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RACE WAR Among Muslims in Al-Andalus: How Berbers were treated in Spain due to color
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by HERU: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche: If he was a Hasa of the Nafzawa that would make it even less likely that he was "red haired" unless he was of course using henna. Modern Jebel Nafusa Berbers certainly don't look much like that painting. Neither did the Zanata of Ibn Khaldun's time evidently since he writes of people saying Berbers were black because they were cursed descendants of Canaan and claimed the Zanata were the largest of the Berber tribes of his day. ;) Sergi describes the peoples of the oases of Nafzawa and Wed Suef and Wed Regh and other Berbers of the Sus as “of very dark complexion” in Guiseppi Sergi The Mediterranean Race. [/qb][/QUOTE]What's more, Ibn Khaldun called himself correcting other historians but he relied, like them, on biblical mythology. [b]“Ham, having become black because of a curse pronounced against him by his father, fled to the Maghrib to hide in shame...Berber, son of Kesloudjim [Casluhim], one of his descendants, left numerous posterity in the Maghrib."[/b] - Ibn Khaldun, Histoire I, 177–178 [/qb][/QUOTE]But at least the Andalusian Khaldun said that most people believed this is why the Berbers of his time (14th century) were black, and incidentally that Central Arabia, Hijaz and Yemen etc were a "zone of Sudan". :) [/qb][/QUOTE]"The Christians of Iberia used the term Moor to describe all the Muslims black and not black at that time."[/QB][/QUOTE]At what time only at a very late period of time. lol! Before that as Simonet said early on the Christian Mozarabs used it as a synonym for "Negro" black. [qb] [QUOTE]"The Moors who invaded Iberia were largely Berber who came from the ancient Roman provinces in costal North Africa, Numidia and Mauretania." [/qb][/QUOTE]Exactly and the Syrians, Iranians, Andalusians call all of them "black-skinned". That is only your hope and dream that they were all very much mixed. But as Ibn Butlan tells us there were only "a few pale women among them" and nobody ever mentions a single tribe as being fair in color before the 16th century. [qb] [QUOTE]"You could redefine what the world calls "Berber" and say Berbers are only 100% indigenous Africans. " [/qb][/QUOTE]The word Berber has already been redefined by north african nationalists, Neandernutcase. If you don't mind we are all here just learning about and explaining why Moors were called black as night (Isidore)as pitch Corippus, as ravens (Corippus), as ink (Chanson de Roland)for so long and why in Spanish-speaking countries like Ecuador EVEN TODAY variants of the word still mean "NEGRO". :D You do know that in the earliest periods even before the "black-skinned negroid" Masmuda ruled Almohades and the Tuareg dominated Almoravids, negroid black-skinned Berbers including Negroid Zanata and Masmuda and Azuwagh along with Tuareg and black Arabians were the predominant Muslims in Spain - hence the phrase "MOORISH SPAIN"! Over 900,000 Berbers according to Aline Angoustoures i.e. black-skinned Masmuda (Barghuwata, Gumeri etc), Garawa and Zawagha clans of the Zanata and near black Tuareg (Sanhaja,Zanata, Gaezula) Africans were at one time settled in Iberia. I know it hurts, but youll get it over it one day. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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