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Do the Berbers descend of Iberumaurians?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mazigh: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [qb] The Majority, yes. What those authors are basing it on, however, I don't know. You certainly wouldn't see it in their Y chromosomal haplogroup profile because those lineages died out. Where else did you think Berbers come from? [/qb][/QUOTE]The traditional idea is that the Berbers descending from The Capsians. The Capsians would have replaced the Mechta-Afalou / North African Cro-magnon. But, if the quoted statement would be genetically prooved. That would than mean that the Capsians would have evolved from the Iberomaurusian/mechta-afalou. M81 was dated back to -+5600 years ago, this was the time of the Capsian culture, but someone told me that the M81 is redated to 15000 years ago, because of a haplogroup called:V257. " A newly discovered mutation, V257, combined all the E-M81" If so, the E-81/V257 would go back to the time of the Iberomaurisians. [/qb][/QUOTE]Hi Mazigh. The largest contribution Berbers have received overall is from the Ibero-Maurusians. This view is supported by genome-wide analysis of Berber populations (though not by haplogroup analysis). When you correlate the appearance of Capsian populations with haplogroups, the only haplogroups that dates to this time period are (subclades of) H1, H4 and some others, like U5. These are all Iberian lineages that also spread to the rest of Europe, around the same time. If the Capsians would have come from the East, then we would expect to see the highest amount of this ancestry in the East, and the lowest amount of this ancestry in the West. This is, in fact, the exact opposite of what we see. Capsian populations don't really look like anything that's in Eastern Africa either (in terms of bodyplan, mandible and cranio-facial phenotype in general), nor did they bring with them typical East African characteristics that were prevalent in Northeast Africa at the time, like ground stones and extensive grain collecting. These behaviours are attested very early linguistically in Proto-Afrasan, so their absence in the Capsian cultures is quite telling. E-M81 seems to have originated among E-V257 carrying Afrasan speaking groups during/after (not before) their expansion to Northwest Africa. These groups look to have been, among others, Badarian-like cultured populations that introduced certain Neolithic characteristics to the Capsians, and whom also reached Iberia. Capsians also received Neolithic input from Neolithic traditions other than Africans, but that's another subject. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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