quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Ayisha, are you going to argue the facts we as Muslims know to be our faith of Islam the word of Allah with a group of polytheistic and atheist mortals ??? Are you outa your mind ??!! Let them go astray, what do you care ?
LOL Dzosser would you have me clap them in irons or hang them or stone them perhaps? for asking questions? What do I care?? I care because we all have questions at some point and asking those questions shouldnt be seen as an invitation to discriminate. At one time I asked a lot of questions and if I hadnt found answers to those questions maybe I wouldnt be Muslim today. Who are we to know whats in the heart of another person, Allah guides all people in different ways, one is to ask questions.
"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." (Surah 5:101-102).
"The prophet was asked about things which he did not like, and when the questioner insisted, the Prophet got angry. (Bukhari. vol. 1, no. 92)
The Prophet got angry and his cheeks or his face became red. (Bukhari vol. 1, no. 91)
"Allah has hated you...[for] asking too many questions." (Bukhari vol. 2, no. 555; and vol. 3, no. 591.
"The Holy Prophet himself forbade people to ask questions ...so do not try to probe into such things." (The Meaning of the Qur'an, Maududi, vol. III, pgs. 76-77)
"Dear Muslim: If you love your faith and want to keep it, leave this site NOW. We have set thousands of Muslims free. Some of them were more faithful and more knowledgeable than you. Many of them are now helping other Muslims in their journey to freedom. Truth is very powerful and you may not have the strength to resist it. This site has the potential to undo Islam. This is no hyperbole. It is a reality that is already happening. A silent revolution is taking place, unprecedented in history. If you don’t leave Islam, your children will. The sun of truth has dawned. Your only chance to remain a Muslim is to keep your head deep in the sand. The more you learn the truth the more you will lose your faith. Truth will set you free, but if you fear freedom leave this site NOW. However, if you feel valiant, meet my challenge and I will remove this site."
LOL
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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Hardline Islamist militiamen in Somalia have stoned to death a man accused of raping and murdering a woman.
The execution took place in front of a large crowd in the town of Wanlaweyn, about 90km (55 miles) south of the capital Mogadishu.
The man was convicted by an unofficial court set up by the al-Shabab movement.
On Thursday in Mogadishu, al-Shabab - which advocates a strict form of Sharia - publicly amputated a hand and a foot from each of four men accused of theft.
"This man was accused of raping and killing an 18-year-old girl in May this year. The court found him guilty of the charges brought against him," Sheikh Mohamed Saleban, a local al-Shabab official, told AFP news agency on Sunday.
"He was a married man, which is why the court sentenced him to be stoned to death," he added, explaining that a rape conviction only incurs flogging.
Local resident Abdullahi Husein said most of the town's population turned out to watch the lynching, where gunmen banned cameras and mobile phones.
"Ten masked men from the al-Shabab forces stoned him to death in front of everyone. They had dug a hole, buried him to his neck before throwing stones at him," he told AFP.
In October last year, al-Shabab ordered a 13-year-old girl to be stoned to death in public in the southern city of Kismayo.
She was accused of adultery after reporting she had been raped by three men.
The radical Islamists, who are accused of links to al-Qaeda, already control much of the south of the country.
Since last month, al-Shabab's guerrillas have been locked in ferocious battles with forces loyal to the fragile UN-backed government in Mogadishu.
Last week, the administration appealed to neighbouring countries urgently to send troops to help.
A moderate Islamist president took office in January but even his introduction of Sharia law to the strongly Muslim country has not appeased the guerrillas.
Somalia has been without an effective government since 1991.
posted
Nothing cries Peace, and love, like a good old fashion amputation. All good and legal like.
"MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) — A court run by an extremist Islamic group sentenced four Somali men on Monday to each have a hand and a leg cut off for allegedly stealing mobile phones and guns.."
Amnesty International appealed to al-Shabab not to carry out the "cruel, inhuman and degrading punishments," all while failing to recognize that it is not al-Shabab but rather sharia law that calls for "cruel, inhuman and degrading punishments."
I will quote two of Islamic scholars of the Shafi'i school of jurisprudence (since that is the school generally followed in Somalia):
Abu al-Hasan al-Mawardi:
"All owned property beyond a certain minimum if stolen by a major in possession of his own faculties who has no rightful claim to it incurs the amputation of the right arm at the elbow joint." (Al-Mawardi, The Ordinances of Government [Al-Ahkam al-Sultaniyya], translated by Wafaa H. Wahba. Garnet Publishing, 1996, p. 245).
Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri:
"A person's right hand is amputated, whether he is a Muslim, non-Muslim subject of the Islamic state, or someone who has left Islam, when he: (a) has reached puberty; (b) is sane; (c) is acting voluntarily; (d) and steals at least a quarter of a dinar (n: 1.058 grams of gold) or goods worth that much (A: at the market prices current) at the time of the theft..." (Ahmed ibn Naqib al-Misri, Reliance of the Traveller ['Umdat al-Salik]: A Classical Manuel of Islamic Sacred Law, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller. Amana Publications, 2008, o14.1).
In terms of traditional Islamic jurisprudence the Somali al-Shabab group is hardly "extremist" (as the article would have us believe), but quite within the mainstream of Sunni judicial thought.
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
They of course follow the sunna of their Prophet:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:
Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you sh ould join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails, which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died.
Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: A thief was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). He said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his hand. So his (right) hand was cut off. He was brought a second time and he said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his foot. So his (left) foot was cut off. He was brought a third time and he said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! So he said: Cut off his hand. (So his (left) hand was cut off.) He was brought a fourth time and he said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! So he said: Cut off his foot. So his (right) foot was cut off. He was brought a fifth time and he said: Kill him. So we took him away and killed him. We then dragged him and cast him into a well and threw stones over him.web pagePosts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sectarian Islam tried to revoke the Quranic verses and added something alien to the Quran: namely stoning to death. What is still more terrifying was the allegation of traditionalists who argued that there was a missing link in the Quran that had to be supplemented. According to their account, the verse that treated the stoning to death of the offender accused of adultery did exist but was eaten up by a goat.
In the meantime, we must not forget that all the sects without exception have vindicated this argument. Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Davudi Hanbal, Ibn Maja hold a brief for the existence of rajm. Yet, the retribution for adultery is well explained in the Quran. To introduce a new provision that contradicts the Quran shows the kind of mentality and the degree of faith in the Quran of the traditionalist Islamist.
2 - The adulteress and the adulterer should be flogged a hundred lashes (jalda) each. Do not be swayed by kindness from carrying out God’s law, if you believe in God and the Last Day. And the punishment should be witnessed by a group of believers. 24 The Light, 2
The punishment is then the flogging of the offender with a jalda, an Arabic expression meaning a stick that would hurt the skin. The Arabic words ansa, minsa, which have the signification of rod, or cudgel, are not mentioned. By this is meant that the idea was not to inflict pain to the offender but merely to expose him/her to public censure. According to the Quran, to prove adultery, the testimony of four witnesses is required. If we take into consideration that immunity of private ownership is de rigueur in Islam, it is difficult for four persons to witness the adulterous act at the same time. Yet, this is a prescription that bans the institution of brothels. While even in such a case, God says not to be overtaken by compassion, how can a cruel punishment like stoning to death be envisaged? Moreover, in the preceding verse (24 The Light, 1) it is stressed that the verse to follow is explicit enough. This is the law of God who is never short of words (31 Luqmaan, 27); who is the Supreme Lawgiver (5 The Feast, 50); who is not forgetful (19 Mary, 64) and who has revealed the Quran in all its details (11 Hud, 1).
The story runs as follows: “The verses of the Quran written on papyri were kept in the house of Aisha, the Prophet’s wife. A hungry goat that had access ate them.” An account of this may be read in the books of Ibn Maja’s Nikah; Hanbal. How can a verse of the Quran that had been completed and learned by heart vanish after the death of the Prophet? According to the traditionalist Islam, Ibn Kutayba uses the following introductory remark before tackling the problem: “The goat is a holy animal.” Then he continues enumerating the merits of this holy goat. “God who annihilated the tribes Ad and Samud might well have a goat to repeal His verse.” Ibn Kutayba, who established an analogy between these atheist tribes destroyed by God and this event, sets a good example for the incongruous approaches of traditionalist, sectarian Islamists.
A hadith falsely ascribed to Caliph Omar states: “People will arise in the future who will deny the existence of rajm. These people will be religious apostates. Had I not feared the people’s allegation that Omar was making additions to the Quran, I would have introduced the rajm verse in the Quran” (Bukhari, Muslim Hudud, Abu Davud).
In our opinion, even this single hadith is enough to argue against the unreliability of the books of Bukhari, Muslim and Abu Davud. According to the mentality of these hadiths, Omar feared public censure more than God.
STONING OF ADULTEROUS MONKEYS
Not being content with such concoctions, Bukhari says that even monkeys having witnessed an adulterous relation between two monkeys had punished the offenders by stoning them to death. Kurtubi says that at the end of the Sura Ahzab there was a missing verse (namely the verse about rajm) and that it had been omitted by the scribes under Caliph Osman. There was no end to justifications sought to vindicate the existence of rajm.
To prove their case, sectarians have tried to abrogate (nasih) the explicit provision of 24 The Light, 2. According to one rumor, there was no rajm in the Quran during the time of Caliph Omar; according to another account, it is alleged that it had been omitted during the time of Caliph Osman. And according to another legend,it was said that a goat had eaten it. Then the rajm of monkeys are reported which, according to hearsay, the companions had witnessed. All these in total disregard the explicit prescription in the Quran to this effect! According to the Quran, the Quran is a self-sufficient and complete book. According to books of hadiths and the sectarians this is not so. While the Quran preached not to be divided into factions and sermonized against sectarians, the sects have been relentless in insisting on the details to be observed during the stoning: “In stoning, pebbles each of the size of a chickpea shall be used. The adulteress will be driven into a pit while the man shall be stoned standing.” (Book of four sects)
TIME TO BRING THE QURAN DOWN FROM THE WALL
It is to be regretted that the Quran has been hung at a lofty place and the contents only read for the souls of the departed. The sectarians argued that the Quran was a book that could only be understood by a few. Man’s common sense and intellectual genius were vilified. Sectarian imams had the exclusivity of the religion. Scholars in other branches of science could not possibly conceive what was said in the Quran and were to obey the word of the sectarians rather than formulating their own opinions.
100 - And He casts uncleanness on those who will not understand. 10 Jonah, 100
10 - We have sent down to you a Book which has a reminder for you. Will you not then understand? 21 The Prophets, 10
20-year-old woman divorcee accused of committing adultery in Somalia has been stoned to death by Islamists in front of a crowd of about 200 people.
A judge working for the militant group al-Shabab said she had had an affair with an unmarried 29-year-old man.
He said she gave birth to a still-born baby and was found guilty of adultery. Her boyfriend was given 100 lashes.
It is thought to be the second time a woman has been stoned to death for adultery by al-Shabab.
The group controls large swathes of southern Somalia where they have imposed a strict interpretation of Islamic law which has been unpopular with many Somalis.
'Lenient'
According to reports from a small village near the town of Wajid, 250 miles (400km) north-west of the capital, Mogadishu, the woman was taken to the public grounds where she was buried up to her waist.
She was then stoned to death in front of the crowds on Tuesday afternoon.
The judge, Sheikh Ibrahim Abdirahman, said her unmarried boyfriend was given 100 lashes at the same venue.
Under al-Shabab's interpretation of Sharia law, anyone who has ever been married - even a divorcee - who has an affair is liable to be found guilty of adultery, punishable by stoning to death.
An unmarried person who has sex before marriage is liable to be given 100 lashes.
BBC East Africa correspondent Will Ross says the stoning is at least the fourth for adultery in Somalia over the last year.
Earlier this month, a man was stoned to death for adultery in the port town of Merka, south of Mogadishu.
His pregnant girlfriend was spared, until she gives birth.
A girl was stoned to death for adultery in the southern town of Kismayo last year. Human rights groups said she was 13 years old and had been raped, but the Islamists said she was older and had been married.
Last month, two men were stoned to death in Merka after being accused of spying.
President Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, a moderate Islamist, was sworn in as president after UN-brokered peace talks in January.
Although he says he also wants to implement Sharia, al-Shabab says his version of Islamic law would be too lenient.
The country has not had a functioning national government for 18 years.
posted
A veteran Iranian human rights activist has warned that Sakineh Mohammadie Ashtiani, a mother of two, could be stoned to death at any moment under the terms of a death sentence handed down by Iranian authorities.
Only an international campaign designed to pressure the regime in Tehran can save her life, according to Mina Ahadi, head of the International Committee Against Stoning and the Death Penalty.
"Legally it's all over," Ahadi said Sunday. "It's a done deal. Sakineh can be stoned at any minute."
"That is why we have decided to start a very broad, international public movement. Only that can help."
Ashtiani, 42, will be buried up to her chest, according to an Amnesty International report citing the Iranian penal code. The stones that will be hurled at her will be large enough to cause pain but not so large as to kill her immediately.
Ashtiani, who is from the northern city of Tabriz, was convicted of adultery in 2006.
She was forced to confess after being subjected to 99 lashes, human rights lawyer Mohammad Mostafaei said Thursday in a telephone interview from Tehran.
She later retracted that confession and has denied wrongdoing. Her conviction was based not on evidence but on the determination of three out of five judges, Mostafaei said.
She has asked forgiveness from the court but the judges refused to grant clemency.
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posted
Wed at 14, 'adulterous' girl, Azar Bagheri, awaits stoning
Wed at 14, 'adulterous' girl, Azar Bagheri, awaits stoning
SHE was only 14 when she was forced into marriage with an older man.
Yet within a year of her wedding, Azar Bagheri was charged with adultery and sentenced to be stoned to death.
The sentence could not be carried out until she was 18. So for the past four years, Ms Bagheri has been languishing on death row while the courts waited for her to reach maturity so she could be put to death.
According to Iranian human rights activist Mina Ahadi, Ms Bagheri was denounced by her husband, who accused her of committing adultery with two men.
Ms Ahadi said the teenager had been subjected to two mock stonings. On each occasion she was taken out of her cell and buried up to her shoulders in the yard of Tabriz prison, in northwest Iran, as if being prepared to be pelted to death with stones.
Ms Bagheri's lawyers are now planning to ask the judges to reduce her sentence to 99 lashes. Buoyed by an international campaign against Iran's death sentence for women convicted of adultery, they hope the court will show mercy.
After widespread condemnation of the sentence of stoning passed on another woman, Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani, 43, the Iranians backed down last week. The Iranian embassy in London said that according to information from the judicial authorities in Tehran, the stoning of Ms Ashtiani would not go ahead.
But campaigners warned that Ms Ashtiani could still be executed by other means.
Amnesty International noted that three Iranians sentenced to death by stoning last year had been hanged instead.
"A mere change of the method of execution would not address the injustice," said Amnesty's deputy director for the Middle East, Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui.
Ms Ashtiani was sentenced in 2006 for having an "illicit relationship" with two men, for which she has already received a public flogging of 99 lashes. She was convicted of adultery even though she was a widow at the time -- her husband was killed before the alleged affair started.
Her family claims that during the trial of the two men accused of murdering her husband, another court found her guilty of adultery with the suspects, even though no evidence was given.
Her lawyer, Mohammad Mostafaei, said: "She has been waiting to be stoned to death for six years. She is having repetitive endless nightmares about death mixed with people stoning her."
Under Iran's penal code, adultery is the only crime punishable by stoning as an offence "against divine law". The death sentence may also be imposed for murder, rape, armed robbery and drug trafficking, but offenders are usually hanged.
Stoning is intended to cause a slow and painful death. Iran's penal code states: "The size of the stone . . . shall not be too large to kill the convict by one or two throws, and shall not be too small to be called a stone."
I do not agree though that the real crime is the stoning. I believe that the real crime is that someone can be sentenced to death by **any** means based on a sexual relationship so amended that bit to that effect.
Surely to God this is the most sickening twisting of culture and religion ever dreamt up by mankind that you can take a LIFE based on the sex act.
Even the Saudi Prince convicted of murder in London last week is scared to return to Saudi because he faces the death penalty for .... being homosexual .... not committing murder!
What a SICK SICK SICK society.
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posted
These days, with Sharia being relatively high-profile, it has become common for Islamic apologists and whitewashers to claim that Sharia is nowhere being properly implemented today, and in particular that Saudi Arabia and Iran are not actually Sharia states at all, despite their own claims. This is, of course, manifestly absurd. Stoning for adultery, to take just this present example, is a Sharia punishment taught by all the madhahib (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) and founded upon Muhammad's example as delineated by numerous ahadith.
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posted
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday that the case of a woman sentenced to death by stoning was still under investigation and denounced the US outcry over her sentence as biased.
The case of Sakineh Mohammadi-Ashtiani, who has been sentenced to die by stoning on charges of adultery, has sparked international outrage and calls from the United States and Europe for her execution to be called off.
Ahmedinejad said; "I want to make my own appeal. In the United States there are 53 women condemned to death. Why is the whole world not asking them to pardon these women? We handed to them a list of these women but the media is in their hands and this is why they are not covering this question."
"This case is still under investigation. Iran's investigative agencies are very competent and they will take the right decision on this matter,"
Mohammadi-Ashtiani was sentenced to death by two different courts in the northwestern city of Tabriz in separate trials in 2006. A sentence to hang for her involvement in the murder of her husband was commuted to a 10-year jail term by an appeals court in 2007. But a second sentence, to die by stoning, was on a charge of adultery levelled over several relationships, notably with the man convicted of her husband's murder. That was upheld by another appeals court the same year. Reports early this month that her execution was imminent sparked widespread international condemnation.
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would you have me clap them in irons or hang them or stone them perhaps? for asking questions? What do I care?? I care because we all have questions at some point and asking those questions shouldnt be seen as an invitation to discriminate. At one time I asked a lot of questions and if I hadnt found answers to those questions maybe I wouldnt be Muslim today. Who are we to know whats in the heart of another person, Allah guides all people in different ways, one is to ask questions. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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