posted
I have been reading alot about Islam and have found it all very interesting.
What I would like to know is..........
1. How do you convert to Islam?
2. How long does it take?
3. What does the process involve?
4. Why is it considered better for an Egyptian Muslim marriage that a woman converts to Islam if he is himself a Muslim?
5. What are the differences in lifestyle for a Western woman when she converts to Islam?
6. What are the views of Muslim women who have converted?
7. What are the views of women who decided not to convert and what if any impact this has had on your marriage?
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
I answered this in the other section, I will also do so here:
Hello Advocate. First let me say how much I am happy that you are considering to convert. I am also a convert and I know the feelings involved in conversion which include fears, confusion, anxiety, excitement, etc. I will try to answer your questions:
1. If you want to convert you can do it one of two ways. First, you can make the profession before God (Allah in Arabic) that you believe there is only one God and that Muhammad (PBUH) is his messenger. If you want to convert in a Mosque you should contact your local mosque and speak with the Imam and ask what you should do for this. If you want to convert before marriage and plan to convert in Egypt then your fieancee might help better with this, where to go, etc. You will be given a document proving your conversion and your identity as a Muslim.
2. Depends on which route you take.
3. See Number 1.
4. Of course any Muslim man would prefer to have a wife who is, herself, Muslim. If you are a convert this can be even more exciting as he could see this as a great opportunity for him to teach you the fundamentals of the religion and feels he could get a great reward for taking a convert into marriage. There are many Egyptian men who have opted for foreign marriages to converts for many reasons, of course they receive the benefit of avoiding many more expensive areas of marriage to a local woman, but they also receive the possibility to move to a different country. AT THE SAME TIME, many are still good and honest & while the things I have just listed are VERY appealing to them, the thought to take a convert wife can be just as appealing and many will cherish their wives for having taken Islam as their religion of choice. (please note: not all but many do) It is not necessary that the woman convert, the Muslim man CAN marry a Christian or Jewish woman.
5. This answer depends on where you will live.
6. I personally find my chosen conversion to Islam to be both rewarding and peaceful. I converted about a year before I met my husband so I set out to marry a Muslim man raised in the religion specifically to help me and hold my hand throughout life and in my further education of Islam. I choose to make Egypt my home hoping I would be more spiritually close to other believers here rather than in America, but I find that was not the case. You do not need to be here for that, all that glitters is not gold, there are many believers in the West, some moreso than here.
7. n/a
A side note: Please do not convert for any reason except your own personal religious beliefs, do not do it for the man, it has happened before and is a mistake. Best of luck.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Oh how exciting, I am a convert(revert) too and I hope that you get the answers you are looking for.
1.It really is very simple to revert, the first step is to just say the shahada (declaration of faith), which is also one of the pillars of Islam, you simply say these words:
la ilaha illallahu Muhammadur Rasulullah.
which means:
There is no God but Allah (God); Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
you can do this in front of two muslims, in a mosque, at home, wherever you like!
2/3. That is it, once you say that you begin your new life as a muslim, your sins from before are wiped clean, a fresh start, there are some things you need to do following this, perhaps read here:
4. Because any children will be brought up in the father's religion and also i would think that it is more harmonious if two people share the same beliefs.
5.I think lifestyle, depends very much on how the western woman lived/thought in the first place. Islam forbids alcohol, eating meat that is not halal, pork. It would require a woman to dress modestly and some cover their hair, obviously everyone has their own idea of what is accepted by God, but as a muslim, everything is done to please God, not ourselves. There is more emphasis on family life and loyalty towards your spouse, which would include no male friends (for a woman) no free mixing of men and women. But please remember that people have their own ideas about what is acceptable, there are set 'rules' of living, not everyone follows all of them, but that is between them and God, no one else to judge.
6. I'm not sure what you mean by this question? If you mean about reverting, then it was the best decision i ever made, it was hard, took about a year to 'settle down' into a different way of life, but i wish i had done it years ago
7. N/A to me
if you would like to chat more or have questions, feel free to pm
p.s, i second what smuckers said, you can only convert because you believe in the shahada, there is no point converting for any other reason, not for you or your future husband as God would not accept it if you dont believe it in your heart. Like Smuckers said, he is able to marry a 'person of the book' (christian or jew) so if you do not believe in One God and the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then you cannot be a muslim, and you cant pretend to believe in something. I wasn't sure i believed in the prophet at first, so i did not revert, even though i changed other things (dress, eating, drinking) I consider the day I reverted the day I knew that it was all true, and i havent looked back since, or ever questioned it again.
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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It is very easy, just say shahada, means to testify that there is only one God, complete in his majesty and beauty, the creator of everything, who has no son, no father, no relatives, because God is absolute, the first without beginning, the last with no end. All the messengers of God are human beings, Allah sent to guide us to the straight way. Jesus Christ(PBH) was created by God exactly the same like Mohamed Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph…etc. To believe that God revealed the Quran and the other books like the Bible. To believe that God has angels, they are slaves obey what God orders. To believe that we live in this world, will die, will be revived again, will stand in the day of judgment, and next life will be either paradise or hell. You are welcome, we are proud of you and congratulations.
Posts: 130 | From: foggy bottom | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote: 6. I'm not sure what you mean by this question? If you mean about reverting, then it was the best decision i ever made, it was hard, took about a year to 'settle down' into a different way of life, but i wish i had done it years ago
Wanderer, why was it the best dicision you ever made?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Bishop warns that Muslims who convert risk being killed
Jamie Doward, home affairs editor Sunday September 16, 2007 The Observer
One of the Church of England's most senior bishops is warning that people will die unless Muslim leaders in Britain speak out in defence of the right to change faith.
Michael Nazir-Ali, the Bishop of Rochester, whose father converted from Islam to Christianity in Pakistan, says he is looking to Muslim leaders in Britain to 'uphold basic civil liberties, including the right for people to believe what they wish to believe and to even change their beliefs if they wish to do so'.
Some Islamic texts brand Muslims who convert to other faiths as 'apostates' and call for them to be punished. Seven of the world's 57 Islamic states - including Iran - impose the death penalty for conversion.
Now Ali, who some see as a potential Archbishop of Canterbury, has told Channel 4's Dispatches programme of his fears about the safety of the estimated 3,000 Muslims who have converted to other faiths in Britain.
'It is very common in the world today, including in this country, for people who have changed their faith, particularly from being Muslim to being Christian, to be ostracised, to lose their job, for their marriages to be dissolved, for children to be taken away,' Ali said. 'And this is why some leadership is necessary from Muslim leaders themselves to say that this is not what Islam teaches.'
The bishop warns that Muslims who switch faiths in Britain could be killed if the current climate continues. 'We have seen honour killings have happened, and there is no reason why this kind of thing cannot happen.'
In 2004, Prince Charles asked British Muslim leaders to renounce laws of apostasy and the death sentence for converts in Islamic countries, but no public statement was ever made.
Dispatches obtained Islamic texts sold in Britain that say the punishment for apostasy is death - according to all four schools of Islamic jurisprudence. One text called for Muslims to cut off the head of those who reject Islam.
The radical Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir, which some in Britain want to see banned, states in its constitution that in countries that practise Sharia law, apostates are to be executed. Its message is disseminated on university campuses across Britain and has found a following among a minority of young Muslims.
A poll of more than 1,000 British Muslims, conducted by the Policy Exchange think-tank this year, found that 36 per cent of Muslims aged between 16 and 24 believe those who convert to another faith should be punished by death.
Sheikh Mogra, a senior member of the Muslim Council for Britain, told Dispatches: 'We live in a country where we respect people's choices. It is not right for any British Muslim to harm in any way whatsoever; to bully them, to intimidate them, to threaten them, is all against Muslim law.'
One convert interviewed for the programme told how his local Muslim community in Bradford closed ranks against him after he switched to Christianity. 'They told me categorically had I been in an Islamic country - Pakistan, Middle East - that they would actually be the first to chop off my head,' he said.
The only people in the whole world today who pray like Jesus (Peace and blessing be upon him), and all the other prophets are the Muslims:
1. Matthew 26:39 “He (Jesus) went a little farther and fell on his face, and prayed, O my father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will”.
2. Psalm 55:17 “Evening and morning and at noon, I will pray and cry aloud: and He shall hear my voice”.
3. Numbers 20:6 “So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and they fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them”. FASTING:
Islam obliges Muslims to fast just as Jesus and the prophets did during their tenure in the world:
1. Matthew 4:2 “And when he (Jesus) had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward hungry”.
2. Exodus 34: 28 “And he (Moses) was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water”.
3. Matthew 6:16 “Moreover when you fast, be not as the hypocrites, with a sad countenance; for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward”
greeting
1. Luke 24:36 “Now as they said these things, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you”.
2. John 20:19 “Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you”. BELIEF IN THE ONENESS OF GOD (ALLAH): Jesus was very explicit in his words about the “Unity of God” instead of the “Holy Trinity” which he never said nor preached in his lifetime:
1. Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you Satan! it is written:” you shall worship the Lord your God, and him only you shall serve”.
2. Mark 12:29 Jesus answered him. “The first of all the commandments is: Hear O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is one”.
3. Isiah 43:10-11 “Before me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior.”
4. John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and of Jesus Christ whom you have sent”.
Ibn 'Umar reports that Allah's Messenger said: Islam is based on (the following) five (principles):
1-To testify that none has the right to be worshiped but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's Messenger. 2-To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly. 3-To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity) . 4-To perform Hajj. (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca) 5-To observe fast during the month of Ramadan. [Bukhari]Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote: 6. I'm not sure what you mean by this question? If you mean about reverting, then it was the best decision i ever made, it was hard, took about a year to 'settle down' into a different way of life, but i wish i had done it years ago
Wanderer, why was it the best dicision you ever made?
Mostly because I feel so much happier now, Its as if i have found where i belong. I know that sounds cliché but its really true. All my life i have felt like a bit of a misfit, trying hard to find the things people do around me funny, trying hard not to be sickened by the way people view relationships and sex. I felt like such a bore around alot of people, because I wanted just to relax and play board games or something, not everything to be about men, sex, going out and getting drunk. Its hard to explain, but in Islam I felt accepted, I found people who had morals, family life was respected and you know what I can honestly say that men (muslim and to my surprise - non muslim) men treat me with more respect since wearing hijab. Its amazing, I just love it
I did find giving up some things a bit difficult at first, and i do miss them sometimes, but hardly ever. I do find fasting and salat difficult too, the discipline, but inshaallah i will get better at it, i would never go back to my old life, not ever.
p.s I'm not saying all muslims have morals and all non muslims dont AT ALL, My family are not muslim, or religious at all, and are very moral, it is individual, but I believe Islam helps people stay on the right track, because its disciplining yourself, and obviously i believe its the right religion.
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Wanderer, why was it the best dicision you ever made?
Mostly because I feel so much happier now, Its as if i have found where i belong. I know that sounds cliché but its really true. All my life i have felt like a bit of a misfit, trying hard to find the things people do around me funny, trying hard not to be sickened by the way people view relationships and sex. I felt like such a bore around alot of people, because I wanted just to relax and play board games or something, not everything to be about men, sex, going out and getting drunk. Its hard to explain, but in Islam I felt accepted, I found people who had morals, family life was respected and you know what I can honestly say that men (muslim and to my surprise - non muslim) men treat me with more respect since wearing hijab. Its amazing, I just love it
I did find giving up some things a bit difficult at first, and i do miss them sometimes, but hardly ever. I do find fasting and salat difficult too, the discipline, but inshaallah i will get better at it, i would never go back to my old life, not ever.
p.s I'm not saying all muslims have morals and all non muslims dont AT ALL, My family are not muslim, or religious at all, and are very moral, it is individual, but I believe Islam helps people stay on the right track, because its disciplining yourself, and obviously i believe its the right religion.
I actually know what you mean by feeling like a misfit. It sounds like it is the life style that attracts you, and to be quite honest I find aspects of it attractive too.
I really don't know enough about Islam to make any comments. I do value the teachings of Jesus and that is why I consider myself a Christian. I don't believe that those teachings are what is promoted in main stream, organized Christianity.
No offense is meant by this but from what little I know it seems that the teachings of Islam revert back to Judaism and the law of Moses. Where as Jesus came to set us free from the law.
Thank you for sharing and please don't take my inquiries as an attack. I really want to have an open discussion to understand for myself.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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of gold, i dont take offence at all and i'm not the best person to talk to, im not very knowledgable about religion, I know what i believed before reverting, and now i just believe in one extra prophet - it was that simple for me, a lot of the other things, alcohol, pork etc, as far as i am concerned these were IN the bible, later man decided he didnt fancy going without so alot of things got changed (thats how i see things).
What keeps me happy is that i know EVERYTHING that God says in Islam is for our own good, i know from experience the problems of alcohol, of sex before marriage etc.
I actually dont see true christianity as that different to islam, I have never believed that God and jesus were one in the same, Jesus prayed - who did he pray to? and i have never accepted that jesus had to die for us, i dont understand that, why would he have to? and original sin? how long would we be punished for that?
I'm not knocking what christians believe, or jews or anyone else, to each their own, but i just know what feels right for me.
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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I was the same Wanderer, even as a Christian I could never figure out the entire trinity thing, God as Jesus, Jesus as God...I found myself praying and I would get mixed up, 'do I pray to God or Jesus?'...then there were the crucifixes in the church, the pictures of Jesus "dying" on the cross , I just felt GOD was so left out. I really tried to be a "good christian" at one time but (is it wrong to say this?) I couldn't get past the God/Jesus issue AND ALSO I couldn't get past the way Christians talk. 'Who is your savior', 'we're all made in gods image', etc. This is not to 'put down' Christians at all, it was just something I always felt WEIRD about, I was never comfortable with the entire lingo and beliefs.
I even tried joining a YOUNG LIFE organization in high school. Does anyone remember those? They were groups formed that would meet after hours in some off grounds location and talk about the Bible (since we couldn't do it in school). I went once....ONCE! It was like a freakish cult where all of the preppy weird kids salavated over your showing up and that movie DISTURBING BEHAVIOR always reminded me of these groups...eahhh... I'll have nightmares tonight.
Once I learned about Islam everything seemed to fit, everything made sense to me. I can't explain why, it was simply that easy. It is like TRYING SO HARD to figure out a math problem and when you finally GET IT you are so relieved. That's how it felt to me. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Once I learned about Islam everything seemed to fit, everything made sense to me. I can't explain why, it was simply that easy. It is like TRYING SO HARD to figure out a math problem and when you finally GET IT you are so relieved. That's how it felt to me.
Really everything made sense to you !!! wish to tell us when and how the 5 daily prayers imposed!? Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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may it was in the Jesus Era but the christian do not care about what Jesus was doing.
quote:Carrying out Prayer (Prostration):
The only people in the whole world today who pray like Jesus (Peace and blessing be upon him), and all the other prophets are the Muslims:
1. Matthew 26:39 “He (Jesus) went a little farther and fell on his face, and prayed, O my father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will”.
2. Psalm 55:17 “Evening and morning and at noon, I will pray and cry aloud: and He shall hear my voice”.
3. Numbers 20:6 “So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and they fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them”.
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by 7'offash: may it was in the Jesus Era but the christian do not care about what Jesus was doing.
quote:Carrying out Prayer (Prostration):
The only people in the whole world today who pray like Jesus (Peace and blessing be upon him), and all the other prophets are the Muslims:
1. Matthew 26:39 “He (Jesus) went a little farther and fell on his face, and prayed, O my father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will”.
2. Psalm 55:17 “Evening and morning and at noon, I will pray and cry aloud: and He shall hear my voice”.
3. Numbers 20:6 “So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and they fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them”.
O Hypocrite,now the Bible not corrupted Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Once I learned about Islam everything seemed to fit, everything made sense to me. I can't explain why, it was simply that easy. It is like TRYING SO HARD to figure out a math problem and when you finally GET IT you are so relieved. That's how it felt to me.
Really everything made sense to you !!! wish to tell us when and how the 5 daily prayers imposed!?
Not really since you are only interested in making yourself better by trying to tear others down. If you REALLY were happy with your own beliefs (or lack thereof) you wouldn't be so hell bent on pushing people down into the mud. Good luck with your agenda though. Peace~
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote:Originally posted by freshsoda:
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Once I learned about Islam everything seemed to fit, everything made sense to me. I can't explain why, it was simply that easy. It is like TRYING SO HARD to figure out a math problem and when you finally GET IT you are so relieved. That's how it felt to me.
Really everything made sense to you !!! wish to tell us when and how the 5 daily prayers imposed!?
Not really since you are only interested in making yourself better by trying to tear others down. If you REALLY were happy with your own beliefs (or lack thereof) you wouldn't be so hell bent on pushing people down into the mud. Good luck with your agenda though. Peace~
Well said, I think the same applies to 7'offash too!! Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Not really since you are only interested in making yourself better by trying to tear others down. If you REALLY were happy with your own beliefs (or lack thereof) you wouldn't be so hell bent on pushing people down into the mud. Good luck with your agenda though. Peace~
you mentioned that Christianity faith you felt WEIRD about,was never comfortable with the entire lingo and beliefs and then you mentioned everything in Islam seemed to fit and made sense so I asked you simple question on the main pillar of Islam to explain your new faith that you found it logically and made sense ,I don't have agenda you are sharing your thougths with people you don't know and me doing the same.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote: I don't have agenda you are sharing your thougths with people you don't know and me doing the same.
Sharing your thoughts is how people get to know each other. This is called communication.
quote: of gold, i dont take offence at all and i'm not the best person to talk to, im not very knowledgable about religion, I know what i believed before reverting, and now i just believe in one extra prophet - it was that simple for me, a lot of the other things, alcohol, pork etc, as far as i am concerned these were IN the bible, later man decided he didnt fancy going without so alot of things got changed (thats how i see things).
What keeps me happy is that i know EVERYTHING that God says in Islam is for our own good, i know from experience the problems of alcohol, of sex before marriage etc.
I actually dont see true christianity as that different to islam, I have never believed that God and jesus were one in the same, Jesus prayed - who did he pray to? and i have never accepted that jesus had to die for us, i dont understand that, why would he have to? and original sin? how long would we be punished for that?
I'm not knocking what christians believe, or jews or anyone else, to each their own, but i just know what feels right for me.
This makes perfect sense to me Wanderer. If everyone would view religion and beliefs this way we would have a more peaceful world.
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I was the same Wanderer, even as a Christian I could never figure out the entire trinity thing, God as Jesus, Jesus as God...I found myself praying and I would get mixed up, 'do I pray to God or Jesus?'...then there were the crucifixes in the church, the pictures of Jesus "dying" on the cross , I just felt GOD was so left out. I really tried to be a "good christian" at one time but (is it wrong to say this?) I couldn't get past the God/Jesus issue AND ALSO I couldn't get past the way Christians talk. 'Who is your savior', 'we're all made in gods image', etc. This is not to 'put down' Christians at all, it was just something I always felt WEIRD about, I was never comfortable with the entire lingo and beliefs.
I even tried joining a YOUNG LIFE organization in high school. Does anyone remember those? They were groups formed that would meet after hours in some off grounds location and talk about the Bible (since we couldn't do it in school). I went once....ONCE! It was like a freakish cult where all of the preppy weird kids salavated over your showing up and that movie DISTURBING BEHAVIOR always reminded me of these groups...eahhh... I'll have nightmares tonight.
Once I learned about Islam everything seemed to fit, everything made sense to me. I can't explain why, it was simply that easy. It is like TRYING SO HARD to figure out a math problem and when you finally GET IT you are so relieved. That's how it felt to me.
In response to Wanderer and Smuckers:
I don't know very much about Islam but I do have Muslim friends who are nothing like the stereo type you are lead to believe here.
I used to believe that Jesus was the only way. Now I hold the view that God is bigger than religion and religion is mans feeble attempt to understand what we cannot comprehend.
This is how I understood the trinity: say for example take an orange and peel the skin and set it down, then take the seeds out and set them down, then put the meat in a separate pile from the skin and seeds. Now which is the orange? Not one of them but all of them together make up the orange. Personally I have felt a disappointment with religion. I have boycotted church. I don't believe that what main stream Christianity offers is really what Jesus was teaching.
I do believe in the teachings of Jesus and this is where I wonder about those who convert from Christianity to Islam. I say this because what Jesus taught is that we are no longer under the law and Islam seems to be all about putting yourself under the law. With this said, I do understand that the law is good but I also know that people can pray all they want and have a black heart. (look at the terrorist or Christians who do bad things for that matter).
So this goes back to the teachings of Jesus that it is not of works least any man should boast. For example you can give to the poor because you are forced to, or you can give to the pure out of a giving heart...
I do see how there can be a comfort in Islam but I also see how it can be oppressive. I see the same with modern Christianity and that is why I boycotted the church. The preacher saying that I had to do this and that for Jesus....I felt that I was so weak and realized that I could not do anything for God, he does it all for me.
I see the value in taking a break to pray and how it can bring peace, but then again I can see and feel the fear in the thought that you Have to pray 5 times a day or God will send you to hell.
Ultimately what I want is Peace...Peace in the world and Peace in my heart. Easy to say, harder to achieve.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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I have just learned in my Arabic class that Allah, actually means "The God". I like it.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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of_gold, I dont think that God will send us to hell for not praying 5 times a day, and only that, I also dont believe that any of us can say who will go to heaven or hell.
I do believe the 'rules' and praying 5 times a day help us to stay focused and not let things slip. It is so easy to slip off track, as humans we are weak, and i believe that is the argument for the discipline in Islam.
I agree with you about doing nice things because you just want to, but if you also feel that it is your duty to do nice things for each other, and God, and that God will reward you, it does motivate you more. I suppose its a bit like knowing what you are doing is recognised, we all need that, its what keeps us going.
How many people would work without pay? would children try hard at school without rewarding stickers and incentives, its just how we as humans are.
Even animals respond to rewards.
What about when you help someone and they are ungrateful? would you do it again? not likely if it is their reward you want, but if you are doing it for a reward from God then, yes, you do it again.
Is it done for the reward though or to avoid punishment.
I remember feeling so bound up that if I had a wrong thought I felt that God was going to punish me. For me in this situation it was almost like having to stand in one spot and hold my breath to keep from sinning or God was waiting to whack me or something.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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After thinking about this a little more, I realized that I do believe that we get rewarded for what we do. You reap what you sew..... But when Jesus saw the scribes and Pharisees he basically said that they looked good on the outside but inside they were full of dead men's bones. He also said that they made fair speeches to deceive the hearts of the simple.
Do you remember the story of the lady who gave just a few coins and Jesus watched her. The disciples said why are you watching her, look at all the wealth these other are giving. He then said that she gave more than all of them put together because they gave from their wealth and she gave from her desire to give.
Another example would be about adultery...Thou shall not commit adultery, but I say unto you if you look upon a woman to lust after her you have already committed adultery with her in your heart.
Other things too, like coveting or when he healed on the Sabbath.
I apologize for not knowing what Muhammed did. Do you know why the terrorist believe that they are following his teachings? The little that I have read of the quran said that this was not of God.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Newcomer would probably be best answering these questions, but i believe the terrorist question is because in the qur'an it says 'kill the infidils' but is taken out of context when the sura it is in is speaking of war.
Obviously if you are at war, you are going to be killing those people you are at war with, but unfortunately terrorists ignore other parts that say not to kill women, children or the elderly (even at war)
like i said, i have very limited understanding...someone please rescue me
posted
What books would you suggest that explains Islam and the expectations of it's followers, something simple to start with please.
I am reading so many websites that I would prefer to have a book where all the information is all held within one pleace.
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Do you know why the terrorist believe that they are following his teachings? The little that I have read of the quran said that this was not of God.
Hi of_gold!
This is not a question I can answer easily as I cannot answer understand how these people think; the concepts and ideas that they have are so foreign to my understanding of Islam that I cannot justify or explain it to you. But in response to your question, I had a look around the internet try and get an answer for you. There are many Muslims of varying degrees of knowledge and from various backgrounds who have spoken out against terrorism, and here is a list of some of them that you might find useful to have a look at: http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.phpPosts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by advocate: What books would you suggest that explains Islam and the expectations of it's followers, something simple to start with please.
I am reading so many websites that I would prefer to have a book where all the information is all held within one pleace.
Hi advocate!
The only book I have come across that gives a quick Islam 101 for those who are interested in getting an overall view of Islam, its practices, ideas, and history is "Islam: Beliefs and Teachings" by Ghulam Sarwar . It's one I have a particular affection for as I was actually reading it to find out more about Islam when I realized that I had become a Muslim and wanted to take my shahadah No one small book can give the whole picture or all the perspectives about this religion, and this book is written from the perspective of one of schools of Islam, the Hanafi school, but as it is the one most commonly followed by the Pakistanis in the UK and also many people here in Egypt it will be useful for you to read. In further reading you may come across some very minor differences in things like the way to pray, but in general, it's a good basic book.
I would also suggest that you try to read a good translation of the Qur'an. The one that I like best is the The Qur'an by Saheeh International. It's written in a clear way with some simple footnotes.
I would also suggest that you read a good book on the life of the Prophet. This one is quite detailed but a good comprehensive book: Life of Muhammad by Muhammad Haykal and this is another one: The Sealed Nectar
If you can read these three books, they will give you a good overall basis that will help to put any other reading you do about Islam in context.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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There is one called 'islam for children' that is a nice start, i think it is better to start with these sort of books because they explain things from the beginning rather than going into too much detail, then you can build on knowledge as you go.
I am going to look around for you and see what i can find, I found it hard to find a good book that was simple and easy to read without being too complicated, i think i did build up knowledge from bits here and there, but you are right to be cautious of the internet.
maybe the best start would be the dawah foundations, they usually have very cheap books, which are a good start, you can get a copy of the qur'an translated.
I just had another look at the site, and yes I would advise to start here for basics, that way you can get an overview of lots of different aspects of Islam without spending too much money.
Other speakers which I like, and you may find some clips on this site or perhaps you tube, are:
posted
Thank you newcomer, there is a lot of information on that site.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by advocate: What books would you suggest that explains Islam and the expectations of it's followers, something simple to start with please.
I am reading so many websites that I would prefer to have a book where all the information is all held within one pleace.
posted
I haven't actually read this Idiots Guide to Islam, but there was something circulating round on the internet from it a couple of years back...some story about how mosques got their name. He was claiming that the word was first used during the Christian invasion of Muslim Spain in the 15th century when King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella boasted they would swat out Muslim prayer houses like mosquitoes! There were long discussions about how this was incorrect. But its worth being aware when you are reading it that some stuff may not have been researched as well as it could have been.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: I haven't actually read this Idiots Guide to Islam, but there was something circulating round on the internet from it a couple of years back...some story about how mosques got their name. He was claiming that the word was first used during the Christian invasion of Muslim Spain in the 15th century when King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella boasted they would swat out Muslim prayer houses like mosquitoes! There were long discussions about how this was incorrect. But its worth being aware when you are reading it that some stuff may not have been researched as well as it could have been.
Ah so that's where it comes from! I heard about this when I went to a Mosque in Germany and the Imam told me I shouldn't call it that, but should use the name Masjid. Nobody I know in England had a clue what I was talking about Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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Question: There is a book entitled The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Understanding Islam. It discusses within it many things, including the etymology of the word “mosque”. It says that this word is derived from the Spanish word for “mosquito”. It claims that the word was first used during the Christian invasion of Muslim Spain in the 15th century when the forces of King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella boasted they would swat out Muslim prayer houses like so many mosquitoes. Is this true?
Answered by the Scientific Research Committee - IslamToday.net
This etymology is incorrect.
The Spanish word for "mosquito" is mosquito and literally means “little fly”. This is a case where the English language borrowed the word directly from the Spanish.
The word for “fly” in Spanish is mosca, which is derived from the Latin musca. The diminutive suffix “-ito” is attached to it to form the word mosquito or “little fly”.
The Spanish term for “mosque” is mezquita, derived from the old Spanish mesquita. This word was most certainly derived from the Arabic word masjid, which many Arabs then and now pronounce as masgid.
In Spain during the era of Muslim rule – and this was before the time of King Ferdinand – Spanish speakers were using the word mosquito for the insect and the word mesquita for the Muslim place of worship. The two words are not related to one another in any way.
The word “mosque” was introduced into the English language in the late 14th or early 15th century from the French. It comes from the French word mosquée from the old French word mousquaie. The French, in turn, derived the word from the Italian word moschea from moscheta. The Italians got it either directly from the Arabic word masjid or from the old Spanish mesquita.
(http://www.islamtoday.com/fat_archives/show_detail.cfm?q_id=676&main_cat_id=20)[This is an old link and not working now]
quote:Originally posted by pure spring: It is very easy, just say shahada, means to testify that there is only one God, complete in his majesty and beauty, the creator of everything, who has no son, no father, no relatives, because God is absolute, the first without beginning, the last with no end. All the messengers of God are human beings, Allah sent to guide us to the straight way. Jesus Christ(PBH) was created by God exactly the same like Mohamed Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph…etc. To believe that God revealed the Quran and the other books like the Bible. To believe that God has angels, they are slaves obey what God orders. To believe that we live in this world, will die, will be revived again, will stand in the day of judgment, and next life will be either paradise or hell. You are welcome, we are proud of you and congratulations.
I have been rereading post on this thread and have some comments/questions about this one.
quote: testify that there is only one God, complete in his majesty and beauty, the creator of everything, who has no son, no father, no relatives, because God is absolute, the first without beginning, the last with no end.
Here I am pretty much on board with...I do belive that God is the beginning and the end, the alpha and omaga. I think God is above our comprehension and religion is mans way to try and grasp a small understanding...I will say that I have reservations about saying he has no sons simply because I belive that we came from God, he created us in his image, and that God breathed the breath of life into Adam. But for the purpose of discussion here I can accept this.
quote: Allah sent to guide us to the straight way. Jesus Christ(PBH) was created by God exactly the same like Mohamed Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph…etc. To believe that God revealed the Quran and the other books like the Bible.
This I have more trouble believing and this is why. If you believe Jesus to be one of Gods profits then how can you believe Mohamed to be?
Jesus came to free us from the curse of the law. "The strength of sin is the law, the curse of sin is death" another scripture says " "I had not known sin except the law said thou shall not covet" Then another says "If you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? It is written if you do not obey in every jot and tittle you are guilty of all"
What I am trying to explain is that Moses brought the law...Jesus freed us from the law...then it appears that Mohammad put us back under it. What purpose would God have to do this?
Another thing that I question (and again, I do not know or claim to know all about Mohammad.) It seems that he did some things that I would not think a profit would do. The one that I don't know how anyone can justify is him sleeping with a child. Correct me if I am wrong but this is what I have heard
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Aisha was not a child when the marriage was consummated, only when it was planned, which is pretty usual for those times. Remember the Virgin Mary was about 14 years old when she had Jesus, pbuh.
Even today, my grandmother was married at 14 years old back in the 1920's. It's only recently that it's in style to wait until your mid twenties/thirties to get married.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Aisha was not a child when the marriage was consummated, only when it was planned, which is pretty usual for those times. Remember the Virgin Mary was about 14 years old when she had Jesus, pbuh.
Even today, my grandmother was married at 14 years old back in the 1920's. It's only recently that it's in style to wait until your mid twenties/thirties to get married.
But Aisha was only 9 years old according to Sahih Bukhari and Muslim the most reliable sources of Sunna Hadith while p.Muhammed was almost 50 years or above !!!!!!
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house.
There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage).
Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
Marrying a child cannot be defended on cultural grounds.The issue remains as to whether or not Muhammad acted rightly in marrying a NINE years old CHILD while according to Islam Muhammad is the perfection of humanity and the prototype of the most wonderful human conduct Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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Anyways,,, back on topic, another good book that I read in the beginning was "Beyond Mere Christianity", by Brandon Toropov. It actually was a big eye opener for me being Catholic at the time.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
doodlebug, I went to the link you gave, read it and looked up the scriptures it was referring to. The website claims that the men raped 3 year olds. But the scripture that he used to back this claim does not say that.
This is what it says: 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
As far as all of the killing goes, I agree that it is awful, it was in the Old Testament. The Old Testament was about the Law, An eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. Jesus taught that we are under grace. He came to fulfill the law. You can't look in the old Testament and find the teachings of Jesus.
Also, the site that you referred to states that people lived to only 40 or 50 years. Yet he claims that Joseph was 90. I tried to find out how old Joseph was but could not.
Maybe it was practiced to Marry 9 year old girls at that time. I don't claim to know this. Do you know of anything that shows this to be factual? I believe that girls mature earlier today then back then. I was reading the verses from the Quran that told about this and it says that she was out swinging on a swing with her friends. I know that when I was 9, I had no clue. Honestly, I had no clue at 16. I have a friend with an 8 year old son. He is not even half way grown, mentally or physically.
It is just so hard to comprehend how this could be right. What would you think if a 50 year old man wanted to marry your 9 year old daughter? I am not condemning at this point, just trying to comprehend, and understand how people justify it. I know that there are many good teachings in the Quran.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I don't know how it was back then either but I showed you the example of my grandmother who was married at age 14 and that was only in the 1920's and even my husband's mother was only 13 when she herself was married to his father who was in his mid 30's so I guess knowing this coupled with knowing that there were no objections to Aisha's marriage (I mean her parents were the ones to actually condone it and she was actually engaged to someone ELSE before it meaning she was engaged before the age of 6) it doesn't really phase me.
I can't compare now to then since when I look at my own daughters I cannot fathom them being married and pregnant at 13 or 14. Mary was anywhere between 11 and 15 when she had Jesus so would God Himself impregnate someone who was not physically or mentally ready?
Anyway I just hate when there is a discussion about Islam and then WHAM someone pulls out the pedophile card. If he was a pedophile why is the hadith right there in plain view and why are there no reports of people back then being enraged about it??? For sure someone in this day and age would have had a few people beating on them if that happened today because it's socially wrong in the 21st century but in the times that they lived it wasn't socially wrong.
Also, in all of the hadiths that I have read from Aisha I have not once read anything that said she was frightened of him or resented him. Surely a victim would have had a HUGE amount of pent up hatred or venom for someone who did them wrong, no? And I'm sure all of those who try to prove Islam wrong would have come up with at least one quote from her stating that she had been abused in some fashion if it were true.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by of_gold: I will say that I have reservations about saying he has no sons simply because I belive that we came from God, he created us in his image,.........................................................................................................................Thank you of_gold, for your comments, I am sorry to delay for internet troubles. Execuse me to recomment, We are neither sons of God nor as his image, simply because we are God's hand made, and nothing looks like God.We are created on our own image exactly the same like Adam's. We have parts because we need ours, God has no parts "Allahu ussamad", and when God talks about his hands or eys or ears, this is to boost the idea to man's limited understtanding. We have belly, stomach, legs, intestins,kidny, etc.... we need to eat and go to WC, God doesn't need because God is perfect and absolute, God is complete in majesty and beaty. Everything we imagine about God, God is completly deferent. God expresses himself in the Quran sying;"Allhu nooro asamawati wal ardh" means that God is the light of heavens and earth. You can't see light but you can see what light lightens.
Posts: 130 | From: foggy bottom | Registered: Apr 2007
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by of_gold: [This I have more trouble believing and this is why. If you believe Jesus to be one of Gods profits then how can you believe Mohamed to be?
Jesus came to free us from the curse of the law. "The strength of sin is the law, the curse of sin is death" another scripture says " "I had not known sin except the law said thou shall not covet" Then another says "If you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? It is written if you do not obey in every jot and tittle you are guilty of all" ==================================================================================================================================================== Moses PBH was sent to the sons of Israel, no one else is obliged to follow exactly the same like Jesus PBH.Jesus said; I did not come to demolish the Old Test., I came to complete it. So, where is trinity in the Old Test.? why sombody like Jesus PBH has to pay the sin after several hundred years? what about ppl who died before him? and is it fair according to any Law in the world to punish a son for his father's mistake? or kill a father because of his son's crimes? if you say no, it is not fair and you do not accept it or modern Law, why you accept it for Adam and Jesus PBT?. Moreover God had to punish all the sons of Adam because of his sin, God did not find any other way except for giving his own son (who is God himself in the same time) to his enemy to kill him (or to kill God himself) on the cross in order to forgive all mankind who did not make any mistake except one person; their father, is that logical? Posts: 130 | From: foggy bottom | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Mary was anywhere between 11 and 15 when she had Jesus so would God Himself impregnate someone who was not physically or mentally ready?
Then who is Jesus's father?!
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Mary was anywhere between 11 and 15 when she had Jesus so would God Himself impregnate someone who was not physically or mentally ready?
Then who is Jesus's father?!
Jesus, pbuh, and Adam, pbuh, have no father. They were both created by God without a man involved.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Jesus is a Spirit proceeding from God and his own Word incarnated as human same as Sura 19:17, while Adam was given life by God's Spirit and was created by God's command like other animals in the beginning of creation so there is no miracle occurred while Jesus breached the natural law this is why it considered miracle.
Did god created his spirit?!! God’s Word is eternal,Jesus is God’s Word.Therefore,Jesus is eternal while Adam not God's word so he isn't eternal.
Jesus ascended alive while Adam died.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote: And I'm sure all of those who try to prove Islam wrong would have come up with at least one quote from her stating that she had been abused in some fashion if it were true. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doodlebug, I am not trying to prove any religion right or wrong. I question all. Although, I do consider myself a Christian because I believe in the teachings of Jesus. I have questions about Christianity too. So, please don't take my questions as condemnation. I know the New Testament extremely well. So yes, that is what I quote from. There is a scripture that says "Come let us reason together saith the Lord, though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white as snow." I feel that is what we are doing, reasoning together, and from my perspective, everyone who is posting here is being considerate of each other.
quote:Originally posted by pure spring: [QUOTE]Originally posted by of_gold: I will say that I have reservations about saying he has no sons simply because I belive that we came from God, he created us in his image,.........................................................................................................................Thank you of_gold, for your comments, I am sorry to delay for internet troubles. Execuse me to recomment, We are neither sons of God nor as his image, simply because we are God's hand made, and nothing looks like God.We are created on our own image exactly the same like Adam's. We have parts because we need ours, God has no parts "Allahu ussamad", and when God talks about his hands or eys or ears, this is to boost the idea to man's limited understtanding. We have belly, stomach, legs, intestins,kidny, etc.... we need to eat and go to WC, God doesn't need because God is perfect and absolute, God is complete in majesty and beaty. Everything we imagine about God, God is completly deferent. God expresses himself in the Quran sying;"Allhu nooro asamawati wal ardh" means that God is the light of heavens and earth. You can't see light but you can see what light lightens.
Your Welcome pure spring. Thank You, for your willingness to have a discussion.
Part of what you are saying I agree with whole heartily. I to believe that God is perfect and absolute, God is complete in majesty and beauty. I do not believe that our flesh is in the image of God, but that our spirit is.
When our physical body is alive, it is moving and animated. But at death it is no longer animated. What has changed? The chemical compound is exactly the same, yet no man can create a human being even though the elements to make one are available.
I believe that it is our spirit that animates our human form and it is our spirit that is our true self. I also believe that our spirit is what is in the image of God and when we die the flesh turns to dust and the spirit goes back to God. The bible speaks of one body having many members.
This theory does not negate the idea that God is perfect and absolute.
The bible also says that we see through a darkened glass but then we shall see things clearly. I think religion is part of that darkened glass. I don't think we can comprehend the true Majesty of God so we are given something we can comprehend, "religion" and also nature and the laws of nature.
For instance: Matter can neither be created or destroyed it just changes its form. Energy can neither be created or destroyed, it just changes its expression.
We are; matter and energy.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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of_gold, I didn't mean to say that you were trying to attack Islam...what I was trying to say is that I have not found anything written stating that Aisha said she felt abused, etc. My point was that there are so many sites out on the net attacking islam that surely one of them would have drudged that up if one existed.
It wasn't meant to mean that you personally are one of these people. Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by of_gold: Your Welcome pure spring. Thank You, for your willingness to have a discussion.
Part of what you are saying I agree with whole heartily. I to believe that God is perfect and absolute, God is complete in majesty and beauty. I do not believe that our flesh is in the image of God, but that our spirit is. ============ ============ ========== ============ ================= ============= Thank you dear for your kindness, I am glad that we exchange views. I confess I know nothing about your idea that our spirit is like God's.According Quran, the spirit can not be understood by human beings.I also respect the Bible; the word of God (SWT)
Posts: 130 | From: foggy bottom | Registered: Apr 2007
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