...
Post A Reply
my profile
|
directory
login
|
register
|
search
|
faq
|
forum home
»
EgyptSearch Forums
»
Deshret
»
early art depicting 12th cent The Almohad Dynasty, BERBERS /MOORS
» Post A Reply
Post A Reply
Login Name:
Password:
Message Icon:
Message:
HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by melchior7: [QB] [b]Funny how your only response in sarcasm on going to a Library, which in the end proves you are just a Google scholar with no formal education on the topic at hand. Guess the joke is on you.[/b] Don’t know why you say that. I get my information from where ever I can. I got tons of books at home on a variety of subjects but most of the stuff is outdated. As for my education I am a History major but currently pursuing a graduate degree in something totally unrelated. No, I am not a geneticist or Anthropologist, my profession is far from any of that. But I have always been interested in anthropolgy and archaeology since I was a kid. But as you know information is always coming in, theories are constantly being revised etc. If you want to stay a breast, you can’t really on yesterday’s books. Of course I will go online to find new information using Google or whatever. I can get ten times the information I could ever get from books. Thank God for the internet. [b]Arab and the Arab identity is by and large a Language group. People who speak Arabic and worship an Arab religion see themselves as Arabs. Which is why you have people like the Janjaweed and other SSA claiming to Arabs. Which is why you had President Sedat claiming to Arab, and why Arabs were upset that an English speaking AA with no Arab blood played Sedat.(anyone in the West that claims Sedat did not look "Black" is delusional, but again in Arab society one drop of Arab blood makes one Bidan and thus Arab. the Pole opposite of the west).[/b] Ok this is a digression. But for the record I believe Sadat did have Sudanese ancestry. His mother was Nubian Sudanese. So he was Black. [b]Once again you are not answering my question. You claim the Urbanized Berbers who speak Latin or Arabic etc are not really Berbers so then why quote Ibn Bhutatta, why post your mosaics?? You have not answered this question, just off topic babble..[/b] Ibn Batutta was surveying different regions of Africa. He was describing the different tribes he encountered. He was not talking about urbanized Berbers. The Mosaics give us a snapshot of North Africans 2000 years ago before the Arabs and Vandals. We should see images of very dark skinned natives if they were originally Black [b]The Romans migrated to the African Cities during this time. How convenient for you, but sorry for you the Romans did migrate heavily to Africa. After all it was quite close...some info from Wiki...[/b] one third.. meaning the majority were likely Native North Africans who would have been employed in various fields throught the region. Is there any reason to believe that their images would not show up on the mosaics? [b]So then what is the point of you posting the Moasics Garrig?? Explain yourself...[/b] There were a good many in the cities I’m sure but the majority lived in the foothills of the Aures Mountains where Kabyles and Shawiya came from. [b]BTW, you might want to do some research on the level of European admixture in various Native Americans..The Cherokee come to mind but Many, Many Native Americans are heavily mixed today. Many native Americans have European admixture, Some like the Siminole have African admixture..etc.[/b] That isn’t the point. The reference is to European Slaves. Algeria, Morocco etc in during the time of the Barbary pirates were regions were Arabs and Turks dominated. Their influence was in the cities. If slaves were caught you would expect them to forced to convert to Islam and Arabic culture as many of the many of the historical anecdotes tell us, which you yourself have read. It certainly seems strange that many Europeans slaves would end up in some rural villages speaking Berber. How could they afford them? How could they compete with the Pashas??? Someone said the dress and customs of these Berbers resemble those of people in the Balkans or Albania. How can this be, if most of the slaves came from Spain and France? The Berbers have more people with fair traits than those in the cities whom we know have some European slave ancestry. How do we explain that? Also if so much of the European DNA is Iberian, why do some groups of Berbers show a greater tendency toward Blond traits than folks in Spain?? [b]I would say the pure ones are quite a Minority. And the Native Americans were put on Reservations, I don't recall this happeneing with the Berbers..[/b] The Berbers have their own regions and communities, though not nationally protected like reservations. [b]I don't think Septimius came from the Tribe that Juba did, I think he was a Moor not a Numidian. This is what I picture the Numidians looking like..[/b] Ok they look mixed with Black, definitely. They look like Southern Egyptians. [b]How is this "Incredible" I doubt the Berbers were very numerous at this time. You probably had trickles of European Immigrants to North African(and vice versa) cities. When the Berbers became Urbanized they mixed with non African Europeans who came in in a large scale. I don't think it was so drastic but a gradual change.[/b] Well it doesn’t look like the Romans affected their phenotype much. Remember many on here believe that the Moors were Black when they invaded Spain. Many disagree with the quotes of Ibn Batutta from the 14th century about light Berbers. So essentially you are looking at most of North Africa going from Black to light skinned somewhere between 1400 and 1800, I guess. Dana says there were no Eurasian looking Berbers before the 16th century. Such a racial change over so vast a region is quite drastic to say the least. And if so many of the Berbers have mostly kept to themselves, and their Y dna is E and their Iberian mtDNA dates back to early Neolithic, then the European slave theory doesn’t work very well. [b]I agree with this, It would be interesting. The Hair style on the man and the Moorish Calvary as well as the Moorish vases etc. reminds me of an Egyptian wig style. Oddly enough the only people who still sport this type of style are the Beja people of Egypt and Sudan. Not only did Berber as a language begin in the Eastern Desert but the Beja are Gentically linked to the Taureg. Go figure.[/b] I believe there was a migration toward the East as well when the Sahara dried up which came to bear on Egypt and the Sudan. Look at this. “An Italian team of archaeologists first explored the Libyan Sahara almost fifty years ago. In 1958 they struck gold. Professor Fabrizio Mori discovered the black mummy at the Uan Muhuggiag rockshelter. The mummy of a young boy, Uan Muhuggiag was destined for controversy. He was older than any comparable Egyptian mummy and his mere existence challenged the very idea that Egyptians were the first in the region to mummify their dead. Although the Italian team from the university of Rome “La Sapienza”, has since discovered other mummified tissue, they have not yet discovered another complete mummy in the region. But Uan Muhuggiag was no one off. The sophistication of his mummification suggested he was the result of a long tradition of mummification. Investigations in the area continue under the direction of Dr Savino di Lernia and Professor Mario Liverani.” [b]Now as far as the Modern Racism its obviously inspired by European and Western mentality.[/b] Yeah that is true. [b]I don't know I think by the Lightest I envision a Sahran type person, Lighter than most Africans but dark enough to included with blacks. this is what I envision... http://f.imagehost.org/0879/09-03-06_07_33_10.jpg http://images.allocine.fr/medias/nmedia/00/02/29/42/ph1.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2055/2501863388_ba81ef8c53_b.jpg [/b] I think that is closer maybe some a little lighter. But that is what some would refer to as Middle Eastern looking. [b]Well what about the Garamantes?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garamantes These people were inhabiting the Sahrah before the Arabs came. The Taureg are still lightskinned as compared to other Africans, and the Garamantes were described as Athipies meaning blacks. Here is something interesting from Snowden.. http://books.google.com/books?id=KWHMc-jNzlwC&pg=PA9&dq=ethiopians+garamantes&hl [/b] One thing. I think there is a lot differing claims from the Greek and Romans regarding North Africans when we look at all the quotes. Herodotus claims Garamantes were light distinguishing them from Ethiopians. Others claim Garamantes were the same as Ethiopians. [b]How would you classify someone like this according to Classical standards.. http://www.frenchcreoles.com/@ARM775~Young-Berber-Girl-Posters.jpg http://www.transafrika.org/media/Nordafrika/berber07.jpg http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTiVNDIqY2W_OKhHzKFrIAUYiZrKbuyAZyfbxS1n9v6uwW4Ugne73GxBU2KJQ [/b] The girl looks like a mulatta, The old Man looks more Arabic, the boy looks Black. But here is a question, could folks who migrated from East Africa northwards have developed some kind of intermediate phenotype without being mixed?? Could the mountainous regions in North Africa during the last glacial maximum have been cold enough for North Africans to adopt light traits similar to Europeans? [/QB][/QUOTE]
Instant Graemlins
Instant UBB Code™
What is UBB Code™?
Options
Disable Graemlins in this post.
*** Click here to review this topic. ***
Contact Us
|
EgyptSearch!
(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com
Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3