...
Post A Reply
my profile
|
directory
login
|
register
|
search
|
faq
|
forum home
»
EgyptSearch Forums
»
Egyptology
»
Canary Island ancient DNA
» Post A Reply
Post A Reply
Login Name:
Password:
Message Icon:
Message:
HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] There is no evidence that the Berbers came from East Africa or speak an East African language The linguistic evidence makes it clear that Romans , Greeks and other Europeans have influenced the Berbers. Berber is an Afro-Asiatic language. The Afro-Asiatic languages do not exit. Egyptian and Berber languages do not share affinity. Examine this comparison of Berber and Egyptian by Obenga. [IMG]http://olmec98.net/berber1.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://olmec98.net/berber2.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://olmec98.net/berber3.png[/IMG] There is no cognation between Berber and Egyptian languages. There is also no cultural evidence collected that unite the Berbers and Egyptians. The Berbers only recently came to Siwan as discussed earlier. I have never read that Tuareg has any Indo-European elements. Tuareg, as opposed to the other Berber languages is closely related to Hausa and Songhay. Berber Languages [QUOTE] http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/july/berber.html Introduction The Berber, or Amazigh, people live in Northern Africa throughout the Mediterranean coast, the Sahara desert and Sahel which used to be a Berber world before the arrival of Arabs. Today, there are large groups of Berber people in Morocco and Algeria, important communitites in Mali, Niger and Libya, and smaller groups in Tunis, Mauritania, Burkina-Faso and Egypt. The Tuareg of the desert also belong to the Berber group. The Berber people speak 26 closely related languages. Consonants Berber consonants include: glottalized consonants, so called because the space between the vocal cords (glottis) is constricted during their pronunciation; implosive consonants produced with the air sucked inward; ejective consonants produced with the air "ejected" or forced out; geminate (doubled) consonants produced by holding them in position longer than for their single counterparts. Click here to listen to a Berber song recorded in Morocco. Grammar Noun phrase Berber nouns have two cases. One case is used for the subject of intransitive verbs, while the other is used for the subject of transitive verbs and objects of prepositions. There are two genders: masculine and feminine. The plural of nouns has a masculine and a feminine form. Verb phrase Verbs are marked for tense and aspect. The perfective of the verb is formed by reduplication of the second consonant of the root, or by the prefix -tt-. Vocabulary Most of the vocabulary is Berber in origin with borrowings from Latin, Arabic, French, Spanish, and other sub-Saharan languages. There is generally little or no intelligibility between the dialects. [/QUOTE]The Berber languages as pointed out by numerous authors is full of vocabulary from other languages. Many Berbers may be descendants of the Vandels (Germanic) speaking people who ruled North Africa and Spain for 400 years. Commenting on this reality Diop in [b] The African Origin of Civilization[/b] noted that:[b] “Careful search reveals that German feminine nouns end in t and st. Should we consider that Berbers were influenced by Germans or the referse? This hypothesis could not be rejected a priori, for German tribes in the fifth century overran North Africa vi Spain, and established an empire that they ruled for 400 years….Furthermore, the plural of 50 percent of Berber nouns is formed by adding en, as is the case with feminine nouns in German, while 40 percent form their plural in a, like neuter nouns in Latin. Since we know the Vandals conquered the country from the Romans, why should we not be more inclined to seek explanations for the Berbers in the direction, both linguistically and in physical appearance: blond hair, blue eyes, etc? But no! Disregarding all these facts, historians decree that there was no Vandal influence and that it would be impossible to attribute anything in Barbary to their occupation” (p.69). [/b] The influence of European languages on the Berber languages and the grammar of the Berber languages indicate that the Berbers are probably of European, especially Vandal origin. .. [IMG]http://www.croqnature.com/matlasfemmew.jpg[/IMG] . Andre Basset in [b]La Langue Berbere[/b], has discussed the I-E elements in the Berber languages. There is also a discussion of these elements in Schuchardt,[b] Die romanischen Lehnworter im Berberischen [/b](Wien,1918). Basset provides a few examples in his monograph. I have posted the page so you can examine the material yourself. The vocabulary among the Berbers is often disimilar.The early work on proto-Berber was based on Tuareg or Tamasheq. Construction of contemporary Berber is based on all the Berber languages. It is difficult to make claims Kabyle and Tamazight pre-history because much of the patoral-agricultural terms are based on Latin . [QUOTE][list] [*][b] [*]Table 2. Latin loans into Berber, Kabyl examples[/b] Kabyle Gloss Source fuṛaṛ février [February] Latin februaris yebrir avril [April] Latin aprilis maggu mai [May] Latin maius (mensis), with -i- > gg also attested in Arabic loanwords tubeṛ octobre [October] Latin october buğamber décembre, période de grand froid [December, period of cold] Latin december, although Kabyle has b- instead of dafalku faucon [hawk] Latin falco tagerfa corbeau [crow] Latin corvus. Dallet (1982: 272) assumes it is from Latin but possibly also be Arabic ġurba Ghadames ugerf, tugerft errigla règle (pour tracer) [(drawing) rule], also tarigla, montant vertical [vertical beam of weaving loom] Latin regula tberna taverne, cabaret [inn, pub] Latin taberna [b] Table 3. Latin loans in Kabyle relating to ox-ploughing [/b] Kabyle Gloss Source atmun timon (de la charrue) [plow beam] Latin timonem iger champ labouré et ensemencé [plowed and sown field] Latin ager ikerrez labourer [to plough] Latin carrus but of Gaulish origin tayerza labour [ploughed field] Perhaps Latin aro, or French herser < Latin herpic-. Given [/QUOTE] [/list] Roger Blench noted that: [QUOTE] Older Berber varieties were effectively eliminated through relexification, the gradual replacement of lexical and grammatical structures. It might be assumed that montane agricultural communities would not be subject to the same pressures, but their subsistence systems were also premised on borrowed Roman technology, the plough and orchard cultivation. They adopted the media lengua before transferring to mountainous areas. http://www.rogerblench.info/Archaeology/Africa/Berber%20prehistory%202012.pdf [/QUOTE]. [IMG]http://olmec98.net/Bassett2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://olmec98.net/Bassett1.jpg[/IMG] You can also consult Note di geografia linguistica berbera more ,by Vermondo Brugnatelli : http://unimib.academia.edu/VermondoBrugnatelli/Papers/1098593/Note_di_geografia_linguistica_berbera . . [IMG]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418BD7W11ML._SL500_AA300_.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://covers.openlibrary.org/b/id/3883742-L.jpg[/IMG] Obenga made it clear that AfroAsiatic does not exist and you can not reconstruct the Proto-language. This is true. Ehret (1995) and Orel/Stolbova (1995) were attempts at comparing Proto-AfroAsiatic. The most interesting fact about these works is that they produced different results. If AfroAsiatic existed they should have arrived at similar results. The major failur of these works is that there is too much synononymy. For example, the Proto-AfroAsiatic synonym for bird has 52 synonyms this is far too many for a single term and illustrates how the researchers just correlated a number of languages to produce a proto-form. This supports Obenga's view that you can not reconstruct Afro-Asiatic. It is assumed that if languages are related you should be able to reconstruct the proto-language of the language family. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Instant Graemlins
Instant UBB Code™
What is UBB Code™?
Options
Disable Graemlins in this post.
*** Click here to review this topic. ***
Contact Us
|
EgyptSearch!
(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com
Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3