posted
"Modern Europe was only formed 5,000 years ago when mass migration from southern Russia and Georgia brought new languages, technology and dairy farming to the continent, according to a new study.Researchers in one of the largest studies of the DNA of Bronze Age skeletons, found that a huge shift of people from the Caucasus region in third millennium BC, brought migrants to northern Europe. And they carried a genetic mutation that allowed adults to tolerate drinking cow’s milk."
For a group who just arrived on the scene a mere 5,000 years ago, they sure act like they can teach others their history when they themselves don't even know theirs.
Who would have thought? The million dollar questions in the 90's used to be, where do black people come from? Why are they so dark? Now its where do white people come from? How recent are their mutation?
They just came into Europe out of nowhere very recently, but certainly act like they belong everywhere. I don't know about anyone else, but I am becoming more alarm, and wondering what in the world are the scientists hiding? It seems that every year the age of the "white" race or white Europeans get smaller. Next thing you know we'll find out they could have been younger. I'm beginning to question if we can trust any of their timelines when it comes to "European history."
posted
Sage! Can you do your job? Take care of the spamming by Afroholic
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
This has been discussed before. Threads were shut down/locked because of me on other forums. I cannot add further to discuss the idiocy of the hypothesis. This says it all.
== Quote: as the Late Neolithic Corded Ware people from Germany traced 75% of their ancestry to the Yamnaya, documenting a massive migration into the heartland of Europe from its eastern periphery. This steppe ancestry persisted in all sampled central Europeans until at least 3,000 years ago, and is ubiquitous inpresent-dayEuropeans. These results provide support for a steppe origin OF AT LEAST SOME of the Indo-European languages of Europe.
=====
After reading an opening like that, why read any further? “SOME Indo-European languages came from the South an some came from the Steppes”. Really? That is the best they could come up with? I wonder who is paying their salaries. That is the problem with some genecist and racialism, their paper is mostly politically motivated. They get the facts and make up a BS story to fit the facts no matter how incredulous it may sound. Create a story to fit and massage the ego of the the mdoern European male. But they forgot that the females were Europe as Neolithics long long before the male.
But….I missed this the first time around.- Looking at fig 3, fig2, and fig 1(right) a pattern emerge. Anyone wants to discuss why R1b1a2xxx seems out of place for the Yamannaya? Besides all the early Neolithic and Paleolithic people NOT carrying the ancestral lineage. I am talking AIM/SNP now.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Seems the Black racist, Whitey hater Ebony needs to take a course on reading comprehension LOL. That article is not saying the White race is only 5000 yrs old its saying we have only been in Europe for 5000 yrs (bullcrap Anti-White tripe).
Kdolo & XyYThater for once something we agree on, this Caveman character has got to go LOL.
XyYThater, yeah that coming from a White people hating Black racist, Black supremacist who claims White people are inferior, diseased, with no history, no heritage, no identity,with no place on earth we belong. So are you saying that White females entered Europe before White males did LOL??? BTW, the Germanic people (who were always described as White were originally Hap. I not Hap. R.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
First off, I am not saying Caveman has to go. His posting is outdated but his spamming is irritating . He has a right to his oppinion and post about it but he should stay on point and post relevant stuff to the topic.
And to your other question - your are not keeping up. Yes , the modern female line entered Europe about 5000ya BEFORE the male lineage.
Oh! I don't use history books as my main source of information so saying, "you READ", the Germanic people were white is irrelevant. Do you know why.? 3000ya there were no books in Europe. Lol! really! No one could have "documented" what a German looked like. All we have to reliably go by is the real life testing of Europeans who ACTUALLY lived 5000ya.
And you do know how that story is unfolding. Sorry there were no white "Germans" 5000ya. Only in you wet dreams.
See I gave you more attention than a high schooler.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Man!. ., I miss Mike . Mike had a flair for dealing wit idiotic comments. And was entertaining and witty at the same time.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Man!. ., I miss Mike . Mike had a flair for dealing wit idiotic comments. And was entertaining and witty at the same time.
Which is the reason for his being banned. Caveman is the new boss here.
Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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posted
This articles has been revised and was put out again today, this is why I posted it here. Secondly, this is only confirming the fact that whites were not the native Europeans. You were not from the area, but came from the region of Asia. This would confirm the albino theory or to be put it more mildly, the mutation theory (white skin being only 10,000 years old theory). In essence you are not native to Europe, Africa, Americas, Australia, and certainly not places like China, Korea, Japan, etc. Wherever you originated from, you were some sort of small Albino group that left the Asia region into Europe. This is why your white researches admit that Stonehenge was already in existence before the barbaric (according to the Romans) Germanic Tribe migrated into Europe. My question is what happened to the original native Europeans? How do we know you guys did not kill them through genocide or ate them (cannibalism) like Neanderthals are known for?
Posts: 15 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2014
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Ebony! Ebony! Please. Let us not go down to that level. When you make accusations like that you provide proof.
Plus reading the article helps. See my bolded section from the abstract.
"SOME" was used intentionally by the author. Why? Because he, Haak and Lazaridis knows better. Do You want to know why?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Ebony! Ebony! Please. Let us not go down to that level. When you make accusations like that you provide proof.
Plus reading the article helps. See my bolded section from the abstract.
"SOME" was used intentionally by the author. Why? Because he, Haak and Lazaridis knows better. Do You want to know why?
Most recent scientific articles that have written on the history of the European admit that the whites were not native to Europe, and that they were recent migration. According to another article that this site is very well knowledgeable on, the pale skin mutation is as young as 10,000 years old.
Forget whether you agree with the scientist or not. We know Stonehenge existed before white Europeans migrated into that area. We know that whites did not built Stonehenge because you cannot find information on it through your so called "written history." Tell me then, what did your white ancestors do to the original or native Europeans that used to live in that land?
We know what they did to the Americas, Australia, Africa, etc. We know what whites did to the Aboriginals of certain nations and how they committed great atrocities towards groups like the Native Americans (practically wiping them out), Africans of West Africa (killing millions), your kind even tried to wipe out the "Ashkenazi Jews", etc. We know you have a history of destroying groups of people by any means possible. We know you have Neanderthal genes in you who had a history of eating their dead. We have historical evidence for this, and I do not need to bring sources to do with common knowledge. What do you suppose your people (whites) did to the original Europeans who built Stonehenge? This is the million dollar question.
Posts: 15 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:Originally posted by kdolo: According to Mike,
Aboriginal Blacks where in Europe and high status well into the Middle Ages until the Whites take over after the many "wars".
You agree ?
Obviously, we only need to look at the Negritos found in Korea, Japan, China, Australia, etc, to know that black people have existed all over the world since ancient time. These Asian and Australian aboriginals were much further away from Africa than Europe. This will obviously mean that if there were Negritos in these far away places, that Europe which is much closer to Africa would have had black people living there in Ancient time also since there were blacks everywhere else.
I am only asking these Eurocentric this question because it is a question they themselves would want to avoid at all cost. I reckon that these white racist are beginning to realized they have been lied to. Their history is full of holes and deception. One can only imagine the lies they had to make up to make it seem like they had a long history of existence or that they were part of every great civilizations that ever existed.
I reckon not only did they needed to whitewash history, but they also had to fill in some blanks or missing pieces of their history, because they needed a way to make themselves look better than they really are. They needed to have an explanation to why they were missing at certain points in history because they certainly are not (which is proven countless of times) an ancient people. This will explain why even the Elamites from the Louvre Museum of Paris were a dark skin people and not the pale skin Arab we see today living in the Middle East.
quote:Originally posted by Ebony: "Modern Europe was only formed 5,000 years ago when mass migration from southern Russia and Georgia brought new languages, technology and dairy farming to the continent, according to a new study.Researchers in one of the largest studies of the DNA of Bronze Age skeletons, found that a huge shift of people from the Caucasus region in third millennium BC, brought migrants to northern Europe. And they carried a genetic mutation that allowed adults to tolerate drinking cow’s milk."
For a group who just arrived on the scene a mere 5,000 years ago, they sure act like they can teach others their history when they themselves don't even know theirs.
Who would have thought? The million dollar questions in the 90's used to be, where do black people come from? Why are they so dark? Now its where do white people come from? How recent are their mutation?
They just came into Europe out of nowhere very recently
The article does not say they came out of nowhere
from the article>
quote:
a recent study by Harvard Medical School suggests that Europe was first reshaped at this time in what archaeologists call the Neolithic Revolution. Farmers from Anatolia travelled north, bringing new technology and language into Europe. This was followed by a second wave of people - the Yamnaya - several thousand years later, from what is today Ukraine and Russia.
Nature 522, 167–172 (11 June 2015) doi:10.1038/nature14507 Received 14 February 2015 Accepted 01 May 2015 Published online 10 June 2015
Population genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia
Morten E. Allentoft, Martin Sikora,
Abstract
The Bronze Age of Eurasia (around 3000–1000 BC) was a period of major cultural changes. However, there is debate about whether these changes resulted from the circulation of ideas or from human migrations, potentially also facilitating the spread of languages and certain phenotypic traits. We investigated this by using new, improved methods to sequence low-coverage genomes from 101 ancient humans from across Eurasia. We show that the Bronze Age was a highly dynamic period involving large-scale population migrations and replacements, responsible for shaping major parts of present-day demographic structure in both Europe and Asia. Our findings are consistent with the hypothesized spread of Indo-European languages during the Early Bronze Age. We also demonstrate that light skin pigmentation in Europeans was already present at high frequency in the Bronze Age, but not lactose tolerance, indicating a more recent onset of positive selection on lactose tolerance than previously thought.
___________________________________________
They are talking about the Yamnaya culture in European Russia in dark red below. They were supposedly light skinned. Their ancestors, like all humans, are believed to be Africans. They were preceeded by Anatolian framers from the Turkish region who brought agriculture to Europe Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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So far, the history of Europeans has been analyzed with the help of ancient settlements and tools that ancient inhabitants left behind. Now two new studies shed light on the history of Europe using DNA samples of 170 skeletons unearthed from various parts of Europe. One study was conducted by researchers at the Harvard University while another was by archaeologists at the University of Copenhagen. Both studies were published in the journal Nature.
Europeans
The first group of migrants came to Europe 45,000 years ago
Both studies suggest that three groups of humans came to Europe at different points in history. The first group was of hunter-gatherers, who came about 45,000 years ago. The second group came about 8,000 years ago. It consisted of farmers from the Near East. Finally, a group of nomads from western Russia, called Yamanya, came to Europe about 4,500 years ago.
Researchers from either team agreed that the Yamanya language gave rise to many of the modern European languages. When the farmers from Turkey arrived about 8,000 years ago, the hunter-gatherer group did not disappear. They managed to survive in various parts of Europe. About 5,000 years ago, the DNA of hunter-gatherers started appearing in the genes of farmers, which suggests inter-breeding.
Yamanya gave Europeans their brown eyes, pale skin
A new kind of DNA arrived about 4,500 years ago, and this DNA is very common in most of the modern Europeans. Both groups of archaeologists found that the new DNA matched skeletons in the Yamanya graves in Russia and Ukraine. Yamanyas brought metal skills and a genetic mutations that allowed Europeans to tolerate drinking cow's milk.
Eske Willerslev of the Copenhagen team said, "The genetic composition and distribution of peoples in Europe and Asia today is a surprisingly late phenomenon." It is only a few thousand years old. Europeans also got their pale skin and brown eyes from the Yamanya.
The Yamanya people used horses to manage their herds of sheep, and followed their livestock with wagons full of water and food. David W. Anthony, the co-author of the Harvard study, said that the expansion of Yamanya people in Europe was peacefu
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Ebony: "Modern Europe was only formed 5,000 years ago when mass migration from southern Russia and Georgia brought new languages, technology and dairy farming to the continent, according to a new study.Researchers in one of the largest studies of the DNA of Bronze Age skeletons, found that a huge shift of people from the Caucasus region in third millennium BC, brought migrants to northern Europe. And they carried a genetic mutation that allowed adults to tolerate drinking cow’s milk."
For a group who just arrived on the scene a mere 5,000 years ago, they sure act like they can teach others their history when they themselves don't even know theirs.
Who would have thought? The million dollar questions in the 90's used to be, where do black people come from? Why are they so dark? Now its where do white people come from? How recent are their mutation?
They just came into Europe out of nowhere very recently
The article does not say they came out of nowhere
from the article>
quote:
a recent study by Harvard Medical School suggests that Europe was first reshaped at this time in what archaeologists call the Neolithic Revolution. Farmers from Anatolia travelled north, bringing new technology and language into Europe. This was followed by a second wave of people - the Yamnaya - several thousand years later, from what is today Ukraine and Russia.
Nature 522, 167–172 (11 June 2015) doi:10.1038/nature14507 Received 14 February 2015 Accepted 01 May 2015 Published online 10 June 2015
Population genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia
Morten E. Allentoft, Martin Sikora,
Abstract
The Bronze Age of Eurasia (around 3000–1000 BC) was a period of major cultural changes. However, there is debate about whether these changes resulted from the circulation of ideas or from human migrations, potentially also facilitating the spread of languages and certain phenotypic traits. We investigated this by using new, improved methods to sequence low-coverage genomes from 101 ancient humans from across Eurasia. We show that the Bronze Age was a highly dynamic period involving large-scale population migrations and replacements, responsible for shaping major parts of present-day demographic structure in both Europe and Asia. Our findings are consistent with the hypothesized spread of Indo-European languages during the Early Bronze Age. We also demonstrate that light skin pigmentation in Europeans was already present at high frequency in the Bronze Age, but not lactose tolerance, indicating a more recent onset of positive selection on lactose tolerance than previously thought.
___________________________________________
They are talking about the Yamnaya culture in European Russia in dark red below. They were supposedly light skinned. Their ancestors, like all humans, are believed to be Africans. They were preceeded by Anatolian framers from the Turkish region who brought agriculture to Europe
All this map is showing is that at least from 5,000 years ago the white race has just barely entered Europe, and that Western Europe had no whites Europeans living there. I see arrows coming from Southern Russia and Turkey, but no point of origin. We know that the pale skin is only 10,000 years old supposedly, but after this time frame your history is blank. Where was the white man living before he entered Russia and Turkey? These arrows seem to be coming from the area of Asia and Asia minor. If I were to just eye scan the image, my conclusion is that the white race was a mixture of Asian and minor Asian people. But we also know that for at least greater Asia the Negrito or Austronesian were the natives there. So between coming out of Africa and 10,000 years ago, there is a big fat question mark to the white man's history.
Posts: 15 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2014
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Light skin in Europeans stems from ONE 10,000-year-old ancestor who lived between India and the Middle East, claims study Study focused on DNA differences across globe with the A111T mutation Those who had mutation also shared traces of an ancestral genetic code This indicates that all instances of mutation originate from same person The mutated segment of DNA was itself created from a combination of two other mutations commonly found in East Asians By ELLIE ZOLFAGHARIFARD
PUBLISHED: 12:36 EST, 7 January 2014
Light skin in Europeans stems from a gene mutation from a single person who lived 10,000 years ago. This is according to a new U.S. study that claims the colour is due to an ancient ancestor who lived somewhere between the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent. Scientists made the discovery after identifying a key gene that contributes to lighter skin colour in Europeans
In earlier research, Keith Cheng from Penn State College of Medicine reported that one amino acid difference in the gene SLC24A5 is a key contributor to the skin colour difference between Europeans and West Africans. ‘The mutation in SLC24A5 changes just one building block in the protein, and contributes about a third of the visually striking differences in skin tone between peoples of African and European ancestry,’ he said.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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[/qb]All this map is showing is that at least from 5,000 years ago the white race has just barely entered Europe, and that Western Europe had no whites Europeans living there. I see arrows coming from Southern Russia and Turkey, but no point of origin.
If you see arrows coming FROM Southern Russia and Turkey, then that IS the origin And it is also shown by color The point of origin is the main mass of the dark red color
and the origin of this culture, recent research says entered into Western Europe
The origin of light skin is a separate issue and is mainly a long gradual process occurring over thousands of years going back before Yamna -but it could be an earlier people from the same region or as other research suggests somewhere between the Middle East and India
You seem to not believe in evolution, that animals don't change in type according to the environment they live in.
You seem to believe that different so called races came about separately and that the rest of what we see is all due to mixing
^^^^ there are millions of "white" skinned East Asians. It's not due to "mixing with the white man"
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Ebony, Xy-YT-Hater (Xyyman) is Black & a White people hating Black racist,Black supremacist pos just like you are. Lioness is also Black (well Mulatto), as far as I know. I'm the only White person on this forum. Anyhow this Yamnaya bull crap is just another bit of Anti-White propaganda started by an East Indian Whitey hating hag named Gimbutass (yes I purposely put the extra s in her name). I believe none of it. You accuse Whites of doing exactly what you & your White people hating, kill Whitey, Black racist, Black supremacist crew are doing. You are stealing other people's histories just to make your own selves feel better about yourselves & to try to make yourselves look better than what you really are. You & your ilk (Xy-YT-Hater, Kdolo, KING, Mike, Clyde,Zarahan,Troll Patrol, Kikuyu,Narmer,Habsburg) just want Whites to think that we are inferior dieseased non-humans, with no history, no heritage, no identity, no place on earth we belong, have nothing to be proud of as White people, have accomplished/built nothing, have no right to self determination, no right to exist & should all just die & become extinct already. This is due to all your hatred towards us.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Sometimes I feel I am the cheese, you know…”a man amongst boys”. Siiighhhh!!. The geographic pattern does NOT fit what the Title of the paper states and the authors know it. The title is all about sensationalism, is all about making head lines and satisfying deflated egos. Here buried within the supplementals is what the title did NOT make clear. Supplementals. Pg 47.
===== I0444 (Yamnaya) The individual could be assigned to haplogroup R1b1a2a2 (CTS1078/Z2103:7186135G→C) and also to the upstream haplogroups R1b1a2 (L150.1:10008791C→T) and R1b1 (M415:9170545C→A).
Summarizing the results from the Yamnaya males, ALL seven belonged to haplogroup R1b1a. Six of these could be further assigned to haplogroup R1b1a2a, and five of these to haplogroup R1b1a2a2. The uniformity of R1b Y-chromosomes in this sample suggests a patrilineal organization of the Yamnaya, or at least of the people who were given expensive Kurgan burials. We cannot exclude the presence of other haplogroups in the general population, or in other individuals located elsewhere in the expansive Yamnaya horizon23. We also emphasize the ABSENCE of M412 (the dominant lineage WITHIN HAPLOGROUP R-M269 in Europe) in this sample, as well as the ABSENCE of the R1a haplogroup which was detected in the Corded Ware and Late Bronze Age Halberstadt individual from central Europe. A survey of other European steppe groups MAY REVEAL the more immediate patrilineal kin of the major founding lineages of MODERN EUROPEAN R1a and R1b chromosomes. ====== In short these are NOT Western Europeans. Neither were the female haplogroups. In other words they probably share the same parental population to Western European males but they are NOT the ancestors of the Western European male.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
In other words Yamanya carry R1b but NOT of the Western Europeans type. They are related but NOT ancestral to modern Europeans. Sad to say but Modern Europeans(Males) did not come from the Yamanya Steppes. That is where I differ with Mike.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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To those who can follow what the author is doing, he is basing their “hypothesis/assumption’ on the FREQUENCY of R1b in ancient Russians and NOT on the haplotye relatedness between this Steppe Population and Western Europeans. They are essential assuming since there is a high frequency of R1b in the Yamanaya then Western Europeans MUST have also come from the same region irregardless that the R1b is of a different type in Western Europe.
Here is how they “spin” it….tsk! tsk! ===== Quote: Discussion In Table S4.3 we summarize results from previouslys of 61 ancient European and 25 ancient Siberian/Central Asian Y-chromosomes >1,000BCE. In combination with our own results (Table S4.2), this summary MAKES IT CLEAR that only a ***SINGLE*** R1b Y-chromosome has been found in 70 ancient Europeans outside Russia (1.4%) before the Late Neolithic period. In contrast, all 9 ancient individuals (100%) from Russia belonged to haplogroups R1a and R1b, and 18/23 (78%) Bronze Age individuals from Central Asia/Siberia belonged to haplogroup R1a. In Europe except Russia, both R1a and R1b have been found in the Late Neolithic and Bronze Age periods for a combined frequency of 6/10 (60%). Present-day Europeans have high frequencies4,17 of haplogroups R1a and R1b. Thus, it appears that before ~4,500 years ago, the frequency of R1a and R1b in Europe outside Russia was very low, and it rose in the Late Neolithic/Bronze Age period. The young, star-like phylogenies of these two haplogroups24 also suggest relatively recent expansions. The ubiquity of these haplogroups in Russia, Siberia, and Central Asia suggest that their rise in Europe was LIKELY to have been due to a migration from the east, although more work is needed to trace these migrations and also to correlate them with regions of the world that have not yet been studied with ancient DNA (such as southern Europe, the Caucasus, the Near East, Iran, and Central and South Asia). Nonetheless, the Y-chromosome results suggest the same east-to-west migration as our analysis of autosomal DNA(BASED UPON FREQUENCY)
====
So…They again acknowledge “no” modern male European line in the Neolithic Europeans, then conclude because of the high frequency in Russian Yamnya plus it is similar(albeir not the same) then European males came from the Steppes. This is really irresponsibleof Haak and Lazaridis( since they agreed the Yamanya Haplotype and Modern Europeans are different). May be someone twisted their arms. In addition the men traveled without their women?(sic)
So back to my previous statement…What stands out about their SNP analyisis? Besides their typical flawed sampling strategy, again being politically motivated. Anyone notice the Yamanya genetic material appeared FIRST in southern Europe? Significance?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Xy-YT-hater, this coming from someone who claims Whites are useless, talentless,good for nothing,stupid,ugly, inferior non-humans, with no history, no heritage,no identity, no ancestors, with no redeeming qualities, nothing to be proud of as White people, have built/accomplished nothing, have no culture, have no right to exist, no right to self determination,with no place on earth we belong & we should all just die out already.
No Kdolo I am NOT Central Asian & neither are my people.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: In other words Yamanya carry R1b but NOT of the Western Europeans type. They are related but NOT ancestral to modern Europeans. Sad to say but Modern Europeans(Males) did not come from the Yamanya Steppes. That is where I differ with Mike.
They know this. They publish anything as long as no one pulls the covers off their lies and deceptions.
posted
Clyde,LOL, I say the same for you Mr. Whites are inferior non-humans (Clyde). with no history, no heritage,no identity, no ancestors, with no redeeming qualities, nothing to be proud of as White people, have built/accomplished nothing, have no culture, have no right to exist, no right to self determination,with no place on earth we belong & we should all just die out already. You'll do anything to deny White people of anything that might give us some amount of pride same with Xy-YT-hater, Kdolo,Habsburg, Ebony,Zarahan,Troll Patrol,Mike,Kikuyu,Mena7,DougM,Bonampak. Simply because you hate White people.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Sometimes I feel I am the cheese, you know…”a man amongst boys”. Siiighhhh!!. The geographic pattern does NOT fit what the Title of the paper states and the authors know it. The title is all about sensationalism, is all about making head lines and satisfying deflated egos. Here buried within the supplementals is what the title did NOT make clear. Supplementals. Pg 47.
===== I0444 (Yamnaya) The individual could be assigned to haplogroup R1b1a2a2 (CTS1078/Z2103:7186135G→C) and also to the upstream haplogroups R1b1a2 (L150.1:10008791C→T) and R1b1 (M415:9170545C→A).
Summarizing the results from the Yamnaya males, ALL seven belonged to haplogroup R1b1a. Six of these could be further assigned to haplogroup R1b1a2a, and five of these to haplogroup R1b1a2a2. The uniformity of R1b Y-chromosomes in this sample suggests a patrilineal organization of the Yamnaya, or at least of the people who were given expensive Kurgan burials. We cannot exclude the presence of other haplogroups in the general population, or in other individuals located elsewhere in the expansive Yamnaya horizon23. We also emphasize the ABSENCE of M412 (the dominant lineage WITHIN HAPLOGROUP R-M269 in Europe) in this sample, as well as the ABSENCE of the R1a haplogroup which was detected in the Corded Ware and Late Bronze Age Halberstadt individual from central Europe. A survey of other European steppe groups MAY REVEAL the more immediate patrilineal kin of the major founding lineages of MODERN EUROPEAN R1a and R1b chromosomes. ====== In short these are NOT Western Europeans. Neither were the female haplogroups. In other words they probably share the same parental population to Western European males but they are NOT the ancestors of the Western European male.
Trofimova et al. (2015) found a surprising high frequency of R1b-L23 (Z2105/2103) among the peoples of the Volga-Ural region (Russia) 21 out of 58 (36.2%) of Burzyan Bashkirs, 11 out of 52 (21.2%) of Udmurts, 4 out of 50 (8%) of Komi, 4 out of 59 (6.8%) of Mordvins, 2 out of 53 (3.8%) of Besermyan and 1 out of 43 (2.3%) of Chuvash were R1b-L23 (Z2105/2103),[34] the type of R1b found in the recently analyzed Yamna remains of the Samara Oblast and Orenburg Oblast.[24]
Haak, Wolfgang; Lazaridis, Iosif (February 10, 2015). "Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe".
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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@ Dr Winters. Of course they know this. They know where modern Europeans came from. Here is their “get out of jail free card”. Read on. You know, CYA ..just in case they are caught in their web of lies.
Some of these Euronuts read the head lines and get an organism. A dream come true…They are not 80% African..Really??!. But here is where they start moonwalking…you know. Back-pedaling.
===== Quote: Neolithic and the Late Neolithic were associated with major migrations. While our results do NOT settle the debate about the location of the proto-Indo European HOMELAND, they increase the plausibility of some hypotheses and decrease the plausibility of others as follows
. Prospects for further genetic insight into Indo-European language origins The ultimate question of the Proto-Indo-European homeland is UNRESOLVED by our data. One important future direction for genetic research into Indo-European origins is to obtain ancient DNA data from India, Iran, northwestern China, and intervening regions to test hypotheses about the spread of Indo-European languages to the east. While obtaining such data is likely to be more difficult than European ancient DNA work (because of poorer conditions for preservation), it could provide crucial clues. For example =====
It is time those of you who finished Graduate School start earning you keep. I can’t be the only one carrying the load. Just saying.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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To fan the flames….some of you may want to know that the Yamanya were “blacker” in skin pigmentation than the incoming Neolithics. Not only that, they were LACTOSE INTOLERANT. IIRC. Doesn’t sound to European to me? LOL!. Of course the Euronuts don’t want those features played up. Then it becomes a nightmare and not a dream….wet.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
@ Lioness. I am not sure what you point is? If your point is these modern Russians and North West Asians carry the same haplotype of R1b as the Yamanay…well they should. The Yamanaya is IN Russia and NOT Western Europe. Which is the point I(xyyman), Lazaridis and Haak is making.
===== Trofimova et al. (2015) found a surprising high frequency of R1b-L23 (Z2105/2103) among the peoples of the Volga-Ural region (Russia) 21 out of 58 (36.2%) of Burzyan Bashkirs, 11 out of 52 (21.2%) of Udmurts, 4 out of 50 (8%) of Komi, 4 out of 59 (6.8%) of Mordvins, 2 out of 53 (3.8%) of Besermyan and 1 out of 43 (2.3%) of Chuvash were R1b-L23 (Z2105/2103),[34] the type of R1b found in the recently analyzed Yamna remains of the Samara Oblast and Orenburg Oblast.[24]. ===
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Lioness. I am not sure what you point is? If your point is these modern Russians and North West Asians carry the same haplotype of R1b as the Yamanay…well they should. The Yamanaya is IN Russia and NOT Western Europe. Which is the point I(xyyman), Lazaridis and Haak is making.
===== Trofimova et al. (2015) found a surprising high frequency of R1b-L23 (Z2105/2103) among the peoples of the Volga-Ural region (Russia) 21 out of 58 (36.2%) of Burzyan Bashkirs, 11 out of 52 (21.2%) of Udmurts, 4 out of 50 (8%) of Komi, 4 out of 59 (6.8%) of Mordvins, 2 out of 53 (3.8%) of Besermyan and 1 out of 43 (2.3%) of Chuvash were R1b-L23 (Z2105/2103),[34] the type of R1b found in the recently analyzed Yamna remains of the Samara Oblast and Orenburg Oblast.[24]. ===
They are saying the Yamna of south European Russia migrated into Western Europe
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: some of you may want to know that the Yamanya were “blacker” in skin pigmentation than the incoming Neolithics
Recent research says a population can have a significant change in skin tone in as little as 6000 years
you pretend to have some data that gives precise indication of how dark they were, where is it
you try to destroy theory but have nothing to replace it with
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Xy-YT-Hater (not Xyyman as you are a White people hating, Black racist, Black supremacist). Pray do tell then where do White people come from hmmm?? You said that White people were inferior, diseased, of no use for anything, talentless,stupid, ugly, have no history, no heritage, no identity, no ancestors, have no right to exist, no right to knowledge of self, have never built or accomplished anything, have nothing to be proud of as Whites, have no right to exist, and have no place on earth we belong & should just die off already. Now you want to claim that you know where we come from? Let's hear it this ought to be good.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
No Lioness – they are saying Modern Western Eurpean males MAY possible come from the Asian Steppes like the Yamanya because both Western Europeans males and Yamanya carry R1b but Neolithic do NOT carry R1b. Highest ancient frequency of R1b is found in these ancient Russians. BUT! BUT! The big But! Of course it is NOT conclusive because the R1b is of a different haplo(type) and NOT ancestral to those found in Western European males.
Oh!, the phenotype of the Yamanaya was posted already. I would have to dig it up. Tell your buddy Sammy and Neal to update the search function so I can easily find it.
This is a freebie
@ Warrioress - - Lazaridis and other have already stated who modern Europeans are. They are as much as 80% Neolithics. I know this may be difficult for you to understand but even this paper(Haak) concluded the same thing. Modern Europeans are primarily new to Europe. They are Neolithics. Just in case you missed it, what this paper is dissecting is the “hunter gatherer” genetic portion of the modern Europeans. Essentially the ANE. Please keep up.
@ Others – continuing. Did you notice that KOS-14(Makrani) the Paleolithic also have “yamanya” genetic material? Which came first? The chicken of the egg. Lol. SMH. Don’t they have the cart in front the horse?
That is why the hypothesis is inconclusive. Ha! Ha! Ha! you people.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Tell your buddy Sammy and Neal to update the search function so I can easily find it.
take this
site:http://www.egyptsearch.com
Now add whatever you would like to search say, "Japanese kid"
and put that behind it
Japanese kid site:http://www.egyptsearch.com
^^^ now copy and paste this in your URL field and it is just as good as an internal search
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
So Lioness. Your question has been answered in yet aonther paper on the Yamyana from the Steppes.
Anyone read it? Damn I am good!!! I guess Dienekes did not read it before she posted it on her blog. Ha! Ha! I haven't read thorugh the supplementals but this is only a taste from the main article.
quote:
Quote
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Lioness. I am not sure what you point is? If your point is these modern Russians and North West Asians carry the same haplotype of R1b as the Yamanay…well they should. The Yamanaya is IN Russia and NOT Western Europe. Which is the point I(xyyman), Lazaridis and Haak is making.
===== Trofimova et al. (2015) found a surprising high frequency of R1b-L23 (Z2105/2103) among the peoples of the Volga-Ural region (Russia) 21 out of 58 (36.2%) of Burzyan Bashkirs, 11 out of 52 (21.2%) of Udmurts, 4 out of 50 (8%) of Komi, 4 out of 59 (6.8%) of Mordvins, 2 out of 53 (3.8%) of Besermyan and 1 out of 43 (2.3%) of Chuvash were R1b-L23 (Z2105/2103),[34] the type of R1b found in the recently analyzed Yamna remains of the Samara Oblast and Orenburg Oblast.[24]. ===
They are saying the Yamna of south European Russia migrated into Western Europe
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: some of you may want to know that the Yamanya were “blacker” in skin pigmentation than the incoming Neolithics
Recent research says a population can have a significant change in skin tone in as little as 6000 years
you pretend to have some data that gives precise indication of how dark they were, where is it
you try to destroy theory but have nothing to replace it with
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Xy-YT-Hater, again you didn't answer the question, I've asked it of you many times and once again you skirt around it.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
This is really getting in interesting. It is like a daytime Soap Opera. Did they just slap Haak and Lazaridis in the face???? Lol! As I told the readers in the Forum I was kicked out. Researchers run the risk of being exposed by other researchers. Is this an example?
====== Quote - Earlier studies have shown that southern Europeans received substantial gene flow from Neolithic farmers during the Neolithic9. Despite being slightly later, we find that the Copper Age Remedello culture in Italy does not have the ‘Caucasian’ genetic component and is still clustering genetically with Neolithic farmers (Fig. 2; Extended Data Fig. 1 and Supplementary Fig. 6). Hence this region was either unaffected by the Yamnaya expansion or the Remedello pre-dates such an expansion into southern Europe. The ‘Caucasian’ component is clearly present during Late Bronze Age in Montenegro (Fig. 2b). The close affinity we observe between peoples of Corded Ware and Sintashta cultures (Extended Data Fig. 2a) suggests similar genetic sources of the two, which ***CONTRASTS ***with previous hypotheses placing the origin of Sintastha in Asia or the Middle East28. Although we cannot formally test whether the Sintashta derives directly from an eastward migration of Corded Ware peoples or if they share common ancestry with an earlier steppe population, the presence of European Neolithic farmer ancestry in both the Corded Ware and the Sintashta, combined with the absence of Neolithic farmer ancestry in the earlier Yamnaya, would suggest the former being more probable (Fig. 2b and Extended Data Table 1).
Our genomic evidence for the spread of Yamnaya people from the Pontic-Caspian steppe to both northern Europe and Central Asia during the Early Bronze Age (Fig. 1) corresponds well with the hypothesized expansion of the Indo-European languages. In CONTRAST to recent genetic findings32, however, we only find WEAK EVIDENCE for admixture in Yamnaya, and only when using Bronze Age Armenians and the Upper Palaeolithic Mal’ta as POTENTIAL SOURCE POPULATIONS (Z 5 22.39; Supplementary Table 12). This could be due to the absence of eastern hunter-gatherers as potential source population for admixture in our data set. Modern Europeans show some genetic links to Mal’ta4 that has been suggested to form a third European ancestral component (Ancestral North Eurasians (ANE))10. Rather than a hypothetical ancient northern Eurasian group, our results reveal that ANE ancestry in Europe probably derives from the spread of the Yamnaya culture that distantly shares ancestry with Mal’ta (Figs 2b and 3b and Extended Data Fig. 3). ========
Here they are critiquing the paper by Haak. BTW – we discussed the Bonze Age Armenians/SSA connection lready. “we already do know who they are? “
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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But I have to admit. These people are relentless. Parsing out the 5-10% ANE portion of their ancestry to give it greatness. They just won’t stop. I agree they can wear you down. They are intent so distancing themselves from the 80% Neolithic. If they prefer to claim origin from Central Asian Steppes instead of Neolithic even when some are 80% Neolithic. I say let them.
But some of us are intent ot filter through the “fog or war’ to get at what really happened during pre-historical times. Forget modern day politcal drama.
They are back to pilferring through the <20% HG genetic material and somehow assign to dramatic changes in Europe. They are intent to assigning their “greatness” to the Steppes and not the Neolithics. I guess they have given up on the farmers who they are now “dissing’. The Bronze Age warriors from the Steppes of Asia is the new hot thing.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
To those who don’t or can’t follow. That reference “32” is the new Haak paper in the OP
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
OK let's try this again Xy-YT-Hater where in your opinion do modern Europeans originate from? Where are modern Europeans indigenous to iow? Let's see if you'll actually answer instead of skirting around the question.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
As I said. The Yamanya were dark skinned and had black/brown eyes. The incoming Neolithic brought pale skin to Europe. Apparently light/blue eyes were already in Europe within the “Black” Europeans. (which data show also has an African origin). Interestingly as I said. This Makrani/Onge/Australian/Andaman type (meta)population stretched from Europe to Asia and Australia.
On SLC24A5 ===== Quote: For rs1426654, the frequency of the derived allele increases from very low to fixation within a period of approximately 3,000 years between the Mesolithic and Bronze Age in Europe. For rs12913832, a major determinant of blue versus brown eyes in humans, our results indicate the presence of blue eyes already in Mesolithic hunter-gatherers as previously described33.We find it at intermediate frequency in Bronze Age Europeans, but it is notably absent from the Pontic- Caspian steppe populations, suggesting a HIGH PREVALENCE of brown eyes in these individuals (Fig. 4).
and that East Asians, but not Europeans, received subsequent gene flow from remnants of an earlier migration into Asia of Aboriginal Australian ancestors at some point before 20 kyr BP3. There is evidence that the western Eurasian branch constituted a meta-population STRETCHING FROM Europe to Central Asia2,4 and that it contributed genes to both modern-day western Eurasians4 and early
======
I got this! This is not rocket science.!! Hit me up with any questions…you to warrioress!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Xy_YT-Hater, there you go again skirting around the question. I would like an answer please thanks.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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