posted
Let me clarify that I have virtually no administraition authority on Egyptsearch. The only power I have is to delete threads. The other moderators which have authority are the following: Oscar, sammy, Neal and Amr.
Recently a poster named Africanolmec started spamming this board with random posts. When I deleted his posts I got responses from one of the administrators named Oscar. Oscar has only 7 posts and randomly edits posts which belong to Madlib. This is rather curious considering that every time I send a request to Oscar about banning people he never responds. He does respond when the above mentioned posters get their threads deleted.
I speculate that since the other forums are dead that internal Egyptsearch management are trolling this board to create havoc. This means the racial posts, overexagerated Afrocentric claims and other are probably the products of Egyptsearch management.
This excludes Mike and Ironlion and MeinNarmer(Melanin King) because they actually produce original material and present a depth of knowledge of Afrocentrism above the rudiments of research.
However, the people who cut and past material may be connected to Egyptsearch management. Take this into consideration when responding to new posters.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Ausar why do you bother brother man,just become a regular poster until they pull the plug.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Ausar why do you bother brother man,just become a regular poster until they pull the plug.
Bredrin, can yuh blame him doah? smh kmrt....I been tell di mon seh it past time fe jus tell di people dem round 'ere (weh talk ish tuh him pon di regular) fe jus gwey guh suck dem madda and drop sleep ina hogpen alongside har cho!
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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Anasi, I would much rather see your message board succeed but I doubt it will because you lack the web presence of Egyptsearch. Egyptsearch is the only forum you have talking about these issues from which most people in academia hide from. As pointed aby alTakruri; the publishers of National Geographic probably took alot of their arguments against a non-black ancient Egypt from this message board.
I have an obligation to Egyptsearch posters to inform them if I suspect any suspicious activity is occuring.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Thank you. You've given credence to something that I and others have suspected. Pretty fucking sick though that they should use the murder of a young man to antagonise the black membership here and stoke advertising interest.
Lioness has already admitted to being paid per thread and saying that if she didn't post then the site wouldn't have enough of a presence to survive. Her admission came after I stated that although she has been on this forum 4 times longer than me (2 years compared to 6 months) she has posted 40 times the amount of posts.
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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ausar, yuh scandal bag is full lol...yuh fe clean it out nuh star Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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Just as I suspected, the Mods have been doing this for quite a while, it was very obvious. I suspect Lioness, Africanolmec to be suspect.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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This is a job for Lioness but AOlmec. . .he is difinitely here to create havoc and stoke the fire.
so what happened to Mansa Musa(?). He was voted in as a Mod then disappeared.
There is always a reason for things.
eg Why were YOU chosen? Why Mansa Musa and NOT Altk when that election was held several years ago. Were the vote count manipulated etc
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Great Jew is an overly sensitive pompous azz. His snobbish arrogant style would have meant less traffic for ES and hence revenue. Like or not, that's what its all about. If you want a sober atmosphere with strict rules of engagement where only like minds interact, then you have ESR. The openness is what draws people to ES. This is why even those that complain either stay, or change their name and assume a 'new' personality, or when they leave, like C.Bass, they go to other forums to argue with the same type of folks here, with the same information and the same talking points. In other words, do the same damn thing again.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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alTakruri was offered the position and so were many others but all turned the position down. Mansa Musa had prior engagements at a anti-racist site which was meant as a counter to racist websites.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Thats a bunch of crap. The only thing that drew people to E.S was the amount and quality of Egyptology and Africana and Biological Science this site offered. The openess only attracted trolls. ESR simply lacks the foundation that E.S has, simply put there are not the serious amount of researchers and laymen that was here during the old days of E.S
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Don't hold your breathe about Africana ever becoming a popular subject. What matters is a few serious scholars with a legitimate and vocal pressence in academia.
We need a person well versed in all aspects of the soft and hard sciences. The problem is most of these people work for academia which are openly hostile to alot of the ideas expoused on this forum.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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The only reason ES became attractive in the first place was because of the openness which allowed debates with the white racist "trolls" like White Nords etc. Looking back at the old threads, dating as far back as 2004, we saw the same back and forth arguments: the validity of concept caucasian, alleged caucasian admixture in E.Africa, African admixtures in Europe etc etc. If there were no "trolls" there would be no attraction. The information gathered from Keita etc isn't unique to ES. What was unique was the open debates with white racists where people were exposed to the different arguments against a black Egypt and how they were countered. If there were no openness there would've been no heated debates and hence no attraction. Most people are attracted to excitement and thrill of arguing, which is why Bass goes to racist sites to do the same damn thing.
If ES started out like ESR, where overly sensitive mods and to many rules (like debating whether allow the use of the "negro"), it would have never become as "popular" as ES. The only reason ES is "going down" now is because most of the serious posters have left. I suspect its because they got tired of arguing the same things over and over again. Some like Charlie Bass have opt to argue with the same type of racists, arguing the same things, but on a different websites. ES has done its time, however, because of the type of moderation ESR will not take its place.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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^^^^ True, but at the same time quality work and research was presented here. Despite the back and forth with trolls. The openess of E.S was nice and important but E.S was the only forum I knew of that could back up the Egyptians blackness with facts instead of opinions.
As I said ESR lacks much serious effort by members t present serious academic material. BEsides Brada and a few others no one is really trying to build it up. Its a nice website and I do post there but most of the people who made E.S what it is are not there.
If E.S had not had serious members presenting some of the best info on Africana subjects there would be no need for back and forth with trolls. The White trolls came here because they saw our material and research as a threat.
ESR problem is not Moderation, if you think Brada is a tough mod. your crazy, he let me get away with alot.
Also it is kinda pathetic to go other forums simply to debate Whites, I post on other forums sometimes but I dont try to make Eurocentrics my main focus, although I do run into a Eurocentric every now and then.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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^Fvck ESR. I tried that spot and was met with cencorship. That Hebrew dude, I forget his name, is on some serious power tripping, crying like a bitch because I used a word he ain't like. ESR is a big fat joke. All that it is good for is Afroloons bouncing off each other the same ol' bullock false nonsense. They are not welcoming critical examination of any of their absurd, pseudo claims.
Posts: 816 | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^^ True, but at the same time quality work and research was presented here. Despite the back and forth with trolls. The openess of E.S was nice and important but E.S was the only forum I knew of that could back up the Egyptians blackness with facts instead of opinions.
As I said ESR lacks much serious effort by members t present serious academic material. BEsides Brada and a few others no one is really trying to build it up. Its a nice website and I do post there but most of the people who made E.S what it is are not there.
If E.S had not had serious members presenting some of the best info on Africana subjects there would be no need for back and forth with trolls. The White trolls came here because they saw our material and research as a threat.
ESR problem is not Moderation, if you think Brada is a tough mod. your crazy, he let me get away with alot.
Also it is kinda pathetic to go other forums simply to debate Whites, I post on other forums sometimes but I dont try to make Eurocentrics my main focus, although I do run into a Eurocentric every now and then.
I suspect the reason that most of the people who made E.S what it is are not at ESR is because of the lack of trolls to debate. It sounds ironic, but if you think about it, what explains the fact that the same people who complain about trolls here will go to other websites to argue the same things with the same type of people??! It's psychologically more satisfying (and lot more exciting) to "win" arguments than simply posting of information with people like minds. Face it, unless your a snob professor its boring. In fact it may lead to complacency, by debating "trolls" you know how good your are, how up to date your material is, what are the new counter arguments against your position etc etc
quote:ESR problem is not Moderation, if you think Brada is a tough mod. your crazy, he let me get away with alot.
The moderators over at ESR I had in mind was the one and only super sensitive Great Jew.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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by debating "trolls" you know how good your are, how up to date your material is, what are the new counter arguments against your position etc etc
Part of me reluctantly agrees with that - although the superiority of the evidence supporting the African-centred approach to Egypt is there for all to see, the racists and ideologues will keep trying.
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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I think one other reason why Bass et al. left was because the more serious "trolls" left too. Notice their absence correlates with the absence of posters like White Nord, Jamie, etc. The "new" inferior trolls like CT, Lioness etc don't offer serious arguments or challenge and hence are poor alternatives.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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Damn! At least give me more credit than Lioness! Geez!
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: The "new" inferior trolls like CT, Lioness etc don't offer serious arguments or challenge and hence are poor alternatives.
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: [QB] I think one other reason why Bass et al. left was because the more serious "trolls" left too. Notice their absence correlates with the absence of posters like White Nord, Jamie, etc. The "new" inferior trolls like CT, Lioness etc don't offer serious arguments or challenge and hence are poor alternatives.
^^^anguishofbeingatroll invite to White Nord
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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LOL! Yeh, I miss that angry white racist. A top class troll compared to your dumbass.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: I think one other reason why Bass et al. left was because the more serious "trolls" left too. Notice their absence correlates with the absence of posters like White Nord, Jamie, etc. The "new" inferior trolls like CT, Lioness etc don't offer serious arguments or challenge and hence are poor alternatives.
no the reason Bass left is because of health issues and a refusal to argue with trolls, get your facts straight moron.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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Do you really think mainstream scholarship accepts the crackpot afronut theory the ancient egyptians were ''black''?
Name a credible authority who claims this.
I have access to JSTOR and hundreds of other peer review journal sites. Never have i come across a peer-reviewed article claiming the egyptians were Negroid/Black. They don't exist.
Within egyptology and academia there is no debate on this topic. It's just limited to the INTERNET... Every genuine scholar knows the ancient egyptians were North African in phenotype (Caucasoid), not Negroid.
Btw, taking a look at ESR etc, note how the posters there admit the ancient egyptians were thin nosed, wavy-straight haired and orthognathic. Even the afronuts admit the ancient egyptians were Caucasoid, but out of delusion and self-hatred insist that although the egyptians were fully caucasoid in morphology and hair texture, they magically were still somehow ''black''...
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Do you really think mainstream scholarship accepts the crackpot afronut theory the ancient egyptians were ''black''?
Name a credible authority who claims this.
I have access to JSTOR and hundreds of other peer review journal sites. Never have i come across a peer-reviewed article claiming the egyptians were Negroid/Black. They don't exist.
Within egyptology and academia there is no debate on this topic. It's just limited to the INTERNET... Every genuine scholar knows the ancient egyptians were North African in phenotype (Caucasoid), not Negroid.
Btw, taking a look at ESR etc, note how the posters there admit the ancient egyptians were thin nosed, wavy-straight haired and orthognathic. Even the afronuts admit the ancient egyptians were Caucasoid, but out of delusion and self-hatred insist that although the egyptians were fully caucasoid in morphology and hair texture, they magically were still somehow ''black''...
Many Evolutionary biologists of the past 20 years would argue that a more reliable less ambiguous distinction between Negroids and Caucasians than crania are limb ratios and that Negroids have tropical limb ratios and Caucasions don't- and that many of the Egyptian remains have tropical limb ratios meaning that their ancestry as shown by this morphology derives from tropical climates as in Africa rather than cold climate adapted populations of Europe.
I challenge you to reference any peer revied article in a scientific journal of the past 15 years saying that the Egyptians were Caucasoid.
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Do you really think mainstream scholarship accepts the crackpot afronut theory the ancient egyptians were ''black''?
Name a credible authority who claims this.
I have access to JSTOR and hundreds of other peer review journal sites. Never have i come across a peer-reviewed article claiming the egyptians were Negroid/Black. They don't exist.
Within egyptology and academia there is no debate on this topic. It's just limited to the INTERNET... Every genuine scholar knows the ancient egyptians were North African in phenotype (Caucasoid), not Negroid.
Btw, taking a look at ESR etc, note how the posters there admit the ancient egyptians were thin nosed, wavy-straight haired and orthognathic. Even the afronuts admit the ancient egyptians were Caucasoid, but out of delusion and self-hatred insist that although the egyptians were fully caucasoid in morphology and hair texture, they magically were still somehow ''black''...
Many Evolutionary biologists of the past 20 years would argue that a more reliable less ambiguous distinction between Negroids and Caucasians than crania are limb ratios and that Negroids have tropical limb ratios and Caucasions don't- and that many of the Egyptian remains have tropical limb ratios meaning that their ancestry as shown by this morphology derives from tropical climates as in Africa rather than cold climate adapted populations of Europe.
I challenge you to reference any peer revied article in a scientific journal of the past 15 years saying that the Egyptians were Caucasoid.
Absolute fantasy.
There is no biological rule positing that people living in tropical areas have ''tropical limb ratios''. The rule only works for colder (northern) climates, Allen's rule.
No such rule for the tropics exists.
The reason there is no such rule for the tropics is because many people living in tropical areas have shown to highly vary in limb portion.
Some indigeous peoples of the Americas on the tropical latitue have cold-adapted limbs, despite living there for 15,000 or more years, in contrast some have longer ratios.
Some northern Australian aborigines also have cold adapted body portions. This is despite the fact they have lived in the hottest regions of Australia on the tropical latitude for 40,000 or more years. It's exactly the same with most Melanesians.
Now on to Africa...
''[...] The bodily build of the African Hamites is typically Mediterranean in the ratio of arms, legs, and trunk'' - Coon, 1939
Somali, Ethiopians have colder adapted body portions, falling in the range of southern europeans. Billy et al. (1988) also confirmed this still extant colder adapted Mediterranean morphological affinity.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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There is no biological rule positing that people living in tropical areas have ''tropical limb ratios''. The rule only works for colder (northern) climates, Allen's rule.
Mainstream biological texts would say mankind began in a tropical region to begin with and later went into progressive colder regions and as you said Allen's rule works for colder climates. Therefore people in those climates have limbs that are shorter in proportion to their trunks, British "white" people for example. But if someone had a given limb ratio and lived in a cold region and then went into a hot region and their limbs did not lengthen it wouldn't matter because we are dealing with the ancient Egyptians located in Africa. That is the starting point, Egypt in Africa.
Caucasians are considered people adapted to colder climates with less sunlight.
Simply, if Allen's rule has affected Caucasians and shortened the proportion of their limbs as compared to their trunks and many ancient Egyptian have limbs that are longer in proportion to their trunks it would suggest that many of them were not Caucasian.
But genetics overide old phenotypic concepts of race. For example two people might have a very similar nose phenotypically but come from parts of the world that are far from each other. The similarity of the phenotypic trait may just be coincidental and cannot locate a person's ancestral location with the precision of DNA analysis. Therefore a phenotypic definition of race is antiquated compared to genotypic characteristics although Allens rule as applied to shortened limbs is more stuctural in relation to climate adpatation than facial features which vary less predictably.
If you say that some Africans have less tropically adapted limbs it doesn't matter because we are dealing with the reamains of ancient Egyptians many of which do have longer limbs in proprotion to their trunks. Therefore if British people or other Western Europeans have cold adpated limb ratios they are excluded from being the ancestors of some of these ancient Egyptians.
Also your chimp out thread was stupid. These kind of associations are not scientific and your message to black people is that they are less than human even though you spend hours debating us here. That was racist political propaganda and shows the worst side of your Asperger's, the lack of empathy.
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Far be it from me to take sides with Lioness, but she/he did ask you to provide a peer reviewed source from the last 15 years, which you have failed to do.
You've also failed to post a response to the two links I provided you with.
I think most people wouldn't rate your 'expertise' - a BTEC and a foundation degree in forensic anthropology from a non-university - as adding up to much, especially given your junior world view.
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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Limb sizes are not a valid criteria of racial classification, if they were then different Amerindian tribes who are of the exact same racial origin would be divided into different races.
Furthermore, tropical limb proportions are not exclusive to Negroids.
Btw, African-Americans don't have tropical adapted limbs.
''[...] contemporary African Americans do not have tropical limb proportions but have in a few hundred years changed to more European body proportions''
Furthermore, tropical limb proportions are not exclusive to Negroids.
I don't remember anyone saying they were, but given Egypt's geographical location- Africa - it would make eminently more sense to posit the origins of the tropically adapted Egyptians to tropical Africa, would it not?
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Limb sizes are not a valid criteria of racial classification, if they were then different Amerindian tribes who are of the exact same racial origin would be divided into different races.
Furthermore, tropical limb proportions are not exclusive to Negroids.
Btw, African-Americans don't have tropical adapted limbs.
''[...] contemporary African Americans do not have tropical limb proportions but have in a few hundred years changed to more European body proportions''
If you say that some Africans or some Amerindian tribes have less tropically adapted limbs it doesn't matter because we are dealing with the remains of ancient Egyptians many of which do have longer limbs in proportion to their trunks. Therefore if British people or other Western Europeans have cold adapted limb ratios they are excluded from being the ancestors of some of these ancient Egyptians.
The limbs don't tell the whole picture but when you add it to the geography more of the picture is told by process of elimination in terms of who the Egyptians weren't.
For example we know that they couldn't be Amerindians because that is too far away to be a possibility. And we know that the Egyptians many of whom were found with longer limbs in proportion to their trunks could not have been Britons because Britons and people in Western Europe have cold adapted limbs. So you are excluded by process of elimination
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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LMAO @ whites desperately striving to salvage the validity of their Nazi derived pseudo-scienceS, I.E. Limb proportions, racial evolution, genetics.
If you're black, you require degrees and certifications out the ying/yang to gain credibility.
If you are white/Jew, then you can be trained as a circus clown and go on to start professional organizations like the American Medical or the Bar Associations. What a flip-flop world you've distorted the planet into.
Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Limb sizes are not a valid criteria of racial classification, if they were then different Amerindian tribes who are of the exact same racial origin would be divided into different races.
Furthermore, tropical limb proportions are not exclusive to Negroids.
Btw, African-Americans don't have tropical adapted limbs.
''[...] contemporary African Americans do not have tropical limb proportions but have in a few hundred years changed to more European body proportions''
If you say that some Africans or some Amerindian tribes have less tropically adapted limbs it doesn't matter because we are dealing with the remains of ancient Egyptians many of which do have longer limbs in proportion to their trunks. Therefore if British people or other Western Europeans have cold adapted limb ratios they are excluded from being the ancestors of some of these ancient Egyptians.
The limbs don't tell the whole picture but when you add it to the geography more of the picture is told by process of elimination in terms of who the Egyptians weren't.
For example we know that they couldn't be Amerindians because that is too far away to be a possibility. And we know that the Egyptians many of whom were found with longer limbs in proportion to their trunks could not have been Britons because Britons and people in Western Europe have cold adapted limbs. So you are excluded by process of elimination
If African-Americans have cold adapted limbs by local adaptation in a few hundred years, what could have stopped the Caucasoids who penetrated Africa from becoming tropically adapted?
Bear in mind Caucasoids have been in North Africa since the Mesolithic.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by claus3600: @anglo Do you really think mainstream scholarship accepts the crackpot afronut theory the ancient egyptians were ''black''?
You're nuts. For starters this woman here is a classicist with a Phd in Ptolemaic Egypt...
I think you're the crackpot here and you know it, you marginalised little boy.
ok so you have a single nutbag, well done. political correctness is driving such people. Did you know they had too remove the ''ginger'' tag of the red-haired egyptian prehistoric mummies in the British Museum?
The earliest mummies unearthed in egypt have flowing wavy bright red or auburn hair. Yet all the labels were removed from these mummies, for the obvious reason red hair is an exclusive Caucasoid trait. So political correctness is another issue in the egyptian race controversy, all the evidence proving a Caucasoid egypt is anyhow silenced as much as possible.
Btw, no such afrocentric has ever explained the predynastic red haired mummies.
Are we expected to now believe negroes have flowing wavy-straight red hair? Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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We have gone through all of the above...why recycle this nonsense? lol
"We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites... Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical... Intralimb indices are not significantly different between Egyptians and American Blacks... brachial indices are definitely more ‘African ’... There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formula may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains." ("Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: A new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature." Michelle H. Raxter, Christopher B. Ruff, Ayman Azab, Moushira Erfan, Muhammad Soliman, Aly El-Sawaf,(Am J Phys Anthropol. 2008, Jun;136(2):147-5
Comparisons of linear body proportions of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom period individuals, and workers and high officials in our sample found no statistically significant differences among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also found little evidence for differences in linear body proportions of Egyptians over a wider temporal range. In general, recent studies of skeletal variation among ancient Egyptians support scenarios of biological continuity through time. Irish (2006) analyzed quantitative and qualitative dental traits of 996 Egyptians from Neolithic through Roman periods, reporting the presence of a few outliers but concluding that the dental samples appear to be largely homogeneous and that the affinities observed indicate overall biological uniformity and continuity from Predynastic through Dynastic and Postdynastic periods.
Zakrzewski (2007) provided a comprehensive summary of previous Egyptian craniometric studies and examined Egyptian crania from six time periods. She found that the earlier samples were relatively more homogeneous in comparison to the later groups. However, overall results indicated genetic continuity over the Egyptian Predynastic and Early Dynastic periods, albeit with a high level of genetic diversity within the population, suggesting an indigenous process of state formation. She also concluded that while the biological patterning of the Egyptian population varied across time, no consistent temporal or spatial trends are apparent. Thus, the stature estimation formulae developed here may be broadly applicable to all ancient Egyptian populations..".
("Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: A new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature." Michelle H. Raxter, Christopher B. Ruff, Ayman Azab, Moushira Erfan, Muhammad Soliman, Aly El-Sawaf,(Am J Phys Anthropol. 2008, Jun;136(2):147-55
quote:Originally posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718): Of course it does matter...
"The only exception is Robins and Schute's (1983) crural indices for Egyptian Pharaohs, which are lower, although these were derived using a different technique-radiography rather than direct measurement- which could acount for the difference."
Different and new techniques are being used, hence why I said you need to know...
quote:Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: a new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature.
Raxter MH, Ruff CB,
Abstract
Trotter and Gleser's (Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 10 (1952) 469-514; Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 16 (1958) 79-123) long bone formulae for US Blacks or derivations thereof (Robins and Shute: Hum Evol 1 (1986) 313-324) have been previously used to estimate the stature of ancient Egyptians. However, limb length to stature proportions differ between human populations; consequently, the most accurate mathematical stature estimates will be obtained when the population being examined is as similar as possible in proportions to the population used to create the equations. The purpose of this study was to create new stature regression formulae based on direct reconstructions of stature in ancient Egyptians and assess their accuracy in comparison to other stature estimation methods. We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites. Living stature estimates were derived using a revised Fully anatomical method (Raxter et al.: Am J Phys Anthropol 130 (2006) 374-384). Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical. The newly generated Egyptian-based stature regression formulae have standard errors of estimate of 1.9-4.2 cm. All mean directional differences are less than 0.4% compared to anatomically estimated stature, while results using previous formulae are more variable, with mean directional biases varying between 0.2% and 1.1%, tibial and radial estimates being the most biased. There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formulae may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Limb sizes are not a valid criteria of racial classification, if they were then different Amerindian tribes who are of the exact same racial origin would be divided into different races.
Furthermore, tropical limb proportions are not exclusive to Negroids.
Btw, African-Americans don't have tropical adapted limbs.
''[...] contemporary African Americans do not have tropical limb proportions but have in a few hundred years changed to more European body proportions''
If you say that some Africans or some Amerindian tribes have less tropically adapted limbs it doesn't matter because we are dealing with the remains of ancient Egyptians many of which do have longer limbs in proportion to their trunks. Therefore if British people or other Western Europeans have cold adapted limb ratios they are excluded from being the ancestors of some of these ancient Egyptians.
The limbs don't tell the whole picture but when you add it to the geography more of the picture is told by process of elimination in terms of who the Egyptians weren't.
For example we know that they couldn't be Amerindians because that is too far away to be a possibility. And we know that the Egyptians many of whom were found with longer limbs in proportion to their trunks could not have been Britons because Britons and people in Western Europe have cold adapted limbs. So you are excluded by process of elimination
If African-Americans have cold adapted limbs by local adaptation in a few hundred years, what could have stopped the Caucasoids who penetrated Africa from becoming tropically adapted?
Bear in mind Caucasoids have been in North Africa since the Mesolithic.
Because after hundreds of years in Europe and America people of African descent still have elongated tropically adpated limbs
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Limb sizes are not a valid criteria of racial classification, if they were then different Amerindian tribes who are of the exact same racial origin would be divided into different races.
Furthermore, tropical limb proportions are not exclusive to Negroids.
Btw, African-Americans don't have tropical adapted limbs.
''[...] contemporary African Americans do not have tropical limb proportions but have in a few hundred years changed to more European body proportions''
If you say that some Africans or some Amerindian tribes have less tropically adapted limbs it doesn't matter because we are dealing with the remains of ancient Egyptians many of which do have longer limbs in proportion to their trunks. Therefore if British people or other Western Europeans have cold adapted limb ratios they are excluded from being the ancestors of some of these ancient Egyptians.
The limbs don't tell the whole picture but when you add it to the geography more of the picture is told by process of elimination in terms of who the Egyptians weren't.
For example we know that they couldn't be Amerindians because that is too far away to be a possibility. And we know that the Egyptians many of whom were found with longer limbs in proportion to their trunks could not have been Britons because Britons and people in Western Europe have cold adapted limbs. So you are excluded by process of elimination
If African-Americans have cold adapted limbs by local adaptation in a few hundred years, what could have stopped the Caucasoids who penetrated Africa from becoming tropically adapted?
Bear in mind Caucasoids have been in North Africa since the Mesolithic.
Because after hundreds of years in Europe and America people of African descent still have elongated tropically adpated limbs
No they don't.
African-Americans don't have tropical adapted limbs -
''[...] contemporary African Americans do not have tropical limb proportions but have in a few hundred years changed to more European body proportions''
And funnily enough the only afrocentric retards obsessed with limb ratios on this forum are African-Americans (Zaharan etc), who themselves aren't even tropically adapted.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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Stop lying, African Americans are obviously still tropically adapted, as evidenced by Terry:
I don't care about someones opinion, let's see the data your source used, to arrive at that conclusion, shall we? Where are the hard figures that place their African American sample outside of the African range?
While you're at it, show the Somali and Ethiopian data (I mean the measurements, not the author's conclusions), that supposedly proves they're not tropically adapted.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Stop lying, African Americans are obviously still tropically adapted, as evidenced by Terry:
I don't care about someones opinion, let's see the data your source used, to arrive at that conclusion, shall we? Where are the hard figures that place their African American sample outside of the African range?
While you're at it, show the Somali and Ethiopian data (I mean the measurements, not the author's conclusions), that supposedly proves they're not tropically adapted.
What do you make of this study:
GROUP ............... CRURAL INDEX Lapp ................ 79.0 Eskimo .............. 81.5 Belgium ............. 82.5 American White ...... 82.6 S. African White .... 83.2 Bushman ............. 83.4 Yugoslav ............ 83.75 New Mexico Indian ... 84.6 Melanesian .......... 84.8 Egyptian ............ 84.9 Pygmy ............... 85.1 American Black ...... 85.25 Arizona Indian ...... 85.5 S. African Black .... 86.4
Source: The Emergence of Homo Sapiens: The Post Cranial Evidence, G. E. Kennedy, Man, New Series, Vol. 19, No. 1, Mar., 1984, pp. 94-110.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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Are you mentally alright? I mean, you do realize that the Melanesian and African Americans samples shown on that graph you linked to, have the most tropical limbs of all the studied groups, right?
I mean, you realize you've just obliterated your own viewpoints, right?
quote: Originally posted by Anglo-Pyramidologist: African-Americans don't have tropical adapted limbs
quote: Originally posted by Anglo-Pyramidologist: Some northern Australian aborigines also have cold adapted body portions. This is despite the fact they have lived in the hottest regions of Australia on the tropical latitude for 40,000 or more years. It's exactly the same with most Melanesians.
Now, will you finally post that Ethiopian/Somali limb data you were speaking on earlier, so I can have another laugh at you?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Are you mentally alright? I mean, you do realize that the Melanesian and African Americans samples shown on that graph you linked to, have the most tropical limbs of all the studied groups, right?
I mean, you realize you've just obliterated your own viewpoints, right?
quote: Originally posted by Anglo-Pyramidologist: African-Americans don't have tropical adapted limbs
quote: Originally posted by Anglo-Pyramidologist: Some northern Australian aborigines also have cold adapted body portions. This is despite the fact they have lived in the hottest regions of Australia on the tropical latitude for 40,000 or more years. It's exactly the same with most Melanesians.
Now, will you finally post that Ethiopian/Somali limb data you were speaking on earlier, so I can have another laugh at you?
Jumping to attack, without even reading the studies properly just exposes you as a fraud and a retard.
Those studies obliterate your 'Terry' study.
Yugoslavians come closest to your Terry mean sample of egyptian crural index. 3.75/3.6.
What else? The studies show those classified as Whites in the bottom study have more tropical adapted limbs than the indigenous african bushmen.
Furthermore the 'mean' crural index for African-Americans' wildly ranges from 83. 7 - 85.25 while the bottom study places Whites at 84.3, more than the African-Americans in Terry study. So some whites are more tropically adapted than African-Americans according to the data...
All of this goes to show, as i have been saying -limb ratios are not a valid criteria for racial classification because of obvious overlap. Some classified as 'Whites' measured are coming out tropically adapted, more so than African-Americans and even indigenous african Bushmen.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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Your dumb ass just doesn't know how to read the data. Like the idiot that you are, you don't even realize you cannot use the measurements obtained from one study, and apply them to other data, without critically looking at what measurement standards were used to come up with those numbers. The samples were not the same, and ever if they were, there is always the well known phenomenon of researchers coming up with different measurements from the same material as well. You wouldn't know this, of course, being the crude, unsophisticated b!tch that you are, always bragging about your degree in forensic anthropology, but never demonstrating insight beyond trivial concepts such as ''negro'', ''caucasian'' and ''mongoloid''.
The key lesson to take away from all those studies, is that equatorial Africans (and those who descend from them, e.g., African Americans) are - as an average expressed in ratio - never lower or the same as the average of whites who were measured, within that same study.
Kalahari Bushmen lower limb ratio's vis a vis equatorial Africans can be explained by the former group having a lack of cultural buffering in the form of extensive clothing, and their long time residence at a relatively high latitude.
Read a phucking book, dumb ass.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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here is the book quote AP mentioned: Bones and Ochre: The Curious Afterlife of the Red Lady of Paviland By Marianne Sommer pp 272-275 and ftnt 26
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