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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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What does this really mean?

It is referred to in the book "Origin and Evolution of Freemasonry" by Albert Churchward.

I find it quite disturbing this guy's ideas about the Masaba Negro.

Al Takruri, you recommended the book, what's your opinion on the so-called Masaba Negro?

Cheers.

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alTakruri
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All Churchwards stuff is downlevel put extremely
interesting and somewhat a precursor to the thought
of independent thinking African descent researchers
on the same matters.

But no I don't take any of his categories very
seriously anymore as I did when first I came
to read it.

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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^so what parts of the book would you consider to be solid (unbiased) information?
I haven't actually got my hands on it yet (it's on its way in the mail [Smile] ) but I read some of it using the Amazon.com "search inside" facility.

I find it fascinating how he talks about the "immutable" laws of the Universe (I would like to know these). He seems to use a series of letters (T.G.A.O.T.U ) to denote a deity figure who I believe to be the Egyptian Djehuti.

Very interesting book.

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
All Churchwards stuff is downlevel put extremely
interesting
and somewhat a precursor to the thought
of independent thinking African descent researchers
on the same matters.


But no I don't take any of his categories very
seriously anymore as I did when first I came
to read it.

You're a cryptic dude lol [Big Grin] . You might go over a few people's heads with your choice of wording.

What exactly do you mean by downlevel?

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alTakruri
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That's "MasonSpeak" for The Great Architect Of The Universe.
quote:
Originally posted by Young H*O*R*U*S:
He seems to use a series of letters (T.G.A.O.T.U ) to denote a deity figure who I believe to be the Egyptian Djehuti.


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alTakruri
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In this case, and because Churchward's writings are
like a hundred years old, downlevel sort of means he's
Adobe Reader pre-release compared to Adobe Reader 8.1.1

I'm purposely cryptic the better to stimulate independent
research and thought from those interested in receiving me.

quote:
Originally posted by Young H*O*R*U*S:
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
All Churchwards stuff is downlevel ...

You're a cryptic dude lol [Big Grin] . You might go over a few people's heads with your choice of wording.

What exactly do you mean by downlevel?


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alTakruri
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Ooooh, sorry, I mean one should borrow it from
the library or something because though its still
relevant for esoterica its Africana value is more
on the order of curiosity in its break from the
blatantly anti-African modus of his time (and that
doesn't mean he was totally free of all biases himself).

His ideas on corpuscles and anti-socialism and
stuff, well, I'm not so sure many people held
to them even in his day. I'm sure no one but
reactionaries agree with his premise that helping
the helpless lessens the (evolutionary) progress
of humanity.


quote:
Originally posted by Young H*O*R*U*S:
^so what parts of the book would you consider to be solid (unbiased) information?
I haven't actually got my hands on it yet (it's on its way in the mail [Smile] ) but I read some of it using the Amazon.com "search inside" facility.

I find it fascinating how he talks about the "immutable" laws of the Universe (I would like to know these). He seems to use a series of letters (T.G.A.O.T.U ) to denote a deity figure who I believe to be the Egyptian Djehuti.

Very interesting book.


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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
Ooooh, sorry, I mean one should borrow it from
the library or something because though its still
relevant for esoterica its Africana value is more
on the order of curiosity in its break from the
blatantly anti-African modus of his time (and that
doesn't mean he was totally free of all biases himself).

His ideas on corpuscles and anti-socialism and
stuff, well, I'm not so sure many people held
to them even in his day. I'm sure no one but
reactionaries agree with his premise that helping
the helpless lessens the (evolutionary) progress
of humanity.


quote:
Originally posted by Young H*O*R*U*S:
^so what parts of the book would you consider to be solid (unbiased) information?
I haven't actually got my hands on it yet (it's on its way in the mail [Smile] ) but I read some of it using the Amazon.com "search inside" facility.

I find it fascinating how he talks about the "immutable" laws of the Universe (I would like to know these). He seems to use a series of letters (T.G.A.O.T.U ) to denote a deity figure who I believe to be the Egyptian Djehuti.

Very interesting book.


I see. The way he talks about Freemasonry being always "available" at any time in history to the "higher" civilisations is very interesting.

Do you find any truth in his claim that the Egyptian "Freemasons" were exiled from Egypt into places like Persia where they helped to grow the civilisations in those lands? And that Ancient Egypt fell due to the bureaucratic government that eventually took hold?

What are the "laws" of the Universe he's speaking about? Are you aware of them?

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alTakruri
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There's no King's Road to Churchward. To know
what he's talking about you have to read a few
of his books all the way through.

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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I'll defo read the book soon as it arrives.

If there was an African society with this sort of knowledge, I would join it.

I have met many apparent (and self-proclaimed) masons in London in the many many corporations I've worked in. However, I'm not impressed by the way they present themselves and the lives they lead. They seem quite careless which suggests a lack of substance.

Africa needs something like this, if it doesn't already exist...

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alTakruri
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But all of this is based on "African Secret Society"
like your Ogboni one in Nigeria.

It's also among all the ethnies who employed the
age-grade system.

This is not a men's club or lodge type thing for Africans.
These societies are a quite serious function of society.

Masonry is just an outgrowth of tribal initiations
as a person moves from conception to birth to
infancy to childhood to youth to young adulthood
to full adulthood to parent to grandparent to
great grandparent to a deceased ancestor to a
deified ancestor to a deity (provided the person
has taken on prominent leadership roles during
their life; general, economist, virtuoso, master
physician, charismatic spiritualist, supreme
ruler, empire founder, etc.)

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
But all of this is based on "African Secret Society"
like your Ogboni one in Nigeria.

It's also among all the ethnies who employed the
age-grade system.

This is not a men's club or lodge type thing for Africans.
These societies are a quite serious function of society.

Masonry is just an outgrowth of tribal initiations
as a person moves from conception to birth to
infancy to childhood to youth to young adulthood
to full adulthood to parent to grandparent to
great grandparent to a deceased ancestor to a
deified ancestor to a deity (provided the person
has taken on prominent leadership roles during
their life; general, economist, virtuoso, master
physician, charismatic spiritualist, supreme
ruler, empire founder, etc.)

Okay... I am familiar with this. In fact, my mother's parents were initiates/members of the Ogboni club/cult. They regularly attended lodges (I wonder why an African cult would use the English word "lodge" though if it's AUTHENTIC???) and grandma was a Chief in Egba land (a sub-ethnic group within the Yoruba ethnic group). My "Christian" parents however considered it to be "demonic" and would have nothing to do with it.

The age-grade system is pretty much how Nigerian ethnic groups are structured but to the best of my knowledge has NO real VALUE left in it. Elders, older siblings etc just use it as an opportunity to bully and abuse their juniors. I was (and my older siblings would like to believe that I'm still [Big Grin] ) subject to the same system, however, its not worth anything these days. I did not go through any initiations whatsoever.

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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oh, something quite related: there is this very popular chant/song in many of the new age (pentecostal) churches in Yoruba-Igbo-Nigeria that goes like this...

'ogbo-ni power, power-less power'
'jee-sus power, su-per power!'

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alTakruri
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Oh you know what? You can read Volney's The Ruins
online
while you're waiting for your Churchward.

P.S. Was Fela an Egba?

quote:
And the Genius proceeded to enumerate and point out the objects to me: Those piles of ruins, said he, which you see in that narrow valley watered by the Nile, are the remains of opulent cities, the pride of the ancient kingdom of Ethiopia. Behold the wrecks of her metropolis, of Thebes with her hundred palaces, the parent of cities, and monument of the caprice of destiny. There a people, now forgotten, discovered, while others were yet barbarians, the elements of the arts and sciences. A race of men now rejected from society for their sable skin and frizzled hair, founded on the study of the laws of nature, those civil and religious systems which still govern the universe.

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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Yep. Proud to Say [Big Grin] . He was from my mother's home town. I attended weekend maths classes with one of his many sons, at Fela's house/shrine [Big Grin] in Ikeja lagos. I lived not very far from there at the time and, spent my early teens loitering in the area where the "older dudes" hung out smoking pot listening to revolutionary music.
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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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eureka...
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alTakruri
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Are you telling me I need take a bath? [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

quote:
Originally posted by Young H*O*R*U*S:
eureka...


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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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Thanks for the keys, alTakruri. I take my hat off in salutation. I am in priceless debt.
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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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What is the difference/relationship between "The Laws of Nature" and "The Laws of Harmony"?
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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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Hi, alTakruri... MY BIG BROTHER from another mother. Again, thanks for the keys [Wink]

Do you know about this book, is it worth adding to my collection?

AFRICAN ORIGINS OF FREEMASONRY

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alTakruri
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I now nothing about this book or other recent ones
like it. Over the years I became less and less
interested in "esoterica" then back when I was
devoring everything by Churchward, Higgins, and
Massey with Doc Ben's Mystery Systems, Volney's
ruins, and Jame's Stolen Legacy thrown in to
boot.

RU2 and MasonicRebel may better be able to fill
you in on all the Africa/Masonry works that have
come out over the last 10 or 15 years.

--------------------
Intellectual property of YYT al~Takruri © 2004 - 2017. All rights reserved.

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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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^why did you lose interest?

Also how true do you find the following statement?
"Freemasonry has existed for at least six hundred thousand years"

That's a VERY LONG time!!!

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Djehuti
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^ What evidence is there for such a claim??
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ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru
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^I don't know... just read it in the book. But then, the same guy (Churchward) created the "Masaba Negro" concept out of thin air.

I doubt much that he says is true but as alTakruri pointed out, in his attempts to taint WHAT HE KNOWS by lying, he somehow points you towards the truth...

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GlobalAfrikanSupremacy
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Interesting.
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I just had to insert my flip azz into the discussion. You know, I really don't care about all this afro_lunacy, but I have to make my little self more important.
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Chopper City
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Interesting topic.
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