quote:The ancient Mycenaeans and Minoans were most closely related to each other, and they both got three-quarters of their DNA from early farmers who lived in Greece and southwestern Anatolia, which is now part of Turkey, the team reports today in Nature. Both cultures additionally inherited DNA from people from the eastern Caucasus, near modern-day Iran, suggesting an early migration of people from the east after the early farmers settled there but before Mycenaeans split from Minoans.
The Mycenaeans did have an important difference: They had some DNA—4% to 16%—from northern ancestors who came from Eastern Europe or Siberia. This suggests that a second wave of people from the Eurasian steppe came to mainland Greece by way of Eastern Europe or Armenia, but didn’t reach Crete, says Iosif Lazaridis, a population geneticist at Harvard University who co-led the study.
^ My thoughts: The above findings confirm the suprastraum theory of Indo-European migrations into Greece-- that is the actual IE speaking Proto-Greeks were themselves a small group who entered the region and spread their language and some of their culture among the predominant natives. This seems to be the prevailing theory of the spread of IE in other regions including India. By the way, the same theory may also apply to the Pre-Proto-Semitic speakers who entered the Levant from Africa.
Many people tend to identify the Mycenaeans with the early Hellenes (Greeks); however, 'Mycenaean' is a label applied to an archaeological group that was Bronze Age mainland Greece. While there is no doubt that early Hellenes were among the Mycenaean peoples, to identify the Mycenaeans as a whole as Greek is erroneous. Even the Hellenes in their ancient histories say that before the sons/tribes of Hellen spread forth there were 'Autochthones' (Aboriginal) peoples who ruled the peninsula and islands. The chief group who lived in the peninsula were a people called the Pelasgoi/Pelasgians whom the Greeks learned the art of building temples and other monuments and learned the rituals of worship. But there were other peoples mentioned like the Lapiths, Myrmidons, Minyans, Hyantes, Curetes, etc. etc.
Even the few surviving texts from the Mycenaean period written in Linear B script while in an early from of Greek show many nouns and names of places and deities having non-Greek/non-IE origin.
By the way, there were three main cultures in the Bronze Age Aegean-- the Mycenaean of mainland Greece, the Minoan of Crete, and the Cycladic of the Cycladic Islands. Are there any references to the latter??
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
I would like to read this paper when it is free. To understand the relationship between the Anatolians and Minoans you have to understand the history of Anatolia and Lower Egypt. Lower Egypt up to Anatolia was inhabited by the Kushites. Anatolia, was represented by the Kassites, the Hattic, Hurrian and Kaska people. These populations belonged the C-Group (or Kushite) people who left Nubia in search of metals after 3500 BC.
The Mycenaeans and Cretans came from Lower Egypt and the Fezzan.
The Pelasgians founded many cities. The Pelasgian founding of Athens is noted by Plutarch in Theseus 12, and Ovid in Metamorphosis vii, 402 ff. According to Herodotus vii.91, the Pelasgians also founded Thebes. Many of these Athenians may have introduced the Geometric style to Greece during the so-called Dark Ages (1200- 600 BC).
Winters (1983b) makes it clear that the Garamantes founded the Greek cities of Thrace, Minoan Crete and Attica. The Garamantes were also called Carians by the Indo-European Greeks.
The Garamantes or Carians originally lived in the Fezzan. These Garamante were described by the Latin classical writers as black or dark skinned: perusti (Lucan 4.679), furvi (Arnoloius, Adversus Nationes , 6.5) and nigri (Anthologia Latina, 155,no.183).
Some of the first African colonists to arrive in Greece came from Crete. These Cretans were called Garamantes. After the goddess Ker or Car, these people also came to be also known as the Carians. The Carians spoke a Mande languages.
A Cretan boat from Thera These people usually sailed to the Islands in Aegean and the surrounding coast were they established prosperous trading communities.
There is frequent mention of the Garamantes of the Fezzan, in Classical literature of Greece and Rome. The Garamantes were recognized as a Black tribe. They were known to the Greeks and Romans as dark skinned. In Ptolemy (I.8.5.,p.31) a Garamante slave was described as having a body the color of pitch or wholly black.
Graves (1980) and Leo Frobenius linked the Garamante to the ancient empire of Ghana (c.300 BC to A.D. 1100). Graves (1980) claims that the term Garamante is the Greek plural for Garama or Garamas. He said that the present Jarama or Jarma are the descendants of the Garamante; and that the Jarama live near the Niger river.
The Olympian creation myth, as recorded by Pindar in Fragment , and Apollonius Rhodius, makes it clear that the Garamantes early colonized Greece. Their descendants were called Carians. The Carians practiced apiculture. As in Africa the Carians practiced matrilineal descent. According to Herodotus , even up until his time the Carians took the name of their mother.
As a result, when we find mtDNA U,T,N1 and K among the Anatolians, it was just a reflection of the Blacks/Kushites that dominated Anatolia
Consequently, when we find that the Minoans carried haplogroups H (43.2%), T (18.9%), K (16.2%) and I (8.1%). Haplogroups U5a, W, J2, U, X and J were each identified in a single individual. The results correspond to the Anatolian mtDNA.
The Y-chromosomes of Cretans also indicate the Cretans were Blacks Laisel Martinez et al , Paleolithic Y-haplogroup heritage predominates in a Cretan highland plateau, Eur J Hum Genet. 2007 http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n4/full/5201769a.html provides a detailed discussion of the y-chromosomes in Crete. The presence of y-chromosomes R1b, T, K and H in Crete indicate that the Cretans were Black.
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. Martinez et al (2007), observed that In the case of the R1 haplogroup, while frequencies of 19.2% and 21.7% are found in the Heraklion Prefecture and Lasithi Prefecture populations, respectively, more than half (56.1%) of the Lasithi Plateau individuals are R1-M306-derived.
The results are not too suprising now that we have the Abusir mummies DNA.
Because few people who do genetics research study history and anthropology, they fail to realize that the skeletons dating between 950-750 BC, would represent Egyptians not Asians. This is supported by the fact that Abusir has been recognized as an early center of Egyptian civilization, and the Hyksos was a Kushite dynasty: See http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=000042
As a result, the Abusir mummies dating between 750-950 BC indicate that the so-called Eurasian haplogroups are in reality African haplogroup.
First of all, Afro-American scholars have accepted that the Egyptians were Black/African people for the past 200 years, i.e., Carter G. Woodson, W.E.B. DuBois, and J.A. Rogers, and the Senegalese scholar Anta Diop ; but, Negro Apologist : Gates, Kittles and etc, spend their time parroting the status quo line that the Egyptians were a mixed race. This same group attempt to make it appear that the Fulani, Somalis and Ethiopians are black skinned whites, because of their facial features. This is stupid, because man originated in Africa, so the physical features of these populations are African features.
The article by Schuenemann et al, 2017 on the Abusir mummies is basically a discussion of the data that support a Greco-Roman origin for Egypt. But the data on the mummies dating between 992-749 BC, can offers us keen insight into haplogroups carried by Egyptians during this time.
The genomic data from this period is important because the people of Abusir at this time would have been primarily Egyptian. As a result, the mtDNA carried by the Egyptians confirms the reality that the so-called Eurasian haplogroups are nothing more than African haplogroups.
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In Schuenemann et al, 2017, there were 100 mummies in the study. A total of 27 mummies were dated between 992-749BC. In Figure 1, you can see the clades carried by these Egyptians. Below are the frequencies of the haplogroups among Egyptians at this time:
Haplogroup Frequency U 18.5 T 22.2 J 18.5 X 0.0675 M1a 0.0675 H 0.0675 I 0.0675 HV 0.037 RO 0.037 K 0.037 N 0.037
The presence of these haplogroups among the Abusir population shows that the U,T, and J clades had a high frequency among the Egyptians, and that many of the so called Middle East clades were already present in Lower Egypt before the Greco-Romans, Turks and etc. ruled Egypt.
As a result, the finding of mtDNA U,T,J and N clades, and the Y-Chromosome R1 among, Anatolians, Cretans and Lower Egyptians explains the close relationship between the Minoans,and Anatolians. All of these people were Khas=Kusites, who had come from Upper Egypt and the Fezzan.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Some researchers love to lie and make Black populations into “white” populations. In a recent article researchers claim that the Minoans were white because the majority of Minoans were classified in haplogroups H (43.2%), T (18.9%), K (16.2%) and I (8.1%). Haplogroups U5A, W, J2, U, X and J were each identified in a single individual. As a result, if the majority of Minoans were classified in haplogroups mtDNA H (43.2%) they represent a Black population not white population, since this mtDNA is carried by the Tuareg who are Black. This dna study is just an attempt to portray the Cretans as non-Africa. The dna evidence disputes this myth, because most belong to haplogroups H and U5.
The highest concentration of U5 is found among Berbers in NWA . It is also carried by Mande and Fulani Niger-Congo speakers in West Africa (1-4).
The U5 haplogroup carried by the Mande, like other SSWA is characterized by 16189,16192,16270 and 16320. The presence of hg U5 among the Mande speakers supports the linguistic evidence concerning the Keftiu.
Pierron, et al (2013) proposes that haplogroup H entered Africa from the Middle East. Pierron et al, date the hg H older than 9k. They wrote:
quote: The dates calculated from our data are in good agreement with this theory, since we dated the appearance of H and HV0 (ex pre-V) in the Middle East around 29,000 years before the Last Glacial Maximum. These haplogroups would then have been distributed throughout Europe. At the time of the Last Glacial Maximum, between 22,000 and 18,000 years BP, the H and HV0 haplogroups sheltered in the Franco-Cantabrian zone. Then the H1, (18,160 years BP), H3 (15,671 years BP), and V (16,428 years BP) haplogroups appeared as the climate started to improve and Europe was re-colonized. The U5b haplogroup also appeared (17,963 years BP) in the same area during that period. These four haplogroups re-populated Northern Europe in the same way as the haplogroups from the Southwest shelter zone.
But the idea that hg H is the result of a back migration from Europe to Africa, does not agree with the distribution of hg H in Africa. It is clear from the map that hg H is not found in Egypt. This seems strange because if it had entered Africa as the result of a back migration there should be more carriers of hg H in Egypt. . . Badro et al (2013) published a map of African mtDNA. The map makes it clear that hg H is primarily found in Northwest and West Africa this would support the spread of hg into Europe via Iberia, rather than a back migration to Africa from the Middle East. A back migration of hg H from Iberia to Africa is unlikely. In any area of research you look for the obvious , this would be true of the origination and spread of hg H. Obviously, if hg H originated in the Middle East, it would have spread from the Levant into Egypt, since Egypt is closer to the Middle East, than Iberia.
Badro et al (2013) has examined the frequency of hg H. These researchers found the highest frequency of hg H in the Libyan Sahara (61.29), Morocco (23.4%), Libya (25.8%), Mali (52.4%) and Burkina-Faso (22.5%).If hg H originated in the Levant there should be more carriers of hg H in the Middle East and Europe, than Sub-Saharan Africa (SSA).
If hg H in Africa is the result of a back migration the highest frequencies of this genome should move from the Levant through Arabia, Egypt and East Africa into the Sahara. But this is not the case in Egypt and Kenya there is o.o% of hg H, Saudi Arabia 8.7% and Yemen 4.7%. Instead of the highest frequencies of hg H moving from the Levant into Africa, we find that the migration of hg H is reversed. The frequency of hg H, decreases from Western Europe e.g., France 45.4% to 25% in Palestine. The frequency of hg H in Eurasia and Africa, suggest that hg H originated in Africa, and probably spread into Europe from Salelian Africa to Iberia and thence the Middle East. I believe most carriers of hg H migrated to Western Europe during the African invasion of Spain by Moors and Berbers and spread across Europe into the Middle East. In summary, the presence of hg H in Europe is probably of recent origin. The Tuareg and other Black Berber groups probably helped spread H in Europe after they invaded Europe along with other sahelians/Moors during the Islamic period.
The Y-chromosomes of Cretans also indicate the Cretans were Blacks Laisel Martinez et al , Paleolithic Y-haplogroup heritage predominates in a Cretan highland plateau, Eur J Hum Genet. 2007 http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n4/full/5201769a.html provides a detailed discussion of the y-chromosomes in Crete.
The presence of y-chromosomes R1b, T, K and H in Crete indicate that the Cretans were Black.
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. Martinez et al (2007), observed that In the case of the R1 haplogroup, while frequencies of 19.2% and 21.7% are found in the Heraklion Prefecture and Lasithi Prefecture populations, respectively, more than half (56.1%) of the Lasithi Plateau individuals are R1-M306-derived.
In the case of Cretan E3b3-M123 (M34) chromosomes, they most likely signal East African or Middle-Eastern gene flow rather than European, due to the scarcity of this lineage in the latter area.19, 26 Similarly, the presence of E3b-M35* individuals in the Heraklion Prefecture population could probably be attributed to an East-African or North-African contribution.
This is interesting because researchers claim that haplotype H indicates that the Siddis, an African population in India are African because they carry haplotype H. Ramana et al (2001) claims that the discovery of H1 and H2 haplotypes among the Siddis is a “signature” of their African ancestry.
The finding that other Minoans carried haplotype T and K also indicates that the Minoans were Blacks, not whites. There are a number of shared African and Indian Y-chromosome haplotypes. These haplotypes include Y-hg T-M70 and H1. Haplogroup T-M70 is found among several Dravidian speaking tribal groups in South India, including the Yerukul (or Kurru) , Gonds and Kols. Y-haplogroup T-M70 is found in the eastern and southern regions of India (Trivedi et al, 2008). It has a relatively high frequency in Uttar Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh (Sharma et al, 2009). Sharma et al (2009) in a study of 674 Dalits found that 89.39 % belonged to Y-hg K*, in relation to Dravidian speakers it was revealed that Y-hg T-M70 was 11.1%. Trevedi et al (2008) report that Y-hg T-M70 is predominately found among Upper Caste Dravidians at a frequency of 31.9. The highest frequency of T-M70 in the World is found among the Fulani (18%) of West Africa. Martinez et al (2007) also found T-M70 and hg K in Crete see the figure above.
Ramana et al (2001) claims that the discovery of H1 and H2 haplotypes among the Siddis is a “signature” of their African ancestry. As a result, the Y-hg H1 subclade frequency among Dravidian speakers can also be considered as an indicator of an African-Cretan-Dravidian connection.
The H1 haplotype is found among many Dravidians. Sengupta et al (2006) noted that the subclades H1 and H2 were found among 26% of the Dravidian speakers in their study, especially in Tamil Nadu. Trivedi et al (2008) found the Y-hg H1 frequency of 22.2 among Dravidian speakers in their study. Sharma et al (2008) reports a frequency rate of 25.2%.
In conclusion, because the majority of Minoans were classified in mtdna haplogroups H (43.2%), the ancient Minoans were Black, not white, since the Tuareg are Blacks. The presence of y-chromosomes R1-306,R1b, T, K and H in Crete indicate that the Cretans were Black.
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References: Badro DA, Douaihy B, Haber M, Youhanna SC, Salloum A, et al. (2013) Y-Chromosome and mtDNA Genetics Reveal Significant Contrasts in Affinities of Modern Middle Eastern Populations with European and African Populations. PLoS ONE 8(1): e54616. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0054616 http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0054616
Pierron D, Chang I, Arachiche A, Heiske M, Thomas O, et al. (2011) Mutation Rate Switch inside Eurasian Mitochondrial Haplogroups: Impact of Selection and Consequences for Dating Settlement in Europe. PLoS ONE 6(6): e21543. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.002154
Ramana, G. V., Su, B., Jin, L., Singh, L., Wang, N., Underhill, P. & Chakraborty, R. (2001) Y-chromosome SNP haplotypes suggest evidence of gene flow among caste, tribe, and the migrant Siddi populations of Andhra Pradesh, South India. Eur J Hum Genet 9, 695 – 700. http://archive.is/UlNyk
Sengupta S, Zhivottovsky LA, King R, Mehdi SQ, Edmonds CA, Chow C-E T, Lin AA, Mitra M, Sil SK, Ramesh A, Rani MVU, Thakur CT, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Majumder PP, Underhill PA. (2006). Polarity and temporality of high-resolution Y-Chromosome distributions in India Identify both indigenous and exogenous expansions and reveal minor genetic influence of Central Asian Pastoralists. Am J of Hum Genet, 78 (2):202-221.
Sharma S, Rai E, Sharma P, Jena M, Singh S, Darvishi K, Bhat AK, Bhanwer AJS, Tiwari PK & Bamezai NK.(2009). The Indian origin of paternal R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system. J of Hum Genet, 54: 47-55.
Trivedi R, Sahoo S, Singh A, Bindu GH, Banerjee J, Tandon M, Gaikwad S, Rajkumar R, Sitalaximi T, Ashma R, Chainy GBN, & Kashyap VK. (2008). Genetic imprints of pleistocene origin of Indian populations: A comprehensive Phylogeographic sketch of Indian Y-Chromosomes. Int J Hum Genet, 8(1-2): 97-118 Winters,C.(2012). There has been a Continuous Indigenous Sub-Saharan Presence in North Africa for 30ky. Comment: . http://olmec98.net/ContinuousEurope.pdf
Footnotes
1. Cerný V., Hajek M., Bromova M., Cmejla R., Diallo I. & Brdicka R. 2006. MtDNA of Fulani nomads and their genetic relationships to neighboring sedentary populations. Hum. Biol., 78: 9-27.
2. Rosa A, Brehem A. 2011. African human mtDNA phylogeography at-a-glance. J. Anthropol. Sci, 89:25-58.
3. Coia V., Destro-Bisol G., Verginelli F., Battaggia C., Boschi I., Cruciani F., Spedini G., Comas D. & Calafell F. 2005. Brief communication: mtDNA variation in North Cameroon: lack of Asian lineages and implications for back migration from Asia to sub-Saharan Africa. Am. J. Phys. Anthropol., 128: 678-681.
4. Ely B., Wilson J.L., Jackson F. & Jackson B.A. 2006. African-American mitochondrial DNAs often match mtDNAs found in multiple African ethnic groups. BMC. Biol., 4: 34. .
Posted by BlessedbyHorus (Member # 22000) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ My thoughts: The above findings confirm the suprastraum theory of Indo-European migrations into Greece-- that is the actual IE speaking Proto-Greeks were themselves a small group who entered the region and spread their language and some of their culture among the predominant natives. This seems to be the prevailing theory of the spread of IE in other regions including India. By the way, the same theory may also apply to the Pre-Proto-Semitic speakers who entered the Levant from Africa.
Many people tend to identify the Mycenaeans with the early Hellenes (Greeks); however, 'Mycenaean' is a label applied to an archaeological group that was Bronze Age mainland Greece. While there is no doubt that early Hellenes were among the Mycenaean peoples, to identify the Mycenaeans as a whole as Greek is erroneous. Even the Hellenes in their ancient histories say that before the sons/tribes of Hellen spread forth there were 'Autochthones' (Aboriginal) peoples who ruled the peninsula and islands. The chief group who lived in the peninsula were a people called the Pelasgoi/Pelasgians whom the Greeks learned the art of building temples and other monuments and learned the rituals of worship. But there were other peoples mentioned like the Lapiths, Myrmidons, Minyans, Hyantes, Curetes, etc. etc.
Even the few surviving texts from the Mycenaean period written in Linear B script while in an early from of Greek show many nouns and names of places and deities having non-Greek/non-IE origin.
By the way, there were three main cultures in the Bronze Age Aegean-- the Mycenaean of mainland Greece, the Minoan of Crete, and the Cycladic of the Cycladic Islands. Are there any references to the latter??
Good post.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
We discussed Cretans already. The female parental markers were disclosed by Pontukudoulus (sp) et al. The Crete carried haplogroups found ONLY in Africans(Tunisians). This new paper probably talks again about SNP frequency.. Useless
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: We discussed Cretans already. The female parental markers were disclosed by Pontukudoulus (sp) et al. The Crete carried haplogroups found ONLY in Africans(Tunisians). This new paper probably talks again about SNP frequency.. Useless
Good point, but all of these papers are aimed at placing the origin of R1 outside Africa, and promote the Geno-Hamitic myth that all genes that are not mtDNA L, and Y-clades A and E, are the result of a back migration.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: We discussed Cretans already. The female parental markers were disclosed by Pontukudoulus (sp) et al. The Crete carried haplogroups found ONLY in Africans(Tunisians). This new paper probably talks again about SNP frequency.. Useless
Good point, but all of these papers are aimed at placing the origin of R1 outside Africa, and promote the Geno-Hamitic myth that all genes that are not mtDNA L, and Y-clades A and E, are the result of a back migration.
the ancestor of R1 and R2 is haplogroup R-M207 That existed before the split into 1 and 2
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: We discussed Cretans already. The female parental markers were disclosed by Pontukudoulus (sp) et al. The Crete carried haplogroups found ONLY in Africans(Tunisians). This new paper probably talks again about SNP frequency.. Useless
Good point, but all of these papers are aimed at placing the origin of R1 outside Africa, and promote the Geno-Hamitic myth that all genes that are not mtDNA L, and Y-clades A and E, are the result of a back migration.
the ancestor of R1 and R2 is haplogroup R-M207 That existed before the split into 1 and 2
Y-DNA Haplogroup R and its Subclades - 2010: M207/UTY2, P224, P227, P229, P232, P280, P285, S4, S8, S9, V45
This explains why we find both R1a and R1b in Chad-Cameroon.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: We discussed Cretans already. The female parental markers were disclosed by Pontukudoulus (sp) et al. The Crete carried haplogroups found ONLY in Africans(Tunisians). This new paper probably talks again about SNP frequency.. Useless
Good point, but all of these papers are aimed at placing the origin of R1 outside Africa, and promote the Geno-Hamitic myth that all genes that are not mtDNA L, and Y-clades A and E, are the result of a back migration.
the ancestor of R1 and R2 is haplogroup R-M207 That existed before the split into 1 and 2
Y-DNA Haplogroup R and its Subclades - 2010: M207/UTY2, P224, P227, P229, P232, P280, P285, S4, S8, S9, V45
This explains why we find both R1a and R1b in Chad-Cameroon.
Obviously just because a halplogroup is found in Africa does not mean it originates there
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Lioness, don't even bother. I gave up on the fools a long time ago.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
DJ the fagot
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
So they are admitting Europeans are "depigmented" Africans!!!! So they are mimicking xyyman. They are admitting depigmentation took place recently even AFTER the Bronze Age. How is that for mis-interpretation...fag.
Quotes: Phenotypic inference for individuals HIrisPlex1 allows inference of pigmentation (hair, eye, and skin) phenotypes in humans, but it relies on specifying the genotypes of individuals at a panel of SNPs. Since we do not have diploid genotypes for our low coverage ancient data we cannot use it directly to infer phenotypes in the ancient samples.
While our inferences on ancient phenotypes are conditional on the availability of samples and their low coverage, they do seem to mirror the phenotypes depicted in visual art from the Aegean Bronze Age14 and to suggest their relative stability in the region, in contrast to other parts of Europe where depigmentation seems to have occurred since the Bronze Age6 or even more recently15 .
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
So...Lioness I hope you admit I am correct. Europeans are depigmented Africans.
discussed already - A European population in Minoan Bronze Age Crete. Hughey JR1, M, Stamatoyannopoulos JA, Stamatoyannopoulos G.
Posted by Autshumato (Member # 22722) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: So...Lioness I hope you admit I am correct. Europeans are depigmented Africans.
discussed already - A European population in Minoan Bronze Age Crete. Hughey JR1, M, Stamatoyannopoulos JA, Stamatoyannopoulos G.
"Depigmented Africans"? It's either Albinism or some other skin disease/s.
Posted by BlessedbyHorus (Member # 22000) on :
/Mod
@Xxyman and @clyde Winters
No need for spamming the thread.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [q] Just read some of the supplementals? Are these people for real. Ha! Ha! Ha! Aha! Aha! Aha! Are they kidding me?! Clyde is correct...
Lioness?? Here are more that I like. He! He! [/qb]
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: It is the same result as the Sardinia bronze age study. GTFOH!!!
Unique haplotypes found only among ancient Crete and North Africans. Not found in mainland Europe. Same as Bronze age Sardinians.
HAAAAA! HAAAA!
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Sensation al claims?…..more feel good headliners to give Europeans that warm and fuzzy feeling that Europe belongs to them and they are somehow part of those great ancient civilization. Talk about the need to be pampered and psychosis. That is what a deficiency of melanin does.
========
By George Stamatoyannopoulos et al, the Greek crew.
Introduction Since its inception in 1984 the use of ancient DNA in addressing biological questions has led to the genetic characterization of species and populations from all major biological lineages [1,2]. The discipline, molecular archaeology, did not however immediately flourish without debate. Its inauguration was led by a series of sensational claims, many of which were invalidated [3]. Despite its dubious beginning, the discipline now operates under strict
Conclusion: Our results do not allow us to draw any definite conclusions about the frequency of β thalassemias in the Minoans. ( Because we did not find any.)
On the average, 64% of the β thalassemias in the Greek population are due to mutations at IVS-1 [20].
In the modern Cretan population, four mutations at IVS-1, IVS-6, IVS-110, and IVS-116 account for 63% of all β thalassemia mutations [21].
Presumably high frequencies of IVS-1 mutations were characteristic of the ancient Mediterranean and Anatolian populations.
The average frequency of heterozygous β thalassemia in the modern Cretan population is 7.6% [29]
If that were also the frequency among the Minoans, we would expect to find one IVS-1 mutation among the 24 Minoans we sequenced, and we found none. (SAD FACE).
@TP. (rhetorical) Can you use HAPMAP to isolate this..” In the modern Cretan population, four mutations at IVS-1, IVS-6, IVS-110, and IVS-116 account for 63% of all β thalassemia mutations [21]”?
It seems like the modern Creteans are dis-similar to mainland Greeks. They are more admixed. Modern Greeks carry the IVS-1 but Creteans carry also IVS-6, IVS-110 and IVS-116.
I really need to focus in learning to use HAPMAP. [/q]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by xyyman: [q] Read!!! Note. It says "Otherssss....clearly negroid"
Crete is also an extension of North Africa. SSA(dark) and Saharans(red). []
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] So...Lioness I hope you admit I am correct. Europeans are depigmented Africans.
Of course everybody knows that
but that's like saying Europeans and Chinese are both Eurasians. That is kind of broad. Africans are the most diverse population in the world so some parts of Africa can be as different from each other as Italy is from China
So, if you come out and say "Europeans are depigmented Africans respect me, I'm your daddy" they might say they are descendants of Chad basin males and Libyan Tuareg females, R and H carriers respectively so you are not the daddy. You have to think ahead
^ yes, look at where Europeans are on this chart
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: So...Lioness I hope you admit I am correct. Europeans are depigmented Africans.
discussed already - A European population in Minoan Bronze Age Crete. Hughey JR1, M, Stamatoyannopoulos JA, Stamatoyannopoulos G.
"Depigmented Africans"? It's either Albinism or some other skin disease/s.
If multi-millions of light skin people exist that means they have been naturally selected to be that way in that environment
In other words in one environment a person with six fingers would be considered to be having a birth "defect" Yet if a population migrated into some other place and six fingered people came to be thriving large group of people then it would no longer be considered a "defect" That is relative
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [q] Read!!! Note. It says "Otherssss....clearly negroid"
Crete is also an extension of North Africa. SSA(dark) and Saharans(red). [/qb][] [/QB]
^^ This is "CLEARLY NEGROID FEATURES" ???? was the author drunk when he wrote this?
Fisherman fresco from Thera on Santorini, Minoan bronze age culture
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
Cacausoids were always in Africa. ...Europeans entered Africa relatively recently.
.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^ This is "CLEARLY NEGROID FEATURES" ???? was the author drunk when he wrote this?
Again, Lioness why bother?
Also, the author's reference to "negroid" features specified the steatopygia and protrubant belly of the figure not the face. Unless you want to degenerate the thread even further about "negroid" facial features.
What about these Minoans?
^ Is this boy's face "negroid" enough? LOL Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Is this boy's face "negroid" enough? LOL [/QB]
The Boxers Fresco from Bronze Age Akrotiri on the island of Thera (Santorini), c. 1700 BCE. (National Archaeological Museum, Athens)
can't say much about this one ^^ the whole profile is missing and a modern artist speculated one and drew in a restoration, the portion not raised and with no cracks ( it's done that was to differentiate new from original) Also most of the chest is like that, guessed
The other figure:
A similar flat color filled in ^^ no cracks flat portion here at the bottom
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
QUOTE!!!!! " Fragments of others with a more swarthy skin colour" and "and prognathism displayed by some of these are clearly Negroid" WTF can't you understand about that? Sorry Lioness we know who you are but that just pisses me off.
he cannot read. He finally came out. You never had me fooled...DJ. With your double meaning to your post. I can sniff pussies like you out without being next to you.
Admin: One more strike and banning is next.
[ 04. August 2017, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Punos_Rey ]
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: /Mod
@Xxyman and @clyde Winters
No need for spamming the thread.
What do you consider spamming?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: QUOTE!!!!! " Fragments of others with a more swarthy skin colour" and "and prognathism displayed by some of these are clearly Negriod" WTF can't you understand about that. Sorry Lioness we know who you are but that fag just pisses me off.
Not only is he a fag brown-noser but he cannot read. He finally came out. You never had me fooled...DJ. With your double meaning to your post. I can sniff pussies like you out without being next to you.
It is not advisable to be talking like that in the forum
Anyway if you are saying Europeans are depigmented Africans then they are not depigmented "negro" Africans
It doesn't matter what this old books says, look at the original art - the original portions
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Surprisingly no yDNA E1b1b* was not found when the marker (E1b1b-V13?) is found in 25% of Greeks. And it entered "Europe" in the late Neolithic. But then again look at who is the big dog in this paper. Mr Steppes himself, Reich! Understand the politics and you will not be fooled by lying Europeans. They probably which they can undo all they told us in the last 5-10 years.
I am with Dr Winters. The conspiracy is getting wider. How can E-V-13 be found in >25% of modern Greeks and be lost in Greeks 3000BC. It is impossible!!!
They seems to forget the "NUMEROUS" "Negroid" depiction in ancient Greece. Unless they were carriers of yDNA J2 and J1. lol! It comes full circle.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
I never said depigmented Negros. I said depigmented Africans. Berbers are Africans may be more than many south of the Sahara. Except of the San and Pygmies, Berbers may be the oldest Africans. Rememeber the carry yDNA A, E1b1b and some of the oldest linage age including mtDNA L. Not to mention H and U. Archaeological it looks like North Africa was occupied by AMH since 100,000years ago. Sources cited.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Knossos, House of Frescoes, 1350-1300 B.C
what's actually there
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Can someone post images of the many blacks found in Grecee to shut the Lioness down with his picture spamming?
May be the new study is suggesting the "Eurasian markers' came from the "Negroids" living in Greece. lol!
Europeans are really delusional and twisted.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Can someone post images of the many blacks found in Grecee to shut the Lioness down with his picture spamming?
what's many 20 or 30 ? how would you do historical demographics by such a selection?
and what were they doing there?
have you forgotten, you are the one who started posting the pictures
go look in mena's Black Romans and Greeks thread, see what u can dig up
Posted by Punos_Rey (Member # 21929) on :
Xyyman. One more time.
I'm done with suspensions, if you can't dialogue without calling people some iteration of f** you'll be shown the door.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Originally posted by xyyman: QUOTE!!!!! " Fragments of others with a more swarthy skin colour" and "and prognathism displayed by some of these are clearly Negriod" WTF can't you understand about that. Sorry Lioness we know who you are but that fag just pisses me off.
Not only is he a fag brown-noser but he cannot read. He finally came out. You never had me fooled...DJ. With your double meaning to your post. I can sniff pussies like you out without being next to you.
Originally posted by Djehuti Lioness, don't even bother. I gave up on the fools a long time ago.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Punos_Rey: Xyyman. One more time.
I'm done with suspensions, if you can't dialogue without calling people some iteration of f** you'll be shown the door.
It is interesting that you discipline Afrocentric researchers, while you say nothing to the Euronuts. It is beginning to appear that you are a mole.
I taught for over 40 years. You remind me of teachers who establish rules that force them to do stupid things. Maybe you should reevaluate your rules.
This is an adult site, the use of profanity should not lead to banning. If you ban someone because of the use of profanity on an adult site suggest that you are motivated by other reasons. Are you really trying to destroy this site because you know that once Namerthoth, mike111, xyyman and others stop posting this site is dead.
Here it is I thought lioness was the plant. But are you reallv the plant--? Your behavior suggest you are out to destroy ES
You tell me not to spam, while lioness posted many pictures. on this site you can post as many as seven photos. Why are you trying to destroy ES?
Posted by Punos_Rey (Member # 21929) on :
I've actually banned several euronuts.
Nice try though. If you have any further critiques of my discipline or how you perceive it feel free to message me, thanks.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Punos_Rey: Xyyman. One more time.
I'm done with suspensions, if you can't dialogue without calling people some iteration of f** you'll be shown the door. [/qb]
It is interesting that you discipline Afrocentric researchers, while you say nothing to the Euronuts. It is beginning to appear that you are a mole.
I taught for over 40 years. You remind me of teachers who establish rules that force them to do stupid things. Maybe you should reevaluate your rules.
So you think in a university debate calling somebody a fag would be permitted?
That has no value whatsoever and degrades the dialogue
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
You tell me not to spam, while lioness posted many pictures. on this site you can post as many as seven photos. Why are you trying to destroy ES? [/qb]
you often use the forum to promote your own work. And you post much more repetitively than I do. You are obviously trying to spread your name and theories on the web as much as possible through repetition. Having your own blog and youtube is not enough. You take advantage to promote your own work, it's excessive
Admin: Let this be the last digression from the actual topic of this thread. Dr. Winters can message me if he wishes to further this discussion.
[ 04. August 2017, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: Punos_Rey ]
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
can't say much about this one ^^ the whole profile is missing and a modern artist speculated one and drew in a restoration, the portion not raised and with no cracks ( it's done that was to differentiate new from original) Also most of the chest is like that, guessed
The Cretan boy's profile is strikingly similar to many Egyptians like the herder below.
This is why I think Africans were present among the populations of ancient Crete. They may not have been a major presence as to constitute a major ethnicity but they were still present. Also, the Greek writings going back to Homer say that during the time of the Trojan War there were several nations or ethnicities in Crete besides the Eteo-Cretans (True Cretans) though non were described as Libyan (African).
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
^
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [Q] Surprisingly no yDNA E1b1b* was not found when the marker (E1b1b-V13?) is found in 25% of Greeks. And it entered "Europe" in the late Neolithic. But then again look at who is the big dog in this paper. Mr Steppes himself, Reich! Understand the politics and you will not be fooled by lying Europeans. They probably which they can undo all they told us in the last 5-10 years.
I am with Dr Winters. The conspiracy is getting wider. How can E-V-13 be found in >25% of modern Greeks and be lost in Greeks 3000BC. It is impossible!!!
They seems to forget the "NUMEROUS" "Negroid" depiction in ancient Greece. Unless they were carriers of yDNA J2 and J1. lol! It comes full circle. [/QB]
Posted by Mansamusa (Member # 22474) on :
quote:Originally posted by Punos_Rey: I've actually banned several euronuts.
Nice try though. If you have any further critiques of my discipline or how you perceive it feel free to message me, thanks.
Punos, I hope you are not using your position as moderator to settle old scores with xxyyman. You never liked him even before you became moderator. This place after getting new moderators is beginning to look more and more like Animal Farm. Chill out!
Admin: despite my personal feelings towards him I have given him way more latitude than I have people I suspected of outright trolling who I banned on the spot. It's a nice way to deflect from the main point being that he can discuss his points without calling people f*** just like every poster in this very thread except him. Again, if you wish to discuss the way I admin you can pm directly. Further diversions will be deleted.
[ 05. August 2017, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Punos_Rey ]
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: DJ the fagot
People's sexual orientation has nothing to do with the subject, nor does is add anything relevant to this discourse.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: QUOTE!!!!! " Fragments of others with a more swarthy skin colour" and "and prognathism displayed by some of these are clearly Negriod" WTF can't you understand about that. Sorry Lioness we know who you are but that fag just pisses me off.
Not only is he a fag brown-noser but he cannot read. He finally came out. You never had me fooled...DJ. With your double meaning to your post. I can sniff pussies like you out without being next to you.
It is not advisable to be talking like that in the forum
Anyway if you are saying Europeans are depigmented Africans then they are not depigmented "negro" Africans
It doesn't matter what this old books says, look at the original art - the original portions
If you go by "your" stereotype "negro" Africans than yeah, but…
And I doubt this following represents a modern Greek.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Is this boy's face "negroid" enough? LOL
The Boxers Fresco from Bronze Age Akrotiri on the island of Thera (Santorini), c. 1700 BCE. (National Archaeological Museum, Athens)
can't say much about this one ^^ the whole profile is missing and a modern artist speculated one and drew in a restoration, the portion not raised and with no cracks ( it's done that was to differentiate new from original) Also most of the chest is like that, guessed
The other figure:
A similar flat color filled in ^^ no cracks flat portion here at the bottom [/QB]
You've always have been the creative type when it came to outlining profiles. What happened?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
original
restored version
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
The Greeks really do have near-mythical origins, ancient DNA reveals By Ann GibbonsAug. 2, 2017 , 1:00 PM
Ever since the days of Homer, Greeks have long idealized their Mycenaean “ancestors” in epic poems and classic tragedies that glorify the exploits of Odysseus, King Agamemnon, and other heroes who went in and out of favor with the Greek gods. Although these Mycenaeans were fictitious, scholars have debated whether today’s Greeks descend from the actual Mycenaeans, who created a famous civilization that dominated mainland Greece and the Aegean Sea from about 1600 B.C.E. to 1200 B.C.E., or whether the ancient Mycenaeans simply vanished from the region.
Now, ancient DNA suggests that living Greeks are indeed the descendants of Mycenaeans, with only a small proportion of DNA from later migrations to Greece. And the Mycenaeans themselves were closely related to the earlier Minoans, the study reveals, another great civilization that flourished on the island of Crete from 2600 B.C.E. to 1400 B.C.E. (named for the mythical King Minos).
The ancient DNA comes from the teeth of 19 people, including 10 Minoans from Crete dating to 2900 B.C.E. to 1700 BCE, four Mycenaeans from the archaeological site at Mycenae and other cemeteries on the Greek mainland dating from 1700 B.C.E. to 1200 B.C.E., and five people from other early farming or Bronze Age (5400 B.C.E. to 1340 B.C.E.) cultures in Greece and Turkey. By comparing 1.2 million letters of genetic code across these genomes to those of 334 other ancient people from around the world and 30 modern Greeks, the researchers were able to plot how the individuals were related to each other.
The ancient Mycenaeans and Minoans were most closely related to each other, and they both got three-quarters of their DNA from early farmers who lived in Greece and southwestern Anatolia, which is now part of Turkey, the team reports today in Nature. Both cultures additionally inherited DNA from people from the eastern Caucasus, near modern-day Iran, suggesting an early migration of people from the east after the early farmers settled there but before Mycenaeans split from Minoans.
The Mycenaeans did have an important difference: They had some DNA—4% to 16%—from northern ancestors who came from Eastern Europe or Siberia. This suggests that a second wave of people from the Eurasian steppe came to mainland Greece by way of Eastern Europe or Armenia, but didn’t reach Crete, says Iosif Lazaridis, a population geneticist at Harvard University who co-led the study.
Not surprisingly, the Minoans and Mycenaeans looked alike, both carrying genes for brown hair and brown eyes. Artists in both cultures painted dark-haired, dark-eyed people on frescoes and pottery who resemble each other, although the two cultures spoke and wrote different languages. The Mycenaeans were more militaristic, with art replete with spears and images of war, whereas Minoan art showed few signs of warfare, Lazaridis says. Because the Minoans script used hieroglyphics, some archaeologists thought they were partly Egyptian, which turns out to be false.
The continuity between the Mycenaeans and living people is “particularly striking given that the Aegean has been a crossroads of civilizations for thousands of years,” says co-author George Stamatoyannopoulos of the University of Washington in Seattle. This suggests that the major components of the Greeks’ ancestry were already in place in the Bronze Age, after the migration of the earliest farmers from Anatolia set the template for the genetic makeup of Greeks and, in fact, most Europeans. “The spread of farming populations was the decisive moment when the major elements of the Greek population were already provided,” says archaeologist Colin Renfrew of the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom, who was not involved in the work.
The results also show it is possible to get ancient DNA from the hot, dry landscape of the eastern Mediterranean, Renfrew says. He and others now have hope for getting DNA from groups such as the mysterious Hittites who came to ancient Anatolia sometime before 2000 B.C.E. and who may have been the source of Caucasian ancestry in Mycenaeans and early Indo-European languages in the region. Archaeologist Kristian Kristiansen of the University of Gothenburg in Sweden, who was not involved in the work, agrees. “The results have now opened up the next chapter in the genetic history of western Eurasia—that of the Bronze Age Mediterranean.”
_____________________________________
Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans Iosif Lazaridis, 2017
The eastern influence in the Bronze Age populations from Greece and southwestern Anatolia is also supported by an analysis of their Y chromosomes. Four out of five males belonging to Minoans, Mycenaeans, and southwestern Anatolians (Supplementary Information section 3) belonged to haplogroup J, which was rare or non-existent in earlier populations from Greece and western Anatolia who were dominated by Y-chromosome haplogroup G2 (refs 1, 2, 17). Haplogroup J was present in Caucasus hunter–gatherers3 and a Mesolithic individual from Iran4, and its spread westwards may have accompanied the ‘eastern’ genome- wide influence. Posted by Autshumato (Member # 22722) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: So...Lioness I hope you admit I am correct. Europeans are depigmented Africans.
discussed already - A European population in Minoan Bronze Age Crete. Hughey JR1, M, Stamatoyannopoulos JA, Stamatoyannopoulos G.
"Depigmented Africans"? It's either Albinism or some other skin disease/s.
If multi-millions of light skin people exist that means they have been naturally selected to be that way in that environment
In other words in one environment a person with six fingers would be considered to be having a birth "defect" Yet if a population migrated into some other place and six fingered people came to be thriving large group of people then it would no longer be considered a "defect" That is relative
"Multi-millions" of "light skin" people exist not because of NATURAL SELECTION but because of the propaganda "whites" have spread like a disease across the Earth. In a NATURAL environment, they'd all die of cancers.
Posted by Autshumato (Member # 22722) on :
No such thing as "Negroid". Negro is Spanish for black. Let's stop using Spanish words in the English language. So Lioness, what do you understand or don't understand when someone says "African"? You seem like a very confused individual, you think "Africans" all have the same phenotype like some inbred ***, we don't.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: original
restored version
Since when are you so critical about restorations? Are you now doubting their restoration skills?
Perhaps they based the restored one on the opposite character?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: No such thing as "Negroid". Negro is Spanish for black. Let's stop using Spanish words in the English language. So Lioness, what do you understand or don't understand when someone says "African"? You seem like a very confused individual, you think "Africans" all have the same phenotype like some inbred ***, we don't.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: So...Lioness I hope you admit I am correct. Europeans are depigmented Africans.
discussed already - A European population in Minoan Bronze Age Crete. Hughey JR1, M, Stamatoyannopoulos JA, Stamatoyannopoulos G.
"Depigmented Africans"? It's either Albinism or some other skin disease/s.
If multi-millions of light skin people exist that means they have been naturally selected to be that way in that environment
In other words in one environment a person with six fingers would be considered to be having a birth "defect" Yet if a population migrated into some other place and six fingered people came to be thriving large group of people then it would no longer be considered a "defect" That is relative
"Multi-millions" of "light skin" people exist not because of NATURAL SELECTION but because of the propaganda "whites" have spread like a disease across the Earth. In a NATURAL environment, they'd all die of cancers.
None of that is true light skinned Europeans and East Asians have had such skin for several thousand years at minimum. The fact that multi millions of them now exist attests to that. They don't live in some protective dome. In this regard the modern environment is not different from the ancient one in this regard
you can see right down to the pink here, the blood showing through the skin
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: No such thing as "Negroid". Negro is Spanish for black. Let's stop using Spanish words in the English language. So Lioness, what do you understand or don't understand when someone says "African"? You seem like a very confused individual, you think "Africans" all have the same phenotype like some inbred ***, we don't.
tell xyyman about it, he introduced the word into the thread
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: No such thing as "Negroid". Negro is Spanish for black. Let's stop using Spanish words in the English language. So Lioness, what do you understand or don't understand when someone says "African"? You seem like a very confused individual, you think "Africans" all have the same phenotype like some inbred ***, we don't.
If he was talking about Africans why are you putting up a picture of a Minoan ?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: No such thing as "Negroid". Negro is Spanish for black. Let's stop using Spanish words in the English language. So Lioness, what do you understand or don't understand when someone says "African"? You seem like a very confused individual, you think "Africans" all have the same phenotype like some inbred ***, we don't.
If the topic is Minoans why are you putting up photos of Africans?
And why are you ignoring the topic article information?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: No such thing as "Negroid". Negro is Spanish for black. Let's stop using Spanish words in the English language. So Lioness, what do you understand or don't understand when someone says "African"? You seem like a very confused individual, you think "Africans" all have the same phenotype like some inbred ***, we don't.
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: No such thing as "Negroid". Negro is Spanish for black. Let's stop using Spanish words in the English language. So Lioness, what do you understand or don't understand when someone says "African"? You seem like a very confused individual, you think "Africans" all have the same phenotype like some inbred ***, we don't.
"Precisie restauratie" Late bronstijd (LBA) Laat Minoïsche ik (LM ik) periode Laat Cycladische ik (LC ik) periode Geschilderd ergens vóór ~ 1613 BC Akrotiri, Thera (Santorini), Griekenland
"Precisie restauratie" Late bronstijd (LBA) Laat Minoïsche ik (LM ik) periode Laat Cycladische ik (LC ik) periode Geschilderd ergens vóór ~ 1613 BC Akrotiri, Thera (Santorini), Griekenland
Town with boats in the harbour. Minoan fresco image from Akrotiri on the Greek island of Thera (now Santorini), c. 1600 BCE.
Description Akrotiri-Thera fresco fragment, exposed at the National Archaeological Museum of Athens.
Date 16th century BC
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
The argument here is, could it be a possibility that Minoans were of African origin, extraction / heritage.
you say it " could it be a possibility" now but you don't say that when you post the pictures as if it is a proven match. Do you think only Africans have brown or tanned brown skin?
why not deal with the article info instead of us continuing tired pictures wars like old threads which xyyman started with pictures and quotes form old obsolete books about what the author thinks are "Negroid features"
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: According to this study. A key part.
quote:The ancient Mycenaeans and Minoans were most closely related to each other, and they both got three-quarters of their DNA from early farmers who lived in Greece and southwestern Anatolia, which is now part of Turkey, the team reports today in Nature. Both cultures additionally inherited DNA from people from the eastern Caucasus, near modern-day Iran, suggesting an early migration of people from the east after the early farmers settled there but before Mycenaeans split from Minoans.
The Mycenaeans did have an important difference: They had some DNA—4% to 16%—from northern ancestors who came from Eastern Europe or Siberia. This suggests that a second wave of people from the Eurasian steppe came to mainland Greece by way of Eastern Europe or Armenia, but didn’t reach Crete, says Iosif Lazaridis, a population geneticist at Harvard University who co-led the study.
G2a2b2a (G-P303) Main article: Haplogroup G-P303 G-P303*, also known as G2a2b2a* (previously G2a3b1*), and its subclades are now concentrated in southern Russia and the Caucasus, as well as, at lower levels, other parts of Europe and South West Asia, especially an area including Turkey, Iran and the Middle East where G2a2b2a may have originated. G2a2b2a is also found in India.
A majority of members of G-P303 belong to one of its subclades, rather than to G-P303*
The largest G-P303* subclade based on available samples is one in which almost all persons have the value of 13 at STR marker DYS388. The SNP L497 encompasses these men, but most G-L497 men belong to its subclade G-Z725, also known as G-DYS388=13. There are additional subclades of DYS388=13 men characterized by the presence of specific SNPs or uncommon STR marker oddities. Members of this group have been found in Europe and the Middle East.[32]
The next largest subclade of G-P303 is characterized by the presence of the U1 mutation. But a high percentage of U1 men belong to its two subclades, G-L13/S13 and Z1266 (G2a3b1a1b). The G-L13 subclade is most common in north central Europe, and G-Z1266 is most common in the western Caucasus Mountains.
The final major subclade is characterized by presence of the SNP Z1903 and by a value of 9 at marker DYS568. A high percentage of G-Z1903 men belong to its subclade, G-Z724. The subclade G-Z724 contains a further large subclade consisting overwhelmingly of Ashkenazi Jews.
The highest percentage of G-P303 persons in a discrete population so far described is on the island of Ibiza off the eastern Spanish coast. This group has been linked with the Crypto-Jewish population which fled to the island during the time of the Spanish Inquisition, of which a significant portion are identifiable as G-Z725 (DYS388=13).
[32] Distinguishing the co-ancestries of haplogroup G Y-chromosomes in the populations of Europe and the Caucasus
J2a1-M47 is found at low frequency (1-5%) in Anatolia, Georgia, Iran, Iraq and Gulf states. J2a1-M67 is the most common subclade in the Caucasus (Vainakhs, Ingushs, Chechens, Georgians, Ossetians, Balkars) and in the Levant (Lebanese, Jews). It is also common in western India, the Arabian Peninsula, Anatolia (esp. north-west), Greece (esp. Crete), Italy (esp. Marche and Abruzzo) and Iberia. M67 was probably a major Bronze Age lineage expanding from the Caucasus to Greece to the west and the Indus valley to the east. J2a1-M68 is a minor subclade found in Iraq and India. J2a1-M319 has been found chiefly in Greece (esp. in Crete) and Italy, and at low frequencies around Western Europe (perhaps diffused by the Romans). J2a1-M339 is a very minor Anatolian subclade. J2a1-M419 is a minor subclade detected in northern Iran. J2a1-P81 is a very minor Anatolian subclade. J2a1-L24 is the most widespread subclade of J2a, with a distribution ranging from the Middle East to Europe, North Africa and South Asia. J2a1-M158 has been found in Anatolia, Iberia, Pakistan and India. J2a1-L84 is a minor subclade detected in the Balkans. J2a1-L25 is the main branch of L24 and is subdivided in many subclades. J2a1-F3133 is found in Anatolia, Syria, Iran, Central Asia and Saudi Arabia. J2a1-F761 is the Western European subclade of F3133, found in Italy, France, the Benelux and England. J2a1-L192.2 is found in Anatolia, Iran and Kerala (India). It has also been found in Tunisia (M'saken). J2a1-PF4888 is found in the Middle East and among Ashkenazi Jews (F659 subclade: Katz and Cohen). J2a1-Z387 and its main subclade L70 (DYS445≤7) are found throughout continental Europe as well as in the Middle East at lower frequency. J2a1-PF5169 is a rare subclade that has been found in Saudi Arabia, Switzerland, southern Germany and England
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
The argument here is, could it be a possibility that Minoans were of African origin, extraction / heritage.
you say it " could it be a possibility" now but you don't say that when you post the pictures as if it is a proven match. Do you think only Africans have brown or tanned brown skin?
why not deal with the article info instead of us continuing tired pictures wars like old threads which xyyman started with pictures and quotes about "Negroid features"
Your argument is to deflect. But it doesn't help you at all. I asked why modern Greeks don't look like the images I have posted. That was the score question.
But yeah, the Y-DNA certainly looks interesting, certainly in comparison to mt-DNA.
Supplementary Information 4
Phenotypic inference
We determined the alleles carried by the ancient individuals in 22 of the 24 HIrisPlex1 SNPs (except rs86insA and Y152OCH that were not captured). We also examined the rs1426654 SNP in SLC24A52 which is a major determinant of skin color in present-day people (and which is not included in the HIrisPlex panel). The results are reported in Table S4.1.
Samples that provided working ancient DNA • Salamis31 (I9006): 1411 – 1262 calBCE (DEM-2905 (MAMS-25209), 3067 ± 25 bp). Child from Tomb 7, North side, group 34. • Galatas4 (I9041): Male without an osteological age estimate, LH IIB to LH IIIC (15th to early 12th century BCE). • Galatas19 (I9010): Female without an osteological age estimate, LH IIB to LH IIIC (15th to early 12th century BCE)
Samples • Lasithi4 (I0071): Female without an osteological age estimate, 2400-1700 BCE. • Lasithi2 (I0070): Male without an osteological age estimate, 2400-1700 BCE. • Lasithi7 (I0073): Male without an osteological age estimate, 2400-1700 BCE. • Lasithi9 (I0074): Female without an osteological age estimate, 2400-1700 BCE. • Lasithi17 (I9005): Female without an osteological age estimate, 2400-1700 BCE.
Sample that provided working ancient DNA • A2197 (I2937): Female without an osteological age estimate (5419±41 cal BC or 6441±38 BP based on context)
Samples • A4-1 (I2495): 2558 – 2295 calBCE (Poz-81111, 3925 ± 35 bp). Male. Estimated age at death is 7 years (± 2 years). Macroscopic observation of the mandibular incisors indicate a moderate level of enamel hypoplasia.
• U1c (I2499): 2836 – 2472 calBCE (Poz-82213, 4040 ± 35 bp). Female. Estimated age at death is ca. 13-14 years. The bones of this adolescent female were found in a large jar together with the skeletal remains of two adults.
The latter were identified as a middle- aged female and an adult male. As the adolescent was lying on top of the other two, she had probably been the last individual buried in the jar. She lay in a flexed position on her right side. Three jugs accompanied the small group of deceased (see Fig. S1.9).
• G3-95 (I2683): Female, 2500-1800 BCE. Estimated age at death is 5 years (+-16 months). Fragmentary remains of the child were found in a badly disturbed jar (1).
The next step here is to find out whether they have filtered out certain data, which seems to be one of Iosif Lazaridis favorite template when putting forward data.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The subclade G-Z724 contains a further large subclade consisting overwhelmingly of Ashkenazi Jews
Hmmm, interesting.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The subclade G-Z724 contains a further large subclade consisting overwhelmingly of Ashkenazi Jews
Hmmm, interesting.
There were several regions mentioned why would Ashkenazi Jews be more interesting?
Do you have some conspiracy in mind?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The subclade G-Z724 contains a further large subclade consisting overwhelmingly of Ashkenazi Jews
Hmmm, interesting.
There were several regions mentioned why would Ashkenazi Jews be more interesting?
Do you have some conspiracy in mind?
No not a conspiracy, more like a filter.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: No not a conspiracy, more like a filter. [/QB]
what do you mean filter?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: No not a conspiracy, more like a filter.
what do you mean filter?
3 : something that has the effect of a filter (as by holding back elements or modifying the appearance of something)
In other words the nitty gritty.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb]
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: No not a conspiracy, more like a filter.
what do you mean filter?
3 : something that has the effect of a filter (as by holding back elements or modifying the appearance of something)
explain how that applies to anthropology, nobody use such a term in talking about human populations
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: No not a conspiracy, more like a filter.
what do you mean filter?
3 : something that has the effect of a filter (as by holding back elements or modifying the appearance of something)
explain how that applies to anthropology, nobody use such a term in talking about human populations
How it is applied is how I used it, it is plain ENGLISH. And yeah, the term filter is being used in anthropology. This just proved that you have nothing to do with the field of anthropology. It is also commonly used in genetics.
Anyway, I'll keep the best for last. Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
so you were BS-ing?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: so you were BS-ing?
Nope, it was just explained. But I do see the BS, by filter-ing.
Btw, you never responded to my question, all you did was BS-ing.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Those white figures sure do look out of place,I wonder how anyone thought they were real.
Posted by Autshumato (Member # 22722) on :
Lol! All whites do live in a very protective environment which is totally different from the "ancient environment". Plus skin bleachers are a normal part of life today in many places, Asians love it. They ALL have this defensive mechanism called "racism" to protect themselves from normal people around them. The fact that there are multi-millions is proof of their genocidal way and skin bleaching. POINT.
Posted by Autshumato (Member # 22722) on :
By now we all should know that this Lioness person is NOT a Black woman.
Posted by Elite Diasporan (Member # 22000) on :
EVERYONE. Back on topic or this thread is getting locked.
Posted by Autshumato (Member # 22722) on :
The modern day Greeks has little to nothing to do with the ancient once. Am I right? Interestingly, the Island of Spinalonga, was a leper colony. Could that be the origins of modern day Greeks?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: [QB] Lol! All whites do live in a very protective environment which is totally different from the "ancient environment".
what are you talking about?
Posted by Autshumato (Member # 22722) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: [QB] Lol! All whites do live in a very protective environment which is totally different from the "ancient environment".
what are you talking about?
Sunscreen, stay indoors, etc.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: [QB] Lol! All whites do live in a very protective environment which is totally different from the "ancient environment".
what are you talking about?
Sunscreen, stay indoors, etc.
Did you know that less than a hundred years ago there was no sunscreen and white people went outdoors?
Posted by Autshumato (Member # 22722) on :
There were other means, like totally covered body, hats, long sleeves etc.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: Lol! All whites do live in a very protective environment which is totally different from the "ancient environment".
what are you talking about?
Sunscreen, stay indoors, etc.
Did you know that less than a hundred years ago there was no sunscreen and white people went outdoors?
Did you know less than a hundred years ago there was no statistical analysis to see how white people did without sunscreen when they went outdoors.
However,
quote: Methods
We used data from the Connecticut Tumor Registry, the original National Cancer Institute SEER site, to determine trends in invasive melanoma (1950-2007), in situ melanoma (1973-2007), tumor thickness (1993-2007), mortality (1950-2007), and mortality to incidence (1950-2007) among the 19,973 and 3,635 Connecticut residents diagnosed with invasive melanoma (1950-2007) and who died as a result of melanoma (1950-2007), respectively. Main outcome measures included trends in incidence and mortality by age, sex, and birth cohort.
Results
In the initial period (1950-1954), a diagnosis of invasive melanoma was rare, with 1.9 patient cases per 100,000 for men and 2.6 patient cases per 100,000 for women. Between 1950 and 2007, overall incidence rates rose more than 17-fold in men (1.9 to 33.5 per 100,000) and more than nine-fold in women (2.6 to 25.3 per 100,000). During these six decades, mortality rates more than tripled in men (1.6 to 4.9 per 100,000) and doubled in women (1.3 to 2.6 per 100,000). Mortality rates were generally stable or decreasing in men and women through age 54 years.
Conclusion
Unremitting increases in incidence and mortality of melanoma call for a nationally coordinated effort to encourage and promote innovative prevention and early-detection efforts.
[…]
This analysis of time trends in melanoma rates included men and women age 20 to 84 years. We restricted the analysis to whites because they comprised 97% of all patient cases.
—Alan C. Geller et al.
Melanoma Epidemic: An Analysis of Six Decades of Data From the Connecticut Tumor Registry
On 13 June 1906 five officers of the occupying British army, with their interpreter and a police official, visited Denshawai to go pigeon shooting. They shot pigeons belonging to villagers who kept them as domestic animals, angering the owners. The British officers opened fire on the villagers, wounding five, and set fire to the grain of Abd-el-Nebi.
Abd-el-Nebi, whose wife had been seriously injured, struck one of the officers with a stick. He was joined by the elderly Hassan Mahfouz, whose pigeons had been killed. Other villagers threw stones at them. The officers, two Irishmen and three Englishmen, surrendered their weapons, along with their watches and money, but this failed to appease the angry villagers. Two officers escaped, one of whom managed to contact the British Army, but the other died of heat stroke some distance from the village. An Egyptian peasant who tried to help the sick man was killed by soldiers who came across them.
Meanwhile, in the village the elders had intervened, saving the remaining soldiers and allowing them to return to their base. Concerned about a growing nationalist movement, Egyptian officials used the Denshawai incident as a pretext to harshly punish any resistance to British rule. The next day, the British army arrived, arresting fifty-two villagers, including Abd-el-Nebi, Hassan Mahfouz, a man called Darweesh and Zahran. At a summary trial, where the judges were mostly British, Hassan, Darweesh, Zahran and one other man were convicted of murdering the officer who had died of sunstroke, and were sentenced to death. One of the judges was Boutros Boutros Ghali’s grandfather. Abd-el-Nebi and another villager were given a life sentence of penal servitude and twenty-six villagers were given various terms of hard labor and ordered to be flogged. The officers stated that they had been "guests" of the villagers and had done nothing wrong.
The Egyptian police official accompanying the soldiers to the village did not confirm their story. He testified in court that after Abd-el Nebi's wife had been shot, the officers fired twice more on the mob. For his testimony, he was stood down, and a court of discipline sentenced him to two years imprisonment and fifty lashes.
This decision inflamed public opinion in both Great Britain and Egypt. Those who called the tribunal and its legality into question were accused of being unpatriotic and supporting the “the venal agitators” in Egypt.
Guy Aldred, who in 1907 compared the execution of Madan Lal Dhingra with the immunity given to the British officers in this incident, was sentenced to twelve months hard labor for publishing "The Indian Sociologist".
George Bernard Shaw, in the preface to his play "John Bull’s Other Island", says that because “they had room for only one man on the gallows, and had to leave him hanging half an hour to make sure [he was dead] and give his family plenty of time to watch him swinging, thus having two hours to kill as well as four men, they kept the entertainment going by flogging eight men with fifty lashes each.”
Shaw commented: “If her [England’s] empire means ruling the world as Denshawai has been ruled in 1906 – and that, I am afraid, is what the Empire does mean to the main body of our aristocratic-military caste and to our Jingo plutocrats – then there can be no more sacred and urgent political duty on earth than the disruption, defeat, and suppression of the Empire, and, incidentally, the humanization of its supporters…”
--Patrick Richard Carstens - 2014
The Encyclopædia of Egypt during the Reign of the Mehemet Ali Dynasty 1798 …
But hey, you just do you and believe what you want to believe. Let's have this take a NATURAL COURSE and NTR deal with it.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Autshumato: There were other means, like totally covered body, hats, long sleeves etc.
I have told often that I travel often, and whenever being in a tropical country or sub-tropical country, whites have difficulty with the hot weather. Getting burned etc. Most melanoma cases are with whites.
To claim that these cold adapted people are actually able to walk bare naked in Sahara climate like ancient Egyptians did for thousands of years generation after generation, is merely laughable and wishful thinking. Even when I was in Egypt, you could see them having difficulty with the weather.
quote: The Visual and Material Culture of British Military Encounters with Egypt, 1798-1918
British Soldiers in Egypt Image Credit: National Army Museum
Between 1798 and 1918 the British armed forces were engaged in a series of major military campaigns in Egypt. Naval victories over the French at the Battle of the Nile (1798) and the Siege of Acre (1799) were followed by a military expedition of over 22,000 troops in 1801-2. Five years later, in 1807, 5000 troops were despatched on a failed campaign in support of Mameluke forces. In 1882, 40,000 men led by Sir Garnet Wolsley formed the British Egyptian Expeditionary Force sent to secure British interests in the region, resulting in British occupation for the next 74 years. In the First World War, Egypt acted as troop camp and training ground for British imperial forces: by 1918 there were as many as 400,000 troops under imperial command in Egypt, including significant numbers of Indian, Australian and New Zealand soldiers.
The extended duration of British military engagement with Egypt and the substantial numbers of troops involved make it an especially fruitful case study for the analysis of militarized cultural encounters. This project will examine the perception and experience of Egypt by soldiers of all ranks from Britain and the Empire from the eighteenth to the twentieth century. It will draw principally on the National Army Museum and the Imperial War Museum’s rich collections of soldiers’ letters, journals and memoirs, as well as paintings, photographs and souvenirs relating to the Egyptian campaign. It will uncover the dominant topoi and perceptual frameworks through which British soldiers represented their experiences in Egypt. These ranged from the classical to the biblical, from the Christian crusading rhetoric that has been detected in British soldiers’ accounts of the Egyptian campaigns of WW1, to the more touristic view of Egypt summarized in Australian troops’ shorthand ‘sun, sand and syphilis’.
The project will focus, in particular, on the visual and material record of this encounter. Firstly, it will analyse the rich collection of soldiers’ sketches, engravings and photographs, as well as the visual vocabulary through which the British-Egyptian encounter was represented. The affinity between the ‘tourist gaze’ and the appropriative gaze of the military conqueror has become something of a critical commonplace in studies of both tourism and photography. Little attention, however, has been paid to the visual record of amateur military artists and photographers and how these relate to both forms of military surveillance and touristic and ethnographic modes of viewing. The project will look to develop an analytical framework through which to interpret the culture and practice of amateur military photography setting it alongside other, more familiar, textual records of war experience. Secondly, it will explore the curious blending of the local and the ‘exotic’ that resulted from the incorporation of Egyptian symbols such as the Sphinx into British regimental iconographies and traditions. As well as examining how the encounter may have been filtered through these local traditions, it will also consider how far Egypt operated as a site in which the transnational affinities of the multi-ethnic British imperial army could be articulated. The Army of India sent an estimated 7,000 troops, including many sepoys, to serve in the Egyptian campaign of 1801-2, while an estimated 144,000 Indian troops were deployed in Egypt and Palestine in the First World War. Finally, it will pay close attention to the material culture of the British-Egyptian encounter, exploring how the souvenirs, antiquities and curiosities collected by soldiers functioned means of self-fashioning and as repositories of memory and meaning. In so doing, the project will seek to add new approaches and insights to the burgeoning scholarship on the material culture of warfare.
quote:Originally posted by Elite Diasporan: EVERYONE. Back on topic or this thread is getting locked.
I asked the lioness a question pertaining the subject, and unfortunately no response was given by the lioness.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
You should know why BBH wants to lock the thread, Great Photos ISh. You always maze me with what you can dig up.
White people and their delusion of a "White Crete". Obvious these ancient people were more like North Africans.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: You should know why BBH wants to lock the thread, Great Photos Ish. You always maze me with what you can dig up.
White people and their delusion of a "White Crete". Obvious these ancient people were more like North Africans.
I don't mean to claim them as Africans necessarily, but that is what was suspected for a long time. However, they don't look like the modern people in the region. So the question is, who were these people?
quote:EXHIBITION OF THE REPRODUCTIONS OF THE WALL PAINTINGS OF THERA
The discovery of the wall-paintings of Akrotiri, Thera, in the excavations (1967-1974) of Professor Spyridon Marinatos is of outstanding importance for our knowledge of the early Aegean world. It ranks alongside Schliemann's opening of the Shaft Graves of Mycenae in 1876 and Evan's uncovering of the Palace of Knossos with its collections of inscribed tablets in 1900.
Of all the finds unearthed in the excavations at Akrotiri, there can be little doubt that the wall-paintings constitute the most significant contribution to our knowledge of Aegean art and society. In technique, style and thematic content they are an invaluable object study for archaeologists, art historian, zoologists, botanists, chemists, and a host of other specialists, and a virtually inexhaustible source of information on the art, economy, environment, technology, manners and customs - indeed life in general - in the first half of the second millennium BC.
The Thera Foundation hopes that by making the wall-paintings of Akrotiri widely available for study and enjoyment it is making a significant contribution to the understanding of early Aegean culture.
I don't understand why this topic has lasted two pages. Tukuler and others have already shown that many of the pictures in this thread were repainted to make them appear more Europeans.
Euronuts never give up trying to "white out", Blacks from ancient history. As a result, you have to repost material to show how false their propositions are.
Population genetics can not change history and archaeology except in the mind of the confused and promoters of Eurocentrism. The Greeks made it clear the Minoans came from Africa and were descendants of the Garamantes.
The Garamantes founded civilization in Minoa, or ancient Crete.The Garamantes were Mande speakers not Berbers.
The Tuareg did not come from the Fezzan, they originated in the East. According to Tuareg tradition they originated in the Tafilalt or Tafilet (Arabic: تافيلالت) a important oasis of the Moroccan Sahara, and migrated from there to the Fezzan.
The Ancient Minoans: Keftiu were Mande Speakers
Every since Arthur Evans discovered the Hieroglyphic and Linear A writing of Crete there has been a search for the authors of this writing.
Some Grecian traditions indicate that Libyans (called Garamante) formerly lived on Crete. This suggest that the Eteocretans may have spoken one of the ancient languages of Libya.
Sources agree that Garama was name of their capital city. Garamante was the name for the tribe.
Garama was the name of the capital city of the Garamantes. Pliny the Elder wrote"clarissimumque Garama caput Garamantum, the "well known Garam capital, of the Garamantes".See: www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/20....ert.kingdom.htm
A major group from Libya that settled Crete were the Garamante. Robert Graves in (Vol.1, pp.33-35) maintains that the Garamante originally lived in the Fezzan and fused with the inhabitants of the Upper Niger region of West Africa.
This theory is interesting because the chariot routes from the Garama, in the Fezzan terminated at the Niger river. In addition, the Cretan term for king "Minos", agrees with the Mande/Manding word for ruler "Mansa". Both these terms share consonantal agreement : M N S.
The name Garamante, illustrates affinity to Mande morphology and grammar. The Mande language is a member of the Niger-Congo group of languages. The name for the Manding tribe called "Mande", means Ma 'mother, and nde 'children', can be interpreted as "Children of Ma", or "Mothers children " (descent among this group is matrilineal) . The word Garamante,can be broken down into Malinke-Bambara into the following monosyllabic words Ga 'hearth', arid, hot'; Mante/Mande , the name of the Mande speaking tribes. This means that the term: Garamante, can be interpreted as "Mande of the Arid lands" or "Arid lands of the children of Ma". This last term is quite interesting because by the time the Greeks and Romans learned about the Garamante, the Fezzan was becoming increasingly arid.
Keftiu
The Egyptians called the Cretans Keftiu. There is agreement between the Keftiu names recorded by Egyptian scribes (T.E. Peet, "The Egyptian writing board BM5647 bearing Keftiu names". In , (ed.) by S Casson (Oxford, 1927, 90-99)), and Manding names.
The root kef-, in Keftiu, probably is Ke'be, the name of a Manding clan , plus the locative suffix {i-} used to give the affirmative sense, plus the plural suffix for names {u-}, and the {-te} suffixial element used to denote place names, nationalities and to form words.
On the Egyptian writing board there are eight Keftiu names. These names agree with Manding names:
Keftiu....... Manding
sh h.r........ Sye
Nsy ..........Nsye
'ksh .........Nkyi
Pnrt Pe,..... Beni (name for twins)
'dm ..........Demba
Rs............. Rsa
This analogy between Keftiu and Manding names is startling.
In conclusion, the evidence of similarity between Keftiu names and names from the Manding languages appear to support Graves view that the Eteocretans, who early settled Crete may have spoken a language similar to the Mande people who live near the Niger. Conseqently, there is every possibility that the Linear A script used by the Keftiu, which is analogous to the Libyco Berber writing used by the Proto-Mande .This is further support to Cambell-Dunn' s hypothesis that the Minoans spoke a Niger-Congo language.
In addition, because the Keftiu were Africans, the haplogroups carried by the Minoans would have been African haplogroups. As a result, when we find mtDNA U,T,N1 and K among the Anatolians, it was just a reflection of the Blacks/Kushites that dominated Anatolia
Consequently, when we find that the Minoans carried haplogroups H (43.2%), T (18.9%), K (16.2%) and I (8.1%). Haplogroups U5a, W, J2, U, X and J were each identified in a single individual. The results correspond to the Anatolian mtDNA.
The Mande speakers, include the Djola and Mandekan of the geneticist carry 2% Eurasian admixture. The people in Mali carry the N and H haplogroups. . . The highest concentration of U5 is found among Berbers in NWA . It is also carried by Mande spekers and Fulani in West Africa . The Djola, Mande speakers also carry mtDNA M1, H and N. See Alexandra Rosa, et al, MtDNA Profile of West Africa Guineans: Towards a Better Understanding of the Senegambia, http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2004.00100.x/full
The U5 haplogroup carried by the Mande, like other SSWA is characterized by 16189,16192,16270 and 16320.
The presence of hg U5, M1, N and H among the Mande speakers supports the linguistic evidence concerning the Keftiu.
The Y-chromosomes of Cretans also indicate the Cretans were Blacks Laisel Martinez et al , Paleolithic Y-haplogroup heritage predominates in a Cretan highland plateau, Eur J Hum Genet. 2007 http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n4/full/5201769a.html provides a detailed discussion of the y-chromosomes in Crete. The presence of y-chromosomes R1b, T, K and H in Crete indicate that the Cretans were Black.
.
The genomic data from this period is important because the people of Abusir at this time would have been primarily Egyptian. As a result, the mtDNA carried by the Egyptians confirms the reality that the so-called Eurasian haplogroups are nothing more than African haplogroups.
.
.
In Schuenemann et al, 2017, there were 100 mummies in the study. A total of 27 mummies were dated between 992-749BC. In Figure 1, you can see the clades carried by these Egyptians. Below are the frequencies of the haplogroups among Egyptians at this time:
Haplogroup Frequency U 18.5 T 22.2 J 18.5 X 0.0675 M1a 0.0675 H 0.0675 I 0.0675 HV 0.037 RO 0.037 K 0.037 N 0.037
The presence of these haplogroups among the Abusir population shows that the U,T, and J clades had a high frequency among the Egyptians, and that many of the so called Middle East clades were already present in Lower Egypt before the Greco-Romans, Turks and etc. ruled Egypt.
As a result, the finding of mtDNA U,T,J and N clades, and the Y-Chromosome R1 among, Anatolians, Cretans and Lower Egyptians explains the close relationship between the Minoans,and Anatolians. All of these people were Khas=Kushites, who had come from Upper Egypt and the Fezzan.
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![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
At the "African American, black woman" above. It's funny this same argument was used by you to put a picture by Koreans.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
