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DNA studies if black amazigh im Morocco
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] ^ North Africa just like Arabia has gone through periods of wet phases as well as dry phases with populations retreating and returning with the respective phases. Some of the retreating populations were to find refugia in the eastern part of North Africa it was the Nile Valley while in the Maghreb it was moister mountain valleys and coasts. Obviously bottlenecks with founder effect events is what happened as well as later admixture. This is why the best DNA samples should come from ancient remains moreso than modern populations who only represent a fraction of the ancient genome. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [qb] So? Some of those same Arab authors said Egyptian Cops were 'black'. Presumably, these Copts were more consistently light brown back then, making it easier for Al-Jahiz to generalize this entire community as lighter skinned 'blacks'. Such a description obviously doesn't apply anymore to Copts in general. Can we say based on this description that any dark skinned man in modern Egypt owes his dark skin to those medieval Copts? Of course not. There have been all sort of darker skinned communities in Egypt since then, including recently migrated Nubians. It's no different in the Maghreb. Those descriptions of medieval and Greek authors don't have a straightforward relevancy to all dark skin in the Maghreb today as modern day Berbers aren't straight forward descendants of the ancient people in the Maghreb. Someone you describe as a 'black Berber' could have some ancestors [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009525;p=1#000009]with no ties to North Africa[/URL]. And if you read the same Pliny and other texts you're mentioning, you would know that light skin is more ancient in the Maghreb than Barbary pirates. So how can you make two convenient checkboxes of 'hybrid partial descendants of European slaves' and 'non hybrid black Berber'? [/qb][/QUOTE]Precisely the point of my initial post in this thread. How the hell can you tell which populations let alone individuals best represent the original population by 'dark skin' alone. My point about the Khoisan peoples is that a similar complexion was probably held by the aboriginal peoples of the Maghreb, though we can't say unless DNA for skin color is sequenced. We know from skeletal remains that on average the Oranian/Iberomarusians were similar in appearance to Cromagnon except that they had greater interorbital width, larger nasal openings, and more prognathous. Such features are typically associated with so-called "negroids" but they differed in other measurements from modern day Sub-Saharans which group them closer to upper paleolithic Eurasians like Cromagnon. My guess is that they represent an early split from OOA ancestors like Hofmeyer in Southern Africa. [/qb][/QUOTE]I agree with your point about expecting to find lighter skin among long term inhabitants of the Maghrebi coast, independent of European geneflow. Just like we find (on average) lighter skin tones among Pygmies in the Central African rain forests than among, say, southern Sudanese and rural Somalis. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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