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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 


This particular fresco which, though strictly Saharan, has a Chadic or
maybe central and east African feel about it. Some say she is Auset
(Isis). The provence of this art piece is Inaouanrhat, Tassili N Ajjer in
the middle of the Sahara of southeast Algeria. A larger size repro is in
Henri Lhote
The Search for the Tassili Frescoes
New York: EP Dutton, 1959

Me, I think the figure is of a legendary or mythological
woman or goddess. Her pose suggests she may be
fleeing. More likely she is, perhaps, in a ritual dance.

She appears to have no hands or maybe her hands
are covered. Whatever. Toward the wrist end of her
forearms is some kind of meshed and woven covering.
They are tied, clamp-like, at the ends. The right hand
covering has a single long thread. The left hand covering
has four threads 2/3 as long as the right hand thread.

She also has meshed anklets. Her armlets have fiber threads
hanging from them and her skirt likewise is composed of
fibrous threading, not at all appearing to be a cloth.
Between the skirt and the belly are two strings of beads(?).
Her knees are wrapped in a material similar to that of the
armlets but without any strand attachment. The left knee
wrapping does has something attached to it that extends in
length down to the anklet. It appears to be solid and may
be cloth or leather.

That the figure is female is attested by the slightly
protuberent rounded belly, no hint of a penis seen
behind the skirt, and two long thin breasts. The breasts
are profusely scarified. Scarification is also evident
on the shoulders, the sides or chest to the stomach, and
the right leg. There is some stratified marking on the
right thigh that doesn't appear to be raised bumps of
scarification. The left leg may be missing scars because
they were only raised on the outer side of the leg.

The absence of hands or their covering is one piece of
evidence of the legedary or mythological significance
of the figure. Even more so is the prescence of horns
either growing directly from the head or as part of a
headress. Then there is some sort of aura looking part
of the drawing of the head that composes part of the
forehead nose and upper lip. This "aura", mask, or
headressing completely surrounds the short Afro style
hair and sits up over the crown of the head above the
hair. It's possible that what's taken for horns, actually
represents something else that is associated with what looks
like a field of grain or grass stretched between them. This
"field" adds to the legendary/mythological interpretation and
has something represented by medium sized dots under it that
fills up the space between the "horns", borders the bottom of
the "horns", and borders the face, neck, and collar of the figure.

The painting was executed on the wall of a completely
isolated shelter indicating a sacred space. There are
other figures superimposed on, in front of, and under
the raised right leg of the main figure. These smaller
figures drawn above the knee level of the main figure
appear to be mostly male. The vast majority of them have
a bushy Afro and a goatee beard. Two of them have very
short hair or are bald. Four of them, though in a
fleeing stance, are headless! One set of three men are
armlocked in perhaps a dance step? Alongside them are
three bushy Afro figures with broad hips, thick thighs,
and possibly small breasts, most likely they are female
and a part of the dance. All these little figures are
nude.

Below the knee level is another scene. Another female
depicted in larger size than those already described
but smaller than the main figure, also appears to be
a legedary or mythological personage. Only her head,
arms, and torso are drawn. She has a skirt, breast, side
and stomach scars, armlets, strands dangling from the
right arm, and a headress or nimbus. Surrounding her
is what looks like a rainbow. She is approached by
two small figures, a female walking with the right arm
upraised, and a goateed male in a position of obeisance,
legs spread, proffering a bowl, perhaps containing an
offering of some type.

The entire scene may relate a single motif or story or
set of beliefs held at least 6000 years ago. The paintings
are executed in the style of the Masks period. There are
paintings very similar in style to the "Horned Goddess" in
Sefar. One such has a waistband with clothlike or leather
material hanging from it like the Horned Goddess has on her
left knee. It also has the same type anklets. Another shows
pubescent females with body, thigh, and leg scars.

__________________________
Replaced Image per request

[ 30. April 2007, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Horus_Den_1 ]
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Note: she's been dubbed "White Lady"
 

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Posted by Gedegbe (Member # 9216) on :
 
The "White Lady" nickname actually comes from its putative resemblance with the "White Lady" of Brandberg, Namibia, noticed by BREUIL in the 30's:




Could you please tell us who identified this character with Isis and why? Did the people who advocated this identification claim this as being the result of the bogus early theory of influence of Egypt and Eurasia on Saharan Art or the other way around?

Also, I am not very knowledgeable about modern "Chadic" culture...What in the painting made you think it looks "Chadic"?

Did you identify other cultural traits from specific to other recent Ethnic/Linguistic groups as well?

What do you think about the relevance of the comparatism between Kemetic and Saharan Art?
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Here are more of your so-called "red" people. LOL:

















[ 18. June 2007, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Horus_Den_1 ]
 

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 
Where are no native white people of Africa, and there are no white people in the paleolithic anywhere.

Leucoderm 'white' people are the result of recent mutations which disable the melanin receptors, this process occured during the ice ages and reached it's most extreme among the depgimented European Nordes who are the major outliers in terms of skin color amongst human populations.


 

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 

quote:

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Dr. Nina JABLONSKI

From the reconstructions we have been able to do (using molecular and other
comparative data), darkly pigmented skin was the original state for ALL members
of the genus Homo (that is, for our lineage beginning about 2 million years
ago). It is impossible to say exactly how dark this was, but it was probably
much darker than a "medium hue" and **approached those seen in equatorial Africa today.**

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quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
There are no native white people of Africa, and there are no white people in the paleolithic anywhere.

Leucoderm 'white' people are the result of recent mutations which disable the melanin receptors, this process occured during the ice ages and reached it's most extreme among the depgimented European Nordes who are the major outliers in terms of skin color amongst human populations.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
Where are no native white people of Africa, and there are no white people in the paleolithic anywhere.

Leucoderm 'white' people are the result of recent mutations which disable the melanin receptors, this process occured during the ice ages and reached it's most extreme among the depgimented European Nordes who are the major outliers in terms of skin color amongst human populations.

---

quote:

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If white people are the result of mutations during the Ice Age, why are the Eskimoes brown skin, eventhough they live in extreme cold?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
What do you mean literally there are no people with black or white skin? The Sudanese and Wolof aren't BLACK to you? I've seen many whites with pale skin. I don't know what you're looking at.

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Evergreen Writes:

What is the melanin level that seperates Black skin from Brown skin? What is the melanin level that distinguishes White skin from Olive skin? I eagerly await your answer.
 

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Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 
Those are very pretty pictures, thanks Alktruri
 

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
Where are no native white people of Africa, and there are no white people in the paleolithic anywhere.

Leucoderm 'white' people are the result of recent mutations which disable the melanin receptors, this process occured during the ice ages and reached it's most extreme among the depgimented European Nordes who are the major outliers in terms of skin color amongst human populations.

---

If white people are the result of mutations during the Ice Age, why are the Eskimoes brown skin, eventhough they live in extreme cold?

.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
Where are no native white people of Africa, and there are no white people in the paleolithic anywhere.

Leucoderm 'white' people are the result of recent mutations which disable the melanin receptors, this process occured during the ice ages and reached it's most extreme among the depgimented European Nordes who are the major outliers in terms of skin color amongst human populations.

---

If white people are the result of mutations during the Ice Age, why are the Eskimoes brown skin, eventhough they live in extreme cold?

.

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THE EVOLUTION OF HUMAN SKIN AND SKIN COLOR
by Nina G. Jablonski


The first is that they are relatively recent inhabitants of these climes, having mi-grated to North America only roughly 5,000 years ago.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gedegbe:

Could you please tell us who identified this character with Isis and why? Did the people who advocated this identification claim this as being the result of the bogus early theory of influence of Egypt and Eurasia on Saharan Art or the other way around?

Also, I am not very knowledgeable about modern "Chadic" culture...What in the painting made you think it looks "Chadic"?

Did you identify other cultural traits from specific to other recent Ethnic/Linguistic groups as well?

What do you think about the relevance of the comparatism between Kemetic and Saharan Art?

---

quote:

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Evergreen Writes:

This is also consistent with the migration of Oceanic Asians to the America's and the finds of these Oceanic Asian phenetic types in early Olmec graves.

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Can you provide me with a direct quote and a citation for this? I thought the idea was that the Olmecs were Mande and/or Egyptian.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
The Horned Goddess fresco presents nothing remotely
similar to pastoral Fulani. Ba analyzed other pieces
that in fact do show that Fulani herder practices
stretch back to the time of a green Sahara.
http://ennedi.free.fr/abaniora.htm

This poor quality repro, often dubbed "Peul Girls," has
facial features that are just as much Soninke or Malinke
as Fulbe.

Let's not be hastily anachronistic. Fulani, and other later
sahel ethnies, aren't depicted in early Saharan rock art.

The people on the rock art would very much later
branch off and recombine to compose the peoples
founding the sahel and savanna states.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
This is the Bird Head Goddesses fake that mislead many
an archaeologist, ethnologer, and historian.

Much to his credit Lhote removed it from later
editions of his book. He admitted one of his art
crew fabricated it.

Ausar, can you dig up the exchange we had on this
after you brought it to my attention years ago?
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
This is one of the prime Saharan painting's Ba used.



The "calf rope" used to divide a pastoral Fulani
encampment is very noticeable. Evidence like this
show that Fulani have local antecedence that far
outweighs any distant infusions or accretions.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
I remember discussing this one with an Amazigh friend.
She pointed out to me that maybe one of the "women"
may really be a man (beard) and that one of the ladies
is an Amazon (she has a bow).




 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 

 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 

Copy of rock paintings at Sefar, Tassili n'Ajjer,
by Henri Lhote. Currently on display at the Musée de
l'homme in Paris, the 6,000-year-old paintings show
human and animal life in the early Algerian Sahara


Palimpsests of a lost paradise
Two Paris exhibitions reveal the variety and multi-layered
history of the Algerian Sahara, writes David Tresilian

__________________________________________


With more than 80 per cent of its land area covered by desert, visitors to Algeria have
traditionally confined themselves to the country's coastal regions. Yet, as twin
exhibitions on the Algerian Sahara in Paris confirm, the desert, though inhospitable, is not
uniform, and it contains the remains of some of Africa's oldest cultures, making parts of it at
least a kind of vast museum open to the sky.

The two exhibitions, "Tassili d'Algérie -- Mémoires de pierre" at the Musée de l'homme
and "Saharas d'Algérie" at the Muséum national d'histoire naturelle, present the prehistoric
rock paintings and engravings from the Tassili n'Ajjer area of the Algerian Sahara near the
country's borders with Libya and Niger, placing them in the context of the Sahara as a whole.

Tassili means plateau in tamahaq, the language of the local Touareg people, and the
Tassili n'Ajjer is one of two vast desert plateaux in the south-east of Algeria, the other
being the nearby Tassili Hoggar, containing one of the most important groupings of prehistoric
rock art in the world and recording the climatic changes, animal migrations and development of
human life in the Sahara from around 6,000 BC to the first centuries of the present era.

The rock images, thought to number some 15,000, were discovered in the early 20th century by
French archaeologists working in Algeria, and they were first displayed outside Algeria in
1958 at a Paris exhibition of full-size copies made by archaeologist Henri Lhote, according to
André Malraux "one of the most striking exhibitions of the half century". The present
exhibition presents a selection from these copies, starting with rock engravings from the
so-called "bubaline" period around 6,000 BC, which show animals that are now confined to more
southerly temperate zones of Africa, such as elephants, giraffes and rhinoceros, indicating
that at this early date this now extremely arid area would have enjoyed a quite different
climate. Later images, and those most beautifully copied by Lhote and his team, are
the rock paintings from the "round head" and "bovidian" periods, that show human figures
and animals painted in strong, dark colours, often in bizarre and impossible arrangements.

The earliest of these paintings from the "round head" period, so-called because of the human
figures' rounded heads which are geometrically decorated but without features, show early
agriculture and animal husbandry, again featuring elephants, giraffes and early
domesticated animals. The human figures, in dark ochre with pointillist decoration, float above
and within such scenes, some of them being as much as six metres long and surrounded by other
floating or "swimming" figures in attitudes that are sometimes difficult to interpret.
Later paintings adopt a more naturalistic style, showing scenes of daily
life, as well as scenes showing animal husbandry and herds of cows and other animals. At this
time the Saharan climate would have been humid but not tropical, ideally suited to this type of
husbandry and similar to that found in parts of sub-Saharan Africa today. From 4,000 BC on the
climate became progressively more arid, with desertification pushing the local populations
further south, and later paintings record the introduction of the horse into the region
around 2,000 BC, and finally of the camel in around 200 BC.

These final images, called "cameline" because of their subject matter, record the beginnings of
the nomadic lifestyle associated with today's Touareg populations in Algeria, Mali and Niger,
as increasing desertification and the disappearance of previous eco-systems favoured
the development of regional trading caravans and nomadism. Camels, now associated firmly with
north Africa in the popular imagination, originated in Central Asia, but they swiftly
proved their worth in the now arid Sahara. Such images, the exhibition suggests, superimposed on
those drawn or painted thousands of years earlier, still preserve the memory of an earlier
Sahara of animal and vegetable abundance, the tropical climate then supporting what was later
to become something of a "lost paradise".

"Saharas d'Algérie", the parallel exhibition at the Muséum national d'histoire naturelle, across
Paris at the Jardin des plantes, explains the geography and animal and human populations of
the present Algerian Sahara, drawing attention not only to the region's geographical diversity,
with its vast reg and hamada, rocky plateaux uniform in every direction as far
as the eye can see, erg, or sand seas, tassili and scattered oases, but also to its
different human populations and how these have adapted themselves to the harsh environmental
conditions. The exhibition focusses on the Algerian Touareg, former nomads now mostly
settled around Tamanrasset to the south of the Tassili n'Ajjer plateau and in Djanet, the
nearest settlement to it. Called Kel-Tagoulmoust, or the "veiled people", on
account of elaborate turbans worn to protect themselves from the heat, the Touareg have now
found a new role as guides to the growing numbers of tourists visiting Tassili n'Ajjer and
Tassili Hoggar, both Algerian national parks.

Saharas d'Algérie also presents materials on the desert's many oases, the best known of which for
foreign visitors is still likely to be Biskra in the north, described by André Gide in his novel
L'Immoraliste. Gide, like most of his contemporaries, did not venture to the oasis
settlements further south, which include the M'Zab Valley, 400km directly south of Algiers,
classified as a UNESCO World Heritage Site along with the Tassili n'Ajjer plateau. This oasis,
containing seven towns, among them the fortified city of Béni Isguen founded in the 11th century,
would once have played a significant role as a staging post on caravan routes across the Sahara
and from sub-Saharan Africa to the Mediterranean. Today, the Sahara's main product
is not dates but oil and gas, and immense pipelines run from the gas field of Hassi R'Mel,
north of M'Zeb and one of the largest in the world, to the Mediterranean coast from where gas
is shipped to Europe. An asphalt road has linked Algiers to Tamanrasset since 1978, and more
recently a similar road has reached Djanet, leading the Touareg to abandon their camels for lorries.

It is a matter for regret that the Musée de l'homme exhibition, presenting the splendid
copies made by Lhote of the Tassili n'Ajjer rock paintings to the public for the first time since
1958, has been able to present so few of them: according to exhibition material Lhote made
hundreds of such copies, but only a handful of these are on display. More distressing still,
however, is the condition of the palais de Chaillot itself, now a fast-deteriorating and
empty shell following the removal of the museum's collections to the Louvre prior to the
opening of the new Musée des arts premiers on the Quai Branly in 2005.

The future of this landmark building on the place du Trocadéro is apparently under debate.
But at present its condition makes a depressing introduction to an otherwise fascinating exhibition.

"Tassili d'Algérie: Mémoires de pierre", Musée de l'homme, palais de Chaillot, Paris. 21 May
2003 to 5 January 2004; "Saharas d'Algérie, les paradis inattendus", Muséum national d'histoire
naturelle, Jardin des plantes, Paris. 30 April to 12 October 2003.

© Copyright Al-Ahram Weekly. All rights reserved
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Here's that "Peul Girls" piece I was talking about
earlier. Plenty Malien who aren't Peul look like they do.


 

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Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
[QB] I wrote that piece a few years ago and now don't have
the index cards noting who drew the Isis analogy or why.
Probably, as you said, it resulted from pro-Egypt
diffusionists from back in the day before the "Bird Lady"
paintings were disclosed as fraudulent.

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quote:

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The scarification pattern most closely matched that
of what I've seen on Chadic female bodies hence my
call on a Chadic feel.

I can't articulate what about the entire scene (which
isn't in the cheezy image I had no choice but to use)
culturally resembles which cenral/east African ethny.

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quote:

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I never given any thought to similarity of Saharan
and Kemitic art because frankly I don't see any.
I'm very interested in your opinions about this painting
and hope you get to look at a quality repro. Also
what
do propose in answer to your last two questions?

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Actually, that's not that I don't see any similarities between them, but rather than I don't know how relevant they are!

When I started to compare arts at a layman level (as I still do), I noticed some common features between Dahomey, Saharan , Kemetic arts that were mostly dealing with style of human representations (i.e.the stereotypical Ancient Egyptian posture, important characters being depicted as much bigger than less important ones, skin tone, etc.), but I quickly realized that those features were universal and couldn't be attributed to a common way of thinking/heritage especially with a such important hiati between the different arts (know this can sound stupid but that was actually what I was first thinking at the time!).

Same with animal-headed characters. Even cases like the orned rams/sun-disk headed Amun comparison leave me suspicious although I've never seen similar instances in distant cultures. I guess only specific and complex ornaments such as the Atef crown would convince me but I've yet to see one. French scholar LE QUELLEC also made a mention of mythological similarities illustrated by an Egyptian scene featuring Hathor resembling a Messak scene which sounded pretty convincing to me.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^Well there is little doubt that there was much contact between the myriad peoples that once shared the Sahara as home when it was once green.

Btw Takruri, have you heard of this woman before?
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
While scarification is spread nearly throughout the
continent where the dark skin makes for permanent
beautiful keloids, the particular patterns are bound
to vary due to everything from asthetics to ritual
specifications or symbology. It's the pattern not the
scarring that makes me think Tschad (which isn't so
far from Tissili N'Ajjer at all and the Tibesti is in the
Sahara anyway, though the Chadics with similar body
art patterns are south of the lake iirc).

I know the repro isn't the highest of quality but in
the book where it's clearer the body art looks like
keloid rather then paint but then keloids aren't
white so obviously your point's better than mine.

quote:

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Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:
Is this the kind of scarifications or their repartition on the body that made you feel the character looked "Chadic"? I'm saying that because I've seen several Vodun/Orisha priests with this kind of spotted scarifications.

Also still referring to religious Bight of Benin people, I'm wondering if the spots on the character's skin aren't painted spots rather than scarifications. What do you think? (I'll try to take a look at the books I've seen these pics for more precise infos asap)

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Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
 


Many of these carvings depict Nile Valley and desert fauna that retreated from the region soon after 3500 BC, including elephant, giraffe, rhinoceros and ostrich. Also depicted are indigenous desert wildlife such as ibex, gazelle and antelope. There are also images of people, including those wearing the typical penis pouch and others with ornamental wigs, which can also be dated to about 3500 BC. Other rock art depicts boats and groups of people wearing feather ornaments, who were originally thought to have been invaders who moved into the area from the Red Sea. However, somewhat recent scholarship appears to prove otherwise. More likely, they were probably indigenous people who came in contact with others from the Nile Valley, and in fact, these people may have spent a part of their lives in the Nile Valley, migrating to the eastern desert during specific seasons.

.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Myra, what's the provenance of that pic? Is it
the desert between the Nile and the Red Sea?
 

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Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
 
During the Pharaonic Period, as now, desert nomads traveled from water source to water source across the coastal regions of the southern part of the Eastern Desert. In reports from expeditions during these times, the people who inhabited the desert were collectively referred to as "Medjay" Today, we make the assumption that the Bedja and Ma'aza tribes who inhabit the region are the descendants of the pharaonic Medja, but mostly because of the similarities in their names. This may not be the case, however. There is no documented continuity of settlement, since during the fourth and fifth centuries, nomadic groups called the "Blemmyes" penetrated the region. The Medjay were used by the ancient Egyptians as scouts and workers, organized under their own chiefs on pharaonic expeditions.

Nubian soldiers and scouts carefully controlled and monitored the "desert of Coptos". The southern desert areas and especially the gold deposits in the Wadi Barramiya and the Wadi Mia across from Edfu were controlled by the viceroy of Nubia. [Source]

.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Nope. This honey's more my taste in a Red Sea Jewess.

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:


Btw Takruri, have you heard of this woman before?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
Also Myra, you think the modern day Beja are not the direct descendants of the Medjay? If so, then who then? Or rather what is your take on the history of the Eastern desert nomads??

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The Medjay, which were dwellers of the Eastern Desert is identified with the 'pan grave' culture. The Medjay are the forefathers of the Beja (known to the Romans as the “Blemmyes).

Reference:

Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, by Katheryn A. Bard (1999)

She is coming out with a revised edition May 11th as a textbook.

.
 

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Posted by Horus_Den_1 (Member # 12222) on :
 
Saharan rock art
 

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Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
 
Masked Figure. Sahara. Algeria. Archaic or Round Head style.
9000-7000 BCE




Horned Figure. Sahara. Algeria. Archaid or Round Head Style.
9000-7000 BCE







The human and human-like figures express a very high degree of symbolism (e.g. the 'Great God' at Sefar),
which seems to infer a more developed society, with well established religious beliefs and rituals.

This could be the most ancient ethno-mycological finding up to the present day, which goes back to the
so-called "Round Heads" Period (i.e. 9,000-7,000 years ago). The centre of this style is Tassili, but
examples are also to be found at Tadrart Acacus (Libya), Ennedi (Chad), and at Jebel Uweinat (Egypt)
(Muzzolini, 1986:173-175).


Jebel Uweinat, Egypt (South West corner of Egypt's Western Desert (or Libyan Desert))
8000 BCE










Research Site:

The Missing Links

.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Ms Myra

A 1,000 1,000 blessings unto you
(especially for the Horned Goddess)!

ATTN Moderator
Could you place that photo beside (not below)
the repro in the initial post, please. Thanx.
 

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Posted by Quetzalcoatl (Member # 12742) on :
 
A couple of days ago , alTakruri asked Myra in reference to a painting of a boat:

quote:

---

Myra, what's the provenance of that pic? Is it
the desert between the Nile and the Red Sea?

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I, too, would be interested in the answer. Are there many more pictures of boats? where are they mostly found?
 

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Posted by Quetzalcoatl (Member # 12742) on :
 
another paper supporting the original color of modern humans as dark;

Lao, O., et al. 2007 “Signatures of Positive Selection in Genes Associated with Human Skin Pigmentation as Revealed from Analyses of Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms,” [u]Annals of Human Genetics [/u] 71: 354–369

Summary
Phenotypic variation between human populations in skin pigmentation correlates with latitude at the continental level. A large number of hypotheses involving genetic adaptation have been proposed to explain human variation in skin colour, but only limited genetic evidence for positive selection has been presented. To shed light on the evolutionary genetic history of human variation in skin colour we inspected 118 genes associated with skin pigmentation in the Perlegen dataset, studying single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs), and analyzed 55 genes in detail. We identified eight genes that are associated with the melanin pathway (SLC45A2, OCA2, TYRP1, DCT,
KITLG, EGFR, DRD2 and PPARD) and presented significant differences in genetic variation between Europeans, Africans and Asians. In six of these genes we detected, by means of the EHH test, variability patterns that are compatible with the hypothesis of local positive selection in Europeans (OCA2, TYRP1 and KITLG) and in Asians (OCA2, DCT, KITLG, EGFR and DRD2), whereas signals were scarce in Africans (DCT, EGFR and DRD2). Furthermore, a statistically significant correlation between genotypic variation in four pigmentation candidate genes and phenotypic variation of skin colour in 51 worldwide human populations was revealed. Overall, our data also suggest that light skin colour is the derived state and is of independent origin in Europeans and Asians, whereas dark skin color seems of unique origin, reflecting the ancestral state in humans.
 

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Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
 

could this saharan pass as reddish-brown
 

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Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl:
A couple of days ago , alTakruri asked Myra
in reference to a painting of a boat:

quote:

---

Myra, what's the provenance of that pic?
Is it the desert between the Nile and the Red
Sea?

---

I, too, would be interested in the
answer. Are there many more pictures of boats?
where are they mostly found?

---

Eastern Desert "Boat" Rock Art



The "chieftains" boat from Wadi Abu Wasil, Eastern Desert


4500 BCE



Petroglyph reflecting an occupied boat with oars and a star overhead.
This petroglyph is located in the Wadi Hammamat in the Eastern Desert
and the general interpretation of the imagery is religious in nature,
perhaps depicting an afterworld journey. Interestingly, many of the
occupants of the boats in the petroglyphs of the Eastern desert reflect the
same position, arms upraised and bent, almost into a circular position.
This position is also seen reflected in early clay forms of prehistoric
deities and could have developed into the later two-plumed figure.




This petroglyph is located in the Wadi Barramiya in the Eastern Desert
and was discovered during Toby Wilkinson's expedition (December
2000). Perched high upon the cliff face, has saved it from modern graffiti.
Again you'll find the occupants with the same type of arm positioning. What
is quite intriguing about the rock art of the Eastern Desert is the frequent
use of boats. Whether or not they were all meant to depict journeys into
the afterworld is a matter of speculation.




Petroglyph reflecting an occupied boat, with the
occupant wearing a very interesting head-dress
and pointing westward. This petroglyph is
located in the Wadi Barramiya as well, but
has unfortunately been defaced by modern
graffiti, a common hazard to any rock art within
easy reach. The head-dress worn by the occupant
of the boat seems a precursor to the twin-plumed
head-dress usually seen worn by later gods. If
it is, and the occupant of the boat is a deity,
it makes the direction in which he is pointing
all the more interesting as west was the land of
the dead in ancient Egyptian religion. This
could be the earliest representation of a
funerary deity.


Wadi Hammamat Desert People

In this part of the Eastern desert live the Ababda Bedu people.








References:

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/lankester2/page5.html

http://www.geocities.com/mangascochise/rocks2006egypt.html

.
 

---

Posted by Quetzalcoatl (Member # 12742) on :
 
Thank you Myra.

These boats were located between the Nile and the Red Sea. Are there boat pictures in places like the Hoggar and Tibesti?
 

---

Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl:
Thank you Myra.

Are there boat pictures in places like the Hoggar and Tibesti?

---

I didn't find any pictures of boats on their rock art.

Tibesti Chad Rock Art, 7000 BCE




More pictures of Tibesti:

http://www.tibesti.org/presentation/rupestres.htm

.
 

---

Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
 
Djehuti:
You may be familiar with a double bovine depicted on a Predynastic Egyptian Palette: that's the one I was referring to as well as its ressemblances with other "double bovines" from Séfar (Tassili) and from Sumerian archaic Sumerian dynasties. I'll try to find some pics of them online later.
 

---

Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

---

Copy of rock paintings at Sefar, Tassili n'Ajjer, by Henri Lhote. Currently on display at the Musée de l'homme in Paris, the 6,000-year-old paintings show human and animal life in the early Algerian Sahara.


Check out the headdress.




Closeup




Source of photo:

The Religious Experience of Mankind, by Ninian Smart, p. 46 (1984)

.
 

---

Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:


This particular fresco which, though strictly Saharan, has a Chadic or
maybe central and east African feel about it. Some say she is Auset
(Isis). The provence of this art piece is Inaouanrhat, Tassili N Ajjer in
the middle of the Sahara of southeast Algeria. A larger size repro is in
Henri Lhote
The Search for the Tassili Frescoes
New York: EP Dutton, 1959

Me, I think the figure is of a legendary or mythological
woman or goddess. Her pose suggests she may be
fleeing. More likely she is, perhaps, in a ritual dance.

She appears to have no hands or maybe her hands
are covered. Whatever. Toward the wrist end of her
forearms is some kind of meshed and woven covering.
They are tied, clamp-like, at the ends. The right hand
covering has a single long thread. The left hand covering
has four threads 2/3 as long as the right hand thread.

She also has meshed anklets. Her armlets have fiber threads
hanging from them and her skirt likewise is composed of
fibrous threading, not at all appearing to be a cloth.
Between the skirt and the belly are two strings of beads(?).
Her knees are wrapped in a material similar to that of the
armlets but without any strand attachment. The left knee
wrapping does has something attached to it that extends in
length down to the anklet. It appears to be solid and may
be cloth or leather.

That the figure is female is attested by the slightly
protuberent rounded belly, no hint of a penis seen
behind the skirt, and two long thin breasts. The breasts
are profusely scarified. Scarification is also evident
on the shoulders, the sides or chest to the stomach, and
the right leg. There is some stratified marking on the
right thigh that doesn't appear to be raised bumps of
scarification. The left leg may be missing scars because
they were only raised on the outer side of the leg.

The absence of hands or their covering is one piece of
evidence of the legedary or mythological significance
of the figure. Even more so is the prescence of horns
either growing directly from the head or as part of a
headress. Then there is some sort of aura looking part
of the drawing of the head that composes part of the
forehead nose and upper lip. This "aura", mask, or
headressing completely surrounds the short Afro style
hair and sits up over the crown of the head above the
hair. It's possible that what's taken for horns, actually
represents something else that is associated with what looks
like a field of grain or grass stretched between them. This
"field" adds to the legendary/mythological interpretation and
has something represented by medium sized dots under it that
fills up the space between the "horns", borders the bottom of
the "horns", and borders the face, neck, and collar of the figure.

The painting was executed on the wall of a completely
isolated shelter indicating a sacred space. There are
other figures superimposed on, in front of, and under
the raised right leg of the main figure. These smaller
figures drawn above the knee level of the main figure
appear to be mostly male. The vast majority of them have
a bushy Afro and a goatee beard. Two of them have very
short hair or are bald. Four of them, though in a
fleeing stance, are headless! One set of three men are
armlocked in perhaps a dance step? Alongside them are
three bushy Afro figures with broad hips, thick thighs,
and possibly small breasts, most likely they are female
and a part of the dance. All these little figures are
nude.

Below the knee level is another scene. Another female
depicted in larger size than those already described
but smaller than the main figure, also appears to be
a legedary or mythological personage. Only her head,
arms, and torso are drawn. She has a skirt, breast, side
and stomach scars, armlets, strands dangling from the
right arm, and a headress or nimbus. Surrounding her
is what looks like a rainbow. She is approached by
two small figures, a female walking with the right arm
upraised, and a goateed male in a position of obeisance,
legs spread, proffering a bowl, perhaps containing an
offering of some type.

The entire scene may relate a single motif or story or
set of beliefs held at least 6000 years ago. The paintings
are executed in the style of the Masks period. There are
paintings very similar in style to the "Horned Goddess" in
Sefar. One such has a waistband with clothlike or leather
material hanging from it like the Horned Goddess has on her
left knee. It also has the same type anklets. Another shows
pubescent females with body, thigh, and leg scars.

__________________________
Replaced Image per request

---

[ 18. June 2007, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Horus_Den_1 ]
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
let us appreciate these depictions of non-black "medium tone" people from the Sahara:





LOL

[ 18. June 2007, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Horus_Den_1 ]
 

---

Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 
^ And their descendants.

 

---

Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
 
Horned Figure. Sahara. Algeria. Archaid or Round Head Style.
9000-7000 BCE




François Soleilhavoup
Images Têtes rondes dans l'art rupestre saharien: la piste animiste
The Sahara Journal, Abstracts of Sahara, volume 16 (2005)

ABSTRACT

The so-called Round head art, essentially pictographic, is definitly the most original and mysterious of all Saharan rock art. It is totally neolithic and its definition is based on the concurrence of several elements: style (figuratively synthetic, pseudo-naturalistic images), technique (solid white, yellow and red colours, often with dark couloured outlines), pigments and subjects, representing a strongly spiritualized mental universe, dominated by immaterialism and symbolism. An iconographic analysis of the main artistic expressions in the different stages of the Round head art reveals the neolithic roots of African art, and at the same time appears to be one of the possible sources of African animism. The African features of the Round head art are indubitable, such as negroid face profiles, characteristic morpho-anatomies, tegumentary decors, depictions of masks and dances. The animistic interpretation is based on a number of elements which altogether show a certain coherence, on a material, intellectual, psychologic or symbolic ground. Without necessarily evoking shamanic practices, in order to try and shed some light on the mystery of Round head art it is important to investigate the present survivals of African animism. Could possibly ethnocomparatism shed some light on this art, definitely out of the picture. [Source]

.
 

---

Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
 
Algeria finds more ancient rock etchings
Mon 18 Jun 2007

ALGIERS (Reuters) - Algeria, a treasure house of prehistoric Saharan art, has discovered more neolithic rock etchings in the desert from around 8,000 years ago showing cattle herds, a government newspaper reported Monday.

El Moudjahid daily said local tour guide Hadj Brahim found about 40 images near the town of Bechar, about 800 km (500 miles) southwest of the capital Algiers.

Prehistoric paintings are found in many parts of the Sahara, often portraying a garden-like environment of hunting and dancing in bright greens, yellows and reds at a time before desertification, which happened around 4,000 years ago.

Algeria's best known drawings are in the southeast in the Tassili N'Ajjer mountains. The site of 15,000 images has been named world's finest prehistoric open-air art museum by UNESCO.

Despite a rich Saharan inheritance, Algeria remains off the beaten track for most tourists because of its politically unstable history and an undeveloped tourist sector. [Source]

.
 

---

Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
 
I contacted the Bradshaw Foundation for information about this piece.

Rock Art from Chad



Bradshaw Foundation reply:

"This panel dates from the Pastoral Period - 4000 to 2000 BC. The figures are 2 metres tall. The panel is one of 5 such panels located in a six-square-mile area of Eastern Chad. In Tubu, the local language, they are called Niola Doa [Beautiful Ladies]. The patterns polished into their bodies are reminiscent of body painting still practised today elsewhere in Africa."

Peter Robinson, Editor
Have you seen our iLecture films?
www.bradshawfoundation.com/ilectures

.
 

---

Posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:


This particular fresco which, though strictly Saharan, has a Chadic or maybe central and east African feel about it. Some say she is Auset
(Isis). The provence of this art piece is Inaouanrhat, Tassili N Ajjer in the middle of the Sahara of southeast Algeria. A larger size repro is in
Henri Lhote
The Search for the Tassili Frescoes
New York: EP Dutton, 1959

Me, I think the figure is of a legendary or mythological woman or goddess. Her pose suggests she may be fleeing. More likely she is, perhaps, in a ritual dance.

She appears to have no hands or maybe her hands
are covered. Whatever. Toward the wrist end of her forearms is some kind of meshed and woven covering. They are tied, clamp-like, at the ends. The right hand covering has a single long thread. The left hand covering has four threads 2/3 as long as the right hand thread.

She also has meshed anklets. Her armlets have fiber threads hanging from them and her skirt likewise is composed of fibrous threading, not at all appearing to be a cloth. Between the skirt and the belly are two strings of beads(?).
Her knees are wrapped in a material similar to that of the armlets but without any strand attachment. The left knee wrapping does has something attached to it that extends in
length down to the anklet. It appears to be solid and may be cloth or leather.

That the figure is female is attested by the slightly protuberent rounded belly, no hint of a penis seen behind the skirt, and two long thin breasts. The breasts are profusely scarified. Scarification is also evident on the shoulders, the sides or chest to the stomach, and
the right leg. There is some stratified marking on the right thigh that doesn't appear to be raised bumps of scarification. The left leg may be missing scars because they were only raised on the outer side of the leg.

The absence of hands or their covering is one piece of evidence of the legedary or mythological significance of the figure. Even more so is the prescence of horns either growing directly from the head or as part of a headress. Then there is some sort of aura looking part of the drawing of the head that composes part of the forehead nose and upper lip. This "aura", mask, or headressing completely surrounds the short Afro style hair and sits up over the crown of the head above the
hair. It's possible that what's taken for horns, actually represents something else that is associated with what looks like a field of grain or grass stretched between them. This "field" adds to the legendary/mythological interpretation and has something represented by medium sized dots under it that fills up the space between the "horns", borders the bottom of the "horns", and borders the face, neck, and collar of the figure.

The painting was executed on the wall of a completely isolated shelter indicating a sacred space. There are other figures superimposed on, in front of, and under the raised right leg of the main figure. These smaller figures drawn above the knee level of the main figure
appear to be mostly male. The vast majority of them have a bushy Afro and a goatee beard. Two of them have very short hair or are bald. Four of them, though in a fleeing stance, are headless! One set of three men are armlocked in perhaps a dance step? Alongside them are three bushy Afro figures with broad hips, thick thighs, and possibly small breasts, most likely they are female and a part of the dance. All these little figures are nude.

Below the knee level is another scene. Another female depicted in larger size than those already described but smaller than the main figure, also appears to be a legedary or mythological personage. Only her head, arms, and torso are drawn. She has a skirt, breast, side and stomach scars, armlets, strands dangling from the right arm, and a headress or nimbus. Surrounding her
is what looks like a rainbow. She is approached by two small figures, a female walking with the right arm upraised, and a goateed male in a position of obeisance, legs spread, proffering a bowl, perhaps containing an offering of some type.

The entire scene may relate a single motif or story or set of beliefs held at least 6000 years ago. The paintings are executed in the style of the Masks period. There are paintings very similar in style to the "Horned Goddess" in
Sefar. One such has a waistband with clothlike or leather material hanging from it like the Horned Goddess has on her left knee. It also has the same type anklets. Another shows pubescent females with body, thigh, and leg scars.

__________________________
Replaced Image per request

---

You immediately said it looked East African
and Chadic. Myra joined in. I decided not to say anything because the day before I saw a photographs and more photographs of women with the exact same scarifications of thin lines and the exact same clothing.

I also was a attracted to that Saharan Rock Art painting not knowing why. You and I are attracted to this woman because she is OUR great great great times x.......great grandmother.
Along the far west coast of Africa that's what the women wore. I have the pics. The West Atlantic Speaking people which includes the Serer and Fulani women dressed like that. Other West Atlantic tribes had women who wore the belt aroud their waists with a thin loin cloth dangling
down the middle with. The scarifications are up and down the belly and on the shoulders. They wore ankle, wrist, and arm bracelets of white cloth. I did not want to post this on EgyptSearch months ago.

The Fulani and Mande and other West African pagans did not wear shirts. I have many actual old photographs showing this and many wore very very simple loincloths up to recently and some still do.

The string coming from the wrists is obviously raffia. It is a vegetable material often seen dangling from masks. The woman has her face covered. In West African initiation ceremonies face with black cloths. I have some photos of that. There are horns emanating from the front to the back as opposed to what you would see on a normal male animal with two horns in the front.

On these Mende masks you can see horns emanating from the front to back. There are only two places
in Africa today where wome wear masks.

1. Nigeria - the Gelede masks of the Yoruba
2. Sierra Leone/Liberia - the Sowei masks of the Mende

Only the Mende and neighboring tribal women wear
horns similar to the ones in the Saharan Art
painting.





Mende Masks with horns going front to back worn by women!
 

---

Posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Myra Wysinger:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by alTakruri:

---

[qb]Copy of rock paintings at Sefar, Tassili n'Ajjer, by Henri Lhote. Currently on display at the Musée de l'homme in Paris, the 6,000-year-old paintings show human and animal life in the early Algerian Sahara.

Check out the headdress.


Yeah, check these out:

The Bassari, A West Atlantic speaking group from Senegal



A Bassari young woman with face covered with black cloth. Cowrie beads cover the cloth.



Notice the bracelets on this Bassari woman!



Bassari Initiation Ceremony - notice the headress


 

---

Posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
 


Let's just say that there are old and not so old photos of women dress just like above with the EXACT SAME SCARIFICATIONS who belong to the West Atlantic speaking tribal groups. I've decided not to show those pics for obvious reasons.


Here are some men. Diola is a Mande speaking group which was very pagan.

Mankagnes from Casamance region of Senegal(what was N'gabu)




A Diola man



This should give you an idea what the women wore since they dressed very similarly.

This is one of the reasons why the study of the
far west of Africa is so important. The other is
because when the African American LEADERS trace
their roots they will end up in this area.
Don't you realize what that means? The rest of
Africa will be overlooked and there will be
a reversal of fortune in coming years as more
and more contact is made between the two groups.

Now, I'm out of here.

God Bless you all and God Bless America!
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
If you in fact do have images of modern women that
match the Sahara Horned Goddess in costume then
by all means post them here so that we all can compare
and contrast. What you've shown so far is at best only
very vaguely similar if at all.
 

---

Posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
 
I could do that. Thes women are barechested though. It is common to see barechested African women on the Internet and in magazines. Usually this is not done to women of other races as often. Just trust me. I knew all this when you first posted this in may. I could edit the photos are place a black line across their tops.

Hmmmmm.....

Then again why give away such photos. They are online in the French speaking Internet.

You should see what the Senegalese Fulani looked like as well.
 

---

Posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
 
Al Takruri,

I gotta get off Egyptsearch for good. We ain't got time for another few years of arguing online. Things are moving fast.

Firstly, Midogbe, a native French speaker, tried to hint that this Horned Goddess is "Fulani-like", and y'all ignored what he was trying to say. That's what happens here. Common sense would tell anybody that if Amadou Hampate Ba could find a connection to Saharan Rock Art, then there should be other caomparisons to other West Atlantic Group speaking ethnicities.

Nevertheless, I'm tired of posting stuff and doing research just to have it go on Myra's site or to have Dr. Winter's take credit. I'd have to post properly.

I said a long time ao that the Francophone Africans were light years ahead of the African Americans. I hated to say that, but it's true.
Now, I say it even more. The Francophone Africans are really really really ahead of the African Americans in their Africanity knowldge. This gulf cannot be fixed soon.

Black America is losing its power and place in the USA. The Hispanics are squeezing the Blacks out of position. We don't have much time. I predict the Blacks in West Africa and France will be the #1 Black group within 20-30 years if not sooner. I hate to say it. I hope I'm wrong. But, I see the signs.

They are finding oil from Muaretania to Angola in the very countries the slave trade emanated from. How Ironic! With this fast-pace Chinese investment and if the fools in these countries don't go into internal warfare, they should do well. As the rich African Americans go back and set up tourism to these countries a whole new paradign should develop.

It's a new day. Egyptsearch is slowing me down. Oh, I could point out to Dr. Winters about 10 things that could prove some of what he's saying on the African side. But, he has the Ph.D.

On this thread you have boats from Egypt and Nubia with people in them. This same type of Rock Art can only be found outside the Nile Valley in Mali, West Africa. That's because the ancient Egyptians went to West Africa.

I'm tired of arguing over every little thing with these people. They will beleive when a person of European descent tells them and people of European descent are all over Africa with their Ph.D.s in African Studies and they are going all over finding new things. My next stop is the Francophone Internet, except for the DNA studies which are in English, le monde francophone is where to be.

There is Rock Art in Sierra Leone, Togo, Nigeria and probably every African country's caves. The term Saharan Rock Art is deceptive.

Let me go.

Au Revoir.
 

---

Posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
 
Thursday, 21 June 2007 - Features
New Rock Art in Algeria – An Exciting Discovery

http://www.algeria.com/blog/new-rock-art-in-algeria-an-exciting-discovery

There is no greater source of insight into the lives of prehistoric people than rock art. There is little wonder then, that a massive furor always accompanies the discovery of legitimate new rock art. This is exactly what has happened with the discovery of Neolithic rock etchings in Algeria.

This is not the first and certainly not the only rock art in Algeria. The country has long been viewed as being a virtual treasure trove of prehistoric rock art. Unfortunately, unstable political conditions in some parts of the country have inhibited the careful study of such art for years.

The latest discoveries were made by a local tour guide named Hadj Brahim near the town of Bechar, which is roughly 800 kilometers southwest of the country’s capital city, Algiers. Brahim discovered approximately 40 new rock art images depicting cattle herds and other aspects of life in a fertile land. It is thought that the desertification of the Sahara only occurred about 4000 years ago so it was immediately evident that these new paintings are older than that. Subsequent dating of the artwork has estimated that it is approximately 8000 years old. Almost all prehistoric Saharan rock art depicts a garden-like environment where activities such as hunting, cattle farming and dancing must have been commonplace. Colors such as greens, yellows and reds are frequently observed in such artwork, unlike later work which tends to be mostly in browns, brown-reds and blacks.

To this day, the best known Algerian rock art is probably that found in the Tassili N’Ajjer mountains. This absolutely massive rock art sight features some 15 000 different images and is a UNESCO world heritage site. UNESCO has even gone so far as to call it the “world’s finest prehistoric open-air art museum.” While this ancient evidence of prehistoric life has been carefully protected and studied for centuries, very few have been able to enjoy it because of the unstable political climate in Algeria. Hopefully sights, such as the one in the Tassili N’Ajjer Mountains and the new one near Bechar, will soon become commonplace features on every visitor’s travel itinerary. Only time will tell.


http://www.egyptrockart.blogspot.com/

Ain't got time. Y'all tooooooooooooo slow.

I'm gone.
 

---

Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 
^ translation: Standard wounded ego flameout.
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Oh save us from false tired morality. With what's
available on the 'net how titilating can the images
be?

So don't be such a prude. Human female breasts are
beautiful. Men love 'em. Babies are nourished on
'em. Quite a few women go gahgah over 'em.
But most important of all, the women of these
societies are not so sick that they themselves
feel anything odd at all about bare breasts.

When you post what you claim to have, be it women
or Fulbe, then we will see it, and believe it.
Until then ...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian:
I could do that. Thes women are barechested though. It is common to see barechested African women on the Internet and in magazines. Usually this is not done to women of other races as often. Just trust me. I knew all this when you first posted this in may. I could edit the photos are place a black line across their tops.

Hmmmmm.....

Then again why give away such photos. They are online in the French speaking Internet.

You should see what the Senegalese Fulani looked like as well.

---

 

---

Posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
 
COMPROMISE and this is my very last post for real.

This is it! No more!




Another Diola guy

The following were edited:



Fula females.



Diola females.



Serer female.

I have pics of the women with the scars that match exactly the Saharan art painting. You won't get them. But, now I know why the DNA researchers go where they go. It all makes sense now.




Fula female with interesting hair.

She's definitely a relative of mine. Got to be.
Must be. Wow. The Fula pagans wore wrap around skirts.

All these people look very much like people I met or known over time.

These pics were from about 100 years ago.
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
And none of them remotely resemble the Horned
Goddess less lone match her attire or markings.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian:

These pics were from about 100 years ago.

---

 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Lol! All that dramatic pause for nothing. And it is funny how Egyptian women were also bare chested in many of their artwork but this not offensive. In fact all ancient societies painted and sculpted men and women in the nude or semi nude. Only the sick, distorted and demented cultures of the west have turned natural beauty into a sick internet closet fetish. In older societies breasts were no more "seductive" than cow udders, because they were seen as the same types of organs, milk glands and not as the objects of sexual desire that they are promoted as today.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Remember what I once said pertaining to views on nudity, especially in tropical countries where the climate was hot. Nudity was not associated only with sex, but that simply it was the body itself-- the person whole. Breasts are indeed sexual in that they are female organs not only to nurse children but also to attract males, but that they are still chests just as men have chests, and that womens bodies were not so sexually objectified as it is in many so-called modern cultures today.
 

---

Posted by Agluza (Member # 14023) on :
 
Here it is (fig.10 11 & 12)!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:
Djehuti:
You may be familiar with a double bovine depicted on a Predynastic Egyptian Palette: that's the one I was referring to as well as its ressemblances with other "double bovines" from Séfar (Tassili) and from Sumerian archaic Sumerian dynasties. I'll try to find some pics of them online later.

---

 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Excellent finding, Agluza!
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
I'm bumping this thread for coverage of matter
peripheral to the Sefar "smiter" thread so it can
continue without undue distraction.

So here's the place to discuss trade, sequences
and dating, etc.
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
DJ I bumped up this Saharan thread for stuff about
trade and what not. Anyway that was a friendly
increase-the-knowledge challenge I made in the
Sefar "Smiter" thread not banter for barnyard bantam bouting.

So please clue us in. Doubtless, the main trails
used after Islam were in use for centuries if not
millenia before Islam and we know portions of the
routes do go back to the stone age because of the
presence of local works crafted from imported raw
materials in damn near every region be it forest or
Green Sahara.

The first and second volumes of the UNESCO series
has research into prehistoric industry and trade. So
does the Cambridge series as well as the stand alone Ajayi
and Crowder History of West Africa.
 

---

Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
 
Related topic:

Sings of proto-Egyptian proto-Peul culture in Tassili n’Ajjer [Southern Algeria]?
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
That's the same Coppens article we've been discussing lately.
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=006397
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
BTW: the Pastoralist style segues the Bovidian and
Chariot styles.

Hachid has earlier 'whites' in her book but something
about the quality of the paintings makes me cock my
head.

They're like the ones Lhote called the Judges/Antinea.


Antinéa

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
The "stick heads" are from the Acacus. Muzzulini assigns them a subset of the pastoralist style.

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Originally posted by alTakruri:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
This picture probably does not date back to the bovidian period.

What is its source? Where was it published?

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Thanks for the information

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quote:

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Originally posted by Myra Wysinger:





Closeup




Source of photo:

The Religious Experience of Mankind, by Ninian Smart, p. 46 (1984)

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^ Interesting, that this sacred religious ceremonial dance is performed by men wearing not only spirit masks but fake breasts. Obviously, a blatant sign of male usurpation of an originally feminine role.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Why not just a sign of androgynous principles?

And let's keep this thread on the topic of its
subject header, namely SAHARAN ROCK ART
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Before Lhote did his thing the Swiss had documented
Tassili n'Ajjer. The book is super-rare, not even in
major libraries.

Yolande Tschudi
Les peintres rupestres du Tassili-n-Ajjer
Neuchatel: A la Baconnière, 1956


The Libyan Desert has also yielded great finds recently.


For details on this DVD go to http://www.fjexpeditions.com/resources/RA_CD/RA_CD.htm
 

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