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DNA studies if black amazigh im Morocco
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: [QB] @Ish Gebor: Thanks for the sources. @Swenet: Great Swenet... Now I have to update my views on the proto-Berbers and Maghreb region yet AGAIN! lol! [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: I appreciate that you took the time to actually read the relevant parts of the paper. I mainly cited it for the dates it gives for the Iberomaurusian, but I see you read more than just that summary. [/QUOTE]Thanks but you shouldn't give me too much credit, because I have used that same study MANY upon MANY times in debates. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: Personally, I'm doubtful that E-M81 was brought to the Maghreb by Berber speakers. As I point out here and here, I think that [b]E-M81 was already in the Maghreb before that.[/b] [/QUOTE]Okay... This is freaking interesting. And this is the first time I am hearing something like this. I always thought that E-M81 was "the Berber marker" and that it proved Berbers East African paternal origins. But now you're saying that it could actually be a local Maghreb marker and not East African? Interesting. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: In fact, the paternal line that carries the E-M81 mutation breaks away from E-M35 around the same time when the Iberomaurusian industry starts to spread in the coastal areas of the Maghreb (according to Trombetta et al, this paternal line emerged ~25ky ago). Just like this paternal line is connected to Red Sea coast E-M35, so are Iberomaurusian tools related to some Late Palaeolihtic Nile Valley tools. Also, E-M81 is older than brother clade E-M78. This is interesting because both come from the Nile Valley region, but only E-M78 is dominant there today. This argues against an early or mid-holocene arrival of E-M81 in the Maghreb with the Berber speakers. Because E-M81 is not an important lineage east of Libya (not even among Siwa Berbers), it suggests that the branch that carries the E-M81 mutation left the eastern Sahara early. So, these are some of the indications we have that the specifics of the FIRST Iberomaurusian cultures and the E-Z827/E-V257/E-M81 lineage line up nicely. We just can't prove it conclusively, yet. We need aDNA for this. [/QUOTE]Okay all of this makes sense now... Especially E-M81 breaking away from E-M35 around the Iberomaurusian industry starts ti head to the coast. Also people always assume that the Siwa are not "true Berbers" because their men do not carry E-M81, but now it seems that Maghreb Berbers may not be the "true Berbers." Am I making sense? Have Siwa Berber men ever been detected of carrying E-M35? I know I am asking a complicated question. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [b]To answer your question: the Iberomaurusian has affinities with industries in the Nile Valley.[/b] There also is a 15-20ky gap between the Aterian and the Iberomaurusian. This makes an identification of the Iberomaurusians with the Aterians difficult. Although you're right to say that elements of the Aterians seem to have survived and passed some of their DNA to living northwest Africans and West/Central Africans. [/QUOTE]I never heard the bolded before. Again VERY game changing for me... I always assumed the Nile Valley and Maghreb were always divorced from other another i.e Maghreb clades like U6 and E-M81 hardly being found in the Nile Valley. Anyways all in all are you saying the FIRST people of the Iberomaurusian industry had affinities with those from the Nile Valley, but they were soon absorbed by migrating Eurasians? Again I know I am asking complicated and long questions but you forced me to update my views again. lol... [/QB][/QUOTE]
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