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Ancient Egyptian DNA from 1300BC to 426 AD
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oshun: [QB] Honestly, I'm not waiting around another 5 years or more before they finally give us something as big on upper Egypt and it seems other researchers aren't either. Some people seem to feel Northern Egypt gets the attention while opportunities to have more southern Egypt data is passed up or only partially provided. At the start of looking into Egypt I'd wondered why people were interested in craniometrics or skeletal review when we have genetics. After reading some of Keita's work, discussions on the importance of a multidisciplinary approach and the conversation about body plans/plasticity, the question of biological adaptation is something I've started to think more about. I want to make something clear though: I'm not declaring that they were indistinguishable from SSA stereotypes. My position is that Upper Egyptians would've likely have been adapted northeast Africans. Early dynastic southern Egyptians would've probably been more adapted to a combination of a sahel-like environment with some level of humid adaptations. Idk if genetics is going to be the deciding factor both sides make it to be, and both Eurocentrics and Afrocentrics have been on both sides of this. Ironically, it wasn't the "Afrocentric" folks that made me ponder this, but how people responded to the Amarnas. People who didn't like or were intensely skeptical the results basically challenged the authoritativeness of the research on the basis ancient remains would be difficult to reproduce. Marchant was being brought up regularly to challenge the Amarna study by the Eurocentric crowd. Today, the shoe is a little bit more on the other foot. There's ppl that think that Egyptian politics would never give us a "true" or "honest" answer, or that they would restrict which mummy dna data could searched for (or be fully released). This would in theory skew results. But for a moment I'll ignore that kind of skepticism. Even if (big ass if) the upper Egyptians had haplogroup data that wouldn't be associated with so much as northern Africa, it's likely they'd still essentially be "African." What upper Egyptians have more of is an archeological record that shows biological and cultural continuity with more southern areas. Linguistically they're not Semites. They have local adaptions to their African environment. They also have limb data (among other things) that shows African biological selection and pressure. Even if people who were mixed arrived to explain those kinds of (hypothetical) results, they'd still have been physiologically pressured by the land they lived in. if ecological pressure and selection were irrelevant in determining biological makeup (regardless of haplogroup data), every group with a high V88 population would not be biologically adapted to their African environments now and would probably still be heavily Eurasian adapted. Many V88 carriers (despite being the likely descendants of a back migrations into Africa) are essentially African adapted. Northern Egyptians were probably facing environmental pressures too and lived in an area where for thousands of years there was no Sahara. I seriously doubt many of them were eastern carbon copies. But I do predict a cline. Whatever ecological pressures they might've been receiving (even before the desert came back) would've been met with less proximity required for eastern geneflow compared to the south. Their location would've also given them less access to African geneflow from nearby people (like Nubians). Even by the early dynastic era, southern Egypt and Northern Sudan hadn't become a desert and hadn't for 4,000 years. How would you separate a potential scenario of African adapted people that had at one point been subject to admixture, from a scenario like v88 carriers? Though I'm willing to amend my position on this of course, especially as I learn more. it's just what my position is right now. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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