...
Post A Reply
my profile
|
directory
login
|
register
|
search
|
faq
|
forum home
»
EgyptSearch Forums
»
Egyptology
»
Ancient Egyptian DNA from 1300BC to 426 AD
» Post A Reply
Post A Reply
Login Name:
Password:
Message Icon:
Message:
HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oshun: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Cass/: [qb] Ancient DNA supports north to south.[/qb][/QUOTE]How does this DNA support a south to north expansion. DNA cannot explain the direction state formation took. What ancient northern DNA combined with archeological sites show are influences from middle east (like settlements) that might support a northern to southern cline in eastern influence. This doesn't mean northern Egyptians hadn't similarly needed to adapt to African ecological pressures the same way other Africans had to, but this would've been a process that would've been affected to some level by years of eastern migrations. Whatever happened in northern Egypt, southern Egypt was the hegemonic cultural force behind state formation. What I see is continuity with Nubia, and there's really no debate that Nubia had adapted to it's environment. I do not as much continuity with the east as I note with some northern sites. [QUOTE][qb] Like I already said, your response to these DNA results because they conflict with your pan-African politics is to come up with some silly explanation for them. [/qb][/QUOTE]Uh huh. And Africans with high V88 in their paternal background are physiologically half Eurasian and not African adapted. They aren't essentially African because of migrations that took place not 20,000 years ago but 9-5.6 thousand years ago :rolleyes: . Cass that is a major a$$pull and you know it. But to think otherwise is being "Afrocentric." Pan Africanism is a political movement that calls for political unity of all people who're of African descent. Egyptians with admixture are and would still have been a people of (at least partial) African descent. How U.S blacks relate to pan Africanism despite varying levels of mixture, and how the general movement has sought to be inclusive of them when their ancestry is not fully African shows that the results really wouldn't need to deter that movement between Egyptians and other Africans politically. Especially not for African Americans. [QUOTE][qb] You posted an incredibly flawed population size argument. [/qb][/QUOTE]You based your accusations of flaws on: -the southern Levant being too sparsely populated (which you've provided no evidence for) -Trying to keep the conversation to the southern Levant as much as possible. I mentioned that the hypothesis could still work by expanding the source population from the southern Levant. I could extend the population source as far as Syria, etc because apparently there'd been contact that extended that far. But you tried to keep bringing the conversation back to the southern Levant [QUOTE][qb]We've also had Afrocentrists claim the samples are not native Egyptians but foreigners (even albinos?!), accuse Krause et al of "racism" etc., Sudaniya is also proposing some sort of apartheid model where only northern Egyptians had Levantine ancestry. [/qb][/QUOTE]Nobody was denying that they were native Egyptians. They were just noting that: -Northerners while native to Egypt have [b]always[/b] had more eastern influences. ES had not just started noticing clinal influences when the study came out. Minimizing risks of sampling bias with modern Egyptians had been a conversation here long before because northern Egypt has been known to carry more OOA influences. The [b]timing[/b] and continuity of these influences to northern Egypt is probably a new issue for [b]some[/b] posters though. -People have been quoting the southern origins and affinities of the southern Egyptians for years. THAT is not a new argument either. -ES has spent years making note of East African biological adaptations. Even when data on Ramses or the Amarnas (southern Egypt) was being passed around ES, groups still continued to post adaption related data and picture dumping to show adaptation. It gets a bit overwhelming in the middle of a discussion to picture spam because it can be a drain on discussion. But even as the shoe had been on the other foot, and Eurocentric dweebs were scrambling because of data from [b]southern Egypt[/b], there were still people interested in the subject of biological adaption on [b]both sides[/b]. None of these main points are at all new to ES. There are some posters here that will have to make [b]serious[/b] revisions to what they've been saying, and I am prepared to revise how I respond to data as I move forward too. But even if genetically someone from Chad or Egypt had evidence of admixture at some point, the question then like Keita mentions is whether or not they hadn't since responded to biological pressures and selections that for all intents and purposes would make them African adapted people, regardless of genetic background. People can have a particular genetic background but it's how they biologically are selected to conform to their surroundings that is what's important. THAT is what's going to potentially determine cognitive and related physical abilities. You can discuss forever your complaints about the source he selected while making this point, but he doesn't need to rely on it to make the point that humans and other lifeforms biologically adapt to their surroundings. Unless you are a creationist and completely discard evolutionary theory or even microadaption (denial of say antibiotic resistant bacteria), what he states would happen at some point on some level. So the question [b]that follows[/b] is: even if I were to entertain a major eastern admixture event for southern Egypt (as I had for some Chadic speakers), [b]did they biologically adapt to their African environment since they got there and when[/b]? If so, then the debate will continue. If not then there's potential that genetic results for southern Egypt will end things (if the haplogroup data is Eurasian). [/QB][/QUOTE]
Instant Graemlins
Instant UBB Code™
What is UBB Code™?
Options
Disable Graemlins in this post.
*** Click here to review this topic. ***
Contact Us
|
EgyptSearch!
(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com
Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3