posted
I say Afrocentrism is dead and no longer needed, its an obsolete discipline. Most of Eurocentrism has been debunked with the exception of the Hamitic Hypothesis which still exists in various forms.
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: How are you defining Afrocentrism here?
Clyde Winters style Afrocentrism, not Molefi Asante Afrocentrism
Most of Clyde Winters's claims (e.g. Mande Olmecs) were always far removed from reality and rejected by mainstream scholarship, not merely obsolete. I do think it is high time his brand of pseudo-history get discarded and lose credibility among the public, but unfortunately bullshit claims like his have a tendency to hold onto popularity if they have enough emotional appeal to their believers. That's also why Graham Hancock's nonsense about an advanced Pleistocene "Atlantis"-style civilization has managed to get itself broadcasted in a recent Netflix documentary series and the History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" is still going strong after over a decade. Why, you even have people on YouTube claiming the Earth is flat despite the ancient Greeks having debunked that more than two millennia ago.
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: How are you defining Afrocentrism here?
Clyde Winters style Afrocentrism, not Molefi Asante Afrocentrism
Most of Clyde Winters's claims (e.g. Mande Olmecs) were always far removed from reality and rejected by mainstream scholarship, not merely obsolete. I do think it is high time his brand of pseudo-history get discarded and lose credibility among the public, but unfortunately bullshit claims like his have a tendency to hold onto popularity if they have enough emotional appeal to their believers. That's also why Graham Hancock's nonsense about an advanced Pleistocene "Atlantis"-style civilization has managed to get itself broadcasted in a recent Netflix documentary series and the History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" is still going strong after over a decade. Why, you even have people on YouTube claiming the Earth is flat despite the ancient Greeks having debunked that more than two millennia ago.
In addition to that, most of the claims and theories from Eurocentrists have been debunked by genetics and archaeology, we got to remember most of Eurocentrism was centered around colonialism and trying to justify it.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
^ What's worse is that Clyde Winters style 'Afrocentrism' is being used by Eurocentrics and white supremacists as one big straw dummy to beat on and distract the general audience from relevant facts brought up by the likes of Molefi Asante, Shomarka Keita, and even Egyptians like Moustafa Gadalla etc. You can't believe the number of times I've searched Clyde's works to find them cited in websites like Stormfront or American Renaissance as a comical polemic against Afrocentric study.
PS. The reason why Eurocentrism has been reduced to or rather reverted back to 'Hamitic Hypothesis' is due to the simple fact of the Nubian paradox i.e. that the ancient Nubians are the Egyptians' closest relatives therefore they have to be white-washed or rather "Eurasianized" as well.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ What's worse is that Clyde Winters style 'Afrocentrism' is being used by Eurocentrics and white supremacists as one big straw dummy to beat on and distract the general audience from relevant facts brought up by the likes of Molefi Asante, Shomarka Keita, and even Egyptians like Moustafa Gadalla etc. You can't believe the number of times I've searched Clyde's works to find them cited in websites like Stormfront or American Renaissance as a comical polemic against Afrocentric study.
PS. The reason why Eurocentrism has been reduced to or rather reverted back to 'Hamitic Hypothesis' is due to the simple fact of the Nubian paradox i.e. that the ancient Nubians are the Egyptians' closest relatives therefore they have to be white-washed or rather "Eurasianized" as well.
Yeah, I've seen Antalas try to "Eurasianize" Nubians, when no publication has stated no such thing
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
As you are describing it, Its dead. These types of people have falling behind that times and wallow into pseudo science.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ What's worse is that Clyde Winters style 'Afrocentrism' is being used by Eurocentrics and white supremacists as one big straw dummy to beat on and distract the general audience from relevant facts brought up by the likes of Molefi Asante, Shomarka Keita, and even Egyptians like Moustafa Gadalla etc. You can't believe the number of times I've searched Clyde's works to find them cited in websites like Stormfront or American Renaissance as a comical polemic against Afrocentric study.
LOL, he and hoteps like him are almost useful to the Eurocentric cause for the reason you state. They come in handy for poisoning the well.
Unfortunately, the pseudoscholars are making a lot more noise than the serious ones. I recently had to cut ties with the dude who runs the "Nubiamancy" account on Instagram because he was using his (not insubstantial) platform to promote wacky pseudo-linguistics like this:
Goes to show you that lies and bullcrap have a way of drowning out the truth.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LMAO Reminds me of Clyde's take that Dravidian is closely related to Mande as well as Ainu.
Yep, pretty much that style of pseudo-linguistics.
It just sucks that most of the world outside the African/Afro-Diasporan community associates the African Egypt paradigm with these fringe lunatics and therefore treats it like a fringe hypothesis. To be honest, as someone who is interested in history and anthropology, it's created a rift between me and others in that community, even the not-so-racist and more progressive ones. Mind you, most of those people have no problem accepting sophisticated Black civilizations in Mali, Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, or even Sudan, yet somehow Kemet and other ancient North African civilizations have to be "not Black" or else you're a fringe wacko. It's been a ongoing source of frustration for me and makes me feel unwelcome in those circles.
It wouldn't be so bad if I could change their minds on the topic, but in my experience, most people are too stubborn to change their minds on topics like this, and I no longer have the stamina or patience to get into anthropological arguments anyway. You might as well argue with creationists or flat earthers.
posted
In the Black American community hotep like Afrocentrics are slowly dying and getting clowned. I.e the Dr Umar types.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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Afrocentrism is an approach to the study of world history that focuses on the history of people of recent African descent.[1] It is in some respects a response to Eurocentric attitudes about African people and their historical contributions. It seeks to counter what it sees as mistakes and ideas perpetuated by the racist philosophical underpinnings of Western academic disciplines as they developed during and since Europe's Early Renaissance as justifying rationales for the enslavement of other peoples, in order to enable more accurate accounts of not only African but all people's contributions to world history.[2] Afrocentricity deals primarily with self-determination and African agency and is a Pan-African point of view for the study of culture, philosophy, and history.[3][4]
Afrocentrism is a scholarly movement that seeks to conduct research and education on global history subjects, from the perspective of historical African peoples and polities. It takes a critical stance on Eurocentric assumptions and myths about world history, in order to pursue methodological studies of the latter. Some of the critics of the movement believe that it often denies or minimizes European, Near Eastern, and Asian cultural influences while exaggerating certain aspects of historical African civilizations that independently accomplished a significant level of cultural and technological development. In general, Afrocentrism is usually manifested in a focus on the history of Africa and its role in contemporary African-American culture among others.
What is today broadly called Afrocentrism evolved out of the work of African-American intellectuals in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, but flowered into its modern form due to the activism of African-American intellectuals in the U.S. civil rights movement and in the development of African-American Studies programs in universities. However, following the development of universities in African colonies in the 1950s, African scholars became major contributors to African historiography.[5] A notable pioneer is the professor Kenneth Dike, who became chairman of the Committee on African Studies at Harvard in the 1970s.[6] In strict terms Afrocentrism, as a distinct historiography, reached its peak in the 1980s and 1990s.[citation needed] Today[when?] it is primarily associated with Cheikh Anta Diop, John Henrik Clarke, Ivan van Sertima and Molefi Kete Asante. Asante, however, describes his theories as Afrocentricity.[7]
Proponents of Afrocentrism support the claim that the contributions of various Black African people have been downplayed or discredited as part of the legacy of colonialism and slavery's pathology of "writing Africans out of history".[8][9] Major critics of Afrocentrism include Mary Lefkowitz, who dismiss it as pseudohistory,[10] reactive,[11] and obstinately therapeutic.[12] Others, such as Kwame Anthony Appiah, believe that Afrocentrism defeats its purpose of dismantling unipolar studies of world history by seeking to replace Eurocentricity with an equally ethnocentric and hierarchical curriculum, and negatively essentializes European culture and people of European descent. Clarence E. Walker claims it to be "Eurocentrism in blackface".[13]
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: I say Afrocentrism is dead and no longer needed, its an obsolete discipline. Most of Eurocentrism has been debunked with the exception of the Hamitic Hypothesis which still exists in various forms.
Thoughts?
Of course not. African centered scholarship is more valid now than it ever was. But most people when they think of Afrocentrism they think of debates about the skin color of people in the ancient Nile Valley and that is not what African centered or Afrocentric scholarship is all about. And we all know that Eurocentric scholarship has not been defeated and they still promote the same propaganda about Africa and skin color as they always have as you yourself just admitted. Eurocentrism itself is basically a reference to the fact that African historicy, archaeology and anthropology is dominated by Europeans and European institutions. To get a degree in the field of Egyptology, you have to go to Europe and most artifacts from the Nile are in European and other foreign institutions. And that is the fundamental problem, compounded by their dominance of global media. Ultimately the only answer is for Africans to own their own history and the telling of it, which is not currently a high priority for most Africans in the diaspora. So if the issue is whether Africans are doing what it takes to actually create and promote African centered scholarship among African people in the world, that is debatable. Arguing on internet forums is not going to accomplish that goal on its own and cannot be used to judge progress in any real sense.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: [qb] I say Afrocentrism is dead and no longer needed, its an obsolete discipline. Most of Eurocentrism has been debunked with the exception of the Hamitic Hypothesis which still exists in various forms.
Thoughts?
Of course not. African centered scholarship is more valid now than it ever was.
What are the names of a couple of current Afrocentric scholars who doing valid work?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: [qb] I say Afrocentrism is dead and no longer needed, its an obsolete discipline. Most of Eurocentrism has been debunked with the exception of the Hamitic Hypothesis which still exists in various forms.
Thoughts?
Of course not. African centered scholarship is more valid now than it ever was.
What are the names of a couple of current Afrocentric scholars who doing valid work?
What work are you doing? NOTHING.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
Why, you even have people on YouTube claiming the Earth is flat despite the ancient Greeks having debunked that more than two millennia ago. [/qb][/QUOTE]In addition to that, most of the claims and theories from Eurocentrists have been debunked by genetics and archaeology, we got to remember most of Eurocentrism was centered around colonialism and trying to justify it. [/QB][/QUOTE]
The Greeks didn't debunk anything. If we're speaking about mythical fantasies lets kill this notion that some Greeks stuck some sticks in the ground and measured the earth. That's nonsense and a retcon of history. It has been proven time and time again. The Earth is flat.
Posts: 1 | From: United States | Registered: Feb 2023
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posted
"Clyde Winters style Afrocentrism, not Molefi Asante Afrocentrism"
The only people I've known to believe the sort of stuff the former promotes are NOI members or Malachi York followers. People who think that talk of Kemet being African are "wacko's" tend to be 'alt-right' internet trolls. Intelligent criticisms of Afrocentrism and cultural nationalism deal with things like philosophical ideas, the over emphasis on recognition, diversity as justice etc, rather than if this or that civilization is Black.
Posts: 61 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2016
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quote:Originally posted by Karem: The only people I've known to believe the sort of stuff the former promotes are NOI members or Malachi York followers. People who think that talk of Kemet being African are "wacko's" tend to be 'alt-right' internet trolls.
I wish this was true. Unfortunately, I've found that even relatively progressive people (especially non-Black ones) are often resistant to the idea of Kemetians being "Black", since they assume Egyptians today all look "Middle Eastern" and that the native range of "Black people" is the sub-Saharan area of Africa. It goes to show that even people who don't mean to be racist can still be conditioned by White supremacist, anti-Black narratives.
posted
Liberals, or progressives are the worst offenders, but them being "resistant" regarding how they view Kemet isn't a blanket affront to all Black people. They're more enlightened liberal counterparts, who acknowledge African civilizations, aren't exactly better. For them, the representation of Kemet is the catalyst for concern and outrage, but they're largely silent on the daily exploitation of working class Black people.
Its interesting you mention that. A few years ago in England, there was a student union president of Algerian descent who got some heat, at least online, for identifying as Black or politically Black. Some of the criticism was from people racialized as Black i.e sub-Saharan. There was a pages and pages long thread on this site about the use of the term too. It might be an unpopular opinion, but not every instance of people recognizing difference between above and below the Sahara is racism or white supremacy. People will sometimes talk about how foundational Egyptologists like Petrie used this narrative and the 'Hamitic Hypothesis' as if it somehow benefitted the modern population, but forget to mention that despite his beliefs about Ancient Egyptians being closer to Europeans, he was racist about the current inhabitants of the land, thought of them less favourably than the ancients, and used said beliefs to help justify European colonialism.
Posts: 61 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2016
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quote:Originally posted by Karem: People will sometimes talk about how foundational Egyptologists like Petrie used this narrative and the 'Hamitic Hypothesis' as if it somehow benefitted the modern population, but forget to mention that despite his beliefs about Ancient Egyptians being closer to Europeans, he was racist about the current inhabitants of the land, thought of them less favourably than the ancients, and used said beliefs to help justify European colonialism.
Usually people with that kind of cognitive dissonance try to justify it by saying that the trans-Saharan slave trade somehow darkened Egyptians and other North Africans over the centuries after antiquity. Ironically, even anti-Black North Africans themselves sometimes endorse that same argument, since they're that intent on distancing their prestigious ancient ancestors from the dreaded stain of Blackness. Unlike traditional White supremacists, they're willing to admit having Black ancestry as long as it doesn't affect the part of their history they want to take pride in.
As far as the supposedly progressive people I was talking about, it's possible some of them genuinely worry that ancient North Africans being represented as Black somehow erases the current "Caucasoid" inhabitants of the region. But when you see how stubbornly so many of them cling to the status quo despite being presented evidence to the contrary, it starts looking less like advocacy on behalf of current North Africans and more like a desire to marginalize the significance of Black African people in the region's history.
Not so long ago, I was sharing a colorization I did of an ancient coin (or plaque) depicting the Numidian king Massinissa on a forum with a mostly progressive membership. This Spanish guy, one of the most left-leaning posters in that forum, said that depicting ancient North Africans like Massinissa as Black was erasing "non-Black people of color" in the area. I wonder what he'd have to say about all the Black people currently residing in North Africa. If his stance is that North Africans in Numidian times looked just like their modern counterparts, does that include Black North Africans too? Or are they to be written off as later trans-Saharan entrants?
Oh, and when I told the dude about all the racism I'd seen from anti-Black North African trolls on the Internet, his retort was "it's not a good look to say North Africans are being racist" about the topic. It made me wonder if a mask wasn’t slipping there.
Its interesting you mention that. A few years ago in England, there was a student union president of Algerian descent who got some heat, at least online, for identifying as Black or politically Black. Some of the criticism was from people racialized as Black i.e sub-Saharan. There was a pages and pages long thread on this site about the use of the term too.
quote:Originally posted by Karem: It might be an unpopular opinion, but not every instance of people recognizing difference between above and below the Sahara is racism or white supremacy.
what do you mean, do you have an example?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Karem: [QB] Liberals, or progressives are the worst offenders, but them being "resistant" regarding how they view Kemet isn't a blanket affront to all Black people. They're more enlightened liberal counterparts, who acknowledge African civilizations, aren't exactly better. For them, the representation of Kemet is the catalyst for concern and outrage, but they're largely silent on the daily exploitation of working class Black people.
If working class Black people are not liberals or progressives what are they politically,
or are they conservative or apolitical?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
"Usually people with that kind of cognitive dissonance try to justify it by saying that the trans-Saharan slave trade somehow darkened Egyptians and other North Africans over the centuries after antiquity. Ironically, even anti-Black North Africans themselves sometimes endorse that same argument, since they're that intent on distancing their prestigious ancient ancestors from the dreaded stain of Blackness. Unlike traditional White supremacists, they're willing to admit having Black ancestry as long as it doesn't affect the part of their history they want to take pride in."
Yes, and aren't necessarily trying to claim European or Arab either. Most people however, are concerned with providing for themselves, not the racial identity of ancient civilizations.
"As far as the supposedly progressive people I was talking about, it's possible some of them genuinely worry that ancient North Africans being represented as Black somehow erases the current "Caucasoid" inhabitants of the region. But when you see how stubbornly so many of them cling to the status quo despite being presented evidence to the contrary, it starts looking less like advocacy on behalf of current North Africans and more like a desire to marginalize the significance of Black African people in the region's history."
That exists, although not every defence of current populations is racialised. Some of the race first camp are more concerned with furthering they're own class interests, and treat cultural recognition of monarchical Aftica as if it's a political movement. Also, the language of 'erasure' often gets used to essentialize race and fetishise on the liberal politics of representation.
"Not so long ago, I was sharing a colorization I did of an ancient coin (or plaque) depicting the Numidian king Massinissa on a forum with a mostly progressive membership. This Spanish guy, one of the most left-leaning posters in that forum, said that depicting ancient North Africans like Massinissa as Black was erasing "non-Black people of color" in the area. I wonder what he'd have to say about all the Black people currently residing in North Africa. If his stance is that North Africans in Numidian times looked just like their modern counterparts, does that include Black North Africans too? Or are they to be written off as later trans-Saharan entrants?"
This seems like a largely online phenomenon. When the Arab Spring kicked off, I bet the main gripe was all about the representation of ancient ancestors, not government corruption, or capitalism.
Posts: 61 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2016
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posted
I wonder what he'd have to say about all the Black people currently residing in North Africa. If his stance is that North Africans in Numidian times looked just like their modern counterparts, does that include Black North Africans too? Or are they to be written off as later trans-Saharan entrants?"
Some of those online claiming to be "Arab" or of "North African" descent are among the most racist posters. But that's just online. In the real world racism against black people is plentiful in "North Africa" and the Arab world. The experiences of black women in these areas, such as Egypt is a blunt eye-opener. Racial profiling, racist insults, etc etc the list goes on and on.. Note use of the "N" word below in Egypt..
Her experience as a teacher in some of New Cairo’s most exclusive international schools has done nothing but to reinforce the strength of her claim. “Matrons burst chaotically into the classroom and go straight to my assistant without acknowledging me, and I often overheard staff use the word abeed when referring to me,” she says. Earlier this year, the American Director and the Chief Educational Officer offered her an administrative position, but she was not given a salary raise or a renewed contract. “I was completely underpaid for what I was doing.”
At work, in the streets, in stores and while sitting in a café, African women endure the daily burden of double-standards in a society who denounces Western racism but “lives in denial,” as writer Mona Eltahawy puts it, and overlooks racist attitudes perpetrated within their own societies. “I have even been followed in stores, and not in a friendly way to make sure I am alright or to assist me as a paying customer. There are numerous occasions I have had when I would be asked rudely: ‘what do you want?’ There have been those incidents of being followed only because people the owner or workers think you are going to steal,” Clark adds.
Her colleague Laurel Butler was publicly ridiculed when a waiter in a café blatantly ignored her. “I was sitting with some expat friends who were blonde Western women, and after taking their order, the waiter ignored me. I tried to ask him again, and he pretended not to hear me and walked away; when I finally went to the counter, I heard them speaking and calling me a 'nigger bitch',” says Butler..
For Butler, discrimination in the job market still remains the most problematic aspect. “I have lost many opportunities because when they see me at the interview, they turn around. Egyptians treat me like an unwanted immigrant.” Butler is referring to a debate that has recently taken over media outlets at a global scale: why are white people called expats while the rest are called immigrants?
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
African American YouTuber and debater Chief X is storming against books that include ideas of the kind mentioned in the OP. He urges people not buying those kind of books.
quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: I say Afrocentrism is dead and no longer needed, its an obsolete discipline. Most of Eurocentrism has been debunked with the exception of the Hamitic Hypothesis which still exists in various forms.
Thoughts?
Eurocentrism has never been debunked, it is alive and well and Africans doing African centered scholarship and being the primary researchers of African history will always be necessary. Whether you want to call that Afrocentrism or something else.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: African American YouTuber and debater Chief X is storming against books that include ideas of the kind mentioned in the OP. He urges people not buying those kind of books.
Nobody cares about chief x, he is a wikipedia/google scholar who has no idea what he's talking about. It's no surprise you are trying to prop up "african americans" like him.
Starting at 7:23 of this video he puts his complete ignorance of african history on full display:
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: African American YouTuber and debater Chief X is storming against books that include ideas of the kind mentioned in the OP. He urges people not buying those kind of books.
Nobody cares about chief x, he is a wikipedia/google scholar who has no idea what he's talking about. It's no surprise you are trying to prop up "african americans" like him.
Starting at 7:23 of this video he puts his complete ignorance of african history on full display:
"...Moors were north african muslims... we are not that, we are sub-saharan africans"
I'm sure you love oversimplified historical rhetoric like this though.
Bingo....this clown probably doesn't even realize most West Africans of the Sahel were Muslims too.
Posts: 58 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Mar 2023
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Interestingly Chief X seems to have gained a certain popularity in Egypt. Snippets of his videos can be seen with subtext in Arabic in some Egyptian videos on social media. Seems he got more known there during the Netflix Cleopatra debate
posted
I have'nt watched the video, and honestly don't plan to, but is he wrong, if his argument was that the "Moors"(and Im assuming he talking about the Andalucian Moors) were mainly North African not SSA or Sahelian.(I mean if we ignore the Ruling Arab Elite, Muwalladun converts, and Saqalibba and other European slaves and subject native Spanish..)
At the same time, the first Berber led and ruled state in Andalus was the Almoravids who did employ so called SSAs from Tekrur, and apperantly there are primary sources describing the Almoravids as dark skinned by the Andalucians they conquered...I have'nt found the source but its been aluded to in books and documentaries on Moorish Occupied Spain
quote:Originally posted by LoStranger: Bingo....this clown probably doesn't even realize most West Africans of the Sahel were Muslims too.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Here is another video by Chief X where he warns about listening to all kinds of Internet pseudo scholars without formal academic training in any relevant subject.
posted
I have no YouTube channel where I sit and promote all sorts of home made theories. And I actually have an academic training in archaeology. And I have worked with excavations, archaeological surveys and also on museums. I do not claim expertise on ancient Egypt though since my field of work is Scandinavian archaeology. But I have former student comrades, now colleagues who work in different parts of the world.
When it concerns Chief X academic merits you have to ask him. But as I understand it he does not claim to have any. He just challenges others, without formal academic training who have YouTube channels and other social media outlets and sit and regurgitate all kinds of weird theories.
As for me I prefer to listen to experts with formal academic training when I want to learn about a subject. But I can also listen to other sources, if not for other reasons than entertainment.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
What about when you post on here regarding topics in which you have no formal academic training?
Chief X has no formal academic training so he should not be sharing any information to "challenge" anyone else, according to his own logic.
He's a contradiction.
Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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Well, at least sometimes I have asked people who have a formal training, as for example when I some times posted about ancient Mesoamerica (and ancient Americas in general). Sometimes I post based on academic papers and books I read.
Anyone has the right to share what he wants, the question is if one shall take it seriously or not. That is in the end up to the individual.
Regarding Chief X, I seldom heard him challenge academic papers or academics in the fields he addresses. Mostly he challenges amateurs online.
Of course some amateurs can also be very knowledgeable and have a lot to say. One must just try to separate the wheat from the chaff, especially on social media with its mix of all kinds of information, theories and speculation.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
So in other words, simply put, chief x's statement does apply to folk like yourself
Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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He mostly challenges other YouTubers. In one video (posted above) he also reviewed (or rather scolded) a book by a couple of authors who according to him still uphold the idea of African Olmecs.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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posted
To go back to the original question. Yes, the kind of Afrocentrism talked about in the OP seems rather dead in serious academic contexts. But some of it still lives its own life on social media.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
The statement you quoted from him is not limited to other YouTubers, it would encompass people like yourself as well.
Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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The issue is that any time an African scholar says something that disagrees with the status quo it becomes "Afrocentric" as a way of claiming it is pseudo science, especially when it involves African prehistory and DNA. So it is always subjective as to what equates to "that kind" of Afrocentrism, because at the end of the day, even legit scholars like Diop are called Afrocentrists. And whenever someone brings up "that kind" of Afrocentrism it is suspect because usually no actual names of individual scholars or work they have put out is ever referenced. So it just becomes "anonymous Afrocentric boogeyman" as opposed to any serious scholarship. And it gets worse today because you have fewer serious scholars writing books like Diop and other wrote in the past which could be critiqued. So most people depend on anonymous social media persons to use as an argument for "that kind" of Afrocentrism , but social media is full of all kinds of people saying whatever they want about anything, which is not unique to African history or any other topic.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: The statement you quoted from him is not limited to other YouTubers, it would encompass people like yourself as well.
It is mostly YouTubers he challenges, many of them amateurs without formal training in history, archaeology, anthropology or similar subjects. Also most of the ones he is challenging belong to the African American community. He especially challenges Afrocentrics.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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posted
Chief X main message seems to be that most African Americans descend from West Africa and Central Africa, and that they should concentrate on those countries and not fixate on Egypt, other North African countries or ancient Israel. Or as he puts it: "leave those peoples shit alone".
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The issue is that any time an African scholar says something that disagrees with the status quo it becomes "Afrocentric" as a way of claiming it is pseudo science, especially when it involves African prehistory and DNA. So it is always subjective as to what equates to "that kind" of Afrocentrism, because at the end of the day, even legit scholars like Diop are called Afrocentrists. And whenever someone brings up "that kind" of Afrocentrism it is suspect because usually no actual names of individual scholars or work they have put out is ever referenced. So it just becomes "anonymous Afrocentric boogeyman" as opposed to any serious scholarship. And it gets worse today because you have fewer serious scholars writing books like Diop and other wrote in the past which could be critiqued. So most people depend on anonymous social media persons to use as an argument for "that kind" of Afrocentrism , but social media is full of all kinds of people saying whatever they want about anything, which is not unique to African history or any other topic.
There are people who also name different scholars in critical posts. As the first one who is named in the third post in this thread. So some of them are actually named.
When it concerns the Internet and YouTube scholars and debaters, most of them are anonymous so it can be hard to name them. Sometimes one has to be content with linking to some of the stuff they put out if one wants to adress their claims.
But to be an African scholar does not mean that a researcher can not be serious or conduct valid research. There are researchers from all countries that contribute with valuable research. And in the future research will probably be even more international.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
quote:Originally posted by LoStranger:
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ^ does that include himself?
Exactly it's like a fat man complaining that everyone else eats too much....
Exactly lol. Surely archeotypery sees the hypocrisy but he will pretend not to since this chief x person is an african american who arch believes is "in his place" and says things that arch likes to hear african americans say
Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The issue is that any time an African scholar says something that disagrees with the status quo it becomes "Afrocentric" as a way of claiming it is pseudo science, especially when it involves African prehistory and DNA. So it is always subjective as to what equates to "that kind" of Afrocentrism, because at the end of the day, even legit scholars like Diop are called Afrocentrists. And whenever someone brings up "that kind" of Afrocentrism it is suspect because usually no actual names of individual scholars or work they have put out is ever referenced. So it just becomes "anonymous Afrocentric boogeyman" as opposed to any serious scholarship. And it gets worse today because you have fewer serious scholars writing books like Diop and other wrote in the past which could be critiqued. So most people depend on anonymous social media persons to use as an argument for "that kind" of Afrocentrism , but social media is full of all kinds of people saying whatever they want about anything, which is not unique to African history or any other topic.
There are people who also name different scholars in critical posts. As the first one who is named in the third post in this thread. So some of them are actually named.
When it concerns the Internet and YouTube scholars and debaters, most of them are anonymous so it can be hard to name them. Sometimes one has to be content with linking to some of the stuff they put out if one wants to adress their claims.
But to be an African scholar does not mean that a researcher can not be serious or conduct valid research. There are researchers from all countries that contribute with valuable research. And in the future research will probably be even more international.
Again, the point is that the term Afrocentrism came from specific African scholars and has a particular academic definition. And the whole point of it was to challenge European domination of African anthropology and archaeology. So of course those European institutions responded by labeling such scholarship as pseudo science at face value. It was never about the scholarship being necessarily invalid, as opposed to maintaining the status quo European domination of the discourse of African history, which was built around racial ideologies. And this is the reason that these people deliberately pick and choose those on social media who they can use to prop up this argument that Afrocentrism = pseudo science. So by and large, if Afrocentrism was pseudo science, it would never have been something these institutions cared about, which means the only reason they are concerned and put so much effort into distorting it, is because the core themes of all humans originating in Africa and the beginnings of math, science, architecture and civilization originating in Africa are true. And that is what the core of Afrocentrism is all about.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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Reminds me of Clyde's take that Dravidian is closely related to Mande as well as Ainu.
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