posted
Some Black Americans like to claim everything in ancient times in Africa as black, in their understanding what black is?
Even some claimed Babylon as a black civilization, lol.
In Africa, if you are partly black, you are not black. You are not white either of course.
In Ancient Egypt , that was the case, you have a civilization that was neither black or white.
In another point, current Egyptians, more than any one are the direct descendants of ancient Egypt, yes they have mixed with many other races. But ancient Egyptians never left Egypt and were not massacred or killed by a disease. They intermixed with many different foreigners through History to make the current Egyptians.
There is no one who can claim a pure race, may be in Brazil or Central Africa, you will find a pure race. But not in the centre of the World, Egypt.
posted
Correct. Given the location of Egypt, and what we know of the behavior of humankind throughout history, AE would have been a largely mixed ethnic population, just like they are today. When geography permits races to intermingle at the edges, they invariably intermix.
This is why AE paintings depict them not being as light as Europeans but not as dark as Nubians, and it also explains why their are depictions of Europeans/Semites and Nubians peppered throughout. The bulk of the populations however, derived from a mixture of those groups and other groups that made inroads into Egypt thru conquest during its long history.
By today's standards, they would be classified as being closer to Black than to White since any admixture and dark skin at the very least puts one in the category of non-White.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
^ You are both cowards and trolls who start new threads to run away from old ones which already debunked you....
Ancient Egyptians are Blacks, according to Ancient Egyptians...
quote:Originally posted by Wally: I apologize to the veterans on this forum for posting information that they're already familiar with, but I feel it's necessary for the newbies who come here frequently and with confused or distorted notions regarding the Ancient Egyptians, and who come with the following delusions:
Self-delusion A recent post started out with "Some claim that Kemet means black people". The key word in this first statement is "claim" which is a synonym for "believe", which seeks to place a human language in the same category as religion. You can believe in or not believe in God, that's one thing; but you don't believe that "veni" in Latin means "I came"; you either KNOW or you don't. However, this delusion leads to one that has been fabricated by the distorters of Egyptology.
Assisted delusion "The Egyptians called their country "Kmt" or "Kemet" which means "Black" after the color of the soil." This is simply an absolute lie. There is nothing in the grammar, even if one were to use an electron microscope to search for an example that the soil or earth had any connection with the use of this word. The only references to the soil in the names of Ancient Egypt were the names "TaMeri and TaMere"; "Ta" meaning "earth, land, etc." This mantra is almost always repeated to "inform" the reader of why the word "Black" for Egypt and Egyptians was used, and probably using the age old philosophy that if you repeat a lie often enough, and long enough, it soon becomes accepted as the truth. NOT if one knows better...
KEMET
A comprehensive list of the structure and usages of perhaps the most significant word in the Ancient Egyptian language. All of these words can be found in "An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary" by E. A. Wallis Budge, Dover, NY
Used as an adjective
kem;kemem;kemom - black kemu - black (m) keme.t - black (f) hime.t keme.t - "black woman" (woman of Black) himu.t keme.t - "black women" (women of Black)
Used as a noun
keme.t - any black person, place, or thing
A determinative is then used to be more specific:
keme.t (woman) - "the Black woman"; ie, 'divine woman' keme.t (cow) - "a Black cow" - ie, a 'sacred cow' Keme.t (nation) - "the Black nation"
kem - a black one (m) keme.t - a black one (f) kemu - black ones (m) kemu.t - black ones (f) kemeti - two black ones
Used for Nationality
Sa Kemet - a man of Black (an Egyptian male) Sa.t Kemet - a woman of Black (an Egyptian female) Rome.t Kemet - the people of Black (Egyptians) Kemetou - Blacks (ie, 'citizens') Kememou - Black people (of the Black nation)
Other usages
Sa Kem - "Black man", a god, and son of Sa.t Kem.t - "Black woman", a goddess (page 589b) kem (papyrus) - to end, complete kem.t (papyrus) - the end, completion kemi - finished products kem khet (stick) - jet black ... kemwer - any Egyptian person, place or thing ('to be black' + 'to be great')
Kemwer - "The Great Black" - a title of Osiris - the Ancestor of the race
Kemwer (body of water) - "the Great Black sea" - the Red sea Kemwer (body of water + river bank) - a lake in the Duat (the OtherWorld) Kemwer Nteri - "the sacred great Black bulls" kemwer (fortress) - a fort or town Kemwer (water) - the god of the great Black lake
Kem Amut - a black animal goddess Kemi.t-Weri.t - "the great Black woman", a goddess Kem-Neb-Mesen.t - a lion god Kem ho - "black face", a title of the crocodile Rerek kem; kemu (shield) - buckler, shield kem (wood) - black wood kem.t (stone) - black stone or powder kem.tt (plant) - a plant kemu (seed) - seeds or fruit of the kem plant kemti - "black image", sacred image or statue
Using the causative "S"
S_kemi - white haired, grey-headed man (ie, to have lost blackness) S_kemkem - to destroy, overthrow, annihilate S_kemem - to blacken, to defile
Antonyms
S_desher - to redden, make ruddy S_desheru - red things, bloody wounds
Some interesting Homonyms (pages 770 > )
qem - to behave in a seemly manner Qemi - the south, Upper Egypt qem.t - reed, papyrus qemaa - to throw a boomerang qem_au - to overthrow qemam.t - mother, parent qemamu - workers (in metal, wood) qemqem - tambourines qemd - to weep qemati - statue, image - same as kemti qema - to create qemaiu - created beings Qemau;Qemamu - The Creator
Deshret - the opposite of Kemet
deshr.t - any red (ie, non-Black) person, place, or thing ... deshr.t (woman) - "the Red woman"; ie, 'evil woman' deshr.t (cow) - "a Red cow" - ie, the 'devil's cow' deshr - a red one (m) deshr.t - a red one (f) deshru - red ones (m) deshru.t - red ones (f) -- White or light-skinned people; devils deshreti - two red ones
posted
Egypt is the center of the world now, AMR1? I knew it got hot over there, but I never knew it was really a big subterranean ball of molten metal!
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
What the hell is going on with all these mixed up in the mind trolls calling everyone mixed as a way to avoid saying black? Its even more funny considering they don't do the same for whiteness, despite the even more obvious evidence. What is the reason for their trollish obsession with blackness and wanting to disprove it so much?
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Somebody PLEASE close this thread! I can feel the collective IQ of this forum free-falling.
THE AR were black, and don't need anyone trying o redefine them, and AMR needs psychological help.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Charlie Bass: What the hell is going on with all these mixed up in the mind trolls calling everyone mixed as a way to avoid saying black? Its even more funny considering they don't do the same for whiteness, despite the even more obvious evidence. What is the reason for their trollish obsession with blackness and wanting to disprove it so much?
^ The power of Black identity = the threat of Black identity = the fear of Black identity.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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We are saying that in Africa, if you are partly not black, you are not considered black, like what Americans do or think in redfining blackness.
Obama, Tiger Woods, most African Americans who are not pure Africans are not black in our view in Africa, but brown. They don't qualify as black.
If you have another system in America, don't enforce it on us.
Secondly Ancient Egyptians were not pure blacks, never did migration through Egypt, whether coming out of the continent hundred of thousands of years ago or entering the continent during and after the ice age, kept Egypt pure.
Thirdly, Ancient Egyptians never left Egypt and never were inhialated by invaders. They stayed and mixed with foreigners who wanted to come to a country that was UNTIL A THOUSAND YEARS AGO THE NEW YORK OF THE WORLD. It was a New York OF TEH WORLD, NOT FOR 200 YEARS LIKE NEW YORK, BUT FOR 6000 YEARS.
Therefore today Egyptians although have changed compared to their ancestors, they and no one else are their direct descendants.
quote:Ancient Egyptians never left Egypt and never were inhialated by invaders. They stayed and mixed with foreigners.
^ Which is why much of modern Egypt does not resemble Black African Ancient Egypt, nor does it practise the ancient culture of Black Egypt, but rather the culture of non Black, non African, non Egyptian foreigners, such as Arabs, who had nothing to do with dynastic Egypt. [much like the Spaniards visa the native Aztec of Mexico]
So how does this help you?
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
AMR1 - If you are a true Egyptian then you are Black. If you are not Black, then you are a Turk, a Greek, or perhaps a Roman - in that order of probability. If you are none of the above, then you are mixed. My suggestion is that if you are dark enough to be called Black, then do so, if not, then be satisfied with what you are. However, that leaves you with no claim to the cultural heritage of North Africa and the middle East.
By way of demonstration, please note this DNA analysis of the quintessential Arabized Turk - the Bedouin.
Bedouin DNA
The total number of different haplotypes in our sample of 120 Saudi Arabs were 107 (K = 89%) when HVSI and II variation and RFLP were taken into account [see Additional file 1]; however, the K value dropped to 64% when only partial HVSI variation was used in comparison with other populations (see Table 1). Some lineages had to be included into imprecise groups such as H/HV/R for haplotype and haplogroup frequency comparison, although all Saudi haplotypes were completely sorted into their respective clades and sub-clades [see Additional file 1]. The bulk of individuals (86%) belonged to the Eurasian macrohaplogroup N and its main R branch (75%), while the Sub-Saharan Africa macrohaplogroup L (7%) and the Asian macrohaplogroup M (7%) accounted for a smaller proportion of haplotypes. (It should be noted that Saudi's are Arabized).
Conclusion: 86% of a Bedouins genes are from the Eurasian Plains - the place of evolution of ALL Whites and Mongols.
AMR1, you also wrote, quote: Even some claimed Babylon as a black civilization, lol.
Below is a relief of the Assyrian King, greeting the Babylonian King (on the right). Please tell me which of these two men look like a Turk or ANY kind of White?
To refresh your mind, this is what a Turkish king looks like.
Please let us not get another thread started, these dude need learn to how to read properly. There is an extremely large thread devoted just for this topic.
posted
I think many people are too biased, I agree with the first poster. While I consider the Ancient Egyptians today black, this is the reason I consider the Ancients black, because I believe though pure race blacks were among ancient Egyptians, much like today- there was heavy mixture, much like today, but the bottom line is, the overall appearance of them will be/are "black".
I am convinced that people intermixed I am also convinced that Egypt may of had a caste system.
You know in Egypt when I have been there, blacks are only Americans. They do not call other African tribes blacks, only an American black, I am not sure what they call white and I am not sure why they only call Americans black.
Hawass said the Egyptians were not black, he means not the type of people in America's black communities, he says they were not Arabs, but he also knows Arabs are by tribe. Many people get lost in translation you have to understand someone's background before you think he is attacking you - because what you think is how things are classified at home are not everywhere.
Hawass is Egyptian, his statements come from an Egyptian heart, he knows the culture he understands how they classify, I think he didn't even bother to say "they were not white" because he knows the Greeks were "white", and they were Egyptians, he is now looking for their tombs. Maybe to be sure we may ask him were the Nubians Egyptian, because he know they were at some point too.
But otherwise, I also think he would not mention whites, because he must think it is crazy for white people to try to claim Egypt before the Greeks just like he thinks it is crazy for blacks to want to claim Egypt when they are not Egyptian people. He is very rooted in his culture. Understand him. You know many Africans see American blacks as a tribe of their own people.
Posts: 105 | From: Japan | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
No, HistoryFacelift; What you wrote is not true. Hawass is doing the same thing that your people are doing. That is, trying to obscure racial history, so as to claim participation by those who were not there, or did not participate (as in your case). You call Hawass an Egyptian, if you mean by that, not of KMT, then I agree, otherwise he is not an Egyptian, he is a Turk. Just as you are not Jomon or Ainu or Shang or Xia, but rather Zhou.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I will post it again for the 4th time ... follow the link: Click Here!!!
I will continue to post this message until people get it in their heads that this topic has been discused several of times. One of the more recent can be found if you just follow the link.
Peace!~
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Creating another thread covering an extensive subject that has already been dealt wth effectively in another thread only begs the question that maybe AMR1 wasn't satisfied with the conclusion and implication that he got from the initial thread in question stickied at the top of this forum. A few relevant points to make:
- Race is a misnomer and a scientifically bunk concept
- Black is a relativist social construct generally based on relatively dark skin color
- Ancient Egyptians saw themselves as Black
- Modern Egyptians hold a completely different world view than ancient Egyptians and many have over the years, been influenced both genetically and politically by foreigners
- Skeletal studies, genetic observations (modern and ancient), assessment of ancient melanin content, and cultural studies all point to the conclusion that ancient Egyptians by and large were closest in relation to groups almost universally deemed as Black outside the continent. What is true about the varied interpretation within the continent its self may not be as important since as Rasol has shown via one of Wally's posts, is that ancient Egyptians considered themselves to be such as well.
^In other words, Race doesn't exist, biological relatedness and physical appearance does as well as the concept of "Black people", ancient Egyptians were biologically related to other Black Africans, shared a similar appearance to other Black Africans, and identified with the concept of "Black people" as a way to describe themselves and their nation. Therefore, ancient Egyptians were Black and should be acknowledged as such by anyone who finds such terms useful. If not, then at the very least, they were overwhelmingly African in nature and origin with no clear relation to non-Africans.
Close thread.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Below is a relief of the Assyrian King, greeting the Babylonian King (on the right). Please tell me which of these two men look like a Turk or ANY kind of White?
The image has no paint, but they look like they could be Arabian (neither black nor white), which doesn't surprised me, as Mesopotamia is on the continent of Arabia.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Ohhhh, no. He's back! What is wrong with this guy? I can't believe this.
Posts: 603 | From: Mobile, Alabama | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by HistoryFacelift: I think many people are too biased, I agree with the first poster. While I consider the Ancient Egyptians today black, this is the reason I consider the Ancients black, because I believe though pure race blacks were among ancient Egyptians, much like today- there was heavy mixture, much like today, but the bottom line is, the overall appearance of them will be/are "black".
I am convinced that people intermixed I am also convinced that Egypt may of had a caste system.
You know in Egypt when I have been there, blacks are only Americans. They do not call other African tribes blacks, only an American black, I am not sure what they call white and I am not sure why they only call Americans black.
Hawass said the Egyptians were not black, he means not the type of people in America's black communities, he says they were not Arabs, but he also knows Arabs are by tribe. Many people get lost in translation you have to understand someone's background before you think he is attacking you - because what you think is how things are classified at home are not everywhere.
Hawass is Egyptian, his statements come from an Egyptian heart, he knows the culture he understands how they classify, I think he didn't even bother to say "they were not white" because he knows the Greeks were "white", and they were Egyptians, he is now looking for their tombs. Maybe to be sure we may ask him were the Nubians Egyptian, because he know they were at some point too.
But otherwise, I also think he would not mention whites, because he must think it is crazy for white people to try to claim Egypt before the Greeks just like he thinks it is crazy for blacks to want to claim Egypt when they are not Egyptian people. He is very rooted in his culture. Understand him. You know many Africans see American blacks as a tribe of their own people.
How the hell is it biased to say they were not mixed race, but black? Hawass doesn't know what he's talking about. Him being an Egyptian does not mean he is an expert on what the ancient Egyptians look like. You are just as retarded as the first two posters.
Posts: 603 | From: Mobile, Alabama | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by sshaun002: Correct. Given the location of Egypt, and what we know of the behavior of humankind throughout history, AE would have been a largely mixed ethnic population, just like they are today. When geography permits races to intermingle at the edges, they invariably intermix.
This is why AE paintings depict them not being as light as Europeans but not as dark as Nubians, and it also explains why their are depictions of Europeans/Semites and Nubians peppered throughout. The bulk of the populations however, derived from a mixture of those groups and other groups that made inroads into Egypt thru conquest during its long history.
By today's standards, they would be classified as being closer to Black than to White since any admixture and dark skin at the very least puts one in the category of non-White.
Not as dark as Nubians? Are you saying that because they were not as dark as Nubians that they weren't black? Bwahahahahahah!! That's a really good one there. You really need to be a comedian. We really need a laughing emoticon on this site folks.
Posts: 603 | From: Mobile, Alabama | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
^^Of course he doesn't make sense. Keita, Yurco, Trigger and just about any other objective scholar will attest to the fact that their closest living relatives were Nubians and both populations varied in complexion from north to south (like most Africans). The fact that Nigerians as a whole on average aren't as dark as Nilotes doesn't negate the fact that they are both non-mixed Black Africans. I'd learn to ignore Shaun if I were you.
-------------------- mr.writer.asa@gmail.com Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by HistoryFacelift: I think many people are too biased, I agree with the first poster. While I consider the Ancient Egyptians today black, this is the reason I consider the Ancients black, because I believe though pure race blacks were among ancient Egyptians, much like today- there was heavy mixture, much like today, but the bottom line is, the overall appearance of them will be/are "black".
I am convinced that people intermixed I am also convinced that Egypt may of had a caste system.
You know in Egypt when I have been there, blacks are only Americans. They do not call other African tribes blacks, only an American black, I am not sure what they call white and I am not sure why they only call Americans black.
Hawass said the Egyptians were not black, he means not the type of people in America's black communities, he says they were not Arabs, but he also knows Arabs are by tribe. Many people get lost in translation you have to understand someone's background before you think he is attacking you - because what you think is how things are classified at home are not everywhere.
Hawass is Egyptian, his statements come from an Egyptian heart, he knows the culture he understands how they classify, I think he didn't even bother to say "they were not white" because he knows the Greeks were "white", and they were Egyptians, he is now looking for their tombs. Maybe to be sure we may ask him were the Nubians Egyptian, because he know they were at some point too.
But otherwise, I also think he would not mention whites, because he must think it is crazy for white people to try to claim Egypt before the Greeks just like he thinks it is crazy for blacks to want to claim Egypt when they are not Egyptian people. He is very rooted in his culture. Understand him. You know many Africans see American blacks as a tribe of their own people.
How the hell is it biased to say they were not mixed race, but black? Hawass doesn't know what he's talking about. Him being an Egyptian does not mean he is an expert on what the ancient Egyptians look like. You are just as retarded as the first two posters.
I don't think I am retarded. I think they are biased because they do not want to believe other people came to Egypt and intermix, one view wants to say Egypt was ONLY black, no one else was there, no one else wants to mix. The other side wants to say Egypt was ONLY white, no one else came, no one mixed. You understand?
I never said Hawass is an expert, but he is Egyptian, he does not think like Americans, to him black is American, does not mean he consideres Ethiopians black, even though to Americans Ethiopians are black.
You are so quick and harsh, but you never asked to explain if you did not know what I was saying.
It's not about saying Egypt was mixed race, it is about saying there is a possibility of mix raced people being there because it was not made up of one race of people at all times.
Posts: 105 | From: Japan | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
HistoryFacelift - No one is arguing against many Egyptians EVENTUALLY becoming mixed. There are many Tomb portraits and other artifacts that demonstrate that they did. Rather, the argument is whether or not Egyptians were something other than Black before the Greeks showed up. The simple answer to that is, What else was there to be?? Whites were still in the Eurasian Plains and so were the Mongols. Unless someone knows of a lost Race, the argument is pointless.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: HistoryFacelift - No one is arguing against many Egyptians EVENTUALLY becoming mixed. There are many Tomb portraits and other artifacts that demonstrate that they did. Rather, the argument is whether or not Egyptians were something other than Black before the Greeks showed up. The simple answer to that is, What else was there to be?? Whites were still in the Eurasian Plains and so were the Mongols. Unless someone knows of a lost Race, the argument is pointless.
Mummy Portraits from the Roman Period
I doubt that you're trying to make that argument but just to clarify assomeone else on here got exposed previously for trying to portray such Fayum portraits as these to be Native Egyptians. It is well documented that during the roman period, Fayum portraits were reserved to those members of the hierarchy who were definitely not Egyptians, as can be seen. The subjects of the paintings were generally exclusively greco-roman as this was a greco-Roman tradition with materials and woods transported directly from Europe. iN OTHER WORDS, these aren't even mixed Egyptians, they are greeks and Romans, period.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by HistoryFacelift: You know in Egypt when I have been there, blacks are only Americans. They do not call other African tribes blacks, only an American black, I am not sure what they call white and I am not sure why they only call Americans black.
I thought some Egyptians were called "Asmar"?
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Another Topic about the Race of Egypt. The only good thing about these threads is that I always seem to learn something new from them.
All I ask is that Amr1 or Shaun post some kind of *facts* to back up there point. It just seems we get a lull on the forum and the same people repeat the same things over and over.
Let me just say that Ancient Egypt *was* mixed. With different African Tribes from the south and the west. Some people say there was a inflitration of Nomads from the east that contributed to Ancient Egypt also but I really have not read much info on this to say for certain.
To sum it up Ancient Egypt was African having people from the east(if this is the case) does not take away from Egypts roots and culture being African. And people please spare the forum of the "Lighter" then Nubians arguement. It kind of makes no sense that some people try and use this as proof that Ancient Egyptians were somehow a differnet "race" then the Nubians even though more and more scholars are coming out saying that Egyptians were closest to the Nubians.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Some Proof of a Nubian, Egyptian Connection:
"The Naqada [Upper Egypt] and Kerma ["Nubian"] series are so similar that they are barely distinguishable in the the territorial maps; they subsume the first dynasty series from Abydos" - Keita (1990)
Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa, S.O.Y. Keita, American Journal of Physical Anthropology (1990)
the men of Egypt are mostly brown and black with a skinny and desiccated look
Source: Ammianus Marcellinus, Book XXII, para 16 (23)
X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980).
Courtesy of James Harris and Edward Wente:
In terms of head shape, the XVIV and XX dynasties look more like the early Nubian skulls from the mesolithic with low vaults and sloping, curved foreheads.The XVII and XVIII dynasty skulls are shaped more like modern Nubians with globular skulls and high vaults.
The people who bear the greatest resemblence to the ancient Egyptians, at present, are the Nubians ; and next are the Abyssinians; page 530
Edward Lane Manners and Customs of the Modern Egyptians
After this the color of nubians and the Egyptians really should not be an issue, People need to stop the "But the Egyptians were lighter then the Nubians" Remember that the Egyptians portrayed some Nubians and Puntites as the same color as them. Off course If someone has a different *Facts* then I would not mind reading it.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: HistoryFacelift - No one is arguing against many Egyptians EVENTUALLY becoming mixed. There are many Tomb portraits and other artifacts that demonstrate that they did. Rather, the argument is whether or not Egyptians were something other than Black before the Greeks showed up. The simple answer to that is, What else was there to be?? Whites were still in the Eurasian Plains and so were the Mongols. Unless someone knows of a lost Race, the argument is pointless.
Mummy Portraits from the Roman Period
I doubt that you're trying to make that argument but just to clarify assomeone else on here got exposed previously for trying to portray such Fayum portraits as these to be Native Egyptians. It is well documented that during the roman period, Fayum portraits were reserved to those members of the hierarchy who were definitely not Egyptians, as can be seen. The subjects of the paintings were generally exclusively greco-roman as this was a greco-Roman tradition with materials and woods transported directly from Europe. iN OTHER WORDS, these aren't even mixed Egyptians, they are greeks and Romans, period.
You know, I was just about to say that they don't even look mixed. Just tanned whites with curly European type hair. Not descendants of white Romans and black Egyptians.
Posts: 603 | From: Mobile, Alabama | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
If you are right. Marc assertion that the original Greeks were Black Africans is on point because these brother(Romans) look Black to me.. . . with the slightest white influence.
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: HistoryFacelift - No one is arguing against many Egyptians EVENTUALLY becoming mixed. There are many Tomb portraits and other artifacts that demonstrate that they did. Rather, the argument is whether or not Egyptians were something other than Black before the Greeks showed up. The simple answer to that is, What else was there to be?? Whites were still in the Eurasian Plains and so were the Mongols. Unless someone knows of a lost Race, the argument is pointless.
Mummy Portraits from the Roman Period
I doubt that you're trying to make that argument but just to clarify assomeone else on here got exposed previously for trying to portray such Fayum portraits as these to be Native Egyptians. It is well documented that during the roman period, Fayum portraits were reserved to those members of the hierarchy who were definitely not Egyptians, as can be seen. The subjects of the paintings were generally exclusively greco-roman as this was a greco-Roman tradition with materials and woods transported directly from Europe. iN OTHER WORDS, these aren't even mixed Egyptians, they are greeks and Romans, period.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Yeah, they look like they could walk on the streets of Guinea bissaue and not stick out as a sour thumb. Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by a biatch: Yeah, they look like they could walk on the streets of Guinea bissaue and not stick out as a sour thumb.
Yes, it's sometimes irritating how rediculous they make themselves look, and attempt to make africanists (myself) look, but the fact that white racists if reading such sillyness would get ten times as irritated soothes it a little.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: If so the Romans were definitely Black Africans. . . .originally. All of these people look Black African to me with the slighest white influence.
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): I disagree.
I know tan and tan -ish white boys and girls who have somewhat distant black ancestry.
You mean like you? lol. Aren't you that vomit colored gay mulatto that showed your pic with a freakin' bird on your shoulder?!?! Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:Hawass doesn't know what he's talking about.
Remember Hawass denies that AE were *African*.
This is very revealing.
It's clear that he wants to deny that they were Black, but he associates Native AFrican with Black. [inadvertently, but also correctly...ie - Freudian slip]
So for Hawass, in order for the Ancient Egyptians to be -not- Black, he must claim they were not African.
But of course, Kemet was African and is acknolwedged as so by most all scholars - when pressed.
So......
I'm sure if Hawass had it to think about, he would reword his claims that AE weren't African, as it implies that being native to Africa would mean they were Black, which they were....which he knows.
So does Amr1.
These threads exist as futile exercises in denial.
Of course, they never work to convince even the trolls who start them....so they must repeat the exercise. Part Two, Part Twenty-Two. Whatever. Km.t Rm.t = Black People. That isn't going to change.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Why the race of ancient Egypt and its connection to todays Egyptians is important to me?
My reply is that I am a Nubian mixed with Egyptians who had mixed largly like all North African and middle easterners with arabians and Europeans. We are the only descendants of those who were living in this lands, including North Sudan, the ancients were darker than us, probably 5000 years ago. They themselves mixed and not pure, as people were mixing before even written history.
Therefore no one but us has direct right to this history, before the rest of all humanity.They want the cousins of those ancients like the one in Ethiopia or Southern Sudan to have the legacy of their great grand uncles, instead of us their direct grandchildren.
Plus being muslims, and there is a war against Islam. This attempt became stronger as they are trying to rob us of that history by saying we are not as pure as the black Ancient Nubians or pure ancient Egyptians were. While those were themselves although darker, were not pure blacks themselves. Why because they don't want the Arabized Muslims to have any credit.
You once said Ancient Egyptians were pure blacks, but lighter due to their geography. I realized that this is defintely not true, since people moved out of Africa and returned to it, through Egypt mainly for 200 thousand years before there was an ancient Egypt, check the national geographic.
I being a direct descendant of ancient Egypt and Nubia, I belong to families who live from Cairo to Roseiris, before the Arabs or Islam, and some I know before the Romans. Yes I don't worship or dress no longer like my ancient ancestors of Egypt and Nubia. But I am distinctively different from a Saudi Arabian or a Syrian or Ethiopian or Ugandan. I and my other brothers arabized people are the direct descendants of all civilizations that occured from Al Andulus to Babylon, and since Arabized while the Koran is written in Arabic, the most dangerous book on the views of their rabbis and priests . The Christian Zionist West who hates Islam therefore has decalred war on us as number one enemy and against our right to anything good that we have, one of it is our history. They naturally don't want to portray their enemy with any thing that gives this enemy credit.
quote:Why the race of ancient Egypt and its connection to todays Egyptians is important to me?
^ Because you're a self hating Black man, reduced to being a self deluded "wannabe Arab" hypocrite, which means 'you're in a hell of your own creation'.
Next silly question....
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Here it comes again, "self-hating" Lol, the ultimate weapon of rasol. You can't expect AMR1 to have the same identity as you want him to, learn how to respect other peoples right to determine who they are without throwing insults.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Hawass doesn't know what he's talking about.
Remember Hawass denies that AE were *African*.
This is very revealing.
It's clear that he wants to deny that they were Black, but he associates Native AFrican with Black. [inadvertently, but also correctly...ie - Freudian slip]
So for Hawass, in order for the Ancient Egyptians to be -not- Black, he must claim they were not African.
But of course, Kemet was African and is acknolwedged as so by most all scholars - when pressed.
So......
I'm sure if Hawass had it to think about, he would reword his claims that AE weren't African, as it implies that being native to Africa would mean they were Black, which they were....which he knows.
So does Amr1.
These threads exist as futile exercises in denial.
Of course, they never work to convince even the trolls who start them....so they must repeat the exercise. Part Two, Part Twenty-Two. Whatever. Km.t Rm.t = Black People. That isn't going to change.
Well actually I have seen Hawass say Ancient Egyptians were black and African but they were NOT *NEGRO* so...this seems to be his new consensus.
Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Hawass was using the egyptian social understanding of "africans" which is not in reference of geography. Most Egyptians don't know the meaning of "negroid", African basically means "negroid" in everday Egyptian discourse. You will even find extremely dark nubians but with sharp features and silky hair talking about "africans" as in third person, they don't use it as a geographical term.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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