quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I see you deliberately avoided posting pictures of the mummies of whom you claim that they have the "closest affinities towards the E1b1a carriers of Sub Saharan Africa". Is there any specific reason for this, other than the fact that blast your fairytales to smithereens?
Now why would I need to that for?
The late 17th and 18th dynasty royal mummies display the strongest "Nubian" affinities. The difference between late 17th and 18th dynasty royal mummies and contemporary Nubians is slight. In summation, the New Kingdom Pharaohs and Queens whose mummies have been recovered bear strong similarity to either contemporary Nubians, or with Mesolithic-Holocene "Nubians".
Mesolithic Nubians were virtually identical to contemporary West Africans.
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posted
You have four tasks ahead of you, boy (assuming listening to gangsta rap didn't inspire you to drop out of primary school before you were taught how to count).
1) So again, where is your evidence that Mesolithic Nubians and modern West Africans have an especially close relationship, not shared with other African samples?
2) And how exactly does it help your case that AE were "true negroids [sic]" (lol!), when your own citation says that Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans are distant from dynastic Egypto-Nubians?
3) And when are you going to stop running away from the inconvenient fact laid out in the OP that "negroid" in relation to dynastic Sudan and Egypt does not equal West African, and that West African "negroid" doesn't equal Central African "negroid" either, as documented in Tukuler's OP and elsewhere?
4) Instead of nitpicking mummies of 18th dynasty royals who, contrary to your self-defeating attempt to suggest otherwise, don't even match the true negro phenotype, post images of the pharaohs that were involved in DNA Tribes' analysis and demonstrate how they match the West African "negro" phenotype you claim they had:
1) So again, where is your evidence that Mesolithic Nubians and modern West Africans have an especially close relationship, not shared with other African samples?
You ignore the implications of the findings below all you want!
"In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that Pleistocene Nubians (in particular those of Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from recent Nubians for dental discreet traits yet shared great phenetic affinity with recent West African populations." -- T.W. Holiday 2013 ("Population Affinities of the Jebel Sahaba Skeletal Sample")
quote: 2) And how exactly does it help your case that AE were "true negroids [sic]" (lol!), when your own citation says that Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans are distant from dynastic Egypto-Nubians?
...What quote are you talking about?
quote: 3) And when are you going to stop running away from the inconvenient fact laid out in the OP that "negroid" in relation to dynastic Sudan and Egypt does not equal West African, and that West African "negroid" doesn't equal Central African "negroid" either, as documented in Tukuler's OP and elsewhere?
The term "negroid" when arguing with you suddenly doesn't mean the tradition Niger-Congo, M2, Sickle Cell carrying, populations whom Western scholars deemed "true Negroid".
Flat face East African type>>>"Caucasoid"
Mesolithic Nubian skull
A Nubian skull (Kerma)
Nutter (1958) noted affinities between the Badarian and Naqada samples, a feature that Strouhal (1971) attributed to their skulls possessing “Negroid” traits. Keita (1992), using craniometrics, discovered that the Badarian series is distinctly different from the later Egyptian series, a conclusion that is mostly confirmed here. In the current analysis, the Badari sample more closely clusters with the Naqada sample and the Kerma sample. However, it also groups with the later pooled sample from Dynasties XVIII–XXV. -- Godde K. (2009) An Examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development? Homo. 2009;60(5):389-404.
The Pre-Dynatic Egyptians were found to be Negroid...and had closest affinities to the Negroid Nubians. This Negroid affinity suddenly ceases around the Late period, as this study states that Late Dynastic Egyptians were a different group of Africans than the Pre-Dynastic and even those of the 18th Dynasty (New Kingdom).
It somehow means something else...anything else...why because you are double agent sent here to obfuscate our history and identity as a proud people. You are trying to make us feel embarrassed about our distinct identity hence why you and the double agents on this board have for decades obscured our distinct identity as a people under the guise of "Africanity" (the we are all one bullshit). Take that **** on...bitch!
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quote: Originally posted by Akachi: You ignore the implications of findings below all you want!
There are only two dental clusters in Africa, SSA and North African. Prove that falling in the SSA cluster and being older necessarily means you're an ancestor of other groups in that cluster.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: ...What quote are you talking about?
I'm talking about your own quote, four eyes! Lol.
noted that Pleistocene Nubians (in particular those of Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from recent Nubians --Akachi
Dynastic Nubians were different from your imaginary "true negroid" cluster IN YOUR OWN QUOTE, and there is nothing you can do at this point to save face.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: The term "negroid" when arguing with you suddenly doesn't mean the tradition Niger-Congo, M2, Sickle Cell carrying, populations whom Western scholars deemed "true Negroid".
Of course it doesn't. Skulls with specifically West African affinities have been found in Iron Age Senegal and in the Sahara. They are different from skeletal designated as "negroid" elsewhere. Your inability to refute that is evident in the fact that you're still running away from properly addressing the OP.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: It somehow means something else...
Prove that this skull conforms to the stereotypical ideal. Its nasal width is 1/2th of it's nasal length, it has an occipital bun, it has no nasal guttering, it has a prominent nasal bone, it has round eye sockets and a narrow or medium width face, it has a normal inter-orbital width. Demonstrate with literary sources that this set of traits conforms to the True Negro ideal. In the meantime I'll be waiting here to watch how you'll fail completely.
Nilotes represented the so called "European" element found in ancient Egypt.
whata you kiddin me ??? The only thing they have in common is a narrow head and a frown
.
Yeah that was the point! Do I have to provide the an actual picture of that Egyptian individuals living descendant to illustrate my point?
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet:There are only two dental clusters in Africa, SSA and North African. Prove that falling in the SSA cluster and being older necessarily means you're an ancestor of other groups in that cluster.
Ok this point that you're making in relation to the quote that I'm citing for one of my claims is moot. The study doesn't just blanketly say "Sub Saharan" African it states SPECIFICALLY modern "West Africans", not the hodgepodge of Sub Saharan Africans that are shown in the dendrogram presented by you:
"In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that Pleistocene Nubians (in particular those of Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from recent Nubians for dental discreet traits yet shared great phenetic affinity with recent West African populations. " -- T.W. Holiday 2013 ("Population Affinities of the Jebel Sahaba Skeletal Sample").
"recent West African"...not the "Pygmies, Khoikhoi, and San! Who tf are you trying to play lol!
quote: I'm talking about your own quote, four eyes! Lol...Dynastic Nubians were different from your "true negroid" cluster, and there is nothing you can do about it.
My quote states that modern people in Sudan today ("recent Nubians") are distinct from the Mesolithic Nubians. It then states conversely that modern people in West Africa ("recent West Africans") were virtually identical to the Mesolithic Nubians.
Who are trying to run game on...You fuckin double agent!
quote:Of course it doesn't. Skulls with specifically West African affinities have been found in Iron Age Senegal and in the Sahara. They are different from skeletal designated as "negroid" elsewhere.
You're not making any sense, and you are trying your damnedest to ignore the implications of the 2013 Holiday study which notes that those "iron aged Senegalese" (hence "recent West Africans) are virtually identical to the "negroid" Mesolithic Nubians.
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quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Yeah that was the point! Do I have to provide the an actual picture of that Egyptian individuals living descendant to illustrate my point?
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: ]Yeah that was the point! Do I have to provide the an actual picture of that Egyptian individuals living descendant to illustrate my point?
yes [/QB]
gross gratuitous profanity removed
[ 11. September 2014, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Modman Ardo ]
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next what's your position on straight hair being indigenous to Africa generally and also specifically to ancient Egypt and Nubia?
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quote: Originally posted by Akachi: Ok this point that you're making in relation to the quote that I'm citing for one of my claims is moot.
Completely irrelevant. The genetic distance between the 140-100kya Qafzeh&Skull sample to SSA is also much closer than most SSA are dentally and non- metrically to each other. According to your deprived line of reasoning, this means that 140kya OOA remains are closer to certain modern SSA than SSA are amongst each other. And what are we to make of the non-metric relationship of dynastic Egypto- Nubians and Europeans. According to your perverted line of reasoning, dynastic Egypto-Nubians are Europeans because of their low dental distances. Are they, in your view?
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: My quote states that modern people in Sudan today
Contrary to you've I've actually read the said reports. There are no modern day Sudanese samples in Irish' dataset that I know of. But that is of course where you come in to enlighten me of their inclusion. I'm waiting. Post the list of the samples that were involved in the respective articles. No stalling, right away please.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: You're not making any damn sense!
Say it to the academics. Are they wrong for making a distinction between West African specific affinities and general "negroid" affinities not specific to West Africa? Prove it.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: It somehow means something else...
Prove that this skull conforms to the stereotypical ideal. Its nasal width is 1/2th of it's nasal length, it has an occipital bun, it has no nasal guttering, it has a prominent nasal bone, it has round eye sockets and a narrow or medium width face, it has a normal inter-orbital width. Demonstrate with literary sources that this set of traits conforms to the True Negro ideal. In the meantime I'll be waiting here to watch how you'll fail completely.
I'm waiting.
quote:[QUOTE]Originally posted by Akachi: Tut Yuya Nefertari Punudjem Thutmosis I King Thutmosis II King Thutmosis III
The below is a good approximation of the True Negro phenotype. Prove that any of the above pharaohs conform to it.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: And what are we to make of the non-metric relationship of dynastic Egypto- Nubians and Europeans.
Nothing...
You're so stupid....that would even entertain such bullshit as a "European" Nubia. My goodness the common sense factor is..GONE!
quote: Contrary to you've I've actually read the said reports. There are no modern day Sudanese samples in Irish' dataset that I know of.
I cited Holiday, NOT Irish.
Clearly you don't really have **** to say...let alone refute anything that I'm saying. Then again you are a double agent sent here to OBFUSCATE this information like the Egyptologist of the past. They do not want us "slaves" (still in this World today) to know where we really came from and thus our true power.
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: And what are we to make of the non-metric relationship of dynastic Egypto- Nubians and Europeans.
Nothing...
So then you've single handedly debunked your own claim that the specific low dental distance between West Africans and Mesolitic Nubians means anything in regards to ancestor descendant status.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi:
quote: Originally posted by Swenet: Contrary to you've I've actually read the said reports. There are no modern day Sudanese samples in Irish' dataset that I know of.
I cited Holiday, NOT Irish.
I know you did. What you apparently don't even know is that Holiday is summing up Irish' work. Yes, this is the retarded afroloony trash we're dealing with here. He doesn't even know how to read his own citation. Irish is clearly referenced in your citation, you low IQ misfit!
In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that Pleistocene Nubians (in particular those of Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from recent Nubians for dental discreet traits yet shared great phenetic affinity with recent West African populations. " -- T.W. Holiday 2013 --Akachi
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: My quote states that modern people in Sudan today
Contrary to you I've actually read the said reports. There are no modern day Sudanese samples in Irish' dataset that I know of. But that is of course where you come in to enlighten me of their inclusion. I'm waiting. Post the list of the samples that were involved in the respective articles. No stalling, right away please.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: You're not making any damn sense!
Say it to the academics. Are they wrong for making a distinction between West African specific affinities and general "negroid" affinities not specific to West Africa? Prove it.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: It somehow means something else...
Prove that this skull conforms to the stereotypical ideal. Its nasal width is 1/2th of it's nasal length, it has an occipital bun, it has no nasal guttering, it has a prominent nasal bone, it has round eye sockets and a narrow or medium width face, it has a normal inter-orbital width. Demonstrate with literary sources that this set of traits conforms to the True Negro ideal. In the meantime I'll be waiting here to watch how you'll fail completely.
I'm waiting.
quote:[QUOTE]Originally posted by Akachi: Tut Yuya Nefertari Punudjem Thutmosis I King Thutmosis II King Thutmosis III
The below is a good approximation of the True Negro phenotype. Prove that any of the above pharaohs conform to it.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: So then you've single handedly debunked your own claim that the specific low dental distance between West Africans and Mesolitic Nubians means anything.
Well for one the author did not just limit the affinity between Mesolithic Nubians and modern West Africans to dental traits, but stated that there was overall a virtually identical phenotype between the groups.
"In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that Pleistocene Nubians (in particular those of Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from recent Nubians for dental discreet traits yet shared "great phenetic affinity" with recent West African populations." -- T.W. Holiday 2013 ("Population Affinities of the Jebel Sahaba Skeletal Sample")
Now you being a deceptive double agent you will try to limit the phrase used "great phenetic affinity " to just dental traits in your fucked misinterpretation of this information. In reality the great phenetic similarities noted by Holiday were overall..
(West African type)
Mesolithic Nubian skeleton
Amenhotep III/Dynastic Egyptian pharaoh with a "Negroid" skull
Oh and earlier you requested a picture of the skull of pharaohs Amenhotep III. But only a mothafucka who lacks common sense (might have a "high IQ" though) would even question his race.
As Holliday contextualized Mesolithic Nubians and modern West Africans were virtually identical to one another. Can this be the reason why virtually every West African groups proclaims to have an origin in the East and they all point to the Nile Valley as their previous homeland? Which West Africans do we need to to consult for this the Akan, Ewe, Yoruba, Ga-Adangbe, the Bamileke who? Or did you not know this...dumbass. Do you really wanna see how deep the rabbit hole goes?
quote: I know you did. What you apparently don't even know is that Holiday is summing up Irish' work.
Yeah but it's Holiday's study, and he was just contextualizing previous work which is obviously in relation to his own. Therefore you even invoking your knowledge of Irish's "database" and your subsequent doubt that the distinction noted between modern Sudanese and mesolithic Nubians was therefore unwarranted.
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quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Well for one the author did not just limit the affinity between Mesolithic Nubians and modern West Africans to dental traits, but stated that their was overall a virtually identical phenotype between the groups.
...which you've just admitted, means nothing. lol. How deprived of neurones can one possibly be?
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Yeah but it's Holiday's study, and he was just contextualizing previous work
And just the fact that Holiday summarises Irish' work, justifies not looking into the original Irish article for the list of samples that Irish used? Are you really that phucking low IQ? Listen man, I don't care how you retrieve the list of samples used by Irish, but I'm going to need evidence that your claim that Holiday's statement does not refer to dynastic Nubians, but to modern day Nubians:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:
quote:originally posted by Swenet: I'm talking about your own quote, four eyes! Lol...Dynastic Nubians were different from your "true negroid" cluster, and there is nothing you can do about it.
My quote states that modern people in Sudan today ("recent Nubians") are distinct from the Mesolithic Nubians.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Well for one the author did not just limit the affinity between Mesolithic Nubians and modern West Africans to dental traits, but stated that their was overall a virtually identical phenotype between the groups.
...which you've just admitted, means nothing. lol. How deprived of neurones can one possibly be?
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Yeah but it's Holiday's study, and he was just contextualizing previous work
And that justifies not looking into the original article for the list of samples? Are you really that phucking low IQ? Listen man, I don't care how you retrieve the list of samples used by Irish, but I'm going to need evidence that your claim that Holiday's statement does not refer to dynastic Nubians, but to modern day Nubians:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:
quote:originally posted by Swenet: I'm talking about your own quote, four eyes! Lol...Dynastic Nubians were different from your "true negroid" cluster, and there is nothing you can do about it.
My quote states that modern people in Sudan today ("recent Nubians") are distinct from the Mesolithic Nubians.
^^ The boy ain't got **** to say! He resorts to typical cracker insults dealing with the perceived intelligence that a person has based on a skewed Nazi devised (literally) intelligence test. But anyway..
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posted
Running away, just like your butt buddy Amun Ra, huh? No matter. When you've mustered up half the balls your fellow lingerie wearers have, come see me.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: And what are we to make of the non-metric relationship of dynastic Egypto- Nubians and Europeans.
Nothing...
So then you've single handedly debunked your own claim that the specific low dental distance between West Africans and Mesolitic Nubians means anything in regards to ancestor descendant status.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi:
quote: Originally posted by Swenet: Contrary to you've I've actually read the said reports. There are no modern day Sudanese samples in Irish' dataset that I know of.
I cited Holiday, NOT Irish.
I know you did. What you apparently don't even know is that Holiday is summing up Irish' work. Yes, this is the retarded afroloony trash we're dealing with here. He doesn't even know how to read his own citation. Irish is clearly referenced in your citation, you low IQ misfit!
In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that Pleistocene Nubians (in particular those of Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from recent Nubians for dental discreet traits yet shared great phenetic affinity with recent West African populations. " -- T.W. Holiday 2013 --Akachi
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: My quote states that modern people in Sudan today
Contrary to you I've actually read the said reports. There are no modern day Sudanese samples in Irish' dataset that I know of. But that is of course where you come in to enlighten me of their inclusion. I'm waiting. Post the list of the samples that were involved in the respective articles. No stalling, right away please.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: You're not making any damn sense!
Say it to the academics. Are they wrong for making a distinction between West African specific affinities and general "negroid" affinities not specific to West Africa? Prove it.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: It somehow means something else...
Prove that this skull conforms to the stereotypical ideal. Its nasal width is 1/2th of it's nasal length, it has an occipital bun, it has no nasal guttering, it has a prominent nasal bone, it has round eye sockets and a narrow or medium width face, it has a normal inter-orbital width. Demonstrate with literary sources that this set of traits conforms to the True Negro ideal. In the meantime I'll be waiting here to watch how you'll fail completely.
I'm waiting.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Tut Yuya Nefertari Punudjem Thutmosis I King Thutmosis II King Thutmosis III
The below is a good approximation of the True Negro phenotype. Prove that any of the above pharaohs conform to it.
posted
^^ I mean...did you not just see that all that **** was debunked in my second post on this page, you blind bitch! Is this your idea of winning a debate? Getting your ass dog walked in every weak ass point that you present and then re-present the same summary of bullshit which was just called out for what it is? Take that **** on!
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet:The below is a good approximation of the True Negro phenotype. Prove that any of the above pharaohs conform to it.
What black person here needs anymore proof that this mothafucka here is a double agent! Just read this **** that Swenet says atop of this photo and try not to sound like salty ass old cracker...Wake up to the black people who have been mislead by these snakes!
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Running away, just like your butt buddy Amun Ra, huh? No matter. When you've mustered up half the balls your fellow lingerie wearers have, come see me.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: And what are we to make of the non-metric relationship of dynastic Egypto- Nubians and Europeans.
Nothing...
So then you've single handedly debunked your own claim that the specific low dental distance between West Africans and Mesolitic Nubians means anything in regards to ancestor descendant status.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi:
quote: Originally posted by Swenet: Contrary to you've I've actually read the said reports. There are no modern day Sudanese samples in Irish' dataset that I know of.
I cited Holiday, NOT Irish.
I know you did. What you apparently don't even know is that Holiday is summing up Irish' work. Yes, this is the retarded afroloony trash we're dealing with here. He doesn't even know how to read his own citation. Irish is clearly referenced in your citation, you low IQ misfit!
In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that Pleistocene Nubians (in particular those of Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from recent Nubians for dental discreet traits yet shared great phenetic affinity with recent West African populations. " -- T.W. Holiday 2013 --Akachi
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: My quote states that modern people in Sudan today
Contrary to you I've actually read the said reports. There are no modern day Sudanese samples in Irish' dataset that I know of. But that is of course where you come in to enlighten me of their inclusion. I'm waiting. Post the list of the samples that were involved in the respective articles. No stalling, right away please.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: You're not making any damn sense!
Say it to the academics. Are they wrong for making a distinction between West African specific affinities and general "negroid" affinities not specific to West Africa? Prove it.
quote: Originally posted by Akachi: It somehow means something else...
Prove that this skull conforms to the stereotypical ideal. Its nasal width is 1/2th of it's nasal length, it has an occipital bun, it has no nasal guttering, it has a prominent nasal bone, it has round eye sockets and a narrow or medium width face, it has a normal inter-orbital width. Demonstrate with literary sources that this set of traits conforms to the True Negro ideal. In the meantime I'll be waiting here to watch how you'll fail completely.
I'm waiting.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Tut Yuya Nefertari Punudjem Thutmosis I King Thutmosis II King Thutmosis III
The below is a good approximation of the True Negro phenotype. Prove that any of the above pharaohs conform to it.
Wait Hold tf on! YOU'RE A SNEAKY BASTARD! You just edited your entire fucking post (rather than just starting a new one) after I called it out (for the bullshit that it was) in the post above for the completely rehashed line of questioning that it was into a reply to some of my points..
But then again you are a fucking double agent so any tactics that you use in a debate shouldn't be surprising. You still ain't saying not a damn thing new or that has not already dealt with by myself in previous post, but still that's pathetic!
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
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posted
So now you're not only just extremely retarded, you also regularly experience psychotic bouts that cause you to lose touch with reality:
In your own words:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: The Pleistocene Nubians from Jebel Sahaba (who are directly ancestral to Tasian and Badarians/Pre-Dynastic Egyptians) were according to three studies cited virtually identical to West Africans. Hence they belonged to the so called "true negroid" group of Africans whose distinct identity as a people you double agents are trying obscure
Then, the second he's asked to clarify his claim without moving the goalpost, he feels some sort of sick, psychotic indignation:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The below is a good approximation of the True Negro phenotype. Prove that any of the above pharaohs conform to it.
What black person here needs anymore proof that this mothafucka here is a double agent! Just read this **** and try not to sound like salty ass old cracker...Wake up to the black people who have been mislead by these snakes!
This mentally disturbed jackass is probably high off bathsalts as we speak.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: So now you're not only just extremely retarded, you also regularly experience psychotic bouts that cause you to lose touch with reality:
In your own words:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: The Pleistocene Nubians from Jebel Sahaba (who are directly ancestral to Tasian and Badarians/Pre-Dynastic Egyptians) were according to three studies cited virtually identical to West Africans. Hence they belonged to the so called "true negroid" group of Africans whose distinct identity as a people you double agents are trying obscure
Then, the second he's asked to clarify his claim, he feels some sort of sick, psychotic indignation
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The below is a good approximation of the True Negro phenotype. Prove that any of the above pharaohs conform to it.
What black person here needs anymore proof that this mothafucka here is a double agent! Just read this **** and try not to sound like salty ass old cracker...Wake up to the black people who have been mislead by these snakes!
This mentally disturbed jackass is probably high off bathsalts as we speak.
Looking for substance....negative! You're a post editing back tracker (Completely changing your post after my reply, SO pathetic), so needless to say anyone who has to resort to that **** doesn't really have an argument (or "counter") and thus is a waste of fucking time.
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
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posted
So now you're not only just extremely retarded, you also regularly experience psychotic bouts that cause you to lose touch with reality:
In your own words:
The term "negroid" when arguing with you suddenly doesn't mean the tradition Niger-Congo, M2, Sickle Cell carrying, populations whom Western scholars deemed "true Negroid". --Akachi
The Pleistocene Nubians from Jebel Sahaba (who are directly ancestral to Tasian and Badarians/Pre-Dynastic Egyptians) were according to three studies cited virtually identical to West Africans. Hence they belonged to the so called "true negroid" group of Africans whose distinct identity as a people you double agents are trying obscure --Akachi
Confirmation that those people in the Sudan today are not the same group of Africans (primarily admixed Horners descendants and Nilotes) that inhabited ancient Nubia.It then goes on to state that the ancient Nubians were also identical to those "true negroid" individuals of West Africa. The artwork from ancient Nubia (though at a later date) confirms that this was our group of Africans who were the dominant group of Africans along the Nubia/Egypt. --Akachi
Then, the second he's asked to clarify his claim without moving the goalpost, he feels some sort of sick, psychotic indignation:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The below is a good approximation of the True Negro phenotype. Prove that any of the above pharaohs conform to it.
What black person here needs anymore proof that this mothafucka here is a double agent! Just read this **** and try not to sound like salty ass old cracker...Wake up to the black people who have been mislead by these snakes!
This mentally disturbed jackass is probably high off bath salts as we speak.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Ok well post the person or people whom you think Yuya really belonged to? I mean his DNA(linking closest him to Central and Southern Africans) and the affinities and phenotypes of virtually everyone else in his family aren't enough for right?
Anyway post the picture of the people whom you think that Yuya most likely belonged please.
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
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quote:Looking for substance....negative! You're a post editing back tracker (Completely changing your post after my reply, SO pathetic)
Back tracking IN WHAT. In response to the overweight of your persuasive arguments? In response to what? As everyone can see, you got your ass handed to you. You're even running away from Lioness' posts. You're running away from my posts. Which of your claims have you been able to substantiate? Even Amun Ra distances himself publicly from your psychotic claims.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: So now you're not only just extremely retarded, you also regularly experience psychotic bouts that cause you to lose touch with reality:
In your own words:
The term "negroid" when arguing with you suddenly doesn't mean the tradition Niger-Congo, M2, Sickle Cell carrying, populations whom Western scholars deemed "true Negroid". --Akachi
The Pleistocene Nubians from Jebel Sahaba (who are directly ancestral to Tasian and Badarians/Pre-Dynastic Egyptians) were according to three studies cited virtually identical to West Africans. Hence they belonged to the so called "true negroid" group of Africans whose distinct identity as a people you double agents are trying obscure --Akachi
Confirmation that those people in the Sudan today are not the same group of Africans (primarily admixed Horners descendants and Nilotes) that inhabited ancient Nubia.It then goes on to state that the ancient Nubians were also identical to those "true negroid" individuals of West Africa. The artwork from ancient Nubia (though at a later date) confirms that this was our group of Africans who were the dominant group of Africans along the Nubia/Egypt. --Akachi
Then, the second he's asked to clarify his claim without moving the goalpost, he feels some sort of sick, psychotic indignation:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The below is a good approximation of the True Negro phenotype. Prove that any of the above pharaohs conform to it.
What black person here needs anymore proof that this mothafucka here is a double agent! Just read this **** and try not to sound like salty ass old cracker...Wake up to the black people who have been mislead by these snakes!
This mentally disturbed jackass is probably high off bath salts as we speak.
You're pathetic and explained I've why you aren't worth anybody's time you fucking double agent. Hell you ain't saying **** in this post anyway:
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posted
Does your non-reply mean that the lingerie your boyfriend asked you to wear is cutting off the blood supply to your balls, and that you're scared sh!tless to address the fact that your psychotic outburst went on public record?
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: As everyone can see, you got your ass handed to you. You're even running away from Lioness' posts. You're running away from my posts. Which of your claims have you been able to substantiate? Even Amun Ra distances himself publicly from your psychotic claims. [/QB]
Common sense will prevail among MY people!
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Common sense will prevail among MY people!
Yeah, among your people in the looney bin, all right.
Let's dissect and obliterate Akachi's claims one by one. He can run away all he wants. He doesn't need to be physically present to debunk his loony claims.
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Ok well post the person or people whom you think Yuya really belonged to? I mean his DNA(linking closest him to Central and Southern Africans) and the affinities and phenotypes of virtually everyone else in his family aren't enough for right?
Anyway post the picture of the people whom you think that Yuya most likely belonged please.
well he had a huge nose, stringy hair no prognothsis, big ears, and a beard
I'm having trouble finding an West African match, help me out here
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quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Common sense will prevail among MY people!
Yeah, among your people in the looney bin, all right.
Let's dissect and obliterate Akachi's claims one by one. He can run away all he wants. He doesn't need to be physically present to debunk his loony bin.
"Loony bin"....
you make no attempts to hide the fact that you're an uncover double agent square ass cracker do you? Back to the caves you go cracker.
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Mike Tyson's super wide head and lack of neck is not typical of most Africans or African Americans
The stone head to his left was purchased in a shop by Flinders Petrie. He thought it was Narmer but to the best of my knowledge never wrote about why he thought it was Narmer
^^^ here is how the head was originally found Cheikh Anta Diop was arrested in London after having poured paint thinner over it in 1950
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quote:Originally posted by Akachi: My quote states that modern people in Sudan today ("recent Nubians") are distinct from the Mesolithic Nubians.
False. The full citation (which you deliberately manipulated) makes it clear that Holliday compares Irish’ dynastic era Nubians and Mesolithic Nubians, not recent, modern day Nubians and Mesolithic Nubians:
In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that late Pleistocene Nubians (and in particular the Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from more recent Nubians for dental discrete traits, yet shared great phenetic affinity with recent West African populations. For example, Irish and Turner (1990) found that the mean measure of divergence, or MMD, between Pleistocene Nubians and Christian period Nubians was 0.379, whereas the MMD between Pleistocene Nubians and recent West Africans was only 0.04. Counter to Anderson’s (1968) argument, then, Irish and Turner (1990) argued for some degree of genetic discontinuity between Pleistocene and Holocene Nubians, with the former being more similar to modern-day West Africans, whereas the latter were more similar to recent North Africans and Europeans. --Holliday 2013
and
Irish (2000, 2005) found that late Pleistocene Nubians (and especially the Jebel Sahaba sample) are wholly dissimilar to Iberomaurusian populations from the Maghreb. He pointed out that despite the typological similarities in their cultural traditions (Iberomaurusian vs. Qadan), that dentally the two populations are easily distinguished. In fact, late Pleistocene Nubians (Jebel Sahaba) were the extreme outlier in a comparison of Pleistocene and Holocene North African groups (Irish, 2000, 2005). --Holliday 2013
and
As with the previous studies, the current findings suggest that the morphology of Jebel Sahaba is distinct from more recent Egyptian and Nubian samples, suggestive of a genetic discontinuity in the Nile Valley. One difference between the current study and these previous studies is that both Irish (2000, 2005) and Raxter (2011) found key morphological differences between the Jebel Sahaba and Kerma samples—differences that led Irish (2005) to argue for a genetic discontinuity between the late Pleistocene Nubians (as represented by Jebel Sahaba), the ‘Kerma Classique’ period skeletons (ca. 1750–1500 BC), and later Nubian samples. Specifically, he suspected that population replacement or genetic swamping occurred in Nubia sometime in the early Holocene (Irish, 2005). --Holliday 2013
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: You're not making any sense, and you are trying your damnedest to ignore the implications of the 2013 Holiday study which notes that those "iron aged Senegalese" (hence "recent West Africans) are virtually identical to the "negroid" Mesolithic Nubians.
This is another blatant lie and manipulation of Holliday. There is not a single mention of ‘Senegalese’ or ‘iron age’ in Holliday 2013.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Well for one the author did not just limit the affinity between Mesolithic Nubians and modern West Africans to dental traits, but stated that there was overall a virtually identical phenotype between the groups.
This is also a blatant lie. There is no such claim in Holliday 2013. Holliday cites cranio- metric articles which didn’t conclude an especially close link between West Africans and Jebel Sahabans:
A more important comparison was made between Jebel Sahaba and the remains from the nearby (and presumably contemporary) ‘Colorado’ Wadi Halfa remains. The sample was also compared with somewhat more recent (Iberomaurusian) skeletons from Northwest Africa (the Maghreb), including, for example, the well-known Afalou-Bou-Rhummel and Taforalt (Grotte des Pigeons) specimens (Balout, 1955a), as well as to historic period Egyptian and Sudanese Nubians. He also compared the sample with late Pleistocene skeletons from East and Southern Africa. Anderson concluded that the Jebel Sahaba skeletons were, as a group, quite homogeneous and that morphologically they were most similar to their presumed contemporaries from across the river at Wadi Halfa. Yet he also noted that they shared certain features with the Cro- Magnons, particularly with regard to cranial superstructures. However, he found that features more prone to show environmental effects (whether phenotypically plastic or otherwise) separated the tropical Jebel Sahaba skeletons from their penecontemporaries at higher latitudes. He could not find any evidence of morphological/genetic links between Jebel Sahaba and the late Pleistocene remains from East and Southern Africa (which were admittedly poorly preserved), but he did note a strong similarity between the sample and the Maghreb Mesolithic ‘Mechtoid’ material. --Holliday 2013
^You need to stop lying, just like Amun Ra needs to stop lying.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Are you dumb? That is because they (Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans) were the same people
Patently false. The Mesolithic Nubian population and later derivative Sudanese groups don’t have a special ancestral link to West Africans beyond the sharing of a general SSA dental pattern:
The trait expressions which are most frequently cited as typically biologically sub-Saharan have mainly been identified in studies of the remains of biologically West African groups and their American descendants. It was therefore not surprising that an undoubtedly fully biologically sub-Saharan sample from another part of the African continent, i.e. the Wadi Howar, was characterised by different frequencies of certain trait expressions --Becker 2011
It has been repeatedly highlighted that the currently known Late Pleistocene Nubians were biologically sub-Saharan (see I.D.1.a.3.c., V.B.3.a. and above). As could therefore be expected, the Jebel Sahaba/Tushka mean individual was assigned to the Southern Sudanese comparative sample (see IV.D.). That the A-Group mean individual was classified as a member of the Somali comparative sample could be anticipated as well (see IV.D.). --Becker 2011
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Can this be the reason why virtually every West African groups proclaims to have an origin in the East and they all point to the Nile Valley as their previous homeland? Which West Africans do we need to to consult for this the Akan, Ewe, Yoruba, Ga-Adangbe, the Bamileke who? Or did you not know this...dumbass.
You'd have to consult the bio-anthropological literature, because apparently it thinks you're full of sh!t! The African phenotyped populations that moved to West Africa in time frames that are relevant to the migration of M2 and Niger Congo, do not have a West Africa specific phenotype. Instead, they cluster with their source populations in the Sudan:
Still, it is noteworthy that the modern comparative specimens to whom the Malian Sahara mean individual was most similar were members of the Southern Sudan sample, not the West African Mandinka sample. --Becker 2011
^There goes your fairytale that West African "negroid" equals and is a recent import from East African "negroid" populations.
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The full citation (which you deliberately manipulated) makes it clear that Holliday compares Irish’ dynastic era Nubians and Mesolithic Nubians, not recent, modern day Nubians and Mesolithic Nubians
Where the Hell does it say anything about "Dynastic" Nubians in any of this **** that you're claiming? I'll wait show me:
" In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that late Pleistocene Nubians (and in particular the Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from more recent Nubians for dental discrete traits, yet shared great phenetic affinity with recent West African populations. For example, Irish and Turner (1990) found that the mean measure of divergence, or MMD, between Pleistocene Nubians and Christian period Nubians was 0.379, whereas the MMD between Pleistocene Nubians and recent West Africans was only 0.04. Counter to Anderson’s (1968) argument, then, Irish and Turner (1990) argued for some degree of genetic discontinuity between Pleistocene and Holocene Nubians, with the former being more similar to modern-day West Africans, whereas the latter were more similar to recent North Africans and Europeans. " --Holliday 2013
Please highlight that **** for me!
Anyways how does this refute anything that I've said? You are so desperate to undermine this finding that finds distinction between modern Sudanese people and Pleistocene Nubians...the **** won't work!
quote: argued for some degree of genetic discontinuity between Pleistocene and Holocene Nubians, with the former being more similar to modern-day West Africans, whereas the latter were more similar to recent North Africans and Europeans. --Holliday 2013
Now as far as affinities with "North African and Europeans" during the Holocene more details are clearly needed, because the Holocene extends from the 11,700 B.C. to the present. None the less the distinction was made by Holliday of modern (who fall within this present Holocene period) Sudanese/Nubians. Pleistocene Nubians expanded northward from Sudan into Egypt (around around 12,000 B.C., which is when the Sphinx is dated back to) and are directly ancestral to Tasnians and Badarians who were also "Negroid".
Now common sense says that the Nubians have never looked like "Europeans". This is when you apply "African diversity" into the common sense equation.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: You're not making any sense, and you are trying your damnedest to ignore the implications of the 2013 Holiday study which notes that those "iron aged Senegalese" (hence "recent West Africans) are virtually identical to the "negroid" Mesolithic Nubians.
This is another blatant lie and manipulation of Howells. There is not a single mention of ‘Senegalese’ or ‘iron age’ in Holliday 2013.
Context cracker context! Take note that this is the bullshit that he must resort to.
quote:This is also a blatant lie. There is no suchclaim in Holliday 2013. Holliday cites cranio- metric articles which didn’t conclude an especially close link between West Africans and Jebel Sahabans:
OK Whose lying and for what reason? The citation that you provided further clarifies Holliday's assertion of a relationship between Pleistocene Nubians and West Africans.
"argued for some degree of genetic discontinuity between Pleistocene and Holocene Nubians,with the former being more similar to modern-day West Africans, whereas the latter were more similar to recent North Africans and Europeans."
Holliday is the one who asserts and reasserts this frequently noted close "phenetic" relationship between the "Negroid" Pleistocene Nubians modern West African "Negroid" populations.
That being said you just outright rejecting this assertion by Holliday for unwarranted personal reasons. I don't have time for that ****.
quote: "A more important comparison was made between Jebel Sahaba and the remains from the nearby (and presumably contemporary) ‘Colorado’ Wadi Halfa remains. The sample was also compared with somewhat more recent (Iberomaurusian) skeletons from Northwest Africa (the Maghreb), including, for example, the well-known Afalou-Bou-Rhummel and Taforalt (Grotte des Pigeons) specimens (Balout, 1955a), as well as to historic period Egyptian and Sudanese Nubians. He also compared the sample with late Pleistocene skeletons from East and Southern Africa. Anderson concluded that the Jebel Sahaba skeletons were, as a group, quite homogeneous and that morphologically they were most similar to their presumed contemporaries from across the river at Wadi Halfa."
Ok nice citation, but how does this refute anything that I've argued? It actually further validates it dumbass! (also see "Vermeersch" study slightly below for specifics on Waldi Halfa rather than generalized Northeastern Africa)
They (ancient Northeast Africans of the Nile Valley and the fertile crescent) were closest in affinity to the Niger-Congo speakers.
Pick 3!
quote: Yet he also noted that they shared certain features with the Cro- Magnons, particularly with regard to cranial superstructures. However, he found that features more prone to show environmental effects (whether phenotypically plastic or otherwise) separated the tropical Jebel Sahaba skeletons from their penecontemporaries at higher latitudes.
You bolded the affinity towards Cro-Magnon but you ignored the statement directly behind which completely undermined those findings. Damn you are weak!
quote: He could not find any evidence of morphological/genetic links between Jebel Sahaba and the late Pleistocene remains from East and Southern Africa (which were admittedly poorly preserved), but he did note a strong similarity between the sample and the Maghreb Mesolithic ‘Mechtoid’ material.
Are you so stupid that you don't understand that every weak point that you are trying to emphasis is pissed on by the statement directly behind it?
Also do you know who "NEOlithic" Maghreb Africans were found to be Negroid as well. Wouldn't you suspect continuity in that region.
"In the sum, the results obtained further strengthen the results from previous analyses. The affinities between Nazlet Khater, MSA, and Khoisan and Khoisan related groups re-emerges.In addition it is possible to detect a separation between North African and sub-saharan populations, with the Neolithic Saharan population from Hasi el Abiod and the Egyptian Badarian group being closely affiliated with modern Negroid groups. Similarly, the Epipaleolithic populations from Site 117 and Wadi Halfa are also affiliated with sub-Saharan LSA, Iron Age and modern Negroid groups rather than with contemporaneous North African populations such as Taforalt and the Ibero-maurusian." ---Pierre M. Vermeersch in Palaeolithic quarrying sites in Upper and Middle Egypt
So yeah...it is further confirmation of the "Negroid" affinities of Waldi Halfa remains whom YOU cite to have been closest the Pleistocene Nubians.
quote: Patently false. The Mesolithic Nubian population and later derivative Sudanese groups don’t have a special ancestral link to West Africans beyond the sharing of a general SSA dental pattern:
You are so fucking deceptive! The "later derivative Sudanese group" that the study that you are citing is comparing to West Africans doesn't have a damn thing to do with anything that we're talking about! What do Wadi Howar (5th to 2nd millennium BCE) inhabitants (Libyan-Sudanese border) have to do with Pleistocene Nubians along the Nile Valley? You're just talking out of your ass trying to play "gotcha". You're weak!
The affinities of these people around the Libyan-Sudanese border were found to be non-existent (in the context of this study and subject) with the Pleistocene Nubians, which in turn explains why their were distinctions between Wadi Howar and West Africans/African Americans...duh:
quote: When the Wadi Howar remains were positioned in the context of the selected prehistoric (Jebel Sahaba /Tushka, A-Group, Malian Sahara) and modern comparative samples (Southern Sudan, Chad, Mandinka, Somalis, Haya) in this fashion three main findings emerged. Firstly, the series as a whole displayed very strong affinities with the prehistoric sample from the Malian Sahara (Hassi el Abiod, Kobadi, Erg Ine Sakane, etc.) and the modern material from Southern Sudan and, to a lesser extent, Chad. Secondly, the pre-Leiterband and the Leiterband sub-sample were closer to the prehistoric Malian as well as the modern Southern Sudanese material than they were to each other.
They were instead found to be Nilotes who once spread across the ancient Sahara (noted by their pottery).
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Mike Tyson's super wide head and lack of neck is not typical of most Africans or African Americans
The stone head to his left was purchased in a shop by Flinders Petrie. He thought it was Narmer but to the best of my knowledge never wrote about why he thought it was Narmer
^^^ here is how the head was originally found Cheikh Anta Diop was arrested in London after having poured paint thinner over it in 1950
Lying bitch Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Akachi: ^^Speak up and be specific!
quote: Morphological variation of the skeletal remains of ancient Nubia has been traditionally explained as a product of multiple migrations into the Nile Valley.
In contrast, various researchers have noted a continuity in craniofacial variation from Mesolithic through Neolithic times.
This apparent continuity could be explained by in situ cultural evolution producing shifts in selective pressures which may act on teeth, the facial complex, and the cranial vault.
A series of 13 Mesolithic skulls from Wadi Halfa, Sudan, are compared to Nubian Neolithic remains by means of extended canonical analysis.
Results support recent research which suggests consistent trends of facial reduction and cranial vault expansion from Mesolithic through Neolithic times.
--Meredith F. Small* et al. The nubian mesolithic: A consideration of the Wadi Halfa remains
Nutter (1958) noted affinities between the Badarian and Naqada samples, a feature that Strouhal (1971) attributed to their skulls possessing “Negroid” traits. Keita (1992), using craniometrics, discovered that the Badarian series is distinctly different from the later Egyptian series, a conclusion that is mostly confirmed here. In the current analysis, the Badari sample more closely clusters with the Naqada sample and the Kerma sample. However, it also groups with the later pooled sample from Dynasties XVIII–XXV. -- Godde K. (2009) An Examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development? Homo. 2009;60(5):389-404.
The Pre-Dynatic Egyptians were found to be Negroid...and had closest affinities to the Negroid Nubians. This Negroid affinity suddenly ceases around the Late period, as this study states that Late Dynastic Egyptians were a different group of Africans than the Pre-Dynastic and even those of the 18th Dynasty (New Kingdom).
It somehow means something else...anything else...why because you are double agent sent here to obfuscate our history and identity as a proud people. You are trying to make us feel embarrassed about our distinct identity hence why you and the double agents on this board have for decades obscured our distinct identity as a people under the guise of "Africanity" (the we are all one bullshit). Take that **** on...bitch!
quote:"...Wiercinski (1965) noted an increase in the "African" (Negroid) element in crania recovered from the early dynastic tombs of Abydos as compared to the previous period. His taxonomy, like others, seems to have a narrow conception the of the range of real "African" variability. In general, this restricted view presents all tropical Africans with narrow noses and faces as being related to or descended from an external, ultimately non-African peoples. However, narrow-faced, narrow-nosed populations have long been resident in Saharo-tropical Africa (Gabel 1966; Hiernaux 1975; Rightmire 1975; Schepartz 1987) and their origin need not be sought elsewhere. These traits are also indigenous. The variability in tropical Africa is expectedly naturally high. Given their longstanding presence, narrow noses and faces cannot be deemed "non-African"..."
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Where the Hell does it say anything about "Dynastic" Nubians in any of this **** that you're claiming?
^This disingenuous troll sees his claim of dental continuity between Mesolithic and holocene Nubians go down the drain and the best thing he can come up with hijacking the discussion with distractions such as whether or not Holliday explicitly mentioned the word "dynastic". Lol. Talk about a desperate attempt at saving face! What does "between Pleistocene and Holocene Nubians" mean, if not that it necessarily includes dynastic Nubians, troll? Where does it even remotely say "modern day Nubians", you lying jackass?
Anderson’s (1968) argument, then, Irish and Turner (1990) argued for some degree of genetic discontinuity between Pleistocene and Holocene Nubians --Holliday
Next:
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Now as far as affinities with "North African and Europeans" during the Holocene more details are clearly needed, because the Holocene extends from the 11,700 B.C. to the present. None the less the distinction was made by Holliday of modern (who fall within this present Holocene period) Sudanese/Nubians.
^Now his misfiring synapses construe Holliday's statement: "between Pleistocene and holocene Nubians" as potentially exclusive of, well, Nubians tnat lived during the early or mid holocene, lol. I recommend a comprehensive reading course for malnourished brains.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Context cracker context! Take note that this is the bullshit that he must resort to.
Context? You said that Jebel Sahabans had both West African-specific and Iron Age Senegalese specific-affinities. None of which is borne out of Irish' work or Holliday's work. He noted a dental relationship with West Africans and Jebel Sahabans and that's about it. Holliday never draws the ancestor descendant relationship conclusion your lying ass tacitly brings in association with his work.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Ok nice citation, but how does this refute anything that I've argued?
It refutes everything you've argued. West African- specific phenotypes don't have dual relationships with European Upper Palaeolithic or Ibero-Maurusian remains. If Mesolithic Nubians have a demonstrable link to either two, however faint or inconsistent, this is a discrepancy that necessarily phucks your whole Mesolithic Nubian=West Africa-specific phenotype ideology up.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:. They (ancient Northeast Africans of the Nile Valley and the fertile crescent) were closest in affinity to the Niger-Congo speakers.
Stop lying. Your excerpt only says Niger Congo have a phenotype that is linked to that of Egyptians-- something I've never denied. The excerpt never says the two phenotypes are mutually inclusive, let alone that either is a descendant of the other.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: You bolded the affinity towards Cro-Magnon but you ignored the statement directly behind which completely undermined those findings.
How does the observation in question undermine those findings? Watch as total silence will ensue from your end because you simply do not know what the phuck you're talking about, and you will not be able to back your claim up, which we will see in your next reply.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Are you so stupid that you don't understand that every weak point that you are trying to emphasis is pissed on by the statement directly behind it?
Really? How. Lay out what the remains are, where they're from, and the specifics of how the state of preservation of the remains being referred to here, would invalidate the segment I bolded out.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: So yeah...it is further confirmation of the "Negroid" affinities of Waldi Halfa remains whom YOU cite to have been closest the Pleistocene Nubians.
This proves that you're a complete pinhead. You don't even understand your own citations--something I've demonstrated several times by now. You don't even know that the 117 site in your citation IS Jebel Sahaba, do you? Why do speak of Jebel Sahaba as somehow not included in your citation? Dumb ass troll. And again, being the retarded dumbass that you are, you cite general negroid affinities as evidence that Mesolithic Nubians had a West African ancestor/descendant link, which is a total non-sequitur. Fallacies on top of fallacies on top of fallacies.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: You are so fucking deceptive! The "later derivative Sudanese group" that the study that you are citing is comparing to West Africans doesn't have a damn thing to do with anything that we're talking about! What do Wadi Howar (5th to 2nd millennium BCE) inhabitants (Libyan-Sudanese border) have to do with Pleistocene Nubians along the Nile Valley?
You mean other than the fact that all the skeletal remains I mentioned classify as Jebel Sahaba-like populations? Again, I'm noting the fact that you have no phuchin' idea what you're talking about. You're just making it all up as you're going along.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: You are so fucking deceptive! The "later derivative Sudanese group" that the study that you are citing is comparing to West Africans doesn't have a damn thing to do with anything that we're talking about!
Lol. Me saying that none of the migrations that went towards West Africa from the Sudan region had the forest-adapted specific phenotype, has nothing to do with the subject? Really? SMH.
Patently false. The Mesolithic Nubian population and later derivative Sudanese groups don’t have a special ancestral link to West Africans beyond the sharing of a general SSA dental pattern --Swenet
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quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: Une critique des méthodes utilisées pour reconstituer les races et les populations de la vallée du Nil (en anglais) Bulletins et Mémoires de la Société d'anthropologie de Paris, Année 1981, Volume 8, Numéro 3 p. 357 - 365
Two contrasting methodologies have been used to reconstruct the racial history of the Nile Valley or to assess the biological affinities of populations in that area. One of these, the classic typological approach, can be called deductive in nature. It assumes that races exist and that their characteristics are known. The other, including various biométrie approaches and that of Numerical Taxonomy, can be characterized as inductive. It assumes that the biological affinity of populations must be established by careful comparison of characteristics. Using specific cases of the application of the two different methodologies, it is demonstrated that the inductive approach is far more productive, as well as being consistent with the modern theory of population biology. On the other hand, the deductive approach is not at all productive, leading to profound inconsistencies in understanding by simply outmoded, stereotypical assumptions.
Nuff said!
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"which clearly shows that the cranial morphology of prehistoric and recent northeast African populations is linked to sub-Saharan populations (Niger-Congo populations)."
Interesting but not surprising since Niger-Congo speakers have their linguistic and genetic origin in northeastern Africa.
_____========================_____
"This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans[edit:like Niger-Congo speakers] has also been noticed by several other investigators (Angel 1972; Berry and Berry 1967, 1972; Keita 1995) and has been recently reinforced by the study of Brace et al. (2005)"
This is interesting too because we know from recent studies that there is strong evidence for population continuity along the Nile from the late Palaeolithic through the Egyptian Empire. We also know that the change of physiology/phenotype along the Nile in that period was due change in diets, environments, lifestyle (pastoralism to agriculture), etc. for the most part.
quote: The population history of the Nile has been of considerable recent interest and focuses on two competing hypotheses. The first suggests that the Egyptian dynasties developed in situ from the earlier Predynastic and Neolithic populations represented at sites such as el-Badari. The second scenario suggests that migration of people from western Asia led to the development of the Egyptian state (Petrie, 1920, 1939; Kantor, 1965). In general, the archaeological evidence suggests that the Egyptian state had an indigenous origin (Hassan, 1988). Two recent studies provide evidence for population dynamics in the Nile Valley throughout the Holocene. Zakrzewski (2007) demonstrates evidence for broad population continuity through time on the basis of craniometric variation, with some level of population movement . Several recent analyses of dental variation come to essentially the same conclusion (Irish, 2005, 2006; Schillaci et al., 2009). Thus, in the most general terms, there is strong evidence for population continuity along the Nile from the late Palaeolithic through the Egyptian Empire. However, the diffusion of agricultural technologies into the Nile from other regions, and the subsequent trade networks of the Egyptian empire, would have undoubtedly brought with it people and genes from other regions to varying extents through time and space.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^This disingenuous troll sees his claim of dental continuity between Mesolithic and holocene Nubians go down the drain
What tf are you talking about?
"This finding is in agreement with morphological data that suggest that populations with sub-Saharan morphological elements were present in northeastern Africa,from the Paleolithic to at least the early Holocene, and diffused northward to the Levant and Anatolia beginning in the Mesolithic ... the study of Brace et al. (2005), which clearly shows that the cranial morphology of prehistoric and recent northeast African populations is linked to sub-Saharan populations (Niger-Congo populations). These results support the hypothesis that some of the Paleolithic-early Holocene populations from northeast Africa were probably descendants of sub-Saharan ancestral populations " Ricaut 2009
Now who else proposed that "Niger-Congo populations" (with special emphasis on the Bantu branch) originated in Northeastern Africa (Sudan) and expanded northward into Egypt (and Levant (Natufians))?
Did you know that there are Hieroglyphs which confirm the northward migration of the "Bantu" (which means "the people" or "people")
BATU, THE BANTU
Oh wow! You also missed the pivotal words prior to the Italicized below:
quote:Anderson’s (1968) argument, then, Irish and Turner (1990) argued for some degree of genetic discontinuity between Pleistocene and Holocene Nubians --Holliday
"Some degree" clearly indicates that there was also "some degree" of biological continuity between the two time periods in this region, just like Ricaut and Brace found.
quote: Context? You said that Jebel Sahabans had African-specific and Iron Age Senegalese specific-affinities. None of which is borne out of Irish' work or Holliday's work.
Iron age West Africans and modern West Africans are of the same affinity..."Negroid"! They are "Negroid" just like the Badari, Kerma, Neolithic Maghreb populations, and Waldi Halfa (which was found to have the closest resemblance to "Jebel Sahaba" samples) were found to be:
quote: "In the sum, the results obtained further strengthen the results from previous analyses. The affinities between Nazlet Khater, MSA, and Khoisan and Khoisan related groups re-emerges.In addition it is possible to detect a separation between North African and sub-saharan populations, with the Neolithic Saharan population from Hasi el Abiod and the Egyptian Badarian group being closely affiliated with modern Negroid groups. Similarly, the Epipaleolithic populations from Site 117 and Wadi Halfa are also affiliated with sub-Saharan LSA, Iron Age and "modern Negroid" groups rather than with contemporaneous North African populations such as Taforalt and the Ibero-maurusian." ---Pierre M. Vermeersch in Palaeolithic quarrying sites in Upper and Middle Egypt
quote: West African- specific phenotypes don't have dual relationships with European Upper Palaeolithic or Ibero-Maurusian remains.
...really?
"Early Europeans still resembled modern tropical peoples - some resemble modern Australian and Africans, more than modern Europeans.. Nor does the picture get any clearer when we move on to the Cro-Magnons, the presumed ancestors of modern Europeans. Some were more like present-day Australians or Africans, judged by objective anatomical observations. " (Christopher Stringer, Robin McKie (1998). African Exodus. Macmillan, p. 162)
The mentioning of the broad featured "Australians" (once considered "Negroid" in early anthropology) demonstrates that the Africans that he's talking about about were also "broad featured".
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:. They (ancient Northeast Africans of the Nile Valley and the fertile crescent) were closest in affinity to the Niger-Congo speakers.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Stop lying. Your excerpt only says Niger Congo have a phenotype that is linked to that of Egyptians-- something I've never denied. The excerpt never says the two phenotypes are mutually inclusive, let alone that either is a descendant of the other.
"Stop lying" where tf am I lying? Bitch are you blind? The exert is clearly equating the "Sub Saharan" African samples to "Niger-Congo" populations, who have a uniformly (with the exception of Tutsi and Fulani) phenotype which was once deemed "true negroid":
Tell me what other population on Earth has this "Sub Saharan" "Niger-Congo" aka "Negroid" skull shape?
Pleistocene Nubian skull:
Amenhotep III
What other population on Earth has this phenotype (dictated entirely by this skull shape)?
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: You bolded the affinity towards Cro-Magnon but you ignored the statement directly behind which completely undermined those findings.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: How does the observation in question undermine those findings? Watch as total silence will ensue from your end because you simply do not know what the phuck you're talking about, and you will not be able to back your claim up, which we will see in your next reply.
Or I can just re-post the exert which you completely ignored in this silly ass rant above.
"Yet he also noted that they shared certain features with the Cro- Magnons, particularly with regard to cranial superstructures.However, he found that features more prone to show environmental effects "
The bolded stated negates your early emphasis of a relationship between Pleistocene Nubians and Cro-Magnon based on this evidence.
quote: Lol. Me saying that none of the migrations that went towards West Africa from the Sudan region had the forest-adapted specific phenotype, has nothing to do with the subject? Really? SMH.
"Forrest adapted"? GTFO. Tell everyone what "forest" or region did these E baring- M2 lineage carrying populations adapt in? Where did they go from that point on, since the features had to have originated in forest.
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