wysinger.homestead.com/moor8.jpg[/IMG] http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_image.aspx?image=an22735.jpg&retpage=20442 [Bronze figurine of a Moorish cavalryman, Roman, probably 2nd or 3rd century AD London, England(*)] Source: http://www.blackdutch1.webs.com/ [b]BLACK DUTCH [/b] By Mike Nassau 3. Schwarze Deutsche or Black Germans, found along the Danube River in Austria and Germany, in the Black Forest and, to a lesser extent, along the Rhine River, have dark hair and eyes, unlike the fairer people both north and south of them. Their descendants in America may be called either Black Dutch or Black German. The origin of their dark coloration is ancient, from the Roman army in the third and fourth centuries, C.E. The Roman army of this time period was mostly made up of German mercenary soldiers, but along the German border, the Romans preferred to station non-Germans. The army on the Danube was largely drawn from Numidian and Nubian soldiers, especially Garamante Numidians. The Garamante (called Tubu now) were Black Africans from the central Sahara. Now the Tubu live in northern Chad, eastern Niger and southern Libya. They are not usually found north of Marzuk in Fezzan or Kufra in Cyrenaica now, but in Roman times they ranged north to the central coast of Libya and to Ghadames in southern Tunisia. As well as Garamante, there were some Iranic people stationed on this frontier, especially Sarmatians (called Ossets now) and Scythians (Ashkenazi in the Hebrew Bible) from southern Russia and the Ukraine (Ashkenaz, the old Hebrew for Scythia, has been used for Germany in modern Hebrew by Ashkenazic Jews trying to ingratiate themselves with Germans and Austrians or trying to hide their Khazar ancestry). These African and Iranic soldiers left many descendants who tend to have black, heavy hair and dark eyes even yet. Beethoven and Hitler are two famous examples of this group (Peanuts). It is interesting to imagine Hitler's reaction to someone telling him he probably got his heavy, black hair from Black African ancestry. Since this was so long ago, with population movement and inter-marriage, all Europeans must have some ancestry from these Black African soldiers. In sixty generations, a person could leave 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 descendants with just two children per person each generation so long as no descendants married each other. Obviously, after a time, many descendants will marry each other, but still it works out statistically that most people from that long ago who left descendants at all are ancestors of everyone in Europe today. The tendency for people to stay in their own community explains why we can see the effects along the Danube and in the Black Forest in the people with black hair and dark eyes but do not see it far away like Iceland. The concentration is far greater at the point of origin, but the dispersion radiates out to everywhere given enough time. ++++++++++++++++++++ Source: ODR.org Garamante in Germany...‏ From: Mike and Gloria Nassau (gnassau@bellsouth.net) You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe Sent: Sun 1/27/02 12:39 PM To: teutoni@hotmail.com Dear Bill Kreiner, Very interesting question. I don't know where I picked that up, likely partof theBlack American rewriting of history in the sixties ("Black Consciousness"movement). I put Garamantes and Roman in as search terms in Googlehttp://google.comand found a lot of things. See:http://www.ancienthistory.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/1024/news/35.html The foremost expert on the Garamantes in the Anglophone world appears to beDavid Mattingly, see:http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/data/indiv/area/idmes/MATTINGLY,David.htm There is an email address for him there. I guess we could ask him. The following references are from http://www.ucd.ie/~classics/africa.htm under "Military" : D.Cherry, Frontier and Society in Roman North Africa (1998) C.M.Daniels, The Garamantes of Southern Libya (1970) C.Daniels, The Frontiers: Africa. in: J.Wacher (ed), The Roman Empire(1987) E.W.B.Fentress, Numidia and the Roman Army. BAR Int. 53 (Oxford 1979) R.G.Goodchild, Le limes Tripolitanus. Journal of Roman Studies 40(1950)30-8. M.Janon, Remarques sur la frontière de Numidie.in: V.A.Maxfield, andM.J.Dobson, Roman Frontier Studies 1989 (1991) 482-484. Y. Le Bohec, La Troisième Légion Auguste (1989) Y. Le Bohec, Le auxilia (1992) B.D.Shaw, Soldiers and society: the army in Numidia (1983) M.Speidel, The Roman Army in North Africa. Journal of Roman Archaeology 5(1992) P.Trousset, Le camp de Gemellae sur le mimes de Numidie d'après les fouillesdu colonel Baradez (1947-1950). In: J.Fitz (ed), Limes. Akten des XI.Internationalen Limeskongresses (1977) 559-577. P.Trousset, Signification d'une frontière: nomades et sedentaires dans laszone du limes d'Afrique. In: W.S. Hanson, L.J.F.Keppie, Roman FrontierStudies 1979. BAR 71(iii) (1980) C.M.Wells, The problems of Desert Frontiers. Chairman's Notes on theSession. in: V.A.Maxfield, and M.J.Dobson, Roman Frontier Studies 1989(1991) 478-481. C.R.Whittaker, Frontiers of the Roman Empire. A Social and Economic Study(1997) esp. Chapters 1-3 The funny thing is that that has been out there since I published "Melungeons and Other Mestee Groups" (see:http://www.multiracial.com/readers/nassau.html ) in 1994. (search for Garamante). This is the version put on-line by the Multiracial Activist, which is the easiest to search, part of http://www.multiracial.com/issues/issues-melungeon.html No one else has ever questioned it. I would now question the predominance of Garamantes among the Numidian and Nubian (Black)soldiers of the Roman army. The Black presence on the German frontier of the Roman Empire I believe is real, though perhaps overstated. My wife is of Black German ancestry, all four of her grandparents came to America from Germany. She has black hair, brown eyes and lobeless ears, as well as a dark complection. Nassau is her maiden name, I took it when we married. I think the lobeless ears are almost absolute proof of Black African ancestry. I have naturally flat feet and keloid scars, both of which prove non-European ancestry, both likely from Black African ancestors. Mike >> A Touch Of Gray <teutoni> wrote:> > Hi Mr. Nassau:>> I recently came across a few articles posted by you regarding "Schwarze Deutsch" people. My ancestors come from the Black Forest region of Germany,and were referred to as "Schwarz." My father has a swarthy complexion, black hair, and dark eyes. He was born in a German section of Hungary, since his ancestors migrated from the Black Forest to what is now Hungary during the 1700s. To my knowledge, they only interacted with other Germans while intheir new home.>> Your article is the first place I have ever seen mentioned anything about black troops having been stationed in this region and along the Danube River during Roman times. I was totally unaware of the Garamantes' presence there and there having been a black population in Vindobona, as well as their total absorption into the population. Can you site me any sources which describe this? Can you give me any more details on the subject? I am quite interested in learning more about this. I post on a message board called Racial Myths, and your article might be of interest. >> Sincerely,>> Bill Kreiner +++++++++++++++++++++ (*) [b]Bronze figurine of a Moorish cavalrymanRoman, probably 2nd or 3rd century AD[/b] 'My initial response is to the contextualisation of the figure in Roman Britain. I would like to know more about the relative cosmopolitan make up of society at that time and the influence on the UK gene pool. Visually the figure is reminiscent of Rastafarians with its apparent dreadlocked hair and beard. I would like to see more information, perhaps an exhibition on the range and variety of hairstyles within African cultures and their meanings. That this figure was a cavalryman demonstrates there was a high level of military competence in Africa at the period which this figure represents.' Stuart Taylor, of English/Caribbean/Black British origin This bronze figurine, originally seated on a horse, shows a Moor from the Roman province of Mauretania in North Africa. He has distinctive dreadlocks, a drooping moustache and a full beard. His eyes appear very lifelike because they are inlaid with silver. He wears leather boots and a short cloak over a tunic, and he holds his round shield in front of him. His right hand, now broken, would probably have held a spear. Moorish cavalrymen rode without bridles and as early as the second century BC they were famous for their nimble horsemanship. They were deployed as specialist units in the Roman army, and a detachment is clearly depicted in one of the sculpted battle scenes on Trajan's Column in Rome (erected about AD 113). There they are shown fighting alongside Roman troops in the Emperor Trajan's Dacian Wars (AD 101-105). An altar inscription tells us that one of these Moorish units, the numerus Maurorum Aurelianorum, was in Britain from the third to the fourth century AD. They were based at the fort of Aballava (Burgh-by-Sands) at the western end of Hadrian's Wall, and were probably brought over by the Emperor Septimius Severus (reigned AD 193-211), himself a North African. K.R. Dixon and P. Southern, The Roman cavalry (London, Routledge, 1992) A. Hyland, Equus: the horse in the Roman (London, Yale University Press, 1990) P.A. Holder, The Roman army in Britain (London, Batsford, 1982) A. Hyland, Training the Roman cavalry (Stroud, Glos., Sutton Publishing, 1993) [/QB][/QUOTE]
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