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The Health Benefits of Fasting Will Carroll
There has been much contention in the scientific field about whether or not fasting is beneficial to one's health. Fasting is an integral part of many of the major religions including Islam, Judaism and Christianity. Many are dubious as to whether the physiological effects are as beneficial as the spiritual promoted by these religions. There is a significant community of alternative healers who believe that fasting can do wonders for the human body. This paper will look at the arguments presented by these healers in an attempt to raise awareness of the possible physiological benefits that may result from fasting.
Fasting technically commences within the first twelve to twenty-four hours of the fast. A fast does not chemically begin until the carbohydrate stores in the body begin to be used as an energy source. The fast will continue as long as fat and carbohydrate stores are used for energy, as opposed to protein stores. Once protein stores begin to be depleted for energy (resulting in loss of muscle mass) a person is technically starving. (1)
The benefits of fasting must be preceded by a look at the body's progression when deprived of food. Due to the lack of incoming energy, the body must turn to its own resources, a function called autolysis. (2) Autolysis is the breaking down of fat stores in the body in order to produce energy. The liver is in charge of converting the fats into a chemical called a ketone body, "the metabolic substances acetoacetic acid and beta-hydroxybutyric acid" (3), and then distributing these bodies throughout the body via the blood stream. "When this fat utilization occurs, free fatty acids are released into the blood stream and are used by the liver for energy." (3) The less one eats, the more the body turns to these stored fats and creates these ketone bodies, the accumulation of which is referred to as ketosis. (4)
Detoxification is the foremost argument presented by advocates of fasting. "Detoxification is a normal body process of eliminating or neutralizing toxins through the colon, liver, kidneys, lungs, lymph glands, and skin." (5). This process is precipitated by fasting because when food is no longer entering the body, the body turns to fat reserves for energy. "Human fat is valued at 3,500 calories per pound," a number that would lead one to believe that surviving on one pound of fat every day would provide a body with enough energy to function normally. (2) These fat reserves were created when excess glucose and carbohydrates were not used for energy or growth, not excreted, and therefore converted into fat. When the fat reserves are used for energy during a fast, it releases the chemicals from the fatty acids into the system which are then eliminated through the aforementioned organs. Chemicals not found in food but absorbed from one's environment, such as DDT, are also stored in fat reserves that may be released during a fast. One fasting advocate tested his own urine, feces and sweat during an extended fast and found traces of DDT in each. (5)
A second prescribed benefit of fasting is the healing process that begins in the body during a fast. During a fast energy is diverted away from the digestive system due to its lack of use and towards the metabolism and immune system. (6) The healing process during a fast is precipitated by the body's search for energy sources. Abnormal growths within the body, tumors and the like, do not have the full support of the body's supplies and therefore are more susceptible to autolysis. Furthermore, "production of protein for replacement of damaged cells (protein synthesis) occurs more efficiently because fewer 'mistakes' are made by the DNA/RNA genetic controls which govern this process." A higher efficiency in protein synthesis results in healthier cells, tissues and organs. (7) This is one reason that animals stop eating when they are wounded, and why humans lose hunger during influenza. Hunger has been proven absent in illnesses such as gastritis, tonsillitis and colds. (2) Therefore, when one is fasting, the person is consciously diverting energy from the digestive system to the immune system.
In addition, there is a reduction in core body temperature. This is a direct result of the slower metabolic rate and general bodily functions. Following a drop in blood sugar level and using the reserves of glucose found in liver glycogen, the basal metabolic rate (BMR) is reduced in order to conserve as much energy within the body as can be provided. (2) Growth hormones are also released during a fast, due to the greater efficiency in hormone production. (7)
Finally, the most scientifically proven advantage to fasting is the feeling of rejuvenation and extended life expectancy. Part of this phenomenon is caused by a number of the benefits mentioned above. A slower metabolic rate, more efficient protein production, an improved immune system, and the increased production of hormones contributes to this long-term benefit of fasting. In addition to the Human Growth Hormone that is released more frequently during a fast, an anti-aging hormone is also produced more efficiently. (7) "The only reliable way to extend the lifespan of a mammal is under-nutrition without malnutrition." (5) A study was performed on earthworms that demonstrated the extension of life due to fasting. The experiment was performed in the 1930s by isolating one worm and putting it on a cycle of fasting and feeding. The isolated worm outlasted its relatives by 19 generations, while still maintaining its youthful physiological traits. The worm was able to survive on its own tissue for months. Once the size of the worm began to decrease, the scientists would resume feeding it at which point it showed great vigor and energy. "The life-span extension of these worms was the equivalent of keeping a man alive for 600 to 700 years." (8)
In conclusion, it seems that there are many reasons to consider fasting as a benefit to one's health. The body rids itself of the toxins that have built up in our fat stores throughout the years. The body heals itself, repairs all the damaged organs during a fast. And finally there is good evidence to show that regulated fasting contributes to longer life. However, many doctors warn against fasting for extended periods of time without supervision. There are still many doctors today who deny all of these points and claim that fasting is detrimental to one's health and have evidence to back their statements. The idea of depriving a body of what society has come to view as so essential to our survival in order to heal continues to be a topic of controversy. http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f02/web1/wcarroll.html
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The Orthodox Christians fast 76% of the year and this could include from abstaining from meats, others meats and fish. I do believe the real fasting includes not eating between sunrise to sunset, but don't hold me on that.
God bless, Benjamin Elias zaki_boxing@yahoo.com
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The Spiritual and Health Benefits of Ramadan Fasting
By Shahid Athar M.D.
At the onset of Ramadan Muslims all over the world start fasting from dawn to dusk daily for 30 days as ordained in Quran.
"O you who believe fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you so that you can learn Taqwa" (Quran 2:183)
The Arabic word Taqwa is translated in many ways including God consciousness, God fearing, piety, and self restraining. Thus we are asked to fast daily for one month from dawn to dusk and avoid food, water, sex and vulgar talk during that period.
But why do we need to fast? It is our experience that temptations and ways of the world tend to spoil our purity and austerity. Thus we indulge in food all of the time, snacking and nibbling the whole day, heading to obesity. We drink too much coffee, or tea, or carbonated drinks. Some sexaholics can not stay away from sex unless they do it at least once or more a day. When we argue, we leave our decency aside and resort to vulgar talk and even physical fighting.
Now when one is fasting, he or she cannot do all of that. When he looks at the mouth watering food, he cannot even taste it and he has to give up snacking and nibbling as well as smoking cigarettes if he does. No constant coffee, tea or Coke drinking either. Sexual passions have to be curtailed and when he is provoked to fight, he says " I am fasting that I cannot respond to your provocation". To achieve God consciousness or God nearness, a better word, we are advised to do additional prayer and read the Quran.
Medical benefits of Ramadan Muslims do not fast because of medical benefits which are of a secondary nature. Fasting has been used by patients for weight management, to rest the digestive tract and for lowering lipids. There are many adverse effects of total fasting as well as of crash diets. Islamic fasting is different from such diet plans because in Ramadan fasting, there is no malnutrition or inadequate calorie intake. The calorie intake of Muslims during Ramadan is at or slightly below the nutritional requirement guidelines. In addition, the fasting in Ramadan is voluntarily taken and is not a prescribed imposition from the physician.
Ramadan is a month of self-regulation and self training, with the hope that this training will last beyond the end of Ramadan. If the lessons learned during Ramadan, whether in terms of dietary intake or righteousness, are carried on after Ramadan, there effects will be long lasting. Moreover, the type of food taken during Ramadan does not have any selective criteria of crash diets such as those which are protein only or fruit only type diets. Everything that is permissible is taken in moderate quantities.
The difference between Ramadan and total fasting is the timing of the food; during Ramadan, we basically miss lunch and take an early breakfast and do not eat until dusk. Abstinence from water for 8 to 10 hours is not necessarily bad for health and in fact, it causes concentration of all fluids within the body, producing slight dehydration. The body has its own water conservation mechanism; in fact, it has been shown that slight dehydration and water conservation, at least in plant life, improve their longevity.
The physiological effect of fasting includes lowering of blood sugar, lowering of cholesterol and lowering of the systolic blood pressure. In fact, Ramadan fasting would be an ideal recommendation for the treatment of mild to moderate, stable, non-insulin diabetes, obesity, and essential hypertension. In 1994 the first International Congress on "Health and Ramadan", held in Casablanca, entered 50 extensive studies on the medical ethics of fasting. While improvement in many medical conditions was noted; however, in no way did fasting worsen any patients' health or their baseline medical condition. On the other hand, patients who are suffering from sever diseases, whether type I diabetes or coronary artery disease, kidney stones, etc., are exempt from fasting and should not be allowed to fast.
There are psychological effects of fasting as well. There is a peace and tranquility for those who fast during the month of Ramadan. Personal hostility is at a minimum, and the crime rate decreases. Muslims take advice from the Prophet who said, "If one slanders you or aggresses against you, say I am fasting."
This psychological improvement could be related to better stabilization of blood glucose during fasting as hypoglycemia after eating, aggravates behavior changes. There is a beneficial effect of extra prayer at night. This not only helps with better utilization of food but also helps in energy output. There are 10 extra calories output for each unit of the prayer. Again, we do not do prayers for exercise, but a mild movement of the joints with extra calorie utilization is a better form of exercise. Similarly, recitation of the Quran not only produces a tranquility of heart and mind, but improves the memory.
One of the odd nights in the last 10 days of Ramadan is called the night of power when angels descend down, and take the prayer of worship to God for acceptance.
Fasting is a special act of worship which is only between humans and God since no one else knows for sure if this person is actually fasting. Thus God says in a hadith qudsi that "Fasting is for Me and I only will reward it". In another hadith, the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) has said "If one does not give up falsehoods in words and actions, God has no need of him giving up food and drink".
Happy Ramadan to all Muslims.
Shahid Athar M.D. is Clinical Associate Professor of Internal Medicine and Endocrinology, Indiana University School of Medicine Indianapolis, Indiana, and a writer on Islam.
LinkPosts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote: The difference between Ramadan and total fasting is the timing of the food; during Ramadan, we basically miss lunch and take an early breakfast and do not eat until dusk. Abstinence from water for 8 to 10 hours is not necessarily bad for health and in fact, it causes concentration of all fluids within the body, producing slight dehydration. The body has its own water conservation mechanism; in fact, it has been shown that slight dehydration and water conservation, at least in plant life, improve their longevity.
Is this implying that perhaps fasting helps us to live longer? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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U.S. study finds potential new ways to fight aging
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science EditorThu Sep 20, 1:20 PM ET
Researchers said on Thursday they had found more ways to activate the body's own anti-aging defenses -- perhaps with a pill that could fight multiple diseases at once.
Their study, published in the journal Cell, helps explain why animals fed very low-calorie diets live longer, but it also offers new ways to try to replicate the effects of these diets using a pill instead of hunger, the researchers said.
"What we are talking about is potentially having one pill that prevents and even cures many diseases at once," said David Sinclair, a pathologist at Harvard Medical School who helped lead the research.
Sinclair helped found a company that is working on drugs based on this research, Sirtris Pharmaceuticals.
The key is a family of enzymes called sirtuins. They are controlled by genes called SIRT1, SIRT2 and so on.
Last year, researchers showed that stimulating SIRT1 can help yeast cells live longer.
Sinclair, working with colleagues at his company, at Cornell University in New York and the U.S. National Institutes of Health, identified the actions of two more sirtuin genes called SIRT3 and SIRT4.
They found the enzymes controlled by these genes help preserve the mitochondria -- little organs inside of cells that provide their energy.
"These two genes, SIRT3 and SIRT4, they make proteins that go into mitochondria. ... These are little energy packs inside our cells that are very important for staying healthy and youthful and, as we age, we lose them and they get less efficient," Sinclair said in a videotaped statement.
SLOWING EVERYDAY AGING
"They are also very important for keeping the cells healthy and alive when they undergo stress and DNA damage, as we undergo every day during the aging process."
Sinclair and colleagues have found in other studies that even if the rest of a cell is destroyed -- the nucleus and other parts -- it can still function if the mitochondria are alive.
His team found that fasting raises levels of another protein called NAD. This, in turn, activates SIRT3 and SIRT4 in the mitochondria of the cell and these help keep the mitochondria youthful.
"We've reason to believe now that these two genes may be potential drug targets for diseases associated with aging," Sinclair said.
"Theoretically, we can envision a small molecule (pill) that can increase levels of NAD, or SIRT3 and SIRT4 directly, in the mitochondria. Such a molecule could be used for many age-related diseases," he added.
"Diseases like heart disease, cancer, osteoporosis -- even things like cataracts. What we are aiming to do is to find the body's natural processes that can slow down aging and treat these diseases."
Sirtris is already working on such drugs. It has an experimental pill called SRT501, which it is testing in Phase 2a trials in patients with type-2 diabetes.
"These exciting new data further validate sirtuins as attractive targets for drug development to treat diseases of aging," Dr. Christoph Westphal, chief executive officer of Sirtris, said in a statement. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070920/hl_nm/aging_drugs_dc_2Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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How can your body detox if you don't drink in order to help the toxins getting out of your body? Everyone who's done a health fast (i.e. not eating anything for a couple of weeks or longer) knows that it's essential to drink very much during this time.
So I doubt that the fasting many Muslims practice during Ramadan will help much with detoxing or "colon washing".
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Dalia*, another valid point is that most of them don't have a clue about healthy eating. They starve themselves and don't drink for the whole day just to indulge in the evening into a lot of fattening and high-calorie food.
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: The Health Benefits of Fasting Will Carroll
...Detoxification is the foremost argument presented by advocates of fasting. "Detoxification is a normal body process of eliminating or neutralizing toxins through the colon, liver, kidneys, lungs, lymph glands, and skin." (5). This process is precipitated by fasting because when food is no longer entering the body, the body turns to fat reserves for energy. "Human fat is valued at 3,500 calories per pound," a number that would lead one to believe that surviving on one pound of fat every day would provide a body with enough energy to function normally. (2) These fat reserves were created when excess glucose and carbohydrates were not used for energy or growth, not excreted, and therefore converted into fat. When the fat reserves are used for energy during a fast, it releases the chemicals from the fatty acids into the system which are then eliminated through the aforementioned organs. Chemicals not found in food but absorbed from one's environment, such as DDT, are also stored in fat reserves that may be released during a fast. One fasting advocate tested his own urine, feces and sweat during an extended fast and found traces of DDT in each. (5)
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Dalia*, another valid point is that most of them don't have a clue about healthy eating. They starve themselves and don't drink for the whole day just to indulge in the evening into a lot of fattening and high-calorie food.
You are muddling theory and practice here Tigerlily...just because many people don't follow the prescribed way of fasting doesn't invalidate the fast as practised by those who do it properly.
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I'm well aware of the health benefits of fasting, and I've done it myself. But this paragraph is referring to "normal" fasting, so do you think it can be applied to Ramadan fasting?
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Because of what I wrote in my previous post. The article newcomer posted is referring to "regular" fasting that lasts longer than 8-12 hours and leaves your stomach completely empty for an extended period of time. Also, during a health fast your colon is completely empty after a certain period, which plays a role in the fasting process. This is not the case if you eat regularly like during the Ramadan fast. Plus, drinking a lot is an essential part of the health fasting.
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: I'm well aware of the health benefits of fasting, and I've done it myself. But this paragraph is referring to "normal" fasting, so do you think it can be applied to Ramadan fasting?
I too have done detox fasts and although the fasting of Ramadan obviously doesn't do the deep intensive detox that a fluid-only fast does, I am sure that it does so in a gentler way over an extended period of time.
In an Islamic fast there is no need for us to drink all the time if we take adequate fluids at night. If our bodies need extra fluid then, they let us know. Throughout the day our bodies use up the nutrients we have eaten during the evening and morning and then slowly start to work on using up some of the toxic fatty deposits in the body, dependent on the energy we need to exert during the day, with the waste products constantly being excreted through the urine, faeces, sweat, and breath throughout the day.
When we break the fast, we do it with a drink - and this is one of the amazing sensations of the fast, as you can feel the liquid going down and rehydrating all the cells. Further drinks then flush out any remaining toxins in the bladder so they do not sit there for any length of time to be reabsorbed. Detox isn't the aim of the Islamic fast, but the detox and health benefits are just additional and welcome benefits.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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OK, about time I said something. I usually avoid religious debates because religion to me is like choosing your underwear color; it's really no one else's business, but this time I have to break my own rule.
As a Muslim, I am not supposed to question God's commands, but in my head, of course I do, and I am not disappointed.
First let me explain something about how our body works to eliminate its waste. We have several organs that help us excrete our waste, mainly the liver, kidneys (urine production), lungs (the air we breathe out has some of our metabolic waste in the form of CO2, water, heat and some other substances like ammonia and acetone), the skin (sweating), and the colon (the elements we didn't need/couldn't absorb).
But how is the liver involved in this process? Among the many fascinating functions of the liver, it breaks down the fat-soluble waste elements into water-soluble ones, so that the kidneys can deal with them. The kidneys can only excrete water-soluble things, otherwise we would be peeing drops of oil every time we attack a huge pot of Hommos with Tahina.
So normally speaking, the more you drink, the more you help your kidney functions. Note the word "normally", because this does NOT apply to kidney patients, among some others with certain pathologies.
Now back to the liver, so contrary to the kidneys, the liver can only read "fat-soluble" elements, and the more the fat-soluble elements are stagnant, the easier it is for the liver to catch them and break them down. It's like the liver is a policeman who can't swim, and the fatty waste is the floating criminal who jumped in a swimming pool, so a wickedly smart way to catch it is to empty the pool and attack the bastard on dry grounds.
With Islamic fasting, we dry out our body so that the fat-soluble toxins get concentrated in the liver, and all day, the liver is busy without distraction to convert those into water soluble elements, and as soon as we break the fasting, preferably with water, the liver will have finished its job and the toxins are ready to be flushed out by the kidney. This is the best way to detox in my humble opinion.
But I have to admit that I'm so sick and tired of those who claim it's not healthy to fast Ramadan! I show them my politically correct smile and say: "Too bad for me".
Barbatoozi bamba and I cry if I want to!
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Jazak Allah khairan, MK, I was hoping you would come into this discussion, but knowing your aversion to this forum, I didn't know whether you would. Glad to have a more technical explanation than my guesswork.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: I'm well aware of the health benefits of fasting, and I've done it myself. But this paragraph is referring to "normal" fasting, so do you think it can be applied to Ramadan fasting?
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: How can your body detox if you don't drink in order to help the toxins getting out of your body? Everyone who's done a health fast (i.e. not eating anything for a couple of weeks or longer) knows that it's essential to drink very much during this time.
So I doubt that the fasting many Muslims practice during Ramadan will help much with detoxing or "colon washing".
Far be it for me to inject myself into this religiously inspired conversation, but I could never stay away from health related ones
Also I must say, I agree with Dalia completely.
Fasting without drinking lots of water is generally unhealthy.
The liver and kidneys are made up of almost entirely water, and REQUIRE water to function at peak efficiency.
Fasting without drinking adequate water would actually retard the liver and kidneys' ability to remove waste and detoxify the body.
If you don't drink enough water, the toxins will just store up in the liver and cause damage.
Usually when I fast, I do so for about 3 days, and throughout, I drink LOADS of water mixed with organic apple cider vinegar, which aids the detoxification process even more.
quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: Far be it for me to inject myself into this religiously inspired conversation, but I could never stay away from health related ones
Also I must say, I agree with Dalia completely.
Fasting without drinking lots of water is generally unhealthy.
The liver and kidneys are made up of almost entirely water, and REQUIRE water to function at peak efficiency.
Fasting without drinking adequate water would actually retard the liver and kidneys' ability to remove waste and detoxify the body.
If you don't drink enough water, the toxins will just store up in the liver and cause damage.
Usually when I fast, I do so for about 3 days, and throughout, I drink LOADS of water mixed with organic apple cider vinegar, which aids the detoxification process even more.
I've never heard of fasting for 2+ weeks though.
Thats nucking futs!
~Alistair
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual: But I have to admit that I'm so sick and tired of those who claim it's not healthy to fast Ramadan! I show them my politically correct smile and say: "Too bad for me".
quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: Far be it for me to inject myself into this religiously inspired conversation, but I could never stay away from health related ones
Also I must say, I agree with Dalia completely.
Fasting without drinking lots of water is generally unhealthy.
The liver and kidneys are made up of almost entirely water, and REQUIRE water to function at peak efficiency.
Fasting without drinking adequate water would actually retard the liver and kidneys' ability to remove waste and detoxify the body.
If you don't drink enough water, the toxins will just store up in the liver and cause damage.
Usually when I fast, I do so for about 3 days, and throughout, I drink LOADS of water mixed with organic apple cider vinegar, which aids the detoxification process even more.
I've never heard of fasting for 2+ weeks though.
Thats nucking futs!
~Alistair
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual: But I have to admit that I'm so sick and tired of those who claim it's not healthy to fast Ramadan! I show them my politically correct smile and say: "Too bad for me".
quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: Far be it for me to inject myself into this religiously inspired conversation, but I could never stay away from health related ones
Also I must say, I agree with Dalia completely.
Fasting without drinking lots of water is generally unhealthy.
The liver and kidneys are made up of almost entirely water, and REQUIRE water to function at peak efficiency.
Fasting without drinking adequate water would actually retard the liver and kidneys' ability to remove waste and detoxify the body.
If you don't drink enough water, the toxins will just store up in the liver and cause damage.
Usually when I fast, I do so for about 3 days, and throughout, I drink LOADS of water mixed with organic apple cider vinegar, which aids the detoxification process even more.
I've never heard of fasting for 2+ weeks though.
Thats nucking futs!
Here we go with blindfolded gambling with science again. Alistair, the biotransformation reactions of the liver are mainly HYDROPHOBIC, which means that WATER is not only UNNECESSARY for them, but could be even a factor that HINDERS them, if overhydration is the case. UNTIL AFTER the reactions occur, something that takes several hours, water comes in to play a major role in getting rid of the mainly water-soluble products of the process.
quote: Distribution and metabolism of chemicals
Chemicals absorbed from the stomach or intestine enter the hepatic portal system and are taken to the liver where they may be modified by a series of reactions often referred to as biotransformation.
Biotransformation reactions in the liver have been referred to as "detoxification" but this term is misleading because they can also increase the toxicity of a number of chemicals - "biotoxification".
Figure 2 (1.2.2.4) and Figure 3 (1.2.2.4) show the possible fates of chemicals following absorption and indicates how the fate of a chemical may depend upon its physicochemical properties.
Biotransformation reactions are subdivided into phase I and phase II reactions.
Phase I reactions include oxidation, reduction, hydrolysis, dealkylation, deamination, dehalogenation, ring formation , and ring breakage .
Phase II reactions are conjugation reactions - covalent linkage of the absorbed chemicals, or of the products of the phase I reactions, with compounds such as glutathione, glucuronic acid, or amino-acids.
The conjugates produced are generally more water soluble than the chemicals from which they are derived and so are more easily excreted.
Chemicals which undergo phase I and phase II reactions are normally those which are fat soluble (lipophilic).
Fat soluble substances tend to accumulate in body tissue and milk if not converted to an excretable form.
Excretion of conjugates mostly occurs in the bile.
Enterohepatic circulation slows excretion of the substances involved and must be allowed for in evaluating the likely effects of any potentially toxic substances.
Water soluble (hydrophilic) substances and dissociated polar substances go directly to the blood circulation, from which they may be lost in expired air from the lungs (if they vapourize readily), through the kidney in the urine following ultrafiltration and/or active secretion or in other secreted fluids such as tears, saliva, milk, sweat etc.
Highly lipophilic and metabolically stable substances tend to accumulate in body fat; if this fat is mobilized under stress conditions, the substances may return to the blood and cause acute intoxication before undergoing phase I and phase II reactions in the liver and other organs.
quote: the binding of glucagon to its receptor shows characteristics of hydrophobic bonding, and because certain detergents induce conformational changes in the carboxy-terminal binding region of glucagon, the binding is probably of a lipophilic type.
I can go on forever about liver reactions but science is boring. Go cuddle with your six-pack or something, Ali.
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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MK, I believe ya. Oh, but for me, not drinking water is the hardest. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual: Here we go with blindfolded gambling with science again. Alistair, the biotransformation reactions of the liver are mainly HYDROPHOBIC, which means that WATER is not only UNNECESSARY for them, but could be even a factor that HINDERS them, if overhydration is the case. UNTIL AFTER the reactions occur, something that takes several hours, water comes in to play a major role in getting rid of the mainly water-soluble products of the process.
Maybe I'm stupid or something, but how is this disagreeing with what I said?
I said, fasting while not drinking an adequate amount of water would limit the ability of the liver and kidneys to remove waste and toxins from the body.
You say that the "biotransformation" reactions of the liver are hydrophobic.
By biotransformation, I assume you are referring to the liver's ability to convert fat soluble matter into water soluble matter.
My knowledge of the human body isn't sufficient enough to verify whether water is needed in this process, so I'll take your word on this. Although it wouldn't surprise me if water was required, as the liver is made up almost entirely of water (97% I believe), and human waste obviously contains water.
Regardless, you then say that after the biotransformation takes place, water is then required to REMOVE the now water soluble waste.
How does this not concur with what I said?
You are in effect agreeing with me, if you believe that water is required for the removal of waste from the liver or kidneys.
quote:I can go on forever about liver reactions but science is boring.
I don't see how those articles you quoted negated my assertion that water is crucial to the liver and kidneys' waste removal and detoxification abilities.
Then again, people of faith usually have a way of twisting everything to suit their beliefs.
quote:Go cuddle with your six-pack or something, Ali.
The liver and kidneys are made up of almost entirely water, and REQUIRE water to function at peak efficiency.
Fasting without drinking adequate water would actually retard the liver and kidneys' ability to remove waste and detoxify the body.
If you don't drink enough water, the toxins will just store up in the liver and cause damage.
Usually when I fast, I do so for about 3 days, and throughout, I drink LOADS of water mixed with organic apple cider vinegar, which aids the detoxification process even more.
I've never heard of fasting for 2+ weeks though.
Thats nucking futs!
~Alistair [/QB]
The entire human body is mainly water, but the amount you lose is mostly in the extracellular fluid compartment, that's where it's noticed first. Therefore if your point was that adequate hydration should be maintained during the time that the person isn't fasting, then you're right. But that this dehydration will actually lead to 'buildup in the liver' and lead to damage, no-- not in normal healthy people. And specifically what liver damage are you referring to? Fasting for 12 hours in a normal healthy person will not lead to liver damage. Liver damage by the generic term 'toxins' is of namely sources. Also that's such a huge jump of an assumption considering you're talking about hypotonic water loss.
Also if there is a surgeon in your life (or you are a surgeon, in which I'll say shame on you), talk to them about normal daily fluid loss and the calculations used for fluid management. Now this is irregardless of the hydrophobic/ hydrophilic reactions in the liver. The above argument (MK's) is correct about how the nature of the liver is to work with the hydrophobic/nonpolar substances, but your premise that fasting for 12 hours will lead to 'liver damage' due to toxin buildup is not correct.
And for the next anticipated (if any) argument, no you won't get brain edema from rehydration. Most likely, you have not run a marathon during Ramadan, and if you have there are ways to manage this.
Posts: 483 | From: cairo | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cairobug: But that this dehydration will actually lead to 'buildup in the liver' and lead to damage, no-- not in normal healthy people.
If water is required for waste removal from the liver, then how could being dehydrated not affect the liver's ability to remove waste?
quote: but your premise that fasting for 12 hours will lead to 'liver damage' due to toxin buildup is not correct.
Nowhere did I state that fasting for 12hrs would lead to liver damage so I have no idea what you're talking about. I never mentioned any time limit at all.
What I DID say, was that water is vital to the proper functioning of both the liver and the kidneys, and that not drinking enough water would retard waste removal and detoxification..
This statement holds true whether you're fasting or not.
Sheesh.....what is wrong with you people?
Are you that desperate to prove that fasting during Ramadan is similar to normal fasting?
quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: [QUOTE]
Sheesh.....what is wrong with you people?
Are you that desperate to prove that fasting during Ramadan is similar to normal fasting?
~Alistair
LOL
You sometimes crack me up Alistair. But the numbers here are against you. You got professionals in the health industry representing here.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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You sometimes crack me up Alistair. But the numbers here are against you. You got professionals in the health industry representing here.
I still don't even know why Cairobug or MK are even arguing with me.
Since they are "health professionals," they should be keenly aware that water is absolutely vital to the functioning of the liver and the kidneys....actually, that goes for ALL organs.
Thats all I said really....and they are arguing with me about it.
I never said anything about Ramadan being healthy or unhealthy.
posted
My mistake Alistair, I assumed you knew that Ramadan was only a 12 hour fast
-------------------- Disclaimer: My posts are not meant to personally offend anyone. If you find yourself reading my posts repeatedly, you are kindly asked to seek the help of a professional Posts: 483 | From: cairo | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: Nowhere did I state that fasting for 12hrs would lead to liver damage so I have no idea what you're talking about. I never mentioned any time limit at all.
The fact is that you said that you completely agreed with Dalia who was arguing that the Islamic fast wouldn't lead to detoxification because we don't drink throughout the day.
The 12 hours comes in because that is the approximate period of time that we don't take any food or drink, and as MK showed, this allowed the liver to consolidate the waste products and as soon as we take our first drink when we break the daily fast, the toxins are washed out.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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You sometimes crack me up Alistair. But the numbers here are against you. You got professionals in the health industry representing here.
I still don't even know why Cairobug or MK are even arguing with me.
Since they are "health professionals," they should be keenly aware that water is absolutely vital to the functioning of the liver and the kidneys....actually, that goes for ALL organs.
Thats all I said really....and they are arguing with me about it.
I never said anything about Ramadan being healthy or unhealthy.
My statement was very general, and not specific.
~Alistair
Everyone on the planet including CB and MK agrees with you that water is vital to organ function. However what MK stated was that with less water the liver is able to break up toxins better and then the vitality of water plays the subsequent part of flushing such toxins out the system.
That’s my understanding.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
"If water is required for waste removal from the liver, then how could being dehydrated not affect the liver's ability to remove waste?"
Being "dehydrated" has numbers, none of which add up to the dehydration of fasting for 12 hours (which is the approximate length of time for fasting in a given day during ramadan).
Regarding your general statement, I figured to comment as well since I thought that such a general statement in a topic headed "health benefits of fasting" would be misleading. If your intent was to advise and remind those who are fasting of adequate hydration, then please accept my apology.
-------------------- Disclaimer: My posts are not meant to personally offend anyone. If you find yourself reading my posts repeatedly, you are kindly asked to seek the help of a professional Posts: 483 | From: cairo | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cairobug: My mistake Alistair, I assumed you knew that Ramadan was only a 12 hour fast
No problem CB I had no idea that Ramadan lasted only 12hrs.
~Alistair
I did not know that, I was under the impression that you knew a bit more about Ramadan, my apologies again. It is actually a common misconception, that I've encountered--some people actually do not realize that you are not fasting 30 days straight.
Posts: 483 | From: cairo | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: The fact is that you said that you completely agreed with Dalia who was arguing that the Islamic fast wouldn't lead to detoxification because we don't drink throughout the day.
This is a classic example of people not paying attention to what is being said.
I never said that the Islamic fast wouldn't lead to detoxification.
I said that fasting without drinking an adequate amount of water would RETARD the liver and kidneys' ability to remove waste and toxins from the body.
There's a huge difference between retard, or slowing down, and actual prevention which is what you are implying I meant.
Anyway, if you stop drinking water for long enough, the liver, kidney and all the other organs would simply shut down and you'd die so either way, I'm right.
quote:The 12 hours comes in because that is the approximate period of time that we don't take any food or drink, and as MK showed, this allowed the liver to consolidate the waste products and as soon as we take our first drink when we break the daily fast, the toxins are washed out.
I had no idea that Ramadan was only 12hrs. I thought it would be something that lasted a few days at the very least.
Based on this alone, you can't really draw any comparison between Ramadan and regular fasting for the purpose of detoxification.
posted
-Regarding: "Anyway, if you stop drinking water for long enough, the liver, kidney and all the other organs would simply shut down and you'd die so either way, I'm right." You're not right. Please tell me if you stop drinking water for 12 hours, what will be the cause of death? I'm asking for a real diagnosis, not dehydration. You're also confusing liver and kidney, the kidney is sensitive to hypovolemic shock and not the liver.
-Ramadan is fasting for 12 hours a day for 30 days. I'm sure that definition is the least challenging in this discussion.
-Please define 'regular fasting for the purpose of detoxification'
-If the issue is, is fasting as it should be done in Ramadan, is a good thing? My answer is yes.You're entitled to continue believing whatever it is you like.
(Also please answer the question I posed before responding to anything, let's just clarify so that we don't mislead normal healthy people from fasting during Ramadan).
-------------------- Disclaimer: My posts are not meant to personally offend anyone. If you find yourself reading my posts repeatedly, you are kindly asked to seek the help of a professional Posts: 483 | From: cairo | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: The fact is that you said that you completely agreed with Dalia who was arguing that the Islamic fast wouldn't lead to detoxification because we don't drink throughout the day.
This is a classic example of people not paying attention to what is being said.
Please read again what I said. I said that the fact that you said that you completely agreed with Dalia...and that her argument was that there would be no detox effect from an Islamic fast ...was what caused the problem. As you said you were completely agreeing with her, it looked as if you actually knew something about the Islamic fast during the daytime for the month of Ramadan that she was arguing over.
Please stop and read what was written before you throw out statements like these!
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: I still don't even know why Cairobug or MK are even arguing with me.
Since they are "health professionals," they should be keenly aware that water is absolutely vital to the functioning of the liver and the kidneys....actually, that goes for ALL organs.
Alistair, did you really read what I wrote TWICE in two separate posts?
I repeat, water IS absolutely vital for the kidney function, but for the liver to break the fat-soluble substances, water is not necessary until those substances are well broken, then comes in the role of water to take them to the kidneys. So when the portal circulation (the blood vessels between the liver and the intestines) gets more concentrated, the liver is supposedly more able to process the fatty substances in it.
So what I'm saying is that there are two phases for what I view as a detox process. Phase One, in which one is not eating and not diluting the blood, and that's when the liver is busy trapping and breaking the fat-soluble toxins, and Phase Two, when everything becomes water-soluble and it's an absolute necessity to drink loads of water to flush out the toxins.
And FYI, a healthy individual can go on without water for a whole day, let alone 12 hours.
quote: I never said anything about Ramadan being healthy or unhealthy.
My statement was very general, and not specific.
You're beating around the bush, Alistair. In my post to you about the biotransformation facts, I also did not mention anything about the Ramadan fasting.
As I said before, those who view Ramadan fasting as unhealthy will always view it as such, and those who fast it with pleasure will always enjoy the feeling. And I hope we all remain friends.
But I do feel absolutely cleansed from within and much healthier after fasting Ramadan though. Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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the fasting of Ramadan obviously doesn't do the deep intensive detox that a fluid-only fast does, I am sure that it does so in a gentler way over an extended period of time.
Interesting, I need to look into this when I have more time. Yes, I can imagine that being the case, I just don't believe that the benefits of health fasting are exactly the same as those of Ramadan fasting (which is often claimed). I remember this "Fit for life" programm that was very popular in the US a few years ago. One of the important claims in the book was the theory that our body detoxifies in phases, i.e. at night and in the morning hours. The authors claim that you should not eat anything other than fruit until about noon, and that this would help your body detoxify. Now I'm not sure how valid this theory is ... I think there is some truth to it, while I also think that different people have different metabolisms, some can eat tons in the morning and hardly get anything down at night, while it's exactly the opposite for others. But it bears some relation to what you wrote above.
Anyway ... Ramadan Kareem to everyone who's fasting. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cairobug: You're not right. Please tell me if you stop drinking water for 12 hours, what will be the cause of death?
Cairobug, for the love of God, why do you keep insisting on the 12hr thing?
I never mentioned anything about 12hrs!
I said, that if you stop drinking water for LONG ENOUGH, you'd die of organ failure.
Long enough usually means 3 days, as thats how long it takes for your body to die of dehydration.
quote:I'm asking for a real diagnosis, not dehydration. You're also confusing liver and kidney, the kidney is sensitive to hypovolemic shock and not the liver.
I would imagine that all organs are at some point, sensitive to hypovolemic shock because all organs need water to operate...including the liver.
quote:Ramadan is fasting for 12 hours a day for 30 days. I'm sure that definition is the least challenging in this discussion.
Not drinking water for 12hrs straight would most likely not have any adverse effects other than feeling thirsty.
quote:Please define 'regular fasting for the purpose of detoxification
I'm talking of not eating for atleast 24hrs or more, while simultaneously drinking lots of fluids to aid waste removal.
quote:If the issue is, is fasting as it should be done in Ramadan, is a good thing? My answer is yes.You're entitled to continue believing whatever it is you like.
Well, it probably does have some benefit I'm sure.
However, I would disagree that it is as beneficial as regular fasting, which is the crux of this arguement.
~Alistair
-------------------- Lies fade like smoke when uncovered..but Truth, burns like fire. Posts: 1221 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: The fact is that you said that you completely agreed with Dalia who was arguing that the Islamic fast wouldn't lead to detoxification because we don't drink throughout the day.
That was only one half of Dalia's arguement. The other half was that 12hrs wouldn't be long enough to ensure a proper detox.
quote:The 12 hours comes in because that is the approximate period of time that we don't take any food or drink, and as MK showed, this allowed the liver to consolidate the waste products and as soon as we take our first drink when we break the daily fast, the toxins are washed out.
Look Newcomer, the crux of this debate in my opinion, was whether Ramadan fasting mirrors the beneficial effects of regular fasting.
In my opinion, it cannot primarily due to the fact that the period of fasting isn't long enough. 12hrs is only half a day, and not nearly long enough to ensure a proper cleansing.
I never knew that Ramadan lasted only 12hrs, which was why I initially focused on the hydration side of the arguement, which is weaker.
But, now that I know, it's not even debatable anymore; atleast to me.
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual: I repeat, water IS absolutely vital for the kidney function, but for the liver to break the fat-soluble substances, water is not necessary until those substances are well broken, then comes in the role of water to take them to the kidneys. So when the portal circulation (the blood vessels between the liver and the intestines) gets more concentrated, the liver is supposedly more able to process the fatty substances in it.
I must admit, I have a hard time believing that water is not necessary to break down fat soluble substances.
Water is involved in practically every bio-chemical process, down to the cellular level..
The liver itself is almost entirely composed of water even..
Regardless, I do understand what you mean, and I still maintain that it does not conflict with my earlier assertion that water is vital to the liver's ability to remove waste from the body.
Your explanation was just alot more technical
quote:As I said before, those who view Ramadan fasting as unhealthy will always view it as such, and those who fast it with pleasure will always enjoy the feeling.
Like I told Newcomer, the crux of this debate seems to center around whether Ramadan fasting could EMULATE regular fasting or not, and not whether Ramadan fasting itself is healthy.
Therefore, we must consider the fact that the period of fasting in Ramadan is only 12hrs, which isn't sufficient enough time to do a proper cleansing/detox, the likes of what occurs when you do normal health fasting.
Do you agree with this or not?
Ramadan most likely does offer some benefit, but I very much doubt it can offer as much as normal health fasting.
However, since Ramadan stems from religious inclinations and not health, then it's really a non issue..
quote:And I hope we all remain friends.
I still think you should go play with your chemistry set
~Alistair
-------------------- Lies fade like smoke when uncovered..but Truth, burns like fire. Posts: 1221 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
How does fasting (for 12 hours) affect a person with diabetes or some other blood sugar issue?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
As I think NC, Mk And Cb left nothing for me to say. but I wanna give my 2 cents here.
As for liver detoxification reaction
as mentioned by MK there are phaseI reactions and phaseII reactions some of them need tiny portion of water and the others produce water.
Those reactions that produce water give those who needs water and then an equilibrim is esatblished. ( this is what an atheist will say about that it is a nature equilibrim but in Fact it is an accurate equilibrim created By Allah specifically to those who fast)
if one consumed a lot of water the hydrophobic detox reaction will be impaired due to xss water. hence the correct detox fasting is that what muslims do.
the benefits of fasting is not only medical but there are numerous benefits away from health benefits. This thread NC has posted is talking only about the medical ones which I think it is the least benefits one should gain from the fasting.
quote:Originally posted by Om Bubblemouth: How does fasting (for 12 hours) affect a person with diabetes or some other blood sugar issue?
which kind of diabetes do u ask about?
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I don't know 7'offash. I was just wondering if there is anything good or bad about fasting if you have blood sugar problems. I don't know enough about it to give you a better description, sorry. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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