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Ancient Egyptian DNA from 1300BC to 426 AD
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by sudaniya: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Cass/: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by sudaniya: In other words you would like to pretend that Upper Egyptians (demographically and politically dominant AE) and "Nubians" (Lower "Nubians" in particular) don't stem from a common origin and were virtually identical in the predynastic and dynastic period.[/QUOTE]No. Let's use the European example. Generally speaking, while northern Europeans can be distinguished from southern Europeans in their autosomal DNA, the overall genetic difference is very small (Greeks/Swedish: Fst=0.009); its the same for craniometric data. However, there is a significant difference in northern European vs. southern European pigmentation: skin, hair, eyes. Note the following- "As we saw above in the case of ecotypes, adaptive genetic differentiation can be maintained between populations by natural selection [i]even where there is significant gene flow between the populations[/i]." http://people.oregonstate.edu/~kaplanj/2003-PhilSc-race.pdf I propose the exact same situation for Egyptians and Nubians. People who are upset by this are idiots who are trying to politicalize terms like "black" and "white" to cover whole continents; why not just recognise the reality that northern Europeans differ significantly to southern Europeans in their pigmentation, like ancient Egyptians did to Nubians? I don't and never have called southern Europeans, "white", they're a pale-brown colour. Also, Afrocentrists are still running away from the [i]Great Hymn to the Aten[/i]: "The countries of Syria and Nubia, the land of Egypt, Thou settest every man in his place, Thou suppliest their necessities:Everyone has his food, and his time of life is reckoned.Their tongues are separate in speech, And their natures as well; [b]Their skins are distinguished[/b], As thou distinguishest the foreign peoples." :rolleyes: [/qb][/QUOTE]Ah, I see, the differences between Lower "Nubians" in Upper Egypt and their closest ethnic relatives (Upper Egyptians) is equivalent to the differences between Southern Europeans and Northern Europeans. Let's just pretend that populations with a common origin and a common culture that developed in the same country concurrently over thousands of years are going to be as distinct from each other as Italians and Norwegians are from each other. If anyone is running away, it's you, mate. Your pathetic argument has been torn to shreds multiple times and yet you reprise it like a broken record. I'll just repeat this: I provided a map of all the kingdoms of ancient Sudan -- kingdoms that were contemporaries of ancient Egypt. The word "Nubian" is applied to all of them and this is where the confusion arises. There was no kingdom or entity called "Nubia" in ancient times. There were no people (s) called "Nubians". These "Nubians" spoke different languages (belonging to different linguistic groups) and had markedly different physical appearances. The ancient Egyptians specified the various kingdoms and people of the South and used terms like Kush, Setjau, Wawat, Medjay, Irem, Kaau and so on; some of these people exactly resembled the ancient Egyptians while others looked like the pitch-black Dinka or the Nuba of Kordofan. Some of Egypt's Southern neighbours [those to the immediate South] very closely resembled the ancient Egyptians. Those further South did not. "Nubia" is a corruption of the ancient Egyptian word Nubt -- a word for gold. There was a city in Upper Egypt called Nubti, which would have been the original Nubia. Lower "Nubians" and Puntites from Northeast Sudan or Eritrea were identical to the ancient Egyptians and were both distinct from the "Nubians" much further afield. The "Nubians" in Upper Egypt and Northeast Sudan were ethnically the closest people to the ancient Egyptians in or outside Africa. These are the people of Punt (modern day Northeast Sudan or the Horn) and they resemble the ancient Egyptians: [URL=http://s328.photobucket.com/user/takhent/media/Punt2_zps3rva6xzr.jpg.html] [IMG]http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l347/takhent/Punt2_zps3rva6xzr.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s328.photobucket.com/user/takhent/media/Puntites3_zpsrzjbvxy9.jpg.html] [IMG]http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l347/takhent/Puntites3_zpsrzjbvxy9.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s328.photobucket.com/user/takhent/media/punt5_zps9vmqbcwe.jpg.html] [IMG]http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l347/takhent/punt5_zps9vmqbcwe.jpg[/IMG][/URL] And these are ancient Egyptian soldiers and sailors [IMG]http://www.experience-ancient-egypt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ancient-egyptian-soldiers-EAE.jpg[/IMG] [URL=http://s328.photobucket.com/user/takhent/media/08010423_zps4u2kzxp4.jpg.html] [IMG]http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l347/takhent/08010423_zps4u2kzxp4.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s328.photobucket.com/user/takhent/media/egyptian-soldiers-in-the-expedition-to-the-land-of-punt-temple-of-BNP7GX_zps79eectc9.jpg.html] [IMG]http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l347/takhent/egyptian-soldiers-in-the-expedition-to-the-land-of-punt-temple-of-BNP7GX_zps79eectc9.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Upper Egypt has had shared affinities with specific people in 'Nubia' for tens of thousands of years, and this is why specialists understand that 'Nubians' were ethnically the closest people to the ancient Egyptians since the predynastic period. Eurocentrics [ignorant, dishonest cretins] insist on creating an artificial dichotomy between the people of the South and the ancient Egyptians by presenting the pitch-black ancestors of the "Nuba" and the Dinka as the quintessential "Nubians" while ignoring people that so very closely resembled the ancient Egyptians. Here's a picture of a black man from Swaziland standing next to a Hematite mine and his skin tone matches the red ochre that we see used to represent the ancient Egyptians. Contrast him to a Dinka, and what he's not black anymore? [URL=http://s525.photobucket.com/user/kushkemet08/media/lioncavern_zpsmdan3q8w.jpg.html] [IMG]http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc332/kushkemet08/lioncavern_zpsmdan3q8w.jpg[/IMG][/URL] There is no evidence that Lower "Nubians" were ever distinguished from Upper Egyptians. Diodorus Siculus: "[b]The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians `are one of their colonies, which was led into Egypt by Osiris.[/b] They claim that at the beginning of the world Egypt was simply a sea but that the Nile, carrying down vast quantities of loam from Ethiopia in its flood waters, finally filled it in and made it part of the continent." Which is in line with this: "[b]Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant.[/b] "(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472 ) Pseudo Aristotle: "[b]Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians.[/b] But those who are excessively white are also cowards as we can see from the example of women, the complexion of courage is between the two." [/QB] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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