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I recently read that the yDNA of SSA as to E1b1a is less diverse than compared to those found outside Africa. Autosomally and the mtDNA in SSA is off the charts!!! However E1b1a is the only set of genes not MORE diverse than those found outside Africa. Why is that and what is the significance?
xyyman Member # 13597
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Pereira et al, Underhill et al and Pritchard et al
Tukuler Member # 19944
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What is E1b1a?
Use the mutation label.
the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I recently read that the yDNA of SSA as to E1b1a is less diverse than compared to those found outside Africa.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Pereira et al, Underhill et al and Pritchard et al
put up the quote please
xyyman Member # 13597
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eg Pereira et al 2002
quote: "With respect to the Y-binary markers, gene diversity was estimated to be 0±442³0±069, much lower than the average observed for Europeans (Pereira et al. 2001b)."
xyyman Member # 13597
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I am running down information on genetic make up of Islands off the coast of west Africa and came across that statement about Africans male lineage being less diverse and followed up with other papers. It seems like E1b1a is ONLY numerous but not diverse. I knew it was young about 5-7000ya and not as old as E1b1b* or yDNA A.
But here is another statement that confirmed my stance that the bantus expansion never occurred. I believe Sao tome and CapeVverde, Canary Islands and Mozambique hold the key to deciphering what happened in the past. Quote: "The western and eastern waves of Bantu migration seem to have shared a common founder set, but differ in haplotype frequencies, being slightly more diverse in the east"
the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: eg Pereira et al 2002
quote: "With respect to the Y-binary markers, gene diversity was estimated to be 0±442³0±069, much lower than the average observed for Europeans (Pereira et al. 2001b)." [/qb]
proper citation please, name of the article and periodical, that is not much to ask. I don't know why you skip that all the time, never have to ask Ish for that
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Pereira et al, Underhill et al and Pritchard et al
put up the quote please [/QB][/QUOTE]
Also are Underhill l and Pritchard referencing Pereira for that information or is that their own?
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [qb] If I suggested for one week May 28 through June 3rd
• no slander • full citations of sources • repeating in your own words what you dispute to make sure you understand a poster's view • leaving genetics alone when it's clear you're not up to speed
would you come to that ES party?
xyyman Member # 13597
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I am trying to get my hands on this paper
" Chromosome Y STRs analysis and evolutionary aspects for Portuguese speaking countries - Corte-Real
Tukuler Member # 19944
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Hey, I was just wondering if all the admirers of people who come on here just to pick fights out of nowhere would like to see how well their heroes fare in civil conversation with the respect they give white folks who disagree with them. Betcha Swenet never said chimp out to any of them just because they refused to subscribe to his faith and cry yes lord I believe to eevery beatitude he reveals from his high heavenly throne. His last 'expectation' strawmans were a piece of ass. You gonna take somebody to court? The judge will jail YOU if you don't name names.
People are not going to stand by and him lie about them.
There's no moderation and only a fool would try to mod a forum they can only delete or move posts and the owner never calls back.
the lioness, Member # 17353
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^ are you referring to anything in this thread? You asked for the mutation label, he ignored it
xyyman Member # 13597
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hand over the keys to AMRTU or Bass?
Tukuler Member # 19944
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Get keys from owner. Now leave me alone or shell out mutation labels so people won't get confused between 2006 and 2017.
the questioner Member # 22195
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: But here is another statement that confirmed my stance that the bantus expansion never occurred.
you may be right on that stance to a certain extent
the Bantu migration probably didn't occur from west to east but from east to west because every African tribe west of the Nile claim their ancestors are from the east
this may also explain the great diversity of the east compared to the west
Elmaestro Member # 22566
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Believe it or not the answer you seek maybe reeeeeeaal simple but not expected.
I won't say what it might be because someone else patented the idea before me so I'll pass the rock to beyoku
What I will say now though is that the pattern is more than solidified in terms of the east-west relationship of e1b1a. There wasn't a mass east-> west Bantu migration, nor vice versa. For the most part both sides of the continent received their share of the Bantu marker from latitudinal migrations.
The Malawi specimen that Thompson(2017) is holding on to will play a key role in understanding what went on.
the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: There wasn't a mass east-> west Bantu migration, nor vice versa. For the most part both sides of the continent received their share of the Bantu marker from latitudinal migrations.
how did bantu get to be in South Africa or did they start there?
the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I recently read that the yDNA of SSA as to E1b1a is less diverse than compared to those found outside Africa. Autosomally and the mtDNA in SSA is off the charts!!! However E1b1a is the only set of genes not MORE diverse than those found outside Africa. Why is that and what is the significance?
Punctuated bursts in human male demography inferred from 1,244 worldwide Y-chromosome sequences
G David Poznik ,2016
Of the clades resulting from the four deepest branching events, all but one are exclusive to Africa, and the TMRCA of all non-African lineages (that is, the TMRCA of haplogroups DE and CF) is ~76,000 years (Fig. 1, Supplementary Figs. 18 and 19, Supplementary Table 10, and Supplementary Note). We saw a notable increase in the number of lineages outside Africa ~50–55 kya, perhaps reflecting the geographical expansion and differentiation of Eurasian popula- tions as they settled the vast expanse of these continents. Consistent with previous proposals a parsimonious interpretation of the phylogeny is that the predominant African haplogroup, haplogroup E, arose outside the continent. This model of geographical segregation within the CT clade requires just one continental haplogroup exchange (E to Africa), rather than three (D, C, and F out of Africa). Furthermore, the timing of this putative return to Africa—between the emergence of haplogroup E and its differentiation within Africa by 58 kya—is consistent with proposals, based on non–Y chro- mosome data, of abundant gene flow between Africa and nearby regions of Asia 50–80 kya15.
Elmaestro Member # 22566
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: There wasn't a mass east-> west Bantu migration, nor vice versa. For the most part both sides of the continent received their share of the Bantu marker from latitudinal migrations.
how did bantu get to be in South Africa or did they start there?
It's hard for me to put "Bantu" & "start" in the same sentence but what I'm certain of, as far as evidence goes right now is that the south is the one place that it didn't originate. Both sides (east-west) share lineages with the southern Bantu groups though.
And there you go, by process of elimination you can probably put a model or even the whole story together.
Ish Gebor Member # 18264
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I recently read that the yDNA of SSA as to E1b1a is less diverse than compared to those found outside Africa. Autosomally and the mtDNA in SSA is off the charts!!! However E1b1a is the only set of genes not MORE diverse than those found outside Africa. Why is that and what is the significance?
quote: The current distribution of Bantu languages is commonly considered to be a consequence of a relatively recent population expansion (3-5kya) in Central Western Africa. While there is a substantial consensus regarding the centre of origin of Bantu languages (the Benue River Valley, between South East Nigeria and Western Cameroon), the identification of the area from where the population expansion actually started, the relation between the processes leading to the spread of languages and peoples and the relevance of local migratory events remain controversial. In order to shed new light on these aspects, we studied Y chromosome variation in a broad dataset of populations encompassing Nigeria, Cameroon, Gabon and Congo. Our results evidence an evolutionary scenario which is more complex than had been previously thought, pointing to a marked differentiation of Cameroonian populations from the rest of the dataset. In fact, in contrast with the current view of Bantu speakers as a homogeneous group of populations, we observed an unexpectedly high level of interpopulation genetic heterogeneity and highlighted previously undetected diversity for lineages associated with the diffusion of Bantu languages (E1b1a (M2) sub-branches). We also detected substantial differences in local demographic histories, which concord with the hypotheses regarding an early diffusion of Bantu languages into the forest area and a subsequent demographic expansion and migration towards eastern and western Africa.
--David Coma et al.
Mol Ecol. 2011 Jul;20(13):2693-708. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-294X.2011.05130.x. Epub 2011 Jun 1.
The Bantu expansion revisited: a new analysis of Y chromosome variation in Central Western Africa.
Not too long ago eurocentricks were claiming:
"E1b1a is an African lineage that expanded from northern Africa to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion." (Y-DNA Haplogroup E and its Subclades - 2012)
Fourty2Tribes Member # 21799
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For once the answer is in the Bible. Ham is Yam. An ancient nation with a large agricultural population falls to the dying Sahara. People spread in all directions as far east as Russia and as far west as America. I place Yam under the sands of western Chad to Niger.
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