In most Islamic countries, gay men and women are ostracized, persecuted and in some cases even murdered. Repressive regimes are often fanning the flames of hatred in a bid to outdo Islamists when it comes to spreading "moral panic."
Bearded men kidnapped him in the center of Baghdad, threw him into a dark hole, chained him down, urinated on him, and beat him with an iron pipe. But the worst moment for Hisham, 40, came on the fourth day of his ordeal when the kidnappers called his family. He was terrified they would tell his mother that he is gay and that this was the reason they had kidnapped him. If they did he would never be able to see his family again. The shame would be unbearable for them.
"Do what you want to me, but don't tell them," he screamed.
Instead of humiliating him in the eyes of his family, the kidnappers demanded a ransom of $50,000 (€33,000), a huge sum for the average Iraqi family. His parents had to go into debt and sell off all of their son's possessions in order to raise the money required to secure his freedom. Shortly after they received the ransom the kidnappers threw Hisham out of their car somewhere in the northern part of Baghdad. They decided not to shoot him and let him go. But they sent him on his way with a warning: "This is your last chance. If we ever see you again, we'll kill you."
That was four months ago. Hisham has since moved to Lebanon. He told his family that he had decided to flee the violence and terror in Baghdad and that he had found work in Beirut. Needless to say he didn't disclose the fact that he is unable to live in Iraq because of the death squads who are out hunting for "effeminate-looking" men.
In Baghdad a new series of murders began early this year, perpetrated against men suspected of being gay. Often they are raped, their genitals cut off, and their anuses sealed with glue. Their bodies are left at landfills or dumped in the streets. The non-profit organization Human Rights Watch, which has documented many of these crimes, has spoken of a systematic campaign of violence involving hundreds of murders.
Restoring 'Religious Morals'
A video clip showing men dancing with each other at a party in Baghdad in the summer of 2008 is thought to have triggered this string of kidnappings, rapes, and murders. Thousands of people have seen it on the Internet and on their cell phones. Islamic religious leaders began ranting about the growing presence of a "third sex" which American soldiers were said to have brought in with them. The followers of radical Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr, in particular, felt the need to take action aimed at restoring "religious morals."
In their stronghold, the part of Baghdad known as Sadr City, black-clad militiamen patrol the streets, on the lookout for anyone whose "unmanly appearance" or behavior would make it possible to identify them as being homosexual. Often enough long hair, tight-fitting t-shirts and trousers, or a certain way of walking were a death sentence for the persons in question. But it's not just the Mahdi army who has been hunting down and killing gay men. Other groups such as Sunni militias close to al-Qaida and the Iraqi security services are also known to be involved.
Homosexuals in Iraq may be faced with an exceptionally dangerous situation but they are ostracized almost everywhere in the Muslim world. Gay rights organizations estimate that more than 100,000 gay men and women are currently being discriminated against and threatened in Muslim countries. Thousands of them commit suicide, end up in prison, or go into hiding.
Egypts Starts to Clamp Down
More than 30 Islamic countries have laws on the books that prohibit homosexuality and make it a criminal offense. In most cases punishment ranges from floggings to life imprisonment. In Mauritania, Bangladesh, Yemen, parts of Nigeria and Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Iran convicted homosexuals can also be sentenced to death.
In those Muslim countries where homosexuality is not against the law gay men and women are nonetheless persecuted, arrested, and in some cases murdered. Although long known for its open gay scene, Egypt has recently started to clamp down hard. The lives of homosexuals are monitored by a kind of vice squad who tap telephones and recruit informants. As soon as the police have accumulated the kind of evidence they need they charge their victims with "debauchery."
In Malaysia homosexuality has been used as a political weapon. In 2000 opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim was sentenced to nine years in prison for allegedly committing "sodomy" with his wife's chauffeur as well as with a former speechwriter. In 2004 the conviction was overturned on appeal and he was acquitted. In the summer of 2008 charges were filed against him in a similar case when a male aide accused him of sodomy. The case is still ongoing.
For a while Anwar was the favorite of former Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad and was being groomed to succeed him in that office until they had a falling out in 1998. Ten years and some prison time later, on August 28, 2008, Anwar managed to be sworn in again as a member of the Malaysian parliament. But that's as far as he has got with his political comeback.
Even in liberal Lebanon homosexuals run the risk of being sentenced to a year in prison. On the other hand, Beirut has the only gay and lesbian organization in the Arab world (Helem, which means 'dream' in Arabic). There are posters on the walls of the Helem office in downtown Beirut providing information on AIDS and tips on how to deal with homophobia. The existence of Helem is being tolerated for the time being but the Interior Ministry has yet to grant it an official permit. "And it's hard to imagine that we ever will be given one," says Georges Azzi, the organization's managing director.
Islamists Are the Dominant Cultural Force
In Istanbul there is a free gay scene, a Christopher Street Day, and even religious Muslims are among the fans of transsexual pop diva Bülent Ersoy and the late gay singer Zeki Müren. But outside the world of show business it is considered both a disgrace and an illness to be a götveren or "queen." In the Turkish army homosexuality is cause for failing a medical test. To identify anyone trying to use homosexuality as an excuse to get out of military service, army doctors ask to see photos or videos showing the recruits engaging in sex with a man. And they have to be in the "passive" role. In Turkey being in the active role is considered manly enough not to be proof of homosexuality.
It looks as if a wave of homophobia has swept over the Islamic world, a place that was once widely known for its openmindedness, where homoerotic literature was written and widely read, where gender roles were not so narrowly defined, and, as in the days of ancient Greece, where men often sought the companionship of youths.
Islamists are now a dominant cultural force in many of these countries. They include figures such as popular Egyptian television preacher Yussuf al-Qaradawi who demonizes gays as perverse. Four years ago Shiite grand ayatollah Ali al-Sistani issued a fatwa saying that gays are to be murdered in the most brutal way possible. These religious opinion leaders base their hatred for gays on the story of Lot in the Koran: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Lot's people suffered the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins. The Prophet Muhammad has a number of dicta in which he condemns these acts by Lot's people and in one of them he even goes as far as to call for punishment by death.
European Prudery Exported to the Colonies
The story of Lot and related verses in the Koran were not interpreted as unambiguous references to homosexual sex until the 20th century, says Everett Rowson, professor of Islamic Studies at New York University. This reinterpretation was the result of Western influences -- its source was the prudery of European colonialists who introduced their conception of sexual morality to the newly conquered countries.
The fact of the matter is that half of the laws across the world that prohibit homosexuality today are derived from a single law that the British enacted in India in 1860. "Many attitudes with regard to sexual morality that are thought to be identical to Islam owe a lot more to Queen Victoria than to the Koran," Rowson says.
More than anything, it is the politicization of Islam that has led to the persecution of gays today. Sexual morals are no longer a private matter. They are regulated and instrumentalized by governments.
'Regimes Want to Control the Private Lives of Citizens'
"The most repressive are secular regimes such as those in Egypt or Morocco which are under pressure from Islamists and so try to outdo them with regard to morals," says Scott Long of Human Rights Watch. "In addition the persecution of homosexuals shows that a regime has control over the private lives of its citizens -- a sign of power and authority." For several years now a sense of "moral panic" has been systematically fomented in many Muslim countries.
Iran is a case in point, where homosexuals have been persecuted on a more or less regular basis since the Islamic revolution. Since President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been in office there has definitely been an increase in this persecution despite the fact that Ahmadinejad never grows tired of emphasizing that there are no homosexuals in his country.
The mere suspicion that someone may have committed "unnatural acts" is enough for that person to be sentenced to a flogging in Iran. If caught more than once, the person in question can be sentenced to death. According to official statistics, 148 homosexuals have been given a death sentence and executed thus far. The true figure is doubtless much larger than this. The last case of this kind to attract public attention was that of 21-year-old Makwan Moludsade, who was hanged in December 2007. He was accused of having raped three boys several years earlier. Homosexuals are almost always charged with other crimes such as rape, fraud, or robbery in order to be better able to justify their execution.
'If I Had Stayed, They Would Have Killed Me'
As a result of this situation thousands of gays and lesbians have fled Iran. For most of them the first port of call is Turkey. "I had no choice but to flee," says Ali, a 32-year-old physician. "If I had stayed, they would have killed me."
Ali was careful. He rarely went to parties, he used different Internet cafés for online chat sessions, and he didn't let anyone in on his secret, not even the members of his family knew. Everything went well until one day his friend's father caught them kissing. Two days later Ali lost his job at the hospital and then he was hit by a car, in what seemed to be a deliberate attack. Shortly after that he received a telephone call telling him: "We want to see you hang."
What he hadn't known was that his friend's father was a high-ranking member of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.
Ali went to the bank, withdrew his savings, and took a train to Turkey, where he applied for asylum. Since then he has lived in a tiny apartment in Kayseri, Central Anatolia, one of 35 gay Iranian exiles in that city.
Arsham Parsi, 29, from Shiraz, fled Iran four years ago. A slight man with a fluffy beard and glasses, he was one of the most wanted men in Iran for several years after creating the country's first gay network in 2001. Its members only communicated with each other by e-mail and very few people knew his real name. But in the end his identity was still revealed. Parsi managed to get away but it was a close call. He got a visa for Canada, where he founded the "Iranian Queer Organization", which now has 6,000 members in Iran. They include numerous transsexuals or persons who consider themselves to be transsexuals. Parsi estimates that "Nearly half of all sex-change operations are requested by homosexuals."
Sex-Change Operations Booming in Iran
The persecution of gays has led to a boom in demand for sex-change operations in Iran. More operations of this kind are carried out in the Islamic Republic than anywhere else in the world apart from Thailand. These procedures were approved by Ayatollah Khomeini himself in 1983. Khomeini defined transsexuality as a disease that can be healed by means of an operation. Since then thousands of people have requested this kind of treatment and the Iranian government even covers part of the costs.
"Family members and physicians urge homosexuals to have operations to normalize their sexual orientation," Parsi says. This way it was possible for a high-ranking Shiite religious scholar to finance his secretary's physical transformation into a woman and then to marry him.
The archconservative Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is the only Arab country where sharia law is the sole legal code, under which homosexuals are flogged and executed. "homosexuals are freer here than they are in Iran," says Afdhere Jama, who traveled through the Islamic world for seven years doing research for his book "Illegal Citizens."
Gay men and women have a surprising amount of space in Saudi society. Newspapers print stories about lesbian sex in school lavatories, while it is an open secret that certain shopping centers, restaurants, and bars in Jeddah and Riyadh are gay meeting points.
"There are numerous Saudi men who have sexual relationships with youths before they are married or when their wives are pregnant," Jama says. In these cases having sex with another male is often the only way of having sex at all. Extramarital affairs with women are nearly impossible. "In the West the men in question would be considered gay, but in countries like Saudi Arabia it is harder to categorize them," Jama notes. Most Muslims have trouble understanding the Western concept of "gay identity." In their countries there is no such thing as a gay lifestyle or a gay movement.
Cultural and Political Factors
Daayiee Abdullah, 55, is an imam. He wears a prayer cap, has a beard -- and is gay. He is one of only two imams in the world who are openly gay. He voluntarily chose to follow the path of Islam. Raised as a Baptist in Detroit, he made friends with Chinese Muslims while studying in Beijing and then converted to Islam. "They told me it would be no problem for me as a gay man to be a good Muslim."
Imam Abdullah and many others along with him have a somewhat different interpretation of the story of Lot. According to them, those whom God condemned were not homosexuals but rapists and robbers. It is not homosexuality that the Koran prohibits but rather rape. "The rejection of gays is a result of cultural and political factors," he says. "Just like honor killings and arranged marriages. They're not in the Koran either."
Abdullah lives in the US capital, Washington D.C., and says prayers at the funerals of gay persons, particularly if they died of AIDS, something no other imam is willing to do. He officiates at same-sex marriages and, for the past 11 years, has provided religious advice in an on-line forum entitled "Muslim Gay Men."
He regularly receives death threats but now laughs them off, saying: "How can two loving men pose a threat to the foundations God has laid?"
posted
Some of the same arguements used in Christianity is used in Islam I see.
I remember when I used to debate gays on Youtube. They would get angry and curse me for not defending their "Love" for other men.
I will say this about gays.........If you want to be gay, thats your choice, BUT you should not try and change a religion that speaks against perversions like this. Homosexuals can be saved, BUT they have to choose who they love more God or their sexlife.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Could Islam really be this gay unfriendly though? According to some claims, there is plenty of homosexuality in the Arab countries, and various Muslim religious writings even promise young boys available in paradise. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_the_Middle_East)
Are these claims false? Could not Islam be more gay friendly than claimed and these stories about persecution exaggerated? It is claimed for example that:
According to the Encyclopedia of Islam and the Muslim World, 2004
Whatever the legal strictures on sexual activity, the positive expression of male homeoerotic sentiment in literature was accepted, and assiduously cultivated, from the late eighth century until modern times. First in Arabic, but later also in Persian, Turkish and Urdu, love poetry by men about boys more than competed with that about women, it overwhelmed it. Anecdotal literature reinforces this impression of general societal acceptance of the public celebration of male-male love..
Also the Iranian president argued that homosexuality does not exist in Iran. If true, this would make stories of persecution untenable.
Posts: 124 | From: Zurich | Registered: May 2009
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posted
Islam prohibits Homesexuality in a very strict manner .in fact ,those who admit they are not going give up homosexuality must be killed,in theory
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Give it up!! It isn't an dirty habit like smoking or spitting, it is an innate feeling and attraction towards another human being.
You cannot choose who your heart follows, seems only us atheists and agnostics are open to humanity and reality!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: Islam prohibits Homesexuality in a very strict manner .in fact ,those who admit they are not going give up homosexuality must be killed,in theory
Why only in theory? Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
No wonder Arabic gays and lesbians are afraid to come out of the closet....
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: Islam prohibits Homesexuality in a very strict manner .in fact ,those who admit they are not going give up homosexuality must be killed,in theory
Why only in theory?
because today for example look at Egypt ,we know that gays have their site but no-one kills them ,exactly as when Islam tells you to cut the hand of the theif but we do not execute that punishment
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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but Quran does not tell you to kill gays Amkod, does it, thats biddah, that something YOU have added to the religion isnt it Mr Terrorist?
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Gays are a curse to any society. Not only is their culture sickening and decadent but they pose a threat to the advancement of humanity. How the **** are we humans supposed to reproduce when we are progressively being bombarded on the tolerance we need towards the oh so lovely gay community. Hell little kids in the US are being deprived of reading books with the word "dad" since in today's world there might be no dad but mom and mom. so yea. anyways just look at Jews they don't have to many queers.
Reproduction 101: if a species wants to survive it must reproduce. Humans cannot reproduce if the sexual act is conducted between two people of the same gender. Any human who conducts such a practice is sick and should be treated. If said gay person continues and refuses treatment but rather wishes to impose his sickness on you and your family then shoot him.
posted
Some of us have sex for fun and the last thing we want is kids... not all of us are baby making machines.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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As long as folk are happy and healthy I don't care what they get up to. Horses for courses...
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Of course we all come to a point in life when we don't want to have kids but still want sex. Does not explain why any guys Johnson should slip in another guys hole. God created man with a stick and woman with a hole for a reason you know? then again many here don't believe in god which is where the faulty logic comes into play.
quote:Originally posted by slaveforuu: Of course we all come to a point in life when we don't want to have kids but still want sex. Does not explain why any guys Johnson should slip in another guys hole. God created man with a stick and woman with a hole for a reason you know? then again many here don't believe in god which is where the faulty logic comes into play. [/QB]
If that was so, then God would not have given humankind the knack for invention.
Yes women have a hole, so do men have a hole. women have two holes and in Arab society both are used before marriage.
Women puts a girdle for a stick and man takes it up the arse.
Hence why Dommes were created, and male slaves such as yourself are created.
Lick my boots boy, become a man and take my stick like a man!
posted
You Disgusting little creep take you profanity elsewhere
Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: but Quran does not tell you to kill gays Amkod, does it, thats biddah, that something YOU have added to the religion isnt it Mr Terrorist?
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: but Quran does not tell you to kill gays Amkod, does it, thats biddah, that something YOU have added to the religion isnt it Mr Terrorist?
GODNESS!!
look at the story of the prophet Lot pbuh
GOSH!
Is that the story that matches the one in the Bible, the other Book from God that you DENY Akmad?? It tells you clearly that GOD Himself dealt with them.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: but Quran does not tell you to kill gays Amkod, does it, thats biddah, that something YOU have added to the religion isnt it Mr Terrorist?
GODNESS!!
look at the story of the prophet Lot pbuh
GOSH!
Is that the story that matches the one in the Bible, the other Book from God that you DENY Akmad?? It tells you clearly that GOD Himself dealt with them.
Just because god dealt with them during Lot does not mean they are nice fellows that we should tolerate and permit.
Posts: 47 | From: errer | Registered: Sep 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: but Quran does not tell you to kill gays Amkod, does it, thats biddah, that something YOU have added to the religion isnt it Mr Terrorist?
GODNESS!!
look at the story of the prophet Lot pbuh
GOSH!
Is that the story that matches the one in the Bible, the other Book from God that you DENY Akmad?? It tells you clearly that GOD Himself dealt with them.
Just because god dealt with them during Lot does not mean they are nice fellows that we should tolerate and permit.
Thats not what I said though is it? Akmad said
quote:Islam prohibits Homesexuality in a very strict manner .in fact ,those who admit they are not going give up homosexuality must be killed,in theory
so Akmad is adding that to his religion when there is NO instruction from Allah to kill gay people. biddah!
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I always thought in the eyes of the lord we were all equal! Damn, who would have thought in religion you were taught to hate and judge people!!!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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^what judgments are you talking about?,you have to accept the fact Islam has very strict priciples that can never be denied ,in fact Abo-baker the first caliph and the closest of the companions to the propher killed and attacked anyone who dared to say "it is not in Quran" abo-baker killed a lot of those fanatics and he considered them as a danger to the religion.
sorry ,this is how Islam is made,strict priciples,it is more strict than The army
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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I deny the principles, seems you should never say never. Believe this or not, not everyone is religious, therefore many people think you, yes you oh wise one, are totally wrong and quite frankly, narrow minded, predjudice, and insanely unwilling to accept others for who they are.
Homophobia disgusts me, people are people. They are human beings and I am certain that if there is a God, then if they have been good people they will be invited to walk in heaven for all eternity.
You are full of hatred towards so many people... you even argue and belittle followers of the same faith. I just find the hypocrasy laughable.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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I did not belittle any follower of any religion!!
You can not invent your own definiton of a certain religion and then say you are one of its followers!
exactly the same as sayinfg that you belong to the demogratic party but however you have completely different principles than its principles !
to be muslim,you have to follow the priciples laid by the originator of the religion namely the prophet pbuh and his companions who executed it exactly as it was delivered to them .
simple as that
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: ^what judgments are you talking about?,you have to accept the fact Islam has very strict priciples that can never be denied ,in fact Abo-baker the first caliph and the closest of the companions to the propher killed and attacked anyone who dared to say "it is not in Quran" abo-baker killed a lot of those fanatics and he considered them as a danger to the religion.
sorry ,this is how Islam is made,strict priciples,it is more strict than The army
oh so Abu Bakr didnt know about the verse which says if you kill the punishment is as if you killed the whole of mankind??
Dont you ever THINK Akmad? dont you ever wonder why the Quran says one thing yet the hadith say that the prophet and companions did the total opposite? Dont you ever protect the prophet from these wild accusations??
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I have gay friends in my circle of friends in the UK, both men and women. None of them deserve being condemned or judged by any fellow human. They are good people.
It is 2009, this should not even be a discussion!!!
Even the Catholic church who still oppose homosexuality teach people that they deserve respect and justice...
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I did not belittle any follower of any religion!!
Yes you do! constantly!
quote:You can not invent your own definiton of a certain religion and then say you are one of its followers!
YOU DO!!! I follow QURAN as given by ALLAH yet YOU have decided I am not even a Muslim!! You bloody judgemental intollerant HYPOCRITE
quote: to be muslim,you have to follow the priciples laid by the originator of the religion namely the prophet pbuh and his companions who executed it exactly as it was delivered to them .
simple as that
The originator is ALLAH you dumbass!! You are following HADITH originated by MEN who were not even alive when the prophet was!! Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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^ those are not accusations,it is reality that you can not beleive,you want to invent your own religion ,go and do it.
It is reality ,that Abo-baker killed a lot of them ,and it was not punishment it was judgment.
Allah himself said in the Quran ,if one of the muslim tribe have an argument then Muslims should seak peace but if one of them do not want to come back to the MAJORITY ,then we have to foight them
I posted the verse before mif you read anything
It is judgment not punishment
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
I think I may invent a religion (cult) as recommended. (I never new religions were invented)
It will be open to everybody who believes we are all equal and nobody has the right to believe they are better than others.
A modern day cult that can cope with how we have evolved to the stage we are at as is desperately needed.
My cult will also ban the words fight and kill... My cult will believe it is wrong to harm others for merely being different from what others assume is the norm.
I will call it the white soul cult. Where everybody is good on the inside, these people will reap their rewards on earth. Karma
It is open to all followers of the million religions out their. After all, not everybody can be certain that their religion is the 'one' and all others are wrong.
That is why I am a spiritual agnostic, I don't disbelieve anyone, I believe their is an element of truth in all religions... ultimately I believe we are all equal and free to live life as WE believe to be the true way to live.
posted
reality that you dont believe is in Quran, ignore it at YOUR peril Akmad but no way will you convince me that Abu Bakr killed anyone for saying 'thats not in Quran', no way. The companions were as close to Quran as the prophet was, they would never have invented anything as part of the religion that Allah did not send.
If you want to carry on inventing a new religion then you go ahead, I will stick with the one sent by Allah.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
wars? what wars? we are not talking wars Akmad we are talking about YOU saying that Abu Bakr killed muslims who said 'thats not in Quran', these would have been Muslims to have KNOWN Quran and to have been a 'danger to the religion', this is totally different to any wars like the battle of Badr and Uhud, they were not fighting against Muslims or killing other Muslims for arguing about what is in Quran
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Lady Ferret: Homophobia disgusts me, people are people. They are human beings and I am certain that if there is a God, then if they have been good people they will be invited to walk in heaven for all eternity.
I fully agree. And it amazes me how people can claim to be religious, yet show no understanding and compassion for others.
I always wonder what those who claim homosexual people should be killed would do if their own son or daughter turned out to be gay or lesbian ...
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Lady Ferret: I could never think ill of people for doing anything that makes them happy!!!
Exactly. And I don't understand why people can feel so much hate and aggression for others just because they chose a different lifestyle and hold different opinions than oneself. Why should I be bothered by how others live their life as long as they are not hurting me or anyone else? Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: ^what judgments are you talking about?,you have to accept the fact Islam has very strict priciples that can never be denied ,in fact Abo-baker the first caliph and the closest of the companions to the propher killed and attacked anyone who dared to say "it is not in Quran" abo-baker killed a lot of those fanatics and he considered them as a danger to the religion.
You make abu bakr seem like a criminal and you're so proud of him! So people are right when they say Islam is a violent religion.
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: sorry ,this is how Islam is made,strict priciples,it is more strict than The army
Great slogan, "Islam......it's stricter than the army" Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: Most animals are homosexual according to the experts
would you please entrtain us and tell us what those animals are?
As far as I know ,only pigs have high percentage of this disaster.
maybe you know someother animals. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Dalia
quote: And I don't understand why people can feel so much hate and aggression for others just because they chose a different lifestyle and hold different opinions than oneself. Why should I be bothered by how others live their life as long as they are not hurting me or anyone else?
it is like AIDS if you are going to allow those to spread their opinions ,then death and destruction to humanity.
quote: You make abu bakr seem like a criminal and you're so proud of him! So people are right when they say Islam is a violent religion
it is a fact that Abo-baker insisted that he must fight all those who did not pay the alms ,paid less or invented their own prayer because IT IS NOT IN THE QURAN,you know Heroob Al-Reda,don't you?
what do you think Abo-baker is gonna do when he finds that Islam as taught by the prophet is in a real danger?
it is WAR
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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Most animals are homosexual according to the experts
would you please entrtain us and tell us what those animals are?
I did not write this. Please quote correctly.
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: if you are going to allow those to spread their opinions ,then death and destruction to humanity.
With all respect, that is utter nonsense. How are homosexual people going to bring "death and destruction" to humanity?
A certain percentage of humans have always been homosexual, and a certain percentage will always be homosexual, it's as simple as that. Being tolerant towards gays and lesbians does not mean the whole population is going to become homosexual and stop procreating, which some of you here seem to be suggesting.
What exactly is so threatening about them, where is the danger? Why in the world should I care if my neighbour or friend choses to live with someone of the same or the opposite gender? Does it make a person less human if he or she choses a different lifestyle than myself? Does that make him or her a bad person with no value for society? Most certainly not!
I have gay and lesbian friends whom I like and value, and I don't see how any of them is in any way bringing "death and destruction" to anybody. And I find your suggestion that they don't deserve to live highly offensive and disgusting. Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: A certain percentage of humans have always been homosexual, and a certain percentage will always be homosexual, it's as simple as that. Being tolerant towards gays and lesbians does not mean the whole population is going to become homosexual and stop procreating
I agree with this point.
Posts: 2807 | From: Europe | Registered: Nov 2007
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so you say that guy people are nice and we should like them ?!
is it true?
what about the prophet Muhammad wand what he did with the gays and their ilk?
would you please answer the questions,do not troll,please
Ok i think most people on this forum can clearly see from my posts that i am completely against homosexuality! Either you learn english or at least put the effort into trying to understand my post of just don't fucking talk to me or about me ok ahmad?
Posts: 47 | From: errer | Registered: Sep 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Lady Ferret: I think I may invent a religion (cult) as recommended. (I never new religions were invented)
It will be open to everybody who believes we are all equal and nobody has the right to believe they are better than others.
A modern day cult that can cope with how we have evolved to the stage we are at as is desperately needed.
My cult will also ban the words fight and kill... My cult will believe it is wrong to harm others for merely being different from what others assume is the norm.
I will call it the white soul cult. Where everybody is good on the inside, these people will reap their rewards on earth. Karma
It is open to all followers of the million religions out their. After all, not everybody can be certain that their religion is the 'one' and all others are wrong.
That is why I am a spiritual agnostic, I don't disbelieve anyone, I believe their is an element of truth in all religions... ultimately I believe we are all equal and free to live life as WE believe to be the true way to live.
Happy hippy
Unless of course someone comes along that disregards your precious concept of tolerance then id bet my dick your cult would attack him in the name of compassion. Reminds you of Christianity no? turn the other cheek sexy
Posts: 47 | From: errer | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
Anyone who disagrees will burn in hell... where Celine Dion is played on a loop and fool is the only option....
I think telling me what would happen in a mythical religion if someone disagreed is a little too pointless to discuss tbh!!!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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