posted
Because I've been seeing it way too many damn times in this community...
I understand that anti-African/anti-black prejudice is pervasive in many Islamicized North African and Middle Eastern countries, and that many natives of those countries would prefer to identify as "white" or "Caucasoid" despite many of them actually having a mixed heritage that includes native African ancestry. And I totally understand that this is frustrating for many "Afrocentric" people here.
But let's not forget that, in many Western nations, Muslim and Middle Eastern people are still marginalized. They already receive too much suspicion and demonization from white supremacists, Islamophobes, and like-minded cretins to put up with. They don't need additional persecution from "pro-black" people who claim to be anti-racist. Racism and xenophobia in any direction should be considered unacceptable. We need to rise above that sort of shit.
posted
Do you have any idea how deeply aggressive Muslim culture is to non-Muslims? Not talking about individuals or people, but the undertones in their culture.
Not that I support Muslim bashing or anything like that. But as someone who is likely to be subject to their racism and intolerance, I'm not exactly getting in line to cape for them on these issues.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
[and I'm still a nigga jewboy now what you going to do Toy
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Oh please First off no one is “ bashing” Muslims. We are calling a spade a spade. Fact of the matter is that Arab Muslims like European Christians have their fair share of destruction and racism in the history of dealing with Africans and Africa. To this day blacks are boldly called abdeed and toil on the margins of poverty and slavery in Muslim countries and have never apologized nor recognized their eastern slave trade which existed hundreds of years before and after the western one. These people wrote racist slandering drivel on Africans describing them no better than animals in their literature. No other race needed a scholar to defend them except Africans so spare me the crocodile tears because African people are not singing Cum by ya to a people with such a track record.
Also cry me river with that “poor Muslims are being marginalized” crap. What does that have to do with anything. How does that change the fact that Africans are still enslaved in places like Mauritania?
quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: Because I've been seeing it way too many damn times in this community...
I understand that anti-African/anti-black prejudice is pervasive in many Islamicized North African and Middle Eastern countries, and that many natives of those countries would prefer to identify as "white" or "Caucasoid" despite many of them actually having a mixed heritage that includes native African ancestry. And I totally understand that this is frustrating for many "Afrocentric" people here.
But let's not forget that, in many Western nations, Muslim and Middle Eastern people are still marginalized. They already receive too much suspicion and demonization from white supremacists, Islamophobes, and like-minded cretins to put up with. They don't need additional persecution from "pro-black" people who claim to be anti-racist. Racism and xenophobia in any direction should be considered unacceptable. We need to rise above that sort of shit.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
What gets me is that because Muslims and Arabs are receiving suspicion from the West partially due to certain destructive and violent tendencies of their religion that they are now being paraded as the victims by the liberal establishment. Now we are supposed to ignore the racist, colonialist, war mongering, slave trading skeletons in their closet and put them on a pedal stool all the while abdeed is a common everyday slur against blacks living in their countries. Even Europeans are not that bold.
No one is bashing Muslims. Bashing implies insults without due merit. Everything I, Al, lamin etc say about Arabs can be backed up with evidence.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Do you have any idea how deeply aggressive Muslim culture is to non-Muslims? Not talking about individuals or people, but the undertones in their culture.
Not that I support Muslim bashing or anything like that. But as someone who is likely to be subject to their racism and intolerance, I'm not exactly getting in line to cape for them on these issues.
Racism can flow in all directions. Suppose a Middle Eastern individual were to find a community like this where their people are being bashed like in this thread? How would you feel if they came to the conclusion that people of African descent weren't worth supporting because of sentiments expressed here? Sure, it'd be a fallacious overgeneralization. But it's the same sort of mentality that people are showing here.
For that matter, how would people here feel if Khoisan or Central African pygmy people were to bash Bantu-speakers for historically displacing them in much of central and southern Africa? They would have the same marginalization card many of you are using to justify your prejudice against Middle Easterners. How would everyone here react to that?
quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: Suppose a Middle Eastern individual were to find a community like this where their people are being bashed like in this thread?
We have already had plenty of Middle Eastern people here and the vast majority are some of the most racist trolls in the history of ES.
quote:How would you feel if they came to the conclusion that people of African descent weren't worth supporting because of sentiments expressed here?
Who cares? We don't owe them anything, and sorry if most posters here who are familiar with their behavior are not trying to coddle up to them in some misguided Liberal bleeding heart defence of the poor downtrodden innocent Arab.
If an Arab or their defenders has a sound reasonable argument proving us wrong on their behavior with Africans then so be it, Im always open for debate...
put up or shut up..
quote:Sure, it'd be a fallacious overgeneralization. But it's the same sort of mentality that people are showing here.
Who here has presented fallacious argumentation...Names??
quote:For that matter, how would people here feel if Khoisan or Central African pygmy people were to bash Bantu-speakers for historically displacing them in much of central and southern Africa? They would have the same marginalization card many of you are using to justify your prejudice against Middle Easterners. How would everyone here react to that?
If any Pygmy or Khoisan wants to create a thread or forum listing the injustices done to their people at the hand of Bantu Speakers go ahead no one is stopping them, that said no Bantu Speaker Historically Enslaved Pygmies for thousands of years until the present day, no Bantu tribe went into Pygmy and Khiosan lands and slandered the natives for hundreds of years etc. the list goes on...You're comparing apples to oranges in your senseless apologia of Arabs. ...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Don’t get me wrong. I understand what you mean. But I disagree with your portrayal of them as victims of one-sided marginalization and aggression. Muslim culture is indifferent, if not aggressive and oppressive to non-Muslims. If Obama hadn’t jumped in, what Muslim countries/oil sheikh charities would have lined up to protect Yezidis? Same to the people of Darfur (many of whom were Muslims, mind you). What Muslim country was moved to outrage like they do for a select few, like Palestinians? The list goes on and the message is clear. We know their priorities and indifference as a culture to non-Muslims and even Muslim minorities. They don’t care about anyone’s plight unless you’re Muslim, and even then you have to be a Muslim of the right 'race'/ethnicity to get some sympathy.
I’ve seen too much of how they treat Africans and non-Muslims to cry and cape like Mahershala Ali.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Because I've been seeing it way too many damn times in this community...
This thread is not going to get anywhere unless you have examples so people understand exactly what you are referring to
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Because I've been seeing it way too many damn times in this community...
This thread is not going to get anywhere unless you have examples so people understand exactly what you are referring to
I've seen examples of that hostility plenty of times, but this post by Jari in another thread (which I've reported to the admin, BTW) prompted my callout here:
quote:Lets not forget the reason why Al-Jahiz had to make his book on the Boasts of the Sudan in the first place...it was a REACTION to the Hundreds of years of racist slandering by Arab and Persian writers who beat and often times put to shame the 19th and 20th century Ethnocentric White Supremist European writers and explorers on African inferiority.
His book was unique in all the literature of the so called Islamic golden age, which is very similar to modern Afrocentric scholarship which is a reaction against white academic and scientific racism.....
Yet you have African and African Diaspora peoples trying to include these invader racist barbarian savages as some kind of lesser evil.
The fact is the Arab has never been and never will be, a an ally of African people. Hell Arabs put Europeans to shame in the colonialist subterfuge they implemented on Africa, esp North Africa and the Nile Valley.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Don’t get me wrong. I understand what you mean. But I disagree with your portrayal of them as victims of one-sided marginalization and aggression. Muslim culture is indifferent, if not aggressive and oppressive to non-Muslims. If Obama hadn’t jumped in, what Muslim countries/oil sheikh charities would have lined up to protect Yezidis? Same to the people of Darfur (many of whom were Muslims, mind you). What Muslim country was moved to outrage like they do for a select few, like Palestinians? The list goes on and the message is clear. We know their priorities and indifference as a culture to non-Muslims and even Muslim minorities. They don’t care about anyone’s plight unless you’re Muslim, and even then you have to be a Muslim of the right 'race'/ethnicity to get some sympathy.
I’ve seen too much of how they treat Africans and non-Muslims to cry and cape like Mahershala Ali.
Never denied that the Arab and Islamic world have their own prejudices and injustices. I admitted as such in the OP. But like I said, racial animus goes in all directions. Not even African or Afro-Diasporan people are necessarily immune to it.
For another example, take the African-Americans who claim that "black" people are the true aboriginal inhabitants of the Americas, as if the Native Americans were later invaders from Siberia. I'm sure plenty of Native Americans would rightly take offense to that claim. How would people here feel if these Natives chose not to cape for African-Americans because of those loonies?
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Do they really advocate for AAs? You had the issue with the Cherokee Freedman not to mention most natives in the U.S are whites "passing."
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: I've seen examples of that hostility plenty of times, but this post by Jari in another thread (which I've reported to the admin, BTW) prompted my callout here:
OK, I see it was in the Meghan Markle thread Jari has a long history of strong dislike of Arabs and Islam. One wonders if it had something personal behind it. Yes he made an inappropriate blanket statement about a whole people
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
"What Muslim country was moved to outrage like they do for a select few, like Palestinians?"
Palestinians are also treated terribly by other Arabs. Dont mistake 'Muslim outrage' for Palestine with actually having Palestinians best interests at heart or translating into treating them decently. There are many human rights abuses committed against Palestinians in other Muslim countries.
"We have already had plenty of Middle Eastern people here and the vast majority are some of the most racist trolls in the history of ES."
Ive lurked on this site for years before joining and the Middle Eastern posters your asserting are members come off more as sock-puppets.
Posts: 61 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2016
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quote:Originally posted by Karem: "What Muslim country was moved to outrage like they do for a select few, like Palestinians?"
Palestinians are also treated terribly by other Arabs. Dont mistake 'Muslim outrage' for Palestine with actually having Palestinians best interests at heart or translating into treating them decently. There are many human rights abuses committed against Palestinians in other Muslim countries.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Don’t get me wrong. I understand what you mean. But I disagree with your portrayal of them as victims of one-sided marginalization and aggression. Muslim culture is indifferent, if not aggressive and oppressive to non-Muslims. If Obama hadn’t jumped in, what Muslim countries/oil sheikh charities would have lined up to protect Yezidis? Same to the people of Darfur (many of whom were Muslims, mind you). What Muslim country was moved to outrage like they do for a select few, like Palestinians? The list goes on and the message is clear. We know their priorities and indifference as a culture to non-Muslims and even Muslim minorities. They don’t care about anyone’s plight unless you’re Muslim, and even then you have to be a Muslim of the right 'race'/ethnicity to get some sympathy.
I’ve seen too much of how they treat Africans and non-Muslims to cry and cape like Mahershala Ali.
Never denied that the Arab and Islamic world have their own prejudices and injustices. I admitted as such in the OP. But like I said, racial animus goes in all directions. Not even African or Afro-Diasporan people are necessarily immune to it.
For another example, take the African-Americans who claim that "black" people are the true aboriginal inhabitants of the Americas, as if the Native Americans were later invaders from Siberia. I'm sure plenty of Native Americans would rightly take offense to that claim. How would people here feel if these Natives chose not to cape for African-Americans because of those loonies?
Ok. Not trying to turn this into a debate. Just mean to say it's difficult to have sympathy on racism issues for people who are (culturally, at least, if not at the individual level) extremely racist, divisive and intolerant. In their culture there is a very warped and nepotist sense of justice where (approved) Muslims are seen as brothers while non-Muslims are fair game for all kinds of mistreatment.
I hope you know you fall in the latter category, like all non-Muslims.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
First off who the hell is bashing Muslims or Middle Easterners on here? Second if I hear any Middle Easterner say anything racist/slick about Black ppl Im not holding back in roasting them like on FBD. Like seriously?
How about you tell them to stop oppressing Africans and other non-Mena people in their countries.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Do you have any idea how deeply aggressive Muslim culture is to non-Muslims? Not talking about individuals or people, but the undertones in their culture.
Not that I support Muslim bashing or anything like that. But as someone who is likely to be subject to their racism and intolerance, I'm not exactly getting in line to cape for them on these issues.
Totally agree.
-------------------- “Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.” Posts: 195 | From: Southern Africa(Azania) | Registered: Mar 2017
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posted
Arab military and cultural imperialism in the form of Islam has produced a massive alienation of the African self for centuries. The ongoing cruel violence of Boko Haram against Africans proves the point.
It's as if Africans are incapable of being agents of their own cultural lives.
There are so many alternatives, yet the majority of the population above the Equator willingly embrace Arab cultural imperialism as they bow down to the Qur'an--a heavily plagiarized text-- and Mecca, the imperial Arab headquarters.
The irony of the situation is that while French, British, Belgian, and Portuguese colonialisms have been decried and exposed for their negativities, Arab Islam is naively embraced.
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