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Egmond – I had to start a new thread because the trolls had yours too filled with nonsense. I also thought that it might be informative to do a little picture chronology.
In the beginning – the Khoisan Grimaldi (the first modern man type human) entered Europe through the straits of Gibraltar at about 45,000 B.C. The human-like Cro-Magnon man, would follow 10,000 years later. (the Neanderthals were already there).
He then spread out across Europe and into Asia as far as Mal’ta Siberia – Ya, Black people in Siberia. Thousands of years later, the Black Shang of China will also trek north to cross the Bering straits and enter the Americas, where they will settle in Mexico and be known as the Olmec.
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In Anatolia (now known as Turkey) the beginnings of their civilizations are very old. The site of Gobekli Tepe is dated at 11,500 B.C. Gobekli Tepe is also currently considered the oldest known shrine or temple complex in the world, and the planet's oldest known example of monumental architecture.
On the Mediterranean Island of Crete, they built a great civilization that is known as the Minoan, the age of this civilization is unknown, maybe 8,000 B.C. At about 1,600 B.C. the Cretans created the first civilization in Greece when they built (with the help of Egypt) the great city of Mycenae, which was described as "broad-streeted and golden". Mycenae became the capital of a civilization that encompassed most of the Greek mainland and the Aegean Islands.
A Minoan cup-bearer
In Italy they also built a great civilization, we know it as the Etruscan. The age of this civilization is also unknown, maybe 4,000 B.C.
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^^This is definitely a thread for you Mike. Now I'll let your thread wither and die as it completely deserves.
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On the Mediterranean Islands known as the Cyclades, and also on the Island of Malta they also created civilizations.
They also created civilizations in France, Belgium, Spain, and Britain; but unfortunately Whites were very thorough in destroying all evidence of their existence.
Speaking of the evil Whites, at about 1,200 – 1,500 B.C. they start invading Europe from their homelands in central Asia. Sometime around 1,100 B.C, the presence of these newcomers has caused enough upheaval in the Mediterranean Islands and Southern Europe; so as to cause the original Black inhabitants to band together and leave. This confederation of the people of the Mediterranean countries, became known as "The Sea People". Among this group called "The Sea People" were the following.
The Peleset and Tjeker (Minoans) of Crete, they would later be known as the “Philistines” after they had settled in Southern Canaan. Over time, this area became known by a form of their name “Palestine”. The Lukka who may have come from the Lycian region of Anatolia, The Ekwesh and Denen seem to be identified with the original (Black) Greeks, The Shardana (Sherden) who may be associated with Sardinia, The Teresh (Tursha or Tyrshenoi), the Tyrrhenians - the Greek name for the Etruscans, and The Shekelesh (Sicilians?). The fate of those that stayed behind, would of course be absorption.
Unfortunately the land that the Sea people wanted to relocate to was Egypt; Ramesess III kicked their butts and forced them to go elsewhere.
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For those Blacks still in Europe, life was undoubtedly hard and short. But over time, absorption began to take hold and there appears to have been an equilibrium achieved as Blacks began to loose their Black identity and moved ever closer to becoming White.
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But the path is never smooth, then as now, White Women (and men) developed a fondness for Black manhood. And the troubles generated by this, have persisted even unto today.
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I wonder if anyone noted the similarities in column layout, between the temple at Gobekli Tepe in Anatolia, and the temple at Stone Henge in Britain. (It is known that the Minoans carried on trade with the Blacks of Britain, as did the Black Phoenicians thousands of years later.)
However, what is most interesting about a comparison of the two structures; is that the columns at Gobekli Tepe, though smaller, are more architecturally complicated than the columns at Stone Henge, which weren’t built until about 2,500 B.C. (about 9,000 years later).
I guess you know, Mike, that the fellows who discovered and excavated Gobekli Tepe did note the exact point you make. The hypothesized that Stone Henge was the result of a demic movement of people from there to Stone Henge constructing the same type of monumental structures after arriving. You're right on target. (Actually, you find this same structure among the Olmec in Vera Cruz)
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Mike. You have given a pictorial tour of the African presence in Europe from earliest times. I’d like to add to that.
[ I ] STORY OF AFRICAN PRESENCE IN EUROPE STARTS 1.8 MILLION YEARS AGO
The story for the African presence in Europe begins in Dmansi, Georgia, once a part of the USSR, 1.8 million years ago. Check the journal Science for the dates below:
[II] USE OF SHELLS AND BEGINNING OF SYMBOLIC THINKING – THE EUROPEAN SITUATION
Shells first found in Africa 75,000 years ago and in France 35,000 years ago. This shows the use of symbolic thinking scientists claim. Actually, eight years ago and earlier, they used to say symbolic thinking and thus the possibility for language existed since about 50,000 years ago in Europe. But, when they found beads in Africa from 75,000 years ago, these discussions suddenly disappeared.
[III] JEWELRY FROM 25,000 YEARS AGO IN UKRAINE. AFRICANS HAVE KEPT SAME TRADITIONS FROM THEN UNTIL TODAY
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Above, it was mentioned that the original Black people of Europe and the Mediterranean Islands (called the Sea People) were fleeing from the invading Whites in Europe. Egypt was their preferred destination, but Pharaoh Ramesses III would have none of it. At Pharaoh Ramesses III mortuary Temple at Medinet Habu, he details his account of the battle, or battles, with the Sea People.
The Inscriptions of Medinet Habu By Michele MacLaren, Liam McManus, and Megaera Lorenz
When studying the Sea Peoples, scholars turn to one of the most detailed and well known texts concerning the Sea Peoples, the inscriptions from Medinet Habu.
Medinet Habu is a mortuary temple that was constructed for Ramesess III at Thebes, in Upper Egypt. The temple decoration consists of a series of reliefs and texts telling of the many exploits of the king, from his campaign against the Libyans to, most importantly, his war against the Sea Peoples.
The texts and reliefs that deal with the Sea Peoples date to year eight of Ramesess III’s reign, approximately 1190 BCE. The significance of these texts is that they provide an account of Egypt’s campaign against the “coalition of the sea” from an Egyptian point of view. In the inscriptions, Ramesses alludes to the threat the Sea Peoples posed, as can be seen in this portion of text: …the foreign countries made a conspiracy in their islands. All at once the lands were removed and scattered in the fray. No land could stand before their arms from Hatti, Kode, Carchemish, Artawa, and Alashiya on being cut off [at one time]. A camp was [set up] in one place in Amor. They desolated its people and its land was like that which has never come into being. (Medinet Habu, Year 8 inscription.) The inscriptions go on to specify the groups which were involved in the "confederation": Peleset, Tjeker, Shekelesh, Denyen, and Weshesh.
Although Ramesses III boasts of his defeat of the Sea Peoples' coalition on land and sea, the portion of text quoted above gives the impression that the Egyptians were facing a great and strong military presence. However, some scholars believe that the battles described at Medinet Habu were not one coherent event, but were actually small skirmishes between the Sea Peoples and the Egyptians at different intervals that were conflated in Ramesses' account into two grandiose battles. Barbara Cifola (1988: 275-306) concluded that, due to the vague manner in which the northern enemies were described, they could not possibly represent one force, and were probably never joined into a clearly defined confederation (see also O’conner 2000: 94). The Medinet Habu inscriptions are also significant for their artistic depictions of the Sea Peoples. These provide valuable information about the appearance and accoutrements of the various groups, and can lend clues towards deciphering their ethnic backgrounds (Redford 1992: 251).
From the textual evidence on the temple walls, it appears that the Peleset and the Tjeker made up the majority of the Sea Peoples involved in the year 8 invasion. In the artistic depictions, both types are depicted wearing a fillet, from which protrudes a floppy plume and a protective piece down the nape of the neck. Their armament included long swords, spears and circular shields, and they are occasionally shown wearing body armor. Other groups, such as the Shekelesh and Teresh, are shown wearing cloth headdresses and a medallion upon their breasts. The weaponry that they carried consisted of two spears and a simple round shield. The Shardana soldiers are most obviously armored in the artistic depictions, due to the thick horned helmets that adorn their heads (Redford 1992: 252).
The land battle and sea battle scenes provide a wealth of information on the military styles of the Sea Peoples. The reliefs depicting the land battle show Egyptian troops, chariots and auxiliaries fighting the enemy, who also used chariots, very similar in design to Egyptian chariots. Although the chariots used by the Sea Peoples are very similar to those used by the Egyptians, both being pulled by two horses and using wheels with six spokes, the Sea Peoples had three soldiers per chariot, whereas the Egyptians only had one, or occasionally two. The land battle scenes also give the observer some sense of the Sea Peoples’ military organization. According to the artistic representations, the Philistine warriors were each armed with a pair of long spears, and their infantry was divided into small groups consisting of four men each. Three of those men carried long, straight swords and spears, while the fourth man only carried a sword. The relief depicting the land battle is a massive jumble of figures and very chaotic in appearance, but this was probably a stylistic convention employed by the Egyptians to convey a sense of chaos. Other evidence suggests that the Sea Peoples had a high level of organization and military strategy (O’Conner 2000: 95).
A striking feature of the land battle scene is the imagery of ox-pulled carts carrying women and children in the midst of a battle. These carts seem to represent a people on the move (Sandars 1985: 120). The other famous relief at Medinet Habu regarding the Sea Peoples is of the sea battle. This scene is also shown in a disorganized mass, but as was mentioned earlier, was meant to represent chaos, again contradicting the Egyptians’ descriptions of the military success and organization of the Sea Peoples. The sea battle scene is valuable for its depictions of the Sea Peoples' ships and their armaments. The Egyptians and the Sea Peoples both used sails as their main means of naval locomotion. However, interestingly, the Sea Peoples' ships appear to have no oars, which could indicate new navigation techniques (Dothan 1982: 7). Another interesting feature of the Sea Peoples' ships is that all the prows are carved in the shape of bird heads, which has caused many scholars to speculate an Aegean origin for these groups. Wachsmann (2000) speculates that the sea battle relief shows the battle in progression, from beginning to end.
Medinet Habu still remains the most important source for understanding the Sea Peoples, their possible origins, and their impact on the Mediterranean world. To this day, no other source has been discovered that provides as detailed an account of these groups, and this mortuary temple still provides the only absolute date for the Sea Peoples.
Texts from the Medinet Habu Temple with Reference to the Sea Peoples
The following texts are adapted from the translation by James Henry Breasted (2001). Breasted's original translation of the Medinet Habu texts, with commentary, can be found on pp. 3-85 in Breasted, J. H. 2001/1906. Ancient Records of Egypt vol. 4. Chicago: University of Illinois Press.
Excerpt from Ramesses III's speech about the war against the Sea Peoples, year 8 (Breasted 2001: 37-39: sections 64-66):
The countries -- --, the [Northerners] in their isles were disturbed, taken away in the [fray] -- at one time. Not one stood before their hands, from Kheta, Kode, Carchemish, Arvad, Alashia, they were wasted. {The}y {[set up]} a camp in one place in Amor. They desolated his people and his land like that which is not. They came with fire prepared before them, forward to Egypt. Their main support was Peleset, Tjekker, Shekelesh, Denyen, and Weshesh. (These) lands were united, and they laid their hands upon the land as far as the Circle of the Earth. Their hearts were confident, full of their plans.
Now, it happened through this god, the lord of gods, that I was prepared and armed to [trap] them like wild fowl. He furnished my strength and caused my plans to prosper. I went forth, directing these marvelous things. I equipped my frontier in Zahi, prepared before them. The chiefs, the captains of infantry, the nobles, I caused to equip the river-mouths [1], like a strong wall, with warships, galleys, and barges, [--]. They were manned [completely] from bow to stern with valiant warriors bearing their arms, soldiers of all the choicest of Egypt, being like lions roaring upon the mountain-tops. The charioteers were warriors [-- --], and all good officers, ready of hand. Their horses were quivering in their every limb, ready to crush the countries under their feet. I was the valiant Montu, stationed before them, that they might behold the hand-to-hand fighting of my arms. I, king Ramses III, was made a far-striding hero, conscious of his might, valiant to lead his army in the day of battle.
Those who reached my boundary, their seed is not; their heart and their soul are finished forever and ever. As for those who had assembled before them on the sea, the full flame was in their front, before the river-mouths, and a wall of metal upon the shore surrounded them. They were dragged, overturned, and laid low upon the beach; slain and made heaps from stern to bow of their galleys, while all their things were cast upon the water. (Thus) I turned back the waters to remember Egypt; when they mention my name in their land, may it consume them, while I sit upon the throne of Harakhte, and the serpent-diadem is fixed upon my head, like Re. I permit not the countries to see the boundaries of Egypt to [--] [among] them. As for the Nine Bows, I have taken away their land and their boundaries; they are added to mine. Their chiefs and their people (come) to me with praise. I carried out the plans of the All-Lord, the august, divine father, lord of the gods.
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Marc - The mobility of the ancient people always amazes me. But on the issue of the strange disparity between the stone works at Stone Henge and those at Gobekli Tepe, with the older works being better. I also noticed that the incising work on the stones at Stone Henge were also inferior when compared with Gobekli Tepe. It has been said that the current inhabitation of Britain began around 12,000 B.C. So does this mean that the ancient people who moved to Britain, left the south just before some artistic or technological breakthrough?
Note; for those confused by the statement "current inhabitation of Britain began around 12,000 B.C." This relates to Black people only. The White presence in Britain is believed to have begun with the White Celts at about 500 B.C. The White Celts were later replaced by the Anglo-Saxons at about 450 A.D.
Note should also be made, that just as with the term "Greek" White people have purposefully blended the terms to cause confusion, and to hide their lie of European ancestry. So in using the terms “Celt” and “Greek”, completely different people could be referenced, depending on the timeframe.
As an example; If the original Black people of Greece were called Greeks, then how can the White invaders, who called themselves "Hellenes" also be called Greeks? Likewise with the Celts, If the original Black people of Northern Italy, France, Belgium, Spain and Britain (called Gauls by the Romans) are called Celts, then how can the White invaders also be called Celts? There is a simple answer - to cause confusion!
STONE HENGE
Grafitti on the sarsen stones. Below are ancient carvings of a dagger and an axe
Yeah, Mike. Their mobility was amazing. Monuments like those found in Gobekli Tepe are found all around much of the pre-Bronze-Age world.
Now, you have the relief of the tiger above. What was speculated to have been found in Gobekli Tepe while actually a single feline was thought to have been one of a pair.
And, going back to Egyptian cosmogony, the paired feline came to represent the heavens and the earth. It may be that paired feline (and the oldest possibly known occurrence of these dates to 10,000 BC and Gobekli Tepe) represents ancient shorthand for the heavens and the earth.
In Mesopotamia, En-Ki, the chief god and goddess, actually together (Enki) meant our modern "Cosmos." From Mesopotamia came our bible. The black niggers from back then are the framers of our view on creation both in religion and, it can be argued, largely also science today (meaning that from nothing came something; something = the universe. Modern astrophysics).
Here is a page I did on that related to your pictures of the feline: in this case, paired.
PS - you have the sculpture of the seated Anatolian mother goddess above with her big, round head. You should know that she was found without a head and Mellaart had one made for her (in a white image; though the Anatolians were Africans Mellaart's dug-up skulls and bones showed).
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-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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Marc - Be careful what you say, or you will have the "Egypt was first" crowd jumping down our throats. I don't have a problem with Mellaart, whatever he did or didn't do, the statue is still pretty consistent in look with others. i.e. short hair, slightly pointed head. The nose is a bit small, but you have to expect some effort to make them appear White - after all, the work was done by white people FOR White people. But bottom line, I don't think that it is significantly different from this one.
You're right, Mike. By the way. That statuette you're showing came about through the excavation work of Mellaart:
James Mellaart, Excavations at Hacilar vol. 1, (British Institute of Archeology, Edinburgh University Press, Edinburgh, 1970).
James Mellaart, Excavations at Hacilar vol. 2, (British Institute of Archeology, Edinburgh University Press, Edinburgh, 1970).
That one you show belongs to a group of many dozens in various states of repair. They give a huge time span for that one (8,500 - 5,500 BC). I think it was closer to the level 8 work they excavated from about 5600 BC to 4800 BC.
That theme of entertwined lovers shows up a number of times in pre-Bronze Age arts and if I'm not mistaken, it appears in that age of stuff from pre-Achaeminid Persia. I have a copy of it somewhere.
I enjoy this work you put up here about family. We've been around a long time and launched the civilizations of the world.
Three cheers for us.
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Here are the Phillistines from the walls of Ramses' temple at Medinet Habu. Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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alTakruri - Please compare the picture in question, with the text from Medinet Habu Temple above.
Quote: "From the textual evidence on the temple walls, it appears that the Peleset and the Tjeker made up the majority of the Sea Peoples involved in the year 8 invasion. In the artistic depictions, both types are depicted wearing a fillet, from which protrudes a floppy plume and a protective piece down the nape of the neck." Hope that helps.
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Hey Marc, three cheers for you. You seem to really be getting into it, that's great. If you don't mind saying; so-far which peoples do you like best?Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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These are nothing but Egyptians in a festival day procession. You can see your four falsely mislabeled 'Tjeker' in the center to the left in the above image.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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i see marc has added atila the hun, to charlemagne and herodotus,,, his ever growing and increasingly silly collection of 'afrikans'. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: ^ good educating AlTakruri.
i see marc has added atila the hun, to charlemagne and herodotus,,, his ever growing and increasingly silly collection of 'afrikans'.
Marc has coined a new term, a pseudo-scientific way of making bogus outrageous claims, they're "phenotypic" Africans, African by phenotype... Lmaoooooo
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alTakruri - I see that you have brought the resident trolls with you - thank you very much.
The issue seems to be whether I would prefer to believe the identification made by Michele MacLaren, Liam McManus, and Megaera Lorenz in their translation of The Inscriptions of Medinet Habu, or you and the poster on Flicker that you cite.
I am very sorry, but I choose the researchers. BTW - the picture is not from a battle scene, fighting was not the only occasion for intercourse between Egyptians and the Tjeker. But the costume is as described in the battle scene, except for two plumes instead of one.
You might also note that those that you claim to be the Tjeker, are wearing what appears to be helmets with a circle of feathers around the edges. But whatever it is, it is in do way, similar to what is described for Tjeker headgear.
But be that as it may, you have your opinion and I have mine, please leave it there. I would prefer not to give trolls further opportunity to add nonsense to the thread.
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Hey, you try to educate someone who can do little more than misconstrue whatever source at hand to fit his misconceived notions. Of course, he has no source that says those Egyptians are Tjeker. Nor can he read the mdw ntjr which allows the capable researcher to know precisely what the scene entails, which is why he presented an out of context bust shot sans mdw ntjr in the hope of passing off his big lie without detection to those even less familiar with the art than himself. This isn't the first time he posted his 'Tjeker' but whatever readership still left from our old ES AE&E forum deserves facts not what will make them the butt of ridicule should they rely on a tyro's ignorance as factual.
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
quote:But be that as it may, you have your opinion and I have mine, please leave it there
^ His is based on reading the mdw ntr.
Yours is based on wishful thinking.
And yes, it can be left at that.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Quit with your lies. You can't show where I identify Tjeker. Go and read what I called the people I posted. http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=000844#000015 And that's fact not opinion. I have facts anyone can check. You post opinion that even a surface investigation can with the greatest of ease prove untenable.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ... those that you claim to be the Tjeker, are wearing what appears to be helmets with a circle of feathers around the edges.
... you have your opinion and I have mine, please leave it there
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You posted a quote that Peleset and Tjeker were the numerical base of one set of Sea People (which I have no disagreement with) and you posted the images below labeling them as Sea People. So what are they Peleset, Tjeker, Shekelesh, Denyen, or Weshesh?
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
===== The Inscriptions of Medinet Habu By Michele MacLaren, Liam McManus, and Megaera Lorenz
. . . .
The inscriptions go on to specify the groups which were involved in the "confederation": Peleset, Tjeker, Shekelesh, Denyen, and Weshesh.
. . . .
From the textual evidence on the temple walls, it appears that the Peleset and the Tjeker made up the majority of the Sea Peoples involved in the year 8 invasion. In the artistic depictions, both types are depicted wearing a fillet, from which protrudes a floppy plume and a protective piece down the nape of the neck. Their armament included long swords, spears and circular shields, and they are occasionally shown wearing body armor.
Other groups, such as the Shekelesh and Teresh, are shown wearing cloth headdresses and a medallion upon their breasts. The weaponry that they carried consisted of two spears and a simple round shield.
The Shardana soldiers are most obviously armored in the artistic depictions, due to the thick horned helmets that adorn their heads (Redford 1992: 252).
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As documented above; the original Black inhabitants of Europe and the Mediterranean Islands, were fleeing the White invaders from central Asia. these fleeing Black people are known collectively as "The Sea People". Egypt is the place that they would like to relocate to; But Pharaoh Ramesses III defeats them in battle, and turns them away.
But the Minoans of Crete (called the Tjeker by the Egyptians), later known to us as the “Philistines”, are allowed to settle in Southern Canaan. Whether this is out of sympathy: (remember the Egyptians and Minoans had a long and friendly relationship together: they built the Greek city of "Mycenae" 500 years earlier together). Or perhaps they just couldn't stop them from settling in Canaan.
Whichever the case my be; The Sea peoples' defeat prevented them from conquering Egypt itself, but it left the Egyptians incapable of defending their possessions in the East, which were colonized by the Philistines, Sidonites and others. The effects of the weakening of Egyptian power are described in the Wenamen papyrus. In this account, Local kings, such as the king of Dor, showed quite open contempt for the ambassador of the Pharaoh.
According to this possibly ficticious account, at the beginning of the 11th century B.C, during the reign of Ramses XI, Wenamen, a priest of the Amen temple at Karnak, sailed in a Phoenician ship to Gebal (Byblos) in order to buy timber for the construction of a solar ship. He carried with him a letter of introduction to Zekharbaal, king of Gebal, a statue of the god Amen and some valuables: One golden vessel weighing five deben (about 450 grams), four silver jugs weighing twenty deben and a purse containing eleven deben of silver, a total of five deben of gold and 31 deben of silver, enough to buy thousands of cubic metres of wood.
Wenamen's Journey
The Story begins:
Year 5, fourth month of the Summer season, day 16; the day on which Wenamun, the elder of the portal of the estate of Amun, lord of the Thrones of the Two Lands, set forth to fetch the timber for the great noble bark of Amen-Re', King of the Gods, which is upon the river and is called Amen-user-her. On the day of my arrival at Tanis, the place where Nesbanebded and Tentamun are, I gave them the dispatches of Amen-Re', King of the Gods. They caused them to be read before them and they said: 'We will surely do as Amen-Re', King of the Gods, our lord has said.' I stayed until the fourth month of the Summer season in Tanis. And Nesbanebded and Tentamun sent me forth with the ship's captain Mengebet, and I went down upon the great sea of Syria in the first month of the Summer season. And I arrived at Dor, a Tjekker-town, and Beder its prince caused to be brought to me 50 loaves, one flagon of wine, and one haunch of an ox. And a man of my ship fled after stealing one vessel of gold worth 5 deben, four jars of silver worth 20 deben, and a bag of silver, 11 deben; total of what he stole, gold 5 deben, silver 31 deben.
And I arose in the morning and went to the place where the prince was and said to him: 'I have been robbed in your harbor. But you are the prince of this land and you are its controller. Search for my money, for indeed the money belongs to Amen-Re', King of the Gods, the lord of the lands, it belongs to Nesbanebded, it belongs to Hrihor my lord and to the other great ones of Egypt; it belongs to you, it belongs to Waret, it belongs to Mekamar, it belongs to Tjikarba'al the prince of Byblos.'
He said to me: 'Are you in earnest or are you inventing? For indeed I know nothing of this tale that you have told me. If it had been a thief belonging to my land who had gone down into your ship and had stolen your money, I would have replaced it for you from my storehouse, until your thief had been found, whoever he may be. But in fact the thief who robbed you, he is yours, he belongs to your ship. Spend a few days here with me, that I may search for him.' I stayed nine days anchored in his harbor, and then I went before him and said to him: 'Look, you have not found my money.'
There follows a much broken passage the gist of which may be guessed to be as follows: Wenamen expresses the wish to depart with some ship's captains about to put to sea, but the prince urges him to refrain, suggesting that he should seize goods belonging to the suspected persons until they had gone to search for the thief. Wenamen, however, prefers to continue his journey and after touching at Tyre leaves that port at daybreak. He is soon at Byblos, where Tjikarba'al is the prince. There he comes across a ship that contains 30 deben of silver, which he annexes saying that the money shall remain with him until those whom he addresses have found the thief.
...They departed, and I celebrated in a tent on the shore of the sea in the harbor of Byblos. And I found a hiding place for Amun-of-the-Road and placed his possessions within it. And the prince of Byblos sent to me saying: 'Remove yourself from my harbor.' And I sent to him saying: 'Where shall I go?...If you can find a ship to carry me, let me be taken back to Egypt.' And I spent twenty-nine days in his harbor and he spent time sending to me daily to say: 'Remove yourself from my harbor.'
Now whilst he was offering to his gods, the god seized a young man of his young men and put him in a frenzy and said to him: 'Bring the god up and bring up the envoy who is carrying him. It is Amun who sent him, it is he who caused him to come.' And the frenzied one was in a frenzy during this night, when I had found a ship with its face set towards Egypt and had loaded all my belongings onto it and was watching for the darkness saying 'When it descends, I will put the god aboard so that no other eye shall see him.'
And the harbor-master came to me saying: 'Wait here until tomorrow, so says the prince.' And I said to him: 'Was it not you who spent time coming to me daily saying 'Remove yourself from my harbor', and have you not said 'Wait here this night' in order to let the ship which I have found depart, and then you will come again and tell me to go?' And he went and told it to the prince. And the prince sent to the captain of the ship saying 'Wait until the morning--so says the prince.'
And when the morning came, he sent and brought me up, while the god was reposing in the tent where he was on the shore of the sea. And I found him seated in his upper chamber with his back against a window, while the waves of the great sea of Syria beat behind his head. And I said to him: 'Amun be merciful(?).' And he said to me: 'How long until today is it since you came from the place where Amun is?' And I said to him: 'Five whole months until now.' And he said to me: 'Supposing you are right, where is the dispatch of Amun which is in your hand, and where is the letter of the First Prophet of Amun which is in your hand?' And I said to him:
'I gave them to Nesbanebded and Tentamun.' Then he was very angry and said to me: 'Well now, dispatch or letter there is none in your hand, but where is the ship of pinewood which Nesbanebded gave you and where is its Syrian crew? Did he not entrust you to this barbarian ship's captain to cause him to kill you and that they should throw you into the sea? From whom then would the god have been sought for, and you too, from whom would you too have been sought for?' So he said to me. But I said to him: 'Is it not an Egyptian ship and an Egyptian crew which carry Nesbanebded? He has no Syrian crews.' And he said to me: 'Are there not twenty vessels here in my harbor which do business with Nesbanebded, and as for that Sidon, that other place by which you passed, are there not fifty more ships there which do business with Waraktir, and which toil to his house?'
I kept silence at that great moment. Then he proceeded to say to me: 'On what commission have you come?' And I said to him: 'I have come in quest of the timber for the great noble bark of Amen-Re', King of the Gods. What your father did and what the father of your father did, you too will do it.' So I said to him. And he said to me: 'They did it in truth. You shall pay me for doing it, and I will do it. Certainly my people performed this commission, but only after Pharaoh had caused to be brought six ships laden with Egyptian goods and they had unloaded them into their storehouses. But you--what have you brought to me myself?' And he caused the daybook rolls of his fathers to be brought and he caused them to be read before me. And they found entered on his roll a thousand deben of silver, things of all sorts. And he said to me:
'If the ruler of Egypt had been the possessor of mine own and I too his servant, he would not have caused silver and gold to be brought when he said 'Perform the commission of Amun'; it was no gratuitous gift that they used to make for my father. And as for me too, I myself, I am not your servant, and I am not the servant of him who sent you either. When I cry aloud to the Lebanon, the heaven opens and the timber lies here on the shore of the sea. Give me the sails that you brought to carry your ships which are to bear your timber to Egypt. Give me the ropes that you have brought to lash together the cedars which I am to fell for you in order to make them for you...which I am to make for the sails of your ships and the yards may be too heavy and may break and you may perish in the midst of the sea. Behold, Amun will give voice in the heaven having placed Sutekh beside himself. True, Amun fitted out all the lands. He fitted them out after having earlier fitted out the land of Egypt whence you have come. And craftsmanship came forth from it reaching to the place where I am. And learning came forth from it reaching to the place where I am. What then are these foolish journeyings which you have been caused to make?'
But I said to him: 'False! No foolish journeyings are these on which I am now engaged. There are no boats on the river which do not belong to Amun. His is the sea, and his the Lebanon about which you say 'It is mine'. It is the growing-place for Amen-user-he the lord of all ships. Truly it was Amen-Re', King of the Gods, who said to Hrihor my master 'Send him', and he caused me to come with this great god. But now see, you have let this great god spend these twenty-nine days moored in you harbor without your knowing. Is he not here, is he not what he was? And you stand chauffeuring over the Lebanon with Amun its lord. As for what you say that the former kings caused silver and gold to be brought, if they had possessed Life and Health, they would not have caused the goods to be brought; it was in place of Life and Health that they caused the goods to be brought to your fathers.
But Amen-Re', the King of Gods, he is the lord of this Life and Health, and was the lord of your fathers. They passed their lifetime offering to Amun, and you too, you at the servant of Amun. If you say 'Yes, I will do it' to Amun, and you complete his commission you will live, will be prosperous, will be in health, and will be good for your entire land and your people. Do not covet ought belonging to Amen-Re', King of the Gods--truly a lion loves his property. Let your scribe be brought to me that I may send him to Nesbanebded and Tentamun, the officers whom Amun has given to the north of his land, and they will cause to be brought until I have gone to the south' and I will cause to be brought to you all your deficit as well.' So I said to him.
And he placed my letter in the hand of his envoy, and put on board the keel, the prow-piece, and the stern-piece, together with four other hewn planks, total 7, and he caused them to be brought to Egypt. And his envoy who had gone to Egypt returned to me in Syria in the first month of the Winter season, Nesbanebded and Tentamun having sent gold, 4 jars; 1 kakmen-vessel; silver, 5 jars; coverlets of royal linen, 10 pieces; fine Upper Egyptian linen, 10 veils; plain mats, 500; ox-hides, 500; ropes, 500; lentils, 20 sacks; fish, 30 baskets. And she sent to me coverlets, fine Upper Egyptian linen, 5 pieces; fine Upper Egyptian linen, 5 veils; lentils, 1 sack, and fish, 5 baskets.
And the prince rejoiced, and he fitted out 300 men and 300 oxen, and he placed superintendents in charge of them to cause them to fell the logs. And they felled them and they lay there during the winter. And in the third month of Summer they dragged them to the shore of the sea. And the prince went forth and stood by them, and he sent to me telling me to come. And when I had been brought into his presence, the shadow of his lotus-fan fell upon me. And Penamun, a butler of his, approached me saying: 'The shadow of Pharaoh your lord has fallen upon you.' And he was angry with him and said 'Leave him alone.'
And I was brought into his presence and he proceeded to say to me: 'Look, the commission which my fathers performed formerly, I having performed it--but you have not done for me yourself what your fathers did for mine. Look, the last of your timber has arrived and is in its place. Do according to my will and come and place it on board, for will they not give it to you? Do not come to look at the terrors of the sea, but if you look at the terrors of the sea, look at my own. Assuredly I have not done to you what was done to the envoys of Kha'emwise when they passed seventeen years in this land and died on the spot.' And he said to his butler: 'Take him and let him see their tomb where they lie.'
But I said to him: 'Do not make me see it. As regards Kha'emwise, those envoys whom he sent to you were men, and he himself was a man. But you have not here one of his envoys when you say 'Go and look at your companions'. Do you not rejoice that you can cause to be made for yourself a stele and that you can say on it: 'Amen-Re', King of the Gods, sent me Amun-of-the-Road his envoy, together with Wenamun his human envoy, in quest of the timber for the great noble bark of Amen-Re', King of the Gods. I felled it and I put it on board and I provided it with my ships and my crews. And I caused them to reach Egypt so as to beg for me from Amun fifty years of life over and above my fate.' And it would come to pass if after another day an envoy who had knowledge of writing were to come from the land of Egypt and were to read your name upon the stele, you would receive water of the West just like the gods who are there.
And he said to me: 'This is a great testimony of speech that you have said to me.' And I said to him: 'As regards the many things which you have said to me, if I reach the place where the First prophet of Amun is, and he see your commission, your commission will draw profit unto you. And I went off to the shore of the sea to the place where the logs ere laid, and I saw eleven ships coming from the sea which belonged to the Tjekker, they saying: 'Imprison him, let no ship of his leave for the land of Egypt.' Thereupon I sat and wept. And the letter-writer of the prince came out to me and said to me: 'What ails you?' And I said to him: 'Do you not see the migrant birds which go down twice to Egypt? Look at them, how they come to the cool waters. Until what arrives am I to be abandoned here? And do you not see those who have come to imprison me again?
And he went and told it to the prince. And the prince began to weep on account of the words that were said to him, they being so painful. And he sent out his letter-writer to me bringing me two flagons of wine and a sheep. And he caused to be brought to me Tentne, an Egyptian singing-woman whom he had , saying: 'Sing to him, do not let his heart be worried.' And he sent to me saying: 'Eat and drink, and let not your heart be worried. You shall hear tomorrow all that I shall say.' The morrow came and he caused his council to be summoned and he stood among them and said to the Tjekker: 'What mean these journeyings of yours?' And they said to him: 'We have come in pursuit of the fighting vessels which you are sending to Egypt with our adversaries.' And he said to them: 'I cannot imprison the envoy of Amun within my land. Let me send him away, and you shall go after him to imprison him.'
And he loaded me up and sent me thence to the harbor of the sea. And the wind drove me to the land of Alasiya. And the inhabitants of the place came out against me to kill me, but I forced my way through them to the place where Hatiba, the female prince of the town was. And I found her as she was going out from her one house and was entering into her other house. And I greeted her, and said to the people who stood around her: 'Is there not one among you who understands the language of Egypt?' And one among them said: 'I understand it.' And I said to him: 'Tell my mistress: as far as Ne, as the place where Amun is, I used to hear that injustice is done in every town, but that justice is done in the land of Alasiya. Is then injustice done every day here?' And she said: 'What indeed do you mean by saying it?' And I said to her:
'If the sea is angry and the wind drives me to the land where you are, will you cause me to be received so as to kill me, although I am the envoy of Amun? Look now, as regards myself they would seek me to the end of time. But as regards this crew of the prince of Byblos whom they seek to kill, will not their master find ten crews of yours and himself too kill them?' And she caused the people to be summoned, and they were made to attend. And she said to me: 'Pass the night....
This is where the story breaks off. If this is a proper report and not fiction as some claim, then we may assume that Wenamen reached Egypt in the end, as we have this account.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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===== The Inscriptions of Medinet Habu By Michele MacLaren, Liam McManus, and Megaera Lorenz
. . . .
The inscriptions go on to specify the groups which were involved in the "confederation": Peleset, Tjeker, Shekelesh, Denyen, and Weshesh.
. . . .
From the textual evidence on the temple walls, it appears that the Peleset and the Tjeker made up the majority of the Sea Peoples involved in the year 8 invasion. In the artistic depictions, both types are depicted wearing a fillet, from which protrudes a floppy plume and a protective piece down the nape of the neck. Their armament included long swords, spears and circular shields, and they are occasionally shown wearing body armor.
Other groups, such as the Shekelesh and Teresh, are shown wearing cloth headdresses and a medallion upon their breasts. The weaponry that they carried consisted of two spears and a simple round shield.
The Shardana soldiers are most obviously armored in the artistic depictions, due to the thick horned helmets that adorn their heads (Redford 1992: 252).
====
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Marc: Same KKK rAshol and KKey "hang-a-nigger" gang who revere the African lineage?
Man..... What!?!? Lmao. Is this more of that incoherently babbling derelict drivel?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
alTakruri - Is this what you have devolved to - nitpicking? Especially, erroneously so! How sad. But to your question, I know of no source that has definitively identified that group; as other than the generalization - Sea People prisoners. If you have such a source, then by all means, please post it.
But I beg you, please do not reuse the Flicker link that you referenced above. That idiot labeled the picture below as..
Relief in the Second Court, Festival of Min. Priests in the procession.
Come-on alTakruri, you must remember what Egyptian priests looked like, don't you? But just in case you forgot, they looked like this (the BALD headed guy). Just the thought of Egyptian priests with FEATHERS in their HAIRY heads, probably has the Pharaohs turning over in their graves.
alTakruri - To many, you used to represent the highest levels of scholarship on the board. Though your last few years has found you limited to nothing more than the occasional comment, sometimes incorrect. But that is no wonder - look at the company that you are keeping - the resident trolls rasol and the knowledgeless one. Come-on man, you're better than that!
So come-on get yourself together, put together some great information and post it. I expect great things from you in the future.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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===== The Inscriptions of Medinet Habu By Michele MacLaren, Liam McManus, and Megaera Lorenz
. . . .
The inscriptions go on to specify the groups which were involved in the "confederation": Peleset, Tjeker, Shekelesh, Denyen, and Weshesh.
. . . .
From the textual evidence on the temple walls, it appears that the Peleset and the Tjeker made up the majority of the Sea Peoples involved in the year 8 invasion. In the artistic depictions, both types are depicted wearing a fillet, from which protrudes a floppy plume and a protective piece down the nape of the neck. Their armament included long swords, spears and circular shields, and they are occasionally shown wearing body armor.
Other groups, such as the Shekelesh and Teresh, are shown wearing cloth headdresses and a medallion upon their breasts. The weaponry that they carried consisted of two spears and a simple round shield.
The Shardana soldiers are most obviously armored in the artistic depictions, due to the thick horned helmets that adorn their heads (Redford 1992: 252).
====
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
alTakruri - Is it that you are having a bad day, or is it that you have taken something that might not be quite legal?
In my post above, I clearly answered your question. This is what I said, Quote: "But to your question, I know of no source that has definitively identified that group; as other than the generalization - Sea People prisoners. If you have such a source, then by all means, please post it."
Where the hell is the Sahel anyway? Is there a lot of Hash there?Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Hey Rex, thanks. Sometimes you just have to put the pipe down. Maybe he'll feel better tomorrow.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Continuing my picture chronology of early European history.
As we have seen; The Tjeker/Peleset (Minoans) of Crete, later known as the “Philistines” have settled in Southern Canaan. But what of the rest of the original Europeans that are known as the Sea People: The Lukka who may have come from the Lycian region of Anatolia, The Ekwesh and Denen seem to be identified with the original (Black) Greeks, The Shardana (Sherden) who may be associated with Sardinia, The Teresh (Tursha or Tyrshenoi), the Tyrrhenians - the Greek name for the Etruscans, and The Shekelesh (Sicilians?)?
Note: [Quote from the Inscriptions of Medinet Habu: "Other groups, such as the Shekelesh and Teresh, are shown wearing cloth headdresses and a medallion upon their breasts"].
Answer - They went to Anatolia (Turkey), and here is where it gets REALLY complicated!
By conventional history, they entered Anatolia and destroyed the Hittite Empire. Problem is; there really was no-such-thing as a Hittite Empire. White people in their efforts to inject themselves into Black history, created this bogus Hittite Empire (note their depictions of Hittites – of course the same could be said for ALL the ancient Black people, they tried to make them ALL White - INCLUDING EGYPTIANS)!
Anyway – the Sea People invaded Anatolia and destroyed the original Anatolian “Hattie Empire” and because of this mixing and jumbling of Black artifacts (such as we are allowed to see), there is no way to distinguish from the artifacts; which are original Anatolians, and which are “Sea people” descendants - except by date - if it is correct.
Making note of the date; is the relief below, of an original Anatolian, or a descendant of the Sea People?
posted
no offense mike, as i see you seem enjoying yourself with your posting. but in the interest of clarity and accuracy it would be appropriate to answer great jew's question.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Continuing the picture chronology of early European history.
A while back; A poster made the comment that the ancient Etruscans came from Anatolia. My response was, “that there was no way to tell which way the gene flow went”. From the above history, you can see what I meant.
Some have asserted that the Phrygians of Anatolia were ethnically Etruscans - because of the dating. (The Phrygians of Phrygia, were an original people of Anatolia, who inhabited north-central Anatolia: one of their great kings was King Midas - of Midas's Gold Fame). Though this argument cannot be totally dismissed, the argument concerning Phrygian identity is somewhat diminished by the Etruscan Tomb Painting below - this painting is from the Francois Tomb, Vulci Italy – dated 200 B.C. It is titled “Sacrifice of the Trojan Captives”. The scene depicts the Sacrifice of Trojan Captives for the burial ceremony of the Black Greek hero Patroclus. It seems unlikely that Italian Etruscans would use their Trojan Etruscan brethren, (from Anatolia), as sacrifice.
Another interesting aspect of the painting, is that it clearly shows that the Etruscans, who are now under Roman rule – after being defeated and subjugated in 475 B.C. Are still identifiably Black, and even still wealthy.
But the image of the Angel on the left: clearly shows that racial absorption is well on the way. The image of the Angel clearly shows one who some of us fondly refer to as a “Red Bone” - that is, one of mixed race. The Angel clearly has tightly curled hair – like a Black person, but with pale skin, like a White person.
Racial absorption would of course continue, until those of Black Etruscan blood, became undistinguishable from White Romans.
^^^No wonder why....... It will always be discarded as long as we have people like Clyde, Marc and Mike around.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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^^^No wonder why....... It will always be discarded as long as we have people like Clyde, Marc and Mike around.
Shush, I don't think that Clarence Walker knows about this stuff, it might upset him.
Come to think about it, maybe we should upset him, White Negroes have been living in a White fantasy world long enough.
If anyone knows his e-mail address why not click the tab above and e-mail the thread to him.
BTW, Knowledgeiskey718, this is not Afrocentrism, you will note that Egypt was only a small part of it. It would be more accurate to call this Ancient European history, or even more simply - Black History.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Is this painting of one white and one dark Etruscan lying in bed together with both displaying bend waists significantly telling?
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Why do you refuse to identify which group they are based on the source you supplied? What are they according to that textual description? Are they
1 - Peleset or Tjeker as "both types are depicted wearing a fillet, from which protrudes a floppy plume ..."
2 - Shekelesh or Teresh who are "wearing cloth headdresses ..."
3 - Shardana with "thick horned helmets ..."
You assumed to label a group as Tjeker (though neither the mdw ntjr of the relief nor any text identifies them as such) based on number 1 as you posted on 06 December, 2008 01:23 PM and 06 December, 2008 03:23 PM.
Now you claim to be unable to use your source's description to identify the Sea People in question. "I know of no source that has definitively identified that group ..."
Come on, if you can boldly declare Egyptians to be Tjeker based only only on a textual description not at all speaking about the relief on which they appear you most surely should be able to identify people who really are the basis of the description in your source text.
When will you do it? If you can do the one you can do the other. And if you can't do the other then how can you claim to have done the one?
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
In my post above, I clearly answered your question. This is what I said, Quote: "But to your question, I know of no source that has definitively identified that group; as other than the generalization - Sea People prisoners. If you have such a source, then by all means, please post it."
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: When will you do it? If you can do the one you can do the other. And if you can't do the other then how can you claim to have done the one?
Wow Great Jew, that was deep... Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Here you are doing it again, but this time not so foolish enough to do so without questioning your conclusion.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Note: [Quote from the Inscriptions of Medinet Habu: "Other groups, such as the Shekelesh and Teresh, are shown wearing cloth headdresses and a medallion upon their breasts"].
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
alTakruri - look to your health man. You have become fixated on a SMALL issue.
As with most things associated with piecing together the stolen history of ancient Black people - you have to PIECE it together. White people do not, and will not provide access. There is only ONE group whose appearance matches the description of the Peleset/ Tjeker. It seems simple logic to me, but as I challenged you before, if you have better information, POST IT!!!!!
BTW - Are you so-far gone, that you don't know what a question mark means? (picture above)Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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As with most things associated with piecing together the stolen history of ancient Black people - you have to PIECE it together. White people do not, and will not provide access. [/QB]
lol Mikes translation: I made it up. Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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