posted
I just witnessed(TV) the recent World Track and Field athletic event, Osaka, Japan.
I noted that sports bloggers on international sites express puzzlement as to why any country in Africa with its "vaunted poverty" can do better than supposedly healty and resource-stromg European nations.
Kenya and Ethiopia with a combined population of 110 million have outdone some 6 billion people in distance races from 800 metres to the marathon.
Also noteworthy is that the shorter distances from 100 to 400 metres were dominated by West Africa origined individuals living in the Americas.
Question: modern athletics is obviously greatly influenced by the Greek athletic traditions: marathon, discuss, javelin, etc., the question is was the Greek tradition in athletics indigneous?
Question: Apart from wrestling what athletics did the Ancient Egyptians engage in?
Question: why do countries in the vicinity of East Africa such as Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia have almost zero success in modern athletics?
Question: why do Nigerians, Ghanians, Senegalese and their E3a kin in the Americans show such dominance in shorter distances while East Africans(E3b)(Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, Tanzania, etc.) show an equal dominance in the longer distances.
Note that in old days that the conventional European thesis was that "negroes" had limited lung capacity so they couldn't run long distances. It w as also claimed that 'negroes' lacked sufficient discipline and planning skills to run long distances successfully. It was also claimed that suucess in running long distances required "caucasoid" genes and phenotypical traits.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Africans dominate in running events because of their genetic makeup. High percentages of fast twitch muscle tissue for the sprints ( West Africans )and high percentages of low twitch and some kinda of superior oxygen exchange system ( East/North Africans ) for the distances.
Interesting how the "Caucasoid" North Africans have the same running capabilities that the East Africans have and yet no other "Caucasoids" outside of the continent can run like the East Africans.
Supports the evidence of East African migration to the North wouldnt u say?
Posts: 404 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
But the champion runners of East Africa are generally quite dimunitive on the average--males and females.
But again why hasn't Egypt(85 million) produced no athletes of note while Morocco and Algeria are noted--like the Kenyans and Ethiopians--for their distance running skills?
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
If a large group of Chinese were placed in the middle of Africa, after a while only the fastest of that group would still be alive. They would in turn have children that would probably be faster than the previous group. A few generations of this and there would be some fast chinese running around the continent trying to keep away from the tigers. No mystery as to why Africans are faster.
Posts: 197 | Registered: Jul 2007
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But again why hasn't Egypt(85 million) produced no athletes of note while Morocco and Algeria are noted--like the Kenyans and Ethiopians--for their distance running skills?
This may have more to do with the culture of sport in that country and nothing to do with the ability of Egyptians to run. Why are Jamaicans running so well and yet we see no other dominant carribbean athletes.....it's the emphasis placed on the event in that nation.
If a large group of Chinese were placed in the middle of Africa, after a while only the fastest of that group would still be alive.
Why would only the fast survive?
A few generations of this and there would be some fast chinese running around the continent trying to keep away from the tigers.
There are no Tigers in Africa.
East Asians lack the genentic diversity to produce a population of fast athletes comparable to West Africans.....I dont see any other population producing that without Genetic engineering......just my informed opinion based on what Tishkoff said about where the non-african world population descend from....East Africans.
Posts: 404 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Various sports activities as spectator events wasn't born or limited to ancient Greece.
As for the question of good long-distance runners from Morocco, Algeria, Kenya and Ethiopia, this has to do with preparations and planning done in respective countries in the said athletic areas. Some of these same list of countries, on the other hand, save for Morocco, have rarely shown up in soccer World Cup events repetitively...for intance. I highly doubt that it has anything to do with having "superior" sports genes in one type of sports or the other. **If** African states invested sufficiently in sports in general, as they should do so in other sectors of the society, Africans would *generally* be a force to be reckened with in any sporting event, rather than just be known for certain "niche" in sports.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Obenga: East Asians lack the genentic diversity to produce a population of fast athletes comparable to West Africans.....I dont see any other population producing that without Genetic engineering......just my informed opinion based on what Tishkoff said about where the non-african world population descend from....East Africans. [/QB]
I don't believe genetic engineering is really necessary to produce faster atheletes. Horse racing is a good example of how selective breeding can produce superior horses.
Posts: 197 | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
And may I offer a cooling down period gentlemen? That would be really hip. Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
You guys are trash talkin on here as if you couldn't PM this( send eachother private messages).
More show than substance maybe?
quote:Originally posted by lamin: Also noteworthy is that the shorter distances from 100 to 400 metres were dominated by West Africa origined individuals from in the Americas.
I think there may be a couple more things in play here than just genetic diversity.
Lifestyles and culture come to my mind.
And could this have to do with some sort of evolution similar to convergent evolution? Kind of like what Celt suggested?
I know a theory was put out there and is recieving skepticism because of the time that would have to have passed for such a change to take place.
quote:Originally posted by Obenga: East Asians lack the genentic diversity to produce a population of fast athletes comparable to West Africans.....I dont see any other population producing that without Genetic engineering......just my informed opinion based on what Tishkoff said about where the non-african world population descend from....East Africans.
So non-Africans don't have the genetic diversity to produce such athletes ... makes sense, but then again what doesn't make sense is the fact that East africans (with greater genetic diversity than West africans) wouldn't do as well as those in the West in sports that take physical strength, or running short distances.
I've also heard somewhere that Europeans were on average the best suited for heavy lifting because of their (stalkier? )bone structure.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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But on a pure per capita basis Cuba has produced excellent world class runners(all of African phenotype), Bahamas(on a strict per capita basis, quite impressive) and Dominican Republic(world champion in 400 metres hurdling).
The British and French running teams are all made up predominantly of West Africa-origined athletes--despite their relatively small national population percentages.
In terms of present world rankings re shorter distances: 1)USA, 2)Jamaica, 3)Nigeria(Europe's top sprinter is Nigerian but now runs for Portugal), 4)Britain, 5) Ghana, and 6)Brazil. Haiti, I believe, also produced some top-rate sprinters but under Canadian flag.
The last European of note in this regard was Valerie Borzov of ex-USSR--but after the defaulting of some U.S. sprinters.
In any case, check the archives and note the huge fuss made about this "flash in the pan".
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
^Re Lamin on athlete makeup in various countries: All the more reason to understand that, if African athletic programs were sufficiently funded, they'll produce a noticeablely impressive presence in althletics *in general*.
quote:Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
quote:Originally posted by Obenga: East Asians lack the genentic diversity to produce a population of fast athletes comparable to West Africans.....I dont see any other population producing that without Genetic engineering......just my informed opinion based on what Tishkoff said about where the non-african world population descend from....East Africans.
So non-Africans don't have the genetic diversity to produce such athletes ... makes sense, but then again what doesn't make sense is the fact that East africans (with greater genetic diversity than West africans) wouldn't do as well as those in the West in sports that take physical strength, or running short distances.
What specific genes are we told about, which have unequivocal influence in certain athletic capabilities?
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Insult exchanges and threats made by Mystery Solver and Celt deleted (which would have made Grumman f6f's post and that of Willing Thinker {What Box} make sense).
Celt, this is your first warning.
Mysetery Solver, this is your second warning. Reform your behavior. You only have one warning left.
Posts: 113 | From: Dayr al-Barsha | Registered: May 2007
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Insult exchanges and threats made by Mystery Solver and Celt deleted.
Celt, this is your first warning.
Mysetery Solver, this is your second warning. Reform your behavior. You only have one warning left.
What is the warning for? I am guessing that you can clearly read in print who flamed the ethnic war here...but then, perhaps not. Alas, what was I thinking; of course, Celt can make such claims here and not get called out on it.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Insult exchanges and threats made by Mystery Solver and Celt deleted.
Celt, this is your first warning.
Mysetery Solver, this is your second warning. Reform your behavior. You only have one warning left.
What is the warning for? I am guessing that you can clearly read in print who flamed the ethnic war here...but then, perhaps not. Alas, what was I thinking; of course, Celt can make such claims here and not get called out on it.
My commenting on this thread is to show why no one is superior, nothing more.Put any group of people in the right conditions and they will adapt over generations.
Posts: 197 | Registered: Jul 2007
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You should know darn well the racist remark was not about the fast Asians thing, but the running from tigers in Africa( though tigers live in Asia).
What's funny is Cheetahs which also live in Africa are many times faster than humans( what like almost 3X so ). Speed is not what being human is about.
Which is probably why Obenga asked: "Why would only the fast survive?"
quote:Mystery / Supercar:
Celt be prepared to check your pm, for details on the specifics of this meeting. I'll be happy to make this meeting a reality.
LOL
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
quote:Originally posted by Henu:
Insult exchanges and threats made by Mystery Solver and Celt deleted.
Celt, this is your first warning.
Mysetery Solver, this is your second warning. Reform your behavior. You only have one warning left.
What is the warning for? I am guessing that you can clearly read in print who flamed the ethnic war here...but then, perhaps not. Alas, what was I thinking; of course, Celt can make such claims here and not get called out on it.
Well ... I would say that maybe your initial response to Celt's "running around from the tigers in Africa" remark should not have been deleted, since it just called his remark racist. Unless Celt's initial remark (post #5 RE.#6) was to be deleted, which I by the way didnot initially even realize was racist. Really, it was just ignorant, but I know where you're coming from..
quote:Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
LOL
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
quote:Originally posted by Henu:
Insult exchanges and threats made by Mystery Solver and Celt deleted.
Celt, this is your first warning.
Mysetery Solver, this is your second warning. Reform your behavior. You only have one warning left.
What is the warning for? I am guessing that you can clearly read in print who flamed the ethnic war here...but then, perhaps not. Alas, what was I thinking; of course, Celt can make such claims here and not get called out on it.
Well ... I would say that maybe your initial response to Celt's "running around from the tigers in Africa" remark should not have been deleted, since it just called his remark racist. Unless Celt's initial remark (post #5 RE.#6) was to be deleted, which I by the way didnot initially even realize was racist. Really, it was just ignorant, but I know where you're coming from..
Anyway, any answers to my questions??!
No?
The fact of the matter is, I was only replying to Celt, and as for the threats, anyone who can read elementary English, would also realize that I was simplying replying to his call [for which, btw, he could feel free to see the pm I just sent him]. In any case, as far as biased Henu's bent to getting rid off me is concerned, point is well taken.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}: LOL
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
quote:Originally posted by Henu:
Insult exchanges and threats made by Mystery Solver and Celt deleted.
Celt, this is your first warning.
Mysetery Solver, this is your second warning. Reform your behavior. You only have one warning left.
What is the warning for? I am guessing that you can clearly read in print who flamed the ethnic war here...but then, perhaps not. Alas, what was I thinking; of course, Celt can make such claims here and not get called out on it.
Well ... I would say that maybe your initial response to Celt's "running around from the tigers in Africa" remark should not have been deleted, since it just called his remark racist. Unless Celt's initial remark (post #5 RE.#6) was to be deleted, which I by the way didnot initially even realize was racist. Really, it was just ignorant, but I know where you're coming from..
Anyway, any answers to my questions??!
No?
I'm sorry you didn't get the point I was trying to make. Ignorance has redefined itself apparently. Posts: 197 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
^Celt,
You should know damn well that the objection to the remark was not directed towards the fast Asians thing, but the running from tigers in Africa( though tigers live in Asia).
quote:Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}: ^^
quote:Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
^Celt,
You should know damn well that the objection to the remark was not directed towards the fast Asians thing, but the running from tigers in Africa( though tigers live in Asia).
^^
Gotcha ...I'm well aware of my mistake. Just didn't think I would be crucified for it. Posts: 197 | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
It was no mistake. You intentionally made a racialist remark. Man up and stand by your anti-African hatred.
It's well known that Masai for instance one of the few Africans in lion country once had to single handedly huntdown and slay a lion before being admitted to manhood.
You were more than obviously insinuating that all Africa is a wild land where natives must flee lions. You patently are thus promoting the Tarzan image of Africa and Africans in an attempt to belittle Africa and Africans plain and simple.
But then many black Americans and certain horn/east Africans hold this same sentiment about inner Africa and inner Africans, that of uncivilized nature boy wildmen of a savage land ruled by animals instead of environment taming sentient human beings.
Hence your protection by such ones of similar bent and anti-African self-hating mindset.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: [QB] It was no mistake. You intentionally made a racialist remark. Man up and stand by your anti-African hatred.
It's well known that Masai for instance one of the few Africans in lion country once had to single handedly huntdown and slay a lion before being admitted to manhood.
You were more than obviously insinuating that all Africa is a wild land where natives must flee lions. You patently are thus promoting the Tarzan image of Africa and Africans in an attempt to belittle Africa and Africans plain and simple.
I specified that the Chinese would also flee tigers(Lions intended). I could have said white people, but the me being a racist comments would have came sooner.Where is it that I have implied that other races would have stood and fought lions while the Africans would have ran? My point was that no race is superior only advantaged by enviromental conditioning and you took it the wrong way. Am I stepping on egg shells here simply because of my race? Do I need to kiss everyones ass on here and tell them what they want to hear instead of what I think is the truth? Did I strike a chord of truth by my comments and send the whole thread into a tailspin? What's the problem here?
Posts: 197 | Registered: Jul 2007
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Insult exchanges and threats made by Mystery Solver and Celt deleted.
Celt, this is your first warning.
Mysetery Solver, this is your second warning. Reform your behavior. You only have one warning left.
What is the warning for? I am guessing that you can clearly read in print who flamed the ethnic war here...but then, perhaps not. Alas, what was I thinking; of course, Celt can make such claims here and not get called out on it.
Who flamed the war is not everything. You also attacked him and made threats. I have nothing against you, but insults and threats are not allowed. I didn't mean to delete the first response (there were a lot of posts to be deleted), but it was against the rules anyway, further instigating the flame war that was to come:
quote:^Just another of the usual racist and intellectually empty comment from the clueless white boy [aka - former alias: Horemheb], who has never set foot in Africa.
Now that's the end of that discussion. You may proceed to discuss the topic at hand; if it degenerates again, the thread will be closed and appropriate consequences carried out.
Posts: 113 | From: Dayr al-Barsha | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Delete the entire series of comments starting with the one that sparked it all that is unless your design is to tittilate lurkers and new comers by leaving racialist flame bating intact for posterity.
The racialist accusations did not come because of you choosing Chinese over white europeans - I think you need to reread alTakruris post.
Honestly, I think I am one of the most pro black african people on the forum, but that didn't phase me enough to elaborate like ma man alTukr or "crucify" you by calling you racist.
posted
Everyone carry on with the original topic and I'll stay out of it. I really don't want to get into anything else that is going to get me or anyone else banned.
Posts: 197 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Delete the entire series of comments starting with the one that sparked it all that is unless your design is to tittilate lurkers and new comers by leaving racialist flame bating intact for posterity.
Posting racialist (not racist) comments is fine, so long as it's not instigating; the original comment (about tigers, etc.) was obviously completely wrong, but not flaming.
Posts: 113 | From: Dayr al-Barsha | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Obenga: There are no Tigers in Africa.
Lions will do. [/QB]
U dont get it.....there are Tigers in China....it didnt help produce a population of fast chinese in China and yet u think Tigers in Africa will produce fast Chinese in Africa after a while.
China actively search out all the athletic talent they can find, they place great emphasis on finding athletes from a young age and training them. We know how big their population and is and yet no sprinters of note.
Genetics is probably the reason Europeans dominate in power lifting and swimming.....there are probably all kinds of athletic events that will give some populations an advantage over others.
Posts: 404 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Insult exchanges and threats made by Mystery Solver and Celt deleted.
Celt, this is your first warning.
Mysetery Solver, this is your second warning. Reform your behavior. You only have one warning left.
What is the warning for? I am guessing that you can clearly read in print who flamed the ethnic war here...but then, perhaps not. Alas, what was I thinking; of course, Celt can make such claims here and not get called out on it.
Who flamed the war is not everything.
Of course, it is everything, because the people or person(s) attacked will not simply stand there like statues and take it, while you sit there do nothing until those attacked defend themselves.
quote:Henu:
You also attacked him and made threats.
Repost where I've attacked the guy. I simply called him out, and named him clueless, rightfully for making such an overt racist comment. But let me guess, you are going to whine about how you've already deleted the posts that everyone else who participated in this thread earlier on, will have witnessed. Celt is the one who 'dared' me to face him, and I replied him on his "keyboard" bluff. So, if the toothless keyboard threat of violence has occurred here, you had to look no further than the person offering the threat. Tell me, how that is an attack, as opposed to a reply to a call made before me? If someone asked you to face them, and you replied that you are willing to take the offer, tell me Henu, how that reflects on you [as the replier] as the attacker? I know, this will be followed by self-pitied and self-aggrandized false sense of accomplishment on your part, telling me how you've already deleted the posts and cannot regain them, and how "unbiased" of a moderator you supposedly are. I tell you, right now trolls got to be looking at you, and know that they can count on you for ridding the forum off of its top contributors, who have helped shape Egyptsearch into the forum it has come to be, i.e. one where nobody can come in unabated, spreading propaganda and subjective reactionary motivated ideology, that necessitates the gross distortion of the Nile Valley heritages. I know for sure that if I were a troll, I'd be extremely happy to have you as a moderator.
quote:Henu:
I have nothing against you, but insults and threats are not allowed.
Of course you do. It was clear for eveyone else to see herein, but YOU, that Celt has made a blatant racist comment, and was addressed accordingly. Likewise, it was clear to everyone else but YOU, that it was Celt who instigated the threat of face-to-face violence, and I merely replied him on his cheap "keyboard talk" bluff. If you didn't have something against me, you would have warned him alone, for he is the trouble maker here, and make it known to him, that he alone will be held accountable for starting trouble. Trolls don't care if they have to drag in contributing posters along with them; heck, that is their goal, to get obedient gullible moderators to cleanse the forum of its challenging and knowledgeable posters...or intimidate them into silence as garbage takes hold on the forum. That is the danger that this forum faces; mark my words.
The same thing you did when Tyranno spat out gratuitous profanity at me, for which you excused yourself, by saying that you weren't a moderator. Knowing how biased you are, Tyranno knew he could count on you once again, while he offered his "apology" repeating the profanity along with it. Others who closely examined the trend, also knew they can take their chance like Tyranno and Celt, and start flaming. A good example of this would be Africa, who casually started flaming in a thread about the questionable use of "black African" in daily African studies discourse. With impunity, he went so far as to drag me into another discourse, where Mansa Musa basically insisted on having people divulge their personal info, which has nothing to do with either the subject of the board or is of anyone's business; sure enough, his goal was accomplished, because right after you warned him, you also warned me with your first "official warning"...again, for responding to attacks leveled at me. So yes, you do have something against me, and now, I too have one against you...your skewed and biased moderation!
quote:Henu:
I didn't mean to delete the first response (there were a lot of posts to be deleted), but it was against the rules anyway, further instigating the flame war that was to come
You should have let the posts in, because they would have vindicated me, and exposed you for who you are.
quote:Henu:
quote:^Just another of the usual racist and intellectually empty comment from the clueless white boy [aka - former alias: Horemheb], who has never set foot in Africa.
Now that's the end of that discussion. You may proceed to discuss the topic at hand; if it degenerates again, the thread will be closed and appropriate consequences carried out.
I'm done with this thread...pending any additional reply to you; Celt has done his job; he knew you wouldn't disappoint him, and he was right!
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Delete the entire series of comments starting with the one that sparked it all that is unless your design is to tittilate lurkers and new comers by leaving racialist flame bating intact for posterity.
Posting racialist (not racist) comments is fine, so long as it's not instigating; the original comment (about tigers, etc.) was obviously completely wrong, but not flaming.
You may sit there and fool yourself into thinking that someone saying that Africans became good at running, by being chased by tigers, is not a racist comment, especially from a poster notorious for his racist stand on Africans...and that placing a bunch of Chinese in the same situation, they'll come out as fast runners. Oh yeah, it is a comment that has to be taken as "informational" at best, and taken at face value, for if Africans can run that fast, they'd be actually faster than even tigers...duh. At worst, it should be taken as "ignorant" or what you dubbed "racialist", not "racist".
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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It was no mistake. You intentionally made a racialist remark. Man up and stand by your anti-African hatred.
It's well known that Masai for instance one of the few Africans in lion country once had to single handedly huntdown and slay a lion before being admitted to manhood.
You were more than obviously insinuating that all Africa is a wild land where natives must flee lions. You patently are thus promoting the Tarzan image of Africa and Africans in an attempt to belittle Africa and Africans plain and simple.
But then many black Americans and certain horn/east Africans hold this same sentiment about inner Africa and inner Africans, that of uncivilized nature boy wildmen of a savage land ruled by animals instead of environment taming sentient human beings.
Hence your protection by such ones of similar bent and anti-African self-hating mindset.
quote:Originally posted by Celt: Gotcha ...I'm well aware of my "mistake" Just didn't think I would be crucified for it.
Of course, as highlighted, that is just it. Anyone who couldn't read into those implications, would have to be profoundly stupid to have missed it. I will differ with you, and say that his comment was outright racist. In fact, his comments would have obviously applied to those same horn/east Africans that you mentioned, as they were amongst the subjects mentioned as being known to have good long-distance runners. If we were so gullible, we would have to look at Celts comments with blank faces, when he basically suggests that these said peoples don't actually do the necessary preparations and planning for the athletic events, but basically live in the bushes, where they "unintentionally" become fast-runners, because if they were to survive being chased by wild animals, namely the tiger, they'd have to outrun the said wild animals. So I guess, "clueless" people of those countries are just randomly picked up from the wild, and are told to run against other athletes from around the world, without having a clue as to the goal of the event or any associated incentive that came along with it.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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You are wrong about Europeans dominating swimming and power-lifting because of genetics. The only way one can prove your claim is for swimming facilities and lower-lifting facilities be available equally to all populations and all encouraged to participate.
On the other hand, all the sports and training conditions that Africans excel at are easily available to European populations. For example, any individual of European background, were he/she interested in distance running, could very easily find excellent training conditions either in Europe, North America or Australia.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Of course, it is everything, because the people or person(s) attacked will not simply stand there like statues and take it
1, this is the internet.
2, we have P.M.s, or private messages.
quote:Originally posted by lamin: Obenga,
You are wrong about Europeans dominating swimming and power-lifting because of genetics. The only way one can prove your claim is for swimming facilities and lower-lifting facilities be available equally to all populations and all encouraged to participate.
That still wouldn't prove anything.
Other factors come into play are motivation and incentive, trust me, I love in a diverse area, these are crucial.
I notice that on the predominantly black South side, and in Youngstown in general, kids are outside playing all day, or we dance, or we're doing something social.
In the more "white" areas, such as the one I live in, we're into more laid back activities. We do social activities almost as much as them (visiting, video games), but there's much more to do than physical activities.
Youngstown teams are better than those in my town-ship until I got to my (diverse) highschool( technically in Y-town).
However, as far as high school football's concerned, we've played some sorry black teams, white teams, and gotten beaten by some white and black teams.
Point being, that when they try, they are just as good as us on average (until we approach the highest skill level (pro level).
quote:On the other hand, all the sports and training conditions that Africans excel at are easily available to European populations. For example, any individual of European background, were he/she interested in distance running, could very easily find excellent training conditions either in Europe, North America or Australia.
Also lamin, black Americans have more access to study resources, yet are outdone by their African counterparts. You should clearly see what I'm getting at.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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Note that I used the word "encourage" to qualify what I wrote about access to sporting activities. Encouragement usually comes from private and government intitiatives and as a result there would always be individuals who on account of just persoan interest or fascination will engage in a sport or activity the general culture shows little inclination for.
You mention educational resources for African Americans and Africans. As an egalitarian your observation is erroneous.
Here's why: African Americans are some 4% of the world's total black population. Africans in Africa constitute some 90% of t he world's blacks so on a strictly per capita basis your point doesn't hold.
I don't deny that cultural(that is learned behaviour that is passed on generationally)factors play an important role and that's why when there's intervention[encouragement along with opportunities] into a specific culture by outside forces such as the government--cultural traits often change.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
One reason crying racism has lost the power to make people cringe at the label is because of its inappropriate use for lesser evils. If one does not effect another's physical financial educational etc being due to race then that one is not a racist.
Someone who expresses race based ideas is just a racialist not a racist. Those of us who actually took part in any struggle against racism know this.
Racism is a term designating behaviour. Racialism is a term reserved for doctrines.
Racism is physical enforcement. Racialism is theoretical and ideological.
This ideology originated in Western Europe in the mid eighteenth-century and extended to about the mid-twentieth.
Tzvetan Todorov Race and Racism in Bill Ashcroft, Gareth Griffths & Helen Tiffin (eds.) The Postcolonial Studies Reader, 2nd ed. Oxford: Routledge, 2006 pp. 213-215
Apparently having never undergone assualt, overt or subtle, Henu doesn't know a racialist insult when (s)he reads one.
This attitude is epitomized by the anecdote where the American black man is handed a watermelon by his white "colleagues" and thanks them for it but later becomes quite irate toward his black "colleagues" upon discovering they smashed the watermelon.
Pity the fool who lacks the understanding to even recognize (s)he's been insulted.
quote:Originally posted by Henu:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Delete the entire series of comments starting with the one that sparked it all that is unless your design is to tittilate lurkers and new comers by leaving racialist flame bating intact for posterity.
Posting racialist (not racist) comments is fine, so long as it's not instigating; the original comment (about tigers, etc.) was obviously completely wrong, but not flaming.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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You are wrong about Europeans dominating swimming and power-lifting because of genetics. The only way one can prove your claim is for swimming facilities and lower-lifting facilities be available equally to all populations and all encouraged to participate.
Those facilities are available to Blacks living in western society.....America and Europe dont bar Black athletes from using them.
Blacks have less subcutaneous fat and denser bones....a bad combo if u wanna be a good swimmer because it makes one less buoyant.
Now I am generalizing a bit we could get technical and speak of specific groups/populations and such because it's not really as simple as saying black people or even africans. Different populations in Africa have different traits.
Anyone who wants to think we may see 8 native americans make the 100m dash olympic final if they train the same as the elite west african descended guys can go ahead and think that.....they should pack a lunch while they are waiting to see that because they are going to be waiting a while for that to happen.
I realize it's not PC but the physical differences are a matter of record at this point...it is what it is. Maybe some other populations can challenge Northen europeans in the power strength events....like some of these pacific island guys for example but are u really trying to say any population of humans can physically do what any other can?
Posts: 404 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Just to let you guys know (especially Celt), that it is just as racist to assume superior traits of physicality for a group or 'race' of people as it is to assume inferior traits of mentality.
The point is any individual can attain such physical skills through good training and especially a good genotype, although such genotype has nothing to do with skin-color and other features.
I'm sure ancient Greek men would give all modern world Olympic contestants a good run for their money (pun intended). Forensic analysis of Classical Greek remains show that Greek runners during that time were in many ways superior to their modern counterparts and many suggest this to be due to intensive training.
Even the modern Africans runners like those from Kenya didn't get to where they were without training such as running for tens of miles straight.
By the way, Mystery brought up an interesting topic.
Posts: 26285 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
quote:Henu:
Who flamed the war is not everything.
quote:Super Solver:
Of course, it is everything, because the people or person(s) attacked will not simply stand there like statues and take it
1, this is the internet.
And?
quote:Willing Thinker:
2, we have P.M.s, or private messages.
1) Yes, we have PMs. My response to Celt had something to do with what he said in relation to the ongoing discussion, and so, I'm not going to PM him that.
2) If he attacks me publically, I'll deal with him publically.
3) I had made it a general rule to close my PM, which I didn't initially mind leaving open, hoping to leave it open for constructive discussants who are well-meaning and want to learn about something, but it soon became exposed to abusers, and so was closed, until I was forced to confront Celt and adviced to PM him for further inappropriate exchange.
4)You could do the same, i.e. using PM, with the many back and forth bickerings you've done with various posters. Practice what you preach.
Ps - for those advocating genetic superiority for sports. Again, please locate the genes that we are told are responsible, and how. Thanks.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
"Speed Demons The Domination of Sport by Blacks By Jose Antonio, PhD and Chris Street, MS
WARNING: If you're a white bigot, don't read the following article. It might cause your red neck to get even redder. The premise of this article is, quite simply, that blacks are better athletes than whites. Authors Antonio and Street back it up mostly with cold, hard, seemingly irrefutable facts. Why has it been published in Testosterone? Well, it's about sports, it's about muscle, and it's something other publishers are loathe to touch. It's too?controversial. I guess that's what attracted us to the article in the first place. But why is it controversial? Anyone who watches sports must have noticed that there are a disproportionate number of black professional athletes out there. It must be that Billy Bob doesn't want to hear that blacks are faster than whites. In fact, Billy Bob doesn't want to hear that blacks are superior to whites in any way, shape, manner, or form.
Read the article. Tell us what you think. If it pisses you off, we're not located at 10 North Meade in Colorado Springs; we're in the building next door; or maybe the one across the street; anywhere but 10 North Meade.
"Well, I always say that the best athletes in the world play in the NBA. I say this because the hand-eye coordination is there, the speed, the jumping ability. They are the best conditioned athletes in the world, in my opinion.... It is a fact, you look at it and it goes from somebody as small as Mugsy Bogues that plays in that league to someone as big as Shaquille O'Neil. Hakeem Olajuwon is probably 7 foot with the agility of someone that is about 6 foot. Its just a fact that blacks are better. I don't know why, it's maybe some genetic makeup or something, but it's there."
?Excerpt from an interview with Andre Ware NFL Quarterback and Heisman Trophy Winner
The Myth of Black and White Athletic Equality
It is apparent to most of us that there are profound differences between individuals when it comes to academic, professional, or athletic performance. In fact, it's so obvious that we expect someone to be the tallest, shortest, smartest, fastest, or dumbest within any group of people. Your experience in grade school through college made it apparent that not all of us could make the dean's list much less play on a Division I football team. Some people just don't have the tools.
Why then do people assume that all groups of people (i.e. races, ethnicities, etc.) have the same talents and capacities? Certainly, this country was founded on the belief that all men (and presumably women) were created equally? Was it not? The Declaration of Independence states that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." President Jefferson was a brilliant man, but with regard to all men created equal, certainly in a biological sense, nothing could be further from the truth.
There is a huge difference between male black and white athletes when it comes to speed, i.e. sprint performance, particularly the 100-meter (100m) dash. The top twenty fastest times in the men's 100m dash in 1994 were all held by blacks (from different countries such as US, Canada, Nigeria, and Great Britain). An examination of the Olympic 100m dash in the past 20-30 years shows an utter dominance by black athletes. Within the US, it is obvious that black Americans dominate the 100m dash at the high school and college level. The "speed" positions in professional American football (i.e. tailback, wide receiver, cornerback) are almost exclusively held by blacks. In fact, there was just a single white athlete starting at any of those three positions in professional football in 1997.
Such a huge discrepancy, yet the most common (public) explanation for this phenomenon is that blacks are socialized to excel at these events. Really? You mean to say that out of a country of approximately 260 million, where blacks make up only 12% of the population, in which there are 5-6 times more whites than blacks, that there are no white guys who excel at these activities? Furthermore, you never see an Asian (American or otherwise) competing in the higher echelon of these sports. Nor do you see any Hispanics or Latinos in these events. Granted, socialization may explain, in part, the apparent dominance of blacks in football or basketball, but this explanation is sorely inadequate when it comes to running.
Everyone can run, and it doesn't matter whether you are in China, Russia, or the US You don't need any special equipment and it doesn't require any specialized skills. Because of the ubiquity of running, one would expect somewhat proportional representation among all races or groups of people in world class competition (e.g., Olympics). That, of course, is based on the premise that all races have equal capacities for running fast. Yet, the reality is that one group, blacks, win nearly every sprint race. Whites will on occasion win (Valeri Borzov of the former Soviet Union won the 100m and 200m dash at the 1972 Olympics). However, Asians will, in our humble opinion, never be competitive with black Americans in world class sprinting. The idea that blacks are socialized to excel in sprints is disputable in that many of these black athletes come from countries other than the United States. Are blacks from the United Kingdom, the Caribbean, and West Africa also "socialized" to run fast?
Besides, in a country with over 20% of the world's population, why can't China field a 100m sprinter to compete with black Americans who represent a paltry 0.6% of the world's population. Is there a white or Asian equivalent of Carl Lewis or Michael Johnson out there?
It certainly stands to reason that if races differ in facial shape, height, weight, skin color, or hair texture, why should a characteristic such as running fast be identical between different groups? It would seem extremely naive to believe that we all have the same capacities and abilities.
Motor Geniuses
Scientific evidence suggests that black infants are more advanced than white children in motor development during the first two years of life. Several studies which have compared black and white American infants suggest a strong race difference in motor development. Fourth, fifth, and sixth grade black boys and girls run the 35 yard dash faster than their white peers. Also, black boys in high school have a greater vertical jump than white boys. In a review by Robert Malina in The Canadian Journal of Sport Sciences (1988), the author compiled several studies of motor performance between black and white males between 1938 and 1976. Even over this extended period of time, the results are remarkably consistent. That is, blacks did better in tests of motor ability at all time points. Blacks performed better in the dash (sprint). How much of a difference in motor performance can be attributed to environmental vs. genetic causes? The fact that black children demonstrate better motor abilities than whites does not support the idea that blacks are pushed into sports which require speed. Certainly, these children have not had ample time nor the instruction or coaching to train for speed.
Real World Speed
In an intriguing study done in 1988 at Ohio State University by David W. Hunter (now at Hampton University), he compared laboratory and "real-world" measurements of anaerobic power or performance. He examined 74 black and 62 white males (avg age = 16.5 yr). There were no differences in age, height, weight, lean body weight, and body mass index (body weight in kilograms divided by the square of body height in meters). However, black subjects had significantly less percentage of body fat. There were no differences in anaerobic power measured using the Wingate test and the Margaria power test (two common laboratory tests used to measure anaerobic performance). However, black subjects performed significantly better at the vertical jump and 40-yard dash (4.8 vs. 5.0 seconds) than the white subjects. A difference of 4.8 and 5.0 seconds in the 40-yard dash may seem insignificant. But on the playing field, this numerically small difference could translate into a huge performance difference. All things being equal, the faster athlete is usually the better athlete.
Interestingly, Dr. Hunter performed a statistical manipulation called Analysis of Covariance, or ANCOVA for short. ANCOVA for the 40-yard dash with the percent fat as the covariate, according to Dr. Hunter, "washed out" the statistical difference in the 40-yard dash between the groups. What this means in English is that when you equate blacks and whites for percent fat, then there is no difference in sprint performance. Furthermore, when height, weight, percent fat, lean body mass, and body mass index were used as covariates, there was no longer any differences between blacks and whites. But what's so intriguing about the Hunter data is that even while equalizing percent fat for the black and white subjects, the black subjects still had a faster dash time! (4.851 sec vs. 4.947 sec). The fact of the matter is, blacks have on average, much less body fat than whites. And if this variable provides black males with an advantage in sprinting, then so be it. Massaging the data with various statistical tests only clouds the obvious facts. Blacks and whites are not the same. Blacks (of all ages) do run faster than whites on average. Yes, there are fast white guys, but not many.
Fast Versus Slow Muscle
Muscle is the key to athletics, period! There is nothing more obvious in comparing the physiques of different athletes than the way their muscles are shaped for a specific task or purpose. Keep in mind that sprint (and endurance) athletes at the world-class level tend to exhibit extreme differences in fiber-type percentages. Sprint athletes may have 75% or more fast-twitch fibers while distance runners may have 75% or more of slow-twitch fibers. For the most part, fiber type composition is a product of heredity; however, training may alter it slightly, but not enough to result in the high percentage of fast-twitch fibers needed in elite sprinters.
Canadian scientists, Drs. J. Simoneau and C. Bouchard, have estimated that 40% of the phenotypic variance of fiber type is due to environmental influences (i.e. exercise) while 45% is associated with genetic factors. (The remaining 15% is due to sampling error). So in actuality, all athletes are born with a given potential. Training will maximize that potential. But if you're not born with the potential, you will never become a world-class sprinter or distance runner.
Does the predominance of blacks in sprints suggest that blacks, as a group, tend to be better endowed with fast-twitch muscle fibers? There is only one scientific report which measured skeletal muscle characteristics in a black and white population. Ama, et al. examined 23 black male African students from Cameroon, Senegal, Zaire, Ivory Coast, and Burundi and 23 male Caucasian students from Laval University in Canada. These were untrained sedentary individuals. They were matched for age, body weight, and body mass index (weight measured in kilos divided by the square of height in meters). Muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis muscle of the thigh revealed that the white subjects had 8% more Type I muscle fibers and 7% less Type IIa fibers than black subjects. Enzymes involved in the phosphagenic and glycolytic metabolic pathways were 30-40% higher in black subjects. These metabolic pathways are the ones used during quick burst activities (i.e. sprint). These results are compatible with the idea that blacks, as a group, seem to be better endowed to perform well in sprint events. We are aware, however, that other factors besides muscle fiber type can contribute to excellence in the sprint. In a similar study, scientists compared the performance of 15 black men from Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Rwanda, Tchad, and Zaire and 17 white Canadians of French descent. They were matched for weight, height, body mass index, fat-free mass, and thigh volume. They did maximal isometric contractions of the knee extensors for 10, 30, and 90 seconds and found no statistically significant difference in maximal force or total work performed. However, there was a trend for blacks to exceed whites in peak power output (9% higher) although it was not statistically significant.
Keep in mind, however, that very small differences in physical performance may translate into a very meaningful difference in the "real" world of athletic competition. Just check out any major track meet and examine the differences in time between first and last place. The difference in time between first and second place is often much less than 1 percent. The difference between first and last place is a mere 2-3 percent. When the difference between the gold and silver medal is determined by 100ths of seconds, it is obvious that just because a statistical difference is not demonstrable, it does not necessarily mean that real performance differences do not exist! So in reference to the aforementioned Canadian study, it is true that statistically significant differences were not found between blacks and whites in peak power output (albeit blacks had a 9% higher average value); nevertheless, it is obvious that differences much smaller than that result in very profound effects on who the winners and losers are in a race.
More Muscle, Less Fat
Anthropometry (the science of measuring the human body) and body fat distribution was ascertained in over 100 Anglo-, black-, and Mexican-American men and women. Black-American men had significantly less total fat than either Anglo- or Mexican-American men. Black men also had less arm fat than both groups and less truncal fat than Mexican-Americans. Black-American women tended to carry less body fat than Mexican-American women; however, they did not significantly differ from Anglo-American women.
There is ample data to show that blacks of all ages do possess less absolute and relative body fat than whites. In addition, blacks possess greater appendicular muscle mass than whites or Asians. This racial difference certainly confers an advantage in which extreme leanness is a prerequisite.
Longer Legs, But a Shorter Trunk
"We are built a little differently, built for speed?skinny calves, long legs, high asses are all characteristics of blacks. That's why blacks wear long socks. We have skinny calves, and short socks won't stay up. I'll argue with any doctor that physically we're geared to speed, and most sports have something to do with speed."
?OJ Simpson Time Magazine, 1977
Now we're not so sure about the socks, but as far as the rest of the statement, we actually agree with the Greatest Running Back (and double murderer) ever to grace the football field. The length of the upper and lower extremities between blacks, whites, and Asians is obviously different to anyone with 20/20 vision. Asians (East Asians: Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese) tend to be smaller with relatively short extremities and long torsos. Blacks tend to have relatively long extremities with short torsos and whites are somewhere in between.
As early as 1939, it has been reported that as a group, blacks tend to have longer arms and legs (as a percentage of height), narrower hips, and more slender calves than whites. According to noted scientist Robert Malina, "black youth have absolutely and relatively longer lower extremities than Mexican-American and white youth."
No Bones About It
The greater body density of blacks is likely due to a higher bone density. In a study by Bell et al., they compared bone density in 59 normal white men and 40 normal black men (ages 20-50). They found that the bone mineral density was higher in blacks than in whites measured at the lumbar spine, trochanter, and femoral neck. In a similar study which matched black and white men in mean weight, height, and body mass index, black men again had higher bone mineral densities at every site measured (5% for the radius, 10% for the lumbar spine, and 20% for the femoral neck).
Scientists believe that blacks have heavier bones at all stages of life, including infancy. Skeletons of blacks exceed white skeletons and male skeletons exceed female skeletons in mean weight and density.
That notion that bone density among American (and many African) blacks exceeds that of white and Asians is beyond dispute. Blacks maintain such a difference despite lower calcium intake than whites and a higher prevalence of lactose intolerance which prevents them from consuming dairy products.
Testosterone
It is known that testosterone is anabolic with regard to skeletal muscle and catabolic with regard to fat. Could this explain the increased muscularity and decreased fat mass of blacks vs. whites and other races or ethnicities? In the few studies that are available, blacks have a modest but significantly higher level of plasma testosterone (3-19%). Could this affect athletic performance? We strongly believe so. It would make it easier to accrue skeletal muscle mass. Further, it may aid one's training by increasing training intensity and recovery ability, translating of course, into better performance.
Summary
Based on the available evidence, it is plausible that there are physical differences between the races which cannot be accounted for by environmental influences. Some differences may or may not predispose blacks to excellence in speed events. Mere observation of both male and female sprinters reveals that the overwhelming majority of them have short torsos and relatively long upper and lower extremities. Furthermore, extreme leanness is a hallmark characteristic of elite sprinters. And it is a well known fact, that blacks on average do carry less body fat than whites. Thus, it would make sense that at least with regard to this characteristic, blacks have an advantage.
The difference in fiber type between blacks and whites needs to be repeated and confirmed. However, empirical evidence (i.e. the domination of sprints by blacks) would suggest that blacks may have a predominance of fast-twitch muscle fibers. We would speculate that a certain percentage of fast-twitch fibers is needed (>70% ?) to sprint at the elite level. This could easily be confirmed.
The higher bone density of blacks has intriguing implications. Bone density is directly related to muscle mass. Blacks do on average carry greater appendicular skeletal muscle mass. Certainly by having more skeletal muscle mass, this would confer an athletic advantage in a general sense, in that your force output should be greater (than someone with less skeletal muscle).
Hormonal factors play a role. Higher levels of testosterone and growth hormone would, in our speculation, lead to a higher fat-free mass (especially skeletal muscle and bone) and a lower fat mass.
So is it nature vs. nurture? Well, it really is both. In essence, all athletes are born and made. Modern athletic performance is a function of better training, coaching, nutrition, ergogenic aids (licit or illicit), and heredity.
It's just too bad that the public stance of many is governed more by political correctness and a fear of being labeled a bigot or racist. The notion that all groups of people are created "equally" is naive and unsupported empirically and scientifically; and only when we can admit that, can we have a truly honest discussion concerning race and athletic performance.
NOTE: The preceding article was excerpted from the book, "Speed Demons" which is currently a work-in-progress.
About the Authors
Dr. Jose Antonio earned his Ph.D. at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center. He currently teaches skeletal muscle physiology at the University of Texas, Arlington, serves as a consultant for fitness/nutrition companies, and writes both scientific and popular press articles on exercise, fitness, and nutrition. He can be reached by clicking the hotlink Dr. Antonio.
Chris Street has a Master's degree in exercise physiology and is certified by the National Strength and Conditioning Association. A former competitive powerlifter, Chris combines his knowledge of exercise science with real world experience. He currently writes on various topics including nutrition, exercise training, and drug use in sports."
Posts: 404 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
So how then do we explain the success of the distance runners from East Africa and North Africa(just Algeria and Morocco)but not Tunisia, Libya and Egypt.
The thing about blacks and swimming is pure myth. Cuba has produced good black swimmers and there was once an oustanding black swimmer from Suriname.
But blacks in the U.S. have easily beaten the white competion when they are trained to do so. Success in swimming comes from having large feet, poweful shoulders and long legs and arms. What does bone density have to do with it. After all, swimming is not just floating. It's powering your way through water using large feet and long arms.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
In my vim and vigor days I could never bench press more than 300 pounds at one time. I had been doing the weight thing for nearly a year and just couldn't do it. Of course I'm sure if I had lingered just a bit longer I probably could've bypassed that figure and tackled 350. No sweat guys. The will is there. I can do it. All the best training in the USA will see to that.
What's amazing is some here will probably look at the evidence above and say bs. Sad. Even if the above information was nowhere to be found it couldn't/wouldn't change anything.
Question: how long will it take for those seven feet dudes in Africa, with the proper training and nutrition of course, to clean and jerk 300 pounds? That's picking that weight off the floor, bringing it up to your chest then lifting it over your head.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Djehuti said: ''I'm sure ancient Greek men would give all modern world Olympic contestants a good run for their money (pun intended).
If the Black athlete finishes the 100 yard dash in 9 seconds, or hundreths more, and the Greek runner finishes two seconds behind him, how you would you classify this race... close? No. This is an ass whuppin' in track and field.
Since you bring up something over two thousand years (?) ago and attempt to use it in a modern interpretation what evidence is available to support the below contention.
''Forensic analysis of Classical Greek remains show that Greek runners during that time were in many ways superior to their modern counterparts and many suggest this to be due to intensive training.''
By the way, if you're referring to Hermes then it's no wonder this clown had wings on his feet being God of business. He probably had something to do with Ken Lay.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Ps - for those advocating genetic superiority for sports. Again, please locate the genes that we are told are responsible, and how. Thanks.
Thankyou, Supercar.^
quote:Originally posted by lamin: You mention educational resources for African Americans and Africans. As an egalitarian your observation is erroneous.
Here's why: African Americans are some 4% of the world's total black population. Africans in Africa constitute some 90% of t he world's blacks so on a strictly per capita basis your point doesn't hold.
Well I don't like labels if you're labeling me, but point taken.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: The point is any individual can attain such physical skills through good training and especially a good genotype, although such genotype has nothing to do with skin-color and other features.
THANK YOU, Djehuti, not enough people realize this simple fact.
quote:I'm sure ancient Greek men would give all modern world Olympic contestants a good run for their money (pun intended). Forensic analysis of Classical Greek remains show that Greek runners during that time were in many ways superior to their modern counterparts and many suggest this to be due to intensive training.
Even the modern Africans runners like those from Kenya didn't get to where they were without training such as running for tens of miles straight.
By the way, Mystery brought up an interesting topic.
Also, alot of people don't realize that throughout the range of human physical ability, the 'races' likely overlap, making 'race' pointless to talk about.
posted
I am not talking about genes--since gene analysis when it comes to human behaviour is a very complex thing because the environment necessarily plays an important role. Take the case of those Kenyan distance runners. I read that most come from a specific region in Kenya.
But I want to suspect that it all boils down to having the right body type for the athletic task at hand. It so happens that successful Africa-derived athletes(West and East) are endowed with the most efficient body types for the athletic tasks at hand.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Most people of all races assume that blacks are superior athletes and that this superiority is due to physical superiority as opposed to mental or psychological superiority. However, there is a complete lack of scientific evidence supporting the physical differences theory of black athletic superiority. Blacks can and must use the rapid ascent of blacks in sports as a springboard to achievement in other areas.
When I ask my white friends for evidence that blacks are superior athletes, they point immediately to the National Basketball Association (NBA) as indisputable evidence. However, I have heard these same whites state that Tiger Woods is not really a black golfer, since he is only part black and also part asian. However, they totally overlook NBA players like Mike Bibby or Jason Kidd who are also obviously part black (and lighter in complexion than Tiger Woods) but who still out-perform their blacker counterparts in the NBA.
What would surprise these whites, and many blacks is the fact that there is no scientific evidence that blacks possess physical characteristics that make them athletically superior. This does not mean that blacks may not possess these characteristics, it is just that there are no scientific, repeatable studies that prove that these differences exist.
This is significant because whites have implicitly and explicitly assumed that black physical superiority came with a trade-off; black mental inferiority. Whites have implied that while blacks might be physically superior, they lacked the mental toughness or mental stamina of whites. The rise of Tiger Woods in golf and the Williams sisters in tennis are only the most recent setbacks to this theory. However, in the past, whites applied this same assumption of mental inferiority to blacks who played football and even basketball.
In football, blacks where assumed to not be able to play quarterback, safety or middle linebacker, because these positions required too much "thinking" for the black athlete. In basketball, it was believed that blacks did not have the mental "strength" to handle the pressure of a close game. Actual athletic performance on the playing field has destroyed these beliefs.
In today's world, it is hard to understand the mental toughness required by black athletes in the 1950's and 1960's. For example, today's black athletes are routinely cheered by white spectators. Black stars are provided, or allegedly provided, star treatment by referees, coaches, the media, etc. However, the situation was the total opposite in 1950. Blacks were often booed by fans, abused and demeaned by their coaches and treated poorly by referees.
However, these athletes excelled because of their mental toughness. They performed well in spite of all of the obstacles they faced which required superior mental toughness, discipline and focus. Most importantly, these athletes had to believe in themselves for long periods of time, even when no one else did. This belief often came with a price. People in power do not liked to proven wrong, and many of these black athletes incurred the enmity of white society, which was played out in the media.
That this enmity still exists is shown by the treatment of the Williams sisters. They became the top women tennis players, but went against the recommendation of the tennis experts at almost every step of the way. Their father did not let them play in many junior tournaments before they became professionals. He did not bring in a professional coach and he predicted that they would become the top two women's tennis players, which the experts saw as arrogant bravado. However, the experts were proven wrong and but the Williams sisters have paid a price in the media.
The media picked up and re-circulated rumors that the matches between the two sisters were fixed, even though there is no hard evidence to support these rumors. Based on these rumors, a tennis crowd booed Serena Williams at a tennis tournament throughout her match. This behavior is highly unusual for tennis audiences.
However, Serena maintained her mental composure and won the match. Moreover, in the year 2002 she became the top rated player by winning the French Open on Clay and Wimbledon on grass. Grass and clay are considered more strategic surfaces and less well suited to the power game of the Williams sisters. Obviously, their mental tennis must have improved for them to become the top-rated women in the world. Not surprisingly, there are now new rumors hinting at potential steroid use.
What is more important for black people is the possibility of mental prowess as a key to success. Blacks often buy into what they are told by whites. We have bought into the belief in black physical superiority almost without question. However, what if blacks succeeded in athletics due to the very mental toughness that whites say that we lack? It seems clear that blacks for the last 50 years and beyond have consistently displayed superior mental toughness over and over again in the face of overwhelming odds.
Mental toughness is important for success no matter your profession. It is important for blacks to realize that mental toughness is also transferable. If you have it in sports, you can transfer it to business and economics. I can provide two immediate examples.
A manager at a top recruiting firm in Los Angeles is black and is the only black manager for this mid-west owned company. He is also a former college basketball player. This manager has been successful for 18 years in spite of changing economic conditions. He has achieved this success without benefit of government contracts or minority placements. He has placed predominately white candidates with white-owned companies and succeeded in supporting a family that includes four children and a stay-at-home wife. More amazingly, he has no salary, but is 100% on commission. Also, he has been a manager of the Los Angeles office for 12 years while still maintaining his commission only status.
Downstairs, in the same building is a black sales representative with the largest computer training company in the United States. This gentleman is a former college football player. He has not only survived but has excelled over ten years in spite of rapid changes in computer technology.
I know both of these gentleman personally, and what I find interesting is not their success, but their mental toughness. The black recruiting manager single-handedly saved the Los Angeles office from closure during the beginning of 2002 through his own placements. The black sales training representative has survived four layoffs in five years and likens the pressure of his job to the "two-minute drill". Both have transferred the same toughness that they learned in basketball and football to the business world. They prove that it can be done and probably scare the hell out of those whites who believe that black physical superiority implies black mental inferiority.
As a people, blacks must use our sports successes as a source of inspiration. In only 50 years, we have gone from minor participants to domination of most of the major sports and some of the minor sports. This is an unprecedented turn-around. We need to study this success and find ways to apply it to business so that in 50 years whites will be saying that we have special powers that make it impossible to compete with blacks in business.
Genetically based, anatomical differences help explain why athletes of primarily West African ancestry hold 97 percent of top sprint times, including 494 of the top 500 100-meter times, yet are not very good at endurance sports, which requires a much different physiology.
I dont think any said black athletes are superior......the thread spoke of one action....running. Certainly thats what I responded too as I pointed out weak areas for black athletes also so thats obviously not superiority.
No non west african descended male has ever run a 100 meter dash under ten seconds..... dozens of men of west african descent men have done it living in Africa, Europe, Americas....no matter what country they live in or who has trained them only men of west african descent have done it.
This has been the case over a period of decades at this point.
Training and coaching does not explain it because the same training has not allowed others to do it. The same training that a much larger group of non west african descended men have made use of and so far been unable to do it. While these men of west african descent have been doing it for decades now.
Dont get me wrong, I believe it will happen as training and nutrition continue to improve whites and asians etc will break the barrier. However with yesteryear and todays techniques still only black men can do this every year in the sport of sprinting.
It demands a useful explanation if the genetic makeup of men from this population is supposed to be excluded as valid a explanation for the phenomena.
There have been 100 meter world and olympic finals where regardless of what nation they are representing all 8 men are of west african descent.
Sprints To better understand the complex story behind this dramatic map, let's deconstruct the record book. Remember the last time a non-black set the men's world record in the 100-meter sprint? One has to go back to 1960, when German Armin Hary won the Olympic gold medal in 10.2 seconds. Today, the 100 meter distance is totally monopolized by blacks with West African roots. They are quicker out of the starting blocks and demonstrate blazing speed over short distances. Former "world's fastest human" Donovan Bailey clocked a mind-bending 27 miles per hour at the mid-point of his record-breaking race at the Atlanta Olympics.
There are no sprinters of note from Asia, even with more than 50 percent of the world's population, a Confucian and Tao tradition of discipline, and an authoritarian sports system in place in the most populous country, China. No white sprinter can be found on the list of 100-meter sprinters; the best time by a white, 10 seconds, ranks more than 200th on the all-time list. Dozens of blacks, every one with a West African ancestry, have cracked the 10-second barrier, but no sprinter of any other race. For top black sprinters, it's an every-meet occurrence.
All of the 32 finalists in the last four Olympic men's 100-meter races are of West African descent. The likelihood of that happening based on population numbers alone-blacks from that region, now living around the globe, represent approximately 8 percent of the world's population-is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001 percent.
This is talk about a group having an advantage in one very small area....this is not generalized athletic superiority across the board.
What have scientists documented? 'Evolution has shaped body types and in part athletic possibilities,' says Joseph Graves Jr, an evolutionary biologist and author of The Emperor's New Clothes: Theories of Race at the Millennium.
"Don't expect an Eskimo to show up on an NBA court or a Watusi to win the world weightlifting championship. Genes play a major role," adds Graves, himself an African AmericanPosts: 404 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Genetics is probably the reason Europeans dominate in power lifting and swimming.....there are probably all kinds of athletic events that will give some populations an advantage over others.
I think it has more to due with height and strength. Work=(Force)x(Distance) All power lifters are short in height. They have to perform less work. We will probably never see a tall power lifter unless he/she is a freak of nature.
Posts: 342 | Registered: Feb 2003
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