Only Muhammad. You can continue to think Muhammad was a "Prophet" of your Allah
What a strange thing to say!!
"YOUR ALLAH" is the same God that Christians, jews, and many other religions worship.... just in different ways!
There is only one God.... call him Allah, Jehovah, whatever you want.... it's the same God!!!
No it is not. God in Islam is the same as with jews.But christians do it another way,they say that God has a triple nature,muslims and jews think that it is only one god with only one nature
There is only ONE, Christians just believe that Jesus IS that one. Just because they believe something different ABOUT God doesnt mean its a different one
In Islam Allah have one nature,HE is the creator. In christianity he is the son ,god and the holly ghost it is not the same thing
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Ahmad you are a new poster here on religion, just be informed that only you, Ayisha and myself are Muslim and believe in Issa son of Mariam to be a Muslim exactly like Muhammad pbuh, all the rest of posters are Christians or maybe one or more Jews like Unfinished thought, King and of_gold, all Christians are well balanced towards Islam, but the ones I've mentioned by name, have insulted and attacked Islam in every possible way...so please do not pay attention to this axis of evil, they are here to abolish Islam, but have failed repeatedly, they are mentioned in Surat Al Kafirun, as you posted. Take your precautions towards this trinity..
They ignore the facts,and I'm trying to give them true liks to learn about islam instead the sh!t they are reading. have you seen the the links I posted ,it replies for almost everything they posted Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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Also be aware Ahmed that there are numerous threads on here regarding Hadith which I have posted on many times. I do not have the time that I would like to dedicate to posting the same thing I have posted a million times already, but if its not IN Quran then its NOT from God/Allah.
I use the word God as I am English and the majority of posters here are English speakers and understand that name better.
People knew how to pray to Allah long before there were hadith telling you how and it IS mentioned in Quran about the times also.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: In Islam Allah have one nature,HE is the creator. In christianity he is the son ,god and the holly ghost it is not the same thing
In Islam He is also the benificent, the merciful, the sustainer, the judge, and many other names, 99 according to Quran, yet these are not just names they are attributes, AND He is the Creator. So in Islam He is many things or has many attributes.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Ahmad you are a new poster here on religion, just be informed that only you, Ayisha and myself are Muslim and believe in Issa son of Mariam to be a Muslim exactly like Muhammad pbuh, all the rest of posters are Christians or maybe one or more Jews like Unfinished thought, King and of_gold, all Christians are well balanced towards Islam, but the ones I've mentioned by name, have insulted and attacked Islam in every possible way...so please do not pay attention to this axis of evil, they are here to abolish Islam, but have failed repeatedly, they are mentioned in Surat Al Kafirun, as you posted. Take your precautions towards this trinity..
They ignore the facts,and I'm trying to give them true liks to learn about islam instead the sh!t they are reading. have you seen the the links I posted ,it replies for almost everything they posted
Sorry Ahmed, if you come here and try and say Hadith are 'Facts' you are onto a loser and are as misguided as the majority.I suppose you also think they are divine and protected by Allah from change?
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Ahmad you are a new poster here on religion, just be informed that only you, Ayisha and myself are Muslim and believe in Issa son of Mariam to be a Muslim exactly like Muhammad pbuh, all the rest of posters are Christians or maybe one or more Jews like Unfinished thought, King and of_gold, all Christians are well balanced towards Islam, but the ones I've mentioned by name, have insulted and attacked Islam in every possible way...so please do not pay attention to this axis of evil, they are here to abolish Islam, but have failed repeatedly, they are mentioned in Surat Al Kafirun, as you posted. Take your precautions towards this trinity..
They ignore the facts,and I'm trying to give them true liks to learn about islam instead the sh!t they are reading. have you seen the the links I posted ,it replies for almost everything they posted
Sorry Ahmed, if you come here and try and say Hadith are 'Facts' you are onto a loser and are as misguided as the majority.I suppose you also think they are divine and protected by Allah from change?
Yes ,they are also attributes. Excuse me ,but for the pray part,yes people were able to pray before Al-Hadeeth but Where did they took the practice? They took it from prophet Muhammad who said(take your religious pactices from me) Now,if me and you are arguing about something in the HOW of the pray,will we go to Quran? No,because the practice is not mentioned their.The only thing mentioned is TO PRAY,so we have go to AL-Hadeeth.got it? But for your second post I did not get it. who are the majority you are talking about? You also say that "you also think they are divine ....." who are they?the pronoun they refer to what?
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Ahmad you are a new poster here on religion, just be informed that only you, Ayisha and myself are Muslim and believe in Issa son of Mariam to be a Muslim exactly like Muhammad pbuh, all the rest of posters are Christians or maybe one or more Jews like Unfinished thought, King and of_gold, all Christians are well balanced towards Islam, but the ones I've mentioned by name, have insulted and attacked Islam in every possible way...so please do not pay attention to this axis of evil, they are here to abolish Islam, but have failed repeatedly, they are mentioned in Surat Al Kafirun, as you posted. Take your precautions towards this trinity..
They ignore the facts,and I'm trying to give them true liks to learn about islam instead the sh!t they are reading. have you seen the the links I posted ,it replies for almost everything they posted
Also be aware Ahmad that Dzosser is a liar. I have never insulted Muslims or Muhammad(pbuh).
Dzosser speaks badly of me and calls me names because I asked him questions on two separate occasions that he could not answer and he cussed me out. I have never called him names or cussed him even though he does this to me regularly.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Ahmad you are a new poster here on religion, just be informed that only you, Ayisha and myself are Muslim and believe in Issa son of Mariam to be a Muslim exactly like Muhammad pbuh, all the rest of posters are Christians or maybe one or more Jews like Unfinished thought, King and of_gold, all Christians are well balanced towards Islam, but the ones I've mentioned by name, have insulted and attacked Islam in every possible way...so please do not pay attention to this axis of evil, they are here to abolish Islam, but have failed repeatedly, they are mentioned in Surat Al Kafirun, as you posted. Take your precautions towards this trinity..
They ignore the facts,and I'm trying to give them true liks to learn about islam instead the sh!t they are reading. have you seen the the links I posted ,it replies for almost everything they posted
Sorry Ahmed, if you come here and try and say Hadith are 'Facts' you are onto a loser and are as misguided as the majority.I suppose you also think they are divine and protected by Allah from change?
Yes ,they are also attributes. Excuse me ,but for the pray part,yes people were able to pray before Al-Hadeeth but Where did they took the practice? They took it from prophet Muhammad who said(take your religious pactices from me)
No because Muhammed wasnt around BEFORE to tell them that and Quran says we make no distinction among any of the prophets and I dont think Muhammed taught Abraham, Moses or Jesus to pray did he.
quote:Now,if me and you are arguing about something in the HOW of the pray,will we go to Quran?
what is there to argue about HOW to pray??
quote:No,because the practice is not mentioned their.The only thing mentioned is TO PRAY,so we have go to AL-Hadeeth.got it?
If the 'practice' is not there then its not relevant, unless you think Allah forgot to put some things in Quran? got it?
quote:But for your second post I did not get it. who are the majority you are talking about? You also say that "you also think they are divine ....." who are they?the pronoun they refer to what?
They refers to hadith, the majority refers to the majority of Muslims
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: If the 'practice' is not there then its not relevant, unless you think Allah forgot to put some things in Quran? got it?
Ayisha: you must understand that Quran is a miracle not a physics ,medicine,or any kind of educational book.Quran is not a tutorial about Islam,you can not just read it and say I understand Islam.In fact if you read it,then you get a few things to understands and millions of questions to ask. As I said ,Islam is not religion,It is a style of living and the religion is the core of it. And this is true,the practice was not mentioned in Al-Quran(Allah did not tell us how to bend down,what to say when we are praying). Imagine the amount of Quran that would require if Allah told us everything single detail to do(every single detail in your life,how to salute,how to eat,how to clean up,... ),here comes the role of Prophet Muhammad to Clarify ,explain,illustrate and practice. That is way to enter Islam you must beleive in Muhammad (there is no god but Allah,and Muhammad is the last messenger of Allah). Quran just gives you the outlines, give you the clues for your life.(remeber Islam is style of living). Quran however gives you deep details and explantions about the uniqueness of Allah,the core of Islam. Allah did not forgot to put it there ,everything is there but it is the function of the messenger to clarify.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: No because Muhammed wasnt around BEFORE to tell them that and Quran says we make no distinction among any of the prophets and I dont think Muhammed taught Abraham, Moses or Jesus to pray did he.
All we know about the trip is Prophet Muhammad Prayed and they were praying after him,but did not know how it was,did not know what he was reading,no-one knows how was the pray,was it islamic? The story of the trip and the the trip to The 7th sky is a symbol(it really happened,but I think you are missing the symbol)the symbol when all prophets pray after him and Prophet Muhammad is Al-Emam is that they learn from him,they already have some pieces of this great religion and Prophet Muhammad came to complete their message,and when he came this was a sign for the completion of the heavenly messages and The end of all messengers.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: if you come here and try and say Hadith are 'Facts' you are onto a loser and are as misguided as the majority
yes of course true Hadeeth is facts and who does not beleive in that is wrong there is a verse in Quran that translates as follows" (he does not say what he wants,it is just revelation I tell him)"---he refers to prophet Muhammad,-----I refers to Allah.
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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o_g you prove yourself to be more and more daft the more you post..what questions are you talking about ?? I cannot recall all the drivel you posted..when was this ? Do you really need my explanation about Islam ? You cannot read a word of Arabic to argue my knowledge of the Qur'an, in case I'd like to give you an answer..so why ask me for any facts about the Qur'an ? If I answered you out of the real thing, would you get to what I'm saying ? You are not asking to learn, you are simply defying me to try and show off, since obviously you've prepared tons of nonesense out of the web and need to trigger a Muslim to spit it out. Sorry to have spoilt your plot Don't try improving your image to a new poster who doesn't give an ant's butt of what and who you are, it looks bad for an old woman of your age whose posted more than 3000 dumb posts.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: [qb] If the 'practice' is not there then its not relevant, unless you think Allah forgot to put some things in Quran? got it?
Ayisha: you must understand that Quran is a miracle not a physics ,medicine,or any kind of educational book.Quran is not a tutorial about Islam,you can not just read it and say I understand Islam.In fact if you read it,then you get a few things to understands and millions of questions to ask.
so Allah lied when he said Quran was complete?
quote:As I said ,Islam is not religion,It is a style of living and the religion is the core of it.
Also when he said 'this day I have perfected your 'religion' and completed my favour upon you and I name your 'religon' Islam'?
quote:And this is true,the practice was not mentioned in Al-Quran(Allah did not tell us how to bend down,what to say when we are praying). Imagine the amount of Quran that would require if Allah told us everything single detail to do(every single detail in your life,how to salute,how to eat,how to clean up,... ),here comes the role of Prophet Muhammad to Clarify ,explain,illustrate and practice.
So you dont believe Abraham and Moses and Jesus and all the prophets were Muslims if they didnt pray the same as Muhammed??
quote:That is way to enter Islam you must beleive in Muhammad (there is no god but Allah,and Muhammad is the last messenger of Allah).
When the messenger first took the message from Allah NO ONE said that, ALL they said was La illaha illa Allah, there is no God but Allah. The REAL shahadah does NOT include Muhammed. If it did then Muhammed was either NOT considered a Muslim or had to declare a belief in himself.
quote:Quran just gives you the outlines, give you the clues for your life.(remeber Islam is style of living).
But Allah says its COMPLETE and we dont need anything after it. should I believe YOU or should I believe ALLAH?
quote:Quran however gives you deep details and explantions about the uniqueness of Allah,the core of Islam.
This IS ISLAM.
quote:Allah did not forgot to put it there ,everything is there but it is the function of the messenger to clarify.
Which messenger? Allah says we make no distinction among them.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
No because Muhammed wasnt around BEFORE to tell them that and Quran says we make no distinction among any of the prophets and I dont think Muhammed taught Abraham, Moses or Jesus to pray did he.
quote:All we know about the trip is Prophet Muhammad Prayed and they were praying after him,but did not know how it was,did not know what he was reading,no-one knows how was the pray,was it islamic?
of course it was, they were Muslims! do you really think if you dont put your feet right in prayer or have your head to far from the floor or dont say Allahu Akbar when bending and rising your prayer will not be accepted as 'Islamic'???
quote:The story of the trip and the the trip to The 7th sky is a symbol(it really happened,but I think you are missing the symbol)the symbol when all prophets pray after him and Prophet Muhammad is Al-Emam is that they learn from him,they already have some pieces of this great religion and Prophet Muhammad came to complete their message,and when he came this was a sign for the completion of the heavenly messages and The end of all messengers.?
I didnt say anything about a trip. Abraham is the father of Islam, he was Muslim, he prayed, so did Jesus and all the prophets, they were all muslims. Do you think the 'trip' was for Muhammed to go and teach Islam to some of the greatest prophets of God because they didnt KNOW?? You have a very narrow view of Allah.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: if you come here and try and say Hadith are 'Facts' you are onto a loser and are as misguided as the majority
quote:yes of course true Hadeeth is facts and who does not beleive in that is wrong there is a verse in Quran that translates as follows" (he does not say what he wants,it is just revelation I tell him)"---he refers to prophet Muhammad,-----I refers to Allah.
That verse in Quran is refering to QURAN, not hadith. Hadith are NOT facts. Bukhari wasnt born until over 200 years after the death of Muhammed and after the whole 'science of hadith' we are left with LESS THAN 1% that MIGHT be Sahih? In YOUR opinion anyonw who doesnt believe in hadith is wrong, in MY opinion you are wrong. what about the hadith where Muhammed said 'do not write anything from me but Quran'? What about the hadith that say Abu Bakr BURNT over 500 hadith he had collected in FEAR OF ALLAH? What aout the hadith that prescribe STONING to death for adultery where ALLAH clearly says LASHING in Quran? what about the ones that are still considered Sahih yet contradict each other? These are NOT facts and are NOT part of the message from God and are added by MEN, which Allah CLEARLY warns against in Quran. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: so Allah lied when he said Quran was complete?
No.Allah did not (A'ozo Bellah) tell me the verse and I will explain it you as I do not know what verse are you taking about.(if yu do not belive me ask Dzosser if he can speak Arabic)
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Also when he said 'this day I have perfected your 'religion' and completed my favour upon you and I name your 'religon' Islam'?
I know this verse ,it explains like this, "Now I have completed the Quran,And Muhammad has shown you your religious and daily life practices " The word religion in arabic does mean a lot of things one of them is the ordinary meaning you understand ,the other is to think of the verse as it was addressing the fact that Muslims of that time has seen prophet Muhammad and learned every thing from him(ask Dzosser if you do not beleive me) so it generally means that I have finished my traing to you.and there is nothing of more Quran will be revealed to you. Indeed ,it was the last verse of Quran which was revealed to prophet Muhammad
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: So you dont believe Abraham and Moses and Jesus and all the prophets were Muslims if they didnt pray the same as Muhammed??
I beleive they are Muslims ,of course. But take care about the meaning Allah says that Abbraham was muslim,it does not mean literally he was muslim doing all the practices the today muslim do,The word Muslim means that (he gave his soul to Allah and was worshipping Allah with of all of him.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: When the messenger first took the message from Allah NO ONE said that, ALL they said was La illaha illa Allah, there is no God but Allah. The REAL shahadah does NOT include Muhammed. If it did then Muhammed was either NOT considered a Muslim or had to declare a belief in himself
No of course not,IT IS PART OF Al-Shahada(ask Dzozzer or any true muslim)
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: But Allah says its COMPLETE and we dont need anything after it. should I believe YOU or should I believe ALLAH?
tell me the verse and I will explain to you
of course it was, they were Muslims! do you really think if you dont put your feet right in prayer or have your head to far from the floor or dont say Allahu Akbar when bending and rising your prayer will not be accepted as 'Islamic'???
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: of course it was, they were Muslims! do you really think if you dont put your feet right in prayer or have your head to far from the floor or dont say Allahu Akbar when bending and rising your prayer will not be accepted as 'Islamic'???
What am trying to say is that we really do not how Prophet Muhammad prayed beacuse in Islam we have more than one type of pray The traditional pray(5 times a day),Al-Janazah pray(we pray it when we bury the dead)and Al-Eid(after Ramadan) so we do not know exactly.But most Hadeeth say that it was the the traditional one.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: That verse in Quran is refering to QURAN, not hadith. Hadith
I know it is from Quran ,that is what I say. Prohet Muhammad never told us to NOT write his saying,who told you this. if tou do not agree with me go to this site http://www.islamic-council.org/ and look at the Islamic pillars at the left here is a brief
This pillars are presented in Hadith (Prophet saying) "Islam is based on five requirements :
Testifying that "Allah is One and Muhammed is His Prophet" , Prayer Poor Due Fasting the month of Ramadan and , Pilgrimage to Mecca for these who can afford it."
This site the official site for Egyptian ministry of Awkaf.you can get their a trusted resorses if you do not beleive me the download section a wide variety of downloads.one of which is an explained copy of Quran
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: what about the hadith where Muhammed said 'do not write anything from me but Quran'?
You quote a hadith to disprove the Ahadith?
I chose to quote from the Quran: Allah has made Muhammad an excellent example for the believers to follow…33:21
You presuppose that Muhammad prohibited his companions from writing hadith all his life. There is no basis for that claim. People used to tell stories from the Bible and Muhammad did not like competition, he denigrated the scriptures of previous messengers who he had already acknowledged as true and said they are corrupted, then he said that the Quran is "the best story" (haidth) (39:23) meaning instead of paying attention to other traditions, listen to me only. But he never said do not write anything about me and my life. Muhammad was a narcissist. He considered himself to be the center of the universe. He told everyone to emulate him. Do you have a verse of the Quran to prove your point? As I quoted from the Quran, he claimed to be a "good example to follow" and have "an exalted standard of character" 68.4 How can Muslims follow his examples if they are not recorded?
As for following the example of Abraham, Abraham's character was known to Arabs through the fables that they used to tell each other about the prophets of the past. Without Arab's knowledge of Abraham the Quran would not have made sense to them. For example if I advise you to be like Job, and if you do not know Job and what happened to him my words to you means nothing. For Muslims to be able to follow the examples (sunna) of their prophet they need to know about his life. The reason you are so adamant to reject all the hadiths is because you already know what this man did was bad. You so desperately want to lie to yourself and cling to Muhammad.
The early Muslims did not need narrations about him because they had seen him themselves. But soon after he died, they went to Aisha and others asking about him so they could emulate him. There is no logical reason to believe that his companions started lying from day one and never said a word of truth. What we have is all there is. There is no other version of the history of Islam and Muhammad.
We know about Socrates because Plato wrote about him. So far no own is questioning what Plato said nor is calling him a liar. But if people start doubting Plato call him a liar who fabricated stories and passed them as truth (basically what you say about the biographers of Muhammad) then we cannot be sure that Socrates existed. All we know about Socrates is through Plato and if he is found to be a liar then his story about Socrates could also be a lie.
Muhammad cannot possibly be a Prophet of God. Zhuang zi said "The wise man teaches not by words but by actions." And you tell me the actions of Muhammad are irrelevant and what counts are his words? That even though he lived like a criminal he can teach us to live like saints? Look at the sainthood of the Islamic world. If you are a good person it's because you deny the hadidth, reinterpret the Quran and twist its meanings and refuse to live the way Muhammad lived or follow his examples. But are you truly a Muslim?
How can darkness brighten the world? How can ignorance impart knowledge? How can vice produce virtue? How can hate promote love? How can Jihad bring peace?
"The superior man acts before he speaks, and afterwards speaks according to his actions", said Confucius. Is that how Muhammad lived?
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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Hmm..interesting post UT, but why the fvck do you care if Muhammad pbuh told his followers not to quote him ? He gave them the Qur'an you twerp, that's good enough, it still sells like hot cakes.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Ahmad the surah is Al Ma'eda verse 3, we ba3dein 3awzak teshoof surat Al 3IMRAN min aya 61 leghayet 85..shoof elnassara 3amalo eih.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: so Allah lied when he said Quran was complete?
No.Allah did not (A'ozo Bellah) tell me the verse and I will explain it you as I do not know what verse are you taking about.(if yu do not belive me ask Dzosser if he can speak Arabic)
006.114 YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt. PICKTHAL: Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.
041.003 YUSUFALI: A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;-
if its fully detailed then its complete, no?
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Also when he said 'this day I have perfected your 'religion' and completed my favour upon you and I name your 'religon' Islam'?
I know this verse ,it explains like this, "Now I have completed the Quran,And Muhammad has shown you your religious and daily life practices "
005.003 YUSUFALI: Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Nothing like your interpretation!!
quote:The word religion in arabic does mean a lot of things one of them is the ordinary meaning you understand ,the other is to think of the verse as it was addressing the fact that Muslims of that time has seen prophet Muhammad and learned every thing from him(ask Dzosser if you do not beleive me) so it generally means that I have finished my traing to you.and there is nothing of more Quran will be revealed to you. Indeed ,it was the last verse of Quran which was revealed to prophet Muhammad
Yes its Allah saying He has finished giving the Quran. He did not say thats the Quran part finished now carry on with hadith.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: So you dont believe Abraham and Moses and Jesus and all the prophets were Muslims if they didnt pray the same as Muhammed??
I beleive they are Muslims ,of course. But take care about the meaning Allah says that Abbraham was muslim,it does not mean literally he was muslim doing all the practices the today muslim do,The word Muslim means that (he gave his soul to Allah and was worshipping Allah with of all of him.
Yes thats what a Muslim is according to Allah and Quran, the fact that man has added bits later does not mean the original meaning of Islam and Muslim has changed it just means you have changed it FROM what Allah said. Allah said Abraham was Muslim and the prophets were Muslim then THATS the 'muslim' I want to be, not the made up 'Muslim' you say I should be.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: When the messenger first took the message from Allah NO ONE said that, ALL they said was La illaha illa Allah, there is no God but Allah. The REAL shahadah does NOT include Muhammed. If it did then Muhammed was either NOT considered a Muslim or had to declare a belief in himself
No of course not,IT IS PART OF Al-Shahada(ask Dzozzer or any true muslim)
'true muslim'??? oh so in YOUR opinion and by YOUR judgement I am NOT a 'true Muslim'??
Read up on Tawhid, the shahadah is to declare there is no God but GOD. bas, khalas. The WHOLE point of Tawhid is the ONENESS of Allah not Allah AND another one.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: But Allah says its COMPLETE and we dont need anything after it. should I believe YOU or should I believe ALLAH?
tell me the verse and I will explain to you
see above
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: of course it was, they were Muslims! do you really think if you dont put your feet right in prayer or have your head to far from the floor or dont say Allahu Akbar when bending and rising your prayer will not be accepted as 'Islamic'???
What am trying to say is that we really do not how Prophet Muhammad prayed beacuse in Islam we have more than one type of pray The traditional pray(5 times a day),Al-Janazah pray(we pray it when we bury the dead)and Al-Eid(after Ramadan) so we do not know exactly.But most Hadeeth say that it was the the traditional one.
you dont know exactly yet you fire accusing questions at me?
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: That verse in Quran is refering to QURAN, not hadith. Hadith
I know it is from Quran ,that is what I say.
I said it REFERS TO Quran, not that it was from Quran, I KNOW its from Quran It means the QURAN was recited to muhammed and THAT is what Muhammed recited to others that is not of his own self as its from Allah.
quote:Prohet Muhammad never told us to NOT write his saying,who told you this. if tou do not agree with me go to this site http://www.islamic-council.org/ and look at the Islamic pillars at the left here is a brief
This pillars are presented in Hadith (Prophet saying) "Islam is based on five requirements :
Testifying that "Allah is One and Muhammed is His Prophet" , Prayer Poor Due Fasting the month of Ramadan and , Pilgrimage to Mecca for these who can afford it."
This site the official site for Egyptian ministry of Awkaf.you can get their a trusted resorses if you do not beleive me the download section a wide variety of downloads.one of which is an explained copy of Quran
"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Muslim)
reminder: 006.114 YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt. PICKTHAL: Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: o_g you prove yourself to be more and more daft the more you post..what questions are you talking about ?? I cannot recall all the drivel you posted..when was this ?
posted
ok. This will be a series which I am going to publish to show the facts. I will now prove the authenticity of the Traditions of the Prophet. Some people doubt the authenticity of the traditions of the Prophet. For example, Goldziher considers them to be the invention of Muslims in the early time of Islam. The answer to all these allegations is as follows: 1-The Prophet's Traditions are the second source of the Faith of Islam after the Qur'an. The Prophet was commanded by God to relate to all the people everything that had been inspired to him by God and in addition the explanation of the Qur'an's verses. [5/67, 16/44, 64]. The Prophet's interpretation of the Qur'an, his conduct, his actions, and his advice are all essential elements of his Traditions. The Prophet himself referred to the necessity of adhering to his traditions in his famous farewell speech in which he said: "I have left two matters for you, and if you adhere to them both you will never be misled. They are God's Book, the Qur'an, and my Traditions". Remember there is a verse in Quran (will be stated below shortly)explains as"What Prophet Muhammad gave you, take it and what he told you to leave ,leave it" 2-There is no denying that there are many false fabricated traditions and sayings that have been attributed to the Prophet, but the learned scholars of Islam were always aware of this possibility and accordingly scrutinized every single tradition attributed to the Prophet. The Qur'an has stated the most important method for judging any matter, namely: "O you who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth..." [49/6]. The personality, character, and conduct of the person who relates the tradition are important factors to be taken into consideration when judging the authenticity of his version of the Tradition. This rule has assisted the Muslims who applied it to the people who narrated the Prophet's Traditions. This method of criticism has led to the development of the science of historical research. 3-As a result of the importance of the Prophet's Traditions, Muslim scholars have done their utmost to confirm the authentic Traditions and to reject the false and fabricated versions. They also established new branches of learning related to the Traditions of the Prophet. These new branches of learning include the science of ascription, of challenging and contesting a point of investigating the character, conduct, way of life, and the credibility of those who related the Traditions of the Prophet. The Prophet Muhammad had warned the people of attributing any false sayings or actions to him saying: "He who attributes falsehoods to me intentionally shall dwell in the fire of Hell". 4-One of the many scholars who devoted their life to the study of authenticating the Prophet's Traditions is Imam Al-Bukhari (810-870 H.). He collected more than half a million traditions attributed to the Prophet, which he scrutinized, examined, and studied painstakingly and methodically. After applying the strict academic elimination of doubted traditions, he finally approved of only nine thousand Traditions. If we omit the Traditions which convey the same meaning we are left with only three thousand traditions. Other Muslim scholars followed Al-Bukhari's method of authenticating the traditions that they studied. 5-Following the painstaking efforts made by the Muslim scholars to authenticate the Traditions, six books on the Prophet's Traditions were approved and acknowledged. They are entitled: Bukhart's Authentic Traditions, Muslim's Authentic Traditions, The Prophet's Traditions by Al-Nasa'ey, by Abu Dawood, by AlTirmidhy, and by Ibn Maja. There are also many books which mention and reject tens of thousands of unauthenticated and fabricated traditions. Thus it is evident that the Muslim scholars have studied and authenticated the Prophet's Traditions with unparalleled devotion and accuracy and that casting any doubt upon this matter is totally unjustified.
Another Question Are there any contradictions in the Sayings of the Prophet?
One of the main objections against the authenticity of the Traditions of the Prophet is the allegation that they contain contradictions. Therefore, I would like to add the following reflections to my argumentation in the preceding section of this chapter. 1-The Qur'an commands Muslims to be guided by what the Prophet said and did and to consider him as their ideal. This is stated in the following Qur'anic verses: "He who obeys the Prophet obeys God" [4/80]. "So take what the Prophet assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you". [59/7]. The Prophet's Traditions include all that the Prophet permitted us to do and all that he forbade us to do. Therefore, the Traditions of the Prophet are an essential part of the faith of Islam, and if we neglect to abide by them we will be wilfully disobeying the Qur'an. 2-There is no difficulty in distinguishing an authentic Tradition from unauthentic or fabricated traditions after the Muslim Scholars laid down the rules in this matter several centuries ago. As we already mentioned in the last section, we can never dispense with the Prophet's Traditions since they are the second source of the faith of Islam. We must adhere to the teachings stated in the Traditions and realize that any doubt concerning contradictory traditions can be clarified by applying the method and the rules established by the Muslim scholars, which enable one to distinguish the authentic tradition from the unauthentic and fabricated ones. 3-The Traditions of the Prophet are the most precise interpretation of the verses of the Qur'an by the Prophet himself; so how can we possibly dispense with them because of imaginary reasons? Muslims perform their daily prayers according to the manner and instructions described in detail in the Traditions of the Prophet. The manner of performing one's prayers is not mentioned in the Qur'an, and there are many other similar matters that are explained in the Traditions. 4-The scriptures of the divine religions that preceded Islam were written in a manner and style similar to that of the Prophet's Traditions, yet none of the followers of these religions (Jews and Christians) demanded that they should be rejected as a result of the inconsistency that exists in certain religious observances and the lack of authenticity concerning some events. Such matters must be studied objectively, and authentic proofs concerning inconsistent narratives must be sought and this is the method that was established and followed by Muslim scholars centuries ago.
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Dalia, have you got anything to hand, im too tired with going round in circles
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: o_g you prove yourself to be more and more daft the more you post..what questions are you talking about ?? I cannot recall all the drivel you posted..when was this ?
Yes I answered your question but you couldn't figure out the Arabic text since it says on Surat Al Ahzab #33 verse 40..
"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things."
I then pointed out that a translation isn't like the original text, since Yusuf Ali used the word 'SEAL' to indicate the translation of 'KHATEM', which in Arabic has 3 different meanings, one is a seal, like in a fastener providing a perfect closure, or could also mean a ring you wear in your finger, or it could mean the one who comes at the very last of a sequence of events, and ends their sequence..and this is what it should be. Now why did I choose the last? Simply because I can understand it from the Arabic text, since its my mother tongue, without any confusion, but if I were reading a translation, it wouldn't have reached me in the same way..that's why you never knew that Muhammad pbuh was the last of the prophets because you read from translations, which aren't accurate like the original. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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But Seal does mean something closed in English, closed, the end, the last, sealed.
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Here is your answer to me. I don't see any Arabic (your mother tounge) there.
I also don't see a verse from the Quran as being proof. First of all you did not answer the whole question. Second the Bible does not speak of a prophet of God to follow Jesus. You should be able to show prophesy in the previous religious text to back your claim.
So how do you know that Muhammad(pbuh) was the last prophet? What was his message? What did he do to show that he was a prophet?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Muslims claim God has no partners, but in reality they associate Muhammad as God's partner. The Quran is full of injunctions telling the believers to love Allah and his messenger, obey Allah and his messenger, loot and bring a fifth of the spoils for Allah and his messenger, etc. Muhammad even claimed that in the Day of Judgment he will sit next to Allah interceding on behalf of the believers. In other words he would act as a counselor to Allah advising the almighty, how to do his job, whom to punish and whom to reward.
Can a person believe in God and not in Muhammad? According to Muhammad such person is still a kafir. Therefore it is clear that despite Muhammad's claim he actually elevated himself to the rank of the partner of God to such an extent that even the belief in God without the belief in his partner is not accepted. Muslims can criticize Allah but no one can criticize Muhammad. Doesn't this show that Muhammad is even above Allah?
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Here is your answer to me. I don't see any Arabic (your mother tounge) there.
I also don't see a verse from the Quran as being proof. First of all you did not answer the whole question. Second the Bible does not speak of a prophet of God to follow Jesus. You should be able to show prophesy in the previous religious text to back your claim.
So how do you know that Muhammad(pbuh) was the last prophet? What was his message? What did he do to show that he was a prophet?
Ok gold. I will answer your question but Yoy will have to read all the posts in Succesion . I warn you this will be a loooooooooong posts and will take a lot of my efforts and time. Moreover ,it will take a lot of your time than mine. So,keep tight. shooting has just begun.
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by unfinished thought.: Muslims claim God has no partners, but in reality they associate Muhammad as God's partner. The Quran is full of injunctions telling the believers to love Allah and his messenger, obey Allah and his messenger, loot and bring a fifth of the spoils for Allah and his messenger, etc. Muhammad even claimed that in the Day of Judgment he will sit next to Allah interceding on behalf of the believers. In other words he would act as a counselor to Allah advising the almighty, how to do his job, whom to punish and whom to reward.
Can a person believe in God and not in Muhammad? According to Muhammad such person is still a kafir. Therefore it is clear that despite Muhammad's claim he actually elevated himself to the rank of the partner of God to such an extent that even the belief in God without the belief in his partner is not accepted. Muslims can criticize Allah but no one can criticize Muhammad. Doesn't this show that Muhammad is even above Allah?
Allah does not need any counsler. And prophet Muhammad(pbuh) will not play that role .You just tell bullsh!t. You just keep explainig Quran As you like and keep our brian in headache
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I warn all people in this thread this will be very long articles and you have to read them all,if you want to understand that prophet Muhammad(pbuh)was the last prophet
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The Muslim approach to Comparative Religion is quite different from the Christian approach. The Christian is brought up to believe that his religion is the only true one, with Judaism as a preparation for Christianity, and that all other religions are false. He thinks that God has chosen and set apart the children of Israel for the Purpose of revealing. His Messages and sending His Prophets. And so, he believes only in the Prophets and religious teachers of Israel and looks upon all other claimanats to prophethood as impostors. Christian missionaries have all Ilclng employed their energies at Proving the holy founders of,othe.r religions to the false and wicked men, so that they might establish the unique claim of Jesus Christ. One has only to read their books about the Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and his religion to find how their religious Preconceptions and prejudices have made them incapable of seeing the truth of others. They have not hesitated even to mistranslate the Holy Qur'an and spread many misstatements about the Prophet Muhammad to serve their own purpose. If they find anything in another religion resembling some thing in their own, instead of feeling happy, they feel discouraged and has-ten to explain it away as due to Christian influence. The Muslim, on the other hand, believes in the divine origin of all the great religions of the world. The SacNd book of Islam declares that God has raised Prophets in every nation to guide the people to the path of truth and righteousness. Being the loving Creator and Sustainer of all the worlds. He cannot become partial and choose one nation to the exclusion of all others for revealing. His Messages.A Muslim must believe in the founders of all the great religions. He may feel sorry to see how the Jews and the Christians have in part forsaken and altered the true teachings of Moses and Jessus, but he can never speak against the holy Prophets of those religions. For, he has been directed by the Holy Qur'an to believe in them as true. and righteous Prophets of God. He has the same respect and love for them as he has for Prophet Muhammad. It is, therefore, with a feeling of profound love and respect for both Jesus and Muhammad, and for the religions which they preached, that I embark upon a comparative study of Islam and Christianity. If at times I find myself disagreeing with the Christians, it is not over the religion of Jesus, but over the altered shape and, features that it developed after the departure of Christ. In the words of Lord Headley, Islam and Christianity. as taught by Christ him self, are sister religions, only held apart by dogmas and technicalities which might very well be dispensed with.
to be continued......
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I warn all people in this thread this will be very long articles and you have to read them all,if you want to understand that prophet Muhammad(pbuh)was the last prophet
it doesnt need long articles, we got the verse from Quran short and simple. we have enough copy/paste robots on here already Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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I have just decided that my episode should be started in new thread Called Islam and Christianity
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I warn all people in this thread this will be very long articles and you have to read them all,if you want to understand that prophet Muhammad(pbuh)was the last prophet
it doesnt need long articles, we got the verse from Quran short and simple. we have enough copy/paste robots on here already
it is not copy/paste.I have read the whole thread and I see lot of misunderstanding,I am not the guy who just keep insulting people around,there will be Quran(first source of faith) Hadith(second source of faith) Al-Hadeeth Al-Qudsy(third source of faith) it is not going be simple
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-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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why make it complicated when Allah said it is simple?
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Ayisha, Your explanation only works if the person you are talking to believes that the Quran is Gods word.
I want to hear what Ahmed has to say.
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: So how do you know that Muhammad(pbuh) was the last prophet? What was his message? What did he do to show that he was a prophet?
Also what proof we have that it was not Satan who visited Muhammad disguised as Gabriel? He did fool him once. Can we prove this ghost whom Muhammad said was brining messages from Allah was not Satan? Of course we can't.
But we can prove that whatever Muhammad was not a real messenger of God. All we have to do is point to his deeds, assassinations, looting etc
If my father tells me: 'go my son, kill our neighbors, loot them and enslave their wives and daughters for me', I would certainly try to find out if he is truly my father. I don't follow a man just because he claims to be my father. Did you check Muhammad's credentials? Who told you he is a prophet? In the case of your father, at least you have the words of your mother.
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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o_g.. I've posted the Surat Al Ahzab 33:40 somewhere, can't recall when, but it says that Muhammad pbuh is the seal of prophets..now for the part about the Bible not mentioning anything about a prophet to be after Issa son of Mariam, all I can say is that if you look at the link I've put down here, it clearly says that Waraqa Ibn Nawfal knew from all the ancient holy books he read throughout his life, that an 'Ahmad' was to come as a Prophet of Allah..here : Waraqa.
Naturally those books are hidden in the dungeons of the Vatican, so we cannot get to them..you can believe it or not. Muhammad pbuh was an illiterate person, yet spoke out the words of Allah to deliver the Qur'an to humankind, this is his miracle, nothing more..nobody can come up with such a brilliant Arabic expression of words like that of the Qur'an, since during that time there were poets of high caliber, who tried to produce something close to the Qur'an, but all have failed.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by unfinished thought.: [QUOTE] If my father tells me: 'go my son, kill our neighbors, loot them and enslave their wives and daughters for me', I would certainly try to find out if he is truly my father. I don't follow a man just because he claims to be my father. Did you check Muhammad's credentials? Who told you he is a prophet? In the case of your father, at least you have the words of your mother.
Now if your mother was lying to you about you being the son/daughter of your father, wouldn't that make you a fvcking bastard ?
In Islam Allah does not lie to send His word in the Qur'an, that's why we are Muslims, because we believe the words of Allah through Muhammad pbuh who faught only to defend Allah's word to humankind, this is the Jihad of its times. The looting and raping is a ritual of barbarians like the Crusades, Vikings, Romans, Persians, Mongols etc..Islam didn't invent this technique, it was practiced long before Islam showed up, and still is, check out what the 'white man' did to the Red Indians remember 'Soldier Blue'? And what the Serbs did in Bosnia and Kosovo. Muslims do not rape women, they capture them and treat them lawfully according to Allah's Sharia.
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The origins of Islam and the Quran are dubious. Most Quranic experts attribute the Qur'an in its current form to post-7th Century alterations. The consensus is:
Independent scholars studying the Qur'an and Hadith, have concluded that the Islamic scripture was not revealed to just one man, but was a compilation of later redactions and editions formulated by a group of men, over the course of a few hundred years. The Qur'an which we read today is not that which was in existence in the mid-seventh century, but is a product of the eighth and ninth centuries. It was not conceived in Mecca or Medina, but in Baghdad. It was then and there that Islam took on its identity and became a religion. Consequently, the formative stage of Islam was not within the lifetime of Muhammad but evolved over a period of 300 years.
Gerd Puin on Quranic Integrity:
Gerd Puin, a German scholar and the world's foremost authority on Qur'anic paleography, the study and scholarly interpretation of ancient manuscripts. He is a specialist in Arabic calligraphy:
My idea is that the Koran is a kind of cocktail of texts that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad. Many of them may even be a hundred years older than Islam itself. Even within the Islamic traditions there is a huge body of contradictory information, including a significant Christian substrate; one can derive a whole Islamic anti-history from them if one wants. The Qur'an claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,' or clear, but if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur'anic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur'an is not comprehensible, if it can't even be understood in Arabic, then it's not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid. Since the Qur'an claims repeatedly to be clear but is not-there is an obvious and serious contradiction. Something else must be going on.
The Qur'an tells us that Muhammad's critics caught him plagiarising traditions, folklore and Jewish and Christian scripture. Examples:
"We have heard this (before): if we wished, we could say (words) like these: these are nothing but tales of the ancients" (8:31). "Such things have been promised to us and to our fathers before! They are nothing but tales of the ancients!" (23:83)"
Different Qur'ans in Muhammad's Time
Islamic sources tell us that Muhammad's followers would argue because Muhammad provided contradicting versions of the Qur'an. A notable example appears in Bulhari's Hadith:
"Umar ibn Khattab [the second Caliph] said, 'I heard Hisham bin Hakim bin Hizam reciting Surat Al-Furqan ["Al-Furqan," the title of the 25th surah, has no meaning in any language.] during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle. I listened to his recitation and noticed that he recited it in several ways which Allah's Apostle had not taught me. So I was on the point of attacking him in the prayer, but I waited till he finished, and then I seized him by the collar. "Who taught you this Surah which I have heard you reciting?" He replied, "Allah's Apostle taught it to me." I said, "You are lying. Allah's Apostle taught me in a different way this very Surah which I have heard you reciting." So I led him to Muhammad. "O Allah's Apostle! I heard this person reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way that you did not teach me." The Prophet said, "Hisham, recite!" So he recited in the same way as I heard him recite it before. On that Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed to be recited in this way." Then the Prophet said, "Recite, Umar!" So I recited it as he had taught me. Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed to be recited in this way, too." He added, "The Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in several different ways, so recite of it that which is easier for you." (Bukhari:V6B61N561)
Devoid of Context
The Qur'an in itself as a source for anything is devoid of context and thus arbitrary. Being devoid of context and any understanding, how can it be understood as the word of God?
"We do not have material in the Qur'an to compose a biography of Muhammad because the book is a disjointed discourse, a pastiche [imitation, parody] of divine monologues that can be assembled into a homily [lecture, sermon] or perhaps a catechism [snippets of dogma] but that reveals little or nothing about the life of Muhammad and his contemporaries.... The Qur'an give us no assurance that its words and sentiments are likely to be authentic in the light of the context they were delivered and in the manner of their transmission. There are no clues as to when or where or why these particular words were being uttered.... The Qur'an is of no use whatsoever as an independent source for reconstructing the life of Muhammad. The Qur'an is not terribly useful even for reconstructing the Meccan milieu much less the life of the man who uttered its words; it is a text without context."
Role of Muhammad's Scribes Ibn Qumta and Abi Sarh
Reports written by pious Muslims concerning Muhammad's two main scribes, his slave Ibn Qumta and a free scribe named Abdallah b. Sa'd b Abi Sarh, reveal Muhammad relied upon literate men for both the content and style of the Koran.
One of the earliest Islamic historians, Wakidi, has the following sentence which suggests Abdallah b. Sa'd b. Abi Sarh, and a Christian slave, ibn Qumta, had considerable input in the content and wording of Muhammad's alleged revelations which he dictated to them. "And ibn Abi Sarh came back and said to the Quraish: "It was only a Christian slave who was teaching him (Muhammad); I used to write to him and change whatever I wanted."'
In other words, Ibn Sarh spontaneously composed and changed whatever he chose in the Koran and Muhammad did not object or even seem to notice. It was only after Ibn Sarh told others that Muhammad became concerned that his fraud was being exposed.
Because of the careless and casual way Muhammad allowed changes to the Supreme Being's revealed words, Abi Sarh became disgusted and publicly denounced Muhammad's "revelations" as an outright fraud and fled the cult. He reverted to Christianity and barely escaped assassination by Muhammad. The frank admission of Islamic "reporters" shows there was truth to the accusation.
source:wiki
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: The looting and raping is a ritual of barbarians like the Crusades, Vikings, Romans, Persians, Mongols etc..Islam didn't invent this technique
The question that you have to ask yourself is whether what Muhammad did was ethically right?
For the sake of argument, let us say that people in those days were savages. At least this is the lie that Muslims want us to believe. Is this a good excuse for Muhammad to raid, loot, and massacre people? Did Muhammad come to guide people to the right path or was he a victim of the bad traditions of his people? Didn't he call the pagans ignorant? If so, why did he follow their ways? The man who taught his followers with how many stones they should wipe their rears after the call of nature did not know looting and stealing is evil and he should not set that kind of examples. Are we supposed to believe that he was a prophet?
The Gosples were also collected after the death of Jesus. Why Jesus didn't do such things things? Why the Christians did not do such thing? Just think of these scenarios. A Muslim says I love little girls so I am going to visit Imam Bukhari and tell him I heard tje Prophet had sex with Aisha when she was nine. The other Muslim loves to rape women, he goes to Bukhari and tells him that Muhammad raided villages, butchered the men and allowed his followers to rape the women. He himself also took pretty girls, Juwairiyah , Rayhana and Safiyah from the captives and raped them. Another Muslim wants to torture people; he makes up the stories of Qinana and the Bedouins and says that Muhammad tortured them to death. It’s not just one narrator, but hundreds of them that confabulate the same lies. Now the miracle is that these narrators did not know each other. Another wonder is that they managed to fool, not only one eminent collector of hadith, like the great Bukhari but all of them. And all these luminareis and scholars were so dumb that did not realize these people are lying and libeling their beloved prophet with such gross accusations. Are we supposed to believe that?
Muslims have very circular reasoning. They claim that Muhammad came to guide the ignorant people to the right path. But when we point out the evils committed by him, they say he was a man of his time and did what others were doing. We are not talking about the way he dressed. This is raiding, raping, looting and killing innocent people we are talking about?
Let us not words deceive us. The "right path" for Muslims has totally a different meaning. This term for them means following the mandates of Muhammad and acting like him. It is not the same right path and right deeds most of us are familiar with. In fact most Islamic "right paths" are very demonic - like killing the unbelievers and looting their properties. In Islam this is the right path because Muhammad did it and asked his followers to do it.
Did Muhammad like to be treated the way he treated others? Of course not! When a group of Bedouins stole some of his 'stolen camels' and killed the shepherd, Muhammad found them, cut their extremities and left them in the sun to die a painful slow death. If stealing was so bad that deserved such harsh and inhumane punishment, why he would engage in that activity? Why he would raid unarmed people, kill them and loot their belongings?
Although the claim that pagans were worse than Muslims is a lie, it still does not justify Muhammad's crimes. This man claimed to be the prophet of God, "the best example to follow", an "the best of creation". In a Hadith Qudsi he makes his Allah say to him: 'Were it not for you, I would not have created the universe.'
Let us delve into the mind of this narcissist and see what else he said about himself:
"The very first thing that Allah Almighty ever created was my soul."
"First of all things, the Lord created my mind."
Then why a messenger of God, the person who thinks the universe is created for him, should act like a criminal?
"I am from Allah, and the believers are from me." sourcePosts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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Please simplify your posts for heaven's sake, I can't read all this crap, find a way to be more specific, call your maintenance or technical support..or whatever runs you. Upgrade yourself! Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: through Muhammad pbuh who faught only to defend Allah's word to humankind, this is the Jihad of its times.
There are many faiths and philosophies that belong to the past and some much older than Islam but they all started and advanced without bloodshed. Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Manism, Christianity and many Greek philosophies grew without the need of killing people. This is absurd to say that I cannot convince you of my truth by logic so let me convince you by my sword.
Jesus said that when we give someone the gospel and they reject it, we are to shake the dust off our feet and go on because we have done all that God has required of us to do for that person. We are then not responsible for their not knowing about God. It is up to us to tell them, then they have the responsibility for their own decisions after they know what is right.
Matt: And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Contrast Jesus' teachings to Muhammad's! Prior to Islam there were no religious hostilities among the Arabs that comprised idolaters, Jews and Christians. Most of the early believers disliked fighting. The Prophet had to coax them with the following verse:
“Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you”? (Q.2:216).
Is really fighting good for people? But when this did not work he coerced them with the following:
“Unless ye go forth, He (Allah) will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place”? (Q.9:39).
Forcing people to accept to submit to one’s belief is only a practice of Islam. NO other religion advocated violence as a legitimate means of propagating itself. No real God would demand obedience and love through violence. Muhammad must have been possessed by Demons.
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: why make it complicated when Allah said it is simple?
As i told you before Ayisha,to undertsand Islam you have to understand the 3 sources of faith. I am an Arabic speaking person ,and when I read Quran,find myself grap the dictionary,look at Al-Hadith,Look at Al-Tafseer. Read the previous post Ayisha,ALLAh says"OBEY THE prophet",so we have to know what the prophet told us and What he was doing. Peace
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: As i told you before Ayisha,to undertsand Islam you have to understand the 3 sources of faith. I am an Arabic speaking person ,and when I read Quran,find myself grap the dictionary,look at Al-Hadith,Look at Al-Tafseer. Read the previous post Ayisha,ALLAh says"OBEY THE prophet",so we have to know what the prophet told us and What he was doing. Peace
Allah gave us ONE source of faith, Quran. MAN gave the other two you mention. we KNOW what the prophet told us as its IN Quran. His ONLY duty was to convey the message, the message is Quran.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Forcing people to accept to submit to one’s belief is only a practice of Islam. NO other religion advocated violence as a legitimate means of propagating itself. No real God would demand obedience and love through violence. Muhammad must have been possessed by Demons.
ut what you're insinuating is that Islam was a religion of TERROR AND VIOLENCE, and that it was the sword that spoke to spread Islam..this is a typical western view of Islam since it was spreading towards the west into Spain from the Arab region. Now what about the East ?? Did it reach Persia, Indonesia, India, China , Malysia, Thailand and even the Mongol invaders themselves through terror ? Temur Lenk was a Muslim if you please This would mean that Arabs invaded Egypt to kill and loot the Coptic people and rape their women then convert them all into being Muslims by force, while the Romans stood there watching. You must know what you're saying, Muhammad pbuh died before Islam had even set one foot out of the Arab Peninsula...what demons are you talking about ? Muhammad pbuh was concerned about his enemies and fought them to raise the word of Allah on Arabian soil and nothing more.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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