The common belief among Africans is that homosexuality is primarily a story of seduction by Europeans and/or Americans, in which the Africans acquiesced out of fear or from a desire for money. . . But we know that this is a lie, and this is an attempt to shed some light on our true history, that which our colonial masters had ensured was kept hidden from us. In the black/white relationships that did develop into homosexual unions, the white partner appears to have been the aggressor. No doubt the abuse of African people by European/American people has included sexual abuse. What is untrue, the lie, is that such abuse was the origin of African homosexuality.
There are two false assumptions in anthropology. The first false assumption is that savage or primitive people know nothing about homosexuality; the second false assumption is that Africans were savage or primitive. Where there was clear and indisputable evidence of African homosexuality, anthropologists had to invent excuses in order to save these false assumptions, and that is what they did.
The first excuse was that Africans learned homosexuality from the Arabs. Then the excuse was that Africans learned homosexuality by hustling Europeans. Anthropologists said homosexuality was only a corruption practiced by the overly rich chiefs. Then they said that poor people practiced homosexuality because the overly rich chiefs had monopolised all of the women in harems. They said it was only youthful high spirits: the African was not really homosexual; he was just real drunk last night. Every excuse you are likely to hear from a deep closet case was used by Euro-American academics in the attempt to explain away the facts. The facts were: homosexuality was found in almost every major African ethnic group that we know of, through all of the history we know of. Few of the societies of Africa could be called savage or primitive, but all over the world, those people who might fairly be called savage or primitive are perfectly familiar with homosexuality. Homosexuality is not the white man's way. It is the way of gay people of all colours and nations, of all places and times.
African Homosexuality
One common mistake made, is that of confusing the popularity of homosexual activity with what gay people are doing and how they are treated. In Azandeland, in modern day northern Congo and the Central African Republic, most men, or at least very many men, had homosexual affairs. However, most men were still expected to marry women, father children, and so forth. The Azande knew very well that some men preferred to have sex with other men. Although every man was expected to marry a women , Azande customs provided a man with an excuse to have sex with another man whenever he wanted, throughout life. Marriage between warriors and recruits was only a part of the Azande accommodation to male homosexuality. The Azande were not a liberal people. They were the rare example of a society that punished female homosexuality while imposing no penalty on males. Because it was thought fatal to any man who witnessed it, female homosexuality could, in theory, entail the death penalty. But in fact female homosexuality was common and the public knew about it. In an Azande folktale two women conspire to fool a husband in order to get together. The most common sexual activity between men was intercourse between the thighs. This sort of adaptation is common in cultures where homosexual affairs become fashionable among non-gay men. We do not know what the gay, or preferentially homosexual Azande did. We only know the Azande knew there were such men.
In societies where homosexuality becomes popular across the board, it is usual to find that older men choose unmarried young men and that the older men assume the role of top in these relationships. So it is perhaps instructive to look at two groups in Africa that went counter to that tendency. A good example of an African people with a tradition of male homosexuality between lovers of the same age was the Nyakyusa who lived north of Lake Malawi (aka Lake Nyasa). However important the family was in Africa, you cannot form strong states and vast empires such as Africa had, on the basis of family alone. Intermarriage helps some. But to build a strong state you must have forces that run across family lines, that hold the various families together, and that keep feuds and rivalries from tearing society apart. Various African societies have used various institutions to paste society together. There might be secret societies, like fraternities and sororities, especially in West Africa. There might be trade organisations or craft guilds. There may be dance associations or religious institutions. Very commonly, people are organised in age groups. The Nyakyusa of what is now southwestern Tanzania and northern Zambia carried organisation by age group to the extreme. They organised their villages by age group. One of the first things young Nyakyusa boys did, to show they were becoming responsible, was to herd cattle. Generally a boy and his best friend would herd their families' cattle together. Pasturing the cattle gave the boys plenty of time to play around. And, of course, what they did was to have sex. They danced together, engaged in mutual masturbation, anal sex, and intercourse between the thighs.
Oral sex, whether heterosexual or homosexual, was not very popular in traditional African societies. Most of them thought it was very bad. Oral sex or rape were considered serious crimes which might entail a cattle fine. All of the other things the boys did might get them a tongue lashing or a minor whipping if they were caught by the adults. But everyone knew what was going on and no serious attempt was made to stop the boys. At a fairly young age Nyakyusa boys had to move out of their fathers' homes. At first they were likely to sleep with other boys in abandoned huts or other bachelors' quarters in their fathers' villages. Boys slept together, and naturally had sex with each other at night. So long as force was not used, no crime was reckoned to have occurred when the boys had sex. For the boys, homosexuality was considered a perfectly normal, if not completely desirable, sexual outlet that required no explanation, supernatural or otherwise.
Eventually boys of the same age, perhaps from several parent villages, got together and began to form a village of their own. At first this was a boys' village. The girls remained in the parent villages until the boys reached a marriageable age. In a sense, Nyakyusa villages have a life cycle from boyhood through manhood to old age. A village is child to some other villages, parent to some villages, and brother to yet others.
Now, what do I mean by boys? In Africa you are a child until you become a boy. You remain a boy until you of an age to have a house, a female wife, and children of your own. Nyakyusa began having homosexual relations at 10 to 14 years of age. They seldom married before they were 25. So for ten to fifteen years of the most sexually active part of life, Nyakyusa men practiced homosexuality. Once they got married to women, and virtually all of them did, Nyakyusa men were supposed to stop having homosexual relations. Nonetheless, a few cases of relations between men and boys came to light. This was punishable by a cattle fine. It is said, however, that the men were not afraid of the fine, but of the shame of being caught in activity associated with witchcraft. In any event, Nyakyusa men did not believe it sacrificed their masculinity to perform anal sex in either position. They did not believe they were castrated in the middle of their burning skulls just because they had sex with their friends. Certainly the Nyakyusa public thought it peculiar if a man with a wife at home preferred to have sex with a man or boy, but that only raised questions of witchcraft, not questions of manhood.
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posted
Where was the image found, by who and how was it dated?
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$15.00 These fanciful gold weights are not originals but were only made for the pleasure of the modern collector of African figurative art. Here are all the different variations we have of this figure. Please refer to the code that corresponds to figure you prefer when you place your order. ____________________________________
Akan goldweight figures were used as a measuring system by the Akan people of Africa. The gold weights were used to weigh gold dust which was used as currency before money and coins were invented. Locally they are known as mrammou, and the weights are made of brass. Traditionally a small set of gold weights were given to a newly wedded man. The status and respect of a man will also increase if he would possess a complete set of gold weights.
Stylistic studies of goldweights can provide relative dates into the two broad early and late periods. The Early period is thought to have been from about 1400–1720 AD, with some overlap with the Late period, 1700-1900 AD.[2] There is a distinct difference between the Early and Late periods.
Some estimate that there are 3 million goldweights in existence.
Timothy F. Garrard African Arts Vol. 15, No. 2 (Feb., 1982), pp. 60-62+88 Published by: UCLA James S. Coleman African Studies Center DOI: 10.2307/3335970
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Giovanni Antonio Cavazzi da Montecuccolo (1621–1678) was an Italian Capuchin missionary working as a missionary in Angola, between 1654 and 1677, noted for his travels in 17th century Portuguese Angola and his lengthy account of local history and culture as well as a history of the Capuchin mission there. An Historical Description of Three Kingdoms: Congo, Matamba, and Angola (Italian Istorica descrizione de' tre' regni Congo, Matamba et Angola) is an extensive work written by Giovanni Antonio Cavazzi da Montecuccolo ( Istorica Descrizione de' tre regni Congo, Matamba ed Angola)
Cavazzi probably began writing this work around 1660, perhaps in response to his witnessing the conversion of Queen Njinga to Christianity, which he regarded as something of a miracle. _______________________________________
Queen Nzinga and Chibados
Chibados (or quimbandas)are third-gender people, born male, who lived most often as women. They were found among the cultures of the Ndongo and other parts of what is today Angola. They were first described in the west by the Portuguese.
Chibados were involved as "spiritual arbiters in political and military decisions" and also performed burials. Olfert Dapper was a Dutch geographer who described the chibados as shamans "who walk dressed like women." Portuguese priests and Jesuits described how chibados lived as women and were able to marry other men with no social sanctions. Instead, "such marriages were honored and even prized." Chibados made up a separate caste and elders referred to themselves as "Grandmother."
Queen Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba had over fifty chibados in her court. The chibados were said to be used by Nzinga as concubines.
As the Portuguese gained more control in Africa, colonial laws introduced and increased homophobia
Olfert Dapper never actually visited Africa himself. But he based a book on Africa based on reports by Jesuit missionaries and trade accounts of the Dutch West India Company. As such it remains a valuable account. Dapper wrote this in his 1668 account of Nzinga’s royal court: “”(She) also maintains fifty to sixty concubines, whom she dresses like women, even though they are young men … Even though they know it, she dresses these fifty to sixty strong and beautiful young men in female garment, according to her habit, and dresses herself as a man. She calls these men women and herself a man. The cross-dressed young men are said to be her concubines.” (Bleys, 33)
Olfert Dapper's 'Description of Africa' (1668) is a key text for African studies. His book is one of the most authoritative 17th century accounts on Africa _____________________
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
It is not Afticans creating and selling this shit.
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posted
I find it amazing that one of the greatest talking points among the Afrocentric crowd is that the greatest human biological diversity is within Sub Saharan Africans, but for some strange reason this can not apply to sexuality. It's ridiculous, and the lie to maintain such notions are rooted in nothing more than shame. You have entire black African communities who do not allow boys in puberty to have sex with girls of the same age (which mean no girls), so they have sex with one another until a certain age. After that age most of the men will naturally gravitate towards women. This example of a society that forces it's inhabitants to utilize their NATURAL sexual dynamics makes those men in these societies who have been taught to suppress their sexual dynamics extremely uncomfortable. The existence of those sexual dynamics is not something that these men want to talk about. Religion has made this situation taboo among indigenous people not only in Africa, but the Americas and the blacks of the Pacific.
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posted
Some in the black community find homosexuality threatening even if there is some evidence of it maybe being found in so called "precolonial Africa" Reason being they feel that the influence in America is not from Africa it is from gay Europeans and that it contributes to lowering the black birth rate and feminizing men who might otherwise be warriors against possible upcoming race wars (in the minds of some, I. Genie etc) or fighting white supremacy in general
Personally I find these fears greatly exaggerated. I see the gay population as more vocal but not on an ongoing increase, more like a natural under 5% of the population that is stabilized around that percent and rather than increasing it's more people coming out form their formerly DL status.
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posted
Homosexuality and Transgenderism was found throughout the world...
quote:Originally posted by TheTruth01: I find it amazing that one of the greatest talking points among the Afrocentric crowd is that the greatest human biological diversity is within Sub Saharan Africans, but for some strange reason this can not apply to sexuality. It's ridiculous, and the lie to maintain such notions are rooted in nothing more than shame. You have entire black African communities who do not allow boys in puberty to have sex with girls of the same age (which mean no girls), so they have sex with one another until a certain age. After that age most of the men will naturally gravitate towards women. This example of a society that forces it's inhabitants to utilize their NATURAL sexual dynamics makes those men in these societies who have been taught to suppress their sexual dynamics extremely uncomfortable. The existence of those sexual dynamics is not something that these men want to talk about. Religion has made this situation taboo among indigenous people not only in Africa, but the Americas and the blacks of the Pacific.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Stop misrepresenting African Age Grade System in its pre-adult stages as a hot haven for EuroWestern style gay homosexuality.
Some Africans have the belief that before clitorectomy and circumcision the human remains genderless though not truly a hermophrodite or androgynous.
Of course not all Inner Africans have Age Grades and some even view genital mutilation as acts of barbarity perpetrated on girls and boys whether as infants or entrance into puberty or on becoming full adult members contributing to society.
It's true some African spiritualities have rather a preference for trans ritual conducters.
Nor do EuroWestern societies have female soldier or page boy traditions of curtailed homosexuality as in the more urbanized Inner African nation states. Also the male African procedure is more likely intrafemoral whereas the EuroWest way always is per anum a/o oral.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Stop misrepresenting African Age Grade System in its pre-adult stages as a hot haven for EuroWestern style gay homosexuality.
What is Euro style "gay homosexuality"? I've never seen that category on porn hub. From my experience homosexuality does not differ rather it's an African, Indian, East Asia, or Euro. I've never had to pull out a manual about how to have sex with a male from either of those cultures. It comes rather naturally.
As far as the youth are concerned. I'm in my 20's and I can remember how homosexual on the low many many many of my peers were during those ages. Many of the boys weren't serial homosexuals, because it's taboo in our society. They would however find a mate or two to do it with on the regular, and just keep that on the "DL" between them. Why? Because in our society there is no coming back from being labeled a "fag".
quote: Some Africans have the belief that before clitorectomy and circumcision the human remains genderless though not truly a hermophrodite or androgynous.
So you're saying that they would remain "celibate"?
quote: It's true some African spiritualities have rather a preference for trans ritual conducters.
The spiritual homosexual priest/nobles is a theme across the globe in indigenous pre colonial societies. The "two spirit" individuals in Native American society to the sex cults of the black males in the Pacific.
quote:Also the male African procedure is more likely intrafemoral whereas the EuroWest way always is per anum a/o oral.
The only reason to do it between the thighs is when the bottom hasn't cleaned properly, and is too lazy to. The "G-spot" in the anus is the key pleasure that 'bottoms' get from sex. Think about it sex is mutual. There is not satisfaction besides sticky legs when thigh sex occurs for a bottom. The "G-spot" gives men erections, which is show on the statues in the OP. The top has an erection, and if he's hitting the spot right then the bottom has erection too.
lol If you've never had a gay experience then you wouldn't understand, but trust me the shaft was definitely slid a few inches higher to go into the rectum. Hell I even heard in lecture that the "G-spot" in the rectum was one of the ways that Egyptian pharaohs could stimulate their pineal gland.
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posted
From experience "DL" homosexuality is RAMPANT through Middle Eastern/Muslim populations and Caribbean especially Haitian and Jamaicans. So this narrative that it's only "African Americans" who are "homophobic" is a fallacy. In fact African Americans are some of the most welcoming people to homosexuals. Case and point Disco. Disco was a mixture of blacks, gays, white women and other races, and it rejected the white man (for which white men rioted in Chicago in the 1980's against disco).
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posted
I wouldn't necessarily conclude that people partaking in ritualized homosexual intercourse were all "gay" in the sense that we currently understand the term (i.e. in reference to innate sexual orientation), but I do think homophobia is a relatively recent development that came from the Abrahamic religions. In that light, I find it ironic to see Afrocentric individuals endorsing homophobic attitudes when said attitudes would have been introduced to African-descended people from European interpretations of Christianity.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Why would I have a homo experience as you call it when there's plenty good meow meow meow just a waiting for something to do or have done to their gynny, asz, mouth&throat, a/o tits? Yes, even inter- femoral, where thighs butt gynny and taint meet to compress the rod hitting it in spooning embrace so that the ejaculate accumulates on the bush, clit, and the very top of her thighs.
Interfemoral frotage has nothing to do with avoiding rectum feces, nor your imagination or way-you-would -have-it-to-be have anything to do with any actual African society's realities re culture religion/spirituality.
Being steeped in EuroWestern gay lifestyle doesn't help one understand homosexuality in African historical terms. Right now gay society and the violent hatred of gays where it occurs on the continent is a result of Europeanization, as such, is part and parcel of the modern world idea of being up to date essentially means being or mimicking the EuroWest.
Not to say the ultimate violent response wasn't ever inflicted on unfortunate proposers in historical Inner Africa. Generally, both ridicule and opprobrium was the cultural spiritual stance. This is seen in the case of netcheru nephew Hor and uncle Set and two of the "Negative Confessions" prohibiting male-male sexual practice for those wanting to pass judgement in the Afterdeath.
Yes, there's a difference between someone committing same sex activity (horniness) and someone with the mental attitude that some one of their same sex can replace having a mate who can engender offspring (love&marriage).
=-=-=-=
I lived through the Disco Era. It was no more a mixture than the Jazz and Big Band Era. Disco was a rip-off of The Sound of Philadelphia. Blacks laughed at and disliked mechanical disco music; Disco Duck, Somewhere Over the Rainbow, Beethoven's 5th Symphony. Disco -- just lay down that TSOP beat over top of How Much Is that Doggy In the Window add the metronome heavy 4 and voila you had a disco record. And if the Brothers Gibb aren't yte men ...
On the other hand, at the same time, there was dance music that included all, yte men too! The difference? What was heard on R&B or Rock radio that was danceable vs the disco metronome.
posted
Is it African? The Prosecution rest your honor…..
nuff said
“ Not to say the ultimate violent response wasn't ever inflicted on unfortunate proposers in historical Inner Africa. Generally, both ridicule and opprobrium was the cultural spiritual stance. This is seen in the case of netcheru nephew Hor and uncle Set and two of the "Negative Confessions" prohibiting male-male sexual practice for those wanting to pass judgement in the Afterdeath.”
And “Yes, there's a difference between someone committing same sex activity (horniness) and someone with the mental attitude that some one of their same sex can replace having a mate who can engender offspring (love&marriage). “
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Is it African? The Prosecution rest your honor…..
nuff said
“ Not to say the ultimate violent response wasn't ever inflicted on unfortunate proposers in historical Inner Africa. Generally, both ridicule and opprobrium was the cultural spiritual stance. This is seen in the case of netcheru nephew Hor and uncle Set
xyyman, are you familiar with that odd story of Hor and Set and the semen on the lettuce or are you just head nodding?
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: two of the "Negative Confessions" prohibiting male-male sexual practice for those wanting to pass judgement in the Afterdeath.
Which papyrus are you referring to?
There is no standard Negative Confession. I don't think it is correct to speak of them as "prohibiting" as if they were laws and their content varies in different tombs, customized to the deceased. A confession is not a prohibition. Similarly a culture largely Christian while not approving of homosexuality does not always have enforced sodomy laws
If the translation is accurate people should not construe this Egyptian text pertaining to the afterlife as and example of Africans while living having "violent response" to homosexuality or homosexuality being socially or legally prohibited. That would have to be evidenced by other non-funerary tests but none are found prohibiting homosexuality
But as a negative confession for a hypothetical judgement in the afterlife, after dying in this world, that the deceased had not done behavior considered negative, and in one of these tombs regarding male-male sexual practice it it is suggestive that requiring such address that laying with men must have sometimes been going on in Egypt
Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum were two male the Manicurists in the Palace of King Nyuserre, here touching noses and embracing has not been proven to be a homosexual relationship but it is kind of suspect looking in my opinion
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Why would I have a homo experience as you call it when there's plenty good meow meow meow just a waiting for something to do or have done to their gynny, asz, mouth&throat, a/o tits? Yes, even inter- femoral, where thighs butt gynny and taint meet to compress the rod hitting it in spooning embrace so that the ejaculate accumulates on the bush, clit, and the very top of her thighs.
Interfemoral frotage has nothing to do with avoiding rectum feces, nor your imagination or way-you-would -have-it-to-be have anything to do with any actual African society's realities re culture religion/spirituality.
Being steeped in EuroWestern gay lifestyle doesn't help one understand homosexuality in African historical terms. Right now gay society and the violent hatred of gays where it occurs on the continent is a result of Europeanization, as such, is part and parcel of the modern world idea of being up to date essentially means being or mimicking the EuroWest.
Not to say the ultimate violent response wasn't ever inflicted on unfortunate proposers in historical Inner Africa. Generally, both ridicule and opprobrium was the cultural spiritual stance. This is seen in the case of netcheru nephew Hor and uncle Set and two of the "Negative Confessions" prohibiting male-male sexual practice for those wanting to pass judgement in the Afterdeath.
Yes, there's a difference between someone committing same sex activity (horniness) and someone with the mental attitude that some one of their same sex can replace having a mate who can engender offspring (love&marriage).
=-=-=-=
I lived through the Disco Era. It was no more a mixture than the Jazz and Big Band Era. Disco was a rip-off of The Sound of Philadelphia. Blacks laughed at and disliked mechanical disco music; Disco Duck, Somewhere Over the Rainbow, Beethoven's 5th Symphony. Disco -- just lay down that TSOP beat over top of How Much Is that Doggy In the Window add the metronome heavy 4 and voila you had a disco record. And if the Brothers Gibb aren't yte men ...
On the other hand, at the same time, there was dance music that included all, yte men too! The difference? What was heard on R&B or Rock radio that was danceable vs the disco metronome.
You still have yet to define "Euro-style homosexuality" as I asked in my previous post.
As a gay man I've never heard of that description among gays. There is no particular style of fornication that is "Euro" to my knowledge and experience.
Also those old conversations that you linked me to lacked dynamic in my opinion. Main reason being where are the homosexuals in the conversation about homosexuality?? That's like having a discussion about the black plight in America with a panel exclusively comprised of Euros.
I'm not sure what the motive is to make homosexuality taboo in Africa prior to white incursion, but it makes no sense at all. Especially given the fact from EXPERIENCE that upon reading books like "Boy Wives and Female Husbands" many of the behaviors described in traditional African society is mirrored in black American society. You have grown men chasing young cross dressers in the Wolof communities as noted by the Europeans. That sounds like Malik Yoba, and a huge section of the hood where I was from who kept that shit on the low low with the likes of my popular tranny cousin. It was amazing to me to see upon hanging out with her just how many of my "straight" peers preferred trannys or cross dressers over regular gay men. It's such a huge culture of shame and secrecy in the black communities regarding this issue. It cannot healthy for the family to keep all of these secrets rather than embracing the truth about our individual sexual dynamics.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Is it African? The Prosecution rest your honor…..
nuff said
“ Not to say the ultimate violent response wasn't ever inflicted on unfortunate proposers in historical Inner Africa. Generally, both ridicule and opprobrium was the cultural spiritual stance. This is seen in the case of netcheru nephew Hor and uncle Set and two of the "Negative Confessions" prohibiting male-male sexual practice for those wanting to pass judgement in the Afterdeath.”
And “Yes, there's a difference between someone committing same sex activity (horniness) and someone with the mental attitude that some one of their same sex can replace having a mate who can engender offspring (love&marriage). “
We have evidence from going back to the Ramside dynasty in ancient Africa showing homosexuality being practiced in art! Why would you then ask is it African? It clearly always has been African.
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I knew this, but I wanted to have TheTruth01 answer this.
I don't see what the purpose is for you to post all that?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: Its not African.
True. Why they insist on this beyond crazy. It's truly fascinating.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Is it African? The Prosecution rest your honor…..
nuff said
“ Not to say the ultimate violent response wasn't ever inflicted on unfortunate proposers in historical Inner Africa. Generally, both ridicule and opprobrium was the cultural spiritual stance. This is seen in the case of netcheru nephew Hor and uncle Set and two of the "Negative Confessions" prohibiting male-male sexual practice for those wanting to pass judgement in the Afterdeath.”
And “Yes, there's a difference between someone committing same sex activity (horniness) and someone with the mental attitude that some one of their same sex can replace having a mate who can engender offspring (love&marriage). “
We have evidence from going back to the Ramside dynasty in ancient Africa showing homosexuality being practiced in art! Why would you then ask is it African? It clearly always has been African.
It's all in your head. It's not real.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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A glutton and a gourmet both go from plate to mouth with a fork. Yet attitude/approach makes one a eat any thing in quantities fast&sloppily glutton while the other's a refined nutritonalist portion minded gourmet.
The sociology is what makes your modern EuroWest Gayness something quite other than historic Inner African homosexuality.
Have you tried doing a research comparison of the two by either sociologist reports or 21st century African gay men's writings? No.
Again what's worth discussing when one lacks the prerequisites for meaningful discourse.
Plus it's a liar's lie to say I ever said there was no male-male sex among Inner Africans before Christianity (either Eastern Orthodox or European versions) and Islam (Arabian) when I've given links to examples of such.
I didn't link you to blindly to whole threads. I linked specific posts of historic Inner Africans practicing homosexuality. The final link even answers your question on distinctions between Africa and EuroWest principles, especially the poster's test #5 re the 21st Century.
quote:5) Whether homosexuality has spawned a mass movement or significant advocacy by influential national leaders, religious figures and celebrities to put it on a par with heterosexuality, including redefining the society's fundamental institution for the procreation and rearing of children. This is so in large parts of the white West, from Sweden, to France, to Britain, to the United States.
The book Papyrus of Ani is a Wallace Budge book which also has the text of several other Papyrus
A similar statement is made in the Papyrus of the Papyrus of Nebseni 27.
27. “Hail, thou whose face is [turned] backward, who comest forth from the Dwelling, I have not committed acts of impurity, neither have I lain with men.
_________________________________
but in the Papyrus of Ani only adultery is mentioned
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Thx 4 that 2nd incident I couldn't locate, though both were posted to ES ages ago.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
This is from the Papyrus of Nu not Ani
The book Papyrus of Ani is a Wallace Budge book which also has the text of several other Papyrus
A similar statement is made in the Papyrus of the Papyrus of Nebseni 27.
27. “Hail, thou whose face is [turned] backward, who comest forth from the Dwelling, I have not committed acts of impurity, neither have I lain with men.
_________________________________
but in the Papyrus of Ani only adultery is mentioned
Maybe Ani didn't want to tell a lie to the Big Boss God deciding afterlife or annihilation of each person's 'soul'.
Then again there's the question of translator's word choices.
What a conversation!!. lol. But let's make this clear. Ritualistic and religious homoeroticism cannot be equated with modern Western homosexuality. Similar systems can be found among Pacific indigenous peoples, by the way. Then again, the past is another country, and the same kind of logic could be applied to heterosexual relationships in African cultures.
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posted
@ Lioness. I am head nodding. I can’t read glyphs and I don’t trust European translation or interpretation. Few brothas can read it.
Prohibiting vs Laws. Lol! SMH. Bottom line it wasn’t the norm and was unacceptable
“ I have not” means it is not looked upon favorable ie it is sinful
“, that the deceased had not done behavior considered negative”
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: Its not African.
True. Why they insist on this beyond crazy.
the initial post is about the the Nyakyusa. Do you know anything about them
before you go look them up on google??
or pertaining to the subject? Do you know what Chibados are?
Yes, I know and I don't care, because it's not a (big) thing. It's all blown out of proportion, because they want to force Black people into some LBTQ submission.
I understand African spiritually and I know that there's a male and female spiritual side.
You have always been supportive of things that pertain the demise of Black people, so I am not shocked here.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Lioness. I am head nodding. I can’t read glyphs and I don’t trust European translation or interpretation. Few brothas can read it.
Prohibiting vs Laws. Lol! SMH. Bottom line it wasn’t the norm and was unacceptable
“ I have not” means it is not looked upon favorable ie it is sinful
“, that the deceased had not done behavior considered negative”
The topic is with whole of Africa not Egypt in particular.
And it's hypocritical and to say "glyphs and I don’t trust European translation or interpretation" and then consign these negative confessions
--translated by Europeans !
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: Its not African.
True. Why they insist on this beyond crazy.
the initial post is about the the Nyakyusa. Do you know anything about them
before you go look them up on google??
or pertaining to the subject? Do you know what Chibados are?
Yes, I know and I don't care, because it's not a (big) thing. It's all blown out of proportion, because they want to force Black people into some LBTQ submission.
I understand African spiritually and I know that there's a male and female spiritual side.
You have always been supportive of things that pertain the demise of Black people, so I am not shocked here.
What I think is that exaggerated thing is "LBTQ submission" is leading to "the demise of Black people"
I believe that homosexuality is natural to 4-5% of human populations and the society either hides it shows it. As regards Africa before the Europeans it is hard to know the extent or acceptability of these men dressing as women and lesbianism going on since Africa is now heavily dominated by Islam and Christianity who are against it (but with a lot of DL-ism)
How is it that some cities in America are changing police budgets and policy now 2020? That is in part due to three black lesbians, Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometi starting the Black Lives Matter movement in 2013
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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As far as I know Tukuler and Wally know can read Glyphs. I believe Asar Hotep also. Asar….whigger?
I am going off Tukulers translation
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Quote: “That is in part due to three black lesbians, Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometi starting the Black Lives Matter movement in 2013”.
You people need to think.
That says it all. I always wondering about the formation of the BLM. Now is coming together. Why would 3 women who probably dislike black men start a movement to defending black men. I heard the rumor about Soros?
These women probably think they can do without black men and probably has a disdain for black.
I always dislike that name…BLM…so lame. It is weak. And submissive .
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Quote: “That is in part due to three black lesbians, Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometi starting the Black Lives Matter movement in 2013”.
You people need to think.
That says it all. I always wondering about the formation of the BLM. Now is coming together. Why would 3 women who probably dislike black men start a movement to defending black men. I heard the rumor about Soros?
These women probably think they can do without black men and probably has a disdain for black.
I always dislike that name…BLM…so lame. It is weak. And submissive .
#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.
We are expansive. We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.
We affirm the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, undocumented folks, folks with records, women, and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. Our network centers those who have been marginalized within Black liberation movements.
We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise.
We affirm our humanity, our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.
The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation. ___________________________________
You will notice that they say "We affirm the lives of Black queer and trans folks" but at the protest and in the media we are not hearing much about BLM gay rights. Some but much more about the police brutality.
A lot of these BLM protest look like they are 60-70% white. So now we see these police budgets under review, they made that happen
Most of these white people at the protests don't have the direct negative experiences outside of the protest with police that black people do but notice the pro-gay element crosses the color line. The white people in these protest add a lot of political weight.
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Where does she get her money. She doesn’t seem to have a real job? Lot of advocating but how does she pay her bills?
Patrisse Cullors
Cullors is an advocate for prison abolition She is also a LGBTQ activist Spouse: Janaya Khan Does not know her father Devote Marxist Cullors co-founded the prison activist organization Dignity and Power Now being forced from her home at sixteen when she revealed her queer joining the Bus Riders Union as a teenager later grew disillusioned with the church. Cullors teaches at Otis College of Art and Design in the Public Practice Program Master's Arts in Social Justice and Community Organizing at Prescott College from her 19-year-old brother being brutalized during imprisonment Los Angeles County jails as executive director of the Coalition to End Sheriff Violence in L.A. Jails organizing former jail inmates as a voting bloc She is also a board member of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights,
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Where does she get her money. She doesn’t seem to have a real job? Lot of advocating but how does she pay her bills?
Rise of a Freedom Fighter Patrisse Cullors is an artist, organizer, and freedom fighter from Los Angeles, CA. The co-founder of Black Lives Matter, founder of Dignity and Power Now, and founder/chair of Reform L.A. Jails, Cullors grew up in the San Fernando Valley witnessing firsthand the brutality of incarceration and over-policing in her community. While several of her loved ones were taken by the state, Cullors began to push for law enforcement accountability and build spaces for healing and resilience through her artistic practice. For the last 20 years, Cullors has been on the front-lines of criminal justice reform and led Reform LA Jails’ “Yes on R” campaign, a ballot initiative that passed by a 71% landslide victory in March 2020.
Cullors completed her MFA at USC’s Roski School of Art and Design in May 2019. Her thesis performance, Respite, Reprieve, and Healing: An Evening of Cleansing, explored themes such as exhaustion, restoration, and queer world building through ritual Black hair washing and procession movements as reviewed in a Los Angeles Times feature story. She exhibited this work at The Big House in South LA and as part of Highways Performance Space’s 30th anniversary arts festival, Behold!
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Man this is fascinating. Never knew who founded BLM. Is there really a Deep State? When Lioness posted this it puzzled me. Why would Black Lesbian Woman advocate for black males. I would understand our heterosexual black women since they have protected and held it down over the last 40years in a lot of instances
“In 2000,Booth became founding director of the NAACP National Voter Fund. Nearly forty years after Freedom Summer, she was once again working to register thousands of new African-American voters and increase voter turnout, advocating for an inclusive voting process in which all voices are heard and all votes count.”
“Booth traces her deep commitment to social justice to her Jewish values. She particularly cites a trip to Yad Vashem, the Israel Holocaust Museum, as transforming her into an activist, determined to work for justice. She was a founder of Amos: The National Jewish Partnership for Social Justice and is a member of the Selah social justice leadership program.”
”Heather Booth’s lifetime of activism as an organizer has served countless disenfranchised Americans. Her investment in the Jewish idea of tikkun olam, or repairing the world, has proved to be a lifelong commitment to making real, lasting change in society. As Heather says, “If we organize, we can change the world.”
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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No Lioness. Lol! Not that she works for the man or has a W2. As one of my Ex use to say…”does she have a 1099?” Bottomline does she contribute to the GDP.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Man this is fascinating. Never knew who founded BLM. Is there really a Deep State? When Lioness posted this it puzzled me. Why would Black Lesbian Woman advocate for black males.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Is it African? The Prosecution rest your honor…..
nuff said
“
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Not to say the ultimate violent response wasn't ever inflicted on unfortunate proposers in historical Inner Africa. Generally, both ridicule and opprobrium was the cultural spiritual stance. This is seen in the case of netcheru nephew Hor and uncle Set
that odd story of Hor and Set and the semen on the lettuce
quote:Next Seth turns his attention to Horus, attempting to discredit him as a male -- by having sex with him. On his mother's advice, Horus catches Seth's ejaculate in his hand. He then brings the semen to Isis who sprinkles it on Seth's favorite food, (the non-sexually reproducing) lettuce, which Seth eats.
Seth, thinking his semen is in Horus, although he has actually eaten it himself as salad dressing, appears with Horus before the judges who will determine who has primacy among the archetypal beings. Seth tells the judges to call to the semen so that it can respond telling where it is. They do, and much to Seth's surprise, the semen responds from his own belly, not from Horus's [buttocks].
Seth is disgraced and Horus assumes the role as prime archetypal being.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: What I think is that exaggerated thing is "LBTQ submission" is leading to "the demise of Black people"
I believe that homosexuality is natural to 4-5% of human populations and the society either hides it shows it. As regards Africa before the Europeans it is hard to know the extent or acceptability of these men dressing as women and lesbianism going on since Africa is now heavily dominated by Islam and Christianity who are against it (but with a lot of DL-ism)
How is it that some cities in America are changing police budgets and policy now 2020? That is in part due to three black lesbians, Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometi starting the Black Lives Matter movement in 2013
It's even less than that. And that is what makes it crazy. They try to control the lives of everybody. Everyone has to adapted and bow to their will. It's getting absurd. They are not even attacked biological females on and even offline.
And speaking of the BLM organization. One Egyptsearch poster wanted us about the origination as being a lesbian organization. We, or at least I did see harm and ignored it. But that poster was correct.
This thing has become a mess. And as painful is it is, it started with the Obama administration. I can't defend that one, even if I wanted to.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Is it African? The Prosecution rest your honor…..
nuff said
“ Not to say the ultimate violent response wasn't ever inflicted on unfortunate proposers in historical Inner Africa. Generally, both ridicule and opprobrium was the cultural spiritual stance. This is seen in the case of netcheru nephew Hor and uncle Set and two of the "Negative Confessions" prohibiting male-male sexual practice for those wanting to pass judgement in the Afterdeath.”
And “Yes, there's a difference between someone committing same sex activity (horniness) and someone with the mental attitude that some one of their same sex can replace having a mate who can engender offspring (love&marriage). “
We have evidence from going back to the Ramside dynasty in ancient Africa showing homosexuality being practiced in art! Why would you then ask is it African? It clearly always has been African.
In African tradition there's a male and feminine side in spirituality relating to the male and female physical beings. Both spiritual sides are born out of a non specific Creator, which has no gender specific. The Primordial Being is just as is. So I have no idea what you are talking about.
You try to interpret things through your vision, the way you view life. And now you are bothering (harassing) anyone else with it, even when you are being told that we aren't interested.
Are you trying to saying that once upon a time entire societies consisted out of transgenders, from rulers to peasants? Perhaps you can explain how these societies maintained and continued to thrive and procreate?
Are you sure you're not confusing sexual deformism for the gay agenda?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Quote: “That is in part due to three black lesbians, Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometi starting the Black Lives Matter movement in 2013”.
You people need to think.
That says it all. I always wondering about the formation of the BLM. Now is coming together. Why would 3 women who probably dislike black men start a movement to defending black men. I heard the rumor about Soros?
These women probably think they can do without black men and probably has a disdain for black.
I always dislike that name…BLM…so lame. It is weak. And submissive .
This interview will let you know all you need to know. These three lesbians are only the cofounders, but the puppet master is a transgender man, Malachi Larrabee-Garza who is the "husband" of Alicia Garza.
Black Lives Matter cofounder Alicia Garza and partner, community justice activist Malachi Larrabee-Garza speak at the 2016 YBCA 100 Summit.
Elle Hearns (born 1986/1987) is an American transgender rights activist. She co-founded the Black Lives Matter Global Network, where she served as a strategic partner and organizing coordinator, and founded The Marsha P. Johnson Institute, where she serves as executive director.[1][2][3]
As I said. I have never done a deep dive into BLM until now. The name "Black Lives Matter" to me sounded like psychobabble.
Like "we in this together" and "social distancing". Covid psychobabble. "Social distancing" is an oxymoron isn't it?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: wow! Good info Ish.
As I said. I have never done a deep dive into BLM until now. The name "Black Lives Matter" to me sounded like psychobabble.
The issue is that Black Lives obviously do matter, since this is embedded in socioeconomic empowerment. The problem here is that is enclosed in a gay agenda. And they are taking this agenda to extremes.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Like "we in this together" and "social distancing". Covid psychobabble. "Social distancing" is an oxymoron isn't it?
I don't like mix and match these things. One is visible and the other is not.
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