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im not funnin islam or nothin can someone respectfully answer this!!! no smart replies i never come into religion section usless i need to ok here goes!!
Men in islam can have upto 4 wives!!we know this now how many of u men here would acturally do this? see that is y i cant be muslim cas i cant agrre on certain things in islam!! but i do respect his religion and in anyway dont wanna disrespect it!! but i wanna hear the views of men and women!!! but mostly men why would u want for wives? if u said u would! is it for sex? and women i know some of u are 50 plus here and u marry a younger man!! if he wanted a second wife would u let hi to have kids?? someone can clarify some things for me me and walid have discussed this issue many times. he swore many times he would never take another wife!wethere we have kids or not! would i be being fair to him in not lettin him have kids? this is a big deal some people make it to be a small deal!but as a western woman geeez i could never let my husband have another woman in his bed!!!!!
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Tina, some of the men will take another wife , to help her , if his brother died , to make sure her and her children are tsken care of , some take for other reasons , but you know when you marry , you can have in the marriage contract , he cannot take another wife , the first wife i believe has to agree to a second wife , and for a older woman marrying a younger man , that is me , and no i would not agree to him taking another wife for children , he knows what is on the table before he eats ! And i am not sharing ! LOL
peace..
-------------------- Cheryl Hise Posts: 68 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: see that is y i cant be muslim cas i cant agrre on certain things in islam!!
The word Islam means the willing, loving surrender to God. You accept Islam not because you agree to everything in it. You accept Islam because you read the Quran and realized without a doubt that it is the Word of God.
God expresses this beautifully in 5:83, "And when they hear what has been sent down to the messenger, you see their eyes overflowing with tears from what they recognized of the truth; they say 'our Lord, we believe so register us with the witnesses.'"
Posts: 15 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2008
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The first wife doesn't have to agree, she has to be informed. When she doesn't want to accept, she can file for a divorce. There aren't always noble reasons for having a second, third or fourth wife and I don't know one Egyptian woman who was pleased to know that her husband decided to marry another woman. They all were angry and felt humiliated, disgraced, putted aside because they weren't good enough anymore.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I guess I don't fit into any of your categories, Tina, but I am gonna answer anyways. I am over 50,but hubby is older than me.
it is my understanding of Islam that the verses that you are referring to allows a man to have up to 4 wives, but it is followed quickly - but you have to treat them all equally. Now...this is humanly impossible.
for instance - you have 4 children, and as their mom, you are supposed to love them all equally. But as a human being - this is impossible - there will always be 1 that is your fave, for one reason or another. Same with wives. There will always be 1 that you are closer to, or have more affection for or whatever.
and if you were able to view them all equally, then you would fall short on some financial responsibility or other. Like buying them all the same clothing, or the same car, or the same jewelry, or giving the same exact amount of time, or sex or whatever. its humanly impossible, IMHO.
And my hubby says that 1 of me is MORE than enough for any man to handle - that he would be suicidally bent to want more than 1.
Posts: 1103 | From: 6th of October | Registered: Jun 2007
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yes like they said i would have to accept everything in islam wethere a contract or not!! i cant condone somethin i am against there are so many factors? so if i disagree with this and much more there for i cant be muslim in gods eyes?? like the 4 wives and i cant think now like eatting pork and a few more i dont hate islam but how can i understand somethin i was not raides as myself!!
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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First of all Tina...Muslims are human -they are not perfect. I am FAR from perfect,myself. I know Muslims that drink alcohol. Why they do that when Islam says that you should not drink alcohol is something that they will deal with, and answer to. Its not up to me to judge them - thats God's job ! I don't know many muslims that have more than 1 wife - but I do know a few. Whatever works for them, doesn't necessarily work for everyone. You don't have to take all of these rules all at once, and swallow them all at once, and turn yourself upside down to comply all at once. Its a lifelong trip. The alcohol thing didn't come from God in one fell swoop - it was brought on in stages. I,myself, don't eat pork. It was hard at first, but respecting my hubby's wishes (after marriage and prior to converting), and being too darn lazy to cook 2 different meals, I just didn't pursue it. There were beef sausages, and bacon, so it was not a biggie. Although, to this day, I would LOVE to have some spare ribs..lol But, I ain't gonna die of a broken heart cuz I don't eat them. Its all about choices, and what you feel comfy with. Take it in stages. There is not a rush to be Mrs. Super Muslim overnight. Study. Research. See things for yourself. See how you feel. And if its right, and If God means it to happen, then it will happen.
Posts: 1103 | From: 6th of October | Registered: Jun 2007
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thanks for yr reply!! i do really wanna respect his religion!! and not to offend him i can live without pork thats not a big issue its just one of them!! i sometimes think ooooooo god what can i do or cant to what is respectful and not in islam? i dont wanna do somethin thats a habbit here in usa for me that is against what they do in egypt!
it would be better for some of yal to explain some of our habbits in usa that is not good for me in egypt
what is some do and donts in islam that we do here everyday i dont wanna sound like im repeating myself but im tryin to word it so u would understand what im askin lol
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Did he become interested in you as you are today? I mean -did he fall in love with you as you are right now? Why do you think that you have to change for him? Would he like this new woman that you are striving to become?
Some women I know, have turned themselves upside down to become what they think that this man wants, only to find that what he wanted was the way you were initially. just food for thought.
Posts: 1103 | From: 6th of October | Registered: Jun 2007
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I feel the same as Tina. I try to respect islam as much as I can, but when the 4 wives thing comes up I just have to roll my eyes. I know I'd never want 4 husbands so why would a man want 4 wives? Just seems weird to me.
Posts: 82 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by jean_bean: Did he become interested in you as you are today? I mean -did he fall in love with you as you are right now? Why do you think that you have to change for him? Would he like this new woman that you are striving to become?
Some women I know, have turned themselves upside down to become what they think that this man wants, only to find that what he wanted was the way you were initially. just food for thought.
oooooooo god no i dont wanna change he loves me as i am!! i never said i wanted to change!! hell no never!!! what i mean is i wanna learn more about somethings in islam so i dont disrect it there when we get married!!! he would never ask me to change in any way!! the best people to ask are the women who are not muslim that are married to a muslim thank knows the dos and donts as a wife of a muslim!! like for example>>if i wanna eat prok chops i will have enough respect to use a different pan then his!!i would buy one for the pork!!! and i would cook it when he wasnt home!! so it dont offend him thats one example!!!!
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.188) Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.
Posts: 366 | From: some day | Registered: Dec 2007
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Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 5, Number 282 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/005.sbt.html#001.005.282) The Prophet used to visit all his wives in one night and he had nine wives at that time.
Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 77, Number 594 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/077.sbt.html#008.077.594) The Prophet said, "Allah puts an angel in charge of the uterus and the angel says, 'O Lord, (it is) semen! O Lord, (it is now ) a clot! O Lord, (it is now) a piece of flesh.' And then, if Allah wishes to complete its creation, the angel asks, 'O Lord, (will it be) a male or a female? A wretched (an evil doer) or a blessed (doer of good)? How much will his provisions be? What will his age be?' So all that is written while the creature is still in the mother's womb."
Posts: 366 | From: some day | Registered: Dec 2007
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Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 68: (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/073.sbt.html#008.073.068) The Prophet forbade laughing at a person who passes wind, and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?" And Hisham said, "As he beats his slave"
Posts: 366 | From: some day | Registered: Dec 2007
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Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.188) Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.
and whats that suppose to mean??
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.188) Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.
Rubbish!! That monkey was married! Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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if you are in Egypt you can buy beef bacon. Not the exact same but it does if you like the smoked taste. I gave all pork up and it was no big deal at all, mainly because my diet changes drastically when I moved here. Everything is cooked fresh daily so not like in the US etc.
The Quran talks of the 4 wives thing.
Here is the verse
"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one." [Al-Qur'an 4:3]
what most moslems especially male will not include in the argument is the verse further down the chapter
"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Qur'an 4:129]
So God is saying clearly that you will NEVER be able to be fair.
It is very clear but moslems of today dont really look much to the simplicity of the Quran and its message. They prefer read hadith instead.
Bottom line Tina is
If the Quranic verse is saying ' and you can NEVER' in Gods own words then you can be pretty sure that he is right and the others are wrong, so tell Walid to read further down his chapter that is if he reads the Quran at all and its message or does he just recite it without not taking in what it says.
Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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no walid said cas i dont want it he would never take another wife he believes in it cas sure its what the quran sats but he personally does not want that!!!and ofcorse nowadays most muslim men dont take more then one wife
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Tina and everyone else...Gods works are perfect for what they ae intended to achieve from day one...
(Matthew 19:4-6) 4 In reply he said: “Did YOU not read that he who created them in the beginning made them male and female 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has put together let no man put apart.”
And Islam has 4 wives with whom you can never deal equally .
SO WHY DOES Allah allegedly all knowing , wise put up the ridiculous invitaion to marry two, three or four so long as you treat them equally and then say well actually you can't treat them equally it's impossible..is that the mesaage of a Supreme being or someone uneducated and illiterate who doesn't know how to express himself and has garbled ideas..oh wait isn't that Mohammed?!..
Once agian there will be answers posted (maybe) that will give no solid , rational explanation ..the Quran has not one single precept or principle that is superior to the Bible.It is a rehash of Judaism with one or two mythical odds and ends thrown in for good measure..God tolerated polygamy but never condoned it in Judaism and certainly didn't play hide and seek with his laws and precepts.
and before you ask I've read the Quran in English and Arabic and the Bible from beginning to end . I will only respond to people who have some knowledge of what they are talking about.
Posts: 148 | Registered: Nov 2007
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I am happy to have someone on ES who is familiar with all sides. Your insight is needed here. It is hard to get a clear picture of Islam because there are so many different opinions.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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I never want he takes other wives and he also does not want me to ask for divorce if he is sick and not capable anymore (only can stay on bed). He wants me stay "under his bed". That's all mentioned in our marriage agreement. It is fair enough for he and I.
Posts: 756 | From: ...be solution... | Registered: Jul 2007
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yes but in alls fair if the men can do y not the women? anything a man can do a woman can do as well a woman can take precations not to get pregnant thats not a problem but its just not fair!! i have never read the bible nor the quran nor do i have any expectations on doin so!! its easier to learn when spoken to then to read!! they use some weird words i dont understand so i stay clear!!
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by TOOT Suite : Tina, The Quran talks of the 4 wives thing.
Here is the verse
"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one." [Al-Qur'an 4:3]
what most moslems especially male will not include in the argument is the verse further down the chapter
"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Qur'an 4:129]
So God is saying clearly that you will NEVER be able to be fair.
It is very clear but moslems of today dont really look much to the simplicity of the Quran and its message. They prefer read hadith instead.
Bottom line Tina is
If the Quranic verse is saying ' and you can NEVER' in Gods own words then you can be pretty sure that he is right and the others are wrong, so tell Walid to read further down his chapter that is if he reads the Quran at all and its message or does he just recite it without not taking in what it says.
Here is the weakness in your argument and the others here who have quoted those verses.
You quoted the verse:
quote:"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one." [Al-Qur'an 4:3]
You emphasized the issue:
quote:but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one."
Allha is saying here that if you fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, then only one. This is naseehah (sound advice) from Allah to his male servants that if they feel that he will not be able to deal justly then it is better for him to marry only one woman. It does not tell men NOT to marry 2, 3, or 4 women it gives them sound advice that check yourself and see if you decide to marry more than 1 women to evaluate whether you can deal justly with them and after evaluating whether you believe this is possible and you come to the conclusion that you can't, then it better for you (who can't deal justly) better for you to marry only one woman.
I hope that you were not suggesting that men today prohibited from marrying 2, 3, or 4 women? If so, where is the prohibition of marrying 2, 3, or 4 women in the Quran? Present one verse please, just one verse.
Secondly, it is very clear that the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) married and practiced polygamy to the fulliest during the lifetime of the Prophet (SAW) as well as the 3 righteous generations after him/them.
You quoted:
quote:"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Qur'an 4:129]
However you did not finsh the ayat. You quoted that which you felt was benficial for you to present your point, and you have the nerve to tell Tina :
quote:so tell Walid to read further down his chapter that is if he reads the Quran at all and its message or does he just recite it without not taking in what it says.
So let me quote the entire ayat and put it proper prospective:
"You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire, so do not INCLINE too much to one of them. And if you do justice, and do all that is right and fear Allah by keep away from all that is wrong, then Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" Suratul An Nisa verse 129
Allah is warning men that you will never be able to do Perfect Justice concerning your wives. Allah is telling men you may do Justice, but it won't be Perfect because "Perfection" belongs to only to Allah! However, Allah tells us in the verse that you will be able to do JUSTICE by saying:
And if you do justice, and do all that is right and fear Allah by keep away from all that is wrong, then Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Note: Allah is saying that if you do justic i.e. your very best will all that you have, and Allah knows that you will make mistakes, but you do all that is right and also having the fear of disppointing Allah in the outcome of your action, and at the same time keeping away from forbidden things like infidelity, illegal sexual intercourse, and similar matter, then don't worry of servant of Allah..because Allah knows all that you have done and Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful! Allah Abkar!
This is advice from Allah the Most High. The advice in the beginning is for men NOT to incline towards one wife over another. By inclining towards one over the other is a form of injustice. So Allah tells the men to stay away from that from of in injustice.
Recapping. Polygamy is a part of Islam. It is not forbidden or haram. It is not an obligation for every male to take additional wives, however, no one today can come and say that polygamy is forbidden, because there is no shred of evidence or proof of it's (polygamy) in the Quran revealing that polygamy as being haram/forbidden, actually the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) he himself had 11 wives during the course of his lifetime.
Regarding Kalos who has read the Quran in both English and Arabic. I will only suggest that you continue with your reading and stuides, because from your initial reply regarding this topic your knowledge seem deficient the category of Islamic knowledge with emphasis on Quranic Tafser. Many non-Muslims have read the Quran and they still remaind just that i.e. non-Muslims so you reading the Quran in both languages has thus far been of not benefit in terms of your understanding the words of Allah the Most High and applying them in your life in the form of becoming a Muslim. Also you testify to ignorance and dislike of Islam that by your initial comments and leave you with that quote:
quote:SO WHY DOES Allah allegedly all knowing , wise put up the ridiculous invitaion to marry two, three or four so long as you treat them equally and then say well actually you can't treat them equally it's impossible..is that the mesaage of a Supreme being or someone uneducated and illiterate who doesn't know how to express himself and has garbled ideas..oh wait isn't that Mohammed?!..
I can derive no benefit froma book that makes no sense. How many wives did Adam have ...
What does common sense and reason tell you is the ideal?
How many happy families can you point to where polygamy is practised , My Grandfather had 3 wives ... their descendants are barely speaking to each other. The majority have no contact whatsoever. My childhood is full of memories of recriminations, anger , jealousy between the siblings (MY AUNTS AND UNCLES) - Something you ascribe to God producing Satan's fruitage.
With AIDS and STD's how come ALLah prescribes the very thing that would cause them to spread like wildfire i.e multiple partners- up to 4 in this case . If you claim that a religion has wisdom show the wisdom by what practical results it will yield. Jesus said " wisdom is proved righteous by its works.”
Compare this with the Bibilical injunction to remain chaste until marriage and then faithful for life...The Quran a poor second again (truthfully not even at the races)
Mohammed had 11 wives- how old was Ayeshah again when he married her? Just to clarify for the paedophiles ...?
eleven...hmm one rule for him and one for others (4 maximum) - a wonderful example - do as I say not as I do - what a masterful leader???
And before you trot out the usual sorry excuses about how he was being merciful looking after widows etc ..read this
""Do not severely criticize an older man. To the contrary, entreat him as a father, younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters with all chasteness"".1 Timothy 5:1,2- The Holy Bible
Why did he not look after them as his sisters - what is the only thing he couldn't do if he viewed tham as he would his sisters??? Again the Bible is more reasonable and chaste and logical -
I'm sorry if you judge me ignorant or disliking Islam - I just dislike foolishness masquerading as wisdom full stop - nothing against anyone believing Islam it is their choice - I just want people to think rationally and reaosonably before choosing to throw their lot in with any belief/ideology.
I respect peoples right to believe whatever they want; just don't expect me to respect such utter tripe as being from God..
Posts: 148 | Registered: Nov 2007
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^^^ All that rambling and you failed to address the issue regarding this topic. You only clarified what I said in my last statement regarding your position of Islam:
I wrote in response:
quote:Regarding Kalos who has read the Quran in both English and Arabic. I will only suggest that you continue with your reading and stuides, because from your initial reply regarding this topic your knowledge seem deficient the category of Islamic knowledge with emphasis on Quranic Tafser. Many non-Muslims have read the Quran and they still remaind just that i.e. non-Muslims so you reading the Quran in both languages has thus far been of not benefit in terms of your understanding the words of Allah the Most High and applying them in your life in the form of becoming a Muslim. Also you testify to ignorance and dislike of Islam that by your initial comments and leave you with that quote:
You wrote:
quote:SO WHY DOES Allah allegedly all knowing , wise put up the ridiculous invitaion to marry two, three or four so long as you treat them equally and then say well actually you can't treat them equally it's impossible..is that the mesaage of a Supreme being or someone uneducated and illiterate who doesn't know how to express himself and has garbled ideas..oh wait isn't that Mohammed?!..
I leave you with one ayat of the Quran. The words in brackets are NOT Allah words but rather words use the explain the meaning, anyway here we go:
"The likeness of those who were entrusted with the (obligation of the)Taurat (Torah), but who subsequently failed in those (obligations),is the likeness of an Donkey (ASS) which carries a huge burden of books (but understands nothing from them). How bad is the example of the people who deny the ayats of Allah. And Allah guides not the people who are Zalimun. Suratul Jumuah verse 5
Let me let you get back to replying because you truly express your deep profound understanding of Islam. Tafadali ya ukhti..LOL Posts: 14 | Registered: Jan 2008
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S to M- in the original post Tina says she could never share her husband with another man.
I am questioning the quranic teaching on polygamy it is you who have failed :-
Your failure to answer a single question raised is typical of Muslims when they have no answer -resort to name calling and insults...again wisdom is proved righteous by its works...show me the good positive outcomes of polygamous marriages - cite me real life examples and furnish proof... showing a smiley face to cover up your embaressment at knowing deep down that polygamy for men goes contrary to nature and human dignity - it reduces women to sexual objects.
Why four wives . give us some spiritual and /or logical reasons - why Mohammed had 11 not 4 - where oh where is the logic and reasoning ...basic human decency tells you this is wrong. How would you feel if your wife married three other men ?? Yet your God would allow the poor first wife to go through all that anguish that you are spared.
Come on and be a good Muslim and give me the profound understanding as to why these things were allowed for "the Prophet" otherwise you will be the ass on this forum.. go ahead give all us irrational human beings enlightenment O guru.
One final point I read the Quran several times when a Muslim - so stop making assumptions as to my status when I read it
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: yes but in alls fair if the men can do y not the women? anything a man can do a woman can do as well a woman can take precations not to get pregnant thats not a problem but its just not fair!! i have never read the bible nor the quran nor do i have any expectations on doin so!! its easier to learn when spoken to then to read!! they use some weird words i dont understand so i stay clear!!
To make you easy to understand, please think:
If a man marry 4 wives, people will KNOW whose THE FATHER of the kids, but if a woman marry 4 husbands, people will CONFUSED whose THE FATHER of the kids, cause she shares her bed to 4 men hehehehe.
Having 1 husband can create problems, so how about if having 4 husbands? ooooh that will create many problems!.
I will never ever have desire for having more husbands at once or even that as an idea only, never.
Posts: 756 | From: ...be solution... | Registered: Jul 2007
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But Couldn't a PERFECT GOD anticipate DNA testing merely 1400 years ago, a blip in the history of the earth? Or couldn't the ALL-KNOWING God proclaim that women can also have the same freedom as men only AFTER 1986 when DNA testing will be available, until then only men will have this freedom.
Besides, the most important point is, even without DNA test, if polyandry is left as a choice, then let the men decide if it is worthwhile for them to marry the same wife if they cannot identify his child. Let the buyers beware!
The freedom of choice factor alone can settle that issue. Those men who care for parentage issue will not exercize their freedom of choice, those who don't will. As simple as that.
If the fact of war in the 7-8th century Arabia etc reducing the number of men to defend this choice for men only, then the question is, If Qur'an embodies universal message across all time and age, then why use this 7th century Arabia scenario as
the basis of this supposedly timeless/ageless Ayah? It obviously doesn't apply today as then, and never did for other societies before or after 7 the century.
Also if "all time and age" is to be consistently maintained then God should also have made make provision for any future possibility of reduction of women's population (Who can say that there may not be an epidemic affecting women only, or that female infanticide may not become rampant again, like in China?) and proclaimed the same choice for women as well.
How could a PERFECT GOD, in his PERFECT book, leave out this important conditional clause of "unforeseen circumstance" for polygamy? Why did he leave it up to a mortal to interpret and read his mind? After all, a perfect book, should be self-contained and self-explanatory, not requiring mortals to put their convenient interpretation on it. GOD should have definitely included that clause himself if he meant it. Hmm, points to ponder.
But their is another side to it. When male/female balance exists then polygamy may be unfair to many males who may find it harder to find wives as one man will have hogged 4-wives for himself.
As men were not, are not, and never will be, even double than women in number, a law of “up to 4” can not at all relate to that. At best it could be “up to 2”. It can be said with absolute confidence that nature keeps a balance so that no species will ever have male or female 4 times than the other. So, the Quraanic purpose of “up to 4” was not to handle the situation of the numbers of 52-48%.
It is not true that “Islam allows a Muslim man to have a maximum of only 4 wives”. The truth rather is, “Islam allows a Muslim man to have a maximum of 4 wives at a time”. Then he is absolutely free to divorce any wife anytime quite easily, none in the world can even ask him the reason of divorce. Then the happy man can marry again. This cycle can be repeated endlessly, legally, Islamically.
This law is extremely painful/insulting to innocent women, Anything which tortures innocent people can not be divine, If the Quran is divine as it claims to be, something went very wrong with the law.
Posts: 156 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Strangeways, you don't need to scream your words. We get the idea.
Posts: 6335 | From: Straight to my heart. | Registered: Sep 2007
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i understand all of that but plz use words for dummies!!with me in lamens terms!!! dont copy and paste quran cas i cant understand a thing!!! now i want only 1 husband 4 would make me insane!!lol anyways in this world as we live now some do have multipal wives!!some i know but not everyone agrees with this walid is against it cas he wants only me and im happy with that!!!
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Superman to Man: Here is the weakness in your argument and the others here who have quoted those verses.
You quoted the verse:
quote:"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one." [Al-Qur'an 4:3]
You emphasized the issue:
quote:but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one."
Allha is saying here that if you fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, then only one. This is naseehah (sound advice) from Allah to his male servants that if they feel that he will not be able to deal justly then it is better for him to marry only one woman. It does not tell men NOT to marry 2, 3, or 4 women it gives them sound advice that check yourself and see if you decide to marry more than 1 women to evaluate whether you can deal justly with them and after evaluating whether you believe this is possible and you come to the conclusion that you can't, then it better for you (who can't deal justly) better for you to marry only one woman.
I hope that you were not suggesting that men today prohibited from marrying 2, 3, or 4 women? If so, where is the prohibition of marrying 2, 3, or 4 women in the Quran? Present one verse please, just one verse.
Secondly, it is very clear that the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) married and practiced polygamy to the fulliest during the lifetime of the Prophet (SAW) as well as the 3 righteous generations after him/them.
You quoted:
quote:"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Qur'an 4:129]
However you did not finsh the ayat. You quoted that which you felt was benficial for you to present your point, and you have the nerve to tell Tina :
quote:so tell Walid to read further down his chapter that is if he reads the Quran at all and its message or does he just recite it without not taking in what it says.
So let me quote the entire ayat and put it proper prospective:
"You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire, so do not INCLINE too much to one of them. And if you do justice, and do all that is right and fear Allah by keep away from all that is wrong, then Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" Suratul An Nisa verse 129
004.129 YUSUFALI: Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so). But turn not altogether away (from one), leaving her as in suspense. If ye do good and keep from evil, lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: And you have it not in your power to do justice between wives, even though you may wish (it), but be not disinclined (from one) with total disinclination, so that you leave her as it were in suspense; and if you effect a reconciliation and guard (against evil), then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
quote:"You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire, so do not INCLINE too much to one of them. And if you do justice, and do all that is right and fear Allah by keep away from all that is wrong, then Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" Suratul An Nisa verse 129
004.129 YUSUFALI: Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so). But turn not altogether away (from one), leaving her as in suspense. If ye do good and keep from evil, lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: And you have it not in your power to do justice between wives, even though you may wish (it), but be not disinclined (from one) with total disinclination, so that you leave her as it were in suspense; and if you effect a reconciliation and guard (against evil), then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
sands where do you get your translation from? It is totally different to the ones I posted from 3 of the best translations. Is it your own interpretation of the verse?
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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I am not going to let this one go - to PROVE that Muslims have no answer and become completely irrational when faced with something that shows Mohammed to be a con artist they refuse to anwer ,so I will BUMP this paragraph repeatedly as an open letter for all MUslims to read and reply to..if you can't then ask yourself why do I believe this ?...use the reasoning power that God gave you ...
Quote from above:
I am questioning the quranic teaching on polygamy it is you who have failed :-
Your failure to answer a single question raised is typical of Muslims when they have no answer -resort to name calling and insults...again wisdom is proved righteous by its works...show me the good positive outcomes of polygamous marriages - cite me real life examples and furnish proof... showing a smiley face to cover up your embaressment at knowing deep down that polygamy for men goes contrary to nature and human dignity - it reduces women to sexual objects.
Why four wives . give us some spiritual and /or logical reasons - why Mohammed had 11 not 4 - where oh where is the logic and reasoning ...basic human decency tells you this is wrong. How would you feel if your wife married three other men ?? Yet your God would allow the poor first wife to go through all that anguish that you are spared.
Come on and be a good Muslim and give me the profound understanding as to why these things were allowed for "the Prophet" otherwise you will be the ass on this forum.. go ahead give all us irrational human beings enlightenment O guru.""
Posts: 148 | Registered: Nov 2007
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here in usa there are many people with multipul waives and they seem happy o think they live in utah! mormons or somethin like that !! some have 3 to 10 wives and tho its not legal here in usa they still have their little community!!some of the kids that were to marry have escaped their grasps!!it was on a news channel some kinda 1 hr show about utahs poligamy people!! so yes it happens and most women are happy!!!
i dont agree with this but they do and to each is their own!!
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Oh yes the Mormons..who believe that God is made of flesh and bone with no blood and that Adam had relations with Mary to produce Jesus...Polygamy as well ? Well there's a shock!
Blasphemous in every way..so might as well diregard God's standard on marriage too...why are they polygamous? Because they believe that there are souls waiting in heaven to be born as humans and they are doing them a favour by having as many children as possible. Hmmm good example to follow...?
So a "little community " which has brainwashed it's beleivers so much that (to quote you) ""the kids that were to marry have escaped their grasps""
Sorry Tina , no go on that one. Show me real world examples of this working in 21st century.Show me a community where this practice works in real life not in society which is a backwater of ignorance with blinded minorities.
Otherwise accept that this was just a sexual convenience prescribed for men in the 7th century with absolutely no relevance today. Therefore a manmade doctrine. Which leads us to the man made religion ..Islam
Posts: 148 | Registered: Nov 2007
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i have no clue i dont condone nor believe in it!!!
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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