posted
It started with a conversation with Nay-Sayer:
Nay-Sayer
Catechism: "The Egyptians called their country Kemet or Black after the color of the soil."
Kemet [nu][community, settlement, nation] = Black nation = Ancient Egypt.
Mike111
Problem is, I don't put much stock in ANY of the translations - for purely logical reasons.
I will explain: Say you were standing with a group of friends, and someone douses you with a bucket of water. If someone asked you who you were, you could jokingly say "I am the WET one".
Say you were now standing in a pool with these same friends, and someone asked you who you are: you could no longer say that you are the "WET" one, because you are ALL WET, (pardon the pun).
Likewise, how could the Egyptians differentiate their nation as the "Black Nation" when all known Nations were ALSO Black.
The same problem exists with Sumerian translations. The Sumerians are said to call themselves sag.gi6.ga, meaning "the Black-headed ones". Here we find the same problem, at that time, there are no Whites or Mongols around, so how would that differentiate them from other people.
I was not the only one!
Ebony Allen (from feb. 2007)
I am member of a black forum. This guy was talking about how Egyptians never originally called their land Khemet. Before that they called it Ta-Mery which means "Beloved Land". He then said the only reason that they called the land Khemet was to distinguish themselves from whites/Arabs who invaded. He also says that they never called themselves kememu which we know means black people until the invasions. Is this all true?
Mike111
After thinking about it, it occurred to me how truly lacking in first-hand knowledge of the “Kemet” thing that I was. I mean that I never bothered to look it up, to see it, or it’s context, I simply just accepted it.
But now, after thinking about it, it occurred to me that all the inferences that I have personally seen, refer NOT to Kemet, but to the “Two Lands” (upper and lower Egypt), see the examples below.
From the Papyrus of Nebseni "You, who illuminest the Two Lands with your splendour]
A Hymn to Osiris and the Legend of the Origin of Horus
Thou art the two-fold substance of the Two Lands everywhere, and the divine food of the Kau,
Autobiography of Ahmose, son of Abana
The Lord of the Two Lands, Nebpehtire, the justified. I was a youth who had not married.
Following up: I read where the earliest instances of the words were in the Papyrus of Ani; Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Tale of Sinuhe.
I checked the Papyrus of Ani; Egyptian Book of the Dead translations by E. A. WALLIS BUDGE and Neil Parker
Thou art the substance of Two Lands (Egypt) Thou art the heir of Keb and of the sovereignty of the Two Lands (Egypt) The Two Lands (Egypt) are content to crown thee upon the throne of thy father, like Ra. Thou floodest the Two Lands like the Disk at daybreak.
The Tale of Sinuhe
The servant of the harim Sinuhe says: - Fair hail! Discerned is this flight that thy servant made in his witlessness, yea even by thy ka, thou good god, lord of the two lands, whom Re loves and Montu, lord of Thebes.
I tried reading the hieroglyphs, problem is the symbols that are suppose to say KMT are the signs for Water, steps or rocks, the falcon, and the sign for (Two) over a sign that I don't know - my guess is that it's the sign for land.
So exactly where is this Kemet or Km.t word, and if it exists, what is it's true meaning.
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[nwt] is the determinative glyph denoting society/community/civilization.
As for the purpose of your thread:
There are groups in "black africa" that call themselves "black", and others that call themselves "red". It's all relative.
Furthermore, skeletally, they differed significantly with contemporary populations in South Western Asia, whose to say that this was not in terms of skin color?
NorthWestern Europeans - the ones surrounded by "white" folk - did not refrain from referring to themselves as "white" either.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
^^^You are missing the point; which is that I have not found ANY reference to Egypt, other than as the "Two Lands" period. Forget what Kemet means, I can find no incidence of the word at all. After I find it, then we can try to figure out what it means.
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posted
How about trying the Kahun papyrus for reference, for instance. Absence of awareness is not absence of evidence. And even if you tried looking for it, how would you know if you came across the term "kemet"?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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According to the link below; the steps glyph means Km, the Owl means m, the loaf means t, and the glyph that looks like a "railroad" sign, which is under the loaf, means village, town, or Egypt.
So I ask, where does the Black land stuff come from?
This link will show you the hieroglyph (top right) that means Km.t
My question was intended for you; I'm not the one who is confused about Kemet. The person who wrote this, must be though:
Forget what Kemet means, I can find no incidence of the word at all. - Mike111
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posted
The Explorer - I know that you are a truly stupid little pink-ass White boy. But would it have been such a difficult task to understand that I was alluding to the Km.t meaning "Black Land". You pathetic little piece of Sh1t, is that the best contribution you can make, pointing out mistakes in grammer??Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: It started with a conversation with Nay-Sayer:
Nay-Sayer
Catechism: "The Egyptians called their country Kemet or Black after the color of the soil."
Kemet [nu][community, settlement, nation] = Black nation = Ancient Egypt.
Mike111
Problem is, I don't put much stock in ANY of the translations - for purely logical reasons.
I will explain: Say you were standing with a group of friends, and someone douses you with a bucket of water. If someone asked you who you were, you could jokingly say "I am the WET one".
Say you were now standing in a pool with these same friends, and someone asked you who you are: you could no longer say that you are the "WET" one, because you are ALL WET, (pardon the pun).
Likewise, how could the Egyptians differentiate their nation as the "Black Nation" when all known Nations were ALSO Black.
The same problem exists with Sumerian translations. The Sumerians are said to call themselves sag.gi6.ga, meaning "the Black-headed ones". Here we find the same problem, at that time, there are no Whites or Mongols around, so how would that differentiate them from other people.
I was not the only one!
Ebony Allen (from feb. 2007)
I am member of a black forum. This guy was talking about how Egyptians never originally called their land Khemet. Before that they called it Ta-Mery which means "Beloved Land". He then said the only reason that they called the land Khemet was to distinguish themselves from whites/Arabs who invaded. He also says that they never called themselves kememu which we know means black people until the invasions. Is this all true?
Mike111
After thinking about it, it occurred to me how truly lacking in first-hand knowledge of the “Kemet” thing that I was. I mean that I never bothered to look it up, to see it, or it’s context, I simply just accepted it.
But now, after thinking about it, it occurred to me that all the inferences that I have personally seen, refer NOT to Kemet, but to the “Two Lands” (upper and lower Egypt), see the examples below.
From the Papyrus of Nebseni "You, who illuminest the Two Lands with your splendour]
A Hymn to Osiris and the Legend of the Origin of Horus
Thou art the two-fold substance of the Two Lands everywhere, and the divine food of the Kau,
Autobiography of Ahmose, son of Abana
The Lord of the Two Lands, Nebpehtire, the justified. I was a youth who had not married.
Following up: I read where the earliest instances of the words were in the Papyrus of Ani; Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Tale of Sinuhe.
I checked the Papyrus of Ani; Egyptian Book of the Dead translations by E. A. WALLIS BUDGE and Neil Parker
Thou art the substance of Two Lands (Egypt) Thou art the heir of Keb and of the sovereignty of the Two Lands (Egypt) The Two Lands (Egypt) are content to crown thee upon the throne of thy father, like Ra. Thou floodest the Two Lands like the Disk at daybreak.
The Tale of Sinuhe
The servant of the harim Sinuhe says: - Fair hail! Discerned is this flight that thy servant made in his witlessness, yea even by thy ka, thou good god, lord of the two lands, whom Re loves and Montu, lord of Thebes.
I tried reading the hieroglyphs, problem is the symbols that are suppose to say KMT are the signs for Water, steps or rocks, the falcon, and the sign for (Two) over a sign that I don't know - my guess is that it's the sign for land.
So exactly where is this Kemet or Km.t word, and if it exists, what is it's true meaning.
From my understanding, if you look at the Narmer Pallette, the name of Kemet begins to make sense. The narmer pallette depicts the 3 races in the same way that the tomb of Ramses does (red, yellow and black). It depicts the black egyptians purging the lower land of Kemet from the invading Asian/Mediterranean settlers. The africans then set about naming their nation in a political statement to these people. The new demarkations of Lower and Upper Egypt were called 'Black lands' in differentiation to the non blacks, not to the blacks. Although I could be wrong, when did they start calling the land Km.t??
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The Narmer Palette, dating from about 3200 BC, contains some of the earliest hieroglyphic inscriptions ever found. The palette seems to commemorate the historical events which led to the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt. It illustrates various representations of divine and royal iconographic themes. On one side, the king, wearing the white crown of Upper Egypt, is shown smiting an enemy who seems to symbolize the Delta. Such scene symbolizes also the triumph of order over chaos. The other side shows the king wearing the red crown of Lower Egypt marching in a parade of victory after defeating the enemies of the unification. Below, the two mythological animals representing both halves of the country are being kept under control. The palette also perpetuates the king's name " Narmer " in the early hieroglyphic script.
The palette's top
the name of the king is inscribed in a serekh between two Cow or Bull's heads.
The top scene
The second figure from the left, Narmer is represented wearing the Red Crown of Lower Egypt. He holds a mace in his left hand, while his right arm is bent over his chest, holding a flail. The two signs in from of him represent his name. He is followed by an bald figure that holds his sandals in his left hand and some kind of basket in his right. A rectangle above this sandal-bearer's head contains a sign of uncertain meaning.
The king is preceded by a long-haired person. The signs accompanying this figure is unknown. A person similarly designed and with the same hieroglyphs, can also be found on the ceremonial mace-heads of both Narmer and 'Scorpion'. His role is normally interpreted as that of a 'shaman'. Before this figure, four persons are holding a standard. The left-most standard represents some kind of animal skin, the second a dog and the next two a falcon. These standards might be the emblems of the royal house of Narmer, or of the regions that already belonged to his kingdom.
The object of this procession is made clear on the right hand side of the scene: 10 decapitated corpses are shown lying on the ground, their heads thrown between their legs. Above the victims, a ship with a harpoon and a falcon in it, are drawn. These signs are often interpreted as the name of the conquered region. If this name has remained the same throughout the history of Ancient Egypt, then the region conquered by Narmer was the Mareotis-region, the 7th Lower-Egyptian province.The two signs in front of the probable name of the region, the wing of a door and a sparrow are thought to mean 'create' or 'found'. Thus it can interpreted as meaning, that on the occasion of the conquest of the Mareotis region, Narmer founded a new province, whose name is written as the ship, the harpoon and the falcon.
Central scene
The central scene on the palette's front shows two men tying together the stretched necks of two mythological animals. The tying together of the necks of these two animals has often been interpreted as a symbol for the tying together of Upper and Lower Egypt.
Bottom scene
The scene at the bottom of the palette's front face continues the imagery of conquest and victory. A bull, almost certainly a symbol of the king's vigor and strength, tramples a fallen foe and attacks the walls of a city or fortress with its horns. The name of the city or fortress attacked by the bull is written within the walls, but its meaning is unknown.
The king is preceded by a long-haired person. The signs accompanying this figure is unknown. A person similarly designed and with the same hieroglyphs, can also be found on the ceremonial mace-heads of both Narmer and 'Scorpion'. His role is normally interpreted as that of a 'shaman'. Before this figure, four persons are holding a standard. The left-most standard represents some kind of animal skin, the second a dog and the next two a falcon. These standards might be the emblems of the royal house of Narmer, or of the regions that already belonged to his kingdom.
The object of this procession is made clear on the right hand side of the scene: 10 decapitated corpses are shown lying on the ground, their heads thrown between their legs. Above the victims, a ship with a harpoon and a falcon in it, are drawn. These signs are often interpreted as the name of the conquered region. If this name has remained the same throughout the history of Ancient Egypt, then the region conquered by Narmer was the Mareotis-region, the 7th Lower-Egyptian province.The two signs in front of the probable name of the region, the wing of a door and a sparrow are thought to mean 'create' or 'found'. Thus it can interpreted as meaning, that on the occasion of the conquest of the Mareotis region, Narmer founded a new province, whose name is written as the ship, the harpoon and the falcon.
The top of the back side of the palette is the same.
The first scene shows a king, undoubtedly Narmer, ready to strike down a foe whom he has taken by the hair. This pose is typical in Ancient Egyptian art. The king wears a kilt, a bull's tail and the White Crown of Upper Egypt.
Above the victim's head and facing the king, a depiction of a marshland is represented: the left side of this piece of land or swamp is decorated with the head of a man, reminiscent of Narmer's victim. Out of that land, six papyrus plants are growing, indicating that this land was a marshland.
A falcon, the symbol of the king, is perched on top of the papyrus plants and appears to have hold of the nostrils of the marshland's face.The depiction of a marshland on the palette has very often been seen as a reference to the marshy lands of the Nile Delta in Lower Egypt.
Bottom scene
Underneath the king's feet, at the bottom of the palette's back, lie two naked enemies. One of their arms is raised up, the other is drawn behind their backs. Their legs are sprawling. In fact, their entire posture indicates that they are fallen enemies. To the left of each victim, a hieroglyphic sign is drawn, the left, representing a wall and the other, some sort of knot. Both signs are usually interpreted as names of places that have been conquered by Narmer.
posted
Narmer Menes, Quote: From my understanding, if you look at the Narmer Pallette, the name of Kemet begins to make sense. The narmer pallette depicts the 3 races in the same way that the tomb of Ramses does (red, yellow and black). It depicts the black egyptians purging the lower land of Kemet from the invading Asian/Mediterranean settlers. The africans then set about naming their nation in a political statement to these people. The new demarkations of Lower and Upper Egypt were called 'Black lands' in differentiation to the non blacks, not to the blacks. Although I could be wrong, when did they start calling the land Km.t??
Narmer Menes, as you can see, that is another myth. And as you can also see; all the people involved were Black, and they were NOT driven off, they became citizens of the new country.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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The Explorer - I know that you are a truly stupid little pink-ass White boy. But would it have been such a difficult task to understand that I was alluding to the Km.t meaning "Black Land". You pathetic little piece of Sh1t, is that the best contribution you can make, pointing out mistakes in grammer??
The Milky Clit - I know you truly have no dick, stupid little slave. But would it have been such a difficult task to understand even yourself, and quote:
You are missing the point; which is that I have not found ANY reference to Egypt, other than as the "Two Lands" period.
Forget what Kemet means - Milky Clit
What does the above mean, Milky Clit, when you say "Forget" what "Kemet means", especially given that "Kemet" is the supposed subject of this God forsaken intellectually shallow thread?
Now, let's turn to this:
I can find no incidence of the word at all. - Milky Clit
How are you supposed to demonstrate this "Kemet myth", if one is supposed to forget its meaning, as you idiotically spout out above, and when your arse has never come across the word anywhere at all?
After I find it, then we can try to figure out what it means. - Milky Clit
And we are supposed to entertain a clown who doesn't even know the meaning of the word she is presumably ridiculing the informed folks about, and calling their *correct* understanding of the term a "myth"? This slave, was what my comment was relating: The fact that you don't even know what the word looks like, let alone know if and when it punched your ass in the face.
You are one beat down dumbass slave, who does not even understand what she writes, let alone what someone else writes -- the latter being myself and the Kemetians. Go and learn how to speak in "human".
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Hey rasol you a-hole, thankfully long time no-see. Do you White boys, or wannabe White boys, really find it that hard to understand that I was researching as I was posting. Therefore the thread might be fluid. Question - how would you know what numb-nuts looks like.
BTW - Feel free to explain this supposedly simple thing to me. I await with breathless anticipation, He he.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Narmer Menes, Quote: From my understanding, if you look at the Narmer Pallette, the name of Kemet begins to make sense. The narmer pallette depicts the 3 races in the same way that the tomb of Ramses does (red, yellow and black). It depicts the black egyptians purging the lower land of Kemet from the invading Asian/Mediterranean settlers. The africans then set about naming their nation in a political statement to these people. The new demarkations of Lower and Upper Egypt were called 'Black lands' in differentiation to the non blacks, not to the blacks. Although I could be wrong, when did they start calling the land Km.t??
Narmer Menes, as you can see, that is another myth. And as you can also see; all the people involved were Black, and they were NOT driven off, they became citizens of the new country.
Your interpretation of the Narmer pallette neither touched on the races being depicted, nor the details about the narmer pallette that are important to understanding its significance. I dont buy into the assumption that the two sides of the tablet represent the two lands of KMT, it is more representative of two sides of one tale, let me expand:
I have split the tablet into 6 major sections labelled A-F. Bare with me if you will and in this minor study I will explain the message that the Narmer Pallette is conveying, or conveys to me.
The servant of the Pharaoh holds the pharaohs slippers. This act signifies that the Pharaoh is about to commit a sacrificial execution. It is also important to note this servants features. He has what would be defined as a phenotypically 'Nubian nose' and pronounced lips. He also has a short patted afro, (and is clearly NOT bald, not unless you really want him to be ) , his short afro is a hairstyle typical of Egyptian art.
Are these peoples being depicted fellow Kemetians? Why is the king dealing so ruthlessly with his own people? To me, the people depicted here are Semite/Asiatic, or perhaps your early mixed semite types. The act of unification became necessary when Asian settlers had occupied North Africa. Prior to this the land had been exclusive territory of the only Africans (Kemetians). The pharaoh began a campaign to purge and unify the lands. In this photo, the pharaoh is about to ritualistically despatch of the Asian invaders. He appears to hold him by his (naturalistically depicted straight hair)...
Two asiatic/semite (NOT Kmtian) invaders are encaged below the feet of the Pharaoh. Remember, with the Egyptians lower symbolised NORTH. They are naked, so we can thus conclude the hair symbolised are NOT egyptian wigs, these are them in their natural form. Their entrapment in the lower part of the tablet is symbolic of the fact that as of this point the asiatic (semite) settlers who occupied the Northern territory of Egypt would be subdued and kept seperate from the land of Egypt. These people are NOT bound, symbolising that they are NOT prisoners, but rather a different peoples, perhaps their state of nakedness symbolises more than just this, but it is clear the barrier BELOW the feet of the pharoah symbolises seperation from the Asian (settlers) who had begun to people the land.
At the top of the second side of the Narmer Tablet, the Pharaoh is now wearing the crown of Lower Egypt. This symbolises that the conquering of the land (Lower Egypt) had been completed. He once again is accompanied by his servant, (sporting an Afro). As the pharoahs feet are still bare with the same servant holding his slippers. The bodies to the right have been decapitated, symbolising that a war had taken place, the EMPTY boat is situated next to the decapitated bodies, not the pharaoh. Is this symbolic of the fact that the peoples whom the Kemetians conquered were the foreigners? The Kemetians were an already established civilisation with a pharaonic structure and societal organisation already in place at this time. They were not the invaders, but rather the purgers. The man you stated who may be a 'shaman' quite clearly has a weight tied around his neck. His body is arched over, perhaps a former ruler being led to slaughter?
This picture is the most significant evidence of who the people of Kemet were, and how they depicted themselves. This part of the tablet shows 2 native Egyptians restraining 2 feline heads to prevent conflict. The heads are now intertwined forming a circle (complete union). The two felines are one without warring, this is symbolic of the unification of the Upper and Lower Kemet (Egypt).
IMPORTANT note: The 2 men subduing the beasts CLEARLY have afro's are different to the asiatics pictured on the other side. They are, like the pharoah and the man holding the sandals, indigenous Kemetians.
This images on the lower (North) of the second side of the tablet is very telling in completing the picture that I described earlier. Once again it is at the bottom (Lower or North) of the tablet with a barrier between symbolising the seperation (once again). A man is being trampled by a Bull. However, not just any man. This man is NEITHER asiatic/semite nor Africans pictured throughout the tablet. He has what would phenotypically be called a 'Roman/Acqueline Nose', distinct from the people depicted on the other side, long and pointed with a convex arch. This man is naked and the tent in the background symbolises that he is a tent dweller? Nomadic (perhaps barbarous). He, to me is a clear depiction of the Western Asian or Tamahu type. Pharoahs were also oft time depicted as bulls, so the bull could be symbolic of the pharoah trampling these foreign barbarians with little regard.
Now obviously, this is MY interpretation. You could accuse me of reading it unlearnedly, or being biased, but I read it as I see it.
In relation to the question posted in the thread, there are 3 races to me, that are quite clearly being depicted on the tablet, the same races that are depicted throughout Kemetic history. And the tablet's story seems to be an indication of the rationale behind the naming of KMT to be ''land of the blacks''. Regardless of whether my interpretation is wrong (like all previously suggested, it is only an interpretation), but one thing is clear, the only people who WITHOUT A DOUBT can be classified as Kemetians on this tablet are even crowned (pharoah) or have afro hair. The role of the non-afro'd peoples is dubious, and calling them Kemetians would be an assumption.
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posted
Narmer Menes - I think that the fundamental problem here; is that you (like many) think that this is what Black people look like. But you would be wrong, numerically a (small) minority of Black people look like the person in the picture.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: From The Mortuary Temple of Ramesses III (Medinet Habu).
White? I don't think so!
So what are they, black? There are races between and outside white and black, right?
No need to patronise me, I am well aware of the fact that there is no all-encompasing black phenotype. However, there is a clear physical differentiation of the persons depicted on the Narmer pallette that is hard to refute. The fact that non black = white to you would suggest that you perhaps have fallen for the "caucasoid" nonsense. Fact is, how many Kemetians are depicted with long straight hair? Whether or not they are stereotypically ''true negro'' is neither here nor there. That clearly was not the point I was trying to make.
I think it is a HUGE stretch of the imagination to assume the man being trampled is a depiction of a black african! Just because you've been sold an interpretation of the pallette, it doesnt make it the definitive interpretation. Lest Narmer come back from the dead, ''interpret'' is all we can do.
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posted
Besides, I was just trying to offer a suggestion regarding the choosing of the name Kemet. My point is, the Kemetians were not surrounded by blacks. Meditteranean, Asiatics and mixed persons were already around.
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posted
Narmer Menes - I do understand where you are coming from, that is why I made my points. Fact is that you have a false understanding of history. At that time, the Europeans were Black, as well as the Canaanites, Sumerians, Elamites, etc.
One of the reasons that Medinet Habu is so important, is that it houses artifacts that help document the transition in southern Europe from Black to White rule.
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posted
MindoverMatter718 - Please go away. I can tell that you are priming to start something stupid.
But before you go, do you understand that Asia starts at the eastern shores of the Mediterranean Sea?
And that the only people that can be said to be genetically Asian are White people and Mongols - did you know that?Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: But before you go, do you understand that Asia starts at the eastern shores of the Mediterranean Sea?
And that the only people that can be said to be genetically Asian are White people and Mongols - did you know that?[/b]
....and Indians, Melanesian's etc... What's your point?
Europeans were still not black at the time Dynastic Egypt arose, sorry, you have absolutely no credibility for this whatsoever.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
^ but according to you mindless there are no Europeans. They are "African and Asian derived populations". Once they was just an "Asian derived population". lol
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: It wouldn't be so bad if we hadn't already gone over this subject just a month ago.
....hence there should be no reason for you to be still promoting your nonsense.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
MindoverMatter718 - Here is the deal, discredit my data and evidence with BETTER data and evidence or go back to wherever you were before you decided to once again concern yourself with matters that you can't seem to understand - or is it that your cracker mind simply won't understand.
Making the snide comments like "hence there should be no reason for you to be still promoting your nonsense" doesn't make sense to intelligent people. You have to say WHY it's nonsense - and prove it. That's how grownups work.
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The fact that it's been proven to you genetically, archeologically , anthropologically etc.. that your claim about Europeans being black at the time of Dynastic Egypt, and that whites just recently invaded Europe has been proven false a long time ago, hence there should be no reason for you to be still promoting your nonsense. Understand?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
^ gringo projecting his love of whiteness. hey, gringo, wheres chris ehret? havent seen him in your posts for quite some time. lol
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Narmer Menes - I do understand where you are coming from, that is why I made my points. Fact is that you have a false understanding of history. At that time, the Europeans were Black, as well as the Canaanites, Sumerians, Elamites, etc.
One of the reasons that Medinet Habu is so important, is that it houses artifacts that help document the transition in southern Europe from Black to White rule.
So why the CLEAR differentiation of peoples on the Narmer Pallette? Is it of no significance at all that EVERY person who is CLEARLY depicted Kemetic has Afro hair, and ALL other have long straight hair?
OK, lets assume that all the peoples depicted were black (in the modern sense of the word, ie. of African descent of all hues from light/yellow brown to red brown to dark black). If the people to the North had taken on a yellow/brown hue due to climatisation and some sort of melano-adjustment, then would that then explain the term KMT? Acknowledging that race and hue is relative, if the peoples of KMT/Kush were (say) very black, and the people of the north were (say) not so black, the southerners might call themselves black in differentiation to the people of the North (as neither would know any better as they had not yet confronted ''whites'' according to your theory).
I am willing to hear more on your understanding, perhaps you could provide some links and further reading that I can check up. I once purchased a book called ''From Babylon to Timbuktu'' proposing a similar idea, but it was such a poor example of scholarship that I gave it away. The book should never have been published. If you could provide something better researched and qualified, I would be glad to read into it and adjudge the validity of your claims for myself. After all, only a fool accepts the tripe that western academicians and religions have been force feeding society for centuries...
I, still, am struggling to understand your point though... who exactly would have ''made up'' the term KMT, racist Egyptologists of the 1800s in some kind of self defeating act?
NB: What of the person crushed by the bull. Is he black in your opinion?
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Well WhiteMike,
The fact that it's been proven to you genetically, archeologically , anthropologically etc.. that your claim about Europeans being black at the time of Dynastic Egypt, and that whites just recently invaded Europe has been proven false a long time ago, hence there should be no reason for you to be still promoting your nonsense. Understand?
Mindless one: In one of my posts above, I said Quote: "before you decided to once again concern yourself with matters that you can't seem to understand - or is it that your cracker mind simply won't understand."
So please explain to me and all, what parts of the links that you posted, proves your position. Or didn't you really read past the first page.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Narmer Menes - Sorry for the interruption, as you can see, once Black people start discussing this kind of thing in a serious way, the white boys and their Lackeys suddenly show up.
To your question; please find a picture that demonstrates what an Egyptians hair looked like.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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^^WhiteMike, as I've already said, your "theory" has been thoroughly debunked, kid. With one single genetic study. You can now discontinue to promote your pseudo nonsense.......
DNA sequences from ancient speciments may in fact result from undetected contamination of the ancient specimens by modern DNA, and the problem is particularly challenging in studies of human fossils. Doubts on the authenticity of the available sequences have so far hampered genetic comparisons between anatomically archaic (Neandertal) and early modern (Cro-Magnoid) Europeans.
Methodology/Principal Findings
We typed the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) hypervariable region I in a 28,000 years old Cro-Magnoid individual from the Paglicci cave, in Italy (Paglicci 23) and in all the people who had contact with the sample since its discovery in 2003. The Paglicci 23 sequence, determined through the analysis of 152 clones, is the Cambridge reference sequence, and cannot possibly reflect contamination because it differs from all potentially contaminating modern sequences.
Conclusions/Significance:
The Paglicci 23 individual carried a mtDNA sequence that is still common in Europe, and which radically differs from those of the almost contemporary Neandertals, demonstrating a genealogical continuity across 28,000 years, from Cro-Magnoid to modern Europeans. Because all potential sources of modern DNA contamination are known, the Paglicci 23 sample will offer a unique opportunity to get insight for the first time into the nuclear genes of early modern Europeans.Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Mindless One - If you can't be bothered to actually think (even at the most basic level) about the White-boy Bullsh1t that you read - and then force on us. Then I can't be bothered with you.
From Wiki MtDNA
The rapid rate of change makes mtDNA most useful for comparisons of individuals within species and for comparisons of species that are closely or moderately-closely related, among which the number of sequence differences can be easily counted. As the species become more distantly related, the number of sequence differences becomes very large; changes begin to accumulate on changes until an accurate count becomes impossible.
Comment; For ancient work, it's worthless. That is why they use MtDNA INSTEAD of Y-DNA when they examine ancient skeletons. Y-DNA would indicate who was Black - and that is the LAST thing that they want to do.
Cro-Magnon Britannica article
The question of the relation of Cro-Magnons to the earliest forms of Homo-sapiens (like Neanderthal) is still unclear. It does appear however, that Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals are closer in affinity than was once believed. Though Cro-Magnon is found all over Europe, Asia and the Mediterranean, The tendency now is to locate the origin of the Cro-Magnon type Humanoid in the Middle-east: as typified by the remains found at the Jebel Qafzeh and Skhul sites in what is now Israel. Just as complex as the origin of Cro-Magnons, is that of the duration of Cro-Magnons. It appears that they flourished during the Upper Paleolithic (old stone age, 40,000 - 4,000 years ago).
They are, and have been exinct for at LEAST 6,000 years.
Homo-sapiens (Black People) Britannica article
The Genus and species to which all modern human beings (Homo-sapiens-sapiens), belong and to which are attributable fossil remains of humans in Africa, from 400,000 years ago or more. Homo sapiens are distinguished from other animals and from earlier humanoid species by characteristics and habits such as bipedal stance and gait, brain capacity averaging about 82 cubic inches, high forehead, small teeth and jaw, defined chin, construction and use of tools, and the ability to make use of symbols such as used in language and writing. Some of these features were possessed by the immediate ancestor, Homo erectus; but in the aggregate they are characteristic only of Homo sapiens.
Homo sapiens, “man the wise,” is the only currently existing species of the genus Homo.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Lmao @ Gringo embarrassing himself again. And he has the nerve to talk about other peoples "theories".
Hey mindless718, what about your environmentally adapted Asians/humans living in Europe whom you think a Bay Area Chinese best represents! lol
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Narmer Menes - When you are ready to continue, please let me know.
OK. Regarding Egyptian hair, my point regarding the Narmer stella is that the people who we can (with certainty) classify as Kemetians (ie, are not being slaughtered or are sprawling around naked) all have afro hair. Thats an observation, and seems hard to refute. Therefore we can assume that the Kemetians were perhaps making a statement regarding the way they looked in comparison to the peoples who they were defeating. As you say, it may not be a statement explicitly about white/yellow/red/black peoples, but there are phenotypical distinction being made, no? And not just with hair, also with facial features as expressed in the extreme Roman features and long straight hair of the naked barbarian being trampled by the bull.
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I agree with Narmer Menes they are Asiatics being defeated by the Egyptian. It's the interpretation I've always known and I have yet to hear a viable alternative. I guess you can still argue for the Asiatics at this time being "black" in a broad sense of the term but like the Hyksos, which I heard Dr. Ben say some looked like "crude black people", they were still Asiatics and were some what differentiated from Nile Valley blacks as their depictions in Egyptian art shows.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Mindless One - If you can't be bothered to actually think (even at the most basic level) about the White-boy Bullsh1t that you read - and then force on us. Then I can't be bothered with you.
From Wiki MtDNA
The rapid rate of change makes mtDNA most useful for comparisons of individuals within species and for comparisons of species that are closely or moderately-closely related, among which the number of sequence differences can be easily counted. As the species become more distantly related, the number of sequence differences becomes very large; changes begin to accumulate on changes until an accurate count becomes impossible.
Comment; For ancient work, it's worthless. That is why they use MtDNA INSTEAD of Y-DNA when they examine ancient skeletons. Y-DNA would indicate who was Black - and that is the LAST thing that they want to do.
You complain about me posting an actual genetic study from actual geneticists, and then you go on and cite Wikipedia?
Anyway, why can't Mtdna tell you who is "black"?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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The question of the relation of Cro-Magnons to the earliest forms of Homo-sapiens (like Neanderthal) is still unclear. It does appear however, that Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals are closer in affinity than was once believed. Though Cro-Magnon is found all over Europe, Asia and the Mediterranean, The tendency now is to locate the origin of the Cro-Magnon type Humanoid in the Middle-east: as typified by the remains found at the Jebel Qafzeh and Skhul sites in what is now Israel. Just as complex as the origin of Cro-Magnons, is that of the duration of Cro-Magnons. It appears that they flourished during the Upper Paleolithic (old stone age, 40,000 - 4,000 years ago). [/QB]
Do you know what the Qafzeh and Skhul sites are, and what they produced?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: They are, and have been exinct for at LEAST 6,000 years.
Homo-sapiens (Black People) Britannica article
The Genus and species to which all modern human beings (Homo-sapiens-sapiens), belong and to which are attributable fossil remains of humans in Africa, from 400,000 years ago or more. Homo sapiens are distinguished from other animals and from earlier humanoid species by characteristics and habits such as bipedal stance and gait, brain capacity averaging about 82 cubic inches, high forehead, small teeth and jaw, defined chin, construction and use of tools, and the ability to make use of symbols such as used in language and writing. Some of these features were possessed by the immediate ancestor, Homo erectus; but in the aggregate they are characteristic only of Homo sapiens.
You're just so ignorant that you don't even bother to read.
European early modern humans and the fate of the Neandertals Erik Trinkaus*
A consideration of the morphological aspects of the earliest modern humans in Europe (more than 33,000 B.P.) and the subsequent Gravettian human remains indicates that they possess an anatomical pattern congruent with the autapomorphic (derived) morphology of the earliest (Middle Paleolithic) African modern humans.Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Mindless One - You will need to find someone else to engage in these stupid and endless exchanges with you - Get LostPosts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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^^Elaborate on what's *stupid* about me asking you to explain your own theory? If you feel you have no obligation to explain your feeble theory than hey what can I say....but that you're a phony, no big deal.
The Paglicci 23 individual carried a mtDNA sequence that is still common in Europe, and which radically differs from those of the almost contemporary Neandertals, demonstrating a genealogical continuity across 28,000 years, from Cro-Magnoid to modern Europeans. Because all potential sources of modern DNA contamination are known, the Paglicci 23 sample will offer a unique opportunity to get insight for the first time into the nuclear genes of early modern Europeans.Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Narmer Menes and akoben - My position is based purely on logic and OTHER artifacts. You might keep in mind that we don't REALLY know anything about the Stele, we know what we have been told.
My knowledge of history and OTHER artifacts does not support your interpretation - I will explain.
But first, lets revisit the stele. Please look at my closeup of the center part: The people that you say have afro's do not, they are wearing skull caps - or the like. This can be determined by looking at the "First Two" standard bearers - straightish hair is sticking out from under the back of the caps.
The Shaman person may well be a female, and the way the ends of her hair looks, indicates that it might be a wig. The Shaman - she is holding the object - whatever it is.
BTW - I asked you to post a picture of an Egyptians hair, because if there are any, they are few. Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Narmer Menes and akoben - By way of demonstration of early Egyptian headgear, have a look at the statue below.
MacGregor Man
MacGregor Man - named for a previous owner. This polished black basalt figure of a male wearing a hood and penis sheath was once in the collection of the Rev William MacGregor, and is said to have been found in the region of Naqada. The authenticity of this sculpture has been questioned. In order to authenticate this statue, some have pointed to aspects of its dress and pose finding parallels in early art, such as the Hierakonpolis ivories and the Min colossi from Koptos. Although 'MacGregor Man' may have come from a late Predynastic burial, it is perhaps more likely that, like the Hierakonpolis ivories, he was set up in a temple, possibly at Nagada or Hierakonpolis.
For those not familiar with a penis sheath. (Narmer Menes and akoben - note the hair)
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Mindless One - On the odd chance that you really believe that Bullsh1t about White people being native to Europe: Here is another White-boy trying to figure out where the hell you people come from. Read it, and forever keep that Sh1t to yourself, and your kind. It's your problem, deal with it. The rest of us are still trying to figure out your lies about us.
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Narmer Menes - From your previous posts, I got the feeling that you took this picture seriously.
This mural of the races from the tomb of Ramses, is a Belzoni illustration. If you were taken-in by it, then you deserved what you got, because you forgot to be skeptical. Whether it is some Black guy on a soapbox, or for sure, White people giving history, you must always be skeptical.
This is the original. Supposedly showing Libyans, a Nubian, a Syrian and an Egyptian.
I say supposedly because we really don't know much at all about what is in Ramesses III tomb. Think about that, Medinet Habu is one of the great resources for information about the original Europeans (the Sea People), as well as Libyans and other people. Yet we know very little about what the inscriptions say, and there are very few authentic pictures of the contents - strange, wouldn't you say?
White people invaded and conquered Europe, casting out the original Black people. They conquered North Africa and the Middle east. They conquered Northern India.
Their cousins the Mongols; conquered the Black civilizations of China, Japan, and South east Asia.
YET, the ONLY examples (that I know of) of derogatory racial remarks is the very few in the Rig Veda of India, calling the original Black people swarthy, dusky, and Black, and the Sumerians calling the Gutians "Monkey faced".
Now you know from personal experience, when somebody just gets their foot stepped on, a stream of racial epithet is likely to follow. Yet White people would have us believe that from (the White invasion of Europe, about 1,200 B.C. to the The first Turkish dynasty in Egypt in 868 A.D.) over 2,000 years of Wars with Black people, not one person wrote or inscribed some racial epithet against Black, White, or Mongol - NO WAY!!!
So what does it all mean? Simple, if we were to see that kind of material, we would immediately be able to deduce what actually happened, and who did what to whom. Plus, all of those questions of race would be resolved. No way they want us to do that!Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
) , his short afro is a hairstyle typical of Egyptian art.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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