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Author Topic: Zimbabwe pres Robert Mugabe was deposed in a bloodless coup by the military
mena7
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Lamin stop kidding yourself. You are acting like a white liberal as if to say that white folks have no role in what goes on in Africa and it is all Africans fault.

I don't deny that Africans have a responsibility to take charge of their own future.

However, like I said, in order to produce that kind of African leadership you need institutions. And those institutions have to have an African first mindset. Those instutions don't exist in Africa and those that do are few and far between. Most Africans who are in leadership roles in Africa are educated or trained in Western Universities or by Western missionaries and funded by Western corporations or interests. All of this represents institutions that are not controlled by Africans and promote a non African agenda in the minds of African leaders.

So in theory what you are saying is nice, but the facts on the ground say otherwise. Mugabe was educated in white schools in Rhodesia and then got honorary degrees from schools in England, if he did not actually attend any there.

You keep trying to pretend that it is just simple and easy for Africans to rise to positions of power in Africa without being affected by foreign influence.

The next president of Zimbabwe is going to have the same non African interests playing a role in their funding and backing as Mugabe and African leaders. That is just a fact. You can sit here an play all these games and deny those facts if you want but I choose not to. Africans are poor and with no money and resources you will go for whoever is feeding you and giving out money and in most cases this means non Africans.

Now if there were Afrian billionaires who were paying off African leaders in corrupt deals that would be one thing, but in most cases it is foreign governments and foreign companies who have to money to bribe African officials.....

So are you saying Mobutu who overthrew Patrice Lumumba wasn't influenced, educated and trained by Non Africans? Seriously?

I don' get it with folks insisting on believing in nonsense when the facts are available online and plain as day.

Everthing in this quote below supports what I am saying. Whatever it is you believe it isn't based on any historical facts.


Mena: Nice post doug I think both you and Lamin are right, African countries are facing internal and external problems. The internal problems are the corruption of African governments and politicians, ethnic and tribal competition and hatred and adherence to foreign religions and superstition in some African religions.

Those internal problems make Africa more vulnerable to external problems like the Imperialism and neocolonialism of European countries. The European never completely left Africa after the end of colonization. The Western Europeans left their secret societies, spy agencies, agents, education system and Western institution behind in Africa to still control Africa from Europe or their African embassy.

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mena

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mena7
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5085613/Mugabe-Catholic-Marxist-brutal-despot.html

The women who helped create a tyrant: How Mugabe's hatred of colonial Britain grew after he fought his first wife's deportation from London... before second wife Grace nurtured his evil political extremes
Zimbabwean dictator met his first wife Sally Hayfron in 1958 when they were teaching at a Ghanaian college
They married in 1960 but early on in relationship Robert Mugabe was sent to prison for 'subversive speech'
She fled to London in the mid 1960s but by the end of the decade her visa application was rejected by the UK
Sally Hefron died of kidney failure in 1992, 12 years after she became the much-loved first lady of Zimbabwe
Robert Mugabe had already started sleeping around before she died and remarried Grace Marufu in 1996
The current first lady facilitated his extreme dictatorship and is hated in Zimbabwe for her lavish lifestyle

Mena: Pictures of Zimbabwe ex president Robert Mugabe

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Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe and his wife Grace attend his birthday celebrations in Masvingo last year.

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Robert Mugabe's hatred of colonial Britain grew after he fought his first wife's deportation from London and his second wife Grace nurtured his dark extremes. The Zimbabwean tyrant met Sally Hayfron (right) in 1958 when they were both teaching at a college in Ghana and two years later they married in Harare

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Zimbabwe Prime Minister Robert Mugabe with his new bride Grace Marufu after thier wedding ceremony at the Kutama catholic mission 80km (42 miles) west of Harare where the Zimbabwean president was educated

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Later in his rule, he used blistering rhetoric to blame his country's downward spiral on Western sanctions, though they were targeted personally at Mugabe and his henchmen rather than at Zimbabwe's economy. Pictured left: Mugabe with his old hero Fidel Castro in 2005. Right: With his old queen, Elizabeth II, in 2008

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Old dictators club: President Mugabe embraces Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi at the inauguration ceremony of South African president Jacob Zuma on May 9, 2009 in Pretoria, South Africa

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Britain's former foreign secretary Peter Carrington knew Mugabe well, having mediated the Lancaster House talks that paved the way for Zimbabwe's independence. He told his biographer that Mugabe 'wasn't human at all,' adding: 'There was a sort of reptilian quality about him.' Pictured: The president with Tony Blair in 1997

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irst heralded as a liberator who rid the former British colony Rhodesia of white minority rule, Mugabe (pictured above with Nelson Mandela) was soon cast in the role of a despot who crushed political dissent and ruined the national economy

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mena

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lamin
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Lies and more lies. The article refused to mention that the source of the conflict in Zimbabwe was the appropriation/stealing of lands and enslaving the people to work on their lands.

Zimbabwe was/is tied to the West's economic system by way of the white World bank and the white IMF plus the multiple white-run credit institutions. They all ganged together to squeeze Zimbabwe into poverty. Mugabe overcame but he was totally unwise to be led by that greedy and ignorant ex-typist.

And the Western media are all non-stop in showing those foolish crowds of mostly very young people singing and dancing as if the VP, interim President would lead them to the Promised Land. If those ignoramuses knew history and the wickedness of the British and the white settlers, they would be more muted in recognizing the unfolding events.

The sanctions are still biting and Gucci Grace has fled. A sad end of an era.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
where did I argue for traditional African religion? Only 1 case deserves some consideration--the Monotheism of Ancient Egypt.

quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
Better to democratise the Heavens with multitudes of gods each with his/her own bailiwick. Makes things much more interesting--as with the Orishas of the Yoruba religion.


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jantavanta
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quote:
Originally posted by mena7:
Mugabe from Prison to Power? Jomo Kenyatta from Prison to Power? Nelson Mandela? Prison to Power does not solve the problem of the miseducation of Africans.

Mugabe may not have had an European wife, but why is he bearing the name Robert?

Check Anta Diop is great to you in the Americas, but only for intellectual excitement. Senegal remains the same. He could not profer any solution to a country dominated by four Muslim(2nd Line White Supremacist) Brotherhoods and ruled by Presidents with European wives. He never gave the Senegalese common man a God in his own image.


In Nigeria we have the Highest Spiritual Centre of the Universe in Ibadan, a Yoruba territory. So we have a Yoruba African Institution, where European names are not used. We have no need for ancient Egyptian references.

It is typical for White People to attach a White spouse to any African or Black Person who is an achiever. Pele of Brazil, Serena Williams, Chieik Anta Diop, etc That is how they maintain their benefits from Black People.

Nice post Jantavanta I agree the White elite are encouraging successful Black people to marry White people or have a White mistress. I think it is a strategy to control and spy on the successful Black person.

Thank you Mena. I just saw the photos of Mugabe's past and present wives. From a comparison, I detect that Grace is an Eurocentric African woman. These eurocentric Black women are the ones encouraging the looting of Africa to be stashed abroad.

In effect, Robert Mugabe's first marriage was to an Afrocentric African Woman. He lost his pan African credentials after getting involved with an Eurocentric African woman or a White woman in Black skin.

That is the danger many Pan African leaders are exposed to: wrong wives.

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Elmaestro
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If the rumors of Emmerson Mnagagawa are true then Doug was all the way right, lol...
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Elmaestro:
If the rumors of Emmerson Mnagagawa are true then Doug was all the way right, lol...

what rumor about Emmerson Mnagagawa?


_________________________________

A longtime ally of Mugabe and a senior member of the ruling ZANU–PF party, Mnangagwa served as First Vice President of Zimbabwe from 2014 until his dismissal in November 2017, shortly before the November coup d'état against Mugabe.

Mnangagwa was a leader during the Rhodesian Bush War. After Zimbabwe was recognized in 1980, Mnangagwa held a series of senior cabinet positions under Mugabe,

Mnangagwa was a leader during the Rhodesian Bush War. After Zimbabwe was recognized in 1980, Mnangagwa held a series of senior cabinet positions under Mugabe, including as minister of state security during the Gukurahundi massacres in which up to 20,000 mainly Ndebele civilians were killed. Mnangagwa blamed the army for the massacres and continued to hold senior cabinet positions, though he is widely believed to be responsible.[6]

After a demotion to Minister of Rural Housing in 2005, Mnangagwa restored his favour with Mugabe by playing a critical role in Mugabe retaining power by brokering a power sharing pact after the disputed general election in 2008. Mnangagwa served as Minister of Defence from 2009 to 2013, when he became Minister of Justice. Mnangagwa was also appointed Vice President in December 2014 and was widely considered to be a leading candidate to be Mugabe's successor.
However, Mnangagwa was opposed by the Generation 40 faction led by President Mugabe's wife, Grace Mugabe.

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Elmaestro
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All that is cool. Mnangagawa seems like my type of guy, but then I hear this...
quote:
"I have been speaking to people at home. They make the point – all these people have blood on their hands. All of them." But, she adds, "Mnangagwa is seen as someone who has good business acumen, who understands the need for foreign investment... and who, recently, has been making surprising noises about things like inviting the white farmers who were forced off their land to return to Zimbabwe and also has said he's willing to work with the opposition,"
-Michelle Faul

OK... I guess for the sake of public relations but "Work with the opposition," how?

...

Zimbabwe’s new president Emmerson Mnangagwa offers money to white farmers

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mnangagwa-offers-money-to-white-farmers-ttgw5vmwq

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the lioness,
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there goes the neighborhood
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lamin
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Those thieving white farmers should be banned from ever returning to Zimbabwe. That's why the white West media have been going non-stop about Mugabe ever since the War veterans forced Mugabe to recognize that the War against the white settlers was about "taking back back the lands the settlers from far-off Britain stole with much violence".

But like most colonized Africans--they tremble when the white man speaks. "We want those lands back" they hear, and they tremble. There's lots of empty lands in Russian Steppes, they should ask Putin to let them in.


The War Veterans will have to spring in to action again if Mnangagwa starts going soft.


In fact, the FLN of Algeria and the ZANU-PF War Veterans are the only groups in Africa to have seized back land stolen by the marauding European colonizers. The French lost Algeria and Britain lost their impertinently-named "Rhodesia". Now they would be wining, dining and bribing Mnangagwa to gift them back the lands the War Veterans fought for.

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lamin
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quote:
Zimbabwe’s new president Emmerson Mnangagwa offers money to white farmers
A generic jackass and cowardly African decked out in an expensive Savile Row suit and tie going soft when the white man barks.

People chatter about "white supremacy" in the U.S., but that's nothing compared to the white supremacy of Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Germany, Italy, etc. in Africa. They stole resources, used forced labor, took slaves, carved out spheres of interest, murdered recalcitrants, named countries, etc. as they wished.

And when they left, they made sure that a set of stupidly brainwashed and Christianized people were left in place to continue the pillage--while they are absent.


Blame the witch, Grace Mugabe, and blame Mugabe for being so stupid to be so intellectually cheap for just an ordinary "pop".

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lamin
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
Better to democratise the Heavens with multitudes of gods each with his/her own bailiwick. Makes things much more interesting--as with the Orishas of the Yoruba religion

.

Maybe you lack subtlety in your thinking. In some African religions there is just one God, others many. The point was about having more gods than just one. A slight sarcastic tongue in cheek there.

Hey, the Ancient Greeks, the Ancient Romans, the Hindus, etc., have many gods in their religions.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
Better to democratise the Heavens with multitudes of gods each with his/her own bailiwick. Makes things much more interesting--as with the Orishas of the Yoruba religion

.

Maybe you lack subtlety in your thinking. In some African religions there is just one God, others many. The point was about having more gods than just one. A slight sarcastic tongue in cheek there.

Hey, the Ancient Greeks, the Ancient Romans, the Hindus, etc., have many gods in their religions.

Sp why are you monotheist ?
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lamin
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What makes you think that way? Egyptian monotheism is more structured and is the basis for the monotheism of Judaism, Christianity and Islam-of which the latter 2 have millions and millions of Africans/blacks totally ensnared.

And Egyptian monotheism is authentically African. A much better choice than plagiarized Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
What makes you think that way? Egyptian monotheism is more structured and is the basis for the monotheism of Judaism, Christianity and Islam-of which the latter 2 have millions and millions of Africans/blacks totally ensnared.

And Egyptian monotheism is authentically African. A much better choice than plagiarized Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

quote:
Originally posted by lamin:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/aug/20/religion-human-evolution-justice-afterlife

An interesting comment on Egyptian monotheism. It was introduced by Akhenaten of the 19th Dynasty but was quickly erased. Those who erased the concept of monotheism were probably right seeing how the one-God(Yaweh) of the desert Hebrews was portrayed and is still portrayed as a cruel and whimsical dictator. The Christians came up with the concept of a people-friendly,and benevolent dictator but the damage was already done. The Muslim plagiarists who came after preferred the idea of the cruel dictator God(Allah) just to keep the wayward in line.

Better to democratise the Heavens with multitudes of gods each with his/her own bailiwick. Makes things much more interesting--as with the Orishas of the Yoruba religion.




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lamin
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So what is the point of your citation? I already answered it.
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Linda Fahr
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China deposed Mugabe on purpose to protected it's own mineral explorations interests in Zimbabwe.

Chinese are devouring Africa natural resources, and don't want to pay their dues.

--------------------
---lnnnnn*

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lamin
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Dumb comment. How could China depose Mugabe? The new President Mnangagwa is an acolyte of Mugabe.

Mugabe fell because he was in a dotage at 93 years and that greedy, corrupt, ignorant ex-typist Grace Mugabe was planning to take over from the old man. She had to be stopped.

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mena7
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More picture of ex Zimbabwean president Robert Mugabe

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President Mugabe with Queen Elizabeth ll and Prince Phillip, the Duke of Edinburgh, at Buckingham Palace during his state visit to Britain in May 1994

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Pres Robert Mugabe and wife Gucci Grace Mugabe meets Roman Catholic Pope Francis.

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Jesuit Pope Francis met with Jesuit educated Pres Robert Mugabe

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mena

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Linda Fahr
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I disagree with Lioness and any other that are saying, all corruption in Africa is due to white man.

It is a lie.
In fact, there were slavery and slave trade in Africa, before European arrived, but still, Africans and African descents insist in saying, that were Europeans that introduced slave trade in Africa.
Not, it is not true! Not entirely. Europeans and Americans corporations offered bribes in every country they do business with. They are rotten corrupted. But, it does not mean that African honest politicians, and business people, must play their games, and are forced to accepted their bribes, and steal funds from their public sectors to deposit in Europeans and American Banks. What is very common in Africa.

What is happening in Africa, is they still learning democracy to effectively implant policies to developed their countries and improve their peoples lives. Beside, the majority of political system in Africa are profoundly corrupted, and tribal controlled. They generally applied violence and brutality to solve their political disputes. African Elites think the financial profits generated in their countries must stay and distributed among themselves. That's why poverty in Africa is contagious. Slums everywhere.

I know Africa, I visited few countries in Africa. I also noticed how intelligent and creative impoverished villagers are, even if they don't have schools available to them. All countries visited in Africa the majority of people are poor, born and died illiterate. Very few have health care available to them. African Elites don't care, because when they get sick they to to Europe,or America, generally to their countries they were colonized, because the elite in power, still have good relation with their ex colonies, as they did, and profited during colonialism. The relationship still strong.

It does not mean, that I support the brutal and cruel Scottish, English, and Iranians colonizers methods in Zimbabwe. They were greedy, controlling and slavered and semi-slavery Zimbabwe people. Life in the cities for native Africans were better than in the country side, where they were slavered by white farmers. Tobacco farmers owners, forced children and women to work for them in their plantations without pay. They were paid with few pounds of beans once a week. Child workers didn't attended schools, and were living in extreme poverty in their villages, while plantations owners and their families were living in luxury, with an upper class social clubs, and high class sport activities.

Was the time for them to leave, and go back to Europe! or however country accepted them.

I am posting a video during the Colonial period, when Zimbabwe was called Rhodesia. It shows the natural beauty of Zimbabwe, and by the middle of the video, you will see the degradation of native Africans lives, working as maids, farming and so on. European people were parasites in Zimbabwe.I have no sympathy for them at all.

South Rhodesia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfUuZV6Steo

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---lnnnnn*

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Linda Fahr
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@ lamin

How could Algerians recovered lands that never belong to them? As I know, historically Black Africans were the first inhabitants of Algeria, until the arrival of Greek Macedonians and Romans. Since then, Algeria was invaded many times, including Middle Easterners, resulting in replacement of their original black population.

You sound like Americans, which claimed United States lands as their own, but they invaded my ancestors lands about 500 years ago. Beside, it is true that Algerians are racist and hate black people? As the same as an American white supremacists hate Africans, African descendants, Arabs, and Native Central Americans?

This is about Algerians racism against West Africans.

Algeria’s Black Fear
http://africasacountry.com/2017/08/algerias-black-fear/

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---lnnnnn*

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lamin
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Again, you are being stupid in your comments. I say get another site. You are just dumb. Indigenous Berbers make up a significant portion of Algerians pre-Arab invasion. Fool, the Algerian Berbers, many of whom were Arabized, fought an anti-colonial war against the settler French and drove them out. Case closed.
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Linda Fahr
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@lamin

The case may be closed for you not for me.
How can I close a case if millions of criminals and criminals descendants of invaders still roaming on North Africa territories?

Let make clear that the members of FLN of Algeria were not blacks. They were white and light brown. They were Jewish and Arab, and African descendants named with Arab and Jewish names.

About Algerian Berbers arabized as you stated, even by the time of Almoravid, must of pure native black Berbers were already mixed race. The people which initially fought against the french, they were not Black as well. Indeed, they were mixed race of Jewish, Arab and Turk, with a dash of Vandals and Alans. In fact, who fought the French were in majority Turks and arab descendants, except in Morocco, which fought against the french where dark and black Berbers, even then, many of them, were not pure Berbers by that time.

The pure native African Berber people almost completely disappeared from Algeria Coast line, by the time they integrated into the Corsair pirates activities. Many of them were captured, killed, and sold as slaves by Europeans (spanish and italians). In fact, in Algeria now, the only pure Black you see around walking free is very few. They are not part of Algeria local society, nor are allowed to hold government jobs. They are always discriminated and called slaves, animals and peasants.

After so many invasions and genocides against them by Romans,Vandals and Alans, arabs and Turks,Italians, only very few still alive. Invaders of North Africa, miscegenated millions of them, used them as soldiers, exterminated them, slavered and sold them as slaves, and then, after completely occupied their native lands in North Africa,expelled them into the desert,which they are living as nomads Tuaregs, without country of their own, which is absolutely unacceptable! While the invaders, beside living in their lands, discriminate against them, and prohibit their entrance in North African Countries.

--------------------
---lnnnnn*

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Linda Fahr
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@ lamin

I think by defend the Chinese, you are completely ignorant of what is going on in Zimbabwe and the Chinese growing influence in the country since their Yuan currency became official tender in Zimbabwe.

One of the reasons the Chinese deposed Mugabe, was because their diamonds mines were nationalized by Zimbabwe government, because the Chinese government did not comply with the signed contract clause specifically related to a yearly payment contribution to the public education sector of Zimbabwe. The Chinese instead deposit the money on the public school fund, were busy investing buying ex-European farms in the region. Today the chinese own millions of acreages in Zimbabwe by acquiring dozens of farms.

Mugabe became high risk for the Chinese, which decided to get rid of him, when General Chiwenga visited Beijing shortly before the tanks rolled into Harare.

The Chinese can be brutal. Africans may be careful with them. Don't forget what happened in Zambia, when the Chinese refused to pay the mine workers the established monthly minimum wage which was only a miserable $220.00, much less they pay for their chinese workers in China. They wanted to slaved Zambian mine workers, ending up in death of the greedy and corrupted manager Wu Shengzai, after he attempt to kill Zambian miners during a protest.

Watch out, because China already has a military base in Africa, based on excuse to protect their merchant ships from Somalian pirates. It will be question of time, when they will impose their will and brutally colonize Africa. African slowly are being colonized again by the Chinese and Arabs, which has as well military base in the Horn of Africa. That's the same region they first started their brutal colonization of Africa by the time arabs invented their god Allah from the Alan people?

Here is the BBC link about the chinese manager death in Zambia.

Zambian miners kill Chinese manager during pay protest
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-19135435

--------------------
---lnnnnn*

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