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Berbers are primarily not African ?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by typeZeiss: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by [b]the lioness,[/b]: [QUOTE]Originally posted by [b]Trollkillah # Ish Gebor[/b]: ^for the trolling person above. It's funny and pathetic how you fight this with every drop of blood running through your racist veins. Sub clade [URL=http://underscore][b]E-M81[/b] is known as [b]the Berber clade[/b], since [b]it's regional to Northwest Africa[/b][/URL]. [/QUOTE]. what I posted supports much of what Amun Ra posted so what are you talking about? Diop, Clyde and Amun Ra are more Afrocentric that you are. You cliam that berbers are primarily African. They don't. And [URL=http://underscore]this is bourne out by the maternal DNA[/URL] [/QUOTE]. How does maternal DNA prove Berbers are not primarily African? Are Berbers only female? What about autosomes, primarily African or not? What about nrY Chromosomes, primarily African or not? I posit the obvious [list] [*]North Africa was populated by indigenees [*]Foreign peoples came to N Afr and had African mates. [*]By the time Berber became NAs' language [i]coastal[/i] NAs were substantially mixed. [*]Berbers continued taking foreign mates (perhaps preferentially. [*]Berbers remain majority African with the local indigenous genetics the highest in evidence. [/list] Confirming data to come in support of the below: factoring autosomes, nrY, and mtDNA into a whole Berber are indisputably primarily African as per genetics. Their philosophy, outreach, and self- image has no bearing on that biological fact. [/qb][/QUOTE]Berbers are not one monolithic group, so who is a Berber then? Is it the person of enslaved European decent? Is it the person who have Black African and European concubine (again enslaved) ancestry? What definition are we to use? Those Tans and whites are VERY late comers to North Africa. North Africa was almost completely black up until about 1100 AD, when the importation of white slaves picked up. Before that, the region was almost completely black. I believe you probably still had some pockets of Roman, Greek, Assyrian, and Persian descended peoples, especially in North Egypt. But by in large, modern day people like Haratin, Tawarga, Tebu etc. are the true North African. There is a great peer reviewed paper called "What happened to the Ancient Libyans? Chasing Sources across the Sahara from Herodotus to Ibn Khaldun" written by Dr. Richard L Smith. He quotes a number of sources, dating back to about 500 BCE, which describe nothing but BLACK Africans living in North Africa. Then about 1100 AD Ibn Khaldoun describes one of the Sanhaja tribes is being bayda “whites” and the rest as blacks (suda). Ibn Khaldoun in his description even states the Black tribes of the Sanhaja are believed to be the original group and the whites looked like that because they were in the north and thus their skin became white. A silly notion indeed, but still shows that North Africa in ancient times, up until recently was dominated by blacks. Also if you watch this video [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4sbLY6rxxg,]www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4sbLY6rxxg,[/URL] Dr. Keita talks about the white and tan Toureg of a certain geographic location who have had genetic studies done on them. He states they have European admixture, which would explain the current look of some of them. Even still, with their tan and white skin, you can tell there is black African genetic base, through out that population. That video might not be the one I am thinking about, if not just youtube search for Dr. Shomarka Keita, and watch all his videos. One of them talks about genetic test done on Toureg populations. The basics of their history is, some are most likely mixed with white slaves or probably even white Muslims who left Europe after the fall of the Moorish empire. We know that some found their way to North and West Africa, as did Jews. Which would make sense, some of the black Berber tribes were Jews before Islam came into Africa. Contrary to popular belief, many did not convert to Islam and remained Jews for a LONG time. When the Arabs and Africans attached Spain, there were Jews among them who helped to conquer Spain. Their descendants probably became whiter looking when they mixed with European people, and they then went back to their ancestral homes in North/ North West Africa, once Moorish Spain fell. There is a good peer reviewed paper titled “Judaic Threads in the West African Tapestry: No More Forever?” by Dr. Labelle Prussin. In it he shows source material from Arab travelers, who stated they encountered black “Jewish” peoples in North and West Africa. Also, if you read Tarikh Al Sudan, there is a preamble concerning a Malian man, who gives the manuscript (Tarikh Al Sudan) to a French researcher. The French researcher noted that the Malian told this white man “While Europeans were living in Caves, we were worshiping the God of Moses”, in relation to the fact many peoples in the area claim to have originally practiced a mosaic religion of some sort, long before there was ever a white skinned person claiming to practice a religion based on the teachings of the Prophet Moses. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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