^These are French Dutch and Belgian Coats of arms, several hundred years old The moor's head is a common symbol in European heraldry. What appears on Coats of arms are religious and folk symbols, not depictions of family members or founders. Things like mermaids, wild men, giants , "moors", unicorns, lions, and many other icons
The moor's head symbol relates to three different main influences
1) One of the Magi, an African king
The Adoration of the Magi is the name traditionally given to the subject in the Nativity of Jesus in art in which the three Magi, represented as kings, having found Jesus by following a star, lay before him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh, and worship him. In the earliest depictions, the Magi are shown wearing Persian dress of trousers and Phrygian caps. Occasionally from the 12th century, and very often in Northern Europe from the 15th century on, the Magi are also made to represent the three known parts of the world: Balthasar is very commonly cast as a young African or Moor, and old Caspar is given Oriental/Middle Eastern features or, more often, dress. Melchior represents Europe and middle age. There are many variations and sometimes the ethnic representations are attributed to a different Magi name. For instance, the African is sometimes called Kaspar at other times Balthazar. In may paintings we see the allegorical scenes of these Magi and the infant Jesus. The Magi are often carry chalices which hold their gifts. This is the common president in European art to depict an African with a crown. Such figures are in numerous Adoration of the Magi scenes. A European style crown is sometimes depicted. These are are part of allegorical treatments where their dress may at the same time have what is imagined to be African elements. All of these Magi figures vary greatly from one Adoration scene to another and are imagined rather than accurate ethnographic depictions of clothing. Likewise European kings do not wear hoop earrings yet crowned black heads in coats of arms often have hoop earrings. It is reminiscent of Nubians scene in scenes on the walls of ancient Egyptian tombs. Not that that is the specific source but the hoop earring represents a symbol of Africa in this European art. This has lasted up until modern times. The Catholic church has explained that the coat of arms of the pervious last pope, Benedict, including a crowned Moor with earring represent the universality of the church. It's a simple message, that Christianity has reached all the different people of the world as corresponds to the three kings.
2) The Theban Legion Another notable "moor" depicted all over Germany and in other places in Northern Europe is depicted an an armored soldier. This represents another religious symbol St. Maurice. St Maurice, real or mythological was supposed to be leader of the legendary Roman Theban Legion in the 3rd century, a time hundreds of years before Islam was born. His name "Maurice" derives from from Late Latin Mauritius, from Latin Maurus "inhabitant of Mauritania, the ancient berber kingdom which once was located in part of Morocco and then became a client state of Rome. Maurice was an acknowledged Christian at a time when the Church was considered to be a threat to the Roman Empire. The legend is that Holy Roman emperor Maximian ordered the legion to harass some local Christians but they refused. Ordering the unit to be punished, Maximian had every tenth soldier killed, a military punishment known as decimation. More orders followed, the men refused as encouraged by Maurice, and a second decimation was ordered. In response to the Theban Christians' refusal to attack fellow Christians, Maximian ordered all the remaining members of the 6,600 unit to be executed. The place in Switzerland where this occurred, known as Agaunum, is now named Saint Maurice-en-Valais, site of the Abbey of Saint Maurice-en-Valais. Again the message is the universality of the Catholic church, even people from far off places such as African people are willing to give up their lives to protect fellow Christians. It's a powerful image. This is more particular to moors in the heraldry depicted as soldiers with armor or and sword.
3) Islamic Moors The North African based Muslims who conquered Spain in the 8th century. This is seen on some Southern Europeans coats of arms. Often a set of fours moors heads placed on the red cross of St. George. This is seen on the coats of arms of Sardinia and Corsica. The original form is of of four blindfolded heads. This was later transformed much later into bandanas no longer covering the eyes to soften the war victory connotation. These Moor's head here represent trophies of the Crusades but is later toned down and overlaps the positive depictions of moors relating to the Christian tradition, events prior to Islam.
So we see a complex overlapping of European tradition as per these black icons in the art. You have one of the Magi and St. Maurice representing the reach of Christianity to far off places on the one hand and on the other hand some of these same "Moors" would convert to Islam and conquer Christian lands.
The religious symbolism of Moorish kings and soldiers is apparent in hundreds of European paintings and in the coats of arms.
____________
But J.A. Rogers, the author of The Five Negro Presidents and Nature Knows No Colour Line says:
quote: "some Negroes who were not only favorites of royalty but bore the family name of their kingly patrons, became founders of noble families."
^^ I challenge anyone to provide documentation proving this claim. There is writing from the period as well as official familial history. The black "moors' heads in coats of arms are many. Our accesses via the internet is much more easily accessible to a wider variety of sources than in J.A. Rogers times. These moor head coats of arms are not secret. They are all over the internet, in books and in public places, signs and statuary in many places in Europe. J.A. Rogers leaves out the religious symbolism these moors heads represent in the Christian tradition of Europe relating to legendary events of the 1st and 3rd century. A mixed person himself he wants this idea of moors having mixed into the European nobility to be true. That is not to say there is no case of such a thing occurring. Alessandro de' Medici (1511- 1537) called "il Moro", ruler of Florence for several years is believed by some historians to be had been born to a servant of African descent who was working in the Medici household and on the other side Giulio de' Medici ( who himself is questioned as being a true Medici) But this sort of thing if true, it violates royal noble bloodlines and protocol and could only be done by lying and secrecy
and it has absolutely nothing to do with coats of arms.
I challenge anyone to provide documentation proving that a moor was allowed to use the name of their royal employer or master and that entitled them noble status as J.A. Rogers claims. But more importantly provide documentation of a "negro" being described as the founder of a royal family. There are dozens of these Coats of Arms, surely you must be able to find textual evidence if this claim is true. Try looking up any of these names of families above the coats of arms. If you are confident that what Rogers is claiming is true you will do so and attempt to prove his claims. If you cannot provide a single example or more probably not even bothering to investigate these genealogies you are just delivering rhetoric. You don't really believe it
J.A. Rogers :
quote:
To sum up why many families with Negroes in their coats-ofarms, and especially those with names which which are a derivative of Moor, Negro, and Blackamoor are of Negro ancestry: First, they were of they were of that old British stock which opposed invaders, as the Romans Danes and Saxons, and distinguished themselves in so doing; second they were Negroes in Roman armies who later founded families ( Africans and Orientals were encamped in Germany at that time say Hertz); third Christianized Moors.
^ This a logical fallacy.
A)
Assuming that all these groups were Negroes: 1) Celts 2) Africans in the Roman Army 3) Christianized African Muslims
does not prove
B) that any people of these groups can be connected to any of the 14th century and later families with coats of arms with moors on them.
that is the essential problem. in order to prove what J.A. Rogers claims to be true one has to begin with at least one example. > identify a documented black moorish person or black moorish family by name and then show that family having a coat of arms with a moor on it.
There are many of these coats of arms so if what J.A. Rogers is saying is true there has to be documentation of a named black moorish person who is represented by one of these families who has a moor's head coat of arms.
There are many paintings of white nobles some of which even includes their coat of arms which has a moor and other symbols on it on the painting. They have documented their history but while having a moor on their coat of arms make no mention of an actual black moor person being the founder of the family.
I challenge anyone to name a black African, black muslim or any person historically documented as black to be a founder or any kind of member of a noble class European family. Without that there is no proof of what J.A. Rogers claims. Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Africans have been present in Europe from classical times. In the 2nd and 3rd centuries Roman soldiers of African origin served in Britain, and some stayed after their military service ended. According to the historians Fryer, Edwards and Walvin, in the 9th century Viking fleets raided North Africa and Spain, captured Black people, and took them to Britain and Ireland. From the end of the 15th century we begin to see more evidence for the presence of Glossary - opens new windowBlack Moors in the accounts of the reign of King James IV of Scotland, and later in Elizabethan England.
McRitchie, D., Ancient and Modern Britons, Los Angeles, 1884
Buchanan, P. Hill, Margaret Tudor: Queen of Scots, Edinburgh and London, 1985
Dickenson, T. (ed.), Lord High Treasurer's Accounts - Scotland, vols II, III and IV, Scotland, 1503-13
Edwards, P. and Walvin, J., Black Personalities in the Era of the Slave Trade, London and Basingstoke, 1983
Fryer, P., Staying Power: The History of Black People in Britain, London, 1984
The National Archives of Scotland http://www.nas.gov.uk Onyeka, Blackamoores: Africans in Tudor England, their Presence, Status and Origins , 2013, [Onyeka Nubia published under the name Onyeka]
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
^ more spam. There is no connection given of these moors in the court of King James IV to Coats of Arms.
Again this thread is about European Coats of Arms
There are many dozens or more of Coats of Arms with moors' heads or figures on them but J.A. Rogers has failed to provide textual or other evidence that they depict family members from the family of which the Coat of Arms belongs to.
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^ more spam. There is no connection given of these moors in the court of King James IV to Coats of Arms.
Again this thread is about European Coats of Arms
There are many dozens or more of Coats of Arms with moors' heads or figures on them but J.A. Rogers has failed to provide textual or other evidence that they depict family members from the family of which the Coat of Arms belongs to.
LOL your source is from 1952, go figure!
This is the from the nationalarchives. lol
quote: Africans have been present in Europe from classical times. In the 2nd and 3rd centuries Roman soldiers of African origin served in Britain, and some stayed after their military service ended...
You have been crushed a long time ago.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The bog is a person of the crusades in the fought with great bravery - or "took the head "of many enemies.
quote: CROWN
As with all crowns, is the heavenly crown a symbol of victory, sovereignty and empire. It is a visible sign of success, therefore, the term "coronation", and its importance as decoration of the ultimate level of rank and power, wear the crown, makes a great honor.
quote:HELMET
If a helmet is on a sign, it is It represents wisdom and security meant even strength, protection and invulnerability
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I am just gonna use a Wikipedia article posted below the picture to dumb it down for you to your level, my sweet sweet Dunce:
Black Bull!
The Earliest Colemans
St Coleman of Lindisfarne 676 AD
Real life Black Saints!
The Coleman family tree
Coleman is a surname of Irish and English origin. The Irish surname is derived from the Gaelic Ó Colmáin, O' Clumhain, or Mac Colmain.
The English surname is an occupational name denoting a burner of charcoal, or possibly a servant of a person named Cole.[1][2]
Notable people with the surname include:
A. E. "Fred" Coleman, discoverer of gold in Julian, California Alan Coleman (1936–2013), British television writer, director and producer Alan Coleman (cricketer) (born 1983), English cricketer
Asa Coleman, (so-called) African American politician and former slave Ben Coleman, multiple people Bessie Coleman (1892–1926), first (so called) African American to become an aircraft pilot and the first American to hold an international pilot license
Real Black people and their mulatos!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
If you ever doubted that in U.S. the power structure conspires to control what you know and what you see.
The Central Italian Earthquake: Last night on BBC news, I saw an interview with a Black priest, who was the pastor serving one of the churches. He was giving his account of how he survived the quake.
After googling for an hour, there is no sign of that Black priest in American news or Television.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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