quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Mainly Son Of Ra, I come here to defend White European history from the likes of Mike & his ilk, that they will not be able to attempt to steal it without it going unchallenged. As far as joining a White nationalist forum, I am a member of Stromfront but rarely post as I have been placed on permanent moderation for calling another member a racist. I admit I'm not very up to date on genetics. I never post in AE threads even though I read them to learn more about them. Besides the majority of the forum are Black and I'm sure they have no interest in White European history.
I don't mind learning about European history. I am actually a fan of the Romans and Byzantines.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged |
he posts an article an thinks it's arguing for him
hiding behind this stuff ttying to look smart
Typical Appalachian impostor black woman response, hiding behind multiple account and screen names like the coward you are.
Of course the paper is arguing for me, as it explains the recent migration of modern Europeans into Europe.
"Ancient DNA Reveals Prehistoric Gene-Flow from Siberia in the Complex Human Population History of North East Europe"!
"Here, we analysed the mitochondrial DNA of prehistoric remains from archaeological sites dated to 7,500 and 3,500 years Before Present.
These sites are located in North East Europe, a region that displays a significant cultural and linguistic diversity today but for which no ancient human DNA was available before."
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Mainly Son Of Ra, I come here to defend White European history from the likes of Mike & his ilk, that they will not be able to attempt to steal it without it going unchallenged. As far as joining a White nationalist forum, I am a member of Stromfront but rarely post as I have been placed on permanent moderation for calling another member a racist. I admit I'm not very up to date on genetics. I never post in AE threads even though I read them to learn more about them. Besides the majority of the forum are Black and I'm sure they have no interest in White European history.
Doxie the dumbass. You aren't that bright!
You aren't defending anything, you are ranting nonsense all day and posting your pseudo B.S Appalachian opinion.
And of course you're a member on stormfront, what's new? lol
Stop pretending...
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: I don't mind learning about European history. I am actually a fan of the Romans and Byzantines.
the Romans were decadent warring slave masters.
but they had nice outfits
This passage has been cited in many books, it's actually quote intriguing.
Caesar, in writing home, said of the Britons, “They are the most ignorant people I have ever conquered. They cannot be taught music.” Cicero, in writing to his friend Atticus, advised him not to buy slaves in England, “because,” said he, “they cannot be taught to read, and are the ugliest and most stupid race I ever saw.”
William Wells Brown (1863), The Black Man: His Antecedents, His Genius, and His Achievements (Boston: James Redpath), pp. 33-4; quoted on p. 92 by Mia Bay (2000), The White Image in the Black Mind: African American Ideas About White People, 1830-1925 (Oxford: Oxford University Press: 019510045X).
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Troll Patrol honey, I'm smarter than you are Black racist moron. My IQ is 108 and what may I ask is YOUR IQ Black racist punk??? BTW, you really need to stop making accusations towards people you do not know with no proof. Now that you explained to Lioness what you meant by your post, I understand. So tell me ohhh great Black one, where exactly did these recent modern European immigrants come from, what were their tribal names, what language/s did they speak & who was there before them? Also provide PROOF.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: I don't mind learning about European history. I am actually a fan of the Romans and Byzantines.
the Romans were decadent warring slave masters.
but they had nice outfits
This passage has been cited in many books, it's actually quote intriguing.
Caesar, in writing home, said of the Britons, “They are the most ignorant people I have ever conquered. They cannot be taught music.” Cicero, in writing to his friend Atticus, advised him not to buy slaves in England, “because,” said he, “they cannot be taught to read, and are the ugliest and most stupid race I ever saw.”
William Wells Brown (1863), The Black Man: His Antecedents, His Genius, and His Achievements (Boston: James Redpath), pp. 33-4; quoted on p. 92 by Mia Bay (2000), The White Image in the Black Mind: African American Ideas About White People, 1830-1925 (Oxford: Oxford University Press: 019510045X).
what is the point you are trying to make?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Troll Patrol honey, I'm smarter than you are Black racist moron. My IQ is 108 and what may I ask is YOUR IQ Black racist punk??? BTW, you really need to stop making accusations towards people you do not know with no proof. Now that you explained to Lioness what you meant by your post, I understand. So tell me ohhh great Black one, where exactly did these recent modern European immigrants come from, what were their tribal names, what language/s did they speak & who was there before them? Also provide PROOF.
First off all, you're not in the position to call anyone a racist. And certainly not a black person. Since it's you who is the racist (and your ilk of course). I actually cite sources and don't make up some fairy tales, like you tend to do.
Second, it's only 108 you mean to say. But considering your insufficient rantings I doubt this is actually true.
I am a Mensa and my I.Q. 135 score was years ago, go figure.
And since your I.Q. score is 108 you should be able to understand the study I've posted, this however was not the case. Probably due to disability of interpreting the paper.
You are even too stupid to understand the real analogy and ethnology of the word cracker. So you described your favorite stormfront interpretation on how your ancestors whipped backs of African Americans their ancestors, you bragged and boosted so much. And therefore are called cracker. Which is off of course.
But since you love to call yourself one as you vividly claimed. I will call this from now one, ok cracker!?
So try to understand who's the racist here, dumb Appalachian.
Your first post ever here that I saw was in support of "aryan members", who were planning to go and kill blacks."
Such support and references has popped up many times from your side.
And for your apprehension, I have reposted the same paragraphs.
You are laughable at best. But since you "now finally" understand it, you should completely STFU from now on. When it's mentioned that modern Europeans originate from Central Asia. You low I.Q. lying Appalachian bigot.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: I don't mind learning about European history. I am actually a fan of the Romans and Byzantines.
the Romans were decadent warring slave masters.
but they had nice outfits
This passage has been cited in many books, it's actually quote intriguing.
Caesar, in writing home, said of the Britons, “They are the most ignorant people I have ever conquered. They cannot be taught music.” Cicero, in writing to his friend Atticus, advised him not to buy slaves in England, “because,” said he, “they cannot be taught to read, and are the ugliest and most stupid race I ever saw.”
William Wells Brown (1863), The Black Man: His Antecedents, His Genius, and His Achievements (Boston: James Redpath), pp. 33-4; quoted on p. 92 by Mia Bay (2000), The White Image in the Black Mind: African American Ideas About White People, 1830-1925 (Oxford: Oxford University Press: 019510045X).
what is the point you are trying to make?
Isn't the point obvious? What's your I.Q. measurement?
It says Britons during classic times weren't too bright. And this was stated by nice outfit wearing decadent Romans who enslaved fellow Europeans.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sorry Troll Patrol but you are NOT going to silence me you stupid Black racist pos. As far as that post of mine on the thread you posted a link to, I only defended their right to own guns, practice shooting, train in self defense. LOL, I posted ALL the meanings of the word cracker you dumb ass not just one so lie again. Boy you come up with some whoppers Troll Patrol, you are about as Mensa as I am the Queen Of Sheba and I can't be the Queen Of Sheba because I'm not Black LOL. You are the racist & bigot Troll Patrol, when have I ever stated Blacks were inferior, when have I stated I hate Black people? I have never stated either but YOU & your ilk have about White people. So where are these Central Asian Whites, what were their tribal names, what language/s did they speak, where are the artifacts proving they were there, where is the genetics proof, cultural proof and NO I do not accept the anti-white Shriver's findings as the company he uses for his DNA testing is known to be not reputable.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: I don't mind learning about European history. I am actually a fan of the Romans and Byzantines.
the Romans were decadent warring slave masters.
but they had nice outfits
This passage has been cited in many books, it's actually quote intriguing.
Caesar, in writing home, said of the Britons, “They are the most ignorant people I have ever conquered. They cannot be taught music.” Cicero, in writing to his friend Atticus, advised him not to buy slaves in England, “because,” said he, “they cannot be taught to read, and are the ugliest and most stupid race I ever saw.”
William Wells Brown (1863), The Black Man: His Antecedents, His Genius, and His Achievements (Boston: James Redpath), pp. 33-4; quoted on p. 92 by Mia Bay (2000), The White Image in the Black Mind: African American Ideas About White People, 1830-1925 (Oxford: Oxford University Press: 019510045X).
what is the point you are trying to make?
Isn't the point obvious? What's your I.Q. measurement?
It says Britons during classic times weren't too bright. And this was stated by nice outfit wearing decadent Romans who enslaved fellow Europeans.
If I put up a comment about the Romans why are you putting up a Roman quote claiming the ancient Britons were stupid? Why if Son of Ra and I were talking about the Romans do you switch to the ancient Celtic people, the Britons and claim they are stupid? What's the point of that?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Sorry Troll Patrol but you are NOT going to silence me you stupid Black racist pos. As far as that post of mine on the thread you posted a link to, I only defended their right to own guns, practice shooting, train in self defense. LOL, I posted ALL the meanings of the word cracker you dumb ass not just one so lie again. Boy you come up with some whoppers Troll Patrol, you are about as Mensa as I am the Queen Of Sheba and I can't be the Queen Of Sheba because I'm not Black LOL. You are the racist & bigot Troll Patrol, when have I ever stated Blacks were inferior, when have I stated I hate Black people? I have never stated either but YOU & your ilk have about White people. So where are these Central Asian Whites, what were their tribal names, what language/s did they speak, where are the artifacts proving they were there, where is the genetics proof, cultural proof and NO I do not accept the anti-white Shriver's findings as the company he uses for his DNA testing is known to be not reputable.
My point is not to silence you, my point is to expose your stupidity. My point is to keep you going...
The summery of that story your keep asking for is posted in that study. Dumb Appalachian. The first modern Europeans were the Saami people, why keep acting as if it was never posted. It's also posted and explained in that other thread.
But I will summarize it for you once more:
quote: Coalescent simulations
In coalescent simulation analyses we considered the ancient populations of aUzPo, aBOO, Central/East/Scandinavian European hunter-gatherers (aHG [12], [14], aPWC [13]), and the modern populations of NEE, CE, and Saami (saa). Population statistics (haplotype diversity and fixation indexes, FST) for the ancient and extant populations were calculated in Arlequin version 3.11 (Table 2, [91]).
And it is you who is the racist. It's you who is denying the spread of the Paleolithic and Neolithic African into Europe. If this is mentioned; your twisted sick mind calls someone a "racist". As if that is actually racism...? Look into your history and see "true" racism is towards the Amerindian and the African American you idiot. Look what you ilk has done...and what your so called the right to "carry arms" has lead to. It's racism in its purest form.
quote: "...the Cro-Magnons, the presumed ancestors of modern Europeans....were more like present-day Australians or Africans..."
--Chris Stringer, African Exodus ((Michael Witzel, The Origins of the World's Mythologies) 2013)
quote:"The so-called Old Man [Cro-Magnon 1] became the original model for what was once termed the Cro-Magnon or Upper Paleolithic "race" of Europe.. there's no such valid biological category, and Cro-Magnon 1 is not typical of Upper Paleolithic western Europeans- and not even all that similar to the other two make skulls found at the site. Most of the genetic evidence, as well as the newest fossil evidence from Africa argue against continuous local evolution producing modern groups directly from any Eurasian pre-modern population.. there's no longer much debate that a large genetic contribution from migrating early modern Africans infuenced other groups throughout the Old World.“
--B. Lewis et al. 2008. Understanding Humans: Introduction to Physical
quote: If this analysis shows nothing else, it demonstrates that the oft-repeated European feeling that the Cro-Magnons are “us” (47) is more a product of anthropological folklore than the result of the metric data available from the skeletal remains.
--C. Loring Brace(2006) The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form
quote: It has been proposed that heat adapted, relatively long-legged Homo sapiens from Africa replaced the cold adapted, relatively short-legged Homo neandertalensis of the Levant and Europe
--J Hum Evol 32 (1997a) 423], Bogin B, Rios L. et al.
quote: The subsequent post-28,000-B.P. Gravettian human sample of Europe includes numerous associated skeletons (Table 2) (Zilhão & Trinkaus 2002). Most of these specimens are fully modern in their morphology, and there is a persistence in them of both linear (equatorial) limb proportions and more "African" nasal morphology (Trinkaus 1981, Holliday 1997, Franciscus 2003). However, one Iberian specimen (Lagar Velho 1) exhibits Neandertal limb segment proportions and a series of relatively archaic cranial and postcranial features (Trinkaus & Zilhão 2002). In addition, central incisor shoveling, ubiquitous among the Neandertals, absent in the Qafzeh-Skhul sample, and variably present in the earlier European sample, persists at modest frequencies. And scapular axillary border dorsal sulci, an apparently Neandertal feature also absent in the Qafzeh-Skhul sample, is present
--Trinkaus 2005
quote: "Nor does the picture get any clearer when we move on to the Cro-Magnons, the presumed ancestors of modern Europeans. Some looked more like present-day Australians or Africans, judged by OBJECTIVE anatomical categorizations, as is the case with some early modern skulls from the Upper Cave at Zhoukoudian in China."
-- Am J Phys Anthropol. 1975 May;42(3):351-69,
quote:In modern humans, this elongation is a pattern characteristic of warm-adapted populations, and this physique may be an early Cro-Magnon retention from African ancestors. Similar retentions may be observed in certain indices of facial shape [ ...]
--Encyclopedia of Human Evolution and Prehistory: Second Edition by Eric Delson
quote:"others like Predomost and to a lesser degree Grimaldi and Teviec, are more prognathic like Skhul 5."
--Marta Mirazón Lahr. 2005. The Evolution of Modern Human Diversity:
And no, you did not post all so called meanings of the word cracker, you stupid cracker. You posted a delusional stormfront version. Lemme' repost it for ya', lemme' remind ya' on the actual etymology.
quote:"Cracker," the old standby of Anglo insults was first noted in the mid 18th century, making it older than the United States itself. It was used to refer to poor whites, particularly those inhabiting the frontier regions of Maryland, Virginia and Georgia. It is suspected that it was a shortened version of "whip-cracker," since the manual labor they did involved driving livestock with a whip (not to mention the other brutal arenas where those skills were employed.) Over the course of time it came to represent a person of lower caste or criminal disposition, (in some instances, was used in reference to bandits and other lawless folk.)
-Southern U.S. derogatory term for "poor, white trash" (1766), probably from mid-15c. crack "to boast" (e.g. not what it's cracked up to be), originally a Scottish word. Cf. Latin crepare "to rattle, crack, creak," with a secondary figurative sense of "boast of, prattle, make ado about.
Not so glorious after all, isn't it?
Where have I stated that "whites are inferior"? Your problem is that I don't see you as superior!
However, the irony is that whenever you type a long dreary text, it's always nonsense ranting, like you're doing now again. Not once deep insight into scientific evaluation, with that so called I.Q. 108? Go fool someone else, ok!
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
This lecture was delivered by Dr. Ian Tattersall at The Metropolitan Museum of Art on the occasion of the symposium "Genesis: Exploration of Origins" on March 7, 2003. This symposium was held in conjunction with the special exhibition, "Genesis: Ideas of Origin in African Sculpture," and was made possible through the support of The Ford Foundation.
quote:At about 40,000 years ago, however, Homo sapiens, in the form of the Cro-Magnons, began trickling into Europe, probably from an initially African place of origin.
[...]
It was brought with them by the Cro-Magnons, whose new qualities had emerged elsewhere. Probably this was in Africa, for it is from this continent that we have not just the first suggestions of the emergence of modern anatomical structure, but of modern behaviors as well.
[...]
The most remarkable early evidence of symbolic activity in Africa comes in the form of the recent find of engraved ochre plaques, such as this one, from Blombos Cave on the southern coast of Africa (Fig. 10). This is an unequivocally symbolic object, even if we cannot directly discern the significance of the geometric design that the plaque bears; and it is dated to around 70,000 years ago, over 30,000 years before anything equivalent is found in Europe.
To evidence such as this can be added suggestions of a symbolic organization of space at the site of Klasies River Mouth (Fig. 11), also near the southern tip of Africa, at over 100,000 years ago. Pierced shells, with the strong implication of stringing for body ornamentation, are known from Porc-Epic Cave in Ethiopia at around 70,000 years ago. Bone tools of the kind introduced much later to Europe by the Cro-Magnons, are found at the Congolese site of Katanda, dated to perhaps 80,000 years ago. Blade tool industries, again formerly associated principally with the Cro-Magnons, are found at least sporadically at sites in Africa that date to as much as a quarter of a million years ago. Also in the economic/technological realm, such activities as flint-mining, pigment-processing and long-distance trade in useful materials are documented in Africa up to about 100,000 years ago. These and other early African innovations are reviewed by McBrearty and Brooks (2000).
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: I don't mind learning about European history. I am actually a fan of the Romans and Byzantines.
the Romans were decadent warring slave masters.
but they had nice outfits
This passage has been cited in many books, it's actually quote intriguing.
Caesar, in writing home, said of the Britons, “They are the most ignorant people I have ever conquered. They cannot be taught music.” Cicero, in writing to his friend Atticus, advised him not to buy slaves in England, “because,” said he, “they cannot be taught to read, and are the ugliest and most stupid race I ever saw.”
William Wells Brown (1863), The Black Man: His Antecedents, His Genius, and His Achievements (Boston: James Redpath), pp. 33-4; quoted on p. 92 by Mia Bay (2000), The White Image in the Black Mind: African American Ideas About White People, 1830-1925 (Oxford: Oxford University Press: 019510045X).
what is the point you are trying to make?
Isn't the point obvious? What's your I.Q. measurement?
It says Britons during classic times weren't too bright. And this was stated by nice outfit wearing decadent Romans who enslaved fellow Europeans.
If I put up a comment about the Romans why are you putting up a Roman quote claiming the ancient Britons were stupid? Why if Son of Ra and I were talking about the Romans do you switch to the ancient Celtic people, the Britons and claim they are stupid? What's the point of that?
I am not claiming anything....
Except that I find it ironic Doxie and you almost always post sequentially.
Celts were Britons. And for the Romans, isn't it nice additional information?
Why take it so personal? Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor: I am not claiming anything....
Except that I find it ironic Doxie and you almost always post sequentially.
Celts were Britons. And for the Romans, isn't it nice additional information?
Why take it so personal? [/QB]
I notice on more than one occasion when I say things negative things about the Roman imperialists you change the subject and say the Celts were primitive and stupid.
I'm trying to figure out the motive, why you would become defensive about the Romans? Are you part Italian?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor: I am not claiming anything....
Except that I find it ironic Doxie and you almost always post sequentially.
Celts were Britons. And for the Romans, isn't it nice additional information?
Why take it so personal?
I notice on more than one occasion when I say things negative things about the Roman imperialists you change the subject and say the Celts were primitive and stupid.
I'm trying to figure out the motive, why you would become defensive about the Romans? Are you part Italian? [/QB]
quote: Handwriting is an individualistic craft and each scribe writes a little differently. However, over time the forms of letters and the style of writing have changed. Different styles have also developed for particular purposes, so that even in the same time and place, the handwriting of a majestic book of church liturgy, designed for reading aloud in solemn performance, may be different to that of a more modest book, and to that of a royal charter, and to that of a scribe in a court of law, and to that of a tired and irritable university student.
Two examples from one document showing the variations in hands between two scribes writing in essentially the same script, Caroline minuscule. The book is an 11th century manuscript, the Harley Psalter (British Library, Harley 603), by permission of the British Library.
Despite the variations, there are recognisable patterns of change which have occurred over time as writing has evolved. Styles of writing can be categorised into named scripts which can be identified as to their time and place of origin. Because of the natural variation and fluid relationships between these products of individual human creativity, the classification and nomenclature of scripts is somewhat variable. There are trends, developments of very different general categories of script, periods of diversification and periods of consolidation of styles. Change has sometimes occurred rapidly and sometimes slowly.
(See Bischoff 1990, also Brown 1990, also Jackson 1981, also Thompson 1912.)
The history of script changes reflects aspects of the history of the literate world. They are of interest not only to those who have a fascination for the changing shapes of letters, but to those with a more general interest in the history of social and cultural processes.
The scripts used by the Romans were used throughout the Empire and formed the basis for all later developments. After the fall of the Empire, surviving and reviving centres of literacy developed a diversity of scripts based on the Roman model. The script known as Caroline minuscule was developed in the revival of literacy and Classical culture which occurred under the Emperor Charlemagne. This became a standard across much of literate Europe by the 10th century. A new wave of diversification began in northern France and the Low Countries in the 11th century, resulting in the development of the large and diverse family of scripts known as Gothic. In the Renaissance period in Italy, a return to aspects of Classical culture included the revival of what were perceived as Classical scripts. This era represented the end of manuscript book production to any significant degree, although a range of stylised hands for document production remained in use.
posted
If we had been talking about Celts your comment would be related but we weren't tlaking about Celts. We were talking about Romans.
If you want to make a new thread on the topic that "the Celts were Primitve" go ahead (although you post a lot you make few threads relatively)
I'm trying to figure out the motive, why you would become defensive about the Romans and try to change the topic? Are you part Italian?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: If we had been talking about Celts your comment would be related but we weren't tlaking about Celts. We were talking about Romans.
If you want to make a new thread on the topic that "the Celts were Primitve" go ahead (although you post a lot you make few threads relatively)
I'm trying to figure out the motive, why you would become defensive about the Romans and try to change the topic? Are you part Italian?
I am trying to figure out the motive, if, you are part Turkish are you a Kurd?
Well, I was talking about Romans as well, after all. Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Troll Patrol, what do the Native Siberians in the pic you posted have to do with Whites? They are not Whites but look like Amerindians. Now for my questions here What were these Modern Whites in Central Asia's tribal names, what language/s did they speak, where are the artifacts proving they were there, where are the proofs of cultural similarity with the Central Asian populations, where are the mummies, skeletons that are proven to be White in that area. Answer these questions please and provide proof.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Troll Patrol, what do the Native Siberians in the pic you posted have to do with Whites? They are not Whites but look like Amerindians. Now for my questions here What were these Modern Whites in Central Asia's tribal names, what language/s did they speak, where are the artifacts proving they were there, where are the proofs of cultural similarity with the Central Asian populations, where are the mummies, skeletons that are proven to be White in that area. Answer these questions please and provide proof.
quote:Comparisons of genetic data from ancient and modern-day populations revealed significant changes in the mitochondrial makeup of North East Europeans through time. Mesolithic foragers showed high frequencies and diversity of haplogroups U (U2e, U4, U5a), a pattern observed previously in European hunter-gatherers from Iberia to Scandinavia.
[...]
We identified remarkable genetic dissimilarities between prehistoric and modern-day North East Europeans/Saami, which suggests an important role of post-Mesolithic migrations from Western Europe and subsequent population replacement/extinctions. This work demonstrates how ancient DNA can improve our understanding of human population movements across Eurasia.
[...]
This work demonstrates how ancient DNA can improve our understanding of human population movements across Eurasia. It contributes to the description of the spatio-temporal distribution of mitochondrial diversity and will be of significance for future reconstructions of the history of Europeans.
[...]
First, ancestors of the Saami were suggested to have reached Fennoscandia from Western Europe along the Atlantic cast of Norway as part of the expansion of Mesolithic post-Ahrensburgian cultures (Fosna-Hensbacka and Komsa) in the early Holocene (~10,000–11,000 yBP). Alternatively, the Saami were proposed to find their origins in Mesolithic post-Swiderian cultures (Kunda, Veretye, Suomusjärvi), which had moved from Poland into NEE also in the early Holocene [24].
[...]
Further temporal population samples will be required, especially along the proposed alternative western migration route into sub-arctic Europe.
--Clio Der Sarkissian (2013)
Ancient DNA Reveals Prehistoric Gene-Flow from Siberia in the Complex Human Population History of North East Europe
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Troll Patrol, what do the Native Siberians in the pic you posted have to do with Whites? They are not Whites but look like Amerindians. Now for my questions here What were these Modern Whites in Central Asia's tribal names, what language/s did they speak, where are the artifacts proving they were there, where are the proofs of cultural similarity with the Central Asian populations, where are the mummies, skeletons that are proven to be White in that area. Answer these questions please and provide proof.
Genealogist Dr.Spencer Wells talks about Humans Genetics
quote: Although it was not possible to determine a contribution of Neolithic farmers to the Caucasian gene pool, the principal component analysis showed clear differences between these populations and those of Europe, Siberia and Asia. No evidence of correlation between genetic and linguistic data in our populations was disclosed.
Armenians are a separate ethnic group, which originated from Neolithic tribes of the Armenian Uplands. In the 12th- 11th centuries BC...
However, we cannot exclude a Neolithic contribution to the contemporary gene pool. The possible reason for the absence of the frequency distribution gradient can be genetic drift, reinforced by isolation that could conceal the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasus populations [1,21].
While an Alu insertion marker does not have enough power of resolution to assess the contribution of the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasian gene pool, it clearly separates both South and North Caucasus populations (except Karanogays) from Siberian and Asian populations.
--Litvinov S* et al.
BJMG 11/2 (2008) 25-30 10.2478/v10034-008-0030-0
ALU INSERTION POLYMORPHISMS IN POPULATIONS OF THE SOUTH CAUCASUS
quote: ".. it appears that Europeans are about two-thirds Asians and one-third African."
--Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza (2001). Genes, peoples and languages. FARRAR STRAUS AND GIROUX Publishers
Science 20 April 2007: Vol. 316 no. 5823 p. 364 DOI: 10.1126/science.316.5823.364a
NEWS FOCUS
AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGISTS MEETING European Skin Turned Pale Only Recently, Gene Suggests Ann Gibbons
PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA-- At the American Association of Physical Anthropologists meeting, held here from 28 to 31 March, a new report on the evolution of a gene for skin color suggested that Europeans acquired pale skin quite recently, perhaps only 6000 to 12,000 years ago. (Read more.)
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Troll Patrol, what do the Native Siberians in the pic you posted have to do with Whites? They are not Whites but look like Amerindians. Now for my questions here What were these Modern Whites in Central Asia's tribal names, what language/s did they speak, where are the artifacts proving they were there, where are the proofs of cultural similarity with the Central Asian populations, where are the mummies, skeletons that are proven to be White in that area. Answer these questions please and provide proof.
quote:
"If Africa was the cradle of mankind, then Central Asia was its nursery," said Wells.
Around 35,000 years ago, small groups left Central Asia for Europe. Cold temperatures kept them there.
Cut off from other groups, these migrants became paler and shorter than their African ancestors.
From there, around 20,000 years ago, another small group of Central Asians moved farther north, into Siberia and the Arctic Circle.
--Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey By Spencer Wells
posted
Once again Troll Patrol none of that has anything at all to do with my questions. Once again, what were these Modern Whites in Central Asia's tribal names, what language/s did they speak, where are the artifacts proving they were there, where are the proofs of cultural similarity with the Central Asian populations, where are the mummies & skeletons that are proven to be White in that area. Answer these questions please and provide proof.
Mike you better re-read that Black racist dumby. It says the migration IN Europe NOT into Europe you big dumby, meaning it was White European people moving from one part of Europe to another. Also I poo poo that reconstructed skull, how the heck can they reconstruct a skull out of a piece of jaw bone & a few fragments they can't.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Doxie dear, and lioness, so now you think White people evolved in Scandinavia?
I'm not addressing that right now. I'm addessing the fact that according to your own post that the Germans (and according to Tacitus 1st century remarks, who had blue eyes and red hair) were in the Scandinavia and or Germany region about 1,900 years before the Holy Roman empire that you said was Black on your website.
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Once again Troll Patrol none of that has anything at all to do with my questions. Once again, what were these Modern Whites in Central Asia's tribal names, what language/s did they speak, where are the artifacts proving they were there, where are the proofs of cultural similarity with the Central Asian populations, where are the mummies & skeletons that are proven to be White in that area. Answer these questions please and provide proof.
Mike you better re-read that Black racist dumby. It says the migration IN Europe NOT into Europe you big dumby, meaning it was White European people moving from one part of Europe to another. Also I poo poo that reconstructed skull, how the heck can they reconstruct a skull out of a piece of jaw bone & a few fragments they can't.
Cracker, you are stupid, no one knows what the tribal names were of those groups, 20 to 7 Ky.
And unlike you, I do provide valid sources. All you do is rant....but then again, you're an Appalachian so I don't expect a great scientific evaluation from your side.
-The modern Europeans don't have the same artifact, since these things evolve. For such similar items you need to look into the Nordic part of Europe, where modern Europeans first entered.
-And the cultural similarities have evolved distinctively, after such a long time. But I have never looked into the evolutionary process of these cultures, during the Holocene and Mesolithic time.
-Linguistically modern Europeans speak "Indo-European". Which is a skimmed version of Sanskrit. But in root words traces still can be found. Since Uralic is closer rooted in Sanskrit. And Uralic is the root of Nordic languages. Nordic languages are at the root of Germanic languages. English for example is linguistically branched in the Germanic phylum. English is a relatively young Germanic language. Therefore Sanskrit is the proto type. Making it, Proto-Indo-European.
quote: The author presents the linguistic history of the Uralic language family, comprising mainly hunter-gatherer populations on the northern fringes of Europe and western Siberia. The family also includes Finnish and Hungarian, both national languages today.
Standard Article 21 Northern Europe and Russia: Uralic linguistic history
I have posted peer reviewed sources by well known scientist who state what you have been questioning. I.e: from where do modern Europeans originate. Still you keep ranting the same rubbish.
Migration IN Europe means populating Europe, after they came from Central Asia into Europe. You dumb racist cracker!
quote: Magyar Origins offers a reasonable hypothesis that Hungarian and its related languages of Finnish and Estonian are related to Sanskrit, working out a proposed linguistic law that affected how Sanskrit words were absorbed into Hungarian. A finely researched blend of genealogy and language studies, Magyar Origins presents a strong and well-reasoned case.
[...]
Exploring both DNA and cultural evidence this book explores the possibility that Hungarian, and its related Uralic languages, evolved as a form of Sanskrit slang. Not evolving directly from Sanskrit but was the result of refugees fleeing to the Hindu Kush region and learning a new language before migrating north to Siberia.
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Once again Troll Patrol none of that has anything at all to do with my questions. Once again, what were these Modern Whites in Central Asia's tribal names, what language/s did they speak, where are the artifacts proving they were there, where are the proofs of cultural similarity with the Central Asian populations, where are the mummies & skeletons that are proven to be White in that area. Answer these questions please and provide proof.
Mike you better re-read that Black racist dumby. It says the migration IN Europe NOT into Europe you big dumby, meaning it was White European people moving from one part of Europe to another. Also I poo poo that reconstructed skull, how the heck can they reconstruct a skull out of a piece of jaw bone & a few fragments they can't.
What may be the oldest fragments of the modern human genome found yet have now been revealed — DNA from the 7,000-year-old bones of two cavemen unearthed in Spain, researchers say.
These findings suggest the cavemen there were not the ancestors of the people found in the region today, investigators added.
Scientists have recently sequenced the genomes of our closest extinct relatives, the Neanderthals and the Denisovans. When it came to our lineage, the oldest modern human genomes recovered yet came from Ötzi the Iceman, a 5,300-year-old mummy found in the Alps in 1991. Researchers have salvaged DNA from even older human cells, but this comes from the mitochondria that generate energy for our bodies, and not from the nucleus where our chromosomes are housed. (Mitochondrial DNA is passed down only by mothers.)
Now researchers have rescued fragments of genomes from the remains of two cavemen unearthed in northern Spain.
"These are the oldest partial genomes from modern human prehistory," researcher Carles Lalueza-Fox, a paleogeneticist at the Spanish National Research Council, told LiveScience.
The skeletons of two young adult males were discovered by chance in 2006 by cave explorers in a cavern high in the Cantabrian mountain range, whose main entrance is found at 4,920 feet (1,500 meters) altitude. Winters there are notably cold, which helped preserve the DNA in the bones.
These bones date back to the Mesolithic period, before agriculture spread to the Iberian Peninsula with Neolithic settlers from the Middle East. These cavemen were hunter-gatherers, judging by the ornament that one was found with of red-deer canines embroidered onto a cloth.
The scientists recovered 1.34 percent and 0.5 percent of the human genomes from the bones of these two cave men. Analyses revealed that current populations of the Iberian Peninsula, which includes Spain, Portugal and Andorra, are not genetically linked with these ancient hunter-gatherers. Instead, these cavemen were closer genetically to the current populations of northern Europe.
"There are many works that claim the Basques [of the Iberian Peninsula] could be descendants from Mesolithics that became isolated in the Basque country," Lalueza-Fox said. "We found the modern Basques are genetically not related to these two individuals."
The scientists also recovered the complete mitochondrial DNA of one of these cavemen. This revealed that European populations during the Mesolithic were very uniform genetically.
"Despite their geographical distance, individuals from the regions corresponding to the current England, Germany, Lithuania, Poland and Spain shared the same mitochondrial lineage," Lalueza-Fox said. "These hunters-gatherers shared nomadic habits and had a common origin."
The researchers now aim to complete the genomes of both cavemen. Such data could help "explore genes that have been modified with the arrival of the Neolithic in the European populations," Lalueza-Fox said.
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Once again Troll Patrol none of that has anything at all to do with my questions. Once again, what were these Modern Whites in Central Asia's tribal names, what language/s did they speak, where are the artifacts proving they were there, where are the proofs of cultural similarity with the Central Asian populations, where are the mummies & skeletons that are proven to be White in that area. Answer these questions please and provide proof.
Mike you better re-read that Black racist dumby. It says the migration IN Europe NOT into Europe you big dumby, meaning it was White European people moving from one part of Europe to another. Also I poo poo that reconstructed skull, how the heck can they reconstruct a skull out of a piece of jaw bone & a few fragments they can't.
Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins*1
Trenton W. Holliday
Department of Anthropology, The College of William and Mary, P.O. Box 8795, Williamsburg, Virginia 23187-8795, U.S.A.
Abstract
quote:Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins*1 Trenton W. Holliday Department of Anthropology, The College of William and Mary, P.O. Box 8795, Williamsburg, Virginia 23187-8795, U.S.A. Abstract Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenetic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow. Following these observations, competing models of modern human origins yield different predictions concerning body proportion shifts in Late Pleistocene Europe. Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess “tropical” body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering. This study tests these predictions via analyses of osteometric data reflective of trunk height and breadth, limb proportions and relative body mass for samples of Early Upper Paleolithic (EUP), Late Upper Paleolithic (LUP) and Mesolithic (MES) humans and 13 recent African and European populations. Results reveal a clear tendency for the EUP sample to cluster with recent Africans, while LUP and MES samples cluster with recent Europeans. These results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions. These data do not, however, preclude the possibility of some (albeit small) contribution of genes from Neandertals to succeeding populations, as is postulated in Bräuer’s “Afro-European Sapiens” model.
Oldest Dutchman found in road excavations
Friday 24 September 2010
quote:Archaeologists in Flevoland have uncovered what they believe may be the oldest human remains ever found in the Netherlands, news agency ANP reports.
Bones from possibly more than one person have been found in a grave, which may date back to between 5,000 and 7,000 BC, the agency said. Other finds in the Swifterbant area are that age, ANP said.
The oldest human remains found in the Netherlands so far is the skeleton of ‘Trijntje’ found in Hardinxveld-Giessendam and dating to 5,500 BC.
The Swifterbant excavations have uncovered a mid-Stone Age camp, with thousands of flints, arrow-heads and other remains. They are being carried out in the route of a new road between Alkmaar and Zwolle.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Doxie dear, and lioness, so now you think White people evolved in Scandinavia?
I'm not addressing that right now. I'm addessing the fact that according to your own post that the Germans (and according to Tacitus 1st century remarks, who had blue eyes and red hair) were in the Scandinavia and or Germany region about 1,900 years before the Holy Roman empire that you said was Black on your website.
Scandinavia is Northern Europe, the first spot where modern Europeans entered Europe. Germans barely had culture expression for a long time. Scandinavians were huntergathers for a long time, until recent times.
quote: Migration Age
The Migration Period, also called the Barbarian Invasions or German: Völkerwanderung (wandering of the peoples), was a period of human migration that occurred roughly between AD 300 to 700 in Europe, marking the transition from Late Antiquity to the Early Middle Ages. These movements were catalyzed by profound changes within both the Roman Empire and the so-called 'barbarian frontier'. Migrating peoples during this period included the Huns, Goths, Vandals, Bulgars, Alans, Suebi, Frisians, and Franks, among other Germanic and Slavic tribes.
The migration movement may be divided into two phases: The first phase, between AD 300 and 500, put Germanic peoples in control of most areas of the former Western Roman Empire. The first to formally enter Roman territory — as refugees from the Huns — were the Visigoths in 376. Tolerated by the Romans on condition that they defend the Danube frontier, they rebelled, eventually invading Italy and sacking Rome itself in 410, before settling in Iberia and founding a kingdom there that endured 300 years. They were followed into Roman territory by the Ostrogoths led by Theodoric the Great, who settled in Italy itself.
In Gaul, the Franks, a fusion of western Germanic tribes whose leaders had been strongly aligned with Rome, entered Roman lands more gradually and peacefully during the 5th century, and were generally accepted as rulers by the Roman-Gaulish population. Fending off challenges from the Allemanni, Burgundians and Visigoths, the Frankish kingdom became the nucleus of the future states of France and Germany. Meanwhile, Roman Britain was more slowly invaded and settled by Angles and Saxons.
The second phase, between AD 500 and 700, saw Slavic tribes settling in Central and Eastern Europe, particularly in eastern Magna Germania, and gradually making it predominantly Slavic. The Bulgars, a now-Slavicized people possibly of Turkic origin who had been present in far Eastern Europe since the 2nd century, conquered the eastern Balkan territory of the Byzantine Empire in the 7th century. The Lombards, a Germanic people, settled northern Italy in the region now known as Lombardy.
Migrations of peoples, although not strictly part of the 'Migration Age', continued beyond AD 1000, marked by Viking, Magyar, Moorish, Turkic and Mongol invasions, and these also had significant effects, especially in Central and Eastern Europe.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
Scandinavia is Northern Europe, the first spot where modern Europeans entered Europe.
Thousands of years later when the Ice Age came and it got too cold to live in Northern and Central Europe where did they go ?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
Scandinavia is Northern Europe, the first spot where modern Europeans entered Europe.
Thousands of years later when the Ice Age came and it got too cold to live in Northern and Central Europe where did they go ?
They entered Europe at the ending of the ice age. Holocene time frame. It was still very cold thou. But the weather fluctuated. I think this caused mutations becoming fixed alleles appear as depigmentation.
I have put up sources where this was mentioned. For example Dr. Spencer Wells and Trenton W. Holliday.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
Scandinavia is Northern Europe, the first spot where modern Europeans entered Europe.
Thousands of years later when the Ice Age came and it got too cold to live in Northern and Central Europe where did they go ?
They entered Europe at the ending of the ice age. It was still very cold thou.
I have put up sources where this was mentioned. For example Dr. Spencer Wells and Trenton W. Holliday.
They entered Europe paround 35kya, made love to some Neanaderthals. The Nenaderthals died off around 30kya
and then the Last Ice Age came the LGM later between 26,500 and 19,000–20,000 years ago,
There were other ice ages earlier also but I'm talking about the LGM came, when it got too cold to live in Northern and Central Europe then where did they go?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
Scandinavia is Northern Europe, the first spot where modern Europeans entered Europe.
Thousands of years later when the Ice Age came and it got too cold to live in Northern and Central Europe where did they go ?
They entered Europe at the ending of the ice age. It was still very cold thou.
I have put up sources where this was mentioned. For example Dr. Spencer Wells and Trenton W. Holliday.
They entered Europe paround 35kya, made love to some Neanaderthals. The Nenaderthals died off around 30kya
and then the Last Ice Age came the LGM later between 26,500 and 19,000–20,000 years ago,
There were other ice ages earlier also but I'm talking about the LGM came, when it got too cold to live in Northern and Central Europe then where did they go?
I am starting to wonder if you actually posts?
I have put up sources stating that we deal with two different groups of immigrants. The older group entering was an African affiliate group. The latter was from Central Asia. The mixing with the Neanderthals happened somewhere in Central Asia.
quote:Nonetheless, the scenario they consider the more probable is the one in which Neanderthals were scattered through a large geographical area including Middle East, Europe and Central Asia. In particular, in the more probable scenario, their model forecasts interbreeding hotspots also in Europe and Central Asia, very far from the Middle East.
[...]
The second difference is that our model is simpler in that it does not take into account the spatial distribution of the subpopulations. Along with [8] we suggest that interbreeding occurred only in the Middle East. On the other hand, Currat and Excoffier find it more probable that interbreeding occurred in a large region including Europe and Central Asia.
[...]
On the other hand, Currat and Excoffier find it more probable that interbreeding occurred in a large region including Europe and Central Asia.
--Armando G. M. Neves mail,
Extremely Rare Interbreeding Events Can Explain Neanderthal DNA in Living Humans
Published: Oct 24, 2012DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0047076
quote: Cro-Mag·non (kr-mgnn, -mnyn) n. An early form of modern human (Homo sapiens) inhabiting Europe in the late Paleolithic Period and characterized by a broad face and tall stature. It is known from skeletal remains first found in the Cro-Magnon cave in southern France.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
I have put up sources stating that we deal with two different groups of immigrants. The older group entering was an African affiliate group. The latter was from Central Asia. The mixing with the Neanderthals happened somewhere in Central Asia. [/QB]
Below are the Neadnerthal sites
Humans entered Europe around the same time Neanderthals were there. Then the Neanderthals who had been ther for thousnads of years died out around 30 kya. So any later waves of migrants to Europe would not have encountered the Neanderthals. Think carefully about this
But my main question to you is not about Neanderthals.
It's about the first wave of Humans into Europe they came from across Russia into Northern Europe as you said. before being in Russia they had been in Central Asia Here's another Spencer Wells map, pay attention to the time periods of the migration paths
The first waves of humans who went into Europe. In the above map it's indicated by M173 the time period 30kya, other sources might say 35kya. As you can see the migration path into Europe goes back to Central Asia, before that the Mid East, before that Africa. As we can see regardless of exactly where the mixing with Neanderthals occured it occured in the time period when Neanderthals existed and they were not around in any later waves of human migration into Eurasia. As you can see M172 going into South Eastern Europe, the farmers is one of the later waves, here listed 10kya (some say 7000 kya)
I'm asking you about the first wave of Humans 30-35kya. Te ones you said went into Northern Europe After they had been there for a while then the LGM came between 26,500 and 19,000 years ago. When it became to cold to live in Northern and Central Europe where did the people who had originally come in the first wave go?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
I have put up sources stating that we deal with two different groups of immigrants. The older group entering was an African affiliate group. The latter was from Central Asia. The mixing with the Neanderthals happened somewhere in Central Asia.
Below are the Neadnerthal sites
Humans entered Europe around the same time Neanderthals were there. Then the Neanderthals who had been ther for thousnads of years died out around 30 kya. So any later waves of migrants to Europe would not have encountered the Neanderthals. Think carefully about this
But my main question to you is not about Neanderthals.
It's about the first wave of Humans into Europe they came from across Russia into Northern Europe as you said. before being in Russia they had been in Central Asia Here's another Spencer Wells map, pay attention to the time periods of the migration paths
The first waves of humans who went into Europe. In the above map it's indicated by M173 the time period 30kya, other sources might say 35kya. As you can see the migration path into Europe goes back to Central Asia, before that the Mid East, before that Africa. As you can see M172 going into South Eastern Europe, the farmers is one of the later waves, here listed 10kya (some say 7000 kya)
I'm asking you about the first wave of Humans 30-35kya. Te ones you said went into Northern Europe After they had been there for a while then the LGM came between 26,500 and 19,000 years ago. When it became to cold to live in Northern and Central Europe where did the people who had originally come in the first wave go? [/QB]
(I took off that large map, because it takes up space).
The interbreeding between modern humans, Homo Sapiens Sapiens took place in Central Asia, thus giving some Asian populations a higher frequency of Neanderthal gene. It was you who brought up the Neanderthals. SMH!
And here is what it actually says, again!
quote:
"If Africa was the cradle of mankind, then Central Asia was its nursery," said Wells.
Around 35,000 years ago, small groups left Central Asia for Europe. Cold temperatures kept them there.
Cut off from other groups, these migrants became paler and shorter than their African ancestors.
From there, around 20,000 years ago, another small group of Central Asians moved farther north, into Siberia and the Arctic Circle.
I understand, but he is a geneticist. That map is based on genetics. As we no now, some of the Hg are off. But the map does explain the migration route, which is correct. But from a archeological and anthropological standpoint it's not correct.
quote:Cro-Magnon is the informal word once used by scientists to refer to the people who were living alongside Neanderthals at the end of the last ice age (ca. 35,000-10,000 years ago).
Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins*1
Trenton W. Holliday
Department of Anthropology, The College of William and Mary, P.O. Box 8795, Williamsburg, Virginia 23187-8795, U.S.A.
Abstract
quote:Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins*1 Trenton W. Holliday Department of Anthropology, The College of William and Mary, P.O. Box 8795, Williamsburg, Virginia 23187-8795, U.S.A. Abstract Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenetic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow. Following these observations, competing models of modern human origins yield different predictions concerning body proportion shifts in Late Pleistocene Europe. Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess “tropical” body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering. This study tests these predictions via analyses of osteometric data reflective of trunk height and breadth, limb proportions and relative body mass for samples of Early Upper Paleolithic (EUP), Late Upper Paleolithic (LUP) and Mesolithic (MES) humans and 13 recent African and European populations. Results reveal a clear tendency for the EUP sample to cluster with recent Africans, while LUP and MES samples cluster with recent Europeans. These results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions. These data do not, however, preclude the possibility of some (albeit small) contribution of genes from Neandertals to succeeding populations, as is postulated in Bräuer’s “Afro-European Sapiens” model.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
I understand, but he is a geneticist. That map is based on genetics. As we no now, some of the Hg are off. But the map does explain the migration route, which is correct. But from a archeological and anthropological standpoint it's not correct. Disregard the particular Hgs, look at the migration route and the timeline
If the map does explain the migration route, which is correct. Why from a archeological and anthropological standpoint is it not correct? And what would make it correct?
You posted the below map, there's no contradiction in the migration path between the maps
as you can see the earliest humans who entered Europe form the North had come along a path which had Central Asia on it prior to their arrival in Europe
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
I understand, but he is a geneticist. That map is based on genetics. As we no now, some of the Hg are off. But the map does explain the migration route, which is correct. But from a archeological and anthropological standpoint it's not correct. Disregard the particular Hgs, look at the migration route and the timeline
If the map does explain the migration route, which is correct. Why from a archeological and anthropological standpoint is it not correct? And what would make it correct?
You posted the below map, there's no contradiction in the migration path between the maps
as you can see the earliest humans who entered Europe form the North had come along a path which had Central Asia on it prior to their arrival in Europe
I've posted in the post prior to this one, why it's not correct from a archeological and anthropological standpoint, I did post it twice. Let's guess, you did not read it?lol
For the sake of the argument I will narrow it, and break it down for you a bit more.
quote:Results reveal a clear tendency for the EUP sample to cluster with recent Africans, while LUP and MES samples cluster with recent Europeans.
These results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions. These data do not, however, preclude the possibility of some (albeit small) contribution of genes from Neandertals to succeeding populations, as is postulated in Bräuer’s “Afro-European Sapiens” model.
--Trenton W. Holliday Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins*1
Temporal/cultural periods: Early Upper Paleolithic (EUP, 20 –30,000 B.P.), Late Upper Paleolithic (LUP, 10–19,000 B.P.), Mesolithic (MES, 5300-9000 B.P.)
And here is what that map actually says, again!
quote:
"If Africa was the cradle of mankind, then Central Asia was its nursery," said Wells.
Around 35,000 years ago, small groups left Central Asia for Europe. Cold temperatures kept them there.
Cut off from other groups, these migrants became paler and shorter than their African ancestors.
From there, around 20,000 years ago, another small group of Central Asians moved farther north, into Siberia and the Arctic Circle.
Here's another fairly recent map from Nat Geo about the peopling of Eurasia. It has some variations from the other map I posted but the similarity is that as you said the earliest entry of humans into Europe came from the North prior to that they had been in Central Asia and came across Southern Russia
^^this guys ancestor was Central Asian all these maps demonstrate this mankind was in Russia and Central Asia before Europe
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
"If Africa was the cradle of mankind, then Central Asia was its nursery," said Wells.
Around 35,000 years ago, small groups left Central Asia for Europe. Cold temperatures kept them there.
Cut off from other groups, these migrants became paler and shorter than their African ancestors.
From there, around 20,000 years ago, another small group of Central Asians moved farther north, into Siberia and the Arctic Circle.
posted
^Do you actually read what other people post?
And here is the actual article, not some made up version by you.
The first European: Created from fragments of fossil, the face of our forbears 35,000 years ago
quote: His recreation offers a tantalising glimpse into life before the dawn of civilisation. It also shows the close links between the first European settlers and their immediate African ancestors.
quote:"The so-called Old Man [Cro-Magnon 1] became the original model for what was once termed the Cro-Magnon or Upper Paleolithic "race" of Europe.. there's no such valid biological category, and Cro-Magnon 1 is not typical of Upper Paleolithic western Europeans- and not even all that similar to the other two make skulls found at the site. Most of the genetic evidence, as well as the newest fossil evidence from Africa argue against continuous local evolution producing modern groups directly from any Eurasian pre-modern population.. there's no longer much debate that a large genetic contribution from migrating early modern Africans infuenced other groups throughout the Old World.“
--B. Lewis et al. 2008. Understanding Humans: Introduction to Physical
quote: If this analysis shows nothing else, it demonstrates that the oft-repeated European feeling that the Cro-Magnons are “us” (47) is more a product of anthropological folklore than the result of the metric data available from the skeletal remains.
--C. Loring Brace(2006) The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form
quote: It has been proposed that heat adapted, relatively long-legged Homo sapiens from Africa replaced the cold adapted, relatively short-legged Homo neandertalensis of the Levant and Europe
--J Hum Evol 32 (1997a) 423], Bogin B, Rios L. et al.
quote: The subsequent post-28,000-B.P. Gravettian human sample of Europe includes numerous associated skeletons (Table 2) (Zilhão & Trinkaus 2002). Most of these specimens are fully modern in their morphology, and there is a persistence in them of both linear (equatorial) limb proportions and more "African" nasal morphology (Trinkaus 1981, Holliday 1997, Franciscus 2003). However, one Iberian specimen (Lagar Velho 1) exhibits Neandertal limb segment proportions and a series of relatively archaic cranial and postcranial features (Trinkaus & Zilhão 2002). In addition, central incisor shoveling, ubiquitous among the Neandertals, absent in the Qafzeh-Skhul sample, and variably present in the earlier European sample, persists at modest frequencies. And scapular axillary border dorsal sulci, an apparently Neandertal feature also absent in the Qafzeh-Skhul sample, is present
--Trinkaus 2005
quote: "Nor does the picture get any clearer when we move on to the Cro-Magnons, the presumed ancestors of modern Europeans. Some looked more like present-day Australians or Africans, judged by OBJECTIVE anatomical categorizations, as is the case with some early modern skulls from the Upper Cave at Zhoukoudian in China."
-- Am J Phys Anthropol. 1975 May;42(3):351-69,
quote:In modern humans, this elongation is a pattern characteristic of warm-adapted populations, and this physique may be an early Cro-Magnon retention from African ancestors. Similar retentions may be observed in certain indices of facial shape [ ...]
--Encyclopedia of Human Evolution and Prehistory: Second Edition by Eric Delson
quote:"others like Predomost and to a lesser degree Grimaldi and Teviec, are more prognathic like Skhul 5."
--Marta Mirazón Lahr. 2005. The Evolution of Modern Human Diversity:
Ancient DNA Reveals Prehistoric Gene-Flow from Siberia in the Complex Human Population History of North East Europe
quote: Abstract
North East Europe harbors a high diversity of cultures and languages, suggesting a complex genetic history. Archaeological, anthropological, and genetic research has revealed a series of influences from Western and Eastern Eurasia in the past. While genetic data from modern-day populations is commonly used to make inferences about their origins and past migrations, ancient DNA provides a powerful test of such hypotheses by giving a snapshot of the past genetic diversity. In order to better understand the dynamics that have shaped the gene pool of North East Europeans, we generated and analyzed 34 mitochondrial genotypes from the skeletal remains of three archaeological sites in northwest Russia. These sites were dated to the Mesolithic and the Early Metal Age (7,500 and 3,500 uncalibrated years Before Present). We applied a suite of population genetic analyses (principal component analysis, genetic distance mapping, haplotype sharing analyses) and compared past demographic models through coalescent simulations using Bayesian Serial SimCoal and Approximate Bayesian Computation.
[...]
We identified remarkable genetic dissimilarities between prehistoric and modern-day North East Europeans/Saami, which suggests an important role of post-Mesolithic migrations from Western Europe and subsequent population replacement/extinctions.
This work demonstrates how ancient DNA can improve our understanding of human population movements across Eurasia.
It contributes to the description of the spatio-temporal distribution of mitochondrial diversity and will be of significance for future reconstructions of the history of Europeans.
Author Summary
The history of human populations can be retraced by studying the archaeological and anthropological record, but also by examining the current distribution of genetic markers, such as the maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA. Ancient DNA research allows the retrieval of DNA from ancient skeletal remains and contributes to the reconstruction of the human population history through the comparison of ancient and present-day genetic data. Here, we analysed the mitochondrial DNA of prehistoric remains from archaeological sites dated to 7,500 and 3,500 years Before Present. These sites are located in North East Europe, a region that displays a significant cultural and linguistic diversity today but for which no ancient human DNA was available before. We show that prehistoric hunter-gatherers of North East Europe were genetically similar to other European foragers. We also detected a prehistoric genetic input from Siberia, followed by migrations from Western Europe into North East Europe. Our research contributes to the understanding of the origins and past dynamics of human population in Europe.
[...]
Coalescent simulations
In coalescent simulation analyses we considered the ancient populations of aUzPo, aBOO, Central/East/Scandinavian European hunter-gatherers (aHG [12], [14], aPWC [13]), and the modern populations of NEE, CE, and Saami (saa). Population statistics (haplotype diversity and fixation indexes, FST) for the ancient and extant populations were calculated in Arlequin version 3.11 (Table 2, [91]).
posted
we are talking about the first humans in Europe not Siberian input dated to 7,500 and 3,500 years Before Present. It is some admixture nit the main component of Europaans. It is primary to Mongolians
Siberia where the only known Denisova site is, the other Hominin similar to Neanderthal and highest frequencies found far South of there in Papaua
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: we are talking about the first humans in Europe not Siberians,
Siberia where the only known Denisova site is, the other Hominin similar to Neanderthal and highest frequencies found far South of there in Papaua
LOL, this is getting hilarious.
Modern European people moved from Central Asia to Siberia, and from there into (North) Nordic Europe. From there they plead down into Germany etc...
Another group entered Europe during the Mesolithic time via the the Crescent, Middle East. And suggested is that another group entered via Iberia.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: we are talking about the first humans in Europe not Siberians,
Siberia where the only known Denisova site is, the other Hominin similar to Neanderthal and highest frequencies found far South of there in Papaua
LOL, this is getting hilarious.
Modern European people moved from Central Asia to Siberia, and from there into (North) Nordic Europe. From there they plead down into Germany etc...
that is WRONG WRONG WRONG
he is talking about some Siberian input not primary
I have put up the sources not my own opinion. You sicko! The problem you have is, you don't actually read. You just rant! But then gain, what's new?lol
Definition of prehistoric in English
quote: adjective
relating to or denoting the period before written records: prehistoric man
informal very old, primitive, or out of date: my dad’s electric typewriter was a prehistoric machine
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic