posted
Stole the title from the Zep song Good Times Bad Times. You do know what comes after the ellipses ... right?
Unfortunately, like rock and roll, the *gang* is here to stay, hey. And you'll never guess what song I lifted that one from, hah.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Unfortunately, for those who have been raised and fed that western propagated chopped, chunked and formed mystery propaganda meat called history, it actually seems weird to hear people talk about ancient Egyptians being black. So the most vilest, racist, evil and destructive people ever to exist on the planet get treated as if they are the most righteous, honorable and trustworthy sources of history, to the point where those who try to tell the TRUTH are seen as racists......
But that is exactly the point of WHITE supremacy, which is to CONVINCE everyone of the INNATE superiority of whites, to the point that NOBODY will EVER question their motives or PURITY of wisdom and intelligence or the idea that whites were EVER at the bottom of the heap in any substantial sense. And it is working, as so many of the people who have been indoctrinated, brain washed and co-opted by the WHITE dominated social-historical-political-economic complex openly show their support for and belief in the WHITE power trip that is called history. They don't even question it for ONE SECOND. It is when you attempt to OPEN THEIR EYES that they become angry and in many cases will ATTACK YOU for taking them out of their fantasy land comfort zone....
I mean the idea that someone would actually say that calling ancient African people black is racist is a perfect example of the retarded, self serving, racist, pseudo historical nonsense that white people conjure up to justify their BULLSH*T. It is like the fake crocodile tears they shed so quickly when they think someone is about to stomp a well deserved mud hole in their behind for all the sh*t they have done. Unfortunately for us, it works all too often.
Posts: 8895 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Speaking of rock and roll, Takruri, I heard a Jimmy Hendrix song (other than that Woodstock stuff I saw on VH1 that was a little much for me) for the first time a month or so back and MAN was it amazing. Now I see what the big deal was.
I'm guessing it would have been better to have been stoned while listening to that Woodstock stuff though.. [?]
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): Speaking of rock and roll, Takruri, I heard a Jimmy Hendrix song (other than that Woodstock stuff I saw on VH1 that was a little much for me) for the first time a month or so back and MAN was it amazing. Now I see what the big deal was.
I'm guessing it would have been better to have been stoned while listening to that Woodstock stuff though.. [?]
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
^ When you say "most" you mean Albinos who have color impaired vision due to ocular dysfunction.
Oh yeah, and whites can't hear Jimi. That's why he was scheduled to do an album with Miles Davis. First session was due to begin, the day after his death.
Led Zepplin! Gimme a break. Now I know for sure ya'll a bunch of Albinos. Treble ears...LOL
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
The 60s and 70s were the place to be! Be it Artists, writers, freethinkers, designers, oh, the films baby! That was the area where making good film died, at least for Hollywood. Another person from that time was William S. Burroughs. I have not read his books yet, but I have heard he was an acid bad ASS writer and influenced so many people. Naked Lunch is a good place to start
Not my cup of tea. I like BASS, Rhythm, Horns and syncopation. You know, creative stuff. The melanated ear is a far more sophisticated acoustic collector.
Or If you like Rock then hear it the way Hendrix did. Here's Bootsy Collins doing Hendrix. If 6 was 9, becasue a copy of you, just won't do.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Meninarmer says: ''I like BASS, Rhythm, Horns and syncopation. You know, creative stuff. The melanated ear is a far more sophisticated acoustic collector.''
Well I guess we do agree on something.
But for argumentation purposes the ear has to be melanated to understand what you are talking about; otherwise you will get an argument from those who swear by other types of music.
No offense to the Jimi Hendrix followers but... a brother doing the rock scene! Of course if one is a Woodstock gatherer then, oh well. The only only thing good about Woodstock is David Newman's mellow jazz rendition, Under a WoodStock Moon.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Where the Pathways Meet off the Lanquidity lp is about my favorite. With the headphones on the end segment especially reminds me off seeing the Arkestra live sans the impromptu theatre often at his revues but with the players weaving in and out the audience. I'll never forget the time he had two tuba players dueling. Besides the next to impossible horn charting they were actually wrestling each other while playing!
Sun Ra was discipline to the Nth degree. May he travel his beloved spaceways in his transition.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer:
quote:Originally posted by Arwa:
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Led Zepplin! Gimme a break. Now I know for sure ya'll a bunch of Albinos. Treble ears...LOL
Not my cup of tea. I like BASS, Rhythm, Horns and syncopation. You know, creative stuff. The melanated ear is a far more sophisticated acoustic collector.
posted
Jimi was not a brother doing the rock scene. Jimi was doing his own thing. Had he not been spirited away to England he'd've never got the fame and aclaim he so well deserved because in the USA the blacks he played with used to pull his amp cord and **** because their ears were too melaninated (as you say) to appreciate anything outside their stuck up boundaries.
Jimi blew away all the rock guitarist. Townsend, Clapton, and all of them lived in fear of Jimi. You see, his Blues roots and R&B experience put him in a place miles ahead of them, though Clapton and Page were white Bluesmen.
Page (Led Zeppelin) ripped off Howlin' Wolf with no credit given. Lemon and When the Levee Breaks are straight up Howlin' Wolf. So really, you need to be careful thinking Rock isn't a black music creation regardless that it quickly became a white thing as it evolved from Rock and Roll into Rock. And besides Jimi, Sly, Ritchie, and Carlos were three other very good Woodstock things. BTW Sun Ra hung out quite a bit in the actual town of Woodstock, an artist haven till this day.
We love music without apology and will not be pigeon holed in your constraints when there's a whole wide world of aural experience out there. Are you experienced? Are you? Are you? Or are you scared your measly little world won't let you go?
[All underscored are hyperlinks to music]
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Meninarmer says: ''I like BASS, Rhythm, Horns and syncopation. You know, creative stuff. The melanated ear is a far more sophisticated acoustic collector.''
Well I guess we do agree on something.
But for argumentation purposes the ear has to be melanated to understand what you are talking about; otherwise you will get an argument from those who swear by other types of music.
No offense to the Jimi Hendrix followers but... a brother doing the rock scene! Of course if one is a Woodstock gatherer then, oh well. The only only thing good about Woodstock is David Newman's mellow jazz rendition, Under a WoodStock Moon.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Meninarmer says: ''I like BASS, Rhythm, Horns and syncopation. You know, creative stuff. The melanated ear is a far more sophisticated acoustic collector.''
Well I guess we do agree on something.
But for argumentation purposes the ear has to be melanated to understand what you are talking about; otherwise you will get an argument from those who swear by other types of music.
No offense to the Jimi Hendrix followers but... a brother doing the rock scene! Of course if one is a Woodstock gatherer then, oh well. The only only thing good about Woodstock is David Newman's mellow jazz rendition, Under a WoodStock Moon.
For brothers, Rock is one of those flavors you start out with in the beginning as you sample and expand your ear. Don't forget Jimi played for the Isley Brothers and taught Ernie Isley how to play.
Even Jimi was moving away from Rock before he died. The Band of Gypsys and Voodoo Child albums showing his moving towards blues/Jazz/R&B. Before his death he had been practicing in New York with Miles Davis and planning to record a Bitches Brew type electric Jazz album with Miles. Recording was supposed to start the day following his death. Too bad it never happened. Could have been a brand new art form.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Jimi was not a brother doing the rock scene. Jimi was doing his own thing. Had he not been spirited away to England he'd've never got the fame and aclaim he so well deserved because in the USA the blacks he played with used to pull his amp cord and **** because their ears were too melaninated (as you say) to appreciate anything outside their stuck up boundaries.
Jimi blew away all the rock guitarist. Townsend, Clapton, and all of them lived in fear of Jimi. You see, his Blues roots and R&B experience put him in a place miles ahead of them, though Clapton and Page were white Bluesmen.
Page (Led Zeppelin) ripped off Howlin' Wolf with no credit given. Lemon and When the Levee Breaks are straight up Howlin' Wolf. So really, you need to be careful thinking Rock isn't a black music creation regardless that it quickly became a white thing as it evolved from Rock and Roll into Rock. And besides Jimi, Sly, Ritchie, and Carlos were three other very good Woodstock things. BTW Sun Ra hung out quite a bit in the actual town of Woodstock, an artist haven till this day.
We love music without apology and will not be pigeon holed in your constraints when there's a whole wide world of aural experience out there. Are you experienced? Are you? Are you? Or are you scared your measly little world won't let you go?
[All underscored are hyperlinks to music]
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Meninarmer says: ''I like BASS, Rhythm, Horns and syncopation. You know, creative stuff. The melanated ear is a far more sophisticated acoustic collector.''
Well I guess we do agree on something.
But for argumentation purposes the ear has to be melanated to understand what you are talking about; otherwise you will get an argument from those who swear by other types of music.
No offense to the Jimi Hendrix followers but... a brother doing the rock scene! Of course if one is a Woodstock gatherer then, oh well. The only only thing good about Woodstock is David Newman's mellow jazz rendition, Under a WoodStock Moon.
LOL, Clapton and Page weren't blues men. They were imitating blues men and IMHO were never worthy of any real claim to originality.
West Montgomery, Huddie (Leadbelly) Leadbetter, Chuck Berry, Cab Callaway, T-Bone Walker, Sly Stone, and a host of others who died broke, were the real innovators.
Hendrix was an original, and where I grew up in the city, many black people were into Jimi. They just weren't into the two lame white sidemen he had to keep to cross over into the White Rock scene. Once he ditched them and brought in Buddy Miles his music was much more melaninated. It would have been even better had he a Bootsy Collins, Marcus Miller or Verdine White accompanying him on Bass.
Black Rock is usually a progression to a higher form. It starts off unstructured and sort of a free for all. Prince is a good example. Miles Davis said that Prince was one of the true modern musical geniuses of our time.
Listen to George Clinton's old group, Funkedelics. They began as a black rock group with a mostly white post hippy following. Than they progressed and became, Parliment-Funkedelic with the deep melaninated Bass line present in all of today's music. Than they added Maceo and the horny horns adding the Jazz fusion on top of the James Brown guitar riffs, the funkadelic rock chords, and R&B and African percussions with R&B vocals; resulting in a brand new art form, FUNK.
If there were no FUNK, there would be no disco, RAP, and Crunk. No Madonna or Brittany.
Melanation created Gospel, Blues, Rock, Jazz, R&B, Funk, Rap. All the music the world loves. The physics of the role of melanin in the ear is real science.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
alTakruri says: ''We love music without apology and will not be pigeon holed in your constraints when there's a whole wide world of aural experience out there.''
I knew I was asking for it when I said what I did.
The only thing I knew about Hendrix was back in the early to middle 70s (I think) when a lot of the hippie white boys were clinging to him. I didn't even realize he was black until a short while later. And to be honest the first time I heard him play wasn't a pleasing experience. I guess I shouldn't be too harsh because I haven't heard anywhere near enough of his music to make a decision based solely on his rock stuff. I grew up on Doowop, Rhythm & Blues, Blues and much later on, Jazz. That said I have heard many brothers much later say Hendrix was it. Well if you're a rock fan...
As for the 'pidgeonholing' it sure looks like I intended it to be that way. Actually it isn't that way because my tastes also run near and far with music; all the way into classical music; not all of it, just the kind that sets a contemplative experience.
I love jazz but I'm not a purist. Some jazz reminds me of rock, or maybe hard rock (not sure), where they're all over the instrument, running to and fro. Talent is displayed here but not pleasing to the melinated ear. At least not to mine.
''So really, you need to be careful thinking Rock isn't a black music creation regardless that it quickly became a white thing as it evolved from Rock and Roll into Rock.''
This is interesting because I thought it was the guys with the long blonde stringy hair that ushered this type music on the scene. I don't know if this is true but I've heard country music had its origins from the blues. And I don't know if this is true but I heard a white guy on televison a while back saying blues music evolved from country. Any truth to that? Anybody? Ain't no thang with me because someone has the truth... don't they.
''Or are you scared your measly little world won't let you go?''
Sced of that.
By the way, that Fela Kuti ? has the right stuff. At least the few times I heard him recently on this website with links. I first heard him blow back in the early 80s I believe. The cut was nearly 15 minutes or more, long. It was a political tune, something along the lines about the African man has no name, or something to that effect. The name of the LP was a really long one. Anyone hear know about it?
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Maggot Brain was an interesting cut. It had something you could fasten your ear to... but in a non-melinated way.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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I cain't come home to that. If anything it looks like the organist in the background was trying to cut loose, or at least had flashbacks to a time with another group, probably jazzers, where he could have stretched out on his instrument, but was restrained by the repetitiveness of the beat brought about by the rock group itself; not that rockers stretch out on anything by the way. Kind of like all dressed up with no place to go.
That chick probably dates the brother in the Hootie and the Blowfish group. Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Don't be so hard on me. I tried to see what it was about, even many years ago and today. It ain't my stuff. It yours, not mine. So the issue comes down to what I like and you like. I'm critical of the music, not because you like it.
By the way I never did see what all the hoopla was about Miles back in the day. I've heard trumpet players wail as contemporaries of Miles but I didn't see Miles as being one of them. Regrettably he took a lot of heat from his fellow artists for jumping ship with Bitches Brew. I believe it was a good move initially because, as you know, Jazz artists aren't big money winners, in a relative sense. I've long said in order to be more succcessful an artist needs crossover appeal. Taking heat from a colleague is secondary when you can march to the bank because of that crossover appeal.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Don't be so hard on me. I tried to see what it was about, even many years ago and today. It ain't my stuff. It yours, not mine. So the issue comes down to what I like and you like. I'm critical of the music, not because you like it.
By the way I never did see what all the hoopla was about Miles back in the day. I've heard trumpet players wail as contemporaries of Miles but I didn't see Miles as being one of them. Regrettably he took a lot of heat from his fellow artists for jumping ship with Bitches Brew. I believe it was a good move initially because, as you know, Jazz artists aren't big money winners, in a relative sense. I've long said in order to be more successful an artist needs crossover appeal. Taking heat from a colleague is secondary when you can march to the bank because of that crossover appeal.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Don't be so hard on me. I tried to see what it was about, even many years ago and today. It ain't my stuff. It yours, not mine. So the issue comes down to what I like and you like. I'm critical of the music, not because you like it.
By the way I never did see what all the hoopla was about Miles back in the day. I've heard trumpet players wail as contemporaries of Miles but I didn't see Miles as being one of them. Regrettably he took a lot of heat from his fellow artists for jumping ship with Bitches Brew. I believe it was a good move initially because, as you know, Jazz artists aren't big money winners, in a relative sense. I've long said in order to be more successful an artist needs crossover appeal. Taking heat from a colleague is secondary when you can march to the bank because of that crossover appeal.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Ok, we getcha now alTakruri, but how in the heck do November posts get posted AFTER December posts?: if someone has to accept posts when the posts switch is turned on, whey not just accept the one?: They must not be reading them.
This isn't meant as a criticism, just an opinion: we need a more available/committed mod.
Damn, and over the past few years I've met a few people on and offline who'd probably have been willing to do the job, but didn't offer (one of them was an trucker i met at a Boarders into similar reading material too). Didn't see the mod thread until last year, and didn't keep track of the people. Could've gave them if anyone an email or somethin! Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Donald Byrd was the one who successfully took it to the public ear even though he played with the heavies (Blakey, Roach, Coltrane, Dolphy). He's the proof you can know your music theory, be a virtuoso, stay true to 'the music' yet and still be not only palateable to the public but have them dancing as well and take home money to bank after work.
By the way I never did see what all the hoopla was about Miles back in the day. I've heard trumpet players wail as contemporaries of Miles but I didn't see Miles as being one of them. Regrettably he took a lot of heat from his fellow artists for jumping ship with Bitches Brew. I believe it was a good move initially because, as you know, Jazz artists aren't big money winners, in a relative sense. I've long said in order to be more succcessful an artist needs crossover appeal. Taking heat from a colleague is secondary when you can march to the bank because of that crossover appeal.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:By the way I never did see what all the hoopla was about Miles back in the day. I've heard trumpet players wail as contemporaries of Miles but I didn't see Miles as being one of them
^ Trumpet play is not just wailing. Anyone can 'wail'.
Sometimes people say the same thing about Hendrix. ie - other people can play just as fast and just as loud, with just as many tricks. and of course - other people can smash and or burn their guitar too.
But music is art, and art requires soul.
Miles was not the virtuoso of trumpet that Dizzy was.... but he was better at making 'music'.
From Kind of Blue, to Bitches Brew, you either hear the genuis in his music, or you don't. Again, same with Hendrix. You can't really 'explain' musical genuis to someone who can't hear it.
posted
Too bad it's not possible to get a hold of some of Huddie Leadbetter's music playing his 12 string guitar. Huddie wrote so many songs that have been repackaged and stolen over the decades. Songs like Midnight Special, Goodnight Irene, Fannie Hill, and Black Betty. Google Leadbetter and a wealth of white rock bands stealing his flavor spring up. Ole Wolfman Jack ripped him off with his 70s show, The Midnight Special.
They yanked the all black movie, The Legend Of Huddie "Leadbelly" Leadbetter starring Roger Mosley with all black cast after just 2 weeks at the theaters. It was a classic, directed by Gordon Parks. This movie and Stormy Weather are probably the best all black movies I have ever seen.
Probably due to his writing all those songs while being railroaded in jail on chain gangs in the south while whites stole all his songs. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074781/Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: [QB] Donald Byrd was the one who successfully took it to the public ear even though he played with the heavies (Blakey, Roach, Coltrane, Dolphy). He's the proof you can know your music theory, be a virtuoso, stay true to 'the music' yet and still be not only palateable to the public but have them dancing as well and take home money to bank after work.
Byrd was no exception in this area. Many of the great Jazz artist were very well schooled in music theory, since Jazz is mostly inspired by Classical. Great composers like Hubert Laws, Pharaoh Sanders, Oscar Peterson, Sun Ra, Charley Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Miles, Nina Simon, and the great Duke Ellington were all heavy theorists and knew their craft through and through. They had to. They mainly made their money touring the black clubs in black communities like the Autobon ballroom in NY and the Famous ballroom in Baltimore. These houses demanded excellence, as well as did The Apollo. Jimi even played the Apollo with the Isley brothers and alone. The crowd loved him. I remember every time I went to the Apollo, James Brown would be sitting in the front row. I've seen everyone from Jimi Hendrix to the Ohio Player to Parliment to Weather Report to Santana and Michael Jackson there.
In spite of being a New Yorker, Lenny Kravitz has never played the Apollo. If he had, He would have been booed off the stage.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Miles was trained at Juliard, but most Jazz greats were neither classically trained nor inspired.
Jazz is rooted in Blues, which is in turn rooted in African music.
Most of the founders of Jazz - from Armstrong and earlier had heard little [or no] classical music.
I know this first hand, but seeing your are a white boy I understand your confusion.
This can be easily corrected if you but bother to read the autobiographies of Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Sun Ra or Charley Parker. You sound if you believe Jazz musicians only played in juke joints and did not have access to records.
Of course Jazz has deep roots in previous BLACK art forms starting with GOSPEL. For whites, the beginning of black music is always Blues. For blacks the beginning and end is Gospel.
As a progression, Jazz drew heavily upon Classical music also. They all were huge fans of Classical music. Their goal was to create an art that would stand the test of time, yet be eccentrically based in music theory.
Likewise, many Classical composers are great fans of Jazz.
An example showing the Gospel base of Jazz married with classical chord structures of Classical.
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