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Author Topic: The Moriscos: The Christian Muurs of Spain
IronLion
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In Spain there were many Muurish Christians and Muurish Jews. They were variously called Moriscos, Maranos, Ladinos, eventually Latinos.

The Muurs were predominantly christians because they invented christianity and christianized and then civilized Europe.

There were the church builders, the builders of the great Castles seen all over Europe and lovingly known in Spain as Muurish Castles.

They brought science, astronomy, navigation, mathematics, chemistry, agriculture, even spoken language to the Europeans.

Spanish for example used to be known as Muurish Latin. Today, some albinos claim this language as their heritage.

Why, because the Muurs lost various wars, then fell in prominence. Some were enslaved in Europe and the Americas by their former slaves, vassals and serfs...

And since those days, the world has gone down the drain and things are getting even more horrible.

This thread introduces you to some of those Christian Muurs of Alkebulan.....

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IronLion
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Juan de Pareja (1606–1670)[1] was a Spanish painter, born in Antequera, near Málaga, Spain. He is primarily known as a member of the household and workshop of painter Diego Velázquez. His 1661 work The Calling of St. Matthew (sometimes also referred to as The Vocation of St. Matthew) is currently on display at the Museo del Prado in Madrid, Spain. De Pareja became Velazquez's assistant sometime after the master returned to Madrid from his first trip to Italy in January 1631. After the death of Velazquez he entered the service of Juan del Mazo.[2]

He was a freedman, and was described as a "Morisco", being "of mixed heritage and a strange color".[3]

The usage of the word "morisco" at the time refer to both descendants of the Muurs who remained in Spain after the conquest of the Albinos...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_de_Pareja

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IronLion
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Spanish Mexico
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Spanish mainland
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Egmond Codfried
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Kindly give us some sources.
I do not see any Spanish anyone in West Europe.

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
Kindly give us some sources.
I do not see any Spanish anyone in West Europe.

Go here:

http://bjws.blogspot.ca/2011/09/18th-century-latin-american-family.html

Also check Rasta Livewire for the article on Mathieu Da Costa. I will be posting it here in a bit...

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facts
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Don't you love those post Al Andulus Negroes? You are the best, IronLion!!
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IronLion
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Converso and Morisco are the terms applied to those Jews and Muslims who converted to Christianity in large numbers and usually under duress in late medieval Spain. The Converso and Morisco Studies publications will examine the implications of these mass conversions for the converts themselves, for their heirs (also referred to as Conversos and Moriscos) and for medieval and modern Spanish and European culture. Volume two of the series focuses on the Moriscos, offering new perspectives on this allusive group's social and religious character in the period leading up to its expulsion from Spain in 1609.

http://www.brill.nl/conversos-and-moriscos-late-medieval-spain-and-beyond-0

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facts
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Morisco

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Now, let's see IronLion pull a rabbit out of his magic hat and make these into Negroes.

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facts
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Your thread is now being shitted on, IronLion.

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IronLion
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Its good to read and comprehend.

Obviously Gigolo Joe is lacking in one or both faculties.

But back to topic:

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The Decline of the Moors

The Moors of the Iberian pennisula suffered great and incalculable losses when their centuries old rule was brought to a violent end in Spain in 1492 following the loss of the Caliphate of Granada.

Beginning from that same 1492 in Spain and 1497 in Portugal, the exile of the original dark sons was inauguarated. The conquering European armies were filled with a strange blood lust and an incurable pathological jealousy of the Moors. It was their simple wish to dispossess the Moorish owners of the land, confisicate all their properties and enslave their bodies.

It was easy and simple for them because the fight for Iberia had been drawn across racial lines, so-called “white” Asiatic-Europeans versus so-called black n brown Africans and Afro-Arabians.


New World Order

The Moors occupied the land mass where Lisbon is currently situated and in their time they called it Alishbuna. They had ruled for 400 years since 700 AD only losing their grip on power in 1147 AD. From that date until 1249 when christian crusaders conquered Algarve, the Moors lost land and authority before the hordes of inner Europe.

Following the complete conquest of Portugal in 1249 (with the capture of Algarve), the crusaders gradually tighten the noose around the Moor’s neck, literally speaking. Discrimination got worse. Odinary folks were constantly harrassed. Moors were under unrelenting suspicion of disloyalty, insurrection, and rebellion.

They were imposed on with excessive taxes. Their cultural rights were abrigded, language was restricted, political and business space became increasing non-accessible.

Finally, with the conquest of Granada in 1492 by the Spanish branch of the crusaders, all hell was let loose on the hapless Moors living then in Spain and in Portugal.

The crusaders decided that the fact of being a Moor was criminal enough in itself and so Moors were required to symbolically renounce their heritage and culture. They were required to adopt a new identity as christians called “conversos.” Sometimes these new christians were called “marranoes” a racist term which connoted a “pig” or something unclean.

Conversos were like second class christians of Portugal. Those who would not convert and accept their official second class status as de-culturated animals were then forcibly expelled either as prisoners, slaves or refugees.

The notorious instuitition known as the inquisition, a system of spies, secret police, tortures, confessions and swift executions was established. It was responsible for the death of millions of Moors all over Europe but especially in the Iberian pennisula. It lasted for hundreds of years torturing, maiming and killing all real and suspected enemies of the new European royalty. Its bloodlust, sadism and cruelty are now live in infamy. Those Moors it did not kill or maim, it sold as slaves.

It so happened that in 1496-7 Portugese Kings Joao II and Manuel I horded hundreds of thousands of Jews sent them into exile on the West African coasts of Guinea and Biafra, and on the Islands of Cape Verde and Sao Tome, into a live of perpetual slavery. These peculiar branch of the Iberian moorish Hebrews were called the Ladinos.

Ladino means latinized negros. It was a racist term used for the black Jews of Iberia who were soon deported to African Islands and coastal settlements and used as the first slaves in the sugar plantations. See, Abu Alfa MUHAMMAD SHAREEF bin Farid, “A Continuity of the 19th Century Jihaad Movements of Western Sudan,” Sankore: Institute of Islamic-African Studies,” http://www.africandiasporastudies.com/downloads/bahia_slave_revolt.pdf

According to Richard Lobban, in his article “Jews in Cape Verde and on the Guinea Coast” Paper presented at the University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth, 11 February 1996:

“..Portugese or Iberian Jews sometimes use this term to note this social group which consitituted a portion of early migrants to the Cape Verde Islands. Some reference use this term for the people and language of 16th and 17th century Sephardic Jews from Iberian Pennisula. The term Ladino could also refer to baptized African slaves. In either case, the reference was often racist, and derogatory and implied a lying, wandering, sneaky, and thieving group which was particularly untrustworthy.”..

Muurz @ http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-ladino-moors-the-jews-of-cape-verde-and-the-guinea-rivers-jide-uwechia/

[Big Grin] [Big Grin]

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IronLion
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Muurish German Kings

Nuremberg Musuem:

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the lioness,
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"Muur" means "wall" in Dutch
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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
"Muur" means "wall" in Dutch

The Duncey speaks!

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LMBAO! [Big Grin]

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Egmond Codfried
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The Spanish Moors were muslims.
I do not find Muslims in west Europe,
Nor can I imagine Muslims building churches,
and not mosques.

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IronLion
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The Spanish Muurs were also Christians, as well as Jews. Juan de Pareja (1606–1670) above is a good example.

The first Christian churches existed in North Africa. Some of the earliest Christians were North African Muurs. For example St Augustine.

Even after the Muslim conquest of North Africa, Christians and Jews still lived peacefully side and side, and still do today, in North Africa.

The origin of the Sephardi Jews is Morocco, not Spain.

There were also Maghrebi Jews, who moved towards Mauritania and Mali.

They were all Black people, if you choose to use the word Black. Some Muurs cannot seem to see themselves beyond colour.

But I and my ancestors are not a colour. We have land and nationality. We are Muurs from ancient Morocco, and Muuritania, and Ethiopia, and Maghreb, and the Suwahail (Sahel, also Swahili).

And we have been in Europe constantly from the neolithic until today. All over Europe, from Russia to Scotland you will hear of us, the Muurs.

Go look at the castle of Europe. The oldest and the best all have Muurish heads, indicating the previous owners. The oldest castles in Spain are all called Muurish castle.

Incidentally Muur in German-based languages also mean stone walls, in obvious reference to the association of stone masonry with the Muurs.

The Muurs taught the Europeans, not only the sciences but architecture and civil engineering.

The Muurs are the secret still untold in European history. The muur you look into it the muur you will see where the Muurs snythesize your theory of black rule over Europe (aka your blue blood theory).

A good and solid knowledge of Muurish history and science is the final gate to liberation of mind, soul and body.

The Muurs, and the Muurish Empire are the key.

They knew us as the Muurs, sometimes mis-spelt as the Muirs, or the Moors.

European Muurish Royalty

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Egmond Codfried
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[This cup is part of the Moritzburg Treasure.]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Moritzburg-Treasure-Silver-Saxony/dp/B000H0JZY0


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

You have a interesting hypothesis, which must now be turned in a theory.

There is no mysterie to research. Why not pick one person or family and find as much about them as possible. It's always hard if you tackle a lot of people over a long period or time, or spread out geographically. So you might do a micro-history, and next more micro histories, till you have a more solid base for your theory.

It's not necessary to invent the wheel out each time, you might use other studies, you quote and name these studies and synthesize information from these, together with your own unique findings.
The web is a powerhouse of information.

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IronLion
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^^
This is not a theory. It is not a new story either. It is a fact borne out by European history.

I am neither the originator nor the inventor of any hypothesis nor theory. I don't need to rebuild the wheel. That was already done by the Masters. I am just a messenger.

Tune in to the Moorish Science Temple libraries.

Moorish history has been known in the United States since day one.

Spanish Muur with his Gothic Mistress
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Lámina: nº63: De Negro y Española nace Mulata / Un Negre et une Espagnole produisent Mulatre


Spanish Muurs
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Lámina: nº64: De Mulato y Española nace Morisco / Un Mulatre avec une Espagnole produisent un Moresque


http://www.funjdiaz.net/grab1.cfm?pagina=14

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IronLion
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Colonial Spanish Mexico

Muurs were superior to the new gothic Spaniards and were often sought out for marriage by lowly so-called whites:

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IronLion
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Google Translator Spanish to English:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/San_Martin_de_Porres_huaycan.jpg/220px-San_Martin_de_Porres_huaycan.jpg

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Presumably there since prehistoric population of African origin in Spain, although it is unlikely to ascribe any particular race.

In protohistoric times and in ancient times, there is documentary and archaeological evidence the existence of people of African origin, mainly sub-Saharan Mediterranean but, arriving with military contingents Carthaginian and Roman.

In the Islamic period, a significant number of black people came to Spain and some occupied high positions in systems and culture Caliphate.

Therefore, and black Africa being a major supplier of gold, during the Middle Ages there was the stereotype of wealthy black person, it is then when there are myths of Prester John and Balthazar.

Later, with the colonization of America and the establishment of the triangular trade, and notably from the late seventeenth century, the enslavement of black Africans affects growth of the aversion to the black. Since the eighteenth century a series of pseudo contribute to the justification for the enslavement of black people. In the nineteenth century Spain will be the last Western power to abolish slavery, which affects the persistence of anti-black racism....


Original Text:

Es de suponer que desde la prehistoria existe población de origen africano en España, aunque es improbable adscribirla a ningún tipo racial concreto. En época protohistórica y en época antigua, se registra documentalmente y con testimonios arqueológicos la existencia de población de origen africano, principalmente mediterráneo pero también subsahariano, llegadas con los contingentes militares cartaginés y roman...

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racismo_en_Espa%C3%B1a

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IronLion
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quote:
Sistema de Castas (or Society of Castes) was a porous racial classification system in colonial New Spain (present-day Mexico). It was a “hierarchal ordering of racial groups according to their proportion of Spanish blood.” In this system, notable categories with significant meaning were espanol (Spaniard), castizo, morisco, mestizo, mulatto, indio (Indian), and negro (black). At the sistema de castas most extreme, there were more than forty classifications, with espanol being the most desirable and negro being the least desirable for sociopolitical purposes. Race, color, physical features, occupation, and wealth in this society mattered as Spanish officials attempted to control every aspect of a person’s life from employment to regulating dress codes and friendships.

Within the Castas, most persons of African descent were categorized between Spaniard and Negro, and identified as mulatto or racially intermingled hispanicized citizens of predominant African heritage. Socially, blacks were marginalized in Colonial Spanish affairs and were systematically victimized by an institutional discrimination designed to quell civil unrest through assimilating them as ladinos (Spanish speakers) and integrating them into a feudal caste society.

This pattern of customary and legal oppression led to many persons of African descent choosing to move to the frontier of New Spain (what is now Northern Mexico and the Southwest United States). From 1531 to 1800, Afro-Mexicans came to the Southwest from Mexican states on the Northern frontier like Vera Cruz and Coahuila and, after 1700, from states on the Pacific Coast such as Sinaloa and Michoacán de Ocampo. The initial recruits for frontier settlements like San Jose, California, were lighter-complexioned Spanish colonists, many of whom declined to participate because of “low pay, poor uniforms, antiquated weapons, insufficient housing, extended absences from families, and the overall unattractiveness of the Spanish military” and settlement. Bearing the brunt of what awaited on the frontier were mestizos/as and mullatos/as who served in the place of these lighter-complexioned colonists usually identified as espanoles and criollos (i.e., persons of near-Spanish descent born in the Americas). As a result, multiracial settlements from San Antonio to Los Angeles had large black populations ranging from 20 to 55 percent.

Moreover, because of the scarcity of Spanish-speaking women on the frontier, racial intermingling with Native American women and smaller numbers of African women was a wide-spread practice, which populated the newly conquered region with a new race of people identified as Latin American.

The fluid nature of the Castas did allow for a few persons of African descent to attain a socioeconomically elevated status more frequently on the Colonial Spanish frontier than in the United States at the end of the eighteenth century. Mulatto Pedro Huizar, for example, was able to become a Don (Spanish nobleman) at Mission San Jose and thus change his status to espanol in 1793. Huizar was born and raised at Aguascalientes, Mexico, acquiring many skills in the arts and building trades. Around 1778, he journeyed north, first to San Antonio de Bexar, and finally, el Pueblo de San Jose, where he worked as a sculptor, mission carpenter, and surveyor. As Huizar's changed racial status shows, racial lines became so blurred through biological and occupational miscegenation that they became useless to Spanish census takers and other Iberian officials by 1800.

The Castas was officially dismantled by the 1830s, following the wars of independence raging throughout Latin America in the 1810s-1820s.

Sources:
R. Douglas Cope, The Limits of Racial Domination: Plebeian Society in Colonial Mexico City, 1660-1720 (Madison, WI: University of Wisconsin Press, 1994); Lawrence B. De Graaf, Kevin Mulroy, and Quintard Taylor (et al.), Seeking El Dorado: African Americans in California (Seattle: University of Washington Press, 2001); Ilona Katzew, Casta Painting: Images of Race in Eighteenth-Century Mexico (New Haven: Yale University Press, 2004); Douglas Monroy, Thrown Among Strangers: The Making of Mexican Culture in Frontier California (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1990); Leslie B. Rout, The African Experience in Spanish America: 1502 to the Present Day (New York: Cambridge University Press, 1976); Quintard Taylor, In Search of the Racial Frontier: African Americans in the West, 1528-1990 (New York: W.W. Norton, 1998).

http://www.blackpast.org/?q=aaw/sistema-de-castas-1500s-ca-1829
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IronLion
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Muurish Kings of SAxony

3 brothers Taler of Saxony.

Note only Kings images go on coins:

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Egmond Codfried
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quote:
Scientific inquiry is generally intended to be as objective as possible, to reduce biased interpretations of results. Another basic expectation is to document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, giving them the opportunity to verify results by attempting to reproduce them. This practice, called full disclosure, also allows statistical measures of the reliability of these data to be established.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
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Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
"Muur" means "wall" in Dutch

Yes, that is true.

And Moor means Black.


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the lioness,
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^^^^ those Dutch love their Moors:

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IronLion
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^No, they are jealous of our Muurish heritage...
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Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
^^^^ those Dutch love their Moors:

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Yes, that is true. They know the history of the Moors. Well!!

There are quite a few stories too.

They keep us awake and in memory of this history.

There is "more" art work. But it's not online. Some of it is in private libraries.

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IronLion
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Portugal gives us gems of Muurish history and as it is part of the Iberian peninsula this is not surprising:

http://resobscura.blogspot.ca/2010/06/europeans-as-other-redux.html

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
^^^^ those Dutch love their Moors:

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Yes, that is true. They know the history of the Moors. Well!!

There are quite a few stories too.

They keep us awake and in memory of this history.

There is "more" art work. But it's not online. Some of it is in private libraries.

Italy had Muurish ruling families as well. Many of them were from old European Nigri Latini families. One of the most important and influential of the Muurish lines that shaped and cultivated Europe was the Medici family.

Carlos Medici 1428

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The Medici family was foundational to the establishment of banking, accounting, and international commerce in Europe.

They also were singularly instrumental to the rise of the renaissance period.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
Italy had Muurish ruling families as well. Many of them were from old European Nigri Latini families. One of the most important and influential of the Muurish lines that shaped and cultivated Europe was the Medici family.

Carlos Medici 1428

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The Medici family was foundational to the establishment of banking, accounting, and international commerce in Europe.

They also were singularly instrumental to the rise of the renaissance period. [/QB]

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Iron, these are black people?

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IronLion
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LOL! Yes my dearest Lionese Duncey. They are Muurs.

What connects them all, the PN-2 Genetic Clade demonstrating that they all are one blood. E Chromosome from Africa. They were the Mediterraneans from Sub-Saharan Sahel.

The original owners of Europe. Note the red kingly fez on the head of Carlos Medici. The red fez was and still is the Muurish symbol of nobility and wisdom.

Here is Alessandro Medici Duke of Florence 1510 - 73. He was known as Il Moro, meaning the Muur:
 -

http://www.blackpast.org/files/blackpast_images/medici_allesandro.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:


Also nicknamed "Il Moror"
Ludovico Sforza (1452-1508) was the son of Francesco Sforza (1401-1466), the first member of the family to reign as Duke of Milan

Duncey

What is your point?

Sforza was of Moorish descend. His roots were in Africa, where cometh the Muurs.

He self-identified as a Moor. He was dark skined like a Moor.

You need to read a little bit better...

 -

quote:
Lodovico was called the Moor because of his complexion; he was very dark in colour and his origin derived from the original black Moors of Europe the first and only legitimate Kings. Contemporaries described him as the dark complected Ludovico the Moor. See Edgar Leoni, “Nostradamus and his Prophecies, by Nostradamus” p. 553.
[Big Grin] [Big Grin]

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/lodovico-sforza-the-muurish-duke-of-milan-who-invented-the-european-renaissance-oguejiofo-annu/


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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:

Ludovico Sforza was of Moorish descend. His roots were in Africa

no he wasn't of Moorish descent. Stop making up stuff

quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:


You need to read a little bit better...

Lodovico was called the Moor because of his complexion; he was very dark in colour and his origin derived from the original black Moors of Europe the first and only legitimate Kings. Contemporaries described him as the dark complected Ludovico the Moor. See Edgar Leoni, “Nostradamus and his Prophecies, by Nostradamus” p. 553. [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/lodovico-sforza-the-muurish-duke-of-milan-who-invented-the-european-renaissance-oguejiofo-annu/


He self-identified as a Moor. He was dark skinned like a Moor.


No he didn't self identify as a Moor. People nicknamed him "Il Moro" to make fun of his swarthy complexion, you need to read moor
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^^Duncey

Etymology of Swarthy and Muurish:

Nordic: Svarti meaning Black

Germanic: Schwartz meaning Black

English: Swarthy meaning Black

So Schwartzman, Schwarzenneger, or Swarthy complected man, all talking about the same man you fear the most:

The Muur. The Muir, the Moors, the Maurs, il Moro!

In Greek, Maur means black. In latin and all its derivative languages, Moro means Blackman. In English Muurish refers to a black man's national origin.

African continent is where Mauritania lies, and Co-Moros and Moro-cco, and Mara-kesh. The Muurish country.

The Muur was the only European who ever had swarty complexion.

You know the Muur already. This man here:

Stained glass medallion depicting the arms of Tucher, Nuremburg, Germany, 1500-99. Museum no. C.101-1934 (Roundel)
 -

[Cool]

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the lioness,
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.


____________________________________SWARTHY_____________________________  -

quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
Duncey

Ethymology of Swarthy:

Nordic: Svarti meaning Black

Germanic: Schwartz meaning Black

English: Swarthy meaning Black

So Schwartzman, Schwarzenneger, or Swarthy complected man, all talking about the same man you fear the most:

The Muur.

The Muur was the only European who ever had swarty complexion.



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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
.


____________________________________SWARTHY_____________________________

quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
Duncey

Ethymology of Swarthy:

Nordic: Svarti meaning Black

Germanic: Schwartz meaning Black

English: Swarthy meaning Black

So Schwartzman, Schwarzenneger, or Swarthy complected man, all talking about the same man you fear the most:

The Muur.

The Muur was the only European who ever had swarty complexion.



Original King Schwartze

Nuremberg Germany

 -

[Razz]

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Sicilians were born by the Muurz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_svnsF5OLbI

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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
.


____________________________________SWARTHY_____________________________

quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
Duncey

Ethymology of Swarthy:

Nordic: Svarti meaning Black

Germanic: Schwartz meaning Black

English: Swarthy meaning Black

So Schwartzman, Schwarzenneger, or Swarthy complected man, all talking about the same man you fear the most:

The Muur.

The Muur was the only European who ever had swarty complexion.



Original King Schwartze

Nuremberg Germany

 -

[Razz]

schwartze:

A german word meaning "black", but was incorporated into American Jewish slang to be a derogatory term towards black people.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=schwartze


1. schwartza

Yiddish or German term meaning "black person". It is not a hateful term.

Shaquille O'Neal is considered a schwartza since he is a black man.

2. schwartza

A Yiddish term that American Jews use to call a black person a "nigger" without them knowing. It is extremely derogatory.

Dad, why did you call Kobe Bryant a dumb schwartza when he hit the winning shot against us?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=schwartza

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IronLion
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The Moorish Kings of Europe:

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-moorish-kings-of-europe-youtube/


Moorish Central Europe

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/moorish-europe-the-dark-ages-central-europe/


Bratislava, 1520
 -

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Egmond Codfried
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You are obviously not some stupid, ignorant trash, but you need to make yourself clear, and do not act like we are into mumbo jumbo. Blacks have invented science, and the scientific method is how knowledge is conveyed. You speak about secret libraries, which you saw? Where are they, what is their catalogue. Are there any secret books not found in Picarta??

quote:
A good and solid knowledge of Muurish history and science is the final gate to liberation of mind, soul and body.
quote:
I am neither the originator nor the inventor of any hypothesis nor theory. I don't need to rebuild the wheel. That was already done by the Masters. I am just a messenger.
Who are these mysterious Masters? I would like to find out more about them to add to my proper, open, rational research.

quote:
Tune in to the Moorish Science Temple libraries.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1478-1913.1947.tb02472.x/abstract

I dutifully followed your words and this is what popped up.

quote:
European Muurish Royalty
[This cup is part of the Moritzburg Treasure.]

I have pointed out that this is part of the Moritzburg Treasure, not a true person, but a symbolic Moor.

How do you follow up? Are you mistaken? Am I mistaken?


quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
Muurish German Kings

Nuremberg Musuem:

 -

What is the contents of this book? Is the cover the content?
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quote:
Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
You are obviously not some stupid, ignorant trash, but you need to make yourself clear, and do not act like we are into mumbo jumbo. Blacks have invented science, and the scientific method is how knowledge is conveyed. You speak about secret libraries, which you saw? Where are they, what is their catalogue. Are there any secret books not found in Picarta??

quote:
A good and solid knowledge of Muurish history and science is the final gate to liberation of mind, soul and body.
quote:
I am neither the originator nor the inventor of any hypothesis nor theory. I don't need to rebuild the wheel. That was already done by the Masters. I am just a messenger.
Who are these mysterious Masters? I would like to find out more about them to add to my proper, open, rational research.

quote:
Tune in to the Moorish Science Temple libraries.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1478-1913.1947.tb02472.x/abstract

I dutifully followed your words and this is what popped up.

quote:
European Muurish Royalty
[This cup is part of the Moritzburg Treasure.]

I have pointed out that this is part of the Moritzburg Treasure, not a true person, but a symbolic Moor.

How do you follow up? Are you mistaken? Am I mistaken?


quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
Muurish German Kings

Nuremberg Musuem:

 -

What is the contents of this book? Is the cover the content?

I don't know what you are talking about secret libraries. I have never been to one, have you? Never even mentioned it anywhere on this thread so why bring it up?

Actually, the scientific method was laid down by a Muur named Ibn al-Haytham or AlHacen. You do not need to re-invent the wheel, like I said.

The masters? Have you heard of Noble Drew Ali? Have you heard of Moorish Scientist Hakim Bey? Have you studied with Alim Bey? Their works are freely accessible on the net, especially their Youtube presentations. Follow up on them.

The moritzburg treasure is not a symbol of a non-existent person. It is the image of one of the Muurish Elites of Europe. It is better art work than existed in its time.

Is your theory then, that all the Muurish heads we find in European heraldry, all the castles bearing the iamges of Muurish Kings, are all symbolic? You missed the train then if so.

The Muurs of Europe were real people. They lived and ruled in Europe for thousands of years. They had different kingdoms and empires including Greece, Rome, Holy Roman Empire, and Islamic Spain. They founded Ireland, England and Scotland. They were in France, lower Germany, Fries-Land, Rhineland, Serbia, Monte Negro, Romania, Bratislava, way up to Russia.

If you went to any library and asked the librarian to provide you older books like those written by Thomas Shore, David MacRitchie, Godwin Higgins and such, you would have begun your research on solid grounds.

The Moorish Science is a huge movement of many millions of people across many continents. Pulling up one website about Moorish Koran is not proof of your diligence or interest in the subject. Search more, it has taken me more than 20 years of diligence to acquire my knowledge. I don't think I could pass it all on to you in one thread on ES. Besides, you have a responsibility to yourself to follow up on clues. You have to see it with your own eyes not mine.

In deciphering sources of history we have to note the differnt types in existence such as: written historical comments (often susceptible to manipulation and bias), artefacts (not as easily susceptible), culture, dance, music, religion, pictures, liturgy, languages, population genetics, skeletal remains.

It takes a careful analysis and synthesis of those sources, to present a hypothesis....

That is the real Muurish science.

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Egmond Codfried
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You are not making much sense. I asked you to name some of your sources, not all, just some. Now thankfully you did name some.
But you are still sounding like some secret society who knows everything, and you are the messenger like you are suffering from some godlike/ jesuslike complex. That's not scientific. I ask questions, because I do not know everything, nor do I want te research everything.
You offer to inform us, well thank you for that, but kindly do so in a proper way, not insulting our intelligence. You might have understood I'm not a white person, nor have I been raised and educated in Europe, so I have escaped many impediments these people suffer from, which they display everyday on this forum.
How do you know the The Moritzburg treasure presents a real person, a real king. How do you know this? Have you did any research on this very object?
I'm operating under the idea there is strenght in numbers, I'm looking for ways to enhance the acceptance of our ideas. Fighting you would be the last thing on my mind. But really: a bit of cause and effect would be very welcome. And can you explain me why with twenty years of back breaking research you remain anonymous. Don't you want credit for your labours?

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
[QB] You are obviously not some stupid, ignorant trash, but you need to make yourself clear, and do not act like we are into mumbo jumbo. Blacks have invented science, and the scientific method is how knowledge is conveyed. You speak about secret libraries, which you saw? Where are they, what is their catalogue. Are there any secret books not found in Picarta??

quote:
A good and solid knowledge of Muurish history and science is the final gate to liberation of mind, soul and body.
quote:
I am neither the originator nor the inventor of any hypothesis nor theory. I don't need to rebuild the wheel. That was already done by the Masters. I am just a messenger.
Who are these mysterious Masters? I would like to find out more about them to add to my proper, open, rational research.

quote:
Tune in to the Moorish Science Temple libraries.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1478-1913.1947.tb02472.x/abstract

I dutifully followed your words and this is what popped up.


Egmond here is a link to the primary book of the Moorish Science Temple that is discussed in the book link above. (Readable online)

The Holy Koran of the Moorish Science Temple

(aka Circle 7 Koran)

http://hermetic.com/bey/7koran.html

^^^^^^^


 -
Noble Drew Ali
 -
Attendees of the 1928 Moorish Science Temple Conclave in Chicago. Noble Drew Ali is in the front row center.

The Moorish Science Temple of America is an American religious organization founded in the early 20th century by Timothy Drew. Although presented as a sect of Islam, the Moorish Science Temple also draws inspiration from Buddhism, Christianity, Freemasonry, Gnosticism and Taoism to present a message of self-determination, personal transformation, indigenous identity in the Western Hemisphere, indigenous pride, uplift, civic involvement, and self-sufficiency. One primary tenet is the belief that African-Americans are of Moorish ancestry, specifically from Morocco and, in their religious texts, adherents refer to themselves as "Asiatics".
The Moorish Science Temple of America was incorporated under the Illinois Religious Corporation Act 805 ILCS 110. Timothy Drew, calling himself the Prophet Noble Drew Ali, founded the Moorish Science Temple in 1913 in New Jersey. After some difficulties, Drew moved to Chicago, establishing a center there as well as temples in other major cities, where it expanded rapidly during the late 1920s. The quick expansion of the Moorish Science Temple arose in large part from the search for identity and context among black Americans.
Competing factions developed among the congregations and leaders, especially after the death of the charismatic Noble Drew Ali, and led to at least three separate organizations. The founding of the Nation of Islam by Wallace Fard Muhammad also created competition for members. In the 1930s membership was estimated at 30,000, with one third in Chicago. During the postwar years, the Moorish Science Temple of America continued to increase in membership, albeit at a slower rate.
By the late 20th century, demographic and cultural changes had decreased the attraction of young people to the Moorish Science Temple of America. In the early 2000s, it is estimated that presently there may be 800 adherents in four major cities, although the organization itself states it has 260 temples nationwide.
Timothy Drew was born on January 8, 1886 in North Carolina, USA. Accounts of Timothy Drew's ancestry variously described his being the son of two former slaves who was adopted by a tribe of Cherokees or the son of a Moroccan Muslim father and a Cherokee mother.
Founding the Moorish Science Temple

Drew reported that during his travels, he met with a high priest of Egyptian magic. In one version of Drew's biography, the leader saw him as a reincarnation of the founder, while in others, the priest considered Drew a reincarnation of Jesus, the Buddha, Muhammad and other religious prophets. According to the biography, the high priest trained Drew in mysticism and gave him a lost section of the Koran.
This text came to be known as the Holy Koran of the Moorish Science Temple of America (which is not to be confused with the Quran). It is also known as the "Circle Seven Koran" because of its cover, which features a red "7" surrounded by a blue circle.
The first nineteen chapters are borrowed from The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, published in 1908 by esoteric Ohio preacher Levi Dowling, the latter 24 chapters are from a Rosicrucian text, Unto Thee I Grant

 -  -
Levi Dowling


 -


In The Aquarian Gospel, Dowling described Jesus's supposed travels in India, Egypt, and Palestine during the 18 years of his life which are not accounted for by the New Testament. Drew and his followers used this material to claim, "Jesus and his followers were Asiatic." ("Asiatic" was the term Drew used for all dark or olive-colored people; he labeled all whites as European. He suggested that all Asiatics should be allied.)


The aquarian gospel of Jesus the Christ
the philosophic and practical basis of the religion of the aquarian age of the world and of the church universal, transcribed from the book of God's remembrances, known as the Akashic records
by Levi


readable link:

http://archive.org/stream/aquariangospelj00levigoog#page/n10/mode/2up


Drew crafted Moorish Science from a variety of sources, a "network of alternative spiritualities that focused on the power of the individual to bring about personal transformation through mystical knowledge of the divine within". In the inter-war years in Chicago and other major cities, Drew used these concepts to preach racial pride and uplift. His approach appealed to thousands of African-Americans who had left severely oppressive conditions in the South and faced struggles in new urban environments.[8]
Drew claimed to have been anointed Noble Drew Ali, the Prophet. He launched into his career as head of the Moorish Science Temple of America. Drew taught his followers to "face east when praying, regard Friday as their holy day, and call their god Allah and their leader Prophet. Moorish-Americans are not obligated to follow Islam completely. They pray five times a day, and travel to Mecca only if they choose to do so. Many hymns sung are recognizable as adapted from traditional Christian hymns common in black churches.
[edit]Practices

Drew stated that African Americans were all descended from the ancient inhabitants of Moab (ancient Moabites), that Islam and its teachings are more beneficial to their earthly salvation, and that their true nature had been withheld from them. In the traditions he founded, male members of the Temple wear a fez as head covering; women wear a turban. They added the suffixes Bey or El to their surnames, to signify Moorish heritage as well as their taking on the new life as Moorish Americans. It was also a way to claim and proclaim a new identity other than that lost to slavery of their ancestors in the United States. Thus a Moor could accept that his African tribal name may never be known to him/her, and that the European names they were given were not theirs, either.
As Drew began his version of teaching the Moorish-Americans to become better citizens, he made speeches in which he urged them to reject derogatory labels, such as "Black", "colored", and "Negro". He urged Americans of all races to reject hate and embrace love. He believed that Chicago would become a second Mecca.
The ushers of the Temple wore black fezzes. The leader of a particular temple was known as a Grand Sheik, or Governor. Drew Ali was known to have had several wives. According to the Chicago Defender, he took the power to marry and divorce at will.

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Egmond Codfried
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Is Ironlion member of this cult?
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:


quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
Muurish German Kings

Nuremberg Musuem:

 -

What is the contents of this book? Is the cover the content? [/QB]
He doesn't know
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
Is Ironlion member of this cult?

I don't know if he resides near one of their temples but you could call him a follower
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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:


quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
Muurish German Kings

Nuremberg Musuem:

 -

What is the contents of this book? Is the cover the content?

He doesn't know [/QB]
I was waiting for your idiocy on this subject that is why it took me so long.

Would you guess at the material used for the book binding?

I'm sure you know. [Big Grin]

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
Is Ironlion member of this cult?

My leaders taught me to seek knowledge. They said unto I:

"Seek ye cognizance, knowledge and wisdom, all the time;

Whether it be hidden in hell, or in the lofty heights of the heavens."

You should not be quick to judge or stereotype anyone or groups. Especially yourself, that has suffered many times from stereotyping.

Golden Rule: Do unto others as you wish others to do unto you! [Cool]

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
....As Drew began his version of teaching the Moorish-Americans to become better citizens, he made speeches in which he urged them to reject derogatory labels, such as "Black", "colored", and "Negro". He urged Americans of all races to reject hate and embrace love. He believed that Chicago would become a second Mecca.

The ushers of the Temple wore black fezzes. The leader of a particular temple was known as a Grand Sheik, or Governor. Drew Ali was known to have had several wives. According to the Chicago Defender, he took the power to marry and divorce at will.

Obama rose from Chicago... Muurish mysticism [Big Grin]

 -

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
You are not making much sense. I asked you to name some of your sources, not all, just some. Now thankfully you did name some.
But you are still sounding like some secret society who knows everything, and you are the messenger like you are suffering from some godlike/ jesuslike complex. ...

Egmond

The Muurs know about you. We are watching over you everday to make sure you are safe. You may not realize it but we are there by your side everyday....

quote:
As a response Codfried writes: "Part of the Moritzburg Treasure (Renaissance), , with a gold and silver cup in the form of a Moor's head, which was used at high nobility marriages. Why Moor's head? The Moor was apparently in high regard."



We have decided to share this with the Moorish Members of in the Moorish College regarding the Black nobility in Europe especially? According to black Dutch researcher Egmond Codfried and author of the book "Belle van Zuylen's forgotten grandmother" there was Moorish nobility in Europe, but there history and images were later carefully tucked away. His claims are controversial, and of course not accepted by European historians and the common man.

Codfried has systematically studied hundreds of paintings of famous and less famous nobility. He regularly stumbled upon people who looked black or coloured, or although they were white, clearly had African facial features.

About his work he writes: “This study of historical sources and literature on black and coloured historic persons was inspired by the chance finding of a portrait of Maria Jacoba van Goor


http://clockofdestiny.com/mh.htm
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anguishofbeing
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^ you are a paid informant. Quite simply, a fraud.

hysterical rants will now follow:  -

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