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DNA studies if black amazigh im Morocco
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [QB] Yep. I changed my views a little bit myself. Compared to the last time I spoke on this subject in 2014: [QUOTE] Originally posted by Swenet in 2014: [b]Biological Structure[/b] --The proto-Berbers, as a biological entity, originate in East Africa and have gone extinct. The available genetic literature shows that modern day Berber speakers are an amalgam of at least the following people: Ibero-Maurusians, Chamla's proto-Mediterraneans (i.e. Iberians), (Chadic) Wet Sahara Sub-Saharan Africans, Neolithic Near Easterners, and, finally, Pastoral Proto-Berbers, with the migrations happening in that respective order (chronologically speaking). The order of importance of the autosomal contributions of these people to the modern day Berber genepool is probably very similar to this ordering. [b]Locus of expansion[/b] The earliest evidence of Berber words exists in Ancient Egyptian texts. These texts are much older than the coalescent age of any modern Berber language. This, therefore, completely destroys any claim that the Berber language expanded from the Maghreb or that it originates from Vandal occupation: [QUOTE] "In addition, Darnell and Manasssa mention the so-called ‘Hound-Stela’ of the Eleventh Dynasty ruler Antef II (2118-2069BC) where one of his basenjis is named Abaikur “meaning ‘hound’ in Berber, suggesting a southwestern origin for that particular dog” (p. 81)."[/QUOTE][URL=http://davidkarunanithy.com/dow-updates.html]link[/URL] On the other hand, modern day extant Berber languages only coalesce to 2-3kya according to glottochronological work: [QUOTE] "Several scholars have suggested that the level of diversity inside Berber is similar to that inside the Germanic or the Romance language groups. If diversification and time depth were to correlate in the same way in these European language groups as in Berber, this would imply a time depth of about 2000–2500 years only (Louali and Philippson 2004)."[/QUOTE]--Dugoujon et al. 2009 This indicates that the earliest Berber languages to split off from the main stem were spoken in regions adjacent to the Nile Valley, and that modern day Berber languages split off later. [b]Kefi's Taforalt and Afalou samples[/b] [IMG]http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9104/kefitaforalt.jpg[/IMG] Not very much to say here. Slightly less than half of the samples are identical to CRS. This condition is diagnostic of mtDNA H lineages, but occasionally, mtDNA U(xU6) samples are reported which are identical to CRS in HVS-I. The rest of the samples only differ from CRS in a couple of places. This is highly inconsistent with mtDNA L lineages (which are typically more divergent from CRS in HVS-I) and this shows in the assigned haplogroups. When these sampled Taforalt people were alive 12kya, they themselves were immigrants from Europe, or they were 2nd, 3rd etc. generation immigrants in the Maghreb. Fu et al corrected mtDNA mutation rates shows [URL=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-71JYGXNrukY/UUyZ07GOx5I/AAAAAAAAItk/g4kxvVCtEgc/s400/mtdna_ages.png]older estimates for mtDNA V[/URL], which are well in line with the cal age of the sampled Taforalt remains. While not specifically tested in Fu et al 2013, it's very likely that this new corrected mutation rate would stretch the U5b1b, V, H1 and H3 lineages in modern Berbers back a bit beyond the ~10kya ages which are typically assigned to these lineages. In 2013 Kefi obtained similar results with Afalou aDNA. Just like the Taforalt HVI-I sequences, they shifted towards Eurasians: [QUOTE] "Phylogenetic analysis based on mitochondrial sequences from Mediterranean populations was performed using Neighbor-Joining algorithm implemented in MEGA program. mtDNA sequences from Afalou and Taforalt were classified in Eurasiatic and North African haplogroups. We noted the absence of Sub-Saharan haplotypes. Phylogenetic tree clustered Taforalt with European populations." [/QUOTE]--Kefi et al 2013 [/QB][/QUOTE]I now think E-V257 (which contains M81) has an old (around the time of the LGM) presence in this region. I adopted this view based on certain clues in Trombetta et al 2015 and how this fits with other data. Another slight alteration is that I now make a distinction between the widely studied Taforalt and Afalou samples vs their ancestors in the region. I still think these specific Taforalt and Afalou samples have a lot of Eurasian ancestry. But I also think their ancestors had that to a lesser degree, being more associated with E-V257, L3k, etc (as opposed to mtDNA H1, H3, V, U5, etc). E-V257 has all the right features of being old in the Maghreb, as opposed to having just an early/mid holocene presence: [QUOTE]E-V257* individuals in their samples who were E-V257, but not E-M81. A Borana from Kenya, [b]a Marrakesh Berber, a Corsican, a Sardinian, a southern Spaniard and a Cantabrian.[/b] As mentioned above, Trombetta et al. 2011 propose that the [b]absence of E-V257* in the Middle East[/b] makes a [b]maritime movement from northern Africa to southern Europe the most plausible hypothesis so far to explain its distribution.[/b][/QUOTE]^But it needs to be confirmed with aDNA from the Maghreb. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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