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Berbers are primarily not African ?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by [b]the lioness,[/b]: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [QUOTE]Originally posted by [b]xyyman[/b]: To those that don't get it. Calafell just called Torroni a liar. Which I knew he was. There is no "refugium", the ice age slowed the migration it picked up where it left off when the ice retreated. MtDNA U has a similar pattern. It is pre LGM. You do know Torroni "invented" the Refugium Theory? [/QUOTE]you say "migration it picked up where it left off when the ice retreated" Before that point, in the middle of the LGM when temerpatures dropped to ice age conditions where did the people who had been living in Northern and Central Europe go? [/QUOTE]xyyman says the same thing about the Refugium in many posts yet when asked he can never explain what he thinks happened to the people in Europe. He has no credibility on this topic. It's useless to say one theory is wrong and then never to have a theory which explains "what really happened" [/QUOTE]. Substituting N&C Europe for north Morocco in regards to central and south Iberia and is a bait and switch diversion. There was no ice between C&S Iberia and N Maroc during the LGM to impede travel hence Refugium Theory does not apply to C&S Iberia and N Maroc movement. So saying H1'3 came to N Afr as a result of refugia emptying from north Iberia doesn't hold because the N Ibr movement was into C&N Europe which was previously impeded by LGM conditions. Simple logic but unthought of until Xyyman, afaik. One proof of this is African absence of immediate post-LGM uniparentals that spread thru Europe. No? (All should know I lost all my genetics studies and notes and am going only from memory -- which can be hazy or colored -- so anybody please inform and correct me where and if I'm against established fact.) The whole of central and south Iberia, Corsica, Sardinaia, the Apennine & Balkan peninsulas, and Anatolia along with littoral North Africa from Morocco to Tunisia was [i]one big refugium[/i]. [IMG]http://www.vinetowinecircle.com/wp-content/gallery/en-genetica-the-presence-of-wild-vines-during-the-ice-age-in-iberia/fig02.jpg[/IMG] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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