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about christianty religion ,i knew that human decided a nature of them God after that alost of people beleive in what human decided not what God ordered. Posts: 92 | From: egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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I think I know what you mean. I believe in God, but from a Christian perspective I don't think I like Him very much.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by jessie: I think I know what you mean. I believe in God, but from a Christian perspective I don't think I like Him very much.
How can you believe in God and don't like Him very much?
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by abu maryam 76: about christianty religion ,i knew that human decided a nature of them God after that alost of people beleive in what human decided not what God ordered. :rolleyes:
Hey this is exactly in Islam!In Sharia,this is not God's order but people dicision.So no one have to do what they're saying!
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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I believe in loads of things which i don't like. Hurricanes, tomatoes, rats, wars, stupidity, caviar ......... I don't believe i like a 'compassionate and forgiving' God who sends people to hell for eternity.[No parole in Christianity]
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by abu maryam 76: about christianty religion ,i knew that human decided a nature of them God after that alost of people beleive in what human decided not what God ordered.
You are right Abu maryam, Christians decided to form God's nature at the Global confrences held in Nikia and Khalkedonya in the early centuries. Differnt theories were debatable, some were imposed by Roman empire by force. Copts had been suffering a lot to stand firm in their creed, they even fled to the desert and invented monastries'life.In spite of clear idea about one God described in the Holy Book(Genesis & Exodus) they adopted trinity Posts: 90 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by abu maryam 76: about christianty religion ,i knew that human decided a nature of them God after that alost of people beleive in what human decided not what God ordered. :rolleyes:
You are right Abu maryam, Christians decided to form God's nature at the Global confrences held in Nikia and Khalkedonya in the early centuries. Differnt theories were debatable, some were imposed by Roman empire by force. Copts had been suffering a lot to stand firm in their creed, they even fled to the desert and invented monastries'life.In spite of clear idea about one God described in the Holy Book(Genesis & Exodus) they adopted trinity :confused:
Again?Tell me about your FREE islam!Tell me how you live and what came from God and it is not from people?You didn't understand trinity and I tried to explaine it to you.But you still don't got it.About Sharia,they are doing what they want to and what they like to.It is NOT God's order.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by abu maryam 76: about christianty religion ,i knew that human decided a nature of them God after that alost of people beleive in what human decided not what God ordered.
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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Say it to a muslims,they are changing or making a new things in Islam with no order from God.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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[/qb][/QUOTE]Again?Tell me about your FREE islam!Tell me how you live and what came from God and it is not from people?You didn't understand trinity and I tried to explaine it to you. Yes you did three by one , one by three it is easy !! Posts: 90 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Go learn the "only one truth" Quran and go make it very fast because there is probable many things you don't know about.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Marcella: Say it to a muslims,they are changing or making a new things in Islam with no order from God.
ok marcella ,but i think you repeat only what you teach in your church ,you couldn`t prove the idea of trinty or even the crossification in your holy book , and can you explain to me that how can i beleive that the God jesus killed his son who is jesus too to salvated us from adam`s sin?!!? i think it`s unlogic matter!!! Posts: 92 | From: egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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It is a very logic.You just have to understand and don't take everything what people/,muslims are saying.Just use your brain.You will find out.But if you just blindly believe in something that you can't even find for yourself,it will be very hard,of course.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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God is God,Jesus is Jesus-it is not the same "person" And your question about Adam I don't got it.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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^^ Exactly. If you read the bible that you so criticize, they are seperate.
Yshua (jesus) sits on the right side of YHWH's (God's) throne.
He also stated that he was the first creation of God (logos) (god's 1st son) and since he was conceived, he is the only begotten. He's devine, sons of god are a referrance to angels.
Another topic is in-tolerance, if you read the Bible, judging by the actions of some important people including Jesus himself, we should tolerate others, as long as they beleive in ONE god and are decent.
A lot of false doctrines are MAN-MADE, but muslims do the same.
quote:salvated us from adam`s sin?!!? i think it`s unlogic matter!!!
It's "salvated" us from man's sin if you are referring to a certain common belief.
I suggest that from now everyone know what the hell they're talking about! Whether it's your religion, someone elses that your trying to criticize, or anything else.
quote:Originally posted by abu maryam 76: about christianty religion ,i knew that human decided a nature of them God after that alost of people beleive in what human decided not what God ordered.
Whatever that means! LMAOPosts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by jessie: I don't believe i like a 'compassionate and forgiving' God who sends people to hell for eternity.[No parole in Christianity]
God gave man free-will to either be rightous and join him or be wrongful and not join him. Hell is a place where people chose the latter and are seperated from God. The true source of Hell's suffering is seperation from God. [There is parole in Islam]
quote:What Box says: If you read the bible that you so criticize, they are seperate.
Yshua (jesus) sits on the right side of YHWH's (God's) throne.
He also stated that he was the first creation of God (logos) (god's 1st son) and since he was conceived, he is the only begotten. He's devine, sons of god are a referrance to angels.
Another topic is in-tolerance, if you read the Bible, judging by the actions of some important people including Jesus himself, we should tolerate others, as long as they beleive in ONE god and are decent.
A lot of false doctrines are MAN-MADE, but muslims do the same.
Actually when Islam was first conceived and presented by the Prophet Muhammad, it wasn't suppose to be a new religion but one which 'corrected' the mistakes of the past 2 religions (judaism & Christianity) and brought them together as one true faith.
BUT, of course as we all know, things don't work out that way! Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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You are right Abu maryam, Christians decided to form God's nature at the Global confrences held in Nikia and Khalkedonya in the early centuries. Differnt theories were debatable, some were imposed by Roman empire by force. Copts had been suffering a lot to stand firm in their creed, they even fled to the desert and invented monastries'life.In spite of clear idea about one God described in the Holy Book(Genesis & Exodus) they adopted trinity.
Boy Jebran, you and Abu Maryam don't know what your talking about. READ THE BIBLE, ok! You nor Miss Abu Maryam have read the scriptures. Hence, you are ignorant concerning the true character of Jesus Christ. I won't waste time explaining scripture to you. Know this, that people who claimed to be "followers of Jesus Christ" committed astrocities in his name.....ok, fine. That is the truth. It is also true that Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets.......you will know them by their fruits". Jesus, in love, gave his life for humanity. Others, in his holy and righteous name, use his name to promote their agenda...........
Also, this is true. Islam did the exact same thing. I thought your boy Muhammad said, "There is no one above one another Arab above non-Arab, Black above white, ......only people above othes is in regards to righteousness". He said something like that, right? Ok, then why are "Arabized" Black Muslims in Sudan(i.e. Janjaweed) killing other Muslims(non-Arabized Blacks)? The Janjaweed think they are better than the Darfurians cause they have a little Arab blood, that is why!.....
Why did the Arabs that came to Egypt in the seventh century persecute the Fellahin people, even though they had become Muslims????? Because their Arab heritage made them haughty, trampling the rights of the non-Arabs, that is why!
Why do these happen? I know why: because Muslims don't follow their own holy books and commandments! Tell me, why is a Muslim man able to marry a non-Muslim woman, but a Muslim woman is not supposed to marry a non-Muslim man? Why? There is nothing AT ALL in the Koran prohibiting a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim man! What the heck is that about? I'll tell you what it is.....Muslim clerics adding stuff to the "word" of Allah....... If ya'll are gonna try to "diss" Christians and Christianity, do yourself a favor and start with some inward reflection. Salaam(Shalom)
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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GOD NATURE IS TO BE KNOWN THROUGH THE QURAN BY PROPHET MUHAMMED UNDERSTANDING. BECAUSE SIMPLY THIS SACRED BOOK IS PROTECTED BY GOD AND HAS LOTS OF MIRCALES.
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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That's what you believe in but can you prove it? How can you be so sure that Quran is protecting by God and nothing has been changed?Because it's in Quran?I think it's not any proof.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by jessie: I believe in loads of things which i don't like. Hurricanes, tomatoes, rats, wars, stupidity, caviar ......... I don't believe i like a 'compassionate and forgiving' God who sends people to hell for eternity.[No parole in Christianity]
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marcella: [QB] God is God,Jesus is Jesus-it is not the same "person" Very good indeed Marcella, I appreciate what you say. Would you execuse me to ignore that ignorant, idiot so-called Israel, his place must not be here in a such respected Forum.
Posts: 90 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Marcella: That's what you believe in but can you prove it? How can you be so sure that Quran is protecting by God and nothing has been changed?Because it's in Quran?I think it's not any proof.
if people want the truth and searching for it they wil find it.
the fact that Quran isnt subjected to change is clear to all people and there are lots of evidences about it.
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
You think that Quran was never changed.But can you prove it?Because it is in your book doesn't mean that is true.How can you be so sure?!1400 years is 1400 years!
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Marcella: You think that Quran was never changed.But can you prove it?Because it is in your book doesn't mean that is true.How can you be so sure?!1400 years is 1400 years!
what kind of evidence do you need? People are reciting Quran for more 1400 years and none can change it. olden books have the same Quran as the modern books.
there is no evidence that anyone changed Quran. then Quran wasnt changed
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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so what? The Hebrew Bible has been the same for at least 2,000 years(if not 3,000). And lets not forget that the Hindu Vedas have been around and have continually been recited for about 3,000 years. So why not become a Hindu?
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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The last hour won't come before the Muslims would fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them so Jews would hide behind rocks and trees. Then the rocks and trees would call: oh, Muslim, oh, servant of Allah! There is a Jew, behind me, come and kill him." al bukhari 2926 2922
Talking Rocks and Trees.....are you high?
Jews are brothers of apes Tabari VIII:28
Some of the following are paraphrased and directed not only towards jews, but disbelievers. I read in the quran each one before I typed it, yes these words are paraphrased in some, but the idea and point is still the same. I am doing this, only because i do not have enough time to write each one fully out, but rather to express its idea.
Only evil people are disbelievers. 2:99
Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 2:61
Those who reject the proofs, are accursed of Allah. 2:159
Allah turned Sabbath breakers into apes. 2:65-66
Allah has cursed them for their unbelief. 2:88
Disbelievers will be deaf, dumb, and blind. 2:171
How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175
Fight them until "religion is for Allah." 2:193 ( Since muslims will say this is out of context, realize, Fighting is allowed, if someone else starts it, not allowing Islam to move forward is opression, or fighting. You fight those not allowing the religion of Allah march forward, Western Idealogies are not allowing the religion to move forward...that can be seen as the "first punch" so you can fight back)
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends 3:28
Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:73
O you who believer! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people: they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand 3:118
Those are they whom Allah has cursed, and whomever Allah curses you shall not find any helper in him. 4:52
These are they of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts; therefore turn aside from them and admonish them, and speak to them effectual words concerning themselves 4:63
Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76
They desire that you shoule disbeliever as they disbeliever, so that you might be all alike; therefore take them not as friends until they fly in Allahs way; but if they turn back, then seize and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them a friend or a helper 4:89
And when you journet in the earth there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbeliever will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy 4:101
Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous. 5:12-13
Allah has stirred up enmity and hatred among Christians. 5:14
Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33
Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them. 5:51
Jews and Christians are transgressors. 5:59
Most unbelievers are ignorant. 6:111
Those who deny Muhammad's revelation are evil. 7:177
Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. 8:39 (Name one muslim who does not believe Muslims are persecuted throughout the world? Hence, they are allowed to fight the persecutors)
Exhort the believers to fight. They will win easily, because disbelievers are without intelligence. 8:65
Don't make be friends with with your disbelieving family members. Those who do so are wrong-doers. 9:23
Fight against Christians and Jews who disbelieve in Allah, until they pay the tax noting your religion is superior. 9:29
Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 9:73
Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 9:123
So do not follow the unbelievers, and strive against them a mighty striving with it. 25:52
Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy. 60:1
posted by TruthSeeker
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Israel: Come on Islamsweden,
so what? The Hebrew Bible has been the same for at least 2,000 years(if not 3,000). And lets not forget that the Hindu Vedas have been around and have continually been recited for about 3,000 years. So why not become a Hindu?
quote:Originally posted by What Box: God The Eternal and self existant god.
Good, Now, what do Christians mean when they say, Jesus and the father are the same God? they mean that Jesus is self existent and eternal and so is the father?
Also when you guys say Jesus was man and God. If God means eternal and since man of course is not eternal, How do you explain this?
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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According to the Word of God, Christ Jesus was the Word made flesh........He is the living Word, so miracles are a normal experience for people who follow Christ. I have experienced the presence, blessings, and things of God. I still to learning and growing, but I know enough that you ought to come to the faith our of ancestor Abraham. Jesus said in the gospel of John to the Pharisees, "Abraham saw my day and rejoiced". The Pharisees said, "You are not yet fifty, and yet you have seen Abraham?" Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I AM". My friend SwedenIslam, come to the faith of Jesus the Christ. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Marcella: It is a very logic.You just have to understand and don't take everything what people/,muslims are saying.Just use your brain.You will find out.But if you just blindly believe in something that you can't even find for yourself,it will be very hard,of course.
Same as to you, ask and you shall be given,, seek and you shall find the truth
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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You are right Abu maryam, Christians decided to form God's nature at the Global confrences held in Nikia and Khalkedonya in the early centuries. Differnt theories were debatable, some were imposed by Roman empire by force. Copts had been suffering a lot to stand firm in their creed, they even fled to the desert and invented monastries'life.In spite of clear idea about one God described in the Holy Book(Genesis & Exodus) they adopted trinity.
Boy Jebran, you and Abu Maryam don't know what your talking about. READ THE BIBLE, ok! You nor Miss Abu Maryam have read the scriptures. Hence, you are ignorant concerning the true character of Jesus Christ. I won't waste time explaining scripture to you. Know this, that people who claimed to be "followers of Jesus Christ" committed astrocities in his name.....ok, fine. That is the truth. It is also true that Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets.......you will know them by their fruits". Jesus, in love, gave his life for humanity. Others, in his holy and righteous name, use his name to promote their agenda...........
Also, this is true. Islam did the exact same thing. I thought your boy Muhammad said, "There is no one above one another Arab above non-Arab, Black above white, ......only people above othes is in regards to righteousness". He said something like that, right? Ok, then why are "Arabized" Black Muslims in Sudan(i.e. Janjaweed) killing other Muslims(non-Arabized Blacks)? The Janjaweed think they are better than the Darfurians cause they have a little Arab blood, that is why!.....
Why did the Arabs that came to Egypt in the seventh century persecute the Fellahin people, even though they had become Muslims????? Because their Arab heritage made them haughty, trampling the rights of the non-Arabs, that is why!
Why do these happen? I know why: because Muslims don't follow their own holy books and commandments! Tell me, why is a Muslim man able to marry a non-Muslim woman, but a Muslim woman is not supposed to marry a non-Muslim man? Why? There is nothing AT ALL in the Koran prohibiting a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim man! What the heck is that about? I'll tell you what it is.....Muslim clerics adding stuff to the "word" of Allah....... If ya'll are gonna try to "diss" Christians and Christianity, do yourself a favor and start with some inward reflection. Salaam(Shalom)
Are you that shallow tell me why did christians killed christians in WWII or WWI or why did christians in portogaul fought christians in southeren of France when arab "muslims" were in Spain .. you go and read whatever you never read
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Marcella: You think that Quran was never changed.But can you prove it?Because it is in your book doesn't mean that is true.How can you be so sure?!1400 years is 1400 years!
Well, you are not that stupid to argue with this but here is the reason , Quran wasn't a written book when Mohammed(PBUH) was alive he ordered quran not to be written, so actually it was a memorized book, and before Mohammed (PBUH) with about 20-30 yrs (i dunno exactly)the quran was written in "Utham ibn affan" khilafa, they gathered the most trustfull memorizers of the whole quran (they were more than 400 man) to write the quran, none of the 400 nor of all muslims at this time whom might memorize some of the quran versus said they new or conflict with any verse in the quran. further more there is no different copies from quran, there is different recietings but all of the 10 recietings (7+3) have the exact words rather than less than 9 words differ between different recietings, and some of the recietings have the exact words in fact most of them, anyway back to the words that differ between recieting, those words never alter the meaning of the verse, like "fatabayanoo" in "hafes ibn assem" and "fatathabatoo" (in abujafer's recieting), both words means "you have to verify", it is more like when someone says "disappointed" and "disappointement". Anyway I don't know the exact number of words that differ but they are even way less than 9 words in the whole 10 recitings of the Quran, furthermore all of the recietings were upon Mohamed (PBUH) the 10 major recietings were upon him so actually they were read by him as reported, as for other differences in recietings it is in the pronouncement of the letters (more like a dilcate) and what we call (rules of Quran recietings) they differ and none of the words differ nor the meaning is different. You can read more about this issue
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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According to the Word of God, Christ Jesus was the Word made flesh........He is the living Word, so miracles are a normal experience for people who follow Christ. I have experienced the presence, blessings, and things of God. I still to learning and growing, but I know enough that you ought to come to the faith our of ancestor Abraham. Jesus said in the gospel of John to the Pharisees, "Abraham saw my day and rejoiced". The Pharisees said, "You are not yet fifty, and yet you have seen Abraham?" Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I AM". My friend SwedenIslam, come to the faith of Jesus the Christ. Salaam
islam is the religion of abrahem, jesus, Moses and muhammed. i believe in prophet jesus miracles and all prophets mirales. Quran is the miracle of muhammed that is still present to all people.
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bibo1978: [QB] Quran wasn't a written book when Mohammed(PBUH) was alive he ordered quran not to be written, so actually it was a memorized book, _____________________________________________________________________________Thank you bibo for your post, but your above mentioned sentence is not true. Quran have been written from the first moment it has been revealdon prophet Mohamed PBH. There were "katabat al wa7yy", they use to write every verse as soon as it was revealed. They use to write them on ostraca, bones, stone plates, palm "qi7af", animal skins, and any available material. All that beside hundreds of Moslems who memorize the Quran by heart. What was forbidden to be written is Prophet"s &adith. That is why we have troubles with &adith, but at least it has not been confused with Quran. Anyhow this "Topic" was p[osted by Abu maryam to discuss "God"s nature in Christianity" and how it was decieded by some people.While in the holy Book Jesus Christ PBH insists that he is the son of man, and "don't tell me Oh LOrd, but pray to my Lord who envoy me", it means God is God, and Jesus is Jesus, they are differnt according to Marcella.
Posts: 90 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
you muslims dont understand the Trinity. you have different minds from christian's minds. that's your problem
do you want to understand the Trinity ? ask any christian who was Mary conceived of 1- Jesus ? 2- Jesus and the Father ? 3- the Father and the Holy Spirit ? 4- the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit ?
quote:Originally posted by Jebran: [QUOTE]Originally posted by bibo1978: [QB] Quran wasn't a written book when Mohammed(PBUH) was alive he ordered quran not to be written, so actually it was a memorized book, _____________________________________________________________________________Thank you bibo for your post, but your above mentioned sentence is not true. Quran have been written from the first moment it has been revealdon prophet Mohamed PBH. There were "katabat al wa7yy", they use to write every verse as soon as it was revealed. They use to write them on ostraca, bones, stone plates, palm "qi7af", animal skins, and any available material. All that beside hundreds of Moslems who memorize the Quran by heart. What was forbidden to be written is Prophet"s &adith. That is why we have troubles with &adith, but at least it has not been confused with Quran. Anyhow this "Topic" was p[osted by Abu maryam to discuss "God"s nature in Christianity" and how it was decieded by some people.While in the holy Book Jesus Christ PBH insists that he is the son of man, and "don't tell me Oh LOrd, but pray to my Lord who envoy me", it means God is God, and Jesus is Jesus, they are differnt according to Marcella.
thanks for clarification
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Jebran: What was forbidden to be written is Prophet"s &adith. That is why we have troubles with &adith, but at least it has not been confused with Quran.
As we are making clarifications here, can I just comment that it was only at the beginning of the revelation that it was forbidden to write the Hadith down to save them being mixed up with the Qur'an. Later on the Prophet (peace be upon him) permitted the Companions to write them down and even asked them to do so. If you read: Studies in Early Hadith Literature and Studies in Hadith Methodology & Literature by Muhammad Mustafa Azami, you will find a very good detailed explanation about the early stages of the recording of the hadith. I'm sure there must be equally good if not better books in Arabic too.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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