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He could very well be a mix of red and blk ancient or modern His most distant ancestor could have been this guy or it could have been more recent and even related to her That's how it usually starts ancient or modern Gaspar Yanga - National Hero & Leader of Afro-Mexicans in Veracruz, Mexico Gaspar Yanga, believed to be part of the royal family of Gabon, a country in west-central Africa, was taken by the Spaniards to Veracruz, Mexico as a slave to work on a sugar plantation during the Spanish colonial rule. The cruelty of the slave masters included using chains on their slaves to prevent slaves from running away. Yanga, however, led a bloody slave revolt in the sugar fields in 1570 and fled into the lowlands of Veracruz where he founded a maroon community, or palenque, of ex-slaves, both Black and indigenous. This newly established small town of fugitive slaves called “Yangans” grew to more than 500 people. Their resources were limited so they often raided Spanish caravans for food and supplies. Communication with nearby runaway slaves and Indians was strong and the Yangans were able to live freely for about 30 years. http://thelatinalens.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/black-history-month-a-latino-connection/Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Osirion I will post this again in case you missed it or skimmed over it. Columbus
according to Columbus's own writings,
Some of these Africans must have made it to the Americas, because there were sightings that indicated their presence in the New World. Columbus himself reported that the American Indians of Hispaniola had told him that "there had come to Hispaniola people who have the tops of their spears made of a metal which they call quanin, of which he had sent samples to the Sovereigns to have them assayed, when it was found that of 32 parts, 18 were gold, six of silver and eight of copper." These samples were sent back to Spain on a mail boat, and the proportion was found to be identical to what was being forged in African Guinea
Osirion
quote:Interestingly the Black person depicted in this picture seems to have a copper head spear? But I found the beard to be the most tell tale sign of West African contact with these Mesoamericans pre-Columbus.
This is not accurate. This quote is probably taken from Van Sertima who used as 1904 English translation by Thatcher of a report by De las Casas (not Columbus himself) instead of a more accurate one by Morison in 1963. In any case, neither Columbus, de las Casas, nor Thatcher wrote
quote:These samples were sent back to Spain on a mail boat, and the proportion was found to be identical to what was being forged in African Guinea
. This phrase was added by Van Sertima.
Second, guanin is an Arawak word NOT an African word. Third, gold, copper, silver alloys, in a variety of proportions, had ben made in South America for over a thousand years.
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Osirion I will post this again in case you missed it or skimmed over it. Columbus
according to Columbus's own writings,
Some of these Africans must have made it to the Americas, because there were sightings that indicated their presence in the New World. Columbus himself reported that the American Indians of Hispaniola had told him that "there had come to Hispaniola people who have the tops of their spears made of a metal which they call quanin, of which he had sent samples to the Sovereigns to have them assayed, when it was found that of 32 parts, 18 were gold, six of silver and eight of copper." These samples were sent back to Spain on a mail boat, and the proportion was found to be identical to what was being forged in African Guinea
Osirion
quote:Interestingly the Black person depicted in this picture seems to have a copper head spear? But I found the beard to be the most tell tale sign of West African contact with these Mesoamericans pre-Columbus.
This is not accurate. This quote is probably taken from Van Sertima who used as 1904 English translation by Thatcher of a report by De las Casas (not Columbus himself) instead of a more accurate one by Morison in 1963. In any case, neither Columbus, de las Casas, nor Thatcher wrote
quote:These samples were sent back to Spain on a mail boat, and the proportion was found to be identical to what was being forged in African Guinea
. This phrase was added by Van Sertima.
Second, guanin is an Arawak word NOT an African word. Third, gold, copper, silver alloys, in a variety of proportions, had ben made in South America for over a thousand years.
Minor contact with West Africa is quite reasonable. Doesn't mean Black Africans did anything for the natives. But Black Africans did have the ability to navigate the Atlantic.
So a bearded depiction of a Black man with a copper headed spear should not be dismissed easily.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Osirion I will post this again in case you missed it or skimmed over it. Columbus
according to Columbus's own writings,
Some of these Africans must have made it to the Americas, because there were sightings that indicated their presence in the New World. Columbus himself reported that the American Indians of Hispaniola had told him that "there had come to Hispaniola people who have the tops of their spears made of a metal which they call quanin, of which he had sent samples to the Sovereigns to have them assayed, when it was found that of 32 parts, 18 were gold, six of silver and eight of copper." These samples were sent back to Spain on a mail boat, and the proportion was found to be identical to what was being forged in African Guinea
Osirion
quote:Interestingly the Black person depicted in this picture seems to have a copper head spear? But I found the beard to be the most tell tale sign of West African contact with these Mesoamericans pre-Columbus.
Yes I agree, its unmistakable what is occurring in that picture. Clearly contact with a West African person with a metalic tipped spear.
But my point is just the more reinforced, the Mesoamericans never adopted metallurgy. No cultural diffusion and the Black Africans were either assimilated or annihilation. Though my father, who is a missionary, tells me he discovered a group of Africans that he believes are indigenous Black Africans in Honduras that may have come over during the Golden Age of the Moors. Their cultural practices date back to that period.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: Black Caucasoids are simply Black people that have facial features that we normally think of as Caucasian. Common in the Sahel and East Africa
You conclude that these facial features you deem as Caucasian are common in those regions based on what?
Empirical evidence - I have been to these places as the son of a missionary. I have seen most of Africa.
I believe many people would refer to these people as Hamitic but that is quite false. In terms of Hebrew definition of race, these people would be considered Amazigh. Hamitic people are all the African people plus Southern Indians, Polynesian, Melanesians, Australians, and some South East Asians. According to Hebrew legends, the Amazigh are a mixture of a Hamitic lineage with a Semitic one since the time of the Tower of Bable. There are many different Hamites with Canaanites representing the more Bantu like which is supported by Natufian finds which clearly indicate a Bantu phenotype present in SW Asia but more specifically at the site of Jericho itself.
I could also say i've had my share of considerable empirical evidence as well. Which begs the question of what you mean by Caucasian features?
I'm aware of the Negroid attribution given to describe pre-existing Levantine populations and their clear link to Sub Sahara Africa as noted by Brace et al. Wouldn't East Africans be Cushitic as opposed to Amazigh being descendants of Phut according to the Hebrew definition?
Genetics seems to argue differently; but that is the mainstream position - East Africans are Cushitic. But I tend to think that there was significant migration from Southern Egypt into the Horn and thus these people are significantly more Amazigh than Cushitic.
Caucasian features are normally just narrow nasal features, thin lips, high nasal root, non-prognathism. Just a misnomer but it is a socially accepted description. You will find many Masai, Fulani, Igbo, etc, that have such features yet they are considered Black socially in our society.
quote:There are many different Hamites with Canaanites representing the more Bantu like which is supported by Natufian finds which clearly indicate a Bantu phenotype present in SW Asia but more specifically at the site of Jericho itself.
Where did these Bantu like people being represented in Pre-South West Asia come from, if East Africa comprise of indigenous populations with features you commonly acquaint with Caucasians?
quote:Genetics seems to argue differently;
Specifically, how so?
quote:Would you mind but that is the mainstream position - East Africans are Cushitic. But I tend to think that there was significant migration from Southern Egypt into the Horn and thus these people are significantly more Amazigh than Cushitic.
How does such a significant migration from Southern Egypt make them significantly more Amazigh than Cushitic? Can you explain to me why within the Afrasan phylum they speak a Cushitic dialect and not a Amazigh one?
quote:Caucasian features are normally just narrow nasal features, thin lips, high nasal root, non-prognathism. Just a misnomer but it is a socially accepted description. You will find many Masai, Fulani, Igbo, etc, that have such features yet they are considered Black socially in our society.
Narrow nasal features, thin lips, high nasal root, non-prognathism.
Let's accept this as your description and requirement to be considered Caucasian. How do explain the many who do not fall within the range of your objective perspective of said Caucasian features, why do you suppose the latter in comparison to the former of your description is not as common among the said peoples of the Sahel and East Africa?
Why do you suppose according to you and your empirical evidence we should position these groups in their rightful context as Black people with Caucasian features despite many others within the said groups exhibiting features not conforming to the Caucasian description?
Posts: 535 | From: From the Darkest of the Abyss | Registered: Apr 2010
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Caucasian features are normally just narrow nasal features, thin lips, high nasal root, non-prognathism. Just a misnomer but it is a socially accepted description. You will find many Masai, Fulani, Igbo, etc, that have such features yet they are considered Black socially in our society. [/QB]
If Caucasian is a misnomer in the contexts you are using it in you should use different terms.
The word "Caucasian" has the Caucus built in. This means originating somewhere not in Africa perhaps near to the Caucus mountain range that goes through Russia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Iran, Turkey.
I f this is what you intend as the origination of such features fine. If not it cause confusion to use these words.
Some have suggested smaller nostril openings are due to cold adaptation. -not sure
Posts: 43031 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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