No not really, hey you're right. It looks stringy straight.
However, funny is how you disregarded the colored image I showed. Smh. Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Further confirmation of the Mande origin of the Medes is haplogroup E3b. It is interesting to note that E3b is found in this area. The Manding speakers carry the E3b haplogroup.
Which area are you referring to Clyde?
Posts: 895 | Registered: Feb 2010
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you think all white people take credit for building the Empire State building? The average white person did not build the empire state building. The average white person is eating cheetos and watching football games while texting their friend on what beer to get at the 7 Eleven. Likwise your ass didn't build the pyramids, it was some people 4000 years ago and they are as dead as wood. Even people that have direct lineage to the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids. They're eating dates and picking their feet right now. stop it already
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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you think all white people take credit for building the Empire State building? The average white person did not build the empire state building. The average white person is eating cheetos and watching football games while texting their friend on what beer to get at the 7 Eleven. Likwise your ass didn't build the pyramids, it was some people 4000 years ago and they are as dead as wood. Even people that have direct lineage to the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids. They're eating dates and picking their feet right now. stop it already
What do you mean Lioness? Why do you always talk in riddles? Say what you want to say clearly and directly. What about the Elamites?
There is textual evidence supporting a relationship between the founders of Sumer, Elam and Dilmun. Col. Henry Rawlinson , used textual evidence to determine that a link existed between the Mesopotamians to their ancestors in Africa . Rawlinson called these people Kushites.
There is a positive relationship between crania from Africa and Eurasia. The archaeologist Marcel-Auguste Dieulafoy (Dieulafoy,2004) and Hanberry (1981) maintains that their was a Sub-Saharan strain in Persia . These researchers maintain that it was evident that an Ethiopian dynasty ruled Elam from a perusal of its statuary of the royal family and members of the army ( Dieulafoy, 2004; Dieulafoy, 2010;Hansberry,1981). Dieulafoy (2010 ) noted that the textual evidence and iconography make it clear that the Elamites were Africans, and part of the Kushite confederation .Dieulafoy (2010) made it clear that the Elamites at Susa were Sub-Saharan Africans.
Marcel Dieulafoy and M. de Quatrefages observed that the craniometrics of the ancient Elamites of Susa indicate that they were Sub-Saharan Africans or Negroes (Dieulafoy,2010). Ancient Sub-Saharan African skeletons have also been found in Mesopotamia (Tomczyk et al, 2010). The craniometric data indicates that continuity existed between ancient and medieval Sub-Saharan Africans in Mesopotamia (Ricault & Waelkens,2008).
Rawlinson,H. “ Letter read at the meeting of the Royal Asiatic Society on February 5, 1853”, The Athenaeum, (No. 1321) ,p.228.
Rawlinson,H. “Note on the early History of Babylonia”, Journal Royal Asiatic Soc., 15, 215-259.
Ricaut,F.X. and Waelkens.2008. Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzatine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements, Hum Biol, 80(5):535-564.
Tomczyk,J., Jedrychowska-Danska, K., Ploszaj,T & Witas H.W. (2010). Anthropological analysis of the osteological material from an ancient tomb (Early Bronze Age) from the middle Euphrates valley, Terqa (Syria) , International Journal of Osteoarchaeology, Retrieved 04/04/10 from (www.interscience.wiley.com)DOI:10.1002/oa.1150
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Henry Rawlinson used the Book of Genesis to find the identity of the Mesopotamia. He made it clear that the original inhabitants of Babylonia were represented by the name Nimrod and were represented by the family of Ham: Kushites, Egyptians and etc. This name came from the popularity among these people of hunting the leopard (Nimri). And as noted in earlier post the Egyptian and Nubian rulers always associated leopard spots with royalty, just as Siva is associated with the feline. As a result, Rawlinson used an African language Galla, to decipher the cuneiform writing.
The Sumerians and Elamites came from Africa, like the founders of the Indus Valley civilization. This is why the Elamite and Sumerian languages are closely related to African and Dravidian languages.
The Kushites when they migrated from Middle Africa to Asia continued to call themselves Kushites. This is most evident in place names and the names of gods. The Kassites, chief rulers of Iran occupied the central part of the Zagros. The Kassite god was called Kashshu, which was also the name of the people. The K-S-H, name element is also found in India. For example Kishkinthai, was the name applied to an ancient Dravidian kingdom in South India. Also it should be remembered that the Kings of Sumer, were often referred to as the " Kings of Kush".
The major Kushite tribe in Central Asia was called Kushana. The Kushan of China were styled Ta Yueh-ti or "the Great Lunar Race". Along the Salt Swamp, there was a state called Ku-Shih of Tibet. The city of K-san, was situated in the direction of Kushan, which was located in the Western part of the Gansu Province of China.
The Elamites later conquered Sumer. They called this line of Kings,he "King of Kish'. This term has affinity to the term Kush,that was given to the Kerma dynasty, founded by the C-Group people of Kush. It is interesting to note that the Elamite language, is closely related to the African languages including Egyptian and the Dravidian languages of India.
The most important Kushite colony in Iran was ancient Elam. The Elamites called their country KHATAM or KHALTAM (Ka-taam). The capital of Khaltam which we call Susa, was called KHUZ (Ka-u-uz) by the Aryans, NIME (Ni-may) by the people of Sumer, and KUSHSHI (Cush-she) by the Elamites.In the Akkadian inscriptions the Elamites were called GIZ-BAM (the land of the bow). The ancient Chinese or Bak tribesmen which dominate China today called the Elamites KASHTI. Moreover, in the Bible the Book of Jeremiah (xlxx,35), we read "bow of Elam". It is interesting to note that both Khaltam-ti and Kashti as the name for Elam, agrees with Ta-Seti, the ancient name for Nubia located in the Meroitic Sudan.
Further confirmation of the Mande origin of the Medes is haplogroup E3b. It is interesting to note that E3b is found in this area. The Manding speakers carry the E3b haplogroup.
Which area are you referring to Clyde?
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The area I am refering too is Iran, where the Medes lived.
The ancients were sure the Kushites had founded the Elamite civilization. According to Strabo, the Roman geographer the first Elamite colony of Susa, was founded by Tithonus, a King of Kush, and father of Memnon. Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Elam
The most important Kushite colony in Iran was Elam. The Elamites like other Africans practiced the custom of matrilineal descent.
The history of Elam is usually divided into three periods the Kings of Awan, Kings of Simashki and the Sukkalmah period. For over 300 years the Elamite Kings of Awan ruled Elam, and much of Mesopotamia.Much of this period is unknown. During the 3rd Millennium B.C., the Elamites and Su people (a term used for mountain people in the Western Zagros) sacked Ur. The King of the Dynasty of Simaskhi, led to Elamite rule in Sumer. The first king of the Simashki Dynasty was Girnamme.
In Sumer, the Elamites contributed nuch to Sumerian civilization. The Elamite Kings of Sumer were called the Kings of Kish.
After a Sumerian King of Kish pushed the Elamites out of Mesopotamia, Elam went into a period of chaos until around 2500 B.C., when King Peli became the ruler of Elam. After Peli, there were six other Elamite Kings until Elam was conquered by Sargon of Akkad.
Before the Sukkalmah period (c.1900-1500 B.C.) much of what we know about Elam comes from the Akkadian sources. This period is called the Sukkalmah period, because the rulers of Elam were called Sukkalmah ‘grand regent”. The Elamite title for king ws sunkir.
During the Sukkahmah Dynasty there was a tripartite system of rule. The Susa text indicate that there was a senior ruler called sukkalmah ‘grand regent’ of Elam and Shimashki, he was usually the brother of the sukkahmah, and a junior co-regent, entitled sukkal of Susa. This nephew was usually from the maternal side of the King’s family. Thus the sukkal of Susa was often called the ruhusak ‘sister’s son’
The first rulers of the Sukkamah period was Eabarat (=Eparti). He was followed by the ruhusak Addahushu, the “sukkal and magustrate of the people of Susa”. He is known mostly for his building of several temples and the erection of his “justic stele” outlining the laws of Elam .
The Elamites/Old Persians were probably descendants of the Mande people. This is obvious in the language and names of the Elamite Kings. I hope you remember the book Roots, the main character Kunte Kinte. His name is interesting because we have the following ruler during the Sukkalmah Dynasty: Kutur-Nahhunte I (c. 1752) who conquered southern Babylonia The name Kutur Nahhunte, would correspond to a popular Mande name Kunte among the Mande speaking people. The Elamite name Peli, is also popular among the Mande, in the form of Pe, this name was also common among the Olmec people of ancient Mexico.
It should also be noted that the Mande term for people is Si, this corresponds to the word Su, used to designate the mountain people of Elam. The Elamite term Su would correspond to the Mande termSi-u (the /u/ is the plural suffix in the Mande language).
By the 2nd Millennium B.C., a new more aggressive dynasty appeared in Elam. The Kings of this Dynasty called themselves ‘divine messenger, father and king’ of Susa and Anzan. One of the rulers of this Dynasty was Shutruk-Nahhunte. Shutruk-Nahhunte, like Kutur invaded Mesopotamia and took Babylon around 1160B.C.
After Kutur took Babylon, the Elamites ruled Babylon until Hammurabi defeated the Elamite King Rin-Sin. Later the Elamites were driven from Larsa and other Sumerian cities back to the Susiana plains.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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There is textual evidence supporting a relationship between the founders of Sumer, Elam and Dilmun. Col. Henry Rawlinson , used textual evidence to determine that a link existed between the Mesopotamians to their ancestors in Africa . Rawlinson called these people Kushites.
There is a positive relationship between crania from Africa and Eurasia. The archaeologist Marcel-Auguste Dieulafoy (Dieulafoy,2004) and Hanberry (1981) maintains that their was a Sub-Saharan strain in Persia . These researchers maintain that it was evident that an Ethiopian dynasty ruled Elam from a perusal of its statuary of the royal family and members of the army ( Dieulafoy, 2004; Dieulafoy, 2010;Hansberry,1981). Dieulafoy (2010 ) noted that the textual evidence and iconography make it clear that the Elamites were Africans, and part of the Kushite confederation .Dieulafoy (2010) made it clear that the Elamites at Susa were Sub-Saharan Africans.
Marcel Dieulafoy and M. de Quatrefages observed that the craniometrics of the ancient Elamites of Susa indicate that they were Sub-Saharan Africans or Negroes (Dieulafoy,2010). Ancient Sub-Saharan African skeletons have also been found in Mesopotamia (Tomczyk et al, 2010). The craniometric data indicates that continuity existed between ancient and medieval Sub-Saharan Africans in Mesopotamia (Ricault & Waelkens,2008).
Rawlinson,H. “ Letter read at the meeting of the Royal Asiatic Society on February 5, 1853”, The Athenaeum, (No. 1321) ,p.228.
Rawlinson,H. “Note on the early History of Babylonia”, Journal Royal Asiatic Soc., 15, 215-259.
Ricaut,F.X. and Waelkens.2008. Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzatine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements, Hum Biol, 80(5):535-564.
Tomczyk,J., Jedrychowska-Danska, K., Ploszaj,T & Witas H.W. (2010). Anthropological analysis of the osteological material from an ancient tomb (Early Bronze Age) from the middle Euphrates valley, Terqa (Syria) , International Journal of Osteoarchaeology, Retrieved 04/04/10 from (www.interscience.wiley.com)DOI:10.1002/oa.1150
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But Clyde, why couldn't they have just been dark-skinned and kinky-haired, but not from what is called "Africa"? This is a problem when it's assumed that anyone dark-skinned and kinky-haired is from the area that is called "Africa". Do you agree?
Posts: 895 | Registered: Feb 2010
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There is textual evidence supporting a relationship between the founders of Sumer, Elam and Dilmun. Col. Henry Rawlinson , used textual evidence to determine that a link existed between the Mesopotamians to their ancestors in Africa . Rawlinson called these people Kushites.
There is a positive relationship between crania from Africa and Eurasia. The archaeologist Marcel-Auguste Dieulafoy (Dieulafoy,2004) and Hanberry (1981) maintains that their was a Sub-Saharan strain in Persia . These researchers maintain that it was evident that an Ethiopian dynasty ruled Elam from a perusal of its statuary of the royal family and members of the army ( Dieulafoy, 2004; Dieulafoy, 2010;Hansberry,1981). Dieulafoy (2010 ) noted that the textual evidence and iconography make it clear that the Elamites were Africans, and part of the Kushite confederation .Dieulafoy (2010) made it clear that the Elamites at Susa were Sub-Saharan Africans.
Marcel Dieulafoy and M. de Quatrefages observed that the craniometrics of the ancient Elamites of Susa indicate that they were Sub-Saharan Africans or Negroes (Dieulafoy,2010). Ancient Sub-Saharan African skeletons have also been found in Mesopotamia (Tomczyk et al, 2010). The craniometric data indicates that continuity existed between ancient and medieval Sub-Saharan Africans in Mesopotamia (Ricault & Waelkens,2008).
Rawlinson,H. “ Letter read at the meeting of the Royal Asiatic Society on February 5, 1853”, The Athenaeum, (No. 1321) ,p.228.
Rawlinson,H. “Note on the early History of Babylonia”, Journal Royal Asiatic Soc., 15, 215-259.
Ricaut,F.X. and Waelkens.2008. Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzatine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements, Hum Biol, 80(5):535-564.
Tomczyk,J., Jedrychowska-Danska, K., Ploszaj,T & Witas H.W. (2010). Anthropological analysis of the osteological material from an ancient tomb (Early Bronze Age) from the middle Euphrates valley, Terqa (Syria) , International Journal of Osteoarchaeology, Retrieved 04/04/10 from (www.interscience.wiley.com)DOI:10.1002/oa.1150
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But Clyde, why couldn't they have just been dark-skinned and kinky-haired, but not from what is called "Africa"? This is a problem when it's assumed that anyone dark-skinned and kinky-haired is from the area that is called "Africa". Do you agree?
You have not read the post. If you had read the post you would see that the Classical writers plus the Bible claim that the Elamites were Kushites and that they came from Africa.
quote:
The ancients were sure the Kushites had founded the Elamite civilization. According to Strabo, the Roman geographer the first Elamite colony of Susa, was founded by Tithonus, a King of Kush, and father of Memnon.Susa was a major Elamite city.
Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Kush and the Kushites came from Africa, it is appropriate to call them African.
LOL. Euronuts are such big liars. There has always been Blacks in Iran.
There may have been Dravidian/Veddoid types in Iran long ago. But your images are clearly Black Africans would have arrived in Iran as a result of East African slave trade. That is documented.
-------------------- In the vast pasture of life you're bound to step in some truth. Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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LOL. Euronuts are such big liars. There has always been Blacks in Iran.
There may have been Dravidian/Veddoid types in Iran long ago. But your images are clearly Black Africans would have arrived in Iran as a result of East African slave trade. That is documented.
LOL. The fact the Elamites came from Africa is also documented.
Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Memnon was a Kushite.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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LOL. Euronuts are such big liars. There has always been Blacks in Iran.
There may have been Dravidian/Veddoid types in Iran long ago. But your images are clearly Black Africans would have arrived in Iran as a result of East African slave trade. That is documented.
LOL. The fact the Elamites came from Africa is also documented.
Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Memnon was a Kushite.
Lol right back at you. Strabo was basing his nonsense on the habit of some early Greek writers to consufe Kassite with Kushite. In fact for the longest time for many Greeks Aethiopia was a mythical place.
Again you are incorrect, and you are confusing the mythical Aethiopia with the historical one. They were two different entities. Please study the Greek mythical genealogy of Memnon and how he is portrayed --> originally <---, not as a 'black' person but as a light skinned Caucasian. His parents weren't Africans, he was the son of the Greek Goddess Eos and the ---> Trojan <--- king Tithonus, unless people are now going to start dubiously telling us incorrectly that Trojans were 'black skinned Africans' too when they are never portrayed as such. You ought to realize that the ORIGINAL mythical Ethiopia was not in sub-saharan Africa. The original story has it in the Near East, another in the Caucasus mountains and later accounts place it in N. Africa. Greeks never claimed the Colchis was a 'black culture'. The FIRST 'source' to make such a claim was the Egyptian Manetho during Hellenstic times, it was ---> HE <--- who attributes this to Herodotus. Early Herodotus writings don't make any such claims about the Colchis region and there isn't any physical evidence from the Caucasus mountains to support any such conquests. Sesotris' conquest of Colchis is based upon Manetho's claims only.
In any case, the best way for you to lend credit to your theory is to demonstrate solid genetic and linguistic parallels between Iran and Ethiopia, not hearsay from clueless classical writers.
These Iranian women find your theories peculiarly funny.
Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by melchior7: In any case, the best way for you to lend credit to your theory is to demonstrate solid genetic and linguistic parallels between Iran and Ethiopia, not hearsay from clueless classical writers.
Here is the linguitic evidence that relate the Elamites to African people. These languages also share many cognate terms.
ENGLISH SUMERIAN MANDING TAMIL chief kal,kala keletigi gasa(n) field gan ga kalan eye(l) igi akki eye(2) ini,en nya kan arrow kak kala kakam granary kur k'urk'ur kutir road sila sila caalai father pap pa appan lord manus mansa mannan male mu moko maakkal to recite sid siti to buy sa sa cel grain se se seed gen ge 'to sprout'
═════════════════════════λ 2;═════════════════════════ 552;═════════════ English Dravidian Manding top, summit kona kun one ondu do two pattu ta four naal nani person uki moko fish(filet) bale bake skin uri wuru,guru house lon lu head kuku ku tongue na ne blacksmith inumu numu foot karal koro liver karal kura mud burada boro, buru give idu di stone kaly kulu cloud kaar ka, kaba fire ti ta mountain kunru kuru elder,grandfather maama maamaa ═════════════════════════λ 2;═════════════════════════ 552;═════════════ ELAMITE ENGLISH MANDING ak and ka turna know, awaken kuna, fori sahri death sa murta to erect kura mar from a place ma li give di tela to go tara Nap God Nala tus habitation du husu illomened dyugu kuta lance keru lan,lani silver dala ki one killi ta place ta kik sky,heaven ka sari sculpter se ufat steel tuufa tela to go ta khali great ka dau help deema ko king,lord ka na say na para to watch fereke
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: In any case, the best way for you to lend credit to your theory is to demonstrate solid genetic and linguistic parallels between Iran and Ethiopia, not hearsay from clueless classical writers.
Here is the linguitic evidence that relate the Elamites to African people. These languages also share many cognate terms.
ENGLISH SUMERIAN MANDING TAMIL chief kal,kala keletigi gasa(n) field gan ga kalan eye(l) igi akki eye(2) ini,en nya kan arrow kak kala kakam granary kur k'urk'ur kutir road sila sila caalai father pap pa appan lord manus mansa mannan male mu moko maakkal to recite sid siti to buy sa sa cel grain se se seed gen ge 'to sprout'
═════════════════════════λ 2;═════════════════════════ 552;═════════════ English Dravidian Manding top, summit kona kun one ondu do two pattu ta four naal nani person uki moko fish(filet) bale bake skin uri wuru,guru house lon lu head kuku ku tongue na ne blacksmith inumu numu foot karal koro liver karal kura mud burada boro, buru give idu di stone kaly kulu cloud kaar ka, kaba fire ti ta mountain kunru kuru elder,grandfather maama maamaa ═════════════════════════λ 2;═════════════════════════ 552;═════════════ ELAMITE ENGLISH MANDING ak and ka turna know, awaken kuna, fori sahri death sa murta to erect kura mar from a place ma li give di tela to go tara Nap God Nala tus habitation du husu illomened dyugu kuta lance keru lan,lani silver dala ki one killi ta place ta kik sky,heaven ka sari sculpter se ufat steel tuufa tela to go ta khali great ka dau help deema ko king,lord ka na say na para to watch fereke
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Yes, I am familiar with your comparison between Manding and Dravidian, and the theory with Dravidian ultimately originating out of the Sahara which I believe is not without merit. However this would have occurred a few thousand years before the tale of mythical Memnon. Besides if you buy into the claim that Memnon was literally Ethiopian, shouldn't you be looking for parallels with Cushitic or Omotic languages instead?
Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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Further confirmation of the Mande origin of the Medes is haplogroup E3b. It is interesting to note that E3b is found in this area. The Manding speakers carry the E3b haplogroup.
Which area are you referring to Clyde?
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The area I am refering too is Iran, where the Medes lived.
The ancients were sure the Kushites had founded the Elamite civilization. According to Strabo, the Roman geographer the first Elamite colony of Susa, was founded by Tithonus, a King of Kush, and father of Memnon. Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Elam
The most important Kushite colony in Iran was Elam. The Elamites like other Africans practiced the custom of matrilineal descent.
The history of Elam is usually divided into three periods the Kings of Awan, Kings of Simashki and the Sukkalmah period. For over 300 years the Elamite Kings of Awan ruled Elam, and much of Mesopotamia.Much of this period is unknown. During the 3rd Millennium B.C., the Elamites and Su people (a term used for mountain people in the Western Zagros) sacked Ur. The King of the Dynasty of Simaskhi, led to Elamite rule in Sumer. The first king of the Simashki Dynasty was Girnamme.
In Sumer, the Elamites contributed nuch to Sumerian civilization. The Elamite Kings of Sumer were called the Kings of Kish.
After a Sumerian King of Kish pushed the Elamites out of Mesopotamia, Elam went into a period of chaos until around 2500 B.C., when King Peli became the ruler of Elam. After Peli, there were six other Elamite Kings until Elam was conquered by Sargon of Akkad.
Before the Sukkalmah period (c.1900-1500 B.C.) much of what we know about Elam comes from the Akkadian sources. This period is called the Sukkalmah period, because the rulers of Elam were called Sukkalmah ‘grand regent”. The Elamite title for king ws sunkir.
During the Sukkahmah Dynasty there was a tripartite system of rule. The Susa text indicate that there was a senior ruler called sukkalmah ‘grand regent’ of Elam and Shimashki, he was usually the brother of the sukkahmah, and a junior co-regent, entitled sukkal of Susa. This nephew was usually from the maternal side of the King’s family. Thus the sukkal of Susa was often called the ruhusak ‘sister’s son’
The first rulers of the Sukkamah period was Eabarat (=Eparti). He was followed by the ruhusak Addahushu, the “sukkal and magustrate of the people of Susa”. He is known mostly for his building of several temples and the erection of his “justic stele” outlining the laws of Elam .
The Elamites/Old Persians were probably descendants of the Mande people. This is obvious in the language and names of the Elamite Kings. I hope you remember the book Roots, the main character Kunte Kinte. His name is interesting because we have the following ruler during the Sukkalmah Dynasty: Kutur-Nahhunte I (c. 1752) who conquered southern Babylonia The name Kutur Nahhunte, would correspond to a popular Mande name Kunte among the Mande speaking people. The Elamite name Peli, is also popular among the Mande, in the form of Pe, this name was also common among the Olmec people of ancient Mexico.
It should also be noted that the Mande term for people is Si, this corresponds to the word Su, used to designate the mountain people of Elam. The Elamite term Su would correspond to the Mande termSi-u (the /u/ is the plural suffix in the Mande language).
By the 2nd Millennium B.C., a new more aggressive dynasty appeared in Elam. The Kings of this Dynasty called themselves ‘divine messenger, father and king’ of Susa and Anzan. One of the rulers of this Dynasty was Shutruk-Nahhunte. Shutruk-Nahhunte, like Kutur invaded Mesopotamia and took Babylon around 1160B.C.
After Kutur took Babylon, the Elamites ruled Babylon until Hammurabi defeated the Elamite King Rin-Sin. Later the Elamites were driven from Larsa and other Sumerian cities back to the Susiana plains.
Mende people are one of the purest west african. what a complete bullshit.
If its bull--why don't you present counter evidence disputng these linguistic facts?
LOL.You are just like the Euronuts instead of providing counter evidence you make a general comment without foundation.
You are an ignorant fool. A color struck troll that desires to be "white"/European and everytime you look in the mirror you hate yourself .
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Trying to say we are Turks? LOL. Turks came from Mongolia and Siberia they invaded Central Asia and then Iran and Turkey. Their languages are under the mongoloid family branch. Most of the Turks in West Asia are Turkified natives. Even the Cenral Asian Turks are only partialy mongoloid, just look at Turkmenistan.
Why don't all the Iranian speaking people speak a Turkic language? why only a few who were Turkified and call themselves Turks. In Iran, Persian is only one of the Iranian languages, their is Kurdish,Gilak,Mazdarani,Talysh,Gorani,Lori,Balochi. For some reason why did all these groups keep their language and identity from the ancient times?
Also those pictures are of Qajars, the Qajars were Turkic family, but they were mostly Turkified Azaris, who were speaking a Iranian langauge like all the other groups. Even the name Azari is persian in origin.
thare are several mistakes on way you thinking. first of all, according to history of humankind there were lots of migrations which cause relationships and displacements. when a guest nation forces to the home nation to go some where it is obvious the guest will use the old name of the land or rename the land. so you should be aware on that the name of the location or land may not be the name of the nation itself.as an example azerbaycan is the name of the land so now we call them azeri but this gives no clue about what bthe real situation was. second, if any nation change the language by living together with the others means the home one will also have a new genetics which means they are not the old one anymore. people all around the world who are speaking in a turic languages are turk by language, culture and ofcourse in genetics. however there is no nation exist like purely turks and the reason is as a cultural turks have never been racist and unlikely the armenian sayings turks never destroy a foreign nation. after all of them i can easily say that culture always strong than the genetics...
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: If its bull--why don't you present counter evidence disputng these linguistic facts?
LOL.You are just like the Euronuts instead of providing counter evidence you make a general comment without foundation.
You are an ignorant fool. A color struck troll that desires to be "white"/European and everytime you look in the mirror you hate yourself .
.
You are THE one who makes suspected claims. You are the one who must convince us. The problem is that you Afroyanks never show any scientific evidences. its clear, its seems like you HATE SCIENCE.
I have absolutely no desire to be white/european. im absolutely proud [unlike you] of my ancestors who contributed to the Egyptian civilization, to the nubian civilization , and to the moorish empire. [/QB]
LOL. You have been on this site and fail to see the Egyptians came from Nubia.
If you deny your negro origin you are not related to the Egyptians, Nubia was the homeland of the negro. It was from here that the Egyptians arose.
To deny this reality proves you hate the negro and must want to be white.
posted
So I guess shahansha aryamehr and his family who all have curly hair are all black? Posts: 28 | From: Australia | Registered: Aug 2011
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you think all white people take credit for building the Empire State building? The average white person did not build the empire state building. The average white person is eating cheetos and watching football games while texting their friend on what beer to get at the 7 Eleven. Likwise your ass didn't build the pyramids, it was some people 4000 years ago and they are as dead as wood. Even people that have direct lineage to the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids. They're eating dates and picking their feet right now. stop it already
You are basing this on what, your imagination? You foolish people want to imagine you know the truth of history with out the slightest bit of research. It boggles my mind how absolutly uninformed and willfully stupid some of you are.
There are still blacks in Iran today and NO they are not the result of slavery as there is no proof of that. You hit middle Iran people get black and get darker the further south you go. And they look completely unmixed in the Islands in the south
If you watch a movie called "The Ballot Box" this will give you a good idea of the different peoples of present day Iran. They head south from Tehran in this film. As they get further south you start to see the color go from white, to tan to black and then they hit the Islands in the Gulf and you will think you are in Nigeria.
As for what the "average white person is doing" what does that have to do with anything? If you are black (which I doubt) your thinking is the result of you having a slave culture. You people do not respect your forefathers and what they did for you to be here. In Africa your forefathers are not forgotten and they never should be. European's even today hold up their forefathers as they talk about with pride Rome, Greece and they exemplify their heros. As should those of the African diaspora. Our forefathers did great things, and know nothings like yourself could never negate that fact.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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posted
^^^^ There is a difference between saying there were black aboriginal people in places like Elam and Mesopotamia. It is another matter to claim "The Persians were black" and spam a bunch of images and bogus afrocentric garbage.
The blacks in Elam and Persia are well known and well documented, however the Persians(Achemenids) and many of the tribes the conquerd were NOT Black from the literature and depictions
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^^ There is a difference between saying there were black aboriginal people in places like Elam and Mesopotamia. It is another matter to claim "The Persians were black" and spam a bunch of images and bogus afrocentric garbage.
The blacks in Elam and Persia are well known and well documented, however the Persians(Achemenids) and many of the tribes the conquerd were NOT Black from the literature and depictions
From the time of the early Greek literary sources until the Hellenistic period Ethiopia was idealized by the Greeks, who considered the Ethiopians to be a semi-mythological people. Memnon, the ruler of the Homeric Ethiopians, they identified with the Great Persian King (cf. Georges, pp. 48f., 68f., 267 n. 1) and even at a time when the Greeks had come to know the Persians a little better, they continued to link the two Eastern peoples: e.g., for Herodotus Achaemenid Susa remained the Memno‚neion a‚sty (5.54, 2).
According to Herodotus the Ethiopians, clad in leopard or lion skins, wearing long bows and painted with vermilion and chalk provided one of the most colorful, as well as warlike, contingents in the army with which Xerxes invaded Greece in 480-79 B.C. (Herodotus, 7.69, 2; cf. also Head, p. 53. For a description of Kushites on Greek pottery cf. Morkot, pp. 328-30). A delegation from the Ethiopians is included in the lists of Arrian (7.15, 4-5) and Diodorus (17.113, 1-2) amongst those which awaited Alexander on his return to Babylon in the spring of 323 B.C.
Bibliography (for cited references not given in detail, see "Short References"):
F. de Blois, "The 'Four Great Kingdoms' in the Manichaean Kephalaia," in P.O. Scholz, ed., Orbis Aethiopicus: Studia in honorem Stanislaus Chojnacki natali septuagesimo quinto dicata, septuagesimo septimo oblata, Albstadt, Germay, 1992, pp. 221-30 (esp. pp. 227-29 on the Ethiopians in Manichean literature).
C. E. Bosworth, "Iran and the Arabs before Islam," Camb. Hist. Iran III/1 (1983), pp. 593-612.
R.N. Frye, "The political history of Iran under the Sasanians," Camb. Hist. Iran III/1 (1983), pp. 116-80.
P. Georges, Barbarian Asia and the Greek Experience: From the Archaic Period to the Age of Xenophon, Baltimore and London, 1994.
D. Head, The Achaemenid Persian Army, Stockport, England, 1992.
J. Leroy, "Les 'Éthiopiens' de Perse‚polis," Annales d'Éthiopie 5, 1963, pp. 293-95.
R. Morkot, "Nubia and Achaemenid Persia: Sources and Problems," in H. Sancisi-Weerdenburg and A. Kuhrt, eds., Achaemenid History VI. Asia Minor and Egypt: Old Cultures in a New Empire, Leiden, 1991, pp. 321-36.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Here is how the Greeks depicted Various Achemenid Kings.
An African and a Persian..
but you can do like Mike and claim they are fake and "Da Evil" white man be aletering them...
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: [From the time of the early Greek literary sources until the Hellenistic period Ethiopia was idealized by the Greeks, who considered the Ethiopians to be a semi-mythological people. Memnon, the ruler of the Homeric Ethiopians, they identified with the Great Persian King (cf. Georges, pp. 48f., 68f., 267 n. 1) and even at a time when the Greeks had come to know the Persians a little better, they continued to link the two Eastern peoples: e.g., for Herodotus Achaemenid Susa remained the Memno‚neion a‚sty (5.54, 2).
According to Herodotus the Ethiopians, clad in leopard or lion skins, wearing long bows and painted with vermilion and chalk provided one of the most colorful, as well as warlike, contingents in the army with which Xerxes invaded Greece in 480-79 B.C. (Herodotus, 7.69, 2; cf. also Head, p. 53. For a description of Kushites on Greek pottery cf. Morkot, pp. 328-30). A delegation from the Ethiopians is included in the lists of Arrian (7.15, 4-5) and Diodorus (17.113, 1-2) amongst those which awaited Alexander on his return to Babylon in the spring of 323 B.C.
Bibliography (for cited references not given in detail, see "Short References"):
F. de Blois, "The 'Four Great Kingdoms' in the Manichaean Kephalaia," in P.O. Scholz, ed., Orbis Aethiopicus: Studia in honorem Stanislaus Chojnacki natali septuagesimo quinto dicata, septuagesimo septimo oblata, Albstadt, Germay, 1992, pp. 221-30 (esp. pp. 227-29 on the Ethiopians in Manichean literature).
C. E. Bosworth, "Iran and the Arabs before Islam," Camb. Hist. Iran III/1 (1983), pp. 593-612.
R.N. Frye, "The political history of Iran under the Sasanians," Camb. Hist. Iran III/1 (1983), pp. 116-80.
P. Georges, Barbarian Asia and the Greek Experience: From the Archaic Period to the Age of Xenophon, Baltimore and London, 1994.
D. Head, The Achaemenid Persian Army, Stockport, England, 1992.
J. Leroy, "Les 'Éthiopiens' de Perse‚polis," Annales d'Éthiopie 5, 1963, pp. 293-95.
R. Morkot, "Nubia and Achaemenid Persia: Sources and Problems," in H. Sancisi-Weerdenburg and A. Kuhrt, eds., Achaemenid History VI. Asia Minor and Egypt: Old Cultures in a New Empire, Leiden, 1991, pp. 321-36.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
This is a non Seqitur fallacy, If the Persians themselves depicted black skinned native of Elam as being the Spearmen in their armies then its obvious the Aechemnids had blacks in their army, however this one image does not prove the "Persians were black"..
I guess you have'nt learned from my previous beatdowns I gave you on this Subject..
BTW something for you to contemplate..
One is a Kushite the other is a Persian..
beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed. Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) 1st Century A.D
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: This is a non Seqitur fallacy, If the Persians themselves depicted black skinned native of Elam as being the Spearmen in their armies then its obvious the Aechemnids had blacks in their army, however this one image does not prove the "Persians were black"..
I guess you have'nt learned from my previous beatdowns I gave you on this Subject..
BTW something for you to contemplate..
One is a Kushite the other is a Persian..
beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed. Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) 1st Century A.D
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Do you understand how these statements of yours make you seem as if your ability to approach a subject in an intelligent/rational manner is deficient? Everything is context my man. As I said, at least half of Iran to this very day is still black or mulatto. So blacks have always been there since the very beginning, and your two pictures doesn’t prove otherwise. Nor does it disprove the fact that blacks played a major role in that society. Were they the kings and queens? I have no idea, haven’t really looked into that bit, and from the looks of it, outside of you going to flickr and google, you haven’t either. But from the writings of Diop and Rawlinson (the only two who I have read on the subject) they did play major roles; otherwise they wouldn’t have been depicted. When you want to prove your point, flickr pictures and pictures picked up off of Google isn’t going to help your case. Try doing real research, read these hard cover things with paper in between them called books. They are generally housed in these huge buildings, with few people inside them, called libraries. You should find your way to one and actually read a book, it never killed anyone. Your approach is as juvenile as the other people who pick pictures of Greeks and romans from Lower Egypt and say (see, these pictures dating to 200bc show that the ancient Egyptians were white) it’s rather sophomoric and shows that you/them have an inability to approach a subject in an intellectual manner. As I said before, it really is about context, without understanding the history as well as the peopling of these areas, your pictures mean nothing. The best way to put a subject to bed is with hard facts. Bring studies, and ancient accounts of people who were actually there. You can do that, and then no one can argue with you. Well, they could, but they would make themselves seem rather silly. You posting pictures of supposed people of that ancient kingdom, with your dim witted assessment of what they mean, will not win the argument. Also, when speaking of “Persians” as you quoted in one of your subsequent post, do you mean the Fars people? That is a totally different subject all together. Again, context, context, context. You don’t know enough about this subject to have a well-informed/intelligent conversations. You should convene, research (that’s more than a day of googling half assed information to prove your point), THEN come and argue your case.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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posted
^ And what is the point of your picture spam, lyinass? One is a modern day black Arab from God knows where in or around Arabia and the Levant and the other is an Elamite of ancient Iran.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Another important thing to note is that the Greeks distinguished between Persian as nationality vs. Persian as ethnicity. By nationality anyone living under the Persian empire regardless of ethnicity was 'Persian' however the Greeks still distinguished a Persian 'race' or ethnicity. Interestingly enough ethnic Persians were described as being fairer in complexion than the Greeks themselves with descriptions of Persian white skin under their cloaks which contrasted to their own darker tanned skins.
As for the whole argument of curly hair. Here is a Scythian cloth from Pazyryk Russia between Kazakhstan and Mongolia depicting a horseman.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
It doesn’t make sense. Why Africans built a civilization so far from Africa? Why there are no traces of blacks in Iran today? The very very very very few few few few blacks in Bandar-Abaas were only brought in by British navy as slaves recently. Beside, have a look at the location of the Egyptian civilization. Although it is in the African continent, it is located in close vicinity of other civilizations founded by the white people. It is well established fact that the “founders” of Egyptian civilizations were white and not black. If Africans were into building civilization, the whole Africa must be full of ancient mega monuments like those in south America (Or were they black too?). But that is not the case. I hope one day black come out of their inferiority complex and instead of claiming ownership for someone else work, they come up with their owns. I think you are making all African black look bad by these stupid claims.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Another important thing to note is that the Greeks distinguished between Persian as nationality vs. Persian as ethnicity. By nationality anyone living under the Persian empire regardless of ethnicity was 'Persian' however the Greeks still distinguished a Persian 'race' or ethnicity. Interestingly enough ethnic Persians were described as being fairer in complexion than the Greeks themselves with descriptions of Persian white skin under their cloaks which contrasted to their own darker tanned skins.
As for the whole argument of curly hair. Here is a Scythian cloth from Pazyryk Russia between Kazakhstan and Mongolia depicting a horseman.
Djehuti - Did you see my post yesterday deploring you current state of ignorance?
NO, the Greeks DID NOT describe the Persians as being lighter than them. That is an Albino lie perpetuated by ignorant White Ass worshiping Mongols
Under the title "White people" Antiquity and Middle Ages: Occasional physical description
Quote: "Xenophon describes the Ethiopians as Black, and the Persian troops as White, compared to the sun-tanned skin of Greek troops".
Of course - THAT IS A BLATANT LIE!
The Project Gutenberg Etext of Anabasis by Xenophon Translation by H. G. Dakyns
Xenophon the Athenian was born 431 B.C. He was a pupil of Socrates. He marched with the Spartans, and was exiled from Athens. Sparta gave him land and property in Scillus, where he lived for many years before having to move once more, to settle in Corinth. He died in 354 B.C. The Anabasis is his story of the march to Persia to aid Cyrus, who enlisted Greek help to try and take the throne from Artaxerxes, and the ensuing return of the Greeks, in which Xenophon played a leading role. This occurred between 401 B.C. and March 399 B.C.
Anabasis
IV
From Cerasus they continued the march, the same portion of the troops being conveyed by sea as before, and the rest marching by land. When they had reached the frontiers of the Mossynoecians they sent to him Timesitheus the Trapezuntine, who was the proxenos of the Mossynoecians, to inquire whether they were to pass through their territory as friends or foes.
[3] I.e. "chestnuts."
The Hellenes breakfasted and then started forward on their march, having first delivered the stronghold to their allies among the Mossynoecians. As for the other strongholds belonging to tribes allied with their foes, which they passed en route, the most accessible were either deserted by their inhabitants or gave in their adhesion 30 voluntarily. The following description will apply to the majority of them: the cities were on an average ten miles apart, some more, some less; but so elevated is the country and intersected by such deep clefts that if they chose to shout across to one another, their cries would be heard from one city to another. When, in the course of their march, they came upon a friendly population, these would entertain them with exhibitions of fatted children belonging to the wealthy classes, fed up on boiled chestnuts until they were as white as white can be, of skin plump and delicate, and very nearly as broad as they were long, with their backs variegated and their breasts tattooed with patterns of all sorts of flowers. They sought after the women in the Hellenic army, and would fain have laid with them openly in broad daylight, for that was their custom. The whole community, male and female alike, were fair-complexioned and white-skinned. It was agreed that this was the most barbaric and outlandish people that they had passed through on the whole expedition, and the furthest removed from the Hellenic customs, doing in a crowd precisely what other people would prefer to do in solitude, and when alone behaving exactly as others would behave in company, talking to themselves and laughing at their own expense, standing still and then again capering about, wherever they might chance to be, without rhyme or reason, as if their sole business were to show off to the rest of the world.
THE PROBLEM FOR WIKI!
Mossynoeci is a name that the Greeks of the Euxine Sea applied to the peoples of Pontus, the northern "ANATOLIAN" (Turkey) coast west of Trebizond. They were a thousand miles from Persia! Xenophon wasn't talking about Persians, he was talking about White SETTLERS IN ANATOLIA!
Writing soon after 430 BCE, Herodotus in Book 3 cites the Mossynoeci, along with the Moschoi, Tibareni, the Macrones and Mares as comprising the 19th satrapy established by Darius of Persia.
The Project Gutenberg Etext of Hellenica by Xenophon Translation by H. G. Dakyns
I.e. at Ephesus.
But, instead of marching straight into Caria, Agesilaus turned sharp off in the opposite direction towards Phrygia. Picking up various detachments of troops which met him on his march, he steadily advanced, laying cities prostrate before him, and by the unexpectedness of his attack reaping a golden harvest of spoil. As a rule the march was prosecuted safely; but not far from Dascylium his advanced guard of cavalry were pushing on towards a knoll to take a survery of the state of things in front B.C. 395. After this, at the first indication of spring, he collected the whole of his army at Ephesus. But the army needed training. With that object he proposed a series of prizes--prizes to the heavy infantry regiments, to be won by those who presented their men in the best condition; prizes for the cavalry regiments which could ride best; prizes for those divisions of peltasts and archers which proved most efficient in their respective duties. And now the gymnasiums were a sight to see, thronged as they were, one and all, with warriors stripping for exercise; or again, the hippodrome crowded with horses and riders performing their evolutions; or the javelin men and archers going through their peculiar drill. In fact, the whole city where he lay presented under his hands a spectacle not to be forgotten. The market-place literally teemed with horses, arms, and accoutrements of all sorts for sale. The bronze-worker, the carpenter, the smith, the leather-cutter, the painter and embosser, were all busily engaged in fabricating the implements of war; so that the city of Ephesus itself was fairly converted into a military workshop. It would have done a man's heart good to see those long lines of soldiers with Agesilaus at their head, as they stepped gaily be-garlanded from the gymnasiums to dedicate their wreaths to the goddess Artemis. Nor can I well conceive of elements more fraught with hope than were here combined. Here were reverence and piety towards Heaven; here practice in war and military training; here discipline with habitual obedience to authority. But contempt for one's enemy will infuse a kind of strength in battle. So the Spartan leader argued; and with a view to its production he ordered the quartermasters to put up the prisoners who had been captured by his foraging bands for auction, stripped naked; so that his Hellenic soldiery, as they looked at the white skins which had never been bared to sun and wind, the soft limbs unused to toil through constant riding in carriages, came to the conclusion that war with such adversaries would differ little from a fight with women. Dascylium (near modern day Ergili, Turkey)
posted
^Another White lie perpetuated by White Ass loving Mongols is the so-called "The Alexander Mosaic".
It actually has nothing to do with Alexander, Greeks, or Persians. It's about Roman Emperor Trajan fighting Parthians, who were NOT Persians, even though they ruled Persia for a while.
quote:It is well established fact that the “founders” of Egyptian civilizations were white and not black. If Africans were into building civilization, the whole Africa must be full of ancient mega monuments like those in south America
posted
So you find a sculpture that you think made your case whoopie fuking do!!..she in fact looked no different than some African from the horn, without going on a picture spam. where was the Kemetian land of the Gods located. Where was the 1st state what was it called. What is the significance of Nabta Platya. A group and C group culture why are they important. What language group did the ancient Kemetians belong to. What is a ws scepter where can you attest to it's earliest use.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Here are some of the pictures of the founders of Egyptian civilization, Narmer and kingscorpion. Look at all the three facial profiles and compare it to the david’s statute. Pay attention to their jaw position. Not a trace of black. Posts: 28 | From: Australia | Registered: Aug 2011
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quote:Originally posted by arman: It doesn’t make sense. Why Africans built a civilization so far from Africa? Why there are no traces of blacks in Iran today? The very very very very few few few few blacks in Bandar-Abaas were only brought in by British navy as slaves recently. Beside, have a look at the location of the Egyptian civilization. Although it is in the African continent, it is located in close vicinity of other civilizations founded by the white people. It is well established fact that the “founders” of Egyptian civilizations were white and not black. If Africans were into building civilization, the whole Africa must be full of ancient mega monuments like those in south America (Or were they black too?). But that is not the case. I hope one day black come out of their inferiority complex and instead of claiming ownership for someone else work, they come up with their owns. I think you are making all African black look bad by these stupid claims.
no traces of blacks in iran today? You can't be serious? Middle Iran is black and Mulatto to this very day and southern iran is almost completely black. what do you people do, dream this stuff up and then spew what your imagination told you?
Get a film called "the ballot box". It is a Irani made film and it talks about the voting process in Iran. They start of in Tehran and work their way to the south. When they hit the cost they then take a boat to the islands controlled by Iran. When you watch this film you will see once they get to about the middle of Iran people become Black or Mulatto.
as for the rest of of your comment, its to silly to address. oh and Saba7 bi Khayr, you seem to have not risen from your sleep today
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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posted
By the way, can any of you geniuses explain to me why the language of the Persians, who were blacks according to you, is categorized as indo-European (or Indo-Aryan to be more specific, thus the Aryan race)? Don’t tell me that you believe that Persian language is an African sub-branch.
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