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Which People resemble egyptians?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Supercar: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Hikuptah: We all know that Egyptians are Diverse[/QUOTE]Nope; not 'all' of us are aware of the diversity, which is why we get claims here like, so and so doesn't look like an 'Egyptian', so and so's phenotype is 'rare' in Egypt. This thread is proof of this. [QUOTE]Hikuptah: but the lady in the picture is a Nubian and as Ausar said Nubians separate themselves and dont really associate with Egyptians im From Aswan and there are alot of Nubians but they really dont mix with saeedi egyptians[/QUOTE]So do the "Afrangi" groups, who tend to dissassociate themselves from the "Fellaheen", and perhaps the self-identified "Arabs" of the region in general, who don't equate themselves with the general 'darker skin' Egyptians either. So what is your point; that this disqualifies one's indigenousness as "Egyptian"? [QUOTE]Hikuptah: and tend to be separate from egyptians culturally socially & lingustically they are different.[/QUOTE]See post above, and by the use of your term "egyptians" as a separate entity, are you on the record, prepared to say that the so-called "Nubians" of Egypt, aren't Egyptians? [QUOTE]Hikuptah: Not all Egyptians are Nubians and Not all Egyptians are Beja & Nubians are not Saeedi and Saeedi are not Nubians.[/QUOTE]From the looks of things, it is you who is implying such, by making seem that there is this "homogenous" entity in Egypt, that is separate from the so-called "Nubians". Are you now prepared to back away from your earlier claim, [i]if[/i] that was your premises? [QUOTE]Hikuptah: [b]Supercar why dont u say Saeedis and Beja are the same[/b] people when u know they are not Most Modern Egyptians look nothing like Beja or Nubians. [/QUOTE]Let me see...yeap, because it would be stupid to say so, and the question doesn't really have anything to do with what I've said. We call the behavior of placing 'non-existent' claims into the mouth of another, as way to produce a pseudo-argument so that it can then be knocked down, a 'strawman'. You should perhaps be asking yourself this question, because it is in your claims, that we come across what appears to be a homogenous "Egyptian" entity, and a separate [presumably "non-Egyptian"] pseudo-entity known as "Nubians". [QUOTE]Originally posted by ausar: Supercar wrote: [QUOTE]Where was this picture "originally" posted? I know where "I" got it from, because I was the one who originally posted it here[/QUOTE]Yes, the picture is from an website you posted about Nubians and the Aswan dam. Understand, I understand your point about the picture of the women and agree that there are Egyptians that look like her. I also emphasized that I consider Nubians Egyptians also and we do have a shared culture but [b]Nubians have a unique idenity of their own.[/b][/QUOTE]So do the "Arab" Egyptians, and the various "fellaheen" across the nation, unless of course, you are prepared to say that everyone in the country identify as "Arabs". [QUOTE]ausar: Supercar wrote: [QUOTE]That would be welcome; it would enhance the understanding of folks like moi, who also have a cautious appraoch to the term "Nubian"[/QUOTE]The problem is I don't know what ''Nubian'' ethnic group she belongs to wheater its Kenuzi,Nobiin,Dongolan,Fadija. Some of these words like Fadija is simply a Nubian word for farmer.[/QUOTE]Which is why I still see this term "Nubian" as a ruse, because I doubt that each of these ethnic groups actually call themselves "Nubians". Do these ethnic groups marry outside of their respective ethnic entity? [QUOTE]ausar: [QUOTE]So do the so-called "Afrangi" towards the "Fellahs". The self-indentified "Arab" elite populations of the northern regions of the country, don't exactly equate themselves with some groups from rural areas in Upper Egypt. In that respect, I think it is safe to suggest that they 'consider themselves unique' from those Egyptians[/QUOTE]This is actually quite more complex than I intially stated because you also have [b]Fallahin in both the Delta and in southern Egypt.[/b][/QUOTE]I was aware of this. [QUOTE]ausar: Fallahin that migrate into the city live in certain sections people know as balady. Lots of the Afrangi[an Arabic word meaning a Frank but generally applied to most Westeners] have Egyptian origins but have mixed heavily with Turkish or Westeners. Some are of completely Turkish origin. [b]They look down on traditional ''baladi'',fellah,and Sa3eedi culture and love Western culture.[/b][/QUOTE]Precisely, and hence, see themselves as 'unique' from the others. Does this make them any more "Egyptian" than any other group, who chose to be conservative, in terms of marriages along ethnic lines and socio-ethnic identity? Does this not shatter into pieces, the notion of the 'homogenous' Egyptian entity and a singular 'non-Egyptian' entity [b]of Egypt[/b] called "Nubians", that some would have us believe here? [QUOTE]ausar: Then again some Fallahin in the Delta have non-Egyptian ancestry mixed in but still identify with the traditional culture. [b]The traditional elite in Egypt do look down upon Fallahin,Baladi and Sa3eedis.[/b][/QUOTE]Goes back to the point I just made. Please see post above. [QUOTE]ausar: Just to note the singular is Fallah or plural Fallahin.[/QUOTE]It may seem subtle to you that I knew this, from the way I wrote "Fellah[b]**s**[/b]". I would agree that this would perhaps be an awkward way of applying English grammar to a non-English term. [QUOTE]ausar: Know the Fallahin view their existence as their village and consider most people outside their villages to be foreign. Most would not understand this unless you are a Fallah yourself. They really are attached to their village existence. [/QUOTE]In a nutshell, Ausar, this is a perfect example that it is ridiculous to apply a 'questionable' singular construct by the term "Nubians", as separate from a "homogenous" Egyptian entity, whereby there are no ethnic or class identity differences in the latter. And again, the so-called "Nubians" have always been in Egypt, but for some reason, as implied by some of the posts herein, these are the people who've come to be considered outsiders, even with respect to those who just recently or post-predynastic period had come to the region; why is that? Doug's question on this made sense, and interestingly enough, it was never answered. The region so-called "Nubia" and the inhabitants therein had "been" in that Nile Valley region, since both the pre-dynastic and post-dynastic era. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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